Re: [E-devel] E16 - what next?
I know removing the default theme(s) might be strong and some people will hate it, but frankly, that's the idea! I don't want to use old themes, alot of people associate darker themes and thats stuck with E's reputation, but we do and have done crisp and clean better than anyone for ages. With DR17 we'll obviously need at least one dark theme (ShinyMetalish) but DR16's had it long enough. The file size is a going point, maybe just moving to 2 themes would be good and make sure we point people to others out there, maybe it's time to rehash the e.org themes page. Maybe one theme from pixelhead and one from tokyo and we can get under 10M? benr. Ben Rockwood wrote: [snip] New default themes would probly be R-9X, 23oz of Glass, and Axios. We can either leave the old themes in for historical purposes or drop them for all new themes, in which case I'd probly add Cored to the list of new ones. Does anyone object to this? benr. [snip] Please don't change the default theme. Or certainly don't remove it. It's the one I like best. -- In Reach Technology:http://inreachtech.net/ Robert G. Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 559.304.5122 I'm having BEAUTIFUL THOUGHTS about the INSIPID WIVES of smug and wealthy CORPORATE LAWYERS ... --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
Since someone suggested a possible change for the next DR16 release would be to shrink the package size I poked around. BrusedMetal is big, 3.7M big. The current package contains 4 themes, BrushedMetal (3.7M), ShinyMetal (1.2M), BlueSteel (650K), and Ganymede (2.4M). The other killer is dox, the pretty spiffy oh so awsome help system that most people look at once and then never again. This is arguable, but I'd imagine that being as DR16 is pretty well understood, we won't get many first time users, and the fact that most new users probly don't read any of it anyway... not to mention the fact that you still have tooltips, we can just dump dox which accounts for another 2.5M. If you take Edox out completely, then remove the default themes and then add in just 23oz and Axios you get a compressed tarball (tgz) at 2.4M instead of the current 12M. But dumping dox is I admit a contrivursial idea, so I'm just tossing it out there. benr. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
warning: first post (de-lurking) Cristalle Azundris Sabon wrote: Mike Frysinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if there was equivalent online documentation for dr16 Good call. Should the menu-generator put that in the main menu then? Start browser (whichever one it found) pointed at e-help? -A- ... Personally I have always prefered documentation in plain text form. I feel that it should at least be provided as an alternative to html. By using a browser as your help system just slows everything down, and introduces bloat. Personally I would prefer a very basic prettyish text file viewer... Prehaps with links or just a table of contents page David --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
At 05:54 AM 11/11/2003, Ben Rockwood wrote: Since someone suggested a possible change for the next DR16 release would be to shrink the package size I poked around. BrusedMetal is big, 3.7M big. The current package contains 4 themes, BrushedMetal (3.7M), ShinyMetal (1.2M), BlueSteel (650K), and Ganymede (2.4M). No offense to Christian, but lose Ganymede, IMO. Maybe ShinyMetal too, but leave BrushedMetal-Tigert by all means. With that, *why* is it sooo big ?? I know it includes sound, so maybe consider dropping that part. Do many people use sound events ? Personally, I find them annoying, but that's just me. Make the dropped themes available from E's website, in various formats, too, NOT at themes.freshmeat.net. There could even be a BrushedMetal-Tigert-Sounds add-on. The other killer is dox, the pretty spiffy oh so awsome help system that most people look at once and then never again. This is arguable, but I'd imagine that being as DR16 is pretty well understood, we won't get many first time users, and the fact that most new users probly don't read any of it anyway... not to mention the fact that you still have tooltips, we can just dump dox which accounts for another 2.5M. If you take Edox out completely, then remove the default themes and then add in just 23oz and Axios you get a compressed tarball (tgz) at 2.4M instead of the current 12M. Same as above, make the help system a additional download. Change the existing built-in help to point to E's website where the dox help can be published instead. Hall --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
At 09:28 AM 11/11/2003, Cristalle Azundris Sabon wrote: Hall Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do many people use sound events ? Personally, I find them annoying, but that's just me. I think they're very much like real alpha that way -- good fun for about half an hour, and then you turn it off and go back to work. I agree. I think Windows enables them by default or maybe it's a certain theme in Windows. The first time I hear a whooosh sound when I minimize a window, I go and disable sounds. I've seen other users who's computers are constantly beeping and swooshing and bonging and wonder how they can stand it Oh wait, I know, they don't know how to disable it ! :-) The fact that E can do sound events is fine, so Raster including it in his theme is understandable. But when a theme is bigger (almost twice as big ?) than the whole window manager, I think one needs to step back and reconsider. Hall --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
On Tuesday 11 November 2003 09:28, Cristalle Azundris Sabon wrote: I think they're very much like real alpha that way -- good fun for about half an hour, and then you turn it off and go back to work. agreed :) -mike pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
Cristalle Azundris Sabon wrote: David Tulloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Personally I have always prefered documentation in plain text form. I feel that it should at least be provided as an alternative to html. Confucius says: easier it is to automagically generate plaintext from HTML than the other way around. : ) So, writing them as HTML and providing a plaintext copy like you suggested would be a very real possibility. By using a browser as your help system just slows everything down, and introduces bloat. So you're saying using a component that's already there is bloat, but writing our own that will only be used in this sole context is not? I think bloat was probably the wrong word. I would rather not wait for mozilla to start up and then have to connect to the internet to be told how to resize a window (for example). Looking into it the size of the documentation comes from the images. The actual documentation is in a modified form of html already, renaming the main file and opening it in mozilla causes it to display all the images and a little bit of content. With some hacking in gimp I managed to cut the E_backgrounds_settings.png file from 256K to 147K with no visible deterioration from the process (that wouldn't be fixed with some care). Essentially I made the background transparent, trimmed the bottom off and cranked the compression right up. I was going to attach it but don't want to annoy all the dialup users, I will send it to any who ask. This could probably be improved further by introducing dynamic image scaling so the image could be saved at a smaller resolution. David (sorry, forgot e-devel first time) --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
At 09:58 AM 11/11/2003, David Tulloh wrote: With some hacking in gimp I managed to cut the E_backgrounds_settings.png file from 256K to 147K with no visible deterioration from the process (that wouldn't be fixed with some care). What does converting them to JPG do to the size ?? I've taken images in PNG format and converted them to JPG with ImageMagick's 'convert' utility and they reduce in size dramatically, sometimes 4x ! I personally can't tell the difference in the images or in their quality. As small as many of these in the help are, I doubt many others could tell either. Hall --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Sound events (was Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:28:23 +0100, Cristalle Azundris Sabon [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I think they're very much like real alpha that way -- good fun for about half an hour, and then you turn it off and go back to work. Yes, a lot of the sound events get old pretty quick. On the other hand, I've grown attached to the SOUND_FOCUS_SET to remind me when I've managed to knock the mouse pointer into another window (the one drawback of using focus-follows-mouse), and SOUND_WINDOW_SLIDE is good for telling me that something on another desktop just popped something up that needs attention pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [E-devel] Re: Sound events
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:43:45 +0100, Cristalle Azundris Sabon [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I activated the self-same feature after my above post, and got sick of it after almost exactly half an hour -- specifically because of the focus change, didn't hear much of the others. You probably have a more subtle sound for it than I do. I'm using the 'SOUND_FOCUS_SET.wav' from brushedmetal-tigert. Just goes 'tick'. Which is pretty subtle, considering something happens. Less annoying than sound, especially if you share an office. I'm a cubicle dweller, so there was only one real solution: http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productTypeId=32productId=31 The denizens of neighboring cubicles don't appreciate my taste in 80's metal... ;) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [E-devel] Re: Sound events
On Tuesday, 11 November 2003, at 14:48:09 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a cubicle dweller, so there was only one real solution: http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productTypeId=32productId=31 ITYM: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=pa_Headphones_NoiseCancelingProductSKU=MDRNC20Dept=pa Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- Argue not with dragons, for thou art crunchy and go well with brie. -- Unknown --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Re: Sound events
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:04:10 EST, Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_Disp layProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=pa_Headphones_NoiseCancelingProductSK U=MDRNC20Dept=pa No, although I'll keep those in mind if I have to spend a lot of time across the hall in the machine room. Supercomputers tend to be NOISY. ;) (Yes, I know there's nicer headphones out there - but they tend to be a waste after a certain point - when the sound card is only so good, even perfect headphones don't make things any better.. ;) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [E-devel] E16 - what next?
Alan Schmitt wrote: I'm thinking of looking at that iconified window patch thingie (the one that adds an option to add iconified windows to the alt-tab list for all desktops). Maybe BAM has an updated patch stashed away somewhere? And other itches I feel like scratching ;-) By all means - scratch away :) /Kim --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E16 - what next?
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 15:16, Kim Woelders wrote: Alan Schmitt wrote: I'm thinking of looking at that iconified window patch thingie (the one that adds an option to add iconified windows to the alt-tab list for all desktops). Maybe BAM has an updated patch stashed away somewhere? Sadly, Ben does not have an updated patch. ISTR the major issue was incorrect iconbox redrawing. I worked on it for a while, but I have no idea how to fix it. Other than that, just a lot of general code neatness, which I could do if there was interest. Oh, and I made a bunch of decisions about the most logical effects of various settings on window lists. I don't remember what they were, but somebody needs to decide if they're the right ones. -- BAM - Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. -- Steven Wright --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
I think shrinking the dist size would be a *really* good move. 11+ Mbyte is ridiculous. Assuming that it would be a bad idea to separate the themes entirely from the code, I like the idea of two (crisp/dark) new lean themes. Sound - It seems to me that the only problem with sounds right now is that they take up some space in themes we consider no longer including in the core distribution. NB! This is one of the things that makes E unique. I think that at least one of the default themes should demonstrate the capability. Dox - On one hand, it's a silly thingy to have, plain text and html doc is so much more standard, the code needs cleaning up (share files with E), and the images use way too much space. On the other hand it's *fast* compared to any other solution, it's different, it's E! I think I'm in favor of cleaning up and compacting images. Also, don't forget that the epplets use dox too. In a separate package? Maybe. We don't want to cut away everything that makes E different, do we? /Kim --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] [PATCH] e16 $DISPLAY
Some X apps and window managers accept a -display command line option. Some use --display. All appear to honor the DISPLAY environmental variable. This bit me some time ago with the Debian menu system, which facilitates changing window managers on-the-fly. Switching to e went horribly wrong because it didn't know what DISPLAY to use. There may be a better way to do this, but no one has complained in the couple of years that I've carried the patch. --- enlightenment-0.16.6-upstream/src/session.c 2003-11-05 12:58:51.0 -0500 +++ enlightenment-0.16.6-debian/src/session.c 2003-11-06 05:07:03.0 -0500 @@ -1196,7 +1196,7 @@ #endif XCloseDisplay(disp); disp = NULL; - Esnprintf(s, sizeof(s), exec %s -display %s, atword(params, 2), dstr); + Esnprintf(s, sizeof(s), DISPLAY=%s exec %s, dstr, atword(params, 2)); execl(DEFAULT_SH_PATH, DEFAULT_SH_PATH, -c, s, NULL); } else if (!strcmp(s, restart))
Re: [E-devel] [PATCH] e16 $DISPLAY
On Tuesday 11 November 2003 18:58, Laurence J. Lane wrote: Some X apps and window managers accept a -display command line option. Some use --display. All appear to honor the DISPLAY environmental variable. -display and --display is just fancy features some apps like to support ... it's cool, keeps you from having to mess around with environment variables ... as for the DISPLAY variable, not honouring it is a horrible oversight :) like you said, all appear to honor it ... as they should ... -mike pgp0.pgp Description: signature
[E-devel] [PATCH] e16 default font handling
raster wrote this patch to provide the fixed font if the etheme's
default font is not available. For an example scenario, start e with
brushedmetal-tigert and a font server that does not have the Lucida
font. e starts with no titlebar/menu/dialogbox/whatver fonts. The
fixed font or whateveryoucallthenonfixed font (scaled?) is probably
always there.
--- enlightenment-0.16.6-upstream/src/text.c2003-11-05 12:58:51.0 -0500
+++ enlightenment-0.16.6-debian/src/text.c 2003-11-06 05:06:03.0 -0500
@@ -203,6 +203,13 @@
/* EDBUG_RETURN_; */
}
if (!ts-xfontset)
+ {
+ ts-xfontset =
+ XCreateFontSet(disp, fixed, missing_list, missing_cnt,
+ def_str);
+ if (missing_cnt)
+ XFreeStringList(missing_list);
+ }
EDBUG_RETURN_;
ts-xfontset_ascent = 0;
@@ -210,6 +217,8 @@
for (i = 0; i font_cnt; i++)
ts-xfontset_ascent = MAX(fs[i]-ascent, ts-xfontset_ascent);
}
+if (!ts-xfont)
+ ts-xfont = XLoadQueryFont(disp, fixed);
}
EDBUG_RETURN_;
}
[E-devel] E16 - imlib2 patch
I don't want to commit it just at this moment. If anybody wants to play with it then grab a patch to current CVS here http://www.woelders.dk/~kw/stuff/e16/e16-imlib2-1.patch Probably some things should have been done some other way :-) I have some doubts about the depth stuff, particularly with the root/other (15/16?) bit thing. How about shm? Isn't that an issue with imlib2? /Kim --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 19:04, Carsten Haitzler wrote: 3. convert images that are not transparent) (ie square) into .jpg and change docs to point to these I just converted all the PNGs from the E-dox directory into JPG and GIF format. GIF is no longer evil, right ?? The Unisys patent ran out I thought and I imagine that was the primary reason for using PNGs. Well, transparency too, so that ruled out JPG. Anyway, here's what 'df -h' says: 860K./gifs 2.0M./pngs 460K./jpgs I'm more impressed by the conversion to JPG than GIF, but you lose transparency... Hall --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Shrinking DR16's Dist Size
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:45:49 -0500 Hall Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bbabbled: (B (B On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 19:04, Carsten Haitzler wrote: (B 3. convert images that are not "transparent) (ie square) into .jpg and (B change docs to point to these (B (B I just converted all the PNGs from the E-dox directory into JPG and GIF (B format. GIF is no longer "evil", right ?? The Unisys patent ran out I (B thought and I imagine that was the primary reason for using PNGs. Well, (B transparency too, so that ruled out JPG. (B (B Anyway, here's what 'df -h' says: (B (B 860K./gifs (B (Bgif is only 8bit color remember though... thats an issue :) (B (B 2.0M./pngs (B 460K./jpgs (B (B I'm more impressed by the conversion to JPG than GIF, but you lose (B transparency... (B (Band in e17 we are using jpeg for theme internals in edje... BUT jpeg that HAS (Balpha! :) thus u will get themes of about the "460k" mark as opposed to 2mb :) (B (Bbut thats just one of the issues being addressed at the most basic level... (Bwe're talking 0.16.x now :) (B (B (B Hall (B (B (B (B --- (B This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, (B 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest (B developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, (B WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ (B ___ (B enlightenment-devel mailing list (B [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel (B (B (B-- (B--- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" (BThe Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] $B7'<*(B - $Bhttp://www.apachecon.com/ (B___ (Benlightenment-devel mailing list (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bhttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
