Re: [Elecraft] disconnecting antennas

[AJSOENKE]

Some of the e-mails in this thread exhibit some disregard for the fact that  
the shield side of a coax cable feedline is as much a part of the antenna as 
the  center conductor. Simply disconnecting the coax from the rig doesn't 
necessarily  prevent it from drawing hundreds of amps of Megavolt electricity 
from 
following  that shield to a convenient ground nearby. If for instance you 
disconnect a  diple with RG-8 feedline and simply drop the PL-259 on the lawn. 
you'll most  likely save the rig but not necessarily the lawn. or anything 
attached to the  antenna. Likewise, unplugging a feed line at the back of the 
rig 
and dropping  the cable on the floor may be too close to the nearest outlet or 
a 
lamp cord to  prevent an arc-over to  the rest of the system.
Nothings going to stop  lighting that just traversed several thousand feet of 
atmosphere from "ignoring"  1/2 an inch of carpet, etc.  Most of us have been 
very lucky.  My  first experience with lightning discharge was listening to 
my Viking Ranger  during a particularly windy night in Golden Colorado as the 
static buildup  jumped from the plate to the cathode of the 6146B tube. I did a 
hasty removal of  the ant feedline and spent the rest of the night wondering 
where the static was  going at that time.

Last interesting experience was with what I believe  is called dry lightning 
- no clouds around for miles.  Atop Diablo Peak on  Santa Cruz Island 24 years 
ago this week, I was setting up for the annual UHF  contest. First job was to 
assemble antennas. The previous night we (the  assembled contest team) 
observed a rather impressive lightning display from a  storm near San Diego, 
about 
200 miles away. That morning about 8 am it was clear  and gentle breeze with 
evidence of T C activity about 80 miles to the North East  of us over the San 
Gabriel Mountains.  As we assembled the antennas, mainly  sliding 1/8" Alum 
welding rods through various boom  holes, we suddenly  noticed a melodic 
humming 
like a multitude of tuning forks vibrating around us.  The next thing we knew 
as we hastily dropped what we were doing was all the  vegetation, mainly a fine 
grass that grows about 10 " tall and all very dry this  time of year, was 
standing on end as if reaching for the sky and shaking  violently with a very 
noisy crackling sound..Note, this is not a golf course  turf, but a rocky 
mountain top of the coast of So Cal. We were moving very fast  to get off the 
top and 
down the cliff side about 1000 ft to the west, where  there is a small cave 
carved in the cliff side. No sooner had we cramped  ourselves into this minor 
cavity than a slight warm breeze came up and an  instant later we heard a 
tremendous crack-bang that we knew was a lightning  strike. We didn't know 
where it 
struck and we decided to keep our heads down for  about 1/2 hour before 
peeking out and over the edge of the embankment.   When we emerged and hiked 
back 
up the hill, it was just another pleasant clear  day to behold. We never could 
figure where the strike took place and there were  several 50 + ft towers up 
there. None of our gear was disturbed or anything else  we could see including 
our 220 / 6 M repeater system.  Never got over the  nervous feeling of 
lighting from a clear sky.  Later that afternoon Thunder  storms ravaged many 
stations while we were in contact with them. Wayne N6NB was  Mobile on Mt Pinos 
and 
rode out the core of one TC. Pt Mugu NAS 30 Mi to th NE  of us had a record 
rainfall that flooded the base with 3 ft deep runoff.   And we remained dry 
through it all. It's an annual thing to have the Monsoon  flow to the SE of 
here 
but about once every 10 years it sweeps through with very  unpredictable 
conditions.
 
73 all   - Al WA6VNN



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[Elecraft] Elecraft and Solder

[Bob DeHaney]

On the other hand if they did provide solder, they could tell you that if
you have used so much, or run out of solder at this stage of the kit, you
have been using too much. 

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Vy 73, Bod DJ0MBC/WU5T (Waiting impatiently for his used K2 to arrive from
Switzerland).



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[QRP-L] Re: [GQRP] Project Knobs

[Clive Hollins]

Just to add a bit to John's mailing,  I use perspex sheet to make dials 
attached to a regular knob by scribing out a circle slightly larger than you 
need.  I then roughly saw it into a hehagonal shape to get rid of most of 
the pointy bits. A deep score line fron the centre to the edge allows you to 
fil it with wax coluring of your choosing after finishing. Then run a 1/4" 
drill through the middle and bolt it up tight to a 1/4" bolt. This act as 
the spindle for a drill chuck that is clamped on my bench.  A medium file 
held carefully over the edge of the perspex that is spinning away from you 
will take the edge down to a smooth but translucent  edge.  A bit of Brasso 
or jewellers rouge on a rag wrapped around the file will polish it to a 
transparent finish and you can of course round off the edges to make it 
smooth..  Finally set it on a shaft and araldite the disk to the knob (score 
lline towards the panel).


- Original Message - 
From: "John E. Beech" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Hi Andy,
First off, does the whole knob need to be 2 " diam.? ie.
would a disc attached to an "ordinary size knob do the trick?
Failing that, you can make perfectly servicable knobs from the smaller
size coffee jar lids. Cannabalize a small knob for the brass insert to
fit the shaft. Centre this accurately in the lid and glue into place
with araldite. You can fill the remaining space with David's Isopon
paste ( cheaper than araldite ). This will add weight for a VFO dial. If
you don't have the brass fiitings and your shafts have flats on them you
can caste the paste around a greased sfhaft & then cross drill to take a
pinch bolt. Threads can be cut in isopon if you are careful.
 The hardest job will be finding the centre of the lid -- you
need to carefully apply some basic geometry. If you don't like the brown
colour, be careful with the paint you apply as most of these lids are
moulded from a polystyrene based polymer, which dissolves in most
organic solvents.
 That's assuming you don't have access to a lathe. If you do
just turn siome pieces of wood etc and paint them!

de John G8SEQ.

Andy - GM0NWI wrote:


Hello to everyone in the group from "Bonnie Scotland"..

I am currently tryin' to source some 2 inch - 2 1/4 inch diameter knobs 
for

a project that will be gettin' undertaken in
The near future..


Has anyone in the past home-brewed this size and diameter of knob for a 
past

project..?  If so, care to share how you
Did it..?






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[Elecraft] K1 deaf and dumb ?

[Allan Glasdam]

To anybody, who can give me a hint, where to start

K1 # 2300 is alive, but not kicking. I did the DC voltage test with 
these results off schedule:


FP-U1 pin 13 should be 2,3 measured to 1,1 volt
FP-U5 pin 3   3,0 2,8

RF-U46,67,0
13,6   14,5
  6,8 7,2
The receiver should be much better, reading all the correspondance on 
the list

I can hear strong signals, so if anyone can help me

Allan  5Q8A, Denmark



 
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[Elecraft] Re: Inquiring minds want to know...

[J F]

Ahhh, so then you'll be off to New Zealand then hihi!

Cheerios,
Julius
n2wn

--- wayne burdick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:59 AM, J F wrote:
> 
> >
> > What happens to Elecraft when Wayne and Eric
> retire to
> > that dreamed of enchanted Pacific Island?
> 
> Not likely anytime in the next 20 years, but our
> chosen island would 
> still have a lab, high-speed internet, a Radio
> Shack, and a FedEx store 
>   :)
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com
> 
> 

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[Elecraft] Solder in a tube

[J F]

Marty,

Several places have solder in a tube ala:
http://www.amazon.com/Kester-Electronic-Solder-040-Tube/dp/B0002BSP2C

I'm sure Mouser has this as well...

AmQRP is the only group I've dealt with that included
solder in a kit. It was nice, much finer than what I
have on hand and intended for SMT stuff.

Many of the bigger hamfests have soldering vendors who
will have this with them as well.

Cheers,
Julius
n2wn
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[Elecraft] Project Knobs

[Detrick Merz]

Andy,

I had luck making a plastic knob from scratch a while back.  I needed
a knob for a little Dremel jig I built for creating Manhattan style
PCB pads.  I think my knob was about 2" in diamater.

Basic supplies:
- Polyester plastic casting resin
- Hardener (for resin)
- Mold

The casting resin and hardener can be had at local crafts stores
around here.  I presume it wouldn't be hard to find across the pond
either.  For molds, I have had good luck with Polyethylene (HDPE /
LDPE) and Polypropylene (PP), without using a mold release agent.
That being said, I also cut the mold off, so they end up being one
time use for me.  Mold release (available according to the resin
manufacturer), or a better shaped mold (nice draft angles) might let
you reuse molds.

For my knob, I used an empty plastic single serving fruit cup.  I
wanted a threaded rod coming out of the back of it, so after pouring
the resin in the mold, I gently set a bolt into the puddle of liquid
plastic.  24 hours later, and the bolt is a permanent part of the
knob.  It's not exactly perpendicular to the knob face, but only a few
degrees off, and unimportant for what I needed.  A little work and you
could find a way to embed one and make it square.

Once my knob was done, I faced the back a little bit by chucking the
bolt end into my little drill press.  A little work holding a file
against the back edge, and I shaped it to my liking (flattened it out
a bit, and smoothed over the "corner").

Link to the casting resin manufacturer's site (surely there are
others, but this is the brand I used):
 scroll down a little bit

Picture of the style of fruit cups I used for a mold:


If you go this route, and have more questions, feel free to send me
some mail directly.  I skim this list in digest, so I might miss a
reply sent there.

-detrick
KI4STU

On 7/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:42:32 +0100
> From: "Andy - GM0NWI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Project Knobs
> To: "'Elecraft Discussion List'" ,"'Flying
> Pigs'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Hello to everyone in the group from "Bonnie Scotland"..
>
> I am currently tryin' to source some 2 inch - 2 1/4 inch diameter knobs for
> a project that will be gettin' undertaken in
> The near future..
>
> I am in need of 3 sets of 3 (9 knobs in total) "I think".. although this may
> not be case as I progress
> But better I think to "plan ahead"..
>
> Can anyone on the list give any details of a supplier, ..or possibly some
> ideas from a what type of older
> Radio's in the past might have had this sort of diameter of knobs
> included..?
>
> Think "VFO -Tuning Dial" sort of diameter.. and you'de near a ball-part
> figure/size..
>
> Has anyone in the past home-brewed this size and diameter of knob for a past
> project..?  If so, care to share how you
> Did it..?
>
> I've looked around the internet are lots of places, and there just does'nt
> seem to be anyone out there who stocks
> This sort of thing, both here in the UK and the US and further afield..
>
> Really would appreciate help or ideas on this one folks..
>
> TIA..
>
> 72's 73's[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Andy
> GM0NWI
>
> Elecraft K2 "Fully Loaded" QRP S/n 01432
> Elecraft K2 "Fully Loaded" QRO S/n 05469
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Re: [Elecraft] resellers sales of Elecraft rigs.

[Bill NY9H]

resellers/distributors provide a function of local inventory.( or are 
supposed to)



in this day and age.
with the internet, and our friends at FedX & UPSit's tough for 
the brick & mortar sellers to add value. I'd guess 15%-20% margin 
plus another 3- ? % in promotional funding. That would require 
increasing the price of the product, as I don't think the additional 
volumes contributed by the resellers would be in excess of what 
ELECRAFT would do themselves. Why would they hinder their own margins ???


Since the guys already have an existing "distribution system" to ask 
resellers to add-value is a tough assignment. What would they add ?? 
local demo ???


K3 clock tick-tick

bill


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[Elecraft] Solder (in a tube) Dispenser

[Neal Enault]

I agree that solder in a tube is convenient, but it limits your choice of 
solder types and is not too economical.
   
  For some time, I have used a fly-tying bobbin as a solder dispenser.  If you 
don't know what that is, go to a fly-fishing shop or a well-equipped sporting 
goods store.  Be sure to check the I.D. of the tip to be sure it will handle 
the solder you are using.
   
  Neal WA6OCP
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Re: [Elecraft] Anderson PowePole connectors

[Jim Brown]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:37:38 -0700, wayne burdick wrote:

>We chose APP connectors for several reasons, and don't regret it 
>in the slightest

I strongly agree. I converted ALL of my ham gear to Power Pole soon 
after buying my first K2. I've subsequently converted all of my other 
personal equipment that runs on 12VDC in one form or another. Makes 
life a lot easier. 

I have seen documentation of inferior "knock-off" connectors made by 
mfrs other than Anderson. Problems include unsatisfactory mating. 

One other important point. Twisted pair is well known for rejecting 
RFI, yet power cords for ham gear have traditionally used parallel 
conductors. The same is true for loudspeaker cables. That's two more 
standards worth changing. 

73,

Jim Brown K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Project Knobs

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

In 1998 when living in Luxembourg I bought some 50mm diameter knobs from RS 
Components in the UK. Their stock number was 170-632. They also had the same 
type of knob, which RS Components described as a Handwheel, with diameters 
of 40mm and 60mm. The rim is knurled and there is a revolving handle useful 
for "fast tuning", I use one on a VHF monitoring receiver and find the knob 
comfortable to use. Might be worthwhile to take a look at RS Components to 
see if they still sell them.


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


Andy - GM0NWI  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello to everyone in the group from "Bonnie Scotland"..

I am currently tryin' to source some 2 inch - 2 1/4 inch diameter knobs 
for

a project that will be gettin' undertaken in
The near future..

I am in need of 3 sets of 3 (9 knobs in total) "I think".. although this 
may

not be case as I progress
But better I think to "plan ahead"..

Can anyone on the list give any details of a supplier, ..or possibly some
ideas from a what type of older
Radio's in the past might have had this sort of diameter of knobs
included..?

Think "VFO -Tuning Dial" sort of diameter.. and you'de near a ball-part
figure/size..


 



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[Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Jeremiah McCarthy]

I don't think Elecraft should supply solder...It might be a nice gesture, but 
with the escalating price of solder due to RoHS, I think it would place an 
unnecessary economic and RoHS compliance burden on Elecraft which could impact 
the price of kits...If the builder is "green", he has the choice of buying 
lead-free solder, or not...Elecraft would have to chose between lead-tin or 
lead-free solder, and that in itself would be a problem for some 
folks...Personally I hate working with lead-free, it is a real pain if you have 
to do rework...

Heathkit did provide solder...I have one of their TV dot generators that once 
belonged to my Dad and solder is listed in the bill of materials...I still have 
an unused roll of Heathkit solder and that is the only reason I am sure, 
otherwise I don't think I would have remembered either...It is a on small, red, 
metal spool with Heathkit's logo...The solder was made by Ersin, was multi 
core, and looks like it is about .030"...As I remember, they supplied a small 
amount on a spool for small projects like test instruments, and for big kits 
like their color TV's there were several full rolls...

Jerry, wa2dkg
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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[AJSOENKE]

I taught classes using heathkit resources for many years until 1999 when  
they gave it up. In the end they still shipped some kits as part of their  
educational effort and I had my students building hundreds of their kits. They  
were 
by far the best choice  for education. After taking a break from the  
electronics curiculum for about 6 years to focus on computers and networks, I  
have 
now made plans to start teaching electronics technology in addition to the  
computer courses this fall. I have found many new ways to provide the students  
with the experience of building and will be using amateur radio as a  platform  
to generate interest and motivation. Among  means I will use  is the ARRL 
education program and a multitude of Amateur Resources including the  PIC-EL 
project and a number of QRP projects. The courses are intended to be a  
technology 
program which will include automation and robotics, alternative  energy 
(solar mainl) introduction to aerospace electronics, wireless  communications 
and a 
list of many other things. I will miss the ready  availability of the well 
designed and documented Heath products and will use  what Elecraft I can afford 
because I know there will be some real learning going  on.
 
I still have many of the helpful tools, magnifiers, small coils of solder  
and of course the manuals. Too bad I don't have the PCB artwork.
 
73 es good luck to all Al WA6VNN
 



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Re: [Elecraft] Problem setting AGV Threshhold

[Matthew Denson]

Hi All,

Thanks for the pointer Don.

I looked last night and found (blush) that I was checking the voltage at the 
wrong pin.  I'm glad I took a step back and came at it fresh without pulling my 
hair out. Fortunately that is a trait I've learned from programming as a job.

So, when measuring the right pin, the max voltage I can get is 3.77v.  The 
voltage at the 8v regulator output is 7.79v and at the regulator input has been 
in the range of 12.9-13.3v depending on the battery's charge.  I may be within 
the range of error for my DMM, but I don't know.  

Is the voltage out of the regulator within the expected tolerance?
Is it a problem that I have maxed out the trimmer pot to get 3.7v or is that 
expected?

Thanks for your help.

73, Matthew

- Original Message 
From: Don Wilhelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Matthew Denson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:07:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Problem setting AGV Threshhold

Matthew,

You reading of the schematic is correct - the voltage at U2 pin 5 is the 
result of a voltage divider network - nothing less, nothing more.  If 
you have a problem here, one or more of the resistors involved is wrong, 
or the voltage from the 8 volt regulator is not correct.

The RF Gain control is one of those resistors, so be certain it is set 
to the full clockwise position.

73,
Don W3FPR

Matthew Denson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am building my K2 and have reached the initial checkout steps before 
> building the receiver.
> 
> On page 48 of my manual (Rev G if that matters) the instructions say to 
> "Adjust R1 for a reading of 3.80"
> 
> On my K2 the way it is right now the range of voltages I get by changing R1 
> is 2.1-3.28Vdc.  Hmmm?
> 
> I looked at the schematic on the way to work today (I'm still there) and it 
> doesn't look like there are that many variables here.  It is a simple voltage 
> divider of the 8v regulated voltage to ground as far as I can see and it 
> seems like the max voltage should be 1/2 of 8V when R1 is completely shorted 
> out.  I haven't checked the 8V source cause I haven't been back home.  
> 
> Maybe extra useless info - I don't know how the internal volt meter works but 
> it is reading out correctly (that is I get the same reading as my DMM where I 
> have made identical measurements) so I assume that the 5V regulator is 
> working right.
> 
> Any thoughts on which points to check?  Is my reading of the schematic too 
> simplistic?
> 





  

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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Stuart Rohre]

In my Heathkit time, they did not provide the solder, (1957).  First I tried 
Kester rosin core.  But later, I bought Ersin Multicore, (today Multicore 
Solders), upon the suggestion of some experienced ham, and it was the most 
superior solder I had used.  I used Kester, but did not get the quality of 
wetting that Multicore still gives me 49 years later!


-Stuart
K5KVH 



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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Jim Brown]

Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but this takes the 
cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a magnifier, and a 
soldering iron! 

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Guys - As per the list guidelines, please do make personal attacks 
against others on the list. Its inappropriate and unnecessary. Let's 
keep it cordial. :-)


73,
Eric  WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator


Jim Brown wrote:
Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but this takes the 
cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a magnifier, and a 
soldering iron! 


73,

Jim Brown K9YC
  

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[Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Jim Miller]

My remote tuner bit the dust again and I'm going to actually use the K2 
tuner for a while.

My setup is a dipole about 88ft long at about 50ft off the ground.

It's fed with a nominal 450ohm window line (thewireman) and it will take 
about 75ft of this to reach my back porch where I will temporarily 
operate...mosquitos permitting...

My question is do any of you find a balun necessary in such a situation or 
do you just go with a BNC to banana jack adapter?

If you find a balun helpful which do you use: 4:1 or 9:1?

73

jim ab3cv 

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RE: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Brett gazdzinski]

>From monitoring the mail here, it would seem like
a lot (most?) of the problems with the kits are solder
related. I had no problems with anything I have built, 
despite very fast build times, and I would guess that
is because I have had LOTS of soldering practice.
(solder all day long for years and you cant help
but get good at it?)

The correct solder helps a lot, as does a good 
adjustable temp soldering iron.

Elecraft could eliminate one variable by including
solder, or offering it along with the kits.

Maybe they SHOULD offer tools and solder, after all,
you can already customize the options a lot!

Brett
N2DTS




> Jim Brown wrote:
> > Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but this takes the 
> > cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a magnifier, and a 
> > soldering iron! 
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jim Brown K9YC
> >   
>

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[QRP-L] Re: [GQRP] Project Knobs

[John E. Beech]

Hi Andy,
  First off, does the whole knob need to be 2 " diam.? ie. 
would a disc attached to an "ordinary size knob do the trick?
Failing that, you can make perfectly servicable knobs from the smaller 
size coffee jar lids. Cannabalize a small knob for the brass insert to 
fit the shaft. Centre this accurately in the lid and glue into place 
with araldite. You can fill the remaining space with David's Isopon 
paste ( cheaper than araldite ). This will add weight for a VFO dial. If 
you don't have the brass fiitings and your shafts have flats on them you 
can caste the paste around a greased sfhaft & then cross drill to take a 
pinch bolt. Threads can be cut in isopon if you are careful.
 The hardest job will be finding the centre of the lid -- you 
need to carefully apply some basic geometry. If you don't like the brown 
colour, be careful with the paint you apply as most of these lids are 
moulded from a polystyrene based polymer, which dissolves in most 
organic solvents.
 That's assuming you don't have access to a lathe. If you do 
just turn siome pieces of wood etc and paint them!


de John G8SEQ.

Andy - GM0NWI wrote:


Hello to everyone in the group from "Bonnie Scotland"..

I am currently tryin' to source some 2 inch - 2 1/4 inch diameter knobs for
a project that will be gettin' undertaken in
The near future..


Has anyone in the past home-brewed this size and diameter of knob for a past
project..?  If so, care to share how you 
Did it..?
 



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RE: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Brett gazdzinski]

 I have a homebrew G5RV, with no balun.
That is sort of like what you are doing, just
with a 20 foot piece of coax between the feedline and rig.
It seems to work real well, at low power or high.

Not sure 88 feet of antenna and 75 feet of open wire
line is a good setup.
The antenna is to short for 80, to long for 40 meters,
and I don't know about the upper bands.
You will likely always have a high swr on it, which
most baluns don't like.

Good open wire line is almost lossless, even at high
swr's, but you might get a lot of loss in a balun.


I would not do the balun unless you have rf problems
at the rig.

Brett
N2DTS

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:07 PM
> To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?
> 
> My remote tuner bit the dust again and I'm going to actually 
> use the K2 
> tuner for a while.
> 
> My setup is a dipole about 88ft long at about 50ft off the ground.
> 
> It's fed with a nominal 450ohm window line (thewireman) and 
> it will take 
> about 75ft of this to reach my back porch where I will temporarily 
> operate...mosquitos permitting...
> 
> My question is do any of you find a balun necessary in such a 
> situation or 
> do you just go with a BNC to banana jack adapter?
> 
> If you find a balun helpful which do you use: 4:1 or 9:1?
> 
> 73
> 
> jim ab3cv 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Thom LaCosta]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, Jim Brown wrote:


Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but this takes the
cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a magnifier, and a
soldering iron!


And then, in order to offset the costs, Elecraft could ship the manual and a 
small selection of paint and brushes...and I'm sure that many of the die-hard 
kit builders would approve of a "paint by numbers" manual cover.



I suppose once that is done, all components could be shipped sans color stripes 
and we can paint on out own.



Thom,k3hrn, EIEIO
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Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Thom LaCosta]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, Thom LaCosta wrote:


On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, Jim Brown wrote:



And Jim Brown bounces messages sent to him wanting folks to confirm that they 
really sent them.


It's like calling CQ and when you hear an answer, telling the person to send 
you a QSL and then you'll answer.



Thom,EIEIO
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Fwd: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Marty Young]

Dear Mr. Brown:

> Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but
> this takes the cake! 

Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
contrary?  Many others did.

After ordering my first Elecraft kit and reading the
hoards of material on the importance of soldering, I
thought (I regret now publicly) why not just put
solder in the kit? (Like Heathkit used to do.)

You have to draw the line somewhere, I thought I made
a pretty cogent argument to draw the line just a
little further north to include solder.  Where did you
get the idea I wanted something for nothing?

Don't worry about responding to me on this list.  I'm
unsubscribing right after I post this.  (I'm sure the
moderator will kill it anyway)

Between this and the other responses to my (what I
feel was) inconsequential babbling about solder I will
exercise my right to turn this reflector's on/off knob
fully CCW.

If I have any problem with my kit, I'll call Elecraft
on the phone.  If I make a mistake, I'm sure they will
be more gracious.  Goodbye.

Marty Young / W4MY

--- Jim Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: "Jim Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Elecraft List" 
> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:29:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits
> 
> Is this guy serious?  I know hams are cheap, but
> this takes the 
> cake! Next he's gonna want dikes, needlenose, a
> magnifier, and a 
> soldering iron! 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Jim Brown K9YC
> 
> 
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> 



   

Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car 
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
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[Elecraft] Test again - Mozilla Thunderbird bounces.

[Don Wilhelm]

Just a test.  I was getting bounces simply because I was using a version 
of Mozilla Thunderbird that mailman.qth.net did not like because it is 
being used to generate spam.  Does not make any sense to me - it is like 
'killing the messenger', but if you are using Thunderbird 1.5.0.12, go 
to the Mozilla website and upgrade to version 2.0.0.5 or later.


73,
Don W3FPR
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

A 1:1 current balun (actually a choke) at the shack entry will work
wonders to keep RF out of the shack.  See L B Cebik's recommendation at
the end of his website article on multiband antennas
http://www.cebik.com/wire/abd.html - I believe that article will help
your understanding of why using a 4:1 balun or a 9:1 balun would not be
a wise choice.  Also take notice that the impedance seen at the tuner
has very little to do with the characteristic impedance of the feedline,
it can vary from quite high to quite low depending on the antenna feed
impedance at the frequency of operation and the length of the feedline
in wavelengths.

Jim Miller wrote:
My remote tuner bit the dust again and I'm going to actually use the K2 
tuner for a while.


My setup is a dipole about 88ft long at about 50ft off the ground.

It's fed with a nominal 450ohm window line (thewireman) and it will take 
about 75ft of this to reach my back porch where I will temporarily 
operate...mosquitos permitting...


My question is do any of you find a balun necessary in such a situation or 
do you just go with a BNC to banana jack adapter?


If you find a balun helpful which do you use: 4:1 or 9:1?


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RE: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Craig D. Smith]

I don't have exactly the same setup, Jim, but I can describe what has worked
for me.

I use a 44 ft doublet fed with open wire line (homebrew) for 40 thru 10.  I
bring the feedline down to my shack window and connect it to one of the
Elecraft switchable 4:1 and 1:1 baluns and then run a short (5 foot) piece
of RG-8X to the tuner/rig.  Have also on occasion used an 88 ft doublet when
I wanted to operate 80.  My feedline is much shorter than yours (30 feet or
so).  Haven't bothered to go through the modeling and transmission line
length transformation type stuff, but with the Elecraft K2 tuner and the
switchable balun I can find a match on all bands.  Some bands definitely
prefer one balun ratio over the other.  The impedance seen at your shack
will vary over a WIDE range as a function of feedline length and operating
frequency.  If you run into a situation that won't match, adding in a 5 ft
or so section of open wire line will no doubt fix things up.

73
  ... Craig   AC0DS




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Fw: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Jim Miller]

Don/Leigh

Thanks for the quick replies.

I'll try the K2/KAT2 nekkid for this Thursday's 20m fox hunt unless I can 
adapt one of my ferrite bead coax chokes by then. I normally use a remote 
tuner but it has died again, this time outside the warrantee period. I plan 
to return it to see what they say but I'm not optimistic.

I'm going to try using a T1 as my remote tuner in any case. As a first try 
I'll just connect my feedline from the antenna to a BNC-bindingpost adapter 
to see how it tunes. I can insert a BL2 which I've ordered set at 1:1. I'll 
also add a ferrite bead coax choke for good measure to reduce any common 
mode currents on the coax from the shack to the tuner. I'll probably try the
ferrite bead choke first.

73

jim ab3cv

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Re: Fwd: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Jim Brown]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:09:32 -0700 (PDT), Marty Young wrote:

>Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
>insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
>contrary?  Many others did.

OK, I will. I've been a ham for 




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Re: Fwd: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Jim Brown]

>Yes, I was serious.  If you disagree, rather than
>insult me, why not make an intelligent argument to the
>contrary?  Many others did.

OK, I will. This is not a personal attack, it is a 
statement of philosophy. Notice that I took names off this 
post and the previous one. 

 I've been a ham for 52 years. One of the first things I 
bought was a soldering iron and solder. In the years 
since, I don't think I've ever been without either. Yeah, 
I know ham radio has changed, and it isn't about building 
things, or wiring things, or fixing things, or testing 
things, or even understanding things. It's about buying 
radios, and convincing oneself that the radio one has 
purchased is the best, and don't bother me with logic. 
Heck, guys are even buying coax cables pre-made, and the 
cables that connect radios to computers are selling for 
$25 on EBay! 

I'm sorry if you or anyone else is offended, but to me, a 
ham without solder and soldering iron is indistinguishable 
from a CBer. Obviously, that thought doesn't apply to 
those who because of disability cannot solder. But one of 
my ham buddies when I was a kid was totally blind. That 
didn't prevent him from soldering, or from climbing on his 
roof. So that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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Re: Re: [Elecraft] Solder in Elecraft kits

[Ken Kopp]

Marty,

You're "cutting off your nose to spite your face",
so goes an old saying.

So someone was maybe less-than-kind in their reply.
Happens sometimes ... 


There's a HUGE resirvoir of information and folks eager
to help available for the asking on the reflector.  


Someone DID give a reasonable reply to your question.
With the new EU rules that apply to solder it would be
diffucult to sent the "correct" solder with each kit based
on where the kit was destined, to say nothing of the 
personal preferences we all have about solder types

and sizes.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I have used a doublet fed with open wire line most of my half century on the
air, and what Don says agrees with my experience. 

I have measured the current in each leg of the feed line with an unbalanced
tuner and no balun and found it very well balanced. The balance in the
currents seems to have a lot more to do with the load (antenna) than the
source. After all, the RF currents coming out of a BNC or other coax
connector are 180 degree out of phase, just like the output of the best
balun or balanced tuner. The only difference is that in a normal coax output
one side becomes coupled to the rig case without a contiguous coaxial shield
to prevent it. How much that affects the balance depends entirely on the
impedance of the feedline at that point, the size and capacitance of the rig
to ground and the impedance of any other ground paths present. Lots of
variables! 

As Don said, a choke (current) balun can do wonders if you have serious
unbalance or "RF" on the rig. It removes the common-mode (in phase) currents
flowing on the line without upsetting the RF 180 degrees out of phase moving
from the rig to the antenna. That effectively prevents the RF flowing up the
open wire line from flowing back along the outside of the rig. 

A doublet will work very well at lengths down to 1/4 wave overall, as long
as your tuner can match the impedance. So a 66 foot wire will do a very good
job on 80, or a 135 foot wire will do a very good job on 160. The difference
between such as "half sized" doublet and a full 1/2 wave long doublet is
about 1 dB or so, from what I've read. The issue on the lower frequencies
with a horizontal doublet is more a matter of antenna height than anything
else. Below 1/2 wavelength high, the low angle radiation starts to suffer
and by the time the antenna is 1/4 wavelength above the ground the main lobe
is straight up! It can have considerable gain at 0.15 to 0.25 wavelengths
high -- something on the order of 6 db gain -- but it's straight up. That's
excellent for NVIS (short skip) QSOs out to 500 miles or so, but lousy for
DX. 

On 20 meters, you'll have excellent low angle radiation as long as the wire
is 30 feet or so up. 

Of course, hanging the doublet as an inverted V or as a sloper will add some
vertical radiation to the mix that will help the low-angle field a bit. 

If you can't get a match and put a 1:1 balun in the system and the ATU
matches it, it's most likely because of losses in the balun! The balun
should report the same impedance to the tuner as the antenna did without it.
If the system matches with the balun but won't without it, the balun must be
injecting some impedance, and that impedance will be a loss impedance. 

If you try a 4:1 balun and get a match, that may be because of the impedance
transformation occurring in the balun, or it may be loss. It's hard to tell
unless you discover your balun core is noticeably warm. Large baluns
dissipate heat so well it's hard to tell. They aren't necessarily any more
efficient. They simply disguise the loss more effectively with a larger core
mass to absorb the heat produced by the losses. 

The bottom line is that transformer baluns get unpredictable under high SWR
conditions. One may work well under those conditions or it may not. There's
no easy way to tell. 

That's why I avoid baluns on an open wire line unless I really have to use
one, then I'll look to a current balun as Don recommended. If my tuner won't
provide a match on one or more bands, changing the antenna length or feeder
length is the best bet. It's a matter or cut and try, but it results in the
most efficient system under the conditions. 

Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:36 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Fw: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?


Don/Leigh

Thanks for the quick replies.

I'll try the K2/KAT2 nekkid for this Thursday's 20m fox hunt unless I can 
adapt one of my ferrite bead coax chokes by then. I normally use a remote 
tuner but it has died again, this time outside the warrantee period. I plan 
to return it to see what they say but I'm not optimistic.

I'm going to try using a T1 as my remote tuner in any case. As a first try 
I'll just connect my feedline from the antenna to a BNC-bindingpost adapter 
to see how it tunes. I can insert a BL2 which I've ordered set at 1:1. I'll 
also add a ferrite bead coax choke for good measure to reduce any common 
mode currents on the coax from the shack to the tuner. I'll probably try the
ferrite bead choke first.

73

jim ab3cv

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Tuner?

[Don Wilhelm]

Ron and all,

Thanks for 'singing my song'.  I have long advocated that the 
antenna/feedline system is influenced by the electrical position of the 
(electrical) ends of the antenna than any other factor.  No matter how 
you analyze an antenna, the current at the end of an antenna wire must 
be zero.  Think about it and you perhaps come to the realization that it 
is a fact and is more of an influence in determining antenna balance 
that any balun or other choking device.


Where a choke balun is important is in decoupling the *outside* of the 
coax braid from the current on the inside of the braid.  Even in coax, 
the current is balanced if you consider the current on the center 
conductor and the inside of the shield.  However, when the current on 
the inside of the shield reaches the end of the coax, it finds 2 
conductors - one is the antenna wire or one side of a parallel feedline, 
and the other is the outside of the coax shield.  The RF current will 
dutifully split onto both conductors if there is no means to prevent it. 
 So the result can be that RF is coupled back to the operating position 
on the outside of the coax shield.  That can unbalance the currents on 
the antenna or parallel feedline since the 'end' of that side of the 
antenna has changed into a complex form rather than a simple length of wire.


Think about it a while and you may come to the same conclusions.

73,
Don W3FPR


Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

snip...
I have measured the current in each leg of the feed line with an unbalanced
tuner and no balun and found it very well balanced. The balance in the
currents seems to have a lot more to do with the load (antenna) than the
source. 

snip ...
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