[PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer summary
PSNet Thanx to all who chimed in on this matter. The referencese to 60335-13 and -37 were of interest but not directly applicable for this machine. From our perspective this is a machine and comes under the MD. This includes the fryer itself as well as the conveyororized I/O feed equipment. Yes, we will look at some of the specialized requirements above to ensure that we aren't overlooking anything important. This is also helpful from our American point of view since we will use NFPA 79 (which is harmonized with 60204) with our electricians here (which they will find more understandable). Bringing that into 60204 is a simple step, from our experience. This also led to a long set of responses regarding legalities which are always of interest - even if not the key perspective for which we were looking. We will mull more of this over later this week on our US National Turkey Holiday, Thanksgiving. (Oh yes, American Football, too. What a wonderful day.) Thanx again for your collective insight. :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Regulatory Consultant Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
William Shatner and State Farm have teamed up for a turkey fryer video. It's more entertaining than the UL version. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYkRF_FmD40 Patty Knudsen Teradata Corporation PH: 858-485-3748 patricia.knud...@teradata.com -Original Message- From: dougp01 [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Ralph, no real argument to the benefit except especially the safety folks won't even go into court as an expert witness on your behalf. But the benefit of the third party is more in how deep they get into your wallet. is the reasonable manufacturer doctrine in Tort law. It's just what it sounds like. Did you meet the minimums of what a reasonable manufacturer would do? E.g. Did you seek a second opinion about the safety or the product? If it is common in the industry to do so and you don't bother then you don't' meet the doctrine and the monetary damages are going to escalate dramatically because you've shown a disregard for you customers safety. - This is all paraphrased and cut down from a seminar on Tort law as it applies to safety many years ago. So the value is a ha' penny versus a pound sterling. From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:51 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable. The is little or no benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/14/2011 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer In message 4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com writes: I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because the person concerned can't read English. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51 I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable. The is little or no benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law. The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual responsibility or lack thereof. If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Yup, it's the theory of deep pockets but there still has to be proximal cost for them to drag anybody into the fray UL didn't design it, they didn't sell it, and they didn't tell anybody it was safe - only that it meets the standards for safety that exist at the time of review. I suppose it was a very strong implication though. I've been involved in exactly one case. A monitor in a bank caught fire, the insurance company came after us, and even after showing UL review, proper plastics (at least as far as the current state of product safety was concerned) and pointing out that the fire was caused by an employee who lit a candle near the monitor and forgot to blow it out before she left for the night and was the actual source of the fire our insurance company paid up. Cheaper to pay than to litigate I suppose. But neither then nor any time since then during product recalls or safety accidents, to the best of my knowledge, UL nor any other 3rd party evaluator was every made party to the lawsuit. (I remember a Listed Coffee pot that caught fire and Listed laptops with Li Batteries were bursting in flames and cause injuries for example) Not a lawyer by either trade nor inclination -Original Message- From: John Shinn [mailto:jmsh...@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Peter is correct. The Lawyers will usually list everyone remotely associated with the product, including the retailer who sold it. John Shinn -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51 I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable. The is little or no benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law. The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual responsibility or lack thereof. If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net
[PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Hi Pete, By commercial, do you mean for use in a restaurant or retail (take away) environment or in a food factory? Is it gas heated or electric? Any powered moving parts? Nick. On 14 Nov 2011, at 21:00, Pete Perkins wrote: PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:15 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: CE marking of deep-fat fryer In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas fired or food factory type equipment. Nick. On 14 Nov 2011, at 22:14, John Woodgate wrote: In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. -- - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point. If UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the potential customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have every right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600 To: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com Cc: Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf ety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
That is a wonderful bit of propaganda put out by UL to justify their decision to categorically refuse to NRTL list turkey fryers as being intrinsically unsafe/ unable to be used safely by the general public. And yet one easily finds them on the shelves of Wal-Mart, Target, etc. (with no UL mark, of course) this time of year. Of course, you also read of a large number of fires/ injuries resulting from the use of turkey fryers this time of year as well so UL might have a valid point... I particularly like the UL employee lowering the frozen turkey with tongs into a full vat of boiling oil while wearing what appears to be a full fire-fighting suit including breathing apparatus. It's just so wonderfully over-the-top. I also enjoy the image of dramatically tipping over the boiling oil towards the camera. Visions of the Middle Ages sure to appeal to our European friends! It's kind of old now (it came out in 2003 or 2004) but UL was seemed quite pleased with it and featured it prominently on their homepage at the time if I recall correctly. John P. Farley -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of dougp01 Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:13 PM To: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer itself. Instead, the problems are due to the behavior of the user. As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be (and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior shortcomings. Rich -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM To: dougp01 Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons umer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
No, I think UL has a point here. As you can see from the Video that Turkey fryer is Gas fired, so there is always a ingnition source present. As far as I recall Deep Fat Fryers for home use in Europe: - are electrically heated, with the heat source inside and protected by an outside enclosure that is below 50 deg (i.e. can be touched by the user) it will cool spilled oil instead of igniting it. - all models I recall to have seen are smaller. The food to be fried it to be put into a cage with a handle, and can at maximum hold a small chicken. - The deep-fat fryer shown in the UL video really seems to be too cheaply built. Such deep-fat fryers should always be intended for commercial use only, so a slightly higher price should be acceptable - There must be a better protection against tilting over - There must be a provision that spilled oil does not reach the bottom part of the outside of the fryer, but is instead collected in a ring attached to the upper part of the outside Rgds Rene Charton Derek Walton lfresearch@aol.c omTo Sent by: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com emc-p...@ieee.org cc Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 11/15/2011 07:04 Subject AMRe: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
I disagree. Some devices like lawn-mowers, table-saws, snow-blowers and chainsaws are inherently dangerous by necessity, because of their intended function. I don't know how (or whether) one needs to design a lawn-mower or a chainsaw to be idiot proof. When used properly with due care and in accordance with its operation instructions, these devices are in fact quite safe. Clearly some devices are truly not intended for use by anyone. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/14/2011 03:20 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer itself. Instead, the problems are due to the behavior of the user. As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be (and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior shortcomings. Rich -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM To: dougp01 Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons umer/productsafety/turkeys/ doug powell - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
Agreed Ken. In fact, I'm not at all convinced that products in the USA or Canada require 3rd party safety blessing from an agency. The new approach directive in the EU for product safety appears to work perfectly well without any agency involvement. I'd like to see that approach adopted here, but alas with all the litigation on this side of the pond, it will likely never happen. On the other hand, CSA and UL do employ a lot of good people. _ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/14/2011 03:23 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point. If UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the potential customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have every right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600 To: dougp01 doug...@gmail.com Cc: Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer Hi Doug, I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Cheers, Derek. On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote: Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video. http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf ety/turkeys/ doug powell -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer PSNet, Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message 4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com writes: I guess I find this nonsense. ANYTHING abused looks dangerous. More examples of Nanny state control. Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because the person concerned can't read English. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be1b1...@tk5ex14mbxc301.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special standard for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying with the LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety assessment document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your particular product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an opinion from a Notified Body. A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically become unsafe if it's moved into a plant. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message eca7cebe-86a4-4fe8-942b-a4cecc5f6...@conformance.co.uk, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Nick Williams nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk writes: 60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas fired or food factory type equipment. That's peculiar: I thought that such a standard existed but a search of the IEC SC61E web site didn't show it. I think I know why: the page I asked for didn't appear, but one that resembled it did. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message nyjtypaolzwof...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: In message AB6009628A08455FAACB848DCB89BA9E@Pete97219Compaq, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes: Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer. What's the latest? IEC 60335-2-13 Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14) Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances. CORRECTION IEC 60335-2-37 applies. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
In message eb8hcucbwgwof...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, dated Tue, 15 Nov 2011, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be1b1...@tk5ex14mbxc301.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard. Its scope includes the following text. Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and similar use only. This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but not food processing plants. Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special standard for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying with the LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety assessment document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your particular product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an opinion from a Notified Body. CORRECTION: IEC 60335-2-37 applies A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically become unsafe if it's moved into a plant. This is still true. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
