Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi How about a K3 box that has 50/144/432 on the main board and slots that would take 29 MHz, 70 MHz, 220 MHz, 1.296 MHz and other band sub-modules? Randy On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Don Putnick don.n...@earthlink.net wrote: I'm sure Ron AC7AC's ideas were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but think of the possibilities, all within reach: 1. Voice operated - K3, go to 14313 USB, tune the antenna, and set output power at 100 watts 2. Voice recognition - the K3 scans the bands looking for a SSB signal, then detects the operator's call sign. 3. Content filtering (aka Snowden mode) - same as 2 above, but the K3 stops if it hears a call sign from a list input by the operator. 4. Cognitive radio - the K3 scans the bands for a signal, then determines its characteristics (CW/USB/LSB/AM/FM, digital details) and set itself up to match. 5. Heads-up display. 73 Don NA6Z Y'all are thinking too small. I expect that the next generation will be voice operated, to be followed by a rig that won't require any input from the Ham. Since you are the licensee, it will just text you with a summary of the QSO's that it made on your behalf each day. But then, one day, we'll be able to apply for licenses and take the exams on-line so the rig log on and get the license and we humans won't have to bother ourselves with what the rig is doing. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents
You mean you don’t already have these? Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:38 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents If this trend continues, not only will we need aluminum foil hats, but our computer display screens will need an aluminum foil covering as well.:-) 73, Don W3FPR On 8/22/2013 5:25 PM, Lee Buller wrote: The K3 is a fine radio and not much could be added to such a fine piece of work. But, doing research on the internet I found that if you could degauss the ion slip stream, ratchet up the electronobulator, and then put in some plasticized radionic grease on the shafts …Elecraft could increase the affection factor by 1278.3410. Now…we’re talking. Of course, you would have to add a situational magna-inducer to the final stage that would increase the efficiency to 178.6 percent while reducing the total joules per second to a minimal and safe level. This would make the FCC very happy because the Frozone Zone would be infinitesimally small thus saving millions of lives. Coupled with the new radically opposed singularity, the K3 could take an operator to the far reaches of propagation with resounding clarity and brightness. Work could be done to super-charge the eletronobulator to increase the density of the induction Hickcock field coils which would give you enormous amounts of gain both transmit and receive throughout the spectrum, here and on worlds not yet discovered. Now we know that the flux-capacity is old hat and should not even be considered, but the new cranial cold fusion super flux capacitor would fit well into the box and provide output that we’ve never seen as amateur radio operators. Then, there is the possibility that you could run two cranial cold fusion super flux capacitors in parallel without marginalizing the receiver but keeping the QSO rate well above 1,000 per hour. I will continue to research new developments on the Internet to see what new features could be incorporated in the K3 in the far distance future. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents
I think it's time for a K3 firmware update... 73, F5VJC On 22 August 2013 23:25, Lee Buller k...@swbell.net wrote: The K3 is a fine radio and not much could be added to such a fine piece of work. But, doing research on the internet I found that if you could degauss the ion slip stream, ratchet up the electronobulator, and then put in some plasticized radionic grease on the shafts …Elecraft could increase the affection factor by 1278.3410. Now…we’re talking. Of course, you would have to add a situational magna-inducer to the final stage that would increase the efficiency to 178.6 percent while reducing the total joules per second to a minimal and safe level. This would make the FCC very happy because the Frozone Zone would be infinitesimally small thus saving millions of lives. Coupled with the new radically opposed singularity, the K3 could take an operator to the far reaches of propagation with resounding clarity and brightness. Work could be done to super-charge the eletronobulator to increase the density of the induction Hickcock field coils which would give you enormous amounts of gain both transmit and receive throughout the spectrum, here and on worlds not yet discovered. Now we know that the flux-capacity is old hat and should not even be considered, but the new cranial cold fusion super flux capacitor would fit well into the box and provide output that we’ve never seen as amateur radio operators. Then, there is the possibility that you could run two cranial cold fusion super flux capacitors in parallel without marginalizing the receiver but keeping the QSO rate well above 1,000 per hour. I will continue to research new developments on the Internet to see what new features could be incorporated in the K3 in the far distance future. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - John W. (Kansas) Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents
How about a serious VHF/UHF radio ? -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-and-whats-next-from-Elecraft-tp7577832p7578284.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I agree, Arnie. While HF is my main motivation as an OT, I have always been fascinated by the world above 50 MHz. At one time I had the enjoyment of maintaining FAA-style air traffic control radar systems in the 2 GHz and 9 GHz realms. I can remember when the only options to get on 6m and 2m, other than homebrewing, were things like the so-called Benton Harbor Lunch Boxes sold by Heathkit. Even then I longed to operate on those bands, if even only on AM. When FM became popular on 2m, and especially when synthesizers and synthesized transceivers were available, I was in my element. One more band that I'd like to be active on is 222 MHz. We know that Elecraft has the technology available today, in the form of a transverter. Can you imagine a 2m/222MHz/432 MHZ/1.2 GHz all-mode transceiver with some decent power output? Think of an updated FT-736. Oddly enough, though, there is a dearth of 222 MHz activity in southern California, given the population base. Typically, there are only about a dozen stations operating on that band during contests, and some of that activity is FM. Nothing wrong with that; better than a dead band. I continue to be amazed that the JA manufacturers have made transceivers available for 222 MHz, albeit pretty much FM-only, since operation in that band is not authorized outside of North America. So, what say, Wayne and Eric? 73 de Jim - AD6CW On 8/22/2013 12:54 PM, Arnie Grubbs wrote: Well, while everyone is putting out their wish lists.. While there is a glut of cheap FM HT and mobile VHF/UHF stuff, I don't think that 2M/430 is represented enough.. FM is only one small bit of the upper bands, CW, SSB, Data (high speed mesh networks) and video are there too.. Cheap FM HTs are not what I would be all over... We used to have more options for VHF and up rigs, lately all you see are multiband mobile rigs that do everything from just about DC to daylight that while a jack of all trades, are master of none. You would need two of them anyway, to do full duplex comms. 73 - Arnie KA0NCR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi Jim, I also remember those days ;-) My first QSO was on a Benton Harbor Lunch Box on 2m AM: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/FirstQSO.jpg I guess that is where the challenge of working DX on VHF started for me. At first it was the just the challenge of reaching outside the county, then it was the next state, and soon it was working more distant states on meteor scatter and then the other side of the world on EME. Elecraft has provided amazing equipment to further DXing on 6m and 2m EME, with their digital ready K3. You might be surprised by the large percentage of serious EMEers who use K3's now! Although built as a great rig for HF, it is the rig of choice for MANY on JT65 mode and VHF DXing and EME. Hats off to Elecraft for making such a great tool for us! VY 73, Lance On 8/23/2013 6:30 PM, Jim Lowman wrote: I can remember when the only options to get on 6m and 2m, other than homebrewing, were things like the so-called Benton Harbor Lunch Boxes sold by Heathkit. Even then I longed to operate on those bands, if even only on AM. -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073 USA TEL: (406) 626-5728 QTH: DN27ub URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj Windows Messenger: w...@hotmail.com Skype: lanceW7GJ 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815 Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page (above)! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Terry, As I just told Fred, I looked at the discussion a little more and got a better handle on the context of the comment. I missed the point of reference and shouldn't have commented because of that. Sorry. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/21/13 11:58 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: Agreed. Since Fred's original questions referenced the use of an S-meter to measure weak versus strong signals, I was simply trying to frame part of my answer to match his reference, and show how errors could creep into that methodology. 73, Terry, WB4JFI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Well, while everyone is putting out their wish lists.. While there is a glut of cheap FM HT and mobile VHF/UHF stuff, I don't think that 2M/430 is represented enough.. FM is only one small bit of the upper bands, CW, SSB, Data (high speed mesh networks) and video are there too.. Cheap FM HTs are not what I would be all over... We used to have more options for VHF and up rigs, lately all you see are multiband mobile rigs that do everything from just about DC to daylight that while a jack of all trades, are master of none. You would need two of them anyway, to do full duplex comms. I used to have a Kenwood TS-790 that I used for SSB/CW and Satellite work. It got damaged by lightning, not from the antenna but in thru the power supply... I do miss it. and Full Duplex... Adding transverters to an HF rig, is an option, but that ties up your expensive HF rig.. is messy, and does not allow you to run full duplex for an analog satellite. At this moment, I see there is the Kenwood TS-2000 which is $1500, base, to about $2000 with the 23cm module. It does duplex. Also I see the IC-9100 as something of a stand out as something newer that does the higher bands, and does full duplex with VFO tracking.. but still has to deal with the cost of HF... at a cost of close to $3000. Granted it does 6M and has an option of 1200 MHz.. which is great. But it has icom support, and not **ELECRAFT** support! A radio that had a very good multi channel DSP mother board set up, with modules that you could select and add for the less traveled bands such as 6 and 2M, 430Mhz, 900 and 1200Mhz would be Very Interesting.. Maybe a 4M module for areas that have that as a band option too! The ability to upgrade the DSP software as time goes on, would be a great point.. Also being able to add in the LoFer bands if/when made available, would be very nice option to be able to stack inside and use all of the DSP power you have available in the main boardDiversity reception on LowFer? Anyhow, just wishful thinking on my part... What say Elecraft! ;) 73 - Arnie KA0NCR - What would you be willing to pay? What would it have that current import units do not? (perhaps a manual you can understand or a set of controls that easily access the gazillion features?) Let's face it the current crop of 2m/440 are almost priced to be disposables. What market share is left to go after? 73 Brian/K3KO End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 112, Issue 31 * __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents
The K3 is a fine radio and not much could be added to such a fine piece of work. But, doing research on the internet I found that if you could degauss the ion slip stream, ratchet up the electronobulator, and then put in some plasticized radionic grease on the shafts …Elecraft could increase the affection factor by 1278.3410. Now…we’re talking. Of course, you would have to add a situational magna-inducer to the final stage that would increase the efficiency to 178.6 percent while reducing the total joules per second to a minimal and safe level. This would make the FCC very happy because the Frozone Zone would be infinitesimally small thus saving millions of lives. Coupled with the new radically opposed singularity, the K3 could take an operator to the far reaches of propagation with resounding clarity and brightness. Work could be done to super-charge the eletronobulator to increase the density of the induction Hickcock field coils which would give you enormous amounts of gain both transmit and receive throughout the spectrum, here and on worlds not yet discovered. Now we know that the flux-capacity is old hat and should not even be considered, but the new cranial cold fusion super flux capacitor would fit well into the box and provide output that we’ve never seen as amateur radio operators. Then, there is the possibility that you could run two cranial cold fusion super flux capacitors in parallel without marginalizing the receiver but keeping the QSO rate well above 1,000 per hour. I will continue to research new developments on the Internet to see what new features could be incorporated in the K3 in the far distance future. Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? Common Sense is the image of the Creator expressing revealed truth in my mind. - John W. (Kansas) Never interfere with anything that isn't bothering you. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft - my 2 cents
If this trend continues, not only will we need aluminum foil hats, but our computer display screens will need an aluminum foil covering as well.:-) 73, Don W3FPR On 8/22/2013 5:25 PM, Lee Buller wrote: The K3 is a fine radio and not much could be added to such a fine piece of work. But, doing research on the internet I found that if you could degauss the ion slip stream, ratchet up the electronobulator, and then put in some plasticized radionic grease on the shafts …Elecraft could increase the affection factor by 1278.3410. Now…we’re talking. Of course, you would have to add a situational magna-inducer to the final stage that would increase the efficiency to 178.6 percent while reducing the total joules per second to a minimal and safe level. This would make the FCC very happy because the Frozone Zone would be infinitesimally small thus saving millions of lives. Coupled with the new radically opposed singularity, the K3 could take an operator to the far reaches of propagation with resounding clarity and brightness. Work could be done to super-charge the eletronobulator to increase the density of the induction Hickcock field coils which would give you enormous amounts of gain both transmit and receive throughout the spectrum, here and on worlds not yet discovered. Now we know that the flux-capacity is old hat and should not even be considered, but the new cranial cold fusion super flux capacitor would fit well into the box and provide output that we’ve never seen as amateur radio operators. Then, there is the possibility that you could run two cranial cold fusion super flux capacitors in parallel without marginalizing the receiver but keeping the QSO rate well above 1,000 per hour. I will continue to research new developments on the Internet to see what new features could be incorporated in the K3 in the far distance future. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I've recently been using an MFJ-1025 Noise Canceling Signal Enhancer. I'm having a lot better success with than I did with a ANC-4, now produced by Timewave. These units, along with a similar one from DX-Engineering, in general work by having a 2nd antenna as a 'sense' antenna. The unwanted noise is picked there and inverted in phase and mixed with the same noise as received with the main antenna. I credit most of my recent success over previous attempts to having a bandscope. That factor is making all the difference in the world in terms of usability. Rather than listening to a single frequency and attempting to hear a null amongst perhaps all kinds of noise, one can observe changes and adjustments across some bandwidth and directly observe the result of not only 'background noise,' but birdies and odd frequency specific noises. There are times when 40 meters would be inoperable for me because of line noise. I am able to near completely remove that and don't have to deal with distortion products. It might be an interesting design project to create such a unit as an add-in option for the K3. 73, Dick - KA5KKT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
In order to limit off-topic posts, I responded directly to Fred. One salient point is that my K3's S-meter does NOT show linear/accurate readings above about S9 +25. It hits S9+60 at about -30dBm, which should read only about S9+40. This could throw off the assumed dynamic range of 102dB. However, Dr. Mitola's suggestion that HF needs about 130dB of dynamic range is still a good target, albeit tough for ANY radio without RF filtering (analog OR SDR). I provided several other comments, but I don’t think a manufacturer's reflector is the proper forum to continue the discussion. I'm not hiding anything, as I think Elecraft makes at least two of the best radios on the market (K3/P3 KX3), and I'm not planning to part with either of mine. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:50 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft On 8/19/2013 10:28 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: Warning: rather long reply follows. If you don't care, or have your mind made up, please skip this email. Fred asked for some education, so here goes... I'm not an expert, but these are my personal ramblings from what I think that I have learned. If you don't agree, and the moderator doesn’t like this discussion here, maybe we can find another place to discuss? Or directly? Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I'm thinking I'm not the only one seeking the education so I'll reply to the list. If that's inappropriate, I'll take it off-list. I'm also not going to quote your reply, those interested already have it. So far, I've learned that 32-bit ADC's have apparently not become as ubiquitous as I had surmised. I have looked at the I'net SDR at Twente University in the Netherlands, and I understand the concept and the desirability of digitizing directly from the entire HF spectrum for it. That cool receiver wouldn't work for everyone if it didn't. I understand DSP also, or at least most of the math behind it. I want to focus my questions on a communications receiver and its performance however, because that's what I'm certain I don't fully understand. In this focus, I'm attempting to receive a single fairly narrow-band HF signal in the presence of noise and other signals close by. Let's say a 2KHz BW signal just for discussion. Let's say I'm digitizing at the antenna connector everything up to 30MHz. We know that I have to sample at a rate at least twice the highest frequency being sampled so I'll stipulate that we're sampling at 120MHz, [4x 30MHz] and that there exists some sort of low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of 30MHz, zero attenuation below, and 1,000dB above in front of the ADC [trying to get rid of discussion noise here] My K3 reads S9 with 50uV into the 50ohm connector which is 5e-11 watts, or -73dBm. I have a KBPF3 [or whatever it's called] and I can find non-ham signals in the .5-30MHz range that will put the S-meter at or close to full-scale [60 over S9]. For the sake of discussion, let's assume the S-meter is accurate and the strongest signal I can find is 60 over S9 or -13dBm. Were the LORAN-C station at Middletown CA still operating, it would easily exceed anything I can find at HF, on my service monitor it generally ran around -10dBm at night with my flagpole as the antenna. I'll assume that the 2KHz BW signal I want to hear is S2, or 42dB below S9 or -115dBm which I don't think is unreasonable. I would calculate then that the digitizing mechanism directly at the antenna connector needs to have a minimum dynamic range of 102dBm or a voltage ratio of 125,893 [rounding up]. 2^18 gives me +/-131,072 steps so an 18-bit ADC should work. Right so far? In my K3, the .5-30MHz spectrum is filtered by the L-C BP filters prior to the first mixer, significantly reducing the effect of far but very strong signals on the mixer. The 8MHz 1st IF is then filtered again by, in my case, a 2.7KHz xtal filter, so when this all gets to the ADC, it's 3KHz wide or so. And thus my first question [slightly rephrased]: Ignoring the display possibilities of digitizing at the antenna connector, and concentrating on a communications receiver attempting to receive a 2KHz BW signal, what are the performance advantages of moving the A-D conversion to the antenna connector? It seems like it should make sense to sample right at the antenna, if you can digitize at an adequate rate and precision, but I just can't make it work in my mind that subjecting the ADC to the full spectrum is good if I'm a single-op and all I'm interested in is the new mult. Follow-up question [watched too much 'West Wing' I guess]: Is all this full-SDR based on getting conversion and DSP processing rates high enough that it doesn't matter how far strong signals removed from the desired signal? There is inevitable distortion that arises in the analog amplifiers, filters, and mixers, sufficiently long word-lengths in the DSP stages could
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
One salient point is that my K3's S-meter does NOT show linear/accurate readings above about S9 +25. Honest to goodness, people. Get a grip ... :/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Interesting. My measurements up to S9+40 show it pretty linear with a slope of 1.001 db/SMH unit. I didn't go above this. I'll send you the curve. The generator used is an HP8657B. This was done with a 400 Hz filter in the CW mode. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 8/21/2013 23:19, wb4...@knology.net wrote: In order to limit off-topic posts, I responded directly to Fred. One salient point is that my K3's S-meter does NOT show linear/accurate readings above about S9 +25. It hits S9+60 at about -30dBm, which should read only about S9+40. This could throw off the assumed dynamic range of 102dB. However, Dr. Mitola's suggestion that HF needs about 130dB of dynamic range is still a good target, albeit tough for ANY radio without RF filtering (analog OR SDR). I provided several other comments, but I don’t think a manufacturer's reflector is the proper forum to continue the discussion. I'm not hiding anything, as I think Elecraft makes at least two of the best radios on the market (K3/P3 KX3), and I'm not planning to part with either of mine. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 7:50 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft On 8/19/2013 10:28 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: Warning: rather long reply follows. If you don't care, or have your mind made up, please skip this email. Fred asked for some education, so here goes... I'm not an expert, but these are my personal ramblings from what I think that I have learned. If you don't agree, and the moderator doesn’t like this discussion here, maybe we can find another place to discuss? Or directly? Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I'm thinking I'm not the only one seeking the education so I'll reply to the list. If that's inappropriate, I'll take it off-list. I'm also not going to quote your reply, those interested already have it. So far, I've learned that 32-bit ADC's have apparently not become as ubiquitous as I had surmised. I have looked at the I'net SDR at Twente University in the Netherlands, and I understand the concept and the desirability of digitizing directly from the entire HF spectrum for it. That cool receiver wouldn't work for everyone if it didn't. I understand DSP also, or at least most of the math behind it. I want to focus my questions on a communications receiver and its performance however, because that's what I'm certain I don't fully understand. In this focus, I'm attempting to receive a single fairly narrow-band HF signal in the presence of noise and other signals close by. Let's say a 2KHz BW signal just for discussion. Let's say I'm digitizing at the antenna connector everything up to 30MHz. We know that I have to sample at a rate at least twice the highest frequency being sampled so I'll stipulate that we're sampling at 120MHz, [4x 30MHz] and that there exists some sort of low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of 30MHz, zero attenuation below, and 1,000dB above in front of the ADC [trying to get rid of discussion noise here] My K3 reads S9 with 50uV into the 50ohm connector which is 5e-11 watts, or -73dBm. I have a KBPF3 [or whatever it's called] and I can find non-ham signals in the .5-30MHz range that will put the S-meter at or close to full-scale [60 over S9]. For the sake of discussion, let's assume the S-meter is accurate and the strongest signal I can find is 60 over S9 or -13dBm. Were the LORAN-C station at Middletown CA still operating, it would easily exceed anything I can find at HF, on my service monitor it generally ran around -10dBm at night with my flagpole as the antenna. I'll assume that the 2KHz BW signal I want to hear is S2, or 42dB below S9 or -115dBm which I don't think is unreasonable. I would calculate then that the digitizing mechanism directly at the antenna connector needs to have a minimum dynamic range of 102dBm or a voltage ratio of 125,893 [rounding up]. 2^18 gives me +/-131,072 steps so an 18-bit ADC should work. Right so far? In my K3, the .5-30MHz spectrum is filtered by the L-C BP filters prior to the first mixer, significantly reducing the effect of far but very strong signals on the mixer. The 8MHz 1st IF is then filtered again by, in my case, a 2.7KHz xtal filter, so when this all gets to the ADC, it's 3KHz wide or so. And thus my first question [slightly rephrased]: Ignoring the display possibilities of digitizing at the antenna connector, and concentrating on a communications receiver attempting to receive a 2KHz BW signal, what are the performance advantages of moving the A-D conversion to the antenna connector? It seems like it should make sense to sample right at the antenna, if you can digitize at an adequate rate and precision, but I just can't make it work in my mind that subjecting the ADC to the full spectrum is good if I'm a single-op and all I'm interested in is the new mult. Follow-up question [watched too much 'West Wing' I guess
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Since when does the S-meter have anything to do with dynamic range? My old Kenwood TS-2000 had a pretty tight S-meter, but that didn't help its, um, pedestrian (to be kind) dynamic range numbers. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/21/13 7:19 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: One salient point is that my K3's S-meter does NOT show linear/accurate readings above about S9 +25. It hits S9+60 at about -30dBm, which should read only about S9+40. This could throw off the assumed dynamic range of 102dB. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
S-Meter readings have exactly NOTHING to do with dynamic range, Scott. This was a discussion, semi-pertinent to Elecraft radios, and that I offered to take off list and now will. I asked for education about SDR's that sampled at the antenna connector vs those, like the K3, that sampled after some superhet and filter magic, and honestly, I'm learning. There are a lot of really smart and knowledgeable folks on this list if you just ask questions. I made an assumption, for the discussion, that my K3 S-meter was linear [in terms of dB which of course we all know is actually logarithmic]. It was an assumption for the purpose of the discussion, nothing more, to set up the real question I had, and for which I have since gotten a really sensible answer. It might help if folks read the entire thread, S-meter readings had almost nothing to do with it. I have no idea if my K3 S-meter is accurate above or below S9 and I don't care, I set it there for 50uV=S9. The rest was an assumption for the discussion. And thanks to those who helped me understand a bit more of this. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org On 8/21/2013 4:53 PM, Scott Manthe wrote: Since when does the S-meter have anything to do with dynamic range? My old Kenwood TS-2000 had a pretty tight S-meter, but that didn't help its, um, pedestrian (to be kind) dynamic range numbers. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Agreed. Since Fred's original questions referenced the use of an S-meter to measure weak versus strong signals, I was simply trying to frame part of my answer to match his reference, and show how errors could creep into that methodology. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Scott Manthe Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:53 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Since when does the S-meter have anything to do with dynamic range? My old Kenwood TS-2000 had a pretty tight S-meter, but that didn't help its, um, pedestrian (to be kind) dynamic range numbers. 73, Scott, N9AA snip __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Terry, Thank you for the excellent write up. I enjoyed every line of it and hope to have access to such a reading more often in the future. Very educational and concise. - Original Message - From: wb4...@knology.net To: k6...@foothill.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Warning: rather long reply follows. . skip __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
the sample values right (value overflow), and a host of other issues. Filtering can be just as tricky (or more) in the digital domain as in the analog world. And SDR hardware can be a pain to use and/or build. Anytime a computer is involved, you are taking your chances. Hi Hi. Sometimes knobs are just plain easier to use. Yes, there has been a lot of discussion about whether or not the K3 is an SDR. I personally believe that it is, because a significant part of the SIGNAL PROCESSING is done in an executing software program, and that program can be changed. Not as easily as loading a new EXE in Windows, but it can be. Even though the RF front-end follows a traditional analog superhet receiver design up to the second IF. In my mind, there's no question that the KX3 is an SDR. It is similar in very basic layout as an SDR Cube, Softrock/host computer, etc, in that it uses QSD/QSE mixers, an Si570, and a dsPIC back-end that is fully reconfigurable. I remember others here, including the author of much of the DSP code for the K3 and KX3 has previously stated that they also believe both rigs are SDRs. BTW, the Elecraft P3 IS A DDC RECEIVER, with a 14-bit ADC, sampling at about 60Ms/s, and feeding an ASIC DDC chip, then a dsPIC chip for FFT and other DSP work. Yes, it samples the 8.215MHz IF from the K3, but as Elecraft states, it can be used on other radios as well. It does take advantage of the K3's RF front end, including preamps, filtering, etc. I would NOT hook an antenna directly to it! Spectrum analyzers are nice if you can afford one - many people can't. I have both a homebrew W7ZOI one, and a commercial unit. They usually don't have the sensitivity to look at typical weak HF signals, and they aren’t usually designed to demodulate anything, or at least not CW or SSB. Panadaptors/spectrum displays are really coming to the forefront of SDRs. In fact, I would argue the opposite of your comment. Some hams are using SDRs, or at least hardware originally designed as an SDR, for many bench applications. Spectrum analyzers, network analyzers, antenna analyzers, etc can be based on some of the better SDR hardware. HPSDR Hermes, HiQSDR, even Softrocks, have all been used in those applications. I'm not a digitalist, nor am I an analogist. I have several radios: RTL dongles/upconverter, K3/P3, KX3, SDR-Cube, tons of Softrocks, SDR-IQ, Flex 1000, SDR-Widget, SDR2GO, HiQSDR, HPSDR boardset, Flex 6500. I know I forgot a couple. I bought each for a reason, and don't disparage any of them. I did finally sell my Icom IC-720a, a workhorse for over 20 years. Except for the clack-clacking! I've just given talks on SDRs to two local Charleston, SC ham radio clubs within the last week (one tonight). I've been asked whether someone should buy a K3 or a Flex 6x00. To be honest, I told them if they wanted a radio to use and rely on in the next year or so, get a K3, or possibly a KX3. In about a year, the Flex 6000-series MAY be mature enough to change that advice. As Jerry Pournelle used to say in Byte Magazine: RSN (Real Soon Now). I want to see more than just tiny little slices at a time. For contests, I want to not only see how the present band looks, but hopefully multiple bands, so I can see how propagation is moving. No, I'm not a very active contester, that's just one example. I LOVE the K3/P3, and have used them on CW for Field day the last three years. The Flex (any Flex) just isn't ready for that. I'm not an EE, just someone who has played with leading-edge amateur radio for 45+ years. I was involved in the first licensed ATV repeater (WR4AAG), packet radio development, spread spectrum, a little LF, and now SDR. I know how to burn my fingers with an iron. In summary: learn about Direct Digital Conversion (Digital Down Conversion) (DDC - whatever), look it up. Read about it. Don't stick you head in the sand, or you too may be carrying around one of those ancient Motorola 2M FM rigs with tubes in a Yaesu/Kenwood/Wouxun world. There are definitely pitfalls to DDC/DUC radios. But, there are several reasons why every cell phone has an SDR inside. Sorry for the length. To each his/her own. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:33 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft I could use some education here please: What is the advantage of sampling directly off the antenna? I'm surmising that's what is meant by real SDR vs hybrid SDR. I don't know if 32-bit ADC's existed when the K3 was being designed, but Elecraft settled on the hybrid superhet analog 1st IF/digital 2nd IF for at least one reason and probably many. The dynamic range of signal amplitudes at my coax connector across the 0 to 30MHz spectrum has got to be huge, even after LORAN-C shut down. Is there really any benefit to having that broad
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Terry - Thanks for your long and educational email. I have used my P3 with a short wire antenna for environmental RF noise location. It seems to work well, although the tuning UI was not designed with that application in mind. :-) Walking around with it, a separate battery, and antenna is a bit of a PITA however. CCing Rose to see if she has a solution. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV/1 On 8/20/13 at 10:28 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: I... BTW, the Elecraft P3 IS A DDC RECEIVER, with a 14-bit ADC, sampling at about 60Ms/s, and feeding an ASIC DDC chip, then a dsPIC chip for FFT and other DSP work. Yes, it samples the 8.215MHz IF from the K3, but as Elecraft states, it can be used on other radios as well. It does take advantage of the K3's RF front end, including preamps, filtering, etc. I would NOT hook an antenna directly to it! --- Bill Frantz| The only thing we have to | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | fear is fear itself. - FDR | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | Inaugural address, 3/4/1933 | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
On 8/19/2013 10:28 PM, wb4...@knology.net wrote: Warning: rather long reply follows. If you don't care, or have your mind made up, please skip this email. Fred asked for some education, so here goes... I'm not an expert, but these are my personal ramblings from what I think that I have learned. If you don't agree, and the moderator doesn’t like this discussion here, maybe we can find another place to discuss? Or directly? Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I'm thinking I'm not the only one seeking the education so I'll reply to the list. If that's inappropriate, I'll take it off-list. I'm also not going to quote your reply, those interested already have it. So far, I've learned that 32-bit ADC's have apparently not become as ubiquitous as I had surmised. I have looked at the I'net SDR at Twente University in the Netherlands, and I understand the concept and the desirability of digitizing directly from the entire HF spectrum for it. That cool receiver wouldn't work for everyone if it didn't. I understand DSP also, or at least most of the math behind it. I want to focus my questions on a communications receiver and its performance however, because that's what I'm certain I don't fully understand. In this focus, I'm attempting to receive a single fairly narrow-band HF signal in the presence of noise and other signals close by. Let's say a 2KHz BW signal just for discussion. Let's say I'm digitizing at the antenna connector everything up to 30MHz. We know that I have to sample at a rate at least twice the highest frequency being sampled so I'll stipulate that we're sampling at 120MHz, [4x 30MHz] and that there exists some sort of low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency of 30MHz, zero attenuation below, and 1,000dB above in front of the ADC [trying to get rid of discussion noise here] My K3 reads S9 with 50uV into the 50ohm connector which is 5e-11 watts, or -73dBm. I have a KBPF3 [or whatever it's called] and I can find non-ham signals in the .5-30MHz range that will put the S-meter at or close to full-scale [60 over S9]. For the sake of discussion, let's assume the S-meter is accurate and the strongest signal I can find is 60 over S9 or -13dBm. Were the LORAN-C station at Middletown CA still operating, it would easily exceed anything I can find at HF, on my service monitor it generally ran around -10dBm at night with my flagpole as the antenna. I'll assume that the 2KHz BW signal I want to hear is S2, or 42dB below S9 or -115dBm which I don't think is unreasonable. I would calculate then that the digitizing mechanism directly at the antenna connector needs to have a minimum dynamic range of 102dBm or a voltage ratio of 125,893 [rounding up]. 2^18 gives me +/-131,072 steps so an 18-bit ADC should work. Right so far? In my K3, the .5-30MHz spectrum is filtered by the L-C BP filters prior to the first mixer, significantly reducing the effect of far but very strong signals on the mixer. The 8MHz 1st IF is then filtered again by, in my case, a 2.7KHz xtal filter, so when this all gets to the ADC, it's 3KHz wide or so. And thus my first question [slightly rephrased]: Ignoring the display possibilities of digitizing at the antenna connector, and concentrating on a communications receiver attempting to receive a 2KHz BW signal, what are the performance advantages of moving the A-D conversion to the antenna connector? It seems like it should make sense to sample right at the antenna, if you can digitize at an adequate rate and precision, but I just can't make it work in my mind that subjecting the ADC to the full spectrum is good if I'm a single-op and all I'm interested in is the new mult. Follow-up question [watched too much 'West Wing' I guess]: Is all this full-SDR based on getting conversion and DSP processing rates high enough that it doesn't matter how far strong signals removed from the desired signal? There is inevitable distortion that arises in the analog amplifiers, filters, and mixers, sufficiently long word-lengths in the DSP stages could minimize that. That's enough questions for now. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Pretty well covered by others. One more fact to consider is the K3 is a SDR which means the firmware can continually be improved or embellished, thus keeping the radio from obsolescence. The promise of SDR is that it can continually re-invent itself with new sw (firmware). With ten years under its belt a lot of ideas have already been incorporated. Recent improvement in AGC is an example of continual product improvement. Elecraft is the only organization I see this coming with any regularity. The typical mfr rolls out a whole new piece of hardware requiring you to dispose of the old radio and spending a lot of money on the new stuff. Have you noticed that Elecraft new firmware is free! In time the hardware is replaceable with new technology, so eventually there will be better components for building SDR's and that might lead to a successor to the K3. In a manner of speaking the KX3 is that. I hope the idea of replacement through new modules is followed. That is where a radio built with daughter boards on a master mother board is more amenable to hardware upgrades. The tradeoff is reliability issues with daughter board connectors (over time). Those of us that like to experiment with new stuff like the modular approach. Think of new firmware as new modules! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com dubus...@gmail.com Kits made by KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
The next Elecraft rig will be a real SDR radio (not a hybrid like the K3). With all the convenience and flexibility of the K3, maybe even better. Crucial will be the design specs. I hope that the designspecs will be OK and that the engineers will listen not only to the hard core contesters, but also to others. It will certainly have to be a step up from the K3. Yes, even the K3 has still a few vital things that have to to be improved. 73 Arie PA3A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
The next Elecraft rig will be a real SDR radio (not a hybrid like the K3). The K3 is a SDR Radio! 73 Milverton. From: Arie Kleingeld PA3A p...@xs4all.nl To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft The next Elecraft rig will be a real SDR radio (not a hybrid like the K3). With all the convenience and flexibility of the K3, maybe even better. Crucial will be the design specs. I hope that the designspecs will be OK and that the engineers will listen not only to the hard core contesters, but also to others. It will certainly have to be a step up from the K3. Yes, even the K3 has still a few vital things that have to to be improved. 73 Arie PA3A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
The KX3 is a sdr also. but made into a field useable SDR. -- R.Neese KB3VGW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Just thinking about outside the HF spectrum... * A transverter for the possible new MF allocation, should the FCC finally move * A HT that can be used by the emergency services people who are new hams (Elecraft UIs are easier to use than most other makers UIs.) * Elegant radios for the microwave bands Cheers - Bill, AE6JV --- Bill Frantz| Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security: 408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2 wrote The next Elecraft rig will be a real SDR radio (not a hybrid like the K3). With all the convenience and flexibility of the K3, maybe even better. ...but Wayne said: Direct RF-sampling receivers, for all their technology, still lag well behind the K3 in blocking dynamic range, and probably will continue to for years to come. We're quite happy with our superhet architecture. How refreshing that Elecraft has not been caught up in the direct sampling SDR technology for technology's sake hype. 73, Bill W4ZV -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-and-whats-next-from-Elecraft-tp7577832p7577868.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi Trevor, I'm waiting for a KPA1000. But I'd also take a KPA1200 or KPA1500. 73, Mike K2MK Trevor Dunne wrote Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-and-whats-next-from-Elecraft-tp7577832p7577869.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi Milverton, The K3 has enough software and also in the filtering, but it depends HEAVILY on the analog IF filtering. It is a combination, that's why I call it a hybrid. And for the rest: The next generation radio's will be full DSP, this technology will come fast. We have already seen several rigs (receivers and transceivers, also some websdr's on the net) with this technology. 73, Arie PA3A Op 19-8-2013 14:03, tnny...@yahoo.com schreef: The next Elecraft rig will be a real SDR radio (not a hybrid like the K3). The K3 is a SDR Radio! 73 Milverton. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I hope the idea of replacement through new modules is followed. That is where a radio built with daughter boards on a master mother board is more amenable to hardware upgrades. The tradeoff is reliability issues with daughter board connectors (over time). I agree with your statement above. The Heathkit HW/SB-104 was this way, in that it had a backplane that the boards plugged into. I have had Ten-Tecradios that were on this order also. No sense replacing the whole radio when a circuit board can be replaced instead. I realize Elecraft radios are more complex, but I like to see the use of daughter boards for certain things. I'd rather send back a circuit board for repair or upgrade than the whole radio. Dick, n0ce On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Edward R Cole kl...@acsalaska.net wrote: Pretty well covered by others. One more fact to consider is the K3 is a SDR which means the firmware can continually be improved or embellished, thus keeping the radio from obsolescence. The promise of SDR is that it can continually re-invent itself with new sw (firmware). With ten years under its belt a lot of ideas have already been incorporated. Recent improvement in AGC is an example of continual product improvement. Elecraft is the only organization I see this coming with any regularity. The typical mfr rolls out a whole new piece of hardware requiring you to dispose of the old radio and spending a lot of money on the new stuff. Have you noticed that Elecraft new firmware is free! In time the hardware is replaceable with new technology, so eventually there will be better components for building SDR's and that might lead to a successor to the K3. In a manner of speaking the KX3 is that. I hope the idea of replacement through new modules is followed. That is where a radio built with daughter boards on a master mother board is more amenable to hardware upgrades. The tradeoff is reliability issues with daughter board connectors (over time). Those of us that like to experiment with new stuff like the modular approach. Think of new firmware as new modules! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com dubus...@gmail.com Kits made by KL7UW __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Giving the high quality of Elecraft products, and the phenomenal customer service, not to mention the made in the USA stamp, I think an Elecraft 2m/440 HT would be a huge success. I know I would be one of those people camping out in front of the store for a week just be first in line to buy one. Hopefully the Elecraft gods are listening. 73, Steve KS6PD On Monday, August 19, 2013, Richard Fjeld wrote: I hope the idea of replacement through new modules is followed. That is where a radio built with daughter boards on a master mother board is more amenable to hardware upgrades. The tradeoff is reliability issues with daughter board connectors (over time). I agree with your statement above. The Heathkit HW/SB-104 was this way, in that it had a backplane that the boards plugged into. I have had Ten-Tecradios that were on this order also. No sense replacing the whole radio when a circuit board can be replaced instead. I realize Elecraft radios are more complex, but I like to see the use of daughter boards for certain things. I'd rather send back a circuit board for repair or upgrade than the whole radio. Dick, n0ce On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Edward R Cole kl...@acsalaska.netjavascript:; wrote: Pretty well covered by others. One more fact to consider is the K3 is a SDR which means the firmware can continually be improved or embellished, thus keeping the radio from obsolescence. The promise of SDR is that it can continually re-invent itself with new sw (firmware). With ten years under its belt a lot of ideas have already been incorporated. Recent improvement in AGC is an example of continual product improvement. Elecraft is the only organization I see this coming with any regularity. The typical mfr rolls out a whole new piece of hardware requiring you to dispose of the old radio and spending a lot of money on the new stuff. Have you noticed that Elecraft new firmware is free! In time the hardware is replaceable with new technology, so eventually there will be better components for building SDR's and that might lead to a successor to the K3. In a manner of speaking the KX3 is that. I hope the idea of replacement through new modules is followed. That is where a radio built with daughter boards on a master mother board is more amenable to hardware upgrades. The tradeoff is reliability issues with daughter board connectors (over time). Those of us that like to experiment with new stuff like the modular approach. Think of new firmware as new modules! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com dubus...@gmail.com javascript:; Kits made by KL7UW __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecraft http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htm http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth. javascript:;**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net javascript:; This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net javascript:; This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
On 8/19/2013 7:21 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote: The K3 has enough software and also in the filtering, but it depends HEAVILY on the analog IF filtering. It is a combination, that's why I call it a hybrid. Consider for a moment an SDR with no analog filtering at all. How wide would the passband be? Are we going to cover everything from MF to 6m? The A-D converter is going to have to convert everything coming in, and the DSP is going to have to sort out what you want out of everything coming in: broadcast, other services, noise 50 MHz wide, and who knows what else. I'd rather have the DSP concentrate on a smaller bandwidth signal, and have the processing power available for the few MHz I care about at any given time. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Don hits the nail on the head. Compare Elecraft product support, for example, to YaeKenCom whose only fix for product defects is a new product two years later with new defects! Or to HP whose printers are officially out of support before the inventory is sold off of dealer shelves. /Rick On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: What I am suggesting is that if you purchase a K3, you can expect it to be supported long into the future. I do not have the 'inside track' information about what Elecraft is now working on, nor can I say when it may be revealed, but you can buy a K3 or KX3 and you will find that not only is it a top performer, but will remain so for some time, and you can rely on Elecraft support long into the future. A new product will not diminish support of the present products. -- Rick Tavan N6XI Truckee, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Steve, What would you be willing to pay? What would it have that current import units do not? (perhaps a manual you can understand or a set of controls that easily access the gazillion features?) Let's face it the current crop of 2m/440 are almost priced to be disposables. What market share is left to go after? 73 Brian/K3KO On 8/19/2013 15:50, Stephen Selberg wrote: Giving the high quality of Elecraft products, and the phenomenal customer service, not to mention the made in the USA stamp, I think an Elecraft 2m/440 HT would be a huge success. I know I would be one of those people camping out in front of the store for a week just be first in line to buy one. Hopefully the Elecraft gods are listening. 73, Steve KS6PD - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3211/6089 - Release Date: 08/19/13 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
HI Steve: Perhaps. I have a feeling, however, that an HT would not be something that Elecraft would offer. There simply are too many competitor products out there that do the job. For example... the $32 Baofeng UV-5R, not to mention all the HTs made by Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, and Alinco. The market is saturated with HTs. As nice as it would be to have the Elecraft brand on the front of an HT, ... I don't see it happening. Elecraft has made it's mark by offering gear that -no one- is making. And, making the best performing unit they can. Consider the line: K2, K1, KX1, K3, KX3. Does -any- other company offer a truly competitive (for features) unit? This is not to say that something might happen way down the road, maybe a digital voice HT, whenever a true DV standard is reached. But, for now, I really do not believe Elecraft would consider marketing an HT. 73 de Ray K2ULR KX3 #211 On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Stephen Selberg wrote: Giving the high quality of Elecraft products, and the phenomenal customer service, not to mention the made in the USA stamp, I think an Elecraft 2m/440 HT would be a huge success. I know I would be one of those people camping out in front of the store for a week just be first in line to buy one. Hopefully the Elecraft gods are listening. 73, Steve KS6PD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Even if a K4 announcement were made today you'd likely experience an almost unbearable waiting period before you'd actually be able to get your hands on one. In other words, it's probably best to just go buy a K3 and have fun in the meantime! You can always sell the K3 later to help fund the K4... Here's what I would like: A remote control head with a direct wireless link to the K3 (or K4, whatever...), for short-distance grab-and-use portability around home and property. For a K4, that would mean the front panel would be a docking wireless control head that could be easily detached and used to operate the rig remotely around the home. 73, Drew AF2Z On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 20:39:06 +0100 (BST), you wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I realize it'll never happen because of the $32 cheapies on the market. I was more dreaming about something I know wouldn't happen. To answer another question someone asked, I'd probably pay $400-$500 for an Elecraft HT that I know would be much higher in quality and workmanship, have great support and customer service, and yes, a manual I could read. I'm sure there are plenty of US hams who would pay more money for a quality made in the USA HT. My earlier statement was rhetorical with distant hopes of possibility. But for now I'll keep saving up my funds for a kpa500 to compliment the shack. I officially drank the kool-aid when I purchased my kx3 and hope to replace everything in the shack with elecraft gear. Is there less expensive equipment on the market? Yes, will it come with the support that Elecraft provides? Probably not. I'm planning on getting the KAT500 this week. Could I get the LDG at600 and save myself $300? I could...but I'd rather spend the extra money for something I know will work and come with outstanding support from not only the company, but a fine group of users as well. To the original poster of this thread, IMHO, I say get the K3 and not worry about a K4. I know I am just as soon as I get more funds as I hate using credit cards. I know I won't have to replace the rig in 2 years as Elecraft works very hard to fix whatever bugs the radio might have. I don't see that support from the yaekencom people. I like my 590, but there's some known issues with it. Over the last 3 years, kenwood has not done much in my opinion to fix them. Instead, I think they put all their time into the 990. Based on my experience from this reflector, if someone has an issue or bug, the Elecraft team immediately tries to duplicate and then fix that bug. If only more companies operated like that. And that's why I'd pay extra for an elecraft HT (I know, it won't happen). As was already mentioned, if a k4 or whatever did come out, it'd probably have a different purpose or use than the K3. So go for it! And get me one too! Hihi I can dream right? 73, KS6PD Sent from my iPhone. Forgive the grammar and typos On Monday, August 19, 2013, Ray Sills wrote: HI Steve: Perhaps. I have a feeling, however, that an HT would not be something that Elecraft would offer. There simply are too many competitor products out there that do the job. For example... the $32 Baofeng UV-5R, not to mention all the HTs made by Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, and Alinco. The market is saturated with HTs. As nice as it would be to have the Elecraft brand on the front of an HT, ... I don't see it happening. Elecraft has made it's mark by offering gear that -no one- is making. And, making the best performing unit they can. Consider the line: K2, K1, KX1, K3, KX3. Does -any- other company offer a truly competitive (for features) unit? This is not to say that something might happen way down the road, maybe a digital voice HT, whenever a true DV standard is reached. But, for now, I really do not believe Elecraft would consider marketing an HT. 73 de Ray K2ULR KX3 #211 On Aug 19, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Stephen Selberg wrote: Giving the high quality of Elecraft products, and the phenomenal customer service, not to mention the made in the USA stamp, I think an Elecraft 2m/440 HT would be a huge success. I know I would be one of those people camping out in front of the store for a week just be first in line to buy one. Hopefully the Elecraft gods are listening. 73, Steve KS6PD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Rick makes an excellent point. Buy a new YaeKenCom and that radio will be the same the day you sell it as it was on the day you bought it. The more I think about it, the more I realize that the biggest threat to the K3 in the future is simply running out of buttons and knobs as features are added to the radio. Maybe at some point there will be a K3 mark II where the big change is a new front panel that has been tuned to the evolving feature set. Disclaimer: I don't know the K3 well enough to critique the current front panel, I suspect the current front panel works fine. I have a KX3. On 8/19/2013 9:10 AM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote: Don hits the nail on the head. Compare Elecraft product support, for example, to YaeKenCom whose only fix for product defects is a new product two years later with new defects! Or to HP whose printers are officially out of support before the inventory is sold off of dealer shelves. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Lynn, We don't have to worry about processorpower. The hardware is already there and still developping. And Yes, sampling up to 6m is possible. Apart from that, the interfacing from the machine to us humans can certainly do better with some innovation (new ideas) as well. 73, Arie PA3A Op 19-8-2013 18:07, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT schreef: Consider for a moment an SDR with no analog filtering at all. How wide would the passband be? Are we going to cover everything from MF to 6m? The A-D converter is going to have to convert everything coming in, and the DSP is going to have to sort out what you want out of everything coming in: broadcast, other services, noise 50 MHz wide, and who knows what else. I'd rather have the DSP concentrate on a smaller bandwidth signal, and have the processing power available for the few MHz I care about at any given time. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
On 8/19/2013 11:38 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote: We don't have to worry about processorpower. The hardware is already there and still developping. And Yes, sampling up to 6m is possible. Arie, I understand your position. It's just that a $20 filter can reduce the amount of processing needed by a couple of orders of magnitude. It probably doesn't even need to be a great filter, you can fix that in the DSP. ... and my experience, working with computers since 1969, is that no matter how much processing you have, there is always a need for just a tiny bit more. The best part of the DSP is that the manufacturer can (most don't, but they can -- Elecraft does) improve the radio over time. I'm not familiar with the other Software Defined Radios out there, but I'll bet that nearly all of them do some kind of analog pre-filtering, then do the heavy lifting in software. -- Lynn __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Y'all are thinking too small. I expect that the next generation will be voice operated, to be followed by a rig that won't require any input from the Ham. Since you are the licensee, it will just text you with a summary of the QSO's that it made on your behalf each day. But then, one day, we'll be able to apply for licenses and take the exams on-line so the rig log on and get the license and we humans won't have to bother ourselves with what the rig is doing. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I could use some education here please: What is the advantage of sampling directly off the antenna? I'm surmising that's what is meant by real SDR vs hybrid SDR. I don't know if 32-bit ADC's existed when the K3 was being designed, but Elecraft settled on the hybrid superhet analog 1st IF/digital 2nd IF for at least one reason and probably many. The dynamic range of signal amplitudes at my coax connector across the 0 to 30MHz spectrum has got to be huge, even after LORAN-C shut down. Is there really any benefit to having that broad a spectrum with that large an amplitude range in the number soup? If you want to observe that spectrum, wouldn't it be better to use a spectrum analyzer and save your communications receiver to be optimized to deal with the tiny little slices we want 99.999% of the time? If the K3 sampled at the 8MHz 1st IF, after the analog roofing filters [i.e. RF amp and 1st mixer only], would it make the K3 a real SDR in the eyes of those who don't see it that way now? I'm serious about the education part, this Is the K3 an SDR thread has been going, on and off, for more than a year. It seems that we have two ideologies going, Digitalists vs Analogists. Unfortunately, debating ideologies qualitatively is rarely productive. My education is in math, my understanding of EE is the result of 60 years in ham radio colored by a math background. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org On 8/19/2013 11:38 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A wrote: We don't have to worry about processorpower. The hardware is already there and still developping. And Yes, sampling up to 6m is possible. Apart from that, the interfacing from the machine to us humans can certainly do better with some innovation (new ideas) as well. Op 19-8-2013 18:07, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT schreef: Consider for a moment an SDR with no analog filtering at all. How wide would the passband be? Are we going to cover everything from MF to 6m? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Lynn, Some filtering ahead or some attenuation or preamp will be there or better said: are there. What I meant is that the transceiver of the near future will use an HF A/D converter, so direct digital sampling. One of the first widely available RX's (at a nice price) was the perseus RX. Lots of info on the net about this little RX. A nice application of this principle is found as a 'web-sdr'. See here http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ You can even check your own signal with it (if propagation permits hi) 73 Arie PA3A Op 19-8-2013 21:12, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT schreef: I'm not familiar with the other Software Defined Radios out there, but I'll bet that nearly all of them do some kind of analog pre-filtering, then do the heavy lifting in software. -- Lynn __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Dear OMs and Yls, DSP helps us all but the analogue side of electronics will be with us for some time. Audio and RF are both analogue signals Amplifiers are needed and amplifiers often benefit from some filtering.The DAC and ADC are of course both digital and analogue.What we want is the optimum blend without any fixation on digital, analogue or computer processing. Many of us feel that Elecraft has got the GUI pretty well developed. The Flex Radio approach just does not suit all of us though perhaps we are as a hobby getting too long in the tooth. Always be ready to investigate new approaches but let us not be too insistent on DSP over all other approaches. 73 Doug EI2CN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi, No, no crystal filters in a pure SDR. But if they sampled after the 1st mixer but before the roofing filter bank, maybe. If Elecraft added demodulator software and an audio output to the P3 that's exactly what the combination would be. Being able to display and record a significant portion of the HF spectrum plus the ability to demodulate very wide modes such as wideband FM is what is expected from a more or less pure SDR. The remaining K3 analog front end including the RF filters, attenuator and preamp would go a long way to make the A/D converter having an easier way. AB2TC - Knut k6dgw wrote I could use some education here please: snip If the K3 sampled at the 8MHz 1st IF, after the analog roofing filters [i.e. RF amp and 1st mixer only], would it make the K3 a real SDR in the eyes of those who don't see it that way now? snip again -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-and-whats-next-from-Elecraft-tp7577832p7577918.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
In fact about all that is included in direct conversion SDR is basic BP filter and possibly a preamp/attenuator. Not sure on those FUN-cube dongle receivers. 73, Ed - KL7UW ==snip== I'm not familiar with the other Software Defined Radios out there, but I'll bet that nearly all of them do some kind of analog pre-filtering, then do the heavy lifting in software. -- Lynn 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com dubus...@gmail.com Kits made by KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
I'm sure Ron AC7AC's ideas were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but think of the possibilities, all within reach: 1. Voice operated - K3, go to 14313 USB, tune the antenna, and set output power at 100 watts 2. Voice recognition - the K3 scans the bands looking for a SSB signal, then detects the operator's call sign. 3. Content filtering (aka Snowden mode) - same as 2 above, but the K3 stops if it hears a call sign from a list input by the operator. 4. Cognitive radio - the K3 scans the bands for a signal, then determines its characteristics (CW/USB/LSB/AM/FM, digital details) and set itself up to match. 5. Heads-up display. 73 Don NA6Z Y'all are thinking too small. I expect that the next generation will be voice operated, to be followed by a rig that won't require any input from the Ham. Since you are the licensee, it will just text you with a summary of the QSO's that it made on your behalf each day. But then, one day, we'll be able to apply for licenses and take the exams on-line so the rig log on and get the license and we humans won't have to bother ourselves with what the rig is doing. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
You could do #5 today if you happened to have Google Glass and some (um, a lot of) spare time. :) -- Phil kj6pon On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Don Putnick don.n...@earthlink.net wrote: 5. Heads-up display. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Voice recognition is just so yesterday. Think of the radio as simple set of extended senses and peripheral extensions controlled by the autonomic nervous system ... Grant NQ5T Sent from my iPhone On Aug 19, 2013, at 4:15 PM, Don Putnick don.n...@earthlink.net wrote: I'm sure Ron AC7AC's ideas were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but think of the possibilities, all within reach: 1. Voice operated - K3, go to 14313 USB, tune the antenna, and set output power at 100 watts 2. Voice recognition - the K3 scans the bands looking for a SSB signal, then detects the operator's call sign. 3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Item .5: source 'DX countries' 'logbook' | grep 'unconfirmed' 'DX needed Item .6:if 'callsign' true /usr/make_noise fi: exit 0 ;o) No I'm not a programmer, but you can get the gist of it. It's almost that easy already. Rick wa6nhc -Original Message- From: Don Putnick I'm sure Ron AC7AC's ideas were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but think of the possibilities, all within reach: 1. Voice operated - K3, go to 14313 USB, tune the antenna, and set output power at 100 watts 2. Voice recognition - the K3 scans the bands looking for a SSB signal, then detects the operator's call sign. 3. Content filtering (aka Snowden mode) - same as 2 above, but the K3 stops if it hears a call sign from a list input by the operator. 4. Cognitive radio - the K3 scans the bands for a signal, then determines its characteristics (CW/USB/LSB/AM/FM, digital details) and set itself up to match. 5. Heads-up display. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
On 8/19/2013 2:15 PM, Don Putnick wrote: I'm sure Ron AC7AC's ideas were somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but think of the possibilities, all within reach: 1. Voice operated - K3, go to 14313 USB, tune the antenna, and set output power at 100 watts Followed by the next enhancement where the K3 replies in an overly-calm, lower pitched voice, I'm sorry Don, I can't do that. :-) I programmed PF1 to be SPKR PH on/off when I first got my K3 [#642]. I use it all the time. When Dick came out with the frequency memory editor, I programmed a bunch in, including 60m CW and SSB, WWV's, NMC wefax, and all of KSM/KPH frequencies. I've never used them since. I can't think of a K3 feature that might change my on-air life that isn't already there, even if I don't know how to use it. I don't think I'm alone. And voice recognition has a ways to go. The perky female voice on the phone says, Thank you for calling Giant Crowbar Towing. How can I help you. I need a tow truck I didn't understand, say 'customer service', or 'billing' I said I need a tow truck to come get my $%@** truck. I didn't understand, do you need the accounting department? Let me talk to your CEO I don't understand 'CEO' can you use another word? Yes I can but you don't want to hear it 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
is involved, you are taking your chances. Hi Hi. Sometimes knobs are just plain easier to use. Yes, there has been a lot of discussion about whether or not the K3 is an SDR. I personally believe that it is, because a significant part of the SIGNAL PROCESSING is done in an executing software program, and that program can be changed. Not as easily as loading a new EXE in Windows, but it can be. Even though the RF front-end follows a traditional analog superhet receiver design up to the second IF. In my mind, there's no question that the KX3 is an SDR. It is similar in very basic layout as an SDR Cube, Softrock/host computer, etc, in that it uses QSD/QSE mixers, an Si570, and a dsPIC back-end that is fully reconfigurable. I remember others here, including the author of much of the DSP code for the K3 and KX3 has previously stated that they also believe both rigs are SDRs. BTW, the Elecraft P3 IS A DDC RECEIVER, with a 14-bit ADC, sampling at about 60Ms/s, and feeding an ASIC DDC chip, then a dsPIC chip for FFT and other DSP work. Yes, it samples the 8.215MHz IF from the K3, but as Elecraft states, it can be used on other radios as well. It does take advantage of the K3's RF front end, including preamps, filtering, etc. I would NOT hook an antenna directly to it! Spectrum analyzers are nice if you can afford one - many people can't. I have both a homebrew W7ZOI one, and a commercial unit. They usually don't have the sensitivity to look at typical weak HF signals, and they aren’t usually designed to demodulate anything, or at least not CW or SSB. Panadaptors/spectrum displays are really coming to the forefront of SDRs. In fact, I would argue the opposite of your comment. Some hams are using SDRs, or at least hardware originally designed as an SDR, for many bench applications. Spectrum analyzers, network analyzers, antenna analyzers, etc can be based on some of the better SDR hardware. HPSDR Hermes, HiQSDR, even Softrocks, have all been used in those applications. I'm not a digitalist, nor am I an analogist. I have several radios: RTL dongles/upconverter, K3/P3, KX3, SDR-Cube, tons of Softrocks, SDR-IQ, Flex 1000, SDR-Widget, SDR2GO, HiQSDR, HPSDR boardset, Flex 6500. I know I forgot a couple. I bought each for a reason, and don't disparage any of them. I did finally sell my Icom IC-720a, a workhorse for over 20 years. Except for the clack-clacking! I've just given talks on SDRs to two local Charleston, SC ham radio clubs within the last week (one tonight). I've been asked whether someone should buy a K3 or a Flex 6x00. To be honest, I told them if they wanted a radio to use and rely on in the next year or so, get a K3, or possibly a KX3. In about a year, the Flex 6000-series MAY be mature enough to change that advice. As Jerry Pournelle used to say in Byte Magazine: RSN (Real Soon Now). I want to see more than just tiny little slices at a time. For contests, I want to not only see how the present band looks, but hopefully multiple bands, so I can see how propagation is moving. No, I'm not a very active contester, that's just one example. I LOVE the K3/P3, and have used them on CW for Field day the last three years. The Flex (any Flex) just isn't ready for that. I'm not an EE, just someone who has played with leading-edge amateur radio for 45+ years. I was involved in the first licensed ATV repeater (WR4AAG), packet radio development, spread spectrum, a little LF, and now SDR. I know how to burn my fingers with an iron. In summary: learn about Direct Digital Conversion (Digital Down Conversion) (DDC - whatever), look it up. Read about it. Don't stick you head in the sand, or you too may be carrying around one of those ancient Motorola 2M FM rigs with tubes in a Yaesu/Kenwood/Wouxun world. There are definitely pitfalls to DDC/DUC radios. But, there are several reasons why every cell phone has an SDR inside. Sorry for the length. To each his/her own. 73, Terry, WB4JFI -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:33 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft I could use some education here please: What is the advantage of sampling directly off the antenna? I'm surmising that's what is meant by real SDR vs hybrid SDR. I don't know if 32-bit ADC's existed when the K3 was being designed, but Elecraft settled on the hybrid superhet analog 1st IF/digital 2nd IF for at least one reason and probably many. The dynamic range of signal amplitudes at my coax connector across the 0 to 30MHz spectrum has got to be huge, even after LORAN-C shut down. Is there really any benefit to having that broad a spectrum with that large an amplitude range in the number soup? If you want to observe that spectrum, wouldn't it be better to use a spectrum analyzer and save your communications receiver to be optimized to deal with the tiny little slices we want
[Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
The thought crossed my mind when I was looking at getting either a K3 or a KX3 too (and ultimately I decided on the KX3, which is still really new). I'll probably be in the market for something like the K3 in another year or two, and like you, if I knew the next model were coming along shortly, I'd prefer to wait and get the new thing rather than go for the old thing. I ran my question by customer service at the time, and the response I got was that they are *always* working on the next new thing, but no idea what it would be called or what the timeline might be like, and they also pointed out that people are still buying and building K2's after all these years. Nick On 18 August 2013 12:39, Trevor Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *N6OL* Saying something doesn't make it true. Belief in something doesn't make it real. And if you have to lie to support a position, that position is not worth supporting. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Wayne and Eric have repeatedly said than any K4-style improvements will be retrofittable to the K3. Here is Wayne's response to a recent thread on the subject: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wait-For-The-K4-Direct-RF-Sampled-SDR-tp7571211p7571223.html Given the fact that the big three bring out new radios every couple of years, it's understandable to wonder why there is no K4. It seems that Wayne and Eric's business model doesn't include soaking people for the price of a new model when suitable improvements can be made to an existing platform. To me, this is a good thing. The fact that there haven't been any firmware updates recently is also good thing- it means that the K3 is inching ever closer to being a mature product. I don't think you'll have to worry about seeing your new K3 replaced by a K4 in a couple of weeks. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/18/13 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Trevor, The K3 is not going to be replaced anytime soon IMHO. In fact, the K3 did not 'replace' the K2 which is still going strong after almost 14 years. Yes, the K2 is a mature product, but Elecraft fully supports it (and can be expected to continue for some long time to come). As an example of the Elecraft dedication to its full product line and continued support, the speech compressor used on the KSB2 board was no longer available about a year ago. Rather than abandoning that 12 year old product, Elecraft re-designed the KSB2 board to use an alternative IC. That is the kind of ongoing product line support you can expect from Elecraft. There will still be occasional firmware updates to the K3, but the fact that the rate has slowed drastically is an indication that the bugs have been worked out and all the specified functions are working well. What I am suggesting is that if you purchase a K3, you can expect it to be supported long into the future. I do not have the 'inside track' information about what Elecraft is now working on, nor can I say when it may be revealed, but you can buy a K3 or KX3 and you will find that not only is it a top performer, but will remain so for some time, and you can rely on Elecraft support long into the future. A new product will not diminish support of the present products. 73, Don W3FPR On 8/18/2013 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
It took about 8 years for the K3 to replace the K2. Of course, you can still get a new K2, and some due. It took about 11 years for the KX3 to replace the K1. And, K1's are still available. And still great rigs. I didn't include the KX1, as I think of it as a niche rig, for those who want the lightest transceiver over other considerations, for back packing, etc. Even if the K3 is mature, it is definitely not obsolete! I have owned all of the kits, and have settled on the KX3, as it meets all of my needs. Which are fairly limited. Fixed and portable HF CW! But, I appreciate good quality. 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Aug 18, 2013, at 12:57 PM, Scott Manthe wrote: Wayne and Eric have repeatedly said than any K4-style improvements will be retrofittable to the K3. Here is Wayne's response to a recent thread on the subject: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wait-For-The-K4-Direct-RF-Sampled-SDR-tp7571211p7571223.html Given the fact that the big three bring out new radios every couple of years, it's understandable to wonder why there is no K4. It seems that Wayne and Eric's business model doesn't include soaking people for the price of a new model when suitable improvements can be made to an existing platform. To me, this is a good thing. The fact that there haven't been any firmware updates recently is also good thing- it means that the K3 is inching ever closer to being a mature product. I don't think you'll have to worry about seeing your new K3 replaced by a K4 in a couple of weeks. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/18/13 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
A new product I would love to see would be a 500 watt mobile/12 VDC amp ... although that would be a very small niche in ham radio and probably low sales. Just thinking out loud here. 73, Mike WA5POK -- From: Scott Manthe scott.man...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:57 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Wayne and Eric have repeatedly said than any K4-style improvements will be retrofittable to the K3. Here is Wayne's response to a recent thread on the subject: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wait-For-The-K4-Direct-RF-Sampled-SDR-tp7571211p7571223.html Given the fact that the big three bring out new radios every couple of years, it's understandable to wonder why there is no K4. It seems that Wayne and Eric's business model doesn't include soaking people for the price of a new model when suitable improvements can be made to an existing platform. To me, this is a good thing. The fact that there haven't been any firmware updates recently is also good thing- it means that the K3 is inching ever closer to being a mature product. I don't think you'll have to worry about seeing your new K3 replaced by a K4 in a couple of weeks. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/18/13 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Look for an SGC powercube. I have one and it works well, you need to find a used one. They may be starting to make them again shortly. ~73 Don KD8NNU -.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..- -Original Message- From: mikefur...@att.net Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft A new product I would love to see would be a 500 watt mobile/12 VDC amp ... although that would be a very small niche in ham radio and probably low sales. Just thinking out loud here. 73, Mike WA5POK -- From: Scott Manthe scott.man...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:57 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Wayne and Eric have repeatedly said than any K4-style improvements will be retrofittable to the K3. Here is Wayne's response to a recent thread on the subject: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wait-For-The-K4-Direct-RF-Sampled-SDR-tp7571211p7571223.html Given the fact that the big three bring out new radios every couple of years, it's understandable to wonder why there is no K4. It seems that Wayne and Eric's business model doesn't include soaking people for the price of a new model when suitable improvements can be made to an existing platform. To me, this is a good thing. The fact that there haven't been any firmware updates recently is also good thing- it means that the K3 is inching ever closer to being a mature product. I don't think you'll have to worry about seeing your new K3 replaced by a K4 in a couple of weeks. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/18/13 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
On 8/18/2013 12:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Perfectly normal. You don't see a lot of K2, K1, and KX1 posts either, or posts for the mini-kit accessories. They're mature products, additions and changes naturally tend to decrease as time goes by. I'm not an insider but I seem to remember Elecraft recently re-designed the K2DSP board for a new part when a component became unavailable. The K3 has been around for 10(?) years or so, early on there were many K3 ideas and suggestions on this list, a number of which were incorporated into the evolving firmware. As time went on, the number of features on the list declined, which is natural. The K3 firmware is very stable and well tested and while people still occasionally come up with a new wrinkle they want included, I for one am more than happy that there isn't a new firmware version every week or so. :-) Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe I retired from engineering as a Division Chief Engineer. I had a sign framed over my desk that read, In the life of every project, there comes a time when you must shoot all the engineers and begin production. The young folks would tinker with the software and hardware until the sun went supernova if not restrained. :-) If by finished, you mean becoming mature, then yes, it's fair to think that. However, be aware that the K2 did not *replace* the K1 any more than the K3 *replaced* the K2 or the KX3 *replaced* the K3. That's not how Elecraft seems to do things. Each of them have unique features and capabilities for differing environments and uses. It's a somewhat unique business model unlike the behavior of several other ham radio manufacturers who shall remain unnamed. That goes for a Seattle-based software company as well. Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Hmmm ... I can think of a lot more worse things than that, but regardless, I'd bet my paycheck, if I still got one, that whatever Elecraft is working on for the future will fill a need in the market place and won't replace any of the existing Elecraft products. I have a KX1 [#697] that I occasionally use in the field and for tracking down weeds that have grown up under the many electric fences around here. My K2 [#4398] is my real field radio. The K3-line [#642] is my station rig. I've played a bit with the KX3, I doubt I'll get one, it's a cool radio, just no real need in my life. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Here is something new.meeting delivery date comments. George, W6GF From: Goldtr8 (KD8NNU) gold...@charter.net To: mikefur...@att.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Look for an SGC powercube. I have one and it works well, you need to find a used one. They may be starting to make them again shortly. ~73 Don KD8NNU -.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..- -Original Message- From: mikefur...@att.net Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft A new product I would love to see would be a 500 watt mobile/12 VDC amp ... although that would be a very small niche in ham radio and probably low sales. Just thinking out loud here. 73, Mike WA5POK -- From: Scott Manthe scott.man...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:57 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Wayne and Eric have repeatedly said than any K4-style improvements will be retrofittable to the K3. Here is Wayne's response to a recent thread on the subject: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Wait-For-The-K4-Direct-RF-Sampled-SDR-tp7571211p7571223.html Given the fact that the big three bring out new radios every couple of years, it's understandable to wonder why there is no K4. It seems that Wayne and Eric's business model doesn't include soaking people for the price of a new model when suitable improvements can be made to an existing platform. To me, this is a good thing. The fact that there haven't been any firmware updates recently is also good thing- it means that the K3 is inching ever closer to being a mature product. I don't think you'll have to worry about seeing your new K3 replaced by a K4 in a couple of weeks. 73, Scott, N9AA On 8/18/13 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/ Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Don is right. Elecraft has never come up with a new model of any of their rigs for you to buy. Instead they improve the existing models and make the improvements 'retrofittable' to existing units. I have a K2 that I built in 2000. It is identical to a brand new K2 purchased today in both functions and specifications in spite of nearly constant design tweaking and enhancing for a number of years. Notice that every new Elecraft product is a new application of technology for specific purposes. The K1, KX1 and KX3 are designed for the lowest possible power consumption and small size for small spaces. The K2 and K3 (and now the entire K-line) are designed with the fixed station with more space available in mind. Each new product released to date employs the latest state-of-the-art components and design architecture to fill specific needs not addressed by the existing products. That said, of course some new products will fit a person's needs better than ones the purchased earlier, so they will upgrade and replace. The technology, the products Elecraft offers and the needs and interests of individual Hams change over time. 73, Ron AC7AC On 8/18/2013 3:39 PM, Trevor Dunne wrote: Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Has there been any talk about a KX3 size version of the K3/0 unit? 73, de Jim KG0KP -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Trevor Dunne Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 2:39 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft Hi All I have been reading the mail here for some time while I debate the purchase of a K3 in my head. I can't help to notice the lack of subjects covering the K3 and the lack of new firmware in over 4 months. Would if be fair to think that development has finished on the K3 and that now all the accessories(amp,P3,ATU,ect) are in place, also the KX3 and matching amp are out there, Have the good people in Elecraft moved on to develop a new radio a K4 maybe Nothing worse than getting something new only for it to be replaced by a newer model a few weeks after getting it. Thanks Trevor EI2GLB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
It's a bit bigger than the KX3 - the same front-panel as the K3, but closer to the depth of the KX3 ... Google k3/0 mini. 73, ~iain / N6ML On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Jim Miller jimmil...@stl-online.net wrote: Has there been any talk about a KX3 size version of the K3/0 unit? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
Talking about new elecraft product? What's the status on the KX3 2M module. Been waiting more than a year for that option. Hopefully it's on top of Elecraft's priorities right now. 73, Robert-KP4Y Sent from mobile device. I apologize for the brevity and any grammatical errors. iain macdonnell - N6ML a...@dseven.org wrote: It's a bit bigger than the KX3 - the same front-panel as the K3, but closer to the depth of the KX3 ... Google k3/0 mini. 73, ~iain / N6ML On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Jim Miller jimmil...@stl-online.net wrote: Has there been any talk about a KX3 size version of the K3/0 unit? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and whats next from Elecraft
This has been discussed on the KX3 list over the past two days. I recommend you go there. --wunder, K6WRU On Aug 18, 2013, at 6:44 PM, Robert Vargas (KP4Y) wrote: Talking about new elecraft product? What's the status on the KX3 2M module. Been waiting more than a year for that option. Hopefully it's on top of Elecraft's priorities right now. 73, Robert-KP4Y Sent from mobile device. I apologize for the brevity and any grammatical errors. iain macdonnell - N6ML a...@dseven.org wrote: It's a bit bigger than the KX3 - the same front-panel as the K3, but closer to the depth of the KX3 ... Google k3/0 mini. 73, ~iain / N6ML On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Jim Miller jimmil...@stl-online.net wrote: Has there been any talk about a KX3 size version of the K3/0 unit? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Walter Underwood wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
