Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Hello, apologies for coming to this discussion late, but I've had a similar problem - and a solution (at least for me). I have an iMac and a very large music collection, held in iTunes (multiple libraries) and many ALAC files. I run SBS on a ReadyNAS and the transcoding involved in playing ALAC was beginning to cause stutters etc, so I decided to re-rip most of my ALAC to FLAC. As I'm playing my music via SBS (Duet) I rarely use iTunes as a player (apart from previewing etc.) but I do like its database functions - I can see what music I have and find it quicker in iTunes than via my Duet control (or SBS web interface) - and I like iTunes' tagging (though I also use Media Rage). The obvious problem in converting my ALAC to FLAC was iTunes - and then I found Fluke: http://blowintopieces.com/blog/2008/05/15/fluke-play-flacs-in-itunes/ The latest beta installed fine in Snow Leopard and it works (for me) a treat. My workflow, for FLAC files, is: rip via Max, apply REPLAYGAIN via metaflac (command line .. but it's easy), tag via Jaikoz (it's a bit clunky but works well), import to iTunes via Fluke (select all files and File Open With Fluke). It imports quickly, and my FLAC files are visible, playable and taggable in iTunes. I may have to correct a couple of missing tags and Fluke doesn't handle artwork - but I can add artwork via Fluke (visible on my Duet control) and if I want artwork in iTunes I use iTunes' Get Album Artwork (it works in 90% of cases). This may not work for everyone .. but it does for me. -- spiffin spiffin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21517 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
spiffin;505958 Wrote: ... My workflow, for FLAC files, is: rip via Max, apply REPLAYGAIN via metaflac (command line .. but it's easy), tag via Jaikoz (it's a bit clunky but works well), import to iTunes via Fluke (select all files and File Open With Fluke). It imports quickly, and my FLAC files are visible, playable and taggable in iTunes. I may have to correct a couple of missing tags and Fluke doesn't handle artwork - but I can add artwork via Jaikoz (visible on my Duet control) and if I want artwork in iTunes I use iTunes' Get Album Artwork (it works in 90% of cases). This may not work for everyone .. but it does for me. Thanks spiffin. I've been using TwistedFLAC ( MacFuse) to give similar results with the added benefit of being able to export the ghosted file onto your iPod. Here's a link to an old post I began (FLAC on a Mac with iTunes - CAN DO!) found at: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47878 -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
OK, and understood. Chocolate is also very good for you. -- whitman whitman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9053 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I found an old copy of Whamb. Simple, clean, but no longer supported and not awfully stable on my Intel Mac 10.6. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Amarok -- should be familiar to linux users. There is a OSX 10.5 build, but no luck on a 10.6 yet. This would probably end up as my pick of choice to this point, having used to to a good deal of happiness on Ubuntu and older Fedora builds. Vox. Vox is billed as The Lghtweight Music App for Mac OSX and it's pretty good, clean yet full featured if you open additional windows. Does what I want plus add features for effects (time, pitch, reverb, flanger, echo, etc.) and it looks like it can export playlists, although I can't get the function to work. +---+ |Filename: full_features.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9037| +---+ -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Apologies, kphinney, I didn't mean to annoy you. I must have failed to explain myself. Let me try to put it more simply. I didn't mean you hadn't had problems with iTunes. It's clear you have, and I'm sorry you've suffered. I wish you joy in your quest to find another program that does what you want. I meant that in post #29, you go on about iTunes as a self-promoting product etc, and that my solution to such worries about Apple's intentions is simply to ignore them. Use iTunes or don't use iTunes, but there's no need to get involved with buying stuff and all that. That's what I meant about not getting involved. Posting and reading posts will continue to occupy me here, because there's such a great community of helpful people about when I get stuck with my Squeezeboxes. -- whitman whitman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9053 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
No worries. I now understand. Perhaps I need more fiber in my diet. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I don't know whether others have had the same experience, but I've also found that the database that Max uses (MusicBrainz, I think it is) is simply dreadful for classical and early music. I usually re-tag most of the music I rip to some extent, but it's very rare indeed to find an album that needs complete re-tagging, let alone one without any info at all, in iTunes/Gracenote. By contrast, I found that Max more often than not (or at least it seems that way) gives me either a complete blank or info that's worse than useless. I very much wanted to use it, but had to give up on it really quite rapidly. I've now just started using dbpoweramp (under Parallels) to get the benefit of accurate ripping to .aiff, then imported to iTunes under OS X 10.6.2 and converted a copy to ALAC for my principal iPod library - a very easy process almost as easy, in fact, as ripping to iTunes in the first place. One can even use Amadeus Pro to do batch conversions/imports all at once. On 8 Jan 2010, at 02:01, kphinney wrote: ezkcdude;504016 Wrote: What's wrong with Max? That's what I use. Sorry I modified the post to include the features that others have asked for: Play music Save and export playlists Rip a CD Neither ability is available with Max, but as mentioned the developer (sbooth.org) has the additional programs Play and Rip to fill these gaps. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I must say I'm still in the 'nothing much wrong with iTunes' camp. It works. It's reliable. The interface is intuitive and friendly. What's not to like? When kphinney goes on about Apple using iTunes as a money-grabbing tool, I'm mystified. So ... ignore that. I use iTunes all the time, and I don't think I've ever bought one thing with it. Because that stuff never comes up. Just use the program. I like Frank Sinatra. I never think about the mafia. And on the subject of Mac recording programs, as we seem to be list-compiling here, I use and like Wiretap Studio. -- whitman whitman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9053 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I'm sure I can quote my own 10+ posts in this thread and others where I've said the same as you. I could also look up a half dozen others where I not only defend the use of iTune but also point out great new add-ons and helper programs that allow it to become more useful to the audiophile community. Instead, I will only remind us that not everyone shares my opinion or yours. I'm at a point where the system resources, time, and helper programs I have to devote to iTunes make it worse than useless. Worse because, as mentioned in other threads, iTunes does not maintain the integrity of the files in your library; it changes the tags and bytes themselves without prompting. Again, I've been a proponent of iTunes for years and I am currently still using it -- to add files to my iPod (at least for today - I've found some great alternatives). But it's not coming near my main library. Thanks for the recording program. I was hoping to keep the list to Players, Rippers, and Encoders, but we can add a column. It'll be a big list -- there seem to be a LOT of recording programs for the Mac. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
whitman;504165 Wrote: ...When kphinney goes on about Apple using iTunes as a money-grabbing tool, I'm mystified. ... Sorry, I'd like to address this directly. Or rather, I'll let Apple address it. Please take a look at the new features list and you will see that almost 50% of the new iTunes features are based on selling Apps, renting movies, and buying low quality music and audiobooks. http://www.apple.com/itunes/features/ -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
That was my point - I'm not denying that's how Apple see it, but that's no reason for us to get involved with that. It does not impinge on using iTunes. -- whitman whitman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9053 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
whitman;504252 Wrote: That was my point - I'm not denying that's how Apple see it, but that's no reason for us to get involved with that. It does not impinge on using iTunes. If you don't want to be involved you don't have to post or read the posts. iTunes does not work for me any longer by way of corrupting my files and mangling the tags used by SServer. Therefore using iTunes is not an option and I'm researching alternatives wit the help of the Squeezebox community, of whom a portion use Macs and are having iTunes issues. Is there a particular facet of the posts in this thread that upset you, or are you not understanding that because you haven't experienced headache inducing problems caused by iTunes (yet) that many other are and do on a regular basis? Telling me that I'm not having issues with iTunes is akin to the band playing as the Titanic went down. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Disn't go all the way through the list, but I gues i've been lucky, I haven't had any problems running SBS on a mac. -- Peter Stockwell _ Peter Peter Stockwell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29039 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Peter Stockwell;503846 Wrote: Disn't go all the way through the list, but I gues i've been lucky, I haven't had any problems running SBS on a mac. It's not all bad; rarely does anyone write a post entitled FYI: I've never had an issue and love [insert product name]. iTunes worked for me for quite some time. I've posted about how iTunes + TwistedFlac = FLAC on the Mac along with WAVs on your iPod without keeping multiple copies or using extra drive space, as well as getting the most out of iTune with Max and xACT. But as my library grows and I use my Mac for listening less and less, and Apple doesn't seem to show any interest in accepting the Audiophile standard of FLAC, it has become all to cumbersome to continue using iTunes. In the mean time iTunes has become a self promoting Apple product the likes of which have never been seen before. Little devotion has been paid to improving your music nor features that benefit the actual listening of music. Instead Apple devleopment has added new Apple iTunes Music Store features, iPod games, applications, and ringtones, the ability to watch movies and TV programs, a dynamic visualizer (Great if listening thru a optical and mental haze of bong smoke), and sound checking to alter your music in ways never intended. iTunes is the standard for PC and Mac, I have no doubt. But what I'd like to see is listed in easier posts; a simple music player and organizer for the Mac. There are some good alternatives noted above. Songbird, VLC, Play, and others will let me listen and, to a small degree, organize the content I want without having to convert. But most of all, look at Apple's webpage devoted to iTunes. Beginning 1/2 way down the page you will find their self-serving promo: Buy, Buy, Buy. Nearly half of the features in iTunes are devoted to buying music, renting and purchasing videos, the App Store, and building your own library of purchased audiobooks. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
DaveWr;502058 Wrote: I am doing the same thing - using XLD for ripping on the server. It is a universal binary, works very well (supports accurate RIP ) and has basic tag editing. The creator keeps it very up to date, responsive to bugs etc. You can automate XLD to launch with CD insert, rip and then quit. I still use Jaikoz from a Macbook to finalize edits to tags, artwork etc. Dave Hey Dave - thanks for the reminder on Jaikoz. I gave it a quick run thru and re-familiarized myself with the features in the demo. I was about to pull the trigger and buy it when I noted a price discrepancy between VersionTracker ($15USD) and the developer site (£15 or $24.04). I wrote into their support and was told: From: supp...@jthink.net ...Jaikoz has never been $15 , it always had the price quoted in £15, this must be an error on VersionTracker... -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Hi Yes I paid the £15. Compared with iPeng poor value, but compared to my Lightroom editor. I had the problem of no decent tagger for large quantities, complete with configurable bulk folder / naming handling. I thought about running XP and MP3TAG, but just increasing complexity. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I love Lightroom 2, but that's way off-topic. I've had some time to use Play (another creation by sbooth.org, the creator of Max and Rip) and I think it shows promise. However, it is not in the same class as Songbird, which has more and different functionality. That's not to say it's better. It has a lot of extra's that I don't need in a music player and management program. A browser is one feature I can do without in an music program; I already have Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Flock and that's more than enough. What I'd really like is for some time to find and try every Mac music program there is out there. Finding them is the problem, so if anyone can send me links I'd appreciate it. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
What the heck. Why don't we make a comprehensive list of all Mac music programs out there including rippers, taggers, and players? Max (encoder) Rip (encoder, CD ripper) Play (player) Audion (old player, ripper) Jaikoz (tagger) VLC (player, playlists?) iTunes (stock) Cog (player) xACT (encoder, ripper) Neutrino (DJ mixer, player) Songbird (iTunes alternative) WMP (player) Real Player (player) QuickTime (stock) FineTunes (needs a closer look, player?) EverPlay (featureless player) iMusic Valet (an iPod like player) MP3Rage (PhD or bottle of wine required) Feel free to tack on what you find and I'll try them all. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Great idea - it would help people. If you record or process music - Audacity. Ripper - XLD Measuring room acoustics / loudspeakers - Fuzzmeasure I'll have a think tomorrow Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;501868 Wrote: Okay so at the most primal what are my/our wants: 1) FLAC 2) Mac PPC compatible 3) Edit tags 4) Import (via CD or download'd file) 5) Add artwork (less necessary) 6) FLAC !!! (It sounds a lot like iTunes minus FLAC support, but there are a host of things I don't want: a system resource hog, a bloated program, something that dials home to the Apple iTunes store when it thinks I want to buy something, tries to determine the audio volume on all my tracks - whether the option is selected or not, wants to manage my internet audio content, which wants to import and manage my video content, and most importantly ** can't do FLAC natively **.) What's wrong with Max? That's what I use. -- ezkcdude There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't. SHINYMETAL '*Site*' (http://www.ezdiyaudio.com)| '*RSS*' (http://www2.kumc.edu/students/ezamir/rss/ezdiyaudio.xml) |'*Forum*' (http://ezdiyaudio.informe.com) ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
ezkcdude;504016 Wrote: What's wrong with Max? That's what I use. Sorry I modified the post to include the features that others have asked for: Play music Save and export playlists Rip a CD Neither ability is available with Max, but as mentioned the developer (sbooth.org) has the additional programs Play and Rip to fill these gaps. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
MP3Rage (PhD or bottle of wine required) Hehe... I recently started using its bigger brother MediaRage. And indeed... the UI is... ahmm... not very intuitive at best. -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;501834 Wrote: I want a simple front end to import, add art work, and manage tags. Has anyone ran across anything they like? I've used both Cog (feature lacking) and Play (from the makers of Max) but am still open to something new. Appart from the FLAC issue, what is wrong with iTunes for you ? I find importing, adding art work and tagging very simple with iTunes. -- Peter Stockwell _ Peter Peter Stockwell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29039 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
DaveWr;502377 Wrote: Playlist creation to me is as per KMRs post above, the ability to select a set of songs, maybe related to subsets of artist, genre, album etc. or maybe at random. ... I may look at Songbird. Don't flame, but I have a Linn DS on my system for the main HiFi playback. (IMHO better investment than transporter at this time) The Linn approach for Macs, (well those not using Squeezebox Server / SkweezyDS) is Songbird, which gets rather mixed reviews. ... Dave Okay, we're on the same pag as far as Playlists. I really don't use them but maybe because that's because I've never had a good method and haven't been hooked. You won't get any flame from me Dave. I really enjoy the TP, but it moved to my cabin after I bought the Majik DS. Peter Stockwell;502502 Wrote: Appart from the FLAC issue, what is wrong with iTunes for you ? I find importing, adding art work and tagging very simple with iTunes. Simple, yes. Reliable, no. My own problems are with incorrect tagging or missing tags altogether when iTunes is used to edit/add and how it corrects volume whether the option is selected or not, but here are some other posts from just the last month: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28340 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73422 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73432 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73280 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71944 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71868 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68035 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71748 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71693 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72128 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71867 http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72386 -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;501834 Wrote: Oh - I really like Songbird, but the Mac being used as a server is PPC not Intel so I can't use that. In the same vein, since that Mac is basically only a server now I really don't need a feature rich front end anymore. Just something to manage tags and import. If the computer in question is only used as a server, then why the need for software to run on that computer? You must be using another laptop or desktop. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
JJZolx;501986 Wrote: If the computer in question is only used as a server, then why the need for software to run on that computer? You must be using another laptop or desktop. True, I am using an Intel MacBook Pro to rip, convert, tag then upload the finished product. But I also have an extensive library already on the server from years gone by. These files require some manipulation and I spend a lot of time VNCing to the server's screen to locate and repair the files to get them working correctly with SB Server. Problems include lost art bad tags. For example: SB Server is currently listing all of the Encomium: A Tribute To Led Zeppelin (1995, Atlantic Records. Highly recommended.) as 12 separate CDs. I'll need to edit the tags on each to reflect the different artist are on one album. Likewise, it would be nice to drop a new CD into the server's tray and have it rip, query the CDDB, add tags, and place the files into the music folder without getting my laptop involved. Using the laptop, Songbird, and VNC isn't killing me; I've been doing it this way for years. But it is a less elegant solution than I'd like. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;502055 Wrote: True, I am using an Intel MacBook Pro to rip, convert, tag then upload the finished product. But I also have an extensive library already on the server from years gone by. These files require some manipulation and I spend a lot of time VNCing to the server's screen to locate and repair the files to get them working correctly with SB Server. Why can't that be done across the network? I've edited as many as 20,000 files using Mp3tag on my desktop PC, with the files residing on my server. Likewise, it would be nice to drop a new CD into the server's tray and have it rip, query the CDDB, add tags, and place the files into the music folder without getting my laptop involved. That could be a much taller order than just finding software to rip CDs and tag files. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I am doing the same thing - using XLD for ripping on the server. It is a universal binary, works very well (supports accurate RIP ) and has basic tag editing. The creator keeps it very up to date, responsive to bugs etc. You can automate XLD to launch with CD insert, rip and then quit. I still use Jaikoz from a Macbook to finalize edits to tags, artwork etc. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
JJZolx;502057 Wrote: Why can't that be done across the network? I've edited as many as 20,000 files using Mp3tag on my desktop PC, with the files residing on my server It's possible, but again less elegant than I'd like. Mp3tag is Windows only and I've tried the demo version of Jaikoz (as Dave mentions below) to do just this. I'll need to revisit Jaikoz but I gave up on it due to the cost at the time. Other Mac options are xACT which works a portion of the time (although output is WAV or AIFF only), and Tag by sbooth which works a fair amount of the time (latest release is v0.4.1 from 2006). DaveWr;502058 Wrote: I am doing the same thing - using XLD for ripping on the server. It is a universal binary, works very well (supports accurate RIP ) and has basic tag editing. The creator keeps it very up to date, responsive to bugs etc. You can automate XLD to launch with CD insert, rip and then quit. I still use Jaikoz from a Macbook to finalize edits to tags, artwork etc. Dave Looks like we are in the same boat. I find that Max works better than XLD and with a lot less typing, but sometimes you end up with files like what I mention above. It doesn't do compilation CDs very well. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;502066 Wrote: I find that Max works better than XLD and with a lot less typing, but sometimes you end up with files like what I mention above. I need to re-examine Max, although I don't understand your typing comment - I just have the preferences set to auto tag, then rip to the music folder structure automatically. Jaikoz has improved reliability in the last couple of months, although it is not perfect, It does scale well. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;502066 Wrote: Why can't that be done across the network? I've edited as many as 20,000 files using Mp3tag on my desktop PC, with the files residing on my server It's possible, but again less elegant than I'd like. Not as the automated ripping solution that you're talking about, but for editing tags it's 100 times more elegant than VNCing into the server itself to run software remotely. If you like Songbird, and it's available for your Intel Mac, why don't you use it across the network? -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;502066 Wrote: Looks like we are in the same boat. I find that Max works better than XLD and with a lot less typing, but sometimes you end up with files like what I mention above. It doesn't do compilation CDs very well. It would be foolish not to double-check and correct the tagging of every album you rip, particularly those being ripped by some automated system. The tagging is only as good as the database from which the software pulls its tags, and they _all_ have errors and omissions. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
The real issue with Squeeze stuff and large libraries seems to be the whole playlist creation. Any good mac ideas? Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
JJZolx;502070 Wrote: Not as the automated ripping solution that you're talking about, but for editing tags it's 100 times more elegant than VNCing into the server itself to run software remotely. If you like Songbird, and it's available for your Intel Mac, why don't you use it across the network? I agree, it's much better than VNCing, but except for Jaikoz which I admit I haven't used enough there is no good Mac alternative to Mp3tag. The problem I've run into with Songbird for this use is the same I stumbled with on iTunes: running the program on one computer while storing on a server may give file sharing permission issues. You may have everything all set and working nicely one day, then you update your system, run maintenance, or accidentally start iTunes while not connected to the server and -- whoops -- without knowing it you've reset permissions that'll mess you up next time. Songbird may not be as bad as iTunes in this respect, but it does have one catch to it: if I choose to use it to remote manage the server I cannot use it on my laptop. Only one library. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
DaveWr;502072 Wrote: The real issue with Squeeze stuff and large libraries seems to be the whole playlist creation. Any good mac ideas? Dave Dave, can you define Playlist Creation for me? I may have an idea, but we may be on the wrong page. I'm thinking more along the lines of Library Management as my need and that playlist creation refers to a subset of songs which may be unrelated other than you want them under a particular heading for listening convenience. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
My problem with playlist creation is that I like to build relatively small playlists (50-100 songs), based on nothing more than these are the songs I want to listen to (in a random order) today. My music library isn't enormous (2000 songs or so), so doing this on a drag-n-drop interface is quite useful. I used to use iTunes, and still do for my lossy iPod library, but I have a separate FLAC library I use for my Squeezeboxen, and need to create playlists for that. That said, I just tried out Songbird with the Playlist Exporter plugin, and it looks like it will do what I want it to do. Doesn't solve the OP's issue, though, because it's not a universal binary... -- kmr kmr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10664 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;502077 Wrote: Dave, can you define Playlist Creation for me? I may have an idea, but we may be on the wrong page. I'm thinking more along the lines of Library Management as my need and that playlist creation refers to a subset of songs which may be unrelated other than you want them under a particular heading for listening convenience. Playlist creation to me is as per KMRs post above, the ability to select a set of songs, maybe related to subsets of artist, genre, album etc. or maybe at random. For a while I used the SlimFX skin for SqueezeCenter (Adobe Flash application). It was a drag and drop interface similar to old iTunes. It still exists but since it used CLI, I doubt it is fully compatible with V7.x.x. It was very quick to browse and select. The Squeeze web interface is very clunky for this IMHO. I tend to create random playlists using the IR Remote or iPeng. I may look at Songbird. Don't flame, but I have a Linn DS on my system for the main HiFi playback. (IMHO better investment than transporter at this time) The Linn approach for Macs (well those not using Squeezebox Server / SkweezyDS) is Songbird, which gets rather mixed reviews. -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Chander;184528 Wrote: Just wait until MAcOSX Leopard, in a month or 2, because it will probably handle the FLAC format natively ! Hard to imagine, but it's been three years and two OSs since we guessed in that post that Apple would include FLAC support. They haven't. I'm aware that you can install codex for QT which allow FLAC support in iTunes, but I'd rather replace iTunes instead. I'm more frustrated today at iTunes than I've ever been. I want a simple front end to import, add art work, and manage tags. Has anyone ran across anything they like? I've used both Cog (feature lacking) and Play (from the makers of Max) but am still open to something ne aw. Oh - I really like Songbird, but the Mac being used as a server is PPC not Intel so I can't use that. In the same vein, since that Mac is basically only a server now I really don't need a feature rich front end anymore. Just something to manage tags and import. Thoughts? -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Not sure if it can be made to run on Mac, but it runs on *nix and windoze... http://prokyon3.sourceforge.net/ -- audiomuze SIGNS OF THE TIMES: No doubt they're also putting their energies into developing ever-more clever Apps like the deeply impressive spiffy-neato-keen Facebook interface, which everybody knows no world-class music system should be without. ...the Facebook stuff (app.. ha ha ha) is just plain stupid. Whichever Logitech manager was responsable for that should be taken outside and shot. audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
audiomuze;501838 Wrote: Not sure if it can be made to run on Mac, but it runs on *nix and windoze... http://prokyon3.sourceforge.net/ Looks perfect, but no Mac support. I'm beginning to think that I need to upgrade (either to an Intel Mac or back to Fedora). You'd think with all the design/film/creative geek crowd on Macs there would be a good music management app. Don't get me wrong -- I appreciate their hardware and support. This Mac has only been off for maybe 20-30 hours in 6 years and that was to move it from apartment to apartment to new home. And a maybe 20 minutes to give it RAM and HD upgrades. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;501842 Wrote: You'd think with all the design/film/creative geek crowd on Macs there would be a good music management app. This has always puzzled me as well. Most people think of MACs as the best for audio/video/media but there seem to be no _true_ contenders for replacing the following programs running natively on the MAC: 1. dbPowerAmp 2. EAC 3. foobar2000 4. mp3tag -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
I tried Songbird out a couple of weeks ago but could not figure out how to export playlists to an M3U; that's a deal killer for me. Play from sbooth.org has the same issue. For ripping and tagging, I gave up on Mac apps and now run dbpoweramp in a Windows VM. I tried Max from sbooth.org, but its tagging wasn't very good. Maybe the new Rip application under development there will be better. My big problem right now is creating playlists for mysb. If I could only export playlists from Songbird... -- kmr kmr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10664 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
garym;501849 Wrote: This has always puzzled me as well. Most people think of MACs as the best for audio/video/media but there seem to be no _true_ contenders for replacing the following programs running natively on the MAC: 1. dbPowerAmp 2. EAC 3. foobar2000 4. mp3tag True, as long as you don't care to use FLAC and don't mind iTunes. Most are happy with ALAC and the functionality of iTunes. I'm not a fan of it, but it does have pretty close to the same functions as the above named programs. In fact, many years ago I had a G3 BW Mac and a scavenged 8 bay SCSI CD tower that I picked up at an MIT swap-meet. All I needed to do was plug it in to the wall and the BW's SCSI port and I was able to drop 8 CDs in and rip them in ALAC with only the need to drop in another cd when one was ejected!! That was a fun day! -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney;501854 Wrote: True, as long as you don't care to use FLAC and don't mind iTunes. Most are happy with ALAC and the functionality of iTunes. I'm not a fan of it, but it does have pretty close to the same functions as the above named programs. In fact, many years ago I had a G3 BW Mac and a scavenged 8 bay SCSI CD tower that I picked up at an MIT swap-meet. All I needed to do was plug it in to the wall and the BW's SCSI port and I was able to drop 8 CDs in and rip them in ALAC with only the need to drop in another cd when one was ejected!! That was a fun day! Yep, I use itunes for synching my ipods/iphones and like it just fine as a music management tool in many ways. Easy to search, etc. (if only the web interface to SbS was half as easy to use in terms of showing libraries, sorting, creating smart playlists, etc Yes, I use dynamic playlists, custom browse, etc. etc., but none of this is as simple as the basic itunes model). Unfortunately, itunes doesn't do secure rips and/or have AccurateRip access. And I much prefer FLAC files for use on all my SqueezeBoxes. I have no need for lossless on my IPOD, and the SB environment seems to work much better with FLAC files as compared with Apple Lossless. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
Okay so at the most primal what are my/our wants: 1) FLAC 2) Mac PPC compatible 3) Edit tags 4) Import (via CD or download'd file) 5) Add artwork (less necessary) 6) FLAC !!! (It sounds a lot like iTunes minus FLAC support, but there are a host of things I don't want: a system resource hog, a bloated program, something that dials home to the Apple iTunes store when it thinks I want to buy something, tries to determine the audio volume on all my tracks - whether the option is selected or not, wants to manage my internet audio content, which wants to import and manage my video content, and most importantly ** can't do FLAC natively **.) -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kphinney's list is good EXCEPT it left out: playlist creation tool!!! -- kmr kmr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10664 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kmr;501914 Wrote: kphinney's list is good EXCEPT it left out: playlist creation tool!!! Try VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html) which comes in Intel and PPC flavours and is quite handy for playlist making as well as being a potential replacement for iTunes as a player and general library organiser. Doesn't do album art though. davep -- davep davep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=61 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
kmr;501853 Wrote: I tried Songbird out a couple of weeks ago but could not figure out how to export playlists to an M3U; that's a deal killer for me. Not sure about the Mac version of Songbird, but on the Windows version (and I think the Linux version, though I have to confirm), it's simply: File Export playlist(s) [select playlists to export] THEN click the Preferences button in the Export Playlist(s) dialog, and on Default playlist format to export your playlists as click the drop-down menu, choose M3U, then click OK. then click Export playlist(s). Or maybe the Mac version doesn't have the M3U option? -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Revisiting iTunes alternatives for the Mac
aubuti;501936 Wrote: Not sure about the Mac version of Songbird, but on the Windows version (and I think the Linux version, though I have to confirm), it's simply: File Export playlist(s) [select playlists to export] THEN click the Preferences button in the Export Playlist(s) dialog, and on Default playlist format to export your playlists as click the drop-down menu, choose M3U, then click OK. then click Export playlist(s). Or maybe the Mac version doesn't have the M3U option? The Mac version can use the Export Playlists plugin to achieve this. However I believe the OP was using a PPC Mac and AFAIK there is only an Intel build of Songbird for OS X. davep -- davep davep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=61 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73445 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
