Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
I have one of the 2m/1.25cm KG-UDV1P models (they come in 2m/1.25m and 2m/70cm) and it works great. There are active Yahoo! Groups to learn more about the radio. I bought mine at Dayton from a US Distributor at http://wouxun.us/ - as pointed out by others, this model is Part 90 (commercial LMR) certified -- not required for Part 95 (Amateur) use, but its nice to see that and they can be programmed for both Part 90 and Part 95. (They are not on the Part 97 list [GMRS/MURS/...] though they cover the frequencies.) Wouxun distributors actually solicit input from customers for next generation radios by asking on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wouxun_KG-UVD1/ (Something mainstream amateur manufacturers could learn from ... I was listening to a public radio story on how though Japan has done much better economically they are culturally much more monolithic than China, China has many ethnic and cultural groups and are much more open to "foreign" ideas -- much less NIH [not invented here] seems to be a side effect that would be good for us.) They do seem to have a mobile in the works (I am not aware of a D-STAR option). Perhaps *a lot of D-STAR enthusiasts* asking for a radio that does D-STAR directly to Wouxun.(http://wouxun.com/Two-Way-Radio/Contact.htm) would generate a product. But be realistic, what are the minimum requirements for the radio at a reasonable price point. Anyone can ask for a DC-to-Light radio that takes out the garbage for $10, but it isn't going to happen. How about a 2m/70cm 50w mobile with narrow/wide analog and D-STAR for under $250 -- maybe, based on their other products? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On 9/2/2010 3:30 PM, n2gyn wrote: Well, I thank everyone for their comments and Technical info. I think because of my trained ear it makes it harder to deal with the robot sound. It reminds me of effects processing. One thing that puzzles me is, why some stations sound less robotic then others. Why is that?? I am not looking for HIFI sound quality, just a more natural sound. I feel like I am talking to a computer instead of a real person. Very impersonal. Thanks to all again for your comments. John My experience is that most D-STAR stations do not sound like robots. It is not the pure note of analog, but certainly quite smooth and clear. Perhaps you have some multipath, or other issue that is causing a just enough bit errors that the AMBE chip is not quite able to correct them all. Have you been able to try D-STAR simplex on a short and clear path? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Fwd: D-STAR Reflector REF001 Status & FRRL W9CEQ D-STAR Repeater Update
On 8/30/2010 7:52 PM, fm10meters wrote: Tried to connect tonight to the REF001 with my new NQSMHS. As soon as it connects it disconnects me. Any ideas? Thanks _,___ We need more information. What software are you running? (DVAR Hotspot?) Is the callsign the software is using to connect registered? Does it allow you to connect to anything else? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DVAP Help
On 8/28/2010 9:28 AM, AllanM wrote: Hello all, my name is Allan. i currently have the IC-92AD. the D-STAR repeater around me does Not have Gateway enabled. My question is, If I get the DV Dongle or make one, can i still use the Gateway if i have the DVAP or homebrew dongle? i really want to get on D-Star but still learning about the radio. please help me thanks, Allan May, WD4ITE EC Mathews Co, VA Since you already have a radio, go with the DVAP or a DVAR Hotspot, then you are not tethered to the keyboard at the computer. DVAP - http://www.dvapdongle.com/DV_Access_Point_Dongle/Home.html (Good for around the house, hotel room, etc. plugs into USB port, small, neat, package) DVAR Hotspot - http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ and http://enicomms.com -- a little more work to get the pieces together and setup, but you can provide wider area coverage for yourself and others using a higher power radio and antenna. Lastly, for not a lot more money you can build a full repeater and run Hotspot or soon to be released software (http://g4ulf.blogspot.com or open_g2, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller) --- see http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ Pick your level of interest and enjoy D-STAR. (I manage a full Icom D-STAR stack 2m, 70cm, 23cm, and 23cm DD, but also am enjoying experimenting on my homebrew repeater.) <http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/> -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] REF001C weird linking issue
On 8/16/2010 10:56 PM, Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM wrote: I would suggest that since REF001 is having some issues, it might be time to look at using OTHER reflectors that are out there... Day In and Day Out, I see at least 10 emails about not being able to make it into REF001. Yes, 1C is the international CALLING Channel, but there are some 25+ reflectors out there with 3 channels each that are barely being used... I think we are getting thinned out a bit much with the RPTR / REFLECTOR in each hams backyard syndrome here... NOT that its a bad thing, but there are other reflectors out there, while Robin and his testers go to work on figuring out what ales REF001 use another, see if this issue is cropping up on another box don't bash it, test it out if more then one system shows the same issue, then we know there's a limit of operational means to the d-reflector program and Robin will get it fixed. Yes - though in testing for Dayton we clearly saw that a couple of hundred streams through a reflector can be supported. If more people would learn about the native D-STAR method of callsign routing, calling targeted individuals and areas are easily supported. Earlier this evening I had a nice QSO across the US, using callsign routing specifically to his station. The interesting side note is that the repeater I was on, is registered on the UKTRUST and the repeater the other station was using is registered on the USTRUST. Both run ircDDB so we were able to find each other by callsign and since I can hit another couple of repeaters on ircDDB (USTRUST) I could have moved, without the other station even knowing or caring. Linking and reflectors are great tools, which I believe have enhanced D-STAR for new users and wide area nets, but there is more to D-STAR than just pumping voice through a reflector. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] REF001C weird linking issue
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DStar-Gateway/message/5521 On 8/16/2010 7:44 PM, Gary Lindtner wrote:Greetings, For the past month or so, I have been unable to link the WG2MSK repeater to REF001C. I have tried with echo "REF001CL" >/dstar/tmp/link-b and with the radio UR set correctly. All attempts yield the busy message. No other reflectors seem to be an issue, just this one. Any advice, or a pointer to a D-Plus discussion group would be appreciated. Thanks Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] linked reflector + traditional callsign routing
On 8/10/2010 10:36 AM, Carl W8KRF wrote: Will this apply to my hotspot? I have several calls registered. My 92AD is W8KRF A, my car is W8KRF M, my hotspot is W8KRF B, and my DVAP is W8KRF C. 90% of the time I am on the hotspot which is linked to WB8THD C. WB8THD C is usually linked to REF001C. The only time I am on RF is when I am in the car and out of range of my hotspot. It gets very confusing when Dongels, DVAPS and Hotspots are involved. AND...is it G2 or DPlus...or whatever else the gurus are coming up with. What is "traditional" for those of us who are coming into this in the middle of all this change. 73, Carl By not understanding call sign routing there has been a trend to assign too many radio specific "initials" by D-STAR users. A station has *one* callsign, in Carl's case that is W8KRF. All radios; handheld, mobile, base, etc. should have the MYCALL set to "W8KRF" (blank initial). Having radio specific callsigns breaks simple callsign routing. The only exceptions to this should be, two radios operating on different repeaters/frequencies *at the same time* or if you have a couple of ID-1s and want to have a special callsign for "digital data" (128K) and one for digital voice. All other initials "P", "M", "H", ... are both unnecessary, but also counter productive. (A club with multiple radios operating in network fashion is a possible exception.) If you run a Hotspot and/or DVAP they should probably have their own initials for the DPLUS network, as they don't provide callsign routing anyway. /So why do I say that additional initials are not only unnecessary but probably bad?/ Let's say I want to contact Carl, and I don't know what Reflector or Repeater he is on, nor which radio he is using, with callsign routing I can simply set "URCALL" to "W8KRF" and if all of his radios use the same "MYCALL" my signal will be routed to the last repeater he was heard on, regardless of whether he was on his handheld, mobile, or base. This makes it very simple to find someone (and quite frankly the feature of D-STAR that I think is unique, linking is just like analog linking). If, on the other hand, Carl has "A" assigned to his handheld, "M" to his mobile, "J" to his second mobile, I have to set "URCALL" to each of these in succession to try to find him, assuming I even know what initials he is using. (Each callsign and initial combination is a unique address on the D-STAR network.) -- If you want to let the world know which radio you are using, put it in the short message or the 4 letter comment. Callsign routing probably would have gained traction earlier if the updates to gateways weren't so slow, but ircddb has solved this problem if gateway owners will just install it. (http://www.ircddb.net) I have observed updates for a station moving to a new repeater completing before PTT is released by the operator. With these rapid updates, you just have to key up on a new repeater and you can continue your callsign routed qso fairly seamlessly. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Fwd: Connect with the National Scout Jamboree via D-STAR on Reflector 030B
It's really simple - just go to: http://ref030.dstargateway.org (look for the listed repeater) You won't see it on http://ref003.dstargateway.org On 7/28/2010 11:54 PM, John Parkins wrote: Hello Dave, As I don't think there is a REF030B it would look like a simple typing error. Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 8:09:37 PM, you wrote: DH> Its 30B Don http://ref030.dstargateway.org/ DH> On 7/28/2010 2:52 PM, Donald James wrote: DH> DH> One of these says REF 003B and another says REF 030B … can DH> someone confirm which one it is? Thanks, DH> DH> Donald ~ N2VU -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-STAR in Las Vega$
On 7/18/2010 12:53 PM, J. Moen wrote: You probably know all this, but when preparing to visit a new area, you can find out about the US Trust registered D-Star repeaters at http://www.dstarusers.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5 <http://www.dstarusers.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5> W7AES is interesting. I notice Daniel reports W7AES does not work at this time. And when you go to their DPlus Dashboard at https://w7aes.dstargateway.org/ <https://w7aes.dstargateway.org/> it shows no links and no last heard callsigns. But the dstarusers.org page for this repeater at http://www.dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=W7AES <http://www.dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=W7AES> shows 18 Last Heard callsigns from various places around the world, including one just a little while ago. The other Las Vegas repeater is listed as N7ARR. http://www.dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=N7ARR <http://www.dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=N7ARR> shows only 2 callsigns on its Last Heard report for the last 14 days, but that page also lists the trustee's email address, so you could contact him for answers to your question. The same repeater list shows W7KDS in Kingman, AZ (last time I was there was 1963). There is one Last Heard callsign for the last 14 days. It might makes sense to DPlus Link to all of those repeaters and see if anyone is around. Jim - K6JM W7AOR, Kent, is often on REF014C -- he is the control OP for N7ARR repeaters. He sometimes pops on the NU7TS net at 8 PM (Mountain Time) on Sunday evening -- REF029C. I'm pretty sure he welcomes visitors on his repeater(s) but I haven't been to Vegas lately. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID-880H
On 7/3/2010 6:12 PM, paul_ka3qxb wrote: Looking for suggestions for a GPS unit that I can connect to my ID-880H. Thanks Paul KA3QXB Anything that puts out 4800 baud standard NMEA strings on a serial line? There is nothing magic here, just avoid consumer navigation devices with USB connectors. You can go from simple devices like those available from people like http://argentdata.com to high end units from a variety of manufacturers -- I haven't plugged it in yet, but probably will use my Garmin 3+ -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: In hindsight... [daydream]
On 6/27/2010 4:11 PM, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: How do you propose to pump a 9.6kb/s data stream through a 12.5 khz (in reality) repeater or repeater receiver ? 4.8 - yes - 9.6 no. At least not without changing the IF filters in the receiver and using twice the occupied bandwidth. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 3:58 PM, john_ke5c <mailto:k...@hot.rr.com>> wrote: > PA3YBR has already run DD over the 4800 signal on D-STAR. -- NU5D - Nickel Under Five Dollars We are talking 4800 bps. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: In hindsight... [daydream]
On 6/27/2010 1:58 PM, john_ke5c wrote: If G4ULF and KB9HKM supported this mode; if AA4RC modified his reflectors to create a "data mode" reflector; and if the node-adapter folks would add such a data mode (serial in/out at 4800 bps), you could do this with non-DStar radios over much of the existing network infrastructure. AMBE is not needed for this mode. Interesting to speculate. 73! You don't really need a modification of the reflector code, there is already a ton of stuff out there for TCP/IP that would handle those functions. You are correct that AMBE is not needed. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [Bulk] Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] In hindsight... [daydream]
On 6/27/2010 11:18 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote: John, Don't programs like D-RATS send data in DD mode from laptops and other devices through the data cable of my IC-80AD when I'm not sending voice? //Thanks & 73,// //Gordon Beattie, W2TTT// //201.314.6964// Nope. D-RATS, which is a great program, uses the DV-Data (1200 bps interleaved bits) on a standard DV signal -- On these links you are only using those bits and in fact are still sending "voice" its just silent. What is being suggested here, is to use the DD format (as defined for the 128K 23cm links) for data communications over the same 6.25kHz modulation mask as DV. If you pull down the Shogen document http://www.jarl.com/d-star/shogen.pdf you will see Digital Voice and Digital Data have two different payloads with only a flag difference in the D-STAR header. Once this is accomplished D-RATS could use the full 4800 bps via a node adapter, using the TCP/IP protocol as used with the Ratflectors and point to point over the Internet. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] In hindsight... [daydream]
On 6/25/2010 11:56 AM, john_ke5c wrote: a.k.a. wish list; I suppose this would reduce the attractivene$$ of the ID-1, but what if Icom had created a "9600 baud data mode" with a dd (two lower case D's) mode as well as the DV and DD modes for the vhf/uhf rigs? We would call this the "not as slow data mode", and the radio display would work as a simple display screen for a really dumb terminal. Either one module in a stack would be dedicated to this mode, or the dd packet would be identifiable so that radios in the DV mode would not try to decode the audio. Error correction would have been included, so the actual rate would be less than 9600, but still 3 or 4X the current low speed rate, and the radios would be useful for more than they are now. Probably just another Friday PM daydream. CQ FD! 73--John PA3YBR has already run DD over the 4800 signal on D-STAR. To tell D-STAR you are using DD format (Ethernet Frames) rather than DV (Voice) format is only 1 flag bit in the header. Fred says this does not harm DV communications on the same frequency (though you can only have 1 signal at a time). The problem is the RP2C repeater controller has expectations on whether an attached module is DV or DD and likely Icom G2 software has the issue as well. With the advancement of alternative repeater/controller/gateway chains using node adapters <http://enicomms.com/>, this mode is well within reach (though out of spec). Build up a G4ULF repeater <http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/2010/02/release-plans.html> or DVAR Hot Spot <http://w9arp.com/hotspot/> (I have done this - it was relatively simple http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/nw7dr-the-d-star-repeater/), work with G4ULF and KB9KHM to support both repeating of these data streams and to break them out to the /dev/tap /et voilà/! Then for user radios, until there is an integrated solution from a manufacturer, one would just need to use node adapters with an appropriate driver that looks like an Ethernet device (very slowly). Remember though, that you will need to have strong signals or bit errors will get you on these packets. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: D-Star & air interface authentication
On 6/23/2010 10:04 PM, ra3apw wrote: Thank you All for answers and clarifications. Really the key word of my question was _AIR interface (RF) authentication. _Do we have a procedure to implement this feature (air interface authentication) in D-Star? For radio digital protocol it should not be difficult technically. 73, Karen RA3APW __._,_.__ ??? Karen, There is nothing in the protocol to support authentication, it only provides identification. Current generation radios implement the standard and that standard has no mechanism for authentication. Authentication would have to be an add on application and for current radios, that would mean some form of external device to handle the authentication mechanism. Any true authentication would have to have an irrefutable token, probably some public/private key mechanism with distribution of keys to licensees off the air (e.g. via secure Internet transfer). In some countries it may be problematic to use such an authentication system since it might include an encrypted token between radios and some countries forbid encryption on RF, though this might be considered a control signal. Such a system also would be fairly impractical because of database size and updates for mobile stations. You can't depend on a network based authentication service as such an extension would, by definition, have to support simplex transmissions off the network. For most of us, there is no need for such a system as this is amateur radio, a hobby, and largely self policed. There are regulations that can support prosecution of those who choose to abuse the hobby. For example, in the US it would be very easy to say that anything other than the operator's station callsign in the "MYCALL" field of a D-STAR signal would be a false identification, which is expressly forbidden in the US Regulations 97.113a(4) "...messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or *false* or deceptive messages, signals or* identification*;" -- regulations in Russia may be different. There will always be callsign pirates and those who do not identify at all, and weak authentication just will encourage increased anti-social behavior. At the repeater/gateway level, it would be fairly easy to filter out calls that don't have recognized callsigns. This should probably be implemented. I have written a regex (Regular Expression) filter that is pretty effective in finding patterns that look like amateur callsigns or one could implement a filter that checks a database of callsigns (such as the G1/G2 registration system), but none of these prevent pirates. One hazard of such a filter is bit loss in the address fields creating an unrecognizable callsign, which would be rejected for an otherwise legitimate transmission, with no feedback to the transmitting operator who may speak for an extended period. I support a no pre-registration approach. A new user should be able to buy a radio, program MYCALL, and get on the network from RF (network connected devices are another story). This means either the filter has rules of what a MYCALL should look like, or have automatic lookup of any and all callsigns issued -- pretty easy to do in countries like the US where the license database is a public record and freely distributed (with daily updates) but may be nearly impossible in countries where such data is not freely and regularly available. So "technically" solutions could be derived, but from a regulatory, D-STAR standard extension, and pragmatic point of view, this may be very difficult. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder
On 6/10/2010 8:03 PM, J. Moen wrote: When talking about DV hardware approaches, I have no problem with D-STAR's use of the proprietary AMBE coded that sells for about $20 per chip in small quantities. It was chosen because it was the best codec available. Most other DV systems use AMBE chips too. But when talking about DV software approaches, the AMBE chip does limit development, not so much because it's proprietary, but because you can only get it at that inexpensive price on a chip. This greatly limits experimentation. So a couple of new codecs legally available to amateurs would be very welcome. David's codec2 web page also points out the value for amateur satellites of having open code that could be uploaded to the sats. He advocates at least two new codecs, one with better audio quality and wider bandwidth for use on VHF+, the other using narrow bandwidth (like MELP) for HF. If this really happens, there will be a lot of happy amateurs worldwide. But I am skeptical that it will happen anytime soon. We are told it is very hard to write quality, workable codecs that work in a reasonable bandwidth. David's site currently conjectures how to go about this archtecturally, but this project needs more than good plans and good intentions. But, I wish him luck. Jim - K6JM I think most of us are in total agreement with Jim on these points. We would love to see open source and unencumbered DV Vocoders. The push back is only when someone wants to use it to break D-STAR, which has an installed base and a defined protocol. If someone is successful in creating a new DV Vocoder, I'm sure many of us will give it a go -- I will probably be early in the line :) -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder
On 6/6/2010 5:18 PM, a cutler22 wrote: The prospect of an open-source vocoder, ham-developed would open a lot of doors in the way of experimentation, and reduce the $$$ barrier. A DSTAR protocol implementing Codec2 Digital Voice would significantly drop the entrance and appeal to a much wider audience! -73 de Anthony, KE7HQY D-STAR by definition includes AMBE, any other vocoder is not D-STAR. I applaud people working to advance the art but D-STAR is defined -- if what the experimenters create is better, then it will get a following. (If it doesn't infringe on someone else's intellectual property -- which means it better get patented or otherwise protected so someone else doesn't patent it after the fact -- big dollars.) I think cost is a red herring -- the AMBE chip is around US$20+ per unit. If the new vocoder can be produced for that price in small quantities for hams it would be very surprising. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Multiple 2820s / one callsign question
On 6/3/2010 10:50 PM, Gary Pearce KN4AQ wrote: It is good in that way. I think it will cause a problem with call sign routing if people adopt it frequently (M for mobile, B for base...) - they will be "unfindable" (my spell checker claims that's not a word) by anyone who doesn't know what ID character they're using. The beauty of call sign routing is its simplicity. I know this isn't new - it's just that most of us are only learning about it now. It's a wrinkle of complexity that has at least two sides, it seems. 73, Gary KN4AQ __._,_.__ Gary makes an important, albeit subtle, point here. The "random" or cachet use of the "id" character confuses the issue for the person who just wants to contact a specific station, e.g. K7VE. If I use a different "id" character when I'm at home, mobile, portable, marine, or aeronautical, any other station wanting to contact my station would have to try all of the "id" characters until they found the one that was actually in use. The only time to use more than the simplest, e.g a space in the "id" character, is if a station actually has two, or more, /*_simultaneous_*/ operating positions on different modules (either on the same or different gateways) or to designate DD operation as opposed to DV operation. The other case, is like the recent question about a club that wants to use the club callsign on multiple radios that are likely to be operating simultaneously or at designated and differentiated locations. Too often people think of them as SSID from AX.25 packet days. D-STAR is not AX.25 packet, D-PRS is not APRS. While they be similar in some of the functions they do, they are unique and different from their cousins. Any attempt to "standardize" on certain "id" character letters to designate a class of operation, is local and only confuses the issue. We see this already with the use of the "id" character on D-STAR modules and reflectors -- many operators consider the A, B, C and 23cm, 70cm, 2m marriage sacrosanct, but in reality they don't have any relationship whatsoever other than "herd mentality." What if you have an Icom controller attached to four 70cm modules? They can't all be the "B" module. If you have 2 cars, then are they both "M" in the "id" character? Keep it simple, one should just use the blank "id" character unless one has a compelling need. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ARRL Field Day Rules
Bob N3PUG wrote: I would like to know if anyone can tell me how I can find the 2010 Field Day rules. I would like to know if they will allow VHF simplex contacts in DV mode like they do in the FM mode. I like working FM simplex on VHF and have had a lot of great contacts on simplex in the DV mode as well with a lot less power! Can anyone please tell me if the ARRL will allow DV simplex contacts to be made in the contest this year? Thank you, Bob, N3PUG Oxford, Ohio http://www.arrl.org/files/file/2010%2520FD%2520Packet%2520February%25203.pdf Nothing that would prevent you from making and scoring points using DV Simplex. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Linking vs. Source Routing
Chris Fowler wrote: We have US based D-Star reps. Talk to them and ask if ICOM Japan is stupid. Last year, I was in a meeting with the head of Icom's D-STAR development from Japan. I tried to explain to him how DD could be more effectively marketed in the US (a lower cost unit with an Ethernet port on one end and an antenna connector on the other - I had a few EMCOMM people in the room who agreed that this was needed on 23cm, plus some interest in a 70cm DD device), and his reaction demonstrated a total lack of interest in what the US market thought, e.g. he was the expert and he would define what we needed in the market place. When the 9100 was announced, I looked at the specs and the US regulations and it appears to me that D-STAR meets the requirements to operate on more than the 10m HF bands. (Part 97.305 D-STAR has a modulation index of 0.5 and a bandwidth comparable to phone transmission (AM)) I suggested to US Icom product management that the firmware should not limit D-STAR below 10m, the response was "it's too late in the development." I am a fan of Icom amateur radios, and own a few and will probably buy more over time -- but even though Icom's US amateur radio management is pretty tuned in to the US market, they still work for Icom Japan. Their software, on the other hand, is not very good at all. If they would publish full specifications a lot of software could be written that would expand their sales considerably. Fortunately, we have some good reverse engineering experts in our ranks and there his a lot of activity going on to create alternatives to the Icom G2 system. Unfortunately, those same folks are building G2 compatible software that propagates the horrible architecture that currently exists. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] transceiver output spectrum
A good jump off point is http://utahvhfs.org/dstar.html -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Linking vs. Source Routing
interpreter...@gmail.com wrote: If they made the registration process uncomplicated by just typing in your name, call sign and password, instead of registering with a club, and putting in the necessary sp aces, asterisks and #'s, everything would be much simpler and less confusion for un non- technical folks. Make everything so there is no need for a users manual just to !*&#$* sign up. Surly someone agrees, si? 73- cat Registration of user radios shouldn't even be required, but that's how Icom designed it. Until a new gateway system is written that abandons it, we're stuck with it. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Looking for DSTAR MAP
john_ke5c wrote: > 3 - Hardware GMSK repeater (uses same board as hotspot - see http://enicomms.com <http://enicomms.com> I've got to find out if the kit includes all the parts... I bought the assembled version (soldering with no depth perception is difficult if not dangerous), but to my understanding it is a complete kit. You do have to obtain firmware for it. I am using the firmware from PA4YBR and it seems to work FB and it costs EUR10 (plus EUR0.60 if paying by PayPal). -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Alternative D-STAR Equipment (Was: Looking for DSTAR MAP)
Chris Fowler wrote: On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 22:52 +, john_ke5c wrote: > Can you imagine how far CW, SSB, FM, PSK, etc. would have gotten if > only one manufacturer had locked up (patented, copyrighted, whatever) > the technology? Has ICOM extended the spec so that Yaesu can not make a compliant radio? Yes, the codec is locked down but I don't see what would prevent Alinco from making a HT that can talk to an ICOM repeater. Anyone can make a D-STAR air protocol compliant radio. If it does the air protocol correctly it should work just fine with both Icom repeaters and the other hardware and software approaches mentioned up thread. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: newbie
Marlin wrote: I thought DD referred to all Digital Data transmission...whether they are slow (2m/70cm) or fast (23cm). It's a common misconception. They are actually different. The D-Rats site is not very helpful. Join the list -- it is very active, has lots of information, and the author of D-RATS as well as the users are quick to reply. The author spends more time adding features than updating the site -- the list is where the information gets disseminated If the repeater is coming back with an ID, where would I see it? On the radio display? Marlin I do not own a 2200H but if you get signal on receive shortly after key-up it is probably the repeater ID'ing. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] newbie
Hi Marlin, Well you have a nomenclature problem - DD (Digital Data) refers to the Ethernet encapsulation within D-STAR protocol at 128K and is only currently available on 23cm using the ID-1 radio (and RP2D module). If you key your mike and the repeater comes back with an ID, you have basic configuration correct for your radio (IC-2200H + UT-118 is probably the most primitive and lowest functionality of any Icom D-STAR radio, save maybe the V/U82 handhelds). D-STAR radios that are not linked to a busy reflector can be notoriously quiet - so put out a few CQs on the repeater to see if anyone is out there. (If everybody just monitors and never talks, the repeater will sound empty). As far as D-RATS goes, it uses DV-DATA (sometimes called "slow data"). DV-DATA is a bit-stream that is combined with the digital voice stream and provides about 950 octets per second of half duplex data traffic. What KK7DS has done with it is truly remarkable. In most areas, on air D-RATS is usually on simplex or via pre-arranged schedule. Your best support for D-RATS questions can be found at http://www.d-rats.com/mailing-list/ Welcome to D-STAR. Marlin wrote: I need help. I have an ICOM IC-2200H with the UT-118 freshly installed. I have a gateway account on my local D-Star repeater. I logged on and I think I checked all the boxes and got one IP. I "think" I have configured my 2200H correctly. I sorta understand the DV, but I never hear anyone on the radio. I am primarily interested in DD. I have D-Rats installed on my computer. I can connect to the def.d-rats.com ratflector. I also made a serial cable from the ICOM to my computer. D-Rats connects to the radio and when I "ping" or "chat", the ICOM hits the repeater, BUT I never seen any other stations (unlike when i'm on the RAT PORT). I was hoping all the DD (D-Rats) users on all the linked repeaters to my local repeater would pop up and I could chat and email them. Am I doing something wrong or am I totally confused about D-Star and what it can currently do??? KD5IVK marlin John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Automatic Operation - Control Point Definition
I think it's pretty clear that the FCC is applying Repeater and Auxillary rules -- John D. Hays Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: CONNECTING TO RELECTORorREPEATERS
John wrote: Ok, one more question...When connecting to a D-Star repeater for the purpose of contacting anyone who happens to be listiening. Do I need a / in front of the repeater call? After connecting I would then enter CQCQCQ on my end? Or am I thinking of connecting to a reflector? Thanks N0MEQ It depends: If you are using native D-STAR callsign routing in which case you leave /CALL B (Module) in for every transmission. If you are using the D-PLUS application, you do it just like a reflector CALL CL (Module/Link) then switch to CQCQCQ. The best thing to do is try some scenarios on the D-STAR calculator: http://www.dstarinfo.com/Calculator/DSTAR%20Web%20Calculator.aspx -- it will become much clearer at that point. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Dstar Gateway Backup System
aj4g wrote: I have a dstar gateway that is working just fine, but I want to build a backup in case something happens. I am using a dell poweredge 800 server with centos 5.3 and G2 software. Now if I build another dell poweredge 800 just like the one I have and install centos 5.3. How can I move over all the g2 stuff, because when I first built the first one, I had all kinds of problems with getting it running, had to call icom dstar tech seveal times, but finally got it working just fine. Any ideals on this, I have tried some of the tips on google, but have not got a working backup yet. Ralph aj4g If you get a second disk of the same model you can use the program dd to copy one disk to the other, put it in a like server and you have a duplicate system. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_(Unix) -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID-1 DD using a Mac ?
Or you could even try http://www.kronenberg.org/wine/ to run the Icom control program (which isn't necessary to run DD, just to control the radio) Adrian wrote: bosshardss wrote: > > > Anyone have first hand experience running 23 CM DD using a Mac PC ? de > nu5d > This is the way to go for that Steve; http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/ <http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/> and use the usual icom software. serial port (ftdi mac FT8U232AM driver http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP/MacOSX/FTDIUSBSerialDriver_v2_1_10.dmg <http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP/MacOSX/FTDIUSBSerialDriver_v2_1_10.dmg> also required) setup; http://www.codeweavers.com/support/wiki/FAQ/SerialOverUSB <http://www.codeweavers.com/support/wiki/FAQ/SerialOverUSB> vk4tux -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID-1 DD using a Mac ?
Hi Steve, I haven't actually connected an ID-1 to a Mac (if someone wants to loan me a pair, I will test), but there is no reason why it would not work for DD. DD is an Ethernet bridge over RF. As long as you have well formed Ethernet packets going into the Ethernet port on the ID-1, they should just be sent and received at 128 kbps half-duplex. The Mac generates well formed Ethernet packets, and most of the time those use TCP/IP protocol. Do you have any specific questions or concerns? The radio control program (USB) from Icom, on the other hand, is a Windows program. bosshardss wrote: Anyone have first hand experience running 23 CM DD using a Mac PC ? de nu5d -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Explain this to me (Was News on IC-9100) US Audience
Ed, Certainly the regulations do not handle new and innovative technology well, this is why I think the Australian approach of regulations that say the emission must stay within amateur bands and operations governed by gentlemen's agreement would be so much better. But given that we have what we have... D-STAR is certainly digital, but is it data as envisioned in the rules or is it a digital implementation of "phone"? Since data isn't well defined in the regulation and seems most closely tied to "RTTY" or radio teletype, it seems to meant the sending of text or similar data messages (e.g. packet, psk, amtor, pactor) as the primary payload. One could easily argue that modern "image" communications are in fact data including signaling with data http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow-scan_television#VIS_code and the somewhat controversial HF ALE systems on amateur radio ( http://hflink.com/ ) use a combination of digital signaling and analog voice for communications on HF. (Though controversial, I have not seen any enforcement actions by the FCC declaring them in violation of the rules). Which brings us back to the point, (Ray are you reading), should Icom disable DV for the lower HF frequencies in this radio in the US version? Woodrick, Ed wrote: The answer is that the current regulations do not adequately address the situation. There are those who would swear that D-STAR is Voice and those who would swear that it is digital. And I've had this discussion with a number of people who have assured me that their opinions have been confirmed by the FCC J. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Put Snohomish, WA on the map.
The NR7SS repeater 440.325+, has been on the mountain for a couple of weeks, but suffered some duplexer and antenna problems. Those were corrected today and it seems to have a great signal in the Puget Sound region from the side of Mt. Pilchuck. No gateway yet, but if you are in range, give it a try. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Wouldn't It Be Nice ?
Ah, yes, the Icom add-on application. Decent idea, bad implementation. Daniel G. Thompson wrote: And let's not forget the "new" thing that G2 brought to us with "multicasting". when's the last time you used that ? Dan Thompson d...@waycom.com <mailto:dan%40waycom.com> > Callsign routing is part of the D-STAR protocol, linking is not. > Linking is an application at this point, perhaps in the future there > will be a D-STAR protocol definition for linking and hopefully it will > be engineered for good interoperability with the existing standard > protocol. > > Woodrick, Ed wrote -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Wouldn't It Be Nice ?
Callsign routing is part of the D-STAR protocol, linking is not. Linking is an application at this point, perhaps in the future there will be a D-STAR protocol definition for linking and hopefully it will be engineered for good interoperability with the existing standard protocol. Woodrick, Ed wrote I personally wish that the Icom software never implemented call sign routing and did linking instead, -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Standards, Extensions, Add-ons (Was Re: Wouldn't It Be Nice ?)
When I say "a non-standard add-on", I'm referring to the process which standards go through (I have served on a few standards committees through the years, from distributed computing - NCS, to printer languages - PCL, to bank check standards - ANSI X9B (now X9AB)). D-STAR as a protocol, went through a standardization process (though fairly limited, since the JARL didn't seek broad input and consensus). To "extend" the protocol, would require a review by the recognized standard setting body for the protocol, which to this point is exclusively the JARL, to become formalized. DPLUS (and DEXTRA) linking have not gone through that process and are the result of a single person's efforts (and copying of the same), who retains full design and architectural control. This doesn't discount the hard work performed, nor the general acceptance of that work, even to the point that it has become a "de facto" standard on most gateways. However, it is not an extension of the protocol, but rather an application built upon and adjunct to the JARL protocol standard. It would be good for the hobby, to put the "ownership" of the standard into a larger, international forum, with key contributors from the larger community, then the standard could be extended for universal acceptance, following discussion and balloting. This could be started by publishing the full specification in internationally recognized languages, including English. In the absence of this pragmatic disclosure, people will invent things that may or more likely may not comply with the D-STAR standard specification as original codified by the JARL. I have been told that the JARL has specified the controller to gateway, and gateway through Internet protocols as well as the on air protocol (which we do have translated documentation for), but it is unreadable by the majority of the international community. If what Icom has created in their gateway is truly in the JARL specification, then it demonstrates the total lack of knowledge of distributed, real time systems (not to mention japanese centric aspects) and cries out even more for a broader oversight. If not, then it could be cleared up and cleaned up by a committee made up of experts in the field, who are also active D-STAR community members. john_ke5c wrote: > Just to be clear, routed calls are not "Icom routed" calls, they are native to the D-STAR protocol. The Icom gateway implements them. DPLUS linking is a non-standard add-on, widely deployed and accepted by the users, but not native to the protocol. > > DE K7VE More later, but just to be really clear, dplus is a DStar extension, not an add-on. Nothing in the DStar protocol prohibits extensions, so to say dplus is "non-standard" is a non sequitur. Dplus adds features to the DStar environment which overall are "accepted", -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Washington State D-STAR Mailing List
A low volume mailing list has been created at http://groups.google.com/group/wa-d-star for Washington State D-STAR users. This list is intended to be a meeting point to discuss Washington D-STAR activities and projects. If you live in or near Washington, please come by and sign up. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] IP addressing vs. DV & DD Protocol Transport
ally... then the Gateway and VHF/UHF came along, and are by far > the more commonly used "side" of D-STAR now. > > -- > Nate Duehr > n...@natetech.com <mailto:nate%40natetech.com> > > facebook.com/denverpilot > twitter.com/denverpilot > > > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Question? user switches dstar repeaters
ham44865 wrote: I switched from one dstar repeater to talk on another dstar repeater. Looking at my dstar repeater log, I started talking at: 072309 at 23:20:36 The ICOM trust server sent the dstar radio user RENEWAL 2 minutes later to all the other dstar repeaters at 072309 at 23:22:17 That is about 2 minutes. What happens during those 2 minutes when another ham wants to contact me? Audio packets are going to the wrong(old) dstar repeater ? Scott This is a problem with the current gateway/trust server implementation and a fallout of the radios must be registered paradigm. I think a much simpler algorithm would suffice (Psuedocode follows). * for each (header) o if (local.hashtable[MYCALL] != nulll) then + if (localhashtable[MYCALL].gateway != this.gateway) then # send trustserver[MYCALL].gateway = this.gateway + else # if (localhashtable[MYCALL].timestamp + timeOutInSeconds >= time.now()) then * send trustserver[MYCALL].gateway = this.gateway * localhashtable[MYCALL].timestamp = time.now() o else + localhashtable[MYCALL].gateway = this.gateway + localhashtable[MYCALL].timestamp = time.now() + send trustserver[MYCALL].gateway = this.gateway * if(localhashtable[URCALL] != null) then o if (localhashtable[URCALL].gateway != this.gateway then + fork() # PARENT : * send stream to localhashtable[URCALL].gateway # CHILD: * request trustserver[URCALL].gateway * if (trustserver[URCALL].gateway != localhashtable[URCALL].gateway) then o localhashtable[URCALL] = trustserver[URCALL] o send stream to localhashtable[URCALL] * else o request trustserver[URCALL].gateway o if (trustserver[URCALL].gateway != null].gateway) then + localhashtable[URCALL] = trustserver[URCALL] + send stream to localhashtable[URCALL].gateway o else + send localhost[MYCALL].message = "URCALL Unknown" Voila self updating tables locally with central registry in "trust server" - simple and elegant. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org>
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD vs 92AD
Ben, No problem, YMMV, I wasn't suggesting the IC-80 at all, only to suggest that it shares programming software with the ID-880 mobile radio. Just for the record, the IC-80AD and ID-880 are both "dual band" (they operate on both 2m and 70cm) but they are not "dual watch" (monitoring two frequencies at one). For dual watch, you would have to go to the IC-91AD or IC-92AD for handhelds, or the 2820H for a mobile. The question is are you better served with a mobile or a handheld/amp lash-up in your application. That is your decision to make. Ben Ramler wrote: > > > I don't want the IC-80 because its not dual band. thank you for the > idea! I am still led to believe that this the route to take. > > thank you for the input John. > > 73, > > Ben K0BLR > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD vs 92AD
You need to look at your application. If you are intending the radio to need higher power and be used for extended periods, get a mobile. If you need something very portable for quick status reports, get a handheld. By the time you buy a handheld and an amp, you are at least as expensive as the mobile with more failure points. You can run the mobile at low power as needed and it has the heatsinks and fans for a higher duty cycle. In other words, if you want an amp in your car for the occasions when you are mobile and need more power then the amp + handheld may be the way to go, if you also use the handheld out walking/hiking around. If thats not the case, a mobile is probably a better solution. Using Universal Radio as a benchmark. An IC91AD + BD-35 costs $489.90 (sale prices) You will want to add extra batteries, drop-in charger, cigarette lighter plug, programming software. Even using secondary market batteries and charger you are going to spend another $150+ and don't forget coax jumpers and adapters with multiple failure points. You might also want to add a speaker mike, holding the radio for extended periods gets tiresome, especially when it gets hot. An ID-880H is $499.95 - you're done. Programming software is a free download from Icom and you can share programming files with the IC-80AD for anyone that has one. Ben Ramler wrote: > > > what if you where to install some small fans on the box lets say two > do you think that would be enough to cool the radio as well as the > little BD-35? > > 73, > > Ben KØBLR > > __. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] EMCOMM Preparedness
Amen, brother - and I need it as bad or worse than the next guy. :) Tony Langdon wrote: > And a footnote, add physical fitness to your list of EMCOMM tools. :D > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > http://vkradio.com <http://vkradio.com> > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Digital vs. Analog both have a place.
bruce mallon wrote: > > > No I missed that Our digital goro here at the jail calls d-star a dead > issue which i dissagree with .. What was that link ( ill send him > a copy LOL ) > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/message/8132 -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: new to the group
Something to get your Internet from where its available to where you need it. Usually a radio network link in the 33/13/9 cm or shorter bands. Ben Ramler wrote: > > > point-to-point link? whats that? > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] no subject
From a budget and operational point of view, you might want to consider some ID-80AD handhelds. I don't recommend going to the U/V82s (or 2200 mobiles) as their D-STAR user interface isn't very good for otherwise solid radios. A lot of OPs don't require dual receive capability. Ben Ramler wrote: > > > > Hi Group, > > I just want to say I like the idea from the gentlemen who said he > won't buy VHF/UHF radios from yaesu until they look at putting D-sstar > in their radios. I think might edit my go kit now. Back to the drawing > board. I might follow his lead. > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: new to the group and moderation
Hi Ben, There are several moderators on this group. The general attitude is that as long as the thread doesn't wander too far from a D-STAR germane topic, we'll err on letting someone have their say. The main things that get moderated out are: * SPAM * Really bad trolls * Abusive or indecent speech * Mass cross posting of a topic or repeated copying of material from other forums. * Totally off topic (not remotely related to D-STAR) posts Its a judgment call and for the most part, things stay pretty civil and mostly on topic. I try to change a topic title myself if I think I'm wondering too far from the original topic. We mostly believe in self policing and only stepping in when necessary. There are enough moderators that many folks don't even realize this group is moderated, as posts are generally approved within minutes. Ben Ramler wrote: > > > Hi Bruce & group, > > So do you think I am going over board? thanks much! Also, please > excue me for stepping on some tose but alot of these don't really have > to with my origanl post "new to the Group". Can I get a ruling on this > from the moderator please! > > 73, > > Ben K0BLR > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Digital vs. Analog both have a place.
That's the positon I've taken, right to their faces at ham shows, including the time the Yaesu national guy was bold face lying (and knew it) about D-STAR being Icom proprietary. (I happen to like Yaesu radios, have 3 hf rigs by them 817, 847, and 100 -- but won't buy a radio from them until they start putting D-STAR in their VHF/UHF stuff) ... At least the Alinco reps acknowledge it would be a good thing to add D-STAR to their lineup. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > > > So while some aren't entering D-STAR until other manufacturers > implement it, I'm boycotting the other manufacturers until they decide > to join the 21st century. > > Ed WA4YIH > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] USB Dongle
See: http://www.moetronix.com/dvdongle/index.htm and http://www.dutch-star.nl/products/ JA1OGS (Art) wrote: > > > Hi Im new in this group, I like to know is there and homebrew project. > To built you own USB D-Star Dongle ? > > regards Art > > __. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: new to the group
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Ben Ramler wrote: > IC-2820H - Crossband, Analog/Digital > IC-92AD (3) - Spares Ben, I have a 2820H and love it, but be aware that it only does digital on side at a time (e.g. you can't monitor digital on both vfos or memory slots at the same time) - digital on one and analog on the other works fine. Also be aware that the display brightness and contrast leave a bit to be desired on sunny days in the car. 92ADs are in the same situation I believe (I know the 91AD is that way). -- John D. Hays - K7VE Email: j...@hays.org VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] new to the group
Ben, Only you can really answer your question, but let me pose a question for you to think about. What if you deployed to a major incident (like Katrina) in an area where D-STAR has been deployed heavily for Emergency Communications, would you want your options for support limited by not having D-STAR in your bag of tricks? ben_ramler2002 wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > I jsut joined the group, and I guess I come in seek od advice. I am > trying to put a go kit together. I'll admit is pretty amitious. My > question though is should I consider a D-star radio like the ID-880? > Even though there really are D-star repeaters in MN. > > thanks & 73, > > Ben K0BLr > Central MN > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Birmingham KI4SBB
I don't know, but a plus offset would put the input at 145.94 (if 600 khz) which would put it outside of the repeater band and not consistent with the FCC interpretation earlier this year. Ferrell wrote: > > > Anybody tell me if the KI4SBB port C is working? Dstarusers shows it > on 145.340 with a plus offset. Is that correct. I travel there a lot > and cannot make it in on the repeater. > > KE4QDC > Ferrell > > __. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Using the DD
Some administrators may block Internet access. Talking to the administrator of the local system will provide the local system knowledge. john_ke5c wrote: > > > > The best place to start is with your repeater owner/gateway > > administrator. The gateway may not be configured for general Internet > > access. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] more DV / FM questions
Adam, A good question. The reason it will not generally work is that analog voice repeaters have a variety of filters and audio amplifiers that are designed to emphasize the human voice. These same filters and audio amplifiers distort the GMSK signal of D-STAR to an extent that it cannot be decoded on the repeater output. A repeater can be designed to pass the signal through "flat", that is no modification of the audio, and it may pass GMSK just fine at that point (it may take a lot of tweaking and/or an inversion in the signal) as well as analog voice. This is usually accomplished by tapping the repeater's receiver discriminator and routing it directly to the repeater's transmitter modulator. And, yes, it would be very irritating to the analog FM users, and if they didn't know what was going on, they may key right over the D-STAR signal, disrupting the DV conversation. Adam Karsin wrote: > > > Ok with all the talk of interfacing DV and FM, here is another > question > if there is an FM repeater, that has no tone whatsoever, what is it about > Dstar that it wont pass through? > I know all the obvious like it ticking off all the FM repeater users, > and so > on... but lets say that I have a 2M FM repeater (I don't but work with me) > on 147.000 + CSQ. I know that if I set me radio to that frequency and > offset > in FM it works. Simple enough, we have used these for years. Now, my buddy > and I on our HT's very simply toggle into DV mode, why would this not work > the same? I know anyone not using dstar would only hear static, but > that for > the purpose of this question is not important. (lets call it a private > mobile repeater) so there is no one else on. > > Just a question, don't drag me before the firing squad!! > > Adam > KG4WWH > > _ -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Using the DD
The best place to start is with your repeater owner/gateway administrator. The gateway may not be configured for general Internet access. Frank & Linda wrote: > > > I have configured the PC to talk to the ID-1 and the ID-1 is "talking" > to the repeater BUT I don't get to the Internet. > If I switch to the DV repeater all is well. > Where do I start? > > Thanks for any assistance in advance. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] The great "red herring" (US Primarily)
While discussing the issues surrounding interconnection of non-DSTAR (analog - VOIP/ROIP) systems to D-STAR, I have had several people say "but the ID cannot be translated" between systems. This has been brought up in a couple of person to person discussions in just the past few days. Whether you have such interconnection or not, for the purposes of the US regulations, this is a "red herring" argument (if you are not familiar with this term, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(plot_device) ). ID requirements are for the originating transmitter (Rule 97.119 http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/b.html#119). It does not have to be relayed, translated, transcribed, etc. It only has to be copyable on the signal of the original transmitting station. Practical examples of this are link transmitters on linked repeater systems, the link transmitter may use a low frequency tone to CWID its transmitter, but it is filtered out on the link receiver so that it is not relayed on the next repeater. Anyone monitoring the link transmitter would be able to extract the ID, meeting the regulatory requirement, but those on the linked repeater would not. If you have ever been on a wide area linked repeater system, such as the Evergreen or Snowbird interties, you will note that you do not normally hear the IDs of remote repeaters, even though every transmitter (including link transmitters) must ID. Move this to an analog to D-STAR or D-STAR to analog relay and the same situation exists, the transmitting stations must each individually ID; the D-STAR user, the D-STAR repeater, the analog repeater, any links, and the analog user, but there is no requirement that those IDs be heard on every transmitter in the circuit. This message is not advocating the interconnection, it is merely to point out that the ID argument is not valid. A given gateway operator may have other reasons for not wishing interconnection, and it is within their rights to deny it. Some other countries have the requirement that the receiving station be able to copy the originating station's identification to engage in a communication. It is my opinion that this becomes the responsibility of the station in a country with such a regulation to inform the station with whom he is communicating of the need for the identification information, which could be provided a number of ways, as a courtesy, but the network has no responsibility to automatically provide that identification. Each station is responsible to follow the rules and regulations that apply to his individual operation and not the rules and regulations in another country of which he may or may not have direct knowledge. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID1 Expand
I think Jean has an ID-1 for another region (Japan?) that is incompatible with the Swiss band. He is looking for a mod to "open it up" for his band. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > > The Icom America page indicates a frequency range of 1240-1300MHz > > http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/dstar/id1/specifications.aspx > <http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/dstar/id1/specifications.aspx> > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Advice with new repeater in the planning stages.
One slight correction. If the repeater does not have a gateway, it can share a user's callsign. I know of at least one repeater stack where this is the case and has been operating for about 3 years (WA7GIE). So during the "standalone" phase, you could use your own callsign, but if you are going to run a gateway then the club callsign is the best route and Bob's advice is correct. Side note: There is no protocol reason that a repeater couldn't use the same callsign as a user, it is a side effect of the gateway code implementation. Bob McCormick W1QA wrote: > > > > > I know that with a D-star repeater, the repeater cannot have the same > > > callsign as the owner's and one needs to get a frequency pair from the > > > repeater council. I read over the application from the repeater > > > council's site and it asks for the repeater's callsign. Should I get a > > > callsign for the repeater from the fcc first, then apply with the > > > repeater council? > (snip) > > Apply for a club call through ARRL or W5YI. Then use that call to fill > > out your coordination paperwork. You will need to have a site selected > > and committed before submitting your coordination. > > Expanding on that: > > Not sure who your coordinator is - but by now they should know > something about D-STAR and the requirement that D-STAR have > unique callsigns. To kick off the coordination put your own > or a club's callsign in - and note that you will be applying > for a unique callsign for the D-STAR repeater. > > Apply to the FCC for the club call. Note that you will get > back (almost instantly from my experience with the ARRL) > a class-D callsign (2x3). > > If you want a vanity call - you can then apply for one; > that takes a little longer. > > This can all happen in parallel to getting the frequency > coordination and equipment. > > Changing a callsign on a D-STAR repeater is an extremely > simple task: connect your PC to the control port and > update it. > > BUT: if you are going to get your D-STAR controller setup > with a gateway ... you will want to setup that gateway > with the final callsign that you'll use on the repeater. > It is NOT a trivial process to change the callsign of > the gateway computer system - in effect you have to > rebuild it from scratch. > > HTH and GL! > Bob W1QA > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] CROSSPOST: Response to call for FCC action. [United States]
Yes the attached message is the same as the one at the URL. Bob McCormick W1QA wrote: > > > John Hays wrote: > > > Since the rptDir group is moderated, this response may not get posted, > > so I am crossposting this response to the message at > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rtpDir/message/1991 > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rtpDir/message/1991> > (snip) > > The aforementioned URL is not useful unless you have > a Yahoo! login - which I don't. (Was the Yahoo! group > posting one in the same with the posting at the bottom > of your original post in this thread?) > > I also agree with the don't feed the trolls recommendations ... > > Bob W1QA > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID880 How to get the GPS ICON to appear
The 880 (and 80) are new radios to most of us, but on some of the newer radios (2820/92) you have to both enable the GPS (tell the radio one is connected) and set a DV mode that tells the radio which sentences you are using and whether to use GPS or GPS-A encoding. As well as the null modem, be sure the GPS is sending at the right baud rate (usually 4800). Kent Hufford wrote: > > > I bought an ICOM 880 at Dayton, with Ed, and others help I put the right > parameters in the first time and got on the air with the Dayton DSTAR > repeater. This is a whole new world to learn. > > Downloaded the ICOM "free" software and was able to load all the settings > from the radio, make some changes and upload. So the DATA port is working. > > I am trying to get the GPS portion of the Radio to work. I went into > the GPS > setup settings and turned (illum) on show GPS in the upper right > corner. As > I read the manual the GPS should be on steady or flashing based on whether > the radio is receiving good or bad(no?) GPS data. > > I cannot get the GPS ICON to appear. I've plugged in a NEMA RMC rs232 > working GPS (two different ones) and no ICON. I even read the small print > that it needed a NULL Modem adapter. So, I made up a 3/32 Stereo "null" > adapter crossing what would be pins 2+3 on a DB9, which is TIP and RING of > the 3.32 Stereo plug and tried that. NO GPS ICON. > > Read in the manual that sorta referred that the GPS would not work > without a > call sign. My call sign in entered, and it works cuzz I got on the Dayton > DSTAR with all the correct call signs and settings. > > I must have to "SET" another setting, got to be something simple. > > Has anyone else setup a "3rd Party" GPS on the 880 and made work? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kent > > KQ4KK > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Native D-STAR vs. DPLUS linking (was: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Signal Distance)
You missed the whole point. You and Ed seem to advocate that DPLUS is the only legitimate way to talk across the D-STAR network and have at least alluded that you would like callsign routing banned. For those cases where it makes better sense, it is the right solution, and it is part of the protocol, so those of us that understand it, will continue to use it. Banning callsign routing use would be like banning defibrillators on airplanes (the point). They are not for every passenger, but for those who need them, I'm glad they are there. Those of us who understand and support callsign routing acknowledge that DPLUS provides functions that are useful to many, the reverse courtesy seems to be totally absent. john_ke5c wrote: > > > > > Callsign routing to a long haul truck driver who is in range of a > DStar repeater say 5% of the time, and whose whereabouts even then > would be known only if he remembered to key up? > > > > Well, that is like making the argument that there shouldn't be > defibrillators on airplanes because they only are useful 0.1% of > the time when a passenger has a heart attack. > > I'm glad you agree: defibrillators are as useful to the average > airline passenger as callsign routing is to the average DStar radio user. > > 73 -- John > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Native D-STAR vs. DPLUS linking
Steve is correct. It has more to do with the user interface than with the protocol(s) involved. One of the problems with D-STAR (and amateur radio design in general) is that radios are designed by engineers, usually without any benefit of a user interaction designer. The popularity of the iPhone, for example, tells us a lot about how people would interact with a communication device and associated applications. What I would like to see is a radio platform for D-STAR that is integrated with something like Android (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Android), with a touch screen as well as other controls. By using an open platform like Android, applications could be written by the community that talk to the underlying DV (and DD) mechanisms, as well as controlling frequency and other operating parameters. I don't currently see Icom or other major amateur radio manufacturers adopting this approach (Icom just started providing free access to programming software for newer D-STAR radios) - but one can hope. Maybe something can be built on top of Fred's (PA3YBR) platform. The same is true for the gateway. If OpenDSTAR ever comes out, there is a lot that can be done to create a much more friendly user interaction with the network, though simpler controllers need to be built and leave routing/gateway functions to the gateway (The whole module "G" in RPT2 is stupid and redundant if the controller would just pass all traffic to the gateway.) Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: > > > DSTAR continues to emerge. That said, I believe the long range solution > > to more fully utilize DSTAR lies in a sensible user interface that > integrates all of the features of DSTAR (G2 and Dplus) in a user > friendly format. Also making system statue available on demand through > the low speed data capabilities will be a tremendous asset. > > Picture adding a $300 PC to your radio and getting a GUI interface where > the PC gets a daily or weekly update of the state of DSTAR, and uses > that info to communicate with and control your radio. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Native D-STAR vs. DPLUS linking (was: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Signal Distance)
D-PLUS Linking has its purpose, for wide area nets and if you know where the station is that you want to talk to and the repeater they are using is linked. Source routing to an individual callsign (native D-STAR) has its purpose as well. If the station (callsign) that I want to talk to is attached to a traveler, say a long haul truck driver or a road warrior, then simply calling the station using callsign routing makes more sense. Hopefully, the participants in a "local" QSO that gets interrupted by a remote call are not the types that think they have exclusive use of a frequency and have the courtesy and skill to let the remote station know what is going on. Callsign squelch is not D-STAR native, but it is a nice feature added to their radios by Icom. It seems quite a few folks think that callsign squelch is the only reason to have the UR callsign set, but I see it as a secondary feature. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > > ... > > That's something that just WILL NOT HAPPEN, no way, no how, with > callsign routing. There have been three or four way conversations with > people from different states and different countries. That CAN NOT > HAPPEN with callsign routing. > > We have the Southeaster Weather Net where 25+ repeaters and 50+ users > link up. There's less doubling here than on a FM local repeater net. > You CAN NOT DO THIS with callsign routing. > > If I am having a conversation on a repeater with someone local and > someone source routes in, they don't know an existing QSO is on the > repeater, even if the wait 15 minutes. The only way that they can find > out is if they keep transmitting and watching their display and > eventually see the error code come back. For me to tell them that the > repeater Is busy, I've got to program my radio as I'm driving 70 mph > down the road. And then make a call, and then change the programming > on my radio. A process that usually takes a couple of minutes. > ... > > Ed WA4YIH > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Tactical Call indication
The 20 character message works very well and would be a good place to do "Tactical" if you need more than 4 chars. The issue for the callsign is that in D-STAR the callsign field is more than identification, it is part of the addressing scheme. Whereas in APRS you often are just reporting position and status, it is fundamental to D-STAR network routing to have universally unique addresses (e.g. your legal callsign) in the various callsign fields - it is global in nature. If you are *not connected* to the gateway network then it really doesn't matter. Dennis Griffin wrote: > > I haven't tried it, but checking my ID-92AD manual, it seems that a > user defined 20 character message can be sent with every PTT > activation, so maybe that method could be employed when needed. > > 73 de Dennis KD7CAC > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Internet Address Space for Amateur Use - Net 10 vs 44
Net-10 is reserved for private networking (non-routed to the rest of the Internet), it is a Class A network, though with the advent of CIDR many advocate the elimination of the use of the 5 classes when describing networks. Net-44 (AMPRNET) is also a Class A which *"may"* be routed to the Internet, but does not *"need"* to be routed to the Internet, in fact it is so rarely routed to the Internet that I have seen tradeshows grab it for show floor use. I "own" a "Class C" network, which is currently routed to the Internet, but has not always been so. I registered it so early that I am "grandfathered" with private "ownership" of the address space, whereas most people now wanting any address space must lease it from an ISP. I've been at IP (and other networking) for a long time :) You will note several Class A networks that are reserved, many of which are not routed to the general Internet (http://www.flumps.org/ip/a/indexa.html) Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM wrote: > > > John, the 44 net is an external IP and not a router LAN accessible ip. > 10/8 net was chosen because it is a Class A net. More hams then > pc's right??? > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Compression/encoding on data-only transmissions
With a tip of the hat to Dan (KK7DS) and Pete's (AE5PL) applications that use the extra data space in the D-STAR DV signal, I don't believe it was ever intended to be a reliable and transparent data service. It's great to have a place to send some data along with voice data (and its FEC), but I would venture it was intended more as an SMS/GPS/Signaling service rather than a data communications transport. One of the primary goals of fitting the total signal in 6.25 kHz (4800 bps) limits the amount of data one could push through the system anyway -- it is data streaming for realtime data (voice). DD is the real data service in D-STAR and I think it is a shame that it was not spec'ed and implemented at multiple data rates/bandwidths, including a 4800 bps (6.25 kHz) data transport. mungewell wrote: > > > D-STAR Low Speed Data has so much promise, but Icom's serial port > implementation severely handicaps implementation. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 Have an iPhone? Check out http://iphone.donaldhays.com/maidenhead/ VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: D-Star Simplex
Actually it doesn't matter what's in any field; UR, R1, R2, MY, on Simplex other than you want to have MY set for identification. Unless the other station(s) have callsign or group squelch set, they will hear you. Using callsign or group squelch might be fun if you find the channel crowded. With callsign squlech you can also set auto reply, with text and/or voice. LeRoy F. Miller wrote: > > > To Simple! - So Simple I over looked it - > Thanks, I think I will try some Dstar simplex in Dayton - Look forward > to it! > Thanks again, > LeRoy, KD8BXP > > --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com>, Tony Langdon wrote: > > > > At 08:11 AM 5/11/2009, you wrote: > > >When you work Dstar simplex - what do you put in the R1 and R2? > > > > Leave them empty. Just put CQCQCQ in UR, and you're set (assuming > > your callsign is set correctly, of course :) ). > > > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > > http://vkradio.com <http://vkradio.com> > > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DStar uses
A D-STAR Stack on high Mt. Potosi would be a wonderful thing! Ken Sprouse wrote: > > My son, KD7YMP, lives in Pahrump NV where he sits in a bowl and is > surrounded by very high mountains. It would be an ideal place for 1296 > on a > mountain top covering the entire area. > > > > -- > Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG http://www.wa3fkg.com <http://www.wa3fkg.com> > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: DStar uses
Tell that to anyone trying to coordinate a 2 meter (and often 70cm) repeater pair around a metropolitan area. The whole repeater coordination policies need to be revisited, but that's a different thread. It's also a disappointment when you can't get a Tesla Roadster (http://www.teslamotors.com/) for the price of a golf cart. Each to its purpose and associated trade-offs. Steve wrote: > > As pointed out the real hindrance is the 6.25 KHz narrow bandwidth > design of D-Star. A dirty shame since we have tons of bandspace, so I > really don't see the need for narrow band in amateur radio. > While overall it's a disappointment, D-Star is something new to mess > with, so I will. > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DStar uses
This is really a question of bandwidth. The D-STAR Digital Voice system was designed to fit in a 6.25 kHz. bandwidth. Under the chosen GMSK modulation that allows 4800 bps of data to pass over the "channel" - the DV specification calls for this to be split between 2400 bps for voice encoding, 1200 bps for Forward Error Correction of the voice encoding, and the remaining 1200 bps being left for various data services on the signal. (Technically, one could encode the full 4800 bps to DD, the Ethernet encapsulation protocol for D-STAR, but it is not in the specification, or supported by the Icom radios - PA4YBR has done some experimentation in this area.). Higher Data Rates would require more bandwidth. Ken Sprouse wrote: > > > I was looking for radios that would be able topass signaficant > amounts of data in addtion to a voice channel all at thesame time. > Perhaps I am expecting to much. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DStar uses
Contextually correct, since pretty much everyone is running Internet Protocol (IP) over their ID-1s. However, D-STAR DD is actually Ethernet packets and Ethernet packets may encapsulate a variety of protocols including IP, IPX, Ethertalk, XNS, Decnet, Apollo Domain, ... see http://www.cavebear.com/archive/cavebear/Ethernet/type.html One could even implement AX.25 over Ethernet, if there was a need. Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM wrote: > > High Speed Data however will have correction within it > being TCP/IP. So yes, correct, Low speed NO, High Speed YES. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] W7DIN Moving to Chino Valley, AZ
Ed, I'm curious why you are recommending this? There are other gateways that go offline for a period and come back - it seems like a lot of unnecessary effort if he will return with the same callsign -- For the convenience of his "users", he probably should unregister them and have them register on another gateway - but I don't see any purpose to what you propose here. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > > I'd suggest going through the uninstall process and get the Trust Team > to then delete you. > > When you come back online, you can then reinstall. > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] W7DIN Moving to Chino Valley, AZ
George, This is a better question to pose to the trust server admins or through the dstar-gateway list. However, if it was me, and I was keeping the same gateway/repeater callsign, I would just notify everyone you were going down for 3 months. Unregister anyone that would like to register on another gateway so they can update their own records. I would not uninstall anything, just do an update when you install the gateway in Chino Valley and come back on the air from your new location. George wrote: > > > I am moving from Yuma to Chino Valley, AZ. > > The W7DIN Gateway will be going off the air in about 2 weeks, and will > be down for about 3 months. > > What do I need to do to prevent any problems with the Trust Server? > > George > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID-80 Street Price is Out....
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/5180.html -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] CMX589 AND AMBE2020 ORDER
Try the Yahoo! Group gmsk_dv_node (this is where the builders hang out and they do group buys from time to time). i0inu wrote: > > > cmx589 and ambe2020 where and 'can buy? > thanks > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom IC-80AD
When I spoke to Icom folks at the Puyallup Hamfest <http://www.mikeandkey.org/flea.htm> they indicated they expected to see them in Bellevue around now. The referenced URL could be interpreted that the radio operates on 6m, but according to the manual on the FCC site, it is 2m/70cm transmit only. https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1070571&native_or_pdf=pdf (manual page 159, PDF page 47( https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=955657&fcc_id=AFJ315500 Gary Wilburn wrote: > > > Hi Gene, > > Have you checked the Icom America site? > > http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/handheld/ic80ad/default.aspx > <http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/handheld/ic80ad/default.aspx> > > Interesting note: According to the specifications the IC-80AD will also > transmit on 6 meters along with 2 meters and 70 cm. Wonder when they will > start shipping? > > 73, Gary W8VI > > Gary > > - > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom IC-80AD
See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/message/7045 genedathe wrote: > > > I see Universal Radio has listed the Icom IC-80AD on their site. A > quick search didn't yield much positive information. Any one know the > difference between the 80 and the 92? > > Thanks, Gene NAØG > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Need someone to chat with 1 on 1 about a DTAR repeater setup
Hi Mathew, If you are going to replace the 2 meter analog repeater you have one of the toughest resources, a 2 meter pair. If you are going to put your DSTAR repeater on that frequency, you should be able to reuse your duplexer and antenna system. If you add 70 cm/23 cm it is generally advisable to add separate antennas for those bands. As far as buying your controller and first module, unless you can find one on the used market (rare), its like shopping any other piece of Ham gear. I'm not aware of major price differences between the major dealers, but a few calls/emails should get you the answer. Example prices (AES): RP2C - Controller (up to four RF modules)$1329.99 RP2000V - 2 Meter Repeater$1299.99 RSRP2G2 - Gateway Software$299.99 A good (used?) server box P4/1GB/10GB abt. $200.00 (I like rack mounted units) A good router that can handle Class A on the LAN - Check out http://www.roc-noc.com/home.php?cat=4 (They handle MikroTik, a very good router - though takes some familiarity to setup.) If you are going on the gateway system, you will need a club callsign (if you use your personal call, then the gateway software gets confused when someone wants to call you). Save yourself a hassle and get the callsign before you put up the gateway. Follow the instructions here: http://dsyncg2.dstarusers.org/JoiningTheNetwork2.pdf Join the dstar-gateway Yahoo! group for advice. Goto http://dstarusers.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5 and you should find references to other Indiana / Illinois D-STAR repeaters for "local" advice. Welcome to D-STAR. If you can, visit the D-STAR booths and D-STAR night at Dayton Hamvention. n9lv wrote: > > I currently have a 2 mtr analog repeater and have been kicking around > the idea of installing a D-Star repeater system. I have several > questions, and really need someone to work with me on an individual > basis for just the beginning. > > First off, I realize the Controller and at least one module is needed > to get started, and the gateway software, where do I go from there? > > What is the best place to purchase the equipment, the price? > > Appreciate your assistance. > > Mathew > N9LV > > __._,_ > .___ -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Callsign Routing (Was: Obfuscation of Callsigns)
Dayton is always an aberration, you can't set any kind of communication policy based on what happens in 4 days in Ohio! :) The gateway implementation needs some improvement on callsign routing, it needs to update much faster. However, I would contend that most operators are generally on a very small number of repeaters during any given time frame. There are differences in different parts of the country. In Colorado, Utah, and many of the mountain states, a single repeater can often cover hundreds of miles. There just isn't as much need to change frequencies/repeaters as there might be in areas with no high elevation repeater platforms or very uneven terrain. The claim that callsign routing "won't work," is a parochial view at best. Reflectors and gateway linking have their place, especially for wider area nets, but most of the time there is no reason to invoke them for one-on-one QSOs and should not be used as an excuse to not understand or avoid other routing methods. Icom's implementation of zone and area repeaters, is designed to handle the metropolitan network of repeaters, but due to the high cost of their (10 GHz) solution, nobody is using it. If all the Atlanta repeaters are not linked up to some reflector, finding a specific station may mean creating and breaking multiple gateway links, until you find the one the particular station is on -- not very efficient (or friendly). If an Atlanta station is playing repeater roulette there's not much that can be done, but if they mostly stay on a single repeater for extended period, finding them via callsign routing is pretty trivial. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > Callsign routing works ONLY if the user hasn't recently changed > repeaters. Might not be a problem in WA, but in Atlanta we've got a > number of repeaters and users commonly move back and forth between > them. I regularly use 3 different repeaters and if I'm driving through > town, add a couple of more. > > I'm not talking about normal operations, I'm talking about the > original scenario where there were a number of D-STAR repeaters and > users were spread across them. > > I listened to the repeater at the Dayton Hamfest last year. Since > linking wasn't commonly available then, stations were callsign routing > in. And trust me, they didn "go away after awhile" You couldn't hold a > local conversation because remote stations kept barging in. > > Ed WA4YIH > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Callsign Routing (Was: Obfuscation of Callsigns)
Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > But if you are in the middle of a public service event, then there's > often a bunch of traffic occurring on the channels. And if you return > the call, you have to hope that the one-touch worked, and that no > additional traffic started on the other repeater. And then you've got > to remember to switch back when finished. > Sure that's not much when you are sitting down, with the radio or HT > in front of you. But if you are driving down the road or shadowing an > event official as the run all over the place, it just isn't the > easiest thing to do. > > Remember, that in this hobby there are a LOT of people who have > problems figuring out how to get PL turned on. > > Ed WA4YIH > > > > Chances are if nobody can get back to the remote station, he'll just go away after a couple of calls. (For an event, you should have a net control, who is capable of handling this situation, and/or turn off the gateway until its over.) Most repeaters are so quiet that the chance of a "barge in" from a remote station is almost negligible. Callsign routing is a good technology if you are looking for a specific station. It's part of the design and protocol of D-STAR. If you use the mode, you should know how to use callsign routing and deal with the occasional "visitor" -- if you just want audio linking, there are plenty of choices. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] looking for a dstar presentation
Mike Mansfield wrote: > > I am doing a dstar presentation for my club and since I have never > used D-star I was wondering if anyone already has one prepared that I > can use. > > 73's > > WA3RFE > > > http://k7ve.ampr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=26 It needs updated, but you are welcome to start with it. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Obfuscation of Callsigns (Was: US Topic - Collecting and publishing information)
I honestly don't know why this is such a big deal to some folks? If someone pops in between transmissions on one of my QSOs, I just call them and let them know what's going on, whether its to invite them to the current QSO, to standby, or other. It's a hobby folks. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > It also can cause problems with someone transmitting to another > repeater and not knowing that a QSO is in progress. > > Ed WA4YIH > > __._, -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] US Topic - Collecting and publishing information about Amateur Radio Transmissions (Was: People Locator)
I think that people are confusing their professional computer (or other) security concerns with the nature and purpose of Amateur Radio Communications. As KE5C pointed out, by statute, amateur communications are not private and have no prohibition for monitoring or reporting. Some argue that "personal privacy" concerns override any right to publish intercepted communications and that publishers should be required to obtain the permission of the amateur operator whose transmissions are being monitored before publishing any information about that transmission. This position is both contrary to the practice, tradition, and even regulatory history of the United States amateur radio service. For example, for many years it was a requirement to keep logs of all communications in the amateur radio service, including both the log keeper's transmissions, as well as those of the station with which it was communicating; including time of transmissions, and the content of some transmissions, especially in the case of 3rd party communications. The remote station implicitly consented to the recording of information due to the fact that they engaged in the communication with another station. It was also routine to record specific information about the remote station, including, station configuration, geographic location, time and frequency of transmissions, as well as personal notes about the communication such as names of family members, upcoming events - including trips, that may include details of when the station owner may be away from their residence. These logs were sometimes published, in whole, or in part, for the benefit of others. Additionally, it is common practice for Amateur Radio nets to record participation of stations, and to publish that information on a regular basis. All of these practice are part of the culture, tradition, and history of Amateur Radio in the United States. Furthermore, there are additional "reports of activity" in the Amateur Service; DX Clusters, spotting nets, APRS (and DPRS), beacon loggers and so forth. It is not uncommon to hear someone report on the transmissions of another station over the air, such as "I heard KX1XYZ on here 10 minutes ago and he said he was going fishing for the weekend." Traditionally, none of these activities have required the consent of the transmitting station to have both their activities and the content of their transmissions relayed either over the air or in publications, either local or national. In fact, many stations are happy to have their activities and achievements reported. These events are often reported in a very short time period from their inception, and this has always been true, whether, by telegraphic QSTs or Packet Radio BBS Systems, or modern digital communications. The collection and reporting of on air activities has always been the norm, whether real time or after the fact, electronically, or in print or other media. To suddenly come on the scene and say that somehow modern data collection and reporting must not report public and non-prohibited communications without the consent of the originator is unwarranted. Personal information security is a personal responsibility. If one does not want personal information collected, consolidated, and reported for use by other amateurs or the general public, then do not transmit it. I once knew a new amateur operator that did not want the local club to publish the same exact information about him that could be found on the FCC database, QRZ.com, and other places. He too was a computer security "specialist." There are ways to participate in this hobby and make personal information fuzzy, for example use a PO Box for your license information, don't "broadcast" information about your activities that you feel may put you or your property at risk. And last of all, don't let all the "what if's" keep you from doing the things you enjoy. -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] PSTN Interconnect (Was: Mobile High speed data)
Hi Don, As someone else mentioned, VOIP over the 23cm DD link may be a challenge for a few reasons. However, I think DV is the right place to focus PSTN interconnect. Then you have the choice of 2m, 70cm, and 23cm and by taking advantage of callsign routing calls can be addressed accordingly. The debate about reverse autopatch aside, here is a scenario that is very straightforward: 1. Create a channel driver for Asterisk that talks to an AMBE chip (either the DV Dongle or something new, like a multi-chip PCI card) - there is actually one written by KI4LKF, but probably needs a lot of refinement as he is using a different approach for his DPLUS alternative code. 2. On the gateway create a callsign addressable route to the Asterisk box using SIP or IAX2 3. On the Asterisk box configure a 'trunk' that is AMBE only. 4. Create a dialplan on the Asterisk box that uses the AMBE trunk to callsign address D-STAR radios e.g. IAX2/iaxdstar.org/K7VE or SIP/sipdstar.org/K7VE. Make individual stations extensions on the Asterisk PBX, e.g. extension 1000 is mapped to IAX2/iaxdstar.org/K7VE or assign a DID (Direct Inward Dial) such as +1-800-555-8355 mapped to IAX2/iaxdstar.org/K7VE. - with this setup K7VE could be signaled of incoming calls by an alert and withing the text portion of the signal the callerID of the caller could display and K7VE could either accept the call, send it to voicemail, or drop it entirely. Also, with the features of Asterisk, the incoming call could be directed first to another PSTN number (landline, cell, etc.), and if those were not answered then the box could play audio instructions about proper Amateur Radio communications before signaling the called station. 5. Calls from the radio could accounted for (and controlled) by the callsign of the calling station. Including a limited dialout plan, full record keeping (log) of all calls, and recording of such calls for later review. Something to work towards, I think. Don Russell wrote: > Also would like to know of anyone successfully using VOIP. > Is it possible to send voip over the high speed link. > I am thinking asterisk box with a standard pstn connection > at the AP and some kind of IAX client running ILBC > or GSM. That way a served agency could make a > real TX call via a d-star connection. > The only other way could like of being able to do this is via > a DVDongle and some creative audio patching. > > The concept is to be able to get a call to PSTN via D-star. > > Thanks, > > Don > W9DRR > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star users at Dayton- freqs?
I would make the argument to have some linking and some repeater modules not linked, so that callsign routing could be used and demonstrated. Woodrick, Ed wrote: > > It would be nice if the local repeaters could link to some of the > reflectors and let everyone know what they'll be linked to in advance > of the hamfest. This way people who are remote will know where they > can listen to and where they can call to contact people on site. > > Ed WA4YIH > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DV Node the Adapter 7M3TJZ / AD6GZ several simple questions
Hi Piotr, Most of the experimenters for this equipment are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmsk_dv_node - you will probably get quicker and better information on that list. 73 de K7VE sq1bhq wrote: > > Hi > > I possess started and correctly acting node adapter. > Echotest is 100% pass. > See foto on my blog http://sq1bhq.blogspot.com/ > <http://sq1bhq.blogspot.com/> > > Whether to join with different user D-Star on example rpt. DB0DF > I need install application hotspot or not ? > What settings to make in IC-E92D > Only what I made in file node.txt this position where sign was 7M3TJZ > on SQ1BHQ. It it is this all what was one should was alter ? > > If necessary programme hotspot is http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ > <http://w9arp.com/hotspot/> this where I can get information : > > -specify a Geteway auth callsign > -specify the address of the repeter geteway > -specify the UDP port of the repeter geteway > > Piotr, SQ1BHQ > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star users at Dayton- freqs?
I wasn't able to go last year, but usually Icom has a repeater in one of their booths. I believe Dayton is also now served by a repeater system (from dstarusers.org) W8BI <http://dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=W8BI> Dayton OH 147.11000MHz +0.600 443.75000MHz +5.000 and there is always simplex on 145.67. Hoping to come this year. n9aa wrote: > > I'm sure there are going to be a number of D-Star users at Dayton this > year. I'm curious to know what frequencies do D-Star user congregate > on there? > > I usually go for a day or two and thought I might drag the IC-91AD > along, just to see who is around. > > 73, > Scott, N9AA > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Gateway using Wireless access / WIFI
nt to speak to a specific station (callsign) without knowing what repeater (worldwide) the station is monitoring, the gateway system will figure it out and send your signal (datastream) to the right repeater and ultimately to your desired receiving station. In order to keep all of this data up to date, the gateway needs sufficient bandwidth to send and receive the datastreams for each of the attached repeaters to the various destinations, including a potential 128 kbps, usually TCP/IP, stream (from 23cm DD mode - Ethernet over the ether), as well as the command and control, data synchronization, etc. So, as you can see, this system is much more complex, and powerful, than the VOIP pack (IRLP, Echolink, etc.) that are only concerned with routing audio from one repeater to another over the Internet. In D-STAR, there is simultaneous audio and data, that must traverse the whole network. For these reasons, you will not be able to provide the services that D-STAR users want and expect without a decent, reliable, and moderately high bandwidth Internet connection. In D-STAR, you need to understand and provision a network, not just a radio link. Welcome to D-STAR! k2aau wrote: > > Nate: > > What about having a remote access from my home using another mobile on > the repeater pair connecting a sound card interface between the > computer and the radio back up to the repeater like echolink, do you > think that would work? > > Thanks, > > Artie > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ICOM announced new hand-held and mobile D-STAR transceivers, ID-80 and ID-880
This is in the manual at the FCC site, I forgot to mention it in my comparison. Storer, Darren wrote: > > Hi, > one of the best cost saving features of the new radios is not having > to buy > the programming software; we will be able to download the applications > from > the web site. > > 73 de Darren > G7LWT > > 2009/1/28 Oba mailto:ja7ude%40gmail.com>> > > > Here is the link > > http://www.icom.co.jp/release/20090128/index.html > <http://www.icom.co.jp/release/20090128/index.html> > > albeit it's Japanese. > > > > 73 > > Oba > > JA7UDE > > > > > > > > . > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Registering a Callsign on the Gateway
Cool ... I've got the handheld on WD7STR ipscone wrote: > > I'm registered. I spoke to Bill at WA7FW and got registered. Just > checked the "Unique stations heard" and my callsign pops up. > > Mike > KC7VE > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Registering a Callsign on the Gateway
Mike, It is up to the gateway operator to decide who they will approve. There's sort of a gentleman's agreement to register at your nearest gateway (WA7FW in our case). Have you tried contacting WA7DAD? If he can't get you registered, then another gateway might be willing -- you could try N7IH or VE7VIC. ipscone wrote: > > I've tried to register on WA7FA but their registration page is broken. > There are no other Gateways in WA which have registration web sites. > However, there are others across the U.S. > > I already know that once registered, you are good to go everywhere. My > question, however, can I register anywhere, or do I need to register > with a repeater that I actually have radio contact with. That is, if I > find a web page in CA that has online registration and then go to step > 2, where I register a callsign on the Gateway, must I have radion > access to that repeater. OR, can I just register on another gateway, > and use only the WA repeaters. > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] First D-Star contact
Mike, I don't know about the Camano repeater, I've never been able to raise it and I'm pretty sure Snohomish hasn't been put on the air. I would be interested to know if you can raise WD7STR near Boeing (Everett), it is in the footprint, but may be shielded. Yes, D-STAR audio is very clear until it drops down into what we affectionately call R2D2. If you consider, there is a pretty good hill between my home QTH and WD7STR and I was only seeing 0-2 S-Units on the radio last night's QSO would likely have been very noisy. I work down near the Edmonds ferry terminal (2 blocks south) and live in Edmonds, so if you want to get together after work, sometime, and meet eye-to-eye, we can, since your commute takes you past the Edmonds exit. ipscone wrote: > > My first impression was WOW. Crystal clear audio. No squeeks, > pops, static, etc. They might have to inject some noise to make it > sound like a radio. ;-) > > I look forward to more such contacts. I live South (Renton/Kent) > and work in Everett (near Boeing). I see there is a repeater in > Camano and one in Snohomish. Going to see if those are reachable > while at work. > > Mike > KC7VE (probably using WD7STR or WA7FW) > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Trouble configuring my IC-92AD for D-Star
This page shows you the club link and the registration URL -> http://wa7fw.com (which isn't responding tonight) -- anyway there is contact information for WA7DAD at http://fwarc.org/Admin/ClubOfficers/index.htm -- get in contact with Steve and he should be able to get you through the process. ipscone wrote: > > When you say "register on the gateway" do you mean "registering" as > in providing information to someone? The only link I see on that > page about joining anything is for installing a new gateway to the > network. > > Mike > > --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com>, "John D. Hays" wrote: > > > http://dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=WA7FW > <http://dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=WA7FW> for information > > about the Federal Way System and their registration URL. > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Trouble configuring my IC-92AD for D-Star
Mike, Well, except AK is Alaska, not Arkansas, KL7FF is in Ketchikan, but yes that's how you would program the radio. Though you need to be registered on the gateway system to do so - see http://dstarusers.org/viewrepeater.php?system=WA7FW for information about the Federal Way System and their registration URL. Once you are registered on one gateway, you are registered on all gateways (on the same network, about 300 or so), so if you are visiting Victoria or Vancouver or Atlanta or London, you can use the gateways there as well. There are two steps to registration - basic registration, and once accepted, you will need to go back in and register at least one call sign (terminal) -- then you will be set. WA7FW is often already linked to a reflector, so listen for awhile and get used to it, and talk to some of the folks over there (its too far from Edmonds). WA7DAD is a good contact. ipscone wrote: > > Yep! Batteries next on my list. ;-) > > Last question for tonight. I'm woefully behind the tech curve on D- > Star. But looking at the calculators begs this question: > > The following was given from the calculator, when I plugged in my > local gateway, and a remote one in Arkansas. If I program my radio > as follows: > > Programming for talking on WA7FW (port DV B) to KL7FF (port DV C) > YOUR:: /KL7FF C > RPT1: WA7FW B > RPT2: WA7FW G > Set Radio To: 443.8500 MHz Offset +5. MHz > > does my voice pop out on the Arkansas repeater? > > Mike > > _ -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Trouble configuring my IC-92AD for D-Star
Hi Mike, It was good to work you on WD7STR B tonight. Here are those links I mentioned: http://k7ve.ampr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26 http://nwham.com/repeaters/prox.php You might also want to check-out: http://www.d-rats.com There are alternate sources of batteries at about half the price of Icom's and a drop-in charger is handy. Welcome to D-STAR. ipscone wrote: > > BTW, my battery went dead on my last transmission, so I missed your > last comment. Guess I need an extra battery or two. ;-) > > Mike > KC7VE > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Trouble configuring my IC-92AD for D-Star
You appear to have the split backwards ... the repeater outputs on 444.5625 (which should be on your display) +DUP Have you also tried WA7FW B on 443.850+ (Federal Way - Low location right now)? ipscone wrote: > > I'm trying to communicate using: WD7STR > 449.5625/444.5625 > > Here's what I have set: > > 1) Set Frequency to 449.5625/444.5625 > 2) Set -DUP > 3) Mode DV-G > 4) Set CALL SIGN > UR: CQCQCQ > R1: WD7STR B > R2: Not Used > MY: KC7VE > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: jFindu Abuse
Shane, I think there are several principles at work here: 1. Amateurs are notorious for ignoring copyright and intellectual property rights. We see it in the many ways, including: 1. "Pirated" radio programming software (I've even had amateurs say they were "entitled" since they were volunteers!) 2. Reposting of copyrighted material to (multiple) mailing lists. (Just send the URL) 3. Stealing content from one site to place on another. (As Pete is observing.) 2. A website is designed to be used in a certain way. In this case it is for individual, interactive users to access the information. "Screen Scraping" on a regular basis puts load on the website whether the information has new values or not, and impacts the intended audience 3. As the author of this material, Pete should have a certain expectation that one would get permission to reuse his information. 4. As to the data itself: 1. A station that sends GPS information into the network is giving tacit approval to the collection and redistribution of that data. (e.g. if you don't want it published broadly, don't transmit it.) 2. When injected into the APRS data stream, there are several feeds to parse it from with a published method for doing so - http://www.aprs-is.net/Connecting.aspx (Pete, does the D-PRS data get relayed to the APRS-IS data feeds?) 3. I, too, believe that the data should be available for others to use in appropriate and creative ways, but it must be done in a way consistent with protection of intellectual property rights and copyright (e.g. don't steal other's work). I do advocate for open source and free sharing within the amateur community but that is the creator's choice, not the consumer's. 4. When the APRS-IS system was started, XML was not as prevalent as it is now, and broadband connections were at premium. An APRS-IS to XML bridge would be a nice feature for someone to create and put in the public domain. Personally, I think all common data for amateur radio should be published in a set of XML standards and be freely available, including mandatory publishing of all repeater coordinations (except control codes), qsl databases, gps reporting, and call sign servers, with advertised and well known web services to get at the data, but then I may be a dreamer. :) shaneblaser wrote: > > What is the concern? Is there an xml feed that makes the data available? > > Why not make the data available to all? > > Is it not better for dStar to have the dStar information used in as > many ways as possible? > > --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com>, "Peter Loveall" > wrote: > > > > I have noted that it appears there is automated screen scraping going > > on against the jFindu repeater last heard page. Specifically, it > > looks like someone has placed references to it in for the reflectors > > in a page that refreshes every 2 minutes. This is not only poor and > > inconsiderate practice but is illegal in the United States as the > > pages carry a copyright notice and I have given NOBODY permission to > > include jFindu content within non-jFindu pages. > > > > If you are the author of the page(s) that is(are) abusing jFindu, > > please remove the page(s). If you know who the author is of the > > offending page(s), please contact the author and have them remove the > > page(s). If this abuse continues, I will remove the ability to > > monitor activity on the reflectors via jFindu. I hope I won't have > > to remove all of the dstar pages due to abuse. > > > > The same statements also apply to the dstarusers.org web site. These > > sites are there for INTERACTIVE USER use, not automated screen > > scrapes or pirating of pages in frames, etc. Thank you for your > > consideration. > > > > 73, > > > > Pete AE5PL > > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Encryption on Amateur Frequencies
Here is an interesting read on the topic, for _interested parties_: http://www.hdscs.org/hipaa.html David B. Toth wrote: > > At 02:55 PM 12/30/2008, k7ve wrote: > >--- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com>, "Frank P." wrote: > > > > > > > > A group of ARES volunteers at a local shelter are in direct > > > communication with the Red Cross HQ, or a hospital, or the local > > > OEM. The shelter has several sick or injured individuals who need > > > assistance or transportation to a hospital. The shelter emcom hams > > > prepare a database (Excel spreadsheet, text message, etc.) containing > > > the names, addresses, SSN's, Health Insurance info, and other data > > > covered by the federal Privacy Act. How do they send this info > > > without violating the Privacy Act? > > > >I worked for a major healthcare company (Doctors, Hospitals, and > >Insurance) for 5 years. We dealt with HIPPA (not Federal Privacy Act) > >every day. Some information is protected, but there are also > >exceptions and there is certainly needed information verses > >information that can be collected later. > > HIPPA and Privacy are slightly different ... > HIPPA deals with not sending a person's insurance info to places that > should not have it. > There is a cottage industry that has sprung up to screw this around > to say that it covers all aspects of medical privacy. > It does not, but that is what Privacy Acts and institutional privacy > policies are about. > > I know this is more than anyone would want or should want to know. > > Dr. Dave > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IF filters
This doesn't give a direct answer but might be informative: http://utahvhfs.org/dstar_channel_spacing.html let_cyber wrote: > > Does anyone know what IF filter Icom is using for DV? Is it an off the > shelf crystal filter? Maybe 6 or 7 kilohertz wide. They would need a > 15 kilohertz filter to do standard FM. They would have to switch > between filters? hmm... > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] tri band that inlcudes 23cm?
The only D-STAR radios that have had any indication of a release this year are the ID-80 handheld and ID-880 dual band mobile http://tinyurl.com/ahas2y -- there's always a 'chance' but if you want to get on D-STAR soon, buy something that's available. Usually Dayton is the big coming out party for radios (also if there are going to be any good sales). If you are going to Dayton in May, it may be worth the wait, otherwise look at what's available. shaneblaser wrote: > > Any chances that icom releases a triBander ht with 23cm? > > I am sure it will be released after I purchase a 92ad ... > > Shane > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Dstar functionality with data
The only thing is that the RS232 signal needs to be at the standard baud rate for the radio (38400 ?) and that your application can recover from errors since there is no error correction for data. Mike VA3MW wrote: > > All > > I have an application (like weather data), that I want to feed into my > IC92 > RS232 input and fire it out on the air. Then, at the other end, I need to > receive it into an application on my laptop. > > Can I do this? The key part is that I don't want a computer at the 'far' > end._ > > Any ideas? > > Mike VA3MW > > __ > > . > > -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE <http://k7ve.ampr.org> PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org <mailto:j...@hays.org> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
