[e-gold-list] Re: Interest
George, I can't help but wonder in which protected shell you grew up and who instilled this sense of entitlement into you? It appears to me that people who look at any system put forward at a way to benefit at the expense of others are the main thing that is wrong with humanity. Sure, after 40 years of someone with your mindset living in a house, it is worthless. Of course, it would help if you looked after your place a bit. And yes, when you don't pay your rent you will loose your house - BUT - still have your shares in the Union. Either way, you seem not to understand the concept of mutual beneficial cooperation as opposed to ripping off and being ripped off. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Debt and interest (was Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate)
Hello Danny, Okay so we are down to borrowing out of need rather than want. The theory goes that rather than borrowing or selling his watch, the farmer goes to the bank and offers a share in his business. The bank here doesn't lend but functions management for venture capital deposits. If the bank consideres the farmer's proposed use of the camel worthwhile, it will invest into the venture, buy the camel and give it to the farmer. Now, if this new camel dies as well, the farmer owes nothing. The venture fund shared the risk. On the other hand, if the camel lives another 10 years and the venture is profitable then the fund participates in the profits (All the way to the IPO at the camel exchange). (on the side, regarding culture and art, especially poetry and music flourished in the Caliphate and beyond in the Muslim world; instead of famous paintings (which was ousted due to the fact that it was forbidden to make images of living things) artists developped amazing caligraphic art pieces, the work of Persian poets and philosophers is famous - in the Middle East - and most territories actually enjoyed centuries of peace - the ones that didn't have Christian neighbours that is) Leaving the Caliphate behind us, the practice I described above used to be the norm. Poor guys went to rich guys with an idea, concept, proposal. Rich guys made it possible for the poor guy to give it a shot. Ideally everyone got richer. Worst case the venture failed and the rich guy lost some and poor guy stayed poor. The concept behind abolishing interest is to actually share risk equally. We are investing in a number of ventures from time to time - as is common practice among venture capitalists the world over. But these venture capitalists share the risk of the venture failing. Ursuping Loan Sharks (banks) don't. Abolishing interest will eliminate debt without turning off capital flow because, as you agreed earlier, people with capital want to profit. I just can't see the sense in little guys having to carry all the risk, put in all the effort, usually had the idea to begin with, and if the venture fails they end up with debt on top. Let's face it, by real standards even those in the list who are fairly well off, are essentially little guys. Yet we defend a system that is exploiting us. How sick is that? The reason we are doing this is because we use the same system to exploit those who are worse off than us - or dream about one day doing it. All the while (most of us) are supporting the system with every purchase we make. And in the end we are doing this because we are conditioned to believe that our system is the best possible system and the only way to improve on it is to give the individual more choice and more freedom. The funny thing is, I am not trying to ask you to invest into a venture instead of giving me a loan. Yet, you are defending a system that is rigged against you. Of course, may experts and specialists will find gazillions of reasons why our system should not be changed - after all they are on the payroll and are profiting from the system. I believe the Machiavellian trick is to give each individual a sense of entitlement and instill greed for the sake of consumption. Once this artificial need is established, take away whatever is needed and blame others. What you get is a good mix of social theorists, liberals, environmentalists, self-proclaimed do gooders, etc. What you don't get is people willing to make a change. Nobody wants to make the first step, because all camps will tell him that he is bound to fail. Cheers, Robert. PS - Malaysia is actually on the forefront of Islamic banking and thigs are happening, but it takes time to change a mind set; that is why I wrote earlier that all it takes is a generation born free of interest and inflation. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
And one that is entirely taken out of the air, I might add :o) The argument (without stating it) is based on the idea that people would sit on the gold and not use it, which is a weird idea if you ask me, because people would still need eat and pay rent and gas and things. Now, if we there was no way to earn interest on gold then it is unlikely that people would deposit it anywhere - especially if a storage fee was applied. And that brings us back to the interest subject. Gold can't really be inflated by more than what is taken out of the ground every year. Hence the charging of interest would actually compliment the hoarding process where in the end the bank goes bust because it owns all the gold on the planet and can't lend it to anyone bacause debtors would need more gold to pay the interest. So, for a gold currency to really and truly work, one has to hammer the laws of physics into the masses and make them see that gold can't be made from thin air and hence, interest has to be outlawed ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
I actually enjoy the objections of both Patrick and Frank because they are contructive and make sense. Here we go: Patrick, if you lend someone a piece of gold and get the piece bank plus a smaller one, you won't be hauled to prison - BUT - might be forced to donate the smaller piece to a charity fund. What two adults do among themselves is up to them, unless one of them gets something for nothing. The charging of interest is forbidden in so far that someone gets something for nothing. Now, if the guy comes to you to get one piece of gold in order to buy something and sell it a profit and you participate in the profit, that is perfectly fine. You shared the risk, hence you are entitled to share in the profit. How much of the profit you get is a matter of negotiation between the two of you. If you however charged him interest, did not share the risk and got something for nothing, then you loose the something extra you got. Frank, by not allowing people to get themselves into debt the system actually forces freedom on them. Think about it for a minute. Our perceived freedom is unreal when we are forced to pay the governments' interest through indirect taxes and inflation. Our right to choose interest bondage is not impaired by the abolishment of interest. Instead the right to accept people into bondage through lending them money at an interest is curtailed. Your ex-wifes are welcome to try to sell themselves into bondage, that's their free choice. The one who accepts them, though, will be punished. If you are offering money at interest to the public, then in most countries you need a license - which you are very unlikely to be able to get as a private individual with very limited means. BUT lending third parties your money against interest without a license is illegal in this day and age in most countries. The law is seldom enfoced, but it's still there. And if you lend too much to too many people the gov will try to get you on money laundring and racketeering charges. Again, this is what is happening today. By abolishing interest however, we do not abolish the profit motive nor do we abolish lawful gaining from investments. You started out by mentioning the value of the time factor. There is no reason why you should not charge something for your time and service, an administration fee or service charge if you will. But that one must be independent from the amount of the 'investment' and should be calulated based on the time and effort you put in. As you see, you would get to levy those charges because you did something for it. If you are willing to invest into the promise of an ex-wife to pay you back for buying her a new wardrobe, then that could entitle you to charge a risk fee. But you can't charge fees on fees and by charging a risk fee you would invite your ex to simply spend the gold and never pay you back. The crux of the matter is indeed that interest accrues interest and that someone gets something without doing anything for it. It might come as a surprise to many Americans on the list, but most non-US holders of credit cards actually balance their accounts at the end of each month, many actually have positive balances on their cards. >From this I deduct that having debts is not considered natural per se. Indeed, when asking some people why they didn't use their cards when they were short of cash at the end of the month, I got people saying that they would never use the credit facilities of the card because of the fees and interest. IMHO this is the way any adult human should think about it, but many succumb to the lure of instant ownership and worry about paying later. Then they often end up loosing owenership and being saddled with debt. Well, and it is you and me who are paying their debt and interest if they don't. It is you as a share holder and me as a tax payer, who suffers from people not paying back their loans and interest. You get less dividedn because the bank you hold shares in made less profit. And I pay more tax because the bank offset the loss against taxes. And everyone else pays higher interest to help the bank to cover the risk of the non performing loans. Hence the freedom of your ex's to sell herself into interest bondage costs ME, YOU and EVERYONE ELSE. And we get nothing in return. If your ex had no way to borrow, we would all be better off. If it was illegal to profit from lending her money, then nobody would give her any. And that is what I am arguning for. I am not saying that it should be impossible for people to obtain funding for worthwhile causes. I am saying that the one who gives them funding should participate in the profits and share the risk. You want to buy a car but don't have the money? No problem, I buy it and rent it to you. Lease-back, if you will. I have next to no risk, because the car is mine. You get to use the car as if it was your own and will look after it because you expect to buy it off me as soon as you have the cash. In the meantime you
[e-gold-list] Re: Debt and interest (was Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate)
Hello Jens, I would advocate the oblishing of interest as a law, but fear that gov would never do anything like that because they line their pockets from the interest and inflation spiral. Hence, offering an alternative to the market is the way to go. As banks loose business to the alternative provider they will start to adopt and slowly interest becomes the exemption rather than the norm. In Malaysia more and more commercial banks are establishing 'Islamic Financial Instuments' since the government passed the Islamic Banking act in the early 80s and created the legal frame work for Islamic Banking as an alternative. The new, Islamic banks went from strength to strength and once people realized that you don't have to be a devout Muslim, or indeed a Muslim at all to use the alternative many switched banks, prompting the traditional institutes to compete. Currently both systems coexist in Malaysia. Of course, the banking system itself is not as sophisticated as the American or European ones and being in debt is not considered a good thing among the rural folk, which are about half of the population. It is therefore likely that introducing 'fair' banking alternatives to the market in the US or Europe would take much longer to catch on and traditional banks would fight with hands and teeth to make it impossible. In fact, an attempt to introduce fair banking on a large scale in the US is likely to result in class actions from banks for unfair competition or somesuch. By calling it 'Islamic Banking' it can be masked as a religious practice and hence the establishment can't do much against it. However, non-Muslims would then shun the new ventures because of the name. This brings us back to gov policies... It will take time, for sure. But it is already happening. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Interest
George, Yes, the shares come from parts of the rent you paid once you buy the house and pay cash. > > The concept behind abolishing interest is to actually share risk equally. > > Definitely not something you want to tell Jim! Not even I, a "communist", > agree with such equality. > This is actually quite capitalistic and if done right also pretty profitable. After all, the first few houses would be paid for by a group of members who have cash readily available. Yet, it allows for everyone to profit at minimum effort, low overheads and resonably low risk. > > By the way, how do things work in Malaysia? Or they still have interest?! Is > there any Islamic country that works without interest? > Malaysia has a hybrid system in which three types of financial institutions coexist. Commercial, Islamic and Rural banking. Early next year there will be the first VISA card from an Islamic bank, which will not charge compounding interest and which will charge no fees if the balance is paid up befre the last friday of the month. If the balance is not paid by then, then the amount will be converted into a personal negative investment with a once only service fee and monthly installments for 12 months. So yep, it is possible to run credit cards without interest ;o) > > P.S. What happend with your name?! > The S referred to an internal joke at CyFro, my actual initial is a B. However, I did adopt a pen name in the Middle East that starts with an S. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
And that is then when you have no risk, the guy who borrowed carries the complete risk of failure and still would have to pay you anyway. And that is unfair. While you should get something for investing in him, the amount he owes you should be fixed there and then. Indeed, if you invest a gold piece into his life against a dime a month, you would be owed a dime a month for as long as the venture exists - but would never get the coin back - AND can't take anything else off him. In order to avoid all those hassles, you might just want to invest into the local property union or finance bank, participate in the profits and your friend gets his investment from them. Given that he already has a house, he might actually sell the house for a gold coin and contract to buy it back for a coin and pay a dime rent for the month. That is actually in simplified terms how it is really being done. This is why you will find in most Islamic countries that title deeds in a property purchase are changed very late. After up to three months the application for a change is submitted - or a temporary change in ownership is entered. A mortgage if you will. Now, the reason for the exercise is actually two-fold. It should be hard for people to obtain funding in which they themselves carry the risk and it should be even harder to disown anyone. The ancient precedessor of the cooling off period of an agreement, so to say. The system is meant to discourage accepting third party funds for whimsical purposes, while still facilitating trade and profiting from commercial activities. It is meant to make the idea of being debt unthinkable. If that would mean that there are less McDonald's outlets and less people buying tanks, SUVs, airplane tickets, etc. then so be it. After all, this would only be for a brief while. Once the initial shock has passed people will realize that due to not paying off this and that they suddenly have more cash left every month. Consider this: The US populace pays $62 billion of interest on credit card debts per year! This is interest only, does not include compounding interest, nor indeed does it include installments. About half of the credit card debts are for consumables (restaurants, holidays, groceries, etc.) So, no lasting value has been created or changed ownership. What is worse, is that through compounding interest and high fees the original price of the combined items three years ago would have been less than half of what is being paid in interest now. Imagine, if people were not able to use credit for consumables. Imagine that cards would have to be balanced by the end of each month. Even better, imagine all cards became debits cards and people would spend money they have. That's an additional $62,000,000,000 in availavle cash to the US economy every year. So, while at one time there would have been less money spent (less card purchases), there would be overall much more liquidity. The problem is, everybody gets easy credit because banks want to profit at any expense. People who could never qualify for a mortgage or a loan to start a business are carrying 5 credit cards... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
Danny wrote: And if your venture capital system is available as well, then I have all possible choices, just in case I doesn't want to carry all the risk. Exactly, if both options exist, it is likely that the VC option would over time largely replace the commercial banking option in all fields practicable, ie. there are likely to still be short-term loans of over a month and under two years. Trouble is, currently only one option exists in most countries and although I don't owe anyone anything (other than gratitude, respect, support, etc.) I still feel that I have to pay for the irresponsible spending habits of others with high fees, etc. Now, can I lend anyone money at 3% per month?:o) Patrick, there is no caning for ursupery unless you cause bodily harm to your debtors. Instead there is confiscation of what are deemed unjust profits. So, essentially they won't even touch your property and you get to keep your wealth. Only the interest revenues are forfeited. The main item that Danny and you seem to ignore that in constructs involving rent, etc. the ownership doesn't change until the item is fully paid for and, possibly the most important item: There is nothing resembling compounding interest. The compounding interest is truly something for nothing. Even our loan sharking side line, oops, i meant to say Microloan programme, doesn't go that far to charge compounding interest. Instead we buy diary cows, sell them at a profit two years later and give them to their future owner for safe keeping in the meantime ;o) Of course, in the meantime the safe keeper and future owner gets to milk the beast but we still carry the risk that the four-legged wealth producing device dies before ownership changes. That's why we charge a service up front and the future owner is obliged to buy the carcass from us. The two fees make up half the price of the cow, hence we share half the risk. And double our money every 2 1/2 years if the cow survives and the safe keeper pays up. We invest in low cost housing as well ;o) What shall I say? It works like a charm, everybody loves it, and all parties profit. By the way, most of our clients would never qualify for a loan. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking, was: Re: Debt and interest ...
I know. I'm too bloody nice and caring ;o) Must be my heritage. The reason I'd like to outlaw interest is simply to give everyone the chance to start with a clean slate again, rather than having kids pay for their parents' follies in decades to come. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
I actually agree with all three. First you will get a few deposits, then you will get your account restricted - notably whenever you are trying to make the first withdrawal. After disclosing everything there is to know about your life so far, they will claim not to have received anything and will demand the you send it again. Three weeks later (all the while people keep depositing into your account and posting here that you must be a crook because you didn't give them their e-gold), PayPal will unfreeze your account long enough to reverse some charges from several weeks earlier. You will file a complaint, which they will ignore while freezing your account again, but szll accepting funds being deposited. You think about joining some militants in your rage as you find out that PayPal has now reversed a few more charges - WITHOUT - actually returning the funds to the sender. Just as you think it couldn't get any worse, your bank or credit card company informs you that PayPal emptied your account to cover reversal fees for the money they stole. After you have clients mail PayPal and demand an explanation why they reversed a charge for no reason and where the heck the money went, you may or may not find 'some' of it credited to your account, which of course remains frozen. After that, as Gordon suggested, it will take about 180 days for them to ask you where to send a cheque to. Trouble is, in those 180 days they changed their TOS and for you to receive that cheque, you need to first agree to the new TOS which include that basically you won't get a cent. So, the best of luck if you are seriously planning to go through with this. And, you are welcome to quote me! Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
Gordon, We were actually exchanging e-gold at the time, not using PayPal as a credit card processor for hosting or domain registrations. Of course that made things much worse because it meant each charge back was serious monies lost rather than only revenue lost, hence my rage. Jim, I did spend quite a while in Iran during my youth and learned to handle a Kalashnikov, G3 and Uzi (although the prior more manhandled me than the other way around, as I recall). You see, after the revolution there were not many pig eaters left and a few years later wild boars were starting to destroy fields and orchards up Northeast at the Caspian sea. The gov was reluctant to arm their own Christian minorities and hence invited Christian expatriates for weekend hunts (two guys with automatic rifles and machine guns on the back of a pick-up truck, unlimited ammo, free choice of weapon - among the military gear that was available). Ten minutes trining to show the safety and how to reload, and off we went hunting boars. I remember the first time, when after a whole night of hunting the score came in at one boar, hundreds of rounds of ammo used and a French guy who had shot a German in the foot ;o) We got better after a while (no, the French didn't shoot the German in the head, we got more boars). On the next trip they actually gave us shot guns, which took all the fun out of it. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GoldNow customers in Cyprus
Graham, You sure come around on your travels aren't you? Don't say you took the overland route from Europe back to Asia on your way to New Zealand? Been in Malta yet? If not, then you should go - and buy some property there while you are at it ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
You will need to insist on an ISP mail address and even then you have no protection against thievery from PayPal itself. Millions of people never have a problem with PayPal, tens of thousand get ripped off by PayPal themselves. There seems to be no pattern though about who they steal from and whom they don't. So, good luck, it's a gamble. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking
Hello Jim, > > That's precisely why I'm against outlawing things. > I guess that means you'd like to outlaw outlawing :o) But as you say yourself, ursury is morally highly questionable. And as the increasing absence of moral values, indeed the decay of morality in society continues to be replaced by the worship of mammon the almighty buck, I fear that even a free market won't stand a chance as long as intoctrinated citizens leave school with maxxed out credit cards on a search for a loan to go to college and university. The brief while of geek worship in the US was indeed only veiled envy of the gazillions they made and CEOs are the demi-gods of the new religion witch bankers and brokers serving as clergy. You don't expect that society will be repelled by its own rott, do you? It is more likely that things get real bad before enough voices are heard that are trying to convince people that loneliness and desperation are the results of greed and shortsightedness. Trouble is, once these voices gain enough momentum, the results are likely to be a violent move towards the right. Then you are not far from burning witches and hunting bankers with pitch forks. Maybe we should outlaw lawyers... > > Usury is wrong, but so is a Spanish Inquisition to > prevent it. > As I said, my expectation is that if ursury is not brought under control, that then the results over time will make the Spanish Inquisition look like a kindergarden field trip. People are prone to fall from one extreme into the other. So we might be looking either a theocratic Holy States of America or a American Communist Federation in a few decades. Fascism itself doesn't usually last very long, especially when the first wars are being lost - or drag on forever without any apparent benefit or visible goal. To avoid all that, maybe even to save the US, a bit of regulatory insight to cap interests might be at least retarding the process, if not indeed arrest it (puns intended). On the other side of the medal so to speak, it should become tougher to file for chapter 7 and chapter 11. Meaning, while companies and share holders should still be protected, etc. CEOs should become personally responsible for mismanagement and be charged with it deception and breach of trust, loosing at the very least all benefits, boni and large parts of their wages. In addition, CEO slaries should be capped at a reasonable level. Bonus should be paid in restricted shares of stock. Don't you think if the maximum a bank could charge was 1% non-compounding per month or 12% per annum - OR - transaction fees and service charges, but NOT both, and if executives could not earn more that $120,000 before tax and incentives, that maybe, the world would be a better place? I mean, I live in Asia most of the time and can't really spend $2,000 a month, no matter how hard I try. And spending $10,000 in the US really takes some effort as well - especially if you get piles of restricted shares on top, based on the value you generated for share holders... Cheers, Robert budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
Danny, Unfortunately vendor finance and lease back are common practice in many stores here for ages, already. While they don't call it rent per say, it boils down to monthly installments and the word interest appears nowhere. Most notably though, if an item costs say $500 cash, then the vendor finance is priced around $22 per month for two year with $1 down. That in turn means that there is barely any 'interest', indeed more of a service fee to allow for the cost of accounting over a 24 month period. I am always astonished how many Europeans and most Americans don't have a concept of Malaysia, and expect some third world country of rural shags. Yet, we got the longest bridge in Asia, the highest office buildings on the planet, two of the 25 busiest ports in the world, are producing about 50% of all CPUs (notably intel's Itanium architecture was partly developped and the chip is exclusively being manufactured here), are exporting locally designed cars and are the 18th largest trading nation, after Canada and Ireland and before Belgium, Finnland, etc. So, yep, while she is wanting in some areas of the service sector, Malaysia is definitely not Third World and easily ten years ahead of Thailand in her development. For a closer example to Europe, I would place Malaysia comparatively ahead of Turkey, maybe somewhere between Greece and Portugal. Patrick, Thanks for the kudos regarding the Indian diary cow deal. It's not that difficult actually, once you have been on the ground, had a few cows of your own, just for kicks and slaughtered a few hundred chicken during an emergency. After that you have a better idea how your prospective partners feel and think and you can tailor offers they can understand and accept. It appears that farmers the world over are a suspicious lot who don't trust outsiders until you tell them that the pig with blood on it's head is about to go blind and the hen with missing feathers on it's butt that appears to have stopped laying is actully being attacked by other hens and likely to be his best producer. Yep, appears chicks are jealous of other chicks that lay more eggs and not only crash the eggs but also bull out each other feathers... In other words, there is nothing special with making unusual deals. All it takes that you study the field on the ground, not in books and videos, and listen to what seemingly uneducated people have to say, rather than trying to educate them about things they have no use for ;o) The weird thing might well be that I would have been one of those overpaid bankers/CEOs I am now arguing against. About the use of 'thugs' and similar offensive language on the list, I'd say that the lack of actual human interaction over the internet often makes us more emotional in our replies than we actually are in real life. Often four letter words and personal attacks are submitted without a second thought because of the impersonal surroundings. I have seen respectible scholars blush when they were confronted with their own posts to some newgroups at a later point in time. In the end, emotions are what makes us human. And forgiveness might be the easiest way to deal with someone else's. Of course, I'm prone to respond in kind as well, when attacked. Maybe we just don't get laid often enough :) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking
Point taken. Yet I believe I have a certain ability to judge the subject. Been there, done that, earned it all and quit in disgust when I realized what and who I was becoming. Then I saw the world turning into what I had quit for. Alas, let's put the baby to rest so to say ;o) Life goes on, humanity is extremely resilient and they managed to survive 1,000s of years of slavery and serfdom. Let's give the capitarocracy it's shot at being on top of the heap. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
Danny, You know I am someone who says that when all is said and done, I still pay my bills with fiat and it's pretty difficult, even in Malaysia to buy a piece of land paying in gold coins and bars (no, joke, I tried - and succeeded, after going to a bank and getting the gold valued in the local fiat currency). So, I'm with you to some extend. > > A money can have value, just based on its widespread acceptance and a sound > 'open books' management. > What is 'sound open books', please? Widespread acceptance is a tricky subject because people do 'NOT' really have a choice. More on the instances where people DO have a choice, below. But I am honestly interested to know what you mean by 'open book management'? Who decides which is the right amount of additional currency to spend into circulation and why does in an overheated economy get cooled off by raising interest rates, rater than taking money out of the circulation? The macro economic effect would in theory be same, reduced growth with possibly a brief flirt with deflation. Wouldn't that be sound fiscal policy as opposed to playing with interest rates and seeing what happens and how the market reacts? > If the free market accepts the US dollars and prices its commodities in this > currency, then by this very acceptance the currency becomes backed by these > commodities and by all of them, not only by the gold. And that is one of the items you are on shifting ground. The FREE market does NOT accept US dollars for its commodities. Instead it is being forced to accept US dollars so that it can pay the interest on loans their governments took two generations ago - in goods, priced by American suppliers, in US dollars. And if a free market pushes it's government to shift from dollars to another currency, say EUROs, then weird things happen. Venezuela might be the most striking example for that one. Hasn't anyone wondered why Bush endorsed a military coup of a known slaughterer general over a democratically elected governemnt there? Luckily the people didn't go for it and brought their government back. Then, out of the blue, those same people who first elected the governemnet, then staged an uprising to bring it back to power started to strike. Weird? Well, let's consider this: As soon as elected, the new government announced that Venezuelian oil would be sold in EUROs. The generalissimo who staged the coup, reverted to US dollars, the returning government reverted back to EUROs and as soon as they changed their policies and announced that US dollars were just fine, the strikes stopped. Free market? Think again. > It means that you can go to the market and exchange your dollars for these > commodities. > The users back the currency by offering goods and services in exchange for > it. It is based on trust. > I accept dollars because I know I can go to the market and exchange them for > something else, even for gold if I want. If you go to many African countries today, you will notice that money changers, antic dealers and allegedly even prostitutes ask if you have EUROs when you offer dollars. > > Bad management of the money can break this trust of course, and that's the > main disadvantage of the system. Whic is what has happened in the case of the US dollar. And I believe that EUROs are only accepted to some extend for lack of an alternative. > But when there is a free market nobody is forced to keep all his wealth in > the same currency, and plenty of stores of value are available as well. > Again, that is not entirely true. Outside Europe and America, choices and alternatives are limited. Thais treat gold like cash and and dollars like something that needs to be exchanged before the rate changes. In the Middle East, depending on the degree of freedom, the dollar is accepted (though the EURO is more and more preferred), in oppressed nations (Iran, Syria, Israel) but less welcome in countries with a stable currency where people have an actual choice (UAE, Bahrain, etc.) I am pretty sure that this is only the beginning. People are just starting to realize that have been taken for a ride because the supply of US dollars in the Third World is somewhat limited. Most notably, when Americans started to flood Iraq with dollars, Iraqis happily reverted back to essentially valueless Saddam Dinars. If dollars are freely available in a country, people tend to shun it - especially if the own currency is not being devalued every couple of years. Interestingly, all the countries in which dollars are not overly welcome, have no tax on gold and count gold imports as a major trade. That does suggest that the FREE market has chosen gold, does it not? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
> Money is not added to the circulation by printing it and throwing it out of > a helicopter over the people's houses. Instead it is being printed and either used by the gov to pay bills (most countries) or loaned to the gov to pay bills with (USA). However, if you look at the requestion costs of most governments ($12 for a pen after allowing for the wages and operational costs of all the officials involved to decide which pen to buy - in bulk), you helicopter example comes pretty close. Trouble is, the helicopter only passes above civil servants and government contractors. > > Raising interest rates takes money out of the system because people are more > likely to pay off their debts if the rates are high. > Similarly low interest rates encourage more borrowing, which means money is > added to the system. > The effect would be the same if the government was not able to borrow or having printed more bank notes. If the economy grows by 7% and the amount of available money does not increase, prices begin to stagnate, less sales are made and the growth recedes. The market then raises the interest rates trying to get funds for the commmercial sector, which further reduces readily available cash as the costs of interest reduce the volume of cash flow. Hence the economy cools down pretty fast. > > How you will take money out directly? > Ideally a government would have reserves and no need to borrow or print. In an imperfect world the government rapidly cuts spending while the economy still appears to grow. All of a sudden the money supply is insufficient and a downwards spiral begins with less tax revenue, further spending cuts, etc. until growth is at or even below zero. > > I have not said we have a free market. > What you describe is the politician's tampering with this market. > What makes you think that that would ever change? It appears as if the free market has failed trying to control governments and hence markets have been regulated into a quasi socio-fascistic free for all as long as the printers run ruin. How do you propose the market to change this? The only way I can see that 'may' be workable, is for the market to gradually start shifting into value-based exchange, barter if you will. Many large companies are already doing this to some degree because they find it harder and harder to take delivery of commodities for dollars from countries that are not indepted to the US. One has to consider that the current experience of low commodity prices and a shaky currency value denominator is not entirely new for many Third World countries. The Pound devaluation comes to mind, when many of the what were to become Commonwealth countries found their national currency reserves greatly devalued while other currency loans suddenly put an immese burden on them. This in fact was what lead to the rise of the US dollar in world trade. The US was making a killing because they were able to pay for goods in dollars and nobody wanted the British Pound Sterling anymore. What appears to be happening now between the Dollar and the Euro, is the same scenario. Of course, the US has learnt from the British mistake at the time and won't let other countries off that easily. After all, if countries continue to increasingly refuse Dollar payments instead of Euros, then the US would rapidly become an also run in global affairs. One should never forget that the US economy is built on credit and that the US has no less than 300 military bases abroad, all paid for in US dollars. Imagine everyone would ask for Euros. Alternatively, imagine all the foreign investments in the US would be pulled out. In fact, all you have to imagine is what would happen if the rest of the World would stop investing in the US. After all America needs about 1,000 billion dollars just to pay the interest on their loans and bonds a year. That is a kewl trillion dollars that has to be borrowed additionally every year. And as the first leaders in the Third World realize this and as their populace often has a liking for gold anyway, it is in fact those parts of the market that are truly free (of debt) that seem to choose gold over paper. After all, countries that got burned by the Pound Sterling (other got burned by the French Franc) some of which also took a Japanese Yen hit, and are now being burnt by the US dollar, have a limited incentive to rely on the Euro, if gold is a viable alternative. And that is exactly the whole idea behind the GoldDinar concept for international trade. In essence, gold as money is reverting to the barter system. Paper is a promise. Worse, most of the paper money doesn't even exist in paper form but only as digits on a screen. That makes fiat money a promise of a promise of an assumption. Namely the promise that you can get paper for the digits on the screen, which itself is a promise that you can exchange it for goods on services, based on the assumption that others will exchange goods or provide services to you for the p
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
George, I hope Patrick doesn't mind if I answer this one. Redeemability implies that the issuer of paper has the corresponding amount of gold in stock. This in turn means that the paper is synonymous with gold and that there can be only as much paper as there is gold. Exchange is something completely different. If all current USD fiat was to be exchanged for all the gold ever mined, then the shortfall in gold would mean that the price per ounze is above $14,000 each. This means that there are 14,000 dollars in circulation for every ounze of gold there is above ground, world-wide. Hence only redeemablity at a predetermined, set price (say $400 paper for 1 troy ounze of gold) implies that the paper has an inherent value. Everything else is build on trust. The same trust that keeps people running to the bank to withdraw their funds just to see if they are there. It is widely known that if people did that (as they tried during the great recession), everything would fall apart. Not only does the bank not have the money because it is loaned to others, but in fact there is much more fiat money loaned to others than actual paper exists and there is much less paper than the balance sheets show. So not only is paper not redeemable for gold, in fact account balances are not even redeemable for paper when it comes to the crunch ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
George, Actually the title refers to the argument by paper advocates that there might not be enough gold on the planet to facilitate all the daily transactions, international trade, etc, and that hence a liquidity crisis would follow if gold was used ad only denominator of exchange. Most here on the list argue that there is more than enough for that purpose. However, the US alone has flooded the planet with paper, and if anyone was to exchange the paper (and the bank balances) from US currency to gold, then the exchange rate would be a high multiple of today's market price. At the same time, it would leave the rest of the planet without gold. The redeemability (or lack thereof) discussion came later ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Prevent FACE reseller right, HOW?
Now, it could be that the owner of the site actually bought the reseller rights from you under his own name? If not, then I guess you need to contact their hosting provider to get them shut down. Of course, you are cheaper anyway, so why would anyone buy from them? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Prevent FACE reseller right, HOW?
Hello Ian, I am still waiting for a formal complaint from v2Gold. I tried to nicely hint what he was supposed to do, because the site is hosted with us. You know we don't get involved unless there is a reason. My post suggests that if v2Gold complained TO US, then I would have the reason to suspend the site. There are legalities on our end, too. I can't suspend the site because somebody claiming to be v2Gold says so, unless they say it to us using our complaint form. Does that make sense? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Prevent FACE reseller right, HOW?
Actually the site has been suspended about 30 minutes ago, after we had a look to see if they had the v2Gold scripts stored on the machine (which they didn't) and found the trojans. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Prevent FACE reseller right, HOW?
Jim, > Yes, well, Robert, it seems that cyberica is their domain > registry provider. As mentioned, we even host them. I tried to be a nice about it and tell v2Gold between the lines to contact us directly to get the site shut down. I thought that as programmers they would know by then that we are the host and that the hint would be enough to get them to act - which they still haven't, by the way. Funnily enough it was Gordon, our collegue from Katz Global who got involved and shortly thereafter we suspended the site. Not because of the alleged stolen scripts, but because we found malware on the machine. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: retailing the Moon
At least he has a claim in accordance with the Terra (Luna?) Nullis rules used to establish ownership of otherwise unclaimed and uninhabited land. If the claim would stand in an International tribunal context is questionable. However, it maybe likely that there would be some kind of compensation, should his claims (and those of the people buying from him) be nullified at some point in time. In the end, I'd say that the value of the claims depend on what humanity does with the moon in future. If they colonize or mine or otherwise exploit it - which would require some sort of ownership arrangements, then his claims are likely to be worth something, if one considers the precedents in kolonial history. Of course, there is the issue that on Earth teritories have been claimed on behalf of governments and individuals had been chartered to do so at the time. However, the mere filing of the claim in an American land registry by an individual could even be taken as a base to claim American jurisdiction over the moon - a scary thought. On the other hand, he did declare independence (uncontested) and proclaimed his own nation state and government. Legally, this is likely to be an interesting case to decide on, if it ever comes to that. Still, I believe that there are just enough "registered property owners" for the moon, to make enough of an impact to warrant some sort compensation, if not indeed validation, at some point in the future. So, as a long term investment gamble, buying a few acres of the moon certainly beats buying lottery tickets. The odds of winning are better and the bragging rights are priceless :o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Income tax
Hello George, I have often wondered if it was possible to do away with inflation, all taxes, etc. and simply replace them with a flexible GST (goods and services tax). The simplified version would look like this: Every good and service is subject to a surcharge of say 5%, without exemption. Different to widely used VAT systems, there would be no way to claim the GST back, instead, there would be double and tripple taxation in sor far, that the raw material is taxed, the wages are taxed, the packaging is taxed, the cost of transport to the wholesale, the sale to the retailer, etc. It would likely build up to about 30 or 40% anyway, but it would happen to everyone, independent of income, property, background etc. Moreover, it would happen to all imported goods as well. From the time they arrive at US shores to the time you put it into your All-American shelf, fridge, stomach, etc. it would have accumulated some 15-20% tax on the way. Imagine the savings on paper work, enforcement, etc. As Jim says, the real tax in the US is about 50% anyway, in most EU countries it's likely even higher. Now, the next stage, after introducing the system would be to set the annual rate in accordance with the marco economic climate. If the economy is overheating, increase the tax to 7 or 8%, shortly inflation will increase as business passes the higher tax on to the consumer, consumers buy less and start saving for the next low-tax year. Busines will drop the prices to increase sales, growth is reduced and despite the higher tax, the threat of deflation appears. Once that happens, the goverment reduces the tax to 4% to kickstart things and everybody runs to buy the stuff the've been saving for. Workable? Too simple? Not enough control over consumers? I don't know, you tell me :o) Cheers, Robert PS - we are being dDOSsed on and off, on server05 (which happens to include cyfrocash.net accounting and cyberica.net hosting) in retaliation for us suspending blue-market.com last night; please be patient while we are working on ways to shoot back. servers01-04, 06 (cyberfrontier.biz, etc.) and up are not effected and function normal. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Income tax
Hello Helen, > There are very good reasons for avoiding the cascading effects of such > taxes. Like the horrible distortion and the massive vertical integration > that would follow. Sorry, but could you elaborate? I'm pretty bad with the buzzwords du jour and under distortion I would understand that everybody pays based on their consumption rather than their income or wealth, which I wouldn't find horrible. Well, and for me vertical integration has to do with conglomeratization in which companies produce everything from raw material to finished product. The time where this was beneficial has passed and the most money is being made by smart outsourcing strategies. So, while I can see that someone would look into saving some of the tax by making everything inhouse, the increased cost of the workforce (which is taxed) higher overheads (which are taxed) and lower efficencies due to larger internal bureacratic procedures would be likely to erase the mere thought before it was going into a business plan. Of course, I might have completely misunderstood you, which is why I'm asking. > Income tax, as it operates now, can be greatly simplified by: > 1. territorialisation --tax only income earned from the territory of the > taxing authority > 2. source orientation -- tax income at the first suitable opportunity and > exempt it from any taxation and reporting after this > 3. low flat rates > 4. depersonalisation -- tax income assessable from property and business, > without discimination among recipients. I do agree with all points, but believe that your proposal would lead to higher overall taxes, as more and more high income eraners will simply move overseas and take their wealth (and brains) with them, to take advantage of the territorialization. But again, i might be wrong. > I'm afraid your macro-economics are as bad as your fiscal policy economics. That must be why I'm getting all those job offers from the US. They need someone to blame ;o) > It just does not work to stimulate the economy by fiscal policy, apart from > structural reform of fiscal policy to reduce taxation and eliminate > inefficient taxes and government programs (i.e. pretty much all of them). I did not argue for or against stimulation as such, but considered it a give. Everybody does it - well, every decent size economy - and they appear to believe in it, even if might not work. My question was actually if such a system could replace interest rate manipulation. I sort of implied that this was continuing the genral discussion about inflation, paper, fiat, gold, etc. Hence my proposal was that maybe a flexible rate of a flat GST could do what everyonone else is trying to do with rising and lowering interest rates - possibly with the same result. George, What happens if I plant trees on my land? You know, I buy the land, plant trees to start a saw mill in a decade or two. hence I will derive an income in future, but not till then. If the government confiscates my land because of that, who will invest into Agrobusiness - in other words, what will we eat and where do we get natural raw materials (timber, pulp, etc.) from after all trees are cut? Just wondering. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Economic Incentives
Patrick, Why would people say you are wrong? It is a fact that whatever a human creates serves one of three purposes: Commerce, Military, Pleasure. If there is commercial reason to build a road, people will build it. If people do not, the government will build it for the military/law enforcement. People don't usually do anything that does not either shelter and protect, feed and supply or entertain them - or help with procreation. By the same token, people will do anything to ensure that they have food, shelter and ample time and opportunity to reproduce, and will do anything to protect those 'needs'. The real power of 'money' is simply the fact that it is the only item on the planet that helps converting one into the other. You got the cash, you build a house, get exotic food, inhabitate the dwelling with mates and their offspring and hire some sad sacks that have none of all that and pay them to protect you and ensure that you continue to have all of it. Then boredom sets in and you either start creating art, or become an expert critic on and collector of art (depending if you have any talent whatsoever, or not). And when it comes to talk about money, it's similar to high school talk about sex. The more one talks about it, the less he has, and the more one tries to get some, the less likely he is to succeed ;o) By simply letting people fill their perceived needs and supplying them what they think they want, commerce flourishes. To ensure ample supply and maximize return you need roads, bridges, etc. The reason people might oppose your idea is simply that they are blinded in by the believe that they don't have to pay for roads if the government builds them, while also being afraid that if you build them, that you might make them pay. When they introduced the private toll road system in Malaysia, some social-flavored opposition leader refused to pay and told everyone else they should follow suit. Once people relized how kewl it is to have four lane highways from every corner of the country, they started to pay happily and shunned the normal two-lane pot-hole riddled roads that were free of charge. By now Malaysia has the best highway system in East Asia, outside Japan, the concessionaires that maintain the highways and bridges went IPO and in effect the annual dividends are in a way giving highway users their money back. Another example of free market success. Trouble is only that this wasn't free market at work, it was planned and regulated by a smart government ;o) So maybe, in the end the problem is less the people and businesses, but simply a self-serving government... Cheers, Robert. PS: just for the record, the poorer people who use mainly motor scooters get to use the highways for free and there ain't even any road tax or levies on them and gas prices are subsidized - no biggie, Malaysia has oil. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Offtopic discussions
Wouldn't you then risk Moderator battles? "Oooohh? You moderateed my post? Wait, I'll buy some mod points and moderate it right back and declare all your posts as trolls and flame bait" >From experience with /. there is also the risk of 'revenche fouls'. Our chief tech has been moderating often there and has an amazing karma (people have bid to buy the profile) but he thinks that if mod rights were for sale, it would end up being abused. Just our 2 cents... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Offtopic discussions
Well Gordon, Marriage has traditionally more to do with money than most other subjects we have discussed. Interestingly, the Germans were the first to call the kid by it's name. They define a marriage as a 'union for the purpose of accumulation' and have one of their really long words that nobody can pronounce that describes just that. Once cave man stopped sneaking up on females, knocking them over their head and dragging them into a cave for the purpose of procreation, and instead took to asking her father for permission before knocking her over the head and dragging her into a cave, the whole thing became a business transaction. The ultimate purpose of marriage (aside of implied ownership rights in which the female owns everything the male can produce) is to ensure that property rights and heirloom definitions are established and the loot passed on to the next lot of head knockers. Those were the days. In addition, most traditional communities still look at the bride price, or on the other side of the scale, the dowry, in terms of gold or commodities, life stock, etc. To the best of my knowledge, throughout history no father ever set the price of his daughter (or the presents he gave the groom to get her off his back) in bundles of paper. On a different note, I would like to invite people on this list, to join me with drafting a petition to the US gov and fed, asking them to issue bank notes with a white, blank side on the reverse. This would not only increase the usefulness (one could scribble down memos, stamp advertisements on them, etc.) but indeed the inherent value of the dollar. In fact, well used bank notes could even have entertainment value and/or become collector items. Cheers, Robert, budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: China Gold
Hello Joe, It is unlikely that it would change anything on the currency situation, really. The Chinese (Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, ASEAN, South Africa -take your pick) are interested in a weak currency in dollar terms and will continue to buy all dollars as soon as they enter the country (outright if the currency is pegged, China, Malaysia, etc. or through the market if it isn't, Japan, South Africa, etc.). This keeps their currencies low and the US dollar high. But it also means that it keeps gold under some pressure because they can't use the dollars to buy gold with it. Instead they have to buy something that keeps the dollars in dollars, which is, of course US bonds, bills, even mutual funds and stocks. One of the things the press was never too keen on saying is that the current 'interim bull' on Wall Street is almost entirely foreign funded. The reason for that is that Asia doesn't have a choice (yet). They can only invest dollar income into dollar denominated assets, paper for paper if you will. Of course, China is the most striking example for this, but it holds true in many other countries as well. A strong dollar keeps things cheap in Asia. A falling dollar would be a disaster, because in the end, it would increase domestic prices in China as well. A market were the consumer base is still being built. Yes, many Chinese are likely to buy 'some' gold. But if they want the actual metal and there is a lot of them, then things become tricky, 'cause it ain't there and China can't buy it in large quantities because they would use dollars for that, wich would increase the dollar supply internationally, which would cause the dollar to drop, which... you get the picture, unless of course, they barter it from Malaysia, South Africa or Russia... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: microcommerce
Pitty we don't have enough geniuses (genii?) around, innit? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: scammer
Now that is a problem. I was always wondering how long it would take until crooks started to use the names of repectable people and the nasty under their name just to damage their reputation. The trouble is that the way some things are set up (especially the name space) these actions are just about being invited. The good thing is that most crooks are either too ignorant or too lazy to figure it all out, but IMHO it was only a matter of time. About four weeks ago, someone tried to register a domain with us that was similar to Gordon's, and he posed as KatzGlobal. The good thing was that the crook wanted the privacy registration + mail option, which we set up manually. So we smelled and a rat and asked Gordon. Imagine the guy would have used simple privacy registration, registered the domain without us noticing and then started to send all sorts of mails, posing as KatzGlobal... The repercussions for Katz and for us could have been immense. Imagine you receiving an email from what appears to be Katz recommending a site or a service in decent English. How much weight would you give such an email, especially if you are hosting with Katz? I'm afraid that this might be just the beginning of a whole wave of new scams and it might well be that the only way to counter them is a closer cooperation of e-gold users. Of course, the GCDA and eCMA are steps in that direction and the obvious banding together of some parts of the e-gold community is another. The question is, if it is enough, or if we might have to start to genuinely look out for each other. Crossing blades on the list can be fun of course, but when we face common threats, it might be time to bury a hachet or two and close ranks. After all, the next person in whose name some scammers are tying to steal domain names, e-gold passwords, etc. could well be YOU. And heaven forbid, they might be using our servers to do it, without us realizing. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Nature of Value
When a child is born, it values its mothers breast above anything else (if the child is male, valuing breasts is likely to stick with him till he dies). As the child grows up and learns from its suroundings, it realizes what people are placing value on and how that value is measured. Sooner or later it is being taught the concept of exchanging paper for items and of doing something (service) to avail itself of that paper. I am quite sure that it is pretty hard to argue with the above, at least in a Western World setting. I now propose that it is not the individual that initially places a value on something, but that instead it accepts the value someone else has placed on it without question. The next time that child might be wondering about the value of things, and most importantly, if "it is all worth it", he or she is likely to be in a backbreaking job, bogged down by insurance and mortgage payments and forced to accept the value others place on items. The alternative is to live in a cave (but make that a cave that is public property or you'll be told how much value the cave has in terms of property tax), or to pack your things and retire to Southeast Asia ;o) Seriously, I agree with you, in theory. Unfortunately, in practice things tend to be quite a bit different than that, and the only way to really freely place a value of your own on items and make your own choices is by having enough items others place value on (gold, cash, property, blonde virgins, camels, sheep (NZ), etc.) and being able to exchange whatever you need for those. It is fairly easy to abstract humanity and preach lofty ideals, publish great concepts and thoughtful comments, mainly because it's free of charge to muse. It is far harder to actually have humanity conform with your ideas, and harder still to convince them that they are wrong and should change their attitudes. In the end, the fact that people are herd animals and that every learning process starts with copying renders much of the philosophical writings through the ages pretty obsolete. Sad, but unfortunately true. While that might not apply to some or maybe even most of the people on the list, the majority of the inhabitants are born followers and need others to go along with them and someone to tell them where to go to. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: microcommerce
Because if you don't feed the cow, it will die. And if you don't protect it, someone will it. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: fraud and more fraud
I wonder if this SCIbot mail is partially real? As noted above the spend fee is incorrect, which would allow to calculate the amount of the real spend. That, together with other indicators that might match an actual transactionmight give e-gold an indication which real e-gold accounts were involved in the transaction the original SCIbot mail relates to. Over to e-gold? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: question on coins
Hello Jens, You do of course have a point, but I think the reason for coins is mainly that they are with us as since shortly after the concept of money was invented (metal supplies permitting and shell money and similar exemptions not withstanding). Old habits die hard, I suppose. I do actually believe that coins are more expensive than paper notes (to mint, transport and store) but also more durable. However there is the administrative part that allows you to simply weigh coins to determine the number of coins in a batch, which beats having to sort 5 cent bills and quarter-dollar bank notes :o) I think most national banks are gradually reducing the numbers of coins in circulation as especially smaller denominations are all but obsolete anyway. Most notably, Australia did away with pennies altogether for quite a while now. The smallest Australian coin in circulation is the 5 cents coin and shops either round up or off. At the same time Australian 50 cent and 1 dollar coins are the most used ones for shopping. Malaysia on the other hand has introduced 1 and 2 Ringgit notes a while back and are slowly replacing the 1 Ringgit coin while also cutting back on the amount of 1 and 5 cent coins in circulation. So, I guess there is no real answer to your question. Different countries use different approches and maybe it is a matter of time until especially small change becomes a matter of confirming a deduction from a change-card as you walk past the automatic cashier transmitter at the supermarket. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: fake V-cash login spam
Hello Jim, Divin, our resident tech says that this one is either being sent from a guy who uses own mail account, or alternatively the mail servers allow unverified relays. Seems the provider is http://www.optonline.net/ and they appear to have ignored a nudge we sent them three days ago. At the time there was a pretty basic e-gold scam mail coming from the mail servers there, now it's cashcards... and then people ask us why we disabled the real time link-ins between DGCs and bank accounts at CyFroCA$H ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Difference between bank wire and ACH ?
Okay here goes: ACH is a proprietary, American system that compliments the account system structure of associated banks and identifies recepients based on the sorting code and account number. It uses a central database that sorts incoming and outgoing transactions based on the sorting code and forwards them to the main system of the bank in question, which in turn identifies the account number and enters a credit. "Wires" are the remniscent of times of telegraphic transfers. Again, American banks had to go their own way and essense copied the SWIFT system, but used numbers rather than letters to uniquely identify banks. The SWIFT system however is superior in so far that each bank's SWIFT code is interrelated in the main system with the SWIFT codes of all correspondence banks they have accounts with. Ideally, and what the system has been designed for, one bank can send money to another while hopping through dozens of correspondence accounts in a matter of seconds. American "wires" can't do that. On top of that, "wires" are more expensive because: (1) royalty payments to the SWIFT system (2) operation fee for use of the "wire" (3) manual end sorting or confirmation required, depending on the bank's system. ACH, or the different national favours in other countries (notably Australia's BPay, Malaysia's bDagang and Germany's iTRANS) are fully automatic, much the same way the SWIFT system was originally, while the prehistoric "wire" is literally based on the telegraph and was later upgraded to telex (but never to fax) and finally to the interbank network. Anything that comes into the US from overseas is ALWAYS a SWIFT. It's in the US in a matter of nanoseconds and comes to a grinding halt in the first correspondence account where it is converted into an "wire" and then sent on. Works the same way the other way around. Now, if a foreign transfer arrived as an ACH, then one of the correspondence banks, tried to save a couple of Dollars and did a major screw up in the process, in so far that they factually stole the money for a few seconds. Rather than using a "wire" and correspondence accounts, they are likely to have simply made an ACH from their correspondece account, which now had a new original sender. Also, the number of characters in the MEMO line of both wires and ACH are very limited - often not enough to state all the jumps that funds had to do between banks and correspondence accounts on the way, hence the original sender can be obscured and funds become unsortable. While America has one of the most cutting edge banking sectors, it's decades behind when one cent rolls across the border and they have to label it afterwards. Instead they rely completely on the receiving (or sending) bank to figure it all out. Worse, most medium level banker have no clue about what I just wrote ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The One eyed man...
Graham, > > This is from my personal experience, and personal opinion. > And you are spot on as well :o) I was trying not to lash out too harshly, thinking that many people on the list might have not seen or experienced efficient banking systems and hence dismiss my remarks as mere rantings. I have recently been accused of being anti-American, of all things, as well, which is funny considering that we picked the US to incorporate most of our companies in. The real problem at hand, as I see it, is in fact the ignorance of both, banking staff and their clients, even denial, that their system could be outdated and somewhat lacking. Bankers in the know referred to it as the coming crisis some 12 years ago just before I decided to 'leave' the industry. Things have become consecutively worse ever since... One might go as far as blaming the savings & loans crisis for it all, because it was then when many, if not most, small banks shuttered their doors. After that bank employees became a commodity and training standarts became worse by the year - if that is indeed possible. But, as well know, in the era of globalization, the weakest link sets the standard for the rest of the world, as long as the weakest link is (1) of Western origin; and (2) enjoys some sort of protection from it's respective government against foreign competition. Hence, the Western Press and Institutions are bashing foreigners like the Japanese, Chinese, Brazilians, Russians, etc. for their 'weak, unorthodox' banking sectors. And the people in those countries buy into the BS and employ overpriced and undertrained Western Banking Consultans. Unfortunately this is likely to mean that New Zealand's and others' banking systems will come down to the American standard, in order to save on training and staff expenses just to survive the onslaught of citi, stancha, etc. The only silver lining is really HSBC, who, as it so happens, have the highest staff cost components of all large multinational banks, bare RBS Group and Deutsche. But, in the end, we have no other choice but using the banking system get money into and out of DGCs and hence even if we offer superior systems ourselves, we can't overcome that particular bottleneck. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Mock trial
Oh goodie, Can I file 'friends of the court' briefs? Serious, if you go through with it, then that would be something worth saving and linking to for people who don't know what it's all about, just yet. Count me in. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Happy Deepavali :o)
Happy Festival of Lights, Deepavali, to all our Hindu friends. 'CyberFrontier' is closed Friday through Sunday. Of course tech support and exchanger support will continue to operate throughout, but we can't garantee the typical response times of under 20 minutes during those days. Banks in Malaysia are shut from 23 October (noon) through Monday, 27 October, but operations in other countries are not affected. Enjoy!(TM) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: HUGE, long-term Australian bank heist
Just about indefinitely :o) The article suggests that he took different amounts, from which I deduct that he actually grabbed it from internal accounts in which transfer funds are parked (you know, the accounts where the money is that was transferred to someone, arrive 6 nanoseconds later and then is only credited to recepient after three days). Funds in those accounts are unmarked in so far, that they technically don't really exist, because if they did, then the bank was defrauding the recepient for three days, geddit? The only item relevant to the bank's daily fund close-out is the bottom line of those accounts, ie. the total value of transactions pending. Adding to the confusion is that the same accounts are being used for cross-booking of outgoing transfers to banks with which correspondence accounts exist. There is another, really nasty way to go about it, by the way. A hint would be that banks 'create' money when they loan out multiples of the deposits they have on the books. An interesting point on the side would be that if the guy had not confessed, it would have been 'really hard' to charge him, let alone convict of anything, because technically the money doesn't exist yet. Remember the Hacker who 'stole' the third digit behind the period (ie. $0.001) from interest the bank paid its customers, by rounding off the amounts? He actually took $0.0009 from any interest payment of the bank to a client at the average of 16,000,000 transactions (or $14,400.00 per day!!!) and transferred it into a trust account with the same bank. He got caught because he used the account to buy stuff, rather than transferring it elsewhere first. BUT, they couldn't convict him of anything because hacking wasn't illegal yet and $0.0009 is not money... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What's up with PrivaGold?
> the HTTP port is blocked - ssh still works though... hmm...) That usually suggests that the host suspended them. Shutting down the web server is first of three degrees of separation :o) Next is account suspension (no more mail, ftp, etc.), followed by deleting the BIND record and account. If my assumption is right, then they are likely to be behind with payment, because if there were other reasons, the host host would be likely to erase everything right away. Still, I do recall that there were a few discussions about PrivaGold and two of the other sites they are likely to have spawned. I think it was Ben or Adam who had the dirty on them and who swore blind that they are crook. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: dispute between Remco Boom and an exchanger
Hello Remco, >From what I hear they are above board beyond belief :o) Meaning that yes, they DO have that many accounts and transactions that it is entirely possible that they didn't find your transfer because it was labeled incorrectly or whatever else reason they might give. Don't forget, this sort of clerical stuff is often done by hapless interns who compete with the burgers they flipped last month, to find out who has the higher IQ. Now, we do know our way around banks and statements and can even decipher the meaning of cryptic transfer codes and even then it happens that we have amounts we can't match. This is more so whan a client sends funds from overseas as sometimes the sending bank takes a bite, the receiving one takes a bit, both try to cheat on the exchange rate and heaven only knows what scary things happen at the correspendene bank. This is to say, if you sent $5,000 in EUR into the US, what arrives could be anything between $4,800 and $5,100. Add to that that the correspondence bank made an ACH out of it an hence nobody looked there for the transfer from Europe. Four months is a bit on the long side, but still entirely possible for a large outfit, understaffed as they often are. So, you might just have to live with it and thank God that you got anything at all ;o) Just another day in cyberspace. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Sell six-digit egold account?
Well, now that you made it abundantly clear to everyone that 'old' accounts can be traded, the value of an early account in terms of trust has diminished, n'est-ce pas? I would say that special sequences are more likely to actually instill trust, because only e-gold can asign those and they usually ask what it's for, etc. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What is TGC Share?
Has it appeared to anyone that we are essentially turning our gold into paper when we invest in stocks? Just wondering. I know, people will now argue that shares are traded in gold and exchangeable only for gold and that therefore the share 'represent' gold. By the same token, I'd argue that it is essentially a promissary note twice removed from gold. And that makes it paper - digital paper if you will. Of course, TGC is generating revenue in gold and hence it is able to pay dividends and redeem shares for gold. That is if they are (a) profitable and (b) able to pay their way in gold as well - which they are unlikely to be able to do. I would expect that at least wages are paid in fiat. That in turn means that gold is being exchanged and as we do not know how much gold TGC keeps in stock and how much is being exchanged into fiat, we have no way of being sure that the shares are in fact redeemable for e-gold, are we? It may well be that if it came to the crunch and TGC would have to buy back their shares (which isn't regulated anywhere and hence there is no garantee that a sale to anyone but a third party is even possible), that they then would inexchange e-gold to honour their promise. And that, makes the shares paper. If the revenue fro the sale of the shares is kept in e-gold, then of course, the shares are not paper. But we have no way of telling, do we? Of course, I still think it's all a great idea and all, I was just pondering the eery similarities of how people with the best of intentions are creating precedents that other then abuse to remove the value components from money... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What is TGC Share?
Danny, Did you know that when stocks of share were first introduced, they were redeemable at base/face value? Similar to a partnership where one party wants out, shares could be returned to the company and sold at the base value which was determined through the actual sale value of the company's assets divided by the number of shares outstanding. Coicidentially that is why we use the term of shares outstanding ;o) Patrick, I agree that gold in a vault is dead capital and of little use to most of us. However, as I pointed out in my post, the reason for my pondering was how such a precedent often leads to the loss of the value base of money. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT ABOUT DGC, JUST A THOUGHT GAME OF SORTS Let's assume for the moment that there is 1,000 ounzes of gold in storage at gold-currency.dom and that an online casino goldslots.dom beginns to issue shares that are sold for gold-currency.dom units at 1 ounze per share. 1,000 shares are sold, goldslots.dom outexchanges the 1,000 ounzes to pay some new software it bought. People now hold 1,000oz worth of shares, there are 1,000oz in circulation, do you see where I'm heading here? In theory the number of ounzes in circulation has just doubled. People hold their shares believing that they are 'good as gold', but in order to trade all shares one would need to control all 1,000oz in circulation. If goldslots.dom decided to issue another 500 shares and there are takers for it, suddely there would be more shares in circulation than ounzes available to buy them all. All the while there are people who own 1,500 shares, each 'worth' an ounze but only 1,000 ounzes to trade them. Hence the inherent value of the shares even if it did not rise at all, would still be inflationary. And that is where one of the problems are when an exchange allows only one currency to be used for trade. The inherent problem would be removed, if people could swap 'bearer' shares for anything they want, of course. But hey, that means we just created an infaltionary fiat currency that started out as having a gold base and suddenly there is more paper than gold... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Looking for a server
Hello Karl, I am not sure why everyone thinks that the location of the server is relevant in terms of legalities when courts have clearly decided that the location of the operator is paramount. Of course, French courts went as far as saying that the location of buyers is the most relevant point when it comes to establishing valid jurisdiction. As far as I can see, where the server is located is only relevant if you are outright breaking the law of the land - the land you reside in and hope to draw your customers from. That said, your requests sounds awfully as if you were planning to spam, in which case we can't and won't help you. If however, that is not the case, then have a look at www.cyberica.net and email us for a more specific quote. On a different note, if you are not spamming, how about adding health insurance ( see www.cyfrocash.com ) to your product range? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What is TGC Share?
> > Which historical period / region are you thinking about there, Robert ?? > Up to and just prior to the South Sea Bubble :o) The times where people still believed that something had to be exchanged in a fair trade. But as many a reputable business had issued shares and used the revenue to invest into bubble shares the only way to avoid the whole economy to revert permanently to stone age partnerships (you hold her, I whack her over the head) was to seperate the value base from shares of stock. Now, this is not to say that owners of a venture can't cash out by selling shares. It is however to say that when a company issues shares with a face value based on the company's assets then shareholders should be treated as partners rather than as cash cows. And that is how it used to be. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: gold on paper
Hello Jim, I was wondering what kept you :o) In fact I was not speaking out against shares - or didn't mean to - at least initialy. I was trying to set the stage for what my latter post was meant to achieve namely warn about *possible* inflationary tendencies of e-gold derivatives, for lack of a better word. In private conversations with several clients of ours I realized that they believed that TGC shares were good as gold, NOT because of good and sound business practices and NOT because of dividend payments in gold, BUT because they paid gold for them and because they are traded in gold. Essentially many people appeared to be mistaking DBourse for 1MDC and seemed to think that they could 'outexchange' their shares. I was as flabbergasted about the thought as you are likely to be when you read my posts and mistook them for lashing out against stock or comments about what people should do with their money. Even some of those who are seemingly aware that outexchanges are not possible appear to have some weird concept about the mere fact of trading a share in gold gives the share an inherent value beyond mere bid and ask. As Danny pointed out, we could decide to trade Microsoft shares in gold and it would be no different. In fact we could swap shares for eggs or preused chewing gum if we wanted and found someone to trade with on that premise. The second item of concern for me was that because some people equate TGC shares with e-gold there is an inherent potential of perceived inflationary tendencies. The more shares are listed on private exchanges (which I am very much FOR, of course) the higher the volume of instruments of perceived value without enough 'currency' to support the perception. In a scenario plan one could envision that the demand for e-gold itself could be influenced through lively trading in shares on a market that only allows e-gold to be used as a means of exchange. Imagine there were 20 ventures listed with a combined market cap of USD 2,000,000.00 imagine further that people are keen on getting their hands on these shares. First there is a run on e-gold, 2,000,000.00 dollars' worth. Once the shares are bought and the sellers cash out there is a 2,000,000 dollar worth of e-gold surplus. Great times for exchangers. But, during the run and the subsequent oversupply e-gold Ltd would need to ensure enough flow of first e-gold and later cash. Of course, there is OmniPay to ensure that flow. But, how long would they need to add $2,000,000 worth of gold to the storage and later to sell the same amount? Points to ponder. Of course, I still believe that companies, just like partnerships should have to allow for avenues to let shareholders leave the partnership without needing a voting majority and winding up the company. Which by the way is how companies still are obliged to redeem their own shares, by being wound up and paying out all shareholders their cut from the sale of the company's assets. I feel that as the e-gold denominated equity markets are just in their infancy, the operators of the exchanges could set a new standard (which would actually be only taking a hint from history) and (re-)introduce a system where shares can be sold back to the company, with say, three months notice, based not on the share price, but on the actual value of the company's assets. This is likely to do wonders for accounting practices and assets valuations. After all, who would inflate their asset value if they did risk shareholders showing up calling their bluff? On a different note, how could you possibly benefit from dividend payments from TGC a dozen times? I know that we got our share of the loot twice and I don't believe that they issued unschedule dividends or anything? Or am I missing something? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
Well Jim, you see, we have borrowed against our shares to buy more shares to borrow against and we then traded some gold puts and ended up with almost twice the fiat we had started with and get to keep a cut of the dividends as well. We then bought e-gold from our own subsidiary at no surcharge, stored at 1MDC and threw a party from the profits. Just imagine what we could do if there were 20 companies listed and a bit more of activity. Now, as both Frank and you stated, OmniPay would have no problem to buy and later sell gold for $2,000,000.00 in my scenario. What both of you seemed to ignore is that this world of ours is far from perfect. Hence the 2,000,000 needed volume is likely to be spread over 200 exchangers who are bying from 20 exchangers who are trading with each other and in the end with OmniPay. In the meantime exchangers will increase fees fro in-exchange and drop fees for outexchange to make a quick buck, as they should. Next people who habitualy spend $100 a month at TGC and pay us $7.50 for a hosting account are struggling to get their hands on e-gold this month. Of course, as you suggested, some people have e-gold in stock to buy shares, but I could hold the internal trade stats of CF$x accounts at the time of the TGC casino against your argument. Basically there was quite a spike. And TGC didn't even sell out for months and JPM cornered 10% of the market. Based on that scenario, if there was 20 types of shares, and some were being bid up just before dividend time, ther *would* be a run on e-gold. And then there is the variable called spot rate. Imagine between OmniPay securing 2,000,000 worth and making the spends to the exchangers the market drops $8 per ounze. Of course, in gold terms that doesn't make a difference, but when the shares are sold and the sellers want to outexchange... All the while exchangers recall your posts and don't increase the fees on outexchanges because 'just yesterday everyone wanted to buy', and then the market drops some more... We are talking unprecendented volumes here. Sure there is a lot of e-gold in circulation and holding more or less steady. But if there was a healthy share market with lots of volume spikes during IPOs the amounts involved are not easily absorbed by a market (as in goods and services commonly traded everyday) that has reached equilibrium. And the there is the option that IPO revenue goes straight to the former owners who have little personal use for e-gold in the real world and are likely to outexchange large chunks as soon as they receive them... So, no it is not all well when suddenly there is more gold being used for share trades than for the 'normal' day to day dealings. And yes, it will influence the smoothness of transactions. I suppose time will tell, but I can almost see people exchanging shares instead of e-gold because at times it's so darn difficult to get e-gold. And I am basing this on experience as well. We were actually offered 2 TGC share as payment for something... In the end, I am throwing these things up for people to ponder not to defend them as gospel. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
Patrick, I actually think you got exactly where I was going with this, picked it up and took it to it's logic conclusion. And it took you only a few lines, too. Once people start using shares as a means to trade other stuff, we have a fiat economy alongside the e-gold system. It's a bit as if someone issued dollar bills that are redeemable for gold by the highest bidder where the issuer pays you a tiny amount of gold for not redeeming the bill and promises not to issue more bills than value of their undisclosed assets. From that perspective it already sounds like a fiat currency (minus the promise bit), innit? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
JP, Yep you are right, the use of the term fiat is incorrect. I should have called it paper which is what I meant. Oh and thanks for calling me mad. Appreciate the compliment. After all, the various forms and terms referring to insanity are all basing the definition of sane on the overall quotient average considered as the norm or normal. And hey, who wants to be average? :o) Cheers, Robert. PS - we host above average sites for below average rates at www.cyberica.net - they call us mad. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Shares N Gold continued
Looking at the replies to my recent posts I am starting to wonder if people could really be so stuck in value judgements or their views of the world to ignore simple mathematics. Opening the newspaper, I know they are. Amazingly, the programmers knew right away where I was coming from and where I was headed. It appears that our way of thinking always looks at x+y=z being equal to z=y+x, boring as it might be. On the other hand it appears that normal people only think about it in terms x and y and the value of z. In real world terms we had JP who expanded on my claim that once monetary instruments that are denominated in (e-)gold are being used as a means of exchange whenever e-gold was hard to come by, inconvenient, expensive, etc. that then we would get 'perceived inflationary tendencies'. JP went as far as applying the above and saying that any property that could be onwed and traded represented money. Note, he never said that it was currency. John then argued against that, essentially bringing in the concept of the difference betwen money and assets. Patrick wondered why not more trade was done in the real world with shares and Frank argued that we were actually talking about bartering. Jim D. equated inflationary tendencies, igonoring the word perceived, with a rise in the money supply while the number of goods and services are stagnant, the text-book definition of inflation, and then went on to take my examples apart, showing that they all had an inherent deflation as the direct result and wandered off arguing the flaws of the world view he implied I must be having. The world view he implies me having is far removed from the one I have, by the way. Maybe it is best summed up by: 'Live well and prosper, where possible not at the expense of others. And don't kick the face of the people on whose shoulders you are being carried' But back to the subject matter, which appears to be by far more complicated than I thought it would be. My points are: An increase in derivative instruments of a perceived value, such as shares of stock, increase the perceived available wealth, if the tangible wealth (gold) used to trade that perceived value is not increased in tandem, or alternatively the generated revenue from an exchange of wealth (sale of shares) is not being used to affirm the perceived value. In other words, if shares are being sold for e-gold and the revenue e-gold from the sale is being outexchanged then we are looking at the same amount of e-gold to trade with, but something additionnal of value to trade for. This would indeed lead to deflation if people did not use those same shares as a means of trade. The argument that shares have to be traded for dollars in the real world is incorrect in so far that shares are in fact often being used to buy other shares, as JP pointed out. Given that these shares represent a partial ownership of the assets of a company, which often include real property, there is in fact the instance where shares are being used to purchase property, albeit not outright. However, as it is obviously possible to do so and as just shown in fact being done, there is no reason why people can not make a deal in which they sell a house and expect shares as payment (very interesting taxation wise, by the way). Based on my own experience and it appears others have at least heard of similar instances, shares of TGC are being used as a means of exchange. If this catches on and people frequently accept shares as payment, then we are looking at the development of a system, parallel to exchangers. Note, there is no in-or out exchange involved if someone pays me with 2 TGC shares for a dedicated server. (Yes Jim, someone had to buy the e-gold to buy the shares first, but he did that only once). If I then choose to pay a programmer for his work in shares and he accepts that, there is a second transaction in parallel system. Essentially, about $4,000 worth of goods and services have exchanged hands, without a single e-gold transaction. Once this catches on more and more people will do the same thing, depriving e-gold of its fees and the exchangers of theirs. Yet, each time new shares are being issued, people need to get e-gold (once) to buy them. In essence, the same 100gr of gold could be used over and over in one IPO after the other, continuing to increase the numbers of shares used for bartering apart from normal trades. In other words, the amount of available means of exchange continues to increase while goods and services are stagnant and because the shares are gold denominated and can be exchanged for goods and services people will continue to believe that hey have a value in their own right, independent from what someone is willing to pay in e-gold for them. The system can work ad infinitum, of course. But there is no garantee that it will. You see, if people stopped trusting the shares of any particular company then the amount of e-gold they are willing to pay for the shares will dr
[e-gold-list] Re: GoldAge is honest & reliable
Graham, > > I would trust him with any valuable commodity I have (apart from my wife)! > Where did buy that valuable commodity? I might have mine valued if you tell me the commodity exchange you got yours from :o))) Cheers, Robert. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GoldAge $1,600 funding order. Where have you dissapeared after I sent you the money, Ragnar?
Same here. We have had dealings with GoldAge for a while and I know Ragnar as honest and helpful. If there indeed was some sort of problem, then you are not telling the whole story. Either way, if you sent them money and they received it, then you can be pretty sure to receive your e-gold spend. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GoldAge is honest & reliable
> > He is definitely an idiot. > And he must have not had any human contact for a while. I mean, sucking an ass whole is impossible, because the donkey won't hold still. Sucking an ass' hole is difficult as well, because it's attached to the ass. If we allow for the American spelling of the word arse, then it is just as difficult. I mean has he ever tried to wrap his mouth around anyone's arse and if so, where did he take the gusto from to suck given that his mouth is likely to be completely deformed at that stage? Just my take of his perception of biology. Cheers, Robert. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
"Your point is well taken, but you made one small mistake there, JP. 1mdc does NOT expand the money supply in any way. -- Patrick" In a way it actually does. Much in the same way a bank deposit or holding a balance in a CF$ customer account does. You see, when you 'deposit' your e-gold into the 1MDC account, and your 1MDC account is credited, your e-gold is still there as well. When you then use your 1MDC account to pay for a purchase to another 1MDC account you are using FastGrams, rather than e-gold. While your FastGrams change hands, the e-gold doesn't. Hence, theoretically if all e-gold was depositted with 1MDC, then the money supply would double. Although in this particular case there is the 1MDC caveat that the e-gold shall never leave the 1MDC e-gold account, and hence have of the doubled money supply would not circulate. At CF$ things are entirely different of course, but we are USD based not AUG. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
Increasing the money supply does not necessarily imply increasing the amount of monies circulated. The fact that JP' 1MDC does not 'use' the e-gold we deposit with them, doesn't change the fact that it exists. Say you buy a house and and rent it out. You then proceed taking out a loan and buying a second house of equal value. The rental income of the first house is just enough to pay the upkeep of the house and the interest of the loan. So the first house it not generating anything beyond covering your monthly costs related to same house. And you don't even live in it. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Real estate speculation and rising prices aside (although the gold price could rise just as well), You have one house that is dead capital and if you sold it all you'd end up with, is enough to pay the loan. And you have a second house of equal value. So you own the value of two houses minus the loan, which is the same amount you started with. Nothing changed for you. But, both houses exist. Total number of houses equals two, not one. e-gold > 1MDC is the same thing. Indeed, we are actually looking at tripple the original money, because of the real gold > e-gold > 1MDC factor. To add the other 2 thirds which are dead or dormant monies to the supply that is being used (ie. turn them into currency of sorts) e-gold as well as 1MDC would need to do something with them, which they are not, but it doesn't change the fact that all three amounts exist parallel from each other. If JP chose to use the e-gold to buy TGC shares, then that part of the portion would indeed be activated and we would suddenly be looking at the perceived inflationary tendencies I ahve been talking about for three days now. If the e-gold decides to lend the gold in storage to a mining company that wants to benefit from the high spot rates and undertakes to return any portion of the gold equivalent to the borrowed bars without notice whenever e-gold asks them to, then we have trippled the money supply. No need to quote TOSes or ensure me of the honesty and repuation of JP and e-gold, I know they'd never do it - but they are capable and all three, the real gold, the e-gold and fastgramms exist, in equivalent amounts, at the same time. Just like both houses exist. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: How good is gold? (was Re: e-gold for stocks)
Danny, > If you create 'e-land' , an e-currency backed by land ownership, you can > transfer pieces of the ownership just like we do with e-gold, but this > currency will be able to pay a yearly 'interest' based on the produce that > comes from the land, instead of charging a storage fee for protecting the > gold. That is already being done, but we don't call it interest and trade is person-to-person only. You might say that two people who complete a deal mail e-gold to shift a bar from left back row to front right row. Outexchanged are possible albeit with three months notice and the land is deeded to trustees for convenience. We call it AIM ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: How good is gold? (was Re: e-gold for stocks)
George, > Trouble is, that land could also "grow" radioactive dumps or a spaceport for > turism to Jupiter. The value of that land can change because some people > decide to do something with it or near it. Property value depends too much > of local factors, while gold does not. --- That is correct, unless you choose land used for agriculture, reasonably far away from cities and industry and get an insurance that covers the land value at the time of original purchase in cases of chemical poisoning and adverse acts of government. Was difficult to find the insurance company, but nevertheless possible. Gold on the other hand is highly political. The US had forbidden ownership of it, as had China, India had forbidden minting for a while and quite a few countries still regulate export. > > Having property backing a currency means you need to have people constantly > evaluate the property. Not really, as the land does produce a revenue itself we chose to fix the price of it. But in this case the goal is revenue with little to no risk rather than only a means of exchange. Still some clients do trade it quite actively. > > Money definitely moves toward an electronic era, but I doubt it will be > backed with land, houses, shares or... vodka. It will either be > electronic... paper or electronic gold, or both... On a different yet related note, under the Kyoto protocol plans where to issue carbon credits to countries with rain forests and to allow those countries to trade the credits with industries who are pumping excessive CO2 into the atmosphere, harming everyone. the idea being of course that developping countries are being paid fro protecting their forests while the main polluters are being penalized. That in itself is a kind of property backed currency. There were even discussions to include tree farms and allow private allocations an open exchange were credits could be traded. Of course, everything fell apart when the Mad Moron took office and the US pulled out of the Kyoto treaty. Imagine it would have worked out and a country like Brazil would have decided to base the Brazilian Real in their carbon credits... or private institutions would have started to green the deserts issuing a DLC against carbon credits. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold for stocks
Patrick, Just one item: Inflation isn't the same as rising prices. Not every inflation results in higher prices and higher prices are not always caused by inflation. Having an increase in the money supply with stagnant supply of goods and services only leads to higher prices when merchants charge more and people pay more. The little economy of ours, with the shares, 1MDCs, and other e-gold 'based' currencies sees constant increase in money supply while at the same time overall prices of goods and servies are actully dropping. The reson being that merchants are competing with each other through pricing their products or services lower than others So we have text-book inflation together with falling prices. I think it's called something hybrid like desinflation. Maybe invest in a coffee shop? ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: How good is gold? (was Re: e-gold for stocks)
Just a comment to the footnote. As mentioned we have insurance against government actions. And we are also 25 years tax exempt on land, produce, sale, income, etc. Gold is so much easier to take and run with. Real property is slightly more difficult - especially the running part, if not the taking. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: How good is gold?
Patrick, So basically the best choice is arable land with highly fertile soil, ocean view, access to a sandy beach, sitting on a deep-core gold mine and being in short distance but upwind from an International airport :o))) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: How good is gold? (was Re: e-gold for stocks)
John, > > Sounds nifty until you realize Kyoto is a BS government scarcity decree on > the world economy. Climate shifts from warm periods to deep ice ages have > come and gone well before we ever got here and the factors affecting such > things are probably beyond our powers, and up to much greater influences. > Volcanoes for example can absolutely dwarf impacts of man made sources > depending on their activity. Putting arbitrary limits and controls that will > have huge ramifications on the output of the world economy based on > questionable science and data is foolhardy. > I agree wholeheartedly :o) I never subscribed to the idea that carbon emissions cause global warming (especially as just 20 years ago the same mob predicted a new ice age because the carbon cloued would block the sun). However, I do care about the quality of air I breathe and the amount of pollutants my vegetables absorb (you haven't tasted lettuce until you tried some in a village in Asia), although I can't do much about the stuff that's in my meat. I liked the concept of carbon credits because I am a pratical minded person and happen to have lived in areas where rain forrests were logged and the land turned into a barren surface in a matter of a few months. Paying people not to use their natural resources makes perfect sense to me, and having those pay who consume the most appears the fairest deal. It's not as if the West couldn't afford cleaner waste disposal and gasification instead of slow incineration. It just costs more. Being a lot in Malaysia I have also seen the sky yellowish grey for weeks on end from forrest fires started by illegal loggers 600 km away. Being ocean front we get the best air most of the time and having to breathe that grey soup lead to all sorts of complications. Paying the people there to stop logging hence makes sense to me. I do however agree, that the markets should set the price - as in fact they did during the pilot projects and case studies. The timeber value of the tree, divided by the 20 years it would take to replace loggable growth times, times the amount of carbon the tree would absorb, times estimated number of trees per hectare. To dermine the amount of excessive carbon (ie. who has to pay and how much) simply take the total amount of carbon emitted by the industry of a country and divide it by the number of inhabitants. Do a global estimat to get the average, and then calculate who produces more emissions per capita and how much. And this way of calculating it actually rigged in favor of industrialized nations who have access to the latest technologies while developping countries use mainly outdated installations that pollute much more per capita, but overall much less than their Western counterparts. Don't forget, it all started with us industrialized nations telling them developping nations that they can't cut their trees anymore and can't use certain gas compounds for refrigeration, etc, etc. So, in all fairness, it wasn't them who started it. They were happy logging, strip-mining and polluting for a quick buck while we busily dragnet-fished 12 miles off their shores... I'm neither green, nor an environmentalist and like making money (in gold please) as much as the next, but I'd like to ensure that there is something left to spend it on. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
Danny, > > So the ultimate result is pretty much the same. > Without extra money supply the average person would now be able to buy 10 > times more shoes for his money, because they have become cheaper. > With the extra money supply the average person now has 10 times more money > to buy these shoes which are still selling at the same price. In the real world people MUST buy 10 times more shoes because the quality is so low to ensure ongoing consumption, because the money supply keeps growing and despite everyone earning more, somehow everyone ends up owning less and owing more. The reason for that is that we are all paying the interest on governement debts and interest on bank loans, factored into the price of everything we buy. As you pointed out, a gold standard would limit the possible amount of interest to the roughly 2% of new gold mined every year plus the relative amount of productivity gains. So, in fact I would happily deposit my gold with a bank at no interest, because I could assume that if I withdraw it in 5 years I will be able to buy more for it. At the same time the bank can loan my gold out at 2% effective interest, knowing that productivity gains and falling prices will take care of the depositors. The only people that should be unhappy about such an arrangement should be bankers, don't you think? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Rebilling idea
Hello Everyone, We actually have a system in which we rebill on behalf of several clients (factoring, for lack of a better word?) by email. The sytem is pretty simple, so I'm not sure if what you are talking about is really needed. Our clients submit the email address, billing details, billing cycle, and amounts, as well as payment options of their customers/subscribers. Our sytem generates an email that includes SCIbot URL, a credit card payment URL (and of course a CF$ CashDirect transfer request), addresses it to the client by name if available, includes the details the invoice is for, sends it 3 days before expiry/due and again on expiry/due date, and (optional) traces to where the bill is being delivered to, when its being read and by whom and reports back the results. > ... > > The problem with this is that it is not secure to log in from an emailed > > link. > > True, you'd want your customers to already be expecting an > email from you with the link at that time of the subscription > period. ... I don't think that is such a problem - at least in our experience customers click anyway if they know where the bill is from and what it is for. If it does become a concern in future, then we can modify the system to spawn a pop-under directly to the payment page and add instructions to the invoice text that tells customers that page has just opened in their browser. > > Sounds interesting. The only potential problem I can foresee > would be aiding the creation of a horrible new form of spam > that's internal to the payment system to go along with all the > external spam we see via email (but maybe if it cost a bit to > submit the invoice, payable to the proposed payee??). I think the only benefit in using the e-gold internal system to send payment requests would be if e-gold allowed automatic rebilling, which it doesn't and I believe it shouldn't. As far as I can see James is spot-on with his assumption that the type of operations who use automatic re-charging are often hoping that the client forgets what he is paying for and is just too lazy or busy to cancel the recharge order. That is not exactly the type of practice that would benefit the reputation of e-gold as a whole, is it ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
> > People do not buy 10 times more shoes with the extra money. ___Explain that to my wife please :o) > They buy one pair of shoes, just like 50 years ago, but now they have money > left for a mobile phone, a PC, a mountain bike, a massage,... ___ It is not entirely true though. The shoes (cars/clothes/appliances) they made 40 and 50 years ago were built to last as the market seemed limitless. Then everyone had 6 pairs of shoes, one-and-a-half cars, three TVs... To keep the production cycles running while consumer numbers were shrinking at the same time, in real terms, they initially made things cheaper, so that less wealthy consumers could indulge (appicances, cars, etc.). After that market was satisfied, the had to reduce the quality and make sure that the life-span of products becomes ever shorter. An aquaintance's grand father passed away recently and he left behind a black-and-white TV from 1968, fully functional, shoes and suits from the 50s that picked up collectors' values at an antique shop. Do you still have a functional TV you bought, say 15 years ago? Shoes with decent soles from ten years ago? Heck, I'm going through three motorbikes and two cars in a decade... > > > Every debtor also has a creditor out there, and it is certainly not the > government. So, somebody is receiving these interest payments. > Everyone owing more, that is not possible. ___ One word: Banks. Then they buy other banks, insurance companies, real estate, other large companies... There is still a lot to buy for them, you know. Globalisation makes it possible. I wonder if Marx might be right in one way or another and somewhere down the road a few banks own the planet between them. > > But wasn't it you who criticised 'getting something for nothing' when we > talked about interest and islamic banking? > If your gold buys more after putting it away for 5 years, aren't you getting > something for nothing too? ___ I am not getting something for nothing. I still have the same I had before, but people who want what I have (tangible) are willing to give me more goods and services for it. > The people who created these productivity gains should reap the full > benefit. ___ They are. Their costs are sinking as well and they get more for their gold. > > And a bank can go belly up. Why would you risk giving your gold to them at > zero interest? ___ How does paper/fiat currency protect me against a bank going belly up? I believe that in a gold currency system the risk of banks going belly up is more or less limited to bad management or outright fraud. I would have the same risk if I was paid 10% interest on fiat deposits, per month, n'est-ce pas? There was a question how the scenario relates to Australia. I belive the city of Sydney has a debts of over $3 billions? Adding the federal, state, shire and communal debts, the total burden is likely to be higher by far. Then add the burden of the DSS/dole, punitive taxes for starting a business and the hidden cost when hiring staff, and you end up with a huge amount that is unnecessarily deducted from each dollar you spend. Many countries are largely debt-free but manage to do so only because of almost disposessive taxes and social levies. The bottom line is the same, we all pay for our respective government's follies and shortsightedness with every dollar we spend - and most of us are getting poorer in the process. Well, I don't, I never joined the tax club to begin with, don't own anything on the planet and have no intention to ever change that but that's me, billions of others stay on their paddock for regular shearing ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: decision time for gold price!
Now there is a smart way to gauge the group's expectations. The trouble is then only, would you use contrarian techniques or go with the flow? Decissions, decissions... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] something weird happening in Asia
It appears that there is a gap of up to 4% between USD > EUR exchange rates and exchanging USD>PHP>EUR. Depending on the time of the day and as a strictly cash-only business, it appears as if the USD is valued 2-4% higher in terms EUR against the Philippine Peso. That means, if one exchanges $10,000 in PHP and the PHP into the € equivalent the savings over a direct $>€ exchange are up to $400.00 The weird thing about it is of course, that it should actually be the other way around. The Philippines generates much more Dollar income than EURo income. Hence Dollars are supposed to be plentiful and Euros less so. Therefore one would imagine that if there was a difference in exchange rates between the Philippines and international exchanges, that the difference would be in favour of the Euro, not the other way around. It appears that for some reason the Philippines are the odd one out and demand for USD is higher than demand for EUR. Surely millions of Filipinos are not trying to get their hands on dollars while there is still potential for the rate to drop further against the euro, or are they just so used to using USD that they don't care? And if that is the case, are we looking at a new trend of the populations of emerging markets preferring dollars over euros while their governments do not? Any suggestions? Cheers, Robert budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: something weird happening in Asia
> > That's a great arbitrage opportunity. All you have to do is take your > dollars, exchange them for pesos, exchange those for Euros, and exchange > back to dollars. You should have 4% more dollars. Repeat this again with as > much money as possible. > The problem there is only that I have to start with dollars, end with euros and can't exchange euros for dollars in the Philippines ;o) We did one set, have a pile of euros and need them exchanged into dollars, which we will do in Europe. But that is where it pretty much ends. We would need to use a big enough amount to warrant two carry-on couriers flying back and forth, and I'd love to see the guys at customs in Europe when someone arrives every second day with a suitcase of Euros and leaves every other day with a suitcase of Dollars. I had a chat with UPS and DHL, but they don't wanna know about it either. Not to forget that walking around in Manila from bank to bank with a million or two in cash is a certified garantee to ask for trouble. Using transfers instead of cash (USA > PHI > EU > USA) wouldn't work because what we win in the Philippines we use on the spreads in the US and EU. I fear it's one of those arbitrage oportunities that only exist because it is unfeasible to take advantage of them on a large scale. Still, I'd love to find out why the Philippine banks give the USD preferrence over the EUR at the moment. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Purpose of Saving
One more reason people want to be able to rely on the value of money, so that there is an actual benefit to save the surplus capital income to aquire more capital later-on. Hence we are back on the old argument that money is more likely to have a consistent value, if it is redeemable for something of value by representing that same item of value. Gold appears to be general consensus here, is the best choice, but other items in finite supply can be used as well. To think that von Mises could have lived almost at any time since the Rennaissance and his thought would have been applicable to that time just as much as today... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy hosting http://www.cyberica.net budget & privacy domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.com start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Yes I'm Trusted --- asianagold.com
Aren't Malaysian customers just great? Not only has there to the best of my knowledge never been any problems, they also recognize good service when they see and appreciate when they receive it. And that is about 50% of the reason why we picked Malaysia as our Asian base. Congrats Joel. :o) Cheers, Robert. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Laughing about Life, an Indian perspective
One of our hosting clients is acclaimed Richard Crasta ( www.richardcrasta.com ), who offers all his books online and accepts e-gold as a payment option. The site also has some nice tidbits and sample chapters from some of his of writings, and if you like my sickening sense of humour, you'll love his twisted work. Richard is Indian by birth, critic by persuasion, Christian by upbringing, and American almost by accident. Worth a look, worth a read and certainly worth a lot of thought, maybe even worth a glance in the mirror for many of us. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Hello Jim, At it again, are we? :o) You know, Graham paid a hefty price for promoting OSgold, having put his wallet where his mouth was. Now, if INTgold is another dud, he is likely to get burnt another hole into his pocket. I understand that innocent till proven guilty does not apply in line your line of thinking if a party has been guilty of a similar deed before, do I read you right? So, if someone was the driver in a road accident a year ago, he shouldn't be permitted to ever take passengers aboard again? Now, I am not defending INTgold, although they did finally list our hosting services in their merchant directory (yeay), but am really trying to figure out why you keep battering Graham for something he did over a year ago, paid a hefty price for and may or may not be doing again, mainly at his own expense? Before you start quoting the figures of people who lost funds with OSgold and repeating that Graham was still selling OS when it was pretty clear that they were about to fail, let me ask you this: If Graham had not sold those people OSgold, do you think those people would not have lost their money? No serious, do you really think so? It's a bit like selling a gun, something I guess you might better relate to. People with guns kill people. Gun makers know that people with guns *might* kill people. Yet they continue manufacturing and selling them - with your vocal blessings - I might add. So Graham was promoting hair-trigger semi-automatic rifles at discount with extra ammo. People shot themselves and others in the foot. Graham now offers a new brand gun, that may or may not be just as dangerous. But he ain't not forcing noone at gunpoint to buy, is he? So, being a libertarian soul as you claim to be, shouldn't you just thrive in the thought that Graham is increasing people's choices? Graham is not making the guns, he just sells them when people come to his shop, or do I see that wrong? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The problem of land value (was:Re: gold four pillars)
Hello David, Isn't your model a bit too abstract, yet at the same time incomplete as it does not allow for growing population and continued reduction in arable land? What I mean to say is that due to continued net growth in population (allowing for reductions in some industrialized nations being balanced through the influx of immigrants from nations that continue to experience population growth), land becomes relatively more scarce, independently from the prevailing interest and rental factors. Adding to this the continued reduction of arable land and the growth and expansion of natural desserts and man-made infertile soils (over-irrigation, over-fertilization, etc.), the amount of usable land is gradually decreasing. Now, if that holds true, and it possibly will for decades to come, then arable land might in fact become scarce enough to become more valuable than average residential properties. The resoning behind this claim would be that in order to feed an ever larger population, one will need to start using barren areas to build greenhouses, clean up the spoil, use hydroponic growth methods, etc. The currently high cost of such installations makes it unfeasible due to the low cost of overly available foodstuffs. However, if the amount of available food starts to decrease and the requirement for more food continues to increase, food prices will increase. Higher food prices will warrant more investments into food production facilities which in turn will first lead to a sharp rise in the value of agricultural land - until the prices reach a level at which they will be at par with the cost of geening barren areas, building floating orchards, etc. On a side note, *some* land that has not not been polluted through pesticides, etc. could proof an invaluable source of fresh water... Not to reduce the obvious work you have already put into the model and formulae it is based on (great job by the way) but unless we are able to manipulate fractuals into any type of matter at will (which would then make gold useless as money), we are depending on each square foot of soil more than on anything else on the planet - unless we kill off a billion or two of the inhabitants and start using their land to grow our food in say, three generations... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
> Howdy. > Getting by. > > Shall I mark you down for the > cheering section? Yay lions, boo Christians? > So now you are against lions too, are you? What on Earth did they do, other than play with their food before eating it? > > I think you mistake a discussion list for a court of law. > Naw, is just that you act as if you were the prosecutor in a case that has been tried dozens of times and on which the judges (ie. not you but the list at large) each are likely to have made up their minds by now. But each time anyone mentions INTgold you appear to appeal against the judgement of everyone who hasn't found Graham guilty as charged. Which each time prompts me to come in at his defense. > If you want > a state with the power to deny permission for you to use > your property, go live in a police state. Er, maybe you do. > Naw I don't. I was aware of the (pretty low) extent to which local authorities interfere with their citizens before moving here. And not holding US citizenship helps to stay freer than most. > > Now, as to this hypothetical driver who has smashed up to > thousands of passengers in his wreck a year ago, yeah, he > might be taking more passengers on board. I'm not going > to be one of them. Is that okay with you? > That is perfectly all right with me. I mean who would want to sit in a bus in which another passenger keeps distracting the driver from the road? ;o) > Or do people > in your police state have to hop aboard when the maniac > is driving if you happen to like the destination? > You do hate the idea that someone might have chosen a country that you consider less free than yours, while you stayed put and continued to complain, don't-cha? In my book, staying means consenting. We are nowadays able to pretty much ship the family and our belongings and settle wherever we want. I chose to make use of the option because I believed that if I stayed then I was to blame for things I did not like as much as the people who did things I did not like. For now I am very happy in Malaysia and with the way she is treating me. If that changes, I will move elsewhere. > > You want to express sympathy for GK's losses on OSGold, > please make him provide audited financials to prove these > losses. And show audited financials for the gains on > OSGold related exchanges. > In my dealings with GoldNow, Graham has always been a correct and trustworthy person to deal with. Hence I choose to trust him. If you want financials, please ask him yourself ;o) > > Mountain climbing enthusiasts found a frozen > 5,000 year old man in the Italian Alps a few years ago, > and it looks like he was killed in a fight with some guys > armed with the high powered projectile weapons of their > day, bows and arrows. Guns are tools. > I seem to recall, that it was female who died from what was deemed a skull would caused by a spear or a primitive axe of sorts? But then, maybe there are several of them in natures fridge up there... > > Yes. They also know that people with guns might defend > themselves, their property, or their freedom. > One would imagine that when people live in a decent place among decent people they won't need to defend themselves, but this is off subject, of course. > > Indeed. I gather you condemn gun manufacturing based on > some utopian idea ... > Nope, I don't. In fact there is not much I condemn, especially if it doesn't concern me. Got a license to carry, but rarely do. > > > But he ain't not forcing noone at gunpoint to buy, is he? > > Ain't not? Double negative? Are you trying to lampoon > the way Texans talk? > Now, why would I do something like that? I hope I didn't breach any copyrights or anything? But that is unlikely, because, it's not even a Texan 'invention'. Bavarians and Austrians are known to 'av dunnit' long before the first Texan was born - assuming that you exclude American Indians from Texans because they din't call it Texas then. If you have a another look, it's also a tripple negative because a double negative would turn into an affirmative ;o) > > I don't claim to be a libertarian. My philosophy is > libertarian to the extent that it is very clearly not > authoritarian. > You are a lucky guy, man. I don't even have a philosophy, I just like to bitch when I think something is unfair. > > I'm not where you are, so I am not able to guess at what > you might see. A fair witness would not agree to say that > you see anything. > I'll email you a photo of the view from the balcony, overlooking the Indian ocean. Of course, one could argue that at the time I worote the post you would be fairly accurate in assuming that I was seeing the text as I was writing it, but hey, we wouldn't want to take each other's words literally now, would we? > > You are welcome to have your opinion. > Thanks for reaffirming my expectation that you do not mind me having an opinion of my own. And thanks for sharing yours. And for taking the time sharing in mine. Cheers, Robert. bu
[e-gold-list] Re: The problem of land value (was:Re: gold four pillars)
David, I stand corrected. Should stop posting all the time and get back into reading theory ;o) Thanks for clearing it up. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The problem of land value (was:Re: gold four pillars)
JPM, Until we run out of natural gas to make fertilizer with... Also, not everyone favors gentechnology grown on cardboard and while there is enough to feed to world several times over, I wonder if there still was when there were no more subsidies. And while prices for food do indeed keep dropping, I doubt that that would be the case when prices reflected the actual cost of production. Otherwise you are right of course. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: density and other matters
There are many shades of grey Jim. Please don't take what I consider responsible behaviour as an indication that you finally figured out under which category to sort me. I might in fact not fit into any and yet in a way into most of the mutually exclusive categories you seem to have created to sort people into. Just because I own a few pieces of rainforest and choose not to exercise the logging rights, doesn't make me a 'greenie'. The fact that I don't belive that everybody should be given a gun, doesn't make me ant-gun ownership and the fact that I believe that a certain level of regulation in inter-human relationships is likely to be a good thing, doesn't make me a nazi. Nor does the fact that I think that people should not kick others just because they can make me a socialist. I did sum up my believes - which ten to shift with increasing experience - into what Graham adopted as a sig file for a while. Please don't pretend that I was a tree-hugging, pinko-Islamist, police-state endorsing, anti-developement moron. I am a realist. Are you? Yet I care how things I do affect others. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Nuts
Hello Jim, > > Be careful when you read between the lines that you don't > just make stuff up out of whole cloth. > I wouldn't see it as making stuff up, but more as jumping to conclusions which are then used as a base to build an argument on that has nothing to do with the subject matter, but is still a fun exercise at times. It does appear to be a habit here, so I do get carried away at times. > > You are such a sweetheart for him. You two should get a room. > I can barely handle wife and g/f and do need to make time to reply to you, so that'll have to wait. > > There is an old saying, "If I fight and run away, I live to > fight another day." But, a corollary is if you don't fight > at all, well, that's described by an entirely different set > of terms. > While we are at old sayings: "Only a fool fights an army on his own". And for an infiltrator that wants to change things from within you are too far without, not to mention to vocal ;o) > > I don't agree with your silly notion that staying in Texas > functions as consent to being governed. > Not agreeing is one of the last rights you get to exercise, as long as you comply you are free to complain, I believe. Haven't been to Texas though and hence can only form an opinion based on your statements. I don't accept > any blame for how things are here, since I did not make > them this way. > This is an old notion people tend to defend themselves with after something bad has come to pass and they are asked why they let it happen. You didn't pull the trigger, you didn't push the button, wasn't you, someone else is to blame. Unfortunately, reality appears to judge differently. Over time people tend to get punished for the actions of their respective governments - either by that same government, or the next, or an outside force. > > I wouldn't imagine anything of the sort. A gun culture is > a part of Texas heritage, and one of the best parts. One > finds that an armed society is a polite society. > You may well be the first person to go down in history as having called Texans polite :o))) However, I found that an armed society is a scared society full of distrust for each other. > > > Got a license to carry, but rarely do. > > I guess that's something. Getting licences to use your > own property. Special. > See what I mean about jumping to conclusions? I never said I owned a weapon. To carry one, which one can imply me doing occasionally as I said that I would, albeit rarely, means I must have one. It does however not mean that I own one. Most badged low-lives have weapons, without owning them, government issue, as it were. This is most often the case in countries where gun-ownership is illegal. > > > You are a lucky guy, man. I don't even have a philosophy, > > You probably do, but it is unexamined. > No, I decided that philosophies have the habit of making one narrow-minded and hence decided I couldn't afford having one. > > > I'll email you a photo of the view from the balcony, > > I would not agree that you see anything. A blind man can > take a photograph. > No he can not. Cameras take photographs, not people, irrespective of them being blind or not. A blind man however has no concept of vision, could never imagine the workings of light being captured on film and hence would be unable to construct a camera. Ahhh, knit-picking a knit-picker, innit great? Cheers Mate and have a great weekend :o) Robert. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: density and other matters - e-land now!
JP, why don't you rise to the occasion? ;o) As Danny says, "Money is what people are willing to accept as such", and if structured in a way that it generate revenue on it's own without being subject to risky market movements (ie. might be a good idea not to base e-land on a block of flats), it may just work. Wanna give it a go, then let's talk off-list. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: ... and e-weed etc.
Patrick, I'm not into weeds, etc. but the e-f**k got me thinking. What would be the terms to redeem, say two units of e-f**k and is redemption done in local currency or in American broad? Also, does e-wine deposits count towards e-f**k redemptions, or is there a risk of iDivorce involved? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com > > All of these, e-wine, e-land, e-weed, or e-f**k could be valued in > terms of a homogenous asset like gold or dollars and traded > accordingly. The total value of the wine, land, weed, etc. could even > EXCEED the total amount of actual gold or dollars available for trade > and the whole thing could still work. > > -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: e-wine (was Re: density and other matters - e-land now!)
Danny, > ... I am still lucky enough to get sex free > of charge :-) Had too much early redemptions of e-wine and e-snow, huh? Since when has there ever been free sex in history? Are you saying a neighbour drops by, gets busy and buggers off afterwards? Anything else is not 'free'. Consider the cost of storage and upkeep of the average female. Cheaply obtained, they still cost time, effort and money to maintain. TANSTAAFF... Cheers, Robert. PS - sorry ladies, please replace 'female' with 'partner' to avoid anger at my post. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: "Meltdown" in Middle East Ignites Gold
The question may well be if we have seen an interim double-top? Of course, as the noise increases and more people jump on the wagon there might be momentum to push it above the 400 anytime. The interesting bit will be when the big boys start taking profits again and if a price below $370 (if the profit takers do indeed push it that low) will lead to panic sales... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: there's a doji for you JimD
Jim, > > Thank goodness that double top was blown out of the water! > => My thoughts exactly. I would have waited having to sit and wait to see if the $370 holds. What is your take on the likely machine buying targets? Meaning, will traders have buy orders after a close above $400.00 or will they take profit when the market touches $400.00 and falls back to around current levels right afterwards? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Shoppers Spend e-gold at Amazon.com
JPM, > > Your comment would be like complainign to Visa card about the prices > at a shop! :) > => Now that is an idea. I wonder if VISA would respond to such a complaint. I mean, in my experience their customer support staff seems not exactly to be burdened with a high IQ. To put it in other words, they would be quite likely to loose a game of checkers against the plastic plant in the foyer. Graham, There is a business opportunity there. Talk to amazon about becoming their reshipper in NZ, so they can ship all items ordered from NZ to you and save freight costs :o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Hosting
Look no further than www.cyberica.net or our esteemed friends at www.katzglobal.com Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: High-interest accounts?
> > What's the best rate (either vs. gold or vs. dollar or vs other > relatively stable currency or commodity) that you've heard of? > 100% yield on 1:1.8 risk ratio. It's called Roulette ;o) Sorry, just had to. Cheers, Robert. PS - Lotto has higher profits, but the odds about the same as Saddam or Osama getting caught within 24 hours. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: new trustee
As long as it isn't T. Rusty it's fine by me... Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: GolNow or should we say GoldNEVER Service Complaint
Has it appeared to you that Graham might just not have any DMT/Alta funds? As far as I can see he actually posted here trying to find some... It's amazing how people always believe that exchangers have to have stock of every paltry DGC and carry the risk of price fluctuations, provide instant service, reply to every email, hold their hand, etc. for a few measly percents. And then people ask us why we are not retailing :o) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Finding serious e-gold investors...
> Jim, do you know if e-gold will ever again commission an audit? > > Also, is the old audit still on the site somewhere? I didn't find it > in the site map, and the word "audit" does not even appear in the User > Agreement. > With over 1,000,000 accounts and the highest volume/turn-over in terms of transactions, I believe the trust factor among users by far outweighs any audits by now. In the end, what is an audit really worth? The bars could be borrowed, bought on credit, or could be sold 20 seconds after the audit. Certainly, having audits strengthens the reputation of an operator, but in the end e-gold has critical mass without audits, the others don't, despite audits. We are getting hundreds of e-gold payments from hosting customers (which by now hold steady at just below 10% of our overall business) and haven't had a single request from any client to pay in e-bullion, GoldMoney, pecunix, etc. It appears that people who have accounts with any of those operators all have e-gold accounts as well. And that means that e-gold offers economics of scale for a business operator, others don't. Imagine, if from thousands of clients, 10% pay with e-gold and a handfull want to pay with other currencies, mathematics dictates to turn those away or refer them to an exchanger to get 'better money', simply because the other currencies are worth the administrative efforts for smaller merchants. Audits are good. Trust and critical mass are better. Unless you mistake e-gold for a retirement savings plan, of course. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-GOLD MOVES TO BAN ICE CREAM ?!????
Isn't this more an indicator of how confused people really are? Attention spans seem to be shrinking rapidly, spoiled for choice and bombarded with options and opinions, pedestrians are taking more and more to chosing one of many prefabricated opinions, together with prejudice and built-in adversaries. Hence, when you state a fact to them, they necessarily believe that the fact you stated must represent your opinion, much in the same way their opinons represent the only facts acceptable to their view of things. (DOH!) Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce & e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Finding serious e-gold investors...
Hello Drew, I know, I am not Gordon, but think that he is likely to have similar thoughts on the subject. > If you promoted and advertised the logo's of other payment options > (Pecunix, Goldmoney etc) as much as you did e-gold and paypal then you might > find that people started paying in these newer "more serious" (quote Sidd) > currencies. Why should Gordon, or any merchant for that matter provide free promotion to any particular DGC/IG ? I am sure that if there were more users that KatzGlobal would jump on the bandwagon and accept payment in that currency. Cyberica on the other hand doesn't use PayPal for card processing and otherwise only deals in currencies that we believe to be backed by gold and easily exchangeable for e-gold, which is the only currency we don't mind having a balance in - well, okay, the funds go straight to 1MDC once a month, but that is the same thing, in the end. > Why would you NOT be interested in promoting currencies with stronger > governance than the two you predominately push? I believe that governance becomes secondary to volume from a merchant's point of view. After all we value turn-over and fast circulation times. > I think you would find the % change if you did. Most likely you are right. But as i said, where is our incentive and why would we bother? It is in our vested interest as merrchants to have clients focus on one or two DGC/IG and keep things simple for everyone. Even if we were being paid some incentive for promoting other currencies (as e-gold and INTgold do), it is still questionable if it was worth our time. The bottom line is after all that we have to pay infrastructure and equipment bills in fiat and need to outexchange (unless a merchant happens to have some deals with an exchanger) quite frequently - especially smaller operators and merchants. The more currencies that need exchanging, the higher the fees, the lower the profit, while at the same time the administrative work-load increases. I fear, the only way to change this would be if someone offered DGC > DGC automatic exchange interface which merchants could implement into their payment gateways. In other words, 11 USD of gold or 1gr of Gold, whatever currency you got, can be exchanged into whatever currency the merchant wants - preferably at no charge. As e-gold has the market pretty much cornered, it would be up to the other currency operators to team up and offer a similar solution to merchants. If my client can spend $11 worth of pecunix and I get $11 worth of e-gold/1mdc/goldmoney, depending on my settings, then, I am pretty sure, all merchants will begin to accept all currencies and the DGC economy might go through it's first major rennaisance. The alternative is of course that e-gold continues to grow exponentially and all other operators serve specific niche markets. Of course, Gordon might disagree with my view of things, as may many other merchants, but I honestly doubt it. At the end of the day, we want to make money with a minimum of unneccessary administration tasks. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: E-GOLD MOVES TO BAN ICE CREAM ?!????
Life is > a lot more helter skelter than it has been in past decades, when you had > more down time and, with less distractions, probably a more focused, less > confused, sense of reality. > Sad but true. I wonder if people with less choices end up being overall happier? Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Finding serious e-gold investors...
Danny I do agree that most accounts have a small balance, but that holds true for the amount of money many people have in their wallets, does it not? People appear to be treating e-gold as money, something they use to buy things with - which is what we promote it for in Asia, by the way - not as an investment. One of the answers I am sure I would be getting if I asked my clients why they don't exchange more than they need and keep some in their accounts is that people treat e-gold in the same way they treat a foreign currency. One gets some in order to spend abroad, but it's useless elsewhere. The many small earners who joined various paid email reading programs etc. and who are outexchanging their monthly earnings would be further testamony to that. Further, as more and more e-gold accounts are being opened from Asia, $10 - $50 is actually a serious balance in countries where people earn $50 - $250 a month. --- Sidd, I don't think you got me right. When talking about trust, I mean that people are beginning to show the same trust for e-gold that they show for fiat. People believe that if they have e-gold in their account they can go to websites and buy goods and services for it. This has little to nothing to do with trusting e-gold Ltd. or trusting that the gold is really there. Quite frankly, in an active mercantile environment the only one who gives a darn if there is any gold there is the one who holds it at the end of the day. Everyone else used it and spent it in exchange for goods and services. As other currencies are used less actively and as the number of sites accepting them as payment is smaller, those other currencies *must* show that there is gold there, while e-gold doesn't need to, because nobody really wants the gold; they want goods and services. Why else would more and more people use evocash - which had been questioned as a viable alternative from the onset, and which we still do not accept as payment for our services? It is because people believe that they can buy goods and services with it. I think it was Danny who said a while ago that in the end, money is what people are willing to accept as payment for goods and services. And if a currency is not flowing then with people not offering goods and services in exchange for it, what good is it then? If I want gold as an investment I pick up the phone and have some bars shipped over from Indonesia or go to a gold trader - who will charge me the daily London, New York or Tokyo fix without surcharge, by the way. Frank, I agree that completely free negates the costs, but I suggested that the currency operators should team up to offer the service. While thy may have costs to store the physical gold, they have none to exchange it. I have also used open2exchange for the first time yesterday, but the problem with that is that I do not only pay 2% but also spend a few minutes doing the exchange. The scenario I based my post on is the one active merchants are in. We have dual accounting in two offices, consolidate the books daily and move funds around between accounts once or twice a month. The last thing we are looking for is to start exchanging $4.00 of GoldMoney and $12.95 of Pecunix and $2.99 of e-bullion into e-gold everyday. Having 16 active bank and DGC accounts is consuming more than enough time. Hence my suggestion that the currency operators should give merchants a way to have it done automatically - on their own sites, right away when a client makes a spend. Of course, e-gold and everyone else charges a spend fee, which is fine. So me saying that I want to receive $11 of e-gold when my client spends $11 of pecunix is inaccurate of course. What I meant was the automatic exchanging bit at no surcharge or additional deduction. I am aware of the fact that all currency operators would take my suggestion personal. It is after all as if I had said that their kid was ugly, as it were. But I really don't mean it that way. I sincerely think that my suggestion is showing the way to more and more people accepting and using all types of DGC. While the free-market advocates embrace each new IG currency as more competition, good for consumers, I think that we are dividing our strength rather than making a concentrated effort. In other words, rather than doing our best to have more people use IG in general, each operator wants them use his currency in particular. Why did the world economy first begin to base international trade on the US dollar? Because it makes economic sense and made things easy. Why is everyone right now thinking "but the common denominator of IG is gold"? Because it is. Why then doesn't it work the same way the dollar does? Because most merchants quote in dollars, not in grams, because that is what their customers expect from them. In essence I am suggesting to measure other currencies in terms of e-gold. But, because some IG have lower spend and lower storage fees, customers would actually migrate from e-gold to the cheaper cu
[e-gold-list] Re: GolNow or should we say GoldNEVER ServiceComplaint
> No, Robert is not always right. Don't I know this better than most ;o) But I do keep trying. > For a entity with over 2 customers it should be no problem to manage its DGC > stock the right way. If an entitiy has over 20,000 customers, then these customers seem to prefer dealing with that entity despite the occasional short comings. > If GoldNow would provide instant service there would be no risk or CHANCE of price > fluctuations. I was not aware that GoldNow controlled the international gold market through the speed of their transactions - or occasional lack thereof. Dare tell and enlighten us. > Don't you reply to the e-mails of your customers?...I say good night. We have some of the shortest response times in the industry, which is why nobody gives it a second thought if they don't hear back from us. They then usually think that we might have not received their email and simply resend it. Of course, if a client mails in ten minute intervalls, our system locks him out for 6 hours after the third attempt, which makes customer support more workable. > "Measly percents"? Maybe you don't get it. Why are there so many > exchangers?...because of those measly percents? > With their exchange business they attract customers to sell them higher priced > products (debit cards,...) later. Yes, the revenue generated is not worth the effort required by some clients. We facilitate exchangers and hence have a bit of an inside track on things. Most exchangers are one or two man outfits, many of which source their DGC from the same one or two larger exchangers, which keeps things within a manageable frame. The 'measly percents' are what these smaller outfits are doing it for. That and the hope to hold gold in various IGs and sell it at a higher price as the market moves in their favour. Only a few actually sell their own cards - usually the largest ones - most others are simply reselling those for another few measly percents. Exchangers are viable on a very small scale and also on a very large one, but they are a loosing proposition in between. Which is why so many exchangers are tempted to try their hand at issuing their own IG currency once they reach a certain size - which is why there is so many of IGs - which is why nobody uses them. > > "Cheers, > Robert. > > budget & privacy website hosting > http://www.cyberica.net"; > Thanks for leaving name and plug, saves me from pasting it again :o) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: trusting e-gold (was Re: Finding serious e-gold investors...)
Hello Danny > > 1) Option to have email notification whenever somebody logs in to my account > and whenever a transaction is done. > You do have a point there. Of course, there is the issue about privacy. Emails are not exactly secure and I can think of several reasons why someone wouldn't want an email sent out each time. On the other hand there could be a PGP option. That would then require that people have PGP installed and it would make things more complicated for normal consumers. Someone said that Pecunix's weakness is the difficulty to set up an account, or somesuch and I have to say that our inhouse kid genius tech improvisario had to look three times at the instructions and then shook his head and said that (L)users will never take to it - his words. It appears to be the old story were people give up saftety for perceived comfort. And I think if e-gold was more sophisticated and more difficult to use, people would look for easier alternatives. Remember, the majority of the herd is stricty ignorant and often violently argue their right to ignorance ;o) > > 2) Option to set an automatic 'payment delay' on all payments attempted from > an account. > Actually, you'd be on very thin ice with delaying payments. I think most merchants would be up in arms and vote with their feet. I know that we would. We accept e-gold payments because the market wants us to - and because I personally believe that it is a great thing and the natural way of free-market development. But if that belief, as many others I hold dear, would give me economic disadvantages, then i would not let it influence my business decissions. Meaning, if people can change their minds within 24 hours, most of the commercial activity outside mere exchangers would come to a grinding halt - for 24 hours. TGC would not let you wager gold until 24 hours later, we wouldn't register domain names until 24 hours after we received the order, proxy shops wouldn't pass orders on for a day... Like so often, when something works - and 1,000,000 accounts say it does - it is best to leave it alone - or to add optional prime services, but not force changes. When it comes to keeping larger amounts in an e-gold acount, well, why not use 1MDC.com ? After all, there is a delay in bailing e-gold out of 1MDC and that means means between 1MDC and e-gold you actually can have it both ways. You said that people are not willing to trust e-gold as an investment, which I wholeheartedly agree with. But my reason for agreeing is different than yours is likely to be. e-gold is not a good investment because I loose gold, the longer I hold it. I know, the amounts I loose are minute. but at 1MDC i win minute amounts rather than loosing them. Many Asians are likely to think the same way. Of course, most people have no idea about 1MDC. Maybe they should start an affiliate program, or advertise more ;o) To sum up, you think that people are concerned about security, but I don't think that that holds true for Asians once they started using the system. For them it's often the only way to conduct transactions online. And these are the same people who empty the cash register in their shop four times a day and put the money into their pocket. Some of these people were writing down the serial numbers of bank notes they deposited into their bank account to make sure that the bank gave them back 'their' money, as recently as 25 years ago (Provincial Indonesia). I am not trying to make fun of anyone or sound patronizing, but for all their mercantile savvy, non-urban Asians think differently. But the do have money and they will trade online - if things are kept straight forward. Just for the record, these are the same people who get a decent size credit limit on their plastic and then proceed to prepay the expenses of the next three months. Cheers, Robert. budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: goldfingercoin.com
Plus the de facto currencies that are often e-gold based, such as Gold-Price.net, virtualgold.net, even freetraders.org in a way. I think most exchangers start at one point or another to toy with the idea of becoming the 'better e-gold'. Cheers, Robert. PS - Sometimes there is method to my madness :o) budget & privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
