Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Hi Ali: Good question. Agree with this: If there is no pain %u2014 inotherwords, if the organization can't feel how their hard-to-use product is hurting them %u2014 then there is probably nothing you can do. - Jared Spool and this ... I've made myself blue in the face trying to convince both clients and coworkers (simultaneously, mind you) of the value of IxD-related activities in general. It nearly always fails until I am able to understand my clients' needs and then tailor my design approach directly to them. - Josh Evnin Both talk to an environment being receptive to the UX message. Or I call we call this organization ripeness. We talk to some of this here -- Selling UX - http://www.uxmatters.com/mt/archives/2008/10/selling-ux.php and here - http://www.slideshare.net/dszuc/selling-usability-in-organizations-presentation Quick tips: * Start with 1-2 engineers at a time (test your assumptions) * Don't try and sell the whole UCD process (it takes too long) and you will probably be pushing in jargon they may not have heard before. * Show how your UI/product improvements resulted in an improvement to business results (and share the joy with the team) Build from there ... rgds, Dan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Ali, As Scott said Think about what approaches fit the culture, attitude and environment you're in. You should be good at this, it's a kind of problem solving, which is what designers do. I have written on my blog http://blog.feralabs.com/2008/12/why-i-started-webnographer/ the attitudes of one programmer to Usability. Maybe this will help build an understanding. I would very much recommend not showing them Allan Cooper's The Inmates are running the asylum, it would be as effective as throwing a brick at them. As Jared Spool said :- Creating stereotypes by job description isn't any better than creating them by race or religion or sexual preference. One book that may help you is How to win friends and influence them. Build friends first. Don't go negative. Focus on the positives, and as many people have said above the shared vision. Tell them what you think works for the current product? Ask them what you can do for them. What do they think needs improving? Find out why do they program. For me it was coolness of having millions of people use the code that I was writing. If the product was not usable then I would not have had that ego boost. People naturally form themselves into tribes. East vs West, or Left vs Right, or Apple vs Windows. At the moment there are two tribes in your organisation you and the Engineers. Move the focus of the them to the competition. Look at how Apple does it with the other side being Windows. All of this takes time, but far less time, then if a Us vs Them battle starts. Good luck James 2009/1/28 Scott Berkun i...@scottberkun.com Ali wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything. My position does not allow me to say much yet as a Tech Writer/Project Manager assisting the engineers on usability issues I have had it! All the responses I've seen so far have been very supportive and kind, which is cool - but it also compels me to say the unpleasant (but critical) things that have gone unmentioned. You have to take some responsibility here. You picked the company. You picked the job. As engineering driven as it is, and as evil or stubborn the people might be, you still chose to go to work there. Some of the responsibility is yours, and the sooner you take some responsibility, instead of blaming others, the faster you will sort this out. If you were misled about the job, that's unfortunate, but now you know some new things to look out for in the next one. Many of the suggestions I've seen on this thread are familiar and fine, but take a design centric approach. Which in this case is all wrong. You are in an engineering environment and you appear to have little power. This means you need to make arguments in a way engineers will respond to, and you need to seek out sources of power to support your arguments. You are on their turf. This doesn't mean be a whuss, but it does mean BE A DESIGNER. Think about what approaches fit the culture, attitude and environment you're in. You should be good at this, it's a kind of problem solving, which is what designers do. If those approaches bore you or take too much time for your liking, then it's time to go elsewhere. But the culture you're in is the culture you're in. If you go to Iceland, and complain about how it's not Hawaii, don't expect much sympathy from the Icelandians, much less for them to help you make Iceland more like Hawaii. One of the worst things to do in this situation is to call a big presentation together where you more or less tell a room full of people how wrong they are, how bad what they've made is (ignoring completely that to them it's their pride and joy), and why things should be done how you want them to be. You will be oh so easy to ignore after this as your reputation as a frustrated/bitter designer will be sealed forever (Many many many designers have this reputation). If I've only been in a culture a month, It'd be very difficult to know how to talk to such a large group. I'd be shooting in the dark. It's much smarter to find your supporters are and start with them. This probably means whoever wrote your job description and hired you. Clearly they are interested in what they can do to make you more successful. Then look at all the programmers, or the managers - which one is least close-minded? Least resistant? How much of your view of things do they share? 50%? 75%? 5%? Even on the worst team in the world there has to be someone who sucks the least. Start there. Find the sweet spot for change where you have the most support and the greatest opportunity. Your supporters are locals in the culture and can advise on steps to take, get you a friendlier ear from other possible allies, and your planning begins. Only then would I consider approaching larger groups, advocating changes, etc. Keep in mind as a new person you have zero credibility. Especially
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Again, thank you for contributing to this topic. My kickoff went really well and I was able to convince the brain behind the project. (An engineer) User tests will be conducted and I might be able to do them much earlier than planned. (These people have already created much of the HW/SF products and hence a usability test at THIS stage is considered LATE) These people do not involve real users AT all. Its all made by engineers and tested by engineers. Some of these guys are proud of using Man Machine Interaction, which still isn't enough AT ALL. Usability, usability usability WHERE ARE THE INTERACTION DESIGNERS??? Its about money I've been told... Ali remember, most of our users will receive training so why use money on all these qualitative researchers?? If we do, we will have to fire the training personnel... JZ! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Michael Micheletti makes some astoundingly insightful points above. All very good and effective advice for the situation being discussed here. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
[Jared wrote: I have yet to meet anyone on the development or engineering side of the operation who doesn't understand that a usable design is better. However, not all designs need to be usable to be successful, and since making something usable is often an added expense, it's hard to justify.] I'd like to introduce to you a few people from our organization that think usability is unnecessary. The flipside is that there are many that are coming around just because of exposure. [Jared wrote: Even when it's clear that a more usable design will win in the marketplace (or whatever the organizational goals are), as Chauncey rightly pointed out, if the reward structure for the developers doesn't take that into account, no amount of selling will move in that direction.] The other way of UX exposure is to create a UX Group. We created a UX Group in our organization because we felt it was important to expose usability and design principles to everyone, not just the developers. They get involved in projects that will affect the organization, not just us. And some of the managers make it known to their developers that if they haven't gone to our group or core team for any feedback, then they're missing out on a big opportunity. The key thing here is that this wouldn't be possible at all without an Executive Champion. [Jared wrote: In my experience, unusable designs rarely exist due to team ignorance of the value of a great experience. There are often many other factors that the team is battling and making something more usable is a place where the battle is lost. Standing on a soapbox yelling to the gods that this is a crime against humanity rarely does anything other than cause one to lose their voice. ] Before me and some of my predecessors, there was no usability. And the organization's designs were horrid - or so I was told and IMO. I was surprised that anyone could use them at all. Soapboxes are of little use if you don't have people listening. Get people engaged in useful projects that anyone can contribute. I think that's the key for anyone to understand what UX/IxD etc. is all about. Hope this helps. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Ali wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything. My position does not allow me to say much yet as a Tech Writer/Project Manager assisting the engineers on usability issues I have had it! All the responses I've seen so far have been very supportive and kind, which is cool - but it also compels me to say the unpleasant (but critical) things that have gone unmentioned. You have to take some responsibility here. You picked the company. You picked the job. As engineering driven as it is, and as evil or stubborn the people might be, you still chose to go to work there. Some of the responsibility is yours, and the sooner you take some responsibility, instead of blaming others, the faster you will sort this out. If you were misled about the job, that's unfortunate, but now you know some new things to look out for in the next one. Many of the suggestions I've seen on this thread are familiar and fine, but take a design centric approach. Which in this case is all wrong. You are in an engineering environment and you appear to have little power. This means you need to make arguments in a way engineers will respond to, and you need to seek out sources of power to support your arguments. You are on their turf. This doesn't mean be a whuss, but it does mean BE A DESIGNER. Think about what approaches fit the culture, attitude and environment you're in. You should be good at this, it's a kind of problem solving, which is what designers do. If those approaches bore you or take too much time for your liking, then it's time to go elsewhere. But the culture you're in is the culture you're in. If you go to Iceland, and complain about how it's not Hawaii, don't expect much sympathy from the Icelandians, much less for them to help you make Iceland more like Hawaii. One of the worst things to do in this situation is to call a big presentation together where you more or less tell a room full of people how wrong they are, how bad what they've made is (ignoring completely that to them it's their pride and joy), and why things should be done how you want them to be. You will be oh so easy to ignore after this as your reputation as a frustrated/bitter designer will be sealed forever (Many many many designers have this reputation). If I've only been in a culture a month, It'd be very difficult to know how to talk to such a large group. I'd be shooting in the dark. It's much smarter to find your supporters are and start with them. This probably means whoever wrote your job description and hired you. Clearly they are interested in what they can do to make you more successful. Then look at all the programmers, or the managers - which one is least close-minded? Least resistant? How much of your view of things do they share? 50%? 75%? 5%? Even on the worst team in the world there has to be someone who sucks the least. Start there. Find the sweet spot for change where you have the most support and the greatest opportunity. Your supporters are locals in the culture and can advise on steps to take, get you a friendlier ear from other possible allies, and your planning begins. Only then would I consider approaching larger groups, advocating changes, etc. Keep in mind as a new person you have zero credibility. Especially if you are the first Designer they've ever worked with. Hell, many people are probably afraid of you. They fear you will want to take some of the fun parts of their jobs away (which in fact, is probably true). So until people hear you saying smart things, being of use in a daily sense (even if it's just finding bugs, giving good comments on spec reviews), and delivering on things you promise to do, you will have little credibility, and will have earned little trust. If you stay an untrusted outsider, it's impossible to do much of anything in an environment like yours. In fact I'd say goal #1 is to earn the trust and respect of the key people in your smallest circle of work. This might be of use as well: Designing in hostile territory. http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/nov2005/id20051116_109051.htm -Scott Scott Berkun www.scottberkun.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
When talking about what we care about, aren't we really selling? And the best selling involves using others to sell what we believe in? There are many, many environments that we all work in, but I'm going to generalize into two -- one that's UX focused, and the other than is not. By the time that someone that's a recognized UX expert walks in the door at a client, usually they are already UX focused, or know they need to be because nothing else has worked. You're recognized as a leader in the field, so they're willing to spend some money to listen to your approach. Usually, they are sold because they've read a book or a blog. Sometimes, like places I worked at, we're able to place some simple processes in place, and the process sells it self through higher profitability of the product. There are many, many environments where UX isn't the focus, and even if they have hired someone in that field, they don't know what to do with that person, or the developers aren't interested in UX because it gets in the way of them not being on board. I agree here it needs a team, but again, it's all dependent on the politics of the situation. Most of us haven't written books or blogs, so we don't have that part sold already. I would guess most of us have worked in situations like this, and as one UX friend of mine said, You know, sometimes you just document it, and hope someone pays attention. I guess sometimes we think the process supersedes the results, when all the client or company cares about is the results. But that's just my opinion, experience. Comments? Patrick ... Patrick, I respectfully disagree. Ali, if you do what Patrick suggests, you'll not only fail, but you'll have a miserable time doing so. Your job isn't to *sell* your teammates on anything. It's about teamwork. Find out what the objectives and long-term vision of the team is. Work from there. Jared Patrick email: p...@usabilitycounts.com | blog: http://www.usabilitycounts.com cell: (562) 508-1750 | office: (562) 612-3346 | skype: (562) 219-3348 Click here for the last UX books you'll ever need. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Patrick wrote: When talking about what we care about, aren't we really selling? And the best selling involves using others to sell what we believe in? There are many, many environments that we all work in, but I'm going to generalize into two -- one that's UX focused, and the other than is not. By the time that someone that's a recognized UX expert walks in the door at a client, usually they are already UX focused, or know they need to be because nothing else has worked. You're recognized as a leader in the field, so they're willing to spend some money to listen to your approach. Usually, they are sold because they've read a book or a blog. Sometimes, like places I worked at, we're able to place some simple processes in place, and the process sells it self through higher profitability of the product. There are many, many environments where UX isn't the focus, and even if they have hired someone in that field, they don't know what to do with that person, or the developers aren't interested in UX because it gets in the way of them not being on board. I agree here it needs a team, but again, it's all dependent on the politics of the situation. Most of us haven't written books or blogs, so we don't have that part sold already. I would guess most of us have worked in situations like this, and as one UX friend of mine said, You know, sometimes you just document it, and hope someone pays attention. I guess sometimes we think the process supersedes the results, when all the client or company cares about is the results. And we'd all like to believe everyone wants to be on a team, but that's not always the case. But that's just my opinion, experience. Comments? Patrick ... Patrick, I respectfully disagree. Ali, if you do what Patrick suggests, you'll not only fail, but you'll have a miserable time doing so. Your job isn't to *sell* your teammates on anything. It's about teamwork. Find out what the objectives and long-term vision of the team is. Work from there. Jared Patrick email: p...@usabilitycounts.com | blog: http://www.usabilitycounts.com cell: (562) 508-1750 | office: (562) 612-3346 | skype: (562) 219-3348 Click here for the last UX books you'll ever need. Patrick email: p...@usabilitycounts.com | blog: http://www.usabilitycounts.com cell: (562) 508-1750 | office: (562) 612-3346 | skype: (562) 219-3348 Click here for the last UX books you'll ever need. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Josh Evnin wrote: It didn't take much convincing that this approach would work, and when it succeeded, it bought me at least a little leverage within my organization to try other approaches with other clients. ...and that's selling. You identify a situation where you have an opening, and take it. Patrick email: p...@usabilitycounts.com | blog: http://www.usabilitycounts.com cell: (562) 508-1750 | office: (562) 612-3346 | skype: (562) 219-3348 Click here for the last UX books you'll ever need. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Interesting comments from all of you. Thank you. I have had a few conversations with the department managers, other co-workers and even prepared a powerpoint presentation for my first kickoff, (many of the attendants are engineers) wherein I will stress the importance of user Centered Design (OOBE, IX,UX, Usability etc) I have noticed that they all think that usability is enough... I'll change their views :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Hi Ali, Hope I'm not stepping in too late here. I've made something of a career of being the designer on the development team. Although I once was the developer on the design team which might even have been a bit stranger. Here are some approaches that have worked for me: - Volunteer to write the spec, of whatever it is being built. Do a great job. Lead the discussions. Incorporate wireframe sketches. The engineers may drift from what you sketched, but at least they have a starting point to consider. With time, you will become the person whom everyone looks to for initial specifications and design artifacts, sometimes even for technical internals code. This is because (warning generalization follows) Engineers love specification documents, but don't usually like to write them. - Become handy around the shop. You'll want to volunteer to help test code, to visit with customers, to create prototypes, to help with technical recruiting - to do whatever you can to make your engineering team successful. Another generalization: Engineers respect people who work hard to make the team a success. You want the respect of your team. When your team respects you, you will be listened to. - Be very patient. I try to plant the seed of an idea early, then help it grow quietly. I know the time is right when I hear engineers and business people saying it's time to do this thing, as if it was a new idea they just thought of. This is a wonderful moment, because you can smile and say that's a great idea, let's do this and all of a sudden you have allies in a strategic design project. I'm working on one of these now. It took more than a year to sprout. - Bear with me here a minute. There's a financial trading term I think is called a negative indicator. A funny application of this is there are some people who always pick stocks just before they fall (oh wait, that's all of us). Time Magazine covers are a negative indicator - by the time a company shows up there, it's at the peak. Sports Illustrated covers another. Madden football game covers also - the player on the cover will underwhelm the next season. I've heard of traders who kept an eye on negative indicator (people) as a sort of reality-check on market direction. Ok now back to our story. There will likely be one very senior engineer on your development team who is a negative indicator for design. You know, the let's just add another checkbox type. This guy (I haven't met the female version yet, although maybe she's out there) will be a very skillful coder with deep knowledge of your system and the respect of all of the engineers on the team. This is the hard part: you want to partner with this guy. You want to work with him as closely as you can. He will understand the system very deeply. You will understand design patterns and be able to make his system more usable and attractive. Together you will create far better applications than either of you could do on your own. - Create paper prototypes. Engineers immediately understand these. Bring your paper, colored pens, and scissors to prototype working sessions and everybody will be cutting out shapes like crazy to try different things. You can advance the design a great deal in an hour of collaborative work with a crude prototype. I hope these suggestions are helpful, have fun, Michael Micheletti On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:38 AM, ali naqvi a...@amroha.dk wrote: Interesting comments from all of you. Thank you. I have had a few conversations with the department managers, other co-workers and even prepared a powerpoint presentation for my first kickoff, (many of the attendants are engineers) wherein I will stress the importance of user Centered Design (OOBE, IX,UX, Usability etc) I have noticed that they all think that usability is enough... I'll change their views :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I just wanted to second what Michael said (especially his first suggestion about spec writing), and add a couple things. I too have made a career as the designer among engineers. Developers tend to not like having to work out the details of a UI layout. If it is a web app, provide them with the HTML and CSS. If you can't provide the code for the front end display, provide detailed specs that include colors, type sizes, dimensions, etc. In my experience, a developer would much rather be working out engineering problems then futzing with layout, and the easier you can make it for them, the more likely you'll be satisfied with the results. Don't be a loner. Just because you have a different job description and a different focus doesn't mean you should be a hermit. I'm good friends with a number of the developers in my firm. I eat lunch with them, joke with them, play World of Warcraft with them. They are your co-workers, after all. I've even been attending and participating in their continuing education lunches (e.g. studying for certifications, sharing new technologies). It was at one such lunch that I presented a presentation titled UI Design First Aid. Best, Jack Jack L. Moffett Interaction Designer inmedius 412.459.0310 x219 http://www.inmedius.com To design is much more than simply to assemble, to order, or even to edit; it is to add value and meaning, to illuminate, to simplify, to clarify, to modify, to dignify, to dramatize, to persuade, and perhaps even to amuse. - Paul Rand Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I think the key here is to step back to the highest level first before getting mired in specifics. Presumably whatever it is you are designing is designed for some purpose, and to meet either business goals or user goals. The business goals tend to be much better defined at companies, or one should hope so. As far as user goals, that's something that falls within our purview, and something that you can tease out, define, and agree on through research and conversation. And yeah, this is a process that involves some negotiation, and something you need to be flexible and build consensus around. Once you have those general goals, you can take it down to a specific level, i.e. maximizing conversion, reducing user abandonment, stickiness, engagement, what have you. By doing this you ally yourself with the business and marketing functions of your organization, which gives you more power to fight the purely engineering approach. These goals are also testable, and if your solution is indeed better, you can actually gather data to prove it down the road. The next step is to start advocating for your solutions by saying things like: well, we want to give emphasis to X because it will help us reach goal Y, and this is how we'll do that within this specific design. The arguments become less religious, and it is no longer about (excuse the vulgarity) a pissing contest, but about trying to find the best solution that meets a shared goal. -eva On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Russell Wilson russ.wil...@gmail.com wrote: So what are the criteria? That's what I'm after. (and don't say it depends) :-) It's easy to say everyone's opinion counts, there's more than one good solution, we should all work together, etc. And we do just that... But when it comes to deciding on a particular solution and moving forward, someone or some panel has to make a decision (depending on where your thinking is between a single vision/conceptual integrity versus design by committee). Assuming there are multiple solutions that are equally good, how do you decide on one? What are some examples of criteria used? In some cases we have tested multiple designs and had inconclusive results (1+ designs tested equally well). Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 6:49 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: So what are the criteria? That's what I'm after. (and don't say it depends) :-) It's easy to say everyone's opinion counts, there's more than one good solution, we should all work together, etc. And we do just that... But when it comes to deciding on a particular solution and moving forward, someone or some panel has to make a decision (depending on where your thinking is between a single vision/conceptual integrity versus design by committee). Assuming there are multiple solutions that are equally good, how do you decide on one? What are some examples of criteria used? In some cases we have tested multiple designs and had inconclusive results (1+ designs tested equally well). If they are truly equal, then it's a coin flip, since, being equal, it won't matter which one you pick. If they have different pros and cons, but at first glance it's hard to pick one that stands out, there are a variety of analysis tools to help a team decide on the best alternative: pugh charts, weighted matrices, and the ever-so-fun House of Quality are three of my favorites. The criteria that you'll use in the analysis have to be specific to the long- and short-term success criteria of the organization. There is no generic set of criteria that works for all designs. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Ali, It sounds to me like you want to build a collaborative environment where you have opinion is respected. So share your toys and invite them to play with you. If you want qualitative research make it happen somehow. If you don't have a budget, arrange for people as close to your target user as possible to run through some tasks with the product. Do this by using other people in the company or friends and family if you can -- and compensate them by buying them lunch. Invite people to observe the testing, and record the sessions for others to watch. (Kill 2 birds with one stone by asking the engineers to be the videographer to get them into the room with you). Nothing makes people believe in qualitative research like seeing someone work with their product and react to it. Something else that has worked well for me in the past when I needed to build respect and build a collaborative environment is to set up a cross-functional design/brainstorming meeting. Invite a cross functional set of people to attend a meeting where the objective is to come up with 3 different solutions. Make it a structured (but fun and creative ) meeting where everyone has an opportunity to contribute what they know at all stages. Organize the meeting around a series of topcis like: What do we know about the problem? What do we know about the users? How can we solve the solution? Aim for at least 3. What would each potential solution look like? (high level design ideas) What are the strengths and weaknesses for each propose solution? What could be done to fix the weaknesses in each proposal? At the end of the meeting offer to take the couple strongest ideas away and develop them further and then bring them back to the team to review. In doing something like that, you have the opportunity to participate and show that you have valuable contributions, but everyone else also gets a chance to be heard. I always find I come out of these meetings with great new ideas, and a few people in the organization more willing to include me and my thoughts in the future. A bonus to the cross-functional meeting -- I very seldom have to ever argue against an idea %u2013 someone else in the meeting does it for me. I can just support the best ideas on the table. %uF04A Heather Searl User Experience Consultant www.heathersearl.com . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I totally agree... involved them early. And... not just the engineers... get one or two people from every stakeholder's department, and then some, involved as early as possible, in as many stages as possible. By the time you go to launch, everyone has had a hand in the product and feels some level of ownership, making the next project even easier. Matt L. wrote: Unfortunately, there is a strong us-vs-them mentality among engineers. There's also a resistance to accept aesthetics as relevant to a product's success. Part of this is due to the misconception that because I can write UI code, I can also design it adequately. Engineers tend to assemble UIs sequentially--they see the process as adding one widget at a time until paths exist to each software/hardware feature. The concept of envisioning/visualizing the full, final product ahead of time is foreign to most. I get a lot of funny looks when I focus on pixel-perfect accuracy when designing UIs-- but folks are always impressed with the refinement of the final product. Engaging your engineering counterparts in the early stages of a design/redesign process may help: ** involve them in creating paper prototypes ** give constructive feedback for their work (not just this looks wrong/bad/confusing... you know why it's a poor choice, but they may not) ** cite real-world examples (web sites, software products, etc.) when explaining your design choices Good luck! Matt L. Software Engineer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. As a side note, on an abstraction layer for developers/engineers: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/DevelopmentAbstraction.html. -- Jens Meiert http://meiert.com/en/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I think it's time to let the engineers observe representative users with their product. When you've gotten to the point of frustration and feel like your opinion isn't respected, back it up with user data. Schedule a few informal usability tests and let the engineers watch users struggle. I've seen this work in a number of environments - it makes a huge difference in understanding that there is a problem when you see it for yourself. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi wrote: They all believe that designing for the end users only involve usability issues... Should I send them a copy of Allan Cooper's The Inmates are running the asylum? :) How about you send them a better design, prove it's better through whatever means you need to, and start acting like a designer. Good designers know that good design will prevail when presented. Good design always prevails because in the end, it's easier to build, easier to maintain, easier to use and maximizes ROI for the business. What does not prevail are people talking about good design, or posturing their degrees around as if a piece of paper will miraculously create good design. Have you created a new design, complete with new aesthetics and pixel- perfect mockups, new information design that is clear and succinct, simpler interactions or workflows, and built a prototype that makes all of this obvious beyond a shadow of a doubt? If not, then might I suggest you get to work and stop complaining about engineers not getting it. NOTE: Until designers do all of the above, engineers have every right to be suspicious of anything you claim will be better. There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Their opinion does matter. That you think it doesn't is the crux of your problem. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. and...@involutionstudios.com c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
And how do you objectively prove it's better? Short of testing alternatives you have a very subjective problem. Russ http://www.dexodesign.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:20 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk aherasimc...@involutionstudios.com wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi wrote: They all believe that designing for the end users only involve usability issues... Should I send them a copy of Allan Cooper's The Inmates are running the asylum? :) How about you send them a better design, prove it's better through whatever means you need to, and start acting like a designer. Good designers know that good design will prevail when presented. Good design always prevails because in the end, it's easier to build, easier to maintain, easier to use and maximizes ROI for the business. What does not prevail are people talking about good design, or posturing their degrees around as if a piece of paper will miraculously create good design. Have you created a new design, complete with new aesthetics and pixel-perfect mockups, new information design that is clear and succinct, simpler interactions or workflows, and built a prototype that makes all of this obvious beyond a shadow of a doubt? If not, then might I suggest you get to work and stop complaining about engineers not getting it. NOTE: Until designers do all of the above, engineers have every right to be suspicious of anything you claim will be better. There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Their opinion does matter. That you think it doesn't is the crux of your problem. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. and...@involutionstudios.com c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Get used to it. ;) It's the real world. Your job is to sell them on it. Sounds tough, but it's true. On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything ... Few of them have taken some HCI courses and THATS IT! There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Reply to this thread at ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Patrick email: p...@usabilitycounts.com | blog: http://www.usabilitycounts.com cell: (562) 508-1750 | office: (562) 612-3346 | skype: (562) 219-3348 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: And how do you objectively prove it's better? Short of testing alternatives you have a very subjective problem. Not true. Often the real problem is everyone sees the problem differently, so you're never really having the same conversation. If you can get everyone to share the vision of the problem, then you can have (more) objective discussions about how different solutions solve or don't solve the problem. Collaborative whiteboarding, user modeling, and task analysis are good ways to get everyone on the same page. -- Austin Govella User Experience Work: http://www.grafofini.com Blog: http://www.thinkingandmaking.com Book: http://www.blueprintsfortheweb.com aus...@grafofini.com 215-240-1265 Upcoming speaking engagements: 1. FEB 4: Redefining Search Design Using Mental Models Taxonomy Community of Practice presentation for the call series hosted by Earley and Associates: * http://www.earley.com/_February2009.asp 2. MAR 20-22: UX Health Check IA Summit presentation with Livia Labate (Principal IA, Comcast Interactive Media) in Memphis, TN: * http://iasummit.org/2009/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
And how do you objectively prove it's better? Short of testing alternatives you have a very subjective problem. Further, there is rarely if ever one perfect design solution, but many very good solutions possible; any and all of which work well enough within reason and to varying degrees. This makes it more important to define your ranges and criteria of a problem and measure against that. Objectively is relative then to how well you've defined the problem in the first place. Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: And how do you objectively prove it's better? Short of testing alternatives you have a very subjective problem. Further, there is rarely if ever one perfect design solution, but many very good solutions possible; any and all of which work well enough within reason and to varying degrees. This makes it more important to define your ranges and criteria of a problem and measure against that. Objectively is relative then to how well you've defined the problem in the first place. Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. Who cares? You're really trying to find a good solution (and in Ali's case, have a conversation about what makes some solutions better than others). If you have a criteria by which you and the team can decide if a solution is good enough or not, who cares if there's more than one? Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. 1. Better can be both subjective and provable. 2. If you want to pursue multiple design solutions, then do so. 3. Establish criteria for how you'll measure better (e.g. time, effort, satisfaction, error prevention) 4. Work through them to see which ones are better based on your criteria. 5. Test them with end users/consumers/customers to see which ones are better based on your criteria. It's entirely possible. We do it regularly. And to Jared's point, the fact is that it's really about which solution will do the trick. Someone can always one-up you, or you can one-up yourself. Good enough is often good enough. It's better to get something good enough out, then make iterative changes to improve it than it is to wait to put anything out until you've achieved nirvana or perfection—those two don't really exist in systems. Cheers! Todd Zaki Warfel President, Design Researcher Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully. -- Contact Info Voice: (215) 825-7423 Email: t...@messagefirst.com AIM:twar...@mac.com Blog: http://toddwarfel.com Twitter:zakiwarfel -- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:02 AM, Patrick wrote: Get used to it. ;) It's the real world. Your job is to sell them on it. Sounds tough, but it's true. On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything ... Few of them have taken some HCI courses and THATS IT! There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Patrick, I respectfully disagree. Ali, if you do what Patrick suggests, you'll not only fail, but you'll have a miserable time doing so. Your job isn't to *sell* your teammates on anything. It's about teamwork. Find out what the objectives and long-term vision of the team is. Work from there. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Jared said: Ali, if you do what Patrick suggests, you'll not only fail, but you'll have a miserable time doing so. Your job isn't to *sell* your teammates on anything. It's about teamwork. Find out what the objectives and long-term vision of the team is. Work from there. I've got to agree with Jared here. I've made myself blue in the face trying to convince both clients and coworkers (simultaneously, mind you) of the value of IxD-related activities in general. It nearly always fails until I am able to understand my clients' needs and then tailor my design approach directly to them. For example, I ranted and raved for a while that we needed to bootstrap all of our project efforts with a Contextual Inquiry approach so that we could get a glimpse of user needs as they exist on the factory floor rather than coming up with perceived problems out of thin air. At my organization, where user research is not the norm, this approach was met with deaf ears. It was not until I spoke with a client that already had many of their technical needs met, but acknowledged that they still weren't solving their customers' problems after many product releases that I realized that *this* was a great candidate for my preferred CI approach. It didn't take much convincing that this approach would work, and when it succeeded, it bought me at least a little leverage within my organization to try other approaches with other clients. So Ali, if I were to give any advice it would be this: instead of thinking about how you would change the whole process (or the engineers' mindsets) in your organization, pick a few smaller issues that you see, and then make it your goal to solve them in a way that works within the organization's context. But remember: you should provide value to your organization every step of the way. Ask for feedback regularly, especially from the engineers you work with. Be just as user centered in your approach to organizational change as you would be to your product's design. Celebrate your small wins, don't sweat the losses (but make it a point to learn from them), and keep a keen eye out for opportunities where your skills will be helpful and valued. Most of all, relax, and try to have fun. Merely being calm in the situation you are currently in will win you some credibility, and the value you provide will buy you a ton more. Josh On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:02 AM, Patrick wrote: Get used to it. ;) It's the real world. Your job is to sell them on it. Sounds tough, but it's true. On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything ... Few of them have taken some HCI courses and THATS IT! There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Patrick, I respectfully disagree. Ali, if you do what Patrick suggests, you'll not only fail, but you'll have a miserable time doing so. Your job isn't to *sell* your teammates on anything. It's about teamwork. Find out what the objectives and long-term vision of the team is. Work from there. Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- http://josh.ev9.org/weblog Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I agree with Jared's comment that we should not be demonizing developers and engaging in an us versus them battle. I spent a few years as a development manager and during my first week on the job when I reviewed my developers' performance goals, discovered that there was not a single goal about good design or usability - they were judged on good technical code, knowledge of new software technologies, how well they fixed bugs, and how well they kept to schedules. I changed the job descriptions and performance goals of my team and found that my developers became much more in tune with good design and the importance of sketching and rough prototypes and usability issues when the job performance had design and usability goals. If we demonize a group and use language that views that group as unchangeable, then we have little hope of ever collaborating well because personality traits are perceived by most people as less malleable than external factors like how people are measured (this is spelled out in much research in social psychology in the area of attribution theory). Chauncey On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Samantha LeVan tigerf...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Jared and Josh. There's no use arguing back and forth. Stop and take a deep breath and think about the other side. Rather than presenting a new idea as being better, ask the engineers about their ideas. What do they believe works best and why? Getting to their rationale might inspire an entirely new idea that was a collaborative effort, one that can be shared and embraced by the team instead of an idea from one side to the other. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 26, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Russell Wilson wrote: Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. That's not correct. It is very possible to prove any number of designs are BETTER than PREVIOUS DESIGNS as long as you know what it is that defines the problem. Using the definition of the problem allows you to measure it with existing versus proposed solutions. It's not about various quantities of solutions, nor is it about ownership of the solution in the end. But if some designer wants to prove theirs is the only solution, good luck and learn how to be a good salesman. If some designer wants to make their solution the final decision over any number of completely viable design solutions, then do what I did: Start your own design firm and pay the bills. (Like my Dad always said, as long as you live in my house, then you go by my rules. Don't like the rules? Go buy your own house.) Anyway, it is very possible to prove a design is better than an existing one. My original point by the way requires that the person who believes their solution is better has the onus put on on them to create a real life prototype, mockup or functional product that can be tested and measured to back up their assertions about their design solution. Trust me... executives and engineers never say no to good design, because in the end, it solves their problems and will make more money at the same time it solves customer problems. You put good design in front of someone's face, they will say yes. Not theoretical design where someone has to put faith in whatever thing some workflow diagram is supposed to represent will just magically work... but honest to goodness I can see the difference and experience the change of a prototype or complete set of a pixel perfect mockups that tell the whole story. That was the larger point. -- Andrei Herasimchuk Principal, Involution Studios innovating the digital world e. and...@involutionstudios.com c. +1 408 306 6422 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
So what are the criteria? That's what I'm after. (and don't say it depends) :-) It's easy to say everyone's opinion counts, there's more than one good solution, we should all work together, etc. And we do just that... But when it comes to deciding on a particular solution and moving forward, someone or some panel has to make a decision (depending on where your thinking is between a single vision/conceptual integrity versus design by committee). Assuming there are multiple solutions that are equally good, how do you decide on one? What are some examples of criteria used? In some cases we have tested multiple designs and had inconclusive results (1+ designs tested equally well). Best regards, Russ Russell Wilson Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. Who cares? You're really trying to find a good solution (and in Ali's case, have a conversation about what makes some solutions better than others). If you have a criteria by which you and the team can decide if a solution is good enough or not, who cares if there's more than one? Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Finally. That is the question. All the research, design concepts and theories can be blown into oblivion in one instance. I could tell you what I think. I could tell you what I've experienced. I could tell you it doesn't depend. But, I'll tell you a story instead. When I first moved to LA I was in a band with this guy. This guy's brother worked for a recording studio. He told me that his brother was part of recording some well known artist etc. One story was about Tom Petty. He said before Petty recorded at his bro's studio TP went to another studio and after his band had unloaded all of their equipment and they were plugged in and ready to take 1 TP lit up a cigarette. The studio owner told Petty to put it out, no smoking. Petty told everyone to pack it up we are not recording here left and went elsewhere. In my humblest respectful opinion Petty did 2 very outstanding things here. 1. He shielded his band from a non nurturing environment. 2. He did not support a system that did not support him. Sure you can speculate 'oh smokings bad', 'that guy could of recorded Tom's greatest album', 'we should all join hands and do the robot dance'. Assuming the best or worst won't fix anything. Ignoring the problem will only make it worse. Make a choice and make it a good one. On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Russell Wilson russ.wil...@gmail.comwrote: So what are the criteria? That's what I'm after. (and don't say it depends) :-) It's easy to say everyone's opinion counts, there's more than one good solution, we should all work together, etc. And we do just that... But when it comes to deciding on a particular solution and moving forward, someone or some panel has to make a decision (depending on where your thinking is between a single vision/conceptual integrity versus design by committee). Assuming there are multiple solutions that are equally good, how do you decide on one? What are some examples of criteria used? In some cases we have tested multiple designs and had inconclusive results (1+ designs tested equally well). Best regards, Russ Russell Wilson Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com Exactly my point. Given that there are 1+ equally viable design solutions, it may be impossible to prove that yours is better. Who cares? You're really trying to find a good solution (and in Ali's case, have a conversation about what makes some solutions better than others). If you have a criteria by which you and the team can decide if a solution is good enough or not, who cares if there's more than one? Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Time to work on your persuasion skills, patience, and what Peter Merholtz refers to IA (in this case, IxD) Judo. And, use Stephen Anderson's Eye-Candy is a Critical Business Requirement to build your case, http://www.slideshare.net/stephenpa/eye-candy-is-a-critical-business-requirement.http://www.slideshare.net/stephenpa/eye-candy-is-a-critical-business-requirement It's not they're engineers that makes them this way - feeling unswayed by arguments beyond their own opinion. This tends to be the case when one group dominates. They're not accustomed to being challenged or questioned, and they probably don't realize that you're trying to make an impact. In the early days, you're likely more a pest to them than one who is bringing valid arguments for product improvement. I've had similar experience is creative-dominated organizations and merchant-dominated organizations. Those groups matured long before the front-end was a substantial part of the work, so they were settled and stubborn. To me, it seemed like they didn't care at all. In fact, they just cared about things that were at first not visible to me. In order to become part of the team, I had to first get a glimpse of what was important to them. In some ways it's like going to a new high school and having to infiltrate a new clique. I've just joined a new, creative-dominated group and am experiencing the same challenge all over again. First, show them that you can work with them, on their terms. Your goals would be keeping up and still adding value while swallowing your pride. You've learned a lot in school, so you feel like you know how to fix their problems. But, they've been doing their stuff for a while too, and no one likes to have a newcomer who thinks they have all the answers. You have to pay your dues, earn your chops. Next, find partners, whether they're inside or outside the engineering group. Make a connection with those people, learn from their mistakes and successes so you can move faster and smarter. Sometimes friends can vouch for you when you're not there, but would want someone to support you. For instance, when project teams are being formed, or when there's a new problem to be solved. Then, work on something of your own that is a strong statement of your UX/IxD skills and is *not* a challenge to their way of doing things. For instance, maybe a ux-oriented process improvement for a problem that's been bothering the engineering team. In the merchant-oriented business, going from static wireframes to interactive prototypes showed them results faster so they could make decisions faster and with less ambiguity. That made me look valuable in a way that helped them. I hope this helps. The culture is significant determinant of the quality of the product. I consider it a major component of my job to to improve the culture I work in, just as much as I improve the quality of the products. Roughly quoting Hackos and Redish, usability is about improving the quality of the product...and improving the quality of the process by which products are made. -Jay On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi a...@amroha.dk wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything. My position does not allow me to say much yet as a Tech Writer/Project Manager assisting the engineers on usability issues I have had it! They all believe that designing for the end users only involve usability issues... Should I send them a copy of Allan Cooper's The Inmates are running the asylum? :) Few of them have taken some HCI courses and THATS IT! There is NO qualitative research and both hardware-/software engineers think that their own opinion about the products matter. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help -- Jay A. Morgan Director, UX at Gage in Minneapolis twitter.com/jayamorgan google talk: jayamorgan skype: jaytheia Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Ali, I sympathize. What Jay recommends is excellent advice for grappling with any overly strong and unreflective group, but there are more specific approaches that work best with engineers and similar personality types. Occasionally there are even advantages in having such a group. There are two issues with engineer-driven environments. - *Persuasion.* Building relationships and a business case is helpful. Focus on using data that appeals to the scientific part of their brains. Their logic and vanity will both appreciate that. I find any relevant neuroscience data very helpful, as well as analysis that incorporates different user types, including their type. So, have a smart engineer persona and what works for them (probably what they're recommending), and then explain the other types and needs, and how your approach meets them all. - *Development style. * More and more engineering-driven places are using Agile and Agile-esque approaches such as Scrum for development. This can make it challenging to meet big-picture needs such as UX IA. It is indeed possible, however. First, establish public best practices and what works tips, and where possible train all teams in the basics. Second, establish UX as part of an integration team, and let them track all the separate project streams in one place, to see overlap and conflict. Lastly - and this isn't necessary, it just helps me personally - remember that Agile Scrum are basically the creative process writ large, applied to technical development. The very act of working this way makes engineers and developers more accessible to alternative approaches - and makes the design people more immediately aware of dev needs, too. I said it could help at times, too. I worked at Texas Instruments for a while, and it's a very engineer-driven environment. However, the audience was just over 80% engineer as well. So we could turn to our own engineers as well as user engineers for research and testing, and happily design primarily *to* engineers, which is a rare joy in UX. The focus is clear and there's very little confusion as to what works and what doesn't, although there are a few differences with the rest of the world. (For example, for something like training informaiton, engineers prefer one long page that's well-anchored internally, rather than multiple pages to keep most content above the fold.) So, those are my comments on dealing with the engineering mind set. Hope they're useful to you! bests, Alex O'Neal ux manager/social network analyst -- The best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The next best time is now. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Ask them how many engineers use their software. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
*Development style. * More and more engineering-driven places are using Agile and Agile-esque approaches such as Scrum for development. This can make it challenging to meet big-picture needs such as UX IA. It is indeed possible, however. I'd love to learn more about this; maybe I'll start another thread? The Dev team at my company is Agile/Scrum all the way and we're trying, as a Design Team, to insert ourself much earlier in the process. It's tough to get ahead of it! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
In work environments like this, I have found that forcing our discipline into the process is the least effective... the you MUST work with us mantra will fall on deaf ears. It's often relationship building, one person at a time. Get one or two engineers who have seen the positive impact your perspective has on the end product become your advocates. Also no one likes to feel like a dumb ass. Everyone wants to feel like they know what they're doing. So consider how you can approach the challenge as less a Debbie (or Donnie) Downer [ie. here are all the things that are wrong with what you've made], and more how you can make them feel like the perspective you brought made their work better. May seem easier said than done, but I think most of the battle is getting someone to feel like you're a needed resource because they couldn't possibly do the work as well without you. janna On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi a...@amroha.dk wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I think that is great advice. I like it. But their are some enormous A-holes that engineer. I think every department should have one person from another department on that team as a liaison. The last four or so gigs I've had have been on engineering teams and it is not my background. What brought me to it is that as a designer you hit road blocks when someone says 'You can't', 'Don't', etc... It is often b*ll sh*t and the engineers are operating behind a curtain like the wizard of OZ. With the last PM I worked with I said 'if you can explain it we can make it happen.' I don't think a good engineer says it cannot be done. I've also worked with stellar engineers and I always make it a point to ask what is a good deliverable for you (why) and the good ones have sent me exactly what they want and why they want it that way. The others riddle off reasons why they are of a superior breed and the like, they usually couldn't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag... On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Janna Hicks DeVylder ja...@devylder.comwrote: In work environments like this, I have found that forcing our discipline into the process is the least effective... the you MUST work with us mantra will fall on deaf ears. It's often relationship building, one person at a time. Get one or two engineers who have seen the positive impact your perspective has on the end product become your advocates. Also no one likes to feel like a dumb ass. Everyone wants to feel like they know what they're doing. So consider how you can approach the challenge as less a Debbie (or Donnie) Downer [ie. here are all the things that are wrong with what you've made], and more how you can make them feel like the perspective you brought made their work better. May seem easier said than done, but I think most of the battle is getting someone to feel like you're a needed resource because they couldn't possibly do the work as well without you. janna On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Ali Amrohvi a...@amroha.dk wrote: As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to be working in an environment where engineers run everything. Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Hi Janna, Also no one likes to feel like a dumb ass. Everyone wants to feel like they know what they're doing. So consider how you can approach the challenge as less a Debbie (or Donnie) Downer [ie. here are all the things that are wrong with what you've made], and more how you can make them feel like the perspective you brought made their work better. May seem easier said than done, but I think most of the battle is getting someone to feel like you're a needed resource because they couldn't possibly do the work as well without you. Thanks for your inspiration. Yes, designers job is judged by what they can build instead of insist by words. Thanks, Jarod -- http://designforuse.blogspot.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
On Jan 25, 2009, at 7:41 PM, gavin burke|FAW wrote: You have to understand also the engineers perspective. From their perspective they are the most important part of the process, without them there would be no product just fresh air. [...] My advice is to wait around, cut your teeth abit more and when your in a more senior position use what you are going through now as a way of improving things for everyone, user, engineer and yourself. On 26 Jan 2009, at 01:10, Angel Marquez wrote: I think that is great advice. I like it. But their are some enormous A-holes that engineer. Wow. This Us vs. Them shit is really a bit disturbing. There are workplaces where people collaborate well. There are workplaces where they don't. It has nothing to do with job titles, schooling, or base training. While there are engineers that are assholes, there are also designers that are assholes. And managers. And customer service people. And just about every other job. Creating stereotypes by job description isn't any better than creating them by race or religion or sexual preference. Personally, I'd like to see this conversation move to something constructive without the bigoted tone. To answer the crux of Ali's question about what to do: I always recommend that you follow the money. If there are usability problems with a product, that means that there are people who are frustrated. In my experience, whenever someone is frustrated, that frustration shows itself on the organization's bottom line. Either customers are moving to competitor's products, or they are filling up the support lines, or the developers are wasting time redoing designs because they got it wrong the first time. If you look for how the frustration is impacting the bottom line, you'll often find someone in charge of making that problem go away. That person is likely to be a huge champion for any UX work that can fix their problem. Tell them that you know how to fix their problem in cost-effective manner and you'll get their attention. If there is no pain -- inotherwords, if the organization can't feel how their hard-to-use product is hurting them -- then there is probably nothing you can do. (Remember the first law of consulting: You can't stop people from sticking beans up their nose.) In this case, if you find this frustrating, you should consider looking for an organization that does get it. There are more and more of those every day and it'll be a better fit for your personality. I wrote about this in more detail here: http://is.gd/heqq Hope that helps, Jared Jared M. Spool User Interface Engineering 510 Turnpike St., Suite 102, North Andover, MA 01845 e: jsp...@uie.com p: +1 978 327 5561 http://uie.com Blog: http://uie.com/brainsparks Twitter: jmspool UIE Web App Summit, 4/19-4/22: http://webappsummit.com Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
Dude(s),I've worked for number 1 in the nation marketing and advertising agencies. Start ups Freelance In a variety of industries. If you are asking your engineers to change something like moving a button your process needs to be revised. Ideal is you slowly iterate and shave off the input as the design goes down the pipe. Check done, pass, check, done pass, oh we have a request, sorry to late next time, check done, done, done. Yea right! That never happens. The more process you involve and the more people you involve the more entropy creeps into the system and wackiness occurs. Trying to make people understand is a waste of time. If they are able to understand than they already do and they are using it as leverage for whatever motivates them. I just had this discussion with a friend that wanted to offer me some unsolicited advice on some lame design I did and I was all hey give me a break. I would love to provide everyone with some custom work of art; but, c'mon! Trying to maneuver someone into a well thought out plan is like trying to get my cats in their carrier when they know I'm taking em to the vet! It's near impossible with trickery, chasing, them while closing and locking doors to corner them. I can't even shake their treats to get them from hiding when they know it's time. I also was all you have different types of customers. Some customers 1.) you are going to stretch your own canvas, make your own brushes, mix your own oil paints, do some studies, sketch, paint, hand craft a complimentary frame and voila 2.) or you are going to get a lot of pre made canvases, throw down some acrylics, whip it out, put into one of those nice packaged frames and be done with it. 3.) or you are going to have some ready to go out the door packaged done pieces they can throw on the wall of their hotel lobby and collect the ambience fee. It is our job when to know when to offer what to whom. I also just had a convo with a client that is having photo shoot. As a future reference measure I wanted to point out to the client how the photo shoot goes. I asked, why did you pic the photographer and how much is it costing you? She said she is allowing me to take as many poses as I want, whatever. But I know it is 1 day and 1 day only and once that lady prints and shows her what she has to choose from the show is over! She's not going to go on photo shoot part 2 unless you pay for part 2. That is the same way any design process should roll... right? am I wrong. Am I missing something? On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 7:41 PM, gavin burke|FAW gavin.bu...@futureaudioworkshop.com wrote: You have to understand also the engineers perspective. From their perspective they are the most important part of the process, without them there would be no product just fresh air. So they feel they own it in a way. Underneath the interface is a whole different world of complexity. If an interface designer comes up to their desk while they are working and tells them I think the ok button needs to be more over to the left so the user doesn't get confused, its like a voice from another plant. Add on top of this the pressure of scrum or a difficult project that is make or break on a technical level and you won't get a look in. With good product management this should never happen but the way things are going with shorter and shorter development cycles and its associated pressures this type of situation is inevitable. My advice is to wait around, cut your teeth abit more and when your in a more senior position use what you are going through now as a way of improving things for everyone, user, engineer and yourself. On 26 Jan 2009, at 01:10, Angel Marquez wrote: I think that is great advice. I like it. But their are some enormous A-holes that engineer. I think every department should have one person from another department on that team as a liaison. The last four or so gigs I've had have been on engineering teams and it is not my background. What brought me to it is that as a designer you hit road blocks when someone says 'You can't', 'Don't', etc... It is often b*ll sh*t and the engineers are operating behind a curtain like the wizard of OZ. With the last PM I worked with I said 'if you can explain it we can make it happen.' I don't think a good engineer says it cannot be done. I've also worked with stellar engineers and I always make it a point to ask what is a good deliverable for you (why) and the good ones have sent me exactly what they want and why they want it that way. The others riddle off reasons why they are of a superior breed and the like, they usually couldn't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag... On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Janna Hicks DeVylder ja...@devylder.com wrote: In work environments like this, I have found that forcing our discipline into the process is the least effective... the you MUST work with us mantra will fall on deaf ears. As a User Centered
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What to do in an environment run by engineers??
I have found that in a situation like this the best defense you have is to clarify your job description with your manager or CTO. By having your responsibilities defined in writing you hold the pass key to throw your weight around in the fighting ring especially when it comes to issues that directly coincide with your expertise. Once you have the authority make sure that when a project is planned out, anything you feel that should be necessary is planned into the Functional Requirements Documentation, such as; Qualitative research, as you mentioned. You'll find that once it is in writing you'll have a foot in the door. It then comes down to relying on your research and reason to sway the team in one direction or another. Hope that helps. Good Luck! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
