RE: Rf flammable atmosphere ignition and Halfwave Dipoles

[Price, Ed]

-Original Message-
From: k3row [mailto:k3...@eurobell.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 2:03 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Rf flammable atmosphere ignition and Halfwave Dipoles


Can anyone help me?
 
The overall context of this question is the extraction efficiency of a
dipole representing a generic mechanical structure from the point of view of
rf fields (> 30 MHz) and ignition of explosive and flammable atmospheres. A
British standard I have been looking at assumes that the structure has the
rf energy extraction efficiency of a half wave dipole (I am ignoring here
the extra gain also assumed due to the potential for the structure to behave
as an antenna with extra gain).
 
The basic question is to do with the extraction efficiency of a dipole
versus frequency, since, if the rf frequency is known and the structure is
known then it need not be assumed that the structure will act as a half wave
dipole (the frequency and structure dimensions may not be compatible)
 
My specific questions are these:
 
Assuming that what I am actually taking about is dipole gain (I am a bit of
an ignoramus I'm afraid) Can anyone give me a basic approximate formula for
the variation of gain with frequency for frequencies that are up to a factor
of (say) 10 away (above and below) from the resonant frequency of a half
wave dipole. Is the maximum gain cyclic (e.g is there a resonance at, say, a
dipole length of 1.5, 2.5 etc wavelengths or does the gain just "disappear"
when the frequency moves away from a half wave dipole condition?). If the
gain is cyclic what would be an approximate formula for the gain at, and
around, these cyclic frequencies?(Note that I am not interested in polar
diagram directions, merely gain)
 
I am not entirely sure that I have made these questions very clear - but I
hope so.
 
Has anyone got any formulae or does anyone know where I can get some?
 
In hope
 
 
Dave Palmer, UK 

 
 
 
Dave:
 
A quick answer is that the efficiency of a dipole antenna is cyclic with
frequency.
 
Let's assume you have a center-fed dipole whose arms are each about 25 cm
long. Connect a signal generator to a coax feeding the center of that dipole
(let's not worry about impedance matching yet). You can now start a
frequency sweep at 1 MHz, and continue through 1 GHz. If you had placed a
dual directional coupler into the coax line, you would see periodic changes
in the amount of RF power reflected from the antenna. Remember that
reflected power is power not radiated, so reflected power is an indication
of antenna efficiency (radiating ability).
 
At certain frequencies, you would see a marked decrease in the reflected
power. Minimum reflected power would be at about 300 MHz, but you would also
have seen dips (indicative of resonances) at 150 MHz, 75 MHz, 37 MHz, etc.
 
If you are concerned about "extraction" efficiency, you can remember that
efficiency of an antenna is reciprocal.
 
Once you get above the fundamental resonant frequency, you will also see the
periodic resonances, at 2Fo, 3Fo, 4Fo, etc.
 
For some good weekend reading, look at the ARRL Antennas Handbook, or the
ARRL Radio Amateurs Handbook. The RSGB also has some fine (but slimmer)
publications.
 
Regards,
 
Ed
WB6WSN
 

Ed Price 
ed.pr...@cubic.com 
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab 
Cubic Defense Systems 
San Diego, CA  USA 
858-505-2780  (Voice) 
858-505-1583  (Fax) 
Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty 
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis 

 

Rf flammable atmosphere ignition and Halfwave Dipoles

[k3row]

Can anyone help me?

The overall context of this question is the extraction efficiency of a dipole 
representing a generic mechanical structure from the point of view of rf fields 
(> 30 MHz) and ignition of explosive and flammable atmospheres. A British 
standard I have been looking at assumes that the structure has the rf energy 
extraction efficiency of a half wave dipole (I am ignoring here the extra gain 
also assumed due to the potential for the structure to behave as an antenna 
with extra gain).

The basic question is to do with the extraction efficiency of a dipole versus 
frequency, since, if the rf frequency is known and the structure is known then 
it need not be assumed that the structure will act as a half wave dipole (the 
frequency and structure dimensions may not be compatible)

My specific questions are these:

Assuming that what I am actually taking about is dipole gain (I am a bit of an 
ignoramus I'm afraid) Can anyone give me a basic approximate formula for the 
variation of gain with frequency for frequencies that are up to a factor of 
(say) 10 away (above and below) from the resonant frequency of a half wave 
dipole. Is the maximum gain cyclic (e.g is there a resonance at, say, a dipole 
length of 1.5, 2.5 etc wavelengths or does the gain just "disappear" when the 
frequency moves away from a half wave dipole condition?). If the gain is cyclic 
what would be an approximate formula for the gain at, and around, these cyclic 
frequencies?(Note that I am not interested in polar diagram directions, merely 
gain)

I am not entirely sure that I have made these questions very clear - but I hope 
so.

Has anyone got any formulae or does anyone know where I can get some?

In hope


Dave Palmer, UK

RE: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[Peter Tarver]

Greg -

In point of fact, no NFPA standards are addressed by federal
law (keep in mind, regulation is not law, even if given the
power of law).  Even 29CFR, as far I have seen, doesn't
outright adopt the Code in toto, but references portions of
it variously as mandatory or recommended.

NFPA 70 is an model/adoption code and no AHJ is under any
obligation to use any version, save as required by
municipal, county or state laws.  Even so, there are some
jurisdictions using NFPA 70-1984 (I don't recall which),
rather than the latest (2002).  Also, AHJs, at their
discretion, may adopt only portions of NFPA 70, mix and
match bits and pieces from various editions, or not use it
at all.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


> -Original Message-
> From: Greg Galluccio
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:07 AM
>
> My understanding is that the federal law (NFPA
> Code) is the minimum
> requirement and that state and local authorities
> can and do apply additional
> requirements as they deem appropriate.
>
> Greg Galluccio


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RE: Suffocation hazard

[Tyra, John]

Hello Nick,

Yes I would like to take you up on your kind offer. Please e-mail to my
address. I am particularly interested in the perforations you recommend.

I have found that California does have regulations as part of their BUSINESS
AND PROFESSIONS CODE. Here is a link:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=22001-23000&;
file=22200-22205

They require a warning statement if a bag is less than 0.001 inches
(0.0254mm) thick. I also received information from the U.S. Consumer Product
Safety Commission which informed me that there are no Federal Regulations on
this subject.

I am still researching and will be happy to share my future findings.

Best regards,

John


-Original Message-
From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:50 PM
To: Tyra, John
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Suffocation hazard



I've looked into this in the past, and there appears to be no 
legislation. There is a guide to appropriate wording in BS 1133 
section 21:1991 but, frankly, this falls far short of a useable 
specification for safety markings on bags. Most retailers also want 
to see perforations, and some specify a minimum thickness for film 
used for bags for toys and child appealing products.

In the end we drafted our own spec. based on our experience with 
major UK retailers and I'd be happy to mail you a copy (PDF, 20kb) if 
you'd like.

Rgds

Nick.




At 12:41 -0400 30/7/02, Tyra, John wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I am in the process of reviewing the plastic bags we use to package our
>products and have a old 100th generation copy of an excerpt from a
>California Business and Professions Code which implies that plastic bags
>less than a mil thick need to have a warning marking.
>
>Does anyone have more info on this issue or know of any other regulations
>concerning plastic bag regulations?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help...
>
>regards,
>
>John Tyra
>Design Assurance Engineering,
>Product Safety & Regulatory Manager
>
>Bose Corporation
>The Mountain, M.S.-450
>Framingham, MA 01701-9168
>508-766-1502 Phone
>508-766-1145 Fax
>john_t...@bose.com
>
>
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Re: Marking Languages for Canada

[Douglas_Beckwith]

The key word in 1.7.12 is 'country'. At the moment, Canada is one country,
with two official languages, either of which is legally acceptable. I will
say though, that regradless of the law, I believe we are morally obliged to
make safety instuctions as clear and understandable as possible, as a
misunderstanding of an instruction could potentially cause a hazard to
someone. That means, we translate important instructions/labels into French
and English for Canada.

Regards

Doug




soundsu...@aol.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/02/2002 11:37:56 AM

Please respond to soundsu...@aol.com

Sent by:  owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org


To:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
cc:
Subject:  Re: Marking Languages for Canada



Gary McInturff wrote:

I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always
followed up, and II think is  somewhat vague about it, intentionally I
imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries
the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or
if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the
export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I
believe),
Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those
countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same
clauses and they are no more illuminating.


1.7.12 Language
Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language
which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be
installed.
<<<

This is pretty much on the mark.  I was a manager at UL when this issue was
put forth to the chief engineer's office.  It was recognized that the
standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the
appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service
procedures specifically included  that requirement.  However, it was also
understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know
where
the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS
inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and
determine
its compliance with the standard.  Therefore, the decision was to have the
inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the
burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the
manufacturer.


Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Peter Tarver]

I must throw in with Rich Nute on this topic.  The need for
a marking in this instance is very context sensitive: if the
marking is required by the US standard, but not by the
Canadian standard, the marking does not need to be
translated into French.  Otherwise, there is no legal
requirement.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE
Product Safety Manager
Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services
San Jose, CA
peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com


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RE: Packaging for Czech Republic - Ecological Law 477/2001

[Wenzel, Kati]

Dave,
A follow up question on the same topic. I haven't had a chance to look at
the EN standards.  You stated the only harmonized standards listed under
94/62 are EN's 13428 and 13432.  It appears that someone is asking Lyle for
a declaration of conformity, is this a self declaration for using certain
materials in their packaging?

Thanks, 

Kati Wenzel


-Original Message-
From: david.gra...@realcompliance.com
[mailto:david.gra...@realcompliance.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:50 AM
To: Luttrell, Lyle; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Packaging for Czech Republic - Ecological Law 477/2001



Hi Lyle,
As an EU accession state I expect that 477/2001 is the Czech transposition
of the EU directive on packaging and packaging waste (94/62/EC). The only
harmonised standards listed under 94/62 are EN's 13428 and 13432.
Regards,

Dave Graham.

- Original Message -
From: Luttrell, Lyle 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: Packaging for Czech Republic - Ecological Law 477/2001


>
> Hello group,
> I just received an inquiry regarding compliance with a new ecological law
#
> 477/2001 in the Czech Republic concerning packaging of goods.
> Apparently the law sets requirements on design and marking of packaging
and
> preparation of a declaration and other reporting requirements.
> The standards are listed below; they are not ones that I am familiar with.
> The products we are selling are ITE (tape automation systems).
>
> Does anyone have experience with this yet? Any idea of what the effective
> date is?
>
> Extract from inquiry:
> We are obliged to sign a declaration stating that the packaging is
complying
> or not with the law in general and with each of the standards, describing
> the contents of the packaging and stating that we have all the technical
> documents of the packaging and we are able to show them to the control
> authority.
>  We need a separate declaration for every group of packaging that would
> describe used material of packaging and state whether the packaging is
> compliant to each of the standards or not.
> We have been informed that the standards and declaration should be similar
> to the European standards. The declaration form should be the appendix B
of
> the standard EN 13427.
> Standards to meet are:
> 1. EN 13428. EN 13427
> 2. EN 13429
> 3. EN 13430
> 4. EN 13431
> 5. EN 13432, EN 13428
> 6. EN 13428, EN 13695-2
> 7. EN 13695-1
> We have the obligation of record keeping and the obligation to get back
the
> packaging from the end customer for free. One way to cover this duty is to
> contract a company newly authorized by the law whom we pay for their
> services. To get registered and serviced we have to report the amount of
> sold packaging in tons sorted by the used material. The registration is
> necessary for customs officers.
>
>
> Lyle Luttrell, PE
> Quality/Reliability/Compliance Engineer
> PeAk Storage Solutions, a Division of MaxOptix
> 246 South Taylor Avenue
> Louisville, CO 80027
> Phone:  303-664-8286
> Fax:  303-664-8299
>
>
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RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Jim Seippel]

I have a direct plug-in power supply in my hand that has the following
warnings:

CAUTION Indoor use only

AVERTISSEMENT Pour utilisation a l'interieur seulement

 

I looked at another and it has the following warnings:

CAUTION Risk of electric shock, dry location use only

ATTENTION Risque de decharge electrique, a utiliser seulement dans un
endroit sec.

Shock hazard, non-serviceable parts inside.

 

If the French Canadian warnings are not on the power supply, then they
are required to be located in the instruction manual. 

 

Best regards,

Jim Seippel

Re: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[SOUNDSURFR]

In a message dated 8/2/02 11:00:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
gho...@regulatory-compliance.com writes:

<< They are arguably under obligation if they are using the NFPA-70 NEC as
 law.(assuming that they are considering it has been adopted and enforced in
 50 states). Which actually calls out the procedure for what will be deemed
 as "approved", which makes reference to listing, labeling, or certification
 by an NRTL as one route (not the only route). >>

My understanding is that the federal law (NFPA Code) is the minimum 
requirement and that state and local authorities can and do apply additional 
requirements as they deem appropriate.  

I agree that the best course of action if an NRTL mark is rejected is to 
petition the NRTL itself to negotiate with the AHJ.  I think most NRTL's 
would be pretty responsive.  

Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Garry Hojan]

Group,

The "you" in my last post was meant as "any manufacturer" it was not a
direct question... just in case someone thought I would ask such a question
in an open forum such as this...

Best regards,
Garry Hojan
CEO/ President
Strategic Compliance Services (SCS)
a Division of NRL, L.L.C.
11402 E Mariposa Rd.
Stockton, CA 95215
Tel:209-465-0619
Fax:209-812-1931
Mobile: 209-662-4322
Email:  gho...@regulatory-compliance.com
Web:www.regulatory-compliance.com



-Original Message-
From:   owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Constantin
Bolintineanu
Sent:   Friday, August 02, 2002 8:22 AM
To: 'gho...@regulatory-compliance.com'; 'Peter Merguerian';
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:RE: Marking Languages for Canada


To a such a REPLY, . NO COMMENTS...

Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020

-Original Message-
From: Garry Hojan [mailto:gho...@regulatory-compliance.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:13 AM
To: Constantin Bolintineanu; 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


Constantine my friend,

I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC
accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step
back a second

Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride
on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue
over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the
transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a
case that he didn't know because it was't in his language?

Regards,
Garry
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin
Bolintineanu
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM
To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


Dear Peter,

In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse
some of our colleagues.

The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED
POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the
CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA.

In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN
Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91.

In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223)
specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the
WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING
LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French.

There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required
- depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application.

These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see
Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...),
and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER
SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA.
I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when
required) shall be in English AND French.
Respectfully yours,
Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020

-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM
To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


Carpentier,

UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.

I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its'
label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.

Regards,
This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com



-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org

Re: Marking Languages for Canada

[SOUNDSURFR]

Gary McInturff wrote:  

I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always 
followed up, and II think is  somewhat vague about it, intentionally I 
imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries 
the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or 
if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the 
export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), 
Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those 
countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same 
clauses and they are no more illuminating.
 
 
1.7.12 Language
Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language 
which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. 
<<<

This is pretty much on the mark.  I was a manager at UL when this issue was 
put forth to the chief engineer's office.  It was recognized that the 
standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the 
appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service 
procedures specifically included  that requirement.  However, it was also 
understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know where 
the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS 
inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and determine 
its compliance with the standard.  Therefore, the decision was to have the 
inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the 
burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the 
manufacturer.  


Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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RE: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[Peter Merguerian]

Charles,
 
See my answers below in body of your message.
 

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN

Technical Director

I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.

26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211

Or Yehuda 60251, Israel

Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019

Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175

http://www.itl.co.il  

http://www.i-spec.com  



-Original Message-
From: Charles Blackham [mailto:cblac...@airspan.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 3:15 PM
To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
Subject: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California



I'd be grateful if someone could confirm or deny the following- 

Is UL Approval mandatory in California for IT/telecoms equipment?  

Peter: Any NRTL is acceptable. See OSHA site for acceptable NRTLs and their
scope of accreditations. 

I accept that I NRTL safety approval is required, but can the local AHJ
specify which NRTL is acceptable?  

Peter: Yes, the local AHJ can specify which NRTL would be acceptable to
them. If you have a specific NRTL in mind, ask them for their accreditations
in the various states and cities. Some, like the City of Los Angeles, will
specify the NRTL and categories acceptable to them; others will accept any
NRTL - scope per OSHA accreditation.  

regards 
Charlie Blackham 
Senior Approvals Engineer 
Airspan Commmunications Ltd 

RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Price, Ed]

Forgive me if this is a bit off-topic, but most Americans forget that
everything north of Maine is not Canada. Although it's a small market, the
territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon is a department of France. Thus, we
have a little (very French) piece of the EU on our side of the Atlantic.
 
Ed
 

Ed Price 
ed.pr...@cubic.com 
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab 
Cubic Defense Systems 
San Diego, CA  USA 
858-505-2780  (Voice) 
858-505-1583  (Fax) 
Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty 
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis 

 

RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Constantin Bolintineanu]

To a such a REPLY, . NO COMMENTS...

Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020

-Original Message-
From: Garry Hojan [mailto:gho...@regulatory-compliance.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:13 AM
To: Constantin Bolintineanu; 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


Constantine my friend,
 
I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC
accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step
back a second
 
Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride
on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue
over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the
transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a
case that he didn't know because it was't in his language?
 
Regards,
Garry
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin
Bolintineanu
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM
To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada 


Dear Peter,
 
In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse
some of our colleagues.
 
The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED
POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the
CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA. 
 
In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN
Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91.
 
In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223)
specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the
WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING
LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French.
 
There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required
- depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application. 
 
These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see
Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...),
and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER
SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA. 
I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when
required) shall be in English AND French.
Respectfully yours,
Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020

-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM
To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada 


Carpentier,

UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.
 
I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its'
label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.
 
Regards,
This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com



-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada 


Hello group,
 
A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power
supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the
product is sold in Canada?
If YES,  is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if
there is an approval for US+Canada?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier

---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.

Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/e

RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Garry Hojan]

Constantine my friend,

I would have to agree with you on this one. Also, just because the SCC
accredited entity decides that their policy is to not enforce this, step
back a second

Do you want to open yourself up to the liability (which will ultimately ride
on the manufacturer's shoulders - I am currently debating with a collegue
over this single point) of some sue happy French speaking person to take the
transformer out into his sprinkler and use the improper labeling to make a
case that he didn't know because it was't in his language?

Regards,
Garry
-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Constantin
Bolintineanu
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 6:06 AM
To: 'Peter Merguerian'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


Dear Peter,

In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse
some of our colleagues.

The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED
POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the
CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA.

In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN
Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91.

In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223)
specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the
WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING
LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French.

There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be
equired  - depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application.

These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see
Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...),
and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER
SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA.
I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when
required) shall be in English AND French.
Respectfully yours,
Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020


  -Original Message-
  From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
  Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM
  To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
  Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada


  Carpentier,

  UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.

  I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on
its' label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.

  Regards,
  This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.







  PETER S. MERGUERIAN

  Technical Director

  I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.

  26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211

  Or Yehuda 60251, Israel

  Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019

  Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175

  http://www.itl.co.il

  http://www.i-spec.com




-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada


Hello group,

A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power
supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the
product is sold in Canada?
If YES,  is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if
there is an approval for US+Canada?

Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier

RE: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[Garry Hojan]

They are arguably under obligation if they are using the NFPA-70 NEC as
law.(assuming that they are considering it has been adopted and enforced in
50 states). Which actually calls out the procedure for what will be deemed
as "approved", which makes reference to listing, labeling, or certification
by an NRTL as one route (not the only route).

The AHJ can do whatever they want, but you should be able to go back to
whomever listed your product and let them argue with the AHJ on your behalf.

A long time ago this was a common problem with lesser known NRTL marks.

Best regards,
Garry Hojan
CEO/ President
Strategic Compliance Services (SCS)
a Division of NRL, L.L.C.
11402 E Mariposa Rd.
Stockton, CA 95215
Tel:209-465-0619
Fax:209-812-1931
Mobile: 209-662-4322
Email:  gho...@regulatory-compliance.com
Web:www.regulatory-compliance.com



-Original Message-
From:   owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of soundsu...@aol.com
Sent:   Friday, August 02, 2002 6:48 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:RE: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California


The local AHJ can do whatever it wants.

NRTL is an OSHA designation which applies only to the workplace.  Local
installation code inspection authorities are under no obligation to
recognize
an NRTL.  They don't have to accept UL either.



Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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---
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Shielded Enclosure

[Pittman, Bud]

If policy permits, please post the address for an Ebay auction of a shielded
enclosure.  This has been in use here at LSI for many years and is no longer
needed.  It is being sold by an individual(not me).  For details you may
contact Larry Hastings at 316-636-8260.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1754833538&rd=1
 

Bud Pittman
Compliance Engineer
LSI Logic Storage Systems, Inc. - Wichita KS
bud.pitt...@lsil.com
Tel 316-636-8718
Fax 316-636-8321

RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Gary McInturff]

UL60950 third addition (bi-national standard CSA950/UL 60950) (I'm working out 
of an older standard)
 
I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always followed 
up, and II think is  somewhat vague about it, intentionally I imagine. To be 
very specific about it one would have to know what countries the equipment will 
be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or if they do initially 
that is subject to change. If you can't control the export then do you require 
warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, 
(which dialect). ad nausium. How about those countries where UL 60950 has no 
real standing. I think EN60950 has the same clauses and they are no more 
illuminating.
 
 
1.7.12 Language
Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language 
which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. 
(Depending on  who you ask in Canada you will get a different definition of 
acceptable language. I believe in some parts even the order of the languages 
and the relative size of the wording between languages can be problematic - but 
that comes more from watching news programs that experience.)
 
Note 1 documentation intended for use only by service personnel is permitted to 
be in the English language only.
Note 2 - In Germany, safety related information also for service personnel has 
to be in the German Language (the amendments spell this out more clearly - Gary)
 
I have always been a little confused by note 1, most often they are the ones to 
whom the warning information is the most important. Seems they should be able 
to read it.
 
Table NAA.1 identifies some possible markings that could appear on the power 
supply such as 1.7.6 which discusses fuse replacement in user serviceable 
locations. 
 
This table  provides and interesting note in 3.6, which depending on your 
interpretation applies to only paragraph 3.6 or to any warnings. 
 
Alternately, the wording can be replaced by the ! (in a triangle) symbol on the 
product if the specified wording appears in the installation instructions. 
 
So much for word from Spokane, Washington.
Gary
 

-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 2:24 AM
To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada 


Carpentier,
 
UL does not require that language be in French and English for units carrying 
the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling and Packaging 
Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I suggest you get a copy 
and adhere to the rules.
 
I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its' 
label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning marking 
on it.
 
Regards,

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you 
are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, 
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you 
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message 
and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN

Technical Director

I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.

26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211

Or Yehuda 60251, Israel

Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019

Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175

http://www.itl.co.il  

http://www.i-spec.com  



-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada 


Hello group,
 
A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply 
from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL 
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the 
product is sold in Canada?
If YES,  is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there 
is an approval for US+Canada?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier

RE: NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[SOUNDSURFR]

The local AHJ can do whatever it wants.  

NRTL is an OSHA designation which applies only to the workplace.  Local 
installation code inspection authorities are under no obligation to recognize 
an NRTL.  They don't have to accept UL either.  


 
Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

---
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 majord...@ieee.org
with the single line:
 unsubscribe emc-pstc

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 Ron Pickard:  emc-p...@hypercom.com
 Dave Heald:   davehe...@attbi.com

For policy questions, send mail to:
 Richard Nute:   ri...@ieee.org
 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/
Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"

Re: medical-grade transformers

[Rich Nute]

Hi Ged:


>   "In transformers with REINFORCED INSULATION or DOUBLE INSULATION the
>   insulation between 1ary and 2ary windings shalll consist of -
>   -  1 insulation layer having thickness at least 1mm, or
>   -  at least 2 insulation layers with total thickness not less than 0.3mm, or
>   -  3 layers provided each combination of 2 layers can withstand the
>   dielectric strenght test for REINFORCED INSULATION"
>   
>   Can anyone explain ther rationale behind these requirements ?

Thin insulation is presumed to be subject to 
pin-holes.

If 1 layer of insulation, then the insulation
must be "thick" rather than "thin," hence 1 mm 
thickness.  We presume no pin-holes in "thick"
insulation, and the insulation comprises
reinforced insulation.

If 2 layers of thin insulation, then presume
a pin-hole in one layer, and that the pin-hole
will not overlay a pin-hole in the other layer.  
If that pin-hole is 0.15 mm, then we know that 
the air in that pin-hole will at least withstand 
the mains voltage.  Therefore, the construction
still has two insulations in series, one being
the 0.15 mm air of the pin-hole, the other being 
the 0.15 mm thick solid insulation.  The 2 
insulations in series comprise double insulation.

If 3 layers of thin insulation, then presume 
a pin-hole in one layer, and that the pin-hole
will not ovelay a pin-hole in the adjacent
layer.  The remaining 2 layers comprise double 
insulation.  

(In IEC 60960, the requirement for 1 layer in
a 2-layer system is 0.4 mm thickness.)


Best regards,
Rich


ps:  I'm not certain of my explanation for 2
 layers.  This rationale came from 60950,
 and I have applied it to 60601.





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NRTL/UL Safety Approval in California

[Charles Blackham]

I'd be grateful if someone could confirm or deny the following-

Is UL Approval mandatory in California for IT/telecoms equipment?

I accept that I NRTL safety approval is required, but can the local AHJ
specify which NRTL is acceptable?

regards
Charlie Blackham
Senior Approvals Engineer
Airspan Commmunications Ltd

RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Constantin Bolintineanu]

Dear Peter,
 
In my opinion, your statement is not 100% accurate and thus, it may confuse
some of our colleagues.
 
The subject is MARKING related to WARNINGS when we are discussing CERTIFIED
POWER SUPPLIES (Direct Plug-In for Canada), and thus, we shall consider the
CERTIFICATION requirements for CANADA. 
 
In this particular situation described by Kris, the applicable CANADIAN
Standard is CAN CSA C22.2. No.223-M91.
 
In regard to the required MARKING (label) the above mentioned Standard (223)
specifies that: the WARNING(S) (if are required by different Clauses) the
WARNING(S) [ONLY the TEXT OF THE WARNINGS !], MUST APPEAR ON the MARKING
LABEL IN both LANGUAGES, in English AND French.
 
There are 3(three) possible WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) which may be required
- depending of the environment, wiring, and field of application. 
 
These WARNINGS (AVERTISSEMENTS) shall appear ONLY IF ARE REQUIRED (e.g.: see
Clause 4.13.3 which makes references to the MARKING Clause 5.2., etc...),
and thus I assume that you did not see those on a DIRECT PLUG-IN POWER
SUPPLY CERTIFIED FOR CANADA. 
I hope it helps to better understand why the WARNINGS TEXT ONLY (when
required) shall be in English AND French.

Respectfully yours,
Constantin

Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng.
DIGITAL SECURITY CONTROLS LTD.
3301 LANGSTAFF Road, L4K 4L2
CONCORD, ONTARIO, CANADA
e-mail: cbolintine...@dsc.com
Telephone: 905 760 3000 ext 2568
Fax: 905 760 3020


-Original Message-
From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 5:24 AM
To: 'Carpentier Kristiaan'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: Marking Languages for Canada 


Carpentier,
 
UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.
 
I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its'
label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.
 
Regards,

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN

Technical Director

I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.

26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211

Or Yehuda 60251, Israel

Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019

Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175

http://www.itl.co.il  

http://www.i-spec.com  



-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada 


Hello group,
 
A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power
supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the
product is sold in Canada?
If YES,  is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if
there is an approval for US+Canada?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier

Re: Packaging for Czech Republic - Ecological Law 477/2001

[david.graham]

Hi Lyle,
As an EU accession state I expect that 477/2001 is the Czech transposition
of the EU directive on packaging and packaging waste (94/62/EC). The only
harmonised standards listed under 94/62 are EN's 13428 and 13432.
Regards,

Dave Graham.

- Original Message -
From: Luttrell, Lyle 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: Packaging for Czech Republic - Ecological Law 477/2001


>
> Hello group,
> I just received an inquiry regarding compliance with a new ecological law
#
> 477/2001 in the Czech Republic concerning packaging of goods.
> Apparently the law sets requirements on design and marking of packaging
and
> preparation of a declaration and other reporting requirements.
> The standards are listed below; they are not ones that I am familiar with.
> The products we are selling are ITE (tape automation systems).
>
> Does anyone have experience with this yet? Any idea of what the effective
> date is?
>
> Extract from inquiry:
> We are obliged to sign a declaration stating that the packaging is
complying
> or not with the law in general and with each of the standards, describing
> the contents of the packaging and stating that we have all the technical
> documents of the packaging and we are able to show them to the control
> authority.
>  We need a separate declaration for every group of packaging that would
> describe used material of packaging and state whether the packaging is
> compliant to each of the standards or not.
> We have been informed that the standards and declaration should be similar
> to the European standards. The declaration form should be the appendix B
of
> the standard EN 13427.
> Standards to meet are:
> 1. EN 13428. EN 13427
> 2. EN 13429
> 3. EN 13430
> 4. EN 13431
> 5. EN 13432, EN 13428
> 6. EN 13428, EN 13695-2
> 7. EN 13695-1
> We have the obligation of record keeping and the obligation to get back
the
> packaging from the end customer for free. One way to cover this duty is to
> contract a company newly authorized by the law whom we pay for their
> services. To get registered and serviced we have to report the amount of
> sold packaging in tons sorted by the used material. The registration is
> necessary for customs officers.
>
>
> Lyle Luttrell, PE
> Quality/Reliability/Compliance Engineer
> PeAk Storage Solutions, a Division of MaxOptix
> 246 South Taylor Avenue
> Louisville, CO 80027
> Phone:  303-664-8286
> Fax:  303-664-8299
>
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
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Re: In-Vitro Diagnostic Equipment

[mm]

> Greetings,
> We currently manufacture and market a product as laboratory equipment not
> intended for diagnostic purposes.  This product has been evaluated to EN
> 61010-1, EN 61326, CSA  1010.1 and UL 3101-1.
> 
> We are considering marketing this product as an "In-vitro diagnostic"
> device.  Do we need to re-evaluate this product to a different set of
> standards?  If so, which Directives/standards are applicable.
> 

Hi Joe,
I think these are what you're looking for:

Directive:
Directive 98/79/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 27 October
1998 on in vitro diagnostic medical devices

Standard:  
prEN 61010-2-101:2001  (IEC 61010-2-101:2002)
Safety requirements for electrical equipment for measurement, control, and 
laboratory use -- Part 2-101: Particular requirements for in vitro diagnostic 
(IVD) medical equipment

Matt

To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org


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RE: Marking Languages for Canada

[Peter Merguerian]

Carpentier,
 
UL does not require that language be in French and English for units
carrying the the cULus Listing Mark. However, there are national Labeling
and Packaging Regulations in Canada which you must comply with, and I
suggest you get a copy and adhere to the rules.
 
I am just curious what warning marking the plug-in power supply had on its'
label. I have never seen a plug-in power supply with a special warning
marking on it.
 
Regards,

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.






PETER S. MERGUERIAN

Technical Director

I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.

26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211

Or Yehuda 60251, Israel

Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019

Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175

http://www.itl.co.il  

http://www.i-spec.com  



-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 11:37 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Marking Languages for Canada 


Hello group,
 
A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power
supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada.
Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL
marking with C and US.
The warning marking on the power supply is only in english.
Question:
Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the
product is sold in Canada?
If YES,  is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if
there is an approval for US+Canada?
 
Thanks for your answers.
Kris Carpentier

RE: In-Vitro Diagnostic Equipment

[Peter Merguerian]

Joe,

The standards you mention are not part of the applicable Medical Device
Directive (MDD)- General (93/42/EEC) and In Vitro Diagnostic (98/79/EEC)

See attached links for standards applicable under these MDD Directives. 

http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/re
flist/meddevic.html

http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/re
flist/invimedd.html

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate,
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the
message and its attachments to the sender.


PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175
http://www.itl.co.il
http://www.i-spec.com





-Original Message-
From: Joe P Martin [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com]
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:04 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: In-Vitro Diagnostic Equipment



Greetings,

We currently manufacture and market a product as laboratory equipment not
intended for diagnostic purposes.  This product has been evaluated to EN
61010-1, EN 61326, CSA  1010.1 and UL 3101-1.

We are considering marketing this product as an "In-vitro diagnostic"
device.  Do we need to re-evaluate this product to a different set of
standards?  If so, which Directives/standards are applicable.

All responses are greatly appreciated.

Regards

Joe Martin
Applied Biosystems
marti...@appliedbiosystems.com


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Re: Marking Languages for Canada

[SOUNDSURFR]

If the product is being marketed in the US and Canada, then the markings 
should be in both French and English.  There are actually only two Provinces 
in Canada that require the markings to be in French, but why bother with such 
distinction?  UL made a decision some time ago that the enforcement of this 
would not be part of the UL investigation, and would instead be the 
responsibility of the manufacturer.

Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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Re: Tantalum Capacitor Reliability

[Ron Pickard]

To all,

This discussion has so far pointed to voltage and ripple current as being the 
main causes for
tantalum capacitor mortality. There is, however, another feature of these caps 
that so far has not
been discussed. That is one of temperature, soldering temperature to be exact. 
We have learned over
the last few months that tantalum caps, when subjected to high temperatures 
(soldering, especially
hand soldering), tend to change internally on a physical basis. A few capacitor 
manufacturers have
verified this. After soldering, when a voltage is applied across the tantalum 
cap, the tantalum cap
tries to self-heal itself. In doing so, the tantalum cap appears to re-rate its 
voltage rating to
the applied voltage. The cause of the self-healing appears to be a function of 
the soldering
temperature and the length of time that the temperature is applied. This is 
greatly egaserbated
(sp?) when a soldering iron actually touches a terminal on the tantalum cap. 
For example and after
very hot soldering, a 15V rated tantalum cap could conceivably be re-rated to 
about 5V if 5V is
applied. We learned this the hard way.

We are now actively looking for a suitable alternative to the tantalum cap 
application (buck filter
needing low ESR).

I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Best regards,

Ron Pickard
rpick...@hypercom.com





  
  emcconsult...@yahoo.co
  
  m To:   
72146@compuserve.com, chris.maxw...@nettest.com, emc-p...@ieee.org  
  Sent by:  cc: 
  
  owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject:  Re: Tantalum 
Capacitor Reliability  
  mo.ieee.org   
  

  

  
  07/29/02 01:35 PM 
  
  Please respond to 
  
  emcconsultant 
  

  

  





Nonetheless, inrush current aside, a 20V Tantalum is considered marginal for a 
12V
circuit if reliability is desired. A 60% derating factor was and is a typical 
max
for reliability circuits, i.e a 30V min rated cap is recommended. Tantalums 
require
additional derating than Al-electrolytics. Furthermore, switchers are notorious 
for
destroying Tantalums due to the large and fast V-swings. I don't recall seeing 
too
many Tantalums on switcher designs.

--- Cortland Richmond <72146@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> The issue isn't voltage rating; low-ESR caps such as these are susceptible
> to excessive charging current at turn-on.  At a former employer, we saw
> REALLY GOOD, expensive caps used on a computer's 5V bus exploding at
> turn-on, even ones rated at 50 volts. Replacing them with cheaper
> electrolytics (TEN volts!) took care of that.  You might be able to
> alleviate turn-on stress by using a power-on monitor circuit to slow down
> the initial charge. But it'd be far cheaper to go to electrolytics.
>
>
> Cortland
>
>
> >> One of my colleagues is testing a new design.  He has designed
> >> a buck-boost switching converter which has tantalum output capacitors.
> >> We have looked at his design and gone through the calculations.
> >> His output current is 4 A maximum.  His output voltage is 12 VDC  His
> >> caclulated ripple current is 800 mA.  He needed a 120 mV ripple voltage,
> >> so he put 8 each of 68 uF, 20 V tantalum capacitors (with 150 mOhm ESR)
> >> in parallel on the output.   Each cap is rated for approximately 800mA
> of
> >> ripple current.
> >>
> >> He has seen two failures of these capacitors during initial testing and
> >> demonstrations.  Meanwhile, many initial units run fine.   From what I
> can
> >> gather, he hasn't violated any design rules.  He has 20V rated cap