RE: [expert] Kernel 2.4.7
Still don't know what you are talking about... Here's a printout... [opjose@bluebox opjose]$ su Password: [root@bluebox opjose]# uname -a Linux bluebox..com 2.4.8-18mdk #1 Tue Sep 4 10:08:58 EDT 2001 i686 unknown [root@bluebox opjose]# ps -aux | grep Z USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 11944 0.0 0.1 1724 676 pts/2S02:39 0:00 grep Z [root@bluebox opjose]# -JMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |Run a ps -aux | grep Z, and you will understand. It is a |zombie daemon but i believe this one is harmless, although, I |do not like zombies in my machine | |drjung | BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Sanchez;Jose;M FN:Jose M Sanchez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ORG:Net Results, Inc.;Lan Support TITLE:Lan Support TEL;WORK;VOICE:301-972-8271 TEL;HOME;VOICE:301-972-8507 TEL;CELL;VOICE:301-502-0151 TEL;WORK;FAX:301-349-2201 TEL;HOME;FAX:301-349-2201 ADR;WORK:;301-972-8271;17206 Spates Hill Road;Poolesville;Maryland;20837;United States LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:301-972-8271=0D=0A17206 Spates Hill Road=0D=0APoolesville, Maryland 20837= =0D=0AUnited States ADR;HOME:;;17206 Spates Hill Road;Poolesville;Maryland;20837;United States LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:17206 Spates Hill Road=0D=0APoolesville, Maryland 20837=0D=0AUnited States URL: URL:http://opjose.homeip.net EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20010825T134515Z END:VCARD Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Help needed please
I just bought a new system from my company... it's a PII 400 mhz, 128 mg Ram, with 9.1 SCSI HDD Compaq DeskPro EN workstation with a BIOS rompac of 4-14-98 my old system...has a 20 gig HDD from Maxtor IDE I currently have win98 2nd edition FULL version installed... and I wish to utilize the 20 gig strictly for Linux... I've never had a SCSI device before...so i don't know how to set this up according to compac site...if I setup the SCSI has the primary master, and the 20 gig as the slave, it will always boot from off the 20 gig... if this is true, then how do I do this...and still have the scsi boot first...with win98? I also have a Iomega 100mg zip drive...in it, and a 32x CDdrive... I was thinking of settingup the HP 9150i CD-RW drive by removing the zip drive...and keeping it, plus the regular CD drive...all on the secondary master ...slave spots...but that still doesn't help me with the 20 gig... can someone help me...please...? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] troels.rsync5.pl release.
Notice to all. troels.rsync5.pl (a Perl script) is an rsync-based free GPL program customised for efficiently and quickly downloading Mandrake trees and iso images. It has the following features over and above raw rsync to speed things up considerably: 1. Local files that match the server file except for version number and patch level are renamed to match the server's file name. This clever trick makes rsync use its inbuilt patch-in-place facility instead of doing a complete new download of that file. 2. A prebuilt rsync_exclude file is supplied. This contains the file names to be excluded from the download. This is pre-setup to exclude all RPMs supporting locales other than English (this alone saves 250 MB on a Cooker download), and is up to date. 3. Broken servers are handled correctly - rsync does not. This latest revision of this program is now available for download from: http://ains.net.au/~ronst/ Make sure you read the readme.html and make sure you register with NetMind at the bottom of the readme page. This is the only way that existing users will receive notification of changes in future. If you previously registered on the old web page, you will have to re-register for this new web page. Note: Because of the greatly differing directory structures between the mirrors you must firstly set up your local downloading area directory structures as you want them. My recommendation, which corresponds with the supplied template lines, is in the readme. Then edit the troels.rsync5.pl script with the servers, server directory structures, and local file directory structures you will be using. How to do this is explained in the readme.html file. Many standard template lines are included in the 'main program' section of this Perl script as these templates for you. As supplied initially, ALL are commented out. You just have to uncomment the ones you want to download. Tip: If you are set to download the beta iso images and have already downloaded: MandrakeLinux-8.1-Raklet-beta2-CD1.i586.iso MandrakeLinux-8.1-Raklet-beta2-CD2.i586.iso note that beta3 is now out. Because troels,rsync3.pl does not yet do an upnaming on these iso images, it is recommended that you do it manually BEFORE your next troels.rsync5.pl run. Change them to: MandrakeLinux-8.1-Raklet-beta3-CD1.i586.iso MandrakeLinux-8.1-Raklet-beta3-CD2.i586.iso This will enable rsysnc to try to use its patch-in-place algorithm. Use rsync to make a backup first in case your mirror does not yet have beta3. Enjoy! -- Ron. [au] Kindly note my new email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and new web site: http://www.ains.net.au/~ronst/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Ron Johnson wrote: Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. this is a mandrake thing i think. cause they have some misteries directory organisation, and they changed it so hard, that it is completly different from the further releases. its not only unusable for other software, its unusable for the mandrake-made-updatetools too!! im know upgrading (since severel weeks) my mk 7.1 box, to a linux-from-scratch release, and it works better than an mk 8.0 update i think. only one thing that brings me up is that the rpm-tools wich provided by this release dont work. for example when i make rpm -e --nodeps something, there are still some librarys and docs lying around wich i have to delete manually. dont know, maybe the database is not set up properly, i didnt changed anything on this rpm-shit. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. you dont have to use KDE! i use mostly blackbox, but for some applications im updating my gnome-setup too, and i do it on a dial-up-line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. i remebering from my ms-times when i have to upgrade some nt-boxes, there were severel so called 'service-packs', it takes sometimes a whole day in a small office to make such kind of update-orgy. if your wife is happy with her ugly windows-desk than she could be happy with a mk 6.1 with a fvwm 0.001 too i think. but the risk to getting a virus that destroys all her data is somehow higher on her windows box i think. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? - -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA | || | ~500K sq mi are needed for the population of the world to | ! live, 4 persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is California, Texas and Missouri.! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7mbAOjTz5dS9Us5wRAr9xAJ0T5oMwAnpko5DDWfqWhaCFSyO+2wCfbj03 z0PSfAD16WvWrtbqO5UhJ4Q= =nIZd -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
At 05:01 PM 09/08/2001 +0200, joy_ping wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Ron Johnson wrote: Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. this is a mandrake thing i think. cause they have some misteries directory organisation, and they changed it so hard, that it is completly different from the further releases. its not only unusable for other software, its unusable for the mandrake-made-updatetools too!! No, this isn't a Mandrake specific thing. This happens occassionally on any release of a new .0 version. For example, when RedHat released 7.0 many things broke, which were then fixed in 7.1 (for example, they included rpm 4.x, which is backwards compatible with 3.x--but the reverse isn't true-- rpm 3.x isn't necessarily upwards compatible with 4.x) . im know upgrading (since severel weeks) my mk 7.1 box, to a linux-from-scratch release, and it works better than an mk 8.0 update i think. only one thing that brings me up is that the rpm-tools wich provided by this release dont work. for example when i make rpm -e --nodeps something, there are still some librarys and docs lying around wich i have to delete manually. dont know, maybe the database is not set up properly, i didnt changed anything on this rpm-shit. Actually, rpm -e --nodeps will only delete core binary files--it will not delete the libraries required to run the program. If you want to fully remove a program, you have to run rpm -e packagename. If that still doesn't remove everything--well, it's several orders of magnitude worse with windows, which doesn't necessarily remove everything either. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Not true--I've successfully compiled and installed some cooker srpms to work with a Mandrake 7.2 install. What moved directories? As far as I remember there have been no directory changes since 7.0 --the libraries may be newer version, but they have not changed where they put stuff. -- Michael Viron Registered Linux User #81978 Senior Systems Administration Consultant Web Spinners, University of West Florida Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
So sprach »Michael D. Viron« am 2001-09-08 um 11:38:30 -0500 : work with a Mandrake 7.2 install. What moved directories? As far as I remember there have been no directory changes since 7.0 --the libraries may That's not true. Directory structure nowadays is much more compliant to LSB. Well, for example /usr/share/man, or /var/www or . Alexander Skwar -- How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english) Homepage: http://www.digitalprojects.com | http://www.iso-top.de iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen Uptime: 20 hours 10 minutes Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
On Saturday 08 September 2001 00:43, you wrote: The constantly changing APIs/libraries. Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? Windows XP is intended to Replace Win9x Family, soon all win9x applications will be a ghost from the past. DOS its gone... no more support, its a fact of life. Things change so quickly that is really hard to keep up with all of them. And Linux will soon replace many desktops... that also is a fact! ;-) sk Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
makes you wonder tho.. since dos is gone why not release the source freely? hmmm, maybe some secrets in the closet? better to burn down the neighborhood than to have the skeleton found? On Saturday 08 September 2001 13:09, you had thoughts to the concept of: On Saturday 08 September 2001 00:43, you wrote: The constantly changing APIs/libraries. Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? Windows XP is intended to Replace Win9x Family, soon all win9x applications will be a ghost from the past. DOS its gone... no more support, its a fact of life. Things change so quickly that is really hard to keep up with all of them. And Linux will soon replace many desktops... that also is a fact! ;-) sk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name=message.footer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Kernel 2.4.7
Jose M. Sanchez wrote: Still don't know what you are talking about... Here's a printout... [opjose@bluebox opjose]$ su Password: [root@bluebox opjose]# uname -a Linux bluebox..com 2.4.8-18mdk #1 Tue Sep 4 10:08:58 EDT 2001 i686 unknown [root@bluebox opjose]# ps -aux | grep Z USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 11944 0.0 0.1 1724 676 pts/2S02:39 0:00 grep Z [root@bluebox opjose]# -JMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] It amazes me but I should not be surprised: it is the nature of a listserve, where people forget what the original msg was about. Jose, in your original msg, the one I responded to, your stated that you upgraded to kernel-2.4.8-12: In case you forgot, here are your words. Jose M. Sanchez wrote: I went to 2.4.8-12mdk last night on a ReiserFS machine without any problems. (I did reserve a ext2 /boot partition originally though...) -JMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now I see your uname -a revealing a kernel-2.4.8-18mdk. Well, my friend, all bets are off, and, of course, you will find no zombie. That was not even the kernel we were discussing. Let me know your brand of beer, I would like to have some :-) drjung Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
Michael Holt wrote: Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Just type alias and it will show the list to you. Aliases are normally set in /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc. TomW -- Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com Windows? No thanks, I have work to do... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
Thank you so much Tom! It's funny how logical things can seem after you hear the correct answer! Mike Tom Walsh wrote: Michael Holt wrote: Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Just type alias and it will show the list to you. Aliases are normally set in /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc. TomW Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com message.footer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: 8bit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
Michael Holt wrote: Thank you so much Tom! It's funny how logical things can seem after you hear the correct answer! Also, do a 'man alias' for how it works. TomW -- Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com Windows? No thanks, I have work to do... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
Michael Holt wrote: Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Thanks very much! Mike :) just type alias to see the list. you can set an alias by typing something like that: alias ME='my command line' this allowes you to use ME in your current session. to set permanently an alias, add the line in $HOME/.bashrc or $HOME/.bash_profile you can do lot of things with aliases. that's what i use to burn my cds... bye jipe Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:43, you wrote: Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. poohba!!! Not only have I upgraded to KDE 2.2 via modem, but have also ditched that and gone to texstar's KDE, and am also running most of cooker -by dialup. I guess you don't remember downloading anything from a BBS at 300baud, do you (aaah Wildcat!!!)?? cheers Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:37, you wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:43, you wrote: Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. poohba!!! Not only have I upgraded to KDE 2.2 via modem, but have also ditched that and gone to texstar's KDE, and am also running most of cooker -by dialup. I guess you don't remember downloading anything from a BBS at 300baud, do you (aaah Wildcat!!!)?? cheers That would depend on what sort of deal you have with your ISP. Last year I downloaded every package required to update to 7.2 which took about 5 days. I was also *not* paying per MB then. This year I ordered the CD's as the update to 8.0 would have cost me around $200 to download the individual packages. Unless a package is released as a security update, I no longer download from cooker either. -- CYA, Muzza. Mandrake Linux 8.0 Kernel version 2.4.7-12.3mdk Current Linux uptime: 7 days 16 hours 24 minutes. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] What is making a file called cleaned?
[root@tux350 /]# ll total 152 drwxr-xr-x2 root root 4096 Jul 26 02:35 bin/ drwxr-xr-x3 root root 4096 Sep 6 16:40 boot/ -rw-r--r--1 root root0 Sep 5 16:52 cleaned drwxr-xr-x 10 root root98304 Sep 6 16:52 dev/ drwxr-xr-x 59 root root 8192 Sep 6 16:46 etc/ drwxr-xr-x 10 root root 252 Sep 2 10:50 home/ drwxr-xr-x4 root root 4096 Mar 31 04:26 lib/ drwxr-xr-x2 root root 4096 Sep 1 22:03 lost+found/ drwxr-xr-x2 root root0 Sep 6 16:46 misc/ drwxr-xr-x 18 root root 4096 Sep 2 07:56 mnt/ drwxr-xr-x2 root root0 Sep 6 16:46 net/ drwxr-xr-x6 root root 4096 Aug 28 10:02 opt/ dr-xr-xr-x 88 root root0 Sep 7 2001 proc/ drwxr-xr-x 47 root root 4096 Sep 6 16:51 root/ drwxr-xr-x3 root root 4096 Sep 2 10:43 sbin/ drwxrwxrwt 28 root root 4096 Sep 6 16:50 tmp/ drwxr-xr-x 23 root root 4096 Sep 5 16:03 usr/ drwxr-xr-x 27 root root 4096 Sep 1 23:58 var/ Does anyone know what this file is for?: -rw-r--r--1 root root0 Sep 5 16:52 cleaned I keep seeing it after a while, no matter how many times I delete it! It's *always* 0 bytes in size. I'm tempted to ln -sf /dev/null /cleaned but I want to know what it is and whether or not it can be safely cleaned out :) Thanks, George Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The constantly changing APIs/libraries. Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? Hi, I am sorry but I really have to disagree with you. I started out using Mandrake 7.0 and have been using Mandrake releases ever since. The latest version 8.0 despite it's very few (but very,very annoying newtork set-up bugs) is an OS and desktop that I would quite happy to use for three years without changing it. It makes windows software look positively clunkey and as for ease of use if you are a windows type USER and not a geek as you put it the complexity of it is not relevent. I was so impressed with 8.0 I decided to use it at my workplace; in combination with Star Office it does most of what windows can do and in the majority of cases a good deal faster and intuitively. On the point of the three year update why should your dear wife be unhappy with keeping KDE for three years since the only change she has had is to the internet browser? My goodness you have a choice of at least three different browsers and as for desktops I think there are probably five (although I haven't counted) I don't have the Power Pack but I suspect there will be more than a few more on that. Remember all this is in one release. I have to confess that when I started out with Linux I had similar views but I was set straight by Civeleme and now admit to being a convert, there is no way I would want to go back to windows blues. Notwithstanding that Microsoft are deserving of the fate of Sodom and Gommorah for the way that they conduct their business. (Sorry couldn't resist it after some of their latest stunts). How will Linux go forward? That is the question in my mind having realised that the standard of the OS is more capable of competing against the best commercial offerings. The greatest hurdle is the capitalist society in which many of us live. I believe that this list (and the Linux cause) would be better served by lively minds trying come up with means of promoting the Linux cause AND making a living rather than posting deliberately provocative and negative emails. The GPL is a most wonderful thing but it will take minds as skilful as those that conceived it to get the best from it. I believe that it may be the older citizens of some societies that might provide the key. I know many old people who have taken up computing in their 60's or after retirement, many of these have grandchildren. Imagine if you will a Linux provider writing or porting some of those little educational games that I recall buying for my childrens edification when there was only DOS. Grandfather showing little Billie how to make the tree get bigger by spelling the word right and all the time expounding the virtues of the GPL to the childs father and how if anything goes wrong someone just dials up from the internet and fixes it for them. Alas not for free but for a modest sum. To some this may be an idealistic image but it is one that Linux and the FSF can honestly claim for itself and one which Microsoft certainly cannot. Colin H Close P.S. My apologies to any that are offended by this post. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Su problems within KDE
I can't seem to su from graphical consoles within KDE. I always get a File size limit exceeded error. (kdesu also doesn't work; dialog reports conversation with su failed.) I _can_ however, successfully su on text-based consoles (i.e. I'm not using X locally). About the only thing I did recently was upgrade to the latest NVIDIA display drivers. How do I solve this problem short of going back to the earlier display driver? Thanks, Mark _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
The file alias.sh is located in /etc/profile.d/ if your using LM8.0 On Saturday 08 September 2001 14:55 pm, you wrote: Michael Holt wrote: Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Just type alias and it will show the list to you. Aliases are normally set in /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc. TomW Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] alias?
Thank you. I've found that to be the case (mdk 8.1b3), but I'm not sure where some of the entries are coming from when I type 'alias' at the command line. Gary A. Garibaldi wrote: The file alias.sh is located in /etc/profile.d/ if your using LM8.0 On Saturday 08 September 2001 14:55 pm, you wrote: Michael Holt wrote: Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Just type alias and it will show the list to you. Aliases are normally set in /etc/profile or /etc/bashrc. TomW Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com message.footer Content-Type: text/plain Content-Encoding: 8bit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Cannot startx
I have upgraded to XFree86 4.1 via mandrake update. when I try to startx from run level 3 as a user i recieve the error, authentication failed-cannot start X server. Perhpas you do not have console ownership? This started becasue I wanted to isntall tux typing which required libSDL1.2, libSDL_mixer1.2 and libSDL_image1.2. I did not want to use a --nodeps or --force to get this game working so to fulfill deps i let the updater install a new Pam package and Xfree 4.1 and all the packages,fonts and all for X. I am running Mandrake 8.0 on kenel 2.4..3-20. (stock kernel I think,no upgrade) Any suggestions on what to do to be able to startx from the console as user? TIA, John W Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
C.H. You appear to have your head in the sand. I love Linux, I love it more than I tolerate Windows, but changes must be made. This is because I eschew a world run by Microsoft, not because I advocate it. I should be able to *upgrade* to another version of Linux, not because Windows can do this (effectively they cannot), but because I am going to invest more of myself intosetting up my Linux box, to be exactly what I want, than I will spend banging my head against the brick wall that is Windows. Are there bugs in Linux apps? Yes. Are they fixed rapidly? Yes. Therefore does it make sense to keep the same version of apps for years? Of course not! I am responding to you in KMail 2.1.2, which is wonderful; compared to what I am using now the earlier version of KMail was atrocious (comparisons with MS crap aside), and here is the salient point, compared with what will be available, this is severely lacking. So what do we do but to keep receiving the great bounties of upgrades? I mean these are real, measurable improvements, not marketting gimmicks. Why would you pass them up? mg On Sunday 09 September 2001 01:58, C.H. Close wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The constantly changing APIs/libraries. Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? Hi, I am sorry but I really have to disagree with you. I started out using Mandrake 7.0 and have been using Mandrake releases ever since. The latest version 8.0 despite it's very few (but very,very annoying newtork set-up bugs) is an OS and desktop that I would quite happy to use for three years without changing it. It makes windows software look positively clunkey and as for ease of use if you are a windows type USER and not a geek as you put it the complexity of it is not relevent. I was so impressed with 8.0 I decided to use it at my workplace; in combination with Star Office it does most of what windows can do and in the majority of cases a good deal faster and intuitively. On the point of the three year update why should your dear wife be unhappy with keeping KDE for three years since the only change she has had is to the internet browser? My goodness you have a choice of at least three different browsers and as for desktops I think there are probably five (although I haven't counted) I don't have the Power Pack but I suspect there will be more than a few more on that. Remember all this is in one release. I have to confess that when I started out with Linux I had similar views but I was set straight by Civeleme and now admit to being a convert, there is no way I would want to go back to windows blues. Notwithstanding that Microsoft are deserving of the fate of Sodom and Gommorah for the way that they conduct their business. (Sorry couldn't resist it after some of their latest stunts). How will Linux go forward? That is the question in my mind having realised that the standard of the OS is more capable of competing against the best commercial offerings. The greatest hurdle is the capitalist society in which many of us live. I believe that this list (and the Linux cause) would be better served by lively minds trying come up with means of promoting the Linux cause AND making a living rather than posting deliberately provocative and negative emails. The GPL is a most wonderful thing but it will take minds as skilful as those that conceived it to get the best from it. I believe that it may be the older citizens of some societies that might provide the key. I know many old people who have taken up computing in their 60's or after
Re: [expert] Cannot startx
On Saturday 08 September 2001 21:26, you wrote: I have upgraded to XFree86 4.1 via mandrake update. when I try to startx from run level 3 as a user i recieve the error, authentication failed-cannot start X server. Perhpas you do not have console ownership? This started becasue I wanted to isntall tux typing which required libSDL1.2, libSDL_mixer1.2 and libSDL_image1.2. I did not want to use a --nodeps or --force to get this game working so to fulfill deps i let the updater install a new Pam package and Xfree 4.1 and all the packages,fonts and all for X. I am running Mandrake 8.0 on kenel 2.4..3-20. (stock kernel I think,no upgrade) Any suggestions on what to do to be able to startx from the console as user? TIA, John W Have you tried xhost localhost? as it looks like ownership only. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [expert] Cannot startx
I had the same kinda thing with mdk 7.1. Typing xhost + localhost in a term fixed stuff. Never *did* figure out EXACTLY what was happening.. Love Linux.. Just got SOOO much to learn. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sergio P.Korlowsky Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Cannot startx On Saturday 08 September 2001 21:26, you wrote: I have upgraded to XFree86 4.1 via mandrake update. when I try to startx from run level 3 as a user i recieve the error, authentication failed-cannot start X server. Perhpas you do not have console ownership? This started becasue I wanted to isntall tux typing which required libSDL1.2, libSDL_mixer1.2 and libSDL_image1.2. I did not want to use a --nodeps or --force to get this game working so to fulfill deps i let the updater install a new Pam package and Xfree 4.1 and all the packages,fonts and all for X. I am running Mandrake 8.0 on kenel 2.4..3-20. (stock kernel I think,no upgrade) Any suggestions on what to do to be able to startx from the console as user? TIA, John W Have you tried xhost localhost? as it looks like ownership only. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] alias?
Hello all you experts out there! I just started attending a local linux users group which meets once a month. Last month I learned about using aliases; ll instead of ls -l. I just had my appendix out and so I've had to miss today's meeting and I was hoping that someone here could refresh my memory and tell me where I could find out the list of current aliases on my machine? Also, what directory are they in? Thanks very much! Mike :) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] Rpm rebuild
I just installed Linux Mandrake 8.1 beta 3 and now rpm gives me the following error when trying to rebuild rpms. rpm -bb --target=i586 specfile.spec --target=i586: unknown option I have spechelper installed. Any other ideas on what I need to install? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
On Saturday 08 September 2001 12:38, Michael D. Viron wrote: At 05:01 PM 09/08/2001 +0200, joy_ping wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Ron Johnson wrote: Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. this is a mandrake thing i think. cause they have some misteries directory organisation, and they changed it so hard, that it is completly different from the further releases. its not only unusable for other software, its unusable for the mandrake-made-updatetools too!! The Mysterious Directory Organizaion you speak of is available at various web sites. I happen to keep a copy because I refer to it often in my job as a QA engineer. http://perso.mandrakesoft.com/~civileme/fhs-2.2.pdf This is what is known as standardization It is required by the linux standard base. It is an effort to make it possible for independent software vendors to write applications that will run on linux, not just a specific distribution platform. Now as far as integrated menus, that is used by Debian, Connectiva, and Mandrake. Some Desktops don't like it, preferring their own menuiong systems, and we have tried to accommodate the one making the most noise by allowing users to choose under GNOME which menu they wish to see. Obviously, anyone installing software not supplied by mandrake, particularly on desktops, is likely to have less than fully supported upgrade. The Update is less than satisfactory in any case, and seems to remain so, but the story is no different for anyone else. Remember the horros stories of those who did an upgrade from W95 to W98? And if they had 3rd part software? From 7.2 to 8.0 is a particularly steep grade. New libraries, especially glibc which broke binary compatibility with what went before, rpm 4 instead of rpm 3, a new compiler, a new library naming policy (to prevent the same situation from occurring again, and a new packaging policy dictated by the new library naming policy). This made the UPgrade really steep, because one package in 7.2 might be three in 8.0, something no update program was equipped to deal with including rpm. But there is no mystery on any of this, just ask, and read. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Su problems within KDE
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 08 September 2001 07:58 pm, Mark Chou wrote: I can't seem to su from graphical consoles within KDE. I always get a File size limit exceeded error. (kdesu also doesn't work; dialog reports conversation with su failed.) I _can_ however, successfully su on text-based consoles (i.e. I'm not using X locally). About the only thing I did recently was upgrade to the latest NVIDIA display drivers. How do I solve this problem short of going back to the earlier display driver? This same sort of problem was discussed earlier this week on the list. Try going back ~2 weeks. - -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA | || | 495,632 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 ! ! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. ! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7mu65jTz5dS9Us5wRAmOMAJ9Gau2oa79GTKzJRHu3XkPMsYOhcgCeKorl xmux3IceOcFsk6HzgAxMnh8= =cerw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 08 September 2001 06:37 pm, John Haywood wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:43, you wrote: Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. poohba!!! Not only have I upgraded to KDE 2.2 via modem, but have also ditched that and gone to texstar's KDE, and am also running most of cooker -by dialup. You have nothing else to do with your phone line, or have gotten a 2nd modem-only line. I guess you don't remember downloading anything from a BBS at 300baud, do you (aaah Wildcat!!!)?? Sure! On my KayPro 2 with an AnchorSignalman direct connect modem. One night, unforfortunately, I fell asleep while d/l'ing a set of big files. Wow. That was a *big* phone bill for a college student. - -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA | || | 495,632 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 ! ! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. ! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7mvFZjTz5dS9Us5wRAomhAJ9dKqU6A1knGPbAgDpYcPP5TT2LQQCdHCQc e+bP+vr7spuDmxZkFbuFzsU= =1U8g -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] Fundamental problem with Linux on the mass markey desktop?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I must agree with mike. The only reason to use the same s/w for 3 years is if it's adequate. For the wife's limited needs, Win98 O97 are adequate. IE4 was not. IE5 was not. IE5.5 is. However, I've installed new programs like digital camera utilities. Konq still has some formatting and jsp issues. History keeping (like Moz's Task|Tolls|History) is needed. KMail is adequate, as is the KDE desktop (don't know/care about GNOME; personal choice). When KDE3 comes out. I must upgrade all those libraries, or be left behind regarding new programs that come out. (Hopefully children's programs!!!) Too bad remote/network sound doesn't exist. I'd put an LTSP floppy in the wife's Compaq, and sound would come out of the speakers!!! On Saturday 08 September 2001 10:02 pm, mike wrote: C.H. You appear to have your head in the sand. I love Linux, I love it more than I tolerate Windows, but changes must be made. This is because I eschew a world run by Microsoft, not because I advocate it. I should be able to *upgrade* to another version of Linux, not because Windows can do this (effectively they cannot), but because I am going to invest more of myself intosetting up my Linux box, to be exactly what I want, than I will spend banging my head against the brick wall that is Windows. Are there bugs in Linux apps? Yes. Are they fixed rapidly? Yes. Therefore does it make sense to keep the same version of apps for years? Of course not! I am responding to you in KMail 2.1.2, which is wonderful; compared to what I am using now the earlier version of KMail was atrocious (comparisons with MS crap aside), and here is the salient point, compared with what will be available, this is severely lacking. So what do we do but to keep receiving the great bounties of upgrades? I mean these are real, measurable improvements, not marketting gimmicks. Why would you pass them up? mg On Sunday 09 September 2001 01:58, C.H. Close wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The constantly changing APIs/libraries. Moving from mdk7.2 to 8.0 required a complete reinstall to make sure no ghosts from the past remain to cause problems. This is because massive amounts of upgraded libraries were introduced, and many directories were moved. As we have seen so many threads here on this list, upgrading a mdk7.2 system in these 8.0 days requires compiling SRPMs, and many times, they won't work because of the aforementioned upgraded libraries and moved directories. Just recently, I upgraded from KDE 2.1.1 to 2.2. *Definitely* not something that non-geeks would ever contemplate or be able to do. Noone could contemplate it on a dial-up line. Take for example my wife. She's been using the same Win98 box with Office97 for 3 years. The only upgrade has been to IE5.5. She *likes* it that way. Could she be a happy, unchanging linux desktop user for 3 years from 1998? Don't think so. Could she be a happy linux desktop user for the 3 years starting now? NO. Soon, qt3 will be released. Then KDE3 will be re- leased. Then will RPMs (or even SRPMs) created for KDE3 run on her 2.2. Of course not, since mdk can't create *RPMs of new programs for old releases, even the last one, since the new programs use so many new features. Only when you can install a new RPM on a 3yo kernel/desktop will linux be ready for the mass market desktop. Comments? Hi, I am sorry but I really have to disagree with you. I started out using Mandrake 7.0 and have been using Mandrake releases ever since. The latest version 8.0 despite it's very few (but very,very annoying newtork set-up bugs) is an OS and desktop that I would quite happy to use for three years without changing it. It makes windows software look positively clunkey and as for ease of use if you are a windows type USER and not a geek as you put it the complexity of it is not relevent. I was so impressed with 8.0 I decided to use it at my workplace; in combination with Star Office it does most of what windows can do and in the majority of cases a good deal faster and intuitively. On the point of the three year update why should your dear wife be unhappy with keeping KDE for three years since the only change she has had is to the internet browser? My goodness you have a choice of at least three different browsers and as for desktops I think there are probably five (although I haven't counted) I don't have the Power Pack but I suspect there will be more than a few more on that. Remember all this is in one release. I have to confess that when I started out with Linux I had similar views but I was set straight by Civeleme and now admit to being a convert, there is no way I would want to go back to windows blues. Notwithstanding that Microsoft are
RE: [expert] Cannot startx
Entering xhost +localhost added the localhost without problem but I still cannot startx from the console as user. root access only. I am stuck here with what to do. I have ran the software mgr. as it is called and notice that X4.03 is still listed as installed along with X 4.1. I know that X 4.1 is cooker but it just doesn't make sense that this upgrade cannot be handled by the software supposedly designed to perform such a task. I think this goes hand-in -hand with the thread regarding fundamental problems with Linux... John At 11:52 PM 9/8/01 -0400, you wrote: I had the same kinda thing with mdk 7.1. Typing xhost + localhost in a term fixed stuff. Never *did* figure out EXACTLY what was happening.. Love Linux.. Just got SOOO much to learn. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sergio P.Korlowsky Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] Cannot startx On Saturday 08 September 2001 21:26, you wrote: I have upgraded to XFree86 4.1 via mandrake update. when I try to startx from run level 3 as a user i recieve the error, authentication failed-cannot start X server. Perhpas you do not have console ownership? This started becasue I wanted to isntall tux typing which required libSDL1.2, libSDL_mixer1.2 and libSDL_image1.2. I did not want to use a --nodeps or --force to get this game working so to fulfill deps i let the updater install a new Pam package and Xfree 4.1 and all the packages,fonts and all for X. I am running Mandrake 8.0 on kenel 2.4..3-20. (stock kernel I think,no upgrade) Any suggestions on what to do to be able to startx from the console as user? TIA, John W Have you tried xhost localhost? as it looks like ownership only. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] upgrading a remote linux system
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, all. Only after looking at LDP and Google did I decided to write this, so if you know of a fsking manual for me to read, I'd love to of hear it! (Programs like rsync don't sound like they could update *everything*.) Say I have box1 box2. I've just done something drastic like upgrade box1 to the python 2.1.1, kernel 2.4.8, mozilla, KDE2.2 (which, for my mandrake system at least, entails upgrading everything from gcc on up), etc, etc, etc. Now, I don't want to do *ALL* that over again on box2. What would happen if: I tarballed *all local* directories on box1 except /home, /dev /mnt and ftp'd it over to box2, untarred it all, and after re-creating the proper box-specific files, ran lilo. If disk space on box2 was tight, I could push the individual files over from from box1 via NFS, but might that bomb after I pushed over the nfs config files? Or, since NFS is already running on box2, would it not care? Here (for a mandrake system) are the box specific files I can think of: /etc/lilo.conf /etc/fstab /etc/mtab /etc/sysconfig/network /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 /etc/modules.conf /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 nfs config files /etc/smb.conf /etc/shadow /etc/smbpasswd I could put them in a tarball in /home before The Big Untar, then untar the config files afterwards. Of course, I could yank the HD out of box1 and Ghost it onto box2, but that's blech, especially if either box is Difficult To Get To. Ron - -- ++ | Ron Johnson, Jr.Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Jefferson, LA USA | || | 495,632 sq mi are needed for 6 billion people to live, 4 ! ! persons per lot, in lots that are 60'x150'.| ! That is ~ California, Texas and Missouri. ! ! Alternatively, France, Spain and The United Kingdom. | ++ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7mwfqjTz5dS9Us5wRApl7AJ9y3Bjh+RG02cLe7TGlEghqAY26JQCfXGni +63nMcCFpAthsTggWrBsj5U= =Me0A -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
