Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
For the 91AD, you have two options -- 1. Get the RS-91 software with OPC-1529 data cable ($50 + S/H from Universal Radio). If you loose the cable, an exact replacement is the Nikon SC-EW2 cable for $13 at http://www.dcables.net/nikon-sc-ew2-compatible-serial-cable.aspx -- this software lets you program the memories and settings, as well as operate your radio from your PC. In this mode, you can also easily send and receive short text messages. Note: the cable plugs into the Data port on the side of the radio. 2. Get the WSC91 cloning software from RT Systems ($25 download from http://www.rtsystemsinc.com/icom_Template.cfm?icompage=WCS91). They also sell the program packaged with their USB cable for $49. In my opinion, it is easier to manage the memories using this software, but it does not allow you to control the radio or send/receive low speed text data from your PC. You will need a cloning cable that goes from the radio to the PC. The stock cable is the CT-29A ($30 + S/H from hamstation.com) though later versions of the program seem to want the USB cable sold by RT Systems. Note: the cloning cable plugs into the speaker/earphone jack on the top of the radio. For everyday management of the memories, I prefer the program from RT Systems, but it's a cloning mode type program -- it reads in the entire memory of the radio to the PC, where you make your changes, then it writes out the entire memory back to the radio, which can be a tad slow. For changing just one memory channel, the ICOM program is faster, plus it supports operating your radio from your PC. This may not be of value to you, but it does allow making use of the slow speed data feature, if that's of interest to you and you don't want to use D-Rats. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:40 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software Hi Folks! I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience programming an IC-91AD for D-Star either manually or with software? I have an IC-80AD and it is ok with the freebie ICOM software, but I don't know my options for the IC-91AD and would like to use common software, especially if I need to buy it. Thanks 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
Another option folks seem not to be mentioning, is free software (still need to buy/make a cable). http://chirp.danplanet.com/ The application works for a small handful of radios (including the 91ad). You could always give that a shot before buying software. YMMV. Bill W1WRA On Sep 7, 2010, at 12:40 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote: Hi Folks! I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience programming an IC-91AD for D-Star either manually or with software? I have an IC-80AD and it is ok with the freebie ICOM software, but I don’t know my options for the IC-91AD and would like to use common software, especially if I need to buy it. Thanks 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 201.314.6964
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
The 91AD and 80AD have totally different memory configurations. The only Icom software that two radios can share is the 80 and 880. However, you can use the information from here http://k7ve.org/blog/2007/06/csv-load-for-icom-ic-91ad/ to help you move information between systems. (You can cut and paste from the 80AD software but the 91AD software doesn't have that ability). I have an 880, 91, and 2820 and have effectively moved channels between the three but you have to stand on your head sometimes to make it work ;( On Sep 7, 2010, at 5:52 AM, J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT wrote: Jim, Jack, Tony and Bill, Thanks for your great suggestions. Do the software packages from ICOM and RT Systems also work with the IC-80AD? It would be good to be able to use the same memory configurations in each HT and customize the overall files to match the differences in the radios. Thanks 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 201.314.6964 John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
Yes they do, you would have to buy the separate radio program for each radio and the cable but the one file will work with them all. That is what I have here I have 11 of the programs and files for different public service events and emergency groups and with this set up I can program most mobiles or hand held's that are out there and it only takes a few seconds for each radio and EVERYONE has the same list so if we need to we can say go to memory ## and everyone should be in the same place. N6UYB Jack E. Foster - Original Message - From: J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:52 AM Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software Jim, Jack, Tony and Bill, Thanks for your great suggestions. Do the software packages from ICOM and RT Systems also work with the IC-80AD? It would be good to be able to use the same memory configurations in each HT and customize the overall files to match the differences in the radios. Thanks 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 201.314.6964
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
On Sep 3, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Charles Scott wrote: Gary: Well, it's kind of a Tim The Tool Man Taylor tendency I have. I did, however look at the Icom specs for the gateway system and it says 2.4 GHz and 512 MB, so I'm not even an order of magnitude over that, which would be the Tim thing to do. I also considered fan-less 12V computer boards, but for what I paid for these systems, I couldn't buy a new one of those boards. The nice thing about this system is that it has redundant supplies, BIOS, drive array, fans, and so on so it shouldn't go down with common failures. It also has integrated lights-out management, so I can can talk to it over the network even when it's shut down to restart it, reboot, or diagnose problems remotely. The other nice thing is that they show up regularly on E-Bay at prices less than a cheap PC at Walmart. (It's a DL385 G1.) If nothing else, I could chew up some CPU cycles doing s...@home or some such thing, but the IRLP computer did end up with a bunch of things running on it also, and I suspect this will be the same. I even thought of installing VMWare on it and running both the D-Star gateway and IRLP in separate virtual machines, but I'd have to get more memory in it to do that well. Chuck Think about doing RAID1 and having two disks in it if it's inaccessible for 1/2 of the year. Disclaimer: I did this with W0CDS, which lives on top of a very high mountain -- and it still bit me in the hindquarters. Linux Software RAID1 isn't 100% ready-for-prime-time, sadly, after all of these years. The machine lost a drive, and instead of just chugging along, it started throwing I/O errors for all commands. Luckily, the RAID was working, it just never detected the failed disk. A power off/power on reboot cleared that problem and it came right back online with a single disk and one in a failed state in /proc/mdstat -- so that leads to item #2... Get a way to remotely REBOOT your system... be it a transistor switch on a co-located analog repeater controller, a remote power on/off device like a managed power strip, whatever works that you trust and can access when the box is down. That would have saved someone a trip to the mountain. But he went, we proved the machine would run on one dead drive and one live drive, and then he yanked the dead one to bring it down to get a replacement. Which leads to item #3... Since Linux Software RAID can work with, but really really really likes drives of the exact same CHS layout and size... get a couple of spares. Drive technology is still changing so fast, that by the time you need it, that model will be hard to find. Drives are cheap, keep spares if you're using RAID, or be prepared to backup/rebuild the system from scratch with two new drives when one finally fails. The reason for the drive failure we suspect is two-fold... high altitude (heat, less air between the spinning disk and the flying head, etc) and really bad power up there. Lightning wreaks havok with everything up there every summer, and apparently this drive died too soon into its usual life-span because of all the power hits. Even once we had a UPS inline, the stuff' that comes in on the power lines up there is just utter trash all summer long. It's just a tough environment for PCs. If you're building from scratch and don't mind the eventual performance hit and need to do a secure wipe and reload once in a while, the modern Solid State Drives are a good choice for a difficult site, I think. But their internal fragmentation problems and limits are becoming well-documented, and that secure wipe to get them to go rewrite every bit of the flash and reset the controller that's managing the flash, is important for most brands. Some good reviews of cheap vs. server grade SSDs are starting to show up on the web in droves now, whereas for a few years there, the testing and performance numbers just weren't available. I'd say it's a toss-up between spinning platter and SSD, when you factor in price. Cheaper than owning two SSD's is owning four mid-sized spinning platter technology drives, so you'll have to decide if you want to pay the premium and be an early-adopter, so to speak. -- Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com facebook.com/denverpilot twitter.com/denverpilot
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
On Mon, 2010-09-06 at 03:12 -0600, Nate Duehr wrote: Luckily, the RAID was working, it just never detected the failed disk. A power off/power on reboot cleared that problem and it came right back online with a single disk and one in a failed state in /proc/mdstat -- so that leads to item #2... Google Linux swap on raid using mdtools. I had issue where I did not RAID1 the swap. If the box used it and if the drive failed this caused issues that did not permit the box to continue to operate.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
Nate: Yep, since the system only had 2 drives I have it set for redundancy rather than space (it has an integrated RAID controller). It can therefore loose a drive and continue to run without the software knowing what happened (although I will). The better way to do it would be to throw in 6 drives so I could have a couple fail, which is what we do with our servers. Found one on E-Bay with 6 32G drives the other day for $99 and it still had dual supplies and everything. These are a great value but way to noisy to run in my shack! They do, however make great Web servers with 4 cores (2 processors) 6 drives, and a bunch of memory and I can get those configurations for about 1/10 the cost of current production systems. Yes again, since the system has integrated lights out management that uses a separate (third) Ethernet connector, you can connect to it even when the system is off or is otherwise not responding and turn it on, reboot it, or look for problems. That seems to be perfect for difficult to reach repeater sites. As to SSD and such, my preference would be to spend less than the cost of one SSD and get multiple complete systems like these DL385's. Could then either run them in some full redundancy configuration or simply leave one off till the primary fails then turn it on remotely. Could bring the spare up periodically to update it if necessary and never go to the site. The only thing left to do would be dual Broadband feeds and redundant switches, but that seems like overkill for Ham stuff. The problem I see with all this is that these kinds of deal systems will become popular for this type of application and I won't be able to get them cheap anymore. So everyone please ignore this thread! Chuck - N8DNX On 9/6/2010 5:12 AM, Nate Duehr wrote: Think about doing RAID1 and having two disks in it if it's inaccessible for 1/2 of the year. Disclaimer: I did this with W0CDS, which lives on top of a very high mountain -- and it still bit me in the hindquarters. Linux Software RAID1 isn't 100% ready-for-prime-time, sadly, after all of these years. The machine lost a drive, and instead of just chugging along, it started throwing I/O errors for all commands. Luckily, the RAID was working, it just never detected the failed disk. A power off/power on reboot cleared that problem and it came right back online with a single disk and one in a failed state in /proc/mdstat -- so that leads to item #2... Get a way to remotely REBOOT your system... be it a transistor switch on a co-located analog repeater controller, a remote power on/off device like a managed power strip, whatever works that you trust and can access when the box is down. That would have saved someone a trip to the mountain. But he went, we proved the machine would run on one dead drive and one live drive, and then he yanked the dead one to bring it down to get a replacement. Which leads to item #3... Since Linux Software RAID can work with, but really really really likes drives of the exact same CHS layout and size... get a couple of spares. Drive technology is still changing so fast, that by the time you need it, that model will be hard to find. Drives are cheap, keep spares if you're using RAID, or be prepared to backup/rebuild the system from scratch with two new drives when one finally fails. The reason for the drive failure we suspect is two-fold... high altitude (heat, less air between the spinning disk and the flying head, etc) and really bad power up there. Lightning wreaks havok with everything up there every summer, and apparently this drive died too soon into its usual life-span because of all the power hits. Even once we had a UPS inline, the stuff' that comes in on the power lines up there is just utter trash all summer long. It's just a tough environment for PCs. If you're building from scratch and don't mind the eventual performance hit and need to do a secure wipe and reload once in a while, the modern Solid State Drives are a good choice for a difficult site, I think. But their internal fragmentation problems and limits are becoming well-documented, and that secure wipe to get them to go rewrite every bit of the flash and reset the controller that's managing the flash, is important for most brands. Some good reviews of cheap vs. server grade SSDs are starting to show up on the web in droves now, whereas for a few years there, the testing and performance numbers just weren't available. I'd say it's a toss-up between spinning platter and SSD, when you factor in price. Cheaper than owning two SSD's is owning four mid-sized spinning platter technology drives, so you'll have to decide if you want to pay the premium and be an early-adopter, so to speak. -- Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com facebook.com/denverpilot twitter.com/denverpilot Please TRIM your replies or set
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
Nate and Charles -- This is a fascinating and educational thread. Lots of interesting and useful info from people with plenty of experience. Thanks for sharing with the rest of us. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Charles Scott To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements Nate: Yep, since the system only had 2 drives I have it set for redundancy rather than space (it has an integrated RAID controller). It can therefore loose a drive and continue to run without the software knowing what happened (although I will). The better way to do it would be to throw in 6 drives so I could have a couple fail, which is what we do with our servers. Found one on E-Bay with 6 32G drives the other day for $99 and it still had dual supplies and everything. These are a great value but way to noisy to run in my shack! They do, however make great Web servers with 4 cores (2 processors) 6 drives, and a bunch of memory and I can get those configurations for about 1/10 the cost of current production systems. Yes again, since the system has integrated lights out management that uses a separate (third) Ethernet connector, you can connect to it even when the system is off or is otherwise not responding and turn it on, reboot it, or look for problems. That seems to be perfect for difficult to reach repeater sites. As to SSD and such, my preference would be to spend less than the cost of one SSD and get multiple complete systems like these DL385's. Could then either run them in some full redundancy configuration or simply leave one off till the primary fails then turn it on remotely. Could bring the spare up periodically to update it if necessary and never go to the site. The only thing left to do would be dual Broadband feeds and redundant switches, but that seems like overkill for Ham stuff. The problem I see with all this is that these kinds of deal systems will become popular for this type of application and I won't be able to get them cheap anymore. So everyone please ignore this thread! Chuck - N8DNX On 9/6/2010 5:12 AM, Nate Duehr wrote: Think about doing RAID1 and having two disks in it if it's inaccessible for 1/2 of the year. Disclaimer: I did this with W0CDS, which lives on top of a very high mountain -- and it still bit me in the hindquarters. Linux Software RAID1 isn't 100% ready-for-prime-time, sadly, after all of these years. The machine lost a drive, and instead of just chugging along, it started throwing I/O errors for all commands. Luckily, the RAID was working, it just never detected the failed disk. A power off/power on reboot cleared that problem and it came right back online with a single disk and one in a failed state in /proc/mdstat -- so that leads to item #2... Get a way to remotely REBOOT your system... be it a transistor switch on a co-located analog repeater controller, a remote power on/off device like a managed power strip, whatever works that you trust and can access when the box is down. That would have saved someone a trip to the mountain. But he went, we proved the machine would run on one dead drive and one live drive, and then he yanked the dead one to bring it down to get a replacement. Which leads to item #3... Since Linux Software RAID can work with, but really really really likes drives of the exact same CHS layout and size... get a couple of spares. Drive technology is still changing so fast, that by the time you need it, that model will be hard to find. Drives are cheap, keep spares if you're using RAID, or be prepared to backup/rebuild the system from scratch with two new drives when one finally fails. The reason for the drive failure we suspect is two-fold... high altitude (heat, less air between the spinning disk and the flying head, etc) and really bad power up there. Lightning wreaks havok with everything up there every summer, and apparently this drive died too soon into its usual life-span because of all the power hits. Even once we had a UPS inline, the stuff' that comes in on the power lines up there is just utter trash all summer long. It's just a tough environment for PCs. If you're building from scratch and don't mind the eventual performance hit and need to do a secure wipe and reload once in a while, the modern Solid State Drives are a good choice for a difficult site, I think. But their internal fragmentation problems and limits are becoming well-documented, and that secure wipe to get them to go rewrite every bit of the flash and reset the controller that's managing the flash, is important for most brands. Some good reviews of cheap vs. server grade SSDs are starting to show up on the web in droves now, whereas for a few years there, the testing and performance numbers
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
While the AMBE codec chip is relatively cheap, someone would have to develop the firmware to support D-Star. It will happen eventually. There are strong rumors that an increasingly popular but not yet major brand is planning to bring out a D-Star radio. I'm assuming it will be mobile, probably in 2011, but have no hard info. It will be a big deal when we start having choices of brands for D-Star. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Kent Hufford To: wouxun_kg-u...@yahoogroups.com Cc: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Yea and getting a VHF/UHF dual band HT for $105 would sound impossible too. Kent From: wouxun_kg-u...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wouxun_kg-u...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n8...@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:24 AM To: wouxun_kg-u...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Wouxun_KG-UVD1] UVD1 price watch A Wouxun D-Star radio for $200 WOW waitress I'll have what he's having HI HI ! Ted N8ZSA In a message dated 9/6/2010 10:20:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, khuff...@atlanticbb.net writes: At the Huntsville Ham Fest, the ALA. dealer was selling them for $129 plus tax. At the Shelby/Dallas Ham Fest, one dealer was selling the UVD2 for $107 plus tax, and another NC dealer was selling the UVd1 for $105 plus tax. Competition is good. I hope Wouxun puts the $30 DSTAR CODEX chip in an HT and sells a DSTAR HT for $200. Kent KQ4KK (who did not check FCC stickers)
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
$30 DSTAR CODEX chip ??? Where does that price come from? Donald ~ N2VU A Wouxun D-Star radio for $200 WOW waitress I'll have what he's having HI HI ! Ted N8ZSA In a message dated 9/6/2010 10:20:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, khuff...@atlanticbb.net writes: At the Huntsville Ham Fest, the ALA. dealer was selling them for $129 plus tax. At the Shelby/Dallas Ham Fest, one dealer was selling the UVD2 for $107 plus tax, and another NC dealer was selling the UVd1 for $105 plus tax. Competition is good. I hope Wouxun puts the $30 DSTAR CODEX chip in an HT and sells a DSTAR HT for $200. Kent KQ4KK (who did not check FCC stickers) Switch to: mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change%20delivery %20Format:%20Traditional Text-Only, mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email%20delivery:%20Di gest Daily Digest . mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe Unsubscribe . http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Use . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=27858038/grpspId=1705063108/msgI d=2318/stime=1283786646/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
The KG-UVD1 has been upgraded to the KG-UVD1P CE FCC approved.(FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN04) Looks approved to me. I have two of their analog HT's (2M/70cm and 2M/1 1/4M) and have stunned at how well they work. Good receive, good audio and respectable battery life. I'm actually thinking these guys are getting a bad rap just because they're new and manufactured in China. From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stormc...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:26 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Wouxonpiece of junk and not approved for use in the US
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
Well... it does have a FCC acceptance. Junk is your opinion. From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stormc...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:26 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Wouxonpiece of junk and not approved for use in the US
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
FCC type acceptance is NOT necessary for amateur radio use. If that were the case then tens of thousands of home brew rigs would be illegal to put on the air. Clearly, that is NOT the case. FCC type acceptance is required for a manufacturer to SELL equipment. Since the amateur radio community is a technical one that is constantly advancing the state of art which is one aspect of the raison d'etre for our existence, can you be more specific why the Wouxon is a piece of junk? On 9/6/2010 12 39 Hours, Kent Hufford wrote: Well... it does have a FCC acceptance. Junk is your opinion. *From:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *stormc...@gmail.com *Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 12:26 PM *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Wouxonpiece of junk and not approved for use in the US attachment: jozef.vcf
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
Interesting, I didn't know it was that low. -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ted Wrobel Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:29 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Actually the DVSI 2020 chip is about $20 in quantity one from DVSI. Of course there are a few others chips and a little design required. 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald James Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:01 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR $30 DSTAR CODEX chip ??? Where does that price come from? Donald ~ N2VU A Wouxun D-Star radio for $200 WOW waitress I'll have what he's having HI HI ! Ted N8ZSA In a message dated 9/6/2010 10:20:01 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, khuff...@atlanticbb.net writes: At the Huntsville Ham Fest, the ALA. dealer was selling them for $129 plus tax. At the Shelby/Dallas Ham Fest, one dealer was selling the UVD2 for $107 plus tax, and another NC dealer was selling the UVd1 for $105 plus tax. Competition is good. I hope Wouxun puts the $30 DSTAR CODEX chip in an HT and sells a DSTAR HT for $200. Kent KQ4KK (who did not check FCC stickers) Switch to: mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change%20delivery %20Format:%20Traditional Text-Only, mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email%20delivery:%20Di gest Daily Digest . mailto:wouxun_kg-uvd1-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe Unsubscribe . http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Use . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=27858038/grpspId=1705063108/msgI d=2318/stime=1283786646/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
I have one of the 2m/1.25cm KG-UDV1P models (they come in 2m/1.25m and 2m/70cm) and it works great. There are active Yahoo! Groups to learn more about the radio. I bought mine at Dayton from a US Distributor at http://wouxun.us/ - as pointed out by others, this model is Part 90 (commercial LMR) certified -- not required for Part 95 (Amateur) use, but its nice to see that and they can be programmed for both Part 90 and Part 95. (They are not on the Part 97 list [GMRS/MURS/...] though they cover the frequencies.) Wouxun distributors actually solicit input from customers for next generation radios by asking on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wouxun_KG-UVD1/ (Something mainstream amateur manufacturers could learn from ... I was listening to a public radio story on how though Japan has done much better economically they are culturally much more monolithic than China, China has many ethnic and cultural groups and are much more open to foreign ideas -- much less NIH [not invented here] seems to be a side effect that would be good for us.) They do seem to have a mobile in the works (I am not aware of a D-STAR option). Perhaps *a lot of D-STAR enthusiasts* asking for a radio that does D-STAR directly to Wouxun.(http://wouxun.com/Two-Way-Radio/Contact.htm) would generate a product. But be realistic, what are the minimum requirements for the radio at a reasonable price point. Anyone can ask for a DC-to-Light radio that takes out the garbage for $10, but it isn't going to happen. How about a 2m/70cm 50w mobile with narrow/wide analog and D-STAR for under $250 -- maybe, based on their other products? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org sip:j...@hays.org mailto:j...@hays.org
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
What's not to like about the Wouxon? Is it that they can do what most others can for half the price or less? They're not even rated as water proof and I know of two that are still working after being dropped in water. They sound ( RX/TX) as good as any other HAM radio, they have better tx/rx lights than any other HT - as well as a bright flash-light. They cover the FM broadcast bands, have a talking menue, are well built . ect. I've always had a preference for commercial radios which I have (all bought new) but I knew when I first tried these Wouxons that they'd be popular - and with good reason. Donald ~ N2VU -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kent Hufford Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 12:39 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR Well... it does have a FCC acceptance. Junk is your opinion.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
Jozel, You are incorrectany radio that is imported is required to meet FCC certification.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
You mean a Ten Tec Orion II can be sold without being FCC type accepted because it is NOT imported. I don't think so. On 9/6/2010 14 31 Hours, stormc...@gmail.com wrote: Jozel, You are incorrectany radio that is imported is required to meet FCC certification. attachment: jozef.vcf
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] UVD1 price watch and DSTAR
At 02:33 AM 9/7/2010, you wrote: The KG-UVD1 has been upgraded to the KG-UVD1P CE FCC approved.(FCC ID:WVTWOUXUN04) Looks approved to me. I have two of their analog HT's (2M/70cm and 2M/1 1/4M) and have stunned at how well they work. Good receive, good audio and respectable battery life. I'm actually thinking these guys are getting a bad rap just because they're new and manufactured in China. Some of the cheap Chinese radios have quite a good reputation over here (we're talking analog FM, of course), and are recommended as a good way for new hams to get started. There is some real junk coming out of China, but there's also some quite reasonable low end gear as well. One just has to learn the good brands and the not so good ones. :) 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
At 02:40 PM 9/7/2010, you wrote: Hi Folks! I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience programming an IC-91AD for D-Star either manually or with software? I have an IC-80AD and it is ok with the freebie ICOM software, but I don't know my options for the IC-91AD and would like to use common software, especially if I need to buy it. Icom has software for the 91AD, but you have to pay for that separately. I'm sure there's third party options as well, payware at least, not sure about freebies. There is free software for manipulating icf files though. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software
Gordon, RTSystems has PAY ware for it that I feel works great and if you do ever have a problem there support is second to none. www.rtsystemsinc.com N6UYB Jack E. Foster - Original Message - From: J.Gordon Beattie, Jr., W2TTT To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 12:40 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-91AD programming and software Hi Folks! I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience programming an IC-91AD for D-Star either manually or with software? I have an IC-80AD and it is ok with the freebie ICOM software, but I don't know my options for the IC-91AD and would like to use common software, especially if I need to buy it. Thanks 73, Gordon Beattie, W2TTT 201.314.6964
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
That's good news. I've noticed Steve Ford has written small updates about news in the D-Star world from time to time, including references to node adapters, hotspots, etc. I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: nj902 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab http://www.arrl.org/news/new-d-star-repeater-now-in-place-in-arrl-laboratory
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
Correct Steve! KC1XX installed the first system's antenna at HQ. It was the 1.2G DV module only. A photo of the first install was also published in a current QST several years back with Matt on the tower. Thanks.Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / Trustee Sysop on D-Star for K8LCD AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics) from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan Always available at: i...@drsmesh.com See us on the web at: W8SS, W8SSS K8LCD all on QRZ.com and at drsmesh.com From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bosshardss Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:08 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab That would be the second installation at HQ - From 12/16/2005 ARRL Letter ==ARRL EXPERIMENTING WITH ICOM D-STAR DIGITAL SYSTEM Thanks to the generosity of Icom, MFJ and NCG (Comet), the ARRL has embarked on a project to learn firsthand what D-Star http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/techchar/ digital technology has to offer and to assess its capabilities in a real-world Amateur Radio For some reason the first repeater installed during the G1 software days never launched a gateway computer. Really glad to see the new installation take place. steve --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com , nj902 wb0...@... wrote: http://www.arrl.org/news/new-d-star-repeater-now-in-place-in-arrl-laboratory
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
How can you tell? -- Fran, W1FJM [image: Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/franmiele On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 12:37 PM, J. Moen j...@jwmoen.com wrote: That's good news. I've noticed Steve Ford has written small updates about news in the D-Star world from time to time, including references to node adapters, hotspots, etc. I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Jim - K6JM - Original Message - *From:* nj902 wb0...@arrl.net *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, September 03, 2010 4:26 PM *Subject:* [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab http://www.arrl.org/news/new-d-star-repeater-now-in-place-in-arrl-laboratory
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
Turns out DVTool for the DV Dongle does not show W1HQ in the list of Dplus-enabled gateways, but DVAR Hot Spot does. So I'm glad that I was apparently wrong about W1HQ. I am not within earshot of a D-Star repeater or I could just issue a link command to W1HQ and see if it succeeds. But based on DVAR, I suspect it will. Glad I was wrong. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Francis Miele To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab How can you tell? -- Fran, W1FJM On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 12:37 PM, J. Moen j...@jwmoen.com wrote: That's good news. I've noticed Steve Ford has written small updates about news in the D-Star world from time to time, including references to node adapters, hotspots, etc. I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: nj902 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab http://www.arrl.org/news/new-d-star-repeater-now-in-place-in-arrl-laboratory
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
Dplus does seem to be running on that gateway (From: http://dsyncg2.dstarusers.org/index.php?gw_status=W1HQ): W1HQ dsipsvd (root:2555) dsgwd (root:2534) postgres (postgres:2424) httpd (root:2450) java (root:2265) dplus (root:8996) named (named:1918) DSM ok (DSM= 2265 APRS=none running) Mem: 18MB Free, 249MB Total GW_VER=2.1 Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Francis Miele Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:41 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab How can you tell? -- Fran, W1FJM http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4705860669_03f33367ef_m.jpg http://www.miele-family.com/weather/wxgraphic.php?type=banner http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#%21/franmiele Facebook http://s.wisestamp.com/pixel.png?p=mozillav=2.0.1t=1283719195429u=413709 4e=985 On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 12:37 PM, J. Moen j...@jwmoen.com wrote: That's good news. I've noticed Steve Ford has written small updates about news in the D-Star world from time to time, including references to node adapters, hotspots, etc. I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: nj902 mailto:wb0...@arrl.net To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab http://www.arrl.org/news/new-d-star-repeater-now-in-place-in-arrl-laboratory
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
(top posting fixed) Jim K6JM wrote: I can see they are running D-Star Monitor, but I don't see evidence of DPlus. Am I missing something? Fran W1RJM wrote: How can you tell? http://dsync.dstarusers.org/index.php normally if there is an issue with dplus it will show in the box for the repeater ... like some are showing (in red): dplus = Not current or: dplus = Not Installed You can also get the details from the script: Scroll to the bottom - enter W1HQ into the callsign box click: Search History Status reported as of 2001-09-06 01:00:03 (script 2.0j) dsipsvd (root:2555) dsgwd (root:2534) postgres (postgres:2424) httpd (root:2450) java (root:2265) dplus (root:8996) named (named:1918) DSM ok (DSM= 2265 APRS=none running) Mem: 16MB Free, 249MB Total GW_VER=2.1 Bob McCormick W1QA
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
At 12:37 PM 9/5/2010, J. Moen wrote: That's good news. I've noticed Steve Ford has written small updates about news in the D-Star world from time to time, including references to node adapters, hotspots, etc. Back in the day, QST would have a regular column devoted to a significant new mode until that mode was well into the mainstream. That doesn't seem to be happening any more, or maybe D-STAR isn't significant enough yet. But they have run a few feature stories, including my Operating D-STAR back in 2008, when it was brand new to almost all of us. And my reviews of the IC-92 and ID-880, and the DVDongle, went well beyond standard radio reviews in length and depth to discuss the special features of D-STAR. So one way or another the ARRL and QST are giving D-STAR its due. I guess we'd all like to see more. 73, Gary KN4AQ ARVN: Amateur Radio//Video News Gary Pearce KN4AQ 508 Spencer Crest Ct. Cary, NC 27513 mailto:kn...@arvidionews.comkn...@arvideonews.com 919-380-9944 www.ARVideoNews.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
One reason I think Gary is new technologies didn't threaten established technologies like SSB and AM. Packet was a step ahead of RTTY - digi's etc. PSK has a weak signal niche apart from other technologies. Traditional FM and DSTAR is like comparing a typewriter to a word processor and resemble the AM / SSB days (even warbulators).. One thing is certain - the market will find it's own level. steve On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Gary Pearce KN4AQ kn...@arrl.net wrote: -- Wet birds never fly at night.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab
I won't live long enough to see it, but I fully expect digital voice radio of various forms to mostly replace analog, much as SSB mostly replaced AM. Imagine hams communicating by voice in 50 years. Yes, there will be AM, SSB and analog FM. D-Star may or may not survive. If it does, it will have been improved and incompatible with what we use today. But I feel certain voice will largely be digital, both on HF and VHF/UHF. Codecs for hams will improve over time. There'll be more useful high speed data, at least on VFH+. Things change, from spark on forward. And Hams will have fun every step of the way. And in 50 years they'll still be using CW. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Steve Bosshard (NU5D) To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] New D-Star repeater now in place in ARRL lab One reason I think Gary is new technologies didn't threaten established technologies like SSB and AM. Packet was a step ahead of RTTY - digi's etc. PSK has a weak signal niche apart from other technologies. Traditional FM and DSTAR is like comparing a typewriter to a word processor and resemble the AM / SSB days (even warbulators).. One thing is certain - the market will find it's own level. steve
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Scott: Yep, fine equipment can do wonderful things (the added dynamic range at 24 bit can be spectacular), but I rarely connect my IC-92AD to my Klipsch Forte II speakers. :) Chuck On 9/2/2010 9:12 PM, ZL1CHM wrote: I work in pro audio and can hear the difference in 16bit and 24bit. audio
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Probably have a drive level problem Chuck with an IC-92 directly driving audio to those Fortes anyhow‼‼‼ Thanks…Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / Trustee Sysop on D-Star for K8LCD AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics) from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan Always available at: i...@drsmesh.com ... See us on the web at: W8SS, W8SSS K8LCD all on QRZ.com and at drsmesh.com From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Scott Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 11:38 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Scott: Yep, fine equipment can do wonderful things (the added dynamic range at 24 bit can be spectacular), but I rarely connect my IC-92AD to my Klipsch Forte II speakers. :) Chuck On 9/2/2010 9:12 PM, ZL1CHM wrote: I work in pro audio and can hear the difference in 16bit and 24bit. audio
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Valahalla, NY
What is this? Freq, callsign ? Fran Signature -- Fran, W1FJM HTML clipboard http://www.miele-family.com/weather On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Alan G n2...@aol.com wrote: Understand WECA is working on Dstar installation. It would over a very large area. Bob
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Jim: I am first and foremost a CW op. Will always be such. That said, it is ALL fun and a learning experience. See: http://www.qrz.com/db/wb2mic 73, Jozef WB2MIC On 9/2/2010 23 45 Hours, J. Moen wrote: Jozef, I appreciate where you are coming from. I must say that while I enjoy D-Star and my internet-connected HotSpot, probably my favoriate activity is to take a small case with my Yaesu FT-817ND and my NUE-PSK PSK modem, along with a small, light 12v battery and a small portable vertical and go out to the fields and set up. Now when I talk to people all over the US with my 3 watts and absolutely no infrastructure, including the power company, I really like that. Both SSB and PSK in this mode are sweet. Well, I must admit to some infrastructure to charge the battery, though I have it on my wish list to get a portable solar panel for charging it. With that, I could go for months without leveraging other resources for communications. Now, when I'm home, I will sometimes crank up to about 600 watts with my modern stuff, or about 400 watts with my 1960 CE 100V with 1955 CE 600L and 1955 75A4. I'll also use the power company's electricity, and I'll even hook into the internet with my D-Star gmsk node adapter HotSpot. There is no one better way to ham, no one best mode. There is only what each of enjoys doing at some particular point in time. With any kind of luck, we learn and grow, but coming back to the wonderful old stuff is fun too. Jim - K6Jm - Original Message - *From:* Jozef mailto:jo...@metaphoria.org *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? D-Star, to me, will NEVER EVER, replace HF/SSB/CW and the thrill and romance of being able to communicate with another human being without any corporate infrastructure in-between. To give that up would be to surrender to those that control the infrastructure. I am not about to that, nor ever. D-Star is fun, fascinating, and useful. I like it. That said, there will be that nag that always irritates about it that says I am beholden to non-RF means to communicate. That is the nature of the D-Star phenomenon. So, I will put up with the QRM and the QRN and make those QSOs that actually require operator skill. For me, that is what defines ham radio. D-Star just slightly refines it, and, degrades it at the same time. JOzef attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
Gary: Well, it's kind of a Tim The Tool Man Taylor tendency I have. I did, however look at the Icom specs for the gateway system and it says 2.4 GHz and 512 MB, so I'm not even an order of magnitude over that, which would be the Tim thing to do. I also considered fan-less 12V computer boards, but for what I paid for these systems, I couldn't buy a new one of those boards. The nice thing about this system is that it has redundant supplies, BIOS, drive array, fans, and so on so it shouldn't go down with common failures. It also has integrated lights-out management, so I can can talk to it over the network even when it's shut down to restart it, reboot, or diagnose problems remotely. The other nice thing is that they show up regularly on E-Bay at prices less than a cheap PC at Walmart. (It's a DL385 G1.) If nothing else, I could chew up some CPU cycles doing s...@home or some such thing, but the IRLP computer did end up with a bunch of things running on it also, and I suspect this will be the same. I even thought of installing VMWare on it and running both the D-Star gateway and IRLP in separate virtual machines, but I'd have to get more memory in it to do that well. Chuck On 9/2/2010 4:50 PM, Gary wrote: Chuck, Since you have it lying around, and don't mind the power bill, might as well use it! I thought about using a ml350g2 I had, but wanted something that would run on 12v, have no moving parts, and use less power than the radios! We have a couple minor utilities running, the only thing that we had an issue with is the GUI (David indicated it kept trying to mount the GMSK board as a drive). We really haven't used it for anything else, and have no plans to, with the exception of putting a real SSL cert so users no longer have to deal with the warnings. Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ham Club Demonstration - W5AC B - TAMU Club Station
CORRECTION UR=/W5AC**B not C... On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 1:34 PM, bosshardss bossh...@gmail.com wrote: Sly N5GQB kapchinsk...@verizon.net and Mark W4ZFH w4...@yahoo.com are planning a demonstration of DSTAR for their local ARC tomorrow, Saturday, starting around 9:30 AM (Central Daylight Time). Route to UR=/W5AC**C or REF 4B to say hi to their club. DX stations welcome - posted by nu5d for n5gqb. steve
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ham Club Demonstration - W5AC B - TAMU Club Station
Where is this . county . state? -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bosshardss Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:35 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ham Club Demonstration - W5AC B - TAMU Club Station Sly N5GQB kapchinsk...@verizon.net mailto:kapchinskipc%40verizon.net and Mark W4ZFH w4...@yahoo.com mailto:w4zfh%40yahoo.com are planning a demonstration of DSTAR for their local ARC tomorrow, Saturday, starting around 9:30 AM (Central Daylight Time). Route to UR=/W5AC**C or REF 4B to say hi to their club. DX stations welcome - posted by nu5d for n5gqb. steve
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ham Club Demonstration - W5AC B - TAMU Club Station
Donald: From QRZ.COM *W5AC* TEXAS A M UNIVERSITY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB Attn 951420, PO BOX 5688 AGGIELAND STATI College Station, TX 77844-9081 USA On 9/3/2010 15 31 Hours, Donald James wrote: Where is this … county … state? -Original Message- *From:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *bosshardss *Sent:* Friday, September 03, 2010 2:35 PM *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ham Club Demonstration - W5AC B - TAMU Club Station Sly N5GQB kapchinsk...@verizon.net mailto:kapchinskipc%40verizon.net and Mark W4ZFH w4...@yahoo.com mailto:w4zfh%40yahoo.com are planning a demonstration of DSTAR for their local ARC tomorrow, Saturday, starting around 9:30 AM (Central Daylight Time). Route to UR=/W5AC**C or REF 4B to say hi to their club. DX stations welcome - posted by nu5d for n5gqb. steve attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
I work in pro audio and can hear the difference in 16bit and 24bit. audio Saying that, I also think 28bit would be overkill being CD audio is only 16bit. Perhaps what was meant was 28kbps as in mp3 audio 73 Scott zl1chm / n0hok - Original Message - From: Joel Koltner zapwire-gro...@yahoo.com To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:49 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Charles Scott csc...@... wrote: For voice communications, 28 bits would be beyond overkill. Even for music, while someone might put up a point-to-point microwave link or similar that happens to have that level of fidelity, I don't think there's any commercial music broadcast system in the world that comes anywhere close to that sort of SNR -- assuming levels and mixing have been done properly, there's no human being on the planet who can discern the difference between 28-bit music and 24- or 20-bit... and darned few who could even tell the difference at 16 bits! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5419 (20100902) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5419 (20100902) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5421 (20100903) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Hello Jim. Quite agree with all you say. Plus: the D-Star system I have now allows me to sit in the garden with a handheld running 100mW and speaking to someone AND being able to understand them, on the other side of the world. Yes I could fire up HF battle through the QRM, QRN and idiots and do the same thing but it's nice to have the option. The other thing that gives D-Star the green light is my wife thinks it's cool and she's not impressed with any other branch of the hobby. Thursday, September 2, 2010, 6:50:55 AM, you wrote: JM There is a lot of room in our hobby for many niche interests and JM points of view. I became a Ham in the late 1950s and while I JM started out on AM, I switched to SSB fairly soon after. I have JM always liked communications quality audio for voice JM communications. When I discovered a whole subculture of Hams JM interested in Extended SSB, I had trouble understanding why. I JM listen to some people with carefully adjusted equalizers that JM sound like they are transmitting from their bathroom, what with JM echos etc. But then I realized that as long as they don't hog the JM bandwidth when a band is busy, there is nothing wrong with them JM wanting something more than communications quality. JM JM I just expect them to respect my preference for narrower audio response over RF. JM JM I am thinking D-Star will probably not work out for John, and JM he'll decide to move on to other parts of Ham radio. Or he'll get JM involved in experimentation with other types of digital radio that JM may involve other vocoders and different design parameters (I JM wonder what Codec2 sounds like?). And if we all live long enough, JM we will probably see other DV standards evolve. I like to think JM that if we left the planet and came back in 50 years, the vast JM majority of Ham transmissions will be some form of digital. It's JM inevitable. For John's sake, let's hope he has some audio quality choices. JM JM In the meantime, I like D-Star audio just fine, since I'm able to JM understand what everyone is saying. JM JMJim - K6JM -- Best regards, JohnG8KVPmailto:k...@bigfoot.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
D-Star, to me, will NEVER EVER, replace HF/SSB/CW and the thrill and romance of being able to communicate with another human being without any corporate infrastructure in-between. To give that up would be to surrender to those that control the infrastructure. I am not about to that, nor ever. D-Star is fun, fascinating, and useful. I like it. That said, there will be that nag that always irritates about it that says I am beholden to non-RF means to communicate. That is the nature of the D-Star phenomenon. So, I will put up with the QRM and the QRN and make those QSOs that actually require operator skill. For me, that is what defines ham radio. D-Star just slightly refines it, and, degrades it at the same time. JOzef On 9/2/2010 02 50 Hours, John Parkins wrote: Hello Jim. Quite agree with all you say. Plus: the D-Star system I have now allows me to sit in the garden with a handheld running 100mW and speaking to someone AND being able to understand them, on the other side of the world. Yes I could fire up HF battle through the QRM, QRN and idiots and do the same thing but it's nice to have the option. The other thing that gives D-Star the green light is my wife thinks it's cool and she's not impressed with any other branch of the hobby. Thursday, September 2, 2010, 6:50:55 AM, you wrote: JM There is a lot of room in our hobby for many niche interests and JM points of view. I became a Ham in the late 1950s and while I JM started out on AM, I switched to SSB fairly soon after. I have JM always liked communications quality audio for voice JM communications. When I discovered a whole subculture of Hams JM interested in Extended SSB, I had trouble understanding why. I JM listen to some people with carefully adjusted equalizers that JM sound like they are transmitting from their bathroom, what with JM echos etc. But then I realized that as long as they don't hog the JM bandwidth when a band is busy, there is nothing wrong with them JM wanting something more than communications quality. JM JM I just expect them to respect my preference for narrower audio response over RF. JM JM I am thinking D-Star will probably not work out for John, and JM he'll decide to move on to other parts of Ham radio. Or he'll get JM involved in experimentation with other types of digital radio that JM may involve other vocoders and different design parameters (I JM wonder what Codec2 sounds like?). And if we all live long enough, JM we will probably see other DV standards evolve. I like to think JM that if we left the planet and came back in 50 years, the vast JM majority of Ham transmissions will be some form of digital. It's JM inevitable. For John's sake, let's hope he has some audio quality choices. JM JM In the meantime, I like D-Star audio just fine, since I'm able to JM understand what everyone is saying. JM JM Jim - K6JM -- Best regards, John G8KVP mailto:k...@bigfoot.com mailto:kvp%40bigfoot.com attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
There are other codecs and vocoders that provide better audio reproduction than AMBE. That's just a fact of life. There are some (EMBE) with worse characteristics. I do not enjoy using P25 for this reason, either in Amateur or public safety service. (In fact, I believe the poor audio reproduction of EMBE, coupled with its inherent lack of ambient audio noise immunity make it dangerous for public safety, too). I, too, suspect John won't stick with D-Star. That's too bad: There's a lot of development going on, and hi could likely find a home in improving things where we really can make changes. But the points made about interoperability are important. The vocoder used in D-STar isn't my favorite, but it IS burned in stone. Somewhere down the road someone will cobble up a software AMBE clone and offer it up and then we'll have a more configurable system, but even there, if we tweak the vocoder bit rate, it will no longer interoperate. When that happens, we'll have smething based on D-Star but it won't be D-Star. There are other aspects of Ham Radio to investigate and enjoy. I've wandered through Skywarn, microwave communications and antennas, HF and higher antennas, and 802.11 networking among other things. I still find ways to become excited by Ham radio. My current thing is D-Star, and while I'm not writing code for it, I've got a pretty good grasp of what it does, why, and how. And, I don't always agree with the why or how! What I don't have, however, is John's professional audio experience. If I did, I might have a similar opinion, that we could crank up the sampling and decoding rates and improve the audio. Since I do know something about how things work (and since I've looked at the networking side of D-Star), I respectfully disagree with John about how simple it'd be to enhance the audio. Sorry, it's not how things work on the startship. 73 gerry n5jxs J. Moen wrote: There is a lot of room in our hobby for many niche interests and points of view. I became a Ham in the late 1950s and while I started out on AM, I switched to SSB fairly soon after. I have always liked communications quality audio for voice communications. When I discovered a whole subculture of Hams interested in Extended SSB, I had trouble understanding why. I listen to some people with carefully adjusted equalizers that sound like they are transmitting from their bathroom, what with echos etc. But then I realized that as long as they don't hog the bandwidth when a band is busy, there is nothing wrong with them wanting something more than communications quality. I just expect them to respect my preference for narrower audio response over RF. I am thinking D-Star will probably not work out for John, and he'll decide to move on to other parts of Ham radio. Or he'll get involved in experimentation with other types of digital radio that may involve other vocoders and different design parameters (I wonder what Codec2 sounds like?). And if we all live long enough, we will probably see other DV standards evolve. I like to think that if we left the planet and came back in 50 years, the vast majority of Ham transmissions will be some form of digital. It's inevitable. For John's sake, let's hope he has some audio quality choices. In the meantime, I like D-Star audio just fine, since I'm able to understand what everyone is saying. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - *From:* n2gyn mailto:li...@gmx.net *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:19 PM *Subject:* [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? It's NOT a microphone issue. It's the small bit processing. I have been in Pro sound for most of my life. Their is NO WAY to get any quality at 8bit. This is unexceptionable to me! I rather listen to all the QRM and QRN in the world with analog. I am very surprise that their are not more people that feel this way. The bit rate has to be at lest 28bit to starting sounding acceptable. John -- Gerry Creager -- gerry.crea...@tamu.edu Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas AM University Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983 Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843 Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group,
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Don - Initially I agreed with your wife! Things have changed significantly in the last three years. Largely it depends which reflectors one monitors... Thanks.Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / 810-629-5500 AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics) from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan Always available at: i...@drsmesh.com See us on the Web at:drsmesh.com From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald James Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:35 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? This is funny! My wife is clearly a D-Star supporter as well. She's commented that she finds the exchanges more serious and technical and that it doesn't sound like a CB. And I too like using my 92AD on just 100mw and catching up with and staying in touch with friends in other cities and countries while I'm sitting on the couch, the back yard or in my office. These and several other things about D-Star make it very interesting and exciting for me. Donald ~ N2VU -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Parkins Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:51 AM To: J. Moen Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Hello Jim. Quite agree with all you say. Plus: the D-Star system I have now allows me to sit in the garden with a handheld running 100mW and speaking to someone AND being able to understand them, on the other side of the world. Yes I could fire up HF battle through the QRM, QRN and idiots and do the same thing but it's nice to have the option. The other thing that gives D-Star the green light is my wife thinks it's cool and she's not impressed with any other branch of the hobby.
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Joe, Elabourate, what are your observations, reflections can be good. Donald ~ N2VU -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Joeseph Mesh Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 9:25 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Don - Initially I agreed with your wife! Things have changed significantly in the last three years. Largely it depends which reflectors one monitors... Thanks.Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / 810-629-5500 AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics) from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan Always available at: i...@drsmesh.com See us on the Web at:drsmesh.com From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donald James Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:35 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? This is funny! My wife is clearly a D-Star supporter as well. She's commented that she finds the exchanges more serious and technical and that it doesn't sound like a CB. And I too like using my 92AD on just 100mw and catching up with and staying in touch with friends in other cities and countries while I'm sitting on the couch, the back yard or in my office. These and several other things about D-Star make it very interesting and exciting for me. Donald ~ N2VU -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Parkins Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:51 AM To: J. Moen Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Hello Jim. Quite agree with all you say. Plus: the D-Star system I have now allows me to sit in the garden with a handheld running 100mW and speaking to someone AND being able to understand them, on the other side of the world. Yes I could fire up HF battle through the QRM, QRN and idiots and do the same thing but it's nice to have the option. The other thing that gives D-Star the green light is my wife thinks it's cool and she's not impressed with any other branch of the hobby.
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Some respond to the challenge of acquiring the knowledge required to accomplish a remarkable feat of great distance and low power on HF... Others like it handed to them effortlessly with fidelity Which side one agrees with is a personal issue. Some say real men use their heads and learn to achieve on their own without the net - then they take great pride in the resulting accomplishment.The endorphins released are addicting to those. Others enjoy jumping on the new tech - sit back and relax - approach For me the excitement in D-Star resides in the improvement in DX mobile communications. In even the very best situation D-Star will NEVER reflect the magnitude of personal accomplishment seen on HF SSB in real radio relying on RF and knowledge... I got a QSL card today from Europe via D-Star... OK... But of what value is the signal report and distance? Just different Little more. Thanks.Joe / W8SS / Mesh Engineering / Trustee Sysop on D-Star for K8LCD AKA: Dr. Joe Mesh, D.M.D., C.A.G.S. (Prosthodontics) from beautiful downtown HELL, Michigan Always available at: i...@drsmesh.com ... See us on the web at: W8SS, W8SSS K8LCD all on QRZ.com and at drsmesh.com From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Parkins Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:51 AM To: J. Moen Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Hello Jim. Quite agree with all you say. Plus: the D-Star system I have now allows me to sit in the garden with a handheld running 100mW and speaking to someone AND being able to understand them, on the other side of the world. Yes I could fire up HF battle through the QRM, QRN and idiots and do the same thing but it's nice to have the option. The other thing that gives D-Star the green light is my wife thinks it's cool and she's not impressed with any other branch of the hobby. Thursday, September 2, 2010, 6:50:55 AM, you wrote: JM There is a lot of room in our hobby for many niche interests and JM points of view. I became a Ham in the late 1950s and while I JM started out on AM, I switched to SSB fairly soon after. I have JM always liked communications quality audio for voice JM communications. When I discovered a whole subculture of Hams JM interested in Extended SSB, I had trouble understanding why. I JM listen to some people with carefully adjusted equalizers that JM sound like they are transmitting from their bathroom, what with JM echos etc. But then I realized that as long as they don't hog the JM bandwidth when a band is busy, there is nothing wrong with them JM wanting something more than communications quality. JM JM I just expect them to respect my preference for narrower audio response over RF. JM JM I am thinking D-Star will probably not work out for John, and JM he'll decide to move on to other parts of Ham radio. Or he'll get JM involved in experimentation with other types of digital radio that JM may involve other vocoders and different design parameters (I JM wonder what Codec2 sounds like?). And if we all live long enough, JM we will probably see other DV standards evolve. I like to think JM that if we left the planet and came back in 50 years, the vast JM majority of Ham transmissions will be some form of digital. It's JM inevitable. For John's sake, let's hope he has some audio quality choices. JM JM In the meantime, I like D-Star audio just fine, since I'm able to JM understand what everyone is saying. JM JM Jim - K6JM -- Best regards, John G8KVP mailto:k...@bigfoot.com mailto:kvp%40bigfoot.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Like fishing - it's not necessarily how big the bites are, but how fast they are biting - a combination of sample size and rate - seems like there is a rule that sample rate must be twice the highest frequency being digitized - for me the test would be with or without hearing aids. steve On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Joel Koltner zapwire-gro...@yahoo.comwrote: --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Charles Scott csc...@... wrote: For voice communications, 28 bits would be beyond overkill. Wet birds never fly at night.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Hello Jozef, Read the post. No where did I say I would give up HF in favour of D-Star, I said it's nice to have the option of either. When I want to sit in the garden and have a beer and a chat with someone on the other side of the world D-Star is the way to go. When I want to work DX then I go to the shack, fire up HF, put down the beer and concentrate. Thursday, September 2, 2010, 9:44:59 AM, you wrote: J D-Star, to me, will NEVER EVER, replace HF/SSB/CW and the thrill and J romance of being able to communicate with another human being without J any corporate infrastructure in-between. To give that up would be to J surrender to those that control the infrastructure. I am not about to J that, nor ever. D-Star is fun, fascinating, and useful. I like it. That J said, there will be that nag that always irritates about it that says I J am beholden to non-RF means to communicate. That is the nature of the J D-Star phenomenon. So, I will put up with the QRM and the QRN and make J those QSOs that actually require operator skill. For me, that is what J defines ham radio. D-Star just slightly refines it, and, degrades it at J the same time. J JOzef -- Best regards, Johnmailto:k...@bigfoot.com Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On Sep 2, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: Like fishing - it's not necessarily how big the bites are, but how fast they are biting - a combination of sample size and rate - seems like there is a rule that sample rate must be twice the highest frequency being digitized - for me the test would be with or without hearing aids. steve On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Joel Koltner zapwire-gro...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Charles Scott csc...@... wrote: For voice communications, 28 bits would be beyond overkill. Wet birds never fly at night. AMBE beats the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem by not just simply sampling the audio. It takes pre-sampled audio (say 8 KHz. sample rate), analyzes it, and sends a series of codes that characterize the original waveform but throws away the whole original samples. On the receive end the AMBE algorithm uses those codes to totally synthesize a new wave form that mathematically approximates the original waveform. That is why we can get communications quality audio in 2400 bps (or possibly 1200 bps in their newer low rate (LR) chips). So the Analog to Digital is going to be something like 8000 samples per second, but what the AMBE chip outputs is totally different and at 2400 bps (plus FEC). A short explanation of sampling rates can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_rate Interestingly, when I was in the Air Force (1980-1984) I worked on a project for digitized imaging and in pure grayscale 5-bits was about all a human could discern. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
No where did I imply that you said you would give up HF. :) Differing aspects of amateur radio have their place. That's what makes it, in my opinion, the hobby I never grow tired of. Been pounding brass for almost 47 years now. CW will still be here 47 more years from now. D-Star will most likely yield to something else - which fine and dandy. CU on 160 this winter. 73, Jozef WB2MIC On 9/2/2010 12 32 Hours, John Parkins wrote: Hello Jozef, Read the post. No where did I say I would give up HF in favour of D-Star, I said it's nice to have the option of either. When I want to sit in the garden and have a beer and a chat with someone on the other side of the world D-Star is the way to go. When I want to work DX then I go to the shack, fire up HF, put down the beer and concentrate. Thursday, September 2, 2010, 9:44:59 AM, you wrote: JD-Star, to me, will NEVER EVER, replace HF/SSB/CW and the thrill and J romance of being able to communicate with another human being without J any corporate infrastructure in-between. To give that up would be to J surrender to those that control the infrastructure. I am not about to J that, nor ever. D-Star is fun, fascinating, and useful. I like it. That J said, there will be that nag that always irritates about it that says I J am beholden to non-RF means to communicate. That is the nature of the J D-Star phenomenon. So, I will put up with the QRM and the QRN and make J those QSOs that actually require operator skill. For me, that is what J defines ham radio. D-Star just slightly refines it, and, degrades it at J the same time. J JOzef attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On Sep 2, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: Like fishing - it's not necessarily how big the bites are, but how fast they are biting - a combination of sample size and rate - seems like there is a rule that sample rate must be twice the highest frequency being digitized - for me the test would be with or without hearing aids. steve On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Joel Koltner zapwire-gro...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Charles Scott csc...@... wrote: For voice communications, 28 bits would be beyond overkill. Wet birds never fly at night. AMBE beats the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem by not just simply sampling the audio. It takes pre-sampled audio (say 8 KHz. sample rate), analyzes it, and sends a series of codes that characterize the original waveform but throws away the whole original samples. On the receive end the AMBE algorithm uses those codes to totally synthesize a new wave form that mathematically approximates the original waveform. That is why we can get communications quality audio in 2400 bps (or possibly 1200 bps in their newer low rate (LR) chips). So the Analog to Digital is going to be something like 8000 samples per second, but what the AMBE chip outputs is totally different and at 2400 bps (plus FEC). A short explanation of sampling rates can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_rate Interestingly, when I was in the Air Force (1980-1984) I worked on a project for digitized imaging and in pure grayscale 5-bits was about all a human could discern. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On Sep 2, 2010, at 6:36 AM, Dr. Joeseph Mesh wrote: Some respond to the challenge of acquiring the “knowledge required” to accomplish a remarkable feat of great distance and low power on HF... Others like it handed to them effortlessly with fidelity Which side one agrees with is a personal issue. Some say “real men” use their heads and learn to achieve on their own without the net - then they take great pride in the resulting accomplishment.The endorphins released are addicting to those. Others enjoy jumping on the “new tech” - sit back and relax - approach For me the excitement in D-Star resides in the improvement in DX mobile communications. In even the very best situation D-Star will NEVER reflect the magnitude of personal accomplishment seen on HF SSB in “real radio” relying on RF and knowledge... I got a QSL card today from Europe via D-Star... OK... But of what value is the signal report and distance? Just different Little more. Don't forget, the infrastructure of D-STAR is useful, but there is such a thing as simplex D-STAR with all the challenges and rewards as any other RF based communications. On VHF/UHF we can see who is able to get EME D-STAR, on HF we can see who sets new mode DX (IC-9100 does 10 meters, but in some parts of the world there are fewer mode restrictions and even the US rules seem to allow for Phone in bandwidth and modulation index of D-STAR on other HF bands - and some hams have tried it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlIqpedYsYM ) John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
Gary All: It's funny how these things go. No sooner did I put the question on this list than I realized we have a spare HP DL385 with a dual-core AMD 2.2 GHz processor, 2GB RAM, and 2x72 GB 10K SCSI drives sitting here at work doing nothing. Even has dual supplies and the additional fans along with lights-out management. Should be perfect for a site I can't get to 6 months of the year. The AMD processor should do fine in 32-bit i386 compatibility mode. It also has DVD, USB and I believe two slots open for cards. Since I'm a Linux guy, there's no telling what I might want to do with the horsepower once it's installed. Anything that might trip me up here? Are there going to be restrictions on what I can run on the gateway system? Chuck - N8DNX On 9/2/2010 2:38 PM, Gary wrote: Chuck, We run the G4ULF system on a Via C7 mini ITX board, 1GB ram, and a 8GB CF card as the HD. The CPU never gets much usage, and it has no moving parts. Only 1 Ethernet port is required. It runs on CentOS. The system cost less than $150 to build, including case. Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
On Sep 2, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Gary wrote: We really haven’t used it for anything else, and have no plans to, with the exception of putting a real SSL cert so users no longer have to deal with the warnings. You know that Robin (AA4RC) has purchased a wildcard for dstargateway.net and provides SSL certificates free in the form of CALLSIGN.dstargateway.net (e.g wg2msk.dstargateway.net) for the asking ... tell him the CNAME or A record you need created. If you are using Dynamic DNS because of a non-static IP, just use one of the free Dynamic DNS services and have him create a CNAME record. Turn around is quite fast. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
John, WOW! That is interesting, and I did not know. So instead of dstar.wg2msk.sidigital.org via DDNS, I can use his, and get a SSL cert? This does point to the one problem I have with D-Star. Information fragmentation, it's all over the place, one group for this, another for that, etc. What group is for Dplus? Thank You so much! Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Hays Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:08 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements On Sep 2, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Gary wrote: We really haven't used it for anything else, and have no plans to, with the exception of putting a real SSL cert so users no longer have to deal with the warnings. You know that Robin (AA4RC) has purchased a wildcard for dstargateway.net and provides SSL certificates free in the form of CALLSIGN.dstargateway.net (e.g wg2msk.dstargateway.net) for the asking ... tell him the CNAME or A record you need created. If you are using Dynamic DNS because of a non-static IP, just use one of the free Dynamic DNS services and have him create a CNAME record. Turn around is quite fast. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Gateway / NI-Star System Requirements
On Sep 2, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Gary wrote: John, WOW! That is interesting, and I did not know. So instead of dstar.wg2msk.sidigital.org via DDNS, I can use his, and get a SSL cert? Yup, just ask him for a CNAME for WG2MSK pointing to dstar.wg2msk.sidigital.org and a cert. This does point to the one problem I have with D-Star. Information fragmentation, it’s all over the place, one group for this, another for that, etc. What group is for Dplus? Yup --- there isn't a separate DPLUS that I know of, but dstar-gateway on Yahoo! is where a lot of these questions are handled. Thank You so much! Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On 9/2/2010 3:30 PM, n2gyn wrote: Well, I thank everyone for their comments and Technical info. I think because of my trained ear it makes it harder to deal with the robot sound. It reminds me of effects processing. One thing that puzzles me is, why some stations sound less robotic then others. Why is that?? I am not looking for HIFI sound quality, just a more natural sound. I feel like I am talking to a computer instead of a real person. Very impersonal. Thanks to all again for your comments. John My experience is that most D-STAR stations do not sound like robots. It is not the pure note of analog, but certainly quite smooth and clear. Perhaps you have some multipath, or other issue that is causing a just enough bit errors that the AMBE chip is not quite able to correct them all. Have you been able to try D-STAR simplex on a short and clear path? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org sip:j...@hays.org mailto:j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
Jozef, I appreciate where you are coming from. I must say that while I enjoy D-Star and my internet-connected HotSpot, probably my favoriate activity is to take a small case with my Yaesu FT-817ND and my NUE-PSK PSK modem, along with a small, light 12v battery and a small portable vertical and go out to the fields and set up. Now when I talk to people all over the US with my 3 watts and absolutely no infrastructure, including the power company, I really like that. Both SSB and PSK in this mode are sweet. Well, I must admit to some infrastructure to charge the battery, though I have it on my wish list to get a portable solar panel for charging it. With that, I could go for months without leveraging other resources for communications. Now, when I'm home, I will sometimes crank up to about 600 watts with my modern stuff, or about 400 watts with my 1960 CE 100V with 1955 CE 600L and 1955 75A4. I'll also use the power company's electricity, and I'll even hook into the internet with my D-Star gmsk node adapter HotSpot. There is no one better way to ham, no one best mode. There is only what each of enjoys doing at some particular point in time. With any kind of luck, we learn and grow, but coming back to the wonderful old stuff is fun too. Jim - K6Jm - Original Message - From: Jozef To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? D-Star, to me, will NEVER EVER, replace HF/SSB/CW and the thrill and romance of being able to communicate with another human being without any corporate infrastructure in-between. To give that up would be to surrender to those that control the infrastructure. I am not about to that, nor ever. D-Star is fun, fascinating, and useful. I like it. That said, there will be that nag that always irritates about it that says I am beholden to non-RF means to communicate. That is the nature of the D-Star phenomenon. So, I will put up with the QRM and the QRN and make those QSOs that actually require operator skill. For me, that is what defines ham radio. D-Star just slightly refines it, and, degrades it at the same time. JOzef
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
If you change the vocoder, doesn't that mean that everyone else will have to as well, or else you will be off by your lonesome ? But I may be wrong...steve n2gyn wrote: Thank you all for you reply and comments. -- Ham Radio Spoken Here !!! EM11ma - South Mountain, Texas
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
There are likely two possible areas for improvement and one where improvement is likely impossible. Some radios seem to have better transmit audio than others. Many people find the IC-2200 very good while many people find the ID-880 very bad. Possible the receive audio could also be improved by some additional audio processing. Much of the poor quality in DStar can be attributed to the AMBE Vocoder. This is a very complex algorythm that converts a high bit-rate voice data stream into a very low bit-rate data stream. By its very nature this is a lossy process. Removing bits must reduce the information content of the data. AMBE attempts to maximize the bit-rate while maintaining 'acceptable' audio quality. Some people may find the resulting sound unacceptable. Much like the battles over vinyl vd CD vs MP3 and tubes vs solid state in the music world, some ears are very sensitive to the aural content while others are quite insensitive. In a search to find a better sound for my 880, I contacted Bob, AB5N, who sells upgrades to a vatiety on ham microphones hoping he could provide a solution. below is his response. I hope it helps explain the problem. 73, Ted W1GRI Ted- We have a conundrum here. Most people buy the ID-880H to use it on D-Star. Otherwise they would just buy a less-expensive rig. D-Star is a extremely compressed digital voice mode. They don't want to digitize any audio that isn't directly responsible for intelligibility. That passband is 300-3000... the old telephone response. Any audio that is outside that range would just be wasting bits encoding sound that does not help you understand what is being said. So, the mic audio is tailored narrowly to that passband for D-Star in the radio. Problem is, on FM, it sounds light at the bottom. If it was me, I would have had separate mic EQ circuits switched in for each mode. Thus, if we change the mic response curve to un-do what the mic pre-amp EQ's are doing, D-Star will go down the drain. Digital distortion is horrible. I've tried this experiment with my ID-800. I had to remove the new element and go stock again. As well, Icom engineers have always felt that their radios should have communications-grade audio. None of their FM radios sound as pleasing as say a Yaesu FM mobile (totally analog radios). When you go to an Icom like a IC-7000, it is like comparing a vinyl record with a MP3. So, for radios that use the 133 or 131 - which do not have D-Star, indeed my mic element gives a very nice improvement. Uh oh... major storm here...tornado warnings.. I better unplug the router and laptop. Hope that clears it up... I wish I could help! Bob-AB5N _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 14:27 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Thank you all for you reply and comments. Let me make myself clearer. I would like to see the audio quality of D-Star be improved. To MY ears' everyone sound like a robot. I thought this was due to the low bit rate. I am NOT impressed with the digital voice mode. I want to hear a more natural sounding voice. My telephone sounds better. How could this be achieved if not by bit rate? John --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com , Ted Wrobel twro...@... wrote: Hi John, Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the DStar data stream. The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a 9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per second. The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot. It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth) possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable. In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified at any stage of the process without making the resulting stream unrecognizable to other DStar systems. Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the chain from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at 9600. 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 16:54 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate? Most radios are sent to 8bit. Can all radio's bit rate be changed? I believe it is the LOW
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
John, Try plugging a better quality speaker into the radio. I personally find this does wonders to increase fidelity. Icom should be ashamed of the speakers in the D-Star HT's. I'm not sure, but there also may be something else going on as well. If I set up my 80 or 880 and connect to a reflector and do the same with the ID-1 using the same speaker, the fidelity improves big time with the 80 and 880 but the ID-1 still sounds much better (and the RF signal is much weaker). Gary KB2BSL WG2MSK repeater From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 2:27 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? Thank you all for you reply and comments. Let me make myself clearer. I would like to see the audio quality of D-Star be improved. To MY ears' everyone sound like a robot. I thought this was due to the low bit rate. I am NOT impressed with the digital voice mode. I want to hear a more natural sounding voice. My telephone sounds better. How could this be achieved if not by bit rate? John --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com , Ted Wrobel twro...@... wrote: Hi John, Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the DStar data stream. The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a 9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per second. The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot. It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth) possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable. In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified at any stage of the process without making the resulting stream unrecognizable to other DStar systems. Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the chain from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at 9600. 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 16:54 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate? Most radios are sent to 8bit. Can all radio's bit rate be changed? I believe it is the LOW bit rate that lowers the quality of d-star's audio. Is there a sub menu in the radio's. Also can the repeater's rate be change to a higher rate? John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
If the bit rate is faster, is not the signal wider as well? Would we be sacrificing a narrow band mode to achieve a faster bit rate? Digital TV looks and sounds great but the signal width is awesome! Those who think SSB can be improved and achieve a broadcast-quality signal by adding audio processors are also widening their signals on the band. As someone else has already mentioned, it might take a complete overhaul of the vocoder, rendering everyone's current radio obsolete. However, I agree with you in some respects. I wish the audio coming from the radio were better and not so tinny-sounding. I have improved the audio quality more to my liking by adding an external speaker with good low frequency response. It makes a big difference especially as I have some high frequency hearing loss from my years in the military. 73 de Tim, AF1G n2gyn li...@gmx.net wrote: = Thank you all for you reply and comments. Let me make myself clearer. I would like to see the audio quality of D-Star be improved. To MY ears' everyone sound like a robot. I thought this was due to the low bit rate. I am NOT impressed with the digital voice mode. I want to hear a more natural sounding voice. My telephone sounds better. How could this be achieved if not by bit rate? John --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, Ted Wrobel twro...@... wrote: Hi John, Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the DStar data stream. The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a 9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per second. The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot. It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth) possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable. In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified at any stage of the process without making the resulting stream unrecognizable to other DStar systems. Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the chain from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at 9600. 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 16:54 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate? Most radios are sent to 8bit. Can all radio's bit rate be changed? I believe it is the LOW bit rate that lowers the quality of d-star's audio. Is there a sub menu in the radio's. Also can the repeater's rate be change to a higher rate? John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
John, D-STAR has a very specific standard for the on air digital voice signal. The signal rate must be 4800 bps (to achieve 6.25khz. bandwidth). Any variance from that rate and you have broken the standard and would be incompatible with D-STAR. The specification also requires the use of AMBE vocoder technology. The specification also requires the use of the 3600 bps encoding (2400 bps voice + 1200 bps forward error correction or FEC) and any other values would be incompatible even though the AMBE vocoder can be run at other rates and voice to FEC ratios. After you use 3600 bps for voice+FEC, there is an additional 1200 bps that is used for protocol addressing and various user defined data components (Icom has added some useful extensions in that space, GPS, Short Text, some protocol redundancy). To move outside of these standards is certainly within the realm of amateur radio and amateur radio experimentation but D-STAR is very defined, by the JARL, as to what can be done. If one wants a higher fidelity voice signal, then one is free and encouraged to experiment, but it won't be D-STAR and won't be able to take advantage of the D- STAR infrastructure. Certainly the manufacturer of AMBE technology works to improve the encoding and decoding of voice and could possibly come up with new generations of chips to fit the D-STAR parameters, but they would have to be backward compatible for acceptance in the market. The final sound of the AMBE signal after decoding is not an exact, high fidelity, reproduction of the original voice encoding, but for the sake of communicating intelligence it works very well (assuming the speaker is speaking intelligently :) ). Different people have different perspectives on that audio, for example, one local ham finds the AMBE processed voice easier to listen to due to his specific hearing ability. There are some in the hobby that would go for FM broadcast quality fidelity, but it is terribly inefficient from a spectrum point of view. Higher encoding bit rates could provide higher fidelity, for example Sirius digital satellite radio uses AMBE as well, but again it would be at the sacrifice of bandwidth for what is a communications service that does not need the fidelity and musicality of an entertainment service. AMBE is a registered trademark of Digital Voice Systems, Inc. D-STAR is a trademark of the JARL (in Japan) and a registered trademark of Icom in the US and several other markets. On Sep 1, 2010, at 11:26 AM, n2gyn wrote: Thank you all for you reply and comments. Let me make myself clearer. I would like to see the audio quality of D-Star be improved. To MY ears' everyone sound like a robot. I thought this was due to the low bit rate. I am NOT impressed with the digital voice mode. I want to hear a more natural sounding voice. My telephone sounds better. How could this be achieved if not by bit rate? John John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
At 05:05 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: John, Try plugging a better quality speaker into the radio. I personally find this does wonders to increase fidelity. Icom should be ashamed of the speakers in the D-Star HT's. A better quality speaker certainly works, as anyone who's listened to a DV Dongle on PC speakers can attest to. Actually, I find the quality of the audio of my 91AD is very good (for a HT), only complaint is there's not enough of it for some environments. As for the robotic sound, well, we're stuck with it. The whole point of speech codecs is to literally throw away anything that's not directly contributing to intelligibility, to reduce the bitrate. There is a tradeoff here between bitrate and fidelity. AMBE is designed to achieve very low bitrates, so it's not going to sound very natural. My own view of D-STAR audio is that while it doesn't sound natural, I find it very intelligible, often more so than FM in the real world (where there's a lot of poorly adjusted radios and radios with wonky audio response). I'm also able to recognise who is speaking, so enough of the voice is preserved to allow that. The AMBE vocoder excels at what it sets out to do in my opinion - provide communications grade speech at very low bitrates. I'm not sure, but there also may be something else going on as well. If I set up my 80 or 880 and connect to a reflector and do the same with the ID-1 using the same speaker, the fidelity improves big time with the 80 and 880 but the ID-1 still sounds much better (and the RF signal is much weaker). Different radios will have different audio responses. RF signal strength is largely irrelevant in D-STAR, until the bit error rate starts to increase significantly to the point that the FEC has trouble correcting those errors. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
IMHO the robotic sound is not going away with D-Star. Of course the D-Star radios have standard FM which you can use. If you decide to sell the 91AD rest assured that it will be bought by someone quickly. On 9/1/2010 18 43 Hours, n2gyn wrote: I guess I just can not live with the robotic sound. This is unacceptable in this world of technology. I am trying to find away around this before I dump the whole D-Star thing. John PS: I also have a 91AD --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com, Tony Langdon vk3...@... wrote: At 05:05 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: John, Try plugging a better quality speaker into the radio. I personally find this does wonders to increase fidelity. Icom should be ashamed of the speakers in the D-Star HT's. A better quality speaker certainly works, as anyone who's listened to a DV Dongle on PC speakers can attest to. Actually, I find the quality of the audio of my 91AD is very good (for a HT), only complaint is there's not enough of it for some environments. As for the robotic sound, well, we're stuck with it. The whole point of speech codecs is to literally throw away anything that's not directly contributing to intelligibility, to reduce the bitrate. There is a tradeoff here between bitrate and fidelity. AMBE is designed to achieve very low bitrates, so it's not going to sound very natural. My own view of D-STAR audio is that while it doesn't sound natural, I find it very intelligible, often more so than FM in the real world (where there's a lot of poorly adjusted radios and radios with wonky audio response). I'm also able to recognise who is speaking, so enough of the voice is preserved to allow that. The AMBE vocoder excels at what it sets out to do in my opinion - provide communications grade speech at very low bitrates. I'm not sure, but there also may be something else going on as well. If I set up my 80 or 880 and connect to a reflector and do the same with the ID-1 using the same speaker, the fidelity improves big time with the 80 and 880 but the ID-1 still sounds much better (and the RF signal is much weaker). Different radios will have different audio responses. RF signal strength is largely irrelevant in D-STAR, until the bit error rate starts to increase significantly to the point that the FEC has trouble correcting those errors. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com attachment: jozef.vcf
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On Sep 1, 2010, at 3:19 PM, n2gyn wrote: It's NOT a microphone issue. It's the small bit processing. I have been in Pro sound for most of my life. Their is NO WAY to get any quality at 8bit. This is unexceptionable to me! I rather listen to all the QRM and QRN in the world with analog. I am very surprise that their are not more people that feel this way. The bit rate has to be at lest 28bit to starting sounding acceptable. John It isn't a microphone issue (nor is it an 8 bit A/D issue) -- AMBE is not a simple A/D waveform sampler, it examines the complex signal and encodes hints via a codebook to reproduce the waveform, that is how it gets its amazing compression. This is not an apples to apples comparison. The sample rate and number of bits per sample are important to providing a good input signal but the chip really is looking for 8 Khz (16-bit linear, ųlaw, or alaw -- optionally 32Khz using AD 73311 -- see http://www.dvsinc.com/manuals/ AMBE-2020_manual.pdf Page 39) and puts out the same, but in between it doesn't resemble anything close to a bit sampler. Anything one knows about sample rates and size (in bits) is largely irrelevant as the limiting factor is the AMBE algorithm and its lookup codebook. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Multi-Band_Excitation John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
John: Actually, it's neither. 8 bits is actually sufficient to reproduce fairly low distortion audio, given a good sample rate, but with limited dynamic range. Since communication quality audio doesn't require much dynamic range, that's not a problem. I don't believe the fact that it's an 8 bit quantization is much of a factor in the quality of the resulting communications and I don't think there's much reason to go beyond 8 bits. Being in pro sound is clearly biasing your perspective on this. I certainly wouldn't want an 8 bit music system, but for communications, I think it's fine. For voice communications, 28 bits would be beyond overkill. The real issue is the data compression technology, which compromises sound quality to limit data bandwidth. Still, I've heard some pretty acceptable D-Star audio from good stations with good signals. It's not live, but that's not the point. If you feel a need for high quality audio Hamming, I suggest you visit with the guys that hang out around 14.180 KHz. (Is that the frequency?). Chuck - N8DNX On 9/1/2010 6:19 PM, n2gyn wrote: It's NOT a microphone issue. It's the small bit processing. I have been in Pro sound for most of my life. Their is NO WAY to get any quality at 8bit. This is unexceptionable to me! I rather listen to all the QRM and QRN in the world with analog. I am very surprise that their are not more people that feel this way. The bit rate has to be at lest 28bit to starting sounding acceptable. John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
At 08:43 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: I guess I just can not live with the robotic sound. This is unacceptable in this world of technology. I am trying to find away around this before I dump the whole D-Star thing. As stated, fidelity is not the point of D-STAR. It's voice/data communications using the minimum feasible bandwidth. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
On Sep 1, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Tony Langdon wrote: As stated, fidelity is not the point of D-STAR. It's voice/data communications using the minimum feasible bandwidth. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com And for the HF DV experimenter it looks like DVSI now has a chip to do 1200 or 1800 bps (no FEC) AMBE. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
AMEN! It's COMMUNICATIONS QUALITY audio. not high fidelity! 73, Mike WM4B From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Langdon Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 7:54 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? As stated, fidelity is not the point of D-STAR. It's voice/data communications using the minimum feasible bandwidth. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
At 10:16 AM 9/2/2010, you wrote: And for the HF DV experimenter it looks like DVSI now has a chip to do 1200 or 1800 bps (no FEC) AMBE. Hmm, maybe room for a HF dongle for experimenters. :) Of course, a pure software vocoder has its advantages, but there's room to try different approaches. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate?
There is a lot of room in our hobby for many niche interests and points of view. I became a Ham in the late 1950s and while I started out on AM, I switched to SSB fairly soon after. I have always liked communications quality audio for voice communications. When I discovered a whole subculture of Hams interested in Extended SSB, I had trouble understanding why. I listen to some people with carefully adjusted equalizers that sound like they are transmitting from their bathroom, what with echos etc. But then I realized that as long as they don't hog the bandwidth when a band is busy, there is nothing wrong with them wanting something more than communications quality. I just expect them to respect my preference for narrower audio response over RF. I am thinking D-Star will probably not work out for John, and he'll decide to move on to other parts of Ham radio. Or he'll get involved in experimentation with other types of digital radio that may involve other vocoders and different design parameters (I wonder what Codec2 sounds like?). And if we all live long enough, we will probably see other DV standards evolve. I like to think that if we left the planet and came back in 50 years, the vast majority of Ham transmissions will be some form of digital. It's inevitable. For John's sake, let's hope he has some audio quality choices. In the meantime, I like D-Star audio just fine, since I'm able to understand what everyone is saying. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: n2gyn To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Bit Rate? It's NOT a microphone issue. It's the small bit processing. I have been in Pro sound for most of my life. Their is NO WAY to get any quality at 8bit. This is unexceptionable to me! I rather listen to all the QRM and QRN in the world with analog. I am very surprise that their are not more people that feel this way. The bit rate has to be at lest 28bit to starting sounding acceptable. John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star HotSpot Information Needed
The good news is it's really easy to get a HotSpot up and running. I purchased an assembled board (NQSMHS) from Mark Phillips G7LTT/NI2O in New Jersey, US. I was lazy so bought the radio cable from him, though I later made one up quite easily for another HotSpot. I hooked this up to a spare analog radio that had been in the closet (KW TM-D700A). I documented the setup procedures at http://www.k6jm.com/hs-setup.htm -- mainly for myself for when I did the next HotSpot, but I've had some nice feedback from others who've used it. Depending on what spare equipment you have available, the incremental cost to put up a HotSpot can be quite inexpensive. If you don't have a radio rated for continuous transmit service, it's best to run it at lower power and perhaps with extra cooling. I run my D700A at 5 watts, which gets me out about 15 miles in directions where the terrain is flat. I have run it at 10 watts but don't need that much power. Remember that nets like Connie's Sunday night Ozark Mountain net can generate over 2 1/2 hours of continuous transmit, if you happen to be linked to a reflector that carries that net. Bottom line -- this stuff is ready for prime time. You do need a radio that allows access to the dicriminator output and bypasses filtering on the TX input -- generally radios with a 9600 data port easily allow that. If you have an unusual radio, check with the folks on the gmsk_dv_node Yahoo group -- someone there may have already gotten that radio to work with the hotspot board. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: ka3fzo To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:36 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star HotSpot Information Needed Thanks for taking the time to read this post. We are looking to establish a D-Star HotSpot at our local EOC. I am looking for information regarding what we wil need to do so. Our county wants to utilize the D-Star system, but due to financial issues we are limited to how we must approach this extra tool for our communications system. Based upon what I have read and heard, a HotSpot, connected to a good antenna system, radio and internet connection can bridge the gap for our area. We are about 30 miles to the nearest D-Star systems and those with D-Star locally, as well as those mobiling through the area,(we are about 2 miles off the Interstate 10), could use the HotSpot to reach one of the surrounding systems. Anyway, this is our hopes as I understand the system. Any and all input and advice will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Gary - KA3FZO
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate?
Hi John, Not quite sure what you are thinking, but here is a brief overview of the DStar data stream. The input to / output from the data processing 'module' of the radio is a 9600 Baud stream - which equates to roughly 960 eight bit characters per second. The logic of the system digitizes the voice in and passes it to the AMBE Vocoder that compresses the data stream - a lot. It is the compresion by the Vocoder that is both the strength and weakness of DStar. The compression makes a low data rate (and thus low bandwidth) possible, but it also means that the re-constituted voice is an approximation of the voice input. Generally the reconstructed voice is pretty good, and given the bandwidth it is really quite remarkable. In any case, the baud rate of the system is fixed and cannot be modified at any stage of the process without making the resulting stream unrecognizable to other DStar systems. Note that the data rate over the internet can be much higher, but the chain from repeater controller to / from the radio is fixed for DV comms at 9600. 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n2gyn Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 16:54 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Bit Rate? Most radios are sent to 8bit. Can all radio's bit rate be changed? I believe it is the LOW bit rate that lowers the quality of d-star's audio. Is there a sub menu in the radio's. Also can the repeater's rate be change to a higher rate? John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A
Mike, you might try putting the 710 in packet mode to make sure that it is seeing a signal on the 9600 baud port. Don WB5EKU On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.netwrote: Anybody using the above combination? I got my NQSMHS build over the weekend and tried getting things running today but cannot get rid of the R2D2 on Echotest. I've been the full range of adjustment on the data terminal input and output levels via the MCP-2A software and have carefully adjusted the RX and TX pots at each setting, but still get far too much R2D2. RF Read is fine. The NQSMHS is interfaced to the rigs data terminal (9600 baud input) and the rig is running NFM mode on 2 meters. I'm transmitting to it with an IC-80. Any thoughts? On a related note, I tried running the DVAR Hot Spot software to see if I could listen to some traffic and adjust things further, but the software says the GMSK modem is disabled? Didn't get a chance to troubleshoot that much, but thought I'd toss it out there with my other problem. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A
I'm using Mark's NQSMHS board with a TM-D700A. Works very well. Here are the D700A settings I'm using, which were passed onto me from Fred PA4YBR: Settings in firmware:TX Invert = OFF, RX Invert = OFF Settings in radio: MENU 1-9-6 (Radio - AUX - Data Speed) : 9600bps (default 1200) MENU 1-3-6 (Radio - TX/RX - Wide/Narrow) : NARROW (default WIDE) [TM-D700E only] Ignore anything about data modes or such.. that all uses the internal FSK TNC (1200/9600) which is irrelevant here. I'm sure you are using the same settings, and you've done the obvious and adjusted the TX trimpot. I'm curious where the antenna for your D710A is located relative to your IC-80 antenna. If your D710A antenna is outside, try going outside and see if the R2D2 is still there. Sometimes the various wires in the house can result in multipath, and gmsk is very vulnerable to multipath. On the D700A, I ended up placing a switch between my outside antenna and a small indoor antenna. When indoors, I use that, and no more R2D2. Wish I could be of more help. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) To: gmsk_dv_n...@yahoogroups.com ; dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A Anybody using the above combination? I got my NQSMHS build over the weekend and tried getting things running today but cannot get rid of the R2D2 on Echotest. I've been the full range of adjustment on the data terminal input and output levels via the MCP-2A software and have carefully adjusted the RX and TX pots at each setting, but still get far too much R2D2. RF Read is fine. The NQSMHS is interfaced to the rigs data terminal (9600 baud input) and the rig is running NFM mode on 2 meters. I'm transmitting to it with an IC-80. Any thoughts? On a related note, I tried running the DVAR Hot Spot software to see if I could listen to some traffic and adjust things further, but the software says the GMSK modem is disabled? Didn't get a chance to troubleshoot that much, but thought I'd toss it out there with my other problem. 73, Mike WM4B
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A
Jim, Funny. as you were posting this, I was changing my Data Speed to 9600 Baud. Great minds think alike! Now. if I can get the DVAR software to find the darn thing. 73, Mike WM4B _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. Moen Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:09 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A I'm using Mark's NQSMHS board with a TM-D700A. Works very well. Here are the D700A settings I'm using, which were passed onto me from Fred PA4YBR: Settings in firmware:TX Invert = OFF, RX Invert = OFF Settings in radio: MENU 1-9-6 (Radio - AUX - Data Speed) : 9600bps (default 1200) MENU 1-3-6 (Radio - TX/RX - Wide/Narrow) : NARROW (default WIDE) [TM-D700E only] Ignore anything about data modes or such.. that all uses the internal FSK TNC (1200/9600) which is irrelevant here. I'm sure you are using the same settings, and you've done the obvious and adjusted the TX trimpot. I'm curious where the antenna for your D710A is located relative to your IC-80 antenna. If your D710A antenna is outside, try going outside and see if the R2D2 is still there. Sometimes the various wires in the house can result in multipath, and gmsk is very vulnerable to multipath. On the D700A, I ended up placing a switch between my outside antenna and a small indoor antenna. When indoors, I use that, and no more R2D2. Wish I could be of more help. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) mailto:mwbese...@cox.net To: gmsk_dv_n...@yahoogroups.com ; dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:15 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] NQSMHS with TM-D710A Anybody using the above combination? I got my NQSMHS build over the weekend and tried getting things running today but cannot get rid of the R2D2 on Echotest. I've been the full range of adjustment on the data terminal input and output levels via the MCP-2A software and have carefully adjusted the RX and TX pots at each setting, but still get far too much R2D2. RF Read is fine. The NQSMHS is interfaced to the rigs data terminal (9600 baud input) and the rig is running NFM mode on 2 meters. I'm transmitting to it with an IC-80. Any thoughts? On a related note, I tried running the DVAR Hot Spot software to see if I could listen to some traffic and adjust things further, but the software says the GMSK modem is disabled? Didn't get a chance to troubleshoot that much, but thought I'd toss it out there with my other problem. 73, Mike WM4B
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: NQSMHS with TM-D710A
Correction. the status is reading 'Disabled'. 73, Mike WM4B _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:23 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: NQSMHS with TM-D710A Ha! Success (sort of)! I set Menu 517 (Ext Data Band) to 'A' (it already was) and Menu 518 (DATA Terminal Speed) to 9600 (it WAS set to 1200). Audio coming back from Echotest is now good! Now... why the heck does the DVAR Hotspot software (v 2.57) report the GMSK Adapter status as GMSK Node Adapter Not Found. NAWinCFG seems to have no trouble finding it. 73, Mike WM4B --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com , Mike Besemer \(WM4B\) mwbese...@... wrote: Anybody using the above combination? I got my NQSMHS build over the weekend and tried getting things running today but cannot get rid of the R2D2 on Echotest. I've been the full range of adjustment on the data terminal input and output levels via the MCP-2A software and have carefully adjusted the RX and TX pots at each setting, but still get far too much R2D2. RF Read is fine. The NQSMHS is interfaced to the rigs data terminal (9600 baud input) and the rig is running NFM mode on 2 meters. I'm transmitting to it with an IC-80. Any thoughts? On a related note, I tried running the DVAR Hot Spot software to see if I could listen to some traffic and adjust things further, but the software says the GMSK modem is disabled? Didn't get a chance to troubleshoot that much, but thought I'd toss it out there with my other problem. 73, Mike WM4B
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Fwd: D-STAR Reflector REF001 Status FRRL W9CEQ D-STAR Repeater Update
On 8/30/2010 7:52 PM, fm10meters wrote: Tried to connect tonight to the REF001 with my new NQSMHS. As soon as it connects it disconnects me. Any ideas? Thanks _,___ We need more information. What software are you running? (DVAR Hotspot?) Is the callsign the software is using to connect registered? Does it allow you to connect to anything else? -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org sip:j...@hays.org mailto:j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star System for sale
Michael, Thanks for the quick response on the serial numbers and pictures, could you send me a picture of the Icom 2820 also please. Thanks, Ralph - Original Message - From: Michael To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:25 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-Star System for sale Selling my D-Star system Controller 2mt 440, 1.2V 1.2D will sell system as a whole $4,000 plus shipping from Alaska. I never had the time to work on getting the system up and running and it needs to find a new home. I have the the shipping boxes that they came in plus the software disk. Gateway soft ware is s/n 0001009 its the newer version s/n's are controller 0601162 2 Meter 0601108 440 0601107 1.2 Voice 0601104 1.2 Data 0601087 call any time after 8 am Alaska time UTC-9 907-376-7474
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] IC-2820 and Extars For Sale
Jeff, I'm interested, what are you asking for it? Don WB5EKU On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:20 AM, sitedev k...@k2ak.net wrote: I have the following for sale: IC-2820H (excellent) UT-123 (installed) CS-2820 software OPC-1529R programming cable Original Manual/container/etc (I am only selling as a package deal) Please contact me off list for price and more information. 73, Jeff - K2AK
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DVAP Help
hello everyone, thanks for all who have replied!!! this is very helpful.!! hopefully someday i'll get my county to purchase a D-STAR system for the EOC. they are highly impressed with the information i gave them. im going to have to save my money up and buy the red dv dongle for my handheld. if anyone has one they are willing to sell please contact me..they are wuite expensive but if someone has a used one that would be great thanks, Allan May, WD4ITE EC Mathews Co., VA --- On Sat, 8/28/10, John D. Hays j...@hays.org wrote: From: John D. Hays j...@hays.org Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DVAP Help To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 10:37 PM On 8/28/2010 9:28 AM, AllanM wrote: Hello all, my name is Allan. i currently have the IC-92AD. the D-STAR repeater around me does Not have Gateway enabled. My question is, If I get the DV Dongle or make one, can i still use the Gateway if i have the DVAP or homebrew dongle? i really want to get on D-Star but still learning about the radio. please help me thanks, Allan May, WD4ITE EC Mathews Co, VA Since you already have a radio, go with the DVAP or a DVAR Hotspot, then you are not tethered to the keyboard at the computer. DVAP - http://www.dvapdongle.com/DV_Access_Point_Dongle/Home.html (Good for around the house, hotel room, etc. plugs into USB port, small, neat, package) DVAR Hotspot - http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ and http://enicomms.com -- a little more work to get the pieces together and setup, but you can provide wider area coverage for yourself and others using a higher power radio and antenna. Lastly, for not a lot more money you can build a full repeater and run Hotspot or soon to be released software (http://g4ulf.blogspot.com or open_g2, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller) --- see http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ Pick your level of interest and enjoy D-STAR. (I manage a full Icom D-STAR stack 2m, 70cm, 23cm, and 23cm DD, but also am enjoying experimenting on my homebrew repeater.) -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DVAP Help
Hello all, my name is Allan. i currently have the IC-92AD. the D-STAR repeater around me does Not have Gateway enabled. My question is, If I get the DV Dongle or make one, can i still use the Gateway if i have the DVAP or homebrew dongle? i really want to get on D-Star but still learning about the radio. please help me thanks, Allan May, WD4ITE EC Mathews Co, VA Hi Allan, and welcome to D-STAR. If you get a DV Dongle or a DVAP, then you won't need your local gateway. You'll be able to directly connect over the internet to any D-STAR reflector, or to any D-STAR repeater that is connected to a gateway that runs dplus. That would be almost all of the D-STAR repeaters outside of Japan. If you use a DV Dongle, then you'll be able to connect using the computer. You would use a headset or a microphone and speakers connected to the computer. If you use a DVAP, then you'll be able to use your 92AD around the house to talk to the DVAP, which will then connect using the computer. I hope this helps clear up the confusion! 73, - Rob W7GH Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] DVAP Help
On 8/28/2010 9:28 AM, AllanM wrote: Hello all, my name is Allan. i currently have the IC-92AD. the D-STAR repeater around me does Not have Gateway enabled. My question is, If I get the DV Dongle or make one, can i still use the Gateway if i have the DVAP or homebrew dongle? i really want to get on D-Star but still learning about the radio. please help me thanks, Allan May, WD4ITE EC Mathews Co, VA Since you already have a radio, go with the DVAP or a DVAR Hotspot, then you are not tethered to the keyboard at the computer. DVAP - http://www.dvapdongle.com/DV_Access_Point_Dongle/Home.html (Good for around the house, hotel room, etc. plugs into USB port, small, neat, package) DVAR Hotspot - http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ and http://enicomms.com -- a little more work to get the pieces together and setup, but you can provide wider area coverage for yourself and others using a higher power radio and antenna. Lastly, for not a lot more money you can build a full repeater and run Hotspot or soon to be released software (http://g4ulf.blogspot.com or open_g2, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller) --- see http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ Pick your level of interest and enjoy D-STAR. (I manage a full Icom D-STAR stack 2m, 70cm, 23cm, and 23cm DD, but also am enjoying experimenting on my homebrew repeater.) http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ -- John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org sip:j...@hays.org mailto:j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
I suppose I would first send UR=XXNXX^^I (^=blank character space and XXNXX is the call sign of your local repeater - I must be in the 8th character space) to see if your local repeater is already linked to something. You can't dplus link to 2 places at once so if linked you may want to unlink - UR=^^^U - call sign is not needed to un-link - not all systems allow users to link/unlink Next link to another repeater set UR=XXNXX^AL to link to XXNXX module A - far end must not already be linked to something. Or link to a reflector UR=REFNNNAL where NNN is the reflector number, A, B, C is the 'time slot (for lack of a better term), and L requests a link. If there is a conversation in progress you will NOT hear the far end if you join mid stream of the transmission. Once the transmission is finished, you will hear the next transmission. Linking happens quickly, but if there is a lengthy transmssion, it may take a bit to hear the next transmission. It is good etiquette for the folks wanting to link to listen for a bit after linking to see of there is a conversation in progress and test the water. You will not over ride the far end transmission. For the folks on the far end it is wise to keep transmissions short and leave plenty of time between transmissions. Also keep the contact short - you may be going out on 5, 10 or 20 repeaters. This is nothing new - just common repeater use courtesy. For the station joining, before you jump in, can you add to the ongoing conversation ? Sometimes it is better to just listen. When there is a 3 way or more it is very courteous to direct the next transmission to a particular station, ie, over to you John etc, to reduce the chance of doubling. When you double, you may be heard on your local repeater, but maybe not on the far end. Digital does not seem to tolerate doubles very well at all. Finally - have fun and enjoy the contact - meet new people - share ideas, etc. This is my take on operation, and as always, I may be completely wrong. 73, steve nu5d On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:55 AM, kc9ony kc9...@arrl.net wrote: Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors.We didn't hear anything, -- NU5D - Nickel Under Five Dollars
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
Hi, When a repeater is linked to a reflector an internet connection is made and the local repeater will transmit over the air any data sent from the reflector. The repeater will send and data stream it hears to the reflector for retrnasmission by any other linked repeaters. The courtesy of announcing that you intend to link or unlink a repeater advises any other reperater users that the change is comming (unless they object, of course). This avoids disrupting any others comms that may be in progress at that time. Of course if you have listened a bit before taking any action you would likely hear any comms in progress. Unlinking is the only direction that can disrupt comms - a pair of hams might be conversing thru the link. Linking only adds repeaters, and the only issue is the courtesy of letting others know that they might now speak to a much larger audience. In practice most (all?) repeaters announce the link / unlink action so folks are indeed notified. On the link however the repeater does not announce what reflector is being linked. The link / unlink process is effectively instantaneous - any delay is only latency over the internet. Very unlikely you could beat the link or unlink process. Hope this helps, 73 Ted W1GRI _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kc9ony Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 09:56 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors. We didn't hear anything, so my buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to mind a few questions: How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector? How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call? So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly not waiting or listening for a long enough time period. When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you are unlinking? If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it? Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in any way or just see my callsign with no audio? Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are connected to a repeater or reflector.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions
Congratulations on getting into D-Star, and for asking about linking etiquette. Steve and Ted pretty much nailed it in their responses. I'll try to add a some additional info. I hope this isn't all old info for you. As you probably know, the D-Star design and ICOM's implementation is to do callsign routing, and that is explained in each D-Star radio manual. But the beauty of the D-Star architecture is that repeater owners can run additional (including non-ICOM) software on their gateway server. It happens Robin Cutshaw AA4RC designed and wrote such a program called DPlus, which allows a repeater to be linked to another repeater or reflector. It turns out most repeater owners outside Japan have chosen to install DPlus on their gateways, so linking and unlinking are very widely available. As Steve wrote, not all repeater administrators allow normal users to issue link and unlink command, but in my experience, many and probably most do. Anyway, since DPlus linking is not an ICOM feature, that's why you won't read about it in your ICOM radio manuals. The linking is very quick. But since the gmsk protocol used by D-Star places the pertinent info for routing (MyCall, UrCall, RPT1, RPT2) in the headers preceeding the digital voice payload, if you link into a repeater with an in-flight QSO, it's likely, as Steve and Ted pointed out, that the current transmission at the far end will not be routed back to where you are. So it is best to wait until any possible current transmission ends, so the comeback can be routed properly and you'll know a QSO is in progress. How long to wait? Well, I've read some repeater websites that suggest you wait 3 minutes. That is probably safest, and if you have something else to do while waiting, that is probably best. But in reality, I'm not sure most people wait that long. I think most people wait a minute or so. Many repeaters also run a script that checks for inactivity over a link, and after, say, 10 minutes of no use, will automatically unlink and relink to that repeater's default. Others don't do that. If you discover your favorite repeater has a default link and doesn't automatically re-establish it, then when you are finished, you should unlink and link to the default manually. Often the repeater's website will tell what's the normal link. If I'm near a computer and want to link to a new repeater, I first try to bring up its website (not all have one) and see if they have any info specific to their repeater that I should know. I put the following web address in a shortcut on my desktop, so the repeater directory comes up sorted by state. This makes it easy to search for repeaters in different states. http://www.dstarusers.org/repeaters.php?repeatersort=5 By the way, if at some time you buy a DV Dongle or a DVAP, or if you build yourself a Hotspot, you should know all those depend solely on DPlus linking (they don't support callsign routing). It turns out Robin wrote the software for both the Dongle and the DVAP. Obviously the same etiquette for linking using these devices also applies. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: kc9ony To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 6:55 AM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Linking and Unlinking questions Still learning about D-Star here. The other night, we tried linking into one of the popular reflectors. We didn't hear anything, so my buddy called CQ. I seem to think I then heard a partial conversation and then acknowledgement of my buddy's callsign. That brought to mind a few questions: How long does it take for the repeater to connect to the reflector? How long should one wait before trying to initiate a call? So far, in the few times we have done it, no one has yelled at us for interrupting or causing any disruption of data, if that did occur. I just don't want to step on any toes if we are possibly not waiting or listening for a long enough time period. When unlinking, is it necessary to announce to the reflector that you are unlinking? If I want to unlink and not interrupt a conversation, can I just do it? Will they hear a beep and my callsign or does this disrupt the data in any way or just see my callsign with no audio? Just wondering if there is a write up on common courtesy and protocol for D-Star? I know that on the Calculator page, they say to announce your intentions. Obviously, if you are not near a computer or have access to the internet, you can't see how busy or how many things are connected to a repeater or reflector.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Charles Scott To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com ; mids...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 12:10 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller All: Before I go out looking to buy new, does anyone have a UHF voice module (ID-RP4000V) and controller (ID-RP2C) available? Two? We're looking to put up two sites in Northern Michigan, primarily for E-Comm use. One site already has a transmitter combiner and receiver multi-coupler with separate recieve/transmit antennas so I could litterally just plug it in there (would be replacing an existing UHF analog repeater). The second location we'll probably have to install antenna hardware. Both have good network connectivity. Would be good if we could save a bit rather than pay retail. If not, where's the best deals? Thanks, Chuck - N8DNX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
You might look for a Motorola RP1225 or a narrow banded Kenwood TKR -- I have a stock TKR-820 in service with a minimum of work, just pulled the deviation down (the receive is still wide but works). Read about it here: http://k7ve.org/blog/2010/06/converting-the-kenwood-tkr-820-to-use-with-d-star/ -- I am waiting for G4ULF's package before putting it on the USTRUST, but it is running on the Multi-Trust right now using the OpenG2 stuff, which you can find at http://groups.yahoo.com/prcrepeatercontroller/files On Aug 26, 2010, at 12:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent. The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D- Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Sorry typo - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller/files/ On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:06 PM, John Hays wrote: OpenG2 stuff, which you can find at http://groups.yahoo.com/prcrepeatercontroller/files John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow-band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 3:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
Chuck, I don't have personal experience with the VXR 5000, but if Pin 3 is flat to the modulator and pin 6 is flat from the discriminator and it is true FM (no PM), then it may be a good candidate. Just start with my article and the pinout at http://www.repeater-builder.com/yaesu-vertex-standard/vxr-5000/vxr-5000-repeater-mods.html -- buy a node adapter (Satoshi or Enicomms) and give it a try, if the VXRs work out, let us all know, if not, look for something that will work like the Kenwood TKRs and use the node adapter with that. Expertise on Node Adapters: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmsk_dv_node Software expertise: http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller , http://g4ulf.blogspot.com On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:54 PM, Charles Scott wrote: Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow- band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
John, anyone: Is there a difference between the Satoshi and Enicomms node adapters that I need to consider? Yes, the VXR-5000 does have discriminator output. I believe the TX side can be optioned to be flat, but don't know much beyond that, so I'll have to do some research. Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 5:09 PM, John Hays wrote: Chuck, I don't have personal experience with the VXR 5000, but if Pin 3 is flat to the modulator and pin 6 is flat from the discriminator and it is true FM (no PM), then it may be a good candidate. Just start with my article and the pinout at http://www.repeater-builder.com/yaesu-vertex-standard/vxr-5000/vxr-5000-repeater-mods.html -- buy a node adapter (Satoshi or Enicomms) and give it a try, if the VXRs work out, let us all know, if not, look for something that will work like the Kenwood TKRs and use the node adapter with that. Expertise on Node Adapters: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gmsk_dv_node Software expertise: http://w9arp.com/hotspot/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcrepeatercontroller , http://g4ulf.blogspot.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
From a practical point of view they are pretty equivalent. Both run fine with the DVAR software. G4ULF's package is being tested against both and a few bugs and documentation issues are still being worked out before general release. They do have different licensing terms for their firmware which you may want to consider, I like PA4YBR's terms better. Satoshi makes disparaging remarks about other manufacturers of boards and firmware on his site, but does offer a nice enclosure with his boards. I will say that KI4LKFs (now unsupported) program RPTR and PA4YBRs firmware have some minor annoying problems on my setup, but we will eventually get it sorted out. Enicomms is in the US, Satoshi is in Japan, and PA4YBR also offers a board out of the Netherlands. http://www.dutch-star.eu/ - Fred, PA4YBR/KA4YBR http://d-star.dyndns.org/ - Satoshi Yasuda, 7M3TJZ/AD6GZ http://enicomms.com/ - Mark, G7LTT/NI2O On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Charles Scott wrote: John, anyone: Is there a difference between the Satoshi and Enicomms node adapters that I need to consider? Yes, the VXR-5000 does have discriminator output. I believe the TX side can be optioned to be flat, but don't know much beyond that, so I'll have to do some research. Chuck - N8DNX John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller
John and Charles pretty much answered your questions. To me, the key point is that G4ULF's software has been accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compatible, and that he has tested his code with Fred's firmware (says so on his blog site), so you have a choice of boards and firmware. This free software and inexpensive node adapter board do save money, but as you know, all the repeater RF issues have to be addressed. The good news is with this approach, you can employ an analog radio that you may be able to get quite inexpensively, as long as it allows or you can get directly to the discriminator output and the modulator, bypassing filtering. And as you've already noted, you can typically adjust the deviation down to what other ICOM D-Star radios expect. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Charles Scott To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Looking for D-Star UHF Repeater/Controller Jim: Interesting. I'm somewhat familiar with the hot spots, but didn't realize it was going this far. So, if I have this right, what's needed is the GMSK node adapter board, a repeater, and a computer. At that point, and with the NI-Star software when that's released, we would have the same functionality as the Icom repeater, controller, and gateway computer, right--and then some? I have two Vertex VXR5000's I could do this with. Neither are narrow-band right now. I could mod them without too much trouble but I probably don't have to do that unless I get moved to a narrow pair assignment. Has anyone used a VXR5000 for this? Chuck - N8DNX On 8/26/2010 3:42 PM, J. Moen wrote: If you haven't already, I'd recommend you consider the non-ICOM approach, which will allow you to save significant money. This would be using a gmsk modem or Node Adapter board to interface between the server and an analog radio. The boards are in the US $100 - $150 range. For initial testing, you could start out with DVAR Hot Spot by KB9KHM in full duplex repeater mode. This supports DPlus but not callsign routing and runs only on Windows. Soon to be released is Dave Lake G4ULF's NI-Star software, which has been tested and accepted by the US Trust team to be fully G2 compliant. It runs on Linux, typically CentOS, and repeaters running it during the careful test phase typically run the other standard applications like Dplus, DPRS/D-Star Monitor, etc. without modification. David's blog at http://g4ulf.blogspot.com/ says they are now working on packaging and documentation, and that release is imminent.The first repeater up and running was GB7MH in Sept 2009 as reported by the RSGB RadCom magazine Feb 2010. One of the most recent to come online is WG2MSK. See http://www.sidigital.org/ Once NI-Star is officially released, I expect to see many more new D-Star repeaters brought up with considerable savings compared to the ICOM only installation. Jim - K6JM
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] ID-880H for Sale
Bill, I haven't seen any replies to your email, do you still have the 880H for sale? 73 Don WB5EKU On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Bill Jourdain ab...@ab4bj.com wrote: Like new ID-880H for sale. Used only in my shack, never mobile. Have all original accessories, box and manual. Looks and works like new. Asking $400. I pay shipping. Will only sell in CONUS. 73, Bill AB4BJ
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom ICF Files
I just changed the radio in the pulldown menu from one to the other and it worked perfectly. You didn't hold your mouth right! 73 de Tim, AF1G Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.net wrote: = H…. Mine griped up a storm when I went to input my ID-880 file into my IC-80. I solved the problem by exporting each 100 channel cluster into Excel and then importing it into the IC-80 file. Musta been something funny. 73, Mike WM4B From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Hardy AF1G Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:50 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom ICF Files The ID880H and the IC80AD both use the same programming cable and the same software. The Icom software has a pulldown menu at the top to choose whether you are working with the 880 or the 80. All the programming parameters are the same for both radios. Once you have entered programming information into the software, you can load the same file into both radios just by selecting the correct radio from the top menu. You can also download the programming from an 880 and load it into the 80, or vice-versa. 73 de Tim, AF1G Dan Smith dsm...@danplanet.com mailto:dsmith%40danplanet.com wrote: = Are the 80D and 880 icf convertible between each other ? I see where Chirp works with the 880 - steve Having never laid hands on an ID-80 before, I'm not sure at what level they are the same. It's possible that they have different memory formats (as do all the other radios) but that the software can read them both. It's also possible that they truly use the same memory format entirely, although I doubt it. -- Dan Smith www.danplanet.com KK7DS Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Business Management Online With Virtual reference
This is an inappropriate post to this group. Has this users account been hijacked or is this an error in judgement? 73 de Tim, AF1G nodjaffery nodjaff...@yahoo.com wrote: = Business Management Online With Virtual reference http://www.onlinevisainfo.com/business_index.html Welcome to Business Management Online, the virtual reference point for international students who are considering a course in a business, finance or management related subject. more http://www.onlinevisainfo.com/business_index.html Alan Greenspan talks to study overseas about how the practical effects of modern economic changes have been keenly felt by all, especially those leaders of higher education today. more http://www.onlinevisainfo.com/business_index.html Once you've decided to study business in the United States, you may feel as if you've decided to swim the English Channel. What college should you take? What business field should you major in? What classes should you take? If you are considering studying business in the US, there is such a wide array of post-secondary programs and institutions open to foreign students that your initial options may seem endless. Read More http://www.onlinevisainfo.com/business_index.html
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Reflector question
OK, I'll give that a try. gerry Peter Scherp wrote: restart Dplus on your server, that helps most,I do so,if I hear that message,and after Reboot,it's gone AI4UE On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Joey j...@stan4d.net mailto:j...@stan4d.net wrote: Has anyone seen a problem where, when you attempt to link to a reflector, the response is, Remote system is currently busy? I get this consistently on several of 'em. Hi, I could be wrong but I've seen that when the node you are attempting to link to is already linked elsewhere or that node has been setup to prevent (block) linking. Joey -- Peter Scherp -- Gerry Creager -- gerry.crea...@tamu.edu Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas AM University Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983 Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843 Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom ICF Files
ICF files really only make sense in a local area. The best place to get local icf files is by talking to local D-STAR users. You can see how to extract the data from a 91AD ICF here http://k7ve.org/blog/2007/06/csv-load-for-icom-ic-91ad/ The 880 and 80 are, to my knowledge, the only mutually compatible file format. However, since the 880/80 software has cut and paste, you can take the csv generated from the 91AD ICF (documented on my blog, URL above) and open it in a spreadsheet and cut and paste columns into the 80AD program. On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:48 AM, n2gyn wrote: Can a Icom 91AD ICF file be used with a 80AD file? Are the Icom ICF file compatible? Also is their a website that people post there ICF files? John N2GYN ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Icom ICF Files
Chirp lets you export into a spread sheet and import between models. http://chirp.danplanet.com/ 73 steve On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:48 AM, n2gyn li...@gmx.net wrote: Can a Icom 91AD ICF file be used with a 80AD file? -- NU5D - Nickel Under Five Dollars
