Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
2012/4/11 Andy Pugh bodge...@gmail.com: I suspect very few people understand the difference between coordinated mode (N-Bahnsteuerung) where multiple joints move at the same time to make the tool move in XYZ space under operator control and Teleop mode (1-Bahnsteuerung) where the operator controls a single selected joint at any one time. I _think_ Teleop and Joint mode mean the same thing. I cannot agree about the teleop mode - it definitely is not the same as joint mode. On my robot, in teleop mode kinematics were applied (in joint mode kinematics are _not_ applied), I could jog the tool along X, Y or Z, but one of them at a time (IIRC that is true for any non-trivial kinematics machine - cannot jog along 2 Cartesian axes at a time). So I would say that teleop is something inbetween joint and coordinated modes. Viesturs -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
I suspect very few people understand the difference between coordinated mode (N-Bahnsteuerung) where multiple joints move at the same time to make the tool move in XYZ space under operator control and Teleop mode (1-Bahnsteuerung) where the operator controls a single selected joint at any one time. I _think_ Teleop and Joint mode mean the same thing. I cannot agree about the teleop mode - it definitely is not the same as joint mode. On my robot, in teleop mode kinematics were applied (in joint mode kinematics are _not_ applied), I could jog the tool along X, Y or Z, but one of them at a time (IIRC that is true for any non-trivial kinematics machine - cannot jog along 2 Cartesian axes at a time). So I would say that teleop is something inbetween joint and coordinated modes. Viesturs Teleop is supposed to be coordinated jogging, opposed to Joint mode where you do individual joint jogging. In teleop kinematics gets applied, in Joint mode it doesn't. As for the directions that's just an implementation flaw currently in LinuxCNC, you should be able to jog in Teleop mode along more than one axis. (and in the ja3 rewrite you already can). Regards, Alex -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
Thank you all for your thoughts about the movement modes. Translating forces exact definitions. As Viesturs said, it is a good thing to explain these modes from time to time. Right, Gelenk would be my fist choice to translate joint, but it describes only the p o i n t where movement takes place, e.g., the ellbow or knee itself, not the arm or leg or even their ends (where the desired movement takes place), which is meant by LinuxCNC. I would not be glad with this expression, but still may have to stick with it - not too bad since joint in English also actually means a point where two pieces are joined, not the extensions thereof. Gelenk is related to the verb lenken which means to steer, and this comes close to what is happening in CNC. I will have to ponder about this before I dare setting standards in LinuxCNC. Peter Andy Pugh schrieb: On 10 Apr 2012, at 11:18, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: I don't know what the English sentence means, it's hard to interpret (e.g., 'Coordinated mode' or 'Teleop mode'). In some cases, there may not even be a German word for lack of exact definition (what exactly is a joint? Luckily I have a handy German engineer in the hotel room with me. Joint = Gelink but is used in the LinuxCNC context to describe any mechanical part which adds one or more degrees of freedom. So it is typically a machine slide, but can be a rotary bearing or anything else controlled by an actuator. I suspect very few people understand the difference between coordinated mode (N-Bahnsteuerung) where multiple joints move at the same time to make the tool move in XYZ space under operator control and Teleop mode (1-Bahnsteuerung) where the operator controls a single selected joint at any one time. I _think_ Teleop and Joint mode mean the same thing. -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
2012/4/11 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Right, Gelenk would be my fist choice to translate joint, but it describes only the p o i n t where movement takes place, e.g., the ellbow or knee itself, not the arm or leg or even their ends (where the desired movement takes place), which is meant by LinuxCNC. I would not be glad with this expression, but still may have to stick with it - not too bad since joint in English also actually means a point where two pieces are joined, not the extensions thereof. Regarding the exact meaning of words, in LinuxCNC the joints are either linear or rotary (or prismatic and revolving in other places). It just defines, what kind of motion it provides in that particular spot, IMO it actually does describe only the point, where movement takes place, which makes gelenk very precise word to describe the word joint in LinuxCNC context. More data is required to describe the actual movement of attached construction, especially the movement of end effector, like Denavit-Hartenberg parameters for robotic arms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denavit%E2%80%93Hartenberg_parameters Viesturs -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
a joint could be a pivot or fulcrum. the machine control regards the mechanical instances of disjointedness as points of relative displacement, whether cartesian or polar or other. the displacements along an axis with respect to another axis seems like it might as well be thought of in terms of the coupling between the two axes. --- On Wed, 4/11/12, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: From: Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de Subject: Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 1:48 AM Thank you all for your thoughts about the movement modes. Translating forces exact definitions. As Viesturs said, it is a good thing to explain these modes from time to time. Right, Gelenk would be my fist choice to translate joint, but it describes only the p o i n t where movement takes place, e.g., the ellbow or knee itself, not the arm or leg or even their ends (where the desired movement takes place), which is meant by LinuxCNC. I would not be glad with this expression, but still may have to stick with it - not too bad since joint in English also actually means a point where two pieces are joined, not the extensions thereof. Gelenk is related to the verb lenken which means to steer, and this comes close to what is happening in CNC. I will have to ponder about this before I dare setting standards in LinuxCNC. Peter Andy Pugh schrieb: On 10 Apr 2012, at 11:18, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: I don't know what the English sentence means, it's hard to interpret (e.g., 'Coordinated mode' or 'Teleop mode'). In some cases, there may not even be a German word for lack of exact definition (what exactly is a joint? Luckily I have a handy German engineer in the hotel room with me. Joint = Gelink but is used in the LinuxCNC context to describe any mechanical part which adds one or more degrees of freedom. So it is typically a machine slide, but can be a rotary bearing or anything else controlled by an actuator. I suspect very few people understand the difference between coordinated mode (N-Bahnsteuerung) where multiple joints move at the same time to make the tool move in XYZ space under operator control and Teleop mode (1-Bahnsteuerung) where the operator controls a single selected joint at any one time. I _think_ Teleop and Joint mode mean the same thing. -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
Kent, apparently you didn't get me quite right as I saw already from the thread name you changed. Caring for the docs in German is undoubtedly an important challenge, but in he first place I was talking about the words that are appearing on the screen in the application windows themselves when running the program. Trying with stepconfig, it occurred to me that these haven't changed from 2.4 to 2.5. I chose German as overall Ubuntu language, which seems not so waterproof with mixed language, and then put semi-German stepconfig on top to mix it more. So what I need is a way to access the program files and their wording. We can talk about documentation later anyway. Best regards Peter Kent A. Reed schrieb: On 4/9/2012 11:18 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Gentlemen, I finally made it and installed the new live CD on my former office PC. ... Just a word about the German appearance: I would gladly help with translation and adaptation to German if I knew how. As it is at the moment, texts are mixed English/German which can lead to misunderstandings, and there are some typos in them (e.g., in stepconfig). So, I think it will be better for me to stick with a purely English version in order to avoid trouble. But since this can't be the purpose of multilingual efforts: can anybody tell me how to help with improving the German version? Peter Peter: This is a generous offer. Look down the source tree for LinuxCNC. At the head of the v2.5_branch, for example, there is the docs/src subdirectory. In this and lower subdirectories you'll find see repilicated asciidoc files for each of the languages currently supported. For example, docs/src/ Master_Getting_Started.txt Master_Getting_Started_de.txt Master_Getting_Started_es.txt Master_Getting_Started_fr.txt Master_Getting_Started_pl.txt It shouldn't be hard to guess that _de denotes the German-language versions. [personal vexation: I wish the English-language files were denoted with _en to life just a tad easier.] Were I undertaking this task, I'd have to decide whether 'tis better to edit the existing German-language files or create entirely new ones from the English-language files. There's been enough editing of the (English) V2.4.x files to create V2.5 that I'd tend toward the latter choice unless I were sure the German-language versions were already in pretty good shape. I'm sure Francis Tisserant and others who worked so hard to bring the French-language versions up to snuff last year would choose differently:-) Either way, when you're done, you can simply announce them on the developers list and see what they suggest you do. Thanks again for the offer. Regards, Kent -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
On 4/10/2012 2:59 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Kent, apparently you didn't get me quite right as I saw already from the thread name you changed. Caring for the docs in German is undoubtedly an important challenge, but in he first place I was talking about the words that are appearing on the screen in the application windows themselves when running the program. Trying with stepconfig, it occurred to me that these haven't changed from 2.4 to 2.5. I chose German as overall Ubuntu language, which seems not so waterproof with mixed language, and then put semi-German stepconfig on top to mix it more. So what I need is a way to access the program files and their wording. We can talk about documentation later anyway. Best regards Peter Sorry, Peter. I guess that was just wishful thinking on my part since i had spent time comparing the various language-version doc files when I was trying to help John Thornton proofread the docs. I have no personal experience with the language files for the running software but look in the src/po subdirectory, in your case, for the de.po file. Check the README file and then ask questions of the developers. Regards, Kent -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
Peter Blodow wrote: In some cases, there may not even be a German word for lack of exact definition (what exactly is a joint? As a German word, it means a marihuana or haschisch cigarette). It is also a flexible connection between bones, as in the elbow and knee. A Puma-style robot ONLY has joints, no linear axes. A hexapod also has joints, and these must be coordinated precisely or the machine can bind up. On machines with non-Cartesian axes, LinuxCNC allows the machine to be set up in joint mode, where each joint can be moved independently, such as during homing and initial machine alignment. Then it can be switched to world mode, where it responds to Cartesian and rotary coordinates, and the kinematics determines what the joints need to do to put the tool at the commanded point and angle. I'd probably better stop there, as I know only a hint about these machine. Jon -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
Joints are the moving elements of a machine whether the elements are linear or rotary. The axes are the cartesian coordinate system superimposed over the joints. The kinematics describe the relationship between the joints and axes. The axes allow the human to communicate with the machine in a logical protocol using a gcode (symbolic) language common to most machine tools. -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
On 10 Apr 2012, at 11:18, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: I don't know what the English sentence means, it's hard to interpret (e.g., 'Coordinated mode' or 'Teleop mode'). In some cases, there may not even be a German word for lack of exact definition (what exactly is a joint? Luckily I have a handy German engineer in the hotel room with me. Joint = Gelink but is used in the LinuxCNC context to describe any mechanical part which adds one or more degrees of freedom. So it is typically a machine slide, but can be a rotary bearing or anything else controlled by an actuator. I suspect very few people understand the difference between coordinated mode (N-Bahnsteuerung) where multiple joints move at the same time to make the tool move in XYZ space under operator control and Teleop mode (1-Bahnsteuerung) where the operator controls a single selected joint at any one time. I _think_ Teleop and Joint mode mean the same thing. -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] German-language documentation, was: Downloading Release 2.5
On 4/9/2012 11:18 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Gentlemen, I finally made it and installed the new live CD on my former office PC. ... Just a word about the German appearance: I would gladly help with translation and adaptation to German if I knew how. As it is at the moment, texts are mixed English/German which can lead to misunderstandings, and there are some typos in them (e.g., in stepconfig). So, I think it will be better for me to stick with a purely English version in order to avoid trouble. But since this can't be the purpose of multilingual efforts: can anybody tell me how to help with improving the German version? Peter Peter: This is a generous offer. Look down the source tree for LinuxCNC. At the head of the v2.5_branch, for example, there is the docs/src subdirectory. In this and lower subdirectories you'll find see repilicated asciidoc files for each of the languages currently supported. For example, docs/src/ Master_Getting_Started.txt Master_Getting_Started_de.txt Master_Getting_Started_es.txt Master_Getting_Started_fr.txt Master_Getting_Started_pl.txt It shouldn't be hard to guess that _de denotes the German-language versions. [personal vexation: I wish the English-language files were denoted with _en to life just a tad easier.] Were I undertaking this task, I'd have to decide whether 'tis better to edit the existing German-language files or create entirely new ones from the English-language files. There's been enough editing of the (English) V2.4.x files to create V2.5 that I'd tend toward the latter choice unless I were sure the German-language versions were already in pretty good shape. I'm sure Francis Tisserant and others who worked so hard to bring the French-language versions up to snuff last year would choose differently:-) Either way, when you're done, you can simply announce them on the developers list and see what they suggest you do. Thanks again for the offer. Regards, Kent -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
