Re: [Elecraft] [K3] questions about using a sub-receiver

[Cady, Fred]

Hi Robert,

I feel your pain.  The Main and Sub receivers are tremendously flexible and 
figuring it out lead me to write the first Elecraft K3 book.  The latest 
edition, "The Elecraft K3s and P3" might help you learn more, including how 
they both can work separately or together, including the mixing of audio A and 
B, which is very powerful.  You can find the hard copy version on the Elecraft 
web site and pdf version on www.lulu.com.

73,

Fred KE7X


For all Elecraft books and "The Successful Ham Radio Operator's Handbook", see 
www.ke7x.com.


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] questions about using a sub-receiver

[TJ Campie]

the You can consider the 2nd rx as a completely separate radio - unique
filters, unique dsp, etc  And yes, using the SUB function on the front
panel, you can select diversity receive (2nd rx is on the same freq as your
primary VFO, receiving with a different antenna) or normal SUB (2nd rx is
on 2nd vfo frequency on different antenna).  In both cases, the stereo
effect is used to put VFO B in the opposite earphone from VFO A.


73, W0EA
TJ

QRP ARCI #14612 | CW Ops #953 | SKCC #4593T
NAQCC #3768 | Flying Pigs QRP #2254
http://W0EA.us
*Because QRO is too easy (but sometimes required!)*
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] questions about using a sub-receiver

[Grant Youngman]

Just to clarify.  The “yes” answers apply to the questions you posed, not the 
negative which immediately follows.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Mar 5, 2019, at 9:38 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 5, 2019, at 8:57 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If/when I install a sub-receiver in my K3 [SN 6232] will I be able to hear 
>> each receiver separately in each side of my stereo headphones? If so, ok. If 
>> not, is there some way/work around to make this possible?
> 
> Yes 
> 
>> 
>> Is the DSP of the basic radio able to have two concurrent settings, one for 
>> each of the receivers? Or, does each receiver have to share the same 
>> settings?
> 
> The sub receiver is independent.  Sub and main do not have to match.
> 
>> 
>> The same question concerning crystal filters: can one receiver be using its 
>> narrow filter while the other receiver uses a wide filter? Or, do the filter 
>> selections track each other between the two receivers?
>> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091 KX3 #8342
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] questions about using a sub-receiver

[Grant Youngman]

> On Mar 5, 2019, at 8:57 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> If/when I install a sub-receiver in my K3 [SN 6232] will I be able to hear 
> each receiver separately in each side of my stereo headphones? If so, ok. If 
> not, is there some way/work around to make this possible?

Yes 

> 
> Is the DSP of the basic radio able to have two concurrent settings, one for 
> each of the receivers? Or, does each receiver have to share the same settings?

The sub receiver is independent.  Sub and main do not have to match.

> 
> The same question concerning crystal filters: can one receiver be using its 
> narrow filter while the other receiver uses a wide filter? Or, do the filter 
> selections track each other between the two receivers?
> 

Yes

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

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[Elecraft] [K3] questions about using a sub-receiver

[Robert G Strickland via Elecraft]

If/when I install a sub-receiver in my K3 [SN 6232] will I be able to 
hear each receiver separately in each side of my stereo headphones? If 
so, ok. If not, is there some way/work around to make this possible?


Is the DSP of the basic radio able to have two concurrent settings, one 
for each of the receivers? Or, does each receiver have to share the same 
settings?


The same question concerning crystal filters: can one receiver be using 
its narrow filter while the other receiver uses a wide filter? Or, do 
the filter selections track each other between the two receivers?


Thanks in advance for any and all responses. A good day to all.

...robert
--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
rc...@verizon.net.usa
Syracuse, New York, USA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

  If you have the 6-kHz filter installed, you can increase the
  effectiveness of the DSP NB with some kinds of noise in SSB mode; just
  set WIDTH above 2.8 kHz so this wider filter will be selected.

Or modify your configuration so the wider roofing filter is always
selected in SSB G.

Wayne, this is a place the XFIL button could be made more useful ...
allow it to select the roofing filter independent of the Width
(DSP) setting.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2010 12:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
 Scott,

 On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Scott Ellington wrote:

 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of
 about 400 kHz

 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach
 in using the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude
 of the noise pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher
 threshold while, under crowded band conditions, the strongest signal
 remains about the same

 Exactly.

 If you need a narrow-band blanker, use the DSP NB. It is very
 effective on a wide range of noise types, and is post-crystal filter.

 If you have the 6-kHz filter installed, you can increase the
 effectiveness of the DSP NB with some kinds of noise in SSB mode; just
 set WIDTH above 2.8 kHz so this wider filter will be selected.

 Wayne

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Second what Joe said...

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:

   If you have the 6-kHz filter installed, you can increase the
   effectiveness of the DSP NB with some kinds of noise in SSB mode; just
   set WIDTH above 2.8 kHz so this wider filter will be selected.

 Or modify your configuration so the wider roofing filter is always
 selected in SSB G.

 Wayne, this is a place the XFIL button could be made more useful ...
 allow it to select the roofing filter independent of the Width
 (DSP) setting.

 73,

    ... Joe, W4TV


 On 12/14/2010 12:12 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
 Scott,

 On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Scott Ellington wrote:

 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of
 about 400 kHz

 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach
 in using the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude
 of the noise pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher
 threshold while, under crowded band conditions, the strongest signal
 remains about the same

 Exactly.

 If you need a narrow-band blanker, use the DSP NB. It is very
 effective on a wide range of noise types, and is post-crystal filter.

 If you have the 6-kHz filter installed, you can increase the
 effectiveness of the DSP NB with some kinds of noise in SSB mode; just
 set WIDTH above 2.8 kHz so this wider filter will be selected.

 Wayne

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Scott Ellington]

The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of about 400 
kHz, so any strong signal within that bandwidth will affect its operation.  
This is a problem with all noise blankers of this type, as  they can't detect 
noise pulses smaller than the strongest signal within the filter bandwidth.  
Some use a narrower filter, perhaps 15 kHz, to minimize the chance a strong 
signal is in its passband.  That, of course, us usually still far too wide 
during a contest, and the noise blanker just won't work with a narrower 
bandwidth.  One solution is the Evasive Noise Blanker, which essentially uses 
a second receiver to detect noise pulses at a slightly different frequency, for 
example, just outside the ham band.  I may someday investigate trying to do 
that with the K3.

I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach in using the 
very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude of the noise pulses, 
allowing them to be detected at a higher threshold while, under crowded band 
conditions, the strongest signal remains about the same.  

By the way, many have noticed, I'm sure, that noise blankers are at times much 
more effective than at others, even if the characteristics of the noise are the 
same.  Generally, they work great when there are no strong signals around.  
When there are strong signals in the NB filter passband, the noise detection 
threshold goes up as a result of NB AGC action, and the same noise pulses may 
not be detected at all.  That can happen even when the obvious distortion from 
the NB isn't present.

73,

Scott  K9MA


On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, David F. Reed wrote:

 Hi folks;
 
 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they are:
 
   1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
  with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
  signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).
 
  In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
  down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
  that he is about 3 miles away.  Far enough and weak enough that I
  should not be receiving this sort of interference I think, given
  there are no key clicks, etc.
 
  I turn off the NB, and it clears up completely, even 500Hz away,
  let alone 300 or 400 KHz away.   I go back up, no problem except I
  want to use the NB; turn it back on, problem re-appears.
 
  This seems to be an artifact of how the NB is implemented,
  rendering it useless under these sorts of circumstances.
 
  Am I missing something, out of adjustment, or ???
 
   2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
  well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
  like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
  along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged. 
  Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
  rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
  assembly?
 
 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
 __
 

Scott Ellington
Madison, Wisconsin
USA



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Wayne Burdick]

Scott,

On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:28 AM, Scott Ellington wrote:

 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of  
 about 400 kHz

 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach  
 in using the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude  
 of the noise pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher  
 threshold while, under crowded band conditions, the strongest signal  
 remains about the same

Exactly.

If you need a narrow-band blanker, use the DSP NB. It is very  
effective on a wide range of noise types, and is post-crystal filter.

If you have the 6-kHz filter installed, you can increase the  
effectiveness of the DSP NB with some kinds of noise in SSB mode; just  
set WIDTH above 2.8 kHz so this wider filter will be selected.

Wayne

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

The K3 has a dual methodology.  1) DSP and 2) traditional analog IF
pulse detection noise blanking which shuts off the IF for very short
intervals around the pulse.

Doesn't your commentary only apply to the IF NB methods of the K3?
The DSP methods take place in firmware, analyzing and adjusting the
number stream to remove noise.  The very successful key click
suppression only works with the IF method off, and using the DSP
method T2-7 and T3-7.

I agree with your analysis as long as it is qualified to the K3 NB's
IF method. Your reasoning below also pertains to why the IF method
needs to be off for key click suppression.  Digital NB artifacts are
not related to the after-effects of analog IF noise blanking.

I was at first surprised that the analog IF blanking was retained in
the K3.  But over time there have been many posts about successful use
of the IF blanking and IF/DSP combinations, validating Elecraft's
retention, however ancient the issues and artifacts of the IF method
may be.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ellington
sdell...@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of about 400 
 kHz, so any strong signal within that bandwidth will affect its operation.  
 This is a problem with all noise blankers of this type, as  they can't detect 
 noise pulses smaller than the strongest signal within the filter bandwidth.  
 Some use a narrower filter, perhaps 15 kHz, to minimize the chance a strong 
 signal is in its passband.  That, of course, us usually still far too wide 
 during a contest, and the noise blanker just won't work with a narrower 
 bandwidth.  One solution is the Evasive Noise Blanker, which essentially 
 uses a second receiver to detect noise pulses at a slightly different 
 frequency, for example, just outside the ham band.  I may someday investigate 
 trying to do that with the K3.

 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach in using 
 the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude of the noise 
 pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher threshold while, under 
 crowded band conditions, the strongest signal remains about the same.

 By the way, many have noticed, I'm sure, that noise blankers are at times 
 much more effective than at others, even if the characteristics of the noise 
 are the same.  Generally, they work great when there are no strong signals 
 around.  When there are strong signals in the NB filter passband, the noise 
 detection threshold goes up as a result of NB AGC action, and the same noise 
 pulses may not be detected at all.  That can happen even when the obvious 
 distortion from the NB isn't present.

 73,

 Scott  K9MA


 On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, David F. Reed wrote:

 Hi folks;

 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they are:

   1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
      with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
      signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).

      In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
      down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
      that he is about 3 miles away.  Far enough and weak enough that I
      should not be receiving this sort of interference I think, given
      there are no key clicks, etc.

      I turn off the NB, and it clears up completely, even 500Hz away,
      let alone 300 or 400 KHz away.   I go back up, no problem except I
      want to use the NB; turn it back on, problem re-appears.

      This seems to be an artifact of how the NB is implemented,
      rendering it useless under these sorts of circumstances.

      Am I missing something, out of adjustment, or ???

   2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
      well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
      like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
      along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged.
      Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
      rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
      assembly?

 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
 __


 Scott Ellington
 Madison, Wisconsin
 USA



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Scott Ellington]

My comments apply to ONLY the IF (hardware) noise blanker.  Sorry I didn't make 
that clear, but I'm a hardware guy.

The reason for having the IF NB is that short-duration noise pulses, like the 
ubiquitous power line noise, must be detected ahead of narrow bandpass filters, 
which effectively lengthen the pulses.  This allows the noise gate to switch 
off during the short noise pulse, with minimal effect on the desired signals.  
I don't believe any kind of DSP cleverness, applied after the IF crystal 
filter, can be as effective for this kind of noise.  In the absence of strong 
signals, as I'm sure many others have found, these noise blankers can be very 
effective indeed.

73,

Scott  K9MA 


On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

 The K3 has a dual methodology.  1) DSP and 2) traditional analog IF
 pulse detection noise blanking which shuts off the IF for very short
 intervals around the pulse.
 
 Doesn't your commentary only apply to the IF NB methods of the K3?
 The DSP methods take place in firmware, analyzing and adjusting the
 number stream to remove noise.  The very successful key click
 suppression only works with the IF method off, and using the DSP
 method T2-7 and T3-7.
 
 I agree with your analysis as long as it is qualified to the K3 NB's
 IF method. Your reasoning below also pertains to why the IF method
 needs to be off for key click suppression.  Digital NB artifacts are
 not related to the after-effects of analog IF noise blanking.
 
 I was at first surprised that the analog IF blanking was retained in
 the K3.  But over time there have been many posts about successful use
 of the IF blanking and IF/DSP combinations, validating Elecraft's
 retention, however ancient the issues and artifacts of the IF method
 may be.
 
 73, Guy.
 
 On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ellington
 sdell...@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of about 
 400 kHz, so any strong signal within that bandwidth will affect its 
 operation.  This is a problem with all noise blankers of this type, as  they 
 can't detect noise pulses smaller than the strongest signal within the 
 filter bandwidth.  Some use a narrower filter, perhaps 15 kHz, to minimize 
 the chance a strong signal is in its passband.  That, of course, us usually 
 still far too wide during a contest, and the noise blanker just won't work 
 with a narrower bandwidth.  One solution is the Evasive Noise Blanker, 
 which essentially uses a second receiver to detect noise pulses at a 
 slightly different frequency, for example, just outside the ham band.  I may 
 someday investigate trying to do that with the K3.
 
 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach in using 
 the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude of the noise 
 pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher threshold while, under 
 crowded band conditions, the strongest signal remains about the same.
 
 By the way, many have noticed, I'm sure, that noise blankers are at times 
 much more effective than at others, even if the characteristics of the noise 
 are the same.  Generally, they work great when there are no strong signals 
 around.  When there are strong signals in the NB filter passband, the noise 
 detection threshold goes up as a result of NB AGC action, and the same noise 
 pulses may not be detected at all.  That can happen even when the obvious 
 distortion from the NB isn't present.
 
 73,
 
 Scott  K9MA
 
 
 On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, David F. Reed wrote:
 
 Hi folks;
 
 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they are:
 
   1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
  with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
  signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).
 
  In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
  down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
  that he is about 3 miles away.  Far enough and weak enough that I
  should not be receiving this sort of interference I think, given
  there are no key clicks, etc.
 
  I turn off the NB, and it clears up completely, even 500Hz away,
  let alone 300 or 400 KHz away.   I go back up, no problem except I
  want to use the NB; turn it back on, problem re-appears.
 
  This seems to be an artifact of how the NB is implemented,
  rendering it useless under these sorts of circumstances.
 
  Am I missing something, out of adjustment, or ???
 
   2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
  well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
  like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
  along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged.
  Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
  rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Your In the absence of strong signals caveat is a big one.

The entirely DSP key-click nullification works.  I would think that if
a pulse is detected, and the wave shape of the pulse artifact after
filtering is known, that the known shape can be used in some digital
fashion to remove it.  Or to get away from the analog
detect-and-then-remove modus, if the pulse artifact is detected,
simply remove it, no pre-notification required.

I have a pole around here somewhere that goes bad from time to time,
and the pulses are extremely narrow and spikey.  The IF method narrow
3 or 4 gets them nicely --- except when there is a contest and a band
full of very loud signals, in which case the ancient analog
noise-blank artifacts are there too, making it unusable.  The DSP
method is not as clean as the IF on a quiet band, but it does usable
good in a contest.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Scott Ellington
sdell...@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
 My comments apply to ONLY the IF (hardware) noise blanker.  Sorry I didn't 
 make that clear, but I'm a hardware guy.

 The reason for having the IF NB is that short-duration noise pulses, like the 
 ubiquitous power line noise, must be detected ahead of narrow bandpass 
 filters, which effectively lengthen the pulses.  This allows the noise gate 
 to switch off during the short noise pulse, with minimal effect on the 
 desired signals.  I don't believe any kind of DSP cleverness, applied after 
 the IF crystal filter, can be as effective for this kind of noise.  In the 
 absence of strong signals, as I'm sure many others have found, these noise 
 blankers can be very effective indeed.

 73,

 Scott  K9MA


 On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

 The K3 has a dual methodology.  1) DSP and 2) traditional analog IF
 pulse detection noise blanking which shuts off the IF for very short
 intervals around the pulse.

 Doesn't your commentary only apply to the IF NB methods of the K3?
 The DSP methods take place in firmware, analyzing and adjusting the
 number stream to remove noise.  The very successful key click
 suppression only works with the IF method off, and using the DSP
 method T2-7 and T3-7.

 I agree with your analysis as long as it is qualified to the K3 NB's
 IF method. Your reasoning below also pertains to why the IF method
 needs to be off for key click suppression.  Digital NB artifacts are
 not related to the after-effects of analog IF noise blanking.

 I was at first surprised that the analog IF blanking was retained in
 the K3.  But over time there have been many posts about successful use
 of the IF blanking and IF/DSP combinations, validating Elecraft's
 retention, however ancient the issues and artifacts of the IF method
 may be.

 73, Guy.

 On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ellington
 sdell...@facstaff.wisc.edu wrote:
 The K3 noise blanker bandpass filter appears to have a bandwidth of about 
 400 kHz, so any strong signal within that bandwidth will affect its 
 operation.  This is a problem with all noise blankers of this type, as  
 they can't detect noise pulses smaller than the strongest signal within the 
 filter bandwidth.  Some use a narrower filter, perhaps 15 kHz, to minimize 
 the chance a strong signal is in its passband.  That, of course, us usually 
 still far too wide during a contest, and the noise blanker just won't work 
 with a narrower bandwidth.  One solution is the Evasive Noise Blanker, 
 which essentially uses a second receiver to detect noise pulses at a 
 slightly different frequency, for example, just outside the ham band.  I 
 may someday investigate trying to do that with the K3.

 I'm just guessing, but it seems Elecraft took a different approach in using 
 the very wide bandwidth.  This increases the peak amplitude of the noise 
 pulses, allowing them to be detected at a higher threshold while, under 
 crowded band conditions, the strongest signal remains about the same.

 By the way, many have noticed, I'm sure, that noise blankers are at times 
 much more effective than at others, even if the characteristics of the 
 noise are the same.  Generally, they work great when there are no strong 
 signals around.  When there are strong signals in the NB filter passband, 
 the noise detection threshold goes up as a result of NB AGC action, and the 
 same noise pulses may not be detected at all.  That can happen even when 
 the obvious distortion from the NB isn't present.

 73,

 Scott  K9MA


 On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, David F. Reed wrote:

 Hi folks;

 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they 
 are:

   1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
      with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
      signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).

      In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
      down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
      that he is about 3 miles away.  Far 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Hardy,

Known issue with some runs of the small knobs.  Contact
k3supp...@elecraft.com and they'll get you replacements.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 12/12/2010 12:02 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote:
 Hi All,
 I just had my first failure on the K3. I noticed both the AF  RF small
 knobs were slipping so I thought the set screws were loose. But closer
 examination showed that both knobs were cracked. I replaced them with some
 small aluminum ones from Radio Shack. I don't think I over tightened the
 knobs when I built the radio.
 Is this a problem with other radios? Maybe I got a bad pair.
 73 Hardy N7RT

 - Original Message -
 From: David F. Reedw5sv.d...@gmail.com
 To: elecraft Reflectorelecraft@mailman.qth.net;
 elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 8:59 AM
 Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes


 Hi folks;

2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
   well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
   like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
   along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged.
   Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
   rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
   assembly?

 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[David F. Reed]

Hi folks;

Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they are:

   1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
  with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
  signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).

  In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
  down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
  that he is about 3 miles away.  Far enough and weak enough that I
  should not be receiving this sort of interference I think, given
  there are no key clicks, etc.

  I turn off the NB, and it clears up completely, even 500Hz away,
  let alone 300 or 400 KHz away.   I go back up, no problem except I
  want to use the NB; turn it back on, problem re-appears.

  This seems to be an artifact of how the NB is implemented,
  rendering it useless under these sorts of circumstances.

  Am I missing something, out of adjustment, or ???

   2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
  well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
  like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
  along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged. 
  Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
  rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
  assembly?

Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Tony Estep]

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:59 AM, David F. Reed w5sv.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 ...with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
  signal pumping


Dave, this is gonna happen with any noise blanker. When I turn on NB on my
Brand Y radio, I can hear artifacts from a medium strength CW signal 100 kc
away -- way worse than the K3. Still, I use NB all the time. There are 2
huge hospitals a few miles away radiating a magnificent panoply of man-made
hash, grinding, static, crunches, groans and hisses. In my noisy location,
an NB is so valuable that I am just happy to have one that kills the noise;
I'll live with the pumping.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Vic K2VCO]

This is the way most analog noise blankers work. They look at a wide bandwidth 
to detect 
noise pulses and if there are loud signals in the range they can be interpreted 
as noise.

The K3 has both an analog and a DSP noise blanker. If there are large nearby 
signals, you 
should reduce the aggressiveness of the analog (or 'IF') blanker. You can do 
this by 
holding the NB button and then turning the VFO A knob. The DSP noise blanker -- 
which will 
not be affected by off-frequency signals -- is adjusted with the VFO B knob.

Depending on the type of noise and signals on the band, you will want to use 
different 
'mixes' of analog and DSP noise blanker adjustments.

Regarding the power switch, I've found that a cat is highly effective at 
reducing nibbling 
by mice (just kidding, ask Elecraft for a fix)!

On 12/12/2010 7:59 AM, David F. Reed wrote:
 Hi folks;

 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and gripes; here they are:

 1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up around 28.400 operating SSB
with the NB on, when I noticed that I was getting a strong CW
signal pumping my AGC (or so it seemed).

In doing a little research, I found the cw station responsible was
down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by call, I know the station and
that he is about 3 miles away.  Far enough and weak enough that I
should not be receiving this sort of interference I think, given
there are no key clicks, etc.

I turn off the NB, and it clears up completely, even 500Hz away,
let alone 300 or 400 KHz away.   I go back up, no problem except I
want to use the NB; turn it back on, problem re-appears.

This seems to be an artifact of how the NB is implemented,
rendering it useless under these sorts of circumstances.

Am I missing something, out of adjustment, or ???

 2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged.
Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
assembly?

 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
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-- 
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Hardy Landskov]

Hi All,
I just had my first failure on the K3. I noticed both the AF  RF small 
knobs were slipping so I thought the set screws were loose. But closer 
examination showed that both knobs were cracked. I replaced them with some 
small aluminum ones from Radio Shack. I don't think I over tightened the 
knobs when I built the radio.
Is this a problem with other radios? Maybe I got a bad pair.
73 Hardy N7RT

- Original Message - 
From: David F. Reed w5sv.d...@gmail.com
To: elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net; 
elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 8:59 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes


 Hi folks;

   2. The power switch - early serial number (1476); my power switch -
  well the rubber / plastic part you press on - is starting to look
  like a mouse has nibbled on it, with little divots falling off
  along the top and right side edges.  It is looking quite ragged.
  Has anyone else had this, or know if I can replace just the
  rubber/plastic part, or do I need to replace the entire switch
  assembly?

 Thanks and 73 de Dave, W5SV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions and gripes

[Wes Stewart]

If you look at the K3 schematic you can see that the noise blanker takeoff 
point is at the output of the first post mixer amplifier.  The bandwidth here 
is necessarily wide.  In the blanker itself, there is a double-tuned bandpass 
filter at the input of the noise amplifier(s).  I don't know what the bandwidth 
of this is, but to minimize the effects on the risetime of noise pulses, it 
should be as broad as possible.

There are then a couple of opportunities for mischief.

1) Strong signals get into the noise amplifier and overdrive the first stage

2) Any signal getting into the noise amplifier that is strong enough to exceed 
the blanking threshold looks like noise and generates blanking pulses.  

That is simply the nature of the beast.

Wes  N7WS

--- On Sun, 12/12/10, David F. Reed w5sv.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi folks;
 
 Yes, I really love my K3 in spite of my questions and
 gripes; here they are:
 
    1. During the 10 meter contest, I was up
 around 28.400 operating SSB
       with the NB on, when I noticed that I
 was getting a strong CW
       signal pumping my AGC (or so it
 seemed).
 
       In doing a little research, I found
 the cw station responsible was
       down at 28.023, at about S9+40 db; by
 call, I know the station and
       that he is about 3 miles away. 
 Far enough and weak enough that I
       should not be receiving this sort of
 interference I think, given
       there are no key clicks, etc.
 
       I turn off the NB, and it clears up
 completely, even 500Hz away,
       let alone 300 or 400 KHz
 away.   I go back up, no problem except I
       want to use the NB; turn it back on,
 problem re-appears.
 
       This seems to be an artifact of how
 the NB is implemented,
       rendering it useless under these sorts
 of circumstances.
 
       Am I missing something, out of
 adjustment, or ???
 
 


  
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions posted

[rfenabled]

IMHO

1. I didn't think questions posted on the reflector HAD to be answered or 
commented on

2. When a touch of sarcasm is detected I for one, immediately reach for the 
Delete key

But it is a lovely day and my construction is going well so the smile is firmly 
planted across my face, as rough looking as that may be...(:-))

73's
Gary
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions posted

[James Sarte]

Are you writing this in response to my encoder noise question?

If so, what exactly was the point of this message?

Too bad about not being able to handle a little sarcasm as well...

Cheers,
James K2QI

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of rfenab...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:17 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Questions posted

IMHO

1. I didn't think questions posted on the reflector HAD to be answered or
commented on

2. When a touch of sarcasm is detected I for one, immediately reach for the
Delete key

But it is a lovely day and my construction is going well so the smile is
firmly planted across my face, as rough looking as that may be...(:-))

73's
Gary
Sent via BlackBerryR from Telstra
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions posted

[Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft]

Guys,
Please take the personal comments off list.

Eric 
Elecraft list moderator 

James Sarte k2qi@gmail.com wrote:

Are you writing this in response to my encoder noise question?

If so, what exactly was the point of this message?

Too bad about not being able to handle a little sarcasm as well...

Cheers,
James K2QI

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of rfenab...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:17 PM
To: Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Questions posted

IMHO

1. I didn't think questions posted on the reflector HAD to be answered or
commented on

2. When a touch of sarcasm is detected I for one, immediately reach for the
Delete key

But it is a lovely day and my construction is going well so the smile is
firmly planted across my face, as rough looking as that may be...(:-))

73's
Gary
Sent via BlackBerryR from Telstra
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi Doug,

 Can someone explain to me why the above/below results
 for these two filters are so disparate at these narrow
 spacings?

Let me speculate...

you might want to read the description by PA3AKE, especially the 
chapters on his development of his roofers:


http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/index.html

He talks about, among other things, how important clean surfaces are for 
good IMD performance in crystals filters.


-
Quartz and IMD

The surface finish plays a big role in the linearity of the
quartz. Particles (micro dust) polluting the surface of the
quartz are known to cause IMD. To make things considerably
worse, the IMD they cause is not following 3rd order law by
any means.

(from the PA3AKE website)
-

Sherwood also mentions this in the information (in one of the audio 
files, if I remember correctly) available at his web site.


If one of the crystals in the filter is dusty then you ought to see an 
immediate difference.


My 2700Hz filter, if our numbers (DD5FZ  DK4YJ) are really correct, is 
better than the ARRL filter but the difference is not major. I assume 
this is due to normal variance which occurs during the production 
process (and minor differences in the calibration of the measurement 
equipment).


Also the 8 pole 2800Hz filter is likely to have a bit more attenuation 
in the passband than a 5 pole filter, which may have a minor affect on 
the amount of IMD in the post filter IF amps and second mixer. All of 
this could combine to explain the differences at 1kHz and 2kHz spacing.


On the other hand, at 20kHz both filters are almost identical, so a 
dusty quartz crystal may not be part of the reason after all.



 review suggests that the observed asymmetry is quite unusual

For many filter topologies the asymmetry is perfectly normal. Not to 
forget that in a design such as the K3, it's the first 20dB to 30dB of 
stop band attenuation which are really important. The final total 
selectivity comes from the DSP filter and not from the roofing filter.


This said, I am playing with idea of rolling my own roofing filters for 
my K3 for three reasons. Firstly, can a couple dBs be tickled out by 
using extremely good crystals (expensive!)? Secondly, it should be 
educational. And most importantly, HAMs just wanna have fun.



One thing the ARRL report does show, and I agree with this after having 
a 2700Hz filter in my K3 for about a year now, the five pole 2700Hz 
filter is plenty good. An 8 pole filter (i.e. the 2800Hz filter) does 
not appear to be necessary.


vy 73 de toby

--
DD5FZ (ex 4n6fz, dj7mgq, dg5mgq, dd5fz)
K2 #885, K2/100 #3248, K3/100 #67

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Toby Deinhardt wrote on Thursday, November 27, 2008 at 9:17 AM:

you might want to read the description by PA3AKE, especially the chapters 
on his development of his roofers:


http://www.xs4all.nl/~martein/pa3ake/hmode/index.html

He talks about, among other things, how important clean surfaces are for 
good IMD performance in crystals filters.


Toby,

I'll second that, I am using the same 9MHz crystals that Martein uses.

Not to forget that in a design such as the K3, it's the first 20dB to 30dB 
of stop band attenuation which are really important.


Maybe, assuming that the IMD performance of the roofer and ALL stages which 
follow the roofer is good enough at those spacings.


This said, I am playing with idea of rolling my own roofing filters for my 
K3 for three reasons. Firstly, can a couple dBs be tickled out by using 
extremely good crystals (expensive!)? Secondly, it should be educational. 
And most importantly, HAMs just wanna have fun.


Something to bear in mind is that the passband insertion loss of a 
quadrature type roofer using good crystals is less than that of most roofing 
filters of the same bandwidth, which will increase signal levels at the IF's 
input all other things being equal. The difference can be as much as 6 - 8db 
in the case of a 500 Hz roofer. Also if you do build these filters, include 
a shield so that the input - output hybrids do not see one another and 
forget about using disc ceramic capacitors - bad for IMD!


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi Geoff,


 Not to forget that in a design such as the K3, it's the first 20dB to
 30dB of stop band attenuation which are really important.

 Maybe, assuming that the IMD performance of the roofer and ALL stages
 which follow the roofer is good enough at those spacings.

It also depends on whether you are talking about signals within the pass 
band of the roofing filter or signals in the stop band. I would argue 
that within the roofing pass band the K3 does have weaknesses, but if 
the roofing filter bandwidth is close to the DSP bandwidth, then these 
become secondary as other aspects such as TX and RX phase noise will 
start to become limiting factors, especially at narrow bandwidths.



 Something to bear in mind is that the passband insertion loss of a
 quadrature type roofer using good crystals is less than that of most
 roofing filters of the same bandwidth, which will increase signal
 levels at the IF's input all other things being equal. The difference
 can be as much as 6 - 8db in the case of a 500 Hz roofer.

Which could be taken care of by using a 6dB resistive pad, should the 
lower loss become a problem. I rather doubt that a quadrature type will 
fit into the space which Elecraft has alloted per filter. It could be 
the largest challenge if I decide to go the path which you and Martein have.



 disc ceramic capacitors - bad for IMD!

Full Ack.


very 73 de toby


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Lyle Johnson]

Table 2 of the ARRL review finally answered my questions about the relative
performance of the 2700 and 2800 Hz filters at 1 Hz and 2 Hz spacing. The
results are very impressive. Can someone explain to me why the above/below
results for these two filters are so disparate at these narrow spacings?


There are really two questions here.

The first question has to do with the skirt selectivity of the roofing 
filter.


If you look at the larger values of attenuation (134 vs 115, or 113 vs 
93) the result is mostly due to the difference in shape factor of the 
roofing filter.  Expressed differently, an 8-pole filter is likely to 
have a steeper slope in its selectivity curve than a 5-pole filter.


The second question has to do with the difference between the above and 
below values for a given filter when the signal spacing is less than the 
nominal width of the filter.


This asymmetry is due to the way in which the K3 aligns the roofing and 
DSP filter passbands.  The signal is not necessarily centered in the 
roofing filter passband; rather, the signal is shifted towards an edge 
to maximize the use of the roofing filter's skirt selectivity.


Why is this important?

Consider the case in which you are using a wider filter in a crowded 
band while operating CW.  A huge signal appears very close by, perhaps 1 
or 2 kHz away.  The use of CW REV or CW may make a considerable 
difference on the impact of that signal on the receiver.  If the 
passbands were centered, this tool would be less effective.


And if huge signal are on both sides?  Time to get a narrower roofing 
filter!


73 and Happy Thanksgiving,

Lyle KK7P

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi Lyle,

If you look at the larger values of attenuation (134 vs 115, or 113 vs 
93) the result is mostly due to the difference in shape factor of the 
roofing filter.  Expressed differently, an 8-pole filter is likely to 
have a steeper slope in its selectivity curve than a 5-pole filter.


But on the other hand, AFAIK, an 8 pole filter will tend to be more 
likely to create higher distortion of the Nutzsignal due to group and 
phase delay, ringing, etc. at each pole. So more poles is not always 
better than less poles.


vy 73 de toby
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi lyle  the List,

... higher distortion of the Nutzsignal due ...

das Nutzsignal = the wanted signal

Sorry about the German which kinda snuck in.

vy 73 de toby

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Toby Deinhardt wrote on Thursday, November 27, 2008 3:33 PM:

Hi Toby,

It also depends on whether you are talking about signals within the pass 
band of the roofing filter or signals in the stop band. I would argue that 
within the roofing pass band the K3 does have weaknesses, but if the 
roofing filter bandwidth is close to the DSP bandwidth, then these become 
secondary as other aspects such as TX and RX phase noise will start to 
become limiting factors, especially at narrow bandwidths.


Putting aside the K3 and thinking in the context of receivers in general, if 
you plot the Input IP3 of a ladder crystal filter vs frequency you will find 
that in most cases the value of its IIP3 has not reached a maximum untill 
the frequency is well into the upper and lower stopbands. For example the 
IIP3 of the 500Hz quadrature ladder filter that I use starts to decrease 
from + 55dbm at delta 6kHz from centre passband frequency, to a minimum of + 
34 dbm at delta 500Hz, stays between +34dbm and +38dbm until reaching the 
opposite delta 600 Hz, then increases back to near +54 dbm at delta 10kHz 
before settling.


Now if the plot of a filter's IIP3 is superimposed onto the plot of its 
frequency response it then becomes possible to determine relatively quickly, 
in the context of Gain Distribution, what is the level of two or more 
signals appearing in the skirt and stopband regions and their positions that 
will result in noticeable IMD products generated by the filter appearing in 
the passband. This is why I said maybe with ladder filters in mind, and is 
one of the reasons why three and four tone IMD tests are used by some.


I agree with your comment about RX LO phase noise which must be suitably low 
if one objective is good in-passband performance, which also requires a 
bullet proof IF. Surprisingly TX phase noise has not been an issue here, 
even when digging out a SSB DX station sitting between very strong 40m BC 
stations.


  Something to bear in mind is that the passband insertion loss of a

 quadrature type roofer using good crystals is less than that of most
 roofing filters of the same bandwidth, which will increase signal
 levels at the IF's input all other things being equal. The difference
 can be as much as 6 - 8db in the case of a 500 Hz roofer.

Which could be taken care of by using a 6dB resistive pad, should the 
lower loss become a problem.


A pity to lose any potential improvement in overall noise figure by doing 
that, especially on the higher bands!


73,
Geoff
GM4ESD




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Toby Deinhardt]

Hi Geoff,

 Which could be taken care of by using a 6dB resistive pad, should the
 lower loss become a problem.

 A pity to lose any potential improvement in overall noise figure by
 doing that, especially on the higher bands!

Yep. It would be nice to avoid the resistive pad but any gain on the 
high bands could be detrimental on the lower. A problem if your two 
favorite shortwave bands are 160m and 10m.


Of course front end attenuation is only a button push away...


 Putting aside the K3 and thinking in the context of receivers in...

Thanks for pointing this out.


vy 73 de toby

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[Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Douglas G. Bonett]

Table 2 of the ARRL review finally answered my questions about the relative
performance of the 2700 and 2800 Hz filters at 1 Hz and 2 Hz spacing. The
results are very impressive. Can someone explain to me why the above/below
results for these two filters are so disparate at these narrow spacings?  The
review suggests that the observed asymmetry is quite unusual. Is the performance
of a radio most accurately described by the larger or the smaller of the
above/below values? Is the asymmetry due to a design problem in the roofing
filters or something in the K3 circuitry? If the asymmetry could be corrected by
a change in roofing filter design, would the above/below values both become
similar to the average of the two values? For instance, would the 94/81 IMD
values at 1 kH spacing for a redesigned 2800 Hz filter approach 87.5/87.5, which
would be a truly spectacular result for a radio with a single 2800 Hz roofing
filter. 

Doug N0HH  (K3/10 #1213)


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Questions about ARRL review

[Don Wilhelm]

Doug,

I have never seen a crystal filter that is truly symmetrical.  That is 
just the facts of life.  The real question is, just how much asymmetry 
is the user willing to tolerate.  Since this is a roofing filter, and 
not the ultimate filter for the K3, I tend to believe that the 5 pole 
filter is adequate for my purposes.  YMMV.


73,
Don W3FPR

Douglas G. Bonett wrote:

Table 2 of the ARRL review finally answered my questions about the relative
performance of the 2700 and 2800 Hz filters at 1 Hz and 2 Hz spacing. The
results are very impressive. Can someone explain to me why the above/below
results for these two filters are so disparate at these narrow spacings?  The
review suggests that the observed asymmetry is quite unusual. Is the performance
of a radio most accurately described by the larger or the smaller of the
above/below values? Is the asymmetry due to a design problem in the roofing
filters or something in the K3 circuitry? If the asymmetry could be corrected by
a change in roofing filter design, would the above/below values both become
similar to the average of the two values? For instance, would the 94/81 IMD
values at 1 kH spacing for a redesigned 2800 Hz filter approach 87.5/87.5, which
would be a truly spectacular result for a radio with a single 2800 Hz roofing
filter. 
  


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[Elecraft] [K3] Questions and K3 options? Please!

[Norm Duxbury]

I am a cw guy and use the standard 2.7 kHz 5-pole filter and the 400 Hz 
8-pole filter.  I find them to be an excellent combination.

73, Norm - W1MO 
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions

[W0JFR]

Two questions:
1. I hear weak hetrodynes on 20m about every 1 KHz from 13.900 to roughly
14.040 MHz. I removed the antenna and got the same. Is this normal? If not,
what do I do to get rid of them? 

2. The advertised power of the K3 is 100w, but it allows you to go to 120w
(my wattmeter actually shows 117w out). Are there any problems or cautions
running power greater than 100w?

Thanks,
  - 73, John, W0JFR
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[G4ILO]

W0JFR wrote:
 
 Two questions:
 1. I hear weak hetrodynes on 20m about every 1 KHz from 13.900 to roughly
 14.040 MHz. I removed the antenna and got the same. Is this normal? If
 not, what do I do to get rid of them? 
 
 2. The advertised power of the K3 is 100w, but it allows you to go to 120w
 (my wattmeter actually shows 117w out). Are there any problems or cautions
 running power greater than 100w?
 
 
1. Check for good metal to metal contact where all the cabinet parts join,
particularly the internal screen. Make sure the sprogs aren't getting in
anywhere else, like the RS-232 cable.

2. As mentioned elsewhere by Eric, 5dB worse IMD in SSB. Considering the
difference between 100 and 120W won't be noticeable at the other end, it
isn't worth using it.

-
Julian, G4ILO  K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Joe Word]

1. How many volts is the mic bias?

2. Why does the filter selection always end in 5 (2.65, 2.75, 2.85  etc)?

3. Can the Absolute S Meter function be set to ignore the RF Gain setting?



Thanks and 73,

Joe  N9VX

K3  #841
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[lyle johnson]

1. How many volts is the mic bias?


Rear Panel: 8V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel: 5V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel Mic Jack pin 6: 8V always on.


2. Why does the filter selection always end in 5 (2.65, 2.75, 2.85  etc)?


The filter system is currently handled in 50 Hz steps.  Might change in a 
future firmware rev.
 

3. Can the Absolute S Meter function be set to ignore the RF Gain setting?


It always takes the IF AGC control voltage into account.  Since that voltage 
could be generated by a signal or the RF Gain control, the S Meter assumes it 
is a signal and applies it to the calculation.


73,

Lyle KK7P
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[n4lq]

Confusion still reins about the front panel mic. jack. The manual says pin 6 
has 8v. This post says 5v when BIAS is on. So I measured it.

Front Panel Mic. Jack:
Pin 2 (PTT) has 5V no matter if BIAS is on or off.
Pin 6 has 8 V always on.

Steve Ellington
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: lyle johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Joe Word [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions



1. How many volts is the mic bias?


Rear Panel: 8V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel: 5V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel Mic Jack pin 6: 8V always on.

2. Why does the filter selection always end in 5 (2.65, 2.75, 2.85  
etc)?


The filter system is currently handled in 50 Hz steps.  Might change in a
future firmware rev.

3. Can the Absolute S Meter function be set to ignore the RF Gain 
setting?


It always takes the IF AGC control voltage into account.  Since that 
voltage
could be generated by a signal or the RF Gain control, the S Meter assumes 
it

is a signal and applies it to the calculation.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: 5/15/2008 
7:24 AM


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[lyle johnson]

... The manual says pin 6 
has 8v. This post says 5v when BIAS is on.


You may have misread my post, or I may not have been sufficiently clear.

Front panel Mic Jack Pin 1 (Mic Audio) has 5V if and only if BIAS is set on, 
such as you might need for electret microphones.  Otherwise it has none, as 
required for dynamic microphones.



Front Panel Mic. Jack:
Pin 2 (PTT) has 5V no matter if BIAS is on or off.


Yes, PTT has nothing to do with MIC BIAS.  This voltage is present so the 
radio can tell when you ground the pin to signal that you wish to transmit.



Pin 6 has 8 V always on.



Rear Panel: 8V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel: 5V when BIAS is on.
Front Panel Mic Jack pin 6: 8V always on.


We are in complete agreement.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Toby Pennington]

Does Elecraft build their own modules or are they contracted out to a 3rd 
party?   

IS keying for CW done with relays or with diodes?

Since serial number 31 was a kit,  is there a second production line for 
assembled units, or do they only have one production line for both kits and 
assembled units?   If they are  working on kits and assembled units on one 
production line then it will be some time to get the first production run 
shipped assuming a production run is 200 units.  

Looking at this as an outsider,  and based on the fact that #31 was just 
received by its owner,  it would seem most of orders in house will not be 
shipped out until sometime next year. 

Toby  W4CAK

 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Vic K2VCO]

Toby Pennington wrote:

Does Elecraft build their own modules or are they contracted out to a
3rd party?


A subcontractor builds the boards.


IS keying for CW done with relays or with diodes?


Keying is all solid-state.


Since serial number 31 was a kit,  is there a second production line
for assembled units, or do they only have one production line for
both kits and assembled units?   If they are  working on kits and
assembled units on one production line then it will be some time to
get the first production run shipped assuming a production run is 200
units.


I can't answer this since I don't work for Elecraft, but it would only 
be logical to have separate assembly lines, since kitting and assembly 
are totally different jobs.



Looking at this as an outsider,  and based on the fact that #31 was
just received by its owner,  it would seem most of orders in house
will not be shipped out until sometime next year.


If you make the assumption that the rate of production won't increase 
over time -- which is highly unlikely, to say the least!

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Elecraft] K3 questions

[mwt]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Julian G4ILO]

On 8/21/07, Lyle Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ...Does the K3 require the use of a null modem cable?

 No, a standard, straight-through, pin-for-pin, male-to-female, 9-pin
 serial cable is all that is required.

 73,

 Lyle KK7P

Will one made to K2 specs be OK, or are other RS-232 signals required
to be connected?
-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Lyle Johnson]

...Does the K3 require the use of a null modem cable?

No, a standard, straight-through, pin-for-pin, male-to-female, 9-pin
serial cable is all that is required.


Will one made to K2 specs be OK, or are other RS-232 signals required
to be connected?


The 3-wire cable for the K2 will work for getting data into and out from 
the K3.  If you wish to use RTS or DTR for PTT and/or keying, then these 
lines must be connected.


73,

Lyle KK7P

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[Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Bob Wehking]

While I wait for my K3 to arrive, I need to make an RS232 cable from the
K3 to my computer serial port. Does the K3 require the use of a null
modem cable? I assume to control the K3 with Ham Radio Deluxe 
Logger32, data needs to be transmitted back  forth between the rig 
the software program via a RS232 port on the PC. Does this information
come from the accessory connector  if so what pin outs would be used?

 

Bob

WB8DDI



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Lyle Johnson]

...Does the K3 require the use of a null modem cable? 


No, a standard, straight-through, pin-for-pin, male-to-female, 9-pin 
serial cable is all that is required.


73,

Lyle KK7P

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Re[2]: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Corboy-Poteet]

David. let me pose a question: if you converted the digitized voice
signal to mp3 or ogg format, is this similar to (or the same as) a
freq domain data stream?  The data compression from CD wav file to mp3
is around 10 to 1; you are certainly not storing a digital copy of the
sound wave.  Voice compression may not be so good but still should
result in the need to transfer considerably less data in order to
assure a useful voice recovery on the receiving end.

Mike  W5FTD





 Stuart Rohre wrote:
 In the basics of digitizing the signal you have to clock the conversion at 
 least twice the highest frequency you want to reproduce in the voice (or 
 audio) signal.

 That's only at the input to the encoding chain (and technically it is 
 twice the bandwidth, not twice the highest frequency).

 However, I would imagine all digital modes that would be used for 
 communications, rather than broadcasting (and for that matter, also 
 those used in modern broadcasting systems) don't send time domain data.
   One way or another they send frequency domain data, often in the form
 of just the formant frequencies used in a model of vocal tract resonances.

 The critical rate for these systems is the syllable rate, not the 
 frequency of the highest component.  I seem to remember that the 
 military were using 2400 bits per second codecs maybe a couple of 
 decades ago.I suspect that was partly do do with how fast they could
 encrypt.

 Mobile phone codecs tend to be vocal tract model based, although they 
 use more than 2400 bps so that the voice sounds reasonably natural (but
 try them on modem tones or even music!).

 To get much better than 2400 bps, I think you would probably have to 
 recognize phonemes, which is basically the continuous speech voice 
 recognition problem.  I think that might get you down to about 300
 bits per second.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[David Woolley]

Corboy-Poteet wrote:

David. let me pose a question: if you converted the digitized voice
signal to mp3 or ogg format, is this similar to (or the same as) a


I don't know the fine details of ogg, but mp3 is certainly frequency 
domain, and I think ogg will be the same.


mp3 is fairly complicated, and designed for music, which is more 
demanding that speech.  It basically works by noting that the ear cannot 
detect weak sounds close in frequency to strong ones (the K2 is a bad 
ear!) and therefore doesn't bother encoding those weak frequencies, but 
in the end, everything is coded as the spectrum not the time domain 
signal.  (This is very simplified, because I cannot remember the fine 
details).



freq domain data stream?  The data compression from CD wav file to mp3
is around 10 to 1; you are certainly not storing a digital copy of the


Actually, that's the compression used to try and match CD quality.  For 
speech, you can get away with about 16kbs (good enough for mono language 
practice; if I remember correctly, the codec will go down to 8kbps).



--
David Woolley
Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want.
RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam,
that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Julian G4ILO]

On 6/27/07, Corboy-Poteet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I am not a big voice mode fan but I do believe that SSB is headed
toward the same ditch currently occupied by AM.  Maybe Elecraft can
help set the direction for future voice modes.


Isn't digital voice just another fad like some of the new data modes?
I don't know much about it, but as a digital mode, I guess that you
get perfect copy until the signal falls below a certain level, after
which you don't hear anything at all. This seems to be counter to the
main ham radio interest of working weak DX stations. I understand
people's interest in experimenting, but don't see any real use for
digital voice on the HF bands. As an experimental mode it seems
inappropriate to support it directly within the K3.
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
www.Ham-Directory.com: the best ham resources on the net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[John GM4SLV]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Julian G4ILO wrote:

 On 6/27/07, Corboy-Poteet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I am not a big voice mode fan but I do believe that SSB is headed
  toward the same ditch currently occupied by AM.  Maybe Elecraft can
  help set the direction for future voice modes.
 
 Isn't digital voice just another fad like some of the new data modes?
 I don't know much about it, but as a digital mode, I guess that you
 get perfect copy until the signal falls below a certain level, after
 which you don't hear anything at all.

...then you switch to analogue SSB until the signal goes below the 
threshold of S/N that makes SSB readable, after which you switch to CW 
and give yourself another 17dB to play with...

 This seems to be counter to the main ham radio interest of working 
 weak DX stations. I understand people's interest in experimenting, but 
 don't see any real use for digital voice on the HF bands. 

I think the same about analogue voice modes  ;-)

Cheers,

John GM4SLV

-- 
G-GRP-Club 2377, QRP-ARCI 12384, SKCC 3214
Member : RSGB, ARRL
Shetland Islands (EU-012) IP90GG
Lerwick Radio Club : http://www.gm3zet.org
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions. ..DVoice

[Bill NY9H]

At 03:29 AM 6/27/2007, John GM4SLV wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007, Julian G4ILO wrote:

...then you switch to analogue SSB until the signal goes below the
threshold of S/N that makes SSB readable, after which you switch to CW
and give yourself another 17dB to play with...


when icom demos their dstar digital audio, they suggest that the 
digital will work 'deeper' into the noise than the analog.  my 
concern when a fireman or cop is at the fringe,,, which will get thru 
the message ??? who cares if it is scratchy if it gets thru...  kinda 
like us  . did we make the contact , get the info or not.
Already there is some flak i read about background noise at a fire 
scene can confuse and disrupt CURRENT digital audio on public service radios.


Would be cool for Digital Lyle ( ericwayne) to have a digital audio 
mode available for the k3 esp if we can change out the algorithm 
as they improve...


bill 


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Re[2]: [Elecraft] K3 Questions. ..DVoice

[Corboy-Poteet]

Stuart, what bandwidth do the Public Service people use on their
digital systems?  And let me ask you my earlier question: what happens
on digital voice when you decrease the bandwidth on reception? Can you
significantly improve signal-to-noise by narrowing the bandwidth (with
only a loss of fidelity)?  Or does digital voice have no tolerance for
bandwidth reduction; that is, you need basically all of the bits in
order to provide intelligible audio out.

Mike   W5FTD



 Absolutely good points about the fail soft nature of analogue signals.
 While the new digital systems usually have a threshold, and fail hard, ie,
 the message does not get thru even partially, after a certain loss of signal
 point!

 This is why analogue ham communications get thru in disasters, and many
 Public Safety systems do not, as they depend more and more on go/ no go
 digital systems.

 -Stuart
 K5KVH
 retired fireman 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Matthew D. Pitts]

Guys,

I'm finally getting around to asking a question about the K3 that will help 
a fellow ham decide whether or not he will be buying one; does it currently, 
or is it possible for a future firmware revision, for it to support voice 
feedback? My friend's reason for wanting to know is because his wife, who is 
also a licensed Amateur, is blind, and any HF Radio needs to be something 
she can use when he's not around to help her with it.


Matthew Pitts
N8OHU
K2 #5956 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions

[ab7r]

Matthew,

This is covered well in the FAQ.  But for a short answer, yes.  Withe the 
optional 
DVR installed, a portion of the available space for recording is reserved for 
audio 
feedback for just such cases.  I believe this is still being tested so I am not 
sure exactly which control items will give audio feedback, but certainly 
frequency 
and mode.  Probably which XFIL is selected as well.  I'm sure there's more, but 
I 
don't have the exact info yet.  When a final list is available, I will post it 
on 
the FAQ page.

Thanks.

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Wed Jun 27 17:14 , Matthew D. Pitts  sent:

Guys,

I'm finally getting around to asking a question about the K3 that will help 
a fellow ham decide whether or not he will be buying one; does it currently, 
or is it possible for a future firmware revision, for it to support voice 
feedback? My friend's reason for wanting to know is because his wife, who is 
also a licensed Amateur, is blind, and any HF Radio needs to be something 
she can use when he's not around to help her with it.

Matthew Pitts
N8OHU
K2 #5956 

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[Elecraft] K3 Questions

[Corboy-Poteet]

I asked this earlier but suppose it was lost in the early frenzy so I
will pose the question again along with a couple more.

The basic question concerns digital voice modulation.  There is no
current standard but AOR is using an open protocol from G4GUO. Unlike
SSB, digital voice will require some sort of standard unless we will
be satisfied talking only to ourselves (not all bad, at least I would
find someone who always agrees with me). I wonder if Elecraft could
push things along by offering digital voice modulation as a built-in
function on the K3?

1) Basic question: could the current K3 DSP handle DVM encode/decode
processing while performing its other tasks?

2) Looking at the K3 photos, there seems to be (a lot of?) room under
the hood.  I wonder if Elecraft has designed the K3 (as they did with
the K2) with plans to add additional functional modules to the
original system?  I am thinking, in this instance, of an independent
DSP module that could do magic such as DVM without burdening the basic
DSP. Heck, with an independent DSP you could even add cell phone
capability to the K3 (might be nice to have out in the boonies).

3) Digital voice modulation question: I assume the basic bandwidth of
a DVM signal is 3 khz.  What happens, on receive, when you narrow the
bandwidth of a DVM signal?  Do you just lose fidelity or do you lose
data (things like syllables or words)?

I am not a big voice mode fan but I do believe that SSB is headed
toward the same ditch currently occupied by AM.  Maybe Elecraft can
help set the direction for future voice modes.


MikeW5FTD




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[Elecraft] K3 Questions ..... Delay Product?

[Fred (FL)]

I am suggesting that we all STOP sending in list
questions about what the K3 has, does, or will have -
and let the design/production team - get the product
finished.  This is not the time, to try to influence
changes in a product - that hasn't even hit the
streets yet!

I'd like to think, that my K3 kit will get shipped
in July 2007.  And if we nickle and dime Elecraft's
design/manufacturing/production/sales team to death
--- that won't happen.

I remember in the past 12 months, when we submitted
questions about a possible K3 future Elecraft
product - the 90% predominant response was ... we
don't need another transceiver product, the
K2 is super, and just fine for us all!   Now that
the reality of a K3 is almost upon us - let's let
them get it out the door!

I've asked some dumb questions in the near past -
and I promise myself, and Elecraft, not to ask any
more K3 QUESTIONS - and let the team do their
immediate job - that of getting the K3 out the door,
with documentation, and all the options.  

73's de Fred N3CSY



 

Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396546091
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Questions ..... Delay Product?

[Darwin, Keith]

That's a valid concern, but I bet it really isn't a risk.

I'm trusting that the folks at Elecraft are focused on getting the K3
done and are not letting the reflector discussion get in the way of
that.  Today's businesses can't survive if they don't have a clear focus
and focus means they know when to ignore something and just get 'er
done.

The running back ignores the mosquitoes as he sprints toward the goal
line.

What bugs me about the Q's is they keep producing answers that sound
fabulous and have greatly weakened my I don't need a K3 position.

73 Fred  the group!

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 - 

-Original Message-

I'd like to think, that my K3 kit will get shipped in July 2007.  And if
we nickle and dime Elecraft's design/manufacturing/production/sales team
to death --- that won't happen.

73's de Fred N3CSY
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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Questions ..... Delay Product?

[Jesse Justiss]

 fabulous and have greatly weakened my I don't need
 a K3 position.
 

Do you realize the Basic K3/100 is about what my
Kenwood TS 520S cost in 1979? 

640.00 in '79 is 1,816.07 in '07. That should destroy
your I don't need a K3 position.




   
Need
 a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions ..... Delay Product?

[R. Kevin Stover]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I agree.

Seems the last week to 10 days the reflector has been nothing but
suggestions on how to improve a product which hasn't even gone into
production yet. The K3 is what it is. There seems to be a lot of
suggestions aimed at turning the K3 into the Elecraft version of some
other rig. (Orion, IC-7800, FTDX 9000, etc...)

I for one am happy that Elecraft in their wisdom haven't fallen into the
trap of trying to produce a transceiver which does everything, and in
the end does everything with mediocrity.

Fred (FL) wrote:
 I am suggesting that we all STOP sending in list
 questions about what the K3 has, does, or will have -
 and let the design/production team - get the product
 finished.  This is not the time, to try to influence
 changes in a product - that hasn't even hit the
 streets yet!
 
 I'd like to think, that my K3 kit will get shipped
 in July 2007.  And if we nickle and dime Elecraft's
 design/manufacturing/production/sales team to death
 --- that won't happen.
 
 I remember in the past 12 months, when we submitted
 questions about a possible K3 future Elecraft
 product - the 90% predominant response was ... we
 don't need another transceiver product, the
 K2 is super, and just fine for us all!   Now that
 the reality of a K3 is almost upon us - let's let
 them get it out the door!
 
 I've asked some dumb questions in the near past -
 and I promise myself, and Elecraft, not to ask any
 more K3 QUESTIONS - and let the team do their
 immediate job - that of getting the K3 out the door,
 with documentation, and all the options.  
 
 73's de Fred N3CSY


- --
R. Kevin Stover, ACØH
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGXE1J11jxjloa2wsRAgF5AKDSPyxpMGINoq+7gieGrZkGRo3kEACdG7WX
D5TByicLCmrrc8x5PV5k9d8=
=UhcL
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions, some will be answered over time.

[w6jd]

I placed an order for the K3 as soon as I saw it at Visalia. I tuned it, poked 
its buttons and kicked its tires and I knew I had to have one. At first I put 
in a no money down order but the more I thought about the level of Elecraft 
engineering expertise and the unmatched customer service I realized that there 
really was no downside to committing some up front money and the upside was a 
great radio and a low serial number  : ).

Doug, W6JD
K2/100 #1626...and they'll have to pull that radio from my cold dead hands

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 It's called PLANNING! 
 
 Also, top notch engineering! Have you ever wondered how many of these ham 
 radio companies, including the brands that do hugh volumes of commercial 
 radio, 
 actually have hams designing their radios? I remember when the guys at Drake, 
 Hallicrafters, Collins, Hammerlund, Johnson, Heath and many others were ALL 
 hams and their pictures were usually in the Christmas issue of all the ham 
 mags. 
 Aside from the founders of Icom and Yaesu, how many HAMS or even a call sign 
 have you seen in an ad 
 let alone backing their gear at a convention? Anyone who would go to a 
 convention with their rig on the table in front of them, is putting their 
 reputation and livelihood on the line and will surely get my respect and an 
 order on 
 the spot! 
 
 Tnx for the soap box, Al - WA6VNN 
 
 
 
 ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Questions, some will be answered over time.

[AJSOENKE]

It's called PLANNING!  
 
Also, top notch engineering! Have you ever wondered how many of these ham 
radio companies, including the brands that do hugh volumes of commercial radio, 
actually have hams designing their radios?  I remember when the guys at Drake, 
Hallicrafters, Collins, Hammerlund, Johnson, Heath and many others were ALL 
hams and their pictures were usually in the Christmas issue of all the ham 
mags. 
Aside from the founders of Icom and Yaesu, how many HAMS or even a call sign 
have you seen in an ad 
let alone backing their gear at a convention?  Anyone who would go to a 
convention with their rig on the table in front of them, is putting  their 
reputation and livelihood on the line and will surely get my respect and an 
order on 
the spot!
 
Tnx for the soap box,  Al - WA6VNN



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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[Elecraft] K3 Questions, some will be answered over time.

[Don Rasmussen]

1. Why didn't Elecraft hire a marketing consultant to
cost the K3 using prices ranging from $2499 to $8000? 

Don't they know that:
 a.) A higher price adds to ownership status and
 b.) They'd still be competitive??? 
I am upset that I purchased a lower priced radio than
I can afford and Elecraft has some explaining to do.
How smart is that? 

2. Would having a weak sister second receiver lower
your contest score as compared to competitors that
have 2 good ones?

3. Are the other manufacturers upset, enough so that
they might update their designs or would they start a
new marketing campaign or series of ads in QST for
their existing gear?

4. How many times is it acceptable for your contest
radio to lock up in a 24 hour period? 

5. How often is it a satisfactory solution that
someone would do a master reset if their radio was
behaving oddly over a period of days or weeks. 

6. How is it possible for K3 to be ready to operate in
seconds when the others need 20 times longer to
calibrate the DSP? Is my DSP running uncalibrated?

7. How can a radio that is announced just before
Dayton have a working model there (not one under
glass) and planned production units in a matter of
weeks after introduction? 

Enquiring minds…

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RE: [Elecraft] K3 Questions, some will be answered over time.

[Bruce McLaughlin]

Perhaps it's either mojo or magic!  Either way, it sounds exciting.

Bruce - W8FU

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Rasmussen
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 2:20 PM
To: Elecraft List
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Questions, some will be answered over time.

1. Why didn't Elecraft hire a marketing consultant to
cost the K3 using prices ranging from $2499 to $8000? 

Don't they know that:
 a.) A higher price adds to ownership status and
 b.) They'd still be competitive??? 
I am upset that I purchased a lower priced radio than
I can afford and Elecraft has some explaining to do.
How smart is that? 

2. Would having a weak sister second receiver lower
your contest score as compared to competitors that
have 2 good ones?

3. Are the other manufacturers upset, enough so that
they might update their designs or would they start a
new marketing campaign or series of ads in QST for
their existing gear?

4. How many times is it acceptable for your contest
radio to lock up in a 24 hour period? 

5. How often is it a satisfactory solution that
someone would do a master reset if their radio was
behaving oddly over a period of days or weeks. 

6. How is it possible for K3 to be ready to operate in
seconds when the others need 20 times longer to
calibrate the DSP? Is my DSP running uncalibrated?

7. How can a radio that is announced just before
Dayton have a working model there (not one under
glass) and planned production units in a matter of
weeks after introduction? 

Enquiring minds.

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[Elecraft] K3 questions: Please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[wayne burdick]

This will keep the list traffic manageable.

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR


---

http://www.elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 questions: Please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Sam Morgan]

wayne burdick wrote:

This will keep the list traffic manageable.


rant on
I wish it would Wayne...
this is what?
your what 3rd or is it 4th attempt?

I have nothing against the K3, I'm thrilled for those that will be able to
afford one. But I have already deleted over 250 posts on K3 and T-shirts so far. 
and I have kept all yours and Lyles posts.


I'm seriously considering unsubscribing til after July or later. Just not sure
if that would work either. I figure after the release there will be another
month where the list will be useless for anything else. It just seems unfair to
the rest of the Elecraft products that were supported on the list to have it
taken over like this. Mail filters won't work that's for sure, as the subject
lines keep changing wile the contents say the same things.

P.S. I'm amazed that anyone that can't follow your simple request(s) to take it
off list, were able to read the manuals and assemble their other Elecraft rigs.
/rant off

/me dons flame suit and limbers up my delete key for any off list replys!
--
GB  73's
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 questions: Please send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Ken N9VV]

Hi Sam, give this a try, use your browser to read the list on the 
web instead of individual email - maybe that will be a more 
comfortable way to see the messages you are interested in

http://www.ac6rm.net/mailarchive/html/elecraft-list/
or
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/
all the best,
72/73 de ken n9vv

Sam Morgan wrote:
I'm seriously considering unsubscribing til after July or later. Just 

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[Elecraft] K3 QUESTIONS: Please send them ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[wayne burdick]

Hi all,

Now that the K3 has been the subject of intense discussion for three 
days, it's time for a change of strategy!


Please send ALL questions to ONLY [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than post 
them to the list. I'll get them to the right person or answer them 
myself, as time permits.


If I don't answer right away, you can assume I'm adding the info to our 
FAQ. I'm also saving all suggestions for firmware or features.


This will free up the reflector for a wider range of subjects.

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR



---

http://www.elecraft.com

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[Elecraft] K3 QUESTIONS (reminder): Please send them ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not the list

[wayne burdick]

Thanks,
Wayne
N6KR


---

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