Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Ya know people, There used to be a time with Linux, that what you get was really bare bones. It was the kernel, some gnu utilities, and a basic installer. Then we the Linux community would scurry about, and find the bits that we liked, and wanted, and we spent some time, getting to know them, and massaging them onto our systems. And when we were all done (here's the scary bit), people used to take what they had packaged up, and put it on a web site for all to use. What a fantastic model that was. That truely WAS the very heart soul of Linux in the early days. But alas, today, we are besieged with spoiled, whiney (l)users who want it all done for them. Sod this learn how nonsense. You just want it all packaged up, nince tidy for you. What a spoiled bunch of windows (l)users you are. Show some hair. Go get the friggin packages, build 'em, and then SHARE 'em! What a fantastic idea that IS! How about you quit wanting to MandrakeSoft to give you everything, and give something back? That's the way it used to work. It still should. Mandrakesoft can't possibly be expected to support a continuing production schedule, AND go find evey piece of software, and make it work with every release they've ever put out. I fall back on my original statement: Do it yourself, and share. That's what it's all about. Ric OR: Go get KDE x.xx and install it yourself! Yes, lets to the same work a thousand times over! In stead of Mandrake doing it just once and sharing it with their community. Very smart... Or you do it and share it with the community so that they do not have to do it a thousand times over. Become a Club volunteer and package KDE3.1 for club members, I bet you would get a VIP membership out of it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 26 February 2003 04:10 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I was going to take a shot at setting up a box and trying to build the srpms for KDE3.1 on 8.2, but I see that noone has even voted for this on the Club website, so I am going to stop before I even start. It would seem to me, that since 8.2 came with KDE2.2.2 there would be some work involved, and I am not up to it if there is no one, or just a few people interested. I might feel differently if a hundred people had voted for it on the Club. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XjGfGu5uuMFlL5MRAocdAKCAhSbanWObjkuypC5n47nydF0IPQCfUIrD Vgc4SFisBfyY4CAPh7EOs/Y= =ejsb -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Greg Meyer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 26 February 2003 04:10 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I was going to take a shot at setting up a box and trying to build the srpms for KDE3.1 on 8.2, but I see that noone has even voted for this on the Club website, so I am going to stop before I even start. Why do you need votes do do something? Just do it or don't. It would seem to me, that since 8.2 came with KDE2.2.2 there would be some work involved, and I am not up to it if there is no one, If it came with 3.1 there wouldn't be any work involved now would it? or just a few people interested. I might feel differently if a hundred people had voted for it on the Club. O com'on, politician! Go for president instead. You have my vote. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Greg Meyer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 26 February 2003 04:10 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: Tibbetts, Ric wrote: If you want the newest software, run the new versions, And change every 6 months, no thanks! Now that we finally got all our 3rd party s.w. working like vpn clients (cicso, freeswan), vmware workstations, banking software, NVIDIA drivers, sound drivers... to name but a few. Do you think those suppliers are happy with having to support 50 versions of their product on their website for Liniux? And what about those new users, how do you expect them to cope with ever changing versions and get orientated? It's hard enough for them to get on board in the 1st place. When the poor guys ask for help it's o so easy to tell them 'upgrade'. There are also a lot of people who want to put their system to good use once it's up and has most of what they need working and not having to think about doing it all over again in 6 mths. Sounds to me like you are a candidate for Debian stable, slow and steady, no real upgrades for years. Of course they are on KDE 2.2.2 still, so that won't do. You haven't even looked on the KDE download page then? Debian have 3.1 alright. Where's Mandrake on that page? OR: Go get KDE x.xx and install it yourself! Yes, lets to the same work a thousand times over! In stead of Mandrake doing it just once and sharing it with their community. Very smart... Or you do it and share it with the community so that they do not have to do it a thousand times over. Become a Club volunteer and package KDE3.1 for club members, I bet you would get a VIP membership out of it. Why just for club members? That's another development and attitude I don't like. I couldn't care less about a VIP membership. Stuff that! If I'll do it it will be for all. If I support Mandrake I do it out of gratitude, not because I want to be better treated than someone who doesn't. That's so against the free and open spirit of the open source community that made Linux possible in the 1st place. How can you people continue to push Mandrake to release the newest software for old releases, AND expect them to put out new releases?!?! How are we pushing when we are holding on to our older (I hate to use that word) releases? What is harder, compiling a few major apps or a whole release? Yes, I agree (in part) that the release cycle is too fast. They have developed the habit of moving on to the next version, before they get the current one, up to date, and working (se my last post on this). I believe they keep it working (security updates, major bugfixes), They do that, which is good. but up to date may be another story. You can't expect them to keep everything up to date. I'm reasonable enough not to expect that. By learning the rpm package format there's already a lot that I've packaged. But major stuff like KDE that make your life on the desktop more enjoyable would be nice. Why were the kde3.1 release candidates available and not the final thing? I would assume that they believe that is what the new distro is for. In essence saying, if you want the new stuff run the new distro, and if you want new stuff for the old distro, join the Club, but if it is older than 12 months, we don't know what it is. Don't expect that a membership will offer you all. I'm not the only one who's thinking that. Don't get me wrong, I loved Mandrake since 6.x . In stead of having a big following for one release you end up with many small ones. Now there's even more divisions with the non-club, standard, silver and golden categories. This is not good for support. It's not good for Mandrake either having to adapt their thinking or solutions to so many versions. It's making everybody's live hard. Which is exactly why they are going to support only two prior releases as per their new product life initiative. Slow down is what they ought to do. There are strong arguments for lengthening the release cycle and providing more software updates between releases, but that is not what Mandrake is doing right now. Don't tell me. Subsequently, it is not us you have to convince, but MandrakeSoft. Well, join us. Cheers, Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 27 February 2003 04:03 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: I was going to take a shot at setting up a box and trying to build the srpms for KDE3.1 on 8.2, but I see that noone has even voted for this on the Club website, so I am going to stop before I even start. Why do you need votes do do something? Just do it or don't. Because there is nothing in it for me other than the satisfaction of helping, I would want to spend the time only if there was enough demand for it. I don't want to spend 24 hours packaging KDE3.1 for 8.2 (assuming everything goes smoothly) for nobody. And since 8.2 packages won't even help you (I believe you are 8.1), I cannot even claim one person that would want them. It would seem to me, that since 8.2 came with KDE2.2.2 there would be some work involved, and I am not up to it if there is no one, If it came with 3.1 there wouldn't be any work involved now would it? But KDE 3.1 was not out yet when 8.2 was released :-) O com'on, politician! Go for president instead. You have my vote. No thanks, way too much pressure.. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XoT+Gu5uuMFlL5MRAuSVAKCDSkf+ZDGMfki1l7lIP4XRHOeQ5QCeJxWg T5FmQeCmx5NmSG7Q9qBln68= =iV9H -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 27 February 2003 03:56 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: Sounds to me like you are a candidate for Debian stable, slow and steady, no real upgrades for years. Of course they are on KDE 2.2.2 still, so that won't do. You haven't even looked on the KDE download page then? Debian have 3.1 alright. Where's Mandrake on that page? deb's available there are not official, they were packaged by a volunteer and there are a lot more people running Debian stable than people running Mandrake 8.x Why just for club members? That's another development and attitude I don't like. I couldn't care less about a VIP membership. Stuff that! If I'll do it it will be for all. If I support Mandrake I do it out of gratitude, not because I want to be better treated than someone who doesn't. That's so against the free and open spirit of the open source community that made Linux possible in the 1st place. Because Club members pay for the development and as a for-profit comapny, MandrakeSoft cannot afford to provide services for free. If you don't like that Mandrake is a for-profit company and wants to sell it's services, again, use a distro that is community based like Debian. new distro, and if you want new stuff for the old distro, join the Club, but if it is older than 12 months, we don't know what it is. Don't expect that a membership will offer you all. It may make sure there is a Mandrake Distribution in the future though. for support. It's not good for Mandrake either having to adapt their thinking or solutions to so many versions. It's making everybody's live hard. Which is exactly why they are going to support only two prior releases as per their new product life initiative. Slow down is what they ought to do. I agree they should slow down, but I don't think they should go as slow as you are proposing. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XoaOGu5uuMFlL5MRAvLcAJ9g5U7zDuhomEmxlPdodTtQRNc1HgCbBZc2 U6Gh5G1eXz+nIlwI+4VKtLg= =ZeKg -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Tibbetts, Ric wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? Get a grip people! Cool it Ric, slow down. Caught in the race are you? ;-) This is Linux! It's not, it's just one of the many distributions. Linus has nothing to do with Mandrake releases. If you want the newest software, run the new versions, And change every 6 months, no thanks! Now that we finally got all our 3rd party s.w. working like vpn clients (cicso, freeswan), vmware workstations, banking software, NVIDIA drivers, sound drivers... to name but a few. Do you think those suppliers are happy with having to support 50 versions of their product on their website for Liniux? And what about those new users, how do you expect them to cope with ever changing versions and get orientated? It's hard enough for them to get on board in the 1st place. When the poor guys ask for help it's o so easy to tell them 'upgrade'. There are also a lot of people who want to put their system to good use once it's up and has most of what they need working and not having to think about doing it all over again in 6 mths. OR: Go get KDE x.xx and install it yourself! Yes, lets to the same work a thousand times over! In stead of Mandrake doing it just once and sharing it with their community. Very smart... How can you people continue to push Mandrake to release the newest software for old releases, AND expect them to put out new releases?!?! How are we pushing when we are holding on to our older (I hate to use that word) releases? What is harder, compiling a few major apps or a whole release? Yes, I agree (in part) that the release cycle is too fast. They have developed the habit of moving on to the next version, before they get the current one, up to date, and working (se my last post on this). I'm not the only one who's thinking that. Don't get me wrong, I loved Mandrake since 6.x . In stead of having a big following for one release you end up with many small ones. Now there's even more divisions with the non-club, standard, silver and golden categories. This is not good for support. It's not good for Mandrake either having to adapt their thinking or solutions to so many versions. It's making everybody's live hard. I'm on a rant today. I see two distinct flavors of users on this list: 1) I want the latest greatest everything, all the time, on my 2 year old distro. And it better be stable. and 2) I want new versions of everything, including the OS monthly.. and it better be stable. Well it's still a free list, touch wood, and these are the 2 extremes. That shouldn't defer Mandrake from choosing a golden middle path. In the longer run we would apreciate. Give Mandrakesoft a break folks. If you want to run bleeding edge, either run cooker, upgrade, or, install it yourself. That's like saying bugger off. Where's the spirit of sharing and helping out? Enough ranting. I have work to do. Upgrading no doubt. :-D Cheers, Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 26 February 2003 04:10 pm, Guy Zelck wrote: Tibbetts, Ric wrote: If you want the newest software, run the new versions, And change every 6 months, no thanks! Now that we finally got all our 3rd party s.w. working like vpn clients (cicso, freeswan), vmware workstations, banking software, NVIDIA drivers, sound drivers... to name but a few. Do you think those suppliers are happy with having to support 50 versions of their product on their website for Liniux? And what about those new users, how do you expect them to cope with ever changing versions and get orientated? It's hard enough for them to get on board in the 1st place. When the poor guys ask for help it's o so easy to tell them 'upgrade'. There are also a lot of people who want to put their system to good use once it's up and has most of what they need working and not having to think about doing it all over again in 6 mths. Sounds to me like you are a candidate for Debian stable, slow and steady, no real upgrades for years. Of course they are on KDE 2.2.2 still, so that won't do. OR: Go get KDE x.xx and install it yourself! Yes, lets to the same work a thousand times over! In stead of Mandrake doing it just once and sharing it with their community. Very smart... Or you do it and share it with the community so that they do not have to do it a thousand times over. Become a Club volunteer and package KDE3.1 for club members, I bet you would get a VIP membership out of it. How can you people continue to push Mandrake to release the newest software for old releases, AND expect them to put out new releases?!?! How are we pushing when we are holding on to our older (I hate to use that word) releases? What is harder, compiling a few major apps or a whole release? Yes, I agree (in part) that the release cycle is too fast. They have developed the habit of moving on to the next version, before they get the current one, up to date, and working (se my last post on this). I believe they keep it working (security updates, major bugfixes), but up to date may be another story. I would assume that they believe that is what the new distro is for. In essence saying, if you want the new stuff run the new distro, and if you want new stuff for the old distro, join the Club, but if it is older than 12 months, we don't know what it is. I'm not the only one who's thinking that. Don't get me wrong, I loved Mandrake since 6.x . In stead of having a big following for one release you end up with many small ones. Now there's even more divisions with the non-club, standard, silver and golden categories. This is not good for support. It's not good for Mandrake either having to adapt their thinking or solutions to so many versions. It's making everybody's live hard. Which is exactly why they are going to support only two prior releases as per their new product life initiative. There are strong arguments for lengthening the release cycle and providing more software updates between releases, but that is not what Mandrake is doing right now. Subsequently, it is not us you have to convince, but MandrakeSoft. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+XTY7Gu5uuMFlL5MRAp9ZAJ9AB/Jyb8vhiyDMVOzLm19PdzTBnwCeOtVr h6mag1XE4Svld+tbopdg9Z0= =T0Dg -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Greg Meyer wrote: Sounds to me like you are a candidate for Debian stable, slow and steady, no real upgrades for years. Of course they are on KDE 2.2.2 still, so that won't do. Actually on http://www.kde.org/info/3.1.php there are kde3.1 packages for debian stable (note that I'm not interested ATM neither in debian nor in kde3.1, but it seemed strange to me that there were no kde3.1 packages for debian). Maybe he could be better served by suse, since there are packages for 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, 8.1 (but since I don't track suse I cannot tell how old or how new these releases are) Bye -- Luca Olivetti Note.- This message reached you today, it may not tomorrow if you are using MAPS or other RBL. They arbitrarily IP addresses not related in any way to spam, disrupting Internet connectivity. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/21/1944247 and http://theory.whirlycott.com/~phil/antispam/rbl-bad/rbl-bad.html pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the exact reason for me trying other distros. Sorce based distros that are not sold are the way to go. (For me). I still use Mandrake at work for servers and workstations but I have been trying others and found Lunar Linux Sorceror and Gentoo. With these you have no need for packages being made for your current system as it uses the sources. So give one a try. Ralph I've allways loved Mandrake and they did a lot of good for the community but lately they turned so commercial. They seem to have cut themselves loose from the free spirit of the opensource community we all liked and still like. It's not the community's fault they sold themselves to moneyhungry managers. The way they race versions isn't healthy for a broad following, it's just not serious anymore. It looks like a rat race. Can you imaging new Linux users who struggle to get on board, once they feel 25% at ease with the system they find themselves on an abandoned boat. I hope they prove us wrong but I have strong doubts ... Lately I've been orienting myself towards Debian. They seem to have a sound look on things and don't race unnecesarily but take it in their stride. Guy. Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the exact reason for me trying other distros. Sorce based distros that are not sold are the way to go. (For me). I still use Mandrake at work for servers and workstations but I have been trying others and found Lunar Linux Sorceror and Gentoo. With these you have no need for packages being made for your current system as it uses the sources. So give one a try. Ralph I've allways loved Mandrake and they did a lot of good for the community but lately they turned so commercial. They seem to have cut themselves loose from the free spirit of the opensource community we all liked and still like. It's not the community's fault they sold themselves to moneyhungry managers. The way they race versions isn't healthy for a broad following, it's just not serious anymore. It looks like a rat race. Can you imaging new Linux users who struggle to get on board, once they feel 25% at ease with the system they find themselves on an abandoned boat. I hope they prove us wrong but I have strong doubts ... Lately I've been orienting myself towards Debian. They seem to have a sound look on things and don't race unnecesarily but take it in their stride. Guy. Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? Get a grip people! This is Linux! If you want the newest software, run the new versions, OR: Go get KDE x.xx and install it yourself! How can you people continue to push Mandrake to release the newest software for old releases, AND expect them to put out new releases?!?! Yes, I agree (in part) that the release cycle is too fast. They have developed the habit of moving on to the next version, before they get the current one, up to date, and working (se my last post on this). I'm on a rant today. I see two distinct flavors of users on this list: 1) I want the latest greatest everything, all the time, on my 2 year old distro. And it better be stable. and 2) I want new versions of everything, including the OS monthly.. and it better be stable. Give Mandrakesoft a break folks. If you want to run bleeding edge, either run cooker, upgrade, or, install it yourself. Enough ranting. I have work to do. Ric Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
This is the exact reason for me trying other distros. Sorce based distros that are not sold are the way to go. (For me). I still use Mandrake at work for servers and workstations but I have been trying others and found Lunar Linux Sorceror and Gentoo. With these you have no need for packages being made for your current system as it uses the sources. So give one a try. Ralph Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 19 February 2003 01:25 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the exact reason for me trying other distros. Sorce based distros that are not sold are the way to go. (For me). I still use Mandrake at work for servers and workstations but I have been trying others and found Lunar Linux Sorceror and Gentoo. With these you have no need for packages being made for your current system as it uses the sources. And they take forever to compile things like KDE3.1. It took me about three days to get Gentoo insdtalled to my liking on a Pentium II 400, compiling around the clock. I am surprised the processor didn't go 'poof' from the heat. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+U9JDGu5uuMFlL5MRAmVxAJ9f4o/C0PFGPlWiyp39EZtDWsa2RwCaA7Xe gqXkIpF5DE5wptf33iCB+cI= =iaq7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
So true Lunar Linux took me two days with a P4 1.8. But now that the work is done it should bee smooth sailing for the upgrade path. Ralph -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 19 February 2003 01:25 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the exact reason for me trying other distros. Sorce based distros that are not sold are the way to go. (For me). I still use Mandrake at work for servers and workstations but I have been trying others and found Lunar Linux Sorceror and Gentoo. With these you have no need for packages being made for your current system as it uses the sources. And they take forever to compile things like KDE3.1. It took me about three days to get Gentoo insdtalled to my liking on a Pentium II 400, compiling around the clock. I am surprised the processor didn't go 'poof' from the heat. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+U9JDGu5uuMFlL5MRAmVxAJ9f4o/C0PFGPlWiyp39EZtDWsa2RwCaA7Xe gqXkIpF5DE5wptf33iCB+cI=iaq7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 16 February 2003 07:00 am, Guy Zelck wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? You are using an operating sytem that will become unsupported on March31, 2003. About 45 days from now. I don't think you are ging to see any effort to add non-security related enhancements to 8.1. If you want KDE3.1, you're going to have to upgrade the entire distro. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+T5e1Gu5uuMFlL5MRAmWoAJ474olAdkb0ns1h1ASFCfbylpvGQACeK96M /WRs6Mw85MyewLVGK8Y1EUU= =jTq7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Why change to a new program version in the first place if you are happy using a old os version? You would advocate That mandrake should build packages for for all of their old versions? KDE 3.1 for v6 maybe? Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. Cooker may be a choice for those who allways want the latest and supposidly greatest. Still free. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Maybe you could build it? I'm not saying mandrake shouldn't support old versions, but the old distro did not ship with the intention of being brought up the the latest level of every package. My Explorer came with a 5L V8, they now come with a 4.6L V8, should Ford provide me with a upgrade path other than purchasing a new one? Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Simon Rée mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] openPGP key : http://www.codeford.com/simonree.asc - Please Donate to the Canadian Cystic Fibrosis Foundation - - http://www.cysticfibrosis.ca - msg66099/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1
On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:29:37 -0500 Simon Ree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe you could build it? Though it requires some time and effort kde-3.1 will build on 9.0, since 9.0 uses qt3 8.2 uses qt2, so unless you are a programmer and can re-write some of the code kde-3.1 can not be built nor will it run on 8.2. If you consider upgrading to qt3 on 8.2 the easiest, simplest, and Safest approach is to upgrade the distro itself. Charles -- The best portion of a good man's life, his little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and love. -- Wordsworth - Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel- 2.4.21pre4-6mdk - msg66100/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Hi, Simon Ree wrote: Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Why change to a new program version in the first place if you are happy using a old os version? Old? MD8.1 is from Sep 2001, that's 1.5 years old. Using KDE2.2 together with all the other updates doesn't mean I have an old os. It's not because every 6 mths there's a new version, that the previous 2 versions are suddenly old. They overtook RH in version number, very good Marketing wise, but not good for anything else. You would advocate That mandrake should build packages for for all of their old versions? KDE 3.1 for v6 maybe? That's exagerating, that was not my question? A longer support period would be more reasonable, say 3 years, certainly for substantial packages. Creating a newer version less often would help, and instead provide upgrade waves (service packs ;-) ) Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. Cooker may be a choice for those who allways want the latest and supposidly greatest. Still free. Then I could have as well upgraded to 9.0. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Maybe you could build it? I'll have a go at it, sure. I'm not saying mandrake shouldn't support old versions, but the old distro did not ship with the intention of being brought up the the latest level of every package. My Explorer came with a 5L V8, they now come with a 4.6L V8, should Ford provide me with a upgrade path other than purchasing a new one? Crummy comparison. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1
Hi, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:29:37 -0500 Simon Ree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe you could build it? Though it requires some time and effort kde-3.1 will build on 9.0, since 9.0 uses qt3 8.2 uses qt2, so unless you are a programmer and can re-write some of the code kde-3.1 can not be built nor will it run on 8.2. You would build it with qt3 ofcourse. Not try to build it with qt2, that would be very dumb or masochistic. If you consider upgrading to qt3 on 8.2 the easiest, simplest, and Safest approach is to upgrade the distro itself. The release candidate versions where available so why not the final version. I ran kde3.1 rc4 qt3 for some time. Maybe it just a question of time. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
On Sunday 16 February 2003 10:44 am, Guy Zelck wrote: Hi, Simon Ree wrote: Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Why change to a new program version in the first place if you are happy using a old os version? Old? MD8.1 is from Sep 2001, that's 1.5 years old. Using KDE2.2 together with all the other updates doesn't mean I have an old os. It's not because every 6 mths there's a new version, that the previous 2 versions are suddenly old. They overtook RH in version number, very good Marketing wise, but not good for anything else. I think they have had a number above RH for some long time, overtakeing as long as three years ago is not anything new. You would advocate That mandrake should build packages for for all of their old versions? KDE 3.1 for v6 maybe? That's exagerating, that was not my question? A longer support period would be more reasonable, say 3 years, certainly for substantial packages. Creating a newer version less often would help, and instead provide upgrade waves (service packs ;-) ) depending on the defination of support and what you thnk you should be intitled to when you get something that is available for free. Perhaps if you purchased the box version at a retail store in The USa youmight have some beef worth bringing up with the vendor, (best buy?,or McMillian publishing? or whomever gave you the idea that this free to download product should have support provided for you. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. this is just false. Please refrain form public statemants as fact unless you are prepared to provide public evidence to back up your statement. such falsehoods in other forums (about other products too) might be enough to get you sued for slander. the suit may not prevail, but you certianly could find yourself paying a lot in legal fees that you would never recover. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. As I understand it, Mandrakesoft is a for profit company, and not a free software distributor I think that defination should be reserved for... say... the PLF. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. Cooker may be a choice for those who allways want the latest and supposidly greatest. Still free. Then I could have as well upgraded to 9.0. and it is free still for just the download So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Maybe you could build it? I'll have a go at it, sure. I'm not saying mandrake shouldn't support old versions, but the old distro did not ship with the intention of being brought up the the latest level of every package. My Explorer came with a 5L V8, they now come with a 4.6L V8, should Ford provide me with a upgrade path other than purchasing a new one? Crummy comparison. Guy. _I_ will say they should not support older versions. I was going to go into my reasons, but I will leave that since it is worth discussing in a new thread or by personal offlist mail if anyone else cares enough to ask. Really, I think the reasons are self-evident to anyone that thinks about it for a few minutes. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
On Sun, 2003-02-16 at 06:29, Simon Ree wrote: Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Why change to a new program version in the first place if you are happy using a old os version? You would advocate That mandrake should build packages for for all of their old versions? KDE 3.1 for v6 maybe? Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. Cooker may be a choice for those who allways want the latest and supposidly greatest. Still free. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Maybe you could build it? I'm not saying mandrake shouldn't support old versions, but the old distro did not ship with the intention of being brought up the the latest level of every package. My Explorer came with a 5L V8, they now come with a 4.6L V8, should Ford provide me with a upgrade path other than purchasing a new one? Guy, Good point I think that MDK has a responsibility for bugfixes and security on current. (note this doesn't include upgrades just because it's nice.) And into a pretty far future security fixes. IE if a zlib type bug comes out all currently supported versions definitely should get the new rpm. But older versions need one of two actions. If in April a security hole of this level even though 8.x just got dropped they should for the purpose of good customer relations provide either a binary rpm or at the very least a generic src rpm that can be used. This isn't required it just makes good business sense. For older systems the courtesy would be to provide minimal High you are on your own but this should help you not break things. type instructions. For example. *** For users of older versions of MDK you can go to www.thisappishosed.com and download the source code. Follow the instructions there and use the configure switch --prefix=/usr to ensure that the libs go in the correct place on your box. Note that this will not update or change the rpm database and the installation of later applications may not be able to autodetect that you have this installed. Also note that MDK is not responsible for any problems this manual upgrade may cause. + This does two things. One it shows MDK cares and two it scares the heck out of a lot of people, hopefully pushing them to do a system upgrade. The downside. Many will just ignore it. (ala Slammer the patch was 9 months old. M$ was not at fault on that one.) Thankfully MDK doesn't pull a RH and remove the tools you need for manual upgrades from the low cost boxed set. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] KDE3.1 for MD = 8.1?
Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Simon Ree wrote: Guy Zelck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Will there ever be a KDE3.1 version released for 8.x? I only now can say that I've got my 8.1 system like I want it to be. In the mean time Mandrake raced versions, which in my view is crazy . It's becoming more and more difficult to have recent versions of programs. I find myself more and more rebuilding packages. A lot of packages (libs) change names between versions and taking a recent spec file to rebuild a package yourself is often hell as you have find out what you need from scratch and change all required package names in the spec. Why change to a new program version in the first place if you are happy using a old os version? Old? MD8.1 is from Sep 2001, that's 1.5 years old. Using KDE2.2 together with all the other updates doesn't mean I have an old os. It's not because every 6 mths there's a new version, that the previous 2 versions are suddenly old. They overtook RH in version number, very good Marketing wise, but not good for anything else. 1.5 years is old in the software world. It's old for Mandrake and its old for MS. Upgrading to a new KDE doesn't necessarily get you anything new or better or do your job any better. If a specific *new* feature is required you may have to upgrade due to it needing other package upgrades and so on and so on. Should Mandrake upgrade the whole OS for you? oh wait they did 8.2, 9.0, 9.1B. You would advocate That mandrake should build packages for for all of their old versions? KDE 3.1 for v6 maybe? That's exagerating, that was not my question? A longer support period would be more reasonable, say 3 years, certainly for substantial packages. Creating a newer version less often would help, and instead provide upgrade waves (service packs ;-) ) your right and maybe they should. But I think you would need a much bigger company to support 3 years worth of distro's even if they were slowed down. And how do you define support? Patching the version you purchased/downloaded or providing new versions as they become available. I don't think Mandrake should be responsible for slowing down other peoples projects. Many users would jump ship the second Mandrake dropped from the bleeding edge. Even guys that started of with 9.0 now have to be club members to get kde3.1. This is a sad development. I see Mandrake more and more slip away from being a free os distributor. I understand they have difficulties so I payed for a regular membership myself for 2 years in a row now. You get very little with this. But more and more the regular users are left out. This is very sad I find. I starts to stink for $s. Cooker may be a choice for those who allways want the latest and supposidly greatest. Still free. Then I could have as well upgraded to 9.0. So I'm afraid there's little chance to get rpms from Mandrake for 8.x. If there's no good soul in the community who put packages available I'm in for an ordeal to get kde3.1 compiled and packaged for 8.1. Maybe you could build it? I'll have a go at it, sure. I'm not saying mandrake shouldn't support old versions, but the old distro did not ship with the intention of being brought up the the latest level of every package. My Explorer came with a 5L V8, they now come with a 4.6L V8, should Ford provide me with a upgrade path other than purchasing a new one? Crummy comparison. think so, you can apply the camparison to any number of products services, whatever. If a warranty is implied or supplied it is for the product supplied and presumably paid for. My vehicle or dishwasher or whatever has a support period and so does Mandrake's product. Its just that the support is for what you bought or downloaded. If the only way to fix a major security flaw or bug or defect/recall (staying with vehicles) is to replace a core component then you might have an argument for Mandrake providing you with a new KDE. Guy. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Simon Rée mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] openPGP key : http://www.codeford.com/simonree.asc - Please Donate to the Canadian Cystic Fibrosis Foundation - - http://www.cysticfibrosis.ca - msg66124/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
