Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Civileme wrote: I haven't seen much to impress in Caldera as far as smoothing rough edges. I install a LOT of linux systems, and Caldera is smooth only to the point of where you have hardware it isn't preprogrammed for. Then the tools are inadequate, the documentation doesn't match the performance and the telephone support can't pull up its own socks. The supposedly prepaid email support has never once responded to a registered inquiry in my experience, which encompasses 6 systems, 2 with 2.2 and 4 hopefuls (wishful thinking) with 2.3. Tis a fine thing that they include StarOffice in their distro because it is annoying to try to install Sun's edition there. The number of symlinks you have to make to get the error messages to go away is, I suppose, manageable in a script file once you discover them all, but why bother? These are self-help lists, and the presence of Mandrakesoft personnel here is NOT obligatory on their part. In other words, after his 14-hour day, the Mandrake programmer might skim the 200 or so emails on the various lists and respond to something that catches the eye, but then their status is another expert trying to help someone for basically altruistic reasons. Response to "issues" in the software usually should be expectable from the email support address for that purpose when you send email with your registration number. Moreover, some of the issues on install have a solution unpalatable to the folks who are at the helm for this distro. They involve returning to 386 code because a number of manufacturers have been cutting corners they should not have cut in little things like drive timing. The result is that the 586 code linuxes and the 686 code linuxes and even the 486 code linuxes are evoking these problems. Notable is the timing of the Western Digital IDE drive and the Seagate IDE Ultra-DMA drives. A slow WD master and a fast Maxtor slave will destroy each other's data with timing chatter, for example. Seagates are the source of many of the "lost interrupt" signals you see. And this happens with the Stampede distros as well. It is a HARDWARE problem. This distro is one of those that is pointing to it, and I would expect you will see disk drive manufacturers and other hardware manufacturers flock to the banner of compliance with standards to preserve their sales in the near future. But if for your needs you are satisfied with a 386-code linux, Caldera is the least likely to cause you complaint, even though they will fall well below your obviously high standards for answering issues and offering documentation. Civileme -- experimentation involving more than 500 trials with an ordinary slice of bread and a tablespoon of peanut butter has determined that the probability a random toss will land sticky side down (SSD) is approximately .98 Hello Civileme, I enjoyed your response to the above situation. Even us "rookies" can grasp some of what you are saying. Your reference to the hardware issues is well taken. It is my hope to gain enough knowledge to understand more of what you "experts" have to say. Thanks for taking the time to explain some of the more advanced issues of Linux. I've been windoze free for almost two weeks now, and I'm loving my penguin more and more as time goes by! Vern
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) I must say as well that I've been unimpressed by the lack of response to my "cooker" missive regarding installation issues and I will probably leave the Mandrake fold once Caldera comes out with their next distribution. They seem to spend a bit more time smoothing out the rough edges. (And they happen to include most of the packages *I* happen to want, though nowhere near the variety that Mandrake does. They simplify the task of installation by just flat-out choosing KDE and not giving as many options. Which is ok with me since I happen to like their options. It would presumably not satisfy most Mandrake users, however.) I will probably re-post my "issues" mail, broken up into pieces and cross-posted to the lists, though, just to see if there's any consensus on these issues that might motivate Mandrake to solve them or at least to respond . . . On Wed, 08 Mar 2000, you wrote: | On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: | | On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to |remove it? | | | | No supermount does work. | | | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | | care to learn, | | I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . | | Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? | | HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? | | The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. | | THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! | | I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been | reading minds at all. | | The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, | and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. | | I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents | laziness on my part. | | | | Funny less than 45 seconds with a browser and search engine and I came | up with a link to a rather nice README on supermount here: | | http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/mopsy-linux/Documentation/filesystems/supermount.txt | | I could suggest a little less caffeine in your diet while I'm at it. | | -- | Rich Clark | | Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html | Help bring us more Linux Drivers -- I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html .
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
"Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) I must say as well that I've been unimpressed by the lack of response to my "cooker" missive regarding installation issues and I will probably leave the Mandrake fold once Caldera comes out with their next distribution. They seem to spend a bit more time smoothing out the rough edges. (And they happen to include most of the packages *I* happen to want, though nowhere near the variety that Mandrake does. They simplify the task of installation by just flat-out choosing KDE and not giving as many options. Which is ok with me since I happen to like their options. It would presumably not satisfy most Mandrake users, however.) I will probably re-post my "issues" mail, broken up into pieces and cross-posted to the lists, though, just to see if there's any consensus on these issues that might motivate Mandrake to solve them or at least to respond . . . | Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html | Help bring us more Linux Drivers -- I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html . I haven't seen much to impress in Caldera as far as smoothing rough edges. I install a LOT of linux systems, and Caldera is smooth only to the point of where you have hardware it isn't preprogrammed for. Then the tools are inadequate, the documentation doesn't match the performance and the telephone support can't pull up its own socks. The supposedly prepaid email support has never once responded to a registered inquiry in my experience, which encompasses 6 systems, 2 with 2.2 and 4 hopefuls (wishful thinking) with 2.3. Tis a fine thing that they include StarOffice in their distro because it is annoying to try to install Sun's edition there. The number of symlinks you have to make to get the error messages to go away is, I suppose, manageable in a script file once you discover them all, but why bother? These are self-help lists, and the presence of Mandrakesoft personnel here is NOT obligatory on their part. In other words, after his 14-hour day, the Mandrake programmer might skim the 200 or so emails on the various lists and respond to something that catches the eye, but then their status is another expert trying to help someone for basically altruistic reasons. Response to "issues" in the software usually should be expectable from the email support address for that purpose when you send email with your registration number. Moreover, some of the issues on install have a solution unpalatable to the folks who are at the helm for this distro. They involve returning to 386 code because a number of manufacturers have been cutting corners they should not have cut in little things like drive timing. The result is that the 586 code linuxes and the 686 code linuxes and even the 486 code linuxes are evoking these problems. Notable is the timing of the Western Digital IDE drive and the Seagate IDE Ultra-DMA drives. A slow WD master and a fast Maxtor slave will destroy each other's data with timing chatter, for example. Seagates are the source of many of the "lost interrupt" signals you see. And this happens with the Stampede distros as well. It is a HARDWARE problem. This distro is one of those that is pointing to it, and I would expect you will see disk drive manufacturers and other hardware manufacturers flock to the banner of compliance with standards to preserve their sales in the near future. But if for your needs you are satisfied with a 386-code linux, Caldera is the least likely to cause you complaint, even though they will fall well below your obviously high standards for answering issues and offering documentation. Civileme -- experimentation involving more than 500 trials with an ordinary slice of bread and a tablespoon of peanut butter has determined that the probability a random toss will land sticky side down (SSD) is approximately .98
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Not sure what your problems were but many of the common issues people have can be solved by openning a terminal and typing man (subject of the moment) Jim Pilrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Just another crazy guy, Champion of the Underdogs of this world ***On Mon, 13 Mar 2000, you wrote: I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) I must say as well that I've been unimpressed by the lack of response to my "cooker" missive regarding installation issues and I will probably leave the Mandrake fold once Caldera comes out with their next distribution. They seem to spend a bit more time smoothing out the rough edges. (And they happen to include most of the packages *I* happen to want, though nowhere near the variety that Mandrake does. They simplify the task of installation by just flat-out choosing KDE and not giving as many options. Which is ok with me since I happen to like their options. It would presumably not satisfy most Mandrake users, however.) I will probably re-post my "issues" mail, broken up into pieces and cross-posted to the lists, though, just to see if there's any consensus on these issues that might motivate Mandrake to solve them or at least to respond . . . On Wed, 08 Mar 2000, you wrote: | On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: | | On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? | | | | No supermount does work. | | | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | | care to learn, | | I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . | | Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? | | HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? | | The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. | | THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! | | I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been | reading minds at all. | | The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, | and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. | | I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents | laziness on my part. | | | | Funny less than 45 seconds with a browser and search engine and I came | up with a link to a rather nice README on supermount here: | | http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/mopsy-linux/Documentation/filesystems/supermount.txt | | I could suggest a little less caffeine in your diet while I'm at it. | | -- | Rich Clark | | Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html | Help bring us more Linux Drivers -- I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html . -- Jim Pilrose [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Just another crazy guy, Champion of the Underdogs of this world ***
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
"Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. I think that I had that expectation at one time. It has been corrected. That is THE place to look for info, whether it is Microsoft, Caldera, RedHat, Debian, FreeBSD, BeOS, or what have you. In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) Well, the MacMillan distro is just the bare essentials--the power pack has 6 or 7 CDs I must say as well that I've been unimpressed by the lack of response to my "cooker" missive regarding installation issues and I will probably leave the Mandrake fold once Caldera comes out with their next distribution. They seem to spend a bit more time smoothing out the rough edges. Principal focus on cooker at this time would be preparing new packages. The sort of interaction you seek happens during a code freeze when the folks at Mandrakesoft are responding to nearly every missive, not only with a comment but often with a fix. You might want to hang around long enough to find out what it is like. As for Caldera's "smoothing out the rough edges", I sent a separate post about my experiences. I had zero sound working on 6 installations that I eventually trashed for Mandrake. The kernel tools in Caldera seem to make it HARDER to handle modules that Mandrake by quite a lot. It was almost like fighting win98 install wizards. (And they happen to include most of the packages *I* happen to want, though nowhere near the variety that Mandrake does. They simplify the task of installation by just flat-out choosing KDE and not giving as many options. Which is ok with me since I happen to like their options. It would presumably not satisfy most Mandrake users, however.) "Daddy, why do we have to hide from the police?" "Because we use emacs, son. They use vi." I will probably re-post my "issues" mail, broken up into pieces and cross-posted to the lists, though, just to see if there's any consensus on these issues that might motivate Mandrake to solve them or at least to respond . . . If you're not trying to fix it, it must not be a problem. G Seriously, I will be looking forward to seeing your "issues". BIG SNIP I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html . Civileme -- experimentation involving more than 500 trials with an ordinary slice of bread and a tablespoon of peanut butter has determined that the probability a random toss will land sticky side down (SSD) is approximately .98
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
On Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 22:09 -0500, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. It depends. If you "buy" the free version (i.e. d'l the ISO of the main CD from the net) then it is IMHO unavoidable to get further documentation from the same source - the net. If you buy a full pack you should have all included. Like the "all inclusive" tours around the Windy City where you are entitled to get mugged. (Sorry folks up there, could've picked any city. Just personal experiences.) In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) So how can you blame Mandrake for something Macmillan does? I don't know what Macmillan or Goofy or one of the trolls in Tolkien's universe ship, I just know what Mandrake ships. That's a 6 CD set for the PowerPack. Same kind of complaint that folks here in the main bookstore started. All were waiting for the new Mandrake PowerPack to be delivered. Then it came. Then it was *not* the PowerPack from Mandrake but the DeLuxe pack from Macmillan (which the store ordered), on sale for 189,00 DM. People started to complain saying that Mandrake announced the pack to cost around 90,00 DM. Now it costs nearly the double. They didn't realize that it was not the Mandrake pack but the Macmillan pack. I think it's all a matter of *exact* information. wobo -- GPG-Fingerprint: FE5A 0891 7027 8D1B 4E3F 73C1 AD9B D732 A698 82EE For Public Key mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with Subject: GPG-Request --- ISDN4LINUX-FAQ -- Deutsch: http://www.wolf-b.de/i4l/i4lfaq-de.html
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Brianwhen I tried out Caldera there were sure enough rough edges for me. Also, the real official Linux Mandrake Power Pack has 6 cd's and a whole bunch of stuff in rpm format that you can't find anywhere else (like star office wordperfect). Maybe you shouldn't write off Mandrake so easily or quickly or lightly? Enjoy. Alan "Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: I suppose that I have an expectation that I shouldn't have to go to the net to get documentation on new features in the distribution. In my case it would seem that I got a bad copy of Mandrake 'cause I only seem to have two disks though the package looks like it's meant to hold three of 'em. (I got the Macmillan package.) I must say as well that I've been unimpressed by the lack of response to my "cooker" missive regarding installation issues and I will probably leave the Mandrake fold once Caldera comes out with their next distribution. They seem to spend a bit more time smoothing out the rough edges. (And they happen to include most of the packages *I* happen to want, though nowhere near the variety that Mandrake does. They simplify the task of installation by just flat-out choosing KDE and not giving as many options. Which is ok with me since I happen to like their options. It would presumably not satisfy most Mandrake users, however.) I will probably re-post my "issues" mail, broken up into pieces and cross-posted to the lists, though, just to see if there's any consensus on these issues that might motivate Mandrake to solve them or at least to respond . . . On Wed, 08 Mar 2000, you wrote: | On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: | | On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? | | | | No supermount does work. | | | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | | care to learn, | | I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . | | Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? | | HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? | | The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. | | THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! | | I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been | reading minds at all. | | The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, | and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. | | I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents | laziness on my part. | | | | Funny less than 45 seconds with a browser and search engine and I came | up with a link to a rather nice README on supermount here: | | http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/mopsy-linux/Documentation/filesystems/supermount.txt | | I could suggest a little less caffeine in your diet while I'm at it. | | -- | Rich Clark | | Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html | Help bring us more Linux Drivers -- I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html .
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Alan Shoemaker wrote: Vincentthanks. What was supposed to be on there were some docs for supermount. Are they brief enough to post here for those of us who haven't any access to them? Here you are, sorry for the inconvenience. For documentation woes, please use the adress: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We'll be glad to answer. Camille. supermount.8.bz2
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Camillethanks, glad to know that you're there and thanks for the file, but on my system this file is already installed in the man pages. What we were talking about was the only available docs for supermount were the man page and the --help switch and that there were no additional docs or how-to's. Axalon jumped in and commented 'Could have fooled me have you looked on disk #3' and I stated that probably nobody discussing this had a powerpack in which to look for the docs on disc 3. At this popint we still don't. Thanks again, Alan Camille Begnis wrote: Alan Shoemaker wrote: Vincentthanks. What was supposed to be on there were some docs for supermount. Are they brief enough to post here for those of us who haven't any access to them? Here you are, sorry for the inconvenience. For documentation woes, please use the adress: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We'll be glad to answer. Camille. Name: supermount.8.bz2 supermount.8.bz2Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) Encoding: base64
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Alan Shoemaker wrote: Axalonthere's a significant thread here that I guess you missed, try the archives. A group of us has been discussing supermount problems for over a week now and you've not been contributing at all (nor has anyone else from MandrakeSoft). Brian is rightfully upset when you accuse him directly of not careing to learn as should be all of us who have been involved in this thread. You talk about disc 3 to a bunch of folks who either downloaded an iso or bought a GPL? Probably no one here has a powerpack that, by the way was only announced as available on February 28th which was less than a week and a half ago. Just as an FYI, Disk 3 of the PowerPack is basically contribs, not anything more special than that. I haven't followed the thread either but this did catch my attention so just in case you're wondering what's on disc 3, that's what it is. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net Freezer Burn BBS: telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721 Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn: http://www.freezer-burn.org
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
"Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: As I gather it, supermount works . . . .. . . but not for a CD-RW, and my only CD-ROM is a CD-RW. .. . . but not for ext2 floppies, and I tried one of those second. .. . . but not for an LS-120 drive (I don't have one of those, at least). .. . . but not with filesystem of "auto" (which I happen to like). So my take is that it's not quite "ready for prime time," though if you have a thoroughly conventional system which you use in a thoroughly conventional way . . . well, then, you're running Windows, then, aren't you? . . . I mean, then it would work for you. I have a somewhat unconventional system and I've been using Unixy systems for nearly 20 years now and I found Supermount just got in my way. YMMV. Brian, My take is that supermount was dressed up to look like windows to make LM more accessible to newbies and generally easier to use, and that in itself is admirable, despite it getting in the way of people who came to Unix a while back. It is a pity it only works with windows floppies but hopefully that will be fixed. -- Dennis Robertson 2/2 Sylvia Street NOOSAVILLE QLD 4566 AUSTRALIA Phone: 61 7 54742343 Mobile: 0419 535539 Fax: Phone first for setup.
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
Supermount works fine with my CD-RW. I've only burned one disk since I upgraded but I experienced no problems. I used cdrecord at the command line. The only thing it had to do was eject the drive once so it could rescan it or something like that. Richard On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, you wrote: As I gather it, supermount works . . . .. . . but not for a CD-RW, and my only CD-ROM is a CD-RW. ... . . but not for ext2 floppies, and I tried one of those second. ... . . but not for an LS-120 drive (I don't have one of those, at least). ... . . but not with filesystem of "auto" (which I happen to like). So my take is that it's not quite "ready for prime time," though if you have a thoroughly conventional system which you use in a thoroughly conventional way . . . well, then, you're running Windows, then, aren't you? . . . I mean, then it would work for you. I have a somewhat unconventional system and I've been using Unixy systems for nearly 20 years now and I found Supermount just got in my way. YMMV.
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? | | No supermount does work. | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | care to learn, I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? Honestly where i get off is none of anyones bussiness.. I say that because thats what has been told to me. Had you voiced a reason prior to my message i would have included it, as i did everyone else. HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? RTFM The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. well no. why should it, you don't have a 'man vfat' do you. it simply tells you what the script does.. THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! Could have fooled me have you looked on disk #3 I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been reading minds at all. Hey if thats for a voluntary reason, you really should share the knowledge :) The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. what devices are you refering too? I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents laziness on my part. Point me to your email where you voiced your problems, otherwise you have no right to be offended if you _choose_ to keep your fustrations to yourself . (note i'm not realy trying to be nasty, but god damn man say something when your upset, and not just to the guy sitting next to you or whatever, it doesn't do anyone any good if we don't know what your haveing problems with) Please don't take this as an attack it's not, it's not even specificly directed at you (the last part of course..), I hear lots of "well i've been trying to . for a week/month", sounds similar to shooting ones self in the foot once you hear it second hand doesn't it.. -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
- Original Message - From: Rich Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 5:59 AM Subject: Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount) On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? | Funny less than 45 seconds with a browser and search engine and I came up with a link to a rather nice README on supermount here: http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/mopsy-linux/Documentation/filesystems/supermount.txt An excerpt from the docs explains a lot about the problems posted here: Caveats and Provisos There are still some limitations to the current version of supermount. I hope to overcome these shortly in future releases, but for now, be aware that: * You can only specify one filesystem type on the mount command line. Supermount cannot yet autodetect the type of filesystem you supply. --- note * With the 2.0 kernel, CDROM door locking has been made much more aggressive. You will probably find that once supermount has mounted your disk, you cannot unmount it again. Not helpful! * The only filesystem which is supported read/write with supermount is msdos. The msdos filesystem has the special characteristic that it never has to access the disk when you unmount it, so supermount can safely defer the unmounting until after the disk is removed. That doesn't work so well for filesystems such as ext2fs which try to write to the filesystem when it is unmounted. --- note Hoyt __ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Axalonthere's a significant thread here that I guess you missed, try the archives. A group of us has been discussing supermount problems for over a week now and you've not been contributing at all (nor has anyone else from MandrakeSoft). Brian is rightfully upset when you accuse him directly of not careing to learn as should be all of us who have been involved in this thread. You talk about disc 3 to a bunch of folks who either downloaded an iso or bought a GPL? Probably no one here has a powerpack that, by the way was only announced as available on February 28th which was less than a week and a half ago. I think you owe Brian and all the rest of us involved in the supermount thread a big apology! We've been trying very hard, with no help from any mandrakeSoft personel, to work out the problems that people have been having with supermount. Alan Axalon Bloodstone wrote: On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Brian T. Schellenberger wrote: On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? | | No supermount does work. | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | care to learn, I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? Honestly where i get off is none of anyones bussiness.. I say that because thats what has been told to me. Had you voiced a reason prior to my message i would have included it, as i did everyone else. HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? RTFM The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. well no. why should it, you don't have a 'man vfat' do you. it simply tells you what the script does.. THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! Could have fooled me have you looked on disk #3 I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been reading minds at all. Hey if thats for a voluntary reason, you really should share the knowledge :) The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. what devices are you refering too? I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents laziness on my part. Point me to your email where you voiced your problems, otherwise you have no right to be offended if you _choose_ to keep your fustrations to yourself . (note i'm not realy trying to be nasty, but god damn man say something when your upset, and not just to the guy sitting next to you or whatever, it doesn't do anyone any good if we don't know what your haveing problems with) Please don't take this as an attack it's not, it's not even specificly directed at you (the last part of course..), I hear lots of "well i've been trying to . for a week/month", sounds similar to shooting ones self in the foot once you hear it second hand doesn't it.. -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
Re: lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
Well, I don't save all my old e-mails, but I posted to the cooker list on Sun 27 Feb with "Suggestions/Problems ( praise) w/rt Mandrake 7.0" and a brief reprise on Thu 2 Mar wondering if anybody had read it. I've mentioned the problem with me not being able to find the how-tos in at least least a couple other mails, at least one of which was on the expert list. Since I was trying to save from exploding the messages with the postings (and after asking the cooker list how folks preferred that I do it) I hadn't posted specifically on the "howto" topic. It was in that "Suggestions" mail. W/r/t to the supermount, I've posted in Tue 7 Mar and at other times. Also, FWIW (I don't know if this gets back to you folks or not) I had a problem related to supermount and my CD-RW mailed into Macmillan's support line the day I installed Mandrake 7.0. I've posted at least four times w/r/t to this topic since I got on this list. I don't think I've exactly been a shrinking violet about the problems I've had with supermount. I'll forward you both my most recent mail about supermount and my mail about numerous issues after I send this one.
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
Richard Yevchak wrote: It works for me. I'd like to know how many people who had problems with supermount were unable to get it to work and those that were able to get it to work. All we see is the request for help then nothing. That leads me to assume it worked. Richard On Mon, 06 Mar 2000, you wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Thanks Alan For me supermount works fine for vfat floppies and cdroms. It doesn't want to know ext2 floppies and it seems (not completely verified as yet because I have not checked what happens with supermount disable) that it defeats all other attempts to read ext2 floppies using conventional means. That is I am completely unable to read ext2 floppies. Which is not good if I need Tom's root boot, I think. -- Dennis Robertson 2/2 Sylvia Street NOOSAVILLE QLD 4566 AUSTRALIA Phone: 61 7 54742343 Mobile: 0419 535539 Fax: Phone first for setup.
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000, you wrote: I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Well, based on the reports in this list, I would say it's "buggy" rather than that it doesn't work. John
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? use the provided script 'supermount disable' to remove all the fstab modifications. If you still have lingering doubts it can be fully removed by rebuilding the src.rpm and commenting out the patch %patch36, specificly, just like any other modifcation you "dislike". I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Quite normal.. if it's not broke don't fix it is the motto i believe Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? No supermount does work. It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't care to learn, Richard among others who see it as just more work and others whos prefered GUI already handles mounting. Autodetection of the filesystem type isn't the best, a big problem for people whose only access to the internet is done via floppy from some other machine usualy Windows based. I imagine it's a literal nightmare for those with LS-120 and similar drives where the removeable media can have all sorts of partition/filesystem types. To record a cd, cdrecord must "jump thru hoops" to get the drive to the default state. Others are just concerned about security. Honestly? Yep. Thanks Alan -- MandrakeSoft http://www.mandrakesoft.com/ --Axalon
lack of documentation (was Re: [expert] Removing supermount)
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000, Axalon wrote: | On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, alann wrote: | | Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove |it? | | No supermount does work. | | It like everything else has basic do's and dont's that some people don't | care to learn, I'm sorry, I've stayed restrained for a long time, but . . . Where do you get off saying that people "don't care to learn"??? HOW THE HELL ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT? The man entry for supermount doesn't discuss any of this. THERE ARE NO #@$! HOWTOS IN MANDRAKE 7.0!!! I've been using Unix for 19 years, and Linux for 6, but I've not been reading minds at all. The sources of information I'm used to consulting don't explain this, and when I installed Mandrake 7.0, my devices were just plain WRONG. I am rather offended at the suggestion that this somehow represents laziness on my part. -- I am "Brian, the man from babble-on" (Brian T. Schellenberger). I can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . I support http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org . I boycott amazon.com. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html .
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
As I gather it, supermount works . . . .. . . but not for a CD-RW, and my only CD-ROM is a CD-RW. .. . . but not for ext2 floppies, and I tried one of those second. .. . . but not for an LS-120 drive (I don't have one of those, at least). .. . . but not with filesystem of "auto" (which I happen to like). So my take is that it's not quite "ready for prime time," though if you have a thoroughly conventional system which you use in a thoroughly conventional way . . . well, then, you're running Windows, then, aren't you? . . . I mean, then it would work for you. I have a somewhat unconventional system and I've been using Unixy systems for nearly 20 years now and I found Supermount just got in my way. YMMV.
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 06 Mar 2000, you wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Thanks Alan Alan, Supermount works. Unfortunately, the install routine on 7.0 while it properly sets up the supermount lines in /etc/fstab does not necessarily set up /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdc or /dev/cdrom2 - /dev/sdc or something similar depending on your hardware configuration. As a result, supermount doesn't appear to work because not all path pointers are in place. The general "cure" is ln -fs /dev/hdx /dev/cdrom and similar for /dev/cdrom2 The idea is essentially simple -- mount it empty and check it often... Generally, one would not want to supermount a cdrw, because it has to be unmounted to burn. Unfortunately some people try to supermount a cdrw and then wonder why it will NOT burn. That's my best guess. Look in the cooker list archives for additional detail. Civileme P. S. I am using 7.0 and loving it, and so are some of my users, those not engaged in a whispering campaign to bring back windows.
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Civileme wrote: On Mon, 06 Mar 2000, you wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Thanks Alan Alan, Supermount works. Unfortunately, the install routine on 7.0 while it properly sets up the supermount lines in /etc/fstab does not necessarily set up /dev/cdrom - /dev/hdc or /dev/cdrom2 - /dev/sdc or something similar depending on your hardware configuration. As a result, supermount doesn't appear to work because not all path pointers are in place. The general "cure" is ln -fs /dev/hdx /dev/cdrom and similar for /dev/cdrom2 The idea is essentially simple -- mount it empty and check it often... Generally, one would not want to supermount a cdrw, because it has to be unmounted to burn. Unfortunately some people try to supermount a cdrw and then wonder why it will NOT burn. That's my best guess. Look in the cooker list archives for additional detail. Civileme P. S. I am using 7.0 and loving it, and so are some of my users, those not engaged in a whispering campaign to bring back windows. I've seen cdrecord eject my cdrw with supermount active with the following message: Reloading device to return to proper state. Wording may not be exact but you get the gist of the it. Looks like they've cured that problem. -- Rich Clark Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html Help bring us more Linux Drivers
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
Alanit works fine for me on two very different systems and I do not want to remove it. Others seem to want to remove/disable it because it doesn't work for them on their systems. Alan alann wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Thanks Alan
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Rich Clark wrote: Supermount works fine here. I think what we have here is a bit of FUD about a new feature that is not well-documented. And then there's us old guys... Supermount is too windows for us. :-) Cheers!, -- Richard Potter Re/Max Team ideal Realty Inc. Kingston, ON CANADA http://www.kingstonhouses.com
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Richard Potter wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Rich Clark wrote: Supermount works fine here. I think what we have here is a bit of FUD about a new feature that is not well-documented. And then there's us old guys... Supermount is too windows for us. :-) Cheers!, Point well-taken. But, damn it, it is kinda nice not having to stop and type "mount /dev/whatever" every time I wanna look at a disk. And what's more "windows"-like than point click at an icon on X? -- Rich Clark Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html Help bring us more Linux Drivers
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
It works for me. I'd like to know how many people who had problems with supermount were unable to get it to work and those that were able to get it to work. All we see is the request for help then nothing. That leads me to assume it worked. Richard On Mon, 06 Mar 2000, you wrote: Larry Sword wrote: Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? I just gotta few questions.. I am a MDK user, since 5.3.. I am still at 6.1, due to the flood of trouble reports here on MDK 7.0.. Just curious, does supermount NOT work?? Why are so many people wanting to remove it? Honestly? Thanks Alan
[expert] Removing supermount
How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? Is it enough to replace all lines refering to it in /etc/fstab with the more conventional /dev/... references, or are there other files to edit too. thanks] Trevor POWER! to the penguin...
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? Is it enough to replace all lines refering to it in /etc/fstab with the more conventional /dev/... references, or are there other files to edit too. thanks] Trevor remove ? man supermount You can disable. Simply do as root : supermount disable Larry
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? Is it enough to replace all lines refering to it in /etc/fstab with the more conventional /dev/... references, or are there other files to edit too. thanks] Trevor remove ? man supermount You can disable. Simply do as root : supermount disable Larry All that will do is read in your fstab and substitute supermount with auto and vice-versa depending on the arguments "enable" and "disable". The supermount command makes no other changes. -- Rich Clark Sign the petition at http://www.libranet.com/petition.html Help bring us more Linux Drivers
Re: [expert] Removing supermount
Rich Clark wrote: On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Larry Sword wrote: Trevor Farrell wrote: How do I completely remove supermount from my system??? Is it enough to replace all lines refering to it in /etc/fstab with the more conventional /dev/... references, or are there other files to edit too. thanks] Trevor remove ? man supermount You can disable. Simply do as root : supermount disable Larry All that will do is read in your fstab and substitute supermount with auto and vice-versa depending on the arguments "enable" and "disable". The supermount command makes no other changes. -- Rich Clark Well okay. 1. Supermount is a kernel feature. 2. In Air 7.0 ,AFAIK, it is built as a module, /lib/modules/2.2.14-15mdk/fs/supermount. 3. During boot is called from /etc/rc.d/init.d/mandrake_everytime 4. The script is /usr/sbin/supermount So I suppose that to completely remove it one could recompile the kernel or modify the calling script. Since my system works quite well with supermount and can be disabled I can't see any reason to remove. The other reason is I'm not a programer and feel very uncomfortable modifying scripts and have no reason to recompile the kernel. Larry
