Re: [Emc-users] I & J code

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 10:36 AM 11/8/2008, you wrote:


>-Original Message-
>From: Kenneth Lerman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: 08 November 2008 05:27 PM
>To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] I & J code
>
>If you (or anyone else) decide to change the interpreter, I think you
>should add a parameter to the ini file supporting IJ_MODE_ABSOLUTE = 1
>so that the same interpreter will support both modes.
>
>Ken
>
>Hi Ken
>
>Thanks for your reply, I suppose I was looking a Gcode answer. I don't want
>to change the interpreter.
>Regards
>Dave

There are programs available that you can run your gcode thru and do things 
like switch IJ from incremental to absolute.
NCPlot is one.  There must be something available that will run in linux.

I am not sure but I think absolute IJ arc centers force the interpreter to 
do more calculations and so slow things down.


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Re: [Emc-users] Thread cutting

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 05:00 PM 11/5/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >Well, there is also KBC, MSC, Enco, J&L, and probably some others.
> >Doesn't Little Machine Shop
> >sell smaller tooling for the desktop machines?
>
>Yes, but his selection is still limited, and while low priced generally, the
>old adage about getting what you pay for comes to mind.
>
>And I finally remembered the name of my toolset, Glanz.  Inserts are from
>a 'V' name IIRC.  Velleman maybe?  And I've got MSC catalogs, but Hennley
>beats their prices everytime.  And I'm not familiar with the remaining names.
>
> >I use KBC a lot as they
> >are the last one to keep a location in my town, and I save a bundle by
> >picking up heavy stuff at their warehouse.
>
>I assume they have a web page?
>
>Thanks.
>
> >Jon

The travers web site works OK with the latest version of windows explorer 
but they have a long way to go to get to McMaster Carr's level for on line 
catalog.
There paper catalog does have a lot of handy information on insert part 
number decoding, grades, coatings, speeds and feeds etc..

If you good tooling to use in a small lathe look at tools that are ment for 
swiss type turning machines.
Like this.
http://www.whizcut.se/applications_swiss_automatics.html

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency Test

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:44 PM 10/30/2008, you wrote:
> >
> > Now it says I should "abuse" the computer to find the worst case.
> >
> > But do not run EMC2 or Stepconf.
> >
> > Right now I have two questions.
> > 1. Why would I what to do any thing to make it worst?
> > 2. Why can I not run EMC2 and/or Stepconf.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dave
> >

They are assuming that while the machine is running a part you could be 
designing the next part in a CAD program, while playing some background 
music, and downloading a full length movie.

I always assumed the latency test, EMC and Stepconf all use the same parts 
of the real time code which was not intended to be used by more then one 
program.
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Re: [Emc-users] hot wire cutting

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 02:56 PM 10/21/2008, you wrote:
>Dear Andre
>
>I am not yet through with all parts of the config and manual, I can simply 
>run I test to get a confirmation on degeree of freedom denomination. 
>Basically I would assume, that this a question ofe definition. my supplier 
>said, he uses xZ in bridge plane and Y along the table. If So I would 
>assume, I should use on bridge 1 XZ (if Y is blocked) and on bridge 2 U and W.
>
>does that make sense to or do I have to stick to your definition?
>
>greets chris

Yep it really is a question of definition, and what really matters is that 
whatever software you have creating programs works with the machine.

Most of the bridge machines I have seen had the X axis setup along the 
travel of the bridge.

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Re: [Emc-users] Bridgeport R2E3

[Andre' Blanchard]

Thanks for the info.

As for the 3PH transformer, I am not connected to the grid, got a PV and 
wind generator setup with a battery pack and an inverter which will not run 
a machine of this size for any useful length of time anyway.
Picked up a 3PH diesel generator a few years back that will run this kind 
of tool so 3PH is not a problem.  The generator is 208V and the plate on 
the mill says 230V but most of the time that is not a problem with motors 
unless running at full load, it would put that 100 volt bus down around 90 
volts.  Maybe need some boost transformers unless the existing transformer 
in the machine has some different taps.

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Re: [Emc-users] hot wire cutting

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:47 AM 10/21/2008, you wrote:
>emc is capable of controlling 6 linear and 3 rotary axes.  Your type of
>machine might be called XYZUV when moving motors on both bridges.
>
>I don't believe there are any configuration examples of wire cutting
>machines.  However, we'd be happy to help you get it working with
>emc--it sounds like a fun project.
>
>Jeff


The way I am looking at it the moveable bridge would be XYZ and the fixed 
bridge would be VW.
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[Emc-users] Bridgeport R2E3

[Andre' Blanchard]

I am looking at buying a BP series II R2E3.  Near as I can tell so far 
everything works, jogs around and runs one block commands in MDI, I could 
not figure out how to punch in a complete program when I was looking at the 
machine.

I was wondering if I were to convert it to EMC how much of the existing 
hardware I could use, servos, drivers etc..
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Re: [Emc-users] Axis question

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 08:10 AM 10/16/2008, you wrote:
>Sorry about the late comment on this thread. New to EMC.
>
>Another data point for future EMC enhancements related to 
>feedhold/stopping/restarting a program.. On a Siemens Acramatic 2100 
>control (Cin-Mil vertical machining center), a "spindle stop" shuts down 
>all axis movement, stops the spindle and shuts down coolant. The program 
>is still active yet all axis can be jogged manually (i.e. to view the 
>part). "Spindle start" restarts the spindle and the coolant (if previously 
>on) without any axis movement. Holding "cycle start" returns axis to 
>original location at feed rate as long as "cycle start" is depressed 
>(releasing "cycle start" stops all movement back to the original 
>location). Once the original location is reached, all axis stop. A second 
>momentary pressing of "cycle start" continues the program where things 
>left off. Can EMC do something similar?
No.


>  If not, would it be useful in a future version?
Very.

Never used a control where holding the cycle start in moves things back to 
the orginal location, but it sounds interesting.
The ones I run just move on to the next programmed block fine if it is a G1 
move and in absolute mode, but can cause problems with G2, G3 moves or if 
the G code is in incremental mode.
Also most of the machines I have run the operator needs to remember to turn 
on the spindle, the machine builders pass it off as a safty issue.  I think 
it is just a good way to break end mills.

Since EMC needs to use computer keyboards the procedure may need to be 
somthing like.
Push cycle start to put the spindle, coolant, air blast, etc. back to 
original condition.
Push again to move back into positon.
Push a third time to get the program running.

Also note that EMC does not use a cycle start, feed hold, and a toggle 
switch for auto single block like most commertial machines it has cycle 
start, pause, single step, and restart buttons I think that is what they 
are called.


>  Not a show-stopper for my current EMC application.
>P.S. Successfully recompiled EMC in simulator mode under Ubuntu Hardy. 
>EMC's an impressive free (as in speech, not beer) control application. 
>Thanks for all your hard work..Dean
>
>Terry wrote:

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Re: [Emc-users] Variable File Question

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 04:42 PM 10/15/2008, you wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 05:16:21PM -0400, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
> >
> > Any var that exists in the var file at startup will be saved, but I
> > don't think that "new ones" are created in the file.  So if you set
> > #4327=1 in your G-code, but #4327 wasn't in the var file at EMC2
> > startup, then it won't be saved.
>
> >
>
>This is right -- also, to answer the other part of the question, you
>shouldn't write to the var file while emc is running -- just use MDI
>and let emc handle the var file.  Everything just works better that
>way (single reader, single writer).

Would it be posible to have EMC lock the file so that is cannot be changed 
or even viewed so that all reading and editing of the variables can only 
happen thru EMC?
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Dia Compensation

[Andre' Blanchard]

I had a much longer reply to an earlier message but this is better, 
(shorter and more to the point).

Believe it or not the people who buy controls from the likes of Fanuc and 
Mit have provided feedback which has guided the development of those 
controls over the years.
If you users did not find it useful to be able turn off such strict 
adherence to the G-code they would not ask for it or pay for it.

Having to rewrite a program because you want to use a 1/2 end mill instead 
of the 3/8 the programmer was thinking of so they put a 0.219 rad into a 
few corners, is a waste of time.  Particularly when for most parts, such 
inside rads just do not matter much.

Have you read a Fanuc or Mit programming manual to see just how this type 
of thing has been handled?
No need to reinvent the wheel, round ones have proven to be the best for 
almost every use.


At 04:23 PM 8/18/2008, you wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>I agree with Terry. The machine should do exactly what the program
>tells it to do - nothing more - nothing less. I realize this is a
>reiteration of previous conversations but I wanted to vote on this
>subject.
>thanks
>Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.2.6

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:39 PM 8/11/2008, you wrote:

>The easiest editor for most people will probably just be gedit aka "Text
>Editor" in the Accessories menu.
>
>Moses

A small easy to use editor that can open up the same and/or multiple files 
in multiple windows is something that would be really handy for editing 
large files on Linux.  I have never figured out how people can edit a large 
text file without being able to view and reference two or three other 
locations in the same file, they must have a lot better memories then me.

I tried to install Crisp but none of the install downloads would do 
anything more the make the screen blink, never could get a reply from them 
so not sure I want to send them any money anyway.  And by the way a single 
downloaded windows version installed without any problems on three 
different computers runing two different versions of windows, I think that 
is the type of thing Steve is saying is a problem with Linux and the mass 
of computer users.
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Re: [Emc-users] If I can use M5i20 for 3 axes milling CNC Machines with servo motors

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:27 PM 8/6/2008, you wrote:
>An Pham Duc wrote:
> > I have a project using EMC2 as a controller for a 3 axes milling CNC
> > Machine, that is a real tool machine using in mechanical industry. I
> > have driver for the servo motors and now I have choose a motion card to
> > control the servo motors. But when I see CNC machine that are controlled
> > by EMC, these machines are almost small machine that use step motors to
> > make motion.
>This is a "small" machine?
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
>There are also several Mazak Micro-Center V machines.
>See this page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
>if you want to see more videos of mid to large machines run by EMC.

This may be a good place to give a few links to the story behind the inital 
development and history of EMC.
http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/6/5/lang,en/

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Re: [Emc-users] Steppers vs Servo based CNC kit for Sherline Mill ?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:21 AM 7/28/2008, you wrote:
>I am a "servo bigot", and just don't want to do anything like
>machining metal while "flying blind", which is how I think of
>stepper systems.
>
>Jon

Personally I would go one step farther. I want torque or velocity mode 
system and not a position mode (step/dir) motion control system.  With the 
position mode system be it a stepper or a servo with a step/dir driver the 
motion control loop is just assuming that the hardware is keeping up.  Even 
if the driver outputs a following error signal and it is connected back to 
the motion controller it is generally just a digital signal so it cannot 
know when it is getting close, it only knows after the error has been tripped.

Steppers have there place, but if you have to put a bunch of stuff 
(anti-resonance circuits, micro stepping, no motion power down etc.) into 
the controller to get one to work like a servo motor why not just use a motor.

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC the right choice for us?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 03:29 PM 7/2/2008, you wrote:
>Andre' Blanchard schrieb:
> >>
>
> >>>>> - Measurement of the surface for a Z-correction
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> probing?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> At the beginning of each program we measure the Z-profile of the surface
> >>> of the sheet. This profile is used to correct the position of the Z-axis
> >>> to get a precise cutting depth.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> EMC currently doesn't have a feature like that.  I suspect it
> >> could be done, but it wouldn't be trivial.
> >>
> >
> > May be easier to run an EMC program to probe the surface and store the 
> data
> > in a file.
> > Run an offline program to appliy the probe data to the part program.
> > Then run the modified part program in EMC.
> >
>
>I am not sure. Let's say you have a movement over the whole sheet. How
>could you correct it if you have a little buckle in the middle?
>
>I would say it should be a layer somewhere between the vector generation
>and the hardware. What does "it wouldn't be trivial" mean in man-months?
>
>Regards,
>Kai

The program that does the correction would take any long moves and divide 
them up into shorter moves so that the Z corrections could be applied evenly.

Sounds like what you want would be an extension of a pitch error 
compensation system.
Some text at the bottom of this page but others would know more about it 
then me.
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Kinematics
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Re: [Emc-users] EMC the right choice for us?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:36 PM 7/2/2008, you wrote:
>Kai Schaeffer wrote:
> >
> >>There's also an issue with the speed at which the interpreter can
> >>process and output G-code lines, but others know more about this...
> >>
> >
> > Good point. What happens if the system is running out of lines? Does the
> > machine stop properly and continues when more data is available?
> >
>Why would it run out of lines?  It should always have a buffer
>of interpreted G-code to read ahead.  I did some experiments
>with the relatively new G64 P command to set the allowable
>tolerance during contouring.  I was doing 588 blocks of G-code a
>second, and that seemed to be limited by the feedrate I had set
>and acceleration limits for the machine, not the CPU.  This was
>on a 600 MHz Pentium III, so much faster hardware is available.
> >

It kind of sounds like the current system may be running multiple machines 
off one computer, some type of drip feed DNC.


> >>>- Measurement of the surface for a Z-correction
> >>>
> >>
> >>probing?
> >>
> >
> > At the beginning of each program we measure the Z-profile of the surface
> > of the sheet. This profile is used to correct the position of the Z-axis
> > to get a precise cutting depth.
> >
>EMC currently doesn't have a feature like that.  I suspect it
>could be done, but it wouldn't be trivial.

May be easier to run an EMC program to probe the surface and store the data 
in a file.
Run an offline program to appliy the probe data to the part program.
Then run the modified part program in EMC.

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Re: [Emc-users] AXIS Tool Status Line

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 02:21 PM 6/25/2008, you wrote:
>Kirk Wallace wrote:
>
> > That's how I determined that I was getting what I needed, but I was
> > expecting the tool status line to reflect the tool data with any active
> > modifications like offset applied. Without putting allot of thought into
> > it, it seems that TxM6 should just put a tool into the spindle or
> > toolpost/turret and nothing else. Offsets, lengths, radii compensation
> > should only be active when invoked, Maybe I'm missing something?
> >
>
>TxM6 loads the tool, only.
>
>G43Hx sets the offsets, only.
>
>The tool status line simply tells you which tool is loaded, not which
>offsets are in effect.  EMC does not force you to use the same 'x' in
>TxM6 and G43Hx.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>John Kasunich

I think the confusion comes from having a tool/pocket number in the tool 
offset table.
Most machines I know that have twin arm tool changers, also known as random 
tool changers because the tools migrate from pocket to pocket, have a table 
to track which tool is in which pocket, and a separate and unrelated table 
with the tool offset information.  The tool offset information is not in 
any way connected with a tool number but just with and offset number, so 
any offset can be used with any tool and a tool change just puts tool 
number X in the spindle and does not tell the control anything about that tool.

Machines that do not have random tool changers do not need the table to 
keep track of where to find tool number X so the tool and pocket number are 
always the same.

I have not really formed an opinion about the way EMC has it setup.  First 
impression is I do not like it because it is different and has no 
addvantage (that jumps out at me) over what I am used to, but I have not 
used it enough to have any real problems with it.
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Re: [Emc-users] gcode and coordinate system explanation needed.

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:02 AM 6/23/2008, you wrote:

>On 22 jun 2008, at 22:06, John Thornton wrote:
>
> > G28 goes to a predefined position (home as defined in parameters
> > 5156-5166).
> >
> > To make G28 go to 0,0,100 you must home the machine there which will
> > become
> > 0,0,0. Then a G28Z0 with no space will home the Z axis only. The
> > space between
> > the G28 and the axis must call up an undocumented feature...
> >
>
>I'lltry what happens if I remove the space.
>
>I'll play around with the G28 a bit but I think I'll remove from the
>postprocessor. I don't see the need for going to 0,0,0 before starting.
>
>Dirk

Most of the controls I write programs for are Fanuc and Mitsubishi and of 
the bunch only one needs to be at home at the start of a program, and that 
is because of some bug in the integration of the machine and control, if it 
is not at home at the start of the program it tries to send the first tool 
down thru the floor.
Normally as long as there is a clear path from the current location to the 
position of the first move in the program, homeing at the start is not needed.

So most of my programs just start with a safty line to make sure all the 
correct modes are active.
At the end of each tool I send the spindle home with the line.
G91G28Z0M5

Note that the G91 is important other if the machine is in G90 the G28 will 
first go to the Z0 of the current work offset and then to the machine home, 
in many setups that will produce undesirable results.

And at the end of the program I add a second line to send the Y home after 
the Z is up out of the way, making it easier for the operator to change parts.
G91G28Z0M5
G91G28Y0
M30

Machines with pallet changers need to put the Z in some safe location 
(home) and then move the X and Y to some specific location at the start of 
the program to bring in the new pallet, but that should be handled by the 
pallet changing code.
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Re: [Emc-users] My Mill on EMC2

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:16 AM 6/9/2008, you wrote:
>On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 09:53:54PM -0400, Greg Michalski wrote:
> > A question though - when I have the file loaded and touch off to the
> > workpiece - it takes FOREVER to get back to ready to let me touch off the
> > next axis.  What is this the result of?
>
>When you touch off, AXIS regenerates the preview plot.  Showing a new
>plot after touching off is not as simple as moving the old preview plot
>to a new location, because gcode can do things like switch coordinate
>systems during a part program (e.g., issue G55 and switch to a system
>not affected by the Touch Off just performed for the G54 coordinate
>system) or even perform "O- IF" statements based on the interpreter
>variable that holds the G54 coordinate offset.
>
>One trick you might employ is to load a very simple gcode file, touch
>off, then load the real part program once you think your offsets are
>right.
>
>Jeff

Any idea what it would take to get AXIS to not generate the preview plot 
but still do the run plot?

Could be handy for very long running programs, I have not run any on EMC 
but I have run programs on other mills that go for 20 hours.
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki request

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:23 AM 6/7/2008, you wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 03:57:49PM -0700, Dave Engvall wrote:
> > OK, more dumb questions. Would a short ball screw do what you want?
> > It certainly would be more precise than acme rod; or do I miss the
> > intent?
>
>I'm not sure I could get the ball of an indicator lever to ride in the
>track on a ballscrew.
>
>Last year we noticed a bit of dragging of the tap on the threads while
>the tap was backing out at the end of a rigid tap cycle.  My intent is
>to try to quantify and understand this effect so we can offer
>adjustment for it in software.
>
> > If I remember I can bring ER40 1", .75 and .625 collets. I think I
> > have all three.
>
>I wish I could remember if the chuck is ER40.  I think it is.
>
>Thanks for your help Dave.
>
>Chris

What is the delay (in degrees of rotation) between reading the spindle 
encoder and positioning the Z axis?
That delay would be in opposite directions going and coming out.

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder with 5 000 000 pulses/rev

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:20 AM 6/6/2008, you wrote:
>  Aram,
>
>i talk to company that manufacture encoder with 5 000 000 pulses per rev.
>the problem is that that encoder has MAXIMUM rpm less than 200 rpm!!!
>so that encoder can be speen faster than 200 rpm because frequences not
>enogh to keep so much pulses.
>if you want speen faster get lower resolution incoder 1 000 000 pulses per
>rev.
>
>
>I am not sure which way you are going.
>5,000,000 pulses per rev at 200 rpm gives a 16,000,000 pulses per second 
>which means you have to handle 32 MHz signals to be able to count the pulses.
>These are (sorry for the wording) insane data rates.

One reason for such high res. encoders is to get good velocity resolution 
even if the position resolution is not needed.  In times past you would use 
the encoder you needed for position resolution and a good analog tach and 
velocity amp to do such things.  You see that kind of stuff on EDM machines.
Now days the insane digital rates are cheaper then the analog stuff and the 
people who really understand how to design good analog systems.

The 200 rpm limit is likely a bandwidth limit on the electronics in the 
encoder, but there could also be some mechanical reason.

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Re: [Emc-users] ini.fiiles

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 06:45 AM 5/28/2008, you wrote:
>I know I,m missing something very simple here but:
>
>If I set max speed to equal feed speed the motors freeze on rapid moves.
>With max speed about 15 they just about start turning. If I set max speed
>to 20mm/s the motors do rapids move but do not go to the right position.
>
>There is also a reluctance for all motors to move in positive direction at
>lower max speeds
>
>All this also seems to happen in Mach3
>
>Unless anyone can figire this out I am going to rewire the drivers and
>power supply with shielded cable and fix them to an aluminium base.
>
>Aaron

May have been mentioned before but that (low speed reluctance) sounds like 
classic stepper motor resonance problems to me.  Do your drives have any 
adjustments for tuning that out?

I have seen a half step unipolar drive where on phase was weak and when 
accelerating up to speed the motor would sometimes switch directions and 
end up running (very rough) in the wrong direction.

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Re: [Emc-users] Harmonic gear and EMC2. ????

[Andre' Blanchard]

I think you should consider building a simple test slide, with guides, ball 
screw, servo, and a simple timing belt and pulley reduction.
That way you can try different reduction ratios and encoder resolutions and 
measure the speeds you can get and how smooth the motion is.

I think you will find out the timing belt and a moderate reduction around 
40 or 50 to 1 with a servo encoder in the (2500 to 5000) line count range 
will get you what you what you need.

5TPI * 50-1 * 5000 lines * 4quad = 500 counts per inch
Or 0.002 inches per count

Which at 0.00025IPM would be 1250 counts per minute or ~20 counts per second.


One cheap way to get an idea of the motion smoothness would be a laser 
pointer swinging on a knife edge pivot and a lever arm hanging down that is 
being pushed by the slide.  All setup on a good sized surface plate.
Then just watch the spot on a wall 50 feet away.






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Re: [Emc-users] Thread Milling

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 04:35 AM 5/21/2008, you wrote:

>I think I have a grasp of how this thing works now.  My only question
>left is, if the "teeth" are in rings, and there are multiple rings
>(and assuming the thread mill is spinning at that same time as the x
>and y axes are moving), how does the tool keep from munging the
>threads that are already cut if there is no "screw" ramp to
>them?  From the looks of the thread mill in the picture, the thread
>mill's "rings" all seem to be parallel with each other, and have no screw 
>ramp.
>
>Mark



When using the thread mill the "screw ramp" comes from doing a linear Z 
move while doing the circular move in the X,Y plane.
Thread mills tend to have extreme amounts of relief angle on the cutting 
edge to avoid rubbing in the tight spots they are used in.  Some cutters 
have teeth that look a lot like the top half of a birds beak (hawks or 
owls).  That form relief is one reason they are so expensive.

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Re: [Emc-users] Thread Milling

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:11 PM 5/20/2008, you wrote:
>Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
> >
> > Trying to wrap my mind around this tool.  One of the bullet points says
> > that only one tool needed for right or left hand threads.  Howdeydodat?
>
>It is not like a tap, it has no thread lead.  All the teeth are
>in rings.  The tricks is it only touches the OD in one line
>along the length of the hole.  It can do EXTERNAL threads the
>same way, you orbit around the OD of a post and it will thread
>the outside.  The spindle needs to extend or retract in synch
>with the rotation of the orbit to develop the correct thread pitch.
>
>Jon


And when you understand a thread mill you can look at the Thriller tools 
which have a drill point and cutting edges for chamfering the hole.  Some 
have a drill point and some types are like a center cutting end mill and 
make the hole and threads at the same time.
http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/019603.html

http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/120202.html
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Re: [Emc-users] Can emc do this? Not normal homing...

[Andre' Blanchard]

If by coordinate system offsets you mean X,Y,Z,A,B,C applied to G54-G59.3 
and also to a G52 local, then a G68 should not be needed.
The rotation offsets on the G54-G59.3 would handle part/program rotations 
and the G52 would handle rotations of pocketing subs and such stuff within 
the Gcode program.  May even be better as on some controls mixing G52 and 
G68 stuff can produce unwanted results.

Example of how I am thinking it could be used.
Say you had subs for milling letters and numbers and you wanted to mill 
text into the part in a circular patterns at different lotations on the 
part.  You would clamp the part to the table and set the g54 X,Y,Z work 
offset to the programmed zero on the part and the A,B,C rotated to the 
datums of the part.

Then in the program move the g52 offset around to the centers of the 
features on the part around which you wanted the text.  At each feature 
call the subs for each letter incrementing the g52 C offset between each 
letter.


Scaling can if needed be done with the existing macro stuff.

#500=1.5(X scale)
#501=2.0(Y scale)
#502=0.5(Z scale)

G0 X[0.0*#500] Y[0.0*#501] Z[0.0*#502]
G1 X[1.0*#500] Y[0.0*#501] Z[0.0*#502]
G1 X[1.0*#500] Y[1.0*#501] Z[0.0*#502]
G1 X[1.0*#500] Y[1.0*#501] Z[1.0*#502]

If the three scale values are the same you can also use G2,3 moves.
If scaling were built in to EMC I would like to see it done so it was 
possible to use G2,3 with unequal scale values.  Used to make ellipses on 
wire EDMs.


At 08:03 AM 5/20/2008, you wrote:

>There was quite a bit of work done at NIST with locating of and
>discovery of the pose of a casting using probing.  Much of it became a
>part of the CMM system they wrote.  The advantage of it was that they
>could throw a part up there anywhere on the table and the CMM would find
>the part, find the pose, and then measure the things it had been told to
>measure.
>
>There was also thinking that information like that found by the CMM
>could be translated into the six values assigned to coordinate offsets
>g54-g59.3 and used to locate and rotate a milling program.  I'm pretty
>certain that they did not get that far.  They did get a rudimentary six
>axis interpreter at the start of the process and six axis motion system
>at the other but IMO there was a lot of work yet to be accomplished
>between.
>
>As far as moving or rotating a part program in Cartesian space, I see no
>need to go beyond simple coordinate system offsets.  I know that this
>does not take account of scaling that part program but what else am I
>missing here?
>
>Rayh
>
>
>On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 07:18 -0500, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> > At 06:16 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:
> > >On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 05:41:25PM -0400, xtra209 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is there any work happening on G68?
> > >
> > >Can you find a link to a manual or similar source that describes
> > >definitively how G68 works?  I found some examples, and people
> > >asking questions about it, but none of them seemed like the full
> > >story.
> > >
> > >Chris
> >
> > There is this Fanuc manual.
> > 
> <http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downloads/Fadal/GE%20Fanuc/0010__GE_FANUC_User_Manual.pdf>http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downloads/Fadal/GE%20Fanuc/0010__GE_FANUC_User_Manual.pdf
> > It describes a 2 block 3D rotation which I think is interesting but have
> > never seen a machine that supported it.
> >
> > A manual for an older Mit M300V control.
> > It also describes other types of rotations such as pattern rotation 
> done in
> > an M98 sub call and rotations done with the G10 code.  And parameter
> > rotations which is the one used to align and entire program to a part
> > placed on the table, it is done outside the program as part of the 
> setup of
> > the job.  Unfortunately not a lot of info on that one but on the 
> machines I
> > have used it on (wire EDMs) it rotates around the work offset zero point
> > and is just an angle you enter on the screen as either degrees or a j,k 
> vector.
> > 
> <http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=0100010046090>http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=0100010046090
> >
> > I have not used the other types much, mostly just used the 2D G68 
> rotations.
> >
> > More Mit books.
> > 
> <http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/DOWNLOADS/-search_results?DocType=010&ManualType=0055>http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/DOWNLOADS/-search_results?DocType=010&ManualType=0055
> >
> > __
> > Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.
> >
> >
> >
> > -

Re: [Emc-users] Thread Milling

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:42 AM 5/20/2008, you wrote:

>I gotta go see one of these things in action...  ;-)
>
>Mark

Here is a vid that shows some thread milling on wee little holes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Z__gXxjZI&feature=related

Some single point thread milling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_osyWIEFY

Some animations on why thread milling over taps or lathe.  Got to love the 
feed rates they are pushing those animated tools at.;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcg3FFpT6Fo
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Re: [Emc-users] Can emc do this? Not normal homing...

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 06:16 PM 5/19/2008, you wrote:
>On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 05:41:25PM -0400, xtra209 wrote:
> >
> > Is there any work happening on G68?
>
>Can you find a link to a manual or similar source that describes
>definitively how G68 works?  I found some examples, and people
>asking questions about it, but none of them seemed like the full
>story.
>
>Chris

There is this Fanuc manual.
http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downloads/Fadal/GE%20Fanuc/0010__GE_FANUC_User_Manual.pdf
It describes a 2 block 3D rotation which I think is interesting but have 
never seen a machine that supported it.

A manual for an older Mit M300V control.
It also describes other types of rotations such as pattern rotation done in 
an M98 sub call and rotations done with the G10 code.  And parameter 
rotations which is the one used to align and entire program to a part 
placed on the table, it is done outside the program as part of the setup of 
the job.  Unfortunately not a lot of info on that one but on the machines I 
have used it on (wire EDMs) it rotates around the work offset zero point 
and is just an angle you enter on the screen as either degrees or a j,k vector.
http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=0100010046090

I have not used the other types much, mostly just used the 2D G68 rotations.

More Mit books.
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/DOWNLOADS/-search_results?DocType=010&ManualType=0055

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Re: [Emc-users] Can emc do this? Not normal homing...

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:37 AM 5/19/2008, you wrote:
>Thanks Ray and Andre,
>
>Yes, it is the grooves, ridges and frilly stuff I'm after... Only on
>drum shells which are similar but not enough the same to just run. Oh
>well, it never hurts to ask. I'm pretty sure it COULD  be done, I'm also
>sure I don't know enough to do it at this time. It may be time to go
>back to the move the whole axis mechanically method. Sort of like a wood
>lathe's tool rest with a cnc attached. H Good idea huh!
>
>Andre,
>
>I will have to check out G68. I don't have to tell the software it's a
>lathe instead of a mill.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Clint


I blanked out on that, I new there was no rotation in EMC, got a buch of 
other stuff going on.

Anyway here is a sub I did to rotate G1, and G2, G3 moves on a mill.
http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02059.html

It only works in the X, Y plane as written but it is a start.  Or you could 
setup your lathe to use X,Y instead of X,Z.


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Re: [Emc-users] Can emc do this? Not normal homing...

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:31 AM 5/19/2008, you wrote:

>Hi Clint
>
>Fascinating.  No EMC2 doesn't do that with a stock install or even a
>simple config change.  This seems to me to be more like angling the tool
>rest on a wood lathe and then using your finger to hold the cutting end
>of the tool at a fixed distance from the rest.
>
>A non-trivial kinematics would allow you to skew the X in relation to
>the Z.  I don't think ordinary machine "home" is a useful way to think
>about this.  It would require quite a bit of change to the kinematics to
>allow you to change the angle of the XZ relationship as simply as making
>a couple of "zero here" button presses.  I'm thinking that you'd have to
>change values in the kins file and recompile for each angle. But then
>you could compile several of these kinematics files and load the one
>nearest to the angle you are trying to match.
>
>I presume that the reason you'd like an Z0 that is at an angle to the
>actual path of X is that you have grooves and ridges and frilly stuff
>along the length of the drum shell.  Personally I a lot rather see you
>handle the part program code in some sort of CAD/CAM or dedicated script
>routine and leave the definition of the lathe as a lathe.  I can imagine
>drawing up a cross section of the shell in CAD and then simply rotate
>all of it to the desired angle and press the make gcode button.
>
>Not much help.
>
>Rayh

Does the G68 command work on a lathe setup in EMC?

Could have a macro to help pick up the two points and automaticaly set the 
work offset and calculate the angle.
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Re: [Emc-users] Very low PRM system.

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:09 PM 4/22/2008, you wrote:
>Hi
>I have 3 questions.
>First if to make motor work on very low feed ­ 0.001 per minute need only
>high resolution encoder than may be needed belt reduction to the encoder
>shaft only, to get more pulses and not to whole motor shaft. Is this
>correct?
>Second, what is reasonable low feed with direct drive to motors that have
>8192x4 puls per revolution?
>Third, how much those encoder, with 2 250 000 lines, may cost ?
>Thanks
>Aram

If you have a good analog velocity mode system you can get smooth motion at 
slow speeds without a high line count encoder.

But then a good analog tach is not cheap if you are buying new but somthing 
to keep in mind if you find some suplus stuff.
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD Interference

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:35 AM 4/22/2008, you wrote:
>To the best of my knowledge, there has been no attempt to optimize the
>performance of the interpreter. If there is strong feeling that this might
>be a problem, I suspect that it could be improved significantly.
>
>My general experience with products that have never been optimized is that a
>factor of two is generally easy. A factor of five or ten isn't unusual.
>
>Ken

I thought EMC interpreted the entire G code program as it was loaded and 
not in real time when it is running.  Which explained why the modal codes 
display is only correct at the end of the program run.

If not why does it take so long to load a program?
If only for the graphics can it be disabled and the plot created as the 
program is run?

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Re: [Emc-users] Bandit Steppers

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 10:42 PM 4/15/2008, you wrote:
>I am losing patience with the Bandit on my Shizuoka mill, so I am
>thinking of converting to EMC2 sooner than later. I would like to save
>the stepper drivers but they look like they might have a proprietary
>integration with the controller. The drives have four inputs that appear
>to take in steps as quadrature signals plus their complements; QB,
>QA, /QB, /QA.
>
>QB  ___|```|___|```|_
>QA  _|```|___|```|___
>/QB ```|___|```|___|`
>/QA `|___|```|___|```
>
>... Darn, I just realized this will only work for the parallel port,
>which is too slow. I guess, I need new step/direction drivers plus a
>hardware clock generator. Unless someone knows of a clock generator with
>quadrature outputs.
>
>For a stepper driver, what do I need to consider to make the best
>integration with EMC2?
>
>My current drivers have a 45 V supply, 8 Amp limit, and 6 wires of which
>two are labeled "common". The motors are not labeled and I don't know
>how to determine the steps per revolution.
>
>I seem to recall the Geckos had a non-adjustable I in its PID tuning?
>
>I want to use limit and home switches, but I am used to homing on an
>encoder index and I won't have an index. It seems that a switch alone
>would not be accurate enough. I suppose I can add an index disk and
>sensor. On the other hand, this is only important if you don't want to
>touch off after powering up?
>
>It's time to hit the books, but any advise is appreciated.


Step direction to quadrature conversion can be done, not all that much of a 
circuit needed really.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12066

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Re: [Emc-users] tool limit

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 05:48 PM 4/4/2008, you wrote:

>I wounder if you could have an .ini file for each job which calls out a
>matching .tbl file. This way, you can have as many total tools as you
>want as long as any one job doesn't use more that 53(?) tools.
>
>(Agenda bump: If someone happens to be in the tool code anyway, maybe we
>could earmark an on-the-fly tool (wear) offset?)
>--
>Kirk Wallace (California, USA
>http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>Hardinge HNC lathe,
>Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
>Zubal lathe conversion pending
>Craftsman AA 109 restoration)

I think it would be best to follow industry and make the tool offsets 
availiable to macro use as variables both as read and write.  On the 
controls I have used the offsets start at #2000 or #1 or #13000.
When the offsets have a length, length wear, radus/dia., and wear values it 
is know as Type II offsets.

When they start a 2000 you only have 200 offsets.
#2001  Length offsets
   |
#2201  Length wear offsets
   |
#2401  Rad/Dia offsets
   |
#2601  Rad/Dia wear offsets

If they start at 1 you can have 1000 offsets.
#10001  Length offsets
   |
#11001  Length wear offsets
   |
#12000
There is a break here
#16001  Rad/Dia offsets
   |
#17001  Rad/Dia wear offsets
   |
#18000

It should be possible to change an offset from the control while a program 
is running or at least while it is stopped (feed hold or single step), the 
new offset would take effect at least at the next G43/44 for length G41/42 
for radius comp if hot the next block.

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Re: [Emc-users] practical training

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 05:47 PM 4/3/2008, you wrote:
>To whom it may concern.
>
>Does anybody know where i can get practical training on CNC lathe,or is 
>there any training software that i cun run from my computer. I am based in 
>Brisbane Australia.
>
>Regards
>
>Andrew

This is a good book on CNC programming, I think there is a third edition 
out now.
http://books.google.com/books?id=JNnQ8r5merMC

A good book for learning Macro B programming, EMC can do some/much of the 
stuff in this book but the syntax is very different and you need to find 
work around for some things.
http://books.google.com/books?id=YKvH-zYd3VwC

This is one of the best per dollar back plotters I have seen.  There is a 
limited freeware 2D version but if you are at all interested in Macro B 
programming the pay for version is well worth the cost.  It is about the 
only back plotter that will do macro B stuff.
http://www.ncplot.com/

And like John said EMC has simulators for different types of machines.

And just because it plots does not mean it will run right on a machine 
control, every control is a little different I have even seen two of the 
same machines with the same "controls" were one would run a program and the 
other would not.  I all depends on how things were setup when the control 
was installed on the machine.


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Re: [Emc-users] How to set certain AXIS settings to defaults?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:13 PM 3/27/2008, you wrote:
>Jon,
>
>Are you implying that you manually, or otherwise, get the table to within
>one encoder revolution of home and then do a homing sequence with EMC?
>
>Glenn


First CNC lathe I worked on was a LeBlond 19" Tape Turn Regal with a GE 
1050HLB control, and that is just how it worked.
It had steel rulers with marks every 0.1" and pointers on the slides.
Don't remember the exact procedure but they called it griding the machine 
or somthing like that.
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Re: [Emc-users] Can EMC2 support any 'AC Servo Motor'?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:15 PM 3/13/2008, you wrote:
>Dear Peter,
>
>Would you explain detailed about why using the analog velocity input is
>better then pules/direction?
>Thank you!!
>
>Howard

Step and direction makes a full step as fast as it can and then waits for 
the next step.
With the analog velocity command (especially with analog tach feedback) you 
can get much smoother motion.

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Re: [Emc-users] Radius to start differs from radius to end

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:01 PM 3/10/2008, you wrote:
>Gentlemen,
> Does Synergy's post allow you to specify the end point of the arc
>to be exactly on the circle? The distance between the starting point
>and the center of the radius AND the distance between the ending point
>and the center of the radius must match.
> I don't know the numeric precision of the calculations in EMC but
>on a Fanuc control I have had  to round down by a part of one ten
>thousandth of an inch in some of my manual calculations to make the
>circle interpolation work.
>thanks
>Stuart

There should be a parameter that you can set to the radius error you can 
live with, on the Fanuc's I have used it was 3410 but that may depend on 
which Fanuc control.

On some controls I have changed this radius tolerance to 0.5 inches or more 
because they will then cut a smoothly changing radius from start to end, 
other controls are less useful and just cut the arc at the starting radius 
and then add a straight line move at the end to get to the programmed 
finish position.

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Re: [Emc-users] UK suppliers of stepper motors and drive electronics

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 08:30 AM 2/13/2008, you wrote:

>Am 13.02.2008 um 11:41 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> > On 12 Feb 2008 at 18:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> >
> >> EMC can do PID just fine.  It's steppers that can't.  Steppers lose
> >> torque as the speed increases.  There is no way around this, it's
> >> just
> >> the physics of the motor.
> >
> >
> > Did someone rewrite the spec for PID?
>
>No, but steppers are different ;-), normally, PID works with a output
>signal from 0 to +-100%, but steppers are working as steppers, this
>mean, they "only" can do steps and not power. (I hope i can explain
>it clearly).
>The only way i could think to overcome this problem, is a logic in
>between EMC and the stepper driver who convert the PID output to more
>(and faster) or less (and slower) steps to the stepper driver. But
>still, if the stepper motor looses steps, the stepper is running out
>of sync, and would not come back, especially if you tries
>"harder" (more and faster steps).
>
>I could only recommend use servos with digital scales, or steppers
>without.
>I have seen some steppers with resolvers and feedback logic
>integrated, they could also behaves like servos, but still, then I
>would go to "real" servo drives.
>
>Hansjakob

Depends on which control loop is being discussed.

If in the position loop then the output of the PID calculation is a 
velocity command and will work with steppers just fine.
If in the velocity loop then the output is torque command and is of little 
use with steppers.
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Re: [Emc-users] Changing parameters within repeat loop

[Andre' Blanchard]

I am not real sure what you are after but it looks like you may have been 
using a proprotioal spacing fone when making your diagram.  That stuff 
works a lot better if both the composer and reader use a mono spaced font.

Each call to a sub can have different values.


At 11:07 AM 1/28/2008, you wrote:
>Can one change the value of parameters within a subroutines called with
>a repeat?
>
>I would like to mill/rout a large hexagonal arrays of indentations.
>like this:
>
>  o oo o  -->
>  o oo o o   <-
>  o o o o o o ...
>  o o o o o o o
>  o o o o o o
>  o oo o o
> o oo o
>
>except much larger arrays. ( for example 40 on a side.)
>Changing the number of dents in a row ( and some other parameters *)
>within a subroutine
>repeating over the rows would make this easy.  (using nested repeating
>subroutine calls) .
>
>Can I do this with EMC?   If not any suggestions?
>
>Craig
>
>*the x move direction from end of one row to the the beginning of the
>next, and the direction of x moves between holes in a row.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] gcode coordinate transforms

[Andre' Blanchard]

Here is an older message on how I did something like that.

http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02059.html


At 02:37 PM 1/7/2008, you wrote:
>Content-Language: en-US
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 
>boundary="_000_D96CF471A1D5994AA4677F4DC27F3EA865680694E2EXVMBX0162exc_"
>
>I wrote some parametized code last night to make protective bellows. I 
>wrote a subroutine to draw the right side of the bellows, then I wanted to 
>rotate the coordinate system 180 degrees and draw the left side using the 
>same subroutine. I couldn't find any coord system rotate code, only offset 
>codes. Surfing google it seemed G68/69 would work for me, but emc2 doesn't 
>recognize this code. Anyone know how to do this?
>
>I did get it working by adding another parameter to the subroutine that 
>takes +1 or -1. I then multiply all coords by this parameter allowing me 
>to flip the drawing. I am just curious if there is a better way. IMO Coord 
>system transforms would seem to be a useful option for gcoding.
>
>Colin
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Re: [Emc-users] two axis tabletop mill

[Andre' Blanchard]

Probably get labeled as a heretic but for a real simple low preformance 
system where you are not trying to run a 3 axis tool path at a constant 
velocity you may want to start with something like TurboCNC running on plan 
old DOS.  Unless you just want to have a Linix system.

You can always upgrade the computer and switch to EMC at a later date.

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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic, Broaching

[Andre' Blanchard]

Just found a good video on rotary broaching.
http://www.slatertools.com/video.htm
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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic, Broaching

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:10 AM 10/30/2007, you wrote:
>Has CNC changed the way keyways are made?

They make single point broaching a lot easier, I used to wear out my left 
wrist cranking a lathe carriage back and forth.
http://www.phorn.co.uk/Text/Broaching%20on%20a%20lathe.pdf

Then there is also rotary broaching.
http://www.productionmachining.com/articles/080502.html


>  I need to make some keyways
>for my mill conversion, and I have no tooling so far for doing it. Since
>I will may be buying tooling, I want to explore the options in order to
>make the best investment. I actually prefer not having keyways and going
>with set screws on countersinks. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks.
>
>--
>Kirk Wallace (California, USA
>http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>Hardinge HNC lathe
>Bridgeport mill conversion pending
>Zubal lathe conversion pending)


Without the keyway there to take the torque set screws are only good for 
very low power stuff that does not matter when they slip a bit.
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Re: [Emc-users] zero motion homing in program

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:20 AM 10/30/2007, you wrote:

>I always put a "cleanup" section at the end of my programs where I
>set the axes back to where I want them to be when I open EMC the next
>time and there I also set all the variables that I used back to zero.
>
>If I put the G92.1 command in the "Cleanup" section of the program
>that used the G92 command will that accomplish  the same as putting
>the G92.1 in the "setup" or preamble of all the other programs?

Only if you can be sure that the cleanup section was actually executed and 
not aborted.

Much better to also have a standard setup to put the machine in a known 
condition.

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Re: [Emc-users] Generating stick-font toolpaths?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:45 PM 10/18/2007, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I was wondering if anyone could suggest some open-source software for
>generating toolpaths for making signs.
>
>Apparently the preferred kind of font is called a "stick font" or
>"single stroke font" and I have found that there are quite a few
>commercial packages that do this.  We have been using QCAD's CAMExpert
>demo version (the full version of which is very reasonably priced) but
>both provide only one such font.
>
>Thanks,
>Pat

If you have not found yet it here is a thread on the subject.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30438


I have in the past done a few characters in single stroke but had the Z 
changing so that when cut with a V cutter it would make an outline like 
character but be much faster to machine.  Never found (or much looked for) 
a program to do it for me, would be nice.

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Re: [Emc-users] oversize transformer question

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:17 PM 10/17/2007, you wrote:
>I knew there would be inrush current to the capacitors, but I
>didn't realize that the transformer, in and of itself, would have
>an inrush current.  Guess that shows how much I know!
>
>I was planning to use one or more motor run capacitors to limit
>inrush current - use a relay in parallel with the cap, and close
>the relay a few seconds after applying power.
>
>Now that Jon brought it up, I think I will visit the local junkyard
>instead.
>
>Mark
>--- John Kasunich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Jon Elson wrote:
> > > Mark Pictor wrote:
> > >> 6.67kva 120v primary, 120v secondary
> >
> > > What the HE** do you need a 6.67 KVA transformer for?
> >
> > Mark already said that the transformers are at least twice as
> > big has he really needs.
> >
> > But they are free (other than shipping), so he's asking us what
> > "gotchas" there might be in using an oversize transformer.
> >
> > As long as there aren't any technical issues, an oversize but
> > free part often beats a right-sized but expensive one.  In this
> > case however, I think inrush current is a significant technical
> > issue.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Kasunich

Put a light bulb in series with the primary.
Flip the switch and the bulb flashes and gets dim as things charge up, then 
flip a second switch to short out the light bulb.
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Re: [Emc-users] Oh man, my home is broke...

[Andre' Blanchard]

Which coordinate system do you have the Axis display set to, machine or the 
work offsets?
Sounds like it is displaying relative to the work offset (G54) and you have 
a +3 inch offset of the Y axis.

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe, Tapered threads?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:29 AM 10/4/2007, you wrote:
>While on the subject of G76 being complex already  I've read that
>alternating the infeed works well as your tool cuts on leading edge with
>one pass, trailing edge with the next pass  Currently an infeed of
>29 Deg. moves the X and Z axis in (external threading) decreasing radius
>and adding to Z axis.  It doesn't seem that like it would (should) be
>too difficult to subtract the Z increment on every other pass.  And then
>EMC would have alternate flank infeed.


Sounds like option P2 or P4.
See if this like works.
http://books.google.com/books?id=JNnQ8r5merMC&printsec=frontcover#PPA354,M1
This is not a bad book to have as a referance if you are writing G code or 
CNC control software.

An example of a tapered thread with G76.
http://books.google.com/books?id=JNnQ8r5merMC&printsec=frontcover#PPA364,M1

I have also seen very course V threads cut in stages.  Start by cutting two 
threads side but side leaving a diamond shape to be cleaned out of the 
bottom.  This is done so that you do not have to take a roughing cut with 
the full length of the flank.  Normally done with multiple calls to G76 but 
I believe some machines have canned cycles for such things.

Cut 1
  __  __
 \/  \/
  \\\/\\\/
   \/  \/





Cut 2

 \/\/\/\/
  \  /  \\\/  \  /  \\\/
   \/\/\/\/




Cut 3

 \/ /\/ /
  \  /\\   /  \  /\\   /
   \/ /\/ /
\/  \/
 \\\/\\\/
  \/  \/

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Re: [Emc-users] User Interface

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 07:07 PM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
> > is there a way to edit the tool table
> > via the user interface, or do you have to manually open the tool file
> > and edit it there?
>
>AXIS doesn't have a tool-table editor built in.  In the upcoming EMC 2.2
>it will be possible to re-load the tool table and open an external tool
>editor (such as the gedit text editor) from the menu in AXIS.

Is that going to be limited to the tool offsets?

It is just as handy to be able to view and edit the work offsets and the 
rest of the numbered variables.
Ideally there would be a live display where one could watch the values 
change in realtime as the program runs.
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Speed Control with MESA m5i20

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:25 PM 9/11/2007, you wrote:

>Doesnt EMC have a PDM output option?
>This would be _much_ easier to filter than PWM.
>
>With PDM a ~.1 second time constant filter should be fine
>
>
>
> >
>
>Peter Wallace
>Mesa Electronics
>
>(\__/)
>(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
>(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


The step/dir for a stepper motor is basically a PDM output with a sign bit.

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Re: [Emc-users] Foam cutting configuration

[Andre' Blanchard]

In case you are looking for something to play around with here is a 4 axis 
shape I was messing around with at one time.
It does an ellipse in the XY plane and kind of an H shape in the UV.


G00 X0. Y4. U0. V4.

G01 X0. Y3. U0. V1.
G01 X0.0793 Y2.9976 U0.2667 V1.
G01 X0.1583 Y2.9906 U0.5333 V1.
G01 X0.2367 Y2.9789 U0.8000 V1.
G01 X0.3144 Y2.9627 U0.8618 V1.0098
G01 X0.3910 Y2.9421 U0.9176 V1.0382
G01 X0.4663 Y2.9173 U0.9618 V1.0824
G01 X0.5402 Y2.8885 U0.9902 V1.1382
G01 X0.6125 Y2.8559 U1. V1.2000
G01 X0.6831 Y2.8196 U1. V1.3200
G01 X0.7518 Y2.7800 U1. V1.4400
G01 X0.8186 Y2.7372 U1. V1.5600
G01 X0.8834 Y2.6915 U1. V1.6800
G01 X0.9462 Y2.6430 U1. V1.8000
G01 X1.0069 Y2.5920 U1.0098 V1.8618
G01 X1.0656 Y2.5387 U1.0382 V1.9176
G01 X1.1223 Y2.4832 U1.0824 V1.9618
G01 X1.1769 Y2.4256 U1.1382 V1.9902
G01 X1.2295 Y2.3662 U1.2000 V2.
G01 X1.2800 Y2.3051 U1.3500 V2.
G01 X1.3286 Y2.2424 U1.5000 V2.
G01 X1.3752 Y2.1782 U1.6500 V2.
G01 X1.4199 Y2.1127 U1.8000 V2.
G01 X1.4628 Y2.0459 U1.8618 V1.9902
G01 X1.5037 Y1.9780 U1.9176 V1.9618
G01 X1.5428 Y1.9090 U1.9618 V1.9176
G01 X1.5802 Y1.8390 U1.9902 V1.8618
G01 X1.6157 Y1.7681 U2. V1.8000
G01 X1.6496 Y1.6963 U2. V1.7200
G01 X1.6817 Y1.6238 U2. V1.6400
G01 X1.7121 Y1.5506 U2. V1.5600
G01 X1.7409 Y1.4766 U2. V1.4800
G01 X1.7681 Y1.4021 U2. V1.4000
G01 X1.7937 Y1.3270 U2. V1.3200
G01 X1.8177 Y1.2514 U2. V1.2400
G01 X1.8401 Y1.1753 U2. V1.1600
G01 X1.8610 Y1.0988 U2. V1.0800
G01 X1.8804 Y1.0219 U2. V1.
G01 X1.8983 Y0.9446 U2. V0.9200
G01 X1.9147 Y0.8670 U2. V0.8400
G01 X1.9296 Y0.7891 U2. V0.7600
G01 X1.9430 Y0.7109 U2. V0.6800
G01 X1.9550 Y0.6325 U2. V0.6000
G01 X1.9656 Y0.5539 U2. V0.5200
G01 X1.9748 Y0.4751 U2. V0.4400
G01 X1.9825 Y0.3961 U2. V0.3600
G01 X1.9888 Y0.3170 U2. V0.2800
G01 X1.9937 Y0.2379 U2. V0.2000
G01 X1.9972 Y0.1586 U2. V0.1200
G01 X1.9993 Y0.0793 U2. V0.0400
G01 X2. Y0. U2. V0.
G01 X1.9993 Y-0.0793 U2. V-0.0400
G01 X1.9972 Y-0.1586 U2. V-0.1200
G01 X1.9937 Y-0.2379 U2. V-0.2000
G01 X1.9888 Y-0.3170 U2. V-0.2800
G01 X1.9825 Y-0.3961 U2. V-0.3600
G01 X1.9748 Y-0.4751 U2. V-0.4400
G01 X1.9656 Y-0.5539 U2. V-0.5200
G01 X1.9550 Y-0.6325 U2. V-0.6000
G01 X1.9430 Y-0.7109 U2. V-0.6800
G01 X1.9296 Y-0.7891 U2. V-0.7600
G01 X1.9147 Y-0.8670 U2. V-0.8400
G01 X1.8983 Y-0.9446 U2. V-0.9200
G01 X1.8804 Y-1.0219 U2. V-1.
G01 X1.8610 Y-1.0988 U2. V-1.0800
G01 X1.8401 Y-1.1753 U2. V-1.1600
G01 X1.8177 Y-1.2514 U2. V-1.2400
G01 X1.7937 Y-1.3270 U2. V-1.3200
G01 X1.7681 Y-1.4021 U2. V-1.4000
G01 X1.7409 Y-1.4766 U2. V-1.4800
G01 X1.7121 Y-1.5506 U2. V-1.5600
G01 X1.6817 Y-1.6238 U2. V-1.6400
G01 X1.6496 Y-1.6963 U2. V-1.7200
G01 X1.6157 Y-1.7681 U2. V-1.8000
G01 X1.5802 Y-1.8390 U1.9902 V-1.8618
G01 X1.5428 Y-1.9090 U1.9618 V-1.9176
G01 X1.5037 Y-1.9780 U1.9176 V-1.9618
G01 X1.4628 Y-2.0459 U1.8618 V-1.9902
G01 X1.4199 Y-2.1127 U1.8000 V-2.
G01 X1.3752 Y-2.1782 U1.6500 V-2.
G01 X1.3286 Y-2.2424 U1.5000 V-2.
G01 X1.2800 Y-2.3051 U1.3500 V-2.
G01 X1.2295 Y-2.3662 U1.2000 V-2.
G01 X1.1769 Y-2.4256 U1.1382 V-1.9902
G01 X1.1223 Y-2.4832 U1.0824 V-1.9618
G01 X1.0656 Y-2.5387 U1.0382 V-1.9176
G01 X1.0069 Y-2.5920 U1.0098 V-1.8618
G01 X0.9462 Y-2.6430 U1. V-1.8000
G01 X0.8834 Y-2.6915 U1. V-1.6800
G01 X0.8186 Y-2.7372 U1. V-1.5600
G01 X0.7518 Y-2.7800 U1. V-1.4400
G01 X0.6831 Y-2.8196 U1. V-1.3200
G01 X0.6125 Y-2.8559 U1. V-1.2000
G01 X0.5402 Y-2.8885 U0.9902 V-1.1382
G01 X0.4663 Y-2.9173 U0.9618 V-1.0824
G01 X0.3910 Y-2.9421 U0.9176 V-1.0382
G01 X0.3144 Y-2.9627 U0.8618 V-1.0098
G01 X0.2367 Y-2.9789 U0.8000 V-1.
G01 X0.1583 Y-2.9906 U0.5333 V-1.
G01 X0.0793 Y-2.9976 U0.2667 V-1.
G01 X0. Y-3. U0. V-1.
G01 X-0.0793 Y-2.9976 U-0.2667 V-1.
G01 X-0.1583 Y-2.9906 U-0.5333 V-1.
G01 X-0.2367 Y-2.9789 U-0.8000 V-1.
G01 X-0.3144 Y-2.9627 U-0.8618 V-1.0098
G01 X-0.3910 Y-2.9421 U-0.9176 V-1.0382
G01 X-0.4663 Y-2.9173 U-0.9618 V-1.0824
G01 X-0.5402 Y-2.8885 U-0.9902 V-1.1382
G01 X-0.6125 Y-2.8559 U-1. V-1.2000
G01 X-0.6831 Y-2.8196 U-1. V-1.3200
G01 X-0.7518 Y-2.7800 U-1. V-1.4400
G01 X-0.8186 Y-2.7372 U-1. V-1.5600
G01 X-0.8834 Y-2.6915 U-1. V-1.6800
G01 X-0.9462 Y-2.6430 U-1. V-1.8000
G01 X-1.0069 Y-2.5920 U-1.0098 V-1.8618
G01 X-1.0656 Y-2.5387 U-1.0382 V-1.9176
G01 X-1.1223 Y-2.4832 U-1.0824 V-1.9618
G01 X-1.1769 Y-2.4256 U-1.1382 V-1.9902
G01 X-1.2295 Y-2.3662 U-1.2000 V-2.
G01 X-1.2800 Y-2.3051 U-1.3500 V-2.
G01 X-1.3286 Y-2.2424 U-1.5000 V-2.
G01 X-1.3752 Y-2.1782 U-1.6500 V-2.
G01 X-1.4199 Y-2.1127 U-1.8000 V-2.
G01 X-1.4628 Y-2.0459 U-1.8618 V-1.9902
G01 X-1.5037 Y-1.9780 U-1.9176 V-1.9618
G01 X-1.5428 Y-1.9090 U-1.9618 V-1.9176
G01 X-1.5802 Y-1.8390 U-1.9902 V-1

Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 08:11 AM 8/21/2007, you wrote:
>On Tuesday 21 August 2007, mgouget wrote:
> >Binding EMC2 to a *real* language seems an *excellent* idea to me.
> >
> >
> >
> >RS274 is an antique language. Adding O words, named parameters and special
> >comments, although very useful when nothing else is available, is only a
> >kludge...
> >
>I highly disagree with that word, its not a 'kludge' but simply is giving
>RS274 the same looping and branching abilities the basic cpu is capable of.

While it works and is way better then not having it and for the price it is 
great.
I guess the main thing I don't get is, why the strange syntax, what would 
have been wrong with doing IF THEN and IF GOTO branches and WHILE 
loops  like other CNC controls?

IF[#105LE0.0]GOTO8998
IF[#110LE0]GOTO8998
(Do stuff)
N8998

IF[]THEN#101=0.0005

WHILE[]DO1
(Do stuff)
WHILE[]DO2
(Do stuff)
WHILE[]DO3
(Do stuff)
END3
END2
END1



I get the feeling that not much research is done into how this stuff has 
been done in the past.
Why reinvent the wheel?



__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 10:39 AM 8/20/2007, you wrote:
>I beg to differ.
> >From the Language Features in that pdf. I see only 2 missing from emc2:
>
>- conversion functions (BCD to BIN, BIN to BCD)
>and
>- Printing of values to a serial port
>
>Additionally, I'm not sure what "System Variables to read and write a
>variety of CNC data items and generate alarm messages" means.
>
>Regards,
>Alex

That page is not a comprehensive list of Macro B, look at the programmers 
manual for a Mit. or Fanuc control for more.

The O word sub call gives an implementation much like a G65 call but there 
is no G66 equivalent.

The work offset numbers are available in EMC but, how to access the tool 
table values in EMC?
   These move around a lot on different machines but are usually around 
#2000 or #1 depends on if you have type I or type II offsets.

I do not believe EMC makes modal code status available to the macro code, 
normally starts at #4001 and #4201, I do know the list of modal codes on 
the display is not accurate with the running program.

Machine position information.
   Preceding block endpoint, #5001,#5002, etc..
   Current machine coordinate, #5021,#5022, etc..
   Work coordinate, #5021,#5022, etc..
   Skip coordinate, #5061,#5062, etc., these I think EMC may provide with 
the probe stuff.
   And tool position, #5081,#5082, etc., which is the work coordinate plus 
the current applied tool length offset.

The system I/O bits, usually start at #1000, all inputs can be read and 
some can be written.


And while EMC can do some of this the syntax is often very different making 
running a program written for a Fanuc on an EMC machine a challenge.  Also 
gives part programmers one more reason not to like EMC based machines, 
which makes them less likely to get purchased in the first place.

Now if the goal of EMC is hobby level stuff fine but I get the feeling it 
was intended for more.

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:06 AM 8/20/2007, you wrote:

>One of the things that often happens in these parts is that some folk
>are much more comfortable with software programming with it's loops and
>jumps and fancy maths and find g-code to be awkward. I don't have a
>problem with that and supported the O word as an extension to the
>interpreter even though there was no precedent/equivalent in the world
>of g-code.


But there is precedent and equivalent in the world of g-code, it's called 
MACRO-B and is and option available on most any control.
And it makes possible things EMC has not even come close to yet.

http://www.gefanuc.com/literature/pdf/gft-321.pdf

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Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Proglem with EMC script - understanding error message

[Andre' Blanchard]

I do not have time to reformat or rewrite now but here are a few things 
that stand out.
The sub definitions should come first you are setting the top level local 
variables first these should be at the begining of the main program.
Way too many [] EMC needs more then most controls I have used but not that 
many.
I would drop the N line numbers they are just distracting and without a 
GOTO comand have no use. IMO ;)

You do a call to the subs like

   N0400 o100 call [#12][#14]

But when I look in the sub definition you are not useing the values you 
passed in from #12 and #14.
Inside the sub these values will be in local (to the sub) variables #1 and #2.
A fast rewrite of sub 100, I think you intended something like this.

   o100 sub(cuts one slot in blank)
   G1 X[#1/2] F4
   G1 Y#2
   G0 Y[0-#2]
   G1 X#1
   G1 Y#2
   G0 Y[0-#2]
   endsub

For me I would also pass in the feed rate like this.

   o100 sub(cuts one slot in blank)
   G1 X[#1/2] F#3
   G1 Y#2
   G0 Y[0-#2]
   G1 X#1
   G1 Y#2
   G0 Y[0-#2]
   endsub

And a calling line would then be.

   o100 call [#12][#14][4.0]

That way you can use the same sub with diffenent feed rates, maybe not 
needed in this program but in larger programs that kind of thing makes it 
faster to change the things like feed rates while standing at the machine.
If you use a global variable for things like feeds and spindle speeds you 
can then change the value in the variable while the program is running and 
the new feed or spindle speed will take effect with the next block that has 
a F or S, not sure if that works in EMC but it does in the machines I am 
used to.

Got to go.





At 05:24 PM 8/16/2007, you wrote:
>Hi again,
>
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier mailing. As a result and
>after a considerable rewrite and correction I have now managed to get
>the script to load - however, it does nothing!! When I hit 'R' or press
>the play button, the screen flashes briefly and returns to the stop
>state - the machine doesn't even twitch...
>Do I have a problem in trying to run nested 'do - while' loops, its the
>only thing I can think of that might do nothing. there are no error
>messages displayed.
>Here is the rewritten script - any advice would be very welcome.
>Thanks.. Ian
>
>%
>#10 = 1.4( o.d )
>#11 = 0.38(root dia)
>#12 = [[#10 - #11] / 2](cut depth)
>#13 = 5(number of teeth)
>#14 = 4(length of cut)
>#15 = [360/[#13]](angular increment)
>#16 = 0.09(cutter thickness)
>#17 = 1(counter)
>#18 = 1(tooth counter)
>#19 = 10(step angle for rounding)
>#20 = [[#10]/2](radius of work)
>#21 = 10(increment for rounding steps)
>#22 = 90(final arc angle)
>
>o100 sub(cuts one slot in blank)
>G1 X[[#12]/2] F4
>G1 Y[#14] F4
>G0 Y[0-[#14]]
>G1 X[#12] F4
>G1 Y[#14] F4
>G0 Y[0-[14]]
>endsub
>
>o200 sub(rounds half top of pinion leaf in several steps)
>do
>G0 Z[[sin[#10]/[#20]] X[[cos[#10]/[#20]]
>G1 Y[#14] F4
>G0 Y[0-[#14]]
>G0 A[#21]
>#10 = [[#10]+[#21]]
>while [#10] LT [#22]
>endsub
>
>o300 sub(rounds other half top of pinion leaf in several steps)
>do
>G0 Z[0-[[sin[#10]/[#20]] X[[cos[#10]/[#20]]]
>G1 Y[#14] F4
>G0 Y[0-[#14]]
>G0 A[0-[#21]]
>#10 = [[#10]+[#21]]
>while [#10] LT [#22]
>endsub
>
>N0100 G92 X0 Y0 Z0(set axes to zero)
>N0200 G21 G91(metric units, incremental moves)
>
>N0300 do(first cut of pinion leaves)
>N0400 o100 call [#12][#14]
>N0500 [#17] = [#17] + 1(increment counter)
>N0600 G0 A[360/[#13]](rotate work one tooth distance)
>N0700 while [#17] LT 5
>
>N0800 [#17] = 1(set counter back to 1)
>N0900 G0 A[0-[[#15]/3]](rotate by thickness of pinion leaf and)
>N1000 G0 Z[#16](move cutter - saw - to other side of leaf)
>N1100 do(cut other side of pinion leaves)
>N1200 o100 call [#12][#14]
>N1300 [#17] = [#17] + 1
>N1400 G0 A[0-[360/[#13]]]
>N1500 while [#17] LT 5
>N1600 [#17] = 1(set counter back to 1)
>N1700 G0 A[[#15]/6](move cutter to centre of leaf)
>N1800 G0 Z[0-[[#16]/2]( )
>N1900 do(round over half the leaf and repeat for all leaves)
>N2000 o200 call [#10][#14][#20][#21][#22]
>N2100 #17 = [#17] + 1
>N2200 G0 A[360/[#13]]
>N2300 while #17 LT 5
>
>N2400 #17 = 1(set counter back to 1)
>N2500 G0 Z0 A-90(set cutter and pinion leaf back to centre)
>N2600 G0 Z[[#16]/2]
>N2700 do(round over other half the leaf and repeat for all
>
>leaves)
>N2800 o300 call [#10][#14][#20][#21][#22]
>N2900 #17 = [#17] + 1
>N3000 G0 A[0-[360/[#13]]]
>N3100 while #17 LT 5
>
>N3200 #17 = 1(clean up)
>N3300 G0 X-20 Z40 Y50(retract tool)
>N3200 G30
>%
>
>--
>Best wishes,
>
>Ian
>
>Ian W. Wright
>Sheffield  UK
>
>"The difference between theory and practice is much smaller in theory

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



---

Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language

[Andre' Blanchard]

He is probably looking for something a bit more industry standard.
Like G65 simple macro call and G66 modal macro call with G67 cancel, with 
more normal looking argument assignment.
Like this one using argument assignment type I.
G65 P1001 Z-0.750 R0.100 D#101 A#100 F#9
Then there is assignment type II which is more like what EMC does, the 
order of the parameters determines which local variable gets which value 
but the parameters on the calling line are labled with A_ B_ C_ I_ J_ K_ I_ 
J_ K_ I_ J_ K_ ... until all 33 local variables are used.

Then there is IF GOTO jumps and IF THEN loops

In the following #110 is the number of the tool being used and 13000 is the 
base number of the tool table with the radius comp numbers.
And #111 is the desired surface feet per minute, and the machine has a max 
spindle RPM of 8000.
*
(CALCULATE,RPM)
#33=#[13000+#110]*2(TEMP)
#19=[#111/[[3.1416*#33]/12]]
IF[#19LT8000]GOTO11
#19=8000.0
N11
*

Same thing using the IF THEN
*
(CALCULATE,RPM)
#33=#[13000+#110]*2(TEMP)
#19=[#111/[[3.1416*#33]/12]]
IF[#19GT8000]THEN #19=8000.0
*


and WHILE DO loops
*
#120= 2.000
#121= 0.010
WHILE[#120GT0.000]DO1
(code that does stuff with using #120)
#120=#120-#121
END1
*

and just a GOTO.
*
GOTO300
(code that does stuff)
N300
(code that does more stuff)
*



Also access to the status of the current modal commands using variable 
numbers 4001 - 4021 and 4201 - 4221.
Access to positon information using variables 5001 - 5104, so the macro can 
find out where the machine is currently siting and the endpoint of the 
block immediantly before the current one.
And every machine I have written macros for has had access to the tool data 
table so the macro can use that data to positon the tools without hitting 
things.

And all the rest of the stuff that comes with macro B, there is a macro A 
but it is a real pain to use.


At 06:56 AM 8/15/2007, you wrote:
>Hi Fenn,
>
>What is it that you imagined? Other than the fact that o-words are numeric
>(on my list of work to do is allowing them to be alphanumeric), what else
>would you like?
>
>Ken
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
>55 Main Street   Voice: (888)ISO-SEVO (888)476-7386
>Newtown, CT 06470Fax: (203)426-9138
>http://www.MarkKenny.com
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ben
>lipkowitz
>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:26 PM
>To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Macro Language
>
>
>Jeff,
>
>There most certainly is not any macro langauge, at least not one like I
>imagined. I bet someone figured that the O-word subroutine calls satisfied
>this feature request and moved it to the "done" list. I'm moving it back
>to the "request" list for now. Sorry about that.
>
>It sure was fun reading back over my old rambling super-future wishlist.
>
>-fenn

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] parameter out of range

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:09 AM 8/2/2007, you wrote:
>Gentlemen,
> I am getting an error when starting EMC on one of my development
>computers. It seems it started after an update.
> The error message is:
>
>Coordinate system index parameter 5220 out of range.
>
>
> This prevents EMC starting. EMC starts and runs fine using the sim
>configurations.
>I checked parameter 5220 in the var file. It is all zeros.
>
>What should I look at?
>
>thanks
>Stuart


Page 129 of the manual says 5220 is the number of the default work offset 
it should have a value between 1 and 9 for offsets G54 - G59.3.
"
During initialization, the coordinate system is selected that is specified 
by parameter 5220. A value
of 1 means the first coordinate system (the one G54 activates), a value of 
2 means the second
coordinate system (the one G55 activates), and so on. It is an error for 
the value of parameter 5220
to be anything but a whole number between one and nine.
"

Make it 1 of the standard G54 default.
__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Fixture offsets ?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 04:00 PM 7/31/2007, you wrote:
>Dave,
>
>   Once the machine is Homed g53 cooardinates never change. g54 0's can
>be set anywhere within the work envelope.
>
>Dale


Actually the zero points of the work offsets do not need to be within the 
work envelope.

A lathe setup guy pissed me off one time, the next program he got had the 
work offset zero point about 25 feet outside the machine.  He was looking 
at X,Z numbers around 300" and scratching his head, made no difference to 
the machine.

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Getting arcs as G2/G3 moves in g-code?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 01:02 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote:
>On Mon, 2007-07-30 at 12:04 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> > Dave Engvall wrote:
>
> > > My local approach (read fix) is to declare a zero diameter tool and
> > > then modify my tool table.
> > >
> > > Maybe one of the developers can explain how easy or difficult this
> > > would be to fix/implement.
> >
> > I don't think it needs "fixing".  It requires you to select
> > lead-in and lead-out points that do not contain inside corners,
> > and is strict about this.  I have gotten it to work fine.
> > Section 20.4 of this document
> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
> > shows how it works.
>
>
> Jon, I agree with you.  The way G41/G42 and the material-path
>tangential travel requirements are implemented in emc2 make sense to me
>(after about 10 hours of digging in, which I consider to be a pretty
>short curve, thanks to good docs).  I don't think it needs fixing
>either, unless there's a bug in the G41/G42 stuff, but I haven't
>detected any.

It needs fixing only from the point of view that it works in a manner 
unlike many machine controls in the industry.  With most controls there are 
a lot more options for different kinds of compensation.

This code will run on any control I have used as long as the value in the 
radius comp is less then 2" and if the interference checking is turned off 
it would work even with larger end mills, it would just cut backwards and 
leave and oversize hole.
But EMC will not get past the G41 line making using comp on internal shapes 
a more complicated dance.

G00 G54 X0. Y0. Z1.1000
G01 Z-1. F20.0
G01 X-1. Y0. G41 D1
G03 X1. Y0. I1. J0.
G03 X-1. Y0. I-1. J0.
G01 X0. Y0. G40



> I do like the earlier suggestion about providing the option of
>enabling/disabling the tangential contact requirements, if that is not
>too difficult.  Not because there's anything wrong with how it's
>implemented, but just because there may well be situations that I know
>tangential contact isn't going to be maintained, and I'm fine with that.
>If it could be set in the .ini file, that would be very helpful.
>Setting it in g-code would be even better, but I realize that would
>start to introduce non-standard things into the interpreter and is
>probably not a good idea.

In industry that is a very standard option.
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Re: [Emc-users] Getting arcs as G2/G3 moves in g-code?

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 02:00 AM 7/30/2007, you wrote:
> I'm getting going with emc2, after not having done nc/cnc work for a
>long time (like, almost 30 years ago, before software took me away from
>machining as a career).  I've been messing with the G41/G42 tool comp
>stuff, and have the lead-in moves working correctly.  However, I've got
>a question...
>
> I have run into the problem I see mentioned every now and then in the
>archives, wherein the tool comp algorithm has problems with series of G1
>moves that were generated by some higher-level application to represent
>an arc.  This makes sense, since emc2 can't maintain tangential contact
>with the material path at the vertices on the tool path.
>
> I was surprised to run into this, as my expectation was that 
> these arcs
>would have been represented by equivalent G2/G3 arc moves instead of a
>series of G1 moves.  So, I started digging into the code behind every
>open-source package I can find, including OOdraw, inkscape, qCad,
>pstoedit, hp2xx, dxf2gcode, codeg, and probably some others I'm not
>remembering right now.  I have also reviewed every vector-based file
>format ever invented.  I consistently run into the same problem as I try
>to build a software tool chain: somewhere between the cad/drawing
>package and the g-code generator, one of the apps is converting arcs or
>splines to series of lines.
>
> In my most recent attempts, the source drawing (OOdraw or inkscape,
>exported to pdf, svg or dxf), has every corner radiused more than enough
>to allow for the tool to make the cut.  Unfortunately, I can't get those
>radiused corners all the way down to g-code as arcs.
>
> I am determined not to use windows, and also to avoid paying for
>software if I can manage it.  More as an experiment than anything else,
>but I'm an old-school open-source guy and I just figured there would be
>kickin' solutions for all this stuff in open-source space at this point.
>
> What am I missing?  How can I get a high-level 2d or 3d drawing 
> all the
>way down to emc2 in g-code such that arcs are represented as G2/G3 moves
>instead of series of G1 moves?
>
> Thanks!
>
>-Al


To get the G2/G3 moves you need to figure out where the arcs are getting 
converted to lines.
My guess is right at the export from the CAD program to DXF, there is 
usually an option in the program as to how this is handled.

What does the text in the DXF for a simple square look like?


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Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:15 PM 7/18/2007, you wrote:
>Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> >
> > The X,Y U,V wire EDM's I run have a set of what they call Z constants.
> > Z1 is the distance from the machine table to the point at which the X,Y
> > size is held true.
> > Z2 is the distance from the table to the point at which the feed rate is
> > held true.
> > Z3 is the distance from the table to the upper wire guide.
> > Z4 is the distance from the table down to the lower guide.
> >
> > Using this info the control can calculate the displacement of the U,V
> > slides from the X,Y to get the taper angle and the part size programmed in
> > the G code.
>Since these are all constant, there's no need to burden EMC with
>that.  You could put these values into the CAM software to
>calculate the correct XY UV to make the desired part.
>
>I suppose you could re-do the kinematics so it solves all this
>in EMC, but I'm not sure that is necessary or desirable.
>
>Jon

They are constant until you do some maintenance (could be just cleaning the 
guides) on the machine then you have to find new constants, opening that 
loop up back to some CAM software is going to introduce more potential errors.

Feed rates in wire EDMs are really just starting points for the control, 
you almost always run in adaptive mode where it tries to go as fast as 
possible.  As such the Z2 constant ends up being the point for which the 
actual feed rate is displayed to the operator.


Reposting and transfer to the CNC machine is slower then having family part 
macro subs in the control and letting the user simply change some sizes and 
run the next part.  The reason for doing things like this in the control is 
to keep the spindle turning as much as possible.  Break a tool, put in a 
new one edit the comp offsets and hit the green button.

Teaching the average CNC operator how to efficiently run a CAM package is 
not easy.  The chances of them making an error posting a new program are 
greater then if all they have to do is change an offset.


Taken to the extreme you can do everything in the CAM software and simplify 
EMC to just G0 G1, no need for G2,3 because the CAM can do it all with G1s, 
no need for tool offsets or cutter comp because the CAM software can do it, 
likewise for G81, 82, 83, etc. canned cycles.

Just telling how it works in controls that are found in machine tools 
around the world.
Yes there are shops that depend on CAM software for everything but they 
tend to not be running 3 min. or less finish op cycle times on pre-blanked 
parts with 1 to 5 parts per order, with the operator doing 50 to 100 orders 
per day.



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Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:48 PM 7/17/2007, you wrote:
>Chris Radek wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I thought I should mention that I merged my nine-axis changes into
> > the cvs trunk.  We now have fully coordinated motion in six linear
> > axes (UVWXYZ) and three rotary (ABC).
> >
>Cool!  DAMN cool!
>
>One of the quirks in the old days was how to program the rate of
>these mixed-axes moves.  For instance, in an XYA move, it is
>easy to compute the feedrate of the XY part, but without knowing
>the radius the cutter is at from the center of the A axis, you
>can't add that component to the total velocity.  How is this
>handled now?

The X,Y U,V wire EDM's I run have a set of what they call Z constants.
Z1 is the distance from the machine table to the point at which the X,Y 
size is held true.
Z2 is the distance from the table to the point at which the feed rate is 
held true.
Z3 is the distance from the table to the upper wire guide.
Z4 is the distance from the table down to the lower guide.

Using this info the control can calculate the displacement of the U,V 
slides from the X,Y to get the taper angle and the part size programmed in 
the G code.


> > Also, thanks to some work Jeff did, you can have any set of these
> > defined - whatever is appropriate for your machine.
>Again, definitely cool!
> > This ought to help with some simple things like knee vs quill on
> > mills (XYZW or XYZAW), as well as maybe being useful for some more
> > specialized setups like foam cutters (XYUV).
> >
>Yes, we definitely had a restriction for foam cutters and wire
>EDM, both of which use a pair of parallel X-Y axes.
>
>Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Activating edited tool table

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 04:00 PM 7/17/2007, you wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 03:41:26PM -0500, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> >
> > Is there a reload for the parameter table, the work offsets in particular?
>
>The interpreter reads and writes that file "when it needs to" and
>there's no need for the user to worry about it.  Just set the offsets
>with MDI commands (G10 L2 P) or the Touch Off operation in AXIS.



If you have ever setup and run a machine in a production setting using all 
the work offsets you would know that having to use MDI and G10 to do 
something as simple as bump a work offset a few 0.0001,s is not 
reasonable.  I have run machines where you have to adjust the work offsets 
up to 0.005 over the course of the first 3 hours every morning as the 
machine heats up, a 0.0001 or 2 every other part.  Better machines do not 
have as much thermal drift but on those machines you tend to be making 
closer tolerance parts so you still end up bumping the offsets thru the day.

Also near as I can tell there is not any way that a setup person can view 
local or global variables as the program runs making it difficult to debug 
macro programs or to even find out how many passes are left in a cut.


A page like this would make doing the more complex setups a lot easier.
And would get EMC a lot closer to the standard controls used in the 
machining industry, the graphics in Axis are way better then any control I 
have used but there are some areas that are very basic to using the control 
that have been left to work arounds.  Probably because they are not as fun 
to work on as the graphics areas.  I also get the feeling that the main 
programmers working on EMC have not spent a lot of time changing inserts 
and pushing the green button.


Mono spaced font and at least 80 columns before word-wrap
***
  _
|Work Offset Page 1 of 1 Spindle Control  |
|   S 1000  FWD REV STOP  |
| |
|  G92   5211-5219 G54   5221-5229G55   5241-5249G56   5261-5269  |
|  X +000.  1  X +000. 2  X +000. 3  X +000.  |
|  Y +000. Y +000.Y +000.Y +000.  |
|  Z +000. Z +000.Z +000.Z +000.  |
|  A +000. A +000.A +000.A +000.  |
|  B +000. B +000.B +000.B +000.  |
|  C +000. C +000.C +000.C +000.  |
|  U +000. U +000.U +000.U +000.  |
|  V +000. V +000.V +000.V +000.  |
|  W +000. W +000.W +000.W +000.  |
|__   |
|  Current Machine |   G57   5281-5289G58   5301-5309G59   5321-5329  |
|  X +000. |4  X +000. 5  X +000. 6  X +000.  |
|  Y +000. |   Y +000.Y +000.Y +000.  |
|  Z +000. |   Z +000.Z +000.Z +000.  |
|  A +000. |   A +000.A +000.A +000.  |
|  B +000. |   B +000.B +000.B +000.  |
|  C +000. |   C +000.C +000.C +000.  |
|  U +000. |   U +000.U +000.U +000.  |
|  V +000. |   V +000.V +000.V +000.  |
|  W +000. |   W +000.W +000.W +000.  |
|__|  |
|Setup Tool Offsets|  G59.1  5341-5349   G59.2  5361-5369   G59.3  5381-5389  |
|  X +000. |7  X +000. 8  X +000. 9  X +000.  |
|  Y +000. |   Y +000.Y +000.Y +000.  |
|  Z +000. |   Z +000.Z +000.Z +000.  |
|  A +000. |   A +000.A +000.A +000.  |
|  B +000. |   B +000.B +000.B +000.  |
|  C +000. |   C +000.C +000.C +000.  |
|  U +000. |   U +000.U +000.U +000.  |
|  V +000. |   V +000.V +000.V +000.  |
|  W +000. |   W +000.W +000.W +000.  |
|__|__|


A page like this would be useful for setting up a job in the 
machine.  There are nine work offsets wh

Re: [Emc-users] Activating edited tool table

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 10:54 AM 7/17/2007, you wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:24:59AM -0500, RogerN wrote:
> >
> > My File menu has Open, Reload, Properties, and Quit.  I tried editing my
> > .tbl file last night and reloaded, but my offsets did not change.  I
> > then exited and restarted EMC2 and the tool offsets were updated.
>
>My mistake. In versions 2.1.x "Reload tool table" is on the Machine
>menu.
>
> > I'm touching off my tool 1 to an X and Z position and seting it to zero.
> > Then I set each tool to the same X and Z and write down the displayed
> > position.  Next I open my .tbl file, edit the length and diameter, save.
> > Is this the normal procedure for tool offsets?  Is there another way?
>
>There are many ways I'm sure!  Sounds reasonable enough to me.


Is there a reload for the parameter table, the work offsets in particular?
__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Threading

[Andre' Blanchard]

Setting cutter comps to virtual (imaginary) point is commonly done and 
allows cutting the first part to within a few 0.001" of the programmed 
size.  We have a guy running a mill that often does setups resulting in a 
good first part with location and size tolerances of 0.0005".  Just setting 
work coordinates with an edge finder or by indicating on a hole or shaft, 
the tools are measured up offline and the tool comps set and the program run.
But then we have another guy who will always have oversize chamfers on his 
first part because he sets the tool length to the physical end of the spot 
drill and not the V-point.

By comping to the virtual point Roger can in effect cut to the pitch 
diameter which is what the wires are measuring.  It is harder to do without 
a magnified optical presetter and for threads it takes some practice.




At 03:00 PM 6/29/2007, you wrote:
>Roger:
>
>The actual depth of the thread is not really important. It is the angled 
>surfaces width that is. That is why measuring with 3 wires is the most 
>accurate. The wires only touch the angled sides of the thread. Actually 
>there is a formula for figuring out the best size of the wires as well. 
>But if just comparing threads, just use an appropriate size wire-meaning 
>you want the contact point close to the middle of the angled depth.
>In the machine shop I worked at we would measure the spindle nose thread 
>with 3 wires - machine a thread gauge (same as the spindle) confirming 
>it's size with the 3 wire method then would use that to test fit the 
>internal thread. we would stamp the gauge and keep it safe for next time!
>
>Of course if you have something handi that fits the spindle you could use 
>that to test fit while making the thread gauge-then you would not need to 
>measure at all-if you are careful. It all really depends on how good a fit 
>you need and how much time you want to spend and what you have for tools!
>
>Cheers
>Chris Morley
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:23:36 -0500
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Lathe Threading
> >
> > First of all, thank you developers for EMC and thank you John Kasunich
> > for getting the m5i20 threading working. I loaded the pre 2.1.7 version
> > and built it on my pc, the threading worked first try, I only had to
> > change my old latch-index to index-enable and then tested it out, I now
> > have a lathe pawn with threads!
> >
> > In wondering about setting up to cut threads, I thought perhaps I could
> > set my threading tool as if it came to a shap 0 radius point and thread
> > the full depth from that imaginary point. I drew a 60 degree point in
> > AutoCad, drew a line through the point, then applied different radius'
> > to the point. For a .008" radius cutting tool, there was .008" between
> > the tool tip and the line representing point, for a .0156" radius, there
> > was .0156" between the tool tip and "point", and so on. The tool tip
> > radius equaled the gap between the peak of the radius and the 0 radius
> > point.
> >
> > So, I was wondering if I used a threading tool with a .008" radius,
> > could I take a light test cut, measure the radius, add .008" set that as
> > the X position of that tool, then thread to the full thread depth. This
> > would put the imaginary 0" radius point at the full thread depth and
> > actual point .008" out from the full thread depth. This procedure could
> > be adapted for whatever tool tip radius you were using. If a test cut
> > wasn't practical, you could use feeler gages to set the tool, as long as
> > you knew the tool tip radius. Or perhaps there is an easier way I'm
> > overlooking :-)
> >
> > I plan to try this out, perhaps I could learn how to measure with the 3
> > wire method and see how close the threads came out. My goal is to come
> > up with a method that will give me the right thread depth with minimal
> > trial and error. I have a project of machining a back plate for an L&W
> > dividing head, the thread is 2-1/4 10tpi. I dread test fitting the
> > dividing head to the back plate!
> >
> > Roger Neal
> >

__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Threading

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:23 AM 6/29/2007, you wrote:
>trial and error.  I have a project of machining a back plate for an L&W
>dividing head, the thread is 2-1/4 10tpi.  I dread test fitting the
>dividing head to the back plate!
>
>Roger Neal
>

Make up a few simple rings from scrap and do a trial run or three.  Then 
when you know it is cutting the thread size you want do the back plate.
__
Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] O word extension

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 12:17 PM 6/20/2007, you wrote:
>Yes. I thought you would never ask. :-)
>
>The latest trunk does something like that.
>
>What it actually does:
>
>If an o-word is not found in the current file, it looks for a file named
>o.ngc in the current working directory. If it finds that, it searches
>the file for the oword and executes the oword subroutine. Otherwise it is an
>error.

May want to have it look in the current working directory and if not found 
there look in a dedicated directory, the location of which is defined in 
the setup file.



>The first time the oword is encountered, the file is scanned up to the point
>of the oword definition. Owords found along the way are added to the
>internal index. Subsequent calls of the oword do a direct seek into the file
>to avoid the linear scan of the file.

Does that mean it has to go to the hard drive every time a sub is called?
That could be slow if a sub or many subs are called from inside a while 
loop.  Would be much better to load all the subs into memory as the file is 
scanned.  Memory on a PC is cheap compared to a normal machine control may 
as well use it.




>The source file interp_o_word.cc contains a comment with the important
>contents: "// TESTME!!! !!!KL". This should be taken as an indication that
>the functionality should not be relied on until it undergoes more thorough
>testing. I DID test it though.

Someday maybe I will figure out how to get the full version for now all I 
have is the Live version. :(




>I believe that it is a side effect of this code that it is no longer
>necessary to define an oword subroutine earlier in the file than its use.
>The program will just do a linear scan until it finds the definition or
>generate an error at the end of file.

How about within the file O100.ngc if the sub O100 calls other subs defined 
within O100.ngc?
I would imagine they would have to be in order within O100.ngc.





>There are some 'funny' consequences of how things are done.
>
>Suppose the file o100.ngc has subroutines o100 and o101 defined in it in
>that order.
>
>If another file foo.ngc calls o100 and then o101, there will be an error
>because o101 will not be scanned since it occurs AFTER o100 in the file
>o100.ngc. If the order of subroutines in file o100.ngc is changed so that
>o101 occurs before o100 in that file, it will work fine.
>
>The best way to handle this is to define the subroutine o100 LAST in the
>file o100.ngc. Then, if any subroutines in that file are used, o100 should
>be called first. If you make o100 a dummy subroutine that does nothing, that
>will solve the problem.

I usually put subs at O8000s and O9000s because on most machines those 
numbers can be write protected independently of the rest of the programs in 
the control.
So if I had a file named O9000.ngc with all my standard subs in it and the 
last one was
   O9000 SUB
   (Do nothing)
   O9000 ENDSUB

My main program, in a different file, could start out with a call to O9000 
and then any sub defined in O9000.ngc could be used when needed.  That is 
effectively the same as an include command.


>[NOTE: A possible clean fix to this is to have symbolic (or possibly hard)
>links where o100.ngc, o101.ngc, o102.ngc, etc all point to the same file.
>The code would then have to test to see if a new file resolved to the same
>file as previously loaded files and in that case, just use the original
>file. At this time, it seems like a lot of work that isn't worth doing.]
>
>Ken
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
>55 Main Street   Voice: (888)ISO-SEVO (888)476-7386
>Newtown, CT 06470Fax: (203)426-9138
>http://www.MarkKenny.com



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[Emc-users] O word extension

[Andre' Blanchard]

On most CNC machines you can have multiple programs loaded up (registered) 
in the control at the same time and a sub call is really just calling 
another program.  So it is easy to keep any commonly used subs loaded in 
the control all the time and just call them when you need to.

With the way the sub call and definition works on EMC the subs have to be 
in the file with the program that calls them.  This makes it harder make 
changes to a sub that may be used by multiple programs.

Has anyone considered adding an O word such as?

   O- include [path/file]

So that common subs may be maintained in libraries and used buy any program 
that needs them.


Andre' B.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotation [Was] scaling G code

[Andre' Blanchard]

Say you have a 100 orders for shaped punches on your desk each for 1 or 2 
parts with cycle times of around 5 minutes, the only difference between 
them is the shape (obround, rectangle, hex, octagon, etc.) the sizes, and 
the orientation of the shape on the punch.

It is a lot faster to have a person stand at the mill, edit a few variables 
and run the program then it is to go the CAD/CAM send program to the 
machine route.  And it is a lot easier to train the machine operator to set 
variable
X1 to the shape number
X2 to the width
X3 to the length
X4 to the angle
then it is to train them to efficiently run CAD and CAM programs.  Then if 
the CNC program does just a little sanity checking on the values entered 
you can all but eliminate crashes, a simple tool length touch off switch 
will stop most of the rest.

Plus you do not need to have all those licenses for the CAD and CAM 
programs along with the yearly maintenance contracts and a fast enough 
computers all sitting by each mill which if you have 20 or 30 mills adds up 
to a lot of $$$ even if 2 or 3 mills can share a computer.

Is the reason for macro B and parametric programming on CNC machines.

And since I am used to that type of programming at work that is the way I 
will do it at home. :)
___
Andre' B.




At 08:46 PM 6/11/2007, you wrote:
I guess it depends on the type of work you are doing.

I see these types of tranforms being handled in the relm of the cad/cam
application.

But for drill circles or other canned cycles I can see the utility.

Perhaps I could have saved you some time over the weekend.  I have already
written a
program the can rotate g-code.   I have not tested it for all cases, but it
has worked
for the basic g-code that I do.

I'll post a link to it as soon as I get it up on my website.

__
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotation [Was] scaling G code

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:03 PM 6/8/2007, you wrote:
>Scaling g-code is easy.  Rotating g-code is easy.
>But I'm not certain that it's the job of the interpreter to do such things.
True but the interpreter does need the commands to control the a rotation.
There are two very different types of rotation, first is programmed 
rotation G68,G69 the second is parameter based rotation both have their uses.

Programmed rotation is the type of thing you use to make bolt hole circles, 
or within a sub that is run to cut some feature at many places on a part 
and some or all of those places need to have that feature orientated 
differently.  It is all done under control of the G code program, and is 
not in my experience active under manual control.

Parameter based rotation is what you do when you can't align a fixture to 
the physical machine axis, say there is some fixture on the machine that 
you do not want to remove and the only way the new job will fit is if it is 
turned just a bit this way.  You go into the machine parameters and setup 
the rotation and the G code program has nothing to say about it.  In effect 
you create a virtual machine coordinate system just like in Hex 
machines.  How to handle homing g28 g53 type commands is then the question.


>Sometimes times you may only want to scale in X,Y but not touch Z.
>In addition, scaling on the machine could run into problems with
>interference with
>existing workpiece jigging.

Not only that but there are time when you want to set different scales to 
X, and Y.  Program a 1" diameter circle then set the right X and Y scale 
factors origined on the center of the circle and you can make nice 
elliptical shapes of any needed size.

Interference with existing fixturing is always a problem with new setups 
but having more options available like scaling and rotation only makes it 
easier to make any new fixturing work with existing stuff.



Over the weekend I worked up a little work around for programmed rotation, 
its not a replacement for g69 g68 but it seems to work well enough to be 
useful.  It is a sub program that you call in place of G0, G1, G2, G3 
commands, the first parameter sets which G code is run, if that code is -1 
then no G code is run but the rotation is calculated and the results placed 
in variables #502 - #506.
The main program is just a little demo that uses all the g commands.






O9000 Sub
(Make a move in a rotated coordinate system)
(Also return rotated X,Y,I,J values)
(Valid G codes 0 or 1 or 2 or 3 or -1)
(  If -1 the G code will not be executed)
(  but the rotated values will be put in)
(  parameters #501 - #506)
(Works for G17 plane only)
()
(Parameters passed in)
(#1 G code)
(#2 X Position)
(#3 Y Position)
(#4 Z Position)
(#5 I Distance)
(#6 J Distance)
(#7 F Feed rate)
(#8 Rotation angle)
(#9 X center of rotation relative to current work offset)
(#10Y center of rotation relative to current work offset)
()
(Other local variables used)
(#30New angle)
(#29X side)
(#28Y side)
(#27H side)
(#11 --- #26 not used)
()
(Global variables return values)
(#501   X rotated)
(#502   Y rotated)
(#503   I rotated)
(#504   J rotated)
(#505   X current)
(#506   Y current)
(#507   Z current)
()
#8 = [#8 MOD 360]
()
(XY)
#29 = [#2 - #9]
#28 = [#3 - #10]
#30 = ATAN[#28] / [#29]
#27 = SQRT[[#29**2 + #28**2]]
#30 = [#30 + #8]
#501 = [[#27 * COS[#30]] + #9]
#502 = [[#27 * SIN[#30]] + #10]
(IJ)
#30 = ATAN[#6] / [#5]
#27 = SQRT[[#5**2 + #6**2]]
#30 = [#30 + #8]
#503 = [#27 * COS[#30]]
#504 = [#27 * SIN[#30]]
()
(Make move)
O1 IF [#1 EQ 1]
  G#1 X#501 Y#502 Z#4 F#7
O1 ELSE
  O2 IF [[#1 EQ 2] OR [#1 EQ 3]]
   G#1 X#501 Y#502 Z#4 I#503 J#504 F#7
  O2 ELSE
   O3 IF [#1 EQ 0]
G#1 X#501 Y#502 Z#4 F#7
   O3 ELSE
O4 IF [#1 EQ -1]
 (Do nothing)
O4 ELSE
 (Invalid G code do nothing)
O4 ENDIF
   O3 ENDIF
  O2 ENDIF
O1 ENDIF
(Update current position)
(The current position is only needed by G2 and G3 moves)
(Assumes that last move was made by this sub)
(with the same rotation angle)
#505 = #2   (Update current X)
#506 = #3   (Update current Y)
#507 = #4   (Update current Z)
O9000 EndSub




()
(**Main Program**)
()
(Test rotation)
()
G0G17G20G40G49G80G90
G92.1
G92.2
()
N1M1(FIRST TOOL)
(G0G53Z3)
G0G53Z0
T5M6
M1
G0G90G54X0.000Y0.000
S1000M3
G43Z1.000H2(M8)
()
(Rotate arrows and offset)
#1 = [360/60] (Rotate angle Step)
#2 = 0.1 (Z)
#3 = 0.000 (X Center)
#4 = 0.000 (Y Center)
#5 = [[360/#1] + 1] (Counter)
#6 = 0 (Current angle)
#7 = 0.0 (X Offset)
#8 = 0.0 (Y Offset)
#505 = 0 (Preset current)
#506 = 0 (Preset current)
o9000 CALL [0] [0.000] [0.000] [#2] [0] [0] [0.0] [#6] [#3] [#4]
G1Z#2F20.0
O1 WHILE [#5 GT 0]
  o9000 CALL [0] [0.000+#7] [0.000+#8] [#2] [0] [0] [0.0] [#6] [#3] [#4]
  o9000 CALL [1] [1.000+#7] [0.000+#8] [#2] [0] [0] [40.0] [#6] [#3] [#4]
  o9000 CALL [2] [1.000+#7] [0.000+#8] [#2] [0.005] 

Re: [Emc-users] scaling G code

[Andre' Blanchard]

Here is a programming manual for Mit 300 seres controls, rotation stuff 
starts at page 184 of the PDF 172 of the scanned book.  Its an old control 
but easy to use and it had a lot of options, and the manual is a free 
download. :)
http://www.meau.com/functions/dms/getfile.asp?ID=0100010046090

In case that link to the PDF does not work here is the page, book BNP-A2943 
should be second in the list.
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/DOWNLOADS/-search_results?SType=3&DocType=010&SessionNum=&UserID=&Division=00010&Opt1=Yes&submit1=Search&Family=&ManualType=0055

It does a fair job of describing the interactions of the rotation and 
workoffsets and other things.  Not the end all bible but a good place to start.
_
Andre' B.


At 03:43 AM 6/8/2007, you wrote:
>Greetings
>
>A modal scaling code (G51?) is certainly useful and fairly easy to define in
>terms of its effect on X, Y, Z etc. coordinates submitted to the
>interpreter. One does have to beware of what happens to arcs with unequal,
>say, X and Y factors.
>
>Rotation seems to me much more difficult to specify because of jogging and
>because of work offsets.
>
>Does the X jog move the table left and right or in such a way that only the
>X DRO alters?
>
>Is the rotation about 0,0,0 in the current cosys, the G54 cosys or the G53
>cosys? I think that funny things happen to datums whatever option is chosen.
>
>John Prentice
>
>From: "John Kasunich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] scaling G code
>
>
> > Jon Elson wrote:
> >> Ray Henry wrote:
> >>> Now fifw, it seems to me that it's time to modify the interpreter to
> >>> allow for a modal scaling g-code.
> >> Oh wow, cool idea!  If we're going to do that, 3-axis rotation
> >> would be a good thing to put in at the same time.  Then, you
> >> could scale/rotate the moves to fit the part, rather than try to
> >> align the part to the machine.  The "big boys" all have this,
> >> and the math is almost trivial and very localized.  You just run
> >> the time-honored translation matrix on all input coordinates.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >
> > You volunteering Jon?  That would be a good thing to work on while you
> > are at the CNC workshop.  ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Kasunich
>
>
>
>
>-
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[Emc-users] Text editor

[Andre' Blanchard]

I have been working with EMC2 Live that I installed not long ago, and I 
need a better text editor.
I have been trying to get used to vim but that thing requires a lot of 
typing just to do simple things like split a window.  I would like to be 
able to be typing along and decide I want to split the window and just hit 
a function key followed by a cursor key to specify horizontal or vertical 
and which side of the new boarder to put the cursor.  Same with moving a 
boarder function key, cursor to select the boarder to move and keep hitting 
the cursor keys to move it then just enter to get back to editing.  And 
splitting the current window should not affect the size of the other 
windows, just put a boarder thru the center.
Simple and accurate keystroke recording and playback would be a plus.  If 
you ever used Brief 3.1 from DOS that's what I am after.

The help files for vim seem to indicate a gvim may exist someplace, I get 
an error does not exist.  I assume it has some use for a mouse and basic 
things like loading a file without having to type a 200 character path and 
file name.
Found this today, but which one or do I need all of them, and will they 
install and run on the Live installation or will I need to download other 
packages.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/virtual/gvim

Is it just me or has the idea that a computer may exist without a web 
connection never occurred to most of the Linux community? :)

Thanks,
___
Andre' B.
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Re: [Emc-users] about the axes A and B

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 09:44 AM 6/2/2007, you wrote:
>On Sat, Jun 02, 2007 at 09:26:44AM -0500, Ray Henry wrote:
> >
> > There are places in the emc where specific relationships between linear
> > and rotary axes are defined
>
>Ray is right: EMC2 implements an XYZABC machine as the ngc spec
>describes it: the XYZ are linear and the ABC are angular.  However if
>you set your LINEAR_UNITS and ANGULAR_UNITS to the same value, you'll
>get behavior really close to what you want.
>
>For the nitty gritty details, have a look at
>
>http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode/main/index.html
>
>Especially note the "Feed Rate" section.  If you want to get a certain
>feed along the cut you might want to consider using inverse time feed
>mode in your generated gcode, since EMC doesn't understand the
>geometry of your machine.
>
>Chris

On all the controls I have worked with that had linear axes parallel to 
X,Y,Z they were labeled U,V,W these were wire EDM machines. On the machines 
I worked on the U,V axes were programmed as incremental distances from the 
programmed absolute X,Y position in the block, but that is not always 
true.  More often I just program the X,Y position and an angle and let the 
control figure out what to do with the U,V also have to tell the control at 
what Z position it is to hold the programmed X,Y correct.

___
Andre' B.
__
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Re: [Emc-users] Control Panel for Axis

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:01 AM 5/30/2007, you wrote:
>Jack Ensor wrote:
> > I plan on wiring momentary push button switches in parallel with the
> > appopriate short cut keys on the keyboard.  One of the problems I see is
> > that of providing  for the 2 key combination required for the Home-All
> > function. I assume that the key assignment can be changed in software
> > and hope someone can give me insight into how this could be done.
>
>Would a X-keys interface do it for you?
>
>Wayne
>--
>---
>   Wayne M Weedon Fdos Design Poole UK  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Tel +44-1202-677025  Fax +44-1202-770515 Mob 07774 439915  Skype fdosdesign
>
>   Specialists in small batch & Production Mechanical/Electrical Engineering
>---

Looks like these guys have some interesting look stuff also.
http://www.ultimarc.com/JShopServer/
__
Andre' B.

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Re: [Emc-users] user manual, image2g-code

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 11:47 AM 5/25/2007, you wrote:
>Hi.
>
>I'm a bit puzzeled about 23.4.12 (step over (pixels)).
>
>What exactly does the "step over distance" specify? I'm not a native
>speaker, so perhaps I don't understand the explanation good enough.
>(Hint: Graphics explaining the parameters would be great at some places)
>
>So, the explanation specifies that it is the distance between adjacent
>rows (or columns), but I still don't understand. Is it the number of
>pixels which are interpolated (or stepped over) per row the tool is
>going to travel?
>
>Also: Assuming that it is like I guessed above: I could imagine
>situations where you would want a tool to step in .05inch wide rows,
>while going along those rows in 0.005inch steps (i.e. resolution in X
>direction is higher than in Y direction).
>
>The screenshot shows a parameter named "Y step (pixels)" is that the
>aforementions step over?

I my opionion the words "row or columns" are not words a typilcal machinest 
would use but they are words a computer programmer would. ;)

Step over is the distance the tool is moved over between one pass (the word 
a machinest would think off) and the next, the amount of material being 
removed with the side of the end mill.



>And finally: I don't understand the lace bounding part. I understand
>that if an angle along an axis is lower than "Contact angle", it might
>get skipped. But what kind of angle is meant and what is meant by
>"skipping" it?
>
>Regards,
>Sven

I think I understand that part but not sure I can explain it. :(

As the tool is taking a cutting pass it may have to move up and down at 
some angle.  If that angle is small, evidently the tool is moved up to some 
safe height and that area is skipping with a rapid move.  Possibly saves 
some time when you are cutting the same part two times with the passes at 
90 deg. if the area is going to be cut with the other pass.  I am thinking 
that on a finish cut you may want it turned off so you get a uniform finish.

Mud or clear water thats the way I read it at this time. :)

__
Andre' B.
__
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Re: [Emc-users] TrueType Tracer

[Andre' Blanchard]

At 02:00 PM 5/24/2007, you wrote:
>On Thu, May 24, 2007 at 01:19:58PM -0500, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> > I found and downloaded this nifty looking program
> > (truetype-tracer_3.0-2_i386.deb) from Chris Radek's web page.  When I went
> > to install it on a recently installed EMC2 Live system it tells me the
> > program is already installed.
> >
> > So :( how do I run the program!!??
> > I found the executable but it seems reluctant to run.
>
>In a terminal, type `man truetype-tracer'.  In the man page are some
>examples and instructions.
>
> > And is there a list of all the little programs like this that come with 
> the
> > live install?
>
>I think that's the only one that's not strictly related to the EMC2
>install.  To see the input filters that do other fun stuff, be sure to
>run sim/axis and open an image file or python file (both are available
>in the sample files that come with the distribution).
>
>Chris

Thanks,

The DXF output will help out with a little project, making a headstone for 
a dog, I have access to a laser at work I just need to make up the text and 
graphics in a format the system will read.
___
Andre' B.
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[Emc-users] TrueType Tracer

[Andre' Blanchard]

I found and downloaded this nifty looking program 
(truetype-tracer_3.0-2_i386.deb) from Chris Radek's web page.  When I went 
to install it on a recently installed EMC2 Live system it tells me the 
program is already installed.

So :( how do I run the program!!??
I found the executable but it seems reluctant to run.

And is there a list of all the little programs like this that come with the 
live install?


Andre' B.
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[Emc-users] AXIS and programming

[Andre' Blanchard]

First off I have managed to get EMC2 Live loaded onto a computer and 
running.  Lots of changes since the last time I looked at EMC, I really 
like the graphics in the AXIS interface, makes debugging programs a lot easier.

I did translate a program that was running on a Fanuc control and got it to 
run on EMC.
A few things I had to change.  All with AXIS, I have not tried the others.

1.  I could not get the G28 position to work right.

2.  Had to remove the G68 G69 rotation from the program.

3.  Could not find a way to get to the tool comp numbers.  So had to put 
tool radius in a variable, #107

4.  Some funny stuff happening at the tool change, may be related to the G28.

5.  The work offsets seem to be ignored.  In the MDI panel the active codes 
displays G54 regardless of what is in the program and even changing the G54 
location in the .var file is ignored.  I found the reload tool table in the 
menu but could not find how to reload the variable table.


Question is there some place in the interface to see what the current 
values of variables are?

I find it handy to watch the numbers while the program runs to make sure 
the calculations are being done the way they were intended.  Also nice to 
watch pass counters to see how much is left to go, the graphics display 
also gives that info just not in a quantized form of a number.


Here is the program if you want to try it.

*** 




(MILL CONCAVE RADIUS)
(WORK ZERO)
(X AXIS CENTER OF PART)
(Y AXIS CENTER OF PART)
(Z AXIS TOP OF PART)
()
G0G17G20G40G49G80G90
G91G28Z0M5
(G69)(TURN OFF ROTATION)
()
#100=-1.(X START)
#101=1.(X STOP)
#102=2.000(RADIUS TO CUT)
#103=[90.0/30](ANGLE STEP SIZE)
#104=0.5000(DEPTH OF RADIUS FROM Z AXIS ZERO)
()
#105=3565(SPINDLE RPM)
#106=21.39(FEED IPM)
#109=2(TOOL BALL ENDMILL)
#110=59(WORKSTATION)
#107=0.1875(NOTE  TOOL RADIUS BECAUSE CAN NOT FIND EMC TOOL TABLE)
(#108=0.0)(PART ROTATION ANGLE)
()
(START AND END ANGLE SHOULD BE)
(BETWEEN 0 AND -180 AND THE)
(START ANGLE SHOULD BE)
(GREATER THEN THE END)
#111=45.0(START ANGLE OF RADIUS)
#112=-45.0(END ANGLE OF RADIUS)
()
(DO NOT EDIT AFTER THIS LINE)
()
N1M1(FIRST TOOL)
T#109M6
M1
G0G90G#110X0.000Y0.000
(G68X0.000Y0.000R#108)
S#105M3
G43Z1.000H#109(M8)
()
(NOTE  13000 IS THE START OF THE TOOL OFFSET TABLE  )
(  FOR THE FANUC NEED TO FIND THE EQUIVALANT IN EMC )
(#150=[-#[13000+#109]+#100])(X START POSITION)
(#151=[#[13000+#109]+#101])(X END POSITION)
()
(NOTE  FIND OUT WHY THIS NEXT LINE IS BAD??)
(#150=[-#107+#100])(X START POSITION)
(NOTE  THIS WORKS IT SHOULD WORK EITHER WAY)
#150=[#100-#107](X START POSITION)
#151=[#107+#101](X END POSITION)
#152=0.000(Y RADIUS CENTER)
#153=[#102-#104](Z RADIUS CENTER)
(#154=#102-#[13000+#109])(RADIUS AND END MILL)
#154=[#102-#107](RADIUS AND END MILL)
#155=#111(CURRENT ANGLE)
#156=[#152+[#154*SIN[#155]]](CURRENT Y)
G0X#150Y#156
()
(WHILE[#155GT#112]DO1)
O100 WHILE[#155GT#112]
#156=[#152+[#154*SIN[#155]]](CURRENT Y)
(#157=[#153-[#154*COS[#155]]-#[13000+#109]])(CURRENT Z)
#157=[#153-[#154*COS[#155]]-#107](CURRENT Z)
G1Y#156F#106
G1Z[#157+0.050]F75.0
G1Z#157F#106
G1X#151F#106
G1Z[#157+0.500]F75.0(RETRACT)
G0X#150
#155=[#155-#103](DECREMENT, COUNTER)
(END1)
O100 ENDWHILE
()
(LAST PASS)
#155=#112
#156=[#152+[#154*SIN[#155]]](CURRENT Y)
(#157=[#153-[#154*COS[#155]]-#[13000+#109]])(CURRENT Z)
#157=[#153-[#154*COS[#155]]-#107](CURRENT Z)
G1Y#156F#106
G1Z[#157+0.050]F75.0
G1Z#157F#106
G1X#151F#106
G1Z[#157+0.500]F75.0(RETRACT)
G0X#150
()
G0Z1.000M5
G91G28Z0M5
(G69)(TURN OFF ROTATION)
G91G28Y0
M30
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Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi.



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Re: [Emc-users] List archive link

[Andre' Blanchard]

Looks like they are in the header info of the message.  Using Eudora and it 
displays the header info when I open a message.


Here is part of that info from the message I just got from you.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] List archive link
X-BeenThere: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
List-Id: "Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)"
 
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>,
 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=emc-users>
List-Post: <mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>,
 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""



At 04:13 PM 5/18/2007, you wrote:
>Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The link to the archive as it is in the emails I get from the list, does
> > not work for me.
> > List-Archive: 
> <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=emc-users>
>
>Do you mean one of the links that are automatically added to the bottom
>of each list message?  Because I sure don't see that link in any
>messages I get from the list.
>
> > Here is the link to the archive from the web page,
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users it does work.
> > 
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=emc-users
> > __
> > Andre' B.  Wis.
> >
> > -
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>The above ^ is exactly what I see at the bottom of every list
>message.  The listinfo link leads to a page which has the correct
>archives link.  The incorrect link doesn't appear anywhere that I can see.
>
>Are you using digest mode?  Maybe the digest's have different links?
>Please copy and paste a sample that shows the incorrect link IN CONTEXT.
>I'll look into the problem once I understand what you are saying.
>
>Regards,
>
>John Kasunich
>
>-
>This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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>Emc-users mailing list
>Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Andre' B.  Clear Lake, Wi. 



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[Emc-users] List archive link

[Andre' Blanchard]

The link to the archive as it is in the emails I get from the list, does 
not work for me.
List-Archive: 

Here is the link to the archive from the web page, 
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users it does work.

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=emc-users



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Andre' B.  Wis. 



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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 Live

[Andre' Blanchard]

Thanks, Sounds like it is going to install the entire Live software to the 
hard drive, I was thinking it was just going to create a little data 
directory for the edited program files and variable tables and such while 
still booting and running off the CD. Not sure I want to do that to this 
laptop yet.  I was thinking it would be handy to use the laptop to write 
and debug some G code using the simulators, a little more portable then the 
big box.

So far I have only run the Axis interface and only a few times, looks like 
a lot has changed.


At 09:18 AM 5/18/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Andre.  It has been quite a while since I saw your name here.
>
>I've installed the Ubuntu, both 5 and 6 on several systems that had XP
>preinstalled.  Most of time the XP survived.  It does tend to startup in
>whatever XP considers a safe mode but lives okay after that first reboot
>to it.  By default if you say yes it will shrink the XP partitions to
>about half their original size.  Be sure to save any critical stuff to
>something else before you do the install.
>
>Ray
>
>
>On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 09:07 -0500, Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> > Hello
> > I looked at EMC a few years ago but other priorities got in the way of
> > hobbies before I could get hardware running. :)
> >
> > I have downloaded the live CD image and have burned a disk that will boot
> > on my HP laptop, which has Windows XP home on the hard drive.
> >
> > So far I have been answering NO to the question of creating a home
> > directory.  But I would like to try some of my own programs.
> >
> > What happens if I answer YES?
> > Will Windows survive?
> > Can the home directory be on a USB drive?  How big does it need to be?
> >
> > I do have an older computer I will try to install the Live disk to, but if
> > I remember correctly I could not get the BDI version to install on it, I
> > think it was some problem with the video card.
> >
> > I will be away from phone lines and the web for the weekend but hopefully
> > will have some time to play around with the simulators some more.
> >
> >
> > __
> > Andre' B.  NW Wis.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>-
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[Emc-users] EMC2 Live

[Andre' Blanchard]

Hello
I looked at EMC a few years ago but other priorities got in the way of 
hobbies before I could get hardware running. :)

I have downloaded the live CD image and have burned a disk that will boot 
on my HP laptop, which has Windows XP home on the hard drive.

So far I have been answering NO to the question of creating a home 
directory.  But I would like to try some of my own programs.

What happens if I answer YES?
Will Windows survive?
Can the home directory be on a USB drive?  How big does it need to be?

I do have an older computer I will try to install the Live disk to, but if 
I remember correctly I could not get the BDI version to install on it, I 
think it was some problem with the video card.

I will be away from phone lines and the web for the weekend but hopefully 
will have some time to play around with the simulators some more.


__
Andre' B.  NW Wis. 



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