Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Edward R. Cole]

K2AV wrote:
"We just have 50 ohm coax and SWR meters on the brain, and have a terrible
time seeing outside the rather narrow 50 ohm coax/low SWR box.  And we're
boxing ourselves in further with single-Z transistor amps that fall off the
table and go blurg off 50 ohm Z.  (Whatever happened to
I-don't-give-a-d*mn-about-SWR tetrode amps, like 807's, 6146's and
4CX1000A?  I worked DXCC and had a BPL medallion before I ever had an SWR
meter.  Just can't understand how I managed.  :>)Oops, forgot, Alpha's
8410 monster uses a pair of those 4CX1000A's, and it really doesn't give a
d*mn about swr, either.)"
---
Yes, but those "nice ole tube amps" almost universally used pi-net 
outputs which are tuners in-fact.  Ferrites make wide-band 
transformation possible so solid-state no-tune amps are 
possible.  Transistor impedances are so low it makes it critical to 
load them properly.  But we seem to come full circle back to using tuners.

I bought a small mobile MFJ-945E tuner for my station due to being on 
a budget.  When I got the K3/10 it worked very nice with my array of 
18 antennas.  Later a friend was selling an old Drake QRO tuner so I 
bought it (MN2000) and it now tunes the output of my new 300w HF 
amp.  Too bad it does not have 160m.

It has two coax antenna outputs (direct or tuned) so I have one 
connected to a dummy load and the other to my 5-pos antenna switch 
(manual).  I will eventually run the output of the K3/10 thru the MFJ 
to a 4-pos coax switch to chose either 6m, 6m-eme, or HF (with a 
spare position unused).  The HF pos. goes to the 300w amp which has a 
bypass relay, so I can run QRP or with some power.

The Drake tuner works really nice and has a power meter to monitor 
the HF amp so I do not have to commit my Bird43 to that.  I sure like 
the big knobs for tuning and smooth operation of them.




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
==
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Re: [Elecraft] 12V ERR

[Stewart]

That answered the question I was about to ask. Thanks.

73
Stewart G3RXQ
On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:26:05 -0800, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> The internal contact points on the socket are actually gold. Just the
> external legs that solder into the pcb are tin.
>
> 73,
>
> Eric
> ---
> www.elecraft.com
>
>
> On 3/9/2012 4:37 PM, John wrote:
>> I just recieved the replacement parts for my K3.
>> Thank you ELECRAFT.
>> The two 6 pin "blocks" are gold plated but the
>> 20 pin "socket" and 26 pin "socket" are tin plated.
>> Are these the correct parts for repair?
>> John
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[David Gilbert]

Ham radio being a knowledge-based hobby, some people prefer to 
understand what they're doing.  Apparently others don't seem to care.

Dave   AB7E



On 3/9/2012 9:49 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote:
> So let me say one thing I know about antennas:
>
> PUT SOMETHING UP AND GET ON THE AIR.
>
> You can get perfect up, and you can get OK up. You an argue about what
> works better and what works worse. But when the bands are open, you
> might be able to work DX with a cantenna under your desk. (I've heard
> stories.)
>
> I used an untuned dipole with a LDG tuner to work my first (and only)
> DXCC back in the last sunspot cycle.
>
> So what I'm saying is put something up FIRST and then start the arguing,
> I mean, discussion.
>
> (But then again there are all sorts of aspects to the hobby and if you're
> here to argue you can if you want.)
>
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[David Gilbert]

A T-Network tuner with a large enough capacitor in one leg set to full 
capacity is essentially an L-network tuner.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 3/9/2012 9:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Mike and all,
>
> The T-Network tuners are problematic even though they can be quite
> wide-range - they may show multiple tuning condition for any given
> antenna/matching situation.  They should always be adjusted for the
> largest value of capacity that will tune properly.
>
> Most automatic tuners are of the L network type which avoids the
> ambiguous tuning spots of the T-network tuners.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/9/2012 10:22 PM, Mike WA8BXN wrote:
>> I'm not convinced that toroids are inferior to air wound coils. There will
>> be some core loss but there will be less ohmic loss as well. I'm also not
>> sure that just getting a tuner rated at the same power level as an amplifier
>> is always going to be most efficient. If the marketing agency is doing the
>> tuner rating the rating may be suspect.
>>
>> There are some tuners that can just about match anything for an antenna. If
>> it won't melt at a particular power level, is it the best tuner for that
>> power level? Matching a given load usually means giving the transmitter near
>> a 50 ohm load. If you have a tuner that does that with no antenna attached
>> it means the tuner must dissipate all the power.
>>
>> Manual tuners often have some hints on how to get the best efficiency at a
>> good match, like try to find a match using maximum or minimum value for
>> control X. With automatic tuners, we often just let the tuner do its thing
>> and use the match it finds. Some tuners will have better algorithms than
>> others in picking the best match. The difference from one tuner to another
>> can be a lot more than milliwatts. So it can be a good idea to get good
>> evaluations of available tuners.
>>
>> 73 - Mike WA8BXN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---Original Message---
>>
>> From: WILLIS COOKE
>> Date: 3/9/2012 9:47:31 PM
>> To: Elecraft
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner
>>
>> OK Guys, I have a Physics Degree too, but realistically, if the tuner uses
>> real coils and air capacitors like the Matchbox it is really efficient. If
>> it uses link coupling like we did in olden days it is probably a scotch
>> (technical term meaning a little bit) better than the more common T network.
>> If it uses toroids, small fixed capacitors and relay switching, it probably
>> has even more loss. So, maybe the answer is to buy a tuner that is the same
>> size as your amplifier. If you elect to run a KTA-500 you probably are not
>> terribly concerned whether you get 475 watts to the antenna or 450 watts. If
>> you need an Alpha 9500 to be sure that you get through then you need the
>> Alpha 4040 so it will look great near your 9500 and the 3 grand price will
>> seem cheap after paying 8 grand for the amp. You can always brag on your 75
>> meter net that of the 1499.9 watts out of the 9500 1499.8 watts get through
>> the 4040 to melt the RG8X that feeds your Buddy Pole.
>> But, if the KTA-500 is your thing then a tuner that costs more than your amp
>> and is the biggest thing in your shack (unless you have a left over BC-610)
>> will look pretty silly.
>>
>> If you must measure your temperatures to figure your efficiency down to the
>> milliwatt, be sure and use RTDs for measurement because thermocouples are
>> not nearly accurate enough for precision measurements.
>>
>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
>> K5EWJ&   Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>>
>> __
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>>
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Rick Prather]

Right on!

Rick
K6LE

On 3/9/2012, at 8:49 , Hisashi T Fujinaka  wrote:

> So let me say one thing I know about antennas:
> 
> PUT SOMETHING UP AND GET ON THE AIR.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Dumb Question of the Day

[WILLIS COOKE]

Tony, you can't do that unless you have the sub-receiver.  It is not VFO A and 
VFO B in the two headphones, but main receiver and sub receiver and you can use 
the VFOs as you choose.  You can also have different antennas on the two 
receivers for diversity receive.  The second receiver is a great thing if you 
can afford it.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Tony McClenny 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 6:27 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Dumb Question of the Day
 
All,

I apologize for asking this but simply cannot find it in the manual or
figure it out.

How does one transfer sound from VFO A in left ear and VFO B in right ear to
both ears (Heil Pro-Set)?  

I enjoy using one ear on each when using two VFO's, but would like to hear
same in both ears when using one (A) VFO and cannot reverse what I created.


Thank you in advance for your assistance.

- Tony, N3ME -

118 Ashwood Street
Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699
(302) 539-5638
Grid:  FM28lm
 http://www.n3me.net
Elecraft K3 # 2462

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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike and all,

The T-Network tuners are problematic even though they can be quite 
wide-range - they may show multiple tuning condition for any given 
antenna/matching situation.  They should always be adjusted for the 
largest value of capacity that will tune properly.

Most automatic tuners are of the L network type which avoids the 
ambiguous tuning spots of the T-network tuners.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 10:22 PM, Mike WA8BXN wrote:
>
> I'm not convinced that toroids are inferior to air wound coils. There will
> be some core loss but there will be less ohmic loss as well. I'm also not
> sure that just getting a tuner rated at the same power level as an amplifier
> is always going to be most efficient. If the marketing agency is doing the
> tuner rating the rating may be suspect.
>
> There are some tuners that can just about match anything for an antenna. If
> it won't melt at a particular power level, is it the best tuner for that
> power level? Matching a given load usually means giving the transmitter near
> a 50 ohm load. If you have a tuner that does that with no antenna attached
> it means the tuner must dissipate all the power.
>
> Manual tuners often have some hints on how to get the best efficiency at a
> good match, like try to find a match using maximum or minimum value for
> control X. With automatic tuners, we often just let the tuner do its thing
> and use the match it finds. Some tuners will have better algorithms than
> others in picking the best match. The difference from one tuner to another
> can be a lot more than milliwatts. So it can be a good idea to get good
> evaluations of available tuners.
>
> 73 - Mike WA8BXN
>
>
>
>
> ---Original Message---
>
> From: WILLIS COOKE
> Date: 3/9/2012 9:47:31 PM
> To: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner
>
> OK Guys, I have a Physics Degree too, but realistically, if the tuner uses
> real coils and air capacitors like the Matchbox it is really efficient. If
> it uses link coupling like we did in olden days it is probably a scotch
> (technical term meaning a little bit) better than the more common T network.
> If it uses toroids, small fixed capacitors and relay switching, it probably
> has even more loss. So, maybe the answer is to buy a tuner that is the same
> size as your amplifier. If you elect to run a KTA-500 you probably are not
> terribly concerned whether you get 475 watts to the antenna or 450 watts. If
> you need an Alpha 9500 to be sure that you get through then you need the
> Alpha 4040 so it will look great near your 9500 and the 3 grand price will
> seem cheap after paying 8 grand for the amp. You can always brag on your 75
> meter net that of the 1499.9 watts out of the 9500 1499.8 watts get through
> the 4040 to melt the RG8X that feeds your Buddy Pole.
> But, if the KTA-500 is your thing then a tuner that costs more than your amp
> and is the biggest thing in your shack (unless you have a left over BC-610)
> will look pretty silly.
>
> If you must measure your temperatures to figure your efficiency down to the
> milliwatt, be sure and use RTDs for measurement because thermocouples are
> not nearly accurate enough for precision measurements.
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ&  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

So let me say one thing I know about antennas:

PUT SOMETHING UP AND GET ON THE AIR.

You can get perfect up, and you can get OK up. You an argue about what
works better and what works worse. But when the bands are open, you
might be able to work DX with a cantenna under your desk. (I've heard
stories.)

I used an untuned dipole with a LDG tuner to work my first (and only)
DXCC back in the last sunspot cycle.

So what I'm saying is put something up FIRST and then start the arguing,
I mean, discussion.

(But then again there are all sorts of aspects to the hobby and if you're
here to argue you can if you want.)

-- 
Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
BSEE(6/86) + BSChem(3/95) + BAEnglish(8/95) + MSCS(8/03) + $2.50 = latte
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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Don Wilhelm]

Elecraft did provide a fuse and a circuit breaker.  There is a 
resettable fuse in the power line for the QPR K3 (also the K2), and a 
circuit breaker with the KPA3.  That means the K3 protects itself.

That also means that the K3 cannot provide safety protection for the 
power wiring nor the supply itself, so fuses at the power supply are 
prudent things to add - even if the power supply has overvoltage and 
overcurrent protection.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 11:18 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> My answers will be different from some you have seen.
> 1.  I would not use any fuses.  The RM35M has a current limiter circuit and a 
> line fuse to protect it.  The K3 has a circuit breaker to protect it. If you 
> are installing a transceiver in a car, you need a fuse in the positive to 
> protect against a wire short and you need a fuse in the negative to protect 
> you from a loose battery ground that routes your starter current through your 
> transceiver ground.
>
> 2.  The power cord should be at least #10 and as short as reasonable.  6 feet 
> is fine!  Much more than 10 feet and you might consider 2 #12 or #8.
>
> 3.  I would not use a fuse unless I was using a home made supply with no 
> limiter or a battery for power.  If Elecraft thought you needed a fuse they 
> would have given you one.
>   
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke
> K5EWJ&  Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>
>
> 
>   From: Lee Buller
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:37 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions
>
>
> I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.
>
> Questions.
>
> 1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and negative lead?  Or, 
> since I
> am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the positive lead? 
> Currently, I have both leads fused.
>
> 2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering that there will be 
> some
> power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is longer than shorter?  My
> current length is over 6 feet.
>
> 3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply? 
> Currently, mine are right at the power supply.
>
> The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I am getting somewhat 
> of a
> voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the voltage is at 13.8 but 
> goes
> to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22 amps.  So, I suspect
> something might a tad glitchy in the power cord.  Maybe I just need to 
> reinstall
> the Anderson Power Poles.
>
> Comments?
>
> Lee - K0WA
>
>
>
>
> In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you 
> don't
> have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
> any
> Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common
> Sense divine?
>
> Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind.
> -  John W. (Kansas)
>
> Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you.
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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[WILLIS COOKE]

My answers will be different from some you have seen.
1.  I would not use any fuses.  The RM35M has a current limiter circuit and a 
line fuse to protect it.  The K3 has a circuit breaker to protect it. If you 
are installing a transceiver in a car, you need a fuse in the positive to 
protect against a wire short and you need a fuse in the negative to protect you 
from a loose battery ground that routes your starter current through your 
transceiver ground.

2.  The power cord should be at least #10 and as short as reasonable.  6 feet 
is fine!  Much more than 10 feet and you might consider 2 #12 or #8.

3.  I would not use a fuse unless I was using a home made supply with no 
limiter or a battery for power.  If Elecraft thought you needed a fuse they 
would have given you one.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Lee Buller 
To: Elecraft Reflector  
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 8:37 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions
 

I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.

Questions.

1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and negative lead?  Or, since 
I 
am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the positive lead?  
Currently, I have both leads fused.

2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering that there will be some 
power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is longer than shorter?  My 
current length is over 6 feet.

3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply?  
Currently, mine are right at the power supply.

The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I am getting somewhat of 
a 
voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the voltage is at 13.8 but goes 
to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22 amps.  So, I suspect 
something might a tad glitchy in the power cord.  Maybe I just need to 
reinstall 
the Anderson Power Poles.

Comments?

Lee - K0WA




In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any 
Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common 
Sense divine?

Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. 
-  John W. (Kansas)

Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: G5RV's antenna

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

The feeder was exactly 1/4 wavelength long so it transformed the very high
impedance at the end of the radiator to a very low impedance at the rig in
the Zeppelin, minimizing "RF in the Shack" issues. 

Since the radiator was 1/2 wavelength long, very little current flowed from
the feeder into the radiator. It was a voltage "loop". That meant that,
although the other side of the feeder was terminated in an insulator, the
currents along the feed line were well balanced. Most radiomen of the time
considered that the leakage current into the insulator closely matched the
current into the radiator so the balance was very good indeed. 

The next step, coming back to Don's comment, was to connect two Zepps back
to back for some additional gain. Extending the radiators beyond 1/2
wavelength enhanced this effect and, since it was now a center fed antenna,
feedline imbalance was no longer a danger, hence the popularity of the
"extended double Zepp".

I am always careful to call my center fed wires a "doublet" to avoid
confusion but many Hams today incorrectly call any wire fed at the center
with open wire line a "Zepp". 

Feeding a traditional Zepp only minimizes feed line radiation when the
radiator is exactly 1/2 wavelength. (The feeder can be any length if you can
deal with the feed point impedance at the rig end.) However, many Hams have
reported excellent results with Zepps with not-1/2-wave long radiators. In
those cases the feed line is also part of the radiating antenna. That can be
good when the feeder is in the clear and less so if it's not. The same is
true of most off center fed antennas.

73,  

Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:34 PM
To: d...@w3fpr.com
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: G5RV's antenna

Yes Don, I knew when I used the term "classic Zepp" that I was taking a bit
of liberty with the term.  The original Zepp was indeed end-fed from the
cabin of a Zepplin.  I've often wondered how long the feeder actually was.
They may have been closer to a simple end-fed wire.

I'd also noted the concept repeated in the J-pole.

We "old ops" have certain advantages ...

73!  Ken

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I will agree with all until I got to the end of your post - "classic zepp"
> The original (and classic)  Zepp antenna was a 1/2 wave wire fed 
> through a 1/4 wave transmission line connected to the end that was 
> trailed behind lighter-than-air aircraft (Zepplin).  If you look at 
> the J-pole, and turn it horizontally, you will see exactly the same 
> thing - a 1/4 wave transmission line with one side connected to a 1/2
wavelength radiator.
>
> I am not sure how the "Zepp" term became associated with any kind of 
> center fed dipoles, but it has in ham circles, and I find it confusing 
> - there is the Center Fed Zepp (2 halfwaves in phase) antenna, and 
> then there is the Extended Center Fed Zepp (5/8 wavelength each side 
> of center), and then there is the "classic Zepp" that is the antenna 
> designed for trailing the aircraft.  So we must be careful to explain 
> which kind of Zepp antenna we are referring to when we write "Zepp"
> There is a lot of difference.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Fred Townsend]

Lee: Please see answers inline.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Buller
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 6:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions


I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.

Questions.

1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and negative lead?  Or,
since I am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the positive
lead?  
Currently, I have both leads fused.

There are arguments that support fusing the ground lead but I do not buy
them. The national electrical code says never to fuse a ground. While are
rigs are not covered by the NEC I still do not see a reason to fuse ground.

2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering that there will be
some power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is longer than
shorter?  My current length is over 6 feet.

Shorter is obviously better but the K3 will compensate for voltage drop. I
cut mine to fit with a little extra for service.

3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply?  
Currently, mine are right at the power supply.

Assuming some disaster will befall your cable, fuses should be at the power
supply. Having said that, I put mine where they are accessible and cool.
Cool because the ambient temperature will affect the current they blow at.

It is a good idea to put a clamp-on choke around the power leads. Again with
a good antenna system you don't need the choke but it help the RF out of the
shack when things are less than optimal. They are cheap and easy to install
so why not.

Fred, AE6QL.

The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I am getting somewhat
of a voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the voltage is at 13.8
but goes to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22 amps.  So,
I suspect something might a tad glitchy in the power cord.  Maybe I just
need to reinstall the Anderson Power Poles.

Comments?

Lee - K0WA




 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you
don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you
can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common
Sense.  Is Common Sense divine?

Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my
mind. 
-  John W. (Kansas)

Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you.
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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Eugene Balinski]

Lee, 


What size wire are you using ?   Should not be smaller than
#12. 

The length should be as short as comfortably possible.
  That means as short as possible with enough extra length
to dress the cable around the operation bench if/as needed,
and to be able to pull the radio out of its operation
position easily with out pulling the power cord out of the
radio either on purpose or by accident.   No need for any
more length. 

Also, Be sure that the connections at the power supply
terminals are solid.  I used to work summers at a power
supply house.  They made very high current regulated power
supplies for the military.  There were instances where the
customer would connect the test load to the PS with clip
leads, and when the voltage at the load was out of spec,
send it back.   

There was nothing wrong with the supply.  The clip leads
had too much resistance, and at the rated load, would drop
too much voltage because of the bad connection at the PS
terminals.   Be sure your connections to the PS are clean
and tight.

Fuses should be mounted close to the supply, just like they
are in your house.  In the event of a short, you want to
break the circuit before a fire starts. 

Present (currant?) thought says to fuse both leads.  Use
low loss auto blade type fuses.  Other fuse holders can
have a lot of resistance, and under load, drop the voltage.
  I have seen the cheap clip type de-solder a fuse cap !
 You can get the auto blade holders with red and black
leads at your local auto parts store to build your own, or
buy them from Quicksilver Radio
http://qsradio.com/index.htm  or Powewerx all made up. 

http://www.powerwerx.com/fuses-circuit-protection/atc-inline-fuse-holder-ring-terminals-10-gauge.html

73,

Gene K1NR




On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 18:37:44 -0800 (PST)
 Lee Buller  wrote:
> 
> I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.
> 
> Questions.
> 
> 1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and
> negative lead?  Or, since I 
> am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the
> positive lead?  
> Currently, I have both leads fused.
> 
> 2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering
> that there will be some 
> power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is
> longer than shorter?  My 
> current length is over 6 feet.
> 
> 3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the
> power supply?  
> Currently, mine are right at the power supply.
> 
> The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I
> am getting somewhat of a 
> voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the
> voltage is at 13.8 but goes 
> to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22
> amps.  So, I suspect 
> something might a tad glitchy in the power cord.  Maybe I
> just need to reinstall 
> the Anderson Power Poles.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Lee - K0WA
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in
> short supply.  If you don't 
> have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.
>  If you can't find any 
> Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some
> Common Sense.  Is Common 
> Sense divine?
> 
> Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing
> revealed truth in my mind. 
> -  John W. (Kansas)
> 
> Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: G5RV's antenna

[Ken G Kopp]

Yes Don, I knew when I used the term "classic Zepp" that I was taking
a bit of liberty with the term.  The original Zepp was indeed end-fed from
the cabin of a Zepplin.  I've often wondered how long the feeder actually
was.  They may have been closer to a simple end-fed wire.

I'd also noted the concept repeated in the J-pole.

We "old ops" have certain advantages ...

73!  Ken

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> Ken,
>
> I will agree with all until I got to the end of your post - "classic zepp"
> The original (and classic)  Zepp antenna was a 1/2 wave wire fed through
> a 1/4 wave transmission line connected to the end that was trailed
> behind lighter-than-air aircraft (Zepplin).  If you look at the J-pole,
> and turn it horizontally, you will see exactly the same thing - a 1/4
> wave transmission line with one side connected to a 1/2 wavelength radiator.
>
> I am not sure how the "Zepp" term became associated with any kind of
> center fed dipoles, but it has in ham circles, and I find it confusing -
> there is the Center Fed Zepp (2 halfwaves in phase) antenna, and then
> there is the Extended Center Fed Zepp (5/8 wavelength each side of
> center), and then there is the "classic Zepp" that is the antenna
> designed for trailing the aircraft.  So we must be careful to explain
> which kind of Zepp antenna we are referring to when we write "Zepp"
> There is a lot of difference.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/9/2012 9:53 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:
>> I have Varney's (G5RV) original article.  The antenna was designed
>> for -only- 20M .  Since then it's taken on the proverbial "life of it's
>> own" and become somewhat of a "cult" antenna, as is the case with
>> the "Carolina Windom".
>>
>> Why would one start with a perfectly good balanced-line fed Zepp,
>> cobble a piece of "special-length" coax onto the end of that balanced
>> line so that the antenna becomes something else, and then have to
>> use an antenna tuner to make the thing work?
>>
>> Since the antenna requires a tuner, why not connect the balanced line
>> to a balanced tuner ... or one with a balun ... and enjoy all the virtues
>> of a classic Zepp?
>>
>> 73!
>>
>> Ken Kopp - K0PP
>> elecraftcov...@gmail.com
>> __
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>>
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[Elecraft] RM amplifier

[a.yoshida]

Hello

Is there anyone who tried RM Italy amplifier, HLA 150 Plus or HLA 300 Plus ?
Please let me know your experience off list.

73
aki ja1nlx
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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Don Wilhelm]

I will differ with Fred - the fuse should be mounted close to the power 
supply - you are protecting the wire, and not the radio..  There could 
be a fault in the wire (actually more likely than a fault in the radio), 
and a fuse at the power supply end will trip - think about a fuse at the 
radio end and a short in the wire near the mid-point - the wire itself 
may act as the fuse unless the power supply shuts down due to 
overcurrent protection first.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 10:13 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 6:37 PM, Lee Buller wrote:
> 3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply?
> Currently, mine are right at the power supply.
> Doesn't really matter ... unless things in your configuration are going
> to move.  If things move, shorts can happen in many places.  You really
> want the short to happen "after" the fuse, so I'd put it as close to the
> power supply as possible, just on general principles.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: G5RV's antenna

[Don Wilhelm]

Ken,

I will agree with all until I got to the end of your post - "classic zepp"
The original (and classic)  Zepp antenna was a 1/2 wave wire fed through 
a 1/4 wave transmission line connected to the end that was trailed 
behind lighter-than-air aircraft (Zepplin).  If you look at the J-pole, 
and turn it horizontally, you will see exactly the same thing - a 1/4 
wave transmission line with one side connected to a 1/2 wavelength radiator.

I am not sure how the "Zepp" term became associated with any kind of 
center fed dipoles, but it has in ham circles, and I find it confusing - 
there is the Center Fed Zepp (2 halfwaves in phase) antenna, and then 
there is the Extended Center Fed Zepp (5/8 wavelength each side of 
center), and then there is the "classic Zepp" that is the antenna 
designed for trailing the aircraft.  So we must be careful to explain 
which kind of Zepp antenna we are referring to when we write "Zepp"  
There is a lot of difference.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 9:53 PM, Ken G Kopp wrote:
> I have Varney's (G5RV) original article.  The antenna was designed
> for -only- 20M .  Since then it's taken on the proverbial "life of it's
> own" and become somewhat of a "cult" antenna, as is the case with
> the "Carolina Windom".
>
> Why would one start with a perfectly good balanced-line fed Zepp,
> cobble a piece of "special-length" coax onto the end of that balanced
> line so that the antenna becomes something else, and then have to
> use an antenna tuner to make the thing work?
>
> Since the antenna requires a tuner, why not connect the balanced line
> to a balanced tuner ... or one with a balun ... and enjoy all the virtues
> of a classic Zepp?
>
> 73!
>
> Ken Kopp - K0PP
> elecraftcov...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Mike WA8BXN]

 
I'm not convinced that toroids are inferior to air wound coils. There will
be some core loss but there will be less ohmic loss as well. I'm also not
sure that just getting a tuner rated at the same power level as an amplifier
is always going to be most efficient. If the marketing agency is doing the
tuner rating the rating may be suspect. 
 
There are some tuners that can just about match anything for an antenna. If
it won't melt at a particular power level, is it the best tuner for that
power level? Matching a given load usually means giving the transmitter near
a 50 ohm load. If you have a tuner that does that with no antenna attached
it means the tuner must dissipate all the power. 
 
Manual tuners often have some hints on how to get the best efficiency at a
good match, like try to find a match using maximum or minimum value for
control X. With automatic tuners, we often just let the tuner do its thing
and use the match it finds. Some tuners will have better algorithms than
others in picking the best match. The difference from one tuner to another
can be a lot more than milliwatts. So it can be a good idea to get good
evaluations of available tuners. 
 
73 - Mike WA8BXN 
 
 
 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: WILLIS COOKE 
Date: 3/9/2012 9:47:31 PM 
To: Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner 
 
OK Guys, I have a Physics Degree too, but realistically, if the tuner uses
real coils and air capacitors like the Matchbox it is really efficient. If
it uses link coupling like we did in olden days it is probably a scotch
(technical term meaning a little bit) better than the more common T network.
If it uses toroids, small fixed capacitors and relay switching, it probably
has even more loss. So, maybe the answer is to buy a tuner that is the same
size as your amplifier. If you elect to run a KTA-500 you probably are not
terribly concerned whether you get 475 watts to the antenna or 450 watts. If
you need an Alpha 9500 to be sure that you get through then you need the
Alpha 4040 so it will look great near your 9500 and the 3 grand price will
seem cheap after paying 8 grand for the amp. You can always brag on your 75
meter net that of the 1499.9 watts out of the 9500 1499.8 watts get through
the 4040 to melt the RG8X that feeds your Buddy Pole. 
But, if the KTA-500 is your thing then a tuner that costs more than your amp
and is the biggest thing in your shack (unless you have a left over BC-610)
will look pretty silly. 
 
If you must measure your temperatures to figure your efficiency down to the
milliwatt, be sure and use RTDs for measurement because thermocouples are
not nearly accurate enough for precision measurements. 
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Fred Jensen]

On 3/9/2012 6:37 PM, Lee Buller wrote:
>
> I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.
>
> Questions.
>
> 1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and negative lead?  Or, 
> since I
> am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the positive lead?
> Currently, I have both leads fused.

Physics and EE challenged student here -- one fuse, in the positive lead 
if you never -- ever -- take your K3 into a vehicle.
>
> 2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering that there will be 
> some
> power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is longer than shorter?  My
> current length is over 6 feet.

Short.  Shorter is even better.  Minimize the number of connection 
points going to and from the radio.
>
> 3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply?
> Currently, mine are right at the power supply.

Doesn't really matter ... unless things in your configuration are going 
to move.  If things move, shorts can happen in many places.  You really 
want the short to happen "after" the fuse, so I'd put it as close to the 
power supply as possible, just on general principles.
>
> The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I am getting somewhat 
> of a
> voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the voltage is at 13.8 but 
> goes
> to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22 amps.

Well, "Over 6ft" could be a kilometer or so, but for a reasonable shack 
length, that's a little more than expected.  There's a couple of tenths 
volt drop in the K3 to the voltage sensor.  The problem with fuses in 
moderately high current applications is that the fuse connections often 
offer a lot of voltage drop themselves.  The automotive spade lug fuses 
in their appropriate holders tend to be lower resistance than the 
in-line guys, but that sometimes involves additional connections.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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[Elecraft] OT: G5RV's antenna

[Ken G Kopp]

I have Varney's (G5RV) original article.  The antenna was designed
for -only- 20M .  Since then it's taken on the proverbial "life of it's
own" and become somewhat of a "cult" antenna, as is the case with
the "Carolina Windom".

Why would one start with a perfectly good balanced-line fed Zepp,
cobble a piece of "special-length" coax onto the end of that balanced
line so that the antenna becomes something else, and then have to
use an antenna tuner to make the thing work?

Since the antenna requires a tuner, why not connect the balanced line
to a balanced tuner ... or one with a balun ... and enjoy all the virtues
of a classic Zepp?

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP
elecraftcov...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Don Wilhelm]

Phil,

My lab "simulated antenna" consists of a dummy load and a Johnson Matchbox.
I can connect a dummy load to the Matchbox and twist the dials to create 
just about any reasonable impedance that you want.  I set it up using my 
MFJ259B if I am looking for something specific.

The helpful parameter is that it is frequency sensitive (just like an 
antenna), while a resistive dummy load is not sensitive to frequency.

I do normally use Caddock Thick Film resistors to create dummy loads.  I 
have several 50 ohm loads, but also have a 25 ohm (2 50 ohm resistors in 
parallel) and a 100 ohm (2 50 ohm resistors in series) that I use for 
setting the 2:1 SWR point while I am calibrating wattmeters.  These are 
1% tolerance loads, and if mounted to the connector (and heat sink) with 
short leads present a flat response up to 500 MHz.

Note well that the Caddock literature says only that the 50 ohm 
resistors are non-reactive - that may be true for other values, but I 
have taken that information at face value and use only the 50 om 
resistors for dummy loads.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 8:42 PM, Phil & Debbie Salas wrote:
> I've been making tuner loss measurements for an upcoming QST review of some
> remote autotuners.  My set-up is similar to the ARRL lab, but I've made a
> few changes.  I have two different load boxes.  One is a resistive load box
> that lets me measure loss with loads from 12-800 ohms.  The second load box
> simulates different types of electrically short end-fed antennas - like a 43
> footer on lower frequency bands, or an 8-footer like you might have mobile,
> and other combinations.  I use Caddock thick-film 30-watt resistors for the
> resistive portion of both test boxes.  For the short antenna simulator, I
> use series silver mica capacitors with shunt Caddock resistors.
>
> Basically, I feed the 40 watt output of my test transceiver through a high
> power 6dB pad, through an Array Solutions PowerMaster, then to the tuner.
> So my test power is 10 watts.  The 6dB pad helps keep the power relatively
> constant, but primarily ensures that any reflected power from a non-perfect
> tune (the tuners have a target of 1.5:1) is attenuated 12dB more if
> re-reflected by the transmitter.  The output of the tuner feeds the load
> box.  The load box has an output that feeds a 50 ohm attenuator/Minicircuits
> PWR-6GHS+ power sensor (that output is shunted or seriesed with Caddock
> resistors to give the required test impedance).  So I start with no tuner
> in-line and adjust the Minicircuits offset so it and the PowerMaster read
> the same at 10 watts.  They are both NIST-traceable cal'd, and were within
> 3% of each other, but I adjusted the offset so they are within 1%.  Then I
> insert the autotuner, hit it with RF and let it tune.  When tuning is
> complete I adjust the input drive so it is exactly 10 watts, read the output
> on the PWR-6GHS+, and compare that to the expected power under lossless
> conditions.
>
> Phil - AD5X
>
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[WILLIS COOKE]

OK Guys, I have a Physics Degree too, but realistically, if the tuner uses real 
coils and air capacitors like the Matchbox it is really efficient.  If it uses 
link coupling like we did in olden days it is probably a scotch (technical term 
meaning a little bit) better than the more common T network.  If it uses 
toroids, small fixed capacitors and relay switching, it probably has even more 
loss.  So, maybe the answer is to buy a tuner that is the same size as your 
amplifier.  If you elect to run a KTA-500 you probably are not terribly 
concerned whether you get 475 watts to the antenna or 450 watts.  If you need 
an Alpha 9500 to be sure that you get through then you need the Alpha 4040 so 
it will look great near your 9500 and the 3 grand price will seem cheap after 
paying 8 grand for the amp.  You can always brag on your 75 meter net that of 
the 1499.9 watts out of the 9500 1499.8 watts get through the 4040 to melt the 
RG8X that feeds your Buddy Pole.
  But, if the KTA-500 is your thing then a tuner that costs more than your amp 
and is the biggest thing in your shack (unless you have a left over BC-610) 
will look pretty silly.

If you must measure your temperatures to figure your efficiency down to the 
milliwatt, be sure and use RTDs for measurement because thermocouples are not 
nearly accurate enough for precision measurements.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Tony Estep 
To: Elecraft  
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner
 
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham  wrote:
> This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved
> here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its efficiency...
=
Ian, the idea was to measure the power soaked up by the tuner by
measuring how fast it heats up. To turn degrees/second into a measure
of power, you gotta know how much mass was getting heated.

Tony KT0NY


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[Elecraft] Power Cord Questions

[Lee Buller]

I am rebuilding the power cord from my RM35M to the K3.

Questions.

1.  Do you need fuses to be in both the positive and negative lead?  Or, since 
I 
am a "fixed" station, can I get away with one fuse in the positive lead?  
Currently, I have both leads fused.

2.  What length should the power cord beconsidering that there will be some 
power consumption (voltage drop) in the line which is longer than shorter?  My 
current length is over 6 feet.

3.  Should the fuse(s) be mounted at the radio or at the power supply?  
Currently, mine are right at the power supply.

The reason why I am rebuilding the power cord is that I am getting somewhat of 
a 
voltage drop on key down.  According to the K3, the voltage is at 13.8 but goes 
to 11 volts at key down at 100 wattsaround 21 to 22 amps.  So, I suspect 
something might a tad glitchy in the power cord.  Maybe I just need to 
reinstall 
the Anderson Power Poles.

Comments?

Lee - K0WA




 In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply.  If you 
don't 
have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it.  If you can't find 
any 
Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense.  Is Common 
Sense divine?

Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. 
-  John W. (Kansas)

Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you.
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Don Wilhelm]

Bob,

One can construct a link coupled tuner that will have even greater 
efficiency than the venerable Johnson Matchbox.  It will have plug-in 
coils, and the antenna will connect to taps on the coil rather than 
using a differential capacitor - that tuner will have a greater matching 
range than the Matchbox as well as having less loss.  The drawback is 
that it does not lend itself well to bandswitching.  OTOH, it does not 
need to be in an enclosure, can be built on a piece of wood (yes, mine 
is built on a wooden board), so the plug-in coil is easily accessed and 
changed to whatever band one wants ot operate on. Once the settings for 
any one antenna have been established and recorded, changing bands takes 
less than 30 seconds.

As L.B.Cebik has stated many times, link coupled balanced tuners are the 
most efficient.  Their loss is close to zero.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 7:56 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote:
> QST had an article a while back comparing tuners, MFJ, Palomar, Drake and 
> several others if I remember correctly.
> They had a chart showing the loss per band per each tuner.
> They included the old Johnson Viking matchbox in their ranking too.  The old 
> Johnson was right up there
> in the top rankings, with very low loss.  I wish I still had my old Johnson, 
> sigh...
> Anyway a search on the ARRL webpage for QST articles about tuners should show 
> the article.
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2012, at 2:10 PM, W5RDW wrote:
>
>> Never had any reason to wonder if my MFJ-998 has more than normal loss. It
>> hasn't let any smoke out of the cabinet yet! I use to run a Drake L-7 thru
>> it, but now use the KPA500 all the time and have retired the Drake.
>>
>>> /Most of the MFJ tuners tend to rank pretty low in that respect./
>> Dave, I'd be interested in reading about the info you have on the MFJ tuner
>> loss.
>>
>> -
>> Roger W5RDW
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/high-power-tuner-tp7314904p7359740.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Ian Kahn - Ham]

All,

As I said, question shows my lack of knowledge of physics. :-)

Thanks, everyone, for the explanations!

73,

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688


On 3/9/2012 6:30 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
> This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved 
> here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its 
> efficiency?
>
> 73,
>
> --Ian
>
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA
> km4ik@gmail.com
> K3 #281, P3 #688
>
>
> On 3/9/2012 6:14 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> On 3/9/2012 2:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>>
>>> If you need a tuner, your
>>> antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you using to form
>>> your opinion?
>> Weigh the tuner, then transmit continuously, measure the temperature
>> rise, and when it's stable, calculate the heat loss [something to do
>> with Boltzman's Constant -- the tuner *is* painted black].  What doesn't
>> leave as heat must leave as RF.  Did it years ago on a 10 KW FM
>> broadcast transmitter [4 ea 4-1000's], and it came within one percent of
>> the efficiency measured with the water-cooled dummy load.  YMMV however.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Fred K6DGW
>> - Northern California Contest Club
>> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
>> - www.cqp.org
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Mike Morrow]

> Another style 80/40m dipole was made using a 3-inch spacer of nylon 
> rope to disconnect the outer part the 80m dipole from the center 40m 
> dipole.  A plain old alligator clip was used switch bands.  Unclip 
> for 40m and reconnect for 80m...Makes a great portable antenna for two 
> bands (a lot more efficient and lighter than traps).  I even ran the 
> this at 12 feet off the snow on some years with good results.

I've had similar very positive results for a couple of decades with a
multi-band dipole that is constructed in like manner, but for six bands
(40m through 10m) using 1.5-inch plastic insulators with integral
jumper/clip assemblies.

It's almost impossible to match the low cost, effectiveness, light weight,
and simplicity of a resonant center-fed half-wave dipole without traps.
Plus...no ground, radial, or counterpoise system is required or desirable.

Verticals and OCFs are typically poor choices that are never simple for
multi-band use.  I call those "Fashion Designer" antennas.

73,
Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV  wrote:
> OCF antennas, under miscellaneous names, have been working fine...
=
Of course. Please note that the Elecraft product line was originally
designed to be used with an end-fed wire (the ultimate in off-center
feed), or with a long wire fed against a short counterpoise. It's
pretty far-fetched to say that OCF antenna are no good -- they radiate
and they receive. I worked 260 countries in a year with an OCF antenna
that I used on all bands 80-10.

An OCF antenna may require more knowledge from its user than a
coax-fed dipole, but that doesn't mean it won't work. If you set it up
properly it will work. If you don't, RF will come into your shack and
bite you, and you'll be unhappy. But there's a lot of ham gear that
doesn't give good results when set up wrong.

Tony KT0NY


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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

OCF antennas, under miscellaneous names, have been working fine, just fine,
just about as long as radio.

We just have 50 ohm coax and SWR meters on the brain, and have a terrible
time seeing outside the rather narrow 50 ohm coax/low SWR box.  And we're
boxing ourselves in further with single-Z transistor amps that fall off the
table and go blurg off 50 ohm Z.  (Whatever happened to
I-don't-give-a-d*mn-about-SWR tetrode amps, like 807's, 6146's and
4CX1000A?  I worked DXCC and had a BPL medallion before I ever had an SWR
meter.  Just can't understand how I managed.  :>)Oops, forgot, Alpha's
8410 monster uses a pair of those 4CX1000A's, and it really doesn't give a
d*mn about swr, either.)

One famous (back in the day) OCF oldie is the ORIGINAL Windom, the single
wire feed version Windom, decidedly an OCF.  It's only a single band
antenna, but you feed the single up wire with a 9:1 auto transformer at the
ground against what can be minimal  to almost non-existent radials since
the Z is 400-450 ohms at the bottom of the feed wire, and it takes an
absolute totally ugly resistive stinking ground connection to mess it up.
 Very useful on field days.  It's supreme mechanical advantage is that the
single wire feedline can be a single stranded #18 wire, even for QRO, far
and away lighter than any other feedline. This means you can get what
amounts to weird-fed 80 and 40 dipoles WAY up there, that are only
supported at the ends, without all the weight issues.

How does it work?  It USES the common mode feedline induction from the long
side of the OCF dipole, to work against the opposite phase coming from the
feed (it's the same piece of wire).  If you monkey with it a bit in a
model, you can pick a connection point for the single wire feed where the
current is flat all the way up, no standing waves, which means it is
radiating very little from the feed. Or you can move it around a bit and
PICK the amount of vertical radiation you would like to mix in.   But that
changes the feed Z.

 Disadvantage?, you can't buy the 9:1 autotransformer off the shelf any old
where and you may have to roll your own.

OCF antennas in general CAN be tamed at QRO, but one needs to know to do
it.  Just running a feedline to it and putting power on it WILL get you RF
in the shack as others have opined.

Using an isolation device at the antenna end only gets PART of the problem.
The other part is that the now isolated feed line is STILL off center
approaching the OCF antenna.  This in and of itself will cause the
"isolated" antenna to induce current on the feedline shield, because the
long part of the antenna at right angles to the feed line induces more
current to the feedline than the opposite phase current from the short
part.  This is not a problem in a dipole where ordinary (and fairly weak)
devices pull off any needed isolation.  "Weak" isolating devices will not
cut it for OCF.

A SECOND isolation device down the coax a bit, that breaks up the coax
shield into a non-resonant length next to the antenna, will prevent the RF
in the shack AND it will clean up the pattern to what the models say it
should be, usually a performance plus.  Care needs to be taken to the
suitability of the isolation devices for the two uses.

Some antennas use the second device as the ONLY device and deliberately use
a length of the shield as a common mode radiator.  No advertising needed.

If you suspect that cleaning up all this tends to work against multiband
use and makes doing OCF well a chess game, you suspect correctly.

Portable use at 100 watts without all the isolators will work just fine.
 OCF's have been a mainstay of field day use as long as that has been going
on.  My K2/10, with the built-in ATU and the itty bitty balun love those
antennas and never had the first problem.

73, Guy.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Well said Jim,
>
> There is no way to obtain equal and opposite currents on the feedline
> with an offset fed antenna - they are a sure recipe for
> RF-in-the-shack.  As much acclaim as the Carolina Windom gets,  that
> fact is still true, one just cannot run high power with such an antenna
> - at low power the RF levels may be tolerable, but at high power, they
> can wreak havoc in the shack with RF all over everything.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/9/2012 5:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On 3/9/2012 1:50 PM, Bill wrote:
> >> I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF
> > Off center fed antennas are a recipe for noise pickup on the feedline.
> > While a good common mode choke can help, off-center feed can also burn
> > up a common mode choke if you're running much power.
> >
> > Bottom line -- off-center-fed antennas are a bad idea.
> >
> > 73, Jim Brown K9YC
> >
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Phil & Debbie Salas]

I've been making tuner loss measurements for an upcoming QST review of some 
remote autotuners.  My set-up is similar to the ARRL lab, but I've made a 
few changes.  I have two different load boxes.  One is a resistive load box 
that lets me measure loss with loads from 12-800 ohms.  The second load box 
simulates different types of electrically short end-fed antennas - like a 43 
footer on lower frequency bands, or an 8-footer like you might have mobile, 
and other combinations.  I use Caddock thick-film 30-watt resistors for the 
resistive portion of both test boxes.  For the short antenna simulator, I 
use series silver mica capacitors with shunt Caddock resistors.

Basically, I feed the 40 watt output of my test transceiver through a high 
power 6dB pad, through an Array Solutions PowerMaster, then to the tuner. 
So my test power is 10 watts.  The 6dB pad helps keep the power relatively 
constant, but primarily ensures that any reflected power from a non-perfect 
tune (the tuners have a target of 1.5:1) is attenuated 12dB more if 
re-reflected by the transmitter.  The output of the tuner feeds the load 
box.  The load box has an output that feeds a 50 ohm attenuator/Minicircuits 
PWR-6GHS+ power sensor (that output is shunted or seriesed with Caddock 
resistors to give the required test impedance).  So I start with no tuner 
in-line and adjust the Minicircuits offset so it and the PowerMaster read 
the same at 10 watts.  They are both NIST-traceable cal'd, and were within 
3% of each other, but I adjusted the offset so they are within 1%.  Then I 
insert the autotuner, hit it with RF and let it tune.  When tuning is 
complete I adjust the input drive so it is exactly 10 watts, read the output 
on the PWR-6GHS+, and compare that to the expected power under lossless 
conditions.

Phil - AD5X 

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[Elecraft] 12 V ERR

[John]

The internal contact points on the socket are actually gold. Just the 
external legs that solder into the pcb are tin.

73,

Eric


Thanks Eric.
73.
John.
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Re: [Elecraft] New home page

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

This is a work in progress and we will be adding the top header with 
navigation to all the pages over time. We wanted to get the new main 
page up asap this week.

for now use the back key or click on the home page link at the bottom of 
most pages.

73,

Eric
---
www.elecraft.com


On 3/9/2012 4:04 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> The home page is looking great, but the Frames are gone, but the
> horizontal Link bar has the same information as the left column used to
> have.
>
> The problem is that once you click on any link to go to somewhere else
> on the site, you have to click the back button to get back to the home
> page in order to go to another section of the website.
>
> They may be out of favor, but I do like navigating a website in frames -
> I know how to escape from the frames if I desire.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/9/2012 6:46 PM, kevinr wrote:
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Re: [Elecraft] New home page

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

The QSL card link is still there with the links for 'Other 
Manufacturers' at the bottom of the main webpage.

73,

Eric
---
www.elecraft.com


On 3/9/2012 4:14 PM, Rick Bates wrote:
> Good catch.  I was there this morning so this happened today.
>
> Looks great.  The link to the QSL cards is missing though.
>
> Rick wa6nhc
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ian Kahn - Ham
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 3:34 PM
>
> All,
>
> If you haven't already seen it, check out Elecraft's new home page.  It
> looks really sharp and professional.  In my opinion, a huge improvement
> over what it looked like at about 8:30 AM ET this morning.
>
> 73,
>
> -- Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA
> km4ik@gmail.com
> K3 #281, P3 #688
>
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Re: [Elecraft] 12V ERR

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

The internal contact points on the socket are actually gold. Just the 
external legs that solder into the pcb are tin.

73,

Eric
---
www.elecraft.com


On 3/9/2012 4:37 PM, John wrote:
> I just recieved the replacement parts for my K3.
> Thank you ELECRAFT.
> The two 6 pin "blocks" are gold plated but the
> 20 pin "socket" and 26 pin "socket" are tin plated.
> Are these the correct parts for repair?
> John
>
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[Elecraft] K3 LOVE THE NEW WEB SITE

[Ron Durie SIL.org]

THANKS for the new web site home page etc.  It is so much easier to navigate.  
 
Best Regards to all at Elecraft. 
  
Ron WB4OOA
K3 604 and 6175   P3 88   KPA500 127



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Re: [Elecraft] RTTY and Alternating BW.25 and BW .50

[Tom]

It is not changing when going to VFO B.  I stay on VFO A and am
getting the alternating BW .25 and BW.50 where the VFO B readout is.

Tom
KQ5S

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Mike K2MK  wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> My lower readout is stable, reporting the bandwidth as it was set and not
> modifying it then changing to VFO B frequency. I would suspect that your PC
> software program is asserting a command. Try it without your software
> running or with your RS232 disconnected.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
> KQ5S wrote
>>
>> I should have said I am using FSK D.
>>
>> Tom
>> KQ5S
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Tom  wrote:
>>> While in RTTY (Data A) I have hte DUAL PB turned on.  I am seeing
>>> where VFO B is an alternating BW .25 and BW .50 and then the VFO B
>>> frequency.   As BW changes from .25 to .50 the  twin band width
>>> indicators change accordingly.
>>>
>>> Is this normal?
>>>
>>> Tom
>>> KQ5S
>>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/RTTY-and-Alternating-BW-25-and-BW-50-tp7360063p7360091.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Feature request: MON in headphones only when SPKR+PH=yes

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> haven't noticed that effect on my K3 and actually when just tested it
> now I don't hear anything other than a very faint click when the
> speaker switches off (I have PF2 programmed to toggle SPKR+PH). Maybe
> it's only on some K3's?

Toggle SPKR+PH with audio (e.g. WWV) at normal listening level.  Both
of my K3s ramp audio down over about 1/3 to 1/2 second and the audio
gets very distorted just before shutting off.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 3/9/2012 6:15 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> Joe,
>
> On 9 March 2012 22:29, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
>
> ]What Wayne would need to do is mute the speaker (shutdown the speaker
>> amplifier) during transmit - and only for voice (AM, FM, SSB) modes.
>> However, if you notice the shutdown behavior of the speaker amplifier
>> it does not turn off instantly and generates a lot of distortion during
>> the process.  That ramp down and distortion would be very annoying.
>>
>
> If that's the case then of course it wouldn't make sense to do.
>
>   haven't noticed that effect on my K3 and actually when just tested it now
> I don't hear anything other than a very faint click when the speaker
> switches off (I have PF2 programmed to toggle SPKR+PH). Maybe it's only on
> some K3's?
>
> 73, Thomas
>
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham  wrote:
> This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved
> here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its efficiency...
=
Ian, the idea was to measure the power soaked up by the tuner by
measuring how fast it heats up. To turn degrees/second into a measure
of power, you gotta know how much mass was getting heated.

Tony KT0NY


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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Fred Jensen]

"The only thing that shows gross lack of knowledge is not asking the 
question for which you need the answer."  [Cal Poly Physics Professor 
whose name escapes me but whose class I remember as a personal struggle].

To know the net rate of heat input [i.e. generation within the tuner] 
from the temperature change, you need to know the mass of the tuner. 
Weigh it and a little arithmetic and you have the mass.  The RF that 
doesn't heat the tuner must go up the coax.  Weighing has nothing to do 
with the efficiency itself, it is part of the 
not-exactly-precise-measurement-method I suggested but don't recommend.

For the FM transmitter, we had temperature sensors in the grid 
compartment on the bottom where the refrigerated air entered, and just 
far enough above the chimneys where it came out hot.  There was a water 
manometer to measure the pressure difference between the air inlet and 
the vent that took the hot air outside.  The pressure differential was 
very low so I assumed that the air got hot at a constant pressure.  This 
was an important assumption because at that time I didn't know enough 
calculus for the alternative.   I probably don't remember now either.

I got up very early one morning [was 17 and living at the TX], and 
turned on the filaments.  When the temperatures had stabilized, and 
knowing the filaments were turning 600W of electricity into almost 600W 
of heat, I could calculate the mass rate of the air flowing through the 
chimneys.  Sign on came, I let the temps stabilize at 5.3 KV and 3.5A 
plate current, and calculated the heat input to give those temps.  That 
power blew out the vent, the rest went up the 3 1/8" rigid coax to the 
antenna, I assumed.  Turned out we were a little overpower, almost 12KW 
for about 70% efficiency and the 4-1000 plates were fairly bright.  OK, 
really bright.

For the case of the tuner, it's not so simple and I skillfully tried to 
skate past the effect of radiation from the "black body" [i.e. the 
"black" tuner which, while black, probably isn't a real black body] as 
the RF heats it.   While I know the first six digits of Boltzmann's 
Constant [138065 -- it used to be the master unlock password for a UHF 
repeater I maintain], I've forgotten some of the physics and math I used 
to know and it's guaranteed that, were I to attempt that calculation on 
this list, a countable infinity of people would correct me and then each 
other ... likely forever or until Eric stepped in.

It was a e-nerd semi-joke, which I've found are not often funny except 
to other e-nerds.  Undaunted however, I continued.  Cookie's comment 
about measuring the efficiency of tuners being hard is very true, and 
you can't do it with a Micronta SWR meter from Radio Shack.  It will 
involve some math, maybe even calculus, and quite a bit of expensive 
test equipment.

I would trust ARRL's numbers, and those of a few others like Sherwood, 
I'll remain a little skeptical of the Mfr's numbers, if they even 
publish them.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

On 3/9/2012 3:30 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
 > This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved
 > here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its 
efficiency?

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Re: [Elecraft] RTTY and Alternating BW.25 and BW .50

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Tom,

My lower readout is stable, reporting the bandwidth as it was set and not
modifying it then changing to VFO B frequency. I would suspect that your PC
software program is asserting a command. Try it without your software
running or with your RS232 disconnected.

73,
Mike K2MK


KQ5S wrote
> 
> I should have said I am using FSK D.
> 
> Tom
> KQ5S
> 
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Tom  wrote:
>> While in RTTY (Data A) I have hte DUAL PB turned on.  I am seeing
>> where VFO B is an alternating BW .25 and BW .50 and then the VFO B
>> frequency.   As BW changes from .25 to .50 the  twin band width
>> indicators change accordingly.
>>
>> Is this normal?
>>
>> Tom
>> KQ5S
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Bob K6UJ]

QST had an article a while back comparing tuners, MFJ, Palomar, Drake and 
several others if I remember correctly.
They had a chart showing the loss per band per each tuner.  
They included the old Johnson Viking matchbox in their ranking too.  The old 
Johnson was right up there
in the top rankings, with very low loss.  I wish I still had my old Johnson, 
sigh...
Anyway a search on the ARRL webpage for QST articles about tuners should show 
the article.

Bob
K6UJ



On Mar 9, 2012, at 2:10 PM, W5RDW wrote:

> Never had any reason to wonder if my MFJ-998 has more than normal loss. It
> hasn't let any smoke out of the cabinet yet! I use to run a Drake L-7 thru
> it, but now use the KPA500 all the time and have retired the Drake.
> 
>> /Most of the MFJ tuners tend to rank pretty low in that respect./ 
> 
> Dave, I'd be interested in reading about the info you have on the MFJ tuner
> loss.
> 
> -
> Roger W5RDW
> --
> View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] Good Low Cost Audio to USB Interfaces For Digital Modes

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Griffin iMIC is a standard "USB Audio Class" device.  Most modern
operating systems support USB Audio Class devices with standard
drivers.  The iMic is reasonably well built for a commodity device.
Nothing special positive or negative ...

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 3/9/2012 6:13 PM, Tom Azlin N4ZPT wrote:
> Works for both Jim. Windows has the drivers. Is very nice.
>
> 73, tom
>
> On 3/9/2012 5:52 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 3/9/2012 7:59 AM, Mike wrote:
>>> Have you an opinion on the iMic?
>>
>> Know nothing about it -- I live in the PC world.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Good Low Cost Audio to USB Interfaces For Digital Modes

[Jim Brown]

On 3/8/2012 10:26 PM, wb6r...@mac.com wrote:
> Hi Jim - I've been using a Griffin iMic for years. Reliable. 
> Inexpensive. FYI.

Just looked at it.  Looks good, and it might be the same as this one, 
which W0YK swears by.  He takes them to P40X for his record-breaking 
RTTY contest efforts. $29.  I just learned about it when I posted the 
same notes to the NCCC reflector and he responded.

http://www.byterunner.com/byterunner/product_name=UA580/user-id=/password=/exchange=/exact_match=exact

Here's Ed response on the NCCC reflector yesterday, including Iain's 
question to me.

=   =   =   =   =   =   =   =

I've been using a no-name USB soundcard with my traveling contest PCs for a
couple years now with good results.  I discovered recently that it is also
marketed by ByteRunner as their model number is UA580.  It does allow full
duplex and has stereo Line Input so it works well for SO2V RTTY too.
Available from several online vendors besides ByteRunner, and under $30.

Ed - W0YK



Iain, N6ML, wrote:

> I'm curious if either of these support "duplex" operation ...
> i.e. can you connect a mic to the input, connect the output
> to the line-in on the K3, and use them for "live audio" as
> well as recorded messages for software DVK? Some (all?) of
> the cheap USB audio interfaces I've tried didn't seem to be
> able to do that - they could record, and playback, but not
> loop-through...

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Re: [Elecraft] RTTY and Alternating BW.25 and BW .50

[Tom]

I should have said I am using FSK D.

Tom
KQ5S

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:39 AM, Tom  wrote:
> While in RTTY (Data A) I have hte DUAL PB turned on.  I am seeing
> where VFO B is an alternating BW .25 and BW .50 and then the VFO B
> frequency.   As BW changes from .25 to .50 the  twin band width
> indicators change accordingly.
>
> Is this normal?
>
> Tom
> KQ5S
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Re: [Elecraft] Dumb Question of the Day

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Tony,

When you are using your SUB RX you can of course vary which ear gives you
which VFO (or both) using the configuration variable described by another
responder. It's CONFIG:L-MIX-R but it's kind of out of alphabetical order in
the configuration file. It's with the M's.

You also have further control with the AF-SUB concentric knobs and those
knobs can be changed from individual volume controls for the left and right
ear or to work as a common volume control (inner knob) and balance control
(outer ring). The variable for that is CONFIG:SUB AF.

To hear VFO A in both ears when you are only using VFO A you MUST turn off
the SUB RX. Then the single AF volume control will control the sound of only
VFO A in both ears. If you are only hearing sound in the left ear then
something is amiss. 

73,
Mike K2MK


Tony McClenny wrote
> 
> All,
>  
> I apologize for asking this but simply cannot find it in the manual or
> figure it out.
>  
> How does one transfer sound from VFO A in left ear and VFO B in right ear
> to
> both ears (Heil Pro-Set)?  
>  
> I enjoy using one ear on each when using two VFO's, but would like to hear
> same in both ears when using one (A) VFO and cannot reverse what I
> created.
> 
>  
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
>  
> - Tony, N3ME -
> 
> 118 Ashwood Street
> Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699
> (302) 539-5638
> Grid:  FM28lm
>  ; http://www.n3me.net
> Elecraft K3 # 2462
> 


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[Elecraft] Shipping Notice Received!

[Roger Gagos]

Looks like the P3-SVGA boards are shipping as shown on the schedule page.
Got my notice today, time to warm up the monitor!

73,

Roger Gagos, K6EQ
Escondido, CA
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[Elecraft] RTTY and Alternating BW.25 and BW .50

[Tom]

While in RTTY (Data A) I have hte DUAL PB turned on.  I am seeing
where VFO B is an alternating BW .25 and BW .50 and then the VFO B
frequency.   As BW changes from .25 to .50 the  twin band width
indicators change accordingly.

Is this normal?

Tom
KQ5S
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[Elecraft] 12V ERR

[John]

I just recieved the replacement parts for my K3.
Thank you ELECRAFT.
The two 6 pin "blocks" are gold plated but the
20 pin "socket" and 26 pin "socket" are tin plated.
Are these the correct parts for repair?
John

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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

They do :-) Another way to feed dipoles cut for different bands using a 
single feeder which I find to be less fussy, is to configure the dipoles as 
"Coupled Resonators", with the feeder connected to only one of the dipoles - 
usually to the dipole cut for the lowest frequency band.  The dipole wires 
(tubing in a beam) are run parallel to each other with their mid-points 
facing one another.  The spacing between the dipoles (in wavelengths) 
depends on the wire guage (or tubing diameter).  The ARRL Antenna Handbook 
20th edition covers this scheme in some detail in Chapter 7.

I have a three band wire version (12 - 10 - 6m) here at this time, with a 
plane reflector behind it. 15m yet to be added.

73,

Geoff
LX2AO



On March 09, 2012 at 22:41 +0100, Mike Morrow wrote:


>> I have used duel band dipoles too but found them harder to get set up
>> properly.
>
> That's because they're fighting each other! [duel vs. dual, :-)]

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[Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Edward R. Cole]

I'd echo remarks of Keith, AG6AZ.  I have used resonant dipoles, 
folded dipoles, inverted-V "dipoles", sloper dipoles, etc. for years 
(since 1958).  One cannot replace the inherent simplicity of a 
half-wave resonant antenna.

Currently, I have a dual-band 80/40m inverted-V (40 foot in center 
with 20-foot high ends) which is perfect for local to mid-distance 
(actually works out 3,000 miles easily with 14w with my K3/10).  I 
used some 1/2-inch dia.by 8-inch long painted wooden dowel drilled to 
accept #12 solid copper wire to be separated by 6-inches for the two 
dipoles.  I spaced the dowels about 2-foot along the dipoles.  A bit 
of nylon (black dacron would be better) cord at the end of the 40m 
dipole ends secures it back to the 80 dipole wires.  Black Tywraps to 
hold the spacers in place.  Basically do it yourself 600-ohm open wire.

I tuned the 80 m dipole first then the 40m dipole for my favorite 
part of each band using a MFJ-269B analyzer.  A tuner lets me use the 
whole band if I want.  Not up yet will be a sloping dipole for 30m at 
40 feet on the high end facing east off my 50-foot tower#2.  Dipoles 
are the easiest antennas to get working for HF.

Another style 80/40m dipole was made using a 3-inch spacer of nylon 
rope to disconnect the outer part the 80m dipole from the center 40m 
dipole.  A plain old alligator clip was used switch bands.  Unclip 
for 40m and reconnect for 80m.  This was dubbed the "Iditarod 
Special" for its use at trail checkpoints when ham radio was used in 
the sled dog race years ago.  Makes a great portable antenna for two 
bands (a lot more efficient and lighter than traps).  I even ran the 
this at 12 feet off the snow on some years with good results.  I took 
no tuner but did have a SWR meter for adjustments.




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
==
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
==
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[Elecraft] Dumb Question of the Day

[Tony McClenny]

All,
 
I apologize for asking this but simply cannot find it in the manual or
figure it out.
 
How does one transfer sound from VFO A in left ear and VFO B in right ear to
both ears (Heil Pro-Set)?  
 
I enjoy using one ear on each when using two VFO's, but would like to hear
same in both ears when using one (A) VFO and cannot reverse what I created.

 
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
 
- Tony, N3ME -

118 Ashwood Street
Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699
(302) 539-5638
Grid:  FM28lm
  http://www.n3me.net
Elecraft K3 # 2462
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Small Knobs

[Don Wilhelm]

Larry,

Are they really loose, or is the "loose" sensation an artifact of them 
having a pushbutton function as well.
Is there a chance that the original builder damaged the springs when he 
installed the knobs on your K3?
A steady pull will normally remove those knobs.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 7:11 PM, Larry Boekeloo wrote:
> I purchased a used K3 a few weeks ago and the small knobs (shift&  width) 
> seem to be a little loose on the shafts.  I see that they are "push ons".  
> Has anyone taken one off to check the spring?  I can only surmise that I have 
> to pull them quite firmly to get them to come off?  Any help out there?  
> Thanks.  Larry, KN8N
>
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Mike WA8BXN]

Ian, 
 
Weight comes into play in two ways. A heavier tuner will likely have less
loss due to less resistive loss by using larger diameter wire etc. But that
s not the issue in measuring the loss. 
 
As Fred mentions below, power fed into a tuner goes two places. One is out
to the load (antenna) and the other is heating the tuner (not a good thing).
One can measure how much a tuner warms up during use, that's due to loss in
the tuner. Just knowing the temperature change doesn't give the full answer
though. Lets say we measure an increased temperature of 10 degrees. Now if
we have a very heavy tuner, that would be more power lost in the tuner than
in a tuner that has the same 10 degree increase but is very small. Look at
it this way. It would take a lot more power to heat a gallon of water 10
degrees than to head a drop of water 10 degrees. 
 
To calculate the actual power loss in the tuner you would have to use the
right degree units, the right weight (mass) units and constants. You would
also have to heat insulate the tuner from the room so it doesn't cool off
during your measurement period. 
 
73 - Mike WA8BXN 
 
 
 
 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Ian Kahn - Ham 
Date: 3/9/2012 6:31:37 PM 
To: k6...@foothill.net 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner 
 
This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved 
Here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its efficiency? 
 
73, 
 
--Ian 
 
Ian Kahn, KM4IK 
Roswell, GA 
km4ik@gmail.com 
K3 #281, P3 #688 
 
 
On 3/9/2012 6:14 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: 
> On 3/9/2012 2:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote: 
> 
>> If you need a tuner, your 
>> antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you using to form 
>> your opinion? 
> Weigh the tuner, then transmit continuously, measure the temperature 
> rise, and when it's stable, calculate the heat loss [something to do 
> with Boltzman's Constant -- the tuner *is* painted black]. What doesn't 
> leave as heat must leave as RF. Did it years ago on a 10 KW FM 
> broadcast transmitter [4 ea 4-1000's], and it came within one percent of 
> the efficiency measured with the water-cooled dummy load. YMMV however. 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Fred K6DGW 
> - Northern California Contest Club 
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 
> - www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] New home page

[Rick Bates]

Good catch.  I was there this morning so this happened today.

Looks great.  The link to the QSL cards is missing though.

Rick wa6nhc

-Original Message-
From: Ian Kahn - Ham
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 3:34 PM

All,

If you haven't already seen it, check out Elecraft's new home page.  It 
looks really sharp and professional.  In my opinion, a huge improvement 
over what it looked like at about 8:30 AM ET this morning.

73,

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688

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[Elecraft] K3 - Small Knobs

[Larry Boekeloo]

I purchased a used K3 a few weeks ago and the small knobs (shift & width) seem 
to be a little loose on the shafts.  I see that they are "push ons".  Has 
anyone taken one off to check the spring?  I can only surmise that I have to 
pull them quite firmly to get them to come off?  Any help out there?  Thanks.  
Larry, KN8N
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Don Wilhelm]

Well said Jim,

There is no way to obtain equal and opposite currents on the feedline 
with an offset fed antenna - they are a sure recipe for 
RF-in-the-shack.  As much acclaim as the Carolina Windom gets,  that 
fact is still true, one just cannot run high power with such an antenna 
- at low power the RF levels may be tolerable, but at high power, they 
can wreak havoc in the shack with RF all over everything.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 5:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 1:50 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF
> Off center fed antennas are a recipe for noise pickup on the feedline.
> While a good common mode choke can help, off-center feed can also burn
> up a common mode choke if you're running much power.
>
> Bottom line -- off-center-fed antennas are a bad idea.
>
> 73, Jim Brown K9YC
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Rick Bates]

I'll take a guess...

You have to know the mass to find the amount of energy converted into heat.
Like Ohm's law, given two values, you can figure out the third.  If you know
the mass and know the temperature change, you can calculate the energy.

Ok Fred, am I close?

Rick wa6nhc

-Original Message-
From: Ian Kahn - Ham

This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved 
here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its efficiency?

73,

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688


On 3/9/2012 6:14 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 2:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>
>> If you need a tuner, your
>> antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you using to form
>> your opinion?
> Weigh the tuner, then transmit continuously, measure the temperature
> rise, and when it's stable, calculate the heat loss [something to do
> with Boltzman's Constant -- the tuner *is* painted black].  What doesn't
> leave as heat must leave as RF.  Did it years ago on a 10 KW FM
> broadcast transmitter [4 ea 4-1000's], and it came within one percent of
> the efficiency measured with the water-cooled dummy load.  YMMV however.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
> - www.cqp.org
>
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Re: [Elecraft] New home page

[Don Wilhelm]

The home page is looking great, but the Frames are gone, but the 
horizontal Link bar has the same information as the left column used to 
have.

The problem is that once you click on any link to go to somewhere else 
on the site, you have to click the back button to get back to the home 
page in order to go to another section of the website.

They may be out of favor, but I do like navigating a website in frames - 
I know how to escape from the frames if I desire.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 6:46 PM, kevinr wrote:
> It is indeed a fine looking web page.
>
> Just for fun I looked up the Elecraft site during the months before I
> purchased my K2.  My how time flies :)  Great job guys I think you have
> come a very long way in the last 11 years.  Thank you!
>
> The July 2001 site is located here:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20010720020749/http://elecraft.com/
>
> Kevin.  KD5ONS
>
>
>
> On 3/9/2012 3:33 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> If you haven't already seen it, check out Elecraft's new home page.  It
>> looks really sharp and professional.  In my opinion, a huge improvement
>> over what it looked like at about 8:30 AM ET this morning.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> -- Ian
>> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
>> Roswell, GA
>> km4ik@gmail.com
>> K3 #281, P3 #688
>>
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[Elecraft] P3SVGA Confirmation

[Peter Dent]

Just received an email from Vicky at Elecraft asking for confirmation of
my  P3SVGA order which "will ship in the next 3-5 days"

Let the good times roll, now wating for the KAT500!!

vry 73 to all

Peter  ZL1PWD
Elecraft K Line
LL+64 09 4370956
Cell+64  0221041630
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Re: [Elecraft] New home page

[kevinr]

It is indeed a fine looking web page.

Just for fun I looked up the Elecraft site during the months before I 
purchased my K2.  My how time flies :)  Great job guys I think you have 
come a very long way in the last 11 years.  Thank you!

The July 2001 site is located here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010720020749/http://elecraft.com/

Kevin.  KD5ONS



On 3/9/2012 3:33 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote:
> All,
>
> If you haven't already seen it, check out Elecraft's new home page.  It
> looks really sharp and professional.  In my opinion, a huge improvement
> over what it looked like at about 8:30 AM ET this morning.
>
> 73,
>
> -- Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA
> km4ik@gmail.com
> K3 #281, P3 #688
>
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[Elecraft] New home page

[Ian Kahn - Ham]

All,

If you haven't already seen it, check out Elecraft's new home page.  It 
looks really sharp and professional.  In my opinion, a huge improvement 
over what it looked like at about 8:30 AM ET this morning.

73,

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688

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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Ian Kahn - Ham]

This probably shows my gross lack of knowledge of the physics involved 
here, but what does the weight of the tuner have to do with its efficiency?

73,

--Ian

Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688


On 3/9/2012 6:14 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 2:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>
>> If you need a tuner, your
>> antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you using to form
>> your opinion?
> Weigh the tuner, then transmit continuously, measure the temperature
> rise, and when it's stable, calculate the heat loss [something to do
> with Boltzman's Constant -- the tuner *is* painted black].  What doesn't
> leave as heat must leave as RF.  Did it years ago on a 10 KW FM
> broadcast transmitter [4 ea 4-1000's], and it came within one percent of
> the efficiency measured with the water-cooled dummy load.  YMMV however.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
> - www.cqp.org
>
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Feature request: MON in headphones only when SPKR+PH=yes

[Thomas Horsten]

Joe,

On 9 March 2012 22:29, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

]What Wayne would need to do is mute the speaker (shutdown the speaker
> amplifier) during transmit - and only for voice (AM, FM, SSB) modes.
> However, if you notice the shutdown behavior of the speaker amplifier
> it does not turn off instantly and generates a lot of distortion during
> the process.  That ramp down and distortion would be very annoying.
>

If that's the case then of course it wouldn't make sense to do.

 haven't noticed that effect on my K3 and actually when just tested it now
I don't hear anything other than a very faint click when the speaker
switches off (I have PF2 programmed to toggle SPKR+PH). Maybe it's only on
some K3's?

73, Thomas
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Re: [Elecraft] Good Low Cost Audio to USB Interfaces For Digital Modes

[Tom Azlin N4ZPT]

Works for both Jim. Windows has the drivers. Is very nice.

73, tom

On 3/9/2012 5:52 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 7:59 AM, Mike wrote:
>> Have you an opinion on the iMic?
>
> Know nothing about it -- I live in the PC world.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Fred Jensen]

On 3/9/2012 2:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> If you need a tuner, your
> antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you using to form
> your opinion?

Weigh the tuner, then transmit continuously, measure the temperature 
rise, and when it's stable, calculate the heat loss [something to do 
with Boltzman's Constant -- the tuner *is* painted black].  What doesn't 
leave as heat must leave as RF.  Did it years ago on a 10 KW FM 
broadcast transmitter [4 ea 4-1000's], and it came within one percent of 
the efficiency measured with the water-cooled dummy load.  YMMV however.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Re: [Elecraft] Good Low Cost Audio to USB Interfaces For Digital Modes

[Mike]

Well dang! Thanks, Jim.

73, Mike NF4L

On 3/9/2012 5:52 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 3/9/2012 7:59 AM, Mike wrote:
>> Have you an opinion on the iMic?
> Know nothing about it -- I live in the PC world.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Fred Jensen]

On 3/9/2012 2:14 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> When I got on the air at this QTH in 2006 I installed a Carolina
> Windom from Radio Works.  It is about 40 feet high and fed with a
> short piece of RG8X.  I thought it a great antenna and worked some
> contests and a lot of DX.  Later, I installed a 30 foot vertical with
> one radial and found it much superior on 40 and 15.  Then I installed
> a 65 ft tower  with a 3 element SteppIR 30/40 and worked DXCC in 31
> days.  Then I installed a 40 and 80 inverted Vee fed with a common
> coax.  Then I installed an Inverted L with an 80 meter trap for 80
> and 160.  The Carolina Windom is still up, but it is not the
> preferred antenna for any band at any distance.  I find that the OCF
> is the best antenna only if it is your only antenna, but I have not
> compared it to a Buddy Pole.

If you keep installing antennas and don't take any down, will you ever 
have enough?

The Buddipole, using the horizontal loaded dipole "recipe" in the 
documentation, is an OCF configuration to improve the match, and the 
line has current on it.  Not a problem for my K2 or KX1 at 5 or 3W. 
Maybe not true for 100+ watts.  I've been using a center-loaded "recipe" 
with radials made from the longer BP extendable elements.  Seems to work 
better than the horizontal configs.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012
- www.cqp.org

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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Mike WA8BXN]

I can think of a few  ways to investigate a tuner's efficiency. Google
searching can probably give more. 

You can read the inductor and capacitor values selected by the 998 and then
do a circuit simulation of the L network and determine current through the
inductors to find their ohmic losses. 
 
Second, you can connect known non-inductive resistors (of different values,
throw in some inductance or capacitance too) as the output load and then
with an RF voltmeter determine the voltage across the load and then
calculate the power out. You will have to calculate the phase angle of your
load as well if its not purely resistive. This method could be done using
low power so its easier to build the output loads. 
 
You could probably also measure the temperature rise of the tuner in
operation (put it in an insulated box). 
 
Granted, there may not be a simple off the self instrument to do it, but it
can be done! 
 
73 - Mike WA8BXN 
 
 
 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: WILLIS COOKE 
Date: 3/9/2012 5:31:30 PM 
To: W5RDW; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner 
 
I wonder how those that claim a certain efficiency for a MFJ-998 or any
other antenna matching device are measuring the output power. No watt meter
that I know including the famous and antique Bird can measure power with any
degree of accuracy unless the load is very near the nominal value (usually
50 ohms). If you need a tuner, your antenna does not meet this criteria so,
what are you using to form your opinion? I suppose that you could compare
two tuners for a relative efficiency by using the same transmitter and
antenna and a field strength meter. Of course, if you are running near the
rated power, you can watch for smoke and get a one time opinion that the
device was not efficient enough to survive. 
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 4:24 PM, WILLIS COOKE  wrote:
> I wonder how those that claim a certain efficiency for a MFJ-998 or any other 
> antenna matching device are measuring the output power

Cookie, the ARRL labs have some way of doing this, but in their
reviews of tuners they don't explain how they do it. I suppose they
have some scheme for measuring what goes in and what comes out, but
they don't say. However, as I mentioned in a previous post, the MFJ
994 tuner they tested (August 2006) had somewhat lower losses than the
other similar tuners in the review. I could not find any published
data to support the assertion that MFJ tuners have high losses.

Tony KT0NY



-- 
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Jim Brown]

On 3/9/2012 1:50 PM, Bill wrote:
> I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF

Off center fed antennas are a recipe for noise pickup on the feedline. 
While a good common mode choke can help, off-center feed can also burn 
up a common mode choke if you're running much power.

Bottom line -- off-center-fed antennas are a bad idea.

73, Jim Brown K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Good Low Cost Audio to USB Interfaces For Digital Modes

[Jim Brown]

On 3/9/2012 7:59 AM, Mike wrote:
> Have you an opinion on the iMic?

Know nothing about it -- I live in the PC world.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Dumb Question

[Dick Dievendorff]

These aren't dumb questions.

The K3 configuration menu  has an L-MIX-R item that has a bunch of choices.
Play with the choices a bit. You'll want to turn the sub receiver on first.

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony McClenny
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 2:29 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Dumb Question

All,
 
I apologize for asking this but simply cannot find it in the manual or
figure it out.
 
How does one transfer sound from VFO A in left ear and VFO B in right ear to
both ears (Heil Pro-Set)?  
 
I enjoy using one ear on each when using two VFO's, but would like to hear
same in both ears when using one (A) VFO and cannot reverse what I created.

 
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
 
- Tony, N3ME -

118 Ashwood Street
Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699
(302) 539-5638
Grid:  FM28lm
  http://www.n3me.net Elecraft K3 # 2462
 
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Rick Bates]

If you have access to some space (I hide my antenna in the HOA 'common area'
trees, no one looks up or even uses that area), then what I use may be of
interest to you.

A 340' dipole (170' per leg, ~5/8 wave on 80 meters) fed with window line
through a DX engineering common mode choke (coax to the rig) matches on all
bands 80-6 with the K3/100.  The pattern will change from band to band
(cloud heater on 74, but I worked ZL7 last night on 40).  But for a 'simple'
antenna, I'm quite pleased.  

Although adding a few tens of feet more wire would give me 160 M coverage,
it works so well now I don't want to mess with it.  It's only 30-50' above
dirt.  If I had pines instead of oaks, it would work better.  ;-)

I used an 'Antenna Launcher' to get the wires over the trees and as I put it
up on a weekday when everyone was at work/school, no one knows its there.

http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html 

73,
Rick
WA6NHC



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[Elecraft] Dumb Question

[Tony McClenny]

All,
 
I apologize for asking this but simply cannot find it in the manual or
figure it out.
 
How does one transfer sound from VFO A in left ear and VFO B in right ear to
both ears (Heil Pro-Set)?  
 
I enjoy using one ear on each when using two VFO's, but would like to hear
same in both ears when using one (A) VFO and cannot reverse what I created.

 
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
 
- Tony, N3ME -

118 Ashwood Street
Bethany Beach, DE 19930-9699
(302) 539-5638
Grid:  FM28lm
  http://www.n3me.net
Elecraft K3 # 2462
 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Feature request: MON in headphones only when SPKR+PH=yes

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> I wonder if it could be done in the firmware, if it's possible, I'd
> appreciate an entry on the todo list :)

Headphone and Speaker audio share a common source (the same digital to
analog converter).  There is no a separate audio feed for headphone and
speakers (K3 Schematics package, pg 28 and 29).

What Wayne would need to do is mute the speaker (shutdown the speaker
amplifier) during transmit - and only for voice (AM, FM, SSB) modes.
However, if you notice the shutdown behavior of the speaker amplifier
it does not turn off instantly and generates a lot of distortion during
the process.  That ramp down and distortion would be very annoying.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 3/9/2012 4:59 PM, Thomas Horsten wrote:
> I guess the subject line says it all - I would like to hear my audio
> feedback in the headphones but not through the speaker, so as to not create
> distortion/feedback, I wonder if it could be done in the firmware, if it's
> possible, I'd appreciate an entry on the todo list :)
>
> Any comments/suggestions?
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[WILLIS COOKE]

I wonder how those that claim a certain efficiency for a MFJ-998 or any other 
antenna matching device are measuring the output power.  No watt meter that I 
know including the famous and antique Bird can measure power with any degree of 
accuracy unless the load is very near the nominal value (usually 50 ohms).  If 
you need a tuner, your antenna does not meet this criteria so, what are you 
using to form your opinion?  I suppose that you could compare two tuners for a 
relative efficiency by using the same transmitter and antenna and a field 
strength meter.  Of course, if you are running near the rated power, you can 
watch for smoke and get a one time opinion that the device was not efficient 
enough to survive.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: W5RDW 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner
 
Never had any reason to wonder if my MFJ-998 has more than normal loss. It
hasn't let any smoke out of the cabinet yet! I use to run a Drake L-7 thru
it, but now use the KPA500 all the time and have retired the Drake.

> /Most of the MFJ tuners tend to rank pretty low in that respect./ 

Dave, I'd be interested in reading about the info you have on the MFJ tuner
loss.

-
Roger W5RDW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/high-power-tuner-tp7314904p7359740.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Bill]

I didn't mention the RF on the feedline, as I am in the habit of choking 
all feedlines coming into the house.

Easy:  10 turns of coax 6 or 8 inches diameter and cable tied just 
outside the wall - prior to the grounding panels. Use one of the "flex" 
type cables and it will be easy.

Bill W2BLC
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[WILLIS COOKE]

When I got on the air at this QTH in 2006 I installed a Carolina Windom from 
Radio Works.  It is about 40 feet high and fed with a short piece of RG8X.  I 
thought it a great antenna and worked some contests and a lot of DX.  Later, I 
installed a 30 foot vertical with one radial and found it much superior on 40 
and 15.  Then I installed a 65 ft tower  with a 3 element SteppIR 30/40 and 
worked DXCC in 31 days.  Then I installed a 40 and 80 inverted Vee fed with a 
common coax.  Then I installed an Inverted L with an 80 meter trap for 80 and 
160.  The Carolina Windom is still up, but it is not the preferred antenna for 
any band at any distance.  I find that the OCF is the best antenna only if it 
is your only antenna, but I have not compared it to a Buddy Pole.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke 
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: Bill 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2012 3:50 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] OCF antennas
 
I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF - it is 
coax fed, making easy routing of the feedline. The K3's ATU handles it 
fine (as does my TS-480 SAT).

Dimensions for the version I use:  88' on one leg and 44 ' on the other 
leg. For a center insulator/balun I use the 
http://www.balundesigns.com/servlet/the-75/OCF-balun-4-cln-1/Detail   I 
use #12 stranded insulated wire (not house wire) available from any of 
several ham distributors.

Works FB for what I do with it, which is mostly rag chew on 40 and 75 
SSB. However, I have used on the higher bands with good success also. 
The pattern does get somewhat directional as you move up from the 
primary design frequency. If you have room for a couple of them at right 
angles - that might be of an advantage.

Bill W2BLC
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Joel Black]

I do not have a G5RV, but I do have a "Mystery Antenna" that is 
similar.  They both have a "stub" line made of ladder line.  The problem 
with the ladder line is that it radiates RF so you must must must get it 
away from anything susceptible to RF.  Mine is not far enough away from 
the shack and I get into various items regularly on 30m and higher.  
Once my hexbeam gets back in the air, I should be okay.

I have always read that you will need a tuner on anything other than 20m 
with this antenna - the same is true for the mystery antenna.

I have the KAT3.  I bought it after my LDG tuner quit working.  I bought 
it on the recommendation of the reflector and I'm glad I did.  It tunes 
so many more bands than the LDG tuned.  You should have no problems with 
the KAT3 and the G5RV.

Joel - W4JBB

On 3/9/2012 1:38 AM, raro...@comcast.net wrote:
> Hi there--
>
> Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what
> experiences K3 users have with this antenna. Is an external tuner
> necessary? Is internal KAT3 up to the task of taming this wire?
>
> Any hints will be helpful
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Re: [Elecraft] high-power tuner

[W5RDW]

Never had any reason to wonder if my MFJ-998 has more than normal loss. It
hasn't let any smoke out of the cabinet yet! I use to run a Drake L-7 thru
it, but now use the KPA500 all the time and have retired the Drake.

> /Most of the MFJ tuners tend to rank pretty low in that respect./ 

Dave, I'd be interested in reading about the info you have on the MFJ tuner
loss.

-
Roger W5RDW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/high-power-tuner-tp7314904p7359740.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Tony Estep]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Bill  wrote:
> I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF...

The OCF has advantages and can work very well. I have had good success
with several versions, and in fact published an article in QST about
one such setup (March 2006). It's important to note that any OCF
antenna will have common-mode current flowing on the feedline, which
will produce RF in the shack. With modest power this is usually not a
problem, but as power goes up, the effects get worse.

If the antenna is coax-fed, the common-mode RF can be choked off with
a 1:1 balun or an isolator. If it's fed with balanced line, it should
go to a balun and thence to a coax link to the transmitter, and that
coax should have provisions for choking the RF. The cold side of the
isolator should be grounded to a good RF ground (i.e. not just a
ground rod or water pipe -- ideally, a counterpoise or radial system,
or other really good RF sink). The feedline will radiate, and this
should be included in your EZNEC or other model when determining the
radiation pattern.

Tony KT0NY




-- 
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 dual-watch working (ahead of schedule!)

[Sam Morgan]

the big difference with using the VE7CC pgm to access the VE7CC cluster or
using DXLabs spot collector to access the VE7CC cluster

With VE&CC pgm
if you click on a spot which has a split info entered in the comment field
in VE7CC the K3 will change VFO A to the spotted frequency
but does not change the K3's VFO B to the split frequency
nor does it place the K3 into split operations


if you are using DXLabs spotcollector  and commander
and click on that same spot
the K3 shifts the VFO A to the DX frequency
it also changes the VFO B to the split frequency
and places the K3 into split operation
also
if you have the 2nd receiver installed VFO B is also placed in sub

hope I said all that correctly

GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 3/9/2012 2:55 PM, Jim McDonald wrote:
> I agree and wanted to mention that you can choose any telnet cluster in the
> Configuration-->Cluster (Telnet) list.  I prefer a node that uses VE7CC's
> node software, CC Cluster.  Telnet clusters are much more configurable than
> web clusters and send spots real-time rather that at pre-set intervals.
>
> I use CC User to feed the DXLab Suite, http://www.dxlabsuite.com/ , but CC
> User used standalone can interface with a K3 (it's in the Port Setup
> window).
>
> http://www.ve7cc.net/
>
> 73, Jim N7US
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[Elecraft] [K3] Feature request: MON in headphones only when SPKR+PH=yes

[Thomas Horsten]

I guess the subject line says it all - I would like to hear my audio
feedback in the headphones but not through the speaker, so as to not create
distortion/feedback, I wonder if it could be done in the firmware, if it's
possible, I'd appreciate an entry on the todo list :)

Any comments/suggestions?

73, Thomas M0TRN
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[Elecraft] OCF antennas

[Bill]

I have found the easiest single antenna to utilize is the OCF - it is 
coax fed, making easy routing of the feedline. The K3's ATU handles it 
fine (as does my TS-480 SAT).

Dimensions for the version I use:  88' on one leg and 44 ' on the other 
leg. For a center insulator/balun I use the 
http://www.balundesigns.com/servlet/the-75/OCF-balun-4-cln-1/Detail   I 
use #12 stranded insulated wire (not house wire) available from any of 
several ham distributors.

Works FB for what I do with it, which is mostly rag chew on 40 and 75 
SSB. However, I have used on the higher bands with good success also. 
The pattern does get somewhat directional as you move up from the 
primary design frequency. If you have room for a couple of them at right 
angles - that might be of an advantage.

Bill W2BLC
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Mike Morrow]

> I have used duel band dipoles too but found them harder to get set up
> properly.

That's because they're fighting each other! [duel vs. dual, :-)]

I use a six-band resonant dipole for my (portable) operation.  That's the
best thing I've found in 33 years of experimenting.  But my version works
for multi-band ops only when access to the antenna's various insulator
and jumper assemblies is possible.

73,
Mike / KK5F 
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[Elecraft] Regarding G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Dick Roth]

To all who responded to my query, both on and off list, I thank you.
Years ago I built all my wire antennas from the "parts bin", but
honestly, I've grown fat and lazy.

This Reflector is one of the best reasons to own an Elecraft product
besides superior engineering and execution.  The brain trust that
resides on this Reflector is absolutely tops!  The sense of community
here is terrific spurred on by the mother ship.  Having spent years in
industry paying for tech support from various tech vendors I can say
that the support provided from Aptos (without charge mind you) is
superior to any and all the support provided from the many vendors I've
dealt with.  Way to go Elecraft!!

-- 
73 de Dick, ka1oz
Elecraft K3/100
GAP Titan-DX Antenna




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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Fred Townsend]

I have used a number of G5RVs, both with and without balun. I carry one in
my 'go-kit' because it goes up quickly and comes down easily. I have used
duel band dipoles too but found them harder to get set up properly. The
spacers would tend to get snagged in trees and made them harder to coil up
without getting a birds nest.  The K3 with internal antenna tuner likes it
too. I have used them without a tuner on other rigs with some difficulty on
10 and 20 meters. I really like the antenna on 80 since it is
omnidirectional and smaller than a 80M dipole.
73
Fred, AE6QL

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Roth
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 10:39 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

Hi there--

Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what experiences
K3 users have with this antenna.  Is an external tuner necessary?  Is
internal ATU3 up to the task of taming this wire?

Any hints will be helpful
--
73 de Dick, ka1oz
Elecraft K3/100
GAP Titan-DX Antenna

PS:  Sent twice before but didn't see it posted, first with digital
signature affixed and the body as HTML and then without the signature.
This one is plain text w/out signature.



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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 dual-watch working (ahead of schedule!)

[Jim McDonald]

I agree and wanted to mention that you can choose any telnet cluster in the
Configuration-->Cluster (Telnet) list.  I prefer a node that uses VE7CC's
node software, CC Cluster.  Telnet clusters are much more configurable than
web clusters and send spots real-time rather that at pre-set intervals.

I use CC User to feed the DXLab Suite, http://www.dxlabsuite.com/ , but CC
User used standalone can interface with a K3 (it's in the Port Setup
window).

http://www.ve7cc.net/ 

73, Jim N7US



-Original Message-

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Wayne Burdick  wrote:

> Now I'm looking for my first DX split QSO with dual watch. What's the 
> best DX spotting web site?
==
Wayne, the gold standard spotting setup is the VE7CC program. Go to his
website and download his application. It is a cluster client that eliminates
the telnet connection, formats your outgoing commands automatically, and
parses and formats the spots. You can see 'em by band, mode, sorted by time,
call sign, etc. It displays CQ zone, name of country, whether or not the DX
uses LOTW, and lots of other stuff.

The split-operating DXpeditions of the moment are A35YZ, 3C0E, PJ7PT,
VP2MOM, ZD7XF, TG7/NC2N, and some others. Plenty of stuff to shoot at.

When I first got a K2 about 7 years ago I used it, together with a wire out
the window and into the backyard tree, to work DXCC, which turned out not to
be hard to do with that great radio. It's great that the KX3 has dual watch
because it's just essential to work split when you have a pipsqueak signal.

Good DX!
Tony KT0NY



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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[riese-k3djc]

good antenna but another choice may be the off center fed dipole
build it or check into the carolina windom
http://www.hamuniverse.com/k4iwlnewwindom.html
and others

Bob K3DJC  
On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 01:33:04 -0500 Dick Roth  writes:
> Hi there--
> 
> Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what
> experiences K3 users have with this antenna.  Is an external tuner
> necessary?  Is internal ATU3 up to the task of taming this wire?
> 
> Any hints will be helpful!
> 
> -- 
> 73 de Dick, ka1oz
> Elecraft K3/100
> GAP Titan-DX Antenna
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] K3, CM-500 oddity, a follow up

[Don Wilhelm]

Greg posted these two links on 03/04/12.  Other than that they are right 
angle plugs, I know nothing about them.

http://www.pchcables.com/hogmrian2mas.html

http://www.pchcables.com/3foan2stmato.html

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/9/2012 10:30 AM, Eugene Balinski wrote:
> I am sure that someone has mentioned this before however,
> has someone located a good source of matching plugs for the
> mic and headphone jack on the KX3?   I would like to order
> some in advance and start some projects.
>
> 73
>
> Gene K1NR
> KX3 S/N TBD   : -)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:15:06 -0500
>   Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> For those who do not understand the technicalities, I
>> would suggest that
>> the CM-500 cannot be plugged directly into the KX3 jack.
>>   The KX3 PTT is
>> on the ring connection, and the stock CM-500 connects the
>> Tip and ring
>> together for the AF connection.
>>
>> It MAY work, but it is not a certainty, the KX3 function
>> of the ring
>> contact is three-fold - PTT, UP and DWN.
>> the audio level on the ring may or may not induce one of
>> those functions
>> depending on the voltage and current.
>>
>> It would be better to create a homebrew adapter that
>> would accept the
>> CM-500 AF on the tip and ring, and connect that only to
>> the tip of the
>> KX3 jack, and at the same time add a small box with a
>> pushbutton for PTT
>> and also pushbuttons (with the appropriate resistors) for
>> UP and DWN).
>>
>> In other words, the stock CM-500 *may* work, but it may
>> not depending on
>> the levels presented at the ring connection.
>>
>> This situation may also be present in microphone designed
>> primarily  for
>> computer use - they may be OK, but if they create funny
>> PTT or UP or DWN
>> conditions, blame it on the connection between tip and
>> ring on the
>> microphone jack.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 3/8/2012 3:46 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
 As for the CM-500, I'd like to know if it is the tip,
>> or ring, on the
 1/8 inch plug that is the actual mic audio lead. I
>> will have to try
 one, or the other, to see.
>>> The answer is quite simple ... the tip and ring of the
>> CM-500 mic plug
>>> are connected together.
>>>
>>> The supplied battery box has no connection to the ring
>> of the mic
>>> (3.5mm jack).  Tip of the jack is connected to tip and
>> ring of the
>>> 3.5mm plug via a 1 uF capacitor.  The positive side of
>> the battery
>>> (+3.0V) is connected to the tip of the 3.5mm jack with
>> a 2.2K Ohm
>>> resistor.  The negative side of the battery is
>> connected to sleeve
>>> (common/ground) of both plug and jack (input/output).
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>   ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Matt Murphy]

I was using a G5RV but noticed that it performed poorly on 10 and 15m.  I
switched to a nonresonant dipole of similar overall length, fed with 450
Ohm ladder line, which works noticeably better on 10 and 15m (I think this
is due to loss from the 50' of coax I had been using to feed the G5RV).

The K3 has a filter designed to prevent IF output in the transmitted
signal, which will heat up if there is excessive reflected power on nearby
frequencies such as 40m (even if you have the load tuned to a 1:1 match
with the built in antenna tuner).  I found this out when I loaded up the
nonresonant dipole on 40m and smoke soon began coming out of the K3.

Upon further investigation, I discovered that there was a suspect PL-259
involved (not going to buy the DXE Crimped pre-made jumpers anymore).  Dale
at Elecraft advised that he'd avoid attempting to tune anything over a 5:1
or 6:1 SWR on 40m without risking destroying the filter again.

So even after replacing the jumper I have opted to use an external antenna
tuner when using the nonresonant dipole on 40m.  I had used the G5RV
extensively on 40m but never really paid attention to what SWR it was
presenting to the rig w/o the tuner.  All I can conclude from this is
either that it was under 6:1 or that Dale's estimate of a 6:1 SWR was a bit
cautious.

I have suggested a firmware update that would reduce forward power on 40m
in the presence of high reflected power, but is probably not all that high
on the priority list for Elecraft.  Another option is to remove the filter,
at which point I would imagine that any load that the KAT3 can match is
going to be fine.

73,
Matt NQ6N



On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:11 AM, W4GRJ  wrote:

> I use a G5RV mainly on MARS freqs. From 3.2 MHz to 30 MHz using the k3 and
>  internal ATU with great success. Never found a frequency it would not
> easily tune.
>
> Jack
> W4GRJ / AFA4DG
>
> On Mar 9, 2012, at 1:33, Dick Roth  wrote:
>
> > Hi there--
> >
> > Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what
> > experiences K3 users have with this antenna.  Is an external tuner
> > necessary?  Is internal ATU3 up to the task of taming this wire?
> >
> > Any hints will be helpful!
> >
> > --
> > 73 de Dick, ka1oz
> > Elecraft K3/100
> > GAP Titan-DX Antenna
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Rick Prather]

I started off with a normal G5RV and the tuner handled it fine.  But, it works 
better as an all band antenna with the tuner if you do what I did and eliminate 
the matching section (which only matches 20M's) and replace it with ladder or 
window line down to a balun or at least a current choke outside your shack with 
a short length of coax to the rig.

This set up lets the KAT3 comfortably tune all bands except 160. 

Mine is at 35' and I worked 175 countries last year with the barefoot K3.  Not 
bad for a minimal antenna.

Rick
K6LE

On 3/8/2012, at 10:38 , Dick Roth  wrote:

> Hi there--
> 
> Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what
> experiences K3 users have with this antenna.  Is an external tuner
> necessary?  Is internal ATU3 up to the task of taming this wire?
> 
> Any hints will be helpful
> -- 
> 73 de Dick, ka1oz
> Elecraft K3/100
> GAP Titan-DX Antenna
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Re: [Elecraft] DX Clusters

[Tim Tucker]

If you would like a visual DX Spot/Cluster, check out this one:
http://www.worldwidedx.com/dxspot.php.  It taps into the DX Cluster and
maps out the last 25 stations heard.  You can click on the map markers to
see more information or look at the list below.  Clicking on the callsign
does a callsign lookup.  While looking at the page, just hit "refresh" on
your browser to load an updated map.

Tim

On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Tony Morgan <1desertdwel...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Wayne,
> Try W6RFU in Santa Barbara (UCSB)
>
> 128.111.56.240:7300
>
> 73,
>
> Tony W7GO
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-- 
-
Owner, worldwidedx.com
AE6LX, Amateur Radio
NNN0ITA, Navy MARS
NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern CA Director Assistant for Training, Navy MARS
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[W4GRJ]

I use a G5RV mainly on MARS freqs. From 3.2 MHz to 30 MHz using the k3 and  
internal ATU with great success. Never found a frequency it would not easily 
tune.

Jack
W4GRJ / AFA4DG

On Mar 9, 2012, at 1:33, Dick Roth  wrote:

> Hi there--
> 
> Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what
> experiences K3 users have with this antenna.  Is an external tuner
> necessary?  Is internal ATU3 up to the task of taming this wire?
> 
> Any hints will be helpful!
> 
> -- 
> 73 de Dick, ka1oz
> Elecraft K3/100
> GAP Titan-DX Antenna
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[Keith Heimbold]

I am probably the last person in the world to comment on this but in my. very 
limited experience as a ham I have found resonant dipoles to be superior to a 
G5RV. I have used properly cut dipoles that I made myself for 20m and 40m and 
they worked much better than the G5RV I had.  You may want to consider multiple 
resonant dipoles in parallel separated by plastic clothes hangers. One of my 
old Elmer's had one of those and he did very well with it.

Just a thought from a total newbie. 

Keith
AG6AZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:56 AM, raro...@comcast.net wrote:

> Hi there-- 
> 
> Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what 
> experiences K3 users have with this antenna. Is an external tuner 
> necessary? Is internal KAT3 up to the task of taming this wire? 
> 
> Any hints will be helpful 
> -- 
> 73 de Dick, ka1oz 
> Elecraft K3/100 
> GAP Titan-DX Antenna 
> 
> PS...Tried sending via my gmail account, but haven't seen it posted.  I 
> appologize for any wasted bandwidth.
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Re: [Elecraft] Understanding the KX3 Block Diagram

[W8JH]

And when can I order the Elecraft whole house solar kit?

I can be patient for a week or two if necessary.

73,

-
73,

Joe, W8JH
K3 1713, KPA 132
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] KX3 dual-watch working (ahead of schedule!)

[Wayne Burdick]

Moe,

The 1.5 kHz roofing filter will still be used for very small splits  
(typical of a DX station requesting "up 1" or "up 2" in CW mode  
pileups). Beyond that the roofing filters are turned off.

I'll post a detailed explanation of the filter bandwidths when I get a  
chance.

Wayne

On Mar 9, 2012, at 4:31 AM, AB8XA wrote:

> I read the KX3 filter option has 1,000 Hz and 3,000 Hz filters that  
> give a choice of 500 or 1,500 Hz filtering in CW and 3,000 Hz in  
> SSB. An explanation of how that happens would help.
>
> 3,000 Hz filtering is not available in CW and 1,500 Hz is not  
> available in SSB, right?
>
> It seems to me one has to buy the KX3 filter option just to have the  
> same strong adjacent signal rejection the "normal" 3,000 Hz (2.7 kHz  
> 5-pole/2.8 kHz 8-pole) SSB bandwidth the base model K3 offers.
>
> And if I understand the end result correctly, there is no strong  
> adjacent signal rejection with KX3 dual-watch on like there is with  
> the K3 with narrow filters on both the main and sub receivers. In  
> most cases, the bandwidth will be 15 kHz (CW split > 1,500 Hz).
>
> Is that correct?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Moe - AB8XA
> Elecraft KX1 #2484, Fists #13020, SKCC #7460,
> FPQRP #2617,  NAQCC #5352, QRP-ARCI #14326
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 8, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> There's one nice thing about late hardware: the firmware gets better.
>>
>> Lyle and I just added Dual Watch to the KX3, which works amazingly
>> well. At present the VFOs can be separated by up to 15 kHz, but in
>> theory we can go to 30 kHz with the present DSP implementation.
>>
>> Now I'm looking for my first DX split QSO with dual watch. What's the
>> best DX spotting web site?
>>
>> Wayne,
>> N6KR
>>
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[Elecraft] G5RV antenna experience on K3

[raroth7]

Hi there-- 

Am considering putting up a g5rv antenna and was wondering what 
experiences K3 users have with this antenna. Is an external tuner 
necessary? Is internal KAT3 up to the task of taming this wire? 

Any hints will be helpful 
-- 
73 de Dick, ka1oz 
Elecraft K3/100 
GAP Titan-DX Antenna 

PS...Tried sending via my gmail account, but haven't seen it posted.  I 
appologize for any wasted bandwidth.
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Re: [Elecraft] What Happened to the KAT500

[W0UCE]

If the Elecraft reflector was a Dear Abby Column in the newspaper, my letter
would read:

 

Dear Abby:

The best of the best ham radio gear manufacturers recently had a letter in
your column stating

We revised the PCB one more time to make it easier to manufacture.  

Should have these "final" (we hope) boards in by next week. If all  

goes well, we'll be down to one final impediment: me. I have to revise  

the sheet metal drawings.

Sorry for the delay.

Wayne

 

Abby, I am ready to place my order as soon as Mr. Wayne says "OK"  What
should I do

in the meantime? 

Signed

Anxious in NC

 

Dear Anxious in NC:

All good things come to he who waits.  Be patient, Elecraft will provide.

 

88,

Abby 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 dual-watch working (ahead of schedule!)

[W0FK]

Thanks Wayne! I can't wait to get my hands on the radio.  

I like to use DX Summit:   http://www.dxsummit.fi/DxSpots.aspx  
http://www.dxsummit.fi/DxSpots.aspx   

You can look at spots per band, do pointed or general searches, etc.

73, Lou, W0FK


wayne burdick wrote
> 
> There's one nice thing about late hardware: the firmware gets better.
> 
> Lyle and I just added Dual Watch to the KX3, which works amazingly  
> well. At present the VFOs can be separated by up to 15 kHz, but in  
> theory we can go to 30 kHz with the present DSP implementation.
> 
> Now I'm looking for my first DX split QSO with dual watch. What's the  
> best DX spotting web site?
> 
> Wayne,
> N6KR
> 
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-
St. Louis, MO
K3 #2513, P3 #620
KX3 *On Order*
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500??

[Vic K2VCO]

My guess is that this was about an hour after sunset in California, and just 
before 
sunrise in ZS. I have noticed really good conditions on this path and this 
time, even with 
my low-ish dipole on 40 -- apparently signals arrive at high angles. The 
opening is pretty 
short, so Wayne must have hit it just right. The opening is there on 80, too.

On 3/8/2012 5:55 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> A couple of days ago I worked ZS1JX on 7.001 using the KX3. I was
> running 12 watts to a random wire antenna just a few feet off the
> roof, but we had a solid, 5-minute QSO. Doesn't get much better than
> this!
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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-- 
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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