Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Ken, great. When you are copying, are you using the K3 decoder or copying in your head at 30 wpm. Uncle Phil, W0xi... Ken mailto:wa8...@gmail.com Monday, December 01, 2014 6:37 PM Yes, I’ve looked up and understand the theory of Iambic keying but 1) it’s been weird to try and 2) I haven’t noticed any advantage for me. Now maybe there is an advantage at higher speeds? But when I’ve run above 30 wpm, I use a keyboard ;-) 73, Ken WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to aldenmcduf...@sunflower.com Ken mailto:wa8...@gmail.com Monday, December 01, 2014 3:00 PM Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle. Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong. Thanks, Ken WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to aldenmcduf...@sunflower.com Joe Subich, W4TV mailto:li...@subich.com Monday, December 01, 2014 8:06 AM *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow) paddle operation. There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing element decision is made: Iambic A which makes the decision at the end of the current element. If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dit, the keyer adds a dah. If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dah, the keyer adds a dit. Iambic B makes the decision at the *beginning* of the current element. If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dit, the keyer sends dit-dah. If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dah, the keyer sends dah-dit. CMOS Super Keyer (Logikeyer) makes the decision *one dit time into* the current character. If the current element is a dit and both paddles are closed at the end of the dit, the keyer adds a dah. If the current element is a dah and both paddles are closed 1/3 of the way through the dah, the keyer adds a dit. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to aldenmcduf...@sunflower.com Don Wilhelm mailto:w3...@embarqmail.com Monday, December 01, 2014 7:46 AM There are alternatives to Iambic keying. One way is to use a single lever paddle which makes it impossible to send those alternating dit/dah sequences that I cannot work with correctly due to some 'finger habits' that I learned when using a bug. Another way is to get a K1EL keyer (or Winkeyer) and try out the various modes he has built in. They do have a bug mode, but I have trouble with that one because there is no control between the string of dits and the timing of the manual dashes, when used with dual lever paddles. It would probably be OK with a single lever paddle, but I have not tried it that way. With dual lever paddles, I prefer Ultimatic mode. That mode sends a string of the last paddle closed, which means you can use dit or dah insertion as well. If you are just starting out, you may want to learn to send with dual lever paddles in Iambic (A or B your choice) and learn the squeeze sequences as well. That should help you when you get up to speeds above 30 wpm. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to aldenmcduf...@sunflower.com Edward R Cole mailto:kl...@acsalaska.net Monday, December 01, 2014 2:17 AM I still have my original straight key that I bought in 1958 when I was practising for my Novice. I didn't have the luxury of a code machine to send my practise sessions (cassettes had not been invented) so either I listened on my little 3-tube receiver or I spent hours sending to myself. I think that resulted in a pretty good fist. In the
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I still have my original straight key that I bought in 1958 when I was practising for my Novice. I didn't have the luxury of a code machine to send my practise sessions (cassettes had not been invented) so either I listened on my little 3-tube receiver or I spent hours sending to myself. I think that resulted in a pretty good fist. In the day I could send 18-20wpm easily with the straight key. I guess I favor learning with a straight key. Learning what proper sounding CW sounds like one should use tapes or practise programs. Do an hour a day for a month and you will absorb it. Many years later I bought a Bencher-2 but never got very good results as the K3 keyer only does Iambic. I guess I am too set in my ways wanting to control the dots and dashes to get hang of Iambic. I should say I was off CW for decades so having to get back into it. My straight keying is a little rusty and not as smooth as I used to do, but In time it'll come back. I wonder if there are any keyers that just work like a bug but using a paddle? I tried CW skimmer and the K3 CW text decoder but I'm not too impressed as it takes strong, very clean signal to work well. Brain works better. For CW-eme I set up some message scripts where I fill in the other stations call sign and let the computer send. Eme keeps one quite busy keeping the antenna pointed, tuning Doppler shift, and listening to extremely weak signals. Having the transmitting time to fulfill these other tasks without being tied to the key helps a lot. Of course I may still need to send a non-standard reply so the old straight key is right handy. Setting the spring tension and gap for fast CW is required using a straight key-most beginners have too wide a gap setting. Motion of the hand is in the wrist moving up/down with fingers lightly touching the key. Beginners usually try taping the key. I can see repetitive motion stress being a problem especially for us older hams. Why I like computer keying for repetitive calling. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Kits made by KL7UW Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Ed et al., My opinions usually rub someone wrong, so take them as they are - one man’s opinions about what he has observed in his short time as an amateur operator. K1EL makes a kit that will let you set it up in “bug” mode. I assume his Winkeyer does the same. I have been reluctant to jump in this conversation as I am a QRS op still. I got interested in CW about two years ago. I had learned it to upgrade to Tech Plus and then General 20 or so years ago and then promptly put the key away and I am still kicking myself. I can copy a lot of what is sent at 18 - 20 WPM, but I am comfortable at about 15 - 17 WPM. Not really fast enough for a long QSO. Once I get the call, I can copy standard exchanges pretty fast (i.e. 5NN, TU, 73). I do *not* like “cut” numbers like “T” for “0.” That messes with my head and I try to figure out what the crap “1TT means and have missed part of the exchange. I understand *why* it’s done. That doesn’t mean I like it or that I’m going to change it. When I first got interested a couple of years ago, I think it was this group (Elecraft) that put me on CW Ops. I took a course during the summer of 2012. If I practiced an hour a day, every day, I’d have my speed up where I’d like to be, but I haven’t practiced. I do well enough to copy calls and 5NN from DX ops, but for longer contacts, my mind wanders and I stop decoding. I have tried typing stuff out and that helps some. CW Ops will want you to head copy and learn words. I like this approach, but I’m not there yet. I have a hard time remembering what is spoken to me in regular conversation. :) There are CW-oriented groups around too - SKCC (Straight Key Century Club skccgroup.com http://skccgroup.com/) is one. Another is FISTS (fistsna.org http://fistsna.org/ although I’m not a member) and there’s also NAQCC (North American QRP CW Club naqcc.info). There are a lot of QRS ops in SKCC. You don’t have to be a member to work one of the members, you just won’t have a “number” to exchange. SKCC, as the name implies, is a straight key club. They also allow the use of bugs and cootie (sideswiper) keys. Their focus is on manual sending of CW, but it would be rare that the regular ops in that club would shun you. I like sending with a bug - kind of a nostalgia thing to me. I’m not particularly great at it, but I’ve heard much worse. NAQCC is another specialized club in that they want you to be QRP. Unless you’re an experienced op, or unless you are patient, this club might not be for you. It is kind of a purist club with CW only (paddles are allowed), but they award more points for their sprints based on different criteria. They prefer that you use a wire antenna. However, they have a list of QRS nets on their website: http://naqcc.info/cw_nets.html http://naqcc.info/cw_nets.html. Just tune around and listen. Their nets are *not* necessarily QRP. They want folks to check in and practice. My opinion is that “on-the-air” practice is good. You get to experience all of the conditions in real time. I prefer a single-lever paddle to Iambic. When I *first* learned CW 20 years ago, everyone I knew used a set of Bencher paddles. I didn’t know any different and the Internet was still a dial-up connection to AOL for me. I didn’t know enough even to ask questions. When I got back into CW a couple of years ago, I started reading a lot. I read some history of CW and the progression from straight key to bug (or cootie) up to Iambic paddles. Along the way, the single-lever paddle came up. I bought one and loved it. I *never* got the hang of Iambic operation and *much* prefer a single-lever paddle - to each his own. Because of the way the single-lever mechanism works, it’s been my experience that you’ll pay a little more for that configuration. I just thought of something else… CWOps will stress *accurate* keying not *fast* keying. If you’re a fast op who makes lots of mistakes and repeats, you could wind up being as slow as the QRS op who is accurate. There’s also a book out there - I think it’s called The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy. I originally laughed when I heard about a book on learning CW. Well, it’s a good read and is available for free as a PDF from many many places. Here is a link: http://www.tasrt.ca/TASRTVersions/TASRT.pdf http://www.tasrt.ca/TASRTVersions/TASRT.pdf. 73, Joel - W4JBB On Dec 1, 2014, at 2:17 AM, Edward R Cole kl...@acsalaska.net wrote: I still have my original straight key that I bought in 1958 when I was practising for my Novice. I didn't have the luxury of a code machine to send my practise sessions (cassettes had not been invented) so either I listened on my little 3-tube receiver or I spent hours sending to myself. I think that resulted in a pretty good fist. In the day I could send 18-20wpm easily with the straight key. I guess I favor learning with a straight key. Learning what proper sounding CW sounds like one should use tapes or
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
There are alternatives to Iambic keying. One way is to use a single lever paddle which makes it impossible to send those alternating dit/dah sequences that I cannot work with correctly due to some 'finger habits' that I learned when using a bug. Another way is to get a K1EL keyer (or Winkeyer) and try out the various modes he has built in. They do have a bug mode, but I have trouble with that one because there is no control between the string of dits and the timing of the manual dashes, when used with dual lever paddles. It would probably be OK with a single lever paddle, but I have not tried it that way. With dual lever paddles, I prefer Ultimatic mode. That mode sends a string of the last paddle closed, which means you can use dit or dah insertion as well. If you are just starting out, you may want to learn to send with dual lever paddles in Iambic (A or B your choice) and learn the squeeze sequences as well. That should help you when you get up to speeds above 30 wpm. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/1/2014 3:17 AM, Edward R Cole wrote: Many years later I bought a Bencher-2 but never got very good results as the K3 keyer only does Iambic. I guess I am too set in my ways wanting to control the dots and dashes to get hang of Iambic. I should say I was off CW for decades so having to get back into it. My straight keying is a little rusty and not as smooth as I used to do, but In time it'll come back. I wonder if there are any keyers that just work like a bug but using a paddle? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On 2014-12-01 8:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: If you are just starting out, you may want to learn to send with dual lever paddles in Iambic (A or B your choice) and learn the squeeze sequences as well. That should help you when you get up to speeds above 30 wpm. *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow) paddle operation. There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing element decision is made: Iambic A which makes the decision at the end of the current element. If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dit, the keyer adds a dah. If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dah, the keyer adds a dit. Iambic B makes the decision at the *beginning* of the current element. If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dit, the keyer sends dit-dah. If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dah, the keyer sends dah-dit. CMOS Super Keyer (Logikeyer) makes the decision *one dit time into* the current character. If the current element is a dit and both paddles are closed at the end of the dit, the keyer adds a dah. If the current element is a dah and both paddles are closed 1/3 of the way through the dah, the keyer adds a dit. 73, ... Joe, W4TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On 11/30/2014 8:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote: Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing? Not quite. Refer to Page 40 of the October 1949 issue of QST for the definitive work on spacing in International Morse code. It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers did not exist -- we had bugs, but did start on straight keys. I've been licensed for a little over 61 years [1953]. I learned on a straight key because that's what there was, I was 13, and couldn't afford a bug. I sat for my code tests [5 WPM, 13 WPM, and 20 WPM] at the FCC office in downtown Los Angeles with the FCC's J-38 screwed to the desk, again because that's what there was. I finally managed $5 for a war surplus J-36 bug built by Lionel of model train fame. It looked like it had gone ashore with the Marines at Iwo Jima, but it worked and the J-38 straight key was screwed to a piece of plywood and migrated to the floor as a PTT foot switch. In 1956, I and two teenage friends built keyers. 9 or 10 dual triodes, mine weighed about half a brick, and we used our bugs as paddles. Self-completing dots and dashes, nothing else. Iambic hadn't been invented yet. Every Elecraft radio I know about has a modern, 21st century keyer built in. Actually, most every modern radio has had a keyer built in for a dozen years or more. Why would you not use it? Unless you're a real straight key pro, they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going through an intermediate step. Precisely! You *must* start on a straight key is a litany from old guys who want to make Morse hard for new folks, possibly because it was hard for them. The first time I ever fired a gun was in combat training from the same XM-177 automatic rifle I would carry thereafter. They did not start us out with muzzle loading muskets and black powder. :-) I haven't mastered Iambic, primarily because I've never tried to. Incidentally, I think Iambic-B originally arose as a mistake in an early keyer, I don't remember which one. There are other kinds of keyers, Ultimatic is one, each has its following, pick one or more and begin enjoying another of the many facets of ham radio! Just because I learned on a J-38 61+ years ago does not mean everyone has to do likewise today. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
A little late to the party here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I'm sort of old school in favoring becoming proficient with a straight key first before moving to a bug or a keyer. It makes sense: to use a sports analogy, one needs to master the fundamentals before trying to move to fancier stuff. (This was drilled into me by my now SK dad, who was a USCG radio op in WWII. If you can send smoothly enough with a straight key to make the op on the other end think you're using a keyer, you've accomplished something.) That being said, as far as straight keys are concerned, in my book the most bang for the buck is the Nye 320 series rectangular base with a Navy knob (the stacked as opposed to single disk arrangement.) The 310 oval base model and the J-38s etc. are nice keys but just not quite as smooth IMHO as the 320. There are better ones but they are a lot more expensive. Next, I'm going to differ here with what I've seen from several recommending the Benchers. I owned one and was never impressed - to me best bang for the buck in the paddle category are the Kents (SP-1 single lever, TP-1 twin.) Another possible group of price to performance sleepers are the keys and paddles from American Morse Equipment. The Begalis et al may be superior, but I've never had my hands on one to compare. (Note that I tend to be somewhat of a tightwad in going for what will get the job done properly without a bunch of extras in features or expense.) 73, Al On Sun November 30 2014 11:05:34 pm Tom Blahovici wrote: I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead. So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Well not being really old or really new to CW, I take a path of thought that has not been touched on, but trampled all around. I started on a J-38 and I like it and us to this day, but I really prefer my keyer and single lever paddle. I started with the J-38 because that is all I had and keyers were out of sight for me financially. I learned CW with the J-38 but getting to 20 WPM was hard that way. I finally built the accu-keyer from the handbook and got together the money for a Vibroplex paddle. It was single lever because the dual-lever stuff didn't exist at the time. Things happened and I tried the another keyer and dual-lever and never seemed to get the command of CW like I had with the first keyer and single-lever paddle. I tried another keyer or two loaned by others who left CW and had become phone only or near only ops. I found each keyer did things a little differently and each time I had some relearning to do. During this time I had a burglary and my single-lever was among the missing and the dual-lever was the in thing. I got a new keyer and a dual-leveler paddle. I tried and I tried squeeze paddles and I just had too many CW habits by then. I just started using the dual-lever paddles as if they were single-lever ones and the world got pretty good. I also used a variety of rigs with built in keyers and each one seemed to have different charismatics and different things that could be set. I'd have to spend time with each rig to get it to my settings. This was all a pain in my sitting down spot. So I decided to solve that problem once and for all. I decided on one keyer (Super CMOS III Memory Keyer kit version) and one paddle (Single-lever Kent). I just use that combo and set the rig I chose to use for a straight key and go to work. There is no fooling around with settings and I am always in familiar territory. The moral of the story is you tend to like what you first learn. With that in mind, I'd pick one set-up I think would be around for a really long time or one you could maintain and go with that one. Mine has become the Super CMOS keyer and the single-lever Kent. I use it on all of my rigs. For special events I still use the J-38 when I play SK-night and SKCC or FISTS games, all the rest get the Super CMOS Keyer and Kent single-lever combo. Regards 73, Terry, KQ5U __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
My story... Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test was easy-as-pie. As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both RX/TX at 20+ wpm. Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the bug for CW hit me again. How much time to relearn CW? It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again) that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just did not practice enough with the J-38. So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13 wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster. I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting). My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other interruptions. However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players). 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
With all the keyers out there, built in and otherwise, there should be no bad CW heard, but as anyone who listens can attest, there is, lots of it. One thing I suggest is copying W1AW code practice, and bulletins once your speed can handle the 18 wpm used for Bulletins. That is perfect code, weight, spacing etc., supposedly. Get used to what that sounds like, and imitate it! Code proficiency comes from a combination of talent, effort and want to. Some are so talented they pick it up easily with little effort. Some make an effort, but don't really want to do it, and that impedes progress. Want to overcomes a certain deficiency of talent. 73 de W6OGC Jim Allen On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote: My story... Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test was easy-as-pie. As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both RX/TX at 20+ wpm. Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the bug for CW hit me again. How much time to relearn CW? It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again) that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just did not practice enough with the J-38. So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13 wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster. I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting). My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other interruptions. However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players). 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jalleninv...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Hi everyone. I'm the OP here and I thank everyone who replied. I've had an order of magnitude more mail than I received on the list. I can't answer all of them due to a broken elbow but I thank everyone who replied. Lots to digest, hopefully will be on the air soon. 73's Tom On Dec 1, 2014 1:16 PM, Jim Allen jalleninv...@gmail.com wrote: With all the keyers out there, built in and otherwise, there should be no bad CW heard, but as anyone who listens can attest, there is, lots of it. One thing I suggest is copying W1AW code practice, and bulletins once your speed can handle the 18 wpm used for Bulletins. That is perfect code, weight, spacing etc., supposedly. Get used to what that sounds like, and imitate it! Code proficiency comes from a combination of talent, effort and want to. Some are so talented they pick it up easily with little effort. Some make an effort, but don't really want to do it, and that impedes progress. Want to overcomes a certain deficiency of talent. 73 de W6OGC Jim Allen On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote: My story... Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test was easy-as-pie. As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both RX/TX at 20+ wpm. Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the bug for CW hit me again. How much time to relearn CW? It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again) that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just did not practice enough with the J-38. So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13 wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster. I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting). My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other interruptions. However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players). 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jalleninv...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I'm sold on single-lever paddles. I have a handbuilt one from G3YUH, and I have a Kent single-lever that is outstanding. Very smooth to operate and nicely finished. It's my favorite key now. I never could get interested in iambic keying which is more of an affectation than anything useful. The single-lever paddle was a very easy transition from years of using dual-lever paddles. I have two Benchers: chrome and black. The black one I used mobile every day for 5 years when I was active in County Hunting, and traveling every week to the Bay Area from So Cal. It sat on the passenger seat and I keyed it with my right hand (I'm left handed). I never thought to tether it and as a result it occasionally hit the firewall when I had to brake really hard. After 5 years, the only problem was the rivets on the plastic finger pieces loosened. The chrome one uses screws, but the black one has crappy rivets. It's a simple, tough design that is easy to set up and holds adjustment if you don't let it fly around untethered in a vehicle. Starting out, the Benchers would be a good choice. They're a good choice even with experience, but you can find them used fairly cheap and they will give good service for a new CW op until they learn their own preferences. Eric KE6US On 11/30/2014 11:18 PM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) wrote: I couldn't agree more. I'm glad I finally discovered the single-lever paddle after more than ten years of struggling with iambic. It is so much easier to use the single-lever and it is much more forgiving for small timing errors. I wrote about it on my blog some time ago: http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/06/the-advantage-of-single-lever-paddle.html After that I got the tiny Palm single-lever paddle. Barry K3NDM wrote Tom, As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic. - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-CW-decoder-and-CQ-CW-contest-tp7595261p7595290.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to eric_c...@hotmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On 12/01/2014 09:36 AM, Terry wrote: ... I started on a J-38 I do think a straight key is good when you're starting out because it forces you to concentrate on correct timing. One trick to get your timing correct is to set up your code-practice software to send a known text at a slow speed. Using a code practice oscillator, send along with it. You'll get immediate feedback on your timing errors and will soon be sending perfect code. That will stand you in good stead when you then switch to a speed key, either a semi-automatic bug or a fully-automatic keyer. Alan N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Well we all have our CW learning stories. So here is mine and can be taken as a tip-suggestion-opinion. At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the wrong hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. At that point it was equally poor with either hand. But I learned it and over time it was a great advantage as the better hand was free. I could send with one hand and log or do other things with the other. Back in the old days when logs were in the carbon stick and dead tree format it was always interesting to watch at FD etc OPS that only used one hand as they chased the pencil that rolled away when they put it down. Sending CW is not a high dexterity thing like writing or other fine work. Whether you start with a straight key or paddle this is appropriate. Sending CW is a finesse rather than a force mode of doing it. If your chasing the key or paddle around that is excessive force and adding more weight is not the solution. Same goes for it being tiresome or generating pain and discomfort. To much tension and force being used. Think about it, you need movement of only thousands of an inch not the key to move across the desk. Learn to relax and the movement is only slight with the fingers or wrist or combination of the two. Confession time... I hated CW. When my novice expired I got a 5 WPM tech and held it until the mid 60's. I lived in an apartment with an indoor antenna and wanted to get on 10 to participate in the clubs 10 meter net. I struggled through and got to 13 WPM to get a General ticket. I made the net and called CQ on phone until I was blue in the face and never made a contact. 1st CQ on CW was replied to instantly by an SP station. That set the hook and I'd guess I'm 75% CW since. 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR K2TKR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Hi all, Only read about sending CW via straight key or paddles. To my opinion the work starts with a good reading ability. Some tips from personal experience: - don't start with low speed CW. It makes you think in dits and dahs instead of sound. - so stay away from the 10WPM wall - start at 12 WPM or even higher. - don't touch a key until you are able to solid copy 12-15WPM and are familiar with the sound. - stay away from plain text until you are able to copy random almost 100%. It prevents ahead reading of what is yet to come. Spacing between letters/wordsunless needed stay away from this all it might enable you to start thinking. My CW learning cycle was starting with 8WPM which i managed quite quickly, but trying to get at higher speeds hit the 10WPM wall. With help of some great HAMS with weekly execercises (tapes) and at home drinking too stong coffee i managed to get over the 10WPM wall, passed the 12WPM CW exam for the A (now F) license. The great Hams fooled me as i was already trained at 15 WPM. Exam was easy. Didn't use CW after passing. Stupid but too late. Always had issues with 0-9 characters as i still didn't achieve to unprogram my dits/dahs decyphering. Tried many times to get back to the old skills but my brain wants to decypher still. Try the software of G4FON which lets you learn the characters per character and other real life situations if needed. Ron - PA3FAT -Original Message- From: Bob Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 8:14 PM To: elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW Well we all have our CW learning stories. So here is mine and can be taken as a tip-suggestion-opinion. At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the wrong hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. At that point it was equally poor with either hand. But I learned it and over time it was a great advantage as the better hand was free. I could send with one hand and log or do other things with the other. Back in the old days when logs were in the carbon stick and dead tree format it was always interesting to watch at FD etc OPS that only used one hand as they chased the pencil that rolled away when they put it down. Sending CW is not a high dexterity thing like writing or other fine work. Whether you start with a straight key or paddle this is appropriate. Sending CW is a finesse rather than a force mode of doing it. If your chasing the key or paddle around that is excessive force and adding more weight is not the solution. Same goes for it being tiresome or generating pain and discomfort. To much tension and force being used. Think about it, you need movement of only thousands of an inch not the key to move across the desk. Learn to relax and the movement is only slight with the fingers or wrist or combination of the two. Confession time... I hated CW. When my novice expired I got a 5 WPM tech and held it until the mid 60's. I lived in an apartment with an indoor antenna and wanted to get on 10 to participate in the clubs 10 meter net. I struggled through and got to 13 WPM to get a General ticket. I made the net and called CQ on phone until I was blue in the face and never made a contact. 1st CQ on CW was replied to instantly by an SP station. That set the hook and I'd guess I'm 75% CW since. 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR K2TKR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ronvandorema...@hotmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Terry tmyers1...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The moral of the story is you tend to like what you first learn. That has not been my experience, it probably depends more on what you have to start with. I started out with a Japanese J-38 clone and then later was given a WWII surplus Vibroplex (I still have both of them on the operating desk.) I’m not sure how good I ever was with the bug but I would not subject the airwaves today to my current horrible fist with it! In my case, my first “electronic” keyer was a homebrew keyer out of the 1960’s Handbook, a pair of 12AU7 tubes IIRC and a paddle made out of a pair of back to back J-38 clones. Well I survived that for a long time and must have been fairly proficient since I operated high level NTS without being banned ;-) Eventually I bought an MFJ keyer and a real paddle (Bencher) and then the K3 with the Bencher. Either one is fine by me but the K3 is of course more convenient. Bottom line, I would never go back to that early Handbook keyer and the back to back J-38s! never! Speaking of bad fists brings back the memories of a certain W8D**. When you heard him on a traffic net, you either laughed or cried. Laughed if someone else had to copy his traffic, cried if you had to copy it! Cliff just sent dots and more dots, you had to figure out which ones should have been dashes because of the extra spacing! from: phil, K7PEH However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players). Would you really suggest someone starting out at 5 wpm use a paddle and keyer? 73, WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
This is more common than one might think, but only for left-handers it seems. I'm left-handed and my Elmer, W6RMK, was too. He taught me to send with my right hand so I could write legibly in my log. In those days, you logged every transmission, whether or not it resulted in a QSO. A number of years ago, we had a little survey on this list. A total of 137 responded, about 22% south paws. A little more than 50% of those learned to send/paddle right. 0% of the north paws sent/paddled left. From this and answers to some of the other questions in the survey, it appears that most right-handers are *really* right-handed [some even said so]. Left-handers seem to be somewhat more flexible, maybe because we live in a right-handed world. I currently have a second paddle set up left on the WinKey-USB to the left of the laptop which I've started using left-handed in casual QSO's since it's more natural for me and I no longer have to write in my logbook. I still contest with the paddle on the right since I can type faster with my left hand. I'm not hearing all the poor CW others are talking about. In CQ WW CW, I made a note of two: one had the weight set very high and his dots resembled his dashes. Theotheroneforgottherearespacesbetweenwords. Quite a few of the Summits On The Air crowd are learning CW and, while they may make a few more mistakes, there is nothing wrong with their sending. The majority of those ops are using embedded keyers in their rigs. In the end, do what works best for you. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 12/1/2014 11:14 AM, Bob wrote: At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the wrong hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow) paddle operation. There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing element decision is made: Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle. Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong. Thanks, Ken WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
You’re not alone. My first experience with paddles was long after having used a ‘bug’.. Hence… … wobble wrist… I have never gotten even remotely adept at ‘squeeze keying’… Still screw stuff up with iambic etc. paddles/keyers. Nevertheless, I prefer paddles/keyer to a straight key at anything over about 15 wpm.. 73 Gil, W1RG From: Ken Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 4:02 PM To: Joe Subich, W4TV Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow) paddle operation. There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing element decision is made: Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle. Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong. Thanks, Ken WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w...@hotmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Am I missing something? No, with the mention of Iambic, I assumed squeeze technique. If one uses a single lever paddle or slaps dual lever paddles, Iambic A/B or Super CMOS are all the same G. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-12-01 4:00 PM, Ken wrote: On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow) paddle operation. There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing element decision is made: Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle. Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong. Thanks, Ken WA8JXM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Ah ah! So THAT (Farnsworth) is the source of the horrible CW I hear (fast characters with excess spacing!) Sorry but I will disagree with that approach. It teaches plain bad CW. (Okay, when I went to school they didn’t have to teach the alphabet with silly bellies and stuff either. We learned to read the English language, not pictures and so we were able to progress beyond picture books and hieroglyphics. Dumbing down elementary teaching has been a disaster and I think dumbing down CW is in the same category.) I learned CW by myself without any crutches. Sorry but I never noticed a 10wpm barrier either, it took me 4 months as a novice and 328 on the air QSOs to pass my General ticket (13wpm in front of an FCC examiner.) I think it is totally hilarious that you mention a “conspiracy by the FCC” to prevent people from getting a General class ticket back when most hams had General class tickets! Ken WA8JXM On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net wrote: On 12/1/2014 12:17 PM, Ken wrote: Would you really suggest someone starting out at 5 wpm use a paddle and keyer? Yes. It's called Farnsworth and there is both a good body of empirical evidence as well as explainable theory that it works better than other methods. Learning Morse has a direct parallel with how kids learn to read. Initially, they learn the components of the letters. For example, D is a post with a big tummy, B is a post with two small tummies. They very shortly learn to recognize letters as whole objects by their overall shape, not their components. Farnsworth uses a character speed of about 20 WPM, however the characters are spaced however as much as needed for a given, slower, net speed. 20 WPM is a too fast for counting dits and dahs, and one learns to recognize letters by their sound shape. For me, P sounds like crossing a low round-topped hill, whereas X sounds like crossing a narrow ravine. R is more like going over a speed bump. When sending to the student, you want as precise Morse at a character speed of 20 WPM as you can get, so teacher uses a keyer and paddle. When student is sending, you want him to make the same sound shapes he's burning into his brain on receiving. If he needs 1 WPM spacing to recognize the sound shape and say or write it, that's fine, 20 WPM characters with about 10-12 second spaces is about 1 WPM. There is an almost universal plateau at about 10-11 WPM for most people learning Morse. In the later 50's, a conspiracy theory alleged the FCC set the General code speed at 13 WPM on purpose because of that. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Yes, I’ve looked up and understand the theory of Iambic keying but 1) it’s been weird to try and 2) I haven’t noticed any advantage for me. Now maybe there is an advantage at higher speeds? But when I’ve run above 30 wpm, I use a keyboard ;-) 73, Ken WA8JXM On Dec 1, 2014, at 4:41 PM, G4GNX g4...@theatreorgans.co.uk wrote: In short, yes you're doing it wrong. :-) That said, if it works for you, who cares? The correct way to use a twin paddle iambic keyer is to press on paddle first, fo9llowed by a squeeze action to hold both paddles on, but depending on what character you're trying to send. For example. CQ (for a right handed keyer) would use the following sequence: Press right paddle and immediately squeeze both paddles without letting go the right paddle. Hold that squeeze until the first -.-. is sent, then let go for the inter-character space. To send the 'Q' press the right paddle and wait until the start of the second dash, then squeeze both paddles and immediately let go of the left hand paddle whilst continuing to briefly hold the right hand paddle until you're sure the entire --.- sequence has been sent, then let go the right paddle.ready to send whatever you want to come next. I know this sounds long winded, but once you get used to it, it's very intuitive and very fast and accurate, as long as you practice it. Once you get proficient in that mode, you don't even think about it any more. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Well, I use iambic keying (mode B, because I learned to use a paddle on an ICOM radio, which would only do mode B. Anyway, this was before I even knew there was such a thing as mode A and mode B). The following article questions the value of iambic keying, makes for an interesting read: http://www.morsex.com/pubs/iambicmyth.pdf For the speeds I typically plod along at, around the 20wpm mark, the iambic keying works quite well, and feels nice. 73, Matt VK2RQ On 2 Dec 2014, at 11:37 am, Ken wa8...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I’ve looked up and understand the theory of Iambic keying but 1) it’s been weird to try and 2) I haven’t noticed any advantage for me. Now maybe there is an advantage at higher speeds? But when I’ve run above 30 wpm, I use a keyboard ;-) 73, Ken WA8JXM On Dec 1, 2014, at 4:41 PM, G4GNX g4...@theatreorgans.co.uk wrote: In short, yes you're doing it wrong. :-) That said, if it works for you, who cares? The correct way to use a twin paddle iambic keyer is to press on paddle first, fo9llowed by a squeeze action to hold both paddles on, but depending on what character you're trying to send. For example. CQ (for a right handed keyer) would use the following sequence: Press right paddle and immediately squeeze both paddles without letting go the right paddle. Hold that squeeze until the first -.-. is sent, then let go for the inter-character space. To send the 'Q' press the right paddle and wait until the start of the second dash, then squeeze both paddles and immediately let go of the left hand paddle whilst continuing to briefly hold the right hand paddle until you're sure the entire --.- sequence has been sent, then let go the right paddle.ready to send whatever you want to come next. I know this sounds long winded, but once you get used to it, it's very intuitive and very fast and accurate, as long as you practice it. Once you get proficient in that mode, you don't even think about it any more. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to matt.vk...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I'm one of those left-handlers who learned to send on the paddle either right hand -- that way, no need to put down the pen :-) When I learned the straight key though, in order to get my ham ticket, I learned left-handed, and still can't use a straight key with my right :-( 73, Matt VK2RQ On 2 Dec 2014, at 7:31 am, Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net wrote: This is more common than one might think, but only for left-handers it seems. I'm left-handed and my Elmer, W6RMK, was too. He taught me to send with my right hand so I could write legibly in my log. In those days, you logged every transmission, whether or not it resulted in a QSO. A number of years ago, we had a little survey on this list. A total of 137 responded, about 22% south paws. A little more than 50% of those learned to send/paddle right. 0% of the north paws sent/paddled left. From this and answers to some of the other questions in the survey, it appears that most right-handers are *really* right-handed [some even said so]. Left-handers seem to be somewhat more flexible, maybe because we live in a right-handed world. I currently have a second paddle set up left on the WinKey-USB to the left of the laptop which I've started using left-handed in casual QSO's since it's more natural for me and I no longer have to write in my logbook. I still contest with the paddle on the right since I can type faster with my left hand. I'm not hearing all the poor CW others are talking about. In CQ WW CW, I made a note of two: one had the weight set very high and his dots resembled his dashes. Theotheroneforgottherearespacesbetweenwords. Quite a few of the Summits On The Air crowd are learning CW and, while they may make a few more mistakes, there is nothing wrong with their sending. The majority of those ops are using embedded keyers in their rigs. In the end, do what works best for you. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 12/1/2014 11:14 AM, Bob wrote: At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the wrong hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to matt.vk...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Farnsworth uses a character speed of 15 WPM. Koch (German for Cook) pronounced Cook, not kotch uses 25 WPM. ARRL Code Practice uses Farnsworth for Code Practice for speeds below 15 WPM. I find the Koch method difficult to copy, but Farnsworth not so bad and I use it for Bug sending. when I need to slow down a bit. The Koch method may be a good method for the Military or Commercial trainees to get up to 25 WPM fast, but I don't see a place for it in ham radio and the Military and Commercial do not use CW any more. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman K5EWJ Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart From: Ken wa8...@gmail.com To: k6...@foothill.net Cc: elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW Ah ah! So THAT (Farnsworth) is the source of the horrible CW I hear (fast characters with excess spacing!) Sorry but I will disagree with that approach. It teaches plain bad CW. (Okay, when I went to school they didn’t have to teach the alphabet with silly bellies and stuff either. We learned to read the English language, not pictures and so we were able to progress beyond picture books and hieroglyphics. Dumbing down elementary teaching has been a disaster and I think dumbing down CW is in the same category.) I learned CW by myself without any crutches. Sorry but I never noticed a 10wpm barrier either, it took me 4 months as a novice and 328 on the air QSOs to pass my General ticket (13wpm in front of an FCC examiner.) I think it is totally hilarious that you mention a “conspiracy by the FCC” to prevent people from getting a General class ticket back when most hams had General class tickets! Ken WA8JXM On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Fred Jensen k6...@foothill.net wrote: On 12/1/2014 12:17 PM, Ken wrote: Would you really suggest someone starting out at 5 wpm use a paddle and keyer? Yes. It's called Farnsworth and there is both a good body of empirical evidence as well as explainable theory that it works better than other methods. Learning Morse has a direct parallel with how kids learn to read. Initially, they learn the components of the letters. For example, D is a post with a big tummy, B is a post with two small tummies. They very shortly learn to recognize letters as whole objects by their overall shape, not their components. Farnsworth uses a character speed of about 20 WPM, however the characters are spaced however as much as needed for a given, slower, net speed. 20 WPM is a too fast for counting dits and dahs, and one learns to recognize letters by their sound shape. For me, P sounds like crossing a low round-topped hill, whereas X sounds like crossing a narrow ravine. R is more like going over a speed bump. When sending to the student, you want as precise Morse at a character speed of 20 WPM as you can get, so teacher uses a keyer and paddle. When student is sending, you want him to make the same sound shapes he's burning into his brain on receiving. If he needs 1 WPM spacing to recognize the sound shape and say or write it, that's fine, 20 WPM characters with about 10-12 second spaces is about 1 WPM. There is an almost universal plateau at about 10-11 WPM for most people learning Morse. In the later 50's, a conspiracy theory alleged the FCC set the General code speed at 13 WPM on purpose because of that. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wrco...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote: Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing? It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers did not exist -- we had bugs, but did start on straight keys. But bugs are inherently different from the paddle/keyer combo. Perhaps one of the CWOps guys who are working with CW Academy can offer an opinion. Mine is that sending good CW is mostly a matter of training our brain and fingers to mimic the good CW that we hear. Unless you're a real straight key pro, they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going through an intermediate step. BTW -- if you want to get a great start on CW (or build your skills), by all means take advantage of CW Academy. This is the brainchild of K6RB and a few other CWOps members, and it's been quite successful. http://www.cwops.org/ I'm a proud member of CWOps, but not very active. It's a great group. Membership is by invitation. You don't need to be a member to be in CW Academy or the many on-the-air events. Check out the website. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I’m not a CW operator, but if you have any RSI issues from computer use, be careful about spending a lot of time with a straight key. Professional telegraphers got an early version of RSI called “glass arm”. It appears that you can avoid that with excellent technique, the same way you avoid RSI on a computer. But I have not heard of RSI injuries with paddles. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote: Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing? It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers did not exist -- we had bugs, but did start on straight keys. But bugs are inherently different from the paddle/keyer combo. Perhaps one of the CWOps guys who are working with CW Academy can offer an opinion. Mine is that sending good CW is mostly a matter of training our brain and fingers to mimic the good CW that we hear. Unless you're a real straight key pro, they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going through an intermediate step. BTW -- if you want to get a great start on CW (or build your skills), by all means take advantage of CW Academy. This is the brainchild of K6RB and a few other CWOps members, and it's been quite successful. http://www.cwops.org/ I'm a proud member of CWOps, but not very active. It's a great group. Membership is by invitation. You don't need to be a member to be in CW Academy or the many on-the-air events. Check out the website. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead. So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there? On Nov 30, 2014 11:42 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote: Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing? It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers did not exist -- we had bugs, but did start on straight keys. But bugs are inherently different from the paddle/keyer combo. Perhaps one of the CWOps guys who are working with CW Academy can offer an opinion. Mine is that sending good CW is mostly a matter of training our brain and fingers to mimic the good CW that we hear. Unless you're a real straight key pro, they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going through an intermediate step. BTW -- if you want to get a great start on CW (or build your skills), by all means take advantage of CW Academy. This is the brainchild of K6RB and a few other CWOps members, and it's been quite successful. http://www.cwops.org/ I'm a proud member of CWOps, but not very active. It's a great group. Membership is by invitation. You don't need to be a member to be in CW Academy or the many on-the-air events. Check out the website. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I have from the Schurr Profi to home made keys. One of the best I have is the Norcal paddles Kit key,. It’s a magnetic(versus springs ) type key. I did put silver contacts on it. It was picked up by Vibroplex and made as the Code Warrior, I think. I don’t think Elecraft sells the magnetic paddles by Bencher anymore. Another favorite that is in use right now is the N3ZN key, also magnetic tension. Now that my hand has become partially paralyzed, I am using computer key board Keying, and I like it a lot. Probably the wave of the future and the saving technology for CW. Also used for PSK31 and other modes. Leroy AB7CE -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom Blahovici Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:06 PM To: Jim Brown Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead. So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
Tom, As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic. It's really for the advanced CW operator. It requires a double paddle, or squeeze key set and when you squeeze the paddles, you send alternating dits and dahs. Whether you send a dit or a dah first, is a matter if which side you squeezed first. There all kinds of keys out there. As a beginner who most likely is not going to run high speed, almost any paddle set will work as long as the paddles move smoothly. The important thing is that it has a heavy enough base not to move around during excited sending. A Bencher is probably not a bad starting point. It uses a spring to make the paddle work and it doesn't feel all that bad. I use a good Vibroplex most of the time with an old Brown Brothers as my other main paddle set. I also have my first set which is an FYO set that Bencher copied. No matter what kind of paddle set you get, you are going to need to adjust it for you. Whether you get spring loaded or magnetic tension paddles, the watch word is smoothness and response. At low speed response is not usually an issue. The rest of it is cosmetic. If there is a good CW operator near you, go see him and ask to play with his key/paddle set and see what it feels like. And then ask him why he sets his paddles as he does. 73, Barry K3NDM On 12/1/2014 12:05 AM, Tom Blahovici wrote: I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead. So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there? On Nov 30, 2014 11:42 PM, Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote: Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing? It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers did not exist -- we had bugs, but did start on straight keys. But bugs are inherently different from the paddle/keyer combo. Perhaps one of the CWOps guys who are working with CW Academy can offer an opinion. Mine is that sending good CW is mostly a matter of training our brain and fingers to mimic the good CW that we hear. Unless you're a real straight key pro, they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going through an intermediate step. BTW -- if you want to get a great start on CW (or build your skills), by all means take advantage of CW Academy. This is the brainchild of K6RB and a few other CWOps members, and it's been quite successful. http://www.cwops.org/ I'm a proud member of CWOps, but not very active. It's a great group. Membership is by invitation. You don't need to be a member to be in CW Academy or the many on-the-air events. Check out the website. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k3...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW
I couldn't agree more. I'm glad I finally discovered the single-lever paddle after more than ten years of struggling with iambic. It is so much easier to use the single-lever and it is much more forgiving for small timing errors. I wrote about it on my blog some time ago: http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/06/the-advantage-of-single-lever-paddle.html After that I got the tiny Palm single-lever paddle. Barry K3NDM wrote Tom, As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic. - Sverre, LA3ZA K2 #2198, K3 #3391, LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com, LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-CW-decoder-and-CQ-CW-contest-tp7595261p7595290.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Getting Started On CW
When I started out as a Novice in 1964, I was advised to start with a straight key. When I could send well at about 15 wpm, then consider changing over to some kind of speed key. We didn't have iambics then. I switched to homebrew solid state keyer, that I built myself, and a Vibroplex paddle, which I still have. I now use an Idiom Press Super Keyer II, and an iambic paddle. I may not send the greatest code in the world, I'm still learning, but I'm glad that I followed my Elmer's advice. 73, Steve Brandt N7VS ex: WB6VVS, WN6QYP ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
