[FairfieldLife] It's not as if BP was lying to us in their ads

[TurquoiseB]

Like this one, from 1999:

  [http://i.imgur.com/ZSPKG.jpg]

[FairfieldLife] Read more on ppjp?

[cardemaister]

Just figgered out how to "tune up" my vibhuutis ("saMyamas").

Well, that might well be just a typical temporary effect,
based of shraddhaa, but if it lasts at least some time, might write something 
about it on "ppjp":

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppjp/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> Dan was special -- way wise beyond his age. Not that he was 
> a guru one would seek, but that it was he who sought -- sought 
> hearts to engage -- and pushed them faster into depth and clarity.

The same depth and clarity that drove him to 
taking his own life?

Edg, I *understand* that you found someone who
was willing to go back and forth with you over
the emotional hyperbole of spirituality, and
that this made a big impression on you. I never
met or interacted with the dude, and I have a 
somewhat different impression, based on the
followup to his death, and what has been posted
by him and about him.

I'm seeing more of the "echo chamber effect" I
wrote about earlier, back when Ravi was being
touted as the latest realized being by this 
*same* group of discerning seers. The reaction
I'm seeing on BATGAP and to some extent in some
of the posts forwarded to FFL is "protect the
idea that we're realized," along with an IMO
unhealthy dose of "realization is by definition
100% life supporting...it's all good." 

Duh. The lesson one should take away from this
whole sad business is IMO more along the lines
of "realizations come and go, they're *not* 
inherently all "life-supporting," and sometimes
they need *real* feedback from someone who knows
the pitfalls of spiritual practice and how to
deal with them. 

On reflection, I do *not* think that a group of
amateurs dealing with confusing experiences that
they share is the same thing as being in a trad-
ition that has seen this sort of thing for many
centuries, and has learned over those centuries
which of the confusing experiences *are* really
beneficial and which are not. Nothing I have read 
in the followups to Daniel's death leads me to
believe that anyone in the satsang group or on 
the BATGAP forum has that kind of perspective. 

My points all along have been that the desire 
to "protect the realization" is not an inherently
safe one. It "works" to create a group who can
feel all cool and realized because no matter what
they say to others around them, they tend to get
reflected back to them a hearty "Yeah...that's 
some neat realization all right." But what happens 
when someone says something that should trigger 
alarm bells in the listeners, and no alarm bells 
go off? 

I am *not* trying to "assign blame" in this. I 
*more* than understand the sense of isolation that
someone who has convinced themselves that they are
"realized" enforce upon themselves. I am merely
pointing out some of the dangers inherent in doing
so, and the dangers of people around them *rein-
forcing* possibly unsound ideas because their
allegiance is still to an unsound piece of dogma:
"Meditation and realization are 100% life-supporting."

Things *can* and *do* "go wrong" along the Way. My
point is that you're not likely to get any real 
feedback on whether the experiences you're caught
up in and overwhelmed by are positive or negative
from a group of people who are still committed to
the unsound idea that all of them are positive.

Just my opinion...


> I just posted this at another site:
> 
> 
> Dan is an evolutionary wind at my back; he shepherds me still.
> 
> He words still scintillate living inside my intent.
> 
> I;ve read his words for hours today and there's not a hint of 
> any fading of the power with which he effortlessly touches a life.
> 
> Not that he wrote creatively, though he did, not that his love 
> was angelic, though it was, not that he slogged for hours writing 
> to help me step into love, and he did, it is the source that 
> flowed through him that I can never forget, for is not the 
> silence of his missingness yet the best of him?
> 
> When thoughts stop, there he is.
> 
> Yet do I cry and cry and cry . . . his bell still tolls for me.
> 
> Edg
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> > 
> > >> FW;
> > >> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. 
> > >> this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known 
> > >> the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he 
> > >> was thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some 
> > >> way. intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to 
> > >> be receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita 
> > >> group all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the 
> > >> mentor and teacher and he had no one." 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about.  They may 
> > > never have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and 
> > > respected Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but 
> > > the group in general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he 
> > > had people he respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.
> > 
> > I sure hope not, Rick.  Th

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

I believe Acedia was compliments of Doug Hamilton.  Perhaps he will consent to 
explain his rationale for it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 10:44 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > What is Acedia, and how did it end up in the title of this thread?
> 
> I was wondering the same thing. 
> 
> "Acedia (also accidie or accedie, from Latin acidÄ­a, and this from Greek 
> ἀκηδία, negligence) describes a state of listlessness or torpor, of 
> not caring or not being concerned with one's position or condition in the 
> world. It can lead to a state of being unable to perform one's duties in 
> life. Its spiritual overtones make it related to but distinct 
> fromdepression.[1] Acedia was originally noted as a problem among monks and 
> other ascetics who maintained a solitary life."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acedia
> 
> Sal
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 10:44 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

> What is Acedia, and how did it end up in the title of this thread?

I was wondering the same thing. 

"Acedia (also accidie or accedie, from Latin acidĭa, and this from Greek 
ἀκηδία, negligence) describes a state of listlessness or torpor, of not caring 
or not being concerned with one's position or condition in the world. It can 
lead to a state of being unable to perform one's duties in life. Its spiritual 
overtones make it related to but distinct fromdepression.[1] Acedia was 
originally noted as a problem among monks and other ascetics who maintained a 
solitary life."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acedia

Sal

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

What is Acedia, and how did it end up in the title of this thread?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

Thank you

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of seventhray1
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:06 PM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
>  
>   
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> 
> > These days the people in the Wednesday satsang under 30 often outnumber
> > those over 30. A lot of MUM kids show up.
> >
> What is the satsang group, and what does the group do, if you don't mind my
> asking? 
> Not at all. It's a discussion group. No chanting. The purpose is to discuss
> and thereby hopefully clarify one's experience. A sort of catalytic effect
> takes place through the mutual interaction. Everyone's experience gets
> enlivened.
> Satsangs are devotional chants right? 
> Chanting can be part of a satsang, but is not part of this one.
> But I have gleaned that experiences are also discussed, or maybe that is the
> main course, and devotional chants are a minor part. Any clarification would
> be appreciated.
> Hope that helps. Ask more if you wish.
>

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of seventhray1
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:06 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , "Rick Archer"  wrote:

> These days the people in the Wednesday satsang under 30 often outnumber
> those over 30. A lot of MUM kids show up.
>
What is the satsang group, and what does the group do, if you don't mind my
asking? 
Not at all. It's a discussion group. No chanting. The purpose is to discuss
and thereby hopefully clarify one's experience. A sort of catalytic effect
takes place through the mutual interaction. Everyone's experience gets
enlivened.
Satsangs are devotional chants right? 
Chanting can be part of a satsang, but is not part of this one.
But I have gleaned that experiences are also discussed, or maybe that is the
main course, and devotional chants are a minor part. Any clarification would
be appreciated.
Hope that helps. Ask more if you wish.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:

> He went to law school several years ago. Had been working in his father's
> business until recently.
>
A CPA firm I believe.  Depending on where your head might be, it could be 
difficult to envision a career of tax work and accounting. I mean, I know some 
people who had great experiences and went into tax law, and  built a nice 
career doing so, but they always stayed centered in who they were.   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:

> These days the people in the Wednesday satsang under 30 often outnumber
> those over 30. A lot of MUM kids show up.
>
What is the satsang group, and what does the group do, if you don't mind my 
asking?  Sansangs are devotional chants right?  But I have gleaned that 
experiences are also discussed, or maybe that is the main course, and 
devotional chants are a minor part.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[feste37]

I'm afraid you're wrong on that last point. See the Catholic Encyclopedia on 
suicide: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero"  wrote:
>
> 
> I worked with a genuine Ghost Whisperer for 20 years. The result of her work 
> with sucides uncovered no particular demerits for that act apart from the 
> emotional baggage that may accompany it. In other words, deep depression may 
> accompany many suicidal cases; something that has to be discarded as people 
> ascend into the higher planes according to the model of the Tibetan Book of 
> the Dead.  But as a "sin against God"...I don't see that, or any basis for 
> that apart from Biblical myths and various Midieval interpreters such as 
> Dante and Hieronymous Bosch. 
> 
> 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > On May 30, 2010, at 7:35 PM, feste37 wrote:
> > 
> > > My only point, you silly, angry, abusive man, is that God does not smile 
> > > on self-slaughter, however prettily it may be dressed up. 
> > 
> > And you know this because...?
> > feste, no offense, but you sound silly and
> > desperate, like a New-Age holy-roller.
> > Good luck with that.
> > 
> > Sal
> >
>

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:22 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  
On May 30, 2010, at 8:12 PM, seventhray1 wrote:
> Sal Sunshine  
>> And also along these lines, Rick--didn't anyone else
>> find it a tad odd that Dan was spending much of his
>> free time, between the satsang group and the Buddha
>> chat group--with people much older than him? I get
>> the feeling, after reading some of the posts there, that
>> people were so flattered that someone young wanted
>> to spend time with them, that perhaps they weren't thinking
>> of Dan's best interests--like why someone who was 25
>> was trying so hard to be "wise" or "deep." I agree he comes
>> off as more mature than his years might suggest--but is
>> that supposed to be a good thing? The whole
>> situation sounds profoundly unhealthy.
> 
> When you think about it, that does seem a little odd. At 25 you likely
have a girl friend.

He did have one, somewhat older than himself (I think)
who I believe had just ended the relationship.
True. Amicably.

> You're thinking about work.

He was in law school, so again I don't understand
where he found the time to do all the postings he
did, go to meetings, etc.
He went to law school several years ago. Had been working in his father's
business until recently.

Re: [FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on bbc...

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:51 PM, ditzyklanmail  wrote:

>
>
> What is a TB?
>
>
True Believer -- it's in our monthly blasts.  Watch for them.



>
> --
> *From:* It's just a ride 
> *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sun, 30 May, 2010 6:05:56 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on
> bbc...
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:05 AM, ditzyklanmail  co.in
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/6161691. 
>> stm
>>
>>
>>
> Very funny but can't be used in this Capital part of the Lone Star State
> against Indians because of the language and cultural barriers.The joke
> about those condoms (actually cans of chew tobacco) the rodeo stars have in
> their Lee jeans scaring off non-Texas girls when they discover they are in
> reality condoms (actually the ain't).  You have to hear or read the joke and
> have it taken for real to get it.  If you're a TB, you shouldn't have read
> this far.
>
>
>
> 
>



-- 
"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" –
Spike Milligan

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:27 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
And also along these lines, Rick--didn't anyone else
find it a tad odd that Dan was spending much of his
free time, between the satsang group and the Buddha
chat group--with people much older than him? I get
the feeling, after reading some of the posts there, that
people were so flattered that someone young wanted
to spend time with them, that perhaps they weren't thinking
of Dan's best interests--like why someone who was 25
was trying so hard to be "wise" or "deep." I agree he comes
off as more mature than his years might suggest--but is
that supposed to be a good thing? The whole
situation sounds profoundly unhealthy.
These days the people in the Wednesday satsang under 30 often outnumber
those over 30. A lot of MUM kids show up.

Re: [FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on bbc...

[ditzyklanmail]

What is a TB?






From: It's just a ride 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 30 May, 2010 6:05:56 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on bbc...

  
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:05 AM, ditzyklanmail  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/6161691. stm
>
>
>

Very funny but can't be used in this Capital part of the Lone Star State 
against Indians because of the language and cultural barriers.The joke 
about those condoms (actually cans of chew tobacco) the rodeo stars have in 
their Lee jeans scaring off non-Texas girls when they discover they are in 
reality condoms (actually the ain't).  You have to hear or read the joke and 
have it taken for real to get it.  If you're a TB, you shouldn't have read this 
far.  

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[yifuxero]

I worked with a genuine Ghost Whisperer for 20 years. The result of her work 
with sucides uncovered no particular demerits for that act apart from the 
emotional baggage that may accompany it. In other words, deep depression may 
accompany many suicidal cases; something that has to be discarded as people 
ascend into the higher planes according to the model of the Tibetan Book of the 
Dead.  But as a "sin against God"...I don't see that, or any basis for that 
apart from Biblical myths and various Midieval interpreters such as Dante and 
Hieronymous Bosch. 


-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 7:35 PM, feste37 wrote:
> 
> > My only point, you silly, angry, abusive man, is that God does not smile on 
> > self-slaughter, however prettily it may be dressed up. 
> 
> And you know this because...?
> feste, no offense, but you sound silly and
> desperate, like a New-Age holy-roller.
> Good luck with that.
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> And also along these lines, I found this link on Rick's
> chat group:  
> 
> http://rorygoff.com/open/the-observatory/dan-swartz/

Thanks for posting this.  This was helpful is seeing who he was, hearing him 
speak, picking up some nuances.  Sort of sounds like he was quite a talker ala 
Rory.  I mean, his postings, and exchanges with Edg are interesting. But they 
are so laden with esoeterica.  I mean, what if the inner life is not in 
alignment with the outer expression?  Not a good recipe for any kind of happy 
life.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Facebook Question

[I am the eternal]

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:39 PM, gullible fool  wrote:

>
>
>
> I think it's legitimate. I don't think most phonies would go into such
> detail filling out a bogus Facebook page, plus his page has got some
> high-level TM people on the friends list, people I think would find out
> pretty quickly if it were not legitimate and some of whom might even have
> contacted him or his office before accepting the invitation.
>
> The Bio is pretty much word for word what is on the MUM website, which
> makes me think his assistant may have done much of the work in creating his
> page:
>
> http://www.mum.edu/admin/trustees.html
>
> Bevan is on wikipedia. It says there were 7,000 on the Utopia course. That
> sounds low. There were claims during the course that 8,000+ were flying
> together at times.
>

There were up to 9,000+ flying at once, according to accounts.  But who
knows the actual numbers?  The IA numbers are cooked like BLS numbers or
Conference Board numbers.




>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevan_Morris
>
> Rick, do you think it is possible Bevan does not know you are not in good
> standing with the TMO?
>
> *
> "Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,'
> only love."
>
> - Amma
> *
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/25/10, Rick Archer * wrote:
>
>
> From: Rick Archer 
> Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Facebook Question
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 10:11 PM
>
>
>
>   *From:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Sal Sunshine
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:39 PM
> *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Facebook Question
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 25, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
>
>
> > Is it possible to set up a bogus Facebook account, representing yourself
> as a different person, using his name and photo, and then invite actual
> friends of that person to be your friends (fooling them into thinking that
> you are him)?
>
> Rick, does this have anything to do with the
> fact that Bevan (or somebody pretending to
> be him) has suddenly appeared on FB?
>
> Yes, and sent me a friend invitation, which I accepted. He's inviting all
> sorts of people whom you would expect to be his friends, but me? In my
> typical "all points on the spectrum" fashion, part of me is actually rather
> fond of part of him.
>

But then again you have a tin ear when it comes to listening, IMHO.

> Here's his profile page:
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=11136626853&ref=ts
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 8:12 PM, seventhray1 wrote:
> Sal Sunshine  
>> And also along these lines, Rick--didn't anyone else
>> find it a tad odd that Dan was spending much of his
>> free time, between the satsang group and the Buddha
>> chat group--with people much older than him?  I get
>> the feeling, after reading some of the posts there, that
>> people were so flattered that someone young wanted
>> to spend time with them, that perhaps they weren't thinking
>> of Dan's best interests--like why someone who was 25
>> was trying so hard to be "wise" or "deep." I agree he comes
>> off as more mature than his years might suggest--but is
>> that supposed to be a good thing? The whole
>> situation sounds profoundly unhealthy.
> 
> When you think about it, that does seem a little odd.  At 25 you likely have 
> a girl friend.

He did have one, somewhat older than himself (I think)
who I believe had just ended the relationship.

> You're thinking about work.

He was in law school, so again I don't understand
where he found the time to do all the postings he
did, go to meetings, etc.

> Unless you are positioning yourself for something different.  The postings of 
> his I have read, sound like so many new age figures like Tolle, Lady Ga Ga, I 
> mean Gangaji (sorry about that).  At any rate, the situation does sound a 
> little incogruous.  But that may just be a silly bias.

I don't think it's a silly bias at all--I think it
may go right to the heart of the matter.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

Sal Sunshine  
> And also along these lines, Rick--didn't anyone else
> find it a tad odd that Dan was spending much of his
> free time, between the satsang group and the Buddha
> chat group--with people much older than him?  I get
> the feeling, after reading some of the posts there, that
> people were so flattered that someone young wanted
> to spend time with them, that perhaps they weren't thinking
> of Dan's best interests--like why someone who was 25
> was trying so hard to be "wise" or "deep." I agree he comes
> off as more mature than his years might suggest--but is
> that supposed to be a good thing? The whole
> situation sounds profoundly unhealthy.

When you think about it, that does seem a little odd.  At 25 you likely have a 
girl friend.  You're thinking about work.  Unless you are positioning yourself 
for something different.  The postings of his I have read, sound like so many 
new age figures like Tolle, Lady Ga Ga, I mean Gangaji (sorry about that).  At 
any rate, the situation does sound a little incogruous.  But that may just be a 
silly bias.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 7:35 PM, feste37 wrote:

> My only point, you silly, angry, abusive man, is that God does not smile on 
> self-slaughter, however prettily it may be dressed up. 

And you know this because...?
feste, no offense, but you sound silly and
desperate, like a New-Age holy-roller.
Good luck with that.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

You turning Republican on us Feste? You'll get an Amen from this corner. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I can't believe all the New Age nonsense I'm reading in various places about 
> this unfortunate young man. Someone is saying he was "not from this planet"? 
> This is crazy! It is a very tragic and sad incident. This young man 
> desperately needed help and he did not receive it. His much-vaunted spiritual 
> knowledge did not help him, so what use was it to him or anyone? You cannot 
> serve your spiritual evolution by suicide. You cannot dictate to the universe 
> the place you wish to occupy in it. That is not for you to decide. Anyone who 
> believes otherwise is a fool. In Dante's L'Inferno, the Wood of the Suicides 
> is located in the second ring of the Seventh Circle of Hell. Read it for 
> yourselves. It is not pleasant.  
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > exulted & mentally ill,,
> > 
> > FW,,
> > 
> > "I think a lot of people are shocked and confused esp the young people 
> > here. Wondering if suicide is a okay method to move on, if things are 
> > rough. Rick Archer gave this moving talk of love about the depth of 
> > Daniel's exp and with all the talk of how he was not from this planet etc. 
> > ,,,
> > I didn't buy a lot of that last night. Jesus and Shankara didn't kill 
> > themselves to get out of the body as I know I've never heard of a saint who 
> > was so trapped in this realm and finished with his work he blew his brains 
> > out. 
> > ,,,
> > Daniel may have been a very high guy but it still seems to me. he was 
> > identified with what ever pain, human or cosmic he was experiencing and as 
> > long as there is a 'me' sense there , there is work to do in this realm and 
> > this body. 
> > okay. `no mistake'. I get that. his time was up and for me its more that he 
> > did as much as he could do and couldn't bare the pain of it and didn't know 
> > how to stop the flow of it thru him. or stop identifying with it. he didn't 
> > know how to shift his attention to who is experiencing the pain etc. 
> > a proper teacher could have helped him." 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[feste37]

My only point, you silly, angry, abusive man, is that God does not smile on 
self-slaughter, however prettily it may be dressed up. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I can't believe all the New Age nonsense I'm reading in various places
> about this unfortunate young man.
> 
> So you're an expert on New Age, eh?
> 
> So you are one who can determine that he was unfortunate?
> 
> Someone is saying he was "not from this planet"? This is crazy!
> 
> So you know all the planets and every entity thereon?
> 
> So you are one who can determine if something is crazy?
> 
> It is a very tragic and sad incident.
> 
> So you are one who can frame something as tragic and sad?
> 
> This young man desperately needed help and he did not receive it.
> 
> So you know everything he did and all the folks he talked in the last
> month?
> 
> His much-vaunted spiritual knowledge did not help him, so what use was
> it to him or anyone?
> 
> So you know that the clarity I think that he helped me advance towards
> was all for naught and that my life would be no less evolved had I not
> written back and forth with him for hundreds of posts?  So this ache in
> my heart is mere mood making?
> 
> You cannot serve your spiritual evolution by suicide.
> 
> So, you've died before and know this?  You're in touch with God about
> this?
> 
> You cannot dictate to the universe the place you wish to occupy in it.
> 
> So you've personally interviewed the universe and gotten this knowledge?
> 
> That is not for you to decide.
> 
> So no one is allowed to decide unless they get someone else to decide
> for them?
> 
> Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.
> 
> So I am a fool?
> 
> In Dante's L'Inferno, the Wood of the Suicides is located in the second
> ring of the Seventh Circle of Hell. Read it for yourselves. It is not
> pleasant.
> 
> So Dante visited Hell and got the skinny on what sinner goes where?
> 
> Sounds to me like you're one fucking big guru yourself -- SHITHEAD!
> 
> Edg
> 
> 
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > exulted & mentally ill,,
> > >
> > > FW,,
> > > 
> > > "I think a lot of people are shocked and confused esp the young
> people here. Wondering if suicide is a okay method to move on, if things
> are rough. Rick Archer gave this moving talk of love about the depth of
> Daniel's exp and with all the talk of how he was not from this planet
> etc.
> > > ,,,
> > > I didn't buy a lot of that last night. Jesus and Shankara didn't
> kill themselves to get out of the body as I know I've never heard of a
> saint who was so trapped in this realm and finished with his work he
> blew his brains out.
> > > ,,,
> > > Daniel may have been a very high guy but it still seems to me. he
> was identified with what ever pain, human or cosmic he was experiencing
> and as long as there is a 'me' sense there , there is work to do in this
> realm and this body.
> > > okay. `no mistake'. I get that. his time was up and for me its more
> that he did as much as he could do and couldn't bare the pain of it and
> didn't know how to stop the flow of it thru him. or stop identifying
> with it. he didn't know how to shift his attention to who is
> experiencing the pain etc.
> > > a proper teacher could have helped him." 
> > >
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 7:26 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

>> On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
>> 
 FW;
 "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. 
 this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the 
 last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was 
 thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. 
 intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be 
 receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group 
 all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and 
 teacher and he had no one." 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about. They may never 
>>> have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected 
>>> Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in 
>>> general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he 
>>> respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.
>> 
>> I sure hope not, Rick. There seems to be something
>> profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people
>> looking to someone more than half their age as a
>> "mentor and teacher," JMO.

And also along these lines, I found this link on Rick's
chat group:  

http://rorygoff.com/open/the-observatory/dan-swartz/

featuring our very own Rory Goff, doing precisely what
Rory does best--nothing.  After listening to a few minutes
of this, I began to wonder if maybe Dan died of boredom.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Duveyoung]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
>
>
>
> I can't believe all the New Age nonsense I'm reading in various places
about this unfortunate young man.

So you're an expert on New Age, eh?

So you are one who can determine that he was unfortunate?

Someone is saying he was "not from this planet"? This is crazy!

So you know all the planets and every entity thereon?

So you are one who can determine if something is crazy?

It is a very tragic and sad incident.

So you are one who can frame something as tragic and sad?

This young man desperately needed help and he did not receive it.

So you know everything he did and all the folks he talked in the last
month?

His much-vaunted spiritual knowledge did not help him, so what use was
it to him or anyone?

So you know that the clarity I think that he helped me advance towards
was all for naught and that my life would be no less evolved had I not
written back and forth with him for hundreds of posts?  So this ache in
my heart is mere mood making?

You cannot serve your spiritual evolution by suicide.

So, you've died before and know this?  You're in touch with God about
this?

You cannot dictate to the universe the place you wish to occupy in it.

So you've personally interviewed the universe and gotten this knowledge?

That is not for you to decide.

So no one is allowed to decide unless they get someone else to decide
for them?

Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.

So I am a fool?

In Dante's L'Inferno, the Wood of the Suicides is located in the second
ring of the Seventh Circle of Hell. Read it for yourselves. It is not
pleasant.

So Dante visited Hell and got the skinny on what sinner goes where?

Sounds to me like you're one fucking big guru yourself -- SHITHEAD!

Edg


>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > exulted & mentally ill,,
> >
> > FW,,
> > 
> > "I think a lot of people are shocked and confused esp the young
people here. Wondering if suicide is a okay method to move on, if things
are rough. Rick Archer gave this moving talk of love about the depth of
Daniel's exp and with all the talk of how he was not from this planet
etc.
> > ,,,
> > I didn't buy a lot of that last night. Jesus and Shankara didn't
kill themselves to get out of the body as I know I've never heard of a
saint who was so trapped in this realm and finished with his work he
blew his brains out.
> > ,,,
> > Daniel may have been a very high guy but it still seems to me. he
was identified with what ever pain, human or cosmic he was experiencing
and as long as there is a 'me' sense there , there is work to do in this
realm and this body.
> > okay. `no mistake'. I get that. his time was up and for me its more
that he did as much as he could do and couldn't bare the pain of it and
didn't know how to stop the flow of it thru him. or stop identifying
with it. he didn't know how to shift his attention to who is
experiencing the pain etc.
> > a proper teacher could have helped him." 
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

> On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> >> FW;
> >> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. 
> >> this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the 
> >> last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was 
> >> thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. 
> >> intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be 
> >> receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group 
> >> all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and 
> >> teacher and he had no one." 
> > 
> > 
> > Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about. They may never 
> > have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected 
> > Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in 
> > general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he 
> > respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.
> 
> I sure hope not, Rick. There seems to be something
> profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people
> looking to someone more than half their age as a
> "mentor and teacher," JMO.

And also along these lines, Rick--didn't anyone else
find it a tad odd that Dan was spending much of his
free time, between the satsang group and the Buddha
chat group--with people much older than him?  I get
the feeling, after reading some of the posts there, that
people were so flattered that someone young wanted
to spend time with them, that perhaps they weren't thinking
of Dan's best interests--like why someone who was 25
was trying so hard to be "wise" or "deep." I agree he comes
off as more mature than his years might suggest--but is
that supposed to be a good thing? The whole
situation sounds profoundly unhealthy.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat May 29 00:00:00 2010
End Date (UTC): Sat Jun 05 00:00:00 2010
161 messages as of (UTC) Sun May 30 23:56:52 2010

20 seventhray1 
17 TurquoiseB 
14 WillyTex 
12 authfriend 
10 Rick Archer 
 9 Buck 
 8 Bhairitu 
 7 raunchydog 
 7 It's just a ride 
 7 Duveyoung 
 6 Sal Sunshine 
 6 Joe 
 6 "do.rflex" 
 5 cardemaister 
 4 wayback71 
 4 nablusoss1008 
 4 ditzyklanmail 
 3 Jason 
 2 brian64705 
 2 Vaj 
 1 yifuxero 
 1 uns_tressor 
 1 johnlasher20002000 
 1 hermandan0 
 1 feste37 
 1 Mike Dixon 
 1 John 
 1 Alex Stanley 

Posters: 28
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Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of It's just a ride
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:54 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Alex Stanley
 wrote:
 
I think he's referring to the BATGAP crowd that gathers at Tom Traynor's
place every week.

So that's what the group is called.  Glad it now has a name.  The old name,
Satsung, kind of fit it but yeah, I can see where the BATGAP discussion
group would be appropriate.  And BATGAP reminds of "bats in the belfry", an
apt statement for both Traynor's group and the BATGAP group.
 
Not. That's just an acronym for my interview show, Buddha at the Gas Pump.
It's only association with the Wednesday Night Satsang group is that I
attend the latter, as do some of the people I've interviewed, and some of
the people on the BATGAP chat group.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Duveyoung
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:39 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  
Dan was special -- way wise beyond his age. Not that he was a guru one would
seek, but that it was he who sought -- sought hearts to engage -- and pushed
them faster into depth and clarity.

I just posted this at another site:

Dan is an evolutionary wind at my back; he shepherds me still.

He words still scintillate living inside my intent.

I;ve read his words for hours today and there's not a hint of any fading of
the power with which he effortlessly touches a life.

Not that he wrote creatively, though he did, not that his love was angelic,
though it was, not that he slogged for hours writing to help me step into
love, and he did, it is the source that flowed through him that I can never
forget, for is not the silence of his missingness yet the best of him?

When thoughts stop, there he is.

Yet do I cry and cry and cry . . . his bell still tolls for me.

Edg
I'm definitely going to read that one at his memorial, if you don't mind.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:33 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  
On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

>> FW;
>> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others.
this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the
last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was
thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way.
intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be
receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all
think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher
and he had no one." 
> 
> 
> Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about. They may never
have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected
Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in
general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he
respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.

I sure hope not, Rick. There seems to be something
profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people
looking to someone more than half their age as a
"mentor and teacher," JMO.
I wouldn't find that odd. Christ died at 33, Shankara at 32. The latter was
a guru from his early teens. I don't think chronological age correlates
tightly with wisdom, or the age of the soul, if souls have ages. But anyway,
that wasn't our relationship with Dan. He was one of the gang. If he talked
too much, someone would ask him to button his lip and give others a chance.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[feste37]

I can't believe all the New Age nonsense I'm reading in various places about 
this unfortunate young man. Someone is saying he was "not from this planet"? 
This is crazy! It is a very tragic and sad incident. This young man desperately 
needed help and he did not receive it. His much-vaunted spiritual knowledge did 
not help him, so what use was it to him or anyone? You cannot serve your 
spiritual evolution by suicide. You cannot dictate to the universe the place 
you wish to occupy in it. That is not for you to decide. Anyone who believes 
otherwise is a fool. In Dante's L'Inferno, the Wood of the Suicides is located 
in the second ring of the Seventh Circle of Hell. Read it for yourselves. It is 
not pleasant.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> exulted & mentally ill,,
> 
> FW,,
> 
> "I think a lot of people are shocked and confused esp the young people here. 
> Wondering if suicide is a okay method to move on, if things are rough. Rick 
> Archer gave this moving talk of love about the depth of Daniel's exp and with 
> all the talk of how he was not from this planet etc. 
> ,,,
> I didn't buy a lot of that last night. Jesus and Shankara didn't kill 
> themselves to get out of the body as I know I've never heard of a saint who 
> was so trapped in this realm and finished with his work he blew his brains 
> out. 
> ,,,
> Daniel may have been a very high guy but it still seems to me. he was 
> identified with what ever pain, human or cosmic he was experiencing and as 
> long as there is a 'me' sense there , there is work to do in this realm and 
> this body. 
> okay. `no mistake'. I get that. his time was up and for me its more that he 
> did as much as he could do and couldn't bare the pain of it and didn't know 
> how to stop the flow of it thru him. or stop identifying with it. he didn't 
> know how to shift his attention to who is experiencing the pain etc. 
> a proper teacher could have helped him." 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Jarvis interview

[It's just a ride]

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 9:20 PM, yifuxero  wrote:

> Just now forwarded to Jerry:
>
> Jerry:  some people on the FairfieldLife forum are challenging you to come
> up with some personal subjective experiences, rather than simply talking
> about the bubble diagram:
>
> Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Link to Yesterday's Jerry Jarvis Interview
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Rick Archer  wrote:
>
>
>
>
I bet real PayPal money that

1) Jerry will not agree
2) If done via a Rick Archer interview, Rick will wimp out of the interview,
saying it's unfair to bait an old man who should be left along to give his
pro-TMO 1965 life and times non-interviews just like the one we listened to
today.

-- 
"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" –
Spike Milligan

[FairfieldLife] Raj in Australia, part 2

[nablusoss1008]

http://tinyurl.com/2dna4lf

[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Today's students have less empathy

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon  wrote:
>
> Good for them!! Nothing like being saddled with other people's debts 
> and being their *slaves* to make you worry about your own future. It's about 
> time a new generation return to living according to *natural law* 
> i.e. evolution,  survival of the fittest, allowing the cream to rise to 
> the top, freedom! Of course this leads to so much prosperity that once again, 
> the next generation will have too much free time and again begin to ponder if 
> they can organize life better than nature. 
>


Yes, yes! Let's live like animals! I'll get mine and fuck everybody else! 

There is no morality but selfishness! Greed and selfishness is good! 

Caring for others is for suckers and losers! Compassion is evil! 


"The only virtue is selfishness."
~~ Ayn Rand


> Kudos to the*me generation*, God bless you!


But wait!   ... Did use the word "God" Mr Dixon? 

--Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that 
loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

...If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that 
loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not 
seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother 
also.

1 John 4:7-8, 20-21










 
> 
> 
> 
> From: do.rflex 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 9:22:36 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy
> 
>   
> 
> 
> Today's College Students Lack Empathy
> By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor
> posted: 28 May 2010 08:05 am ET
>          Live Science - College students today are less likely to 
> "get" the emotions of others than their counterparts 20 and 30 years ago, a 
> new review study suggests. 
> Specifically, today's students scored 40 percent lower on a measure of 
> empathy than their elders did. The findings are based on a review of 72 
> studies of 14,000 American college students overall conducted between 1979 
> and 2009.
> 
> "We found the biggest drop in empathy after the year 2000," said Sara 
> Konrath, a researcher at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social 
> Research. 
> The study was presented this week at the annual meeting of the Association 
> for Psychological Science in Boston. 
> Is "generation me" all about me? 
> Compared with college students of the late 1970s, current students are less 
> likely to agree with statements such as "I sometimes try to understand my 
> friends better by imagining how things look from their perspective, " and "I 
> often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me." 
> "Many people see the current group of college students â€" sometimes called 
> 'Generation Me' â€" as one of the most self-centered, narcissistic, 
> competitive, confident and individualistic in recent history," said Konrath, 
> who is also affiliated with the University of Rochester Department of 
> Psychiatry. 
> Konrath's colleague graduate student Edward O'Brien added, "It's not 
> surprising that this growing emphasis on the self is accompanied by a 
> corresponding devaluation of others." 
> Other recent studies have shown mixed results on the character of today's 
> youth. For instance, one study of more than 450,000 high-school seniors born 
> at different time periods showed today's youth are no more self-centered than 
> their parents were at their age.  
> The role of media 
> Even so, Konrath and O'Brien suggest several reasons for the lower empathy 
> they found, including the ever-increasing exposure to media in the current 
> generation. 
> "Compared to 30 years ago, the average American now is exposed to three times 
> as much nonwork-related information, " Konrath said. "In terms of media 
> content, this generation of college students grew up with video games, and a 
> growing body of research, including work done by my colleagues at Michigan, 
> is establishing that exposure to violent media numbs people to the pain of 
> others." 
> The rise in social media could also play a role. 
> "The ease of having 'friends' online might make people more likely to just 
> tune out when they don't feel like responding to others' problems, a behavior 
> that could carry over offline," O'Brien said. 
> In fact, past research has suggested college students are addicted to social 
> media. 
> Other possible causes include a society today that's hypercompetitive and 
> focused on success, as well as the fast-paced nature of today, in which 
> people are less likely than in time periods past to slow down to really 
> listen to others, O'Brien added. 
> "College students today may be so busy worrying about themselves and their 
> own issues that they don't have time to spend empathizing with others, or at 
> least perceive such time to be limited," O'Brien sai

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Vaj  wrote:


> You mean the FF enlightened sage support group didn't help? No surprise
> there!
>
>
Vaj, you're just bitter because Thom changed the call in number to exclude
you.  But I so much agree with anything anyone says negative about this
group and I was never excluded.  People would drone on and on about the most
common experience and everyone, including Rick, would be impressed on the
depth of the experience.  Thom Traynor would of course pontificate on the
experience.  It's his condo, after all.




> My condolences to his family. What a sad outcome, for a situation that
> sounds like it could have been prevented. Claiming ultimate openness to all
> things and then having someone die because of reticence for psychiatric
> assistance is *truly* *unenlightened*.
>

But his suffering and ultimate death can be seen as a sort of vindication.
The kind of guy you want as a guru.  His deal proves that He was worthy of
Guruship. Enlightenment comes to the unsound of mind (unsound mind in
unsound body?).  It doesn't come by having a guru and following the
instructions of that guru.



>
> I wonder if this is the same Swartz who used to be on the Wednesday Night
> SS list?
>
> --
> "Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy"
> – Spike Milligan
>
>

[FairfieldLife] "The Secret Powers Of Time" and "What Motivates Us?"

[TurquoiseB]

Following up on this earlier rap, here is another in the 
brilliant series of RSAnimate "white board education" 
vides that I find somewhat relevant to the subject. This 
one is about Time, and how our perception of time colors 
our lives and what we are able to get out of those lives.

http://www.neatorama.com/2010/05/29/the-secret-powers-of-time/

For those who didn't see the earlier RSAnimate video
posted here, I will repost its link again below. I think
it's one of the most fascinating 10 minutes of education
I've ever watched. This one is about Motivation, and 
about the fact that what most prevalent economic and 
social models believe about what motivates us is WRONG, 
and achieves the opposite effect to the intended one. 
Its rap about the three most important motivating factors 
-- Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose -- would be well noted 
by the TMO, or by any organization that seeks to motivate 
people to create a better life for themselves and for others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> I replied to this earlier, but it's never turned up,
> so either the WiFi was on the fritz in the cafe I was
> sitting in, or Yahoo is on the rag again. Either way,
> I'm reposting it, because I think it's an interesting
> subject.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ... sometimes, I pause and look at the faces 
> > > > of people walking by and it nearly makes me weep. If  
> > > > it exists, this is truly Kali Yuga.
> > > 
> > > What is it you see in their faces that makes you weep?
> > 
> > I live near New York City, and the faces in this area are 
> > so often filled with anxiety or bone weary fatigue.  I feel 
> > sad not because they are not doing anything to help humanity, 
> > but because so many humans seem to be having a rough time of 
> > it, and really suffering, whether from anxiety or hunger or 
> > illness. Don't get me wrong, basically I am an optimist by 
> > nature. But when I look closely, life sure does seem tough.
> 
> I must say that this thread and this agreement 
> with its content surprises me somewhat, because 
> when I look around on the streets of Spain, I don't 
> see what is being described. Some of it may be "What 
> you focus on you become," but a larger part may be 
> the difference between Europe and the United States.
> 
> My recent trip back to the US reinforced my belief
> that something is wrong with *it* as a country and
> as a psychic environment. It's as if much of the
> population has been trained to forget the joys of
> life and focus on its problems. It's become a nation
> of drama queens.
> 
> I honestly do not see that here. Spain is one of the
> hardest-hit countries in Europe economically, but I
> don't see people walking around all mopey and 
> depressed about it. I see them instead finding 
> opportunities to enjoy their lives wherever they
> can find them, and in ways they can still afford.
> I do *not* see the imminent signs of "Kali Yuga"
> that you guys are talking about.
> 
> I would imagine that if I were living in a war 
> zone my experience would be different. What I'm 
> suggesting is that you guys live in one -- at
> least psychically -- but don't seem to be aware 
> of it. The main reason I moved to Europe some
> seven+ years ago was to get out of the psychic
> aura of the United States, which I considered
> poisonous. I have seen little since that makes
> me reconsider that.
> 
> I really don't have any theories as to WHY this
> difference between the environments seems to be
> true, only that it does. Here I have seen great
> joy and love of life in the midst of poverty;
> there I tend to see great sorrow and drama 
> queen hysterics in the midst of abundance. 
> Go figure.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on bbc...

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:05 AM, ditzyklanmail  wrote:

>
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm
>
>
>
Very funny but can't be used in this Capital part of the Lone Star State
against Indians because of the language and cultural barriers.The joke
about those condoms (actually cans of chew tobacco) the rodeo stars have in
their Lee jeans scaring off non-Texas girls when they discover they are in
reality condoms (actually the ain't).  You have to hear or read the joke and
have it taken for real to get it.  If you're a TB, you shouldn't have read
this far.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Alex Stanley  wrote:

>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > >
> > > "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some
> > > others. this is what my perception was knowing what was going on.
> > > Had I known the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was
> > > too great and he was thinking of killing himself I would have
> > > intervened strongly in some way. intervention may have helped but
> > > at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't know
> > > how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are
> > > beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher
> > > and he had no one." 
> >
> > Buck, not to be intrusive but to understand, could you
> > explain a little about this "advaita group" and Daniel's
> > relationship to it? I don't know him, and I don't know
> > any of the circumstances surrounding this, so it's a
> > little difficult to follow things like the above. Thanks
> > in advance.
>
> I think he's referring to the BATGAP crowd that gathers at Tom Traynor's
> place every week.
>
>
>
So that's what the group is called.  Glad it now has a name.  The old name,
Satsung, kind of fit it but yeah, I can see where the BATGAP discussion
group would be appropriate.  And BATGAP reminds of "bats in the belfry", an
apt statement for both Traynor's group and the BATGAP group.

-- 
"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" –
Spike Milligan

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Duveyoung]

Dan was special -- way wise beyond his age. Not that he was a guru one would 
seek, but that it was he who sought -- sought hearts to engage -- and pushed 
them faster into depth and clarity.

I just posted this at another site:


Dan is an evolutionary wind at my back; he shepherds me still.

He words still scintillate living inside my intent.

I;ve read his words for hours today and there's not a hint of any fading of the 
power with which he effortlessly touches a life.

Not that he wrote creatively, though he did, not that his love was angelic, 
though it was, not that he slogged for hours writing to help me step into love, 
and he did, it is the source that flowed through him that I can never forget, 
for is not the silence of his missingness yet the best of him?

When thoughts stop, there he is.

Yet do I cry and cry and cry . . . his bell still tolls for me.

Edg


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> >> FW;
> >> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. 
> >> this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the 
> >> last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was 
> >> thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. 
> >> intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be 
> >> receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group 
> >> all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and 
> >> teacher and he had no one." 
> > 
> > 
> > Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about.  They may never 
> > have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected 
> > Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in 
> > general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he 
> > respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.
> 
> I sure hope not, Rick.  There seems to be something
> profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people
> looking to someone more than half their age as a
> "mentor and teacher,"  JMO.
> 
> Sal
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

>> FW;
>> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. this 
>> is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the last 2 
>> months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was thinking of 
>> killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention 
>> may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I 
>> don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are 
>> beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher and he had no 
>> one." 
> 
> 
> Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about.  They may never 
> have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected 
> Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in 
> general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he 
> respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.

I sure hope not, Rick.  There seems to be something
profoundly odd about a group of middle-aged people
looking to someone more than half their age as a
"mentor and teacher,"  JMO.

Sal

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of seventhray1
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:10 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  
I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing was
posted here, I didn't want to comment. I do know his parents, or at least
who they are. I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, so if
someone could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.

Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts
seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciousness type things.
He has over 600 posts there.

Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
He took his own life. He was 25.

It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any
insight, that also would be appreciated.
Here are some things Dan wrote, compiled by Edg:
As I go through my conversation with Dan, I'm picking out the quotes that
seem to pertain to loss and how to be benefitted by loss. (Each paragraph
break starts another quote from another part of the conversation.)

Dan's words:

Also, the interesting thing is that fear can arise, and it's not a big deal.
Fear is a perfectly safe feeling, and does not necessarily indicate any
actual danger. On the most fundamental level, I cannot be hurt, and so there
is an instinctual feeling of safety in there that cannot go away, even if
fear (or pure terror) arises. So not only do those feelings arise less and
less, but when they do they are safe, and can even be totally
comfortable

Perhaps each moment feels whole because it is. And THIS is what wholeness
looks like right now. It can't look like anything else in this moment. One
way of talking about Enlightenment is that it is simply the acceptance of
What Is. 

I'm always surprised what I come up with too

But it's important to recognize, I think, that the ego can try to shrink
itself to remain individualized just as much as it can want to puff itself
up. My ego definitely goes the "I'm not good enough" way, so I definitely
know how it is. And it's truly AMAZING how deep that denial of infiniteness
can go. "I'm so great" and "I'm not good enough" are two sides of the same
coin. I think it was Byron Katie who said that true humility is recognizing
how infinite and amazing you truly are for real. And that makes sense,
because to really know that brings the utmost humbleness and appreciation...

The sadness is simply your heart reaching it's edges and expanding to make
more room. Let the sadness be there! Allowing the sadness, being with it,
keeping it company and giving it the attention that it needs and deserves is
the process by which the heart makes room for more everything! 

It's near impossible to see anything clearly that is being resisted, and the
desire to "be done with it" is actually a subtle resistance to that process.
That's one of the reasons why it's a very common response that Enlightenment
does not give you anything. Because you have to accept the all the
negativity that we want to have Enlightenment to avoid in the first
place

The reason those things hurt is because the resistance is still in there
(Maharishi called it stress - which is a bodily manifestation of
resistance). By feeling those resistances, those uncomfortable places until
the whole situation resolves, then it's literally as if it was never there
(except sometimes as a faint memory, like it happened to someone else).
It's, again, like being okay with drowning so that one is no longer afraid
of it. It doesn't help you get away from it, but it's way better than the
stress of trying to avoid it

I think if you let yourself cry forever and fall apart and never be okay
again something wonderful will happen. That is my intuition, and it
resonates with my being. Nothing will ever be the same again. In a very very
good way. Just as long as the crying is the allowance of feeling the sadness
and not an avoidance of it. It's the feeling that fixes it, not necessarily
any particular response. That said, those responses, when natural are good
an important. I hate to say it, but I think you just may be on the brink of
something absolutely wonderful. 
Awareness, in it's real form is always gentle. But I use the word gentle to
point out that it's not going "Change, Resistance! I order you to Change! Do
IT! Release! Do it now or I'll kill you!" because this is obviously
something that cannot be forced. But there can be that constant persistence,
that constant pressure, just like a tight muscle that Awareness (which is
gentle) can stay with until the whole thing unwinds, relaxes, and
resolves

Fortunately, Enlightenment is not a function of the personality, 

Also, we are all here in this Creation like children playing in giant
sandbox. What if the child makes a mistake? Does it matter? What does that
even mean in the context of playing in a sandbox. There's nowhere to go

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[John]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> So, in the immensity of the universe, there isn't some life who may be a 
> little further behind, or ahead who might use that technology?

Zacareah Sitchin has written several books stating that aliens from other 
worlds have visited Earth thousands of years ago.  The evidences for this are 
found in the technologies that built the Giza Pyramid, and the pyramids in 
Meso-America.





  And that begs the question, then why not make contact with a more advanced 
technology. Yes, I know the greys are said to utilize mind control, but there 
is likely there is plenty of other sentient life.  If we are going to go that 
route, then I prefer to think that this little part of the solar system we 
occupy is a considered "no fly" zone as far as interference.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brian64705  wrote:
> >
> > Well this should be another thread, but I find it extraordinary that 
> > intelligent humans would imagine any life out there would use 
> > electomagnetic radiation for communication across the vastness of space. 
> > Since it takes years and years. Does that make any sense? Steven Greer 
> > writes about the absurdity of this idea in his book "Hidden Truth - 
> > Forbidden Knowledge" written in 2006. It's a great book. He did TTC at MIU 
> > in the 70's I believe. He has a term for how ETs phone home - I forget what 
> > but essentially mind to mind communication.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, here's probably a dumb thought. On the radio today it said that in 40 
> > > years of monitoring radio transmissions from outer space, according to 
> > > SETI there has been only one instance of a transmission that fit the 
> > > parameters of something coming from intelligent life.  But it was not 
> > > repeated.  Occurred only once.  I don't know about you, but I think it is 
> > > impossible that we are the only life in the universe.  But so far, only 
> > > one possible radio transmission along these lines, according the the 
> > > people who monitor these things.
> > > 
> > > Now, you propose, or I think you propose that there is a grand, highly 
> > > organized conspiracy that controls the world according to the wishes of 
> > > these individuals.  But where is the convincing evidence.  And I have 
> > > read my share of theories along these lines.  Now, I kind of hope we 
> > > don't have to visit the whole 911, World Trade Building deal. I am 
> > > skeptical of the global conspiracy you bring up periodically.
> > > 
> > > That said, I think there is plenty of greed on every level to keep things 
> > > in a pretty unbalanced way. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd be brutal for sure.  Enforced psychological counseling, enforced 
> > > > education, enforced interventions, enforced public humiliations for the 
> > > > unbending bastards who don't get with the program, enforced public 
> > > > education about relationships, enforced parenting classes with 
> > > > supervised hands on in-situ training, legalization of all drugs, 
> > > > enforced manual labor -- make the CEO clean up those beaches by hand, 
> > > > make his family have to live on his toxic dump site until it gets 
> > > > cleaned up, and on it goes.  (This is the actual translation for my pet 
> > > > phrase "Hang the bastards.")
> > > > 
> > > > A, I'm feeling like my old self.  How am I doing now?
> > > > 
> > > > Edg
> > > > P.S. Of course, I do not maintain that I am smart enough to design any 
> > > > of the above programs.  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, I understand all that. But there are times when you come off 
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > though you would be as brutal as any despot there ever was to 
> > > > > > address
> > > > > all
> > > > > > the injustices you percieve. But now, in the last couple weeks, you
> > > > > > seem, at least to me, more balanced, and may I say, fun to be 
> > > > > > around.
> > > > > > So, I'm not sure how to reconcile those two. But that's my take on
> > > > > > things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Me? Less pissed? I must be slipping up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I should be more pissed, cuz every day in every way the world gets
> > > > > > darker, but I'm wondering if we're all being thusly inured by being
> > > > > > simply overwhelmed and unable to address the entirety of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After all, how many times have I said herein that 10,000 children
> > > > > die
> > > > > > each day from drinking dirty water? Who gets emotional about that? 
> > > > > > Me
> > > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> > >
> > > ... sometimes, I pause and look at the faces 
> > > of people walking by and it nearly makes me weep. If it exists, 
> > > this is truly Kali Yuga.
> > 
> > What is it you see in their faces that makes you weep?
> 
> I live near New York City, and the faces in this area are 
> so often filled with anxiety or bone weary fatigue.  I feel 
> sad not because they are not doing anything to help humanity, 
> but because so many humans seem to be having a rough time of 
> it, and really suffering, whether from anxiety or hunger or 
> illness. Don't get me wrong, basically I am an optimist by 
> nature. But when I look closely, life sure does seem tough.

I must say that this thread and this agreement 
with its content surprises me somewhat, because 
when I look around on the streets of Spain, I don't 
see what is being described. Some of it may be "What 
you focus on you become," but a larger part may be 
the difference between Europe and the United States.

My recent trip back to the US reinforced my belief
that something is wrong with *it* as a country and
as a psychic environment. It's as if much of the
population has been trained to forget the joys of
life and focus on its problems. It's become a nation
of drama queens.

I honestly do not see that here. Spain is one of the
hardest-hit countries in Europe economically, but I
don't see people walking around all mopey and 
depressed about it. I see them instead finding 
opportunities to enjoy their lives wherever they
can find them, and in ways they can still afford.
I do *not* see the imminent signs of "Kali Yuga"
that you guys are talking about.

I would imagine that if I were living in a war 
zone my experience would be different. What I'm 
suggesting is that you guys live in one -- at
least psychically -- but don't seem to be aware 
of it. The main reason I moved to Europe some
seven years ago was to get out of the psychic
aura of the United States, which I considered
poisonous. I have seen little since that makes
me reconsider that.

I really don't have any theories as to WHY this
difference between the environments seems to be
true, only that it does. Here I have seen great
joy and love of life in the midst of poverty;
there I tend to see great sorrow and drama 
queen hysterics in the midst of abundance. Go
figure.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Buck
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:27 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
FW;
"I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. this
is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the last 2
months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was thinking of
killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention
may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I
don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are
beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher and he had no
one."  
Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they're talking about.  They may never
have been to the group, and you certainly haven't. We loved and respected
Dan, and he spoke with great clarity from a great depth, but the group in
general did not look to him as mentor and teacher, and he had people he
respected to whom he could talk as much as he wanted to.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Link to Yesterday's Jerry Jarvis Interview

[seventhray1]

I couldn't listen to more than a minute or two. As you and Buck say.  How dull. 
 Dennis strikes me as a very medicore interviewer. What's his role. Does he do 
occassional interviews? Does he have a regular program?  Besides his Obama 
interview, which I did not listen to, but which I guess he feels is the high 
point of his radio career, has he done anything interesting?  Has he broken any 
stories?  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> 
> Man, that sure is a hard hitting interview!!! Whew!  The sheer openness has 
> me agog.
> 
> Edg
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > KRUU-LP 100.1 FM has posted a link to yesterday's interview with Jerry
> > Jarvis conducted by Speaking Freely's Dennis Raimondi:
> > http://kruufm.com/node/7917
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

exulted & mentally ill,,

FW,,

"I think a lot of people are shocked and confused esp the young people here. 
Wondering if suicide is a okay method to move on, if things are rough. Rick 
Archer gave this moving talk of love about the depth of Daniel's exp and with 
all the talk of how he was not from this planet etc. 
,,,
I didn't buy a lot of that last night. Jesus and Shankara didn't kill 
themselves to get out of the body as I know I've never heard of a saint who was 
so trapped in this realm and finished with his work he blew his brains out. 
,,,
Daniel may have been a very high guy but it still seems to me. he was 
identified with what ever pain, human or cosmic he was experiencing and as long 
as there is a 'me' sense there , there is work to do in this realm and this 
body. 
okay. `no mistake'. I get that. his time was up and for me its more that he did 
as much as he could do and couldn't bare the pain of it and didn't know how to 
stop the flow of it thru him. or stop identifying with it. he didn't know how 
to shift his attention to who is experiencing the pain etc. 
a proper teacher could have helped him." 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On May 30, 2010, at 3:35 PM, Buck wrote:
> 
> > This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
> >> We are failing our young people.
> >> 
> > I would hope they are pulling professionals
> > in to the schools (MSAE & MUM) by first class after this
> > weekend.  Dr. Pete?
> 
> The public schools have long since had some
> pretty good counseling programs, and the MSAE
> finally!  admitted the unthinkable and started
> having professionals come in a few years back.
> But none of these in the last few years were kids.
> The youngest, 1.5 years ago, was a young woman
> either 20 or 21, then a man who was 30, and now 
> Dan, who was 24-25.  I might have given the wrong
> impression when I said, "young people."  I really
> meant young adults, not teens.

How should a community be supporting people 20-30
years old to keep them from committing suicide? IOW,
how has Fairfield been failing them?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 3:35 PM, Buck wrote:

> This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
>> We are failing our young people.
>> 
>> Sal
>> 
> 
> I would hope they are pulling professionals
> in to the schools (MSAE & MUM) by first class after this
> weekend.  Dr. Pete?

The public schools have long since had some
pretty good counseling programs, and the MSAE
finally!  admitted the unthinkable and started
having professionals come in a few years back.
But none of these in the last few years were kids.
The youngest, 1.5 years ago, was a young woman
either 20 or 21, then a man who was 30, and now 
Dan, who was 24-25.  I might have given the wrong
impression when I said, "young people."  I really
meant young adults, not teens.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

>
> 
> This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
> We are failing our young people.
> 
> Sal
>

I would hope they are pulling professionals
in to the schools (MSAE & MUM) by first class after this
weekend.  Dr. Pete?

[FairfieldLife] Re: DOES BP REALLY WANT TO STOP THE SPILL

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "johnlasher20002000" 
 wrote:
>
> What is going on? The BP oil spill could be stopped tomorrow.

Uh, no.

FYI, there's a description of the latest procedure here:

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9033657&contentId=7062491

http://tinyurl.com/2v2maf6

Specifically: "Lines carrying methanol also are connected
to the device to help stop hydrate formation."

BP is well aware of methane chemistry. With the earlier
attempt using the big containment dome, they expected
crystals to form but not so early in the process.

Remember, none of this has ever been attempted before.



> I can't believe that the BP scientists don't know that if they heated the 
> containment bell to a modest 20 degrees centigrade the methane hydrate 
> crystals would not block the opening to the containment vessel. Merely 
> embedding electric heating elements would be one way to accomplish this. The 
> Methane clathrate correlating pressure and temperature is not esoteric 
> knowledge. There is a chart on Wikipedia 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate . A depth of approximately 
> 5000 ft and a temperature of 4 degrees Centigrade is clearly in the range 
> where the methane hydrate crystals form, as indeed they did. Lowering a bell 
> heated to 20 centigrade would prevent the methane hydrate crystals from 
> forming and would allow the oil to flow. This is elementary chemistry. Why 
> hasn't BP done this?

[FairfieldLife] DOES BP REALLY WANT TO STOP THE SPILL

[johnlasher20002000]

What is going on? The BP oil spill could be stopped tomorrow. I can't believe 
that the BP scientists don't know that if they heated the containment bell to a 
modest 20 degrees centigrade the methane hydrate crystals would not block the 
opening to the containment vessel. Merely embedding electric heating elements 
would be one way to accomplish this. The Methane clathrate correlating pressure 
and temperature is not esoteric knowledge. There is a chart on Wikipedia 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate . A depth of approximately 5000 
ft and a temperature of 4 degrees Centigrade is clearly in the range where the 
methane hydrate crystals form, as indeed they did. Lowering a bell heated to 20 
centigrade would prevent the methane hydrate crystals from forming and would 
allow the oil to flow. This is elementary chemistry. Why hasn't BP done this?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Link to Yesterday's Jerry Jarvis Interview

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> I could only listen to a minute or so, it was so dull.  But like you and 
> Buck, what a mediocre interview it was looking to be.  Dennis Raimondi's 
> skill as a interviewer seem pretty thin.  I guess his high water mark was his 
> interview with Obama.  Does he have a regular show?  Has he broken any 
> stories of significance?
> 
>


Well, hows bout a Jerry Jarvis -At-the-Gas-Pump 'special edition'
of Rick's BATGAP, with Jerry?
One where Rick asks the questions that weren't asked.


 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Man, that sure is a hard hitting interview!!! Whew!  The sheer openness has 
> > me agog.
> > 
> > Edg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > KRUU-LP 100.1 FM has posted a link to yesterday's interview with Jerry
> > > Jarvis conducted by Speaking Freely's Dennis Raimondi:
> > > http://kruufm.com/node/7917
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:


> I wish I had been in a position to be more responsible. He hadn't been
to
> the meetings in several weeks, which was unusual for him. The last
time I
> went, I asked where he was, and someone said he was going through a
lot.
> I've since learned that Dan was talking a lot with several people,
whom I
> won't name, and threatening suicide, and either they didn't take him
> seriously enough, or they didn't feel they could do anything to stop
him.
>
Well, don't know if you care to put things into a context or not, but:

Did he have an occupation?

Did he come up through the MSAE?

Would he have been a candidate on BATGAP as one who was having what we
might call experiences of "enlightenment"?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

 Sal Sunshine  wrote:

> This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
> We are failing our young people.

Ok, going out on a limb here.  I knew Fred from my days at MIU. Always enjoyed 
interacting with him, the little that I did.  He was an instructor.  But he 
never struck me as one who was likely to push an agenda on anyone.

When you say that "we" are failing our young people", in what context are you 
making that statement?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:

> The issue nailed in the quote Buck posted is an inter-
> esting one to ponder in my opinion. If you've "outed"
> yourself as enlightened, and thus associated yourself
> with many of the *myths* about enlightenment I've been
> talking about recently, WHO DO YOU TALK TO if
> you start to find that those myths don't seem to be
> working out as advertised? Like the myth about how
> perfect and happy and realized you are 24/7. What
> happens if you start to realize that you're *not*
> all that perfect, and not even all that happy? Who
> do you TALK to about that?


Ok, I'm glad you  brought that up.  And brought it up in a more delicate
fashion than I could.  I read only some of his postings on BATGAP, but
yea, I did get the impression, that he was sort of declaring himself to
have "arrived".   And then, as you say, what do you do when things don't
quite play out the way you envisioned them.

Now, if it were an investment, and you were smart, you cut your losses
right there, and come clean.   But I don't know much about the guy. 
That is why I would like to find out more.  Over on BATGAP, one
participant said that she that prior to the event, she had decided that
she was going to become his "client".  So, I'm not sure in what context
she would have said that.

That said, the two interviews I read of Rama's, one at the beginning of
his career, and one towards the end, I found to be pretty remarkable.  I
think that had I been exposed to his teaching earlier on,  I would have
made the switch.

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[WillyTex]

> > > It was literally in the middle of the night 
> > > and it wasn't only ice cream I was eating...
> > > 
> > You paid over $5,000 and spent six months in
> > Switzerland so you could eat some ice cream?
> >
Joe:
> I actually paid 100K to eat ice cream...
> 
First we had the Ravi Guru, now we have Geezer 
Guru.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

Ok, one other question. In way manner did he end his life?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.  People keep referring to his pain, saying they 
> > didn't realize how intense it was.  I wonder what the pain is they are 
> > referring to.
> > 
> > Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide in the 
> > perspective that he was "needed elsewhere".  I don't know if I buy that.
> > 
> > Sounds like there was depression
> >
> 
> No kidding there.  Spiritual degression.  Were none of those people at those 
> meetings 'manditory reporters'?  & long in their hands evidently, how 
> responsible are Rick and Thom themselves with this young man for this outcome?
> 
>  
> > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm trying to grasp this, trying to get this to gel, but even these few 
> > > words here have me bawling.  I never knew Dan personally, but I spent a 
> > > couple hundred hours writing to him, and that part of me cannot but weep 
> > > and my breath right now is coming in heaves.  Rick asked me to pick some 
> > > of Dan's words for the memorial.  If somehow I can manage to do this, 
> > > I'll share here.
> > > 
> > > Edg
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as 
> > > > nothing was posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his 
> > > > parents, or at least who they are.  I did not want to register at the 
> > > > Fairfield Ledger, so if someone could post the full obituary, it would 
> > > > be appreciated.
> > > > 
> > > > Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts 
> > > > seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.
> > > > 
> > > > Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
> > > > 
> > > > It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer 
> > > > any insight, that also would be appreciated.
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to 
> > > > > his life this last week.
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Vaj  wrote:

>
>
> IME the "dark night" is widely valued and promoted by this (and other FF)
> groups. However it was never clear if the people who had 'passed thru their
> dark night of the soul' (and then promoted such experiences as valuable for
> "enlightenment"/"awakening") were just people just happened to survive a
> particularly bad bout of depression and were parsing their recovery from
> that depression as "special" or if they were truly in some more integrated
> state of consciousness. In any event, such state-chasing support groups are
> potential disasters just waiting to happen. Couple that with the general TM
> Org-based fear that psychiatric medication will dampen or prevent the
> unfolding of "higher states of consciousness" and you have a recipe for all
> kinds of things.
>

The horror.  The horror.  Imagine.  I was a meditator, nay TM sidha, nay
participant of IA whose kitchen table served as the pub for other IA
participants, resident at the Raj, fellow residents of Rukmapura and
residents at Utopia Park and less in town.  I kept my bottle of Prozac on
that kitchen table.  I was asked if DEVCO knew about the bottle.  I
responded that they didn't ask.  TBs drew away from the bottle, everyone
else just enjoyed the tea, scones and conversation.  I took the bottle with
me to my Ayurvedic consult.  I was told if I took panchakarma I would have
to stay on the Prozac exactly as ordered, how much PK did I want to schedule
and did I want to take it in our out of Raj residence?




>
> Hopefully this will be a "wake up" call *of a different kind* for these
> groups that pretend to dispense wisdom, but instead delve in an area where
> they really have little expertise.
>
>
>

This was to happen as part of our dealing with lessors like consultants at
Whole Foods and the like.  We would actually for the first time let low
lives become involved in our affairs.  Haven't we dealt with an underclass
all of our existence by paying meditators and maybe sidhas very low wages
for the privilege or working in the library or presiding over TSR?


-- 
"Money can't buy you friends, but it does get you a better class of enemy" –
Spike Milligan

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Today's students have less empathy

[Bhairitu]

do.rflex wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon  wrote:
>   
>> Good for them!! Nothing like being saddled with other people's debts 
>> and being their *slaves*Â to make you worry about your own future. It's 
>> about time a new generation return to living according to *natural law* 
>> i.e. evolution,  survival of the fittest, allowing the cream to rise to 
>> the top, freedom! Of course this leads to so much prosperity that once 
>> again, the next generation will have too much free time and again begin to 
>> ponder if they can organize life better than nature. Kudos to the*me 
>> generation*, God bless you!
>>
>> 
>
> Yes, yes! Let's live like animals! I'll get mine and fuck everybody else! 
>
> There is no morality but selfishness! Greed and selfishness is good! 
>
> Caring for others is for suckers and losers! Compassion is evil! 
>   

Not to mention that what the article describes is also  the classic 
definition of a psychopath.  Is that what is coming up?  A generation of 
psychopaths?  Maybe that is what is needed for the coming road warrior 
world.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Buck
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:09 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield
 
  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 , "seventhray1" 
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply. People keep referring to his pain, saying they
didn't realize how intense it was. I wonder what the pain is they are
referring to.
> 
> Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide in the
perspective that he was "needed elsewhere". I don't know if I buy that.
> 
> Sounds like there was depression
>

No kidding there. Spiritual degression. Were none of those people at those
meetings 'manditory reporters'? & long in their hands evidently, how
responsible are Rick and Thom themselves with this young man for this
outcome?
I wish I had been in a position to be more responsible. He hadn't been to
the meetings in several weeks, which was unusual for him. The last time I
went, I asked where he was, and someone said he was going through a lot.
I've since learned that Dan was talking a lot with several people, whom I
won't name, and threatening suicide, and either they didn't take him
seriously enough, or they didn't feel they could do anything to stop him.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Today's students have less empathy

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon  wrote:
>
> Good for them!! Nothing like being saddled with other people's debts 
> and being their *slaves* to make you worry about your own future. It's about 
> time a new generation return to living according to *natural law* 
> i.e. evolution,  survival of the fittest, allowing the cream to rise to 
> the top, freedom! Of course this leads to so much prosperity that once again, 
> the next generation will have too much free time and again begin to ponder if 
> they can organize life better than nature. Kudos to the*me generation*, God 
> bless you!
> 

Yes, yes! Let's live like animals! I'll get mine and fuck everybody else! 

There is no morality but selfishness! Greed and selfishness is good! 

Caring for others is for suckers and losers! Compassion is evil! 


"The only virtue is selfishness."
~~ Ayn Rand


> Kudos to the*me generation*, God bless you!


But wait!   ... Did use the word "God" Mr Dixon? 

--Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that 
loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

...If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that 
loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not 
seen?

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother 
also.

1 John 4:7-8, 20-21

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:

> > I live near New York City, and the faces in this area are 
> > so often filled with anxiety or bone weary fatigue.  I feel 
> > sad not because they are not doing anything to help humanity, 
> > but because so many humans seem to be having a rough time of 
> > it, and really suffering, whether from anxiety or hunger or 
> > illness. Don't get me wrong, basically I am an optimist by 
> > nature. But when I look closely, life sure does seem tough.
> 
> I must say that this thread and this agreement 
> with its content surprises me somewhat, because 
> when I look around on the streets of Spain, I don't 
> see what is being described. Some of it may be "What 
> you focus on you become," but a larger part may be 
> the difference between Europe and the United States.

Or it may simply be the difference between the purely
anecdotal observations of two people in two quite
limited geographical areas. To extrapolate from those
observations to the entire United States and the whole
of Europe doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Just as another data point, I live 20 miles from NYC,
and I don't see in people's faces what Wayback does.
(Didn't see it when I lived in NYC up until nine years
ago, either, FWIW.)

[FairfieldLife] Crop circle 'inspired by most beautiful formula in mathematics' appears in Wilts

[nablusoss1008]

Crop circle 'inspired by most beautiful formula in mathematics' appears
in Wiltshire A crop circle thought to be inspired by a formula acclaimed
as the most beautiful in all mathematics has appeared on a hillside in
Wiltshire.
By Matthew Moore 
Published: 5:30PM BST 24 May 2010
  [The circle, which is more than 300ft in diameter, was cut into a field
of oil seed rape by Wilton Windmill at Wilton near Marlborough. ]   The
circle, which is more than 300ft in diameter, was cut into a field of
oil seed rape by Wilton Windmill at Wilton near Marlborough. Photo: PIN
The circle, which is more than 300ft in diameter, was cut into a field
of oil seed rape by Wilton Windmill at Wilton near Marlborough.

Experts say that the design may be connected to Euler's Identity, a
complex formula devised by the 18th Century Swiss mathematician Leonhard
Euler.
   Related Articles
*  Weird news review of the year 2008

*  Man arrested for shooting over heads of crop circle fans

*  Mayan 'apocalypse' crop circle appears at Silbury Hill

*  Crop circle found in Wiltshire

*  The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh 'take an interest' in crop
circles, says private secretary

*  The Italian Job challenge: Hang on lads, I've got a great idea . .
.


Lucy Pringle, the crop circle researcher who photographed the formation
from a helicopter after it appeared in the early hours of Saturday
morning, said that each segment of the circle represented an element of
the formula.

The pattern of dashes and spaces against each of the lines coming out of
the centre forms the binary code for symbols and letters of the alphabet
which feature in Euler's Identity, it is claimed.

She said: "This is one of the most profound and complicated equations of
the past 2,000 years, and we think the crop circle is some form of
visual translation."

The Wilton Windmill pattern is the latest in a long line of mathematical
crop circles in Britain. In 2008 a coded image representing the first 10
digits of pi was discovered in a barley field in Wiltshire.

Euler's Identity is admired by mathematicians for linking several
fundamental mathematical constants.

Keith Devlin, professor of mathematics at Stanford University in
California, said that the formula "reaches down into the very depths of
existence ... like a Shakespearean sonnet that captures the very essence
of love."

[FairfieldLife] Bush Claimed War the "best way to revitalize the economy"

[Bhairitu]

That's what former Argentina president Néstor Kirchner told him:

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0529/argentinas-president-bush-claimed-the-revitalize-economy-war/

See what kind of nuts we've let run (or ruin) the world.  Time to ring 
them in and take away their power.

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[Joe]

That's it Willy. I actually paid 100K to eat ice cream. I ate it while watching 
MMY have sex and then reported it to the CIA.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
>
> > So, you got kicked off the course for not
> > following the rules...
> >
> Joe:
> > It was literally in the middle of the night 
> > and it wasn't only ice cream I was eating...
> >
> You paid over $5,000 and spent six months in
> Switzerland so you could eat some ice cream?
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Separating the myth of enlightenment from the reality

[Joe]

First there was Ravi Guru. Now we have Tex Guru.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
>
 The amount of enlightenment you experience is 
> directly proportionate to the amount of suffering 
> you experience. You are only going to get as much 
> enlightenment as you are going to get. No amount 
> of striving is going to bring you any closer to 
> the enlightened state. 
> 
> Meditation isn't the cause of enlightenment - 
> meditation simply provides the ideal opportunity 
> for the transcending. 
> 
> "The way into bliss is the way out of suffering."

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[Bhairitu]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> I replied to this earlier, but it's never turned up,
> so either the WiFi was on the fritz in the cafe I was
> sitting in, or Yahoo is on the rag again. Either way,
> I'm reposting it, because I think it's an interesting
> subject.
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>   
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>> 
>>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>>>   
 ... sometimes, I pause and look at the faces 
 of people walking by and it nearly makes me weep. If  
 it exists, this is truly Kali Yuga.
 
>>> What is it you see in their faces that makes you weep?
>>>   
>> I live near New York City, and the faces in this area are 
>> so often filled with anxiety or bone weary fatigue.  I feel 
>> sad not because they are not doing anything to help humanity, 
>> but because so many humans seem to be having a rough time of 
>> it, and really suffering, whether from anxiety or hunger or 
>> illness. Don't get me wrong, basically I am an optimist by 
>> nature. But when I look closely, life sure does seem tough.
>> 
>
> I must say that this thread and this agreement 
> with its content surprises me somewhat, because 
> when I look around on the streets of Spain, I don't 
> see what is being described. Some of it may be "What 
> you focus on you become," but a larger part may be 
> the difference between Europe and the United States.
>   

Or maybe it's because unlike the US, Spain and a lot of European 
countries have had wars and tyrants rule their lands.  Perhaps they've 
learned to "wing" these economic ups and downs better.  But then many of 
the people in Europe are the ones that stayed there while other fled to 
the US for better opportunities.  Or it could be you run around too much 
looking through imaginary "rose colored glasses." ;-)

I maintain that the clearer the mind the more you're going to see the 
bigger picture and it's accompanying problems.  It also means that you 
experience it as a "line on water" even if others believe you are 
"scared" or "worried" just because you are pointing out what should be 
obvious.

The economy is screwed.  It was raped and pillaged by the very rich: 
those 1% who own 40% of the wealth.  At best they should have only been 
allowed accumulate 4% of the wealth.  Their apologists think the rich 
are just smarter but are they just smart crooks.  I think the latter.  
Some have even admitted they shouldn't have been allowed to accumulate 
such wealth but the public did nothing much to prevent it mainly because 
they were conned into believing that someday the "magic guy in the sky 
might smile on them and make them wealthy too."  Such delusions.  Even 
Hillary Clinton spoke to this the other (in case you missed it as the 
MSM seemed to have swept it under the rug):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxOaBjPf9P8

The fact that the economy is screwed and no amount of "bandages" will 
restore it is just reality.  It will go through its "tamo-guna" and then 
a new economy will arise.  The only way that may not happen is if there 
is no humanity left to erect that economy.  Some think that as with WWII 
which shifted the focus away from the economy a new world war will 
emerge to do the same.  We sure see some war drums beating around Iran, 
North Korea, Pakistan, etc.  But now we have nukes so such a war could 
annihilate all living things on earth.  Thing is back in the the 1930 we 
didn't have anything like the Internet where attempts to start such a 
war can be exposed.  No wonder governments are rumbling about too much 
freedom  on the Internet.  Sorry folks, the Internet is fine as it is.  
Well maybe faster and more bandwidth would be better. ;-)
> My recent trip back to the US reinforced my belief
> that something is wrong with *it* as a country and
> as a psychic environment. It's as if much of the
> population has been trained to forget the joys of
> life and focus on its problems. It's become a nation
> of drama queens.
>   

That's because all this is finally hitting home.  But I notice a lot of 
people keep it hidden.  As long as they can watch their ball games and 
talent shows they seem to be happy.  As long as the bank doesn't cancel 
their credit cards, they're happy.   They've been too apathetic.  They 
should have made "the government more afraid of the people rather than 
the people afraid of it's government."

The beauty of this is that we're alive to watch the drama unfold. ;-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy

[ditzyklanmail]

Hear Hear!






From: Mike Dixon 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 30 May, 2010 9:07:52 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy

  
Good for them !! Nothing like being saddled with other people's debts 
and being their *slaves* to make you worry about your own future. It's about 
time a new generation return to living according to *natural law* i.e. 
evolution,  survival of the fittest, allowing the cream to rise to the top, 
freedom! Of course this leads to so much prosperity that once again, the next 
generation will have too much free time and again begin to ponder if they can 
organize life better than nature. Kudos to the*me generation*, God bless you!




 From: do.rflex 
To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 9:22:36 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy

  


Today's College Students Lack Empathy
By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor
posted: 28 May 2010 08:05 am ET
 Live Science - College students today are less likely to "get" the 
emotions of others than their counterparts 20 and 30 years ago, a new review 
study suggests.  
Specifically, today's students scored 40 percent lower on a measure of empathy 
than their elders did. The findings are based on a review of 72 studies of 
14,000 American college students overall conducted between 1979 and 2009.

"We found the biggest drop in empathy after the year 2000," said Sara Konrath, 
a researcher at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research.  
The study was presented this week at the annual meeting of the Association for 
Psychological Science in Boston. 
Is "generation me" all about me? 
Compared with college students of the late 1970s, current students are less 
likely to agree with statements such as "I sometimes try to understand my 
friends better by imagining how things look from their perspective, " and "I 
often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me." 
"Many people see the current group of college students – sometimes called 
'Generation Me' – as one of the most self-centered, narcissistic, competitive, 
confident and individualistic in recent history," said Konrath, who is also 
affiliated with the University of Rochester Department of Psychiatry. 
Konrath's colleague graduate student Edward O'Brien added, "It's not surprising 
that this growing emphasis on the self is accompanied by a corresponding 
devaluation of others." 
Other recent studies have shown mixed results on the character of today's 
youth. For instance, one study of more than 450,000 high-school seniors born at 
different time periods showed today's youth are no more self-centered than 
their parents were at their age.  
The role of media 
Even so, Konrath and O'Brien suggest several reasons for the lower empathy they 
found, including the ever-increasing exposure to media in the current 
generation. 
"Compared to 30 years ago, the average American now is exposed to three times 
as much nonwork-related information, " Konrath said. "In terms of media 
content, this generation of college students grew up with video games, and a 
growing body of research, including work done by my colleagues at Michigan, is 
establishing that exposure to violent media numbs people to the pain of 
others." 
The rise in social media could also play a role. 
"The ease of having 'friends' online might make people more likely to just tune 
out when they don't feel like responding to others' problems, a behavior that 
could carry over offline," O'Brien said. 
In fact, past research has suggested college students are addicted to social 
media. 
Other possible causes include a society today that's hypercompetitive and 
focused on success, as well as the fast-paced nature of today, in which people 
are less likely than in time periods past to slow down to really listen to 
others, O'Brien added. 
"College students today may be so busy worrying about themselves and their own 
issues that they don't have time to spend empathizing with others, or at least 
perceive such time to be limited," O'Brien said. 
You can find out your empathy score and how it compares with today's college 
students by taking the empathy quiz. 

http://www.livescie nce.com/culture/ empathy-college- students- generation- 
me-100528. html




 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[ditzyklanmail]

Psychiatric assistance is not always the answer. Some of the drugs that are 
prescribed have warnings of suicidal thoughts and tendencies as mentioned on 
the mayo clinic web page and from experience of watching a friend who had 
suicidal attempts this week, without having been brought up with a family of 
followers, doctrine, belief, following, some of these psychiatric drugs 
prescribed are the cause of some behavior that could lead to suicide. 






From: Vaj 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 30 May, 2010 8:35:22 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia  &  Fairfield

  


On May 30, 2010, at 8:26 AM, Buck wrote:


>
>> 
>> >
>> > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
>> > life this last week.
>> > 
>> > http://preview. tinyurl.com/ 34a3rnz
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> From the end of the earth I call;
>> My heart is faint.
>> -Psalm 61:13
>> 
>> " `Tristitia' seems to be a sadness caused
>> by adversity and trial in social life.
>> It comes from lack of peace with others.
>
>`Acedia' is rather the sadness, the 
>> disgust with life, which comes from a much
>> deeper source –our inability to get along with ourselves,
>> and our disunion with God."
>> -Thomas Merton
>>
>
>FW;
>"I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. this is 
>what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the last 2 
>months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was thinking of 
>killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention may 
>have helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't 
>know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are beyond 
>human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher and he had no one." 
> 


You mean the FF enlightened sage support group didn't help? No surprise there!

My condolences to his family. What a sad outcome, for a situation that sounds 
like it could have been prevented. Claiming ultimate openness to all things and 
then having someone die because of reticence for psychiatric assistance is 
truly unenlightened.

I wonder if this is the same Swartz who used to be on the Wednesday Night SS 
list?
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Today's students have less empathy

[Bhairitu]

This was progressively developed over the last century.  Here's part one 
of a four part BBC documentary that I've recommended many times here 
called "The Century of the Self":
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614

The public has been manipulated to be the "Me" society.  And Mike should 
be pleased know that another study shows these students aren't really 
interested in any career climbing and say they'll be perfectly happy to 
be poorer and have more free time than working their asses off. ;-)


WillyTex wrote:
> The 'Me Generation' describes anyone born in the 
> 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s -- this means people between 
> the ages of 7 and 36. Apparently most of the 
> informants on FFL are 'Baby Boomers' or were born 
> during the 'Silent Generation' - 1925 to 1945. From 
> what I can tell, there are no 'Generation Xers' on 
> this list.
>
> Mike:
>   
>> Good for them!! 
>>
>> 
>>> Today's College Students Lack Empathy
>>> By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor
>>>
>>>   
>
>
>
>   

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

> This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
> We are failing our young people.

Along those lines, Rick, did anyone in  your 
group ever suggest, either to the group or
privately to you--that Daniel might be going
through something a bit more than ordinary
and perhaps some intervention was needed?
Or was it, as I suspect, more of the same-old
"enlightenment" garbage?

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[WillyTex]

> > ...how responsible are Rick and Thom 
> > themselves with this young man for 
> > this outcome?
> >
Vaj:
> Hopefully this will be a "wake up" call 
> of a different kind for these groups that 
> pretend to dispense wisdom, but instead 
> delve in an area where they really have 
> little expertise.
>
You scored some good points with this one!

> IME the "dark night" is widely valued and 
> promoted by this (and other FF) groups. 
> However it was never clear if the people 
> who had 'passed thru their dark night of 
> the soul' (and then promoted such experiences 
> as valuable for "enlightenment"/"awakening") 
> were just people just happened to survive a 
> particularly bad bout of depression and were 
> parsing their recovery from that depression 
> as "special" or if they were truly in some 
> more integrated state of consciousness. In 
> any event, such state-chasing support groups 
> are potential disasters just waiting to 
> happen. Couple that with the general TM 
> Org-based fear that psychiatric medication 
> will dampen or prevent the unfolding of 
> "higher states of consciousness" and you 
> have a recipe for all kinds of things.
> 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Vaj]

On May 30, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Buck wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply. People keep referring to his pain, saying they didn't 
> > realize how intense it was. I wonder what the pain is they are referring to.
> > 
> > Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide in the 
> > perspective that he was "needed elsewhere". I don't know if I buy that.
> > 
> > Sounds like there was depression
> >
> 
> No kidding there. Spiritual degression. Were none of those people at those 
> meetings 'manditory reporters'? & long in their hands evidently, how 
> responsible are Rick and Thom themselves with this young man for this outcome?


IME the "dark night" is widely valued and promoted by this (and other FF) 
groups. However it was never clear if the people who had 'passed thru their 
dark night of the soul' (and then promoted such experiences as valuable for 
"enlightenment"/"awakening") were just people just happened to survive a 
particularly bad bout of depression and were parsing their recovery from that 
depression as "special" or if they were truly in some more integrated state of 
consciousness. In any event, such state-chasing support groups are potential 
disasters just waiting to happen. Couple that with the general TM Org-based 
fear that psychiatric medication will dampen or prevent the unfolding of 
"higher states of consciousness" and you have a recipe for all kinds of things.

Hopefully this will be a "wake up" call of a different kind for these groups 
that pretend to dispense wisdom, but instead delve in an area where they really 
have little expertise.

[FairfieldLife] Raj in Australia

[nablusoss1008]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_4BqoTnOrg&feature=channel

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Sal Sunshine]

On May 30, 2010, at 8:09 AM, seventhray1 wrote:

> I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing was 
> posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his parents, or at least 
> who they are.  I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, so if 
> someone could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.
> 
> Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts 
> seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.
> 
> Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
> 
> It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any 
> insight, that also would be appreciated.

This is at least the third in 1.5 years here.
We are failing our young people.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Today's students have less empathy

[WillyTex]

The 'Me Generation' describes anyone born in the 
1970s, 1980s, or 1990s -- this means people between 
the ages of 7 and 36. Apparently most of the 
informants on FFL are 'Baby Boomers' or were born 
during the 'Silent Generation' - 1925 to 1945. From 
what I can tell, there are no 'Generation Xers' on 
this list.

Mike:
> Good for them!! 
>
> > Today's College Students Lack Empathy
> > By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor
> > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  People keep referring to his pain, saying they didn't 
> realize how intense it was.  I wonder what the pain is they are referring to.
> 
> Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide in the 
> perspective that he was "needed elsewhere".  I don't know if I buy that.
> 
> Sounds like there was depression
>

No kidding there.  Spiritual degression.  Were none of those people at those 
meetings 'manditory reporters'?  & long in their hands evidently, how 
responsible are Rick and Thom themselves with this young man for this outcome?

 
> -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to grasp this, trying to get this to gel, but even these few 
> > words here have me bawling.  I never knew Dan personally, but I spent a 
> > couple hundred hours writing to him, and that part of me cannot but weep 
> > and my breath right now is coming in heaves.  Rick asked me to pick some of 
> > Dan's words for the memorial.  If somehow I can manage to do this, I'll 
> > share here.
> > 
> > Edg
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing 
> > > was posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his parents, or at 
> > > least who they are.  I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, 
> > > so if someone could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.
> > > 
> > > Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts 
> > > seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.
> > > 
> > > Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
> > > 
> > > It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any 
> > > insight, that also would be appreciated.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to 
> > > > his life this last week.
> > > > 
> > > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  People keep referring to his pain, saying 
> they didn't realize how intense it was.  I wonder what the pain 
> is they are referring to.
> 
> Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide 
> in the perspective that he was "needed elsewhere". I don't know 
> if I buy that.
> 
> Sounds like there was depression

Can you begin to imagine the stuff that got tossed 
around the world of Frederick Lenz - Rama students
when *he* decided to take his midnight swim?

I mean, for many of the people who were still on 
the bus at that point, this was not just a guy who
talked about his experiences at the local satsang
group, but a guy who promoted himself as one of the
only 12 fully enlightened beings on the planet. 

And what does he do? He downs a shitload of pills 
and booze, attempts to take one of his students 
*with* him, and then stumbles off the end of a pier
into Long Island Sound, therein to become crab food. 

Not really the way you want the people you have 
invested decades in believing were enlightened to
exit, stage left.

But what a KOAN this proposes for the serious seeker:
"What is the sound of one spiritual teacher doing
himself in?"

Puts ya through some changes to ponder this koan, 
lemme tell ya. 

Cognitive Dissonance Central. One of those "What do
I really believe?" moments. Whether 'tis nobler to
continue to believe in this person's enlightenment
and the perfection of everything he ever did or said, 
or whether 'tis nobler to write the guy off as a 
charlatan, and a suicidal one at that? Or somewhere 
in between.

I've landed "somewhere in between." With regard to 
Rama, I have learned over time to discriminate between
the things he said that I still feel are Onto Something
and the ones that in my opinion were just manifestations 
of his own samskaras. 

The issue nailed in the quote Buck posted is an inter-
esting one to ponder in my opinion. If you've "outed"
yourself as enlightened, and thus associated yourself
with many of the *myths* about enlightenment I've been
talking about recently, WHO DO YOU TALK TO if 
you start to find that those myths don't seem to be
working out as advertised? Like the myth about how 
perfect and happy and realized you are 24/7. What
happens if you start to realize that you're *not* 
all that perfect, and not even all that happy? Who 
do you TALK to about that?

Go to a shrink? In Rama's case he was a nationally-
known spiritual teacher or charlatan, depending on 
whether you believed his students or Dateline. He 
couldn't even do *that* without being outed. Daniel?
I don't know him, but I can only imagine that having
positioned himself as a somewhat big fish in the
small pond of Fairfield, there were similarly not
many places he felt he could go to find someone 
to talk to.

I wrote in an earlier post this week, before this 
all happened, that Rama was in my opinion a victim
of his own self-created myth. He took his own life
because IMO he could no longer live with the 
discrepancy between his myth and his reality.

Why can't we just drop the myths and the havoc
they create and go for the reality?

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[WillyTex]

> So, you got kicked off the course for not
> following the rules...
>
Joe:
> It was literally in the middle of the night 
> and it wasn't only ice cream I was eating...
>
You paid over $5,000 and spent six months in
Switzerland so you could eat some ice cream?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Separating the myth of enlightenment from the reality

[WillyTex]

> > The Ramana Maharshi used to advise seekers to 
> > meditate and ask themselves 'Who am I'? Suzuki 
> > Roshi once said that all you have to do is 
> > 'just sit' - this just sitting and being aware 
> > IS the enlightened state. It's that simple.
> >
Bhairitu:
> In some cases I often wonder if some TM'ers see 
> the enlightenment carrot so out of reach they'll 
> never get there in this lifetime yet all they 
> may need is for someone to tap them on the 
> shoulder and point out they may already be there.  
> Sometimes enlightenment happens so slowly we're 
> like the proverbial frog boiling in water. We 
> just don't realize we're there because we take it 
> for granted.
>
The amount of enlightenment you experience is 
directly proportionate to the amount of suffering 
you experience. You are only going to get as much 
enlightenment as you are going to get. No amount 
of striving is going to bring you any closer to 
the enlightened state. 

Meditation isn't the cause of enlightenment - 
meditation simply provides the ideal opportunity 
for the transcending. 

"The way into bliss is the way out of suffering."


> I maintain that it is important for the third 
> eye to be open for enlightenment.  Once open 
> you're there and it is difficult for it to close 
> again.  
> 
> Both people you mentioned above come from eastern 
> cultures.  It likely their family line may have 
> practiced meditation techniques that led them to 
> be born with a cultured nervous that supports 
> enlightenment more easily than most.  Then we have 
> the reincarnation variable which, if you believe 
> in it, may also contribute as we don't know how 
> many lifetimes it took for them to be able to 
> just experience an enlightened state doing next 
> to nothing.
> 
> Many of us got results with mantras out of books.  
> Some even had kundalini experiences from those 
> experiments.  Some had an immediate experience of 
> transcendence when initiated into TM while others 
> felt not much of anything.  So there is a variable 
> there to take into account.
> 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Euro-vision

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor"  wrote:
>
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> > >
> > > Sounds like a Euro version of "American Idol" 
> >
> No really. each country determines their entry. In all the
> years it has run, it has had, in my view, ONE good song,
> namely Abba's Waterloo. The rest has been mindless crap,
> with neighbours voting for eachother.
> 

What!? One of the greatest singers of our times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKROlkXk2_8

(*The* greatest singer of the known universe, of course,
is Maria Callas, but that's a whole another story...)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy

[Mike Dixon]

Good for them!! Nothing like being saddled with other people's debts 
and being their *slaves* to make you worry about your own future. It's about 
time a new generation return to living according to *natural law* 
i.e. evolution,  survival of the fittest, allowing the cream to rise to the 
top, freedom! Of course this leads to so much prosperity that once again, the 
next generation will have too much free time and again begin to ponder if they 
can organize life better than nature. Kudos to the*me generation*, God bless 
you!




From: do.rflex 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2010 9:22:36 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Study: Today's students have less empathy

  


Today's College Students Lack Empathy
By Jeanna Bryner, LiveScience Managing Editor
posted: 28 May 2010 08:05 am ET
     Live Science - College students today are less likely to "get" the 
emotions of others than their counterparts 20 and 30 years ago, a new review 
study suggests. 
Specifically, today's students scored 40 percent lower on a measure of empathy 
than their elders did. The findings are based on a review of 72 studies of 
14,000 American college students overall conducted between 1979 and 2009.

"We found the biggest drop in empathy after the year 2000," said Sara Konrath, 
a researcher at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research. 
The study was presented this week at the annual meeting of the Association for 
Psychological Science in Boston. 
Is "generation me" all about me? 
Compared with college students of the late 1970s, current students are less 
likely to agree with statements such as "I sometimes try to understand my 
friends better by imagining how things look from their perspective, " and "I 
often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me." 
"Many people see the current group of college students – sometimes called 
'Generation Me' – as one of the most self-centered, narcissistic, competitive, 
confident and individualistic in recent history," said Konrath, who is also 
affiliated with the University of Rochester Department of Psychiatry. 
Konrath's colleague graduate student Edward O'Brien added, "It's not surprising 
that this growing emphasis on the self is accompanied by a corresponding 
devaluation of others." 
Other recent studies have shown mixed results on the character of today's 
youth. For instance, one study of more than 450,000 high-school seniors born at 
different time periods showed today's youth are no more self-centered than 
their parents were at their age.  
The role of media 
Even so, Konrath and O'Brien suggest several reasons for the lower empathy they 
found, including the ever-increasing exposure to media in the current 
generation. 
"Compared to 30 years ago, the average American now is exposed to three times 
as much nonwork-related information, " Konrath said. "In terms of media 
content, this generation of college students grew up with video games, and a 
growing body of research, including work done by my colleagues at Michigan, is 
establishing that exposure to violent media numbs people to the pain of 
others." 
The rise in social media could also play a role. 
"The ease of having 'friends' online might make people more likely to just tune 
out when they don't feel like responding to others' problems, a behavior that 
could carry over offline," O'Brien said. 
In fact, past research has suggested college students are addicted to social 
media. 
Other possible causes include a society today that's hypercompetitive and 
focused on success, as well as the fast-paced nature of today, in which people 
are less likely than in time periods past to slow down to really listen to 
others, O'Brien added. 
"College students today may be so busy worrying about themselves and their own 
issues that they don't have time to spend empathizing with others, or at least 
perceive such time to be limited," O'Brien said. 
You can find out your empathy score and how it compares with today's college 
students by taking the empathy quiz. 

http://www.livescie nce.com/culture/ empathy-college- students- generation- 
me-100528. html






  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

Thanks for the reply.  People keep referring to his pain, saying they didn't 
realize how intense it was.  I wonder what the pain is they are referring to.

Some comments on the other site also attempt to put the suicide in the 
perspective that he was "needed elsewhere".  I don't know if I buy that.

Sounds like there was depression

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung  wrote:
>
> I'm trying to grasp this, trying to get this to gel, but even these few words 
> here have me bawling.  I never knew Dan personally, but I spent a couple 
> hundred hours writing to him, and that part of me cannot but weep and my 
> breath right now is coming in heaves.  Rick asked me to pick some of Dan's 
> words for the memorial.  If somehow I can manage to do this, I'll share here.
> 
> Edg
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing 
> > was posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his parents, or at 
> > least who they are.  I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, so 
> > if someone could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts 
> > seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.
> > 
> > Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
> > 
> > It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any 
> > insight, that also would be appreciated.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > >
> > > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> > > life this last week.
> > > 
> > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> > >
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Vaj]

On May 30, 2010, at 8:26 AM, Buck wrote:

> 
> 
> > 
> > >
> > > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> > > life this last week.
> > > 
> > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > From the end of the earth I call;
> > My heart is faint.
> > -Psalm 61:13
> > 
> > " `Tristitia' seems to be a sadness caused
> > by adversity and trial in social life.
> > It comes from lack of peace with others.
> 
> `Acedia' is rather the sadness, the 
> > disgust with life, which comes from a much
> > deeper source –our inability to get along with ourselves,
> > and our disunion with God."
> > -Thomas Merton
> >
> 
> FW;
> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. this 
> is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the last 2 
> months he told so many people his pain was too great and he was thinking of 
> killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention 
> may have helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I 
> don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are 
> beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher and he had no 
> one."  


You mean the FF enlightened sage support group didn't help? No surprise there!

My condolences to his family. What a sad outcome, for a situation that sounds 
like it could have been prevented. Claiming ultimate openness to all things and 
then having someone die because of reticence for psychiatric assistance is 
truly unenlightened.

I wonder if this is the same Swartz who used to be on the Wednesday Night SS 
list?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Duveyoung]

I'm trying to grasp this, trying to get this to gel, but even these few words 
here have me bawling.  I never knew Dan personally, but I spent a couple 
hundred hours writing to him, and that part of me cannot but weep and my breath 
right now is coming in heaves.  Rick asked me to pick some of Dan's words for 
the memorial.  If somehow I can manage to do this, I'll share here.

Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing was 
> posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his parents, or at least 
> who they are.  I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, so if 
> someone could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.
> 
> Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts 
> seemed to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.
> 
> Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 
> 
> It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any 
> insight, that also would be appreciated.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> > life this last week.
> > 
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley"  
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > >
> > > "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some 
> > > others. this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. 
> > > Had I known the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was 
> > > too great and he was thinking of killing himself I would have 
> > > intervened strongly in some way. intervention may have helped but 
> > > at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't know 
> > > how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are 
> > > beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher 
> > > and he had no one." 
> > 
> > Buck, not to be intrusive but to understand, could you
> > explain a little about this "advaita group" and Daniel's
> > relationship to it? I don't know him, and I don't know
> > any of the circumstances surrounding this, so it's a 
> > little difficult to follow things like the above. Thanks
> > in advance.
> 
> I think he's referring to the BATGAP crowd that gathers at Tom Traynor's 
> place every week.
>

Yep it is Rick Archer and Thom Traynor's experience group that this person was 
commenting about.  Apparently Daniel was a devoted attender for some while and 
was looked towards as a leader within the group because of his seeming elevated 
experiences and perspective.

There is a lot of greiving and much discussion going on in Fairfield internally 
right now.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:

> FW;
> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others.
this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known
the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was too great and he
was thinking of killing himself I would have intervened strongly in some
way. intervention may have helped but at the same time. a person has to
be receptive and I don't know how receptive Daniel was. that advaita
group all think they are beyond human help and looked to him as the
mentor and teacher and he had no one." 
>

This is awfully crptic.  Could you possibly fill it in a little.

[FairfieldLife] I thought this was kinda funny news on bbc...

[ditzyklanmail]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6161691.stm

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[seventhray1]

I have been following a thread at Buddha at the Gas Pump, but as nothing was 
posted here, I didn't want to comment.  I do know his parents, or at least who 
they are.  I did not want to register at the Fairfield Ledger, so if someone 
could post the full obituary, it would be appreciated.

Daniel seemed to post on Buddha at the Park periodically, and his posts seemed 
to be full of descriptions of higher consciosness type things.

Can you tell me what happened, and how old he was? 

It looked like he interacted some with Edg, so if Edg cared to offer any 
insight, that also would be appreciated.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> life this last week.
> 
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some 
> > others. this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. 
> > Had I known the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was 
> > too great and he was thinking of killing himself I would have 
> > intervened strongly in some way. intervention may have helped but 
> > at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't know 
> > how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are 
> > beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher 
> > and he had no one." 
> 
> Buck, not to be intrusive but to understand, could you
> explain a little about this "advaita group" and Daniel's
> relationship to it? I don't know him, and I don't know
> any of the circumstances surrounding this, so it's a 
> little difficult to follow things like the above. Thanks
> in advance.

I think he's referring to the BATGAP crowd that gathers at Tom Traynor's place 
every week.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> "I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some 
> others. this is what my perception was knowing what was going on. 
> Had I known the last 2 months he told so many people his pain was 
> too great and he was thinking of killing himself I would have 
> intervened strongly in some way. intervention may have helped but 
> at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't know 
> how receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are 
> beyond human help and looked to him as the mentor and teacher 
> and he had no one." 

Buck, not to be intrusive but to understand, could you
explain a little about this "advaita group" and Daniel's
relationship to it? I don't know him, and I don't know
any of the circumstances surrounding this, so it's a 
little difficult to follow things like the above. Thanks
in advance.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[raunchydog]

Rest in peace, dearest Daniel. I am so sad for your family. God bless.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> > life this last week.
> > 
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> >
> 
> 
> From the end of the earth I call;
> My heart is faint.
>  -Psalm 61:13
> 
> " `Tristitia' seems to be a sadness caused
> by adversity and trial in social life.
> It comes from lack of peace with others.
> `Acedia' is rather the sadness, the 
> disgust with life, which comes from a much
> deeper source –our inability to get along with ourselves,
> and our disunion with God."
>   -Thomas Merton
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

> 
> >
> > In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> > life this last week.
> > 
> > http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
> >
> 
> 
> From the end of the earth I call;
> My heart is faint.
>  -Psalm 61:13
> 
> " `Tristitia' seems to be a sadness caused
> by adversity and trial in social life.
> It comes from lack of peace with others.

 `Acedia' is rather the sadness, the 
> disgust with life, which comes from a much
> deeper source –our inability to get along with ourselves,
> and our disunion with God."
>   -Thomas Merton
>

FW;
"I knew Daniel well and have a little different take than some others. this is 
what my perception was knowing what was going on. Had I known the last 2 months 
he told so many people his pain was too great and he was thinking of killing 
himself I would have intervened strongly in some way. intervention may have 
helped but at the same time. a person has to be receptive and I don't know how 
receptive Daniel was. that advaita group all think they are beyond human help 
and looked to him as the mentor and teacher and he had no one."  

[FairfieldLife] Autonomy, Mastery and Purpose

[TurquoiseB]

I went back today and re-watched the RSAnimate video I
thought was so brilliant when I first saw it, and found
it even more so on a second viewing. If you haven't seen
it, you won't be able to follow this rap, so I repost
the link below. If you have no *desire* to follow this
rap, this would be a good place to click Next instead
of this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

In this second viewing, I found myself (as is my wont)
relating my impressions of its insights on What Motivates
Us to recent posts here on FFL, and some of the things
we have been collectively fascinated with. Call me crazy,
but I think that there is a connection. 

Take Buck, with his impassioned and I'm sure passionately-
felt raps about what's wrong with the TMO, and how it 
could/should change to redress those wrongs. Take the 
issue of how to present the concept of enlightenment in
a realistic way, one that motivates people to pursue it
for its real-life coolness, not only its mythical coolness.
Take the issue of spiritual teaching itself, and how best
-- if you have taken upon yourself the hubris-heavy burden
of wanting to share with others some of the things you 
have found spiritually valuable in life -- to present what
you have learned in ways in which it motivates, not 
de-motivates. 

I'm thinkin' this morning in this beachside cafe that the
three issues pinned down in this video as key to motivating
people in a business setting are relevant to how to motivate
them in a spiritual setting.

Those three issues are Autonomy, Mastery and Purpose. The
video makes a compelling case for their value and their actual
bottom-line value in a business setting. One of the strongest
such cases is made by including the story of Linux, which is
a product created entirely by people *who have other jobs*,
but who *work for free* 20 to 30 additional hours per week
to invent and improve an operating system that they then
*give away for free*. Linux now powers one out of every four
corporate servers. 

WHY do people do this, in a business environment? Autonomy, 
Mastery and Purpose. Watch the video.

WHY can't the "spiritual environment" get the stick out of
its collective-consciousness butt and realize the same thing?

How do you motivate someone spiritually? Well, in my not-so-
humble opinion a good place to start might be by creating
a "spiritual environment" that nurtures Autonomy, Mastery
and Purpose instead of suppressing them.

I'm sorry, but as a newbie spiritual aspirant or a long-term
one, you just don't feel fuckin' Autonomous if you're in an
environment in which every single moment is mapped out for
you, and from whose Grand Plan you must not deviate, on peril
of expulsion. Like a TMO residence course. Can you say, "Duh?"
I think you can.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think Mastery is terribly supported
by an environment in which every small achievement you make
towards the goalposts is met by moving those goalposts further
away. 

And I'm sorry, but I don't think an overriding sense of Purpose
is achieved by forcing those who identify with that Purpose
to lie to themselves about the nature of the world around them
to continue pursuing that Purpose.

None of these three motivators are IMO antithetical to the
TM movement. ALL could be introduced into the TM environment
today.

Stop running the TM movement like it was a Nanny and its 
members naughty children. Start giving them some fuckin' 
RESPECT and Autonomy, the right to make their own decisions 
about things.

Stop reserving the idea of Mastery for enlightenment and 
above. Start allowing people to feel good about their 
*daily lives* and their everyday achievements, without 
trying to make them feel bad because they haven't achieved 
the "highest goal."

Stop equating Purpose with *your* Purpose, which does not
seem to match your Stated Purpose. That is, if as a spiritual
organization your Stated Purpose is to save the world, and you
believe that achieving a certain number of Yogic Flyers would
do that, PAY FOR IT YOURSELVES. You *have* the money. 
To do otherwise is to declare in no uncertain terms that your 
Stated Purpose is not your Real Purpose, and no one is going
to be able to continue to identify with that Faux Purpose
over time.

Autonomy, Mastery and Purpose. Me, I'm gonna grow and flourish
in an environment -- business or spiritual -- that allows me
to experience those things. I'm not going to stick around in
an environment that not only does not nurture these things,
but actively seeks to suppress them. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Euro-vision

[uns_tressor]

>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like a Euro version of "American Idol" 
>
No really. each country determines their entry. In all the
years it has run, it has had, in my view, ONE good song,
namely Abba's Waterloo. The rest has been mindless crap,
with neighbours voting for eachother.

Any country can put foreward any singer. Since the US is years
ahead of any other country in songwriting and song performing,
you folks need to get it together as a stunt.

I suggest that someone approaches Mike Love to re-write
"California girls" as "Macedonia girls", perform it as
the Beach Boys, and enter it either as the Macedonian entry
(I'm sure they'd have it) or maybe the UK entry. It would get
the votes of all the Balkan states and most of the other
countries, and 1% of the revenues can go to MIU.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

>
> In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his 
> life this last week.
> 
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz
>


>From the end of the earth I call;
My heart is faint.
 -Psalm 61:13

" `Tristitia' seems to be a sadness caused
by adversity and trial in social life.
It comes from lack of peace with others.
`Acedia' is rather the sadness, the 
disgust with life, which comes from a much
deeper source –our inability to get along with ourselves,
and our disunion with God."
  -Thomas Merton

[FairfieldLife] Acedia & Fairfield

[Buck]

In the news, a young person of the meditating community put an end to his life 
this last week.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/34a3rnz

[FairfieldLife] Re: When did FUN become Off The Program?

[TurquoiseB]

I replied to this earlier, but it's never turned up,
so either the WiFi was on the fritz in the cafe I was
sitting in, or Yahoo is on the rag again. Either way,
I'm reposting it, because I think it's an interesting
subject.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> > >
> > > ... sometimes, I pause and look at the faces 
> > > of people walking by and it nearly makes me weep. If  
> > > it exists, this is truly Kali Yuga.
> > 
> > What is it you see in their faces that makes you weep?
> 
> I live near New York City, and the faces in this area are 
> so often filled with anxiety or bone weary fatigue.  I feel 
> sad not because they are not doing anything to help humanity, 
> but because so many humans seem to be having a rough time of 
> it, and really suffering, whether from anxiety or hunger or 
> illness. Don't get me wrong, basically I am an optimist by 
> nature. But when I look closely, life sure does seem tough.

I must say that this thread and this agreement 
with its content surprises me somewhat, because 
when I look around on the streets of Spain, I don't 
see what is being described. Some of it may be "What 
you focus on you become," but a larger part may be 
the difference between Europe and the United States.

My recent trip back to the US reinforced my belief
that something is wrong with *it* as a country and
as a psychic environment. It's as if much of the
population has been trained to forget the joys of
life and focus on its problems. It's become a nation
of drama queens.

I honestly do not see that here. Spain is one of the
hardest-hit countries in Europe economically, but I
don't see people walking around all mopey and 
depressed about it. I see them instead finding 
opportunities to enjoy their lives wherever they
can find them, and in ways they can still afford.
I do *not* see the imminent signs of "Kali Yuga"
that you guys are talking about.

I would imagine that if I were living in a war 
zone my experience would be different. What I'm 
suggesting is that you guys live in one -- at
least psychically -- but don't seem to be aware 
of it. The main reason I moved to Europe some
seven+ years ago was to get out of the psychic
aura of the United States, which I considered
poisonous. I have seen little since that makes
me reconsider that.

I really don't have any theories as to WHY this
difference between the environments seems to be
true, only that it does. Here I have seen great
joy and love of life in the midst of poverty;
there I tend to see great sorrow and drama 
queen hysterics in the midst of abundance. 
Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Euro-vision

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> Sounds like a Euro version of "Amerian Idol" except you 
> suggest it has been going on longer than AI but then 
> broadcast talent shows have been around since the days 
> of radio.

I have never seen American Idol and thus can't say
for sure, but what I suspect makes this so different
(besides preceding it for decades) is the inter-
national thang. It's very nationalistic, with the
performers identified by their countries more than
by name. The voting is by country, with no country
being able to vote for its own performer (for 
obvious reasons). Some of it is so predictable 
that my friends told me before it started that
"Cyprus will always vote for Greece, and Greece
will always vote for Cyprus," and it turned out
exactly that way. Altogether, a weird but fun
viewing experience, although I don't think there
was even one performer I'd ever want to see again.

[FairfieldLife] Scorpio Nation 25th in Eurovision Song Contest! :D

[cardemaister]

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=18063&_t=GERMANY+WINS%2C+SEE+FULL+RESULTS!

http://tinyurl.com/298srkq