RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I like the comment myself, as I played with setting up and ad-hoc LTR Ham system in the radio shop once for fun and giggles I had thought about doing the HAM LTR using 900 MHz. endless brain thoughts going on here. Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM / WQFK-894 Fla. D-Star Tech Support Group http://www.florida-dstar.info http://www.florida-dstar.info/ Polk ARES A.E.C. http://www.polkemcomm.org http://www.polkemcomm.org/ BB8330 PIN: 30965B58 _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dlake02 Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:28 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Nice idea, but unworkable in D-Star due to the fact that it's a single carrier system. If you take a real trunked system like MPT1327, trunked P25 or TETRA, then there multiple carriers per site (or timeslots in the case of TETRA) to allow multiple calls. In D-Star, there can only be one session at a time per repeater. You would need some contention system to handle multiple users. For example, if the repeater you appeared on was linked to D-Plus, would you unlink it ? When would you re-link ? What if a QSO was in progress ? Don't get me wrong - I like the idea. But D-Star uses the wrong radio access method to make it work. David --- In dstar_digital@ mailto:dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, John Hays j...@... wrote: On Jan 22, 2010, at 3:28 PM, Nate Duehr wrote: On 1/22/2010 4:03 PM, Neil wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if say, a group of people around the country (or world even), could put a special call in the UR field and everyone in that group would have their traffic automatically routed to all the other members, bit like a multicast I suppose, but not much fun if the local repeater was already in use. (That's where G3 'could' come in handy, sending a message instead to the members radio on that repeater, underneath the QSO without hindering the other users...then you could switch to another repeater/node and continue.) I suppose you could subscribe to a 'multicast group', something like a reflector that handles instantaneous multiple connections. Food for thought... 73 de Neil G7EBY The commercial digital world calls this talk groups and has had it for at least a decade. An Amateur talk group system would need to come up with a way to self-register with a particular talk group. Could be done. Interesting concept. Nate WY0X Once we have an open source gateway, its pretty easy. My understanding is that the RP2C sends any transmission with something in RPT2 to the gateway (doesn't have to just be call G --- there are a couple of syntax that could be used. UR: TG0R (Register) MY: K7VE RPT1: NW7DR (Module number isn't required by the protocol, but may be required for RP2C) RPT2: GATEWAY With UR:TG0U (UnRegister) The gateway would have a list of active talkgroups and register itself to the talkgroup server (like a reflector) for two way transmission relay -- no need for a link Another syntax: UR: (usually CQCQCQ or ---U to Unregister) MY: K7VE RPT1: NW7DR RPT2: TG0 (Gateway will register for talkgroup if not already registered, keep a list of local callsigns in the group and unregister when the last sends the unregister or times out) Arbitration of multiple talk groups on a single repeater frequency is the main downside. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@... Email: j...@...
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Kay, Thanks for the clarifications, indeed, the second hand information that I have isn't always correct and I always want to make sure that I making correct statements. It's good to hear that 440 MHz has finally surpassed the 1.2, because as well as I can remember, the first 20 or so repeaters deployed were 1.2 only and it seems as if there are still a half-dozen 1.2 only repeaters operation, but there's definitely more 440 only repeaters now! The limited number of repeaters concept really has more to do with the fact that you are on a separate trust server, and also the G1 gateway. It wasn't until Dayton 2 years ago, that the linkage between our systems existed, and linking still doesn't exist. I believe that people outside of Japan tend to expect that if they get on one of their repeaters that are linked and call CQ, then there are 500+ gateways around the world that is part of their system It is just as common for me to talk to someone in New York, as it as for me to talk to someone here in Atlanta. That's really the concept behind what I was talking about. And when we are talking number of repeaters, let's not leave out the UK with 40+ and Germany with 60+. We just need to figure out some way to get the JARL to let you come to G2 and install DPLUS and join the rest of the world. Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JI1BQW Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:54 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Hi it fits the way that Japanese Amateurs operate. They operate different from us, I am not sure if we operate different from you. things like nets just aren't done over there (from my understanding). Users don't own more than 1 radio, and the most common radio is probably the ID-1. There are lots of nets on other networks (like WiRES, EchoLink and IRLP), but not on D-STAR, you know why. In this sense, it does not necessarily fit the way we operate. Many of us own more than one D-STAR radio and the most common is 70cm. ID-1 is taken as a geek's gear. There are no 2m D-STAR repeaters here by the way. They have a limited number of repeaters and a nationwide standard channel configuration. They aren't really mobile, they don't move between repeaters. A limited number of repeaters? Compared to the US, maybe. There are 57 D-STAR repeaters in the area a bit smaller than the state of California. It maybe true that we don't mobile much and move between repeaters. And they are still on the first version of the gateway and unable to link repeaters together. Sadly true. It's shame that ICOM did not consider net/reflector capability into their gateway (not even in the version 2). They also do make use of the zone feature in Japan and in some cases have the very expensive 10Gbps links in place. There are 3 zones today. I don't see any reason why people want this. Unlikely to see more. 73, -- JI1BQW - Kay Ishikawa
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
You definitely should consider the 80/880. At a minimum, they have the same type of memory programmability as all of the radios, it's just the new repeater mode is a little quirky. But you don't have to use it if you don't want to. The old stuff still works great. Ed WA4YIH -Original Message- From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Earl Needham Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:11 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy I've been considering the ID-880 -- does this mean I shouldn't? Tnx Earl WA4YIH wrote: But Icom does realize that the remainder of the world is very different and hence the new programming in the 80/880 series which was designed for everyone else. Too bad they pretty will missed the mark on the features. Now it's only marginally useful for anyone. (Yes it does work, but with a few changes, it could have been infinitely more useful) KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Actually there was the capability to have it in the AX.25 network. There was a WP (White Page) and YP (Yellow Page) server that was a distributed architecture that users could query. And yes, Packet radio died because it worked. As packet became popular and people used it, the traffic went up and eventually people left because now the network was too congested to do anything. Yes, showing up with the satellite uplink is definitely an advantage. It will be nice when we finally get a geosynchronous bird in orbit. But I think that are two other areas that you somewhat left out that we can provide capabilities, the first is the removal of the requirement, that we show up. The second is the ability to provide additional bandwidth for health and welfare traffic that no one else has a tasking to handle. How can we do better than we show up? Well, that's because in many locations, we're already there. We don't have to wait for the satellite trucks to roll in, we don't have to wait for the atmosphere to clear enough to get a connection through the clouds. We're there an operating, before, during, and after. And the HW traffic is something that we have long provided and something that most of the government agencies don't want to worry with.(They have more important fish to fry). From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:41 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy On 1/21/2010 10:34 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: Actually the way that routi ng is done in D-STAR is much better than the routing done in the basic AX.25 protocol. In AX.25, you had to specify each node along a path. The additional protocol stacks like KA-Node and others act a little more like D-STAR routing in that once connected to the network, you then specify the destination and the network automatically figures out how to get there. Not to go TOO far afield from D-STAR here, but AX.25 networks could have EASILY added what D-STAR has... a master DB that did a lookup on a destination and just went there with the datagrams. The real killer of AX.25 for anything except APRS was bandwidth. 1200 bps just isn't even CLOSE to useful these days, and my fear is that after the newness wears off, it won't be enough for D-STAR either. I've been saying this for years... we're the guys that show up and get Comm going for the first 72 hours. After that, the larger and better funded organizations will be 95%+ back online or the areas affected will be evacuated. We're far more useful to emergency folks if we show up with a $500 satellite uplink, knowledge of how to provision a NAT router and 802.11 -- than we are as Amateur operators. We LEARN the RF basics and electronics basics to handle let's slap something together that works, but showing up saying this D-STAR radio will fix your problems, just ain't gonna cut it, these days. It'll fix their problem in a poor way until the cellular company COW trucks roll in. That's about it. Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Wouldn't it be nice if say, a group of people around the country (or world even), could put a special call in the UR field and everyone in that group would have their traffic automatically routed to all the other members, bit like a multicast I suppose, but not much fun if the local repeater was already in use. (That's where G3 'could' come in handy, sending a message instead to the members radio on that repeater, underneath the QSO without hindering the other users...then you could switch to another repeater/node and continue.) I suppose you could subscribe to a 'multicast group', something like a reflector that handles instantaneous multiple connections. Food for thought... 73 de Neil G7EBY. - Original Message - From: john_ke5c To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:42 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy And yes, Packet radio died because it worked. As packet became popular and people used it, the traffic went up and eventually people left because now the network was too congested to do anything. AX25 reminds me quite a bit of D-Star. AX25 has two modes: connected (linked) and unconnected (UI or broadcast). D-Star has two similar modes: directed (UR set to a registered callsign) and CQ (UR set to CQCQCQ). When AX25 began there was some experimentation and evolution about when each mode should be used. Unconnected was useful for calling CQ but connected was useful for linking to bulletin boards and for QSO's although you could QSO in unconnected mode too. Similar experimentation and evolution seems ongoing within D-Star, especially with the dplus extension (not a part of the D-Star specification at all). I think people left packet before the network congestion began. Bulletin boards became internet rather than RF connected, and there were competing digital modes that worked more reliably, especially on HF. Although of experimental interest, attended data modes on VHF have just never been hugely popular. APRS caused the inherent inadequacies of the original AX25 specification for congested channels to become a real problem, but that didn't kill packet, rather, packet evolved with UI flood/trace and NSR (no source) routing and with more intelligent digipeaters (read gateways). One can only wonder how D-Star will next adapt and evolve. 73 -- John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 1/21/2010 6:53 PM, JI1BQW wrote: A limited number of repeaters? Compared to the US, maybe. There are 57 D-STAR repeaters in the area a bit smaller than the state of California. It maybe true that we don't mobile much and move between repeaters. Wow! Nice coverage! Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 1/22/2010 4:03 PM, Neil wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if say, a group of people around the country (or world even), could put a special call in the UR field and everyone in that group would have their traffic automatically routed to all the other members, bit like a multicast I suppose, but not much fun if the local repeater was already in use. (That's where G3 'could' come in handy, sending a message instead to the members radio on that repeater, underneath the QSO without hindering the other users...then you could switch to another repeater/node and continue.) I suppose you could subscribe to a 'multicast group', something like a reflector that handles instantaneous multiple connections. Food for thought... 73 de Neil G7EBY The commercial digital world calls this talk groups and has had it for at least a decade. An Amateur talk group system would need to come up with a way to self-register with a particular talk group. Could be done. Interesting concept. Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On Jan 22, 2010, at 3:28 PM, Nate Duehr wrote: On 1/22/2010 4:03 PM, Neil wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if say, a group of people around the country (or world even), could put a special call in the UR field and everyone in that group would have their traffic automatically routed to all the other members, bit like a multicast I suppose, but not much fun if the local repeater was already in use. (That's where G3 'could' come in handy, sending a message instead to the members radio on that repeater, underneath the QSO without hindering the other users...then you could switch to another repeater/node and continue.) I suppose you could subscribe to a 'multicast group', something like a reflector that handles instantaneous multiple connections. Food for thought... 73 de Neil G7EBY The commercial digital world calls this talk groups and has had it for at least a decade. An Amateur talk group system would need to come up with a way to self-register with a particular talk group. Could be done. Interesting concept. Nate WY0X Once we have an open source gateway, its pretty easy. My understanding is that the RP2C sends any transmission with something in RPT2 to the gateway (doesn't have to just be call G --- there are a couple of syntax that could be used. UR: TG0R (Register) MY: K7VE RPT1: NW7DR (Module number isn't required by the protocol, but may be required for RP2C) RPT2: GATEWAY With UR:TG0U (UnRegister) The gateway would have a list of active talkgroups and register itself to the talkgroup server (like a reflector) for two way transmission relay -- no need for a link Another syntax: UR: (usually CQCQCQ or ---U to Unregister) MY: K7VE RPT1: NW7DR RPT2: TG0 (Gateway will register for talkgroup if not already registered, keep a list of local callsigns in the group and unregister when the last sends the unregister or times out) Arbitration of multiple talk groups on a single repeater frequency is the main downside. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Re: call sign routing -- it sounds to me like the routing that was envisioned for AX.25 packet radio -- which never quite happened. 7 3 Earl The original new guy KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Earl, One does tend to wonder where the concept came from. But from my understanding, it fits the way that Japanese Amateurs operate. They operate different from us, things like nets just aren't done over there (from my understanding). Users don't own more than 1 radio, and the most common radio is probably the ID-1. They have a limited number of repeaters and a nationwide standard channel configuration. They aren't really mobile, they don't move between repeaters. And they are still on the first version of the gateway and unable to link repeaters together. They also do make use of the zone feature in Japan and in some cases have the very expensive 10Gbps links in place. But Icom does realize that the remainder of the world is very different and hence the new programming in the 80/880 series which was designed for everyone else. Too bad they pretty will missed the mark on the features. Now it's only marginally useful for anyone. (Yes it does work, but with a few changes, it could have been infinitely more useful) Actually the way that routing is done in D-STAR is much better than the routing done in the basic AX.25 protocol. In AX.25, you had to specify each node along a path. The additional protocol stacks like KA-Node and others act a little more like D-STAR routing in that once connected to the network, you then specify the destination and the network automatically figures out how to get there. Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Earl Needham Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:27 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Re: call sign routing -- it sounds to me like the routing that was envisioned for AX.25 packet radio -- which never quite happened. 7 3 Earl The original new guy KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
*And he can lissen to the Live video Stream,realtime on 24/7 * http://dstarradioclub-international.com/ middle on the first page and on a live stream from UK, he find under Dstar live G... don,t have the link here. He see text and the D-star voice AI4UE Peter NC USA Recent Activity: - New Membershttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZXJ0Z2swBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwNTEwNTI2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjY0MDk1NDc0?o=6 14 Visit Your Grouphttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc21ybnYyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwNTEwNTI2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyNjQwOTU0NzQ- Start a New Topichttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWI5bG5jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwNTEwNTI2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNjQwOTU0NzQ- Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. Thanks MARKETPLACE Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green livinghttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=14kuki1a2/M=493064.13814333.13821539.13298430/D=groups/S=1705063108:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1264102675/L=/B=gjblGUSO5.M-/J=1264095475382059/K=_qg066bph4COsUzjnRFi8A/A=5922843/R=0/SIG=11ckn2mo6/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/green/ [image: Yahoo! Groups]http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlY3Zqdm5vBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIwNTEwNTI2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzEwOARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTI2NDA5NTQ3NA-- Switch to: Text-Onlydstar_digital-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change+delivery+format:+Traditional, Daily Digestdstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email+delivery:+Digest• Unsubscribedstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe• Terms of Use http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . -- Peter Scherp
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 1/21/2010 10:34 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: Actually the way that routi ng is done in D-STAR is much better than the routing done in the basic AX.25 protocol. In AX.25, you had to specify each node along a path. The additional protocol stacks like KA-Node and others act a little more like D-STAR routing in that once connected to the network, you then specify the destination and the network automatically figures out how to get there. Not to go TOO far afield from D-STAR here, but AX.25 networks could have EASILY added what D-STAR has... a master DB that did a lookup on a destination and just went there with the datagrams. The real killer of AX.25 for anything except APRS was bandwidth. 1200 bps just isn't even CLOSE to useful these days, and my fear is that after the newness wears off, it won't be enough for D-STAR either. It's really a shame that the D-STAR specification didn't include a flag to flip that says, I'm using the ENTIRE available bandwidth of this stream for data, instead of making the same mistake early cell phone tech did, channelizing/timeslotting everything so there's voice bandwidth and data bandwidth and never the two shall mix. 9600 bps is far more useful, but still woefully inadequate for today's mobile data needs. The ID-1 at 128 kbs is BARELY adequate. Neither can come close to backing up the need for more bandwidth during a large-scale public network outage. They'll get the bare minimum number of emergency messages through in times of DIRE need, but I have a feeling they're too little, too late to make Amateur Radio seem useful in the modern world. Mix that with other bigger picture items like our inability to encrypt easily (a modern network REQUIREMENT, not a nice to have feature anymore) under the laws in most countries where Amateur Radio is popular, and other things (the recent hullaballoo over Amateurs who work in Public Safety not doing Amateur Radio things while on the job, for example) makes us very unpalatable to many groups/agencies who otherwise would appreciate our services. I've been saying this for years... we're the guys that show up and get Comm going for the first 72 hours. After that, the larger and better funded organizations will be 95%+ back online or the areas affected will be evacuated. We're far more useful to emergency folks if we show up with a $500 satellite uplink, knowledge of how to provision a NAT router and 802.11 -- than we are as Amateur operators. We LEARN the RF basics and electronics basics to handle let's slap something together that works, but showing up saying this D-STAR radio will fix your problems, just ain't gonna cut it, these days. It'll fix their problem in a poor way until the cellular company COW trucks roll in. That's about it. I'm not saying this is good or bad in any way, just pointing out the realistic facts about our Amateur Radio technology. An emergency communications vehicle should have a D-STAR rig, but it's about 10th down the priority list behind a generator, a satellite uplink, a sat phone, and a bunch of other things. ARRL's marketing campaign that seems to indicate our TECHNOLOGY is the answer for Emergency Services, is misguided. Our KNOW-HOW is far more important. Problem is, our testing and licensing is based on RF principals and Safety, and leaves out the most important things we have to offer the world... our knowledge of how to get the networks, computers, and other things up and running... Sorry if this is too far off-topic. I'd bring it up at a dinner party with D-STAR fans, so I bring it up here. We must be realistic about where we add value or don't add value. Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Woodrick, Ed ewoodr...@ed-com.com wrote: They also do make use of the zone feature in Japan and in some cases have the very expensive 10Gbps links in place. I think you meant 10Ghz links ? I do not think these links will provide a speed of 10Gbps or the entire commercial telecom community would be using them. 73s Robbie ON4SAX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I've been considering the ID-880 -- does this mean I shouldn't? Tnx Earl WA4YIH wrote: But Icom does realize that the remainder of the world is very different and hence the new programming in the 80/880 series which was designed for everyone else. Too bad they pretty will missed the mark on the features. Now it’s only marginally useful for anyone. (Yes it does work, but with a few changes, it could have been infinitely more useful) KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hi Earl, I have the 880 and find it to be a very capable radio, both from an analog and digital point of view. I find it very easy to use and the software that is supplied, although not that flashy, gets the job done. I think you will be very happy with the purchase. Mine is in use every day. Hope that helps! 73, Robert - N4IJS - Original Message - From: Earl Needham earl.kd...@gmail.com Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 15:33 Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com I've been considering the ID-880 -- does this mean I shouldn't? Tnx Earl WA4YIH wrote: But Icom does realize that the remainder of the world is very different and hence the new programming in the 80/880 series which was designed for everyone else. Too bad they pretty will missed the mark on the features. Now it’s only marginally useful for anyone. (Yes it does work, but with a few changes, it could have been infinitely more useful) KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hi Earl. Great radio. DAVE G7AKM. In a message dated 21/01/2010 21:02:23 GMT Standard Time, n4...@insightbb.com writes: Hi Earl, I have the 880 and find it to be a very capable radio, both from an analog and digital point of view. I find it very easy to use and the software that is supplied, although not that flashy, gets the job done. I think you will be very happy with the purchase. Mine is in use every day. Hope that helps! 73, Robert - N4IJS - Original Message - From: Earl Needham earl.kd...@gmail.ear Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 15:33 Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy To: dstar_digi...@to: dstaTo: I've been considering the ID-880 -- does this mean I shouldn't? Tnx Earl WA4YIH wrote: But Icom does realize that the remainder of the world is very different and hence the new programming in the 80/880 series which was designed for everyone else. Too bad they pretty will missed the mark on the features. Now it’s only marginally useful for anyone. (Yes it does work, but with a few changes, it could have been infinitely more useful) KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups. http: http Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hi it fits the way that Japanese Amateurs operate. They operate different from us, I am not sure if we operate different from you. things like nets just aren't done over there (from my understanding). Users don't own more than 1 radio, and the most common radio is probably the ID-1. There are lots of nets on other networks (like WiRES, EchoLink and IRLP), but not on D-STAR, you know why. In this sense, it does not necessarily fit the way we operate. Many of us own more than one D-STAR radio and the most common is 70cm. ID-1 is taken as a geek's gear. There are no 2m D-STAR repeaters here by the way. They have a limited number of repeaters and a nationwide standard channel configuration. They aren't really mobile, they don't move between repeaters. A limited number of repeaters? Compared to the US, maybe. There are 57 D-STAR repeaters in the area a bit smaller than the state of California. It maybe true that we don't mobile much and move between repeaters. And they are still on the first version of the gateway and unable to link repeaters together. Sadly true. It's shame that ICOM did not consider net/reflector capability into their gateway (not even in the version 2). They also do make use of the zone feature in Japan and in some cases have the very expensive 10Gbps links in place. There are 3 zones today. I don't see any reason why people want this. Unlikely to see more. 73, -- JI1BQW - Kay Ishikawa
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hi The 880's a fine rig. There's one feature that Icom added trying to accommodate U.S. style linking and they kinda goofed it up, there's a PDF file at dealerships that explains it Could you or anyone elaborate it? Or just a pointer would be fine. 73, -- JI1BQW - Kay Ishikawa --- Original Message --- On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:58:25 -0700 Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: On 1/21/2010 1:11 PM, Earl Needham wrote: I've been considering the ID-880 -- does this mean I shouldn't? The 880's a fine rig. There's one feature that Icom added trying to accommodate U.S. style linking and they kinda goofed it up, there's a PDF file at dealerships that explains it... or maybe by now they include it in the box. It's no big deal. Just makes that one feature in the manual wrong/confusing. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one, if you want to. It's just a documentation thing and a these special memory features don't quite work like we planned type of thing. Nothing that's a big deal. Nate WY0X Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links - Original Message Ends
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Neil, The Internet is a very useful thing. And I am not anti-Internet in any way. I just argue against depending on it as a primary transport medium for amateurs. The words Internet and Security should never be used in the same sentence unless they are talking about the lack of security on the Internet. The easy connectivity that the Internet offers is a strong lure, but it is also a weakness. There are a number of EComm systems that are doing Internet linking using IRLP/Eckolink to link their repeaters together. And then they say that this will be there in an emergency. Having been through a few of those, the Internet (like electricity, fuel and roads) is usually one of the first things that is lost. Some of the floods they have had in the mid-west have shown that weakness. We are supposed to be more robust than that. We are supposed to work when all that other stuff fails. Packet has suffered from routing issues (something the Internet does as second nature) since I learned about it a long time ago. The lack of routing ability is why I never got into it. It was good for a couple of hops, but past that it was a crap-shoot that you would be able to route your message without a lot of playing around. I believe that had a lot to do with the collapse and the transition to the Internet. Today, should something happen to the Internet, I highly doubt (keep in mind that I am not a packet expert) that a message could get from one side of the country to the other using packet, without putting it on some other mode. That generally means that some manual transaction has to occur. We use packet here in Tucson, but only as a local thing, almost like APRS (with larger messages). I know we can get stuff to Phoenix with Packet, but I doubt that we could reach CA, NM or even Flagstaff with packet from here without some manual intervention if the Internet went away. I will have to ask someone who is much more versed in packet than I am. By the same argument though, if you are running packet over the Internet, it isn't packet radio any more, it is email. In that sense, everyone practices packet these days. 73 David, AC7DS --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com wrote: From: Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 4:01 PM I agree, those that sit in front of a PC all day without RF are not 'radio' amateurs. The thing about D-Star IS the connectivity,... [Snip] A lot of packet backbones went over to the Internet ... [Snip]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Neil, The dongle is a good opportunity for those that have no choice, but is still no substitute for a real radio. I know, DStar isn't everywhere, YET. :-D The part of your message that bothers me is: Given that some have restrictions on antenna's and planning regs I suppose we could make exceptions Why should we have to make exceptions?? Why should we have to accept this as a part of our lives?? WE (all the people of the world) need to start putting an end to or fighting back against anything that oppresses or takes away individual rights and freedoms. What gives them the right to say we can't have an antenna. There is a brainwashing effort out there, and it is huge and very quiet, that it is OK, acceptable and normal to surrender your individual rights and freedoms to someone else: HOAs, zoning boards, local governments, schools and others. This is wrong. Dead Wrong! We are loosing more and more individual rights and freedoms everyday. And WE need to stand up and fight this. Unfortunately they are very entrenched. This doesn't mean to start a revolt (which probably won't go well). It means to get involved with these organizations to help them govern the interactions between people and not the step on individual rights and freedoms. They should not be able to tell you that you can't have an antenna (that would be an individual freedom). They can tell you that you have to work to solve interference (the interaction). Or that you can't have an antenna over a certain height because it might fall on your neighbor's property (Safety issue). Other than that, they have no right to tell you that you can't have an antenna or flag of a cockroach or whatever. Have a great day, David, AC7DS --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com wrote: From: Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com [Snip]
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
David, Who is depending on the Internet as the primary transport mechanism for Amateurs? I don't think that anyone on this list is. What many of us do is to utilize every means possible to provide communications. There are times when atmospheric conditions make it impossible to use HF. There are times when any repeater will go off the air for some reason. What makes Amateur Radio reliable is the large toolbox that we have available to us. As to the Internet being the first thing lost, that indeed is evidently, since you say, your experience, but it isn't my experience. During the LA earthquakes, Internet access existed. During Katrina, there was Internet access in downtown New Orleans. I'm suspecting that there's still Internet access in Haiti. But then again, catastrophic disasters isn't the only types of emergencies that we provide assistance with. Lost persons, floods, tornados, are example of highly localized disasters in which Internet access is still readily available. For those who do work with emergency communications, the biggest issue usually the last mile communications. In just about any disaster that has occurred, communications has been available within just a few miles of the impacted area. To support this, I've got a portable repeater that I can deploy as close to the disaster area as Internet allows me. At the worse, a D-STAR repeater without Internet is just as functional as a FM repeater. At its best, a D-STAR repeater is a mechanism by which we can remotely talk into disaster areas. Except for disasters in remote areas such as Haiti, existing communications infrastructure is often capable of sustaining much more than the Amateur Radio equipment. Cellular companies have generators and cells on wheels that they can backfill. Telephone Central Offices run off of huge batteries that can sustain long outages. Many public service organizations use communications facilities that are much more robust than ours. So how do we compete, how do we provide extra value? In my opinion, D-STAR gives us an edge up. I know that a lot of state and local government officials also believe so, which is why they've funded a number of deployments. Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Holman Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:40 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Neil, The Internet is a very useful thing. And I am not anti-Internet in any way. I just argue against depending on it as a primary transport medium for amateurs. The words Internet and Security should never be used in the same sentence unless they are talking about the lack of security on the Internet. The easy connectivity that the Internet offers is a strong lure, but it is also a weakness. There are a number of EComm systems that are doing Internet linking using IRLP/Eckolink to link their repeaters together. And then they say that this will be there in an emergency. Having been through a few of those, the Internet (like electricity, fuel and roads) is usually one of the first things that is lost. Some of the floods they have had in the mid-west have shown that weakness. We are supposed to be more robust than that. We are supposed to work when all that other stuff fails. Packet has suffered from routing issues (something the Internet does as second nature) since I learned about it a long time ago. The lack of routing ability is why I never got into it. It was good for a couple of hops, but past that it was a crap-shoot that you would be able to route your message without a lot of playing around. I believe that had a lot to do with the collapse and the transition to the Internet. Today, should something happen to the Internet, I highly doubt (keep in mind that I am not a packet expert) that a message could get from one side of the country to the other using packet, without putting it on some other mode. That generally means that some manual transaction has to occur. We use packet here in Tucson, but only as a local thing, almost like APRS (with larger messages). I know we can get stuff to Phoenix with Packet, but I doubt that we could reach CA, NM or even Flagstaff with packet from here without some manual intervention if the Internet went away. I will have to ask someone who is much more versed in packet than I am. By the same argument though, if you are running packet over the Internet, it isn't packet radio any more, it is email. In that sense, everyone practices packet these days. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
The rights they have to tell you NO to antennas are the rights you freely gave up when moving into a covenant controlled area. They didn't take them from you. I specifically moved to a neighborhood without covenants but give up being able to tell a neighbor they can't store junk or recreational vehicles, commercial vehicles etc on their property unless city ordnances offer protection. The city ordnances I live by comply with federal law allowing me to have up to 75 ft structure as long as it doesn't fall into a neighbors domain! Sent via BlackBerry -Original Message- From: David Holman aikidav...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:07:11 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Neil, The dongle is a good opportunity for those that have no choice, but is still no substitute for a real radio. I know, DStar isn't everywhere, YET. :-D The part of your message that bothers me is: Given that some have restrictions on antenna's and planning regs I suppose we could make exceptions Why should we have to make exceptions?? Why should we have to accept this as a part of our lives?? WE (all the people of the world) need to start putting an end to or fighting back against anything that oppresses or takes away individual rights and freedoms. What gives them the right to say we can't have an antenna. There is a brainwashing effort out there, and it is huge and very quiet, that it is OK, acceptable and normal to surrender your individual rights and freedoms to someone else: HOAs, zoning boards, local governments, schools and others. This is wrong. Dead Wrong! We are loosing more and more individual rights and freedoms everyday. And WE need to stand up and fight this. Unfortunately they are very entrenched. This doesn't mean to start a revolt (which probably won't go well). It means to get involved with these organizations to help them govern the interactions between people and not the step on individual rights and freedoms. They should not be able to tell you that you can't have an antenna (that would be an individual freedom). They can tell you that you have to work to solve interference (the interaction). Or that you can't have an antenna over a certain height because it might fall on your neighbor's property (Safety issue). Other than that, they have no right to tell you that you can't have an antenna or flag of a cockroach or whatever. Have a great day, David, AC7DS --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com wrote: From: Neil barrym...@ntlworld.com [Snip]
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Another newbie question for all of you: I wanted to perform an echo test, and was wondering if it is a universal thing such as: repeater name (space) E for instance: KI6JKA_E would perform an echo test to find out if I am making it into the system? The other question I have, is it necessary when calling a specific station (I have an IC 91AD) and I have noticed in some cases there is a / before a call sign. is that what typically is supossed to be there? Or is that only specific cases? Wish there was a more user friendly manual which explains why the / is there or absent. Thank you for answering my questions! CAT KG6PPA
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
The E (Echo) function is provided by DPLUS and is on essentially every repeater. The UR position should generically have CQCQCQ in it. The / is an indicator to perform call sign routing. It should only be there is you are doing call sign routing. For more examples, check out the D-STAR Calculator at www.DSTARInfo.comhttp://www.DSTARInfo.com Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Catrina White Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:14 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Another newbie question for all of you: I wanted to perform an echo test, and was wondering if it is a universal thing such as: repeater name (space) E for instance: KI6JKA_E would perform an echo test to find out if I am making it into the system? The other question I have, is it necessary when calling a specific station (I have an IC 91AD) and I have noticed in some cases there is a / before a call sign. is that what typically is supossed to be there? Or is that only specific cases? Wish there was a more user friendly manual which explains why the / is there or absent. Thank you for answering my questions! CAT KG6PPA
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
OOPS!! forgot to ask one more thing.. Why when you imput someone's call sign in the Ur call sign do you need to put 3 empty spaces? what happens if you dont imput that? does that mean it wont work?
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. (And what is being proposed in the US is not Socialized medicine, the UK has socialized medicine, read government owned and operated -- we are about the only developed country that doesn't provide universal healthcare and there are a lot of models, not just the socialized medicine of the UK which the insurance companies have used as their boogie man. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_healthcare to see the various approaches -- if you want to discuss off list, please email me directly.) On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Holman wrote: Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
is this really dstar related Fran Signature -- Fran http://www.miele-family.com/weather On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, John Hays j...@hays.org wrote: While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. (And what is being proposed in the US is not Socialized medicine, the UK has socialized medicine, read government owned and operated -- we are about the only developed country that doesn't provide universal healthcare and there are a lot of models, not just the socialized medicine of the UK which the insurance companies have used as their boogie man. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_healthcare to see the various approaches -- if you want to discuss off list, please email me directly.) On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Holman wrote: Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
No its not, and I suspect most people are bored with the ranting and raving in this thread. With ill informed opinions on Icoms range of expensive junk repeaters to social care for the elderly. None of it useful and hardly relevant in the context of this group. Whilst I respect peoples personal views, some of this stuff has a bitter and twisted taste about it, and does not make for interesting reading or make any positive contribution to the subject matter of the group. Dex. M0TMX 2010/1/20 Francis Miele f...@miele-family.com is this really dstar related -- Fran http://www.miele-family.com/weather On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, John Hays j...@hays.org wrote: While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. (And what is being proposed in the US is not Socialized medicine, the UK has socialized medicine, read government owned and operated -- we are about the only developed country that doesn't provide universal healthcare and there are a lot of models, not just the socialized medicine of the UK which the insurance companies have used as their boogie man. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_healthcare to see the various approaches -- if you want to discuss off list, please email me directly.) On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Holman wrote: Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE http://k7ve.org PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On Jan 20, 2010, at 2:14 PM, Catrina White wrote: Another newbie question for all of you: I wanted to perform an echo test, and was wondering if it is a universal thing such as: repeater name (space) E for instance: KI6JKA_E would perform an echo test to find out if I am making it into the system? The other question I have, is it necessary when calling a specific station (I have an IC 91AD) and I have noticed in some cases there is a / before a call sign. is that what typically is supossed to be there? Or is that only specific cases? Wish there was a more user friendly manual which explains why the / is there or absent. Thank you for answering my questions! CAT KG6PPA Cat, What you are dealing with is two different addressing schemes, overloaded on one another, and not well integrated. Native D-STAR does not have any notion of linking -- it uses callsign routing. There are two choices for the UR field in callsign routing (under the current design): If you are calling an individual station, you put their callsign in the UR: field, so if you want to call your friend K6XYZ on repeater KI6JKA B, then you would set up as follows: UR: K6XYZ MY: KG6PPA RPT1: KI6JKA B RPT2: KI6JKA G What will happen then, is the repeater KI6JKA B will repeat your signal from its controller to a computer with the gateway software (KI6JKA G). The gateway software will lookup the location of K6XYZ and relay your signal to the gateway attached to the repeater where K6XYZ was last heard. No link is established, your signal is just relayed over the Internet, transmission by transmission. K6XYZ would swap the UR/MY above and put his local RPT1 and RPT2 in his radio and could likewise reply to you. (There is a button on the radio to do this automatically.) The second case, is you just want to talk to anyone on a specific repeater. For example, if you just wanted to ask someone in Salt Lake City, UT how the skiing is today, you would put that repeater's callsign in the UR field, prefixed with a /. That repeater is KF6RAL B (70cm) or KF6RAL C (2m) or KF6RAL A (23cm). So you setup as follows: UR: /KF6RALB MY: KG6PPA RPT1: KI6JKA B RPT2: KI6JKA G This tells the gateway to relay your signal specifically to the repeater KF6RAL B (the space gets pushed out because there are only 8 characters in the callsign field). This is just like the previous example, no link is created, only your signal is relayed and someone replying to you must either put your callsign in the UR field or put / KI6JKAB in the UR field (either will get the signal back out the repeater you called from). The second system is based on bolt on software from AA4RC called DPLUS. It creates links based on psuedo-callsigns, these links relay everything heard on one repeater to the other and vice versa. Using KF6RAL as the example again. You initiate the link using: UR: KF6RALBL MY: KG6PPA RPT1: KI6JKA B RPT2: KI6JKA G The B again is pushed left by the L (for Link) because of the 8 character limit. If a callsign is less than 7 characters your radio will put the spaces in for you. If it has a designator like KF6RAL B, you must space fill to put the B in the 8th position. E.g, for me, you would put in K7VE P (for Portable), with 3 spaces between the E and P, but to call my main callsign you just put in K7VE --- anything you put into the 8 characters has meaning, so if you put in K7VE ! (one space) that is not going to get to me, since the 1 makes the callsign unique. Oh, yeah, when your are done with the link, set the UR to something with U (for unlink) in the 8th position, like UR:U Hope this helps. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Sort of what I said, wasn't it? On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Declan McGlone wrote: No its not, and I suspect most people are bored with the ranting and raving in this thread. With ill informed opinions on Icoms range of expensive junk repeaters to social care for the elderly. None of it useful and hardly relevant in the context of this group. Whilst I respect peoples personal views, some of this stuff has a bitter and twisted taste about it, and does not make for interesting reading or make any positive contribution to the subject matter of the group. Dex. M0TMX 2010/1/20 Francis Miele f...@miele-family.com is this really dstar related -- Fran On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, John Hays j...@hays.org wrote: While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Fax: 866-309-6077 Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
John, I agree with you about moving this discussion off the list. But one more thing, I strongly suggest that you read the bill that passed in congress. I did. It is not what is portrayed on that Wiki. It is many times worse than what you are calling socialized medicine. David, AC7DS --- On Wed, 1/20/10, John Hays j...@hays.org wrote: From: John Hays j...@hays.org Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 6:24 PM While I have strong opinions about personal rights and society's needs, particularly as relates to both HOAs and the way this country provides healthcare -- this topic should be moved off list. (And what is being proposed in the US is not Socialized medicine, the UK has socialized medicine, read government owned and operated -- we are about the only developed country that doesn't provide universal healthcare and there are a lot of models, not just the socialized medicine of the UK which the insurance companies have used as their boogie man. See http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Universal_ healthcare to see the various approaches -- if you want to discuss off list, please email me directly.) On Jan 20, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Holman wrote: Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS ___ John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Email: j...@hays.org
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 1/20/2010 4:16 PM, Catrina White wrote: OOPS!! forgot to ask one more thing.. Why when you imput someone's call sign in the Ur call sign do you need to put 3 empty spaces? what happens if you dont imput that? does that mean it wont work? No. You only need spaces if there's a character in the last field. Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Hi David, Well that's interesting because here In Colorado your free to live in any part of the community that suits your needs. The cost or distance from work etc. Is your own cost to bare. It is a choice to live in a community which has an HOA or covenants as much as its a choice to move elsewhere like I did. I wanted high elevation and no covenants so I had to choose an older established neighborhood. I'm surrounded by new covenant controlled neighborhoods with HOA fees. Even the city I chose to live in has sufficient ordnances that require property maintenance, limit times vehicles can park in front of the house, etc. If I don't like the restrictions I can move to a trashy community, my choice. Those guidelines we're set before I moved in so no rights were lost. They weren't mine to have by choice. I can't believe they came to you after you moved in and told you there was now an HOA without prior notice and a chance to vote or opt out. Makes no sense and you still have the right to move elsewhere although it sounds like you would not be happy either way. It could be Worse... Fast Tracks here in Denver metro has used emanate domain to force people from their ancestry homes. The cost of progress in society. Others lost property values while some gain in value. Just be thankful you have a home and can complain about such things, you could be in Haiti or the likes! Sent via BlackBerry -Original Message- From: David Holman aikidav...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:16:40 To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Hey Barry, Actually they did. The first freedom they took was your freedom of choice. And in some areas, its not a choice of living in an HOA controlled commune or not, its a choice of which one is worse, which is no choice. If you don't want to live in a commune, you have to move ridiculously far away (like here). We chose the school district. To live in the school district, we have to live in an HOA controlled commune. I didn't choose to join the HOA, I chose the house. HOAs are NOT voluntary membership organizations. The HOA was forced on me. They didn't give me a choice about whether or not I wanted to join. They took my freedom of choice. And until everyone starts to see it this way, we will continue to loose our rights daily. It is NOT OK, customary, normal or acceptable to take individual rights and freedoms, for any reason outside of the fact that a person has proven they can't handle them. You moved into a non-commune area, but you didn't give up any rights. You don't have the right to tell your neighbor anything about how to run his life, in the first place. If it is not health or safety related or somehow interacts with you, you have no right to force any your beliefs on your neighbor (what is pretty or aesthetically pleasing is a belief). If you are afraid of your neighbors, I would suggest moving into an apartment where the property owner does have the right to tell the residents what they can and can't do on his property. Become friends with the property owner. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I understood that!! YAY!! Thank you for the help. John, that was fabulous!! now I understand it.. And my attention was definatly captured when you mentioned skiing in there! LOL!! I will be sure to use that next time! LOL! SO, with that, I will let everyone else continue their ON TOPIC discussion! YAY! I will try it all out when I start my commute at 6:30 pm PST! 73's, CAT
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
At 08:28 AM 1/21/2010, you wrote: What many of us do is to utilize every means possible to provide communications. There are times when atmospheric conditions make it impossible to use HF. There are times when any repeater will go off the air for some reason. What makes Amateur Radio reliable is the large toolbox that we have available to us. I agree totally Ed. The more tools we have, the more able we are able to conduct our operations. Today, Internet assisted modes enable us to do things that were not feasible with HF, such as running nets with reliable global reach. As you say, the last mile (or as in the case of major disasters, the last 100 miles) is always the biggest challenge. Because of the low density of IRLP, Echolink and especially D-STAR here (compared to sheer land area - coverage here in town is good), I'm always interested in new ways of using these newer modes in conjunction with HF, which is usually the best choice for regional coverage down here, to extend the usefulness of HF into areas where large antennas are not feasible, or where high noise levels affect reception. The current crop of remote bases help, but I'm looking even bigger. :) Where does D-STAR fit? It's still too early for us down here to tell. The emergency communicators don't yet see D-STAR as a priority, though several of us are keeping a close eye on its development, for possible future use. As to the Internet being the first thing lost, that indeed is evidently, since you say, your experience, but it isn't my experience. During the LA earthquakes, Internet access existed. During Katrina, there was Internet access in downtown New Orleans. I'm suspecting that there's still Internet access in Haiti. There has been the odd snippet that suggests Haiti still has some Internet access in places. At the worse, a D-STAR repeater without Internet is just as functional as a FM repeater. At its best, a D-STAR repeater is a mechanism by which we can remotely talk into disaster areas. Inded, a good summary. :) 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I have no problem with my homeowner association restrictions, since I voluntarily signed the CCRs when I purchased the house. I have no one to blame but myself. But I do think Hams in the US should lobby to ask the FCC to extend PRB-1 to apply to Ham antennas. For television antennas, for example satellite TV antennas, my HOA cannot completely block those, although they can ask that owners make it look reasonably good. I'd like the same ruling to apply to Ham antennas and override any CCRs that might have been signed by homeowners. Anyhow, I'm able to put up some stealth HF antennas, but the HOA rule does cause me problems getting to D-Star. If I could put up a short tower with rotor and beam, I could easily work 3 different D-Star repeaters. As it is, my hidden antenna is able to work just one. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: David Holman To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Neil, The dongle is a good opportunity for those that have no choice, but is still no substitute for a real radio. I know, DStar isn't everywhere, YET. :-D The part of your message that bothers me is: Given that some have restrictions on antenna's and planning regs I suppose we could make exceptions Why should we have to make exceptions?? Why should we have to accept this as a part of our lives?? WE (all the people of the world) need to start putting an end to or fighting back against anything that oppresses or takes away individual rights and freedoms. What gives them the right to say we can't have an antenna. There is a brainwashing effort out there, and it is huge and very quiet, that it is OK, acceptable and normal to surrender your individual rights and freedoms to someone else: HOAs, zoning boards, local governments, schools and others. This is wrong. Dead Wrong! We are loosing more and more individual rights and freedoms everyday. And WE need to stand up and fight this. Unfortunately they are very entrenched. This doesn't mean to start a revolt (which probably won't go well). It means to get involved with these organizations to help them govern the interactions between people and not the step on individual rights and freedoms. They should not be able to tell you that you can't have an antenna (that would be an individual freedom). They can tell you that you have to work to solve interference (the interaction). Or that you can't have an antenna over a certain height because it might fall on your neighbor's property (Safety issue). Other than that, they have no right to tell you that you can't have an antenna or flag of a cockroach or whatever. Have a great day, David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
One last thign.. I'm sorry, I forgot what call sign routing is. I found an explanation but I do not understand it. If you could explain it to me in regular lay terms, I would appreciate it. Please TRIM your replies or set your email program not to include the original message in reply unless needed for clarity. ThanksYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: dstar_digital-dig...@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: dstar_digital-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 1/18/2010 2:08 AM, J. Moen wrote: Imagine a USB Dongle with a 10 milliwatt FM transceiver built into it. It plugs into your PC that runs dongle software to allow connection into the D-Star network of repeaters and reflectors. D-Star radios, most likely HTs, that are nearby, can use this DV Access Point to connect in. I see lots of utility in this. You can roam around your shack, in some cases, perhaps around your property, and stay connected. Or, check into a motel or hotel with internet access, set up the DVAP, and you and your travelling friends can connect into your favorite reflector with your D-Star HTs. It's a niche, but maybe a useful one. In terms of something more useful, I could see it being used at well-connected Emergency Operations Centers, Comm Vans/Trailers that have good IP access, etc. I hope it's way more tolerant to IP latency than the DV-Dongle. Many real uses for this in emergency comms, but those places that would need it are often hooked to the Net via Satellite-based IP. Do you travel with hams often? I don't unless it's to Dayton or somewhere similar. Maybe useful at a Regional ARRL convention or hamfest. We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The brain damage level got too high, even for me, and I'm pretty patient, since I work in Customer Service for an equipment (telco, non-radio) manufacturer and understand the Corporate slowness to decide, etc. So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Rumors are that this DVAP is being developed by the same people who brought us the DV Dongle. I doubt it will officially appear on the website until it is generally available. I didn't think it was a rumor... didn't Robin actually mention that he was involved on one of the lists? I can't think of a whole lot of folks who have the motivation to build such a thing other than the developers of the DV-Dongle. Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Nate, That's a real good point about the DVAP being useful at Hamfests. I would think the same would be true for club meetings, as long as someone can arrange for a decent internet connection. I guess I'm not surprised about your experience with ICOM and their comments about non-ICOM D-Star software. My own view is that recent D-Star growth is partly fueled by non-ICOM inventions, from DPlus to the DV Dongle. ICOM is making more money than they would have because of all this creative activity. But, corporations will be corporations. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy On 1/18/2010 2:08 AM, J. Moen wrote: Imagine a USB Dongle with a 10 milliwatt FM transceiver built into it. It plugs into your PC that runs dongle software to allow connection into the D-Star network of repeaters and reflectors. D-Star radios, most likely HTs, that are nearby, can use this DV Access Point to connect in. I see lots of utility in this. You can roam around your shack, in some cases, perhaps around your property, and stay connected. Or, check into a motel or hotel with internet access, set up the DVAP, and you and your travelling friends can connect into your favorite reflector with your D-Star HTs. It's a niche, but maybe a useful one. In terms of something more useful, I could see it being used at well-connected Emergency Operations Centers, Comm Vans/Trailers that have good IP access, etc. I hope it's way more tolerant to IP latency than the DV-Dongle. Many real uses for this in emergency comms, but those places that would need it are often hooked to the Net via Satellite-based IP. Do you travel with hams often? I don't unless it's to Dayton or somewhere similar. Maybe useful at a Regional ARRL convention or hamfest. We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The brain damage level got too high, even for me, and I'm pretty patient, since I work in Customer Service for an equipment (telco, non-radio) manufacturer and understand the Corporate slowness to decide, etc. So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Rumors are that this DVAP is being developed by the same people who brought us the DV Dongle. I doubt it will officially appear on the website until it is generally available. I didn't think it was a rumor... didn't Robin actually mention that he was involved on one of the lists? I can't think of a whole lot of folks who have the motivation to build such a thing other than the developers of the DV-Dongle. Nate WY0X
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Embedded From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:34 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy On 1/18/2010 2:08 AM, J. Moen wrote: Imagine a USB Dongle with a 10 milliwatt FM transceiver built into it. It plugs into your PC that runs dongle software to allow connection into the D-Star network of repeaters and reflectors. D-Star radios, most likely HTs, that are nearby, can use this DV Access Point to connect in. I see lots of utility in this. You can roam around your shack, in some cases, perhaps around your property, and stay connected. Or, check into a motel or hotel with internet access, set up the DVAP, and you and your travelling friends can connect into your favorite reflector with your D-Star HTs. It's a niche, but maybe a useful one. In terms of something more useful, I could see it being used at well-connected Emergency Operations Centers, Comm Vans/Trailers that have good IP access, etc. I hope it's way more tolerant to IP latency than the DV-Dongle. I suspect that the number one use will be people from inside their homes. Many real uses for this in emergency comms, but those places that would need it are often hooked to the Net via Satellite-based IP. Do you travel with hams often? I don't unless it's to Dayton or somewhere similar. Maybe useful at a Regional ARRL convention or hamfest. We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. The brain damage level got too high, even for me, and I'm pretty patient, since I work in Customer Service for an equipment (telco, non-radio) manufacturer and understand the Corporate slowness to decide, etc. So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Like I said, we’ve been doing it for years. Of course, to make best use of it, you should also schedule one or more forums to talk about D-STAR. Rumors are that this DVAP is being developed by the same people who brought us the DV Dongle. I doubt it will officially appear on the website until it is generally available. I didn't think it was a rumor... didn't Robin actually mention that he was involved on one of the lists? I can't think of a whole lot of folks who have the motivation to build such a thing other than the developers of the DV-Dongle. Definitely not a rumor, HRO has been taking orders for them (the initial shipment is really close to being sold out). It is indeed manufactured by the same group that does the DVDongle. Mark, KJ4VO has been testing one for over a month. Current estimates are that they first group will be available by the end of the month. And I believe that the transmitter is 20mW (hey that 3dB over 10mW) Robin announced it at Dayton last year and he is now showing the working device off at nearby events. It does exist, I’ve used and touched it. It’s even listed on HRO’s website. Ed WA4YIH
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I ordered mine weeks ago. I hear there were only 80 made in the initial batch and once they are gone there won't be anymore until Dayton Fran, W1FJM On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Woodrick, Ed ewoodr...@ed-com.com wrote: Embedded *From:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto: dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Nate Duehr *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:34 PM *To:* dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy On 1/18/2010 2:08 AM, J. Moen wrote: Imagine a USB Dongle with a 10 milliwatt FM transceiver built into it. It plugs into your PC that runs dongle software to allow connection into the D-Star network of repeaters and reflectors. D-Star radios, most likely HTs, that are nearby, can use this DV Access Point to connect in. I see lots of utility in this. You can roam around your shack, in some cases, perhaps around your property, and stay connected. Or, check into a motel or hotel with internet access, set up the DVAP, and you and your travelling friends can connect into your favorite reflector with your D-Star HTs. It's a niche, but maybe a useful one. In terms of something more useful, I could see it being used at well-connected Emergency Operations Centers, Comm Vans/Trailers that have good IP access, etc. I hope it's way more tolerant to IP latency than the DV-Dongle. I suspect that the number one use will be people from inside their homes. Many real uses for this in emergency comms, but those places that would need it are often hooked to the Net via Satellite-based IP. Do you travel with hams often? I don't unless it's to Dayton or somewhere similar. Maybe useful at a Regional ARRL convention or hamfest. We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. The brain damage level got too high, even for me, and I'm pretty patient, since I work in Customer Service for an equipment (telco, non-radio) manufacturer and understand the Corporate slowness to decide, etc. So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Like I said, we’ve been doing it for years. Of course, to make best use of it, you should also schedule one or more forums to talk about D-STAR. Rumors are that this DVAP is being developed by the same people who brought us the DV Dongle. I doubt it will officially appear on the website until it is generally available. I didn't think it was a rumor... didn't Robin actually mention that he was involved on one of the lists? I can't think of a whole lot of folks who have the motivation to build such a thing other than the developers of the DV-Dongle. Definitely not a rumor, HRO has been taking orders for them (the initial shipment is really close to being sold out). It is indeed manufactured by the same group that does the DVDongle. Mark, KJ4VO has been testing one for over a month. Current estimates are that they first group will be available by the end of the month. And I believe that the transmitter is 20mW (hey that 3dB over 10mW) Robin announced it at Dayton last year and he is now showing the working device off at nearby events. It does exist, I’ve used and touched it. It’s even listed on HRO’s website
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Inline comments and questions for you Ed. On 1/19/2010 11:37 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. I guess you have people with more money doing D-STAR around there, than around here. Who's paid for entire stacks to take to local events? They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. Ahh, didn't know that. Even more silly. Icom's relying on other folks to demo their products. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. In the U.S., the organization they chose to run the network (the Texas group) requires D-PLUS. If Icom won't put it on their own U.S. demo stack... that's stupid. Why am I even pointing this out? We're back into brain damage mode. There's nothing technically difficult about setting up a mobile stack, your comments that you take yours everywhere proves that. What point are you trying to make about theirs? All I'm reading into your message is that you (a volunteer with no monetary interest) is doing a better job at having mobile gear up and working at local events than the folks who have funding and are selling the product??? Was that the point you were trying to make? So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Like I said, we’ve been doing it for years. Of course, to make best use of it, you should also schedule one or more forums to talk about D-STAR. So I'm confused. Are you taking a hot-spot of some sort (Satoshi board) or a complete stack of official Icom repeaters? Just curious... goes back to the who the heck paid for that? question at the top. Forums are definitely required. I did two of them at the Colorado event and had lots of questions from folks later on, but all I could do was simplex demos. Back when I did talks on IRLP, I brought a Node and had it working via DIAL-UP IP in the hotel room on the GSM CODEC. I couldn't afford to bring a D-STAR Stack. We'll see how the pricing is on the hotspot. Maybe I will get one of those for such things. There's only about five events I'd want to take D-STAR to each year around here, really, and only two that have enough interested tech folks who'd want to hear about D-STAR... Nate WY0X
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I play with DStar and have played with it in a number of environments. I think that DStar is awesome, but we (the hams) really need to pry ICOM's icy grip off of it. The system is awesome, but the fact that no other manufacturers will play in this game is bad. I am not much of a dongle supporter because we are radio amateurs, not internet amateurs. The internet is a great thing, but we should not become dependent on it, and that is what the dongle does. We need to figure out how to set up an RF network that will support routing of the DStar transmissions and move away from the internet. Again, that would require us to pry ICOM's icy grip off DStar. I am not sure how to do that. I will leave that up to people much smarter than me. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
H... If Icom themselves aren't interested in showing off their kit, then open source/homebrew it must be. Would't it be good if there was an Icom stand next to a homebrew D-Star repeater group, one side costs thousands, the other, less than $100. I think the message is clear, I know what I'd rather have, a sub $100 box that out performs well an expensive piece of junk that doesn't work 1/2 as well. I talk from experiance too, if I could actually say there was an Icom VHF box over here that works as well as any of the homebrew ones over here, then I would not have to make this statement. GB3WE is proof of this, just worked it today almost 100 miles away, show me an Icom box that will do the same... I must admit, I am curious to the new DVAP, after all, a Lot have D-Star radios and no access, this will be a good seller 73 de Neil G7EBY. - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Cc: Woodrick, Ed Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy all Inline comments and questions for you Ed. On 1/19/2010 11:37 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. I guess you have people with more money doing D-STAR around there, than around here. Who's paid for entire stacks to take to local events? They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. Ahh, didn't know that. Even more silly. Icom's relying on other folks to demo their products. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. In the U.S., the organization they chose to run the network (the Texas group) requires D-PLUS. If Icom won't put it on their own U.S. demo stack... that's stupid. Why am I even pointing this out? We're back into brain damage mode. There's nothing technically difficult about setting up a mobile stack, your comments that you take yours everywhere proves that. What point are you trying to make about theirs? All I'm reading into your message is that you (a volunteer with no monetary interest) is doing a better job at having mobile gear up and working at local events than the folks who have funding and are selling the product??? Was that the point you were trying to make? So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest, and sell more Icom repeaters and radios, because they're not interested in showing off their own technology... Sure, why not? ;-) Like I said, we’ve been doing it for years. Of course, to make best use of it, you should also schedule one or more forums to talk about D-STAR. So I'm confused. Are you taking a hot-spot of some sort (Satoshi board) or a complete stack of official Icom repeaters? Just curious... goes back to the who the heck paid for that? question at the top. Forums are definitely required. I did two of them at the Colorado event and had lots of questions from folks later on, but all I could do was simplex demos. Back when I did talks on IRLP, I brought a Node and had it working via DIAL-UP IP in the hotel room on the GSM CODEC. I couldn't afford to bring a D-STAR Stack. We'll see how the pricing is on the hotspot. Maybe I will get one of those for such things. There's only about five events I'd want to take D-STAR to each year around here, really, and only two that have enough interested tech folks who'd want to hear about D-STAR
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
I agree, those that sit in front of a PC all day without RF are not 'radio' amateurs. The thing about D-Star IS the connectivity, its no different nowadays than having electricity at a site really, the internet is a utility and almost available everywhere, like roads and fuel, so used in its proper place, nobody should have a problem recognising it as long as its not the main reason we have it. We all appreciate street lighting, but don't moan that its using electricity after all. (If you see where I'm coming from.) A lot of packet backbones went over to the internet for reliability and security, it didn't kill the mode, although we have stepped in at a later stage with D-Star here, lets not take a step backwards. 73 de Neil G7EBY. - Original Message - From: David Holman To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy I play with DStar and have played with it in a number of environments. I think that DStar is awesome, but we (the hams) really need to pry ICOM's icy grip off of it. The system is awesome, but the fact that no other manufacturers will play in this game is bad. I am not much of a dongle supporter because we are radio amateurs, not internet amateurs. The internet is a great thing, but we should not become dependent on it, and that is what the dongle does. We need to figure out how to set up an RF network that will support routing of the DStar transmissions and move away from the internet. Again, that would require us to pry ICOM's icy grip off DStar. I am not sure how to do that. I will leave that up to people much smarter than me. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 01/20/2010 06:52 AM, Neil wrote: H... If Icom themselves aren't interested in showing off their kit, then open source/homebrew it must be. Would't it be good if there was an Icom stand next to a homebrew D-Star repeater group, one side costs thousands, the other, less than $100. I think the message is clear, I know what I'd rather have, a sub $100 box that out performs well an expensive piece of junk that doesn't work 1/2 as well. I talk from experiance too, if I could actually say there was an Icom VHF box over here that works as well as any of the homebrew ones over here, then I would not have to make this statement. GB3WE is proof of this, just worked it today almost 100 miles away, show me an Icom box that will do the same... I work VK4RWN (Icom stack) from 100 mile here and VK3RMM (Icom stack) has been worked from 200 mile. From what I hear Icom have improved the jumpers etc in the modules on the current market. Location location Location, the success of a repeater is the same as for real estate hihi. Its good to see new development at an economic levels, as long as it complies with Trust server and dstar standards. vk4tux
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
On 01/20/2010 07:01 AM, Neil wrote: I agree, those that sit in front of a PC all day without RF are not 'radio' amateurs. Well DV Dongle users still get to TX on RF, just via UDP first. vk4tux
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
If its the ONLY way onto D-Star, then OK. I have one myself, for a while, it was the only option. I do know people that use anything but RF all day long to chat. Given that some have restrictions on antenna's and planning regs I suppose we could make exceptions, its just those that won't make the effort that bug me. 73 Neil. - Original Message - From: Adrian To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy On 01/20/2010 07:01 AM, Neil wrote: I agree, those that sit in front of a PC all day without RF are not 'radio' amateurs. Well DV Dongle users still get to TX on RF, just via UDP first. vk4tux
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Again, inline, in red From: Nate Duehr [mailto:n...@natetech.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 2:11 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Cc: Woodrick, Ed Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. I guess you have people with more money doing D-STAR around there, than around here. Who's paid for entire stacks to take to local events? As with many Amateur Radio activities, there are always some who will go to the extremes. Many of the repeaters, D-STAR and FM are owned by individuals, there’s an amazing number of $10,000 radios being sold. Sometimes you just to interest the right people at the right time and you can get all sorts of things. There’s definitely a snowball effect. You have to push the snowball very hard to get moving, but once moving, it has a lot of momentum. Here in the Southeast, the snowball is definitely rolling. It still needs pushing, but then again it often starts rolling faster than I can run. But looking around the country, there are a number of areas with relatively high penetration of D-STAR, here in the Atlanta area, Alabama, Middle Florida, California, Texas, Washington State (a newcomer), Chicago, Milwaukee, NY/NJ, and a few more. Now, no one is taking an entire operational stack to a hamfest, too many problems with frequency coordination for 2M, and just way too big when you include duplexers and other stuff. But what is common is a 440 MHz only stack. You can put an entire package in a 12U case that is readily transportable. I’ve got one (KJ4BDF) and Mark KJ4VO has another (WB4HRO). There’s one or two in Alabama and I believe a couple of more around the country. Mine is designed as an ARES portable repeater, but it doesn’t second duty (and provides excellent practice) for hamfests and meetings. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. Ahh, didn't know that. Even more silly. Icom's relying on other folks to demo their products. Absolutely, and that’s the way Amateur Radio has been for years. I certainly hope that you are going around to clubs and events and talking up D-STAR and not expecting Icom to do so. Icom will bring in the icebox and they show it in their standard booth. But as to having a live repeater, well, there is this little thing with the FCC about using Amateur Radio to promote your business. All I'm reading into your message is that you (a volunteer with no monetary interest) is doing a better job at having mobile gear up and working at local events than the folks who have funding and are selling the product??? Was that the point you were trying to make? I’m not selling Icom, I’m selling D-STAR. So I'm confused. Are you taking a hot-spot of some sort (Satoshi board) or a complete stack of official Icom repeaters? Just curious... goes back to the who the heck paid for that? question at the top. They are standard Icom based repeaters, bought off the shelf like all the others. I paid for mine. Forums are definitely required. I did two of them at the Colorado event and had lots of questions from folks later on, but all I could do was simplex demos. Back when I did talks on IRLP, I brought a Node and had it working via DIAL-UP IP in the hotel room on the GSM CODEC. I couldn't afford to bring a D-STAR Stack. Then you are fighting the chicken and egg problem. You’ve got to find some way to break out of it. The DVDongle is an excellent way to demonstrate at meetings. You can connect audio up to speakers and people can see and hear what you are doing. The DV Access Point will give similar capabilities, but I still find that it is easier and more audible to use a DVDongle to do presentations. HT speakers at full volume make any signal sound crappy. “But I’m not demonstrating real radio” Yep, and that’s a great feature. With D-STAR, not only can you use a radio, but you can use the DVDongle or the DVAP. You can extend the D-STAR network anywhere that there’s Internet coverage and beyond. Just this morning I heard Mark KJ4VO talking to Kawa in Japan. Kawa’s HT battery died and he just switched to the DVDongle and continued his conversation. It’s more tools in the tool belt. We'll see how the pricing is on the hotspot. Maybe I will get one of those for such things. There's only about five events I'd want to take D-STAR to each year around here, really, and only two that have enough interested tech folks who'd want to hear about D-STAR... Presenting D-STAR is appropriate for ANY event. Don’t
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Remember, no other manufacturer is incorrect. Inet Labs has become a big player. Icom doesn't really have an icy grip on D-STAR, it's the other manufacturers that are too stupid to adopt it. As to dependency on the DVDongle, it should be treated as just another tool in the tool belt. There are some places where it is much more optimal for communications to use a DVDongle. We would be paying ourselves and our customers (during emergency communications) a disservice if we only used one thing when other solutions are available. p.s. we should not become dependent on it was the exact same phrase that the AMers and SSBers used when talking about FM repeaters. After all, you can't trust a FM repeater to always be there. It can lose power, it can be blown away, it can be. But I think that most people would now agree that repeaters are a key part of our emergency response arsenal. As to setting up the network to support RF only connections, well shortly put, it ain't going to happen. The infrastructure required to hook up all of the repeaters in a single major city would be prohibitively expensive. (as is evidenced in the cost of cellular networks). Let alone the ability to connect overseas. Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Holman Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:17 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy I play with DStar and have played with it in a number of environments. I think that DStar is awesome, but we (the hams) really need to pry ICOM's icy grip off of it. The system is awesome, but the fact that no other manufacturers will play in this game is bad. I am not much of a dongle supporter because we are radio amateurs, not internet amateurs. The internet is a great thing, but we should not become dependent on it, and that is what the dongle does. We need to figure out how to set up an RF network that will support routing of the DStar transmissions and move away from the internet. Again, that would require us to pry ICOM's icy grip off DStar. I am not sure how to do that. I will leave that up to people much smarter than me. 73 David, AC7DS
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Icom DOES show off their equipment. At most major hamfests you’ll find the icebox (full stack repeater) and all of their radios. And I’d like to know where you can get a good transmitter and receiver for under $100. Unless you are talking about older, used equipment. For a standard repeater, the Icom modules often represent less than half the cost of deployment. Antennas, feedline, and duplexers can often dwarf the cost of the equipment. And the Icom modules are relatively cheap when compared to commercial radios, especially digital repeaters. I’ll totally agree that the RF sections used in the Icom modules don’t match that of a GE or Motorola repeater. (They also don’t have the cost) But they are far from being a piece of junk. I know quite a few repeaters on the air that have exceptional coverage, as good as the collocated FM repeaters. Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:53 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy H... If Icom themselves aren't interested in showing off their kit, then open source/homebrew it must be. Would't it be good if there was an Icom stand next to a homebrew D-Star repeater group, one side costs thousands, the other, less than $100. I think the message is clear, I know what I'd rather have, a sub $100 box that out performs well an expensive piece of junk that doesn't work 1/2 as well. I talk from experiance too, if I could actually say there was an Icom VHF box over here that works as well as any of the homebrew ones over here, then I would not have to make this statement. GB3WE is proof of this, just worked it today almost 100 miles away, show me an Icom box that will do the same... I must admit, I am curious to the new DVAP, after all, a Lot have D-Star radios and no access, this will be a good seller 73 de Neil G7EBY. - Original Message - From: Nate Duehrmailto:n...@natetech.com To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.commailto:dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Cc: Woodrick, Edmailto:ewoodr...@ed-com.com Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy all Inline comments and questions for you Ed. On 1/19/2010 11:37 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. I guess you have people with more money doing D-STAR around there, than around here. Who's paid for entire stacks to take to local events? They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. Ahh, didn't know that. Even more silly. Icom's relying on other folks to demo their products. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. In the U.S., the organization they chose to run the network (the Texas group) requires D-PLUS. If Icom won't put it on their own U.S. demo stack... that's stupid. Why am I even pointing this out? We're back into brain damage mode. There's nothing technically difficult about setting up a mobile stack, your comments that you take yours everywhere proves that. What point are you trying to make about theirs? All I'm reading into your message is that you (a volunteer with no monetary interest) is doing a better job at having mobile gear up and working at local events than the folks who have funding and are selling the product??? Was that the point you were trying to make? So yeah, put up a hotspot at a hamfest
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
David, simple answer to your statement is this, don't install Dplus. Without Dplus, your now a prime ICOM G2 Gateway without the extra goodies. No Linking, no reflector access, nada. You only get callsign routing, and Multicasting. You have taken away the internet portion of it's capabilities. You still have (for full stack or port AD) internet for the 23cm side, which would be email, file transfers, and so on. not to mention the ability to do VoIP. ( yes, I have ran Echolink over 23cm Dstar Data, and it works) The main thing is this, we do not have the money to invest in 10Ghz PTP gear, nor is it widely used in the US at all There for, the Gateway portion uses the internet to conduct it's callsign routing function. Anything less then that, you are working with a stand alone repeater site with no outside world communication. I agree, as does all the other admins, the software is less then desirable, BUT, it works. We just have to use a different kind of an interface to make things more interesting to the ham community. 73 from the KJ4ACN region of West Central Florida. Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM / WQFK-894 Fla. D-Star Tech Support Group http://www.florida-dstar.info http://www.florida-dstar.info/ Polk ARES A.E.C. http://www.polkemcomm.org http://www.polkemcomm.org/ BB8330 PIN: 30965B58 _ From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Holman Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 3:17 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy I play with DStar and have played with it in a number of environments. I think that DStar is awesome, but we (the hams) really need to pry ICOM's icy grip off of it. The system is awesome, but the fact that no other manufacturers will play in this game is bad. I am not much of a dongle supporter because we are radio amateurs, not internet amateurs. The internet is a great thing, but we should not become dependent on it, and that is what the dongle does. We need to figure out how to set up an RF network that will support routing of the DStar transmissions and move away from the internet. Again, that would require us to pry ICOM's icy grip off DStar. I am not sure how to do that. I will leave that up to people much smarter than me. 73 David, AC7DS
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Well Neil, come on over to Grand Rapids, MI USA and I will gladly show you WX8GRR that is easily workable on an HT at 40 miles out. Mobile coverage is well beyond that at any time of day or night, and it's an Icom box. It was a different approach for us to buy something like that as our group here has always been the homebrew types and have had new things running in this area way before other groups. It may not be homebrew but it sure is pretty. Oh, and it works well. I think that those who can build homebrew might very well like doing that, and honestly my next DStar repeater probably will be homebrew, but I have been on and using DStar for a few years now, and the homebrew items are just coming out and guess what they are modeled after, you got it, the shiny Icom equipment that I have been using for several years already. Please don't knock it just because you have a preference, we all have preferences and at times we all do things differently. To start now I might very well indeed go homebrew but I wouldn't trade off the things I have learned and done in the last few years since I we were able to purchase equipment. Dan Thompson d...@waycom.com H... If Icom themselves aren't interested in showing off their kit, then open source/homebrew it must be. Would't it be good if there was an Icom stand next to a homebrew D-Star repeater group, one side costs thousands, the other, less than $100. I think the message is clear, I know what I'd rather have, a sub $100 box that out performs well an expensive piece of junk that doesn't work 1/2 as well. I talk from experiance too, if I could actually say there was an Icom VHF box over here that works as well as any of the homebrew ones over here, then I would not have to make this statement. GB3WE is proof of this, just worked it today almost 100 miles away, show me an Icom box that will do the same... I must admit, I am curious to the new DVAP, after all, a Lot have D-Star radios and no access, this will be a good seller 73 de Neil G7EBY. - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Cc: Woodrick, Ed Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy all Inline comments and questions for you Ed. On 1/19/2010 11:37 AM, Woodrick, Ed wrote: We tried to have the stack in Icom's cabinet up and working (what sells radios better than hams with their own radios showing off the technology?!) for the ARRL Rocky Mtn Region Convention the last time it was in Colorado. I tried REALLY hard to get Icom Sales interested in properly setting up their road-show booth with a WORKING D-STAR stack, and ran into numerous willpower issues. They're not interested. That’s why there is a growing number of portable repeaters to provide that function. We haven’t had a hamfest around here in the last few years without a gateway connected stack. And for the last year, a number of the hamfests have had two different stacks deployed. I guess you have people with more money doing D-STAR around there, than around here. Who's paid for entire stacks to take to local events? They work with some people to get it running at Dayton I think, but offers of setting up mobile broadband routers, something that would use hotel WiFi and establish a VPN to get a static public IP, etc... were all rebuffed prior to the event. I gave up, as we all had better things to spend our time on than arguing with Icom. They also stated they could NOT (policy?) load D-Plus or any non-Icom software on the GW machine serving their official demo rack. The “demo” box that Icom has for hamfests is commonly called the icebox. (It looks like a refrigerator when closing) This isn’t the system (AFAIK) that has been used at Dayton. The Dayton system has been one that the Texas Team brings to the event. I also had mine up there last year. Ahh, didn't know that. Even more silly. Icom's relying on other folks to demo their products. I’m with them, I wouldn’t want anyone playing with my computers either. The icebox is used weekend after weekend and there is no time or personnel available to fix it. But again, I believe that it actually was the Texas stack that you are referring to. In the U.S., the organization they chose to run the network (the Texas group) requires D-PLUS. If Icom won't put it on their own U.S. demo stack... that's stupid. Why am I even pointing this out? We're back into brain damage mode. There's nothing technically difficult about setting up a mobile stack, your comments that you take yours everywhere proves that. What point are you trying to make about theirs? All I'm reading into your message is that you (a volunteer with no monetary interest) is doing a better job at having mobile gear up and working at local events than the folks who have funding and are selling the product??? Was that the point you were
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Imagine a USB Dongle with a 10 milliwatt FM transceiver built into it. It plugs into your PC that runs dongle software to allow connection into the D-Star network of repeaters and reflectors. D-Star radios, most likely HTs, that are nearby, can use this DV Access Point to connect in. I see lots of utility in this. You can roam around your shack, in some cases, perhaps around your property, and stay connected. Or, check into a motel or hotel with internet access, set up the DVAP, and you and your travelling friends can connect into your favorite reflector with your D-Star HTs. This is similar to people who are building Satoshi's GMSK Node Adapter, or one of several clone boards, and running KB9KHM's HotSpot software. Those work with non-ICOM transceivers to create either a simplex Access Point, or a D-Star compatible repeater. But that appoach requires quite a bit more technical skill. The DVAP should be much simpler to set up and use. And the fact that the built-in transceiver is low power is a real plus -- as it gets popular, it won't clutter up crowded VHF bands. Rumors are that this DVAP is being developed by the same people who brought us the DV Dongle. I doubt it will officially appear on the website until it is generally available. Jim - K6JM - Original Message - From: Mike Murphy To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy Pretty soon, there will be a new version of the dongle that will let you create a mini-pool of D-STAR RF coverage around your PC This got my attention. Can you please elaborate on this? I didn't see this on the DV Dongle web site. Thanks!
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
At 05:36 PM 1/17/2010, ad5rb wrote: If you want to hear the developers in person, there are a series of videos available from Gary Pearce, KN4AQ, at www.ARVideoNews.com Thanks for the plug, Richard. I'll add that the program Digital Voice for Amateur Radio is the one you want for a basic What is it? If you're in a radio club, it'll make a good meeting program or two. And I've got a bunch of articles and radio reviews you can download on the otherstuff page on the web site. I'll add that for over the road, when you're in range of a D-STAR repeater, you can connect it to reflectors with multiple repeaters, and talk to the same group of hams no matter where you are. When you're NOT in range (and D-STAR isn't everywhere yet by a long shot), you can use a laptop with an air card and a DVDongle (www.dvdongle.com) and talk anywhere on the D-STAR network worldwide. Pretty soon, there will be a new version of the dongle that will let you create a mini-pool of D-STAR RF coverage around your PC in your truck, so you can use a D-STAR HT inside the truck stop and connect anywhere on the network. 73, Gary KN4AQ ARVN: Amateur Radio//Video News Gary Pearce KN4AQ 508 Spencer Crest Ct. Cary, NC 27513 mailto:kn...@arvidionews.comkn...@arvideonews.com 919-380-9944 www.ARVideoNews.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
FYI D-STAR is an acronym and therefore is best expressed as such. Dennis sent from my iPhone On Jan 17, 2010, at 15:36, ad5rb ad...@arrl.net wrote: Hi Earl -- The way I learned about DStar was just reading around on the related web sites. If you Google DStar, or D-
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy
Pretty soon, there will be a new version of the dongle that will let you create a mini-pool of D-STAR RF coverage around your PC This got my attention. Can you please elaborate on this? I didn't see this on the DV Dongle web site. Thanks! __ Michael Murphy - KD8OK kd...@yahoo.com __ From: Gary Pearce KN4AQ kn...@arrl.net To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 17, 2010 6:18:28 PM Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: New guy At 05:36 PM 1/17/2010, ad5rb wrote: If you want to hear the developers in person, there are a series of videos available from Gary Pearce, KN4AQ, at www.ARVideoNews. com Thanks for the plug, Richard. I'll add that the program Digital Voice for Amateur Radio is the one you want for a basic What is it? If you're in a radio club, it'll make a good meeting program or two. And I've got a bunch of articles and radio reviews you can download on the otherstuff page on the web site. I'll add that for over the road, when you're in range of a D-STAR repeater, you can connect it to reflectors with multiple repeaters, and talk to the same group of hams no matter where you are. When you're NOT in range (and D-STAR isn't everywhere yet by a long shot), you can use a laptop with an air card and a DVDongle (www.dvdongle. com) and talk anywhere on the D-STAR network worldwide. Pretty soon, there will be a new version of the dongle that will let you create a mini-pool of D-STAR RF coverage around your PC in your truck, so you can use a D-STAR HT inside the truck stop and connect anywhere on the network. 73, Gary KN4AQ ARVN: Amateur Radio//Video News Gary Pearce KN4AQ 508 Spencer Crest Ct. Cary, NC 27513 kn...@arvideonews. com 919-380-9944 www.ARVideoNews. com
