Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[George Tyler via EV]

there are many ways to do it, in the one George Spratt did he did not use
any of the original computers, just a starter motor and a 3 PH bridge on the
MG to provide DC. I don't really know which way would be best at the moment.
The Prius engine is very efficient, and that is past of the reason for the
low fuel consumption. Narrow piston rings and bearing shells etc to reduce
friction 13.5 to one compression etc. Also the "miller cycle" so you can
reduce output power by changing the inlet valve timing, this, together with
the 16 valve setup can almost eliminate pumping loss to give diesel like
economy. You could take out either MG1 or MG2. and some of the mechanics to
reduce weight. The engine it's self is the same as the NHW20, it's just used
at lower revs and the "gearbox" is very similar too, only reason for using
the NHW10 is that I have a couple, and they are available here very cheap.
You could use a NHW11 in USA. The NHW20 has the DC-DC converter which could
make it easier to match the MG output voltage to the EV's battery voltage.
What car do you have in mind?

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water
via EV
Sent: 17 February, 2017 9:00 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

The Prius is not the first vehicle I would consider for this, but if you are
going down this track then there are a couple remarks / additions /
questions:

- Are you suggesting to essentially do the "pusher-trailer" by using the
motive (front wheel drive) power from the Prius? If that is the case then
the optoin to generate electricity and recharge the EV pack is just an
additional benefit, not the main feature of the trailer, since you can use
the trailer to maintain speed and only use the EV power to accelerate.

- you will have to keep a 300V (273.6V nominal) battery pack, which is not
the strong point especially of the NHW-10 with its D-cell stacks.

- if your EV pack is close enough to the 300V of the Prius, you might
consider hooking it up instead of the Prius pack and add a resistor divider
array (19 resistors) to keep the Prius BMS happy if needed to keep the Prius
going. Added benefit could be that the Prius will maintain (charge) the EV
pack if indeed close enough in voltage, but even a low lower voltage can be
used to allow the Prius to start its engine, my NHW-11 still made attempts
to start the engine at 150V battery voltage.

If you are unable to use the EV pack or simply don't want the direct EV
battery connection to cross over the hitch, you can still consider running a
charger off the Prius pack and use it to re-charge the EV while driving.

The interesting thing is that Prius has electronic throttle control and
accelerator pedal sensor, no direct linkage. So controlling it from the
pulling vehicle is a lot simpler.

If you are after an efficient pusher-trailer then even getting a cheap
(crashed) NHW-20 (2004+) should be considered. They do not even run the
engine until you press the accelerator or there is a need (battery
charging) so you can have it sit "idle" with the engine off until you need
the pusher trailer to start moving and simply pushing the accelerator will
start the engine and get you going!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of George Tyler via EV
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:22 AM
To: 'paul dove'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

Verne Pavreal asked me to post this: Some time ago he and I were discussing
a range extender generator for an electric Nissan NV200 van he wanted to
buy, came up with the idea of using the front end of a Toyota NHW10 Prius, I
have a few. A friend of both of us in Auckland, George Spratt, has used a
Prius engine/ gearbox on a trailer to extend the range. He tested it against
a Honda inverter/generator (the most efficient he found) and got similar
consumption, so it's probably as good as you can get. George Sprat runs it
on wood gas now. 
Lots of advantages, plenty of power, it's all there, trailer built
in. It could either be a pusher trailer or take out the drive mechanicals
and it's just a generator, or could be both. All the engine electronics is
there too! Depending on which way you go, you may need a starter motor:
there are other cars that are not hybrid that use the same block, so you can
get the starter from

Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

The Prius is not the first vehicle I would consider for this, but if you
are going down this track then there are a couple remarks / additions /
questions:

- Are you suggesting to essentially do the "pusher-trailer" by using the
motive (front wheel drive) power from the Prius? If that is the case
then the optoin to generate electricity and recharge the EV pack is just
an additional benefit, not the main feature of the trailer, since you
can use the trailer to maintain speed and only use the EV power to
accelerate.

- you will have to keep a 300V (273.6V nominal) battery pack, which is
not the strong point especially of the NHW-10 with its D-cell stacks.

- if your EV pack is close enough to the 300V of the Prius, you might
consider hooking it up instead of the Prius pack and add a resistor
divider array (19 resistors) to keep the Prius BMS happy if needed to
keep the Prius going. Added benefit could be that the Prius will
maintain (charge) the EV pack if indeed close enough in voltage, but
even a low lower voltage can be used to allow the Prius to start its
engine, my NHW-11 still made attempts to start the engine at 150V
battery voltage.

If you are unable to use the EV pack or simply don't want the direct EV
battery connection to cross over the hitch, you can still consider
running a charger off the Prius pack and use it to re-charge the EV
while driving.

The interesting thing is that Prius has electronic throttle control and
accelerator pedal sensor, no direct linkage. So controlling it from the
pulling vehicle is a lot simpler.

If you are after an efficient pusher-trailer then even getting a cheap
(crashed) NHW-20 (2004+) should be considered. They do not even run the
engine until you press the accelerator or there is a need (battery
charging) so you can have it sit "idle" with the engine off until you
need the pusher trailer to start moving and simply pushing the
accelerator will start the engine and get you going!

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of George Tyler
via EV
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 11:22 AM
To: 'paul dove'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

Verne Pavreal asked me to post this: Some time ago he and I were
discussing
a range extender generator for an electric Nissan NV200 van he wanted to
buy, came up with the idea of using the front end of a Toyota NHW10
Prius, I
have a few. A friend of both of us in Auckland, George Spratt, has used
a
Prius engine/ gearbox on a trailer to extend the range. He tested it
against
a Honda inverter/generator (the most efficient he found) and got similar
consumption, so it's probably as good as you can get. George Sprat runs
it
on wood gas now. 
Lots of advantages, plenty of power, it's all there, trailer
built
in. It could either be a pusher trailer or take out the drive
mechanicals
and it's just a generator, or could be both. All the engine electronics
is
there too! Depending on which way you go, you may need a starter motor:
there are other cars that are not hybrid that use the same block, so you
can
get the starter from one of those like George Sprat has done. Engine
produces 40kw, but you may have to use both MG's to send all this to the
batteries. If you use a lot less you can set the valve timing to
optimize
consumption.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via
EV
Sent: 16 February, 2017 5:03 AM
To: EVDL Administrator; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

Alan Cocconi designed the EV1 electronics for GM.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:33 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> The most efficient EV APU I know of was the "Long Ranger" trailer Alan

> Cocconi built for his Honda Civic hatchback EV about 2 decades ago.  
> He used a (Kawasaki?) motorcycle engine.
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/docs/acp_lr.pdf
> 
> I'm not sure the gadget advertised in the flyer linked above is the 
> same as the one Cocconi actually used to drive his Honda EV all over 
> the US.  It says it generates 9kW and "extend[s the] range by 200 
> miles per 5 gallon tank of fuel."
> 
> That would be 40mpg, but I recall reading that the one Cocconi 
> actually used with his Honda, which AFAIK actually could keep up with 
> the EV's energy use on the hig

Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[George Tyler via EV]

Verne Pavreal asked me to post this: Some time ago he and I were discussing
a range extender generator for an electric Nissan NV200 van he wanted to
buy, came up with the idea of using the front end of a Toyota NHW10 Prius, I
have a few. A friend of both of us in Auckland, George Spratt, has used a
Prius engine/ gearbox on a trailer to extend the range. He tested it against
a Honda inverter/generator (the most efficient he found) and got similar
consumption, so it's probably as good as you can get. George Sprat runs it
on wood gas now. 
Lots of advantages, plenty of power, it's all there, trailer built
in. It could either be a pusher trailer or take out the drive mechanicals
and it's just a generator, or could be both. All the engine electronics is
there too! Depending on which way you go, you may need a starter motor:
there are other cars that are not hybrid that use the same block, so you can
get the starter from one of those like George Sprat has done. Engine
produces 40kw, but you may have to use both MG's to send all this to the
batteries. If you use a lot less you can set the valve timing to optimize
consumption.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of paul dove via EV
Sent: 16 February, 2017 5:03 AM
To: EVDL Administrator; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

Alan Cocconi designed the EV1 electronics for GM.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:33 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> The most efficient EV APU I know of was the "Long Ranger" trailer Alan 
> Cocconi built for his Honda Civic hatchback EV about 2 decades ago.  
> He used a (Kawasaki?) motorcycle engine.
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/docs/acp_lr.pdf
> 
> I'm not sure the gadget advertised in the flyer linked above is the 
> same as the one Cocconi actually used to drive his Honda EV all over 
> the US.  It says it generates 9kW and "extend[s the] range by 200 
> miles per 5 gallon tank of fuel."
> 
> That would be 40mpg, but I recall reading that the one Cocconi 
> actually used with his Honda, which AFAIK actually could keep up with 
> the EV's energy use on the highway, got a real world highway mpg of 32.
> 
> For direct comparison, a similar Honda Civic VX or HF hatchback of 
> about the same vintage got real world highway mpg in the 48-56 range.
> 
> I don't think I ever read anything about exhaust emissions from 
> Cocconi's APU.  Anyone know how regulated motorcycle emissions were in the
mid-1990s?
> 
> Cocconi was (presumably still is) a genius engineer.  I don't know 
> about your engineering background, but I know for sure that I 
> personally could never cook up something even that efficient and reliable
in my garage.
> 
> Apparently building an APU isn't quite as simple as just chucking a 
> genset in the back and plugging your EV's charger into it.  We've had 
> quite a few discussions of fueled APUs on the EVDL over the years, and 
> I recall reading reports of burned-out gensets, chargers, even
controllers.  Be careful.
> 
> Honestly, I think you'll get better results overall by just keeping an 
> ICEV in the garage for long trips -- or renting one when you need it.  
> Or you could just buy yourself a Chevrolet Volt. Be aware that the 
> Volt's mpg in "charge sustaining" mode is decent but not all that 
> impressive.  EPA says 37mpg, and owners seem to get around 34-35.
> 
> But if you're in it for the technical challenge, I guarantee that 
> building and integrating your own fueled APU will give you  plenty of
that!
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL 
> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the 
> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
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> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[paul dove via EV]

Alan Cocconi designed the EV1 electronics for GM.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 12:33 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> The most efficient EV APU I know of was the "Long Ranger" trailer Alan 
> Cocconi built for his Honda Civic hatchback EV about 2 decades ago.  He used 
> a (Kawasaki?) motorcycle engine.  
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/docs/acp_lr.pdf
> 
> I'm not sure the gadget advertised in the flyer linked above is the same as 
> the one Cocconi actually used to drive his Honda EV all over the US.  It 
> says it generates 9kW and "extend[s the] range by 200 miles per 5 gallon 
> tank of fuel."  
> 
> That would be 40mpg, but I recall reading that the one Cocconi actually used 
> with his Honda, which AFAIK actually could keep up with the EV's energy use 
> on the highway, got a real world highway mpg of 32.
> 
> For direct comparison, a similar Honda Civic VX or HF hatchback of about the 
> same vintage got real world highway mpg in the 48-56 range.
> 
> I don't think I ever read anything about exhaust emissions from Cocconi's 
> APU.  Anyone know how regulated motorcycle emissions were in the mid-1990s?
> 
> Cocconi was (presumably still is) a genius engineer.  I don't know about 
> your engineering background, but I know for sure that I personally could 
> never cook up something even that efficient and reliable in my garage.
> 
> Apparently building an APU isn't quite as simple as just chucking a genset 
> in the back and plugging your EV's charger into it.  We've had quite a few 
> discussions of fueled APUs on the EVDL over the years, and I recall reading 
> reports of burned-out gensets, chargers, even controllers.  Be careful.
> 
> Honestly, I think you'll get better results overall by just keeping an ICEV 
> in the garage for long trips -- or renting one when you need it.  Or you 
> could just buy yourself a Chevrolet Volt. Be aware that the Volt's mpg in 
> "charge sustaining" mode is decent but not all that impressive.  EPA says 
> 37mpg, and owners seem to get around 34-35.
> 
> But if you're in it for the technical challenge, I guarantee that building 
> and integrating your own fueled APU will give you  plenty of that!
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

The most efficient EV APU I know of was the "Long Ranger" trailer Alan 
Cocconi built for his Honda Civic hatchback EV about 2 decades ago.  He used 
a (Kawasaki?) motorcycle engine.  

http://www.evdl.org/docs/acp_lr.pdf

I'm not sure the gadget advertised in the flyer linked above is the same as 
the one Cocconi actually used to drive his Honda EV all over the US.  It 
says it generates 9kW and "extend[s the] range by 200 miles per 5 gallon 
tank of fuel."  

That would be 40mpg, but I recall reading that the one Cocconi actually used 
with his Honda, which AFAIK actually could keep up with the EV's energy use 
on the highway, got a real world highway mpg of 32.

For direct comparison, a similar Honda Civic VX or HF hatchback of about the 
same vintage got real world highway mpg in the 48-56 range.

I don't think I ever read anything about exhaust emissions from Cocconi's 
APU.  Anyone know how regulated motorcycle emissions were in the mid-1990s?

Cocconi was (presumably still is) a genius engineer.  I don't know about 
your engineering background, but I know for sure that I personally could 
never cook up something even that efficient and reliable in my garage.

Apparently building an APU isn't quite as simple as just chucking a genset 
in the back and plugging your EV's charger into it.  We've had quite a few 
discussions of fueled APUs on the EVDL over the years, and I recall reading 
reports of burned-out gensets, chargers, even controllers.  Be careful.

Honestly, I think you'll get better results overall by just keeping an ICEV 
in the garage for long trips -- or renting one when you need it.  Or you 
could just buy yourself a Chevrolet Volt. Be aware that the Volt's mpg in 
"charge sustaining" mode is decent but not all that impressive.  EPA says 
37mpg, and owners seem to get around 34-35.

But if you're in it for the technical challenge, I guarantee that building 
and integrating your own fueled APU will give you  plenty of that!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Willie via EV]

On 02/12/2017 02:16 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:





If you are going to sit and wait while the generator charges the batteries, it 
is probably easier and cheaper to design a fast charge port.  John is only 
talking about trips that are 150% of range, so this solution should be fine. It 
is also more consistent with the theme of the EV truck.


H. I wonder which will be more readily available?  An onboard 
generator?  Or a fast charge station?


I don't want to be cornered into advocating carrying around a generator. 
 I do not.  I was just pointing out that such a generator need not 
supply cruising power.


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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Ed Blackmond via EV]

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 02/12/2017 12:11 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
>> On Sun Feb 12 08:34:05 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>>> Doing the math with the typical 250 Whrs per mile of a Prius, then at 60
>>> MPh, that 250Whrs per minute or 15kWh over an hour so you need a 15 kW
>>> generator just to cruise on level ground pusing a Prius.  For pushing a
>>> heavier car  full of Lead-acids, not nearly as efficient as a Prius You
>>> might need 25 to 30 kW.
> 
> I don't imagine that it is necessary for a generator to output cruising 
> power, though that would be a positive.  One could start the generator before 
> the battery was depleted and run on both battery and generator power.  Also, 
> one could take a break while waiting for the generator to charge the battery.
> 
If you are going to sit and wait while the generator charges the batteries, it 
is probably easier and cheaper to design a fast charge port.  John is only 
talking about trips that are 150% of range, so this solution should be fine. It 
is also more consistent with the theme of the EV truck.

Ed
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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Roland via EV]

Hello Willie,

His name is Robert R. Aronson. His assembly plant at the time was at:

Robbins Executive Park East
2237 Elliott Avenue
Troy (greater detroit) Mich, 48084
phone 313/588-0250

He since move to Florida, producing a light weight foam battery for the 
space agency. The name of his company is
Apollo Electric Vehicle Co. which you could find in your search engine.

Back in 76, Robert R. Aronson was about 50 years old, so he may not be 
around any more.

The colbalt batteries I had, lasted me just over ten years driving 2 miles 
every day for about
12 years.  If I was driving on a flat grade, may have gone another 5 years 
with them.  To make this
hill, I would take a running start up to 70 mph on a down hill slope which 
would keep the speed on the hill
to about 70 mph keeping the motor at about 600 amps.

After 12 years, I had a motor shop re-enamel the GE 11 inch motor.  I still 
have this motor today.

Roland




- Original Message - 
From: "Willie via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 11:14 AM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?



>
>
> On 02/12/2017 11:44 AM, Roland via EV wrote:
>
> >
> > This EV weigh 7800 lbs with 90 each 300 ah 2.2 V lead cobalt cells that 
> > weigh 3000 lbs.  This EV had a range of 83 miles at 75 mph.  The 
> > generator was a 37.5 Kw three phase delta, 250 /125 vac circuit breaker 
> > at 100 amp.
>
> Roland, do you know what became of the guy that was promoting lead
> cobalt and other stuff?
>
> As I recall, the advantage of lead cobalt was that the voltage held up
> better at deep discharges giving more range?  But resulted in shorter
> battery life?
>
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> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Willie via EV]

On 02/12/2017 12:11 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Sun Feb 12 08:34:05 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

Doing the math with the typical 250 Whrs per mile of a Prius, then at 60
MPh, that 250Whrs per minute or 15kWh over an hour so you need a 15 kW
generator just to cruise on level ground pusing a Prius.  For pushing a
heavier car  full of Lead-acids, not nearly as efficient as a Prius You
might need 25 to 30 kW.


I don't imagine that it is necessary for a generator to output cruising 
power, though that would be a positive.  One could start the generator 
before the battery was depleted and run on both battery and generator 
power.  Also, one could take a break while waiting for the generator to 
charge the battery.


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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Willie via EV]

On 02/12/2017 11:44 AM, Roland via EV wrote:



This EV weigh 7800 lbs with 90 each 300 ah 2.2 V lead cobalt cells that weigh 
3000 lbs.  This EV had a range of 83 miles at 75 mph.  The generator was a 37.5 
Kw three phase delta, 250 /125 vac circuit breaker at 100 amp.


Roland, do you know what became of the guy that was promoting lead 
cobalt and other stuff?


As I recall, the advantage of lead cobalt was that the voltage held up 
better at deep discharges giving more range?  But resulted in shorter 
battery life?


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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Sun Feb 12 08:34:05 PST 2017 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Doing the math with the typical 250 Whrs per mile of a Prius, then at 60
>MPh, that 250Whrs per minute or 15kWh over an hour so you need a 15 kW
>generator just to cruise on level ground pusing a Prius.  For pushing a
>heavier car  full of Lead-acids, not nearly as efficient as a Prius You
>might need 25 to 30 kW.  

It really depends on the specifics of his conversion.
I have one of the least efficient EV's around.  (F250)  It cruises at 60mph 
using around 30KW.  It's likely that his conversion will use less than that. 
I'm actually looking into a genset range extender - but not a cheap one.
I'm looking at using a 4 cylinder BMW engine (with all pollution controls 
intact) to drive a generator head.
I MIGHT use a 3-phase generator adjusted to put out around 300V DC (rectified) 
- but even that has issues with essentially being a "bad boy" charger. (only 
pulls current from the peak of the AC waveform on each phase)  So would likely 
need at least a 50KW capable generator head.
The other choice is to use something like 3 PFC-50 chargers, one on each phase 
so they are isolated.
That runs into lots and lots of $$$ though.

Note: Yes, I do actually have an identical diesel F250.  That's not an ideal 
solution to longer trips though.  I make a fair number of trips that are about 
150% of my range.  So I have to use the diesel.  (I don't have a CHaDemo port, 
and am not interested in waiting 4 hours for enough charge from a level 2 to 
get home.)
The Diesel gets 16mpg, and isn't super reliable.  I've had to do semi-major 
repairs on it about twice a year.
I would probalby get better than 16mpg from the BMW genset - and I wouldn't 
need to run it for an entire trip.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Roland via EV]

My first EV which is call Transformer I that I received from the Electric Fuel 
Propulsion company in Troy Michigan back in 1977, had a option of a generator 
that was on a very stream line trailer, that can be control by the passenger or 
by the generator control panel.


This EV weigh 7800 lbs with 90 each 300 ah 2.2 V lead cobalt cells that weigh 
3000 lbs.  This EV had a range of 83 miles at 75 mph.  The generator was a 37.5 
Kw three phase delta, 250 /125 vac circuit breaker at 100 amp.


These generator sets were normally job site generators that this company made.  
For EV use, they rectifier it to 236 vdc at 100 amp maximum.  With a set of 
transfer contactors,  they could run the EV motor it self or charge the battery 
pack.


The generator is a 3 phase alternator run by a 4 cylinder diesel engine.  Can 
drive the EV about 500 miles.  This unit weight came in at 9200 lbs.


I did not purchase one, because I do not travel over 100 miles on the week end 
up a mountain on the week end to go skiing.


For me it was not cost effected to spend over $60,000.00 at that time to go 
skiing once a week.


Roland









From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Robert Bruninga via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:34 AM
To: Tom Martin; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Generator?

>   I need to know what type of generator will keep my
>  144v ( 12 / 12s ) EV system running?

Doing the math with the typical 250 Whrs per mile of a Prius, then at 60
MPh, that 250Whrs per minute or 15kWh over an hour so you need a 15 kW
generator just to cruise on level ground pusing a Prius.  For pushing a
heavier car  full of Lead-acids, not nearly as efficient as a Prius You
might need 25 to 30 kW.  And once you try to haul that around with a
priius, you will need maybe 50 kW.  And you  see you can never get
there...  such a method is just so inefficient kludge..

Just towing a little flatbed 4 foot tailer behind my prius dropped the MPG
by 10 MPG.

Bob


   I didn't buy it new, I built my own, like so many of you did several
years ago. I want to put a generator in it so I can keep going, and going,
and going.

   I don't know if a store model 8kw gen will do the job or not. Any
knowledgeable info will be appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Martin

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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>   I need to know what type of generator will keep my
>  144v ( 12 / 12s ) EV system running?

Doing the math with the typical 250 Whrs per mile of a Prius, then at 60
MPh, that 250Whrs per minute or 15kWh over an hour so you need a 15 kW
generator just to cruise on level ground pusing a Prius.  For pushing a
heavier car  full of Lead-acids, not nearly as efficient as a Prius You
might need 25 to 30 kW.  And once you try to haul that around with a
priius, you will need maybe 50 kW.  And you  see you can never get
there...  such a method is just so inefficient kludge..

Just towing a little flatbed 4 foot tailer behind my prius dropped the MPG
by 10 MPG.

Bob


   I didn't buy it new, I built my own, like so many of you did several
years ago. I want to put a generator in it so I can keep going, and going,
and going.

   I don't know if a store model 8kw gen will do the job or not. Any
knowledgeable info will be appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Martin

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Re: [EVDL] Generator?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Tom,

Several remarks and a bit of data here:
8kW genset is usually not capable of continuous duty 8kW output.
To cruise 55 MPH on flat road will take approx 15 kW continuous.
Most cheap gensets emit the same or more pollution as 100 cars, if that
is a concern to you.
The simplest way to have a low emission, efficient, cheap and long range
vehicle is to keep a gas car for the occasional long trip OR to rent a
vehicle for those occasions.
Decent used Prius'es can be had for under $2k but since it will be used
for occasional trips only, a regular car can work just as well.
Rental cars can be had for $25 for a weekend when business travelers are
not using them.

Use the EV for what it is good at and the other 5 or 10% of the time,
use a different tool. Just like you don't use a sledge hammer to drive a
thumb tack in the fridge bulletin board and you don't use a pencil to
tear down a wall.

So - yes, it can be done. Find a way that you can charge and drive at
the same time, use the battery to bridge moments of high energy use and
dimension the genset for the average power the you want to be using, or
make frequent stops to allow the genset to catch up charging the pack,
but note that it may be illegal to leave the genset running while parked
(depends on the local laws) and you will likely be appalled by the noise
and stink that your otherwise so silent and odorless EV is now belching
out...

Another solution without genset is the pusher-trailer.
It is constructed from the front clip of a front wheel drive car with
automatic gearing and it only requires a tow hitch on the EV. Only in
case you want to make a long trip do you hitch up the pusher, if you add
a remote start/stop and accelerator control then you can get on the
road, kick it on and let it push the EV at your desired speed until you
are close to your destination, then stop it and finish the last bit on
EV power again.
If your vehicle has regen braking then you can even recharge your EV
while being pushed...

Hope this helps,

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Tom Martin via
EV
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 6:23 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Generator?

Greetings Gents and ladies;

   I need to know what type of generator will keep my 144v ( 12 / 12s )
system running?

   I didn't buy it new, I built my own, like so many of you did several
years ago. I want to put a generator in it so I can keep going, and
going, and going.

   I don't know if a store model 8kw gen will do the job or not. Any
knowledgeable info will be appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Martin

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