Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 4:11 PM, doug metzler wrote:

> I cast my vote for Notepad++ :-)
>
> http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
>
> DougM
>
>
I happen to have a windows box, with notepad++. I know nothing about it's
plugin architecture, but I'm sure I can find out. Let me take a look.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:39 AM, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:

> I haven't looked at that particular file, but I can point out a few
> things that were "interesting" when making the gedit hilighter.  (I
> didn't do it, but I did help out somewhat in the form of IRC
> conversations with the person who did the actual work)
>
> 1) Whitespace is irrelevant to the G-code parser.  "X12.34" is identical
> to "X1 2. 3 4" in EMC.
>

Yes, I'm thinking about this. I doubt it's worth the effort of parsing
numbers that have embedded spaces. Do people actually do this? Spaces after
the axis letters should be handled though.


> 2) G-code is case insensitive.  I noticed in the lisp snippet that you
> have various keywords in all caps and all lower case, but not mixed
> case, which is also legal in EMC.  So any of "and", "anD", "aNd", "aND",
> "And", "AnD", "ANd", and "AND" are valid G-code.
>

Yes, it's not pretty. I could write a function that would expand a keyword
into all possible combinations of upper and lower case, but that's probably
going too far. Maybe I should just add a version where the first letter is
capitalized. My personal opinion is that if someone writes 'aNd' they
probably didn't intend it, so it would be helpful if it showed up in a
different color. But I don't know much about how G-Code is normally written
and used, so I'm prepared to be corrected.


> 3) My opinion is that the numbers should be colored differently than the
> words they go with.  so in G0X12.34, G should be one color, the two
> numbers "0" and "12.34" should be another color, and "X", being an axis
> word, should be a different color.  I don't know if the code is capable
> of doing that, since the screenshot shows codes and numbers as having
> one style (like "g0")
>

This can be fixed, I'm looking at it. Also, I'm going to recognize line
numbers separately, and make them light grey so they don't stand out so
much, based on the files Jack sent, which have thousands of line numbers and
appear very cluttered. This is exactly what syntax highlighting is supposed
to help with.
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Jack Coats  wrote:

> http://www.cncgadgets.com/cncfree/Aztec-Mayan%20Calendar%20G-code.zip
> Has a freely available Aztec/Myan type Calendar.  A bit over 11MBytes I am
> told.
>
> Is that sufficient?
>
> I found it by doing a Google search for "aztec calendar g-code" and
> CNCZone where I found this
> link a is free forum.
>
> ><> ... Jack


Thanks Jack. This file uncovered some deficiencies with my highlighter, so
back to the drawing board.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:53 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 24 January 2011 16:29, Neil Baylis  wrote:
> >
> > here<
> http://pixpopuli.blogspot.com/2011/01/syntax-highlighting-for-cnc-g-code.html
> >
>
> I have a feeling that XYZABCUVW and F should possibly be treated as
> "commands" and highlighted specifically. I am not at all sure how you
> would do that, though.
>
>
Does F have a usage other than for feedrate? The code highlights F in that
case.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Neil Baylis  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Ed Nisley wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2011-01-23 at 12:23 -0800, Neil Baylis wrote:
>> > large or complex g-code files
>>
>> The programs I've been writing for my Along the G-Code Way columns in
>> Digital Machinist aren't all that large, but they do exercise some
>> EMC2-specific language features. The more recent ones will probably be
>> the most useful.
>>
>> They're tucked into the ZIP files at:
>>
>> http://www.digitalmachinist.net/downloads
>
>
> Great, thanks Ed, that's a good resource.
>
>
>>
>> Which text editor are you targeting?
>>
>
> I'll start with Emacs, because that's what I'm most familiar with. If that
> goes well, then I will look at vi. If there's demand, I would consider other
> editors as well, but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet ;-)
>
>
> Neil
>

This is completed, turned out to be easier than I expected. According to the
EMC Wiki, there is already G-Code syntax highlighting for Vim and Gedit, so
I don't think I need bother with any other editors. You can see how the
Emacs version looks
here<http://pixpopuli.blogspot.com/2011/01/syntax-highlighting-for-cnc-g-code.html>
.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Ed Nisley  wrote:

> On Sun, 2011-01-23 at 12:23 -0800, Neil Baylis wrote:
> > large or complex g-code files
>
> The programs I've been writing for my Along the G-Code Way columns in
> Digital Machinist aren't all that large, but they do exercise some
> EMC2-specific language features. The more recent ones will probably be
> the most useful.
>
> They're tucked into the ZIP files at:
>
> http://www.digitalmachinist.net/downloads


Great, thanks Ed, that's a good resource.


>
> Which text editor are you targeting?
>

I'll start with Emacs, because that's what I'm most familiar with. If that
goes well, then I will look at vi. If there's demand, I would consider other
editors as well, but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet ;-)


Neil
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[Emc-users] G-Code files needed

[Neil Baylis]

If anyone has any large or complex g-code files they can share, please let
me know. I'm working on syntax highlighting for editing g-code, and need
some files to test it with.

Thanks,

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] FCM8201,2 and IRAMS

[Neil Baylis]

I don't think you can use the Fairchild part to drive a servo motor with
sinusoidal commutation, because it uses a PLL to compute the phase angle.
This implies they expect it to be continually running, and not changing
direction.

Neil

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > Has anyone used one of these:
> > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FC/FCM8201.pdf
> >
> >
> OH MY!  Under $4 at Digi-Key.  This looks like it might make a fairly
> simple way to drive a motor in sinusoidal mode, with a PWM signal providing
> a torque command.  Quite a FIND, thanks!
>
> On the other hand, the data sheet is REALLY sparse about how the thing
> really
> works in "stand alone" mode, how the PWM input really controls the output
> pulse widths, etc.  I wonder if there is another document that details
> how the
> chip really works?
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - email recommendations

[Neil Baylis]

I don't think there's a better client than Thunderbird for Linux. I used it
at the job I just got laid off from and it was great. But at home, I just
use gmail because it makes so many things easy.

I read Usenet via google groups, which is suboptimal but I don't spend much
time reading usenet any more because of too much spam. (Of course, the spam
could be because I read it via google groups, so vicious circle there..)

Sorry there's not better news.

Neil

On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 10:10 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Well, this is quite off-topic, but I just went through HELL with my
> Thunderbird email client.
> It has been acting flaky for a while, with about 2-minute hangups every
> now and then.  When it does this, the CPU utilization goes to 100% for
> the duration.  Now, suddenly, these delays are 8 minutes long!  This is
> with Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 on a 1.7 GHz pentium 4 just updated to 2 GB of
> memory.
>
> I tried to update to Thunderbird 3.1.1, and the delays with that are 67
> minutes long!
>
> I have a HUGE number of emails stored in many folders going back to
> 1997, and also have newsgroup folders for such as
> rec.crafts.metalworking.  My newsgroup service has everything going back
> to 2003, so there are 600,000 message headers
> for the R.C.M. group alone.  I think Thunderbird is constantly
> "indexing" this stuff for some reason, although I have tried to
> turn off EVERYTHING possible that I don't need.
>
> So, what do others use for email and newsgroups on Linux systems?  I'd
> need something that could import the mail files
> from Thunderbird.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Analog inputs, how to capture them

[Neil Baylis]

Here's a USB interface with general purpose I/Os. A friend of mine has one,
and says it's great.

http://www.starting-point-systems.com/specs.html
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Re: [Emc-users] D510MO + Mesa 7I43

[Neil Baylis]

On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tom Easterday  wrote:

> For those that haven't done it.  It is quite easy

... snip

>
> 9) Some shells come with a strain relief piece.  You bend the cable around
> under it and it clicks in to provide the strain relief
> http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/ribbon/IMG_2541.jpg
>
>
Note, that if your  connector has this type of strain relief, it's usually
better to have the cable enter from the 'wrong' direction in step 5.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] D510MO + Mesa 7I43

[Neil Baylis]

>
>
> Make them.  The materials are relatively inexpensive and they are really
> easy to make.  You don't need a special tool, a vise or even careful
> application of pliers are enough.  That way you can make them exactly the
> length you need.
>
>
I use my drill press, without a drill in the chuck, to press down and crimp
the connectors. Works great. If the connector is long, I put a scrap of
metal on top for the press to bear down on and distribute the load.

When I bought this cheap-ass Chinese drill press, I assumed I would be using
it to drill holes. Turns out it's not so good at that.. especially if you
want the holes to be round. I'm glad I finally found something it's good at.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] inches or metric

[Neil Baylis]

Although they recommend against it, you can actually edit the grub.cfg file
just as you previously edited the menu.lst file. If you subsequently do
update-grub, your changes will be overwritten.

Neil

On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Erik Christiansen  wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 04:49:35PM -0500, Dave Christman wrote:
> > On 12/18/2010 4:05 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On 18 December 2010 20:55, Kirk Wallace
>  wrote:
> > >
> > >> A common problem with the install script is that the original Linux
> will
> > >> boot instead of real time Linux.
> > > It should be possible to see which kernel has booted with
> > >
> > > uname -r
> > >
> > > If you don't see -rtai at the end of the kernel version then you
> > > probably need to beat grub up a bit.
> > >
> > The response to uname -r from the terminal window is 2.6.32-26 generic.
> > What is a grub, and how do I beat it up?
>
> To make it more interesting, recent ubuntu versions have switched from
> grub to grub2. Editing the config to change the default kernel image has
> changed, as has the name and location of the input file.
>
> If you're on lucid, then you should have grub2. Try 'man grub2', as a
> quick test. Also 'ls /etc/default/grub'. With grub2 confirmed, the
> method is to edit /etc/default/grub , then run update-grub, which
> updates /boot/grub/grub.cfg
>
> There are more details here than you'd perhaps like:
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2
>
> Cutting to the chase, there's HOWTO guff here:
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2#/etc/default/grub
>
> under the heading "Configuring GRUB 2", and there's even mention of a
> GUI way to do it, if you're into that sort of thing.
>
> OR:
>
> If you have the older grub, then there's 98 pages of manual here:
>
> www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.pdf
>
> (ISTR that the config file had another name (menu.lst?), and could be
> edited directly. It's a while since I've used it, so details are fading
> from DRAM.)
>
> Hopefully that get's you well under way. (It's a lot easier than it
> looks.)
>
> Erik
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Laser control

[Neil Baylis]

So presumably, I could also use M67 or M68 to control the laser power as
well. Let me see how to configure my hal code for that.

Thanks,

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Laser control

[Neil Baylis]

>
>  synchronized with the motion.
>
> yes, exactly
>
> this is why in my gluing machine I use M62->M65 to control the glue valve.
> I think here the problem is similar when you need to turn on/off the
> laser while moving.
>
> see :  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65
>
> If I was to program M64 immediately followed by M65, how long would the
> output be on for?


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Re: [Emc-users] Expansion of EMC

[Neil Baylis]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Don Stanley wrote:

> To All Responders;
>

snip...

Remember you can't sell EMC, but you can sell your services, your
> documentation
> and your electrical/electronic and mechanical products.
>

Why can't you sell EMC?

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Re: [Emc-users] Live CD Parport mode 4 problem - Solved

[Neil Baylis]

It's the parallel port of the motherboard of a Dell Optiplex GX280, FYI.

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> you didn't say what epp io board you're using, but getting emc to come
> up generally means there's been positive comminication between pc and
> bosrd using epp, so you're probably in the clear.
>
> jeff
>
>
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[Emc-users] Can't update some packages

[Neil Baylis]

After the software update I just performed, there were 3 packages that
failed to update:

libssl0.9.8  0.9.8k-7ubuntu8  -->  0.9.8k-7ubuntu8.4
openssl0.9.8k-7ubuntu8   ->  0.9.8k-7ubuntu8.4
linux-libc-dev  2.6.32-24.39 --> 2.6.32-26.47

When it tries to fetch the new version, the package can't be found.

They all have multiple dependencies, so I'm reluctant to try removing and
reinstalling them.

Anyone else seen such a problem? This is probably the first update I've done
since installing from the live CD.

Oh.. wait a minute: am I still supposed to avoid taking updates from Ubuntu?
I just told it to update everything that was out of date, which was about
140 packages. I seem to remember at some point there was guidance to the
effect that EMC installations should not take Ubuntu updates.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Live CD Parport mode 4 problem - Solved

[Neil Baylis]

I upgraded to EMC 2.4.6, and it no longer complains about the parallel port.
Haven't been able to test any further yet, but I think if it gets this far,
it should work OK.

Neil


On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Neil Baylis  wrote:

> OK, thanks Jeff. I was off list for a while, so I missed those earlier
> discussions. I'll check them out, and see if I can get it sorted.
>
> Neil
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Jeff Epler  wrote:
>
>> Yes, the parport stuff has changed between emc2.3 and emc2.4 and there
>> are also differences between an 8.04 installation and a 10.04
>> installation.
>>
>> In emc 2.3 and earlier, emc's parport drivers would not cooperate with
>> the linux parport drivers, so the linux driver was disabled by default.
>>
>> In emc 2.4, emc gained the ability to cooperate with linux's parport
>> driver.  The anticipated benefit was primarily to make it easy to
>> specify pci parports, because you can call them parport 1, 2 and so on
>> instead of 0xe800 or a raw port address.  so systems that are initially
>> installed with 2.4 leave linux parports enabled ny default (but 2.3 to
>> 2.4 upgrades don't, I think)
>>
>>
>> We also hoped for better detection of epp-supporting parports, but this
>> has proven to be untrue.  See the long "d510mo" threads for more on
>> this.  the "mode 4" message is related to this--linux thinks your port
>> is not epp-capable.
>>
>> in the latest release, 2.4.5, I think the problems working in
>> cooperation with linux are solved,  but if not, your final option is to
>> disable theb linux parport driver by editing the file
>> /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 or emc2.conf and removing a #.  reboot after doing
>> this, and linux will get out of the way of emc's use of the parport.
>> (of this does turn out to be necessary, let us know--we may be able to
>> find a solution, like we did for d510mo)
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Live CD Parport mode 4 problem

[Neil Baylis]

OK, thanks Jeff. I was off list for a while, so I missed those earlier
discussions. I'll check them out, and see if I can get it sorted.

Neil

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> Yes, the parport stuff has changed between emc2.3 and emc2.4 and there
> are also differences between an 8.04 installation and a 10.04
> installation.
>
> In emc 2.3 and earlier, emc's parport drivers would not cooperate with
> the linux parport drivers, so the linux driver was disabled by default.
>
> In emc 2.4, emc gained the ability to cooperate with linux's parport
> driver.  The anticipated benefit was primarily to make it easy to
> specify pci parports, because you can call them parport 1, 2 and so on
> instead of 0xe800 or a raw port address.  so systems that are initially
> installed with 2.4 leave linux parports enabled ny default (but 2.3 to
> 2.4 upgrades don't, I think)
>
>
> We also hoped for better detection of epp-supporting parports, but this
> has proven to be untrue.  See the long "d510mo" threads for more on
> this.  the "mode 4" message is related to this--linux thinks your port
> is not epp-capable.
>
> in the latest release, 2.4.5, I think the problems working in
> cooperation with linux are solved,  but if not, your final option is to
> disable theb linux parport driver by editing the file
> /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 or emc2.conf and removing a #.  reboot after doing
> this, and linux will get out of the way of emc's use of the parport.
> (of this does turn out to be necessary, let us know--we may be able to
> find a solution, like we did for d510mo)
>
> Jeff
>
>
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[Emc-users] Live CD Parport mode 4 problem

[Neil Baylis]

I have a multi-boot setup, so I can boot my original 8.04 liveCD
installation, or my new 10.04 version. With the 10.04 version, I'm getting a
complaint at startup that the parallel port doesn't support mode 4. I don't
see this on the 8.04 version. It's the same computer, with the same .ini
file, connected to the same external hardware.

As yet I don't know if this causes any problem in operation. I'll know that
within the next couple of days.

Is this something new that was added?

Neil
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[Emc-users] Laser control

[Neil Baylis]

What's the best strategy for controlling a laser?

My machine uses 2 axes to move the laser optic to the right position. I've
got this much working satisfactorily. Now I need to control the laser power.
I was planning to use a 3rd axis for this, let's call it Z.

My plan was to use the sign of the Z position to control the laser-enable
signal, and the magnitude of the Z position to control the laser power. But
maybe this is a stupid idea... I don't know.

For example, let's say I wanted to cut/burn a dashed line. It would be
preferable if the optic could keep moving at a constant speed, and the beam
would just turn on and off at the appropriate positions. Would I be able to
do that if the beam was controlled by the Z axis position?

This thing moves pretty fast.. maybe 25 to 30 inches per second, and I'm not
sure if I'll be able to turn the beam on and off with enough precision.

Later, I'll need to compensate for the linear velocity of the optic, so that
it burns with less power when it is moving slowly. This will require
computing the real-time velocity vector in x-y space and using that to
control the laser power.

Neil
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[Emc-users] Any advantage to using a lightweight window manager?

[Neil Baylis]

I'm about to install EMC on another machine (Dell Optiplex) and was
wondering if anyone has found benefits from installing a lightweight window
manager (e.g. xfce, lxde, or even twm) instead of Gnome? I've used this
machine successfully for EMC before, so I know it works.

Also, is there any benefit to be had from installing a lightweight distro
(e.g. Arch) rather than Ubuntu?

(Yes, I understand that if I don't use the approved Ubuntu/Emc distro, I'll
have to integrate RTAI myself etc.)

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Compatibility with small touchscreens?

[Neil Baylis]

Just wanted to mention an alternative, since you have an iPhone.

There's a great app available for iPhone called touchOSC. It was built for
using the iPhone as a controller for musical devices, such as synthesizers,
drum machines, samplers, etc. It comes with a bunch of inbuilt control
panels, as well as the ability to define your own control panels.

I have a plan to use it to control my laser machine, which runs with EMC. I
have some prototype code to receive the UI events from touchOSC, but have
not integrated anything into EMC yet.

There's a public domain C library that is widely used for sending and
receiving OSC protocol, called "liblo" and that what I'm using initially.
Ultimately, my laser application will be written in Common Lisp, so I will
probably abandon liblo in favor of a lisp library.

Anyway, for controlling music devices, it works very well. I have no doubt
that it will also work for some EMC systems, depending on the particular
needs.

Neil

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Colin Kingsbury wrote:

> I'm looking at trying to build a homebrew version of a dedicated controller
> with an integrated keyboard, MPG, and touchscreen. On the touchscreens,
> I've
> been looking at some of the 7-8" units originally made for in-dash DVD
> players, Lilliput seems to be a common name for the hardware and I've read
> about touchkit as being the main driver for using these 4/5-wire
> resistive-interface screens with Ubuntu. There seems to be a choice of
> serial and USB interfaces.
>
> Before I go out and buy a bunch of hardware that doesn't play well, does
> anyone have any words of wisdom on what I should or shouldn't look at? For
> reference, this is the sort of unit I'm thinking about:
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Lilliput-EBY701-NP-C-T-7-VGA-Touch-Screen-1-Year-Warr-/300444259217?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0
>
> * And yes, I realize a 7" screen will have lower resolution than my iPhone
> 4... I'm looking to build a panel with illuminated modal switches and
> generally see about moving some stuff off the screen.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] an exciting new setup: generated tach signal

[Neil Baylis]

Chris,

would you care to hazard a guess at how much phase shift you see from the
7i48 input to the velocity input at the servo amp?

Neil

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Chris Radek  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a VMC with low inertia servos and 25 amp 270 volt velocity mode
> servo amps.  It has tachometers and 1/25400 inch (micron) resolution
> rotary encoders on the motors.
>
> I have been struggling with a bad tachometer on Y for a while now - it
> would come and go - and when people started talking again about
> generating tach signals for retrofitting Fanuc setups that don't have
> real tachometers, I got interested.
>
> I was out of DAC outputs, so I got a second servo interface board
> (7i48, which is a Mesa product that has six DACs and six differential
> encoder inputs, and is newly supported in EMC2/git-master).
>
> The hostmot2 Mesa driver has a high quality encoder velocity output
> that it generates based on high resolution timestamps on encoder
> edges.
>
> In HAL, I hooked this velocity output directly to a new DAC and set
> the DAC scaling so that rapid speed will give an output around 9
> volts.  I wired the DAC output directly to the servo amp in place of
> the tachometer.
>
> This voltage is a lot lower than the real tachometer generates, but
> the servo amp has a gain control and it was very easy to set the amp
> accordingly.
>
> I'm happy to report that the motion on Y is smoother than I have ever
> heard it.  This machine rapids (I have it set conservatively) at 7.5
> inch/sec and 30 inch/sec2 acceleration.
>
> Adjusting the tunings (amp and EMC) just a bit, I was quickly able to
> get following errors within about 10 encoder counts (0.0005 inches)
> during accelerations to rapid speed, and virtually nil (a count or
> two) during cruises/cuts.
>
> I think this is awesome and send thanks to Peter W for his cool
> products and hostmot2 work and Seb K for his hostmot2 driver work.  I
> have every reason to believe that machines with these generated
> velocity signals and "missing" tachs are not a problem for EMC2 +
> Mesa.
>
> Chris
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Quieting The Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) Noise. How To.

[Neil Baylis]

Why would they call that a reactor, rather than an inductor?

Neil

On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> I have seen reactors used to quiet a vfd. A reactor is merely a coil of
> wire.
>
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Andy Pugh  >wrote:
>
> > On 27 July 2010 21:43, Don Stanley  wrote:
> >
> > > The solution was a 5% KDR filter from TCI in Milwaukee Wi in the VFD
> > > output.
> >
> > I suspect some ferrite beads on the output lines helped with my rather
> > troublesome VFD noise problem. Though I also added an input filter and
> > shielded power cables at the same time, so don't have the data to
> > deconvolve the various effects.
> >
> > The input filter was initially troublesome, tripping the ELCB in the
> > main supply. The solution I found was to power the VFD through a
> > zero-crossing SSR controlled by EMC2. As the mains voltage is always
> > zero at switch-on there is no current spike into the filter caps, and
> > no tripping of the breaker. So far it has been a 100% success for
> > about a year.
> >
> > --
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> >
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Re: [Emc-users] How to create custom kinematics module?

[Neil Baylis]

If atan2() returns a negative result, add 360 degrees (or the equivalent in
radians) to the result.

Neil

2010/6/11 Viesturs Lācis 

> 2010/6/11 Przemek Klosowski :
> >> 1 #include "rtapi_math.h"
> >> 2 #include "kinematics.h"   /* these decls */
> >> 3
> >> 4 const double head_offset = 200;
> >> 5
> >> 6 PmCartesian old;
> >> 7
> >> 8 in t kinematicsForward(const double *joints,
> >> 9 EmcPose * pos,
> >> 10const KINEMATICS_FORWARD_FLAGS * fflags,
> >> 11KINEMATICS_INVERSE_FLAGS * iflags)
> >> 12 {
> >> 13 double xy_tan = atan2(pos->tran.y - old.y,pos->tran.x - old.x);
> >> 14 pos->tran.x = joints[0] - head_offset * sin(joints[5]);
> >> 15 pos->tran.y = joints[2] + head_offset * sin(joints[4]);
> >> 16 pos->tran.z = joints[3] + cos(joints[4]) * cos(joints[5]) *
> head_offset;
> >> 17 pos->a = asin(sin(joints[4]) / cos(xy_tan));
> >> 18  if xy_tan = 90 + (180 * i), where i is not 0, but is 1, 2, 3, etc
> >> or -1, -2, -3, -4 etc
> >> 19  then pos->a = asin(sin(joints[5]) / sin(xy_tan));
> >>
> > OK, but what is 'i'? or are you saying that the test is for
> > (xy_tan-90) being an integer multiple of 180? without understanding
> > your geometry, this doesn't make immediate sense to me...
> >
>
> If You recall trignometry from elementary school, tangent values (just
> like for sin and cos functions) repeat every 180 degrees. For example
> tangent of 45 degrees is 1. Just like it is for 225, 405 etc. General
> way to write it is tan(45 + 180*i) = 1, where i is integer - 1, 2, 3,
> 4, 5 etc.
> Actually I seem to have made this bit more complicated as necessary -
> for me xy_tan should be in range from 0 to 359 (including both of
> these numbers), so instead of writing "90 + (180 * i)", I could have
> said "90 or 270".
>
> By the way, how should I limit the xy_tan in the mentioned range from 0 to
> 359?
>
> For example, for deltaX = 1, deltaY = -1 in Excel for atan2 function I
> get value -45 degrees, while I would like it to be 315. This way each
> position for xy_would be described with only one possible value
> instead of several. Like in the given example, it can be -45 or +315
> etc.
>
> >
> > because you whip the value of pos->a betweenthe values based on joints[5]
> and
> > joints[4]--normally I would expect the pos values to be continuous.
> >
>
> Just to make sure that I understand You correctly - do You see the
> probpos->a = asin(sin(joints[5]) / sin(xy_tan));lem in the fact that I
> want to switch from this formula pos->a = asin(sin(joints[4]) /
> cos(xy_tan)); to this formula pos->a = asin(sin(joints[5]) /
> sin(xy_tan));?
>
> If this is the case, then how should I treat the situation that for
> xy_tan values 90 and 270 the cos(xy_tan) = 0 and dividing by zero is
> error. How to solve that? In those situations the nozzle will be
> moving along Y axis and all the tilt should be "in joint[5]", joint[4]
> should be in its zero point. So in this situation joint[4] = 0, but
> pos->a must not be zero. The same situation is for xy_tan values 0 and
> 180 - joint [5] should be in its zero point and all the tilt should be
> "in joint[4].
>
> Are there any suggestions?
>
> Just to remind - I am trying to implement kinematics, where cutting
> head with A and B rotary axis (rotating around X and Y axis
> respectively) are behaving as a cutting head with A and C rotary axis
> (rotating around X and Z axis respectively) where A angle (amount of
> the tilt of the head) is given in g-code, but C is calculated as a
> tangent of the head movement, so that direction of tilt is ALWAYS
> perpendicular to direction of movement.
>
> It seems to me that I have managed implementation of calculating the
> tangent, and that the struggle is with transforming these A-C style
> kinematics into A-B style cutting head.
>
>
> 2010/6/11 yann jautard :
> >
> >
> > Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> >>
> >> 1) What would correct syntax for line 18 and 19 look like?
> >>
> > could be something like :
> >
> > 18 for (int i=1; i< limit; i++){
> > 19  if (xy_tan == (90+(180*i)) || xy_tan == (90-(180*i)))
> > 19  pos->a = asin(sin(joints[5]) / sin(xy_tan));
> > 20  }
> >
> > where limit is the maximal value I can take.
> > this code is not optimised, because for large "limit" value, il will
> > take a long time to iterate. But should work right for a limit value of
> > 5 or 10.
> >
>
> Thank You for the code!, I will try it.
>
> with best regards,
> Viesturs
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

Dave,

do they use the optical strip transitions to time the firing of the ink
droplets, or is it only used to control the print head?

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Dave Caroline
wrote:

> I was the coder for a version of printer based on the Canon A1210 and
> later the PJ1080 they were very early ink jets from the mid 1980's,
> they had servo drive and optical strip and we drove them as fast as
> possible but were limited by the possibility of burning out the motor.
> The optical strip had had two images the one for the servo
> loop(regular bars) and the other for home at each end.
> Just had to look at my old code to remind myself. Bugs did have the
> unfortunate bang when ther head hit the end stop the anti copy code I
> put in messed with the timing and a large bang was the result, it kept
> the ripoff merchants at bay.
>
> Dave Caroline
>
> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Neil Baylis  wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Peter C. Wallace 
> wrote:
> >
> > Umm, not any more, all the inkjets I've seen are really cheap servo
> systems
> >> (battery toy type motors and a linear mylar strip encoder)
> >>
> >
> > Yes, they really cut the cost out of these things. The motors generally
> > don't have ball bearings, just bushings. The worst kind of  motor to use
> > with continuous radial loads, but there ya go, that's what they use.
> >
> > One printer I recently gutted (Canon, I think) had no feedback at all.
> There
> > was just a simple DC motor to drive the carriage. They were depending on
> the
> > motor moving at constant speed with constant voltage, I guess. No limit
> > switches, either. Perhaps they monitor motor current to know when it's at
> > the limit.
> >
> >
> >> I think homing against a stop is OK with a torque controlled system
> (move
> >> slow
> >> and limit torque when homing) If your encoder has an index then this
> would
> >> give an accurate home.
> >>
> >
> > Actually, I hadn't thought of that. My encoder does have an index, but I
> > don't have torque control. The drive does have a current limit, so maybe
> I
> > could use that.
> >
> >
> >> Of course without limit switches, theres nothing to stop such a system
> from
> >> slamming into the stop at full torque with drive or software error..
> >>
> >
> > Yes. I was planning to not have drive or software errors ;-)
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

Umm, not any more, all the inkjets I've seen are really cheap servo systems
> (battery toy type motors and a linear mylar strip encoder)
>

Yes, they really cut the cost out of these things. The motors generally
don't have ball bearings, just bushings. The worst kind of  motor to use
with continuous radial loads, but there ya go, that's what they use.

One printer I recently gutted (Canon, I think) had no feedback at all. There
was just a simple DC motor to drive the carriage. They were depending on the
motor moving at constant speed with constant voltage, I guess. No limit
switches, either. Perhaps they monitor motor current to know when it's at
the limit.


> I think homing against a stop is OK with a torque controlled system (move
> slow
> and limit torque when homing) If your encoder has an index then this would
> give an accurate home.
>

Actually, I hadn't thought of that. My encoder does have an index, but I
don't have torque control. The drive does have a current limit, so maybe I
could use that.


> Of course without limit switches, theres nothing to stop such a system from
> slamming into the stop at full torque with drive or software error..
>

Yes. I was planning to not have drive or software errors ;-)
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Re: [Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

Well, I just figured out how to add an optical sensor without adding any
moving mass. This is the Y axis I'm working on, which is carried by the X
axis. If I home the X first, then I can use a fixed optical sensor to home
the Y axis. It would not be possible to home Y unless X was already at its
home position. I think that should be OK.

Neil

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Neil Baylis  wrote:

> Just wanted to point out that there are millions of inkjet printers and
> plotters in operation right now that use this exact technique. It's
> certainly practical. I think the reason they do it is to lower the cost. I
> imagine it also improves reliability by eliminating failure-prone parts
> (switches, connectors, etc).
>
> The reason I would do it is to lower the moving mass, as I'm attempting to
> build a very agile machine, and every ounce counts. If it's too complicated
> though, I'll rig up some optical sensor that can have low mass. On the other
> axis, I already have a reflective optical sensor that adds no moving mass
> and works well, but that's more difficult on this axis.
>
> Sam's point about the Integral term is important, and raises another
> question: is it possible to alter the PID tuning parameters after the .ini
> file has been read. I think the answer must be yes, because the calibration
> tool in the GUI does this, but not having read the code yet, I don't know
> how that works. But even assuming that's possible, I don't have a clear idea
> of where I would need to hook into EMC to do what I want.
>
> Neil
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Viesturs Lācis 
> wrote:
>
>> Can You explain the reason, why would You want to do it this way? I
>> think that such approach is breaking machine, it creates unnecesary
>> loads and stresses to the construction of machine and simple switches
>> are cheap and wiring them is easy. I think that it is trying to
>> reinvent the wheel in some painful way.
>> No offense, just my personal opinion :))
>>
>> Viesturs
>>
>> 2010/6/6 sam sokolik :
>> > I could maybe see monitoring following error...  When the servo hit the
>> > limit - the error would increase.  You could then use some logic that
>> > says when the following error reaches a certain amount - trip the
>> > 'virtual' limit switch.  Maybe..   I could see lots of issues and as
>> > gene says - you would want to limit the output to the servos.  If you
>> > have any I (in the pid) the pid loop will 'wind up' pretty quick sending
>> > the servos to maximum.
>> >
>> > Big picture it seems possible...  :)  (but I am just thinking out loud)
>> >
>> > sam
>> >
>> > On 6/6/2010 11:09 AM, Neil Baylis wrote:
>> >> Many printers&  plotters do not use limit switches. Instead, they move
>> the
>> >> print head slowly towards the end stop until the motor stalls, and then
>> back
>> >> off from that point a certain distance and that's the home position or
>> soft
>> >> limit.
>> >>
>> >> What, roughly, do I need to do with EMC to get this behavior?
>> >>
>> >> Neil
>> >>
>> --
>> >> ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate
>> >> GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the
>> >> lucky parental unit.  See the prize list and enter to win:
>> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo
>> >> ___
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>> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > lucky parental unit.  See the prize list and enter to win:
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>> >
>>
>>
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>> 

Re: [Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

Just wanted to point out that there are millions of inkjet printers and
plotters in operation right now that use this exact technique. It's
certainly practical. I think the reason they do it is to lower the cost. I
imagine it also improves reliability by eliminating failure-prone parts
(switches, connectors, etc).

The reason I would do it is to lower the moving mass, as I'm attempting to
build a very agile machine, and every ounce counts. If it's too complicated
though, I'll rig up some optical sensor that can have low mass. On the other
axis, I already have a reflective optical sensor that adds no moving mass
and works well, but that's more difficult on this axis.

Sam's point about the Integral term is important, and raises another
question: is it possible to alter the PID tuning parameters after the .ini
file has been read. I think the answer must be yes, because the calibration
tool in the GUI does this, but not having read the code yet, I don't know
how that works. But even assuming that's possible, I don't have a clear idea
of where I would need to hook into EMC to do what I want.

Neil

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> Can You explain the reason, why would You want to do it this way? I
> think that such approach is breaking machine, it creates unnecesary
> loads and stresses to the construction of machine and simple switches
> are cheap and wiring them is easy. I think that it is trying to
> reinvent the wheel in some painful way.
> No offense, just my personal opinion :))
>
> Viesturs
>
> 2010/6/6 sam sokolik :
> > I could maybe see monitoring following error...  When the servo hit the
> > limit - the error would increase.  You could then use some logic that
> > says when the following error reaches a certain amount - trip the
> > 'virtual' limit switch.  Maybe..   I could see lots of issues and as
> > gene says - you would want to limit the output to the servos.  If you
> > have any I (in the pid) the pid loop will 'wind up' pretty quick sending
> > the servos to maximum.
> >
> > Big picture it seems possible...  :)  (but I am just thinking out loud)
> >
> > sam
> >
> > On 6/6/2010 11:09 AM, Neil Baylis wrote:
> >> Many printers&  plotters do not use limit switches. Instead, they move
> the
> >> print head slowly towards the end stop until the motor stalls, and then
> back
> >> off from that point a certain distance and that's the home position or
> soft
> >> limit.
> >>
> >> What, roughly, do I need to do with EMC to get this behavior?
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> --
> >> ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate
> >> GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the
> >> lucky parental unit.  See the prize list and enter to win:
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the
> > lucky parental unit.  See the prize list and enter to win:
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

I'm using servos, not steppers. I have real position feedback.

Neil

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 06 June 2010, Neil Baylis wrote:
> >Many printers & plotters do not use limit switches. Instead, they move the
> >print head slowly towards the end stop until the motor stalls, and then
> > back off from that point a certain distance and that's the home position
> > or soft limit.
> >
> >What, roughly, do I need to do with EMC to get this behavior?
> >
> That generally does work well at all.  The reason is that when it jams, it
> jams at the steppers max torque, and it takes a random number of steps in
> the other direction, and even some hand help at times, to break it loose
> again.
>
> >Neil
> >--
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> >GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the
> >lucky parental unit.  See the prize list and enter to win:
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> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Old soldiers never die.  Young ones do.
>
>
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[Emc-users] Detecting limits without switches

[Neil Baylis]

Many printers & plotters do not use limit switches. Instead, they move the
print head slowly towards the end stop until the motor stalls, and then back
off from that point a certain distance and that's the home position or soft
limit.

What, roughly, do I need to do with EMC to get this behavior?

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Saw Beveler video

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 3:51 AM, Andy Pugh wrote:

> On 31 May 2010 02:03, Mike Payson  wrote:
>
> >  For reference, their 20mm
> > extrusions are only $4.70/meter. 20mm isn't strong enough for most parts
> of
> > a cnc machine,
>
> It's a quick and easy way to make OK-looking equipment cabinets. MDF
> panels can be fitted into the slots.
> http://picasaweb.google.com/bodgesoc/Gibbs#5398215381172597314
>
> Wow, is that Vector wiring I see on those circuit boards? I lost lots of
hair working with that stuff about 20 years ago. Didn't know it was still
available.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] HELP?! Problems with a Reinstall of EMC 2.3 No OpenGL for Axis?

[Neil Baylis]

There's also Matrox.

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:27 AM, Mark Wendt  wrote:

>
>
> On 05/23/2010 06:18 PM, Dave wrote:
> >From what I have gathered 10.4 suffers from similar video problems
> that
> > 9.10 did.  One issue is that 9.10 and apparently also 10.4 oftentimes
> > can't access the video screen correctly to determine the screens
> > capabilities.
> >
> > If you use the Vesa driver and you know your screen resolution, you can
> > force the Vesa driver to set the video which apparently gets rid of some
> > of the screen flickering issues etc.
> >
> > Another user, and then I found that the D510 intel board with the
> > onboard intel GMA3150 video had an issue with 9.10 so I wrote up a work
> > around for the D510 board.   If you are going to use the Vesa driver
> > perhaps this would be some help.
> >
> > Go to this page...
> >
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Ubuntu91
> >
> > And scroll down to the bottom where it says:  "*Note Relating to "cannot
> > load the i810 module" error when first booting compiled Kernel:*"
> >
> > The  "xorg.conf.failsafe"  file is setup to use the Vesa driver..  so
> > this procedure just sets things up so the vesa driver is used and then
> > describes how to set the config file so it is optimal for the monitor
> > you have connected.
> >
> > This doesn't fix any Linux issue, it is really a work around.
> >
> > Dave
>
> Ah, figures.  I mentioned to Gene in the previous email that I didn't
> have any problems in 8.04 (didn't try the 9.10 version so I didn't
> notice the video problems there).  Other than ATI and NVidia, are there
> other decent video cards, or have they pretty much taken over the field?
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Specs for a PC to run EMC

[Neil Baylis]

I'm using a Dell Optiplex GX280 both with integrated graphics and with an
add-on graphics card. There's a latency hit a certain time after it boots
up, but after that it's fine. I bought a couple of these machines for $45
each from a university.

Neil

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Wes Johnson wrote:

> I first tried a Medion with a Pentium 4HT 2.4 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce 8000
> series graphics.
>
> Next I tried an older Dell Optiplex GX270 P4 with integrated graphics.
>
> I disabled SMI on both. I get the same problem. There is an RTAI error
> shortly after starting EMC. On the Dell you can actually here the spindle
> RPM drop every 30 seconds or so when it has a problem.
>
> -Wes
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Tuning questions, Axis

[Neil Baylis]

I understand. I don't use the write to file mechanism. Rather, if I like the
settings, I click 'OK' in the calibration tool, and then manually edit the
settings in the .ini file so they will get loaded next time I start up.

Neil


On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Jon Elson wrote:
> > If you are using the machine/calibration GUI that changes the
> > PID/FFx/deadband etc.
> > parameters, then it is constantly updating those settings every time you
> > "OK" them.
> > If you want to revert to the original settings completely, then I think
> > you need to restart EMC.
> >
> Hmmm, I should clarify.  The settings are written to the "live" EMC, but
> only when you click "write to file" are they written to the .ini file.
> If you don't do "write to file" then an EMC restart will revert to the
> old settings.  If you DO a "write to file" then the old settings are
> over-written.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Tuning questions, Axis

[Neil Baylis]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

>
> > 4) None of the tabs in the Calibration tool shows FF2 as a tunable
> > parameter. To tune FF2, I shut down Axis, tweak the INI file manually,
> and
> > then restart Axis. Am I missing something?
> >
> Either there is no FF2 parameter listed in your ini file, or the stanza
> in univpwm_servo.hal is missing the line that brings over that parameter.
> If that line (which would be setp pid.1.FF2 [AXIS_1]FF2 in this case)
> was missing, then putting the value in the ini file would not have any
> effect, as it is not getting loaded into the PID component, anyway.
>

Thanks Jon, and others who responded. This was the problem. I'm seeing FF2
now in the calibration tool, and it's having a huge effect. I have to set it
to 0.01, but it does reduce the error noticeably.

I also created a small g-code program that moves to a fixed point, and then
back to 0 when I press the play button. This gives me nice repeatable graphs
with Halscope.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Tuning questions, Axis

[Neil Baylis]

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Chris Radek  wrote:

> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 09:32:37AM -0700, Neil Baylis wrote:
>
> > 5) FF2 seems to have no effect. I added it in the INI file immediately
> after
> > FF1.
>
> You probably didn't hook it up to pid in your hal file.
>
>
I certainly did not. I didn't realize this was necessary, because I didn't
have to do it for FF1. Is this also what controls whether the item is
displayed in the calibration tool?  (Can't test right now, because I'm
working at my other job. I.e., the one where they pay me.)

Neil
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[Emc-users] Tuning questions, Axis

[Neil Baylis]

I'm currently tining a small fast linear axis. It uses a DC servo, timing
belt, and linear encoder. I'm using Axis. This is the Y axis of my machine.

It's basically working, but I have a few questions:

1) Is it possible to make Axis re-load the ini file, or do I need to exit
and re-start Axis to do this?

2) I'm repeatedly doing the following MDI commands: g0y0  g0y8 while I take
a plot with Halscope to monitor the results. Is it possible to assign these
commands to function keys on the keyboard, or buttons on the GUI, so they
are more convenient?

3) The Calibration tool shows three tabs, one for each axis. For some
reason, the 3 tabs do not show the same tuning variables for each axis. What
is it that controls which tuning variables are shown in the Calibration tool
tabs?

4) None of the tabs in the Calibration tool shows FF2 as a tunable
parameter. To tune FF2, I shut down Axis, tweak the INI file manually, and
then restart Axis. Am I missing something?

5) FF2 seems to have no effect. I added it in the INI file immediately after
FF1. I've heard that it's very sensitive, and tried values from 0 up to 0.5,
but on Halscope the error plot looks identical. As a reference point, my FF1
value is 0.25. My servo amp is a voltage amp (PWM input LMD18200 H Bridge),
driving a small DC servo.

Thanks,

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Spirograph Curves

[Neil Baylis]

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:48 AM, craig  wrote:

> Could you post the information on Spirograph curves again.  I think I
> could use this kind of decoration.
>
>
Ah,don't be so hard on yourself  ;-)

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:

>
> Well, this is just RT-linux arcana, and either we will find a good fix
> for it, or have to put it prominently in the Wiki.
> Since you are apparently the first person to hit this, there won't be a
> release note about it until we know a little more
> about the exact conditions where this occurs.
>
>
OK. I can make it happen any time, so if you want me to test anything, let
me know.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Neil Baylis wrote:
> > I rebooted again (this is the third time since I did the upgrade to 2.4)
> and
> > checked lsmod. Still the same: no parport_pc, but parport is loaded with
> > dependencies lp and ppdev. I tried emc again, and now it works. While emc
> is
> > running, lsmod indicates the following:
> >
> I might power down and reboot just to make sure it comes up right EVERY
> time.  This sounds suspicious.
> (and, just in case you didn't know, there is a big difference between
> logging off and rebooting the kernel.)
>
> Jon
>
> I rebooted and cycled power a few times, and it kept working reliably.
I commented out the line in /etc/modprobe.d/emc2, rebooted, and it failed as
before.
Then I uncommented the line, rebooted, and it worked first time again.

I have to assume I somehow got confused when I edited this file the first
time, and thought I had rebooted when I hadn't.

So, the problem is just that I needed to edit that modprobe file. Is there a
release note or something that would tell me I need to do this? Looking at
the debug output, it seemed there was something wrong with the parallel
port, but it didn't lead me to edit that file.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Neil Baylis wrote:
> > I rebooted again (this is the third time since I did the upgrade to 2.4)
> and
> > checked lsmod. Still the same: no parport_pc, but parport is loaded with
> > dependencies lp and ppdev. I tried emc again, and now it works. While emc
> is
> > running, lsmod indicates the following:
> >
> I might power down and reboot just to make sure it comes up right EVERY
> time.  This sounds suspicious.
> (and, just in case you didn't know, there is a big difference between
> logging off and rebooting the kernel.)


OK, I'll power cycle and check a few more times.

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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

OK, I'm confused, but it works now.

I checked the file, and it was correct as you specifed.

After booting, but before running emc, lsmod indicated that parport_pc was
not loaded but parport was loaded, and that modules lp and ppdev depended on
it.

I checked, and the problem still happened. During and after runninf emc,
lsmod still showed the same modules: no parport_pc, but parport loaded, and
depended on by lp and ppdev.

I rebooted again (this is the third time since I did the upgrade to 2.4) and
checked lsmod. Still the same: no parport_pc, but parport is loaded with
dependencies lp and ppdev. I tried emc again, and now it works. While emc is
running, lsmod indicates the following:

n...@tardis:~$ lsmod | grep parport
parport33224  3 hal_ppmc,ppdev,lp

When I quit emc, the hal_ppmc dependency goes away, but the others remain.
That's how it should be, right?

So I guess somehow you were barking up the right tree. Editing the modprobe
file must have fixed the problem, but it required an extra reboot for some
reason.

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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 09:30:03AM -0700, Neil Baylis wrote:
> > I ran into an error after the upgrade. My system is the EMC2 Hardy live
> CD
> > install, and I'm using the config files from pico systems website for the
> > universal PWM controller.
> >
> > The files are at:  http://pico-systems.com/codes/univpwm/
> >
> > The only change I made was to edit the ini file and remove the line
> > referring to the nml file.
>
> Thanks for attaching that information.
>
> I think the key line is this one:
> [ 1414.605787] PARPORT: ERROR: linux parport parport0 does not support
> mode 4
> this means that the Linux parport driver doesn't think your port works
> in EPP mode.  If your system worked before the upgrade to 2.4.0, then
> obviously this is not correct.
>
> You should be able to get running with 2.4.0 by disabling the linux
> parport driver (which was the default in 2.3.x installs).  In the
> terminal, run this command:
>sudoedit /etc/modprobe.d/emc2
> then remove the "#" from the last line in the file so that it reads
>install parport_pc /bin/true
> and then reboot.  After that, I expect that emc will start for you.
>
> Please let us know if this doesn't fix the problem you encountered.
>
> Jeff
>
>
Jeff,

that didn't seem to change anything. It still reports the same error about
mode 4. I double checked that the change to the modprobe file was correct,
and just for superstition I rebooted as well.

I don't see any mention of parport in any of the config files from pico, so
I'm not sure how it knows to load that driver. It does load hal_ppmc, so
maybe that drives the parallel port.

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Re: [Emc-users] RELEASED: emc 2.4.0

[Neil Baylis]

I ran into an error after the upgrade. My system is the EMC2 Hardy live CD
install, and I'm using the config files from pico systems website for the
universal PWM controller.

The files are at:  http://pico-systems.com/codes/univpwm/

The only change I made was to edit the ini file and remove the line
referring to the nml file.


Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
EMC2_DIR=
EMC2_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
EMC2_TCL_DIR=/usr/share/emc/tcl
EMC2_SCRIPT_DIR=
EMC2_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2
EMC2_CONFIG_DIR=
EMC2_LANG_DIR=/usr/share/emc/tcl/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
EMC2_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.4
EMC2 - 2.4.0
Machine configuration directory is '/home/neil/emc2/configs/pico-stock'
Machine configuration file is 'univpwm.ini'
INIFILE=/home/neil/emc2/configs/pico-stock/univpwm.ini
PARAMETER_FILE=univpwm.var
EMCMOT=motmod
EMCIO=io
TASK=milltask
HALUI=
DISPLAY=tkemc
NML_FILE=
Starting EMC2...
Starting EMC2 server program: emcsvr
Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
Starting EMC2 IO program: io
Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
Killing task emcsvr, PID=5619
Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
Removing NML shared memory segments
Cleanup done

Debug file information:
Can not find -sec EMC -var NML_FILE -num 1
Unrecognized line skipped: POC FMS LEN DIAMCOMMENT
insmod: error inserting
'/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/hal_ppmc.ko': -1 No such device
univpwm_load.hal:13: exit value: 1
univpwm_load.hal:13: insmod failed, returned -1
See the output of 'dmesg' for more information.
5619
  PID TTY  STAT   TIME COMMAND
Stopping realtime threads
Unloading hal components

Kernel message information:
[ 1414.429812] I-pipe: Domain RTAI registered.
[ 1414.429821] RTAI[hal]: <3.6.1> mounted over IPIPE-NOTHREADS 2.0-04.
[ 1414.429823] RTAI[hal]: compiled with gcc version 4.2.4 (Ubuntu
4.2.4-1ubuntu3).
[ 1414.429829] RTAI[hal]: mounted (IPIPE-NOTHREADS, IMMEDIATE (INTERNAL IRQs
DISPATCHED), ISOL_CPUS_MASK: 0).
[ 1414.429831] PIPELINE layers:
[ 1414.429834] f8c35000 9ac15d93 RTAI 200
[ 1414.429836] c0383180 0 Linux 100
[ 1414.442619] RTAI[malloc]: global heap size = 2097152 bytes, .
[ 1414.442986] RTAI[sched]: loaded (IMMEDIATE, UP, USER/KERNEL SPACE: , kstacks pool size = 524288 bytes.
[ 1414.442992] RTAI[sched]: hard timer type/freq = 8254-PIT/1193180(Hz);
default timing: periodic; linear timed lists.
[ 1414.442996] RTAI[sched]: Linux timer freq = 250 (Hz), CPU freq =
2992876000 hz.
[ 1414.442998] RTAI[sched]: timer setup = 2010 ns, resched latency = 2689
ns.
[ 1414.521584] RTAI[math]: loaded.
[ 1414.536109] RTAPI: Init
[ 1414.536131] RTAPI: Init complete
[ 1414.551404] HAL_LIB: loading kernel lib
[ 1414.551410] RTAPI: initing module HAL_LIB
[ 1414.551413] RTAPI: module 'HAL_LIB' loaded, ID: 1
[ 1414.551553] RTAPI: shmem 01 created by module 01, key: 1212238898, size:
262000
[ 1414.551559] HAL_LIB: kernel lib installed successfully
[ 1414.605787] PARPORT: ERROR: linux parport parport0 does not support mode
4
[ 1414.960387] RTAI[math]: unloaded.
[ 1415.017533] SCHED releases registered named ALIEN RTGLBH
[ 1415.032557] RTAI[malloc]: unloaded.
[ 1415.132197] RTAI[sched]: unloaded (forced hard/soft/hard transitions:
traps 0, syscalls 0).
[ 1415.134790] I-pipe: Domain RTAI unregistered.
[ 1415.134797] RTAI[hal]: unmounted.




Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Linear motor tuning test

[Neil Baylis]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

>
> I don't think it ever reached 30 IPS, maybe about half that, due to
> acceleration.  Still, QUITE impressive.
>

Oh it gets up to 30. Actually, I've had it up to 32 IPS, according to
Halscope, but this test had the max velocity set to 30. I have the
acceleration set pretty high, so most of the move is at constant velocity.
But sure, on the shorter ones, it wont be getting to 30.


>
> At these sorts of speeds, you may need to up the servo sampling rate
> quite a bit.  You can easily go to 2 KHz,
> and with a good PCI parallel port card, you should be able to go to 4 or
> 5 KHz.
>

Why do I need to do that?


> Yeah, I definitely hear similar things in round-motor servos, too.  If
> you are not using FF1 and FF2, you may be able to use those with less D
> and get even better performance.  Since you have no cutting loads to
> respond to, you should be able to reduce error to about 2-3 encoder
> counts at all speeds with the feed-forward.  It only takes a little FF1
> and very small FF2 to make a huge difference.  It is easy to overdo the
> FF and make things worse.  FF1 of 1-5 and FF2 of .01 are numbers I often
> see.
>

I'm using FF1 of about 5. I tweaked FF2 a couple of times, but it didn't
seem to make any difference. I was hoping it would let me lower the D. I
have more tests to do though, and as you probably know, it's easy to get
confused about which term you're tuning.


> That rumble comes from the sampling of the encoder count, plus your low
> encoder resolution, causing the velocity measured each servo cycle to
> jump around a lot.


Won't that get worse if I increase the servo sample rate?


> For instance, at 15 IPS, you are getting 15 encoder
> counts/sample (assuming a 1 KHz servo rate).  But, the real samples are
> likely to jump between 14, 15 and 16 each sample.  That is perceived by
> the PID algorithm as a 6.7% jump in velocity.  This is then amplified by
> the D term and added to the PWM output.  The higher the D, the more you
> amplify these apparent velocity fluctuations, even though the real
> velocity is not actually fluctuating.  This is another of the reasons
> low encoder resolution causes problems.
>

Looking in the source code of the PID, I noticed there's no filtering on the
D term. I've used a filtered difference in the past to combat the derivative
noise, but of course it introduces phase shift.

I've ordered a higher resolution (5 micron) encoder, so it will be
interesting to see how much improvement that gives. I've also ordered a
better power supply, and will raise the current limit by an amp or so. As it
is, everything is remaining cool to the touch. I can't detect any
temperature rise at all.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Linear motor tuning test

[Neil Baylis]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Cal Grandy  wrote:

> Why should one care about following error during rapid moves?  Such motion
> is usually only point to point, with accel and decel at the respective
> ends.
> Does the FE remain after the motion halts?
>
>
>
What's the difference between G0 at 30 IPS and G1 at 30 IPS?

Neil
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[Emc-users] Linear motor tuning test

[Neil Baylis]

I made a short video of progress in tuning my Linear Motor axis. This is
going to be the Y axis of a laser machine. In the video, it's doing a series
of random rapids at 30 inches per second, or 1800 IPM. During these rapids,
the FE is less than 0.05 inches. I'm not done with the tuning yet, but these
results are encouraging.

Linear Motor tests 

The motor is driven by a Pico systems 3 phase PWM amplifier, and the Pico
systems UPC controller. This amp uses 6-step commutation, and initially I
was concerned that there would be too much force ripple. Seems I didn't have
to worry.

You can hear two main sounds in the video. The higher pitched scraping sound
is the sound of the linear bearings. There's also a lower pitched rumble,
which is coming from the motor. This sound seems to be caused by the
Derivative term in the control loop. If I set D to zero, the rumble goes
away, but the FE becomes too great.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder resolution & Following Error

[Neil Baylis]

Thanks, Jon.

I don't have a particular goal. Rather, as I'm tuning my machine & learning
about EMC, I want to void going on a wild goose chase. At the moment, I just
want to see how well it will perform when optimally tuned.

I'm tweaking it in increments, running lots of tests. Currently, It's doing
about 25 inches per second rapids, within 0.05 inches FE. I don't know what
the FE is at low speeds yet.

I had been tuning it with no load, but realize that was a waste of time, so
I clamped a steel block to it, adding about 3 pounds to the moving mass. It
actually seems a little easier to tune with the extra weight. Much less
twitchy. This is roughly in the ballpark of the load it will carry when I
mount the other axis on it.

Anyway, from what folks are saying, sounds like I should be satisfied if I
get the FE down to .010 inches.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder resolution & Following Error

[Neil Baylis]

Steve, Jim: Thanks for the info.


> It's stupid not to ask questions.  Questions in and of themselves are not
> stupid.  I've been laughed at more than a few times because of the
> questions
> I have asked.  After the laughter died down and I received an answer I was
> a
> smarter man.


Thanks Jim.

I take comfort from the realization that I have immense potential for
becoming a smarter man too. [?]

Neil
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[Emc-users] Encoder resolution & Following Error

[Neil Baylis]

I hope this isn't a really stupid question, but what's the relationship
between encoder resolution and following error?

For example, the machine I'm building currently has a linear encoder of 250
cycles per inch, or 1000 counts. I assume this won't allow me to achieve
0.001 following error. And I understand FE is also affected by machine
rigidity, encoder noise, and other factors.

Is there a formula that would tell me what FE would be reasonably achievable
with my machine?

If I install an encoder with double the resolution, will that cut my FE in
half?

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Function keys not... functioning.

[Neil Baylis]

Well, the Dell keyboard worked. So then I did what I should have done in the
first place: ask the Google!

Turns out, there's a magic incantation you can do to make the function keys
of an Apple keyboard work correctly under Ubuntu:

First you have to edit the file /etc/modprobe.d/options, add “options hid
pb_fnmode=2″

Then run

sudo update-initramfs -u

Followed by a reboot.

Now the function keys work as expected, and I can operate the estop of Axis
from my keyboard.
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Re: [Emc-users] Function keys not... functioning.

[Neil Baylis]

I'm using an Apple keyboard. That's a good suggestion, I'll try with a Dell
keyboard I have lying around somewhere.

Neil

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Neil Baylis wrote:
> > Is there anything I need to configure to make the function keys (in Axis
> > GUI) work?
> >
> > When I hit the function keys, e.g. F1, F2 nothing happens.
> >
> > The function keys work in emacs, so I know it's possible. I'm using the
> > Ubuntu 8.04 live CD install of EMC2, downloaded from the linuxcnc
> website.
> >
> Very odd!  I sure use F1 - F5 and F9-F11 all the time in Axis, and with
> an 8.04 Ubuntu install.
> Are you using any special type of keyboard?  I have not used a live
> distro directly is a while, I
> usually use some version of the development trunk and compile.
>
> Jon
>
>
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[Emc-users] Function keys not... functioning.

[Neil Baylis]

Is there anything I need to configure to make the function keys (in Axis
GUI) work?

When I hit the function keys, e.g. F1, F2 nothing happens.

The function keys work in emacs, so I know it's possible. I'm using the
Ubuntu 8.04 live CD install of EMC2, downloaded from the linuxcnc website.

Thanks,

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

Indeed, that was the problem.

Now, the halmeters show the limit switch as expected, as well as the home
signal.

The homing sequence works correctly.

(I changed HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS to YES, and it does the expected thing).

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

OK, I've posted what I think is relevant. If there's a file missing, let me
know.

I posted the output of halcmd show twice, once with the machine off the
limit switch, and again with it on the limit switch.

I omitted the .tbl and .var files.

These files are edited versions of originals from the pico systems website.
I must have deleted something important.

The files are at:

http://pastebin.com/AkEw8975

Each section begins with *** and a description of what follows, so just
search for the *** to get to the individual pieces.

Thanks,

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

Thanks Steve.

I made 3 halmeters as you suggested. They all register FALSE, even
when the GUI is
showing the position in red when I hit the limit.

Just to make sure halmeter is working, I added another halmeter on
axis.0.motor-pos-fb and it showed the same position as the GUI does,
updating correctly as I move the machine by hand. So halmeter is
working, but doesn't show the digital ins for some reason.

Neil

> You should try looking at all three things that have to do with the home
> switch:  the pin ppmc.0.din.02.in-not, the signal Xminlim, and the pin
> axis.0.home-sw-in.
>
> If they are ever different, you have a problem (since the two pins are
> supposed to be connected together, they should always have the same value).
>
> You should be able to hit the switch and see all three halmeters switch
> between true and false.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

No,I manually move it away from the switch before I start.

Neil

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
> Is it possible the state of the home switch is tripped and the machine is
> backing off the switch from the start?
>
>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

No, same problem.

With HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES, it sails right past the home/limit
switch and hits the hard stop.

With HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO, it stops at the limit, complaining that
it hit a limit in homing state 5.

HOME_IS_SHARED seems to have no effect on this.


Note: I tried monitoring the axis.0.home-sw-in with Halmeter, but it
never changes. Also, when I use Halmeter to monitor the limit switch,
that never changes either, even though it is changing on TkEMC.
Something I don't understand about using Halmeter, I guess.

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

Oh, I thought HOME_IS_SHARED meant the home was shared with another axis.

I'll give that a try.

Neil

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:03 PM, Stephen Wille Padnos  wrote:
> Neil Baylis wrote:
>> [snip]
>> Here's the Homing section of my .ini file:
>>
>> HOME_SEARCH_VEL =       -1.0
>> HOME_LATCH_VEL =           0.1
>> HOME_USE_INDEX =          NO
>> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS =  NO
>> HOME_IS_SHARED =           NO
>> HOME_OFFSET =                 0.0
>> HOME =                                 0.0
>>
> I think you need HOME_IS_SHARED = 1
>
> That says that home is shared with a limit.
>
> - Steve
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Andy Pugh  wrote:
> On 4 May 2010 17:31, Neil Baylis  wrote:
>
>> There's a limit switch at each end. I want these switches to stop the
>> machine if it ever hits them.
>> I want to use the negative limit switch as the home switch.
>> When I press the home button in the GUI (TkEMC), I want the machine to find
>> that switch and then move away from it by maybe 1/2 inch. I want it to call
>> that position home, and to set the current position to zero.
>
> All perfectly standard, I think.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

>
> This is mine:
> HOME = 5.0
> MIN_LIMIT = 0.0
> MAX_LIMIT = 700.0
> HOME_OFFSET = 0.00
> HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -25.00
> HOME_LATCH_VEL = 1.562500
> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES
> HOME_SEQUENCE = 1

When I set HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES then the machine moves past the limit switch
(Which is supposed to also be the home switch) and hits the hard stop.
It does not seem to recognize the switch as a home switch.

Neil

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[Emc-users] Need help configuring Home

[Neil Baylis]

I'm trying to understand how to setup my homing config. I've been reading
everything I can find in the docs, but still can't get this to work.

I have a single axis, X

There's a limit switch at each end. I want these switches to stop the
machine if it ever hits them.

I want to use the negative limit switch as the home switch.

When I press the home button in the GUI (TkEMC), I want the machine to find
that switch and then move away from it by maybe 1/2 inch. I want it to call
that position home, and to set the current position to zero.


Here's the Homing section of my .ini file:

HOME_SEARCH_VEL =   -1.0
HOME_LATCH_VEL =   0.1
HOME_USE_INDEX =  NO
HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS =  NO
HOME_IS_SHARED =   NO
HOME_OFFSET = 0.0
HOME = 0.0

Here's the section of the .hal file where the signals are defined:

newsig Xminlim bit
linksp Xminlim <= ppmc.0.din.02.in-not
linksp Xminlim => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
linksp Xminlim => axis.0.home-sw-in

newsig Xmaxlim bit
linksp Xmaxlim <= ppmc.0.din.03.in-not
linksp Xmaxlim => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in


Here's what happens:

If I set HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS to YES, then the machine drives right past the
limit switch into the hard stop, and eventually hits the FE limit.

If I set HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS to NO, then the machine stops at the limit
switch and complains that it encountered a limit in homing state 5.

I think it's acting as though it doesn't see  axis.0.home-sw-in, although it
does see axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in

On the GUI, the X position goes red if I activate either of the limit
switches, so I think the limit switch plumbing is correct.

Neil
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Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

> I'm sure that Pilz, Faulhaber, Schaffner and a bunch of other outfits
> have a device that will do what you want, in some manner.  I don't think
> I have ever seen exactly a red mushroom switch that would mechanically
> activate, but these companies and others have safety-rated relays (for
> about $400) and safety-duty PLCs (about a grand and WAY up) for these
> sorts of requirements.  They are all designed with extensive
> fault-tolerant, fail-safe electronic and mechanical components.

Yeah, I've seen some of these devices. You wouldn't think e-stop could
get so complicated.

> The problem with making it mechanical
> through the red button is that someone intentionally or accidentally
> jamming the button could prevent the E-stop action from happening.

I wasn't thinking that the computer would use this as a way to stop
the machine. Rather, the computer would stop the machine however it
already does, but in addition it would press the e-stop, forcing the
operator to twist/lift the button before resuming, even if he never
pressed the button.

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

Thanks, Alex.

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Alex Joni  wrote:
> Here's a nice difference between a normal relay estop setup and a safety
> relay:
> http://www.ia.omron.com/product/cautions/189/img/cn_2.gif
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>
>
> On 4/13/2010 1:47 AM, Alex Joni wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.pilz.com/products/control_communication/safety_relay/index.en.jsp
>>
>> (first hit off google)
>>
>> Basicly they are a relay, with some aditional circuitry inside so that bad
>> things can't happen.
>> if you have a glitch in the safety circuit, the safety relay opens and
>> stays that way until you reset it
>> But there are various kinds, with various inputs/connection circuits.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 4/13/2010 1:01 AM, Neil Baylis wrote:
>>>
>>> What's a safety relay? Is it a particular kind of relay?
>>>
>>> Neil
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Alex Joni  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just use a safety relay for this, no need to reinvent the wheel..
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/12/2010 10:10 PM, Neil Baylis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, thanks. I guess they don't exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'll do is to add a circuit that requires the e-stop
>>>>> button to be pressed before a fault condition can be cleared. Then I
>>>>> have no choice but to twist the e-stop before resuming.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Neil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe Eric is correct.  After 30 years in industry (the last 20
>>>>>> specifically with CNC) I have never seen what you are describing.  As
>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>> mentioned, a relay that must be activated by a reset switch would do
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> job.  Reset switches for this purpose I have seen and included in some
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the retrofits that I have done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a good day,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>> From: "Eric Keller"
>>>>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller
>>>>>> (EMC)"
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:01 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that a switch with an actuator in it would be so expensive
>>>>>> that nobody has ever bothered to market one.  I think your best bet is
>>>>>> to have a self-powering relay that can only be turned on by a
>>>>>> momentary switch.
>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Neil Baylis
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand how to set up such a failsafe circuit. But in addition,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> want the actual e-stop switch to activate and latch, so that
>>>>>>> regardless of whether the computer generates a fault condition, or I
>>>>>>> do it myself, I still have to manually release the switch before
>>>>>>> resuming operation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
>>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Neil,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Setup a failsafe circuit with the connection passing through the
>>>>>>>> E-stop
>>>>>>>> contacts energizing a relay. If anything in the series circuit
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>> (E-stop button, relay contacts in E-stop circuit, overtravel limit
>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>&g

Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

What's a safety relay? Is it a particular kind of relay?

Neil

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Alex Joni  wrote:
> Just use a safety relay for this, no need to reinvent the wheel..
>
> Regards,
> Alex
>
>
> On 4/12/2010 10:10 PM, Neil Baylis wrote:
>>
>> OK, thanks. I guess they don't exist.
>>
>> I guess what I'll do is to add a circuit that requires the e-stop
>> button to be pressed before a fault condition can be cleared. Then I
>> have no choice but to twist the e-stop before resuming.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
>>   wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Neil,
>>>
>>> I believe Eric is correct.  After 30 years in industry (the last 20
>>> specifically with CNC) I have never seen what you are describing.  As
>>> Eric
>>> mentioned, a relay that must be activated by a reset switch would do the
>>> job.  Reset switches for this purpose I have seen and included in some of
>>> the retrofits that I have done.
>>>
>>> Have a good day,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Eric Keller"
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>>>
>>>
>>> My guess is that a switch with an actuator in it would be so expensive
>>> that nobody has ever bothered to market one.  I think your best bet is
>>> to have a self-powering relay that can only be turned on by a
>>> momentary switch.
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Neil Baylis
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Jim,
>>>>
>>>> I understand how to set up such a failsafe circuit. But in addition, I
>>>> want the actual e-stop switch to activate and latch, so that
>>>> regardless of whether the computer generates a fault condition, or I
>>>> do it myself, I still have to manually release the switch before
>>>> resuming operation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Neil,
>>>>>
>>>>> Setup a failsafe circuit with the connection passing through the E-stop
>>>>> contacts energizing a relay. If anything in the series circuit becomes
>>>>> open
>>>>> (E-stop button, relay contacts in E-stop circuit, overtravel limit
>>>>> switch
>>>>> contacts, etc.) the functions dependant upon that circuit being closed
>>>>> stop
>>>>> functioning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone may have a schematic example to share. If not, email me and I
>>>>> will
>>>>> send you an example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a good day,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: "Neil Baylis"
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking to source an e-stop switch. I have some already with the
>>>>>> big red mushroom button that latches when you press it, and must be
>>>>>> turned to release. This is good. But what I want is a switch that can
>>>>>> also be operated by a signal from the computer. So if the computer
>>>>>> detects an e-stop condition, the mushroom button would pop down, just
>>>>>> as if I had pressed it by hand. I would drive it from a digital out,
>>>>>> obviously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does such a thing exist, and can anyone point me at a source?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neil Baylis
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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> 21:32:00
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Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

OK, thanks. I guess they don't exist.

I guess what I'll do is to add a circuit that requires the e-stop
button to be pressed before a fault condition can be cleared. Then I
have no choice but to twist the e-stop before resuming.

Thanks,

Neil


On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
 wrote:
> Hi Neil,
>
> I believe Eric is correct.  After 30 years in industry (the last 20
> specifically with CNC) I have never seen what you are describing.  As Eric
> mentioned, a relay that must be activated by a reset switch would do the
> job.  Reset switches for this purpose I have seen and included in some of
> the retrofits that I have done.
>
> Have a good day,
>
> Jim
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Eric Keller" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>
>
> My guess is that a switch with an actuator in it would be so expensive
> that nobody has ever bothered to market one.  I think your best bet is
> to have a self-powering relay that can only be turned on by a
> momentary switch.
> Eric
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Neil Baylis  wrote:
>> Thanks Jim,
>>
>> I understand how to set up such a failsafe circuit. But in addition, I
>> want the actual e-stop switch to activate and latch, so that
>> regardless of whether the computer generates a fault condition, or I
>> do it myself, I still have to manually release the switch before
>> resuming operation.
>>
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
>>  wrote:
>>> Hi Neil,
>>>
>>> Setup a failsafe circuit with the connection passing through the E-stop
>>> contacts energizing a relay. If anything in the series circuit becomes
>>> open
>>> (E-stop button, relay contacts in E-stop circuit, overtravel limit switch
>>> contacts, etc.) the functions dependant upon that circuit being closed
>>> stop
>>> functioning.
>>>
>>> Someone may have a schematic example to share. If not, email me and I
>>> will
>>> send you an example.
>>>
>>> Have a good day,
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Neil Baylis" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:19 PM
>>> Subject: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm looking to source an e-stop switch. I have some already with the
>>>> big red mushroom button that latches when you press it, and must be
>>>> turned to release. This is good. But what I want is a switch that can
>>>> also be operated by a signal from the computer. So if the computer
>>>> detects an e-stop condition, the mushroom button would pop down, just
>>>> as if I had pressed it by hand. I would drive it from a digital out,
>>>> obviously.
>>>>
>>>> Does such a thing exist, and can anyone point me at a source?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Neil Baylis
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
>>>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>>>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
>>>> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

Thanks Jim,

I understand how to set up such a failsafe circuit. But in addition, I
want the actual e-stop switch to activate and latch, so that
regardless of whether the computer generates a fault condition, or I
do it myself, I still have to manually release the switch before
resuming operation.


Neil

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jim Fleig - CNC Services
 wrote:
> Hi Neil,
>
> Setup a failsafe circuit with the connection passing through the E-stop
> contacts energizing a relay.  If anything in the series circuit becomes open
> (E-stop button, relay contacts in E-stop circuit, overtravel limit switch
> contacts, etc.) the functions dependant upon that circuit being closed stop
> functioning.
>
> Someone may have a schematic example to share.  If not, email me and I will
> send you an example.
>
> Have a good day,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Neil Baylis" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 1:19 PM
> Subject: [Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch
>
>
>> I'm looking to source an e-stop switch. I have some already with the
>> big red mushroom button that latches when you press it, and must be
>> turned to release. This is good. But what I want is a switch that can
>> also be operated by a signal from the computer. So if the computer
>> detects an e-stop condition, the mushroom button would pop down, just
>> as if I had pressed it by hand. I would drive it from a digital out,
>> obviously.
>>
>> Does such a thing exist, and can anyone point me at a source?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Neil Baylis
>>
>> --
>> Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
>> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
>> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
>> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> --
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[Emc-users] Emergency Stop switch

[Neil Baylis]

I'm looking to source an e-stop switch. I have some already with the
big red mushroom button that latches when you press it, and must be
turned to release. This is good. But what I want is a switch that can
also be operated by a signal from the computer. So if the computer
detects an e-stop condition, the mushroom button would pop down, just
as if I had pressed it by hand. I would drive it from a digital out,
obviously.

Does such a thing exist, and can anyone point me at a source?

Thanks,

Neil Baylis

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Re: [Emc-users] C Style Extensions for GCode

[Neil Baylis]

This is a very powerful extension, but I'm wondering if it's the best
approach. Rather than coming up with a new meta-language for creating
G Codes, why not just add a statement that runs an external program
that outputs G Codes? That way, you can write the program in any
language you like, make use of IDEs, debuggers, or whatever, without
having to re-invent the wheel. It would work similarly to the way CGI
works for websites. The external program would simply output G Codes
to stdout.

I understand there's already the ability to run an external program
triggered by an M Code, but I don't think you can get output from that
program back into your original G Code program. (Of course, I may be
wrong about this...)

The problem with creating a new language is that you can't use any
existing tools for debugging it; you have to create everything from
scratch.

Neil

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Flying Electron Inc
 wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I wrote a python extension for axis that allows C language style extensions
> to the GCode if anyone wants to give it a try.
>
> http://tsemsb.blogspot.com/2010/04/cgcc-gcode-with-c-constructs.html
>
> It allows you to write code like this:
>
> // Constants
> const float X_Holes = 10;
> const float Y_Holes = 10;
>
> // Loop
> for (float y = 0; y < Y_Holes; y++) {
>    for (float x = 0; x < X_Holes; x++) {
>        if (x != y) {
>            G00 Z1
>            G00 X[x] Y[y]
>            G01 Z0 F1
>            G00 Z1
>        }
>    }
> }
>
> and it gets translated into regular GCode with o-words.
>
> Lawrence
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Big files

[Neil Baylis]

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> 1. emc executes the program looking for show stopper errors as it loads,
> assuming instant moves & without output to the machinery.

Is it possible that this behavior could be made optional? For example,
there's no point in doing this check on a file that is known to be
good.

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Andy Pugh  wrote:
> 2010/1/14 Neil Baylis :
>>
>> Ah OK. The penny drops. When I get home tonight, I'll follow the
>> directions to disable SMI and see what happens.
>
> It doesn't sound like SMI. That normally happens periodically. (in my
> case it was every 64 seconds)

You were correct. I followed the instructions for disabling SMI, and
it made no difference.

However, it seems reliably true that once you get past the two spikes,
the latency is tolerable.

I'm going to run that way for the time being, and see how it goes. If
I notice problems, I'll investigate further.

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

Ah OK. The penny drops. When I get home tonight, I'll follow the
directions to disable SMI and see what happens.

Is SMI the facility that makes the fans speed up and slow down
according to how busy the system is? Or is that something else?

(My fans seem very dynamic, speeding up and slowing down at the drop
of a hat. But if I run just the latency test, they run quiet and
slow.)

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

Ah OK. The penny drops. When I get home tonight, I'll follow the
directions to disable SMI and see what happens.

Is SMI the facility that makes the fans speed up and slow down
according to how busy the system is? Or is that something else?

(My fans seem very dynamic, speeding up and slowing down at the drop
of a hat. But if I run just the latency test, they run quiet and
slow.)

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

OK, so I started up the computer, then waited 1/2 hour. Then I ran the
latency test for 1/2 hour with no "abuse", and the latency was below 7
microseconds. I have plenty of other computers, so I certainly don't
need to be doing anything else on my EMC box when it's running EMC.


Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

> On a side note I have just started testing a Dell Optiplex
> GX520. When you first start the computer during the first 4 minutes there
> are two 250,000 spikes in the test with or without SMI. So far they do not
> repeat again even after the computer is on for several hours. Have had
> similar results in the 120,000 range with a Optiplex GX260  that I am using
> on a mill without any problems. May not be an issue, just have to warm the
> computer up before cutting!
>
> Rick
>

What is SMI?

Also, what graphics card are you using with the Dells?

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

2010/1/14 Евгений Александрович :
> Maybe the problem is CPU TERMAL TROLLING?
> I tested one PC, which had BIOS without option to disable CPU TERMAL TROLLING.
> I did not find any way how to use that PC with EMC2.
>

Sorry I don't know what that is. I guess it means my BIOS has no way
of disabling it either.

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Re: [Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 4:05 AM, rng3  wrote:
> If the GUI latency test gives a result of how EMC will perform I always
> wondered if "abusing the computer" during the test does not result in an
> overly conservative number. I never use the computer that is running EMC
> with any other program until the parts are done. (Am I the only one?) There
> can be a dramatic difference between the latency test running by itself or
> the test running with everything else we may be doing with the computer at
> the same time. On a side note I have just started testing a Dell Optiplex
> GX520. When you first start the computer during the first 4 minutes there
> are two 250,000 spikes in the test with or without SMI. So far they do not
> repeat again even after the computer is on for several hours. Have had
> similar results in the 120,000 range with a Optiplex GX260  that I am using
> on a mill without any problems. May not be an issue, just have to warm the
> computer up before cutting!
>
> Rick
>

Yes, this is exactly what I'm seeing on the GX280. If I reset the
latency test after those spiikes, I never see them again. I'm going to
try starting the computer, but not running the test for half an hour
or so to see what happens.

Is there any procedure for tracking down the cause of these spikes?

Neil

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[Emc-users] Latency test numbers confusing

[Neil Baylis]

I've been running the latency test from the applications menu as I  
experiment with my graphics setup. Today I discovered the command-line  
version, and ran that. What's confusing is that I get different  
results depending on which one I run.

When I run the command-line version, the worst latency I ever see is  
about 12 microseconds. This seems fine.

When I run the GUI version, it's more like 25 microseconds, but very  
occasionally I see numbers greater than 100 microseconds. This seems  
not so fine at all.

Any idea what's going on here? Which numbers should I believe?

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Graphics card with DVI out?

[Neil Baylis]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
> Do you know for sure that your current card does not work with EMC?

No. I'm just going by the dire warnings I've seen in the EMC wiki.

I have two identical computers (Dell GX280 Small Form Factor). One of
them has Ubuntu 9.10, and the other has Ubuntu 8.04 (The EMC live CD
install). I bought two of the NVIDIA cards (before I knew there might
be a problem) and installed them in both computers. The one in the
9.10 box works fine. The one in the EMC box died before I had a chance
to do the latency test, so I'm sending that one back to Newegg.

Tonight I'll swap the 1 good card back into the EMC box, and run the
latency test to see what happens.

Neil

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Re: [Emc-users] Graphics card with DVI out?

[Neil Baylis]

Supplemental question:

If I get a graphics card from somewhere, is there a way to know if it
will work with EMC? is it enough to run the latency test, or do I have
to actually run a machine and see if it works OK?

Thanks,

Neil

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[Emc-users] Graphics card with DVI out?

[Neil Baylis]

Hello,

Can anyone recommend a graphics card that's known to play nice with
EMC, and which has a DVI output?

I just bought an NVIDIA card for my computer, and it works OK, but I
found out that all NVIDIA cards are not recommended. So I was planning
to get an ATI card instead, if there's reason to think it will work
with EMC.

As it is, my EMC computer has a VGA with built in Intel graphics. This
won't work for me, as I want to connect it to my DVI monitor. Believe
it or not, I have no VGA monitor, and don't want to get one.

Thanks,

Neil Baylis

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