Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker and APF test recording
On 2/22/2021 1:14 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: This recording hows how the new K4 noise blanker algorithm can reveal a signal buried under loud noise. Hi Wayne, Have your beta testers (or other users accumulated any experience blanking with any of K1JT's modes? I've got a couple of solar farms as neighbors that make weak signal work tough on 6M during the day, and other sources in one of the homes that makes a mess during the evenings (I suspect something home entertainment related). It's especially problematic when trying to stretch meteor scatter to it's practical limit. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker and APF test recording
Thanks, Wayne. The effectiveness of the K4 NB will be a major factor for me. FWIW, I have found the K3 NB to be vital in my locality and have depended on it a lot (for hundreds of CW QSOs in the recent SKCC event), its major fault being key "clicks" from adjacent CW signals leaking through when NB is engaged. I'm wondering how well the K4 handles nearby signals when the NB is on, compared to the K3. Also, I'm wondering how well the K4 NB might handle real key clicks produced by mis-adjusted transmitters, of which there seem to be many these days. 73, Drew AF2Z On 02/22/21 16:14, Wayne Burdick wrote: A brief K4 audio sample can be downloaded using the link at the end of this email. This recording hows how the new K4 noise blanker algorithm can reveal a signal buried under loud noise. It also highlights the effectiveness of the audio-peaking filter (APF) when listening to a very weak CW signal. This was recorded on 17 meters, CW mode, in a 1 kHz bandwidth. Both receivers are turned on, tuned to the same frequency, and the recording is stereo. There's a slight delay between main and sub RX audio as the settings change; this is due to tapping A>B to copy the main RX NB and APF settings to the sub RX. Things to listen for (T in seconds): T0:S-9 noise masking very weak carrier T7:Noise blanker turned on so that only atmospheric noise remains; carrier now barely audible T14: APF turned on, 30 Hz BW; carrier clearly audible T23: Carrier disappears, leaving band noise only http://ftp.elecraft.com/K4/K4_audio_samples/K4%20NB%20demo%201.mp3 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to pu...@af2z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker settings for Newbies
1. It really helps if you put the particular Elecraft product you're writing about in the subject line. From reading way down, it "appears" it's a K3. 2. We moved last year from a rural location [38 years] and I have no electric fences around us now. For the 38 years on "The Farm," I was surrounded by them, including ours. If ever there was a noise source suited to complete extinction by the K3 NB, it's an electric fence, and the IF NB alone on mine totally removed all of them. The pulses are short, generally NAR2-3 did it for me. One of them had the old fashioned solonoid with the swinging core, and sometimes [in rain], it's pulses were long enough that NAR4 was necessary. I never needed or used the DSP, and the IF NB has no discernable effect on the received signal. 3. I have no idea what you're referring to with "NB light," my K3 does not have such a thing. There is an indicator in the main display, "NB", which comes on when I turn NB on and goes off when I turn NB off. It doesn't do anything when I transmit. I'd suggest a read of the K3 manual first, then KE7X's excellent manual if you have it. If you don't, I suggest you buy it, it's inexpensive and approaches the K3 [and other K-line products] from a different perspective that a User Manual. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2016 - www.cqp.org On 5/15/2016 10:04 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote: So it seems no matter which IF NB setting I have the rig on, the NB will invariably start to flash once I start transmitting. Maybe I don't understand what I am doing (quite possible), so this is what I am doing. See if this sounds correct. I hear my neighbours electric fence driving me crazy, so I hold in the NB button. As I understand it, I can adjust either DSP NB and/or IF NB. OK, if I leave IF alone and only choose DSP NB, I can run it through a range of DSP T-1, 2 & 3, up to a max of T3-7 (which makes the audio sound all crunchy) using the VFO(a) knob. I can get 'some' satisfaction from the DSP NB, but would like the option of using either/or. I can transmit as much as I want and the NB light never flashes (using the DSP NB). No problem. Scenario 2.hold the NB button in, now using the VFO (b) button (for the IF NB), I can choose NAR(7 choices),MED(1-7) & WIDE (also 1-7) . None of the IF choices really seem to do much against the electric fence noise except maybe WID3 one minute, then NAR4 the next. (yet the pulsing is exactly the same every pulse and other rigs (Icoms, Yaesu's deal with it easily)-the e-fence is a pop pop opo, never changing. What's even odder, is that once I transmit once or twice, the NB will then flash, and it seems to me the NB is no longer engaged - is that correct?is the flashing a warning that you do not have the best selection or a warning that it's now disengaged? Is there a separate board for the NB, because it sure seems to me like it's not working as intended. To add insult to injury, my ol' IC-7410 right next to it pretty much eliminates the E-fence noise altogether w/o breaking a sweat. (I know I shouldn't use the word ICOM here (hi) and I just can't believe this Icom box would be better than a K3.everything I have ever read says the K3 should be superior in every way. I did all my testing on an extremely quiet 17m band, CW mode, 500Hz filter. No amount of varying the bandwidths, hi cut, locut, or an array of filter choices, modes or bands seems to have any affect on the NB flashing. (or it's poor effectiveness) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker settings for Newbies
You need to spend some quality book time and walk away from the radio until you understand how it works. Read and *understand* the *whole* manual once through before laying another finger on the radio. I would suggest the KE7X books as well as the manual(s). You first need to find out what version of firmware is installed and if woefully out of date, which I suspect, update that before changing anymore settings. The days of unpacking a radio, putting it on the desk, plugging it in and having it work like you expect are over. On 5/15/2016 12:04 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote: So it seems no matter which IF NB setting I have the rig on, the NB will invariably start to flash once I start transmitting. Maybe I don't understand what I am doing (quite possible), so this is what I am doing. See if this sounds correct. I hear my neighbours electric fence driving me crazy, so I hold in the NB button. As I understand it, I can adjust either DSP NB and/or IF NB. OK, if I leave IF alone and only choose DSP NB, I can run it through a range of DSP T-1, 2 & 3, up to a max of T3-7 (which makes the audio sound all crunchy) using the VFO(a) knob. I can get 'some' satisfaction from the DSP NB, but would like the option of using either/or. I can transmit as much as I want and the NB light never flashes (using the DSP NB). No problem. Scenario 2.hold the NB button in, now using the VFO (b) button (for the IF NB), I can choose NAR(7 choices),MED(1-7) & WIDE (also 1-7) . None of the IF choices really seem to do much against the electric fence noise except maybe WID3 one minute, then NAR4 the next. (yet the pulsing is exactly the same every pulse and other rigs (Icoms, Yaesu's deal with it easily)-the e-fence is a pop pop opo, never changing. What's even odder, is that once I transmit once or twice, the NB will then flash, and it seems to me the NB is no longer engaged - is that correct?is the flashing a warning that you do not have the best selection or a warning that it's now disengaged? Is there a separate board for the NB, because it sure seems to me like it's not working as intended. To add insult to injury, my ol' IC-7410 right next to it pretty much eliminates the E-fence noise altogether w/o breaking a sweat. (I know I shouldn't use the word ICOM here (hi) and I just can't believe this Icom box would be better than a K3.everything I have ever read says the K3 should be superior in every way. I did all my testing on an extremely quiet 17m band, CW mode, 500Hz filter. No amount of varying the bandwidths, hi cut, locut, or an array of filter choices, modes or bands seems to have any affect on the NB flashing. (or it's poor effectiveness) Ideas? Sub 100 serial number K3 CW mode, 20m, low SWR. Mostly using the 500Hz filter. I don't know the radio at all. . . .but I press NB, twizzle with VFO A and VFO B and get things set to where I think they should be to dampen my neighbours electric fence noise, but after a couple of short transmissions I hear the rig clicking away (relays) and then I see the NB flashing (it's evidently unhappy with my DSP choices), so another round of twizzling. Maybe I have it set too wide.too narrow..not close enough matching.scratch my head. After a half hour of various settings and looking in the manual (and then in the mirror to see if I have stupid written on my forehead) I come here for sage words of wisdom. Is there something obvious that I am doing wrong? I have no idea what S/W revision I am using and barely know most of the options the rig has and cannot ask the PO . Help>?! Thanks for the nice welcome guys and I can certainly get a S/W version (if that's important to this discussion) Mike VE9AA Mike VE9AA Mike, Coreen & Corey Keswick Ridge, NB __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net -- R. Kevin Stover AC0H ARRL FISTS #11993 SKCC #215 NAQCC #3441 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker with SVGA/P3
I 2nd that! Keith -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Noise-Blanker-with-SVGA-P3-tp7593184p7593190.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker test.
Jack, With a hope to be helpful by providing peer review on the experiment that you are trying to do, I offer two quick observations. One is no mention of the input amplitude of the noise pulses, and particularly varying their amplitude. Second thought is that having a real signal to which you are adding the noise pulses to might give more information than just the effect your noise pulses have on no signal receiver noise. A noise blanker could be entirely removing the noise pulses but that leaves holes in the resulting signal you are hearing (the no signal noise of the receiver). You would hear something (changes in the background noise) but not the noise pulses themselves. I hope some of these words may ring a bell or light a bulb giving more insight on your results or other experiments you may want to do. 73 - Mike WA8BXN ---Original Message--- From: wa9fvp Date: 09/30/11 13:42:27 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise blanker test. I made an attempt to plot the noise blanker performance and log the results In an Excel spread sheet. I found that the test was in valid so I used a Different approach. The test involves using a function generator that's built into my Agilent DSOX3024. The generator is set for pulse mode with a 200mv P-P pulse Repeating 15.5 every 15ms. The pulse rate is similar to a car with a bad Ignition system speeding by your ham shack. To insure that there's no RF Getting back into my very expensive oscilloscope, I connected the generator Output to the K3's RX port. The settings were adjusted by listing to the Noise at the speaker. I determined that without the DSP or the I.F. Noise blanker turned on there Are sweet spots and hot spots. That is the sweet spots are where the Pulse width is adjusted so that the noise is minimum and the hot spots are Where the noise is maximum. I found that every 70ns, theres a sweet spot And 35ns form the sweet spot there's a hot spot. Adjusted the pulse width From 20ns to 1 ms and the hot spots and sweet spots were right on target. So what does this mean? There conditions where you can have a motor, car or Any electrical device that generates a pulse with in the sweet spot will Never be heard on you K3. On the other hand there are conditions where the Noise source generates a pulse width thats with in the hot spot, will the Noise blanker effectively reduce the noise. In my original test I didnt know that there were sweet and hot spots. I Ran the test by simply turning the NB and adjust the NB level. My new Approach is a lot more simple and doesnt require checking every sweet and Hot spot All settings from NAR1 to NAR4 are totally useless. It offered no noise Reduction regardless of the pulse width and pulse rate. Settings from NAR5 To NAR7 were somewhat effective but the noise reduction was spotty and the Noise level would vary every 5 or 6 seconds. MED 1 and 2 are useless settings and MED3 is spotty. MED4 to MED7 reduces The noise considerably. The same is true for WID 1 and 2. Usless! WID3 is Spotty and WID4 to WID7 are the best settings. http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/file/n6848682/k3_blkr.bmp - Jack WA9FVP Willco Electronics -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble com/Noise-blanker-test-tp6848682p6848682.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker test.
Hi, Jack, The test involves using a function generator that's built into my Agilent DSOX3024. Ah, excellent choice. :^) The generator is set for pulse mode with a 200mv P-P pulse repeating 15.5 every 15ms. I don't know what this means. I determined that without the DSP or the I.F. noise blanker turned on there are sweet spots and hot spots. That is the sweet spots are where the pulse width is adjusted so that the noise is minimum and the hot spots are where the noise is maximum. I think what you're probably hearing is the sin(x)/x spectrum of the pulse. Every pulse has a spectrum that looks like sine x over x, or sinc. Page 9 of this document: http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-4839EN.pdf shows the spectrum of a repeating pulse. You'll notice that it has peaks and nulls, exactly as you noted. Instead of adjusting the pulse width to observe the peaks and nulls sweeping through your receiver, you could have left the pulse width alone and tuned the receiver across these peaks and nulls. Believe it or not, it's more difficult for the receiver to eliminate pulses when you're near a null than when you're at or near a peak. This has to do with the noise blanker threshhold. R, Al W6LX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
Dave, It's also my impression that the DSP noise blanker introduces more distortion on SSB signals in Firmware 4.22 than in previous firmware. I haven't rolled back to a previous version to check it out like you have but I will next week. Anyone else notice this? 73 to all Geoff G3UCK - Original Message - From: David g0aixda...@aol.com To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 3:03 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems Using the latest Beta Firmware I notice distortion on the audio when using the noise blanker even on low settings. This applies whether dsp or if or both are used. On reverting to Firmware 4.14 no such distortion occurs. Anyone else have similar problems? Dave G0AIX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
Not here Geoff, but I can't really tell. I assume there will be distortion any time one goes whacking great holes in the spectrum of a signal to blank noise pulses, and that will vary widely based on the strength of the signal, presence of nearby signals and many other factors. IIRC the exact nature of the process based on the settings for the NB in the K3 has changed from firmware rev to firmware rev too. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Dave, It's also my impression that the DSP noise blanker introduces more distortion on SSB signals in Firmware 4.22 than in previous firmware. I haven't rolled back to a previous version to check it out like you have but I will next week. Anyone else notice this? 73 to all Geoff G3UCK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
Yes Geoff, 4.22 appears effect the DSP NB more here with me also. I rarely use it but in the last few days I have been trying it out and I am noticing a lot more artifacts than before. 73's Gary On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: Not here Geoff, but I can't really tell. I assume there will be distortion any time one goes whacking great holes in the spectrum of a signal to blank noise pulses, and that will vary widely based on the strength of the signal, presence of nearby signals and many other factors. IIRC the exact nature of the process based on the settings for the NB in the K3 has changed from firmware rev to firmware rev too. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Dave, It's also my impression that the DSP noise blanker introduces more distortion on SSB signals in Firmware 4.22 than in previous firmware. I haven't rolled back to a previous version to check it out like you have but I will next week. Anyone else notice this? 73 to all Geoff G3UCK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679, P3 #546 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
* On 2010 04 Dec 09:05 -0600, David wrote: Using the latest Beta Firmware I notice distortion on the audio when using the noise blanker even on low settings. This applies whether dsp or if or both are used. On reverting to Firmware 4.14 no such distortion occurs. Anyone else have similar problems? Yes, I've noticed the distortion, but have not reverted to an older firmware to test. I have noticed it on particularly strong voice signals on the lower bands, but every other radio I've owned does the same thing so I thought nothing of it! 73, de Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
The mechanisms of noise reduction nearly all result in artifacts of some sort, which a given individual would describe as distortion Removing anything unpleasant from the RF off the antenna while surfacing a perfectly formed SSB audio which was formerly buried in the unpleasantness and totally unintelligible, or even so weak it was not noticed, is the holy grail of noise reduction. I've set right beside someone who called a signal distorted and I could not hear it. It's all in the ear of the beholder. Some recordings of the audio posted to a web page and linked from an email here would be useful. 73, Guy. On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: * On 2010 04 Dec 09:05 -0600, David wrote: Using the latest Beta Firmware I notice distortion on the audio when using the noise blanker even on low settings. This applies whether dsp or if or both are used. On reverting to Firmware 4.14 no such distortion occurs. Anyone else have similar problems? Yes, I've noticed the distortion, but have not reverted to an older firmware to test. I have noticed it on particularly strong voice signals on the lower bands, but every other radio I've owned does the same thing so I thought nothing of it! 73, de Nate N0NB -- The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true. Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Problems
I don't think I've ever had a rig that didn't cause SOME noticeable distortion when used with SSB, but then 88% of my lifetime QSO's have been in CW Mode. Using the lowest settings possible is a good way to reduce the distortion, but it won't completely go away, since it works by chopping out the noise it is blanking (even on CW). 73, Tom Childers Radio Amateur N5GE Licensed since 1976 QCWA Member 35102 ARRL Life Member On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 15:03:40 -, David g0aixda...@aol.com wrote: Using the latest Beta Firmware I notice distortion on the audio when using the noise blanker even on low settings. This applies whether dsp or if or both are used. On reverting to Firmware 4.14 no such distortion occurs. Anyone else have similar problems? Dave G0AIX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker
Hi Andy, Try CONFIG menu NB save (see manual) 73! Paul PD0PSB Andy-12 wrote: Hi all is there any way to keep the noise blanker (NB) on? I have a K3 need to run it here perminantly due to local QRN from electric fencing power line noise. Every time I change band it switches off. Thanks Andy K3/100 (1701) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Noise-blanker-tp2870712p2870759.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
I'm arriving at this conversation a bit late, but let me ask this question. I have a relatively newly assembled K-2, working perfectly as far as I can tell. I have the KNB2 assembled and ready to install. After reading these posts, I'm wondering if I should bother to do it. I find, as Ron said, the filters do a good job with atmospheric noise. I don't have anything else unusual here in the way of noise. Sometimes I get line noise, but it's so irritating I usually don't try to work through it. I'll wait it out. So, should I risk the uninstalling of resistors and cutting of jumpers on a good radio for the improvement offered by the noise blanker? Jimmy Walker WA4ILO Macon, GA - Original Message - From: ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Hello all; I push on a CW filter and it does the same thing! I also press attenuate with same results! Unh? Noise blanker and/or filter does same thing? Why? Because filters and NB may appear to remove atmospheric noise, but it's still there, because it's attenuated. (There's a little more to that but not here) Noise blankers work more effectively on man-made noise such as automobiles, lights, motors, hair dryers (pulse type noise) etc. Not atmospheric noises. Oh, after you did that, you probably had to turn up the volume a bit like I did. It make for easier listening though. Regardless, I love me K1. (smile) Ron, wb1hga W.D. (Doc) Lindsey wrote: evening here on 30Metres, and the QRN seemed incessant, I [probably] accidentally pushed the NB button on a K2. And suddenly the noise all but disappeared. Since then I have come to use it regularly, as there seems to be a whole lot of QRN here in the tiny subdivision. But the NB will normally knock it down to listenable levels. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
NB removes man-made noise, NOT atmospheric noise. Filters DO NOT remove man made noise. Nor do they remove atmospheric noise. As I wrote, they give the appearance the noise is gone, when turned on to narrow the bandwith. That's why you turn up the volume a bit to compensate. The filter's job is to reduce bandwith. (there's more but not here) There is no risk to install NB's and it's a positive move. It just may rid of that line noise you wrote. You will enjoy your radio more, instead of waiting for that to go away. (smile) Ron, wb1hga Jimmy Walker wrote: I find, as Ron said, the filters do a good job with atmospheric noise. I don't have anything else unusual here in the way of noise. Sometimes I get line noise, but it's so irritating I usually don't try to work through it. I'll wait it out. So, should I risk the uninstalling of resistors and cutting of jumpers on a good radio for the improvement offered by the noise blanker? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
I is my experience that the K2 Noise Blanker is quite effective on certain types of impulse noise, while of little help on others, i.e., it is quite dependent on the characteristics of the noise. For atmospheric noise, the noise reduction function of the KDSP2 works better than anything else I have tried. I recommend having both. 73 - Bob, N7XY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
In a message dated 10/1/06 6:58:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ignition noise from large trucks??? All of the ones I've seen are diesel - no spark ignition at all! Many of not most auto and truck diesel engines made in recent years use electronic injection control. Instead of the familiar distribution-type injection pump with individual fuel lines to the injectors, there's a single high pressure fuel rail feeding all the injectors. The injectors are electronically controlled - which can be a source of RFI. There's also a ton of other electronics on most modern vehicles, too. 73 de Jim, N2EY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
In a message dated 10/2/06 10:45:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yep, that's why I also wrote in the message you quoted from: Such trucks often make a lot of hash from various electric motors, etc. - just the sort of thing the NB can't touch. Agreed! My only real point was that the electronic injectors can make noise similar to an ignition system. OTOH, a diesel like this one: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/ My NB works FB, but is by far does the most spectacular job on high-amplitude short-duration pulses like ignition noise and cheap lamp dimmers. That QRN just disappears when the NB is turned on even though it may be blanketing all signals without the NB. Most other QRN sources helped very little or not at all by the NB in my experience. That would include most of the QRN coming from non-ignition sources in large vehicles. Have you had success in dealing with those sorts of QRN using the NB, Jim? I know there're some mods folks have made to the NB but I haven't tried them. Other that cheap lamp dimmers that appear from time to time, I live in a very quiet QTH, fortunately! In my limited experience, the only type of noise that blankers and limiters help is exactly the type you describe - high-amplitude, short-duration pulses. Other types of noise, by their very nature, cannot be helped by a blanker or limiter. I think there's a lot of confusion on the subject of noise, because the word lumps together all sorts of QRN with very different characteristics. 73 de Jim, N2EY also pretty lucky in the QTH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Jim wrote: My only real point was that the electronic injectors can make noise similar to an ignition system. OTOH, a diesel like this one: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/ -- I didn't realize that. Thanks! Wow! That's an ENGINE! It reminds me of the time I stopped in to deliver some parts of a marine warehouse. I had been into the engine room of enough modern ships to no longer be impressed by engines bigger than my house, but this time I was surprised. It was lunch hour and, looking for the guys to give the package to, I found them having lunch deep in the huge building. They were sitting about six feet or so up on a huge round platform of some sort, munching away on sandwiches with their lunchboxes open. After I got the signatures I took a look at what they were sitting on. It was a piston from a marine engine, just like what you'd expect in an automobile but about six feet high and nearly as big around. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
In my K2 # 5422 - I built two (2) NB kits, with no luck in either doing much with noise. For sure it did nothing on ignition/truck noise (3 cement trucks outside our doors). And it did nothing to reduce or change what I call repetitive popcorn white noise signals on bands. Hooked up to a wet noodle wire antenna - I could never verify any operation of NB at all. Someone suggested it only works in high signal level noise situations. Perhaps ... K3NB? Fred FL __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Ignition noise from large trucks??? All of the ones I've seen are diesel - no spark ignition at all! Such trucks often make a lot of hash from various electric motors, etc. - just the sort of thing the NB can't touch. Did you remove jumper W5 from the K2's RF board when you installed the NB? Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred (FL) Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 2:28 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker In my K2 # 5422 - I built two (2) NB kits, with no luck in either doing much with noise. For sure it did nothing on ignition/truck noise (3 cement trucks outside our doors). And it did nothing to reduce or change what I call repetitive popcorn white noise signals on bands. Hooked up to a wet noodle wire antenna - I could never verify any operation of NB at all. Someone suggested it only works in high signal level noise situations. Perhaps ... K3NB? Fred FL ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
VK3HE commented: I have compared it to several other radios. One radio in particular the TS830S has one of the most amazing all round noise blankers. All the noise the Elecraft noise blanker struggles on the TS830S noise blanker will handle on the low threshold setting. The same results can be had on my FT1000D, my mobile TS480 also handles the noise in a more able manner. The TS830S's noise blanker is a killer on rain static on a yagi, the K2's struggles to cope in comparison. Careful, it is not valid to compare the functionality of the NB against other radios. NBs do not work on some noises all cause the receiver to wilt from IMDs. Or so we hear each time somebody wonders why the K2 NB doesn't seem to do anything. Strange, I also find other radios' NBs to work fine on a wide range of noises will do so without adding much of anything untoward. None of them require scratching a transistor case with a screwdriver to establish that the NB works - just flick the front panel switch will suffice. They can take a bite out of some atmospherics even stuff like power line noise the British or Chinese woodpeckers - not completely, but often enough to be able to hear what I need to hear through it. But not on the K2. The K2's NB either does nothing or makes things worse - exactly what we are told here is what all NBs do. My other radios do not have AGC image responses, nor are they so inconsistent with amount of AGC response for a constant level signal on the various bands. My other radios may have NB threshold knobs, but I rarely have to touch them. Turn on NB, noise is reduced or goes away, without introducing anything untoward. IMHO, much of the problem with the K2's NB has to do with this variability in gain across the band, between bands the additional variable of AGC image response. The efforts to explain it away will not change the fact that the K2's NB is the worst performing NB of any radio I have ever used. That the subject keeps coming up here does suggest there might be room for improvement, but again this is based on the invalid comparison with other radios, so we had best shut up, mate. 73, VR2BrettGraham ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
It is designed to filter out man-made noise like from cars, electrical devices in your home, malfunction street lights, etc. I would not count on them to remove anything else. Ron, wb1hga VR2BrettGraham wrote: NBs do not work on some noises all cause the receiver to wilt from IMDs. They can take a bite out of some atmospherics even stuff like power line noise the British or Chinese woodpeckers - not completely, but often enough to be able to hear what I need to hear through it. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
VR2BrettGraham wrote: Strange, I also find other radios' NBs to work fine on a wide range of noises will do so without adding much of anything untoward. All noise blankers that I've used cause some degradation of the receiver's dynamic range performance. This means that in a strong signal environment (like in a contest) you will hear spurious responses when it is on. This is of course a matter of degree, and I know there are sophisticated circuits that are much better than others in this respect. They can take a bite out of some atmospherics I have *never* used or even heard of a noise blanker that reduces atmospheric noise (by which I mean that generated by thunderstorms)! Yes, an antenna noise canceller can do this, but we're talking about noise blankers. The efforts to explain it away will not change the fact that the K2's NB is the worst performing NB of any radio I have ever used. Then you must not have used the unmodified TS850s noise blanker! That the subject keeps coming up here does suggest there might be room for improvement, but again this is based on the invalid comparison with other radios, so we had best shut up, mate. I don't disagree that the K2 noise blanker could be much, much better. But an improved one would be much more complicated. It would probably need to me built with SMT components to fit in the available space. I think -- given the noisy environments that most of us live in, and the fact that this will only get worse -- that noise reduction should be one of the primary receiver design considerations. Because of the difficulty involved in doing it without compromising dynamic range too much, the noise blanker should be designed as part of the basic receiver, from the start, and not as an add-on (although the module itself could be optional). My dream receiver would have an adaptive, computer-assisted noise reduction system that would combine early noise blanking with DSP and possibly other techniques. BPL is just one of many of the new kinds of noise we are facing. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Vic, K2VCO wrote: All noise blankers that I've used cause some degradation of the receiver's dynamic range performance. This means that in a strong signal environment (like in a contest) you will hear spurious responses when it is on. This is of course a matter of degree, and I know there are sophisticated circuits that are much better than others in this respect. - Hi Vic, And some types do not degrade the receiver's dynamic range at all, nor introduce spurious responses in a strong signal environment. The bottom line is cost, not too much if homebrewing. 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Hello all; I push on a CW filter and it does the same thing! I also press attenuate with same results! Unh? Noise blanker and/or filter does same thing? Why? Because filters and NB may appear to remove atmospheric noise, but it's still there, because it's attenuated. (There's a little more to that but not here) Noise blankers work more effectively on man-made noise such as automobiles, lights, motors, hair dryers (pulse type noise) etc. Not atmospheric noises. Oh, after you did that, you probably had to turn up the volume a bit like I did. It make for easier listening though. Regardless, I love me K1. (smile) Ron, wb1hga W.D. (Doc) Lindsey wrote: evening here on 30Metres, and the QRN seemed incessant, I [probably] accidentally pushed the NB button on a K2. And suddenly the noise all but disappeared. Since then I have come to use it regularly, as there seems to be a whole lot of QRN here in the tiny subdivision. But the NB will normally knock it down to listenable levels. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Craig, I have electrical fence impulse noise 24/7 unless the neighbors horse is out feeding on the lawn, then it is off. I find the DSP unit does what you like to see in your last par. You can customize it to work for various circumstances, but I am not the expert. Bill K9YEQ K2-35 5279; KX1-35/3080 ___ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ZD Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:42 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker My view is that the noise blanker needs a continuously variable threshold control, likewise a variable pulse width. Changing component values is just not a reality with noise appearing and disappearing. But i think we will have to wait for the K3, for fixes! Craig VK3HE ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker 60m option for K2
Ah, but it has two toroids! Doesn't that make it worth while? :-) 73, Bob N6WG The Little Statiopn with attitude -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Craig Miller Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:33 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker 60m option for K2 I just finished building and installing the KNB2 andK60XV option boards. As usual with Elecraft it all went together FB and runs as advertised with no problems. I do have two complaints, however. 1. The K60XV has no toroids! What kind of Elecraft kit is it with no toroids to wind? Where's the fun in that? 2. For 120 bucks or so you only get two to three evenings of building fun. And that's stretching it, going as slowly as I could. Now what do I build? The only option left is the 160m board and that doesn't look like it would take very long to build. Help. Craig K3OOL K2 #4790 KSB2, KDSP2, KAF2, KNB2, KX60V, KPA100, KAT100, KAT2, UnPCB's I guess a KX1 is next. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker 60m option for K2
Since you've got the K60XV in there, how about building a transverter or two? That's got to be worth a few evenings, plus there's some toroids in them! When I'm done my K2, if I'm still afflicted by the Elecraft bug, I'll probably be looking at the 6M transverter. 73 de Stephanie va3uxb 2. For 120 bucks or so you only get two to three evenings of building fun. And that's stretching it, going as slowly as I could. Now what do I build? The only option left is the 160m board and that doesn't look like it would take very long to build. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker 60m option for K2
Craig Miller wrote: 1. The K60XV has no toroids! What kind of Elecraft kit is it with no toroids to wind? Where's the fun in that? The UnPCBs must have been a real letdown for you then :-) You could always build the 160m option forget to solder some relay legs. I found that was good for making the building/debugging experience last a bit longer 73, Dave G3VGR K2/100 #4783 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker 60m option for K2
Craig, You are correct, the K160RX should take you only about 2 or 3 hours total depending on how proficient you are at removing the heat sink from the PA transistors. (Tongue planted firmly in cheek) You might want to make a major mechanical job out of attaching the BNC connector the rear panel - you could work like a person who is 'all thumbs' and take quite a long while geting the hex nut started straight on the connector body threads or something like that G - little efforts like that can increase your build time considerably (assuming that is a worthy goal). (Tongue normal) Have a great time installing the rest of your preferred K2 options, and then enjoy operating it. We all must take a break from the build process at one time or another (at least my wife says that should be true!!!). You could always buy another K2 and start over. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- I just finished building and installing the KNB2 andK60XV option boards. As usual with Elecraft it all went together FB and runs as advertised with no problems. I do have two complaints, however. 1. The K60XV has no toroids! What kind of Elecraft kit is it with no toroids to wind? Where's the fun in that? 2. For 120 bucks or so you only get two to three evenings of building fun. And that's stretching it, going as slowly as I could. Now what do I build? The only option left is the 160m board and that doesn't look like it would take very long to build. Help. Craig K3OOL K2 #4790 KSB2, KDSP2, KAF2, KNB2, KX60V, KPA100, KAT100, KAT2, UnPCB's I guess a KX1 is next. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] noise blanker ineffectual
Roland, The tightness of the toroid windings will make no difference - the important thing with toroids is that they have the correct number of turns, and not much else matters - even the winding direction does not matter electrically. The K2 noise blanker is more effective on impulse types of noise - like ignition noise. In many reports, it knocks out impulse noise better than the NB in other some other rigs, but there are also many reports (like yours) that the K2 NB is not effective on a particular type of noise which is killed by a NB in some other rigs. There is a mod to increase the blanking time which some folks have found works better on the types of noise that they encounter. Look at http://www.qslnet.de/member/la3za/K2/modAny.html#KNB2 for additional information. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- All the indicators say the noise blanker is functioning, I mean it says it's on, but I really don't hear any difference at all. Can't tell a thing. It certainly isn't as good as the ft920. So I'm wondering if maybe I wound the toroids to tight. The first time I wound them the wrong direction. When I re-wound them with the same wire, I came up with an inch or more extra wire. Would this make a difference? Should I re-do them with fresh wire? I'm sure this has been discussed lots before, but I haven't found the thread of it yet in the archives. Thanks, Roland PS. . . And thank you Charlie W0YG for the hand mic! That was quick! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] noise blanker ineffectual
Thanks Don, I may try that one soon. I am about to start on the SSB module now. So get ready for another round of stupid questions. hi hi Roland in Stockton N5VWN/6 - Original Message - From: W3FPR - Don Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roland Elvie Whitsitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:26 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] noise blanker ineffectual Roland, The tightness of the toroid windings will make no difference - the important thing with toroids is that they have the correct number of turns, and not much else matters - even the winding direction does not matter electrically. The K2 noise blanker is more effective on impulse types of noise - like ignition noise. In many reports, it knocks out impulse noise better than the NB in other some other rigs, but there are also many reports (like yours) that the K2 NB is not effective on a particular type of noise which is killed by a NB in some other rigs. There is a mod to increase the blanking time which some folks have found works better on the types of noise that they encounter. Look at http://www.qslnet.de/member/la3za/K2/modAny.html#KNB2 for additional information. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- All the indicators say the noise blanker is functioning, I mean it says it's on, but I really don't hear any difference at all. Can't tell a thing. It certainly isn't as good as the ft920. So I'm wondering if maybe I wound the toroids to tight. The first time I wound them the wrong direction. When I re-wound them with the same wire, I came up with an inch or more extra wire. Would this make a difference? Should I re-do them with fresh wire? I'm sure this has been discussed lots before, but I haven't found the thread of it yet in the archives. Thanks, Roland PS. . . And thank you Charlie W0YG for the hand mic! That was quick! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
You might try DSP. DSP NR helps, but does not help as much as on some other rigs. At 06:54 AM 7/16/2005, Max Susan wrote: I am located very near to the main railway line from London to Birmingham. Four tracks and 25 Kv overhead wires. Very frequent trains and you can imagine the noise. The noise blanker is totally ineffective. I am living on a narrowboat on the Grand Union canal and use a Swantenna model 45. Does anyone have any suggestions? Max M/ZL4VV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker
Max Any chance you could use some form of receiving loop? You could orient it with its null toward the highest noise intensity in your location. 73, Bob N6WG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Charles Greene Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 5:56 AM To: Max Susan; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker You might try DSP. DSP NR helps, but does not help as much as on some other rigs. At 06:54 AM 7/16/2005, Max Susan wrote: I am located very near to the main railway line from London to Birmingham. Four tracks and 25 Kv overhead wires. Very frequent trains and you can imagine the noise. The noise blanker is totally ineffective. I am living on a narrowboat on the Grand Union canal and use a Swantenna model 45. Does anyone have any suggestions? Max M/ZL4VV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
Thanks for all the very helpful replies regarding the noise blanker! Mike AB3AP Ron D'Eau Claire wrote on 04/30/05 11:37 ET: Mike AB3AP wrote: I've noticed the majority of K2s seem to be built with the NB. [...] - The noise blanker is designed to suppress noise consisting of a train of high-intensity pulses with a regular interval between them. [...] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
Jim: I found that nothing worked here until I RTFM and changed the NB threshold from High to Low. This whacked the horrendous track-light noise when my family has the audacity to use the family room when I am on 40 meters. ;-) Have you changed that setting? I really am going to fix these track lights, real soon now. Bob N4HY Jim Brown wrote: On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:42:19 -0700, Darrell Bellerive wrote: Have you considered the mods for the noise blanker: http://www.qsl.net/ve3mcf/elecraft_reflect/KNB2_Mods.txt That mod does NOT work for me. I own two KNB2's. One I built, one came in a K2 that I bought used, and had that mod. It simply didn't work at all. I've restored it to stock, and now it works fine. Jim K9YC _ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: In my location, the K2 was unusable without the KNB2, so I'd get it in step 1. But as they say, YMMV. I've noticed the majority of K2s seem to be built with the NB. I don't have it, and since I don't seem to be having any man-made noise problems I've been wondering when where the NB is useful. Is it mainly for presumably noisier urban and suburban areas? Without it would something like Spectrogram show continual spikes at certain frequencies? And finally, would the DSP board have any substantial effect on the sort of man-made noise the NB addresses? Thanks! Curiously yours, Mike AB3AP ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
Mike AB3AP wrote: I've noticed the majority of K2s seem to be built with the NB. I don't have it, and since I don't seem to be having any man-made noise problems I've been wondering when where the NB is useful. Is it mainly for presumably noisier urban and suburban areas? Without it would something like Spectrogram show continual spikes at certain frequencies? And finally, would the DSP board have any substantial effect on the sort of man-made noise the NB addresses? Thanks! - The noise blanker is designed to suppress noise consisting of a train of high-intensity pulses with a regular interval between them. Good examples are the raucous buzz most cheap incandescent lamp dimmers produce or the staccato pops produced by poorly-shielded automobile ignition systems, especially on the higher frequencies. If the noise does not have pulses that occur with very fast rise times and at regular intervals, the noise blanker won't be able to identify it from regular QRN or it won't able properly time the action to suppress the pulses. It does a wonderful job on the proper sort of noise but, like all such noise blankers, it does it at some expense in performance. The blanker actually shuts off the i.f. strip for the duration of each pulse. Instead of a train of loud pops coming through the second detector and down the audio channel, you have a chain of 'holes' where there is no output. The problem is that process of switching the i.f. strip on and off quickly also turns the i.f. into an unintentional frequency mixer. With the noise blanker on, strong signals can mix with each other in the i.f. producing spurious artifacts that sound like everything from normal QRN to actual spurious signals on the band. That's why the noise blanker has an on/off switch. The noise blanker should only be turned on when it's needed. I don't have the DSP unit in my K2 so I can't compare them. The sorts of noise the noise blanker is designed to produce are more likely to be encountered in a urban environment, although sources capable of drowning out the bands might also be in your own home. The noise from cheap lamp dimmers usually doesn't travel very far, for example. The troublesome ones are usually very close by. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
I have a K2 with NB and the NB is very effective in the urban/suburban area I live it with lots of noise. But I did not get the NB for my K1 which is only used in the field where it is so quiet I sometimes think my radio has died. I'd say, get it without the NB and add it later if the noise in your operating environment is intolerable. Eric KE6US -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Markowski Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:11 AM To: Elecraft Main Group Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?] Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: In my location, the K2 was unusable without the KNB2, so I'd get it in step 1. But as they say, YMMV. I've noticed the majority of K2s seem to be built with the NB. I don't have it, and since I don't seem to be having any man-made noise problems I've been wondering when where the NB is useful. Is it mainly for presumably noisier urban and suburban areas? Without it would something like Spectrogram show continual spikes at certain frequencies? And finally, would the DSP board have any substantial effect on the sort of man-made noise the NB addresses? Thanks! Curiously yours, Mike AB3AP ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
In a message dated 30/04/05 16:12:07 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've noticed the majority of K2s seem to be built with the NB. I don't have it, and since I don't seem to be having any man-made noise problems I've been wondering when where the NB is useful. Is it mainly for presumably noisier urban and suburban areas? Without it would something like Spectrogram show continual spikes at certain frequencies? And finally, would the DSP board have any substantial effect on the sort of man-made noise the NB addresses? Reply: -- At first I thought the KNB2 noise blanker in my K2 was not working as it had no effect on the normal type of noise received at my QTH. Then after quite a few months found that the NB did indeed work and very well, but only on impulsive noise with sharp rise times like automobile ignition interference. Seems that the KNB2 is a lot more selective in what it will suppress. My old faithful Yaesu FT-480R 2m multimode on the other hand is not as choosy and will work over a wider range of noise types. The FT-480R if anything is rather simpler in the NB circuit design than the KNB2. The FT-480R picks up the RX wide band input half way through the two roofing filters that provide initial bandwidth control after the first mixer. It uses a relatively high gain IF section controlled with AGC to feed a detector circuit that gates G2 in the 2nd mixer MOSFET. It does work exceptionally well though, removing a variety of noise types. If the KNB2 worked to the same degree I would be very happy. The incidence of the type of interference that the KNB2 will gate out is seldom experienced at my QTH, so it gets very little use. In retrospect could have saved a some money by leaving the KNB2 out in my K2, though as has been pointed out in other postings there are some QTH where this noise blanker is really useful. Only hope that eventually some future mod or redesign of this module may be of benefit with the type of noise I suffer from. As regards use of the DSP2, I do not have one in my K2, but do have an external Timewave DSP-9+ available. The DSP-9 works I would guess in a similar way to the DSP2 in that it is in the audio chain. Impulsive noise is not removed by this device in noise reduction mode (NRr), though longer term noise that the normal noise blanker will not touch is suppressed in amplitude during it's duration. I would guess the audible effect is in a way similar to what used to happen with ANL circuits in the AM days. The DSP-9 and would presume other audio DSP devices have a longer delay in response time and so prevent any chance of removing sharp rise time noise. Though it may be looked on as heresy by the K2 CW fraternity, in the Timewave DSP-9+ SSB mode, morse can be almost completely eradicated by the action of noise reduction on tone (NRt). When going over to CW with an external DSP device, the user has to be careful that this NRt facility is switched off, otherwise little morse is heard. Bob, G3VVT K2 #4168 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise blanker [was: K2 battleplan?]
On April 30, 2005 4:31 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only hope that eventually some future mod or redesign of this module may be of benefit with the type of noise I suffer from. Bob, G3VVT K2 #4168 Have you considered the mods for the noise blanker: http://www.qsl.net/ve3mcf/elecraft_reflect/KNB2_Mods.txt -- Darrell Bellerive Amateur Radio Stations: VA7TO, VE7CLA Grand Forks, British Columbia, Canada ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Wish List.
Geoff, I think that you hit the nail on the head 'cost'. There are lots of nice things one could do to the K2 such as a better noise blanker, but only a few people would want to pay for them. Good luck with your homebrew extensions. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:32:10 -, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote: Thanks for the comment Stewart. I suspect that the advent of DSP has put the very effective Evasive Noise Blanking technique in the background, perhaps cost. I would like to try eliminating the IF Gate, and have the blanker's output switch off/on the LO drive to one of the 'H' mixers in the homegrown receiver. This should be quite easy as 'logic' circuitry provides the 50% duty cycle square wave LO to each mixer, but I would probably get myself in a muddle with timing etc. Worth trying though as then there would be no blanking circuitry in the direct signal path, other than the input which is well isolated.. 73, Geoff GM4ESD - Original Message - From: Stewart Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Elecraft Discussion List elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Wish List. The Trio TS180S had this scheme of noise blanker as well. 73 Stewart G3RXQ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Wish List.
The Trio TS180S had this scheme of noise blanker as well. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:55:13 -, Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy wrote: Greetings Folks, An Evasive noise blanker is on my wish list. This is the system where the noise blanker receives noise from out of band and none of its circuits (except for its input tap off and the IF Gate) are in the main signal path. Best done when you can tune the noise blanker receiver a little to avoid strong out of band signals (ie evasive). The result is that your crosstown friend at S9++ and 1 kc up does not key the noise blanker. The idea has been around for a long time, Collins used it but they picked up noise at low VHF. Bit more complex but it really pays off I've found. 73, Geoff. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Noise Blanker Wish List.
Geoff That's the way the NB in my old Kenwood TS180 worked. It has an 8 MHz 1st IF, and the NB pickoff is before the 8 MHz crystal filter, as I recall. The NB is tunable with a front panel control to allow you to move away from an interfering signal. 73, Bob N6WG -- Original message -- Greetings Folks, An Evasive noise blanker is on my wish list. This is the system where the noise blanker receives noise from out of band and none of its circuits (except for its input tap off and the IF Gate) are in the main signal path. Best done when you can tune the noise blanker receiver a little to avoid strong out of band signals (ie evasive). The result is that your crosstown friend at S9++ and 1 kc up does not key the noise blanker. The idea has been around for a long time, Collins used it but they picked up noise at low VHF. Bit more complex but it really pays off I've found. 73, Geoff. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
