Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Wayne, I will be happy to know when the new fw will be available for those who are using the 8-/5- poles filters combinations in the K3. I am using Main RX: 2.7k/400/250Hz and Sub RX: 2.7k/500/200Hz...:( Many thanks for Your attention to that in order to improve the diversity performance etc. 73 - Petr, OK1RP - http://ok1rp.blogspot.com -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7605006.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Joe A 2.8 KHz filter is not appropriate for for AM So true If you want to operate diversity in AM you will need one of the wider filters. I don't and don't recall mentioning I did want to. I do recall stating I found this behavior accidentally. I really wasn't expecting such a debate about what others think I must not understand. Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604891.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Waiting for Wayne to comment sounds like a stellar idea! So say we all? Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604892.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
I don't know where others might come from, but for me running sound stage diversity implies two IDENTICAL receivers each being fed to one ear. Assigning a requirement that that all should behave normally when the receivers are NOT identical seems unfair among other things. Do we really want the time and cost of Wayne's research spent trying to fake two dissimilar receivers to behave alike in diversity? Why do you want diversity beyond 2.8 kHz bandwidth? For AM? If so don't you really need identical filters for your preferred reception method for AM? For what it's worth I use SSB reception (including a pair of identical SSB filters 2.7 or 1.8) on AM for best diversity reception of weak AM, and that includes music if it's far enough out of the noise. 73, Guy K2AV On Sunday, July 12, 2015, rick.ag...@gmail.com rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I sure hope not! Actually that raises a good question. Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? I can tell you having the sub rx shift seemingly on it's own just because I was changing the passband was interesting to experience. Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604863.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net javascript:; This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k2av@gmail.com javascript:; -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, I am going to go 'out on a limb' and make a wild guess that it did *not* behave that way with the old synth boards. Wayne will likely correct me if I am wrong. With the old synths in diversity mode, there was one synth driving the main RX and the other driving the subRX. With filters being different (2.8kHz for one and 6kHz the other), each receiver could calculate the filter center and apply a correction to its synthesizer, and all would be 'well'. With the new synthesizers, in diversity mode, only the synth for the main is used to drive both receivers. This phase locks the two quite nicely, but if the two receivers are using different width filters, the calculation for the filter center cannot be correct for both filter widths. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/12/2015 3:11 PM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I get that diversity means identical paths but I do wonder if the freq shift might be compensated for even when different filters are used for no other reason than that's all that's available to the K3. Yes that would mean diversity is degraded until one reduces BW down to where the filters are identical. I suggest that might be better than hearing everything in your right ear shift suddenly. It's not a demand. It's only a thought as I thought it worked that way before I upgraded the Synths. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
:-) On 7/12/15 1:35 PM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I really wasn't expecting such a debate about what others think I must not understand. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Guy Please note my response before your posting. It is not that I want diversity beyond 2.8 kHz, I just accidentally did and the current side effect of shifting the RX B passband caught be by surprise as I don't recall this experience prior to updating the Synth boards. I get that diversity means identical paths but I do wonder if the freq shift might be compensated for even when different filters are used for no other reason than that's all that's available to the K3. Yes that would mean diversity is degraded until one reduces BW down to where the filters are identical. I suggest that might be better than hearing everything in your right ear shift suddenly. It's not a demand. It's only a thought as I thought it worked that way before I upgraded the Synths. Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604882.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, A 2.8 KHz filter is not appropriate for for AM as it will limit the maximum audio frequency to 1400 Hz (carrier +/- filter bandwidth). If you want to operate diversity in AM you will need one of the wider filters. If you're not in AM, keep the bandwidth below 2.8 KHz and there will be no frequency shift in the sub RX. I don't see how the compensation for 5 pole filters will work with the widely divergent bandwidth - particularly since the 8 pole filters do not have a frequency offset. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-07-12 1:41 PM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: Joe It's not that I want to use diversity beyond the filters I had in the sub rx, I just accidentally discovered this effect I am looking over Wayne's early comment about how their might be an issue handling 8-pole vs 5-pole shifts. Could not the technique used for that situation be applied when the K3 knows the filter widths are different? Note I fully grasp diversity is degraded when the filters differ; I am just wondering if the frequency shift effect can be compensated for even when diversity is degraded. Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604871.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
If the filter offsets aren't matched, in diversity mode, the firmware has to set up the main/sub synths differently rather than drive both receivers from the main synth. This is supposed to be working, but there could be edge cases not covered yet. I'm looking into that. Wayne N6KR On Jul 12, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Rick, I am going to go 'out on a limb' and make a wild guess that it did *not* behave that way with the old synth boards. Wayne will likely correct me if I am wrong. With the old synths in diversity mode, there was one synth driving the main RX and the other driving the subRX. With filters being different (2.8kHz for one and 6kHz the other), each receiver could calculate the filter center and apply a correction to its synthesizer, and all would be 'well'. With the new synthesizers, in diversity mode, only the synth for the main is used to drive both receivers. This phase locks the two quite nicely, but if the two receivers are using different width filters, the calculation for the filter center cannot be correct for both filter widths. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/12/2015 3:11 PM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I get that diversity means identical paths but I do wonder if the freq shift might be compensated for even when different filters are used for no other reason than that's all that's available to the K3. Yes that would mean diversity is degraded until one reduces BW down to where the filters are identical. I suggest that might be better than hearing everything in your right ear shift suddenly. It's not a demand. It's only a thought as I thought it worked that way before I upgraded the Synths. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Wayne Something tells me I may be your signature edge case for this particular situation. I would be happy to be an early tester. Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604897.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Here is what I posted on the Yahoo group just now. I hope a little time helped clarify my description post starts now ... I can better explain and reproduce the issue now. Thanks to Dale WA8SRA, Don W3FPR , and Wayne N6KR for hints along the way I have the following 8-pole filters Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k I am tuned to 10.000 MHz USB in diversity mode with Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 3.0 I observe RX A XFIL = FL2 (6 kHz) and using BSET I see that RX B XFIL = FL3 (2.8 kHz) At this time RX A passband starts at 10.000 MHz but RX B passband is shifted -1.5 kHz to start at 9.9985 MHz Now I decrease Hi to 2.8 kHz. The instant I do this, RX A XFIL shifts from FL2 (6 kHz) to FL3 (2.8 kHz) and RX A and RX B passband are both aligned properly to start at 10.000 MHz I can work around this. Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604860.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, Something on that order is to be expected when you are using different filters in the main and in the sub. The filter centers do not match, and that leads to calculations of the filter centers which are different - the result is that the K3 is 'confused' and the offset is the result. Use the same filters in both the main and the sub when using diversity. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/12/2015 10:13 AM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: post starts now ... I can better explain and reproduce the issue now. Thanks to Dale WA8SRA, Don W3FPR , and Wayne N6KR for hints along the way I have the following 8-pole filters Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k I am tuned to 10.000 MHz USB in diversity mode with Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 3.0 I observe RX A XFIL = FL2 (6 kHz) and using BSET I see that RX B XFIL = FL3 (2.8 kHz) At this time RX A passband starts at 10.000 MHz but RX B passband is shifted -1.5 kHz to start at 9.9985 MHz Now I decrease Hi to 2.8 kHz. The instant I do this, RX A XFIL shifts from FL2 (6 kHz) to FL3 (2.8 kHz) and RX A and RX B passband are both aligned properly to start at 10.000 MHz __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Agree, Joe -- Not a bug. My recollection is that somewhere in the (vast) info on the K3 is an indication that it is wise to use the same filters in Main and Sub RX. 73, Phil W7OX On 7/12/15 9:51 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? Not a bug ... the nature of diversity since both receivers use the main Rx synthesizer (including filter offset). If you want to use AM and an audio bandwidth greater than 1.4 KHz (filter/2), you will need to add at least one more filter - either a second KFL3A-6K or a second KFL3A-FM (13 KHz) - and select that filter in *both* receivers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-07-12 11:38 AM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I sure hope not! Actually that raises a good question. Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? I can tell you having the sub rx shift seemingly on it's own just because I was changing the passband was interesting to experience. Rick AG6AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Re I can work around this.: Buy two more filters, Rick? :-) Phil W7OX On 7/12/15 7:13 AM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: Here is what I posted on the Yahoo group just now. I hope a little time helped clarify my description post starts now ... I can better explain and reproduce the issue now. Thanks to Dale WA8SRA, Don W3FPR , and Wayne N6KR for hints along the way I have the following 8-pole filters Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k I am tuned to 10.000 MHz USB in diversity mode with Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 3.0 I observe RX A XFIL = FL2 (6 kHz) and using BSET I see that RX B XFIL = FL3 (2.8 kHz) At this time RX A passband starts at 10.000 MHz but RX B passband is shifted -1.5 kHz to start at 9.9985 MHz Now I decrease Hi to 2.8 kHz. The instant I do this, RX A XFIL shifts from FL2 (6 kHz) to FL3 (2.8 kHz) and RX A and RX B passband are both aligned properly to start at 10.000 MHz I can work around this. Cheers Rick AG6AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? Not a bug ... the nature of diversity since both receivers use the main Rx synthesizer (including filter offset). If you want to use AM and an audio bandwidth greater than 1.4 KHz (filter/2), you will need to add at least one more filter - either a second KFL3A-6K or a second KFL3A-FM (13 KHz) - and select that filter in *both* receivers. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-07-12 11:38 AM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: I sure hope not! Actually that raises a good question. Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? I can tell you having the sub rx shift seemingly on it's own just because I was changing the passband was interesting to experience. Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604863.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
I sure hope not! Actually that raises a good question. Wayne, is this effect something you consider a bug? I can tell you having the sub rx shift seemingly on it's own just because I was changing the passband was interesting to experience. Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604863.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Joe It's not that I want to use diversity beyond the filters I had in the sub rx, I just accidentally discovered this effect I am looking over Wayne's early comment about how their might be an issue handling 8-pole vs 5-pole shifts. Could not the technique used for that situation be applied when the K3 knows the filter widths are different? Note I fully grasp diversity is degraded when the filters differ; I am just wondering if the frequency shift effect can be compensated for even when diversity is degraded. Cheers Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604871.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, When you say WWV zero beats at exactly 10.000 in USB mode, what exactly are you zero beating? The carrier or one of the transmitted tones? What happens if you are not in either Split or Diversity - reception on the main receiver only (turn the SUB off)? What the P3 should show is the WWV carrier at 10.000 MHz, but the K3 audio will not be receiving that carrier in SSB mode. The K3 will receive one or the other of the sidebands, so the green band will be offset from the center indicating the sideband that is being received. The center of the green band should be offset by the amount of shift you have dialed in on the SHIFT/WIDTH knobs. If you are using LO/HI CUT, the amount it should be shifted will be the center of the difference between the Hi and Lo frequencies. Normally when you listen to an SSB station, the K3 frequency will indicate the suppressed carrier frequency - but WWV is an AM station, and when tuned properly to listen to the audio, you will not hear the carrier (it is out of the receive passband), but the P3 will still indicate the carrier of the WWV signal. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/11/2015 1:56 PM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all I have a very odd thing happening in diversity mode after installing the new VFO's. I have a K3 with dual receivers and new VFOs using a dipole and loop antenna when in diversity. I also have a P3. I am on current 5.29 firmware and have successfully gone through all required calibration steps after upgrading the VFO. Scenario follows ... I am listening to WWV 10 MHz in USB mode. When I am in Split, not Diversity, WWV zero beats at exactly 10.000 MHz. The P3 green band denoting the K3's passband is nicely lined up with the upper sideband of WWV. When I am in Diversity mode, however, WWV zero beats at exactly 9.9985 MHz. On the P3 I clearly see the WWV signal at 10.000 MHz while the green band denoting the K3's frequency is just as clearly 1.5 kHz lower. I can't figure out what is causing this -1.5 kHz shift! I have had my K3 for some time so I feel I am reasonably competent with it :) but this has me stumped. I have asked K3 Support about this but I thought someone out there might have seen and dealt this this already. 73 Rick AG6AY K3 5706 P3 1835 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Everyone - much thanks for the input. I will try for a compiled response since I had so many responses! what exactly are you zero beating? The WWV carrier ... well ok I'm not exactly zero beating in the proper sense. By tuning the K3 through the 10.000 MHz WWV AM station using SSB mode with Lo = 0.00, I can quickly confirm the extremely low frequency audio is indeed the carrier and that it 'goes through zero Hz at 10.000 MHz. Again, this is not a proper zero beat but it's close enough for Gov't work :) What happens if you are not in either Split or Diversity WWV 10 MHz carrier 'zero beatsz at exactly 10.000 MHz If you are using LO/HI CUT ... and other comments about band pass ... Yep, understood. Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 2.80 when I observed this. Normally when you listen to an SSB station ... Yep, understand. See my test description. If you have a combination of 5- and 8-pole filters in the main and/or sub receivers I used 8-pole filters exclusively. I -did- buy them about a year or two apart, however, that should not matter. What filters do you have installed? Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Freq Offset = 0.00 for all Gain = 0.00 for all except Filter 5 which is set to 2 db on Main and Sub Pay close attention to the filter bandwidth you have dialed in, and make sure that BOTH the main receiver and sub-receiver are using filters of the SAME bandwidth OK, I took a good hard look at the XFIL value as I went in and out of Diversity ... Tuning to 10. again. Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 2.80 Main Rx uses FL3 (2.8 kHz). Diversity uses FL3 also. *Now wait a darned minute* ... the 1.5 kHz shift 'went away'. I don't know how. I did fix some 20M DIGOUT settings I had whacked over Field Day but that surely can't affect this. Wayne I can no longer replicate this and I have not a clue how it fixed itself. I'm game to try more tests but heck I'm going to use this on IARU while I can! Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604853.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, I'll bet that when the frequency shift occurred, you had your bandwidth dialed to something 2.8KHz because in that situation, your Main RX filter would have been using your 6KHz filter in slot #2, and your SUB filter for slot #2 would have been -- EMPTY. Have fun in the contest! 73, Dale WA8SRA What filters do you have installed? Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Freq Offset = 0.00 for all Gain = 0.00 for all except Filter 5 which is set to 2 db on Main and Sub Pay close attention to the filter bandwidth you have dialed in, and make sure that BOTH the main receiver and sub-receiver are using filters of the SAME bandwidth OK, I took a good hard look at the XFIL value as I went in and out of Diversity ... Tuning to 10. again. Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 2.80 Main Rx uses FL3 (2.8 kHz). Diversity uses FL3 also. *Now wait a darned minute* ... the 1.5 kHz shift 'went away'. I don't know how. I did fix some 20M DIGOUT settings I had whacked over Field Day but that surely can't affect this. Wayne I can no longer replicate this and I have not a clue how it fixed itself. I'm game to try more tests but heck I'm going to use this on IARU while I can! Rick AG6AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Dale Hmm. I very well could have set Hi = 3.0 and that would set up the scenario you mentioned. Cool. That should not take long to try. However, I don't recall an absolute requirement for filter parity between main and sub rx as the firmware should select the largest available even when desired BW filter BW. I know diversity quality would be impacted if the filters were not identical but I would not have expected a -freq- shift like I observed. OK I just tried WWV with Lo = 0.00 and Hi = 3.0 on A and B VFO (using BSET). I am in USB Diversity mode tuned to WWV 10.000 MHz. WWV sounds fine XFIL = FL2 (6 kHz) -- yep. this is expected. I hit BSET XFIL = FL3 (2.8 kHz) -- Actually this is what I expected since this is the widest filter on RX B where Main: 1=15k, 2=6k, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k Sub: 1=0.0, 2=0.0, 3=2.8k, 4=2.1k, 5=0.4k ... and no mysterious frequency shift. I still can't figure out where the 1.5 kHz shift came from but I'm grateful it is gone! Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604856.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Dale I think you may be on to something! I just used diversity on 20M in IARU and it is obvious that - RX A is on freq - RX B is 1.5 kHz low When I use BSET I see - RX A XFIL = FL2 (6 kHz) I hit BSET - RX B XFIL = FL3 (2.8 kHz) I then adjusted Hi from 3.0 kHz to 2.8 kHz. Lo! The instant the displayed RX A XFIL changed from FL2 (6 kHz) to FL3 (2.8 kHz) I magically heard the RX B audio shift magically by 1.5 kHz to align with RX B audio. Wow. That was -very- interesting to replicate! Thanks for poking at this with me. *Now that I understand it, I can work around it. Much, much thanks!* Wayne I think we have an honest live one for you now! Cheers Rick AG6AY Interesting! Rick AG6AY -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845p7604857.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Hi Rick, Pay close attention to the filter bandwidth you have dialed in, and make sure that BOTH the main receiver and sub-receiver are using filters of the SAME bandwidth (with offset adjusted if they are not 8-pole filters). For example, if your main RX has a 2.8 KHz filter installed and you are listening within that bandwidth, be sure that your sub-RX is ALSO using a 2.8 KHz filter. If not, you'll experience the frequency shift. I don't claim to know why; only that I've observed that behavior here with the new Synths. This shift did not occur with the original Synth cards. I don't consider it to be a problem; it just means that I need to get another filter for the sub-receiver so that the filter complement of the sub-RX matches that of the main RX, (which is supposed to be the case when using diversity reception anyway). If you have a bandwidth where you know that both the main RX and sub-RX are using the SAME filter bandwidth, use that bandwidth and see if the issue still occurs. If it does, then the issue is being caused by something other than what I mentioned above. 73, Dale WA8SRA Hi all I have a very odd thing happening in diversity mode after installing the new VFO's. I have a K3 with dual receivers and new VFOs using a dipole and loop antenna when in diversity. I also have a P3. I am on current 5.29 firmware and have successfully gone through all required calibration steps after upgrading the VFO. Scenario follows ... I am listening to WWV 10 MHz in USB mode. When I am in Split, not Diversity, WWV zero beats at exactly 10.000 MHz. The P3 green band denoting the K3's passband is nicely lined up with the upper sideband of WWV. When I am in Diversity mode, however, WWV zero beats at exactly 9.9985 MHz. On the P3 I clearly see the WWV signal at 10.000 MHz while the green band denoting the K3's frequency is just as clearly 1.5 kHz lower. I can't figure out what is causing this -1.5 kHz shift! I have had my K3 for some time so I feel I am reasonably competent with it :) but this has me stumped. I have asked K3 Support about this but I thought someone out there might have seen and dealt this this already. 73 Rick AG6AY K3 5706 P3 1835 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@lightstream.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Odd freq shift in diversity mode after VFO upgrade
Rick, If you have a combination of 5- and 8-pole filters in the main and/or sub receivers, it's the new firmware isn't adjusting for the difference between the two when in diversity mode with the new synths. I'll look into that, and if it's a firmware issue, I'll get it fixed ASAP. What filters do you have installed? You can use K3 Utility's crystal configuration screen to check this without opening up the radio. 73, Wayne N6KR On Jul 11, 2015, at 10:56 AM, rick.ag...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all I have a very odd thing happening in diversity mode after installing the new VFO's. I have a K3 with dual receivers and new VFOs using a dipole and loop antenna when in diversity. I also have a P3. I am on current 5.29 firmware and have successfully gone through all required calibration steps after upgrading the VFO. Scenario follows ... I am listening to WWV 10 MHz in USB mode. When I am in Split, not Diversity, WWV zero beats at exactly 10.000 MHz. The P3 green band denoting the K3's passband is nicely lined up with the upper sideband of WWV. When I am in Diversity mode, however, WWV zero beats at exactly 9.9985 MHz. On the P3 I clearly see the WWV signal at 10.000 MHz while the green band denoting the K3's frequency is just as clearly 1.5 kHz lower. I can't figure out what is causing this -1.5 kHz shift! I have had my K3 for some time so I feel I am reasonably competent with it :) but this has me stumped. I have asked K3 Support about this but I thought someone out there might have seen and dealt this this already. 73 Rick AG6AY K3 5706 P3 1835 -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Odd-freq-shift-in-diversity-mode-after-VFO-upgrade-tp7604845.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
