Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[Lester Caine]

On 20/09/15 04:58, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> Ah, you're building on Gentoo, I didn't realize that.  We do not
> currently have instructions for how to build on Gentoo, unfortunately.
> LinuxCNC currently targets/supports Debian and Debian-derived
> distributions like Ubuntu.  There have been some efforts to develop the
> Gentoo build documentation, but as far as I know they have not produced
> any results yet.  If you get your Gentoo build to work, I'd welcome an
> ebuild file and/or documentation.
> 
> You're right that src/configure is supposed to identify missing build
> dependencies.  If it fails at that job, that's a bug, and we'd love a patch.
> 
> debian/configure and dpkg-checkbuilddeps are Debian-specific tools that
> do a similar but different job - they tell you, in a programmatic way,
> which debian packages are missing and need to be installed in order to
> build.

It is nowadays irritating that distributions made their own decisions on
'improvements' in the past. So Linux has a well deserved reputation for
being 'painful to work with'. I've worked with SUSE Linux for so many
years now that when I've come across sites using something else those
little differences cause hours of head scratching on things 'that should
just work'. Add in problems like Python2 vs Python3 and even 64bit vs
32bit and it does become something of a nightmare? :(

A debate on 'cross platform' working should perhaps start with 'cross
distribution' working. I've just finished upgrading the 'old'
development machine from SUSE13.1 to SUSE 'Tumbleweed' since many of the
nice new tools like FreeCAD and KiCAD will not load current versions on
even SUSE13.2, remaining with older versions with known bugs. Start
throwing complete new processor families into the mix such as the
various ARM variants and its a wonder anything ever works?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] When the boss is away...

[Mark Wendt]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Marcus Bowman
 wrote:
>
> On 19 Sep 2015, at 14:05, Mark Wendt wrote:
>
>> Wonder how they came up with the G Code for this?
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/1517958995098128/videos/1767629363464422/?fref=nf
>>
>
> Would we call that a very "pop"ular application?
>
> Marcus
>
>> --

Marcus,

Dunno about your shop, but it would be *very* "pop"ular in my shop.  ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:49 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> Ultimately remoting into the BBB still means learning two operating systems
> when 99.9% of my work is done under Windows.
>
> To drag a drop a file onto the desktop on the Debian BBB MachineKit port
> involves dragging it to the desktop folder and then using the ever present
> and needed text editor to edit the shortcut to make it work properly with
> the correct icon.
>
> In windows you drag it onto the desktop.  Period.  If you want to change
> parameters right click and change stuff in a dialog.  No command line
> needed.
>
> So if LinuxCNC is to be used in windows getting rid of the "Linux Guru
> required"  option is  a major feature.
>
> John

Are you talking about a regular file, or an executable?  Either way,
you can right-click on an icon and adjust the properties there, and
make the file executable if you wish, which has been available since
at least 10.04 LTS..  All done through the GUI.  On my Ubuntu machines
at home and work, I can drag and drop, or cut and paste.  Maybe that's
a legacy of the version of Debian being used in the MachineKit port?


Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[Jim Craig]

The third video in the touch probe series is now available on YouTube. 
If you have any questions about the touch probe that I have not answered 
in the videos let me know and I will address them. If I have enough 
additional questions then I can make a fourth video answering them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S9f0Nkoh8U

Looks like there is decent response to the channel already so I will 
keep working on new episodes. Next ones will be on the basics of LinuxCNC.

I have not heard any feedback about the logo so I assume that it is OK 
to keep using it. Please let me know if I am stepping on toes here.

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] [emc-users] Building from source

[Jeff Epler]

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 03:40:39AM +, Evan Foss wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Jeff Epler  wrote:
> > It looks like you're missing some python-related packages, namely the
> > one that provides pyconfig.h and the one that provides _tkinter.so.
> 
> Yes I got that far. Why does the compile bomb when I try to build with
> out python?

As far as I'm aware, python and boost-python development headers are
currently required to build linuxcnc.  Once again, I'll review patches
with the goal of making these items optional (in fact I'd personally
like boost-python to be optional, because the way it is used in the
interpreter to support the "remapping" feature I don't use adds a lot of
compile time)

Jeff

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[Emc-users] Spindle speed disparity problem

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings;

I have an apparent nominally 30% difference between the requested speed 
from the spindle's pid, and whats coming back from the encoder.

Background:

I have a limit3, named rvsaccel, between motion's speed-rps output pin 
and the pid.s.command pin useing it as a maxaccel limiter.

I have some hal stuff that feeds a small tickle value into the bias pin 
of that pid, equ to about 20 rpm but dependent on the sign of the signal 
from motion.  Trimmable in the .ini file as FBIAS and RBIAS.

Everything thru the pid is unity gain, but some more hal stuff also sets 
the pid.s.maxoutout to 0.98 of whatever the 5i25's pwmgen.scale is set 
to. pwmgen scale currently in the 28 range based on the top speed of 
about 2800 when the drive is wide open.  That way, a click on the plus 
or minus button is supposed to be 100 revs a click

The encoder disk has 67 slots, one of which is longer and is the index, 
so the encoder scale is 67x4=268.

But an MDI command of s1000m3, returns just under 20 rps average at the 
encoder.0.velocity output, not the 16.67 that came out of the pid.

Sure, I can bring up the pid.Igain which will forcibly correct it but its 
way too slow to do it, so an m3-m4, or vice versa reversal results in a 
huge overshoot in the opposite direction before it can settle at nearly 
the correct speed again, as in if turning about 1005 revs fwd, an m4 
will cause it to run up to about 1600 revs before it settles to around 
1005 in reverse.  By slowing down the rate of reverse with the limit3, I 
can make it take 10 seconds to do the reversal, but the magnitude, 
60-65% of this overshoot does not change!  Its just done in very slow 
motion.  The amount of Igain to achieve this is above unity, up to 5.0 
before instability sets in.  The spindle speed is then VERY stiffly 
maintained, perhaps more than needed so I use 2.0 to 3.5 there.

Smaller versions of the overshoot are seen in just changing the speed 
with an s command, from 1000 to 100 actually results in a very momentary 
stop, then resumes at the new speed, or from 100 to 1000 will shoot up 
to 1500 or so before it settles.  True in both directions, so its 
symmetrical.  And it is not affected by bypassing my cobbled up encoder 
noise filter whose worst case latency to a new valid output is 4 
servo-threads=4 milliseconds, but it also reduces the noise to 25% of 
what comes out of the encoder.

So, is there a method to reset the pid's Igain to zero, or even perhaps 
to change its sign, at least until a near module has indicated its just 
reached the correct speed?

OR a way to reset the scale of the pwmgen that will not restrict its 
range, but which will match the requested to the result.

This latter could be done with a mux2 switching the gain of a scale 
module between the pid.output and the pwmgen.value in, switching the 
mux2 from one preset value to the other according to a tally switch on 
the high/n/low knob.  This would require additional hal stuff to reset 
the pid.s.maxoutput accordingly, getting even more complex and hard to 
trace, and additional inputs to be configured and built. Not impossible 
of course, but a PIMB* to do.

This effect is seen regardless of the pwmgen "scale" multiplier used as 
that avenue has been explored without seeing a trend toward correctness.
Maybe I am missing something so obvious its not been considered?

Suggestions please & thanks everybody.

*PIMB, pain in my back, the disk collapse seems to be proceeding, 
pinching nerves ever tighter.  And that would require I go back to my 
skyhook & deer hoist to get the driver box off the high shelf above the 
operating computer.

And the only place it might be a real problem is in doing some rigid 
tapping at high enough revs that the table or head could not keep up at 
the instant of the overshoot during the reversal at the end point set.
It was not a problem with the head in low gear at 300 revs while doing 
some rigid tapping, driving a 10-24 tap last week. IOW I didn't break 
the tap. ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[rayj]

Jim,

I'm looking forward the learning from the channel.

I'm not tangled up with the Google monster, so I can't subscribe.

I was wondering if you are going to do an RSS feed, I think they call 
it, or if you'll publish notification when a new one comes out here on 
the list.  Don't want to add to your workload.  I'll just check in once 
in a while to see if there is a new one.

Like I said, I'm looking forward to having it as a resource.

Thanks for making the effort to help me and others!

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 09/20/2015 08:03 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> The third video in the touch probe series is now available on YouTube.
> If you have any questions about the touch probe that I have not answered
> in the videos let me know and I will address them. If I have enough
> additional questions then I can make a fourth video answering them.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S9f0Nkoh8U
>
> Looks like there is decent response to the channel already so I will
> keep working on new episodes. Next ones will be on the basics of LinuxCNC.
>
> I have not heard any feedback about the logo so I assume that it is OK
> to keep using it. Please let me know if I am stepping on toes here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Mark,
I'm using the latest BeagleBone Black Debian and I've been told on this
forum that the Machinekit for BBB was forked off from the original EMC and
not to ask for help here.  So I don't.

The executable application dragged onto the desktop folder (not the desktop)
shows up on the desktop.   And then clicking on that executable results in a
dialog popping up every single time with the question as to whether I want
to run it, or run it in a command window, or cancel.  Also the icon for the
app is the generic gear icon.  A right click dialog does not have options to
change that.
I solved the problem after a an hour or two of searching.  Edit the shortcut
file in a command line editor and add the appropriate instructions to
prevent the dialog pop up and add in the path to the correct icon file.
Should all that be on the right click dialog?  Of course it should.   But
it's not.
And there in a nutshell is the reason Windows and Macs  outnumber Linux for
PCs used by almost everyone.  Forcing someone to use the command line
interface for a graphical user interface application is embedded into the
brain of the Linux fans as "not a problem".  It is a problem!  A huge one!
But for the Linux proponent I'm a troglodyte who just hasn't found the light
of the wonders of Linux.

I think I fair discussion for LinuxCNC would be on a version that separates
how the physical machine interface is done and how the graphical user
interface and G-Code/ladder logic/macro language is done.  For me to have to
be conversant in all things Linux for only the machine control side of
things on a BBB is a real waste of time when everything else I do must be
done on Windows.  My clients expect it.  Some of the tools only run on
windows.  So the argument to use WINE or some other VBox falls apart when
something like the In Circuit Debugger doesn't run in the VBox.

So let's put that 'religious' argument aside too.  

>From an embedded perspective what was available 5 years ago to what is
available now is very different.  A BBB with an Ethernet connection like the
Ethernet Smooth Stepper could likely do everything the Real Time part of
Linux is doing.  Especially with the two 200MHz Co-Processors.  It might
have to run a dedicated RTOS rather than real time Linux to be effective but
if the Real Time component is removed from LinuxCNC is there any reason that
part can't run as a Windows or  iOS Application?

And maybe that's a Fork in the code that is finally a really good idea.  

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Wendt [mailto:wendt.m...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-20-15 4:08 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM
> for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:49 PM, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > Ultimately remoting into the BBB still means learning two operating
> systems
> > when 99.9% of my work is done under Windows.
> >
> > To drag a drop a file onto the desktop on the Debian BBB MachineKit port
> > involves dragging it to the desktop folder and then using the ever
present
> > and needed text editor to edit the shortcut to make it work properly
with
> > the correct icon.
> >
> > In windows you drag it onto the desktop.  Period.  If you want to change
> > parameters right click and change stuff in a dialog.  No command line
> > needed.
> >
> > So if LinuxCNC is to be used in windows getting rid of the "Linux Guru
> > required"  option is  a major feature.
> >
> > John
> 
> Are you talking about a regular file, or an executable?  Either way,
> you can right-click on an icon and adjust the properties there, and
> make the file executable if you wish, which has been available since
> at least 10.04 LTS..  All done through the GUI.  On my Ubuntu machines
> at home and work, I can drag and drop, or cut and paste.  Maybe that's
> a legacy of the version of Debian being used in the MachineKit port?
> 
> 
> Mark
> --
> One Man, One Machine, One Computer!  
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethernet Hostmot2 (drop packets at init)

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Karlsson & Wang wrote:

> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 09:46:41 +0200
> From: Karlsson & Wang 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Ethernet Hostmot2 (drop packets at init)
> 
> I am using the hostmot2 driver with ethernet and sometimes startup does not 
> work properly. Then investegating further with wireshark I found that some 
> packets seems to not be received correctly. I also found time between 
> packages are very small at startup because they are sent as fast as the 
> computer while during operation there is a fixed time between packets.
>
> Have anyone else had similar problems?


Are you running 2.7.0?

Jeff Epler fixed some random startup issues with hm2_eth fairly recently
these are fixed in the released version 2.7.0


Also if this is with your remote hardware (not Mesa FPGA hardware), there may 
be possible data loss with all the write only initialization data sent at 
startup with no checking for possible buffer overflows. This is pretty well 
masked with our hardware since its pretty fast and has a 12K byte receive 
packet buffer in the Ethernet chip.

>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:47 AM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> And there in a nutshell is the reason Windows and Macs  outnumber Linux for
> PCs used by almost everyone.  Forcing someone to use the command line
> interface for a graphical user interface application is embedded into the
> brain of the Linux fans as "not a problem".  It is a problem!  A huge one!
>

Windows and Macs are very good at anticipating what you'll need and
providing a convenient GUI to accomplish that. The flip side of this is
that if your need happens not to be anticipated, you're Simply Out of Luck.
There's a nice way of saying this: "easy things are easy, but difficult
things are nigh impossible".
By the way, I use commandline on Windows a lot; pray tell, how to check
your IP address? You can click around in the network drivers trying to
remember how to get them up in this particular version of Windows, or just
hit the Windows key, and type cmd, and ipconfig. In general, I find it much
faster to use the Windows key and type the command (whether it's "word",
"firefox", "device manager", or whatever else), than hunt for the
particular place where this Windows and this user decided to place the
relevant icon. This is the part that people who complain about Windows 8
are missing---it simply doesn't matter that icons keep moving around if you
use the keyboard to say what you want.



> But for the Linux proponent I'm a troglodyte who just hasn't found the
> light
> of the wonders of Linux.
>

No, I do not consider you any of those things---I think people here just
are trying to tell you that you should learn that skill because it will
make you more productive. Maybe you'll even contribute a GUI shortcut for
the things that wre most annoying to you.
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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[Jim Craig]

On 9/20/2015 10:16 AM, rayj wrote:
> I was wondering if you are going to do an RSS feed, I think they call
> it, or if you'll publish notification when a new one comes out here on
> the list.  Don't want to add to your workload.  I'll just check in once
> in a while to see if there is a new one.
>
> Raymond Julian
>
Raymond,

I plan on announcing new videos that I produce on the mailing list and 
the forum. So as long as you reside on this mailing list you should get 
notification.

I will not necessarily be announcing videos that I put in other 
playlists from other YouTube accounts. I am not sure if this shows up 
through the subscription notifications either. So it may still pay to 
check back every now and again to see what other interesting LinuxCNC 
videos are out there.

To anyone else. If you have a tutorial video on LinuxCNC let me know so 
I can add it to a playlist. If you have a video on some features that 
you are using that may be of interest to others also let me know. I 
don't take credit for these videos I put them in specific playlists that 
are for others videos and are categorized based on the content.

Thanks,

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC mill + plasma cutter = CNC plasma cutter.

[N. Christopher Perry]

I wouldn't call that shade tree mechanics: I'd call it Yankee ingenuity!

N. Christopher Perry

> On Sep 19, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
>> On Saturday 19 September 2015 05:15:53 Gregg Eshelman wrote:
>> 
>> Matus1976 is building a motorcycle and needed to do some precision
>> plasma cutting.
>> 
>> Watch the video for his solution.
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJnrjIgVxzU
> Chuckle, handheld because it wobbles.  Shade tree at its best.
> 
> The closest I had come to that is several years ago now, when I had a 
> furniture project going for the next door neighbors, makeing a series of 
> benches to be wrapped around their huge dining room table, so with backs  
> & some without, but all with hinged seats so the box would double as toy 
> storage or whatever.  The mortis and tenon operations I was determined 
> to do on my toy mill.
> 
> So I sawed and milled a 1" thick, by 3" wide, and 16" long alu bar out of 
> that monster block I had bought.  Drilled a square 4 bolt pattern in one  
> end for 5/16" bolts to bolt it to the front face of the head of my toy, 
> which I had to drill & tap.  Then I made a formfitting 2 piece clamp to 
> hold a $30 Chicago die grinder's nose casting after I had filed it 
> fairly smooth.  And did a step and repeat tapped hole pattern in the 
> rest of the bar so I could mount the die grinder such that it hung far 
> enough out over the front of the table with the general idea of letting 
> the end of the stick getting the tenon cut on it, hang down in front of 
> the steel kitchen base cabinet the toy mill sits on.
> 
> Then I made a couple holder jigs out of white ash that mounted to the 
> table, one to carry the horizontally running sticks while the grinder 
> was digging the mortis's, and to hold the vertical stick vertical while 
> the grinder was cutting the tenon on the end of it.  Had to fine tune 
> the gcode a bit to get the right glue fits, but it carved 178 of those 
> joints in the next 2 weeks as I assembled the box carcass's.  I still 
> have the jigs and the grinder, and I could get setup to do it again in a 
> couple hours.
> 
> Similar shade tree engineering... ;-)
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

John,

Using the BBB is bleeding edge.  But you should know that if you are 
frequenting the Machinekit email list.

>>For me to have to
be conversant in all things Linux for only the machine control side of
things on a BBB is a real waste of time when everything else I do must be
done on Windows.  My clients expect it.

No one is making you use the BBB, that is your choice..  You will get bloody!

>>>And there in a nutshell is the reason Windows and Macs  outnumber Linux for
PCs used by almost everyone.

Blah blah blah  refer to the first line again.  :-)

>>  But for the Linux proponent I'm a troglodyte who just hasn't found the light
of the wonders of Linux.

If you want to make your LinuxCNC experience easy, get yourself some proven PC 
hardware and some
known supporting hardware and the live DVD for LinuxCNC 2.7 and install it.

Want to know why this is all worthwhile?

When you install a system on a commercial machine that is run every day and 
after commissioning and training they never call you with problems!
I need to think about where I have installed machines because I only hear from 
them when the hardware fails or they want another machine conversion.
Out of character behavior, like your router taking off and slamming into the 
stops just doesn't happen.

And that makes all of this very worthwhile!  :-)

Dave



On 9/20/2015 11:47 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> I'm using the latest BeagleBone Black Debian and I've been told on this
> forum that the Machinekit for BBB was forked off from the original EMC and
> not to ask for help here.  So I don't.
>
> The executable application dragged onto the desktop folder (not the desktop)
> shows up on the desktop.   And then clicking on that executable results in a
> dialog popping up every single time with the question as to whether I want
> to run it, or run it in a command window, or cancel.  Also the icon for the
> app is the generic gear icon.  A right click dialog does not have options to
> change that.
> I solved the problem after a an hour or two of searching.  Edit the shortcut
> file in a command line editor and add the appropriate instructions to
> prevent the dialog pop up and add in the path to the correct icon file.
> Should all that be on the right click dialog?  Of course it should.   But
> it's not.
> And there in a nutshell is the reason Windows and Macs  outnumber Linux for
> PCs used by almost everyone.  Forcing someone to use the command line
> interface for a graphical user interface application is embedded into the
> brain of the Linux fans as "not a problem".  It is a problem!  A huge one!
> But for the Linux proponent I'm a troglodyte who just hasn't found the light
> of the wonders of Linux.
>
> I think I fair discussion for LinuxCNC would be on a version that separates
> how the physical machine interface is done and how the graphical user
> interface and G-Code/ladder logic/macro language is done.  For me to have to
> be conversant in all things Linux for only the machine control side of
> things on a BBB is a real waste of time when everything else I do must be
> done on Windows.  My clients expect it.  Some of the tools only run on
> windows.  So the argument to use WINE or some other VBox falls apart when
> something like the In Circuit Debugger doesn't run in the VBox.
>
> So let's put that 'religious' argument aside too.
>
> >From an embedded perspective what was available 5 years ago to what is
> available now is very different.  A BBB with an Ethernet connection like the
> Ethernet Smooth Stepper could likely do everything the Real Time part of
> Linux is doing.  Especially with the two 200MHz Co-Processors.  It might
> have to run a dedicated RTOS rather than real time Linux to be effective but
> if the Real Time component is removed from LinuxCNC is there any reason that
> part can't run as a Windows or  iOS Application?
>
> And maybe that's a Fork in the code that is finally a really good idea.
>
> John
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Wendt [mailto:wendt.m...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: September-20-15 4:08 AM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM
>> for LinuxCNC
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 2:49 PM, John Dammeyer 
>> wrote:
>>> Ultimately remoting into the BBB still means learning two operating
>> systems
>>> when 99.9% of my work is done under Windows.
>>>
>>> To drag a drop a file onto the desktop on the Debian BBB MachineKit port
>>> involves dragging it to the desktop folder and then using the ever
> present
>>> and needed text editor to edit the shortcut to make it work properly
> with
>>> the correct icon.
>>>
>>> In windows you drag it onto the desktop.  Period.  If you want to change
>>> parameters right click and change stuff in a dialog.  No command line
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> So if LinuxCNC is to be used in windows getting rid of the "Linux Guru
>>> required"  option is  a major feature.
>>>
>>> John
>> Are you

Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jon Elson]

On 09/20/2015 12:45 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> John,
>
> Using the BBB is bleeding edge.  But you should know that if you are
> frequenting the Machinekit email list.
>
>
Actually, it is not so bleeding edge anymore.  There are 
apparently thousands of people using it, mostly on 3D 
printers, but also on routers and mills.  These all use the 
PRU to do essentially what external step generators do on 
X86 LinuxCNC systems.  This has been running for almost 2 
years, now.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC mill + plasma cutter = CNC plasma cutter.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 20 September 2015 13:23:31 N. Christopher Perry wrote:

> I wouldn't call that shade tree mechanics: I'd call it Yankee
> ingenuity!
>
> N. Christopher Perry

Well, I'll have to plead guilty to having a lot of old Iowa farm kid 
blood in me. :)  Direct descendent of a Madison County Iowa (yeah, where 
Steep and Eastood made out all those years ago in "Bridges") farmer
who had a 32 volt windcharger/delco electrical system for household 
lighting, and also ran the washing machine after the maytag kicked back 
and broke grandma's ankle.  By then he had already put in several years 
as Superintendent of schools in Waukee Iowa, and his 2nd daughter, my 
mother, was the only girl in the class on aviation technology at Des 
Moines Technical High school, in 1929.  That man could do anythiung, 
including hand carving a new blade for the windcharger that 
out-performed the replacement blade he was able to order from the 
catalogs of the day.  And it only took him about a day & a half from the 
native oak 2x6 he had sawed on his own saw mill that he started with.  
Including varnishing it and balanceing it.  Had to he said, the 
batteries were running low. That was my grandpa. :)

[snip]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC mill + plasma cutter = CNC plasma cutter.

[TJoseph Powderly]

very few people remember maytag being a stationary power source
like a kick start moped engine. used to run washers and refrigerators 
etc. thx Gene
tomp tjtr33

On 09/20/2015 03:51 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 20 September 2015 13:23:31 N. Christopher Perry wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't call that shade tree mechanics: I'd call it Yankee
>> ingenuity!
>>
>> N. Christopher Perry
>
> Well, I'll have to plead guilty to having a lot of old Iowa farm kid
> blood in me. :)  Direct descendent of a Madison County Iowa (yeah, where
> Steep and Eastood made out all those years ago in "Bridges") farmer
> who had a 32 volt windcharger/delco electrical system for household
> lighting, and also ran the washing machine after the maytag kicked back
> and broke grandma's ankle.

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle speed disparity problem

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 20 September 2015 11:28:51 Gene Heskett wrote:

Update below.

> Greetings;
>
> I have an apparent nominally 30% difference between the requested
> speed from the spindle's pid, and whats coming back from the encoder.
>
> Background:
>
> I have a limit3, named rvsaccel, between motion's speed-rps output pin
> and the pid.s.command pin useing it as a maxaccel limiter.
>
> I have some hal stuff that feeds a small tickle value into the bias
> pin of that pid, equ to about 20 rpm but dependent on the sign of the
> signal from motion.  Trimmable in the .ini file as FBIAS and RBIAS.
>
> Everything thru the pid is unity gain, but some more hal stuff also
> sets the pid.s.maxoutout to 0.98 of whatever the 5i25's pwmgen.scale
> is set to. pwmgen scale currently in the 28 range based on the top
> speed of about 2800 when the drive is wide open.  That way, a click on
> the plus or minus button is supposed to be 100 revs a click
>
> The encoder disk has 67 slots, one of which is longer and is the
> index, so the encoder scale is 67x4=268.
>
> But an MDI command of s1000m3, returns just under 20 rps average at
> the encoder.0.velocity output, not the 16.67 that came out of the
> pid.
>
> Sure, I can bring up the pid.Igain which will forcibly correct it but
> its way too slow to do it, so an m3-m4, or vice versa reversal results
> in a huge overshoot in the opposite direction before it can settle at
> nearly the correct speed again, as in if turning about 1005 revs fwd,
> an m4 will cause it to run up to about 1600 revs before it settles to
> around 1005 in reverse.  By slowing down the rate of reverse with the
> limit3, I can make it take 10 seconds to do the reversal, but the
> magnitude, 60-65% of this overshoot does not change!  Its just done in
> very slow motion.  The amount of Igain to achieve this is above unity,
> up to 5.0 before instability sets in.  The spindle speed is then VERY
> stiffly maintained, perhaps more than needed so I use 2.0 to 3.5
> there.
>
> Smaller versions of the overshoot are seen in just changing the speed
> with an s command, from 1000 to 100 actually results in a very
> momentary stop, then resumes at the new speed, or from 100 to 1000
> will shoot up to 1500 or so before it settles.  True in both
> directions, so its symmetrical.  And it is not affected by bypassing
> my cobbled up encoder noise filter whose worst case latency to a new
> valid output is 4 servo-threads=4 milliseconds, but it also reduces
> the noise to 25% of what comes out of the encoder.
>
> So, is there a method to reset the pid's Igain to zero, or even
> perhaps to change its sign, at least until a near module has indicated
> its just reached the correct speed?
>
> OR a way to reset the scale of the pwmgen that will not restrict its
> range, but which will match the requested to the result.
>
> This latter could be done with a mux2 switching the gain of a scale
> module between the pid.output and the pwmgen.value in, switching the
> mux2 from one preset value to the other according to a tally switch on
> the high/n/low knob.  This would require additional hal stuff to reset
> the pid.s.maxoutput accordingly, getting even more complex and hard to
> trace, and additional inputs to be configured and built. Not
> impossible of course, but a PIMB* to do.
>
> This effect is seen regardless of the pwmgen "scale" multiplier used
> as that avenue has been explored without seeing a trend toward
> correctness. Maybe I am missing something so obvious its not been
> considered?
>
> Suggestions please & thanks everybody.
>
> *PIMB, pain in my back, the disk collapse seems to be proceeding,
> pinching nerves ever tighter.  And that would require I go back to my
> skyhook & deer hoist to get the driver box off the high shelf above
> the operating computer.
>
> And the only place it might be a real problem is in doing some rigid
> tapping at high enough revs that the table or head could not keep up
> at the instant of the overshoot during the reversal at the end point
> set. It was not a problem with the head in low gear at 300 revs while
> doing some rigid tapping, driving a 10-24 tap last week. IOW I didn't
> break the tap. ;-)
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I did find by gross changes in the pwmgen.scale that there was a 
detectable effect, and I wound up set at 46.  This also required that I 
quadrupled the tickle bias for very low speeds, like 40 rpm.

Then I was able to tweak FF1, FF2, Pgain and Igain, and just a red hair 
of Dgain, while watching the m4-m3 results on the halscope.  Now, an m3 
when it was turning 2G's in reverse, shows the pid.output and the 
encoder velocity converging to a flat line in about 400 milliseconds, 
with no overshoots.  Amazingly, even if I allow rvsaccel to do it quick, 
the only effect is the clipping of the max + output of the PID, but the 
PID out, and the encoders velocity still meet as a flat line on the 
halscope with no overshoots.

That was the desired action/result, and I obv

Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[Allen]

Jim,

I can't tell you how helpful these vids will be for folks like me.
So many question I had when I first saw the probe program where cleared up.
Thank you, and keep em coming.

I had an idea for a video, those hal meters are pretty handy, could you 
add to the the probe series with a how to to set those meters up?
If that's already been covered elsewhere, perhaps a link to point us in 
the correct direction.

Thanks again, Allen


On 09/20/2015 06:03 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> The third video in the touch probe series is now available on YouTube.
> If you have any questions about the touch probe that I have not answered
> in the videos let me know and I will address them. If I have enough
> additional questions then I can make a fourth video answering them.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S9f0Nkoh8U
>
> Looks like there is decent response to the channel already so I will
> keep working on new episodes. Next ones will be on the basics of LinuxCNC.
>
> I have not heard any feedback about the logo so I assume that it is OK
> to keep using it. Please let me know if I am stepping on toes here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
> --
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC mill + plasma cutter = CNC plasma cutter.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 20 September 2015 16:58:29 TJoseph Powderly wrote:

> very few people remember maytag being a stationary power source
> like a kick start moped engine. used to run washers and refrigerators
> etc. thx Gene
> tomp tjtr33

Thats one advantage (or disadvanatge) of the accumulated years TomP.  You 
get to educate the younger set, until one of them comes back with "Whats 
a Maytag?" which as often as not means anybody under 75 unless they 
dabble in old antique engines.

I'll be 81 in 2 weeks, so yeah, I _was_ there.  That farm, before REA 
went thru, was 2 miles of mud road from the main road where that 2400 
volt line went by.  My wife and I visited the place about 10 or 11 years 
back, its just the original 3 room cottage with front & back porches 
now, and all the farm buildings are gone, so I have to assume the 
outhouse and thunder mug have been replaced by 1950 style indoor 
facilities, with the land where they stood leveled & sold so someone 
else can grow corn.  The people renting the house were amazed at what I 
told them about it from about 1940-41. A 25ish couple just getting 
started, he worked someplace in Winterset that I didn't commit to wet 
ram.  Treated right, that land was quite productive, and Grandpa knew 
well the business of crop rotation to conserve and enhance the soil, 
which was good, black loam Iowa soil only about half a mile from the 
Coon River.

[snip]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[Jim Craig]

On 9/20/2015 4:33 PM, Allen wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I can't tell you how helpful these vids will be for folks like me.
> So many question I had when I first saw the probe program where cleared up.
> Thank you, and keep em coming.

I am glad that the videos were helpful.

>
> I had an idea for a video, those hal meters are pretty handy, could you
> add to the the probe series with a how to to set those meters up?
> If that's already been covered elsewhere, perhaps a link to point us in
> the correct direction.
>
> Thanks again, Allen

I will be covering the HAL tools in some upcoming videos.

For now you can see the official man page for halmeter here:

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/halmeter.1.html 


I believe that you can launch the halmeter boxes automatically by adding 
the commands to the launcher for your config. Can't really say for 
certain right now but I can try it when I get back to my machine. Maybe 
one of the wizards can chime in here. I am just an apprentice and 
haven't graduated to wizard yet and probably won't for many years.

You can also see how to use it in the HAL manual here

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html#_halmeter 


You can access the halmeter from the GUI's also. I don't remember 
exactly where it is in Axis as I don't use it very much, but it is 
located on the bottom of the settings page in Gmoccapy.

Hope that helps.

Jim
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Re: [Emc-users] Ethernet Hostmot2 (drop packets at init)

[Karlsson & Wang]

> > I am using the hostmot2 driver with ethernet and sometimes startup does not 
> > work properly. Then investegating further with wireshark I found that some 
> > packets seems to not be received correctly. I also found time between 
> > packages are very small at startup because they are sent as fast as the 
> > computer while during operation there is a fixed time between packets.
> >
> > Have anyone else had similar problems?
> 
> 
> Are you running 2.7.0?
> 
> Jeff Epler fixed some random startup issues with hm2_eth fairly recently
> these are fixed in the released version 2.7.0
> 
> 
> Also if this is with your remote hardware (not Mesa FPGA hardware), there may 
> be possible data loss with all the write only initialization data sent at 
> startup with no checking for possible buffer overflows. This is pretty well 
> masked with our hardware since its pretty fast and has a 12K byte receive 
> packet buffer in the Ethernet chip.

My remote hardware had problem and then increasing the buffer size problem 
decreased considerably. Wireshark show 12 packets in a row with around 7µs 
between each in average. I am pretty sure it have happened in the direction to 
but not totally. It is not a big problem since only happens during startup then 
quite many packets are sent in a row for configuration during normal running 
packets are only sent with servo thread period.

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethernet Hostmot2 (drop packets at init)

[Jeff Epler]

I put together this patch which reduces the number of consecutive write
packets sent at startup.  In my testing system it reduced it from 22 to
2.  However, I only spent about 2 minutes testing it, just a handful of
startups.

-- >8 -- 
>From 5bf2780aff4b4af183ec54f1fbcd3f0a3b0408c7 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Jeff Epler 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:28:30 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] WIP hm2_eth: batch writes from hm2_force_write

---
 src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c   |2 +-
 src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h |2 ++
 src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.c  |4 
 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c 
b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c
index e57f14e..b1a3e80 100644
--- a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c
+++ b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hm2_eth.c
@@ -523,7 +523,7 @@ static int hm2_eth_enqueue_read(hm2_lowlevel_io_t *this, 
rtapi_u32 addr, void *b
 static int hm2_eth_enqueue_write(hm2_lowlevel_io_t *this, rtapi_u32 addr, void 
*buffer, int size);
 
 static int hm2_eth_write(hm2_lowlevel_io_t *this, rtapi_u32 addr, void 
*buffer, int size) {
-if(rtapi_task_self() >= 0)
+if(rtapi_task_self() >= 0 || this->queue_writes)
 return hm2_eth_enqueue_write(this, addr, buffer, size);
 
 int send;
diff --git a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h 
b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h
index 3df443c..81e40fd 100644
--- a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h
+++ b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2-lowlevel.h
@@ -144,6 +144,8 @@ struct hm2_lowlevel_io_struct {
 // if TRUE, the hostmot2 driver will export those three functions and also 
read_gpio() and write_gpio()
 int threadsafe;
 
+// if TRUE, queue writes for a subsequent call to ->send_queued_writes()
+int queue_writes;
 void *private;  // for the low-level driver to hang their struct on
 };
 
diff --git a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.c 
b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.c
index 3acb34d..57365a8 100644
--- a/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.c
+++ b/src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/hostmot2.c
@@ -1655,6 +1655,7 @@ void rtapi_app_exit(void) {
 
 // this pushes our idea of what things are like into the FPGA's poor little 
mind
 void hm2_force_write(hostmot2_t *hm2) {
+hm2->llio->queue_writes = 1;
 hm2_watchdog_force_write(hm2);
 hm2_ioport_force_write(hm2);
 hm2_encoder_force_write(hm2);
@@ -1664,5 +1665,8 @@ void hm2_force_write(hostmot2_t *hm2) {
 hm2_sserial_force_write(hm2);
 hm2_bspi_force_write(hm2);
 hm2_dpll_force_write(hm2);
+
+hm2->llio->queue_writes = 0;
+if(hm2->llio->send_queued_writes) hm2->llio->send_queued_writes(hm2->llio);
 }
 
-- 
1.7.10.4


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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

The concept of a PRU isn't new either.   There's one on the M9S12 that
although not recommended for new projects is still in use.  The 9S12 is
based on the original 6809 processor with some 16 bit operations but mostly
still an 8 bit unit.  Development still possible under WIN-XP and debugging
with P&E hardware.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: September-20-15 12:47 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM
> for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> On 09/20/2015 12:45 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > Using the BBB is bleeding edge.  But you should know that if you are
> > frequenting the Machinekit email list.
> >
> >
> Actually, it is not so bleeding edge anymore.  There are
> apparently thousands of people using it, mostly on 3D
> printers, but also on routers and mills.  These all use the
> PRU to do essentially what external step generators do on
> X86 LinuxCNC systems.  This has been running for almost 2
> years, now.
> 
> Jon
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Learning LinuxCNC Youtube Channel

[andy pugh]

On 20 September 2015 at 22:49, Jim Craig  wrote:
> I believe that you can launch the halmeter boxes automatically by adding
> the commands to the launcher for your config.

Indeed, you can add lines to a HAL file to pop-up a halmeter of a
specific signal. pin or parameter, or you can get a halmeter and a
selector box to choose the signal from the Menu in Axis.
(You can also start halmeter by typing "loadusr halmeter" in the "show
HAL configuration" display command line, or in a terminal window if
you connect to HAL with "halcmd -kf"


-- 
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If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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