Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2014-12-09 Thread Bronx

...sorry, LMS 7.9 running under Windows 7 Home Premium.

Cheers Bronx



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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2014-12-09 Thread Bronx

Hi all

Just for information:

I'm a user with a large database consisting of 400k tracks. I was stuck
on 7.5.6 due to slow performance of SQLite. I just updated to 7.9 and I
can say WOW! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

Scanning times (all with SSD, Intel Core Duo 2.5 ghz, 3 gb RAM): 
7.5.6 delete and rebuild : about 12 hours / later versions with SQlite:
24+ hours (high memory setting)
7.5.6 new and changed tracks: about 1 hour / later versions with SQlite:
3 hours


7.9: delete and rebuild : about 3 1/1 hours (max. memory setting), a
quarter of 7.5.6 with mysql
7.9: new an changed tracks: about 1/2 hour, half of 7.5.6 with mysql

Interface is snappy and full text search is incredible, with under 1
second! 

I'm very happy. Thank you Michael!



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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-10 Thread erland

erland;648454 Wrote: 
 
 Maybe it could be the CPU ? 
 My virtual machine only have access to one of the CPU cores and I'm
 guessing you have a multi core CPU which probably is an advantage with
 MySQL both since it runs in a separate process and also because it's
 probably more optimized for usage with a multi core CPU than SQLite.
 
It's not the CPU at least not with the High MySQL configuration
provided with SBS. I just tried it on the Core2Duo laptop (still on
Linux and 7.6.1 r33004 with MySQL 5.0.21) and I'm seeing the same thing
as in the single core virtual environment, MySQL is is a lot slower than
SQLite.

It's only using one of the cores, both with SQLite and MySQL, so number
of cores doesn't seem to have any effect, at least not as long as you
don't use the system for other things while scanning.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-09 Thread erland

JJZolx;648151 Wrote: 
 No, I did not test with a 65,000 track library. The library had 260,000
 tracks. The results I posted above showed the elapsed time at different
 points in the scan.
 
 I see results similar to yours when the library is small.
 
Do you use any customized settings in your MySQL instance besides those
in the High Database Memory Config ?
If so, could you share them ?

Which MySQL version are you using ?
I'm using MySQL 5.0.21.

I just tried with a 250 000 track library (with 7.6.1 r33004) and
SQLite took about 4 hours for a full scan in my environment, MySQL is
in progress but about 6 hours after it has started it has still just
reached 100 000 out of 250 000 tracks, so it's clearly slower than
SQLite also in a large library in my setup.

Maybe it's just Linux vs Windows but it feels a bit strange that we get
such opposite results if it's just the operating system that differs.

Maybe it could be the CPU ? 
My virtual machine only have access to one of the CPU cores and I'm
guessing you have a multi core CPU which probably is an advantage with
MySQL both since it runs in a separate process and also because it's
probably more optimized for usage with a multi core CPU than SQLite.

If our MySQL configuration is the same, maybe I'll try to run the 250
000 library directly on the laptop with a Core2Duo P8400 CPU to see if
I see the same thing in a non virtual environment with a dual core
CPU.

Besides Linux I have also have a Windows Vista installation on the
laptop so I could try how it looks in both Ubuntu and Vista on the same
hardware but I'm not sure that's worth anything as I think Windows Vista
is generally considered to be a lot slower than both XP and Windows 7
which it's probably more likely that people using Windows are using.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-08 Thread erland

I've done some test on my Ubuntu box and compared SQLite with MySQL and
my results are a bit different than JJZolx. 

I've cleared the file system cache before each test and I've executed
each test case twice to ensure I get the same performance. All the
tests started with an empty Cache directory and I started to server and
let it do a full rescan. The tests has been run in a virtual environment
but since I executed them twice I feel that they are repeatable and due
to this should be fairly accurate.

The library I used was the generated 5 track test library I've
posted about earlier in the beta forum. It contains very small FLAC
files which tags has been generated from a discogs database dump. All
music files were stored on a local drive. Statistics from library is:

Total Tracks: 49,808
Total Albums: 4,313
Total Artists: 7,495
Total Genres: 13

The tests were executed on 7.6.1 r33004 (which contains a new SQLite
version but still haven't incorporated the latest WAL related changes
Andy has done)

Anyway, the results are as follows (Discovering files + Scanning new
files):

MYSQL (HIGH DATABASE MEMORY SETTING)
* Discovering files: 00:00:33
* Scanning new files: 00:34:26

MYSQL (NORMAL DATABASE MEMORY SETTING)
* Discovering files: 00:00:34
* Scanning new files: 02:23:09

SQLITE (HIGH DATABASE MEMORY SETTING)
* Discovering files: 00:00:30
* Scanning new files: 00:10:51

SQLITE (NORMAL DATABASE MEMORY SETTING)
* Discovering files: 00:00:30
* Scanning new files: 00:16:28

As you can see, my results are very different from the similar results
JJZolx saw with 65 000 tracks. In all my tests SQLite is a lot faster
than MySQL which is completely opposite to what JJZolx got earlier in
his tests on Windows.

Another thing that's clear is that the Database Memory Config in SBS
Settings/Advanced/Performance makes a big difference, especially on
MySQL.

A quick analysis indicates that the difference could be:
- Linux vs Windows
- SQLite version (I think I used a newer version than JJZolx)
- MySQL version (I used the same as in 7.5, not sure what JJZolx uses)
- Tagging difference (my library is tagged differently than JJZolx)
- FLAC size difference (my FLAC files are a bit smaller than JJZolx)

I plan to run a few more tests to compare with different library sizes
to see if I see the same issues where it slows down with a larger
library as JJZolx saw in his tests. Will get back to more information
about this as soon as I've executed the tests.

Also, the artwork precaching phase does work in my Linux setup with
MySQL in the above tests but I didn't include it in these test results
as I wanted the results too be comparable with those made by JJZolx.
The time of the pre-caching phase seems to vary a lot between different
test runs, not sure exactly why, but it varies between 2-6 minutes in
time in my tests with exactly same configuration, the variation happens
both with SQLite and MySQL so it doesn't seem to be database engine
related.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-08 Thread JJZolx

erland;648148 Wrote: 
 As you can see, my results are very different from the similar results
 JJZolx saw with 65 000 tracks. In all my tests SQLite is a lot faster
 than MySQL which is completely opposite to what JJZolx got earlier in
 his tests on Windows.

No, I did not test with a 65,000 track library. The library had 260,000
tracks. The results I posted above showed the elapsed time at different
points in the scan.

I see results similar to yours when the library is small.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-08 Thread Phil Meyer
A quick analysis indicates that the difference could be:
- Linux vs Windows
- SQLite version (I think I used a newer version than JJZolx)
- MySQL version (I used the same as in 7.5, not sure what JJZolx uses)
- Tagging difference (my library is tagged differently than JJZolx)
- FLAC size difference (my FLAC files are a bit smaller than JJZolx)

For 7.5.x, I run my own instance of MySQL.  I optimised the settings a bit, 
which seemed to make quite a difference compared to the built-in MySQL instance 
settings.  I think Jim has a similar setup.

How did you change the SQLite version?  I thought this was built-in to SBS?
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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-08 Thread erland

Philip Meyer;648153 Wrote: 
 A quick analysis indicates that the difference could be:
 - Linux vs Windows
 - SQLite version (I think I used a newer version than JJZolx)
 - MySQL version (I used the same as in 7.5, not sure what JJZolx
 uses)
 - Tagging difference (my library is tagged differently than JJZolx)
 - FLAC size difference (my FLAC files are a bit smaller than JJZolx)
 
 For 7.5.x, I run my own instance of MySQL.  I optimised the settings a
 bit, which seemed to make quite a difference compared to the built-in
 MySQL instance settings.  I think Jim has a similar setup.
 
I used the High setting in Database Memory Setting parameter in SBS
Settings/Advanced/Performance, but maybe you have done even more
optimization ?

I used the MySQL version bundled with 7.5.6, I think it's 5.0.21 if I
remember correctly.

Philip Meyer;648153 Wrote: 
 
 How did you change the SQLite version?  I thought this was built-in to
 SBS?
 
It is, Andy changed it in 7.6.1 r33004


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread Phil Meyer
Does anyone know if an analyze tables is done after inserting each 5
tracks (or different count) 
Every major database needs this if there are bulk inserts and reads
happening at the same time (which I expect the scanner to does?)

One suggestion during new schema discussions, was to have two phases - 1st 
phase to read all tags for each song into a songs table, and 2nd phase to then 
process that content.

If that were the case, the scanner could delete/disable all indexes whilst bulk 
inserting songs during first scan phase, and then create indexes at the end, as 
it wouldn't need to read any content back until then.

Then work out distinct albums with compilation flags, genres, years, etc by 
querying the song tags table.


I'm not sure how the scanner works now, but assume it needs to read content 
back out of the DB when deciding how to process each file scanned.  As it looks 
like there aren't any tidy-up phases any more, it must be running queries or 
reading content back out to determine if adding a new song to an album, whether 
the album should become a compilation, etc.

If that is the case, the scanner is going to become increasingly inefficient as 
the number of songs increases.
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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread erland

Philip Meyer;647712 Wrote: 
 
 I'm not sure how the scanner works now, but assume it needs to read
 content back out of the DB when deciding how to process each file
 scanned.  As it looks like there aren't any tidy-up phases any more, it
 must be running queries or reading content back out to determine if
 adding a new song to an album, whether the album should become a
 compilation, etc.
 
As far as I can see from the code it does some reading, but to know for
sure one would have to enable logging on the database.

Philip Meyer;647712 Wrote: 
 
 If that is the case, the scanner is going to become increasingly
 inefficient as the number of songs increases.
 
I have a generated library with 50 000 very small FLAC files and I can
scan that within 10-15 minutes.

I also did some test with a generated library with same size as my
normal FLAC library with 3500 tracks and the result were:
- Real library (91 GB): full rescan 92 seconds
- flactruncate.pl library (31 MB): full rescan 32 seconds
- My random generated flac library (15 MB): full rescan 25 seconds

So the scanning time is greatly affected by the file size. If the FLAC
file size results in a linear performance loss related to library size,
it would mean that a 50 000 FLAC library would take about 25-40 minutes
in my setup.

I'm not sure if JJZolx is using a generated library with full size FLAC
files or if it's a library with small FLAC files.

One thing that should be mentioned is that my generated library doesn't
have any album covers, so if the performance is somehow related to
artwork handling that won't be seen in my tests, at least not until
I've added album covers to the test library.

If there is an interest, I'll try to run some more tests in my
environment with different library sizes. However, I can't run
realistic tests of scanning performance because of limited disc space
to store full size FLAC files, but I can run tests to compare
SQLite/MySQL with small FLAC files or to compare browsing performance
which should be independent of FLAC file size.

The only issue is that I only have a virtual environment, so it's not
going to be 100% accurate and comparable with a real environment.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread arztde

I like to point to an exact comparison of the MySQL and SQLite in the
German Forums. Maybee MrFloppy can give some comments in English here.

After Compare the 2 database the result is clear for the SQLite. 

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89118


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread JJZolx

Here are the results of the first test with a 260,000 file library. The
Flac files are all 10 seconds of silence, then tagged exactly as my
real Flac library. What I did to generate the library was to duplicate
the albums in my  32.7k file library multiple times, changing the album
and folder name each time by appending a number 01, 02, etc. All of the
tagging is identical otherwise. Covers were also copied to the
library's folders.

These times were from the initial scans launched by starting up the
server with an empty cache folder and (in the case of MySQL) an empty
database. Both scans probably benefited from system caching, since I
ran them soon after generating the library itself. I ran the MySQL scan
first, so the SQLite scan, if anything, would have benefited more from
caching.

Instead of giving total scan time, I'll list the time it took for the
'Discovering Files' pass and the 'Scanning new files' pass at 1/4, 1/2
and all the way through the library. This is mostly because the MySQL
scan must be aborted during the precaching of artwork, so a total time
can't be had, but it also shows how both slow down as the library
database grows, but SQLite it much more affected.


Code:


  MySQL
  
  Discovering files   1:59
  Scanning new @ 65k files5:40
  Scanning new @ 130k files  12:17
  Scanning new @ 260k files  26:12
  
  SQLite
  
  Discovering files   1:40
  Scanning new @ 65k files9:08
  Scanning new @ 130k files  26:49
  Scanning new @ 260k files1:12:17
  



Second run, this time running full scans from the Basic Settings page
in the web ui. Similar results.


Code:


  MySQL
  
  Scanning new @ 260k files  27:11
  
  SQLite
  
  Scanning new @ 260k files1:15:41
  



I should note that the above results do not jive with what I see when
scanning my 32.7k file library, where SQLite is faster.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread erland

JJZolx;647828 Wrote: 
 
 These times were from the initial scans launched by starting up the
 server with an empty cache folder and (in the case of MySQL) an empty
 database. Both scans probably benefited from system caching, since I
 ran them soon after generating the library itself. I ran the MySQL scan
 first, so the SQLite scan, if anything, would have benefited more from
 caching.
 
Would it be easy for you to run the one of the tests also with 7.5.6 ?
Reason being that it would be a bit interesting to know how 7.5.6 with
MySQL compares with 7.6.1 with SQLite.

If it's easy to repeat the tests, it would also be interesting to see
how much difference the Database Memory Config parameter in SBS
Settings/Advanced/Performance makes.

I think I'll try to run the 50k and 100k test libraries I published
earlier in my setup to see if I get similar result as you do.

Finally, are your tests on Windows, Linux or OSX ? I'm guessing it's
Windows ?


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread Philip Meyer

JJZolx;647828 Wrote: 
 Here are the results of the first test with a 260,000 file library.

I've plotted those figures on a graph.

Interesting - it shows that SQLite isn't linear - performance gets
slightly worse as the library size increases, whereas MySQL is very
close to linear.

Obviously, this is a small sample size ;-)

This does seem to match my experience - 40,000 songs, MySQL and SQLite
scan times about the same.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread Phil Meyer
Is it possible to time how long it takes to browse the library using SQLite and 
MySQL engines, or is it not possible to get a scan to complete to a satifactory 
level with MySQL DB?  i.e. if artwork was turned off, for example?

Phil
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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-07 Thread kappclark

Is it possible to split the library up ?? It may be convenient to keep
that many tracks in one folder, but why not split them up ?

This may not be possible (I have nevr tried it, but then again, I only
have a 65GB library!)


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread Phil Meyer
I worry about SQLite. Does anyone have experience with such large
databases with SQLite? In the beta forum I’ve read somewhere that with
very large databases  SQLite may run unexpectedly slow and possibly
even slower than MySQL? Thank you for your answers.

I worried about the move to SQLite too.  Not so much scanning time; I had heard 
initial reports that in general browsing may be slower for large libraries.

For my library (~4 tracks - titchy compared to yours!), 7.6.x is only 
marginally quicker at scanning (about 5 mins), but it's less reliable at the 
moment.

But so far, it feels like 7.6.x is a bit faster for browsing, which I am much 
more interested in than scan time.

It may not be specifically the transition from MySQL to SQLite that has been 
the deciding factor in performance gains, but rather a combination of other 
changes in the code.  i.e. refactoring code, optimising the number of queries 
made, better file scanning, less scan phases to tidy up DB after files have 
been scanned.

In my case, I had optimised by own MySQL instance, so it was already faster 
than the SBS built-in MySQL instance default settings.

But it would be interesting to hear how performance scales over DB size - 
whether effect on performance is linear or exponential as the number of tracks 
increases.

Please post your findings when you give it a try.
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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread JJZolx

I'm generating a very large test library right now and will post the
results after it's been scanned under both SQLite and MySQL. Maybe
sometime tomorrow or Monday.

It won't be possible to compare the overall scan times of SQLite/7.6 to
MySQL/7.6, since a clear  rescan with MySQL in 7.6 hangs during the
precaching of artwork. It's possible to have the artwork precached
afterward, however, by running a new  changed scan.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread JJZolx

Ok, the new library has been generated: 1,000,000 tracks (Why mess
around, right?)

I'm scanning it now with a 7.6.1 server running SQLite. I'm not
certain, but already I may be seeing something. Discovery of the 1M
files took just 9:28. Scanning the first 25k tracks took about 10
minutes. Now, at 50k tracks, the time for the scanning new files pass
is over 42 minutes. Much slower per track than for my 33k track
library, which takes less than 12 minutes total to scan.

If it keeps degrading like this as the database grows larger, it's
going to take a _very_ long time to scan the whole library. Maybe
longer than I have the patience for.

It will be interesting to see how well SBS with MySQL handles scanning
the same library. I may also have to scale back the test to something
like 250k tracks.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread bluegaspode

Does anyone know if an analyze tables is done after inserting each 5
tracks (or different count) 
Every major database needs this if there are bulk inserts and reads
happening at the same time (which I expect the scanner to does?)


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread erland

bluegaspode;647691 Wrote: 
 Does anyone know if an analyze tables is done after inserting each 5
 tracks (or different count) 
 Every major database needs this if there are bulk inserts and reads
 happening at the same time (which I expect the scanner to does?)
 
As far as I can see it runs ANALYZE(SQLite) or OPTIMIZE TABLE(MySQL) at
the end of a full rescan and after every 100 tracks in a new/changed
scan.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread JJZolx

JJZolx;647688 Wrote: 
 If it keeps degrading like this as the database grows larger, it's going
 to take a _very_ long time to scan the whole library. Maybe longer than
 I have the patience for.

Well, that just plain wasn't going to happen. It would have taken
weeks.

Trying again with a 260k track library. I'll run the MySQL scan first
this time.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread erland

JJZolx;647701 Wrote: 
 Well, that just plain wasn't going to happen. It would have taken
 weeks.
 
 Trying again with a 260k track library. I'll run the MySQL scan first
 this time.
 
Just out of interest, do you have the Database Memory Config set to
Normal or High ?

With a library of this size, it's probably recommended to set it to
High.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-06 Thread JJZolx

erland;647703 Wrote: 
 Just out of interest, do you have the Database Memory Config set to
 Normal or High ?
 
 With a library of this size, it's probably recommended to set it to
 High.

Yes, it's set to High.


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[slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-05 Thread Bronx

Hi all

I've been a user of the Squeezebox for 8 years now, I’m a silent reader
of the forum. I have all models except the Slimp and Squeezebox 1 in
operation. My database is very large and includes over 300,000 tracks.
It runs stable and ok on a dedicated dual Pentium D with 3.0 GHz and 1
Giga memory .
I am always cautious with updates. I am running 7.5.4, use the
scanner.exe from 7.5.2 due to crashes and I'll only update in a few
weeks when 7.6.x goes stable.

I worry about SQLite. Does anyone have experience with such large
databases with SQLite? In the beta forum I’ve read somewhere that with
very large databases  SQLite may run unexpectedly slow and possibly
even slower than MySQL? Thank you for your answers.

Sincerely
Daniel


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-05 Thread erland

Bronx;647414 Wrote: 
 Hi all
 
 I've been a user of the Squeezebox for 8 years now, I’m a silent reader
 of the forum. I have all models except the Slimp and Squeezebox 1 in
 operation. My database is very large and includes over 300,000 tracks.
 It runs stable and ok on a dedicated dual Pentium D with 3.0 GHz and 1
 Giga memory .
 I am always cautious with updates. I am running 7.5.4, use the
 scanner.exe from 7.5.2 due to crashes and I'll only update in a few
 weeks when 7.6.x goes stable.
 l
The scanner crashes are probably those that have been fixed in 7.5.6
nightly.

Bronx;647414 Wrote: 
 
 I worry about SQLite. Does anyone have experience with such large
 databases with SQLite? In the beta forum I’ve read somewhere that with
 very large databases  SQLite may run unexpectedly slow and possibly
 even slower than MySQL? Thank you for your answers.
 
Nobody has actually been able to verify it's slower with real testing
as far as I know, except from the issue some people currently have with
the 7.6 scanner the 7.6 release seems to be generally faster than 7.5.
So I wouldn't worry to much about this, SQLite is a lot better today
than it was five years ago.


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-05 Thread slate

pallfreeman got 200k
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89205

For me the 7.6.x fullscan times are 4 times faster than 7.5.x.

If you are cautious then wait for 7.6.1 to be released.

Would you have problems if you tried 7.6.1 today?! you might:
- if you use cue sheets
- use unc paths
- your tags are a mess
- have plenty of playlists; some of which are not updated
- 

anyway when you do try pleas get back here and give some information
about your library, hardware and scan times before and after


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-05 Thread Bronx

Wow, Erland, Slate thanx for the quick response. I'll surely will report
back when I dare to use 7.6.x in some days.
Daniel


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Re: [slim] Performance of SQLite and large databases

2011-08-05 Thread Wirrunna

Bronx, add another Gb of RAM, it's very cheap. Then set the the new
advanced performance option in 7.6.x to use extra memory.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88904page=3 shows
scanning performance of one of my boxes, a mini-itx with a low power
dual core AMD X2 235E @ 2.7Ghz, 4Gb RAM and the library on Samsung
5400RPM Eco-Green HD204 2Tb drives, the system on a 500Gb WD Blue 2 1/2
drive, Win XP.


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