[Elecraft] FT-5000

[Joseph Trombino, Jr]

Reading a bit further in the review on the FT-5000 they mention noticeable 
noise of a relay clicking during CW QSK operation (probably the antenna 
changeover relay).

I can't imagine paying $5K for a radio that produces noticeable clicks on 
CW/QSK.

And to think I paid less than half of that for my K3/100 that is absolutely 
silent during CW QSK operation.

Guess Yaesu doesn't design antenna switching networks using PIN diodes. I 
wonder who got the design right??? (grin).

Back to my silent CW/QSK on my lowly K3.

73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am
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[Elecraft] FT-5000

[Bob Locher]

It surely looks like it will be a nice radio some day if you like a big 
bruiser with loads of knobs. I don't. Yaesu has a design philosophy of 
"when in doubt, add a knob". But that's OK. I don't plan to buy one.

I would cheerfully bet a significant sum of money that the radio will 
not be available at the very earliest before July of next year, and more 
likely 2011. So why is it being advertised now? It is an attempt to stop 
the K3 parade - to freeze sales. The term in the software industry is 
"Vaporware" and for our European brethren, "Vapourware". And it serves 
the same purpose.

Yaesu did the same for the FT-9000 - it was announced and advertised a 
year or more in advance of delivery in order to slow down the Icom 7800. 
(And I bet the FT-9000 will now quietly go away. The 7800 is eating the 
9000's lunch, and dealers hate the 9000 order policies.)

On the other hand Yaesu was shipping FT-2000's very shortly after it was 
announced. Why the difference? The FT1000 was selling well and Yaesu did 
not want to cannibalize sales of the FT-1000 until stock was pretty well 
depleted and the FT2000 was ready. They pulled off the transition rather 
neatly.

I think it a very safe assumption to say that the photos of the FT5000 
are of one very expensively hand-built prototype that is an empty box 
inside the panels, that there are lab models of the radio that do pretty 
much meet specs, and a furious design effort going on to deliver the 
promises. I predict that the radio WILL be shown at Dayton - inside a 
screwed together acrylic box.

Actually it is a pretty simple choice - you can wait for a box of 
promises or buy a proven radio today.

73 de Bob Locher W9KNI



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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Wes Stewart]

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Bob Locher  wrote:

Actually it is a pretty simple choice - you can wait for a box of 
promises or buy a proven radio today.

I seem to remember Elecraft taking orders and shipping a year later.  I know I 
waited a year, until delivery times were down to a month, before I placed an 
order.




  
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Bob Locher]

No doubt true - but the radio WAS shipping within a few months and was 
not vaporware.

Wes Stewart wrote:
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 11/23/09, Bob Locher //* wrote:
>
>
> Actually it is a pretty simple choice - you can wait for a box of
> promises or buy a proven radio today.
>
> I seem to remember Elecraft taking orders and shipping a year later.  
> I know I waited a year, until delivery times were down to a month, 
> before I placed an order.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Guys - Let's turn down the FT-5000 discussion volume a bit and try to 
limit it to key features, performance etc. (once we learn more details. 
) we're always interested in what our competition is doing, si if you 
learn something new, please feel free to post here.

We appreciate the positive feedback on our products, service and owner 
interaction, but let's try to avoid going overboard arguing back and 
forth. Its probably causing severe email overload for most list readers. ;-)

73, Eric  WA6HHQ
List moderator
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[David Gilbert]

Plus, if I remember correctly, taking pre-orders for the K3 allowed 
Elecraft to accept partial deposits, which would have been an important 
source of capitalization for a small company ... rather than being 
merely a marketing ploy designed to subvert competition.

And yes, Elecraft continues to pre-announce other new products, but for 
the purpose of soliciting customer feedback that often results in 
changes before the product actually hits the channel.  I sincerely doubt 
that a written petition with 500 signatures delivered by couriers 
carrying AK-47's would cause Yaesu to change anything on the FTDX-5000MP 
at this point.

73,
Dave   AB7E


Bob Locher wrote:
> No doubt true - but the radio WAS shipping within a few months and was 
> not vaporware.
>
> Wes Stewart wrote:
>   
>> --- On *Mon, 11/23/09, Bob Locher //* wrote:
>>
>>
>> Actually it is a pretty simple choice - you can wait for a box of
>> promises or buy a proven radio today.
>>
>> I seem to remember Elecraft taking orders and shipping a year later.  
>> I know I waited a year, until delivery times were down to a month, 
>> before I placed an order.
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

One thing I see that looks appealing is the four position antenna selection.
It's unclear whether this is standard or an option. 

Wondered what prompted them to add this?

73,
Julius
n2wn

-
Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3#1875
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Bill W4ZV]

K9BF wrote:
> I am guessing the price tag on the new 5000 will be somewhere near $5000.
> I might be able to get my wife to go along at that price. Has anyone have
> a better idea of the cost?
> 

Only 1.5 times the cost of a better performing K3/KRX3.  The 5000's Sub RX
front end will be very inferior to that in the K3, and true diversity will
not be possible without a beat offset.  JMHO...time (maybe lots of it) will
tell.

73,  Bill

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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[lstavenhagen]

Well I dunno. From looking at the specs on the website, I can't see that the
FT-5000 is going to offer anything over and above what you can get with the
K3, really. At least nothing off the top of my head that would justify the
extra cost.

The only feature I see appearing on more rigs that I'd say Elecraft might
want to look into is the 200W final amp. This is nice because, IMO, 
- it reduces the need to go kilowatt with an outboard amp. True it's only a
doubling of the typical 100W output, but you can go for quite a while longer
without having to invest in a KW.
- more headroom for high-duty cycle modes like the digital modes. I.e. you
can go 100% duty-cycle at higher power levels than with a 100W final. 
- very very cushy duty on the final when you are driving an amplifier,
particularly one of the older dual 3-500Z amps which can require quite a bit
of drive to get to full power. You can run that higher drive level into it
all day long without having to be flat out or close to it like you sometimes
are with a 100W final into one of the "boat anchors".

It's probably a relatively low investment in R&D and parts, etc., for
Elecraft to implement too (tho maybe the size might be a problem in the
K3?). 

That'd be my suggestion as far as a good bang/buck investment Elecraft could
make.

The claimed IP3 performance of the 5000 is pretty good indeed, but I'll
believe it when I see it. Like I said a lot of these boxes are still trying
to match the K2 as far as performance hi hi.

73,
LS
W5QD


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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[lstavenhagen]

Oh and BTW,

I wouldn't make too much of the "vaporware" thing. Producing a rig of the
performance and quality level of the K3 isn't an easy or cheap undertaking
for anybody. If it were, everyone would be doing it and they'd all be being
delivered the next day after the announcement of their release and be
selling for 10 bucks hi hi. 

Like in the SW world, it's a really hard thing to do to deliver something
high quality for an acceptable price. So I'm neither surprised nor dismayed
by delays and such in new products from really anyone including Yeasu and
Elecraft. Just the nature of the beast hi.

73,
LS
W5QD
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Szabó István]

Price is on Texastowers.com.

István

Bill W4ZV wrote:
> K9BF wrote:
>   
>> I am guessing the price tag on the new 5000 will be somewhere near $5000.
>> I might be able to get my wife to go along at that price. Has anyone have
>> a better idea of the cost?
>>
>> 
>
> Only 1.5 times the cost of a better performing K3/KRX3.  The 5000's Sub RX
> front end will be very inferior to that in the K3, and true diversity will
> not be possible without a beat offset.  JMHO...time (maybe lots of it) will
> tell.
>
> 73,  Bill
>
>   



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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Phil LaMarche]

I would certainly send my K3 to Elecraft for the 200 watt upgrade.  I'm
using a IC-775DSP from a friend while my K3 is back to the factory for the 2
meter mod and what a difference in signal reports.  I have a 70 ft tower
next to a lake and if I had 200 watts, I wouldn't need a linear.  I'm
breaking pile ups with first or second call.  100 watts takes a little
longer. Honestly, I was shocked.  Using the K3 to drive my AL80B, I only use
500 watts max and that is a waste of money.

Phil 


Philip LaMarche
 
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
 
727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell 
 
www.w9dvm.com
 
K3 #1605
 
CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
 
 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of lstavenhagen
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:00 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000


Well I dunno. From looking at the specs on the website, I can't see that the
FT-5000 is going to offer anything over and above what you can get with the
K3, really. At least nothing off the top of my head that would justify the
extra cost.

The only feature I see appearing on more rigs that I'd say Elecraft might
want to look into is the 200W final amp. This is nice because, IMO,
- it reduces the need to go kilowatt with an outboard amp. True it's only a
doubling of the typical 100W output, but you can go for quite a while longer
without having to invest in a KW.
- more headroom for high-duty cycle modes like the digital modes. I.e. you
can go 100% duty-cycle at higher power levels than with a 100W final. 
- very very cushy duty on the final when you are driving an amplifier,
particularly one of the older dual 3-500Z amps which can require quite a bit
of drive to get to full power. You can run that higher drive level into it
all day long without having to be flat out or close to it like you sometimes
are with a 100W final into one of the "boat anchors".

It's probably a relatively low investment in R&D and parts, etc., for
Elecraft to implement too (tho maybe the size might be a problem in the
K3?). 

That'd be my suggestion as far as a good bang/buck investment Elecraft could
make.

The claimed IP3 performance of the 5000 is pretty good indeed, but I'll
believe it when I see it. Like I said a lot of these boxes are still trying
to match the K2 as far as performance hi hi.

73,
LS
W5QD


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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[David Christ]

These are two quite different animals with different design 
objectives.  The FT-5000 weighs 46 pounds and runs on household AC. 
The K3 weighs 8 pounds and runs off 12 VDC.  And here we bump into 
reality when it comes to 200W.  Getting 200 W out of 12 V finals 
would be a real trick if you want a clean signal. Each rig fits its 
own segment of the market, and part of the market would be happy with 
either.  I doubt that Elecraft needs to loose much sleep over the 
FT-5000.

David K0LUM

At 7:59 AM -0800 2/26/10, lstavenhagen wrote:
>Well I dunno. From looking at the specs on the website, I can't see that the
>FT-5000 is going to offer anything over and above what you can get with the
>K3, really. At least nothing off the top of my head that would justify the
>extra cost.
>
>The only feature I see appearing on more rigs that I'd say Elecraft might
>want to look into is the 200W final amp. This is nice because, IMO,
>- it reduces the need to go kilowatt with an outboard amp. True it's only a
>doubling of the typical 100W output, but you can go for quite a while longer
>without having to invest in a KW.
>- more headroom for high-duty cycle modes like the digital modes. I.e. you
>can go 100% duty-cycle at higher power levels than with a 100W final.
>- very very cushy duty on the final when you are driving an amplifier,
>particularly one of the older dual 3-500Z amps which can require quite a bit
>of drive to get to full power. You can run that higher drive level into it
>all day long without having to be flat out or close to it like you sometimes
>are with a 100W final into one of the "boat anchors".
>
>It's probably a relatively low investment in R&D and parts, etc., for
>Elecraft to implement too (tho maybe the size might be a problem in the
>K3?).
>
>That'd be my suggestion as far as a good bang/buck investment Elecraft could
>make.
>
>The claimed IP3 performance of the 5000 is pretty good indeed, but I'll
>believe it when I see it. Like I said a lot of these boxes are still trying
>to match the K2 as far as performance hi hi.
>
>73,
>LS
>W5QD
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Wes Stewart]

Probably not to your ham neighbors who have fewer IMD products to suffer.

If Elecraft, or anyone else, offers 200W without going to 28-50V FET finals, 
I'm not interested.

--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Phil LaMarche  wrote:

> Using the K3 to
> drive my AL80B, I only use
> 500 watts max and that is a waste of money.
> 
> Phil 



  
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Bob - W0GI]

It looks like the price will be between $5500 and $6300.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0355.html

In that it has a 9mHz first IF with a 300Hz roofing filter available, it
looks like it will be a very good radio.

That said, I don't see why we would compare it to the K3. It's a big heavy
radio, with a lot of knobs.  Some people like big radios with lots of knobs.
I still like my Mark-V for SSB and even CW when the bands aren't crowded.
But the K3 blocking is so superior to the Mark-V, that for pile-ups it is
king.

Like the Mark-V, the FT5000 will have a lot of convenience features. As I
figure out the K3 programmers reference, I will be adding things I want,
like IF/Shift/NR presets through macros for the K3. I think that is fun,
others just want buttons on the radio, and don't want to mess with macros.

Performance wise, the K3 is on top, but it is also a very technical radio.
Some items like AGC and NR have a lot of configuration available. I think
that's a good thing, but others just want to push a button, and will settle
for a good compromise.

I don't have any pressing desire for an FT-5000, but I could buy a used one
a few years from now to replace the Mark-V, once the bugs are worked out,
and it doesn't cost a lot of extra money.

That said, the K3 will be in my shack for a long time. It does everything I
need very well. The Mark-V is just a toy I still like to operate, but it
doesn't do anything better then the K3, other then 200w, but that isn't a
big factor. It just has lots of buttons, and some convenience. :>)

I personaly think a comparison is apples and oranges. Small portable radio
with low current draw vs big, heavy radio that requires an AC power supply.

 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Hector Padron]

The FTDX-5000 will never be a better radio that our K3's but indeed is a very 
promising receiver because of the adittion of new real roofing filters for 15, 
6  and 3Khz as standard installation at the first IF instead of the poor 
performance MCF (monolitic ceramic filter) that they have been using at the 
FT950 and FT-2000,it look like finally Yaesu has given a step forward in 
receivers design to improve performance.
 
AD4C
 


"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Bob - W0GI  wrote:


From: Bob - W0GI 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 5:03 PM



It looks like the price will be between $5500 and $6300.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/0355.html

In that it has a 9mHz first IF with a 300Hz roofing filter available, it
looks like it will be a very good radio.

That said, I don't see why we would compare it to the K3. It's a big heavy
radio, with a lot of knobs.  Some people like big radios with lots of knobs.
I still like my Mark-V for SSB and even CW when the bands aren't crowded.
But the K3 blocking is so superior to the Mark-V, that for pile-ups it is
king.

Like the Mark-V, the FT5000 will have a lot of convenience features. As I
figure out the K3 programmers reference, I will be adding things I want,
like IF/Shift/NR presets through macros for the K3. I think that is fun,
others just want buttons on the radio, and don't want to mess with macros.

Performance wise, the K3 is on top, but it is also a very technical radio.
Some items like AGC and NR have a lot of configuration available. I think
that's a good thing, but others just want to push a button, and will settle
for a good compromise.

I don't have any pressing desire for an FT-5000, but I could buy a used one
a few years from now to replace the Mark-V, once the bugs are worked out,
and it doesn't cost a lot of extra money.

That said, the K3 will be in my shack for a long time. It does everything I
need very well. The Mark-V is just a toy I still like to operate, but it
doesn't do anything better then the K3, other then 200w, but that isn't a
big factor. It just has lots of buttons, and some convenience. :>)

I personaly think a comparison is apples and oranges. Small portable radio
with low current draw vs big, heavy radio that requires an AC power supply.


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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Nick - VE3EY]

It is nice for Yaesu to finally do something that Ten-Tec and Elecraft have
been doing for years.  Though they want twice the amount of money for that
big nice radio.  I don't know nothing about how the R&D investment works and
how they come up with the pricing, but in my opinion, at this stage this
still makes them technology followers - not the leaders.

Even their QST add clearly indicates that: "The answer"

When K3 got announced it was a quantum leap ahead of my existing MKV which
was a good radio (filled with Inrad filters) for its time.  Investing a
'few' extra grand in addition to what I got for my MKV was worth for me
given the additional value K3 brought home.

Now looking at FTDX5000, some specs look great and I would love to have a
nice looking radio such as this one, but for me the cost does not justify
it.

I still think Yaesu will sell lots of those.

Perhaps it would have been a different story if this was a direct sampling
radio..

73,  Nick
ve3ey



On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:44 AM, David Christ  wrote:

> These are two quite different animals with different design
> objectives.  The FT-5000 weighs 46 pounds and runs on household AC.
> The K3 weighs 8 pounds and runs off 12 VDC.  And here we bump into
> reality when it comes to 200W.  Getting 200 W out of 12 V finals
> would be a real trick if you want a clean signal. Each rig fits its
> own segment of the market, and part of the market would be happy with
> either.  I doubt that Elecraft needs to loose much sleep over the
> FT-5000.
>
> David K0LUM
>
> At 7:59 AM -0800 2/26/10, lstavenhagen wrote:
> >Well I dunno. From looking at the specs on the website, I can't see that
> the
> >FT-5000 is going to offer anything over and above what you can get with
> the
> >K3, really. At least nothing off the top of my head that would justify the
> >extra cost.
> >
> >The only feature I see appearing on more rigs that I'd say Elecraft might
> >want to look into is the 200W final amp. This is nice because, IMO,
> >- it reduces the need to go kilowatt with an outboard amp. True it's only
> a
> >doubling of the typical 100W output, but you can go for quite a while
> longer
> >without having to invest in a KW.
> >- more headroom for high-duty cycle modes like the digital modes. I.e. you
> >can go 100% duty-cycle at higher power levels than with a 100W final.
> >- very very cushy duty on the final when you are driving an amplifier,
> >particularly one of the older dual 3-500Z amps which can require quite a
> bit
> >of drive to get to full power. You can run that higher drive level into it
> >all day long without having to be flat out or close to it like you
> sometimes
> >are with a 100W final into one of the "boat anchors".
> >
> >It's probably a relatively low investment in R&D and parts, etc., for
> >Elecraft to implement too (tho maybe the size might be a problem in the
> >K3?).
> >
> >That'd be my suggestion as far as a good bang/buck investment Elecraft
> could
> >make.
> >
> >The claimed IP3 performance of the 5000 is pretty good indeed, but I'll
> >believe it when I see it. Like I said a lot of these boxes are still
> trying
> >to match the K2 as far as performance hi hi.
> >
> >73,
> >LS
> >W5QD
> >
> >
> >--
> >View this message in context:
> >http://n2.nabble.com/FT-5000-tp4052723p4639973.html
> >Sent from the [HAM] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[lstavenhagen]

I've always been a no-frills type when it comes to rigs, so it's hard for me
to see the appeal of the fancier features of the rigs from the Big Three. So
it's hard for me to come up with things they offer that Elecraft doesn't
that would appeal to me to make me choose theirs rather than Elecraft.

But it strikes me as mostly creature-comforts that make the big rigs
appealing rather than just good basic performance. I don't think there's a
rig out there that exceeds the performance of the K3's RX period at the
current time? Much less for only about 2 grand.

It's probably things like computer interfaces - SDR capabilities - and
support for all the various digital modes etc., that maybe Wayne and Eric
might have the most concern about with the competition. 

As for me, even my K2 is a stunning upgrade in RX performance over
everything I've tried from other manufacturers and I even built the little
guy myself as my very first electronic anything kit. Wound the toroids
myself too. And it still works better for me than anything else I've tried
to date 

So the K3 I can only imagine what it'd be like to have a rig of that
caliber.

So as far as making any useful suggestions I'm unfortunately out of ideas at
the moment...

LS
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Al Lorona]

> But it strikes me as mostly creature-comforts that make the big rigs
> appealing rather than just good basic performance.

The other night I was talking to a ham in Nevada who is an accomplished DXer 
and contester, who was really "trying to like" the K3 but just couldn't get 
over the "plain looks" of it. He'd seen one in person but wasn't impressed by 
the "boxy box". His head told him that the K3 was a better rig, but his heart 
is still with the FT-1e6 type of radio.

I told him straight out he wouldn't be happy with a K3. Because a lot of guys 
are seduced by the cute, sculptured body of the Japanese rigs that looks like 
they just poured plastic and metal into a Jello mold of nooks and crannies. 
They can't resist eye candy like lots of blue lights, gobs of silk-screening 
makeup and asymmetrical pink buttons.

Any 50-something will tell a younger man contemplating marriage that looks 
aren't everything. What really counts is inside that "box", and whether she can 
withstand the rigors of raising a family over the long haul. But, alas, some 
men are suckers for a pretty face and a bubbly personality, even with all 
of its intractable flaws underneath.
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Wes Stewart]

I realize this is already OT and making any critical comments about K3s is 
dangerous in this forum, but how can you say this?

Are there some published data on the FT5000 somewhere that prove this?  I don't 
know anything about Yaesus, the last one I owned was labeled Henry Tempo One 
(FT200) and I'm not here to defend them but until data are available, who knows?

But if one wants to guess, it's practically guaranteed that the transmit IMD 
performance will be far superior in the FT.  If that's the case and we want to 
use that as a criteria (I think we should) then it can be argued that the 
FT2000 is "better" than the K3.

If you can insert a mono plug into the audio output jack on the FT without 
blowing the amplifier chip, does that make *it* better?

How about if it has fewer internal birdies?  What if it's not deaf on 10 and 6 
meters?

Personally, I'm reasonably happy with my K3 and I'm not interested in the 
FT5000 (although the new Kenwood tease might be a different story) but the K3 
still has warts.  And it appears that it's *done* at least for now, as I 
suspect the P3 has all of the focus these days.

Wes  N7WS

--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Hector Padron  wrote:

> The FTDX-5000 will never be a better
> radio that our K3's...[snip]


  
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[k6rb]

I've been a CW proponent for 52 years, now, and have done my share of
DXing, contesting, and rag chewing. I just sold two FT-1000s (one D; one
non-D) that I've been using for about 10 years in an SO2R station. I
replaced them with a pair of K3s. If I did a time-motion study of my
actions during a contest, my hand would more than likely be either on the
keyboard or the VFO A knob. What matters, though, is what I'm hearing. In
the recent ARRL DX contest, the signals just sounded more crisp and
discernible with the K3 compared with my FT-1000s. Only when I had four or
more JAs piling up on me was it sometimes hard to pull out a call. I
probably operate 99 percent CW, 0.8 percent RTTY, and 0.2 percent SSB. I
don't need AM, FM, full coverage, etc. And, I didn't have to pay for them,
either. Try that with an IC or FT radio. In the end, though, we're all
individuals. One of my buddies who owns a K3 and IC-7800 told me he likes
the Icom better. I hope so. It cost him $7,000 more. I've never used a
panadaptor, but I'm looking forward to playing with a P3. After clearing
the space taken up by the two FT-1000s, I certainly have the room for one
(or two) of them.

73,

Rob K6RB

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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Don Wilhelm]

Wes,

Yes, the K3 does have a few warts that have to be worked out.  It will 
never be "finished" as far as things like the audio amp/mono plug 
problem and similar hardware related problems.  As a parallel, when 
there is a particular problem identified on the K2, K1, KX1, or any 
other Elecraft product, that problem is addressed even though that 
product may be "finished".  What  I believe "finished" means to Elecraft 
is that no further options or upgrades will be offered other than those 
that are already on the books.  Problems will always be addressed, and 
usually as quickly as possible.  "Finished" is not the same as 
'obsolete' or "no longer supported".  After 10 years, Elecraft customers 
have not heard anything about 'obsolete' or 'no longer supported'.  I 
don't worry about my Elecraft K2 SN 00020, but I do have concerns about 
my Yaesu FT-900 or Yaesu 847 should something go wrong with either of 
them - I guess I just scrap them out or parts.

I am not certain how long that situation will last, but from all 
indications I have it will be a long time into the future.  I have no 
"inside information" on this subject, but that comment is based on my 
opinion formed after a long and close relationship working with Wayne 
and Eric and all the rest of the Elecraft crew.  If there is any planned 
product obsolescence, I have not heard anything about it.

Yes, the Elecraft resource focus is on the P3 at the moment causing a 
momentary lull in the K3 activity, but the K3 "list" is still present 
and is being worked at bit by bit.

73,
Don W3FPR

Wes Stewart wrote:
> Personally, I'm reasonably happy with my K3 and I'm not interested in the 
> FT5000 (although the new Kenwood tease might be a different story) but the K3 
> still has warts.  And it appears that it's *done* at least for now, as I 
> suspect the P3 has all of the focus these days.
>
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Bob - W0GI]

<<<
I realize this is already OT and making any critical comments about K3s is
dangerous in this forum, but how can you say this?
>>

I don't agree at all with that. Critical comments are made all the time, and
the issues are usually fixed. 

Some of the comments like "the K3 is noisy" are operator error in my
opinion, and that subject brings up replies that may not sit well with some.

Look at this page. "K3 Alerts, Enhancements and Application Notes". I never
saw a page like that for the Mark-V or the Kenwood TS-950SD that I had
before it. Kenwood did at least have the mods available on paper, while
Yaesu never admits that anything is ever wrong with their rigs.

Like every rig I have owned for the last 35 years of being a ham, the K3 has
issues. The good part, is Elecraft actualy admits to, and fixes problems.

My original Yaesu FT-817 blew the drivers and finals like many others.
Yaesu's response was, "There is no problem, don't beleive what you read on
the internet". Rather then deal with them, I replaced the drivers and finals
with heavier Mitsubishi mosfets. Now I can run that FT-817 into a dummy load
at 5 watts for a hour, and while too hot to touch, it doesn't blow-up. Let
we know if you find anything on Yaesu's site, that admits to any problems on
any of their products. Obviously, they are just perfect. :>)

So while this is all a bit OT, the fact remains that beyond comparing specs,
there are differences that go beyond specs. The K3 has specs and support. A
good combination, even if it needs some fixes. At least you will get the
fixes, and not a run around.











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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[eric manning]

Bob said:

"the K3 is on top, but it is also a very technical radio.
...
I think
that's a good thing, but others just want to push a button,"

COULD we say that the K3 is the radio for people who like to use their brains,
and the KenYaeCom radios are for the appliance operators?

 Two completely different markets.

eric
VA7DZ



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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Phil LaMarche]

I'm a appliance operator (licensed 61 years) and have a K3.   


Philip LaMarche
 
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
 
727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell 
 
www.w9dvm.com
 
K3 #1605
 
CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM
 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric manning
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:59 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc: peter driessen
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

Bob said:

"the K3 is on top, but it is also a very technical radio.
...
I think
that's a good thing, but others just want to push a button,"

COULD we say that the K3 is the radio for people who like to use their
brains, and the KenYaeCom radios are for the appliance operators?

 Two completely different markets.

eric
VA7DZ



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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[WW2PT]

Using the K3 isn't exactly in the same league as flying a space  
shuttle. This is (or at least used to be) a technical hobby. If the K3  
is "too complicated" for someone to use, he probably needs to find a  
new, less complicated hobby. Perhaps basket weaving.

73,
Paul WW2PT



On Feb 28, 2010, at 10:59 AM, eric manning wrote:

> Bob said:
>
> "the K3 is on top, but it is also a very technical radio.
> ...
> I think
> that's a good thing, but others just want to push a button,"
>
> COULD we say that the K3 is the radio for people who like to use  
> their brains,
> and the KenYaeCom radios are for the appliance operators?
>
> Two completely different markets.
>
> eric
> VA7DZ
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000

[Philip Carter]

Some people will always prefer the Yeacomwood appliance.  If they didn't 
it would be a somewhat limited market
-- 
Phil Carter, WD8QWR
QRPARCI #9986, CQRP #3
Fists #6514, FP #262
QCWA #32302, NAQCC #3451
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[Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Hector Padron]

Is that "Radcom" a trustable source,do they have all the professional 
measurement devices Sherwood labs have? If so,what is the difference in figures 
to make it better than our K3 ?

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"


  
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Bill W4ZV]

AD4C2009 wrote:
> 
> Is that "Radcom" a trustable source,do they have all the professional
> measurement devices Sherwood labs have? If so,what is the difference in
> figures to make it better than our K3 ?
> 
> 
> "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
> 

Radcom's tests, under Peter Hart G3SJX, are just as trustworthy as ARRL and
Sherwood, and in fact have more continuity (in longevity of personnel,
equipment and procedure) than ARRL and maybe a bit more integrity than
Sherwood.  I say the latter because Rob has had the K3 listed #1 even though
both the Flex 5000 and Perseus exceed it at 500 Hz BW.  The only reason the
K3 is ranked #1 is that it uses a narrower bandwidth (200 Hz) than the other
two rigs to achieve the #1 position.  Rob has this clearly footnoted but it
still doesn't seem right to me to list the K3 at the top based on footnotes.  

With equal 500 Hz BWs, the 2 kHz IMD results are:

Perseus - 99 dB
Flex 5k  - 96 dB
K3- 95 dB

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

Someone may forward this to Rob which will be no surprise to him since I've
told him this directly.  Frankly I doubt many would notice the difference
between 95, 96, 99 or even 101 (with 200 Hz) so I don't understand why not
rank rigs at identical bandwidths (500 Hz).

73,  Bill

P.S.  It is not "compulsory" for me to own a K3.  I own a K3 because it
offers me the best performance available at this time for my set of needs. 
(Best performance meaning excellent strong signal handling and true
phase-locked diversity).
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Don Wilhelm]

While the RadCom reports are trustworthy, I have not seen the complete 
test results nor the procedures documented in a manner similar to the 
ARRL test reports and procedures.  I do see and hear Peter Hart's 
ranking (the K3 is 3rd for 2 kHz IMD at 500 Hz BW), but how does it rank 
for the other parameters - there is more to receiver performance than 
just 2 kHz IMD.  What is most important to Peter Hart may not be most 
important to me - there are trade-offs with any piece of equipment, and 
any chosen parameter may be improved at the expense of other parameters.

73,
Don W3FPR

Bill W4ZV wrote:
> Radcom's tests, under Peter Hart G3SJX, are just as trustworthy as ARRL and
> Sherwood, and in fact have more continuity (in longevity of personnel,
> equipment and procedure) than ARRL and maybe a bit more integrity than
> Sherwood.  I say the latter because Rob has had the K3 listed #1 even though
> both the Flex 5000 and Perseus exceed it at 500 Hz BW.  The only reason the
> K3 is ranked #1 is that it uses a narrower bandwidth (200 Hz) than the other
> two rigs to achieve the #1 position.  Rob has this clearly footnoted but it
> still doesn't seem right to me to list the K3 at the top based on footnotes.  
>
> With equal 500 Hz BWs, the 2 kHz IMD results are:
>
> Perseus - 99 dB
> Flex 5k  - 96 dB
> K3- 95 dB
>
> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
>
> Someone may forward this to Rob which will be no surprise to him since I've
> told him this directly.  Frankly I doubt many would notice the difference
> between 95, 96, 99 or even 101 (with 200 Hz) so I don't understand why not
> rank rigs at identical bandwidths (500 Hz).
>
> 73,  Bill
>
>
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Bill,

On 5/22/2010 1:48 PM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> The only reason the K3 is ranked #1 is that it uses a narrower
> bandwidth (200 Hz) than the other two rigs to achieve the #1
> position.  Rob has this clearly footnoted but it still doesn't
 > seem right to me to list the K3 at the top based on footnotes.

I don't believe that the K3 is ranked number 1 only based on
footnotes.  Consider the 100 KHz blocking numbers, the better
wide spaced dynamic range, much lower MDS (without a preamp),
or better phase noise performance (vs. the Flex-5000) and the
K3 is overall a much better, more well balanced performer.

Some of the measures may not be important to a purely CW operator
in the US but 20KHz DR could certainly be important to a phone
contester and the 100 KHz blocking numbers are probably important
to someone in Europe who must deal with the horrendous broadcast
interference issues on 40 meters.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Dave KQ3T]

AFAIK, all the testing is done with a single unit. Does anyone have an 
idea as to what the normal unit-to-unit variation is? Are we talking 
0.1dB, 1dB, 5dB?

73,
Dave KQ3T
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[Bill W4ZV]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't believe that the K3 is ranked number 1 only based on
> footnotes.  Consider the 100 KHz blocking numbers, the better
> wide spaced dynamic range, much lower MDS (without a preamp),
> or better phase noise performance (vs. the Flex-5000) and the
> K3 is overall a much better, more well balanced performer.
> 

Joe you're mistaken about the ranking methodology.  At the very top of the
page, it states:

*
Receiver Test Data

(Sorted by Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced)
*

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I agree that other parameters are important, but Rob's ranking is actually
by 2 kHz IMDDR3 *only*.  Hence my quibble with ranking the K3 #1, which is
not true if based on apples-to-apples (500 Hz BW) measurements.

73,  Bill




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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

[James Duffey]

Dave - You wrote:

"AFAIK, all the testing is done with a single unit. Does anyone have an 
idea as to what the normal unit-to-unit variation is? Are we talking 
0.1dB, 1dB, 5dB?"

Variations of a few dB from one unit to another of the same radio are typical. 
For the higher performing radios, most operators will not be able to tell the 
difference.

There are exceptions, for a particularly pathological case look at the Third 
Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced (dB) for the two K2s that Robert Sherwood 
tested:

< http://www.sherweng.com/table.html > 

For radios based on straight analog to digital converters (ADC), that is those 
that have no traditional mixer/LO/IF front end, such as the Perseus the third 
order dynamic range is not a good figure of merit, as the third order products 
do not manifest themselves until the ADC has essentially saturated. 

Everyone should be happy that other manufacturers are striving for optimum 
receiver performance competitive with Elecraft, whether driven by the K3 or 
not. Competition is healthy for the market place and we all benefit. It is a 
lack of American competition in the 70s and 80s that allowed the Japanese 
imports to get a toehold here. For better and for worse.  - Duffey
--
KK6MC
James Duffey
Cedar Crest NM





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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 against K3 ?

[Doug Turnbull]

James,
You state this very well.   Competition is good and sooner or later
someone will produce a better radio than the K3.   Many K3 users would like
different emphasis in areas of design but then come to realize that we would
probably miss some of the current features such as portability.   There is
however one area that I bet no one is going to equal and that is the
involvement of design engineers with amateurs!   The design is ever
improving and we have a great community within the Elecraft users.   No
other radio manufacturer yet matches this and I bet no one will.

   73 Doug EI2CN 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Duffey
Sent: 23 May 2010 17:03
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc: James Duffey
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 againts K3 ?

Dave - You wrote:

"AFAIK, all the testing is done with a single unit. Does anyone have an 
idea as to what the normal unit-to-unit variation is? Are we talking 
0.1dB, 1dB, 5dB?"

Variations of a few dB from one unit to another of the same radio are
typical. For the higher performing radios, most operators will not be able
to tell the difference.

There are exceptions, for a particularly pathological case look at the Third
Order Dynamic Range Narrow Spaced (dB) for the two K2s that Robert Sherwood
tested:

< http://www.sherweng.com/table.html > 

For radios based on straight analog to digital converters (ADC), that is
those that have no traditional mixer/LO/IF front end, such as the Perseus
the third order dynamic range is not a good figure of merit, as the third
order products do not manifest themselves until the ADC has essentially
saturated. 

Everyone should be happy that other manufacturers are striving for optimum
receiver performance competitive with Elecraft, whether driven by the K3 or
not. Competition is healthy for the market place and we all benefit. It is a
lack of American competition in the 70s and 80s that allowed the Japanese
imports to get a toehold here. For better and for worse.  - Duffey
--
KK6MC
James Duffey
Cedar Crest NM





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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 against K3 ?

[pd0psb]

And besides; the FT5K is in fact really ugly ;-)
I think the designer must like funfairs & gaming...

73'
Paul
PD0PSB
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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 [END of Thread]

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Let's end this thread before we beat it to death. :-)

73, Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft Moderator

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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 [END of Thread]

[Bob - W0GI]

Eric,
 
Why not beat it to death? :>)
 
Just kiddingMaybe...
 
This is just to you, but Yaesu management sucks.. :<)
 
73, Bob W0GI
 
-Original Message-
From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+4642926-1099807645-407...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:50 PM
To: Bob - W0GI
Subject: Re: FT-5000 [END of Thread]
 
Let's end this thread before we beat it to death. :-) 

73, Eric   WA6HHQ 
Elecraft Moderator 

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Re: [Elecraft] FT-5000 [END of Thread - Really!]

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Folks - This thread was ended several days ago..

73, Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator

_..._



Philip Carter wrote:
> Some people will always prefer the Yeacomwood appliance.  If they didn't 
> it would be a somewhat limited market
>   
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