from:"Ben Apollonio"

Re: [EVDL] Shorted FB1-4001A DC motor?

2016-12-27 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I'm pretty sure terminal resistance is supposed to be 0.03 ohms so a normal 
ohmmeter won't tell you much...  How about spin the motor in neutral with a 
(fused) 12V battery?  Any signs of arcing on the commutator?

-Ben

On Dec 27, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

> Today my HV fuse blew, and after testing my controller, I believe the problem 
> is that my 9"  FB1-4001A DC motor is shorted.  The motor leads are measuring 
> at 0.1 ohm right now.
> 
> Anybody have suggestions as to anything to look at/for before I start the 
> process of removing the motor?
> 
> I may also be in the market for a new/used FB1-4001A depending upon how 
> things go
> 
> Jay
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

2016-11-15 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Amen, Lee.  If quiet cars are truly the problem, the requirement should be 
universal.  Singling out EV's certainly has the appearance - even if not the 
intent - of hostility and intentionally limiting their appeal.  I tend to 
believe the current action is merely a case of narrow-mindedness, but one could 
easily see it abused for anti-competitive ends by the powerful and politically 
connected.  Such tactics are commonplace in business.

I used to be vehemently opposed to EV noise regulations - I can't stand noise 
pollution!  However, the sound my wife's Prius V makes is much less obtrusive 
than I feared and serves as a good model for how this can be done well.  In 
fact, I didn't even realize for several weeks that it wasn't just normal 
fan/inverter operating noise, even though I'd owned an earlier-gen Prius.  
Still not as pleasant as my own silent EVs, but definitely something I can live 
with, especially if it saves lives.

-Ben

On Nov 15, 2016, at 12:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
>> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough
>> and pleasant?
> 
> It's always seemed to me that my EVs make plenty of noise (tires, wind, 
> transmission and differential gear noises, motor whine, controller whistles, 
> etc.) without having to add any explicit noisemakers. They're about the same 
> as most new ICEs. Some luxury ICEs are even quieter.
> 
>> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious.
>> But still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise
>> from our current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
> 
> If we're going to set some new standard, I think it should apply to *all* 
> vehicles, ICE as well as EV. That will prevent EV-haters from legislating 
> obnoxious standard *on purpose* to discourage EVs. It would also put the 
> general public on our side, as they don't want their ICEs to be deliberately 
> made noisy or obnoxious.
> 
> -- 
> It is the responsibility of every American to be informed. Those who expect 
> to be both ignorant and free, expect what never was and never will be. -- 
> Thomas Jefferson
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

2016-01-20 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

On Jan 20, 2016, at 11:13 AM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> If you are planning on plugging in an EV daily into a 120 volt outlet, you 
> would likely want to eventually change it out for a "hospital grade" type 
> receptacle. These are really designed to take constant, daily, disconnection 
> and reconnection use and are constructed of _far_ better materials than a 
> standard receptacle. They cost at least 5 times as much as a standard 
> receptacle, of course.

I second that!!  Although the availability of "hospital grade" outlets is news 
to me, I have overheated/burnt/melted too many 120V outlets trying to charge my 
EV at just 12A.  I use a heavy duty 12AWG cord too.  I have found that the more 
industrial-looking plugs at your hardware store tend to fit tighter into the 
outlets and have fewer overheating problems.

I'm actually seriously considering adding some sort of temperature sensor to 
the plug.  I think Tesla did this in response to their melted connectors issue.

-Ben

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: This Is The GM-200mi EV Before You Are Supposed To See It (v)

2016-01-08 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Indeed - the Bolt display appears to me to indicate how the energy has been 
spent in an almost pie chart (pink, purple, green).  The pink icon (arrow) 
suggests driving energy, the purple icon (snowflake) suggests climate control 
and the green (battery) I guess might be 12V.  If my reading is correct, 
roughly 50% of the energy went to climate -- not unexpected when you're giving 
tours to reporters.

-Ben

On Jan 8, 2016, at 12:08 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
wrote:

> On 7 Jan 2016 at 17:31, Willie2 via EV wrote:
> 
>> I commented that such high consumption was not unusual early in a trip
>> in cold weather with a cold battery.  The Bolt display clearly
>> indicated only the first part of a trip, ~10 miles. 3) I cited some
>> Tesla numbers, in cold weather with a cold battery, that approached the
>> Bolt numbers. 4) From there, discussion went on to warming batteries on
>> shore power thus circumventing that high initial energy consumption
>> from the battery. 
> 
> Ah, that explains where it came from.  Sorry, I should have read your note 
> more carefully.  Thanks for clarifying, and my further apologies if I 
> sounded (read) a tad cranky there.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Charging Profile: Charge to 80% capacity (quickly)

2016-01-05 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Hi Jay,

I think your approach is good.  Some chargers (Elcon, at least) let your BMS 
throttle charge current with an external voltage signal.  If your charger 
supports this, you could try wiring up a comparator and a flip-flop to latch 
the signal at 0A when you hit your target voltage at 30A.

Cheers
-Ben

On Jan 3, 2016, at 9:28 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

> I want to charge at maximum current to 80%, and then shut off. My thoughts on 
> this subject are listed as text below, or you can follow this link to see the 
> images of my charging profiles:
> 
> http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/03/default-charging-profile-charge-to-80-capacity-quickly/
> 
> I welcome any comments about issues or tricks I may have overlooked.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> Because I have a relatively short commute, and rarely anticipate needing my 
> full 100% pack capacity, I have chosen to charge my truck to an 80% SOC on a 
> daily basis to maximize battery life. One nice thing about the 80% level is 
> that most batteries can be charged at a relatively high rate of speed up to 
> 80%, and then you need to slow down the charging a bit to prevent them from 
> overheating. (This is why DC Quick Chargers will quickly bring an empty 
> battery up to 80%, but then slow down quite a bit after that.)
> 
> My first attempt at programming an 80% charging profile was very simple, just 
> set  MaxV to 128.5 and set the TermC (termination current) to 2 amps. This 
> works well, it gets the pack voltage up to 128.5 volts and holds it there 
> until the battery stops accepting much current. The only issue is that it is 
> wasting time, because for a good amount of the charging period the current 
> flowing into the battery is less than the maximum 30 amps (4.0 kW) that the 
> chargers can produce. The charging curve looks like this:
> 
> http://www.summet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/charging_2amp_cutoff.png
> 
> 
> 
> In an effort to speed up my charging, I set the MaxV to a higher amount ( 
> 128.9 volts) so that at the 128 volt level the battery pack would still be 
> accepting a higher current, and then set my TermC to the highest level my 
> EVCC allows (10 amps). This results in a charging curve that looks like the 
> following:
> 
> http://www.summet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/charging_10amp_cutoff.png
> 
> 
> As you can see, I spend more time delivering 30 amps before the current draw 
> from the pack starts to drop off, and the curve reaches the cutoff point much 
> quicker. My EVCC currently limits the TermC parameter to 10 amps or less, 
> probably because they have not anticipated somebody trying to charge only to 
> 80% as quickly as possible.
> 
> If I could set the TermC parameter to 20 or 25 amps it would allow me to set 
> the MaxV up higher (131?). The goal would be to find a voltage setting such 
> that the pack would be drawing 20 or 25 amps right when it hit the 128.5 volt 
> level. So my curve would basically be flat, full on charging at 30 amps up 
> until the very end when it would start to taper off and the charging would 
> end at 25 or 20 amps.
> I’m not worried about setting the MaxV higher than the actual voltage I’m 
> attempting to hit, as it is still much lower than my pack’s actual max 
> voltage, and if something were to change with the pack chemistry making it 
> miss the TermC cutoff, the MaxV would still stop the pack from reaching 100% 
> charged. (and the termination timeout would eventually hit.)
> 
> This is the end of my main thought, but you can continue reading for…..
> 
> Extra Info about my pack, charging to the 80% level, etc…
> 
> The 48 modules from my Nissan Leaf battery pack (LMO/LNO chemistry)  are 
> arranged in a series of sixteen sets of 3 parallel cells. This gives me a 
> 180Ah battery with an absolute maximum voltage of 134.4 (4.2 volts per cell). 
> In actual use the 4.2 VPC level should never be reached, if you charge the 
> cells to 4.1 volts per cell they are around 99% charged. As the extra 0.1 
> volt difference between 4.1 and 4.2 doesn’t really buy you much extra 
> capacity,  most people use 4.1 volts per cell (131.2 volts) as a safe “full” 
> or 100% capacity on the Leaf Cells.  My Mini-BMS units will start to shunt 
> voltage at 4.1 VPC, and raise an over-voltage alarm at 4.2 VPC.
> 
> However, if you charge the cells to 4.0-4.01 VPC (128-128.5 volts) that 
> corresponds to about 80% of their maximum possible capacity. To maximize cell 
> and battery pack life, you want to minimize the time the cells are fully 
> charged or fully discharged. If you can keep the cells between a 10%-80% 
> state of charge (SOC) it will maximize their battery life.
> 
> Keeping them above 10% SOC is easy…don’t drive until they are empty. Keeping 
> them at or below 80% SOC is also easy, simply turn off your charger when they 
> are only 80% charged.   This is why the early Nissan Leafs had the option to 
> only charge the battery to 80%. (Removed in

Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Ten states impose flat EV fees, Georgia is highest

2015-12-06 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I agree we should incentivize low-pollution vehicles, but this is is actually a 
punitive road use fee.  Georgia's gas tax is $.075/gallon.  If you drive 16k 
miles/year (US average) at 22MPG (rough average accounting for older cars), 
you're paying about $55 toward road maintenance.  The $300 EV fee is 5.5x as 
high - you'd have to drive almost 90k miles/year for the fee to be fair.

Georgia also ended their $5k tax credit for buying EV's.  So they get 
historical credit for extremely generous incentives, but unfortunately one of 
our political parties has since decided that action to limit climate change and 
pollution is a sin, even when it's committed voluntarily by individuals.

-Ben

On Dec 6, 2015, at 7:37 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:

> I say again, I am not opposed to a road use fee added to EV's AS LONG AS
> THE SAME amount is applied to all ICE cars as a fee for their use of the
> air we breath.  Yes, EV' are getting a free ride on the gas tax, but ICE's
> are getting a free ride on the environment and THAT HAS TO STOP!
> 
> Bob, WB4APR
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV 
> wrote:
> 
>> The Idaho charges aren't QUITE as bad as they look ($100 hybrid and $150
>> EV).  Due to a shortfall in road maintenance revenue, they passed a law
>> this year charging an additional levy when vehicle license is renewed.
>> Normal vehicles also get an extra tax, but less than above.  I believe the
>> non hybrid vehicle fee is about $40.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> On December 6, 2015 1:59:57 AM MST, brucedp5 via EV 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/01/ten-states-impose-ev-flat-fees-georgia-highest/
>>> Ten states impose EV flat fees; Georgia is highest
>>> Dec 1st 2015  Danny King
>>> 
>>> [image
>>> 
>> http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/800x450/format/jpg/quality/85/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/midas/a61247bb248c07ecbd3ff545ce8ea090/203057143/41e7831c9fda4726ac9a33fa2f9a3666.jpeg
>>> ]
>>> 
>>> Washington, Colorado, Virginia And Oregon Also On Growing List
>>> 
>>> Plug-in vehicle advocates will certainly have Georgia on their mind
>>> after
>>> reviewing a US Department of Energy list of the ten states that impose
>>> special fees for plug-in vehicles. These fees were put into place in
>>> order
>>> to offset the revenue shortfall from more fuel efficient vehicles,
>>> electrified powertrains, and the resulting lower gas taxes. Georgia
>>> charges
>>> the highest fee out of any state in the country for plug-in vehicles.
>>> Idaho
>>> is a distant second.
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] article: World’s first 1 megawatt all-electric race car to compete at Pikes Peak

2015-04-02 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Really?  I was pretty sure the title of first megawatt all-electric race car 
went to the Maniac Mazda over a decade ago...

-Ben

On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Seems reasonably legit. Nothing about it seems unreasonable.
 
 http://driveeo.com/blog/racing/eo-pp03-one-megawatt-electric-race-car/
 
 The pp03 refers to Pike's Peak #3, and they ran it last year and the year 
 before:
 
 http://driveeo.com/pikes-peak/pp02/
 
 http://driveeo.com/pikes-peak/pp01/
 
 b
 
 On Apr 1, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Paul Wujek via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 It's April 1, so maybe this is true:
 
 http://www.electricautosport.com/2015/04/worlds-first-1-megawatt-all-electric-race-car-to-compete-at-pikes-peak/
 -- 
 *Paul Wujek* p...@rogers.com about http://goo.gl/3jnMdX
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 
 
 -- next part --
 A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
 Name: signature.asc
 Type: application/pgp-signature
 Size: 801 bytes
 Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
 URL: 
 http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150401/8224f214/attachment.pgp
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Cold Charging Lithium Experiences

2015-02-23 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Lots of great info on this thread!  I was actually revisiting the literature on 
this recently myself.  Although my 914 is garaged for the winter, it happens to 
be at home this year (with its transmission in pieces), and I wanted to top off 
the battery in case we lost power in all the crazy weather we've had up here in 
the Northeast -- I figured it could probably run my fireplace insert for 
several days.  Ultimately, I decided it wasn't worth the risk.

I would avoid charging below 5 degrees C if at all possible (to account for 
measurement error, etc), and if you must charge, do so at very low rates (C/20) 
and stay away from 100% SoC.  It is really hard to find good literature on 
exactly what's tolerable for existing technology -- most seems to be examining 
novel electrolyte formulations; generally, I gather that some charge acceptance 
is possible below 0, but it's very limited, and it gets worse as the cell 
approaches full.  If you have an ICE, suck it up  burn some gas when the 
weather is this nasty.  If you must drive your EV all winter, consider battery 
heaters or a space heater in your garage.  I think the jury is out on whether 
or not lithium plating also presents a safety issue, but I for one don't want 
to take any chances.  I've heard rumors of A123's having good low-temperature 
charge performance, but I wouldn't assume that extends to CALB -- it may have 
more to do with the nanoparticles and ridiculous rate capability than the 
electrolyte or chemistry.

While we're at it, if you're even at 5 degrees, you should be limiting your 
charge rates.  Ion mobility is not a step function!  Lithium plating happens 
when you apply more charge current than the cell can accept; if the cell, or 
even a localized portion of the cell, is saturated, its voltage rises and 
lithium is deposited on the anode.  The same thing would happen even at 25C if 
your charge rate were high enough.  For what it's worth, my Tesla is extremely 
stingy about low-temperature charging; it won't apply any charge current until 
it has warmed the battery and it starts limiting charge and regen currents at 
temps as high as ~50F (10C).  Given their close relationship with Panasonic and 
the effort they've put into maximizing both battery life and usability, I have 
to imagine that if charging below freezing could be done safely they'd be doing 
it.

Maybe someone ambitious and willing to burn some cash could try some 
experiments for us.  Lithium plating leaves a discernible voltage signature in 
the cell's discharge curve, in which the voltage during the first portion of 
the curve is inflated, then falls back to normal partway through the cycle.  
Buying several CALB cells, instrumenting them with good equipment, and testing 
them for several cycles each at various temperatures/charge rates would 
probably be sufficient to determine where the threshold of plating lies; then a 
little conservative extrapolation will give us a safe operating area.  Not 
really an option for me even if I had the money, since my cells are ThunderSky 
and can't be bought anymore.  Example voltage curve 
http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/158/4/A379/F13.large.jpg  (the full article is 
paywalled but google takes you to the image).

-Ben

On Feb 23, 2015, at 1:38 PM, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Christopher,
 
 This is going to be different for every anode chemistry and electrolyte
 package.  Now that reliable shorter time interval testing is possible, we
 may start to see better information like you are asking for.  I think you
 are stuck with being careful and not really knowing.  Heat your pack when
 charging below freezing - certainly, absolutely, below 0°F.  YMMV.
 
 I would guess C/10 might be OK,  based on nothing at all.
 
 Start pushing the people you buy cells from to get good testing done - or
 else you will buy from someone who does do it.  That is the only way it
 happens.
 
 Mike
 
 On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Christopher Darilek via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 I've heard this same thing but was not clear on how low of a rate.  Does
 anyone know?  Around C/10?  Or lower?
 -ChrisChris' 1972 BMW 2002
 
 |   |
 |   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
 | Chris' 1972 BMW 2002Owner Chris Darilek Location Austin, Texas US map
 Web WebPage Vehicle 1972 BMW 2002 Motor Advanced DC Series Wound DC
 Drivetrain 9 motor, standard ... |
 |  |
 | View on evalbum.com | Preview by Yahoo |
 |  |
 |   |
 
 
 -- 
 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html
 
 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 *Warren Buffet*
 
 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 550-2430 Land
 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 -- next part --
 An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
 URL:

Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV

2015-01-16 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

A lot of charities and even public radio stations accept old cars as donations. 
 Shop around to see if your car might be of value to one of them.

-Ben

On Jan 13, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer.  So
 I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car.  What's
 the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard?  Do you have to
 pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands
 for whatever remaining parts it may have?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Bill
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 9-Inch ADC Motor Max Voltage

2015-01-10 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I run a 9 ADC from a 53-cell LiFePO4 pack (170V nominal); I've only put about 
5000 miles on the car, but no issues so far.  That said, I've had issues with 
rotor balance, so I tend to operate at lower RPM's, which means I'm limiting 
the DC voltage across the motor.

-Ben

On Jan 9, 2015, at 5:59 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Can a 9-inch ADC motor handle being run at 178 volts nominal?  
 
 Thanks,
 
 Bill Dennis
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Tesla EV downs utility pole in Paramus, NJ jamming evening traffic

2014-12-03 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Hi Bruce,

First, let me say that I enjoy your newswires and appreciate all the effort you
put into the EV community.

...but I really don't think some idiot crashing a Tesla is list-worthy news.

-Ben

On Dec 3, 2014, at 4:37 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

http://cliffviewpilot.com/electric-car-downs-utility-pole-in-paramus-jamming-evening-rush/
Electric car downs utility pole in Paramus, jamming evening rush
December 1, 2014 | Boyd A. Loving

[image / Boyd A. Loving
http://cliffviewpilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/paramusfarviewpoledown.jpg
(EV)

http://cliffviewpilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/paramusfarviewpoledown.jpg
(pole, ambulance)
]

ONLY ON CVP: Evening rush-hour traffic in the center of Paramus was slowed,
continuing past 6:30 p.m., after a Tesla downed a utility pole.

Paramus firefighters extricated the driver, who was taken to Hackensack
University Medical Center with the assistance of a paramedic team from The
Valley Hospital, after the 4:10 p.m. crash on Farview Avenue.

Farview was closed in both directions between Midland and Haase Avenues.
Gridlocked traffic conditions on Midland Avenue resulted.

Paramus police, EMS workers, firefighters and Heavy Rescue all responded.

The car, which ended up on a nearby front lawn, was removed by a flatbed tow
truck.
[© 2014 Cliffview Pilot]

https://www.facebook.com/cliffviewpilot/posts/10152792607706355
December 1 at 3:31pm ·
ONLY ON CVP: Car downs utility pole in Paramus, jamming evening rush
ONLY ON CVP: Evening rush-hour traffic in the center of Paramus was slowed
after a sedan downed a utility pole. The driver was taken to Hackensack...
... Comment ...
Gregory Antonetti Looks like a Tesla. Interesting job the rescue squad, I'm
sure.
2 · December 1 at 3:38pm ...

Valerie Hughes That Farview/Midland intersection is a bitch.
December 1 at 4:17pm

Richard Genberg Jr. Whole town of Paramus was a mess.
December 1 at 4:27pm

Daniel Hamlin It was a tesla and it was interesting. We had training on them
a few months ago. Training pays off
December 1 at 6:40pm ...

[dated]
http://cliffviewpilot.com/suv-rolls-after-hitting-utility-pole-in-paramus/
SUV [ice] rolls after hitting utility pole in Paramus
by: Jerry DeMarco October 14, 2014
...
http://cliffviewpilot.com/firefighters-free-driver-after-chevy-4x4-slams-into-utility-pole-in-teaneck/
Firefighters free driver after Chevy 4x4 [ice] slams into utility pole
Sep 26, 2014 YOU SAW IT HERE FIRST: New Milford, River Edge, and Teaneck
firefighters freed a 17-year-old Bergenfield driver trapped in his 4×4 ...
...
http://cliffviewpilot.com/car-rams-utility-pole-in-paramus/
[ice] Car rams utility pole in Paramus
June 6, 2014
...
http://cliffviewpilot.com/pickup-truck-takes-out-paramus-utility-pole/
[ice] Pickup truck takes out Paramus utility pole
Mar 13, 2014 YOU SAW IT HERE FIRST: The driver of a Ford F-350 tandem-axle
pickup truck escaped injury late this afternoon after it barreled off
Paramus ...
...
http://cliffviewpilot.com/car-splits-utility-pole-on-route-17-in-paramus/
[ice] Car splits utility pole on Route 17 in Paramus
Mar 12, 2014 YOU SAW IT HERE FIRST: A female driver was transported to a
hospital by ambulance after her Honda Accord sheared off the bottom half of
a ...

For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3DEVLN%2Bbrucedp2%26days%3D0%26sort%3Ddate

{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-EV-downs-utility-pole-in-Paramus-NJ-jamming-evening-traffic-tp4672915.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf owners – beware the gas station car wash!

2014-10-13 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I steer clear anyway.  They can scratch the heck out of your finish.  And 
windows.

-Ben


On Oct 13, 2014, at 3:43 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 
 
 http://scholarsandrogues.com/2014/10/06/leaf-owners-beware-the-gas-station-car-wash-renewable-journal-for-1062014/
 Leaf owners – beware the gas station car wash! – Renewable Journal for
 10/6/2014
 
 A couple months back, I gave my Leaf a bath in a gas station car wash. I
 came out of it complaining that it didn’t get all the bird poop off my
 pretty new car, but that happens sometimes – some car washes are just not
 that good. The thing that stuck with me, though, was that it was hard to get
 the car positioned right in the car wash, and even harder to get the car out
 of the wash at all.
 
 See, the car wash I was at had a metal ramp, and the coefficient of friction
 of a wet metal ramp is quite a bit lower than that of wet concrete. What
 happened was my electric motor’s torque made the front wheel drive spin out,
 and instead of rolling gracefully up the ramp, I nearly overshot the
 pressure plate that tells the automatic car wash that my car is positioned
 correctly. And when I tried to let my car settle back slightly by taking my
 foot off the brake, the car tried to go forward instead. In my unexpected
 difficulties of navigating a simple car wash I’d forgotten to put the Leaf
 in neutral.
 
 Getting out of the car wash turned out to be even more of an adventure. The
 Leaf’s ultra-low rolling resistance tires were soaking wet and covered in
 partially rinsed-off soap by then, and they wouldn’t grip the wet metal at
 all – all they wanted to do was spin in place. I had to take a lesson out of
 my snowy weather driving manual and actually rock the Leaf back and then
 forward to get enough momentum to get my front wheels out of the depression.
 Not pleasant. I had visions of having to call my wife for a careful push to
 get me out of the stupid car wash.
 
 Something to keep in mind if you’re looking to buy a Leaf – be careful in
 gas station car washes!
 [© scholarsandrogues.com]
 
 
 
 
 For EVLN posts use:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3Devln%26sort%3Ddate
 
 http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094708_electric-vehicles-in-rv-campgrounds-what-you-need-to-know
 Electric Vehicles In RV Campgrounds: What You Need To Know
 
 http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news/local/2-wants-to-know/2014/09/29/eelctric-car-charging-stations-pti-ptia-piedmont-triad-international-airport-greensboro-2wtk-2-wants-to-know/16441077/
 4 L1 EVSE @PTI Airport NC
 +
 EVLN: Energica Ego ultra-fast.it Femme fatale e-motorcycle (video)
 
 
 {brucedp.150m.com}
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Leaf-owners-beware-the-gas-station-car-wash-tp4672090.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
 Nabble.com.
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 'We're developing a prototype battery powered train'...

2014-08-16 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I would think overhead catenary lines would actually be cheaper, and one could 
do that study without building a prototype...

On Aug 15, 2014, at 3:06 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2013/aug/We-are-developing-a-prototype-battery-powered-train/
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?

2014-07-24 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

For your hybrid application, I'd go with the AC.  One word:  regen -- without 
it to recharge the battery, hybrid mode is of little benefit; better to just 
disengage the motor altogether.

I get decent performance out of my Porsche 914 with a single 9 DC motor in 3rd 
gear (although it tops out around 65MPH).  It even starts and drives OK in 4th, 
but the clutch begins to slip.  The lower gear ratio Netgain suggests will keep 
motor speed down, making it easier to to push current when the engine is 
spinning the crankshaft at higher speeds.  However, running slow comes at the 
expense of the torque multiplication in your gearing; ultimately, you'll be 
running the motor hot in a low-efficiency region.  My Porsche performs as it 
does because I have a 170V pack and a 1000A Zilla, but each of those drives up 
the cost  complexity.  At lower voltage, I'd be much more dependent on the 
gearing to have any power at speed, and at lower currents, I'd be much more 
dependent on the gearing to provide starting torque.  And when I actually use 
2nd-4th gear, it's a lot more fun/powerful throughout.

The AC has a better torque profile for a fixed (albeit higher) gear ratio.  
However, given the rating of the motors, you'll probably need two AC-51's to 
get decent performance unless they're upstream of the transmission.

As for the hybrid mode, I would strongly encourage you to take it 
incrementally, because the controls will be a challenge and you don't want to 
be kept off the road while you figure it out.  The vacuum sounds like a good 
idea, but my gut says you'll need inputs from the throttle too.  You'll almost 
certainly require a control processor (possibly Arduino, possibly more 
powerful).  Step 1, IMO, is to make the car work with an EV mode and with an 
engine-only mode where the electric motor just spins freely.  Once you have 
that working, you can tinker with hybrid control schemes all day long.  
Frankly, I think it will be a game of diminishing returns.  Since you're using 
the existing engine instead of an undersized one that relies on the electric 
boost, and since your motor is fixed on the driveshaft (meaning you can't regen 
without also burning energy in compression braking), I think the fuel 
efficiency gains will be limited.  I would say you should think of it more like 
a Honda 
 Civic hybrid than like a Chevy Volt/Prius, except it will have the ability to 
fully disengage the engine for EV-only drive.

-Ben

On Jul 23, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I know the question of AC and DC motors is a controversial one, and probably 
 done to death. But if all y'all might humor me, I'd appreciate a bit of 
 guidance on this.
 
 To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not 
 much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of 
 a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a 
 traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The 
 thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric 
 motors.
 
 I've now spoken with somebody at both HPEVS and Netgain.
 
 The guy at HPEVS wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the plan, but thinks it 
 can be done. He recommends a rear differential ratio in the 6:1 range to make 
 an AC-51 not be miserable. That would require a new 9 rear end for the car 
 and a custom transmission geared appropriately taller to keep the combustion 
 engine happy. He doesn't know much about people doing direct drive or hybrid 
 stuff with HPEVS motors.
 
 The guy at Netgain was most encouraging, and has done something nearly 
 identical to what I have in mind. He didn't recommend any gearing changes; 
 indeed, he suggested that a higher ratio (3:1 or higher) might be better than 
 stock, instead of the other way 'round. He had many very helpful suggestions, 
 such as ways to couple two motors or to get the electric motor(s) to supply 
 most of the power at low speeds and little power at high speeds, thereby 
 maximizing overall gasoline economy.
 
 It seems the beaten path for this type of project is therefore a Netgain DC 
 motor...but I still like the regen capabilities of the AC motors and the 
 reduced maintenance.
 
 I'm aware that only limited efficiency gains are available with regen, but I 
 have a secondary concern. When running in hybrid mode, once the batteries get 
 depleted, the car would become a pure-gas vehicle. It'd be nice to instead 
 use the combustion engine to just barely recharge the batteries enough to 
 still provide acceleration assist -- the same way the Prius and the Volt do 
 things. With regen, that should be straightforward. Without, I'm left 
 thinking of kludges such as using the combustion engine's 12 volt system to 
 trickle-charge the electric motor's batteries, and I'm not so sure that's 
 even safe, let alone possible. However, as a practical matter, this might not 
 actually be a concern if a full

Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries

2014-07-24 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

Too bad A123 went under. Their cells would have been PERFECT.

You could consider the EnerDel high-power modules carried by evolve electrics
(and possibly others, but I haven't seen them elsewhere). They're more
expensive than CALB/Thundersky but better suited to your application. 32Ah/44V
at 160A continuous, 480A for 10 seconds.

http://www.enerdel.com/mp320-049-hc-bo-moxie-battery/
http://evolveelectrics.com/power-modules/

You might also try looking into Dow Kokam cells (www.kokam.com). I'm not sure
if they only sell to OEM's, but I think they sponsored John Wayland at one
point. Similar discharge rates to the enerdel.

-Ben

On Jul 24, 2014, at 10:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

A while ago, I had done some back-of-the-envelope math that told me that I
didn't need to worry much about batteries until the time came to actually
pick which to buy. Now, thanks to y'all, I'm realizing that this may instead
be a show-stopper.

To recap, I have a chance to buy a 1964 1/2 Mustang in good shape for not
much money. The goal is to get something not unlike the driving experience of
a Volt, with an all-electric range of roughly a couple dozen miles and a
traditional Prius-style hybrid range limited only by the gas tank. The
thought is to replace most or all of the driveshaft with one or more electric
motors.

My initial calculations were simply to divide system volts (144) by cell
volts (3.2), and multiply that number (45) by unit Wh and price and weight
and volume and the like. Almost all the options I looked at gave at least 10
kWh for a couple-few grand at a weight less than the average American
passenger, so I stopped worrying about it.

But I now understand that many of those options would only be capable of
putting out 10-15 kW -- an order of magnitude shy of what a pair of 9 motors
would be capable of. And what's the point of having electric motors as
powerful as the combustion engine if the batteries make them act like a
garage door opener?

In the research I've done since then, it seems that the only ways to get to
something capable of supplying the motors with all they can ask for is either
to go with a full-sized battery pack, at much (*much!*) greater cost and
weight and volume or to go some exotic homebrew route that'll likely cost at
least as much, if not even more. In other words, lacking a relatively
inexpensive small battery pack capable of high discharge, there's nothing to
be saved by going the hybrid route. It'd still gain the extended range and
increased performance, but there'd be none of my anticipated cost or space or
weight savings -- quite the contrary.

I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel...but it would completely change the
dynamic of the project.

So...any chance anybody can point me in the direction of a 150 - 200 kW
capable battery with at least 7 kWh capacity (10+ kWh preferred) that
wouldn't break either the bank or the suspension?

I'm willing to put in the time assembling it from cells, but the only cells
I've found so far that I've thought might be up to the task would set me back
five figures, before any sort of management system or the hardware to package
them or the rest. Indeed, these cells:

http://www.quallion.com/new-pdf/QLI1250-18650.pdf

have pretty much perfect specs but I wouldn't be surprised if enough of them
cost as much as an entire Leaf

Thanks,

b
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140724/ed13d309/attachment.pgp
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Question about amp-hr

2014-07-09 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

People talk in amp-hours because it's easy and/or they're being sloppy.
Batteries are sold in standardized packages (1 cell @ 3.6V for lithium, 3 or 6
cells at 6V or 12V for lead) at which amp-hours is the metric used to
differentiate different capacities. But when you build a big series string (as
in an EV), the voltage is arbitrary, so you're 100% correct.

Amp hours are particularly useful for at least one measurement: state of
charge. A lithium battery's amp-hour capacity is pretty much constant no
matter what the discharge rate, while its watt-hour (i.e. energy) delivery
depends on load (because at higher loads, more of its watt hours are wasted
making heat in the cell). Lead's amp-hour capacity is somewhat more
rate-dependent, but still more predictable than energy.

Likewise, amp-hour capacity is independent of cell performance. Two different
lithium ion cells can both be 100Ah at 3.7V nominal, yet differences in
internal resistance can cause them to yield different energy outputs. These
aren't directly specified by a manufacturer, so again, the Ah is an easier
number to grab.

Cheers!
-Ben

On Jul 9, 2014, at 2:17 AM, Larry Gales via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

I know that watts = amps * volts, and watt-hours (wh) is a measure of
energy, but over and over again I hear people talking about EV batteries in
terms of amp-hours. What does that mean if you don't know the voltage?
1000 amp-hr is not impressive if the voltage is, say, 0.1 volts. Is
there some sort of standard voltage, e.g., 3.6 volts, that is assumed when
one talks about LiON batteries? Does amp-hours tell you something more
than watt-hours?

Thanks in advance,--
Larry Gales

--
Larry Gales
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140708/122acf6c/attachment.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] What serious EVs are available, at what price how do they compare?

2014-07-07 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I know it's not a 'true' EV, but definitely don't forget the noble Chevy Volt.
At just $34k before tax credit, it provides decent EV range (unlike the other
PIH), decent performance, a coddled battery that will last forever, actual back
seat and trunk space (unlike the puny Leaf), and versatility that only the
Tesla can rival (at 3x the price). I think its the perfect car for someone who
wants to go EV, needs more than the 70 miles the automakers have settled on (or
lives in harsh climates), and can't/won't throw down a fortune for a Tesla.

That said, if you have the money, the Tesla is definitely the superior car for
99% of your driving needs.

-Ben

On Jul 7, 2014, at 5:41 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

After seeing many misinformed newswires on that topic, that did not state
where EVs are available and at what price so the public can compare, I
thought I would put together this post.

I encourage comments and evdl members to post similarly of what EVs are
available and their prices in their location.

I searched for new non-compliance-car EVs in the SF Bay area. I think it
would be interesting to compare with other regions. My local Mitsubishi
dealership web pages did not list the iMiev so, I left the iMiev out. Here
is what I found:

$32k 2015 Nissan Leaf S Trim r:75mi-EPA, Level-3 charging:CHAdeMO
http://www.stevenscreeknissan.com/new-inventory/index.htm?year=2015sortBy=internetPrice+ascmodel=LEAF;
Stevens Creek Nissan

http://www.nissansunnyvale.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=LEAFyear=2015;
Nissan Sunnyvale

$43k 2014 BMW i3 (EV-only) r:81mi-EPA, Level-3 charging:Combo css
http://www.stevenscreekbmw.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=i3sortBy=internetPrice%20asc;
Stevens Creek BMW

http://westmont.laurelbmw.com/Westmont/For-Sale/New/?ModelId=2432Model=i3
BMW of Fremont

http://www.peterpanbmw.com/inventory.aspx?_new=true_model=i3_sort=priceasc
Peter Pan BMW

http://www.eastbaybmw.com/inventory.aspx?_new=true_makef=BMW_model=i3
East Bay BMW

$70k Tesla Model S 60kWh r:208mi-EPA, Level-3 charging:Supercharger
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/design

All these USD prices are before any rebates and will vary (dealerships mark
up the price wildly to get as much as they can). These prices were the
lowest ones I found on the above dealership websites.

In the following 3 different EVs, they each have level-3 quick charging and
multiple driving modes. These Automakers seem to have made much more of an
EV commitment than all the others. I am using a price to mileage ratio to
roughly compare the EVs' bang-for-the-buck (the lower the number, the better
the deal):

Leaf: ~427 (=32000/75)

i3: ~511 (=43000/81)

Tesla-S: ~337 (=7/208)

The Tesla-S has the best overall deal, and the Leaf is the better
lower-purchase-cost deal.

But besides not being a better cost/range deal, there is another problem
with the i3. There is nil Combo css level-3 quick charging in the Americas.
Therefore the i3 only has a 6kW level-2 charging capability in the Americas.
For some, level-2 is all they need but not having Level-3 quick charging
that is a game-killer for many buyers. They may hardly use it, but it it
there if they want to use it, and it adds to the EV's resale value.

I suppose we could do a similar comparison with the compliance-car EVs, but
why?

Besides being hard to get, harder to get support, they do not have level-3
charging. Also those Automakers could pull a Toyota and abandon their
compliance-car EVs to go fcv just to garner more ice-selling credits. And we
know Automakers and Oil companies are vying for a change when it is time for
the next U.S. Presidential vote (hoping for the same dismemberment of the
CARB mandate that happened under GW's reign).

The newswires talk of more production EVs coming next year, but I say why
wait? If you know what your EV driving needs are, and one of the above fit
them, go for it.

{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/What-serious-EVs-are-available-at-what-price-how-do-they-compare-tp4670257.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Their CEO sez Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV

2014-05-24 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

I think you're missing my point.  I understand it's not free.  But if you were 
to apply Fiat's accounting to other situations, nobody should ever launch a new 
product or start a company because it's guaranteed to sell at a loss for the 
first few months/years after it hits production, regardless of how good the 
margins are otherwise.  Now, you may say Fiat will never sell enough 500e's to 
recoup their investment, which may very well be true, but grousing by the CEO 
about how he hopes people won't buy the car isn't going to help.

Said another way:  once you've already sunk the RD cost, you don't factor that 
past expense it into whether or not it's profitable to continue making and 
selling the product you've already designed/tooled/etc.

-Ben

On May 24, 2014, at 6:35 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote:

 So where does the money for NRE and RD come from?
 
 
 On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Ben Apollonio via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
 wrote:
 On May 23, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  No, there is no economy of scale with the low numbers they are building.  
  That is a fact.
 
 Not on the electric drivetrain, no.  But on the wheels, body panels, dash 
 board, seats, and everything else it has in common with the regular Fiat 500, 
 you bet there is!
 
 
  I developed cam and crank sensors for a while.  The tooling for a cam 
  sensor with 10 small components in it (I am even counting tiny neo magnets 
  and some discreet electronic components and an IC) will easily exceed $300K 
  - 10 years ago.  I am  fairly sure the cost is higher for an OEM (I was 
  doing cost conscious aftermarket).
 
  Or if that doesn't help - what would it take for you to build an entire car 
  that meets all the homologation, safety, blah, blah, blah?   It is 
  incredible how much capital expense there is to bring out a car.  You have 
  to make a lot of cars to break even -  whole lot, and you have to be pretty 
  good at it or you will fold.
 
 RD and NRE are not the same as production cost.  When budgeting for new 
 product development, you do want to amortize it over expected sales, but to 
 come out  grouse that you lose money on each car you sell because you 
 previously spent a lot on NRE is disingenuous.  By that measure, Tesla is 
 still losing money on every car it sells because they spent so much investor 
 money on development, so they should just close up shop because there's no 
 money to be made.  By the same measure, Apple lost gobs of money on the first 
 1000 iPads they sold -- they should have come out and whined and asked people 
 to stop buying them because they were losing 1000's of dollars on every one.
 
 I get that EV's are still a niche market and it's hard to recoup development 
 costs.  Hence why I'm wondering if the compliance car mandate is obsolete -- 
 let the companies like Nissan and Tesla who want to invest have an easier 
 time recouping THEIR investments with less competition from unwilling and 
 whiny rich people.
 
 -Ben
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain 
 happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?  
 Dalai Lama 
 
 Tell me what it is you plan to do
 With your one wild and precious life?
 Mary Oliver, The summer day.
 
 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 
 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 Warren Buffet
 
 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 550-2430 Land
 (919) 576-0824 Google Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 (919) 513-0418 Desk
 
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 
 
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Their CEO sez Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV

2014-05-23 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

How exactly is it that Fiat can't produce a teensy car with a tiny battery for 
less than $46k when small (i.e. lacking economies of scale) upstart Tesla is 
able to rake in 25% gross margins on a massive, high-performance luxury car 
with 3x the battery that starts at 70k (which puts the production cost around 
56k)?  And oh yeah, Nissan turns a profit on its $29000 leaf, too.

Is it possible we don't need compliance cars anymore?  Now that Tesla/Nissan/GM 
have shown that demand is real and are making money off EV's, why force them to 
compete with the deadbeat Fiats of the world?

My $0.02

On May 23, 2014, at 3:54 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 
 
 http://autos.aol.com/article/fiat-chryler-ceo-please-dont-buy-the-fiat-500e/
 Fiat-Chryler CEO: Please Don't Buy The Fiat 500e
 May 21, 2014
 
 [image  
 http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/28007ffd7f2a724d2fc78386e2d1dac0/200147006/01-2013-fiat-500-turbo-review.jpg
 The 500e is costing Fiat $14,000 each time it sells (Fiat)
 ]
 
 Company loses $14,000 on ever electric vehicle
 
 Fiat-Chrysler's CEO had a strange request for electric vehicle shoppers on
 Wednesday: don't buy the all-electric Fiat 500e.
 
 While CEO Sergio Marchionne was speaking at a conference in Washington, he
 told the crowd he's tired of Chrysler-Fiat losing money, The Detroit News
 reported.
 
 I hope you don't buy it (the 500e), because every time I sell one, it costs
 me $14,000, he said to the audience at the Brookings Institution. I'm
 honest enough to tell you that.
 
 Marchionne said federal and state fuel efficiency mandates are forcing the
 automaker to build unprofitable cars, according to Reuters. A normal Fiat
 500 starts at almost $17,300, and the 500e starts at $32,650, before federal
 and state tax credits. There is no sales data to indicate how the 500e is
 performing.
 [© 2014 AOL]
 ...
 http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140521/AUTO0101/305210092/Marchionne-Fiat-loses-14K-every-electric-500
 Marchionne: Fiat loses $14K on every electric 500
 May 21, 2014
 ...
 http://news.boldride.com/2014/05/fiat-ceo-tells-customers-to-not-buy-one-of-his-cars-but-which-one/49355/
 'Fiat-Chrysler CEO would rather customers not buy the Fiat 500e EV'
 22 May 2014
 ...
 http://www.complex.com/rides/2014/05/fiat-ceo-sergio-marchionne-500e
 Fiat CEO: Don't Buy a Fiat 500e
 May 22, 2014
 
 
 
 For all EVLN posts use:
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=evlnsort=date
 
 http://www.autoworldnews.com/articles/7424/20140514/teslas-elon-musk-200-gigafactories-will-be-needed.htm
 Musk sez '200 Gigafactories' Will Be Needed
 
 http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3437155/batteries-sold-first-quarter-2014/
 Sales Of Hybrid And Electric Car Batteries Have Tripled In Three Years
 
 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/latest/panasonic-signs-letter-of-intent-on-tesla-gigafactory/story-e6frg90f-1226914396206
 Panasonic signs 'letter of intent' on Tesla gigafactory
 
 http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/13/5695442/my-house-is-my-gas-station-and-so-is-yours
 My house is my gas station (and so is yours)
 
 http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/05/adorable-elderly-couple-buy-matching-teslas/
 Adorable Couple Buy Matching HisHer Tesla-S EVs
 +
 EVLN: 2014 i-MiEV, most affordable EV in America arrives this spring
 
 
 {brucedp.150m.com}
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Their-CEO-sez-Don-t-buy-the-Fiat-500e-EV-tp4669611.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
 Nabble.com.
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

2014-05-14 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

You say that like it's past tense!  I still have this on my electric Porsche 
914, though only for lack of funds/time...

-Ben

On May 13, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Jan Steinman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 From: Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 
 It had another training system - where you learned never to leave home with
 out a pile of blankets. called air engine cooling/cabin heating.
 
 Also, when you couldn't clean your windshields but you still had washer 
 fluid, it was time to put more air in the spare tire. :-)
 
  I reject get-it-done, make-it-happen thinking. I want to slow things 
 down so I understand them better. -- Jerry Brown
  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

2014-05-09 Thread Ben Apollonio via EV

You, sir, have just described the battery gauge Tesla uses (though the display 
is a tad fancier).  Except they added tick marks every 10% for extra 
convenience.

I find the 'ignorant masses' are capable of learning.  They may not (and very 
likely won't) fully understand what a kilowatt-hour is, but they seem pretty 
good at figuring out that they have 20 of them, they drove 80 miles, and now 
only 2 remain.  Also, they cost $0.12 each (or $0.21 each, 70% of which is 
transmission charge, if you're unlucky enough to have my utility).  Makes more 
sense to give the units their proper name than to make up a non-technical one 
simply for the sake of being non-technical.

-Ben

On May 9, 2014, at 1:22 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
 Well, it doesn't have to be called a kwh meter.  I could be called a
 energy-remaining or, to use the term incorrectly, a power-remaining meter.
 
 Or a fuel gauge. :-)
 
 Given the low cost of graphics displays, how about an icon that looks like a 
 battery? Empty (0% state of charge) has all the pixels inside it off. No 
 energy left; you can't drive.
 
 As you charge it, the pixels light up, one-by-one. The icon could easily be 
 100x100, so there are 10,000 pixels in there. You could easily see the pixels 
 being added as you charge. The charge rate is shown by the number of pixels 
 being added per second.
 
 When the battery is full, most (but not all) of the pixels are lit. The 
 amount that fills indicates how much your battery can hold in its present 
 condition. That will change with temperature, as the pack ages, or gets 
 damaged, etc.
 
 As you drive, you can see the pixels draining out of it. Slowly, or in a mad 
 rush if you're driving fast!
 
 All done without units, so it won't confuse the ignerunt masses. Just like 
 a standard gas gauge; it has no units (no gallons, no KWH). But obviously, 
 you could have an option that shows KWH numbers as well.
 -- 
 Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several
 thousand things that won't work. -- Thomas A. Edison
 --
 Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Peukert # with Lithium Batteries

2014-05-07 Thread Ben Apollonio

With all due respect to Lee and his expertise in so many areas, I believe this
is incorrect.

Lithium Ion has a nearly unity coulometric charge/discharge efficiency.
Although high discharge rates depress the voltage more, and therefore cause
your battery to reach empty sooner, you haven't actually depleted a greater
number of amp-hours. 1.0 is the correct number if you want accurate SoC
representation, particularly if you charge/discharge several partial cycles
before you get to refill to full (and therefore 'synchronize' the link 10). A
higher peukert number may help if you want to know roughly when you'll stop
being able to deliver full current based on ESR, but it won't give you as
accurate a picture of SoC if you aren't charging to full all the time. IMO, a
better approach would be to simply get to know what your battery's ESR is at
various temperatures and SoC.

My 914 exhibits a nearly perfect 1:1 ratio of discharge/charge Ah. The only
appreciable error seems to come from a 0.1A offset in the meter when the car
sits for a couple days. I've also designed lithium ion battery systems for a
number of commercial products.

Finally, I point you to this paper to support my claims:
http://qnova.ca/uploads/3/1/7/2/3172593/a_high_precision_study_of_the_coulombic_efficiency_of_li-ion_batteries.pdf
It's the first result that comes up when you google search lithium ion
coulometric efficiency

-Ben

On May 7, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Lee Hart leeah...@earthlink.net wrote:

Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
I just completed a Lithium installation on my 65 Datsun.
I'm resetting the parameters on my Link-10 E-Meter, and was curious what
Puekert Exponent people were using.
Based on what I've read, I was tempted to use 1.00, but wasn't sure if this
was right.
Have (50) 180 ah CALB CA series cells, nominal 160V, 28.8 Kw pack.

It's definitely not 1.0. Any battery with an internal resistance greater than
zero will have a Peukert exponent greater than 1.

Your best bet is to use the Link-10 to measure the actual capacity of the
pack at two different rates of discharge. There's an equation in the manual
to calculate the Peukert exponent from that data.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen, from Anthem
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Converter Direction of flow

2014-04-28 Thread Ben Apollonio

Maybe probably NOT.

A synchronous non-isolated DC-DC buck converter will act as a boost in reverse
if voltage is applied to its output (unless the designer has taken adequate
protections against it), but the reverse 'output' is unregulated; it gets
limited only by the weakest component when it fails. Most other topologies
will spectacularly do nothing. Isolated converters can usually withstand being
biased at their output. Most EV if not all DC/DC's are of this topology and/or
have another means to prevent reverse current flow. But you won't get what
you're after.

How big a motor? One cheap, easy option might be to use a 'modified sine'
(read: rectangular wave) inverter with a diode and a large capacitor to
rectify its output. Just beware this gives you 170V instead of 120.

-Ben

On Apr 28, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote:

Maybe, probably.

You can do whatever you need to do as long as you can accept the
inefficiency that comes with it, and the smoke that gets out.

If the current is alternating (AC) there are both step up and step down
transformers. (they don't work with DC)

If the current is constant (DC) you can convert or invert.

You can also go from low AC to high DC, or high DC to low AC.

You have to be careful how you language this stuff, just like when you buy
from China you have to worry a little if they mean what you thing they
mean. I am not sure I know what you mean.

If you want to talk about specific part numbers and specs of converters and
transformers then you can get a better answer.

Your first question:
What happens if you apply 12 volts to the output side, will that produce
120 to 140 volts on the input side?

I assume you mean 12VDC and 120VAC. The answer is no if it is a
transformer with a bridge rectifier output. If you meant 12VAC and120VAC -
a 10:1 transformer goes both ways.

If you meant some sort of electronic converter hardware - like a power
supply that takes in wall current and puts out 12VDC, then you cannot run
that backwards.

DC to DC converters - you want to read the spec sheet. I would hesitate if
there are labels saying INPUT, and OUTPUT. The implication there is quite
clear. If they do not say that, then your guess as good as mine.

Or you can hook them up backwards (using eye protection and with your fire
extinguishers handy) and use you meter to see.

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Peter Eckhoff peckh...@nc.rr.com wrote:

The converters that I see for EV applications have the output voltage at
12 volts.

What happens if you apply 12 volts to the output side, will that produce
120 to 140 volts on the input side? or do you need a converter
specifically designed to go the other way?

The idea is to take a 12 volt (or 24 volt) battery with high amphrs and
use the electronics to produce 120 volts at a tenth of the battery's rated
amphrs to run a 120 volt DC motor using lithium based batteries.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
attachments/20140428/6fac4950/attachment.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
group/NEDRA)

--
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A.
Edisonhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell
(919) 513-0418 Desk

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140428/744735eb/attachment.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] New throttle for Raptor?

2014-03-29 Thread Ben Apollonio

I still have an inductive unit kicking around after my T-Rex died a year and a 
half ago.  Contact me off-list if you're interested.

-Ben


On Mar 28, 2014, at 4:48 AM, J Bills jbillsn...@flickfx.com wrote:

 Hi - I was able to score an old DCP Raptor 600 and want to replace my
 Curtis squealer.  Am I able to use a 0-5v potbox or resistive throttle with
 a Raptor?  I've only seen them used with inductive throttle setups, and I'm
 not sure what the voltage was on those or the curve
 
 But I can't say I'm a big fan of the inductive with the springs and all.
 Has anyone adapted a curtis fp-6 style pedal for use with an old Raptor?
 
 Failing that is there still somewhere that might sell an inductive sensor?
 
 Big thanks.
 -J
 -- next part --
 An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
 URL: 
 http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140328/22ff1a86/attachment.htm
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] LFP batts, does full voltage mean, full capity

2014-03-13 Thread Ben Apollonio

Define aren't showing full capacity.  Are you seeing a low voltage (it 
naturally drops after charge)?  Or variations in measured total capacity?  Or 
something else altogether?

-Ben


On Mar 13, 2014, at 1:33 AM, Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video 
k...@peakfoto.com wrote:

 I  had my cell moduals  showing bright green, and that pack showing 
 balncenced out by the way of the  LFP charger and cell modulas .
 Stiill some cells arn't showing full capity . I don't think its damage, or 
 just the voltage being up. I do need to load  test . BUT still seems like an 
 indivaul charger for each cell or parelling the whole pack is the best way 
 for capacity balncing. Thoughts?
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Spark EV @a fraction of the price of a Tesla-S, review

2014-03-13 Thread Ben Apollonio

I doubt yank and crush will happen again.  Tesla is too much of a threat for 
anyone not to want to keep their EV program active, even if it's only a 
contingency plan.  My bigger fear would be Toyota sucking market share and 
investment away from EV's when they start shipments of their Fool Cell car.  
Even then, though, the significant disadvantages of hydrogen infrastructure 
(and fuel cells in general) should keep competition to a minimum.

-Ben

On Mar 13, 2014, at 4:43 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter bruce...@operamail.com 
wrote:

 I am glad Jamie K posted their experiences. It brings clarity to all
 this advertising. And by advertising I mean the Automaker or a
 dealership paid/pushed for a piece like this to be produced and
 broadcasted to the news media outlets.
 
 So, if automakers basically have their quota filled for the required
 period (they either sold enough EVs, or a multiple of pih, or bought
 carbon credits), why are they acting like they are still in the game?
 
 My guess is it is for show, so that CARB and the boards in other states
 do not see them as only making a token effort when we all know that is
 what it really is: just enough effort to still be able to sell the more
 profitable ice models. And or are they bidding their time until the next
 administration is voted in ...
 
 The plugin community of both EVs and pih, has seen a huge change in
 several areas. The growing: 
 -populations of those plugins on public roads (and not just leases, but
 the pubic can actually buy them)
 -infrastructure of public EVSE/charge-points of all levels/types
 -and advertisements of plugins (in news item, TV ad, and other forms),
 making public awareness, and society's acceptance increase
 (+more)
 
 Despite my fears of something unforeseen on the horizon the automakers
 will pull (like the yank and crush of the late 1990's/2000s), the above
 offsets that with joy ( ... it only took 20+ years to happen, ... but it
 'is' happening).
 
 
 {brucedp.150m.com}
 
 
 
 -
 On Thu, Mar 13, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Jamie K wrote:
 
 Having driven both the Spark and the Leaf, IMO the article overstates 
 the performance advantage of the Spark. They both have more than 
 sufficient acceleration for city driving. Meanwhile the Leaf offers 
 important feature advantages.
 
 And Zeke is right, the Spark has a huge distribution DISadvantage. 
 Making the current Spark, sadly, a compliance car. Along with Fiat and 
 Honda.
 -
 
 -
 On 3/11/14 3:27 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
 With a price that is a fraction of the Tesla Model S, the Spark EV has many
 times more potential customers. Basically, the Model S is a toy of the
 wealthy while the Spark EV is clearly built for the masses.
 
 When it comes to the direct competition, the Spark EV holds a significant
 performance edge over the Nissan Leaf, Fiat 500 E, Honda Fit EV and Ford
 Focus electric.
 
 
 Unfortunately, the Leaf and the Tesla hold an enormous advantage over the
 Spark they're actually available for purchase outside of a few select
 states.  That's why I see Leaf's all the time, and a few Teslas driving
 around, here in Colorado, and have never seen a Spark.   If you don't offer
 it for sale, it's hard to compete...
 -
 
 -- 
 http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Lithium for the Price of Lead - Sort of

2014-03-04 Thread Ben Apollonio

Aww man!  If I had any use for an EV battery at the moment, I'd be all over 
that.  But my 17kWh of ThunderSkys (at 2x the price) are holding up quite 
well...

-Ben

On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:11 PM, Danpatgal danpat...@yahoo.com wrote:

 All saw that EVTV is selling the old Better Place packs, shipped from Israel
 and now sitting in Missouri, for $3600 for a 24kwh pack.  It's built by the
 same manufacturer and uses the same chemistry as the Nissan Leaf packs.  It
 comes with worthless infrastructure because it was meant to be swapped, but,
 for these high density cells (a bit lighter than a CALB cell), this could be
 very interesting.  Check out this link:
 
 http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=Betterplacecat=23
 
 
 
 -
 Dan Gallagher
 http://www.evalbum.com/3854
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Lithium-for-the-Price-of-Lead-Sort-of-tp4668230.html
 Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
 Nabble.com.
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] BMW i3

2014-01-17 Thread Ben Apollonio

As far as I know, Tesla actually pioneered that approach to regen, but I've 
seen many reviews of the i3 where people think it's a novel idea.  At first I 
didn't like the feel, but after further thought, it's far superior than the 
Prius model (light regen to simulate engine drag, plus additional regen on the 
brake pedal).  Not only is driving smooth and easy, but you know exactly where 
the line is between regen and friction brakes.  You also get a more responsive 
brake pedal.

-Ben

On Jan 16, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Rush Dougherty wrote:

 Indeed they did! I posted the controller from a 1902 Baker on my web page
 at
 http://www.sunrise-ev.com/Controllers.htm. It had a compound motor, and
 used both regenerative and dynamic braking. In fact, it had no mechanical
 brakes! Just a mechanical parking brake.
 
 I drove the BMW i3 yesterday. It has very strong regenerative braking. The
 more you let up on the go pedal (what do we call the accelerator pedal for
 an EV?), the stronger the regen is. If you don't tailgate the guy in front
 of you, you don't need to brake, it will regen to a stop. And to 'coast',
 according to the display on the dashboard, there is no usage of the battery
 pack.
 
 I really liked it if only for that one reason.
 
 And it has Excellent acceleration... well, I also really liked the
 acceleration...
 
 Rush
 www.TucsonEV.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ___
 Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
  http://www.doteasy.com 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Leaf EV, 84-Mile Range, RearView Monitor Standard

2014-01-14 Thread Ben Apollonio

Wow, that's a dumb requirement by the EPA! I don't think I would buy a
production EV that didn't let me select a max charge less than 100%. I have
far too much experience with the effect on battery life, and I buy my cars to
last, not for a 3-year lease/upgrade cycle.

-Ben

On Jan 14, 2014, at 4:06 AM, brucedp5 wrote:

2014 Nissan Leaf Priced $180 Higher than Outgoing Model

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089545_2014-nissan-leaf-electric-car-84-mile-range-aroundview-standard
2014 Nissan Leaf Electric Car: 84-Mile Range, RearView Monitor Standard
By John Voelcker Jan 8, 2014

[image
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2014-nissan-leaf_100451788_l.jpg
2014 Nissan Leaf
]

The 2014 Nissan Leaf is now rolling off the assembly lines in Tennessee, and
the first examples should arrive at dealerships this week or next.

Now, after a long wait, we have information on the updates to the electric
car for the new model year.

Rated range rises to 84 miles

Most importantly to new buyers, the range of the 2014 Leaf is now listed as
84 miles, up from last year's 76 miles

That number seems like a significant improvement, but in fact the only
change made to the car is the elimination of a software option that let
owners set battery charging to stop at 80 percent.

In other words, the 2014 car has exactly the same battery, drivetrain, and
real-world range as the 2013--only its EPA range rating has changed.

Changing the rating math

Nissan made the change because last year, under EPA rules, the ability to
charge only to 80 percent (which may help lengthen battery life) required
the company to blend of the ranges achieved under 80-percent and 100-percent
charging.

That meant the range of last year's Leaf was rated at 75 miles--barely
higher than the 73 miles of previous model years, despite a number of
electronic and mechanical improvements to 2013 cars that Nissan said
significantly improved real-world range.

This year's range rating of 84 miles thus reflects the range the company
feels owners in temperate climates are likely to achieve.

The 2014 Leaf's combined MPGe efficiency rating is114 MPGe, down
incrementally from last year's 115 MPGe. The unit, standing for Miles Per
Gallon Equivalent, measures the distance a car can travel electrically on
the amount of energy contained in 1 gallon of gasoline.

New standard equipment

Range rating aside, there are very few changes to 2014 models compared to
last year's Leaf, which was considerably updated for 2013.

The major upgrade is that for 2014, the Nissan RearView monitor is now
standard on all Leaf models. It had previously been one component of the
optional Charge Package.

Prices for all 2014 Leaf models have risen $180 to reflect the inclusion of
the former option. The price of the Charge Package option has been adjusted
downward by $50.

There's also a new exterior color, Gun Metallic, which replaces a slightly
different shade of grey called Metallic Slate. The other six color options
are Brilliant Silver, Super Black, Cayenne Red, Pearl White, Blue Ocean, and
Glacier White.

Three trim levels

The 2014 Nissan Leaf continues to be offered in three different trim levels:
the base S, the mid-level SV, and the high-end SL. Options include an
energy-saving seven-speaker Bose audio system and Nissan's AroundVIew
Monitor,

The Leaf S now starts at a price of $28,980, the SV at an even $32,000, and
the top-of-the-line SL at $35,020. There's also an $850 mandatory
destination charge added to each vehicle.

All 2014 Leaf electric cars for the U.S. market are assembled in Smyrna,
Tennessee, as are the lithium-ion cells for their battery packs.

The Leaf's 24-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack carries a warranty of
eight years or 100,000 miles. The company also warrants against capacity
loss below nine of 12 available bars of capacity, as shown on the Leaf's
battery-capacity gauge, for five years or 60,000 miles.
[© Green Car Reports]

http://blogs.automotive.com/1401-2014-nissan-leaf-pricing.html
2014 Nissan Leaf Priced $180 Higher than Outgoing Model
January 09, 2014 - Nissan has announced pricing for the 2014 Leaf electric
vehicle will be slightly higher than the outgoing 2013 model. The
zero-emission vehicle, after tax credits, ...

For all EVLN posts use:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_pagenode=413529query=evlnsort=date

Here are today's archive-only EV posts:

EVLN: Think it through we don’t think you will regret buying an EV!
EVLN: Tesla expands Supercharger network to Wyoming
EVLN: Plugin Drivers Report Impact from Extreme Cold
EVLN: Surprise, the Spark EV has not been crash-tested ...
+
EVLN: VW is all-in with modular platform strategy on their EVs

{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:

Re: [EVDL] boxter ev thoughts

2013-11-25 Thread Ben Apollonio

Ditto.  My 914 can go 60mi on 80% of my 17kWh pack.

Gorgeous car, though.  If the batteries are actually healthy, it's a good find. 
 You definitely couldn't build an equivalent conversion for that price, even if 
you had the donor already.

-Ben

On Nov 25, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote:

 75 miles  range for such a small and slippery car on 32kWh of LiFePO4 seems a 
 bit on the low side.  I'd like to see some more detail on that.  Maybe the 
 cells are on the way out?
 
 MW
 
 
 On 25 Nov 2013, at 00:58, Ben Jarrett wrote:
 
 
 
 Hi All,
 
 Does anyone know anything about this EV:
 
 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/4149890149.html
 
 I have a friend who's somewhat interested in it.  Any thoughts on the price?
 
 thanks,
 -ben
 
 
 
 
 -ben
 www.evalbum.com/4001
 
 
 
 -- next part --
 An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
 URL: 
 http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20131124/6f2b51e0/attachment.htm
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Li-ion life (WAS: Range)

2013-10-08 Thread Ben Apollonio

Indeed!  I believe low charging voltages are, at least in part, responsible for 
LiFePO4's amazing calendar/cycle life.  Also, I am told Tesla's Model S gives 
owners the option to charge conservatively, for life at the expense of range, 
or aggressively for a long trip.  Another part of Tesla's secret is that the 
pack is so large that C rates are kept low, as is DoD for most drives.  That, 
and you don't need many cycles at 265 miles each to hit 100k miles...

I am curious, though:  what do the real world results say from people driving 
homemade EVs?  ThunderSky has been around for a while now; even CALB has been 
around a few years.  I haven't noticed many posts about people replacing 
lithium packs and it's hard to get a feel browsing the EV album how many miles 
people are putting on their lithiums.  So, how many miles have people gotten 
out of their packs?  Are any outright dying?  Maybe we could compile a database 
and make some graphs like that excellent pluginamerica link?  I don't have 
significant data yet, but I'll go first, as an example:

Pack:  54 ThunderSky 100Ah
Age:  3yrs (bought June 2010), in service since March 2012
Miles Driven:  5000
Capacity remaining:  unknown* but have hit 80% DoD several times without issue
Top charge voltage:  3.6V
BMS used:  yes, custom
Temperature Management:  no
Location:  Massachusetts

*one cell was over-discharged last winter after ~2000 miles.  During recovery, 
it accepted 103Ah to 3.6V @ 5A (+/- maybe 5%?).  It has sat idle since...

Cheers!
-Ben

On Oct 8, 2013, at 7:25 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:

 I posted in the past a spec how end charge voltage affects cycle life.
 There are numerous complaints from laptop owners whose battery failed
 just after the 1-year warranty, so most likely they never got more than
 100-200 cycles (which is marginal lead-acid type performance)
 and it appears that laptops tend to charge their cells to 4.2-4.3V wich
 indeed significantly reduces their life, but giving highest capacity.
 Lowering the final charge voltage to 4.1 alone will sacrifice some
 capacity
 but multiply (!) the cycle life by 2 or 3.
 So, I am quite sure that EV manufacturers do not charge their packs
 to the brim and by staying well away from that bleeding edge, give their
 packs a much longer and much happier life - even if they use the same
 technology as consumer cells...
 (but since we have been able to read here how Tesla deviates from
 standard cells, we know that they get special variants and they have the
 volume to make demands...)
 
 Regards,
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] For OO cable hook ups- need crimping tool

2013-10-07 Thread Ben Apollonio

Bob Batson up at EV America in Wolfeboro, NH has one you can rent. I think
it's like $30/week...or month...or something. They ship it to you. That's
what I did. Nice hex crimper. They even included a cable cutter.

Cheers!
-Ben

On Oct 7, 2013, at 5:49 PM, L. Chris Hager wrote:

I'm hooking the four battery modules in the back to the 3 in the front
(modules next to each other are connected by busbar, and on to the
controller, etc, and have some fat cable (over 1/2 in. to outside the rubber
outer, probably a full half, maybe 9/16 for the copper) onto which I have to
crimp the ample connectors I've bought to make the connections. I can't find
a crimping tool bigger than single O size at places like Harbor Freight or
Home Depot. HAS ANYONE found a supplier for a simple one-- not the big
hydraulic type, but one like a really big bold cutter, with (probably)
interchangeable dies? AND- if anyone has one not in regular use that I
could borrow, that's within a 50 mile drive of Washington DC (where I am) and
Boston (where the car project is), let me know!
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20131007/d29b1713/attachment.htm
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Puekert Effect

2013-05-15 Thread Ben Apollonio

Agreed.

I never take my 54 100Ah (Thunder Sky) cells past 80% DoD, but that's enough
for 60 miles range when driving somewhat conservatively in my little Porsche
914, and I haven't had any issues. I do notice voltage sag starting to
increase, but not enough to be of concern. I turned off Peukert compensation
on my LinkPro, and my Ah out vs. Ah in always matches almost perfectly (in
fact, it's more likely to overestimate Ah out). I have some BMS data of a
recent drive that took me to 80% DoD; contact me off-list if you'd like to have
a look at how the cells were doing. Temperature had much more of an effect
than SoC. In terms of discharge rate, I used to have my Z1K set at 1000A
battery/1000A motor and the batteries never complained, but I tuned it down to
500A battery limit to try to baby my cells a little more, perhaps coax a couple
of extra years out of them. My right foot doesn't have enough discipline
without an enforced limit.

Keep in mind that you typically won't be discharging much past 1C, on average,
and that's what the cells are often rated for. Even when they spec lower
(0.3C, 0.5C), if you look at the discharge curves on the datasheet you'll see
1C almost always still gives rated capacity (or at least very close to it). At
50 cells x 180Ah, I imagine you'd be treating them pretty gently, so I think
you can simply go by the published Ah rating x 80%, with a 20% 'reserve'
capacity for emergencies/slop. For reference, my 2400lb 914 uses
1.25-1.5Ah/mile at 173V nominal.

If you switch to lithium I don't think you'll regret it. The chemistry's only
disadvantage in my book is the don't charge below freezing limit. That, and
up-front cost. I get around the temperature issue by having a seasonal car,
but up here in New England I would definitely spring for a temperature
management system if I had a year-round driver. Up front cost is more than
offset by lifetime cost: I was originally looking at 16 Optimas which would
have given me ~13000 miles (500 cycles * 25 miles), and instead I got 17kWh of
LiFePO4 from which I hope to see 100,000 miles (2000 cycles * 60 miles) for
only about 2x the price.

Cheers!
-Ben

On May 15, 2013, at 9:29 PM, David Nelson wrote:

While I see slight variation in the Ah used for a given trip depending on
battery temperature with my TS-LFP100AHA cells in a 2p20s arrangement I
have not had any issues ignoring the Puekert effect with my pack. You
should only use 70-80% of your pack Ah any way which is enough of a buffer
to more than mask any effect, especially with the CALB CA series cells.
There is a YouTube video of someone pulling nearly 1000A from a 180Ah cell
(or was it a 100Ah cell?). The voltage drop was minimal. For all practical
purposes you can ignore it unless you plan on pushing the limits all the
time.

Considering what you are replacing you will see a huge improvement in
range, especially if you only used 50% of your AGM 20hr Ah rating.

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 4:15 AM, Pestka, Dennis J
dennis.pes...@covidien.com wrote:

I saved this old e-mail from Peter, because it really honed in on what the
Peukert Effect does to the range of your EV.
See Below.

Hit it right on the money for my 65 Datsun and its 156V pack of 65Ah
Odyssey AGM's.
I'm thinking of replacing them with (50) CA180FI, 180ah CALB LiFePo4 Cells.

Question I have is the Peukert Effect on these Lithium Cells.
I've heard they're much better that Lead Acid, or AGM's, but does anyone
know the approx. adjustment %

Thanks;
Dennis

950 lbs. of what kind of lead? AGMs don't like to go below 50% Floodies
can tolerate 80% as can Gels.

12V, 8V, or 6V batts? How many? How many AH are they rated for (20 Hr
value)?

Here's a calculation method I've found that seems to match well to what I
get for range (can't remember
where I found it):

(Total pack voltage X AH rating of each battery) = watt-hours (whr) stored

whr stored X 0.57 (adjustment for Peukert effect) X 0.80 (useable DOD for
floodies or Gels) = usable whr

useable whr divided by watt-hours per mile used (conservative value =
300-350; not sure how
aerodynamic the Nash is) = range in miles

Peter Flipsen Jr

Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.evalbum.com/1366
http://www.evalbum.com/3715http://www.evalbum.com/1366

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20130515/db06612c/attachment.htm

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

--
David D. Nelson
http://evalbum.com/1328
http://www.levforum.com

Nokia Lumia 920 Windows Phone 8
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:

[EVDL] 914 Driving Observations

2013-05-04 Thread Ben Apollonio

Well, it's spring again in New England, which means I have the 914 back on the 
road, freshly upgraded with a Z1K, an Elcon DC/DC, and several tweaks.  I've 
started experimenting with different driving techniques and made a few 
surprising discoveries.

The first is that my car actually seems to be more efficient when I'm lazy and 
leave it in 3rd gear all the time!  This is rather the opposite of what I'd 
expect given I^2R losses and the efficiency curves of the motor (ADC 9).  
However, I've noticed my tranny getting quite hot after a long drive, and I 
suspect its losses at high RPM are enough to reverse any gains from running the 
motor more efficiently.  Now, I could probably get the best of both worlds 
using 2nd gear for more efficient starts and 3rd for cruising, but who's 
counting?

Second is that brush timing seems to have more of an effect on torque than I 
realized.  When I was starting in 2nd gear all the time, the car was off the 
line so fast I never noticed any subtleties in acceleration.  However, driving 
around in 3rd, I notice the car feeling sluggish starting out even at 1000A, 
but I can feel the acceleration pick up as my speed increases.  It goes from 
ho-hum to pushed back harder and harder into my seat.  I also never experienced 
this as much because the ol' T-rex did a throttle-to-volts control whereas the 
Zilla does throttle-to-amps, so I can see from the needle that I should be 
getting constant torque based on T=kI^2.  I suspect this is because my motor 
has advanced brush timing; I just never expected the effect to be so 
noticeable!  Makes me wish I had an AC or BLDC motor where I could adjust the 
timing electronically...

Third (not so surprising really) is that there's a definite variation in cell 
performance depending on where they're located in the car.  I have batteries 
distributed in 3 areas:  the front trunk where the gas tank used to live, the 
engine compartment lower rack (quite exposed), and the engine compartment upper 
rack (less exposed).  My BMS streams data via bluetooth, so I was able to log 
cell voltages on my way home today.  It was a reasonably warm, sunny day, but 
dropped to 40 by the time I left work, around 8:00.  Looking at my telemetry, 
there's a definite trend in performance:  the cells in the front trunk were 
noticeably higher voltage and lower ESR than the bottom rack engine 
compartment.  The top rack engine compartment were in between.  There's even a 
trend within the bottom bank, where the ones most exposed to airflow were the 
weakest.  The pack is quite well balanced, so this is clearly due to 
temperature.  It will be interesting to see how it affects the aging of t
 he pack, and which age faster:  the high-resistance cells that are being 
driven closer to their limit, or the lower resistance cells that are being 
degraded faster by high temperature.

Anyway, thought I'd share.  It's been a little too quiet around the list 
lately...

Cheers
-Ben
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin and a fun little mystery

2013-04-11 Thread Ben Apollonio

From one Massachusetts EV-er to another, congrats!

My own was 9 years in the making.  Also, with a Z2K, I think you may have 
grabbed the title of peppiest EV in the state -- unless someone here bought a 
Tesla, of course :)  Seriously, how come everyone out here in the northeast 
builds curtis-controlled lead sleds?

As to your little mystery, my 914 does something similar:  whenever I pass 
through a certain current range, the wind shield wipers go off!  I thought it 
went away when I swapped out my T-Rex for a Zilla (after the former exploded), 
but it came back this spring whens I made some changes.  Someday I'll have time 
to fix it...

Anyway, cheers!
-Ben

On Apr 10, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Jeremy Green wrote:

 So, my Honda CRX EV is finally back on the road after 11 years of inactivity.
 I took the EV apart 11 years ago because the water pump needed to be replaced 
 and there were a few other upgrades I wanted to do.
 Then, my brother moved his shop to another state and then 8 1/2 years ago I 
 had my first kid.
 So, it sat idle for a long time and as these things tend to do (with me), the 
 scope of the project got much bigger.
 I decided to upgrade the controller and replace my transmission with a later 
 model Integra transmission since there were better clutch options and it is a 
 much beefier transmission.
 So, this involved custom mounts and a new adapter plate.  Of course, I 
 couldn't find anyone who had the adapter plate I needed so I decided to 
 machine my own on my CNC machine.
 The CNC machine had been moved to my brother's new shop in RI (from 
 Massachusetts) and needed quite a bit of work to get it going again (again, 
 as I tend to do, I made it a bigger project by replacing the windows 
 controller software with EMC 2 running on linux).
 So, it was quite a while before I actually had the adapter plate machined 
 (December of 2010).
 Anyway, I'm back on the road with a Zilla controller and 64 CALB 100 ah cells 
 (unfortunately, the old blue case ones).  
 I went from having a range of around 25 miles to what looks like 65 and the 
 car is a much more reasonable weight.
 There's a lot to be done still but at least now I can drive the car!
 
 So, on to the fun mystery.  I was testing the car out on the highway the 
 other day and noticed that under hard acceleration, the brake light came on.  
 I was a little confused and thought either the fluid was low and sloshing or 
 that I had messed up the wiring for the idiot lights.  Then I realized that 
 one of my high voltage cable goes right next to the master cylinder and, the 
 float switch for the brake fluid level is a reed switch.  So, under hard 
 acceleration when there was a lot of current going through the cable, it was 
 generating enough of a magnetic field to cause the reed switch to pull in.  I 
 only had to move the cable a tiny bit to get it to go away.
 I expected to be having to track down some problem in the wiring.  I was 
 happy to find it was a simple (and interesting) problem with an easy fix.
 
 Glad to be back among the EV drivers!  I almost broke down and bought a leaf 
 a year or so ago…
 
   -Jeremy
 
 ___
 UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
 http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
 For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] LiFePO4 over-discharge threshold

2013-03-02 Thread Ben Apollonio

Does anyone know the 'do not go below' voltage at which the anode starts to 
break down in LiFePO4?  I know it's somewhere at or below 2.0V but that's about 
all.

My car is parked for the winter.  The other day, I went to fire it up  check 
on the batteries and my BMS refused to unlock it.  Some investigation revealed 
that one of my ThunderSky cells was at 1.16V! (the rest were all at 3.345V).  
It may have been at that level for weeks or only hours, I really have no idea.  
So, after kicking myself for not disconnecting the BMS when I took the car off 
the road, I disconnected everything (I once before saw this particular module 
spontaneously turn on a balance resistor, but after several months without 
incident I thought I'd fixed the cause).  Today I came out to remove the cell 
from the pack and discovered that it had recovered to 2.245V!  It may have 
helped that temperatures have been pretty cold here in New England.  I'm gently 
trying to nurse it back to health in an isolated area with a close eye on 
voltage, temperature, and amp-hours, but I'd want to understand the chemistry 
better before I felt comfortable putting it back in the ca
 r.

I tried looking around the EVDL archives and the internet but couldn't turn up 
any numbers on the cell chemistry.  What's the voltage below which actual 
damage occurs?  Does the fact that the voltage recovered mean that it was not, 
in fact, over-discharged?  Or does it just mean that with things disconnected 
the chemistry stabilized at some minimal potential?

Thanks in advance,
-Ben
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Shorted FB1-4001A DC motor?

Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

Re: [EVDL] Where 20 amp receptacles are required

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: This Is The GM-200mi EV Before You Are Supposed To See It (v)

Re: [EVDL] Charging Profile: Charge to 80% capacity (quickly)

Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] Ten states impose flat EV fees, Georgia is highest

Re: [EVDL] article: World’s first 1 megawatt all-electric race car to compete at Pikes Peak

Re: [EVDL] Cold Charging Lithium Experiences

Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV

Re: [EVDL] 9-Inch ADC Motor Max Voltage

Re: [EVDL] Tesla EV downs utility pole in Paramus, NJ jamming evening traffic

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf owners – beware the gas station car wash!

Re: [EVDL] 'We're developing a prototype battery powered train'...

Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: AC or DC?

Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Mustang: batteries

Re: [EVDL] Question about amp-hr

Re: [EVDL] What serious EVs are available, at what price how do they compare?

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Their CEO sez Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Their CEO sez Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

Re: [EVDL] Peukert # with Lithium Batteries

Re: [EVDL] Converter Direction of flow

Re: [EVDL] New throttle for Raptor?

Re: [EVDL] LFP batts, does full voltage mean, full capity

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Spark EV @a fraction of the price of a Tesla-S, review

Re: [EVDL] Lithium for the Price of Lead - Sort of

Re: [EVDL] BMW i3

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Leaf EV, 84-Mile Range, RearView Monitor Standard

Re: [EVDL] boxter ev thoughts

Re: [EVDL] Li-ion life (WAS: Range)

Re: [EVDL] For OO cable hook ups- need crimping tool

Re: [EVDL] Puekert Effect

[EVDL] 914 Driving Observations

Re: [EVDL] EV Grin and a fun little mystery

[EVDL] LiFePO4 over-discharge threshold

36 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information