[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go get checked. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do you think?
[FairfieldLife] Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
That's one of the questions posed by this excellent article from Salon.com. Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates visions of God Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates vision... Major figures like Joan of Arc and Dostoyevsky claimed supernatural visions. Why their brains could hold the answer View on www.salon.com Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go get checked. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. From: jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
A checking will take care of it, agnostic or not. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go get checked. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. Thanks for your balanced contributions to this...uh...unbalanced rap by JohnR, Lawson. One of the things I find most fascinating about his button-pushed spiritual bigotry is the assumption that atheists sit around thinking about the non-existence of God all the time. As Sam Harris has pointed out, that's as nonsensical as believing that most people sit around thinking about the non-existence of the Still-Living Elvis. One does not ponder or hold onto that which does not exist; one just ignores it and focuses it on things that *do* exist. Like spiritual bigots. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who
[FairfieldLife] Easy as pi: Astrophysicist solves riddle of Britain's most complex crop circle
Easy as pi: Astrophysicist solves riddle of Britain's most complex crop circle http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi-Astrophysicist-solves-riddle-Britains-complex-crop-circle.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi-Astrophysicist-solves-riddle-Britains-complex-crop-circle.html Easy as pi: Astrophysicist solves riddle of Britain'... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi-Astrophysicist-solves-riddle-Britains-complex-crop-circle.html An astrophysicist has helped solve the mystery of one of the most complex crop circles ever found - it depicts the most important number in mathematics. Mik... View on www.dailymail.co.uk http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi-Astrophysicist-solves-riddle-Britains-complex-crop-circle.html Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Hmm, I always did wonder where Jesus learned English. Oh, Barry, you tiddlywink. I just want to hang you up by the collar of your little sailor suit and pinch those chubby pink cheeks. (No kidding, folks, Barry's said a lot of unbelievably stupid things here, especially recently. But this takes the cake.) Of course nobody knows what Jesus actually said, much less the definitive interpretation thereof. Nabby and I were talking about what's in the Bible. Just as one can discuss what Hamlet really meant in Shakespeare's play, one can discuss what Jesus really meant according to the writers of the Gospels. As it happens, my interpretation is that of most scholars and translators these days, and I was explaining to Nabby how that interpretation fits the context while Maharishi's doesn't. I think what's got your panties in a twist is the cognitive dissonance you felt when you saw me telling Nabby Maharishi was no Bible scholar and had made a bad mistake with his interpretation. If you have a good case to make for why The Kingdom of God is within you is more likely what Jesus meant in the Gospels than The Kingdom of God is among you, I'm all ears. Nabby would surely be pleased if you were able to support Maharishi's interpretation. We'll wait... Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
Like trying to find a needle in a haystack, with a bulldozer. Oh well, I suppose it at least gets the silly scientists thinking about God. May they stumble on! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : That's one of the questions posed by this excellent article from Salon.com. Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates visions of God http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates vision... Major figures like Joan of Arc and Dostoyevsky claimed supernatural visions. Why their brains could hold the answer View on www.salon.com http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/; class=ygrps-yiv-957161395link-enhancr-card-url ygrps-yiv-957161395link-enhancr-element Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re-in-carnation of whom??
Sugarchile: Frank Sugarchile Robinson - Caldonia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM Frank Sugarchile Robinson - Caldonia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM From movie No Leave No Love 1946 Frank Sugarchile Robinson SUGAR CHILE ROBINSON (By Dave Penny) Born Frank Robinson, 1940, Detroit, Michigan... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcq93txBdtM Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : 1932 was a good year for memorable 78s. Henry Hall released his version of TEDDY BEARS' PICNIC. This children's favourite is a forgettable, bland song in all other versions but Hall's take has to be one of the creepiest and downright sinister records ever. It was the all-time favourite record of author J G Ballard whose output included titles Crash; High Rise; and Concrete Island. Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic (1932) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZANKFxrcKUamp;index=2amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZANKFxrcKUamp;index=2amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZANKFxrcKUamp;index=2amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic (1932) presentation by R 3 T Я 8 T 8 R for the promotion and conservation of the arts and the general... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZANKFxrcKUamp;index=2amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA Preview by Yahoo Thanks for these, I love this stuff. Henry Hall certainly did have a treble-y wobble in that voice of his. My parents would have been about 10 years old at this time. I wonder if they liked this song. Unfortunately I can't ask them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : That's one of the questions posed by this excellent article from Salon.com. Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates visions of God http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates vision... Major figures like Joan of Arc and Dostoyevsky claimed supernatural visions. Why their brains could hold the answer View on www.salon.com http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/; class=ygrps-yiv-97846083link-enhancr-card-url ygrps-yiv-97846083link-enhancr-element Preview by Yahoo Interesting article, it almost makes one want to become epileptic. However, I am not sure what Bawee's point is by posting this. I would think most people realize that as long as most of us remain standing here on this planet our ultimate sensory organ is our brain. Of course our perceptions, be they as mundane as tasting orange juice or as profound as having dinner with Christ himself while floating in some cloud, are governed by the activity of our brains. We sort of had this conversation back when we were all talking about near death experiences here. Just because you can link a cosmic or unusual experience to a brain function doesn't invalidate it. Of course you can correspond certain activity in the brain or release of chemicals to what it is you are experiencing. There will usually always be some relationship between the brain and what it is one is saying, doing, feeling. (I think the guy who wrote Proof of Heaven has since been debunked so his time being brain dead while in his coma discounts his having remained conscious even though his brain was 100% non-functioning.) Unfortunately, the cases cited in this article are all of people who lived before EEG machines and more modern medicine that could have proved, without a doubt, the existence of epilepsy. So what we are left with is conjecture, but interesting nevertheless.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. You're a rude and ignorant fuck-up Bawee. Why don't you just shut up and butt out and let civilized people engage in an intelligent and progressive exchange of ideas. John is one of the more non-reactive and polite posters here. It's great to see him engage on a subject that this forum seems to have been set up investigate - actual exchanges about transcendence and spiritual or deeper life experiences. You are just some snarly old poop who just has to burp in anyone's direction who has an opinion different from your own. Take your shitty attitude somewhere else or go have another beer. Either way, you add nothing of relevance or interest to either this conversation or any subject that extends in depth beyond what you can tell us CBS has for its Fall TV lineup.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
hey turq and Ann, yes, this is a wonderful article, if a bit biased. I like the point at the end that only Joan of Arc could of rallied the French. And it seems that Dostoevsky still could write acclimed novels which probably have enriched the lives of some people. So...regardless of the neurological event and regardless of how it is labeled, such events don't preclude that a person lives a beneficial life. It would be great to study contemporary people like Jill Bolte Taylor, author of My Stroke of Genius. On Monday, May 12, 2014 8:38 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : That's one of the questions posed by this excellent article from Salon.com. Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates visions of God Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates vision... Major figures like Joan of Arc and Dostoyevsky claimed supernatural visions. Why their brains could hold the answer View on www.salon.com Preview by Yahoo Interesting article, it almost makes one want to become epileptic. However, I am not sure what Bawee's point is by posting this. I would think most people realize that as long as most of us remain standing here on this planet our ultimate sensory organ is our brain. Of course our perceptions, be they as mundane as tasting orange juice or as profound as having dinner with Christ himself while floating in some cloud, are governed by the activity of our brains. We sort of had this conversation back when we were all talking about near death experiences here. Just because you can link a cosmic or unusual experience to a brain function doesn't invalidate it. Of course you can correspond certain activity in the brain or release of chemicals to what it is you are experiencing. There will usually always be some relationship between the brain and what it is one is saying, doing, feeling. (I think the guy who wrote Proof of Heaven has since been debunked so his time being brain dead while in his coma discounts his having remained conscious even though his brain was 100% non-functioning.) Unfortunately, the cases cited in this article are all of people who lived before EEG machines and more modern medicine that could have proved, without a doubt, the existence of epilepsy. So what we are left with is conjecture, but interesting nevertheless.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
In that case, everybody in HipHop needs to be fired. On Monday, May 12, 2014 6:15 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : 1932 was a good year for memorable 78s. Henry Hall released his version of TEDDY BEARS' PICNIC. This children's favourite is a forgettable, bland song in all other versions but Hall's take has to be one of the creepiest and downright sinister records ever. It was the all-time favourite record of author J G Ballard whose output included titles Crash; High Rise; and Concrete Island. Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic (1932) Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic... Henry Hall His Orchestra - The Teddy Bear's Picnic (1932) presentation by R 3 T Я 8 T 8 R for the promotion and conservation of the arts and the general... View on www.youtube.comPreview by Yahoo Thanks for these, I love this stuff. Henry Hall certainly did have a treble-y wobble in that voice of his. My parents would have been about 10 years old at this time. I wonder if they liked this song. Unfortunately I can't ask them.
[FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview
Dear Rick; your thesis and take-away? What was your thesis last nite in your own live interview down at the FF public library? With Way too many spiritual things going on in FF at any given time, for those of us who were at other satsanga or doing spiritual things elsewhere, what came to be your thesis in the interview during your meeting as it evolved? Did you feel that you may have had to color what you said, because it was sponsored by the Waking Down satsanga or the TM organization might have been there? Just wondering, -Buck “Because of his exposure to the wide range of awakening modalities and spiritual teachings alive in the world today, Rick is uniquely situated to comment on what is going on out there. It promises to be a rich evening.” -From the public meeting announcement in the Fairfield Weekly Reader Rick as you are proly experiencing in these interviews, becoming a guru in culture can be different than abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat- gurus it would seems would be good at combinations of all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of his spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
thanks, Lawson, for all your great info about the TM research, etc. I agree with your ideas about obsession and worry. I also think it's a funny but wonderful paradox that as more transcendence is established in awareness, one thinks about all this so called spiritual stuff way less! Unless to do so is fun. As it is in the Funny Farm Lounge (-: On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:54 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Even someone like me with genuine, diagnosed-by-a-doctor OCD, can transcend just fine. Obsessing about TM is Just Another Obsession and doesn't interfere with the practice any more than any other obsession -it's all just thinking, afterall, and if you can obsess, er, think, you can meditate. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : thanks, Lawson, for all your great info about the TM research, etc. I agree with your ideas about obsession and worry. I also think it's a funny but wonderful paradox that as more transcendence is established in awareness, one thinks about all this so called spiritual stuff way less! Unless to do so is fun. As it is in the Funny Farm Lounge (-: On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:54 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
John, the older I get, the more I realize that it's such a huge universe, big enough for all possibilities, for throwing out all the old rules (-: On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:32 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go get checked. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do you think?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
You know, I missed this part: If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Nowhere did John say anything even remotely to this effect. This vengeful, neurotic God comes straight from Barry's imagination. It's actually Barry who is anxious to impose his notions of God onto John. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. You're a rude and ignorant fuck-up Bawee. Why don't you just shut up and butt out and let civilized people engage in an intelligent and progressive exchange of ideas. John is one of the more non-reactive and polite posters here. It's great to see him engage on a subject that this forum seems to have been set up investigate - actual exchanges about transcendence and spiritual or deeper life experiences. You are just some snarly old poop who just has to burp in anyone's direction who has an opinion different from your own. Take your shitty attitude somewhere else or go have another beer. Either way, you add nothing of relevance or interest to either this conversation or any subject that extends in depth beyond what you can tell us CBS has for its Fall TV lineup.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
(-: Actually I wonder if more thinking is just an indication of more transcending in activity... On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:20 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Even someone like me with genuine, diagnosed-by-a-doctor OCD, can transcend just fine. Obsessing about TM is Just Another Obsession and doesn't interfere with the practice any more than any other obsession -it's all just thinking, afterall, and if you can obsess, er, think, you can meditate. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : thanks, Lawson, for all your great info about the TM research, etc. I agree with your ideas about obsession and worry. I also think it's a funny but wonderful paradox that as more transcendence is established in awareness, one thinks about all this so called spiritual stuff way less! Unless to do so is fun. As it is in the Funny Farm Lounge (-: On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:54 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Transcendence happens when you stop worryinjg about it, period. Atheists and agnostics who don't worry about spiritual things in general, may well be more likely to transcend than believers who DO worry about spiritual things. It is possible that some atheist is obsessing about things which could be detrimental to practice, but that's an issue with obsession in general regardless about WHAT one obsesses about. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : hey turq and Ann, yes, this is a wonderful article, if a bit biased. I like the point at the end that only Joan of Arc could of rallied the French. And it seems that Dostoevsky still could write acclimed novels which probably have enriched the lives of some people. So...regardless of the neurological event and regardless of how it is labeled, such events don't preclude that a person lives a beneficial life. I don't think there was ever any question of how beneficial someones life is or isn't based on whether they have visions based on epilepsy or not. I think what Bawee was doing here was his usual let's-see-if-I-can-push-any-buttons-here shtick. He was posting this to imply that visionaries or those who have had spiritual or revelatory experiences were most likely diseased in some way. I wonder if he was frothing at the mouth and writhing while witnessing Rama levitate. It would be great to study contemporary people like Jill Bolte Taylor, author of My Stroke of Genius. On Monday, May 12, 2014 8:38 AM, awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : That's one of the questions posed by this excellent article from Salon.com. Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates visions of God http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ Heaven is for neuroscience: How the brain creates vision... Major figures like Joan of Arc and Dostoyevsky claimed supernatural visions. Why their brains could hold the answer View on www.salon.com http://www.salon.com/2014/05/11/heaven_is_for_neuroscience_how_the_brain_creates_visions_of_god/ Preview by Yahoo Interesting article, it almost makes one want to become epileptic. However, I am not sure what Bawee's point is by posting this. I would think most people realize that as long as most of us remain standing here on this planet our ultimate sensory organ is our brain. Of course our perceptions, be they as mundane as tasting orange juice or as profound as having dinner with Christ himself while floating in some cloud, are governed by the activity of our brains. We sort of had this conversation back when we were all talking about near death experiences here. Just because you can link a cosmic or unusual experience to a brain function doesn't invalidate it. Of course you can correspond certain activity in the brain or release of chemicals to what it is you are experiencing. There will usually always be some relationship between the brain and what it is one is saying, doing, feeling. (I think the guy who wrote Proof of Heaven has since been debunked so his time being brain dead while in his coma discounts his having remained conscious even though his brain was 100% non-functioning.) Unfortunately, the cases cited in this article are all of people who lived before EEG machines and more modern medicine that could have proved, without a doubt, the existence of epilepsy. So what we are left with is conjecture, but interesting nevertheless.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : hey turq and Ann, yes, this is a wonderful article, if a bit biased. I like the point at the end that only Joan of Arc could of rallied the French. And it seems that Dostoevsky still could write acclimed novels which probably have enriched the lives of some people. So...regardless of the neurological event and regardless of how it is labeled, such events don't preclude that a person lives a beneficial life. I don't think there was ever any question of how beneficial someones life is or isn't based on whether they have visions based on epilepsy or not. I think what Bawee was doing here was his usual let's-see-if-I-can-push-any-buttons-here shtick. If so, what does it say about YOU that you got your buttons pushed yet again? :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More Yahoo Boohoo
Sure makes for a messy looking post count. Marissa must be trying to kill Groups though techies think she's trying to kill Yahoo so her Google stock is worth more. On 05/11/2014 05:33 PM, j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: http://yahoogroups.tumblr.com/post/85163779041/dmarc-related-changes-in-yahoo-groups ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote : Anyone notice that the post count now lists more than just the username? And at least on email I'm also seeing the poster's email address in the From on Thunderbird. This has not always been the case and it was noted on another forum that this began at the end of the week.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview
No time to summarize, but I’ll be posting it on BatGap. You mean there was something going on that was more spiritual than an interview with me? I’m shocked. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:41 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview Dear Rick; your thesis and take-away? What was your thesis last nite in your own live interview down at the FF public library? With Way too many spiritual things going on in FF at any given time, for those of us who were at other satsanga or doing spiritual things elsewhere, what came to be your thesis in the interview during your meeting as it evolved? Did you feel that you may have had to color what you said, because it was sponsored by the Waking Down satsanga or the TM organization might have been there? Just wondering, -Buck “Because of his exposure to the wide range of awakening modalities and spiritual teachings alive in the world today, Rick is uniquely situated to comment on what is going on out there. It promises to be a rich evening.” -From the public meeting announcement in the Fairfield Weekly Reader Rick as you are proly experiencing in these interviews, becoming a guru in culture can be different than abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat- gurus it would seems would be good at combinations of all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of his spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
[FairfieldLife] Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview
This has to be one of the funniest replies ever posted to FFL. Well done, Rick. :-) From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview No time to summarize, but I’ll be posting it on BatGap. You mean there was something going on that was more spiritual than an interview with me? I’m shocked. From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:41 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick, Conderning his own interview Dear Rick;your thesis and take-away? What was your thesis last nite in your own live interview down at the FF public library? With Way too many spiritual things going on in FF at any given time, for those of us who were at other satsanga or doing spiritual things elsewhere, what came to be your thesis in the interview during your meeting as it evolved? Did you feel that you may have had to color what you said, because it was sponsored by the Waking Down satsanga or the TM organization might have been there? Just wondering, -Buck “Because of his exposure to the wide range of awakening modalities and spiritual teachings alive in the world today, Rick is uniquely situated to comment on what is going on out there. It promises to be a rich evening.” -From the public meeting announcement in the Fairfield Weekly Reader Rick as you are proly experiencing in these interviews, becoming a guru in culture can be different than abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat- gurus it would seems would be good at combinations of all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of his spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
[FairfieldLife] Many Paths
There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn't matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. Hindu Proverb
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
Barry just hates it when people laugh at his button-pushing attempts. That's why he snipped this from his quote of Ann's post: He was posting this to imply that visionaries or those who have had spiritual or revelatory experiences were most likely diseased in some way. I wonder if he was frothing at the mouth and writhing while witnessing Rama levitate. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : hey turq and Ann, yes, this is a wonderful article, if a bit biased. I like the point at the end that only Joan of Arc could of rallied the French. And it seems that Dostoevsky still could write acclimed novels which probably have enriched the lives of some people. So...regardless of the neurological event and regardless of how it is labeled, such events don't preclude that a person lives a beneficial life. I don't think there was ever any question of how beneficial someones life is or isn't based on whether they have visions based on epilepsy or not. I think what Bawee was doing here was his usual let's-see-if-I-can-push-any-buttons-here shtick. If so, what does it say about YOU that you got your buttons pushed yet again? :-) :-) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Invincible America Assembly experience report
Ted Clancy has been doing the long meditation program at the Invincible America Assembly in Fairfield. He recently recounted this vividly entertaining report to the others in the Domes. If it resonates with and inspires you, please consider joining our precious IAA! As my seven-year anniversary of being on the IA course nears, I felt compelled to give an overview of my experiences in hopes that it may be of value. Using every trick in the book; every tool in the box, to squeeze every bit of evolutionary potential out of every moment, has yielded a rich harvest of varied and profound experiences. But, I needed to pierce the veil of chhandas and achieve escape velocity, beyond the cloudy atmosphere of collective consciousness, to reach the real, true, genuine and consistent experiences, that could not be denied by the most jaded of intellects, nor could have they been contrived out of some unconscious desire for self-aggrandizement. So, rather than provide a long litany of flashy ephemeral displays of pyrotechnics and eye-candy, I will attempt, given the limitations of language, to comprehensively, yet concisely convey those bench-marks and watershed moments, when a new, more expanded and stable state of being, was achieved. Now, please bear in mind, these occurred over time. But, if I had to describe their overall pattern of development, I would say that I would be going along, day to day, thinking maybe that nothing was happening, but steadily putting my time in. Then there would be a gathering of momentum, an increase in tempo and variety, to crescendo at an event horizon, a transcendental quantum leap, then I would find myself waking up in the realization of a new state of being and style of functioning. This process repeated itself, again and again, over time. A key component I discovered, which significantly changed the whole nature and color of my experiences--having grown up in a society where fatigue is considered a caffeine deficiency--and that is, my friends: rest is king. Silence penetrated, then inundated, until it permeated every particle and fiber of my being; bubbling, percolating and roaring with the deafening impact of a great waterfall disappearing into a calm, clear pool of peace that passes all understanding. Then, over time, within this peace, blossomed a restfully alert state of poise, where I spontaneously found myself, assuming the royal pace of an elephant, while pouncing like a tiger in all directions: I am still as a mountain; flowing like a great river. Then again, over time, within this state of poise, blossomed a power, which passed into my experience without effort or labor. And, I found things steadily coming my way, and coming my way without that awful effort that destroys the peace of mind of the majority of mankind. And, I feel such deep ease, enfolded in the arms of infinite divine love, taking care of me. I experience myself as the center and circumference; the point and the whole. The sutras weaving point-to-whole, and whole-to-point, into an exquisite tapestry of vibrant awareness. The sutras are multi-faceted gems, each of unique character and hue, dropping into the ocean of my being, reverberating out to whole and back again. The returning waves crossing the outgoing waves forming vertices, that become planes of primordial geometry. I do not experience this geometry as static, but as a stable harmonic resonance of divine musical vibration. Yet this geometry also contains a dynamic flowing quality, with a funnel style hole, that goes completely through a sphere that continually flows in, around and on itself. This archetypal geometry, with its dynamic flow, clusters and generates the plethora of forms and phenomena found manifest everywhere in my experience. And, I really have to thank Maharishi for giving me a backstage pass to the universe: a golden ticket to the symphony of creation behind Vishwakarman's magic show. A shift took place in my awareness from experiencing consciousness existing within and a function of my physiology, to my body existing within and as my consciousness; as an individualized, ever changing state of wholeness, moving within my Self. And I found myself able to experientially discriminate the successive states of my own material manifestation: I can see, feel, hear, taste, etc. air, fire, water, earth and even the mineral densities of self. But, even at the greatest depth of density I experience the gold of universal soul; I see the brilliance of indwelling light; I feel the fire of boundless divine love. Yet, this light does not blind, and this fire does not burn, but continually fills me with ever expanding delight. And while I am able to discriminate these individual stages, it remains one stream of awareness; one infinite reverberation. Then, over time, I found myself able to do the same with other individualized aspects of Self, be it person,
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
My understanding has been that witnessing dreams is just that, witnessing them, not trying to change what's happening in them. No? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Another show for Turq to not like
NBC fall series Constantine trailer. Takes demons seriously though so Turq won't like it. :-D http://www.nbc.com/constantine/video/constantine-official-trailer/2781062 Could be okay if the episodes don't become string along just to provide the production crew a paycheck.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Steve S., If you have not already done so, please read MMY's commentary to the Bhagavad Gita. He talks about the transcending process and the difference between the individual self and the cosmic Self. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Okay, how bout, Atheists Can't Transcend. How Being Bounced Me Right Out of The Transcendent. One Man's Personal Journey (okay, okay, I know it's got some problems technically with transcending partially, but it's a start) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I think it could be a great title for a book, Atheists Can't Transcend Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a book in the series along the lines of Transcending for Dummies ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Isn't it in Lukas somewhere it says Seek yea first the kingdom of heaven within.. ? Among turned up in newer translations probably because the within was confusing since they have no idea what that is supposed to be. Also, someone who sought within would be a threat to the Church knowing he would not find a way to it in their teachings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: The complete sentence is, The Kingdom of God is within/among/in the midst of you--you meaning the Pharisees. You can't leave off the you without seriously misrepresenting what Jesus was saying. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Actually, there's major scholarly disagreement with the translation within. Jesus was directly addressing the Pharisees, after all, not making a general statement; and he'd made it crystal clear that he thought they were corrupt inside and out. Just contextually, it's extremely unlikely he was saying the Kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. Most translations other than the KJV have among or in the midst of or similar, referring to the Pharisees' inability to recognize Jesus as the representative of God's Kingdom. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Another show for Turq to not like
The original film of Constantine was interesting, at least visually. I don't expect the TV series to be anything *but* visual, however. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 8:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Another show for Turq to not like NBC fall series Constantine trailer. Takes demons seriously though so Turq won't like it. :-D http://www.nbc.com/constantine/video/constantine-official-trailer/2781062 Could be okay if the episodes don't become string along just to provide the production crew a paycheck.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current My understanding has been that witnessing dreams is just that, witnessing them, not trying to change what's happening in them. No? True, but I think there might be a correlation. People who witness might be more inclined to dream lucidly, due to being more clear in all states. A friend of mine who witnesses sleep clearly and consistently says most of his dreams are lucid. I don’t know if he tries to change things or just dreams more consciously than is ordinarily the case. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , rick@... mailto:rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. Not to mention real Native American traditions and Tibetan Buddhist traditions, in which lucid dreaming is taught as a useful technique for preparing to transit the Bardo between death and rebirth. Methinks Judy doesn't know about any of this because she's never been able to control her dreams. Heck, she can barely control herself in the waking state. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Nabs, MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The ritual is done by burning ghee, mustard seed, coconut and other items within the fire, or Agni, one of the many deities in the Hindu pantheon of gods. In this sense, any of the ancient religions in the Middle East, including the Hebrews, have made similar burnt offerings to their deities and Yahweh, such as lamb and birds. So, with TM, the offering is really the individual thoughts which are burnt by the mantra within the meditators self. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Agreed, the ability to transcend has nothing whatsoever to do with ones beliefs in the waking state but on the mechanical abilities of the nervous-system. But if you are doing TM correctly it is doubtful one can remain an atheist forever. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Funny, I never really associated transcending with religious concepts or with God. I just transcended to a quieter area of my mind. My religious beliefs always remained separate. Sometimes, when meditating, I had what felt like restful alertness, which then translated into what I felt was a better degree of activity. In one instance I noticed a constant of silence when I shifted from sleeping to waking up. Nor am I aware of traditional religions talking much about transcending. But I like much of what else you say here. I mean a lot of it is the 'ol, ultimately, there's nowhere to go, sort of thing. But if you're not there, you really can't relate to it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending useful? All of us who learned TM obviously must have encountered the term. All the word means is 'to go beyond the range or limits of', and if everything, every aspect of experience is really being, then it cannot apply. It is a term useful for the spiritually stunted because it implies there is something more that can be mined from their experience than they currently recognise. Basically the term defines what is not experienced as transcending, but that does not mean that is what is actually happening when a person meditates is he or she is transcending to being. The whole thing is there all the time, like the ocean around a fish, just unnoticed. Transcending is a magicians' trick, the mind takes the sense of it, unaware it is being misdirected, while what is actually happening is a process of garbage removal, deconditioning of the mind, which when complete enough reveals that there never was any transcending in the first place. There does not need to be a concept like god for this to happen. It is not even necessary to have the concept of transcending either, but sometimes it is useful as a tool, when people feel they are less than everything and separate from the world. The idea of transcending in spirituality is usually heavily tainted with traditional religious concepts, which tends to make practice 'to go beyond the range or limits of' current experience weighted down with a lot of additional conceptualisation and conditioning, in addition to the conceptualisation and conditioning of day to day living. That tends to double the mental load one has to discard to experience everything as being. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Curtis, If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no God, which is Being Itself? C: It is all in how you attach meaning to the experiences we have. I can do better than this. I experienced God plenty, and I still say that is not how I view these experiences now. Currently I think the state in TM is a silent aspect of our minds that has zero ontological meaning about how the universe works. It is just something our brains can do that we don't understand yet and are only confused by traditional assumptions. Different world view huh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do you think? C: I transcend just fine in the Maharishi technique sense, no differently than when I was a believer. I don't even have to have any
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Michael J., What's the point? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Man shoots, kills woman he mistakes for groundhog SUGAR CREEK TWP., Ohio — A 22-year-old woman is dead after a farmer mistakenly shot her thinking she was a groundhog in tall grass. Stark County Sheriff George Maier says Natasha Stover was shooting targets Monday with a BB gun when she laid down in the grass. Farmer Ralph Adams Jr., 79, thought she was a groundhog and fired a rifle about 165 feet away, hitting Stover in the head. The woman died the next day at the hospital. Maier said the shooting appears to be accidental but the case is still under investigation by the Stark County prosecutor's office. Stover's family says she loved animals and had a special gift working with them. She also had a strong faith and loved going to the library. Residents said Adams is well respected in the community.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Ann, Well said. You're a very intelligent woman. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. You're a rude and ignorant fuck-up Bawee. Why don't you just shut up and butt out and let civilized people engage in an intelligent and progressive exchange of ideas. John is one of the more non-reactive and polite posters here. It's great to see him engage on a subject that this forum seems to have been set up investigate - actual exchanges about transcendence and spiritual or deeper life experiences. You are just some snarly old poop who just has to burp in anyone's direction who has an opinion different from your own. Take your shitty attitude somewhere else or go have another beer. Either way, you add nothing of relevance or interest to either this conversation or any subject that extends in depth beyond what you can tell us CBS has for its Fall TV lineup.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Ann has had Barry's number virtually from the beginning of her time here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Ann, Well said. You're a very intelligent woman. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. You're a rude and ignorant fuck-up Bawee. Why don't you just shut up and butt out and let civilized people engage in an intelligent and progressive exchange of ideas. John is one of the more non-reactive and polite posters here. It's great to see him engage on a subject that this forum seems to have been set up investigate - actual exchanges about transcendence and spiritual or deeper life experiences. You are just some snarly old poop who just has to burp in anyone's direction who has an opinion different from your own. Take your shitty attitude somewhere else or go have another beer. Either way, you add nothing of relevance or interest to either this conversation or any subject that extends in depth beyond what you can tell us CBS has for its Fall TV lineup.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 2:36 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Be interesting to compare EEG measurements of lucid dreaming vs. witnessing dreams, see if they're similar or distinct. I've witnessed dreams, but there was never any impetus to interfere with them; and I've had a few lucid dreams in which becoming lucid was the trigger for changing them. For me they were very different types of experience. I’ll bet Fred Travis (MUM) has done some work in this area. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , rick@... mailto:rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current My understanding has been that witnessing dreams is just that, witnessing them, not trying to change what's happening in them. No? True, but I think there might be a correlation. People who witness might be more inclined to dream lucidly, due to being more clear in all states. A friend of mine who witnesses sleep clearly and consistently says most of his dreams are lucid. I don’t know if he tries to change things or just dreams more consciously than is ordinarily the case. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , rick@... mailto:rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
Be interesting to compare EEG measurements of lucid dreaming vs. witnessing dreams, see if they're similar or distinct. I've witnessed dreams, but there was never any impetus to interfere with them; and I've had a few lucid dreams in which becoming lucid was the trigger for changing them. For me they were very different types of experience. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current My understanding has been that witnessing dreams is just that, witnessing them, not trying to change what's happening in them. No? True, but I think there might be a correlation. People who witness might be more inclined to dream lucidly, due to being more clear in all states. A friend of mine who witnesses sleep clearly and consistently says most of his dreams are lucid. I don’t know if he tries to change things or just dreams more consciously than is ordinarily the case. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... mailto:rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 1:04 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Who thinks of lucid dreaming as mystical or spiritual? I don't think I've ever heard that one before. A lot of spiritual folks think of it that way. First reference to it I heard was in Carlos Casteneda’s books. Often discussed in talks at the Science and Non-Duality conference. MUM professor Charles Alexander (now deceased) did some research on it. It may be associated with witnessing sleep. Not to mention real Native American traditions and Tibetan Buddhist traditions, in which lucid dreaming is taught as a useful technique for preparing to transit the Bardo between death and rebirth. Methinks Judy doesn't know about any of this because she's never been able to control her dreams. Heck, she can barely control herself in the waking state. :-) :-) :-) Having practiced lucid dreaming for some years, I think I can comment on this article and this research with a bit more background than some others here. Lucid dreaming -- in the Castanedan, real Native American, and Tibetan Buddhist traditions -- does not concern itself with witnessing dreams. Since all three paths are pragmatic, they see little value in succeeding in waking up in the dream and then being a mere witness to what goes on in it. I can't say that I disagree with them; I've never seen the charm in this myself. It might appeal to those who believe that they live in a deterministic universe as a kind of spiritual voyeurism, but I'm just not drawn that way. :-) I liked waking up in the dream and then *fucking with reality*. If I didn't like my surroundings, I'd just decide to go somewhere else, and then Zap!, there I was. If I didn't like the way that certain events were shaping up, I'd just intervene and change them. If I wasn't thrilled with the astral folks I was currently hanging with, I would just intend a preference, and I'd be in another crowd. If the occasional beastie or nasty-astral creature tried to fuck with me, I'd either whisk myself away or stand up to it and enjoy the fight. It was fun. Do you begin to understand why I believe in free will? :-) But even though I enjoyed it, I couldn't maintain my interest in it as a continuing part of my sadhana. These days, if I wake up in the dream I can control them if I feel like it, or just enjoy them if I feel like that. This said, having had some experiences with lucid dreaming that some might consider mystical or spiritual, I am not the *least* offended by the implications of the research reported on in this article. SO WHAT if lucid dreaming is a mere neurological function that can be invoked by a gamma raygun. It's still what it is, and it's still fun. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Share, To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. Ecclesiastes 3:1 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : John, the older I get, the more I realize that it's such a huge universe, big enough for all possibilities, for throwing out all the old rules (-: On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:32 AM, jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Lawson, I find your comments to be generally similar to what I'm trying to say. My comments are in red letters below: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You're assuming that transcending means letting go of a specific kind of thought, rather than thoughts i general. Transcending refers to letting go of any thoughts. But ultimately the thought of God's existence, for atheists, non-theists and agnostics, will come into mind while in meditation or outside of meditation. If they cannot transcend the thought that there is no God, then they cannot let go of their individual self to merge with the cosmic Self. Thoughts are transcended during TM not because we hold onto specific thoughts during TM, but because we have been taught that it isn't necessary to attempt to control the mind during TM practice so we stop trying to control what happens next. Correct. I agree with this. Given the correct circumstances, aka starting TM, the mind will automatically start to settle down. I agree. That is all transcending means. Now, it is possible that the nervous system will settle down to the point where there are abrupt and obvious changes in breathing and heart rate and alpha-1 EEG coherence which researchers believe are due to an abrupt change in activity in certain parts of the thalamus, but that has nothing to do with belief, but only with specific conditions in the thalamus triggered, at times, by TM-practice. I agree. I've made a longer comment to Xeno about the difference between the individual self and the cosmic or universal Self. I saw your comments to that reply. I'll address those comments next. And the thalamus doesn't think or have beliefs, according to any theory I have heard. It is an important data switching center and helps regulate states of consciousness, breathing, etc., but doesn't do much data-processing in any way that would be related to belief. Belief and not-belief are influences on TM only so much as they interfere with allowing the practice to go on its own. I agree. But the individual self, sooner or later, should merge with the cosmic Self. When this is done, then cosmic consciousness can be attained. According to the TM practice, this could happen automatically. But it appears to me that the atheists, who are TMers, are consciously resisting this natural process to progress. So, it may take them longer to attain cosmic consciousness, or maybe they don't really care to achieve this state of consciousness. Far more detrimental to TM is the internet habit of seeking out the online version of the Teacher Training notes available online and mentally correlating that with what you are taught, as you are taught. This likely sets up extraneous connections in parts of the brain that wouldn't exist in people who learned TM without having first read the TT notes, and likely disrupts the activity that effortlessly thinking the mantra brings to bear in a localized way simply because there's so little prior intellectual connections established to bring more distant centers of the brain into play when meditation activity happens. I never stated anything related to Teacher Training notes. So, I can't address this point. Innocence of practice may well have a genuine physical significance. On the other hand, one could also argue that obsessively worrying about when one will encounter God during TM is far more detrimental to the practice of TM than not worrying about God in the first place. I agree. I would say that a non-believer, all other things being equal, is more likely to transcend than a Believer. It all depends on the individual's personality and physiology. But, in the final analysis, the individual self would have to be transcended to merge with the cosmic Self. If the atheist, who is a meditator, consciously resists this natural process by thoughts and actions, then he or she cannot cannot attain cosmic consciosness IMO. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Lawson, What is wrong with the statement that I made? Please, explain. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I think you're in the wrong meditation discussion forum or that you need to go get checked. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do you think?
[FairfieldLife] VoLTE!
http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/press-releases/mts-nokia-make-russia-s-first-live-volte-voice-and-video-call-on-telco-cloud?utm_source=dlvr.itutm_medium=twitter http://nsn.com/news-events/press-room/press-releases/mts-nokia-make-russia-s-first-live-volte-voice-and-video-call-on-telco-cloud?utm_source=dlvr.itutm_medium=twitter
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Judy, Jesus said many mysterious ideas in his teachings. IMO, he was conveying the idea of consciousness as the basis of everything to ignorant people, including the apostles, at that time. For this reason, the Jews conspired to have the Romans kill him by crucifixion on a wooden cross. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Nope. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you (Luke 12:31). Matthew has Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness... (6:33). Again, Nabby, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, who he thought were spiritually corrupt and incapable of entering the Kingdom of God. Within only works if you wrench the verse out of context. His whole point was that he, Jesus, represented the Kingdom of God, and the Pharisees were so spiritually blind they couldn't recognize him as such even though he was in the midst of or among them, right in front of their very eyes, talking to them. If you want to make a threat to the Church case, fine, but you can't legitimately use that verse to do it. Maharishi meant well, but he was no Bible scholar, and he goofed badly on that one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Isn't it in Lukas somewhere it says Seek yea first the kingdom of heaven within.. ? Among turned up in newer translations probably because the within was confusing since they have no idea what that is supposed to be. Also, someone who sought within would be a threat to the Church knowing he would not find a way to it in their teachings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: The complete sentence is, The Kingdom of God is within/among/in the midst of you--you meaning the Pharisees. You can't leave off the you without seriously misrepresenting what Jesus was saying. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Actually, there's major scholarly disagreement with the translation within. Jesus was directly addressing the Pharisees, after all, not making a general statement; and he'd made it crystal clear that he thought they were corrupt inside and out. Just contextually, it's extremely unlikely he was saying the Kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. Most translations other than the KJV have among or in the midst of or similar, referring to the Pharisees' inability to recognize Jesus as the representative of God's Kingdom. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people.
[FairfieldLife] ZALGO test
Ț͇͜h̸͉̳̝is̴ ͔̟̳i̯s̫͍̀ ̤͍͚͍̹̳n̬͎̲̯̞o͇̫̭̜͞t̘͝ ̯̯͎̥͉à̰ ̙͓̭̥r̗̫̟̀ḙ̯͇à͕͉l̴͍̱̼ ̞̟͙͍̬̹̘̀p̞̠ͅo̮̭̼̤s͏̥͕̰̼t̰͍̙. ͇̪̳̭͢I̩̞̫̳͇̲ͅt'̵̯͈̤͎s̘ ̷o̭̻n̤̮͝ļy̢̱̹̥̟ a̴ ̻t̗͈e͎̜͚s̳̺̣̜͇̦͘t̡̖͕̖̰ͅ.҉̘͈̜̰͈̮
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Comments below... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Judy, Jesus said many mysterious ideas in his teachings. IMO, he was conveying the idea of consciousness as the basis of everything to ignorant people, including the apostles, at that time. I'm not contesting this, John. It's just that in this particular verse, the context and the original language strongly suggest that among you or in your midst is the more accurate translation than within you. For this reason, the Jews conspired to have the Romans kill him by crucifixion on a wooden cross. (What other kind of cross would they have crucified him on??) More likely, it was because he was understood to be claiming to be God, which was blasphemy as far as the Jews were concerned (still is). As far as the Romans were concerned, he was a troublemaker and potentially a threat to Roman rule. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Nope. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you (Luke 12:31). Matthew has Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness... (6:33). Again, Nabby, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees, who he thought were spiritually corrupt and incapable of entering the Kingdom of God. Within only works if you wrench the verse out of context. His whole point was that he, Jesus, represented the Kingdom of God, and the Pharisees were so spiritually blind they couldn't recognize him as such even though he was in the midst of or among them, right in front of their very eyes, talking to them. If you want to make a threat to the Church case, fine, but you can't legitimately use that verse to do it. Maharishi meant well, but he was no Bible scholar, and he goofed badly on that one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Isn't it in Lukas somewhere it says Seek yea first the kingdom of heaven within.. ? Among turned up in newer translations probably because the within was confusing since they have no idea what that is supposed to be. Also, someone who sought within would be a threat to the Church knowing he would not find a way to it in their teachings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : P.S.: The complete sentence is, The Kingdom of God is within/among/in the midst of you--you meaning the Pharisees. You can't leave off the you without seriously misrepresenting what Jesus was saying. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Actually, there's major scholarly disagreement with the translation within. Jesus was directly addressing the Pharisees, after all, not making a general statement; and he'd made it crystal clear that he thought they were corrupt inside and out. Just contextually, it's extremely unlikely he was saying the Kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. Most translations other than the KJV have among or in the midst of or similar, referring to the Pharisees' inability to recognize Jesus as the representative of God's Kingdom. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people.
[FairfieldLife] A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
No. It's that you can't prove either free will or pre-destiny. So why bother? Enjoy your pattern. :-D On 05/12/2014 01:48 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in free will are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? Fish in a barrel, baby... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
FWIW, determinism and predestination are two different things. Predestination is the doctrine that everything that happens has been destined to happen from the beginning. Determinism is the doctrine that every action is determined by the previous action. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : No. It's that you can't prove either free will or pre-destiny. So why bother? Enjoy your pattern. :-D On 05/12/2014 01:48 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Problems awaiting action
By the Master —, through Benjamin Creme, 5 March 2014 It can be said without fear of contradiction that not all is right with the world. For example, the gap between the very rich and the hopelessly poor grows ever wider. This extreme imbalance is not healthy for any society. To be sure a few members of the rich community do indeed share their wealth with the poor, but in general the very rich aim rather at becoming mega-rich to the detriment of all. The ever-increasing commercialization of every aspect of life today is, in itself, a ‘time bomb’ whose rupture will bring the present economic structure to its knees. This time is not far off. So great are the tensions caused by this deep materialism that equilibrium is strained to breaking point. Most people are unaware of these forces, so deeply involved are they in the building of the tension. Thus will be presented to men their only natural course: the adoption of the principle of sharing. More and more, humanity is being edged towards this realization, however distant as yet are they from its actual manifestation. At the same time the ecological problems facing the world continue to a climax. Most countries today recognize that global warming is the enemy of all. The question which divides the nations is whether and to what extent man is responsible. The wisest course that men can follow is to assume that they are responsible for most of the pressures on the climate and to take all practical measures to rectify the problems. Some nations assuredly are doing so but not all. Our advice is that the actions and non-actions of humanity are responsible for eighty per cent of the problem and that men must, for their own and their children’s sake, spare nothing in its alleviation. Be assured that We will help them but they must play their part. With the collapse of the world economy men will come to realize their oneness. This realization will have a profound effect on their attitude to war. They will see that they are bound together in a struggle for survival, and the words of Maitreya will resound more loudly in their minds. Sharing, justice and freedom will grow in men’s minds as powerful symbols of the future, as inherent rights of all, the way to correct relationship. [This article from Share International magazine, April 2014 , is by a senior member of the Hierarchy of Masters of Wisdom. His name, well-known in esoteric circles, is not yet being revealed. Benjamin Creme, a principal spokesman about the emergence of Maitreya, is in constant telepathic contact with this Master who dictated his article to him.] Problems awaiting action - Share International magazine April 2014 issue http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-04.htm http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-04.htm Problems awaiting action - Share International magazi... http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-04.htm The main purpose of this web site is to present information about the emergence of Maitreya, the World Teacher, and his message of hope for the future View on www.share-internation... http://www.share-international.org/magazine/old_issues/2014/2014-04.htm Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
That's a beautiful and valid point of view. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Nabs, MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The ritual is done by burning ghee, mustard seed, coconut and other items within the fire, or Agni, one of the many deities in the Hindu pantheon of gods. In this sense, any of the ancient religions in the Middle East, including the Hebrews, have made similar burnt offerings to their deities and Yahweh, such as lamb and birds. So, with TM, the offering is really the individual thoughts which are burnt by the mantra within the meditators self. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Agreed, the ability to transcend has nothing whatsoever to do with ones beliefs in the waking state but on the mechanical abilities of the nervous-system. But if you are doing TM correctly it is doubtful one can remain an atheist forever. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Funny, I never really associated transcending with religious concepts or with God. I just transcended to a quieter area of my mind. My religious beliefs always remained separate. Sometimes, when meditating, I had what felt like restful alertness, which then translated into what I felt was a better degree of activity. In one instance I noticed a constant of silence when I shifted from sleeping to waking up. Nor am I aware of traditional religions talking much about transcending. But I like much of what else you say here. I mean a lot of it is the 'ol, ultimately, there's nowhere to go, sort of thing. But if you're not there, you really can't relate to it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending useful? All of us who learned TM obviously must have encountered the term. All the word means is 'to go beyond the range or limits of', and if everything, every aspect of experience is really being, then it cannot apply. It is a term useful for the spiritually stunted because it implies there is something more that can be mined from their experience than they currently recognise. Basically the term defines what is not experienced as transcending, but that does not mean that is what is actually happening when a person meditates is he or she is transcending to being. The whole thing is there all the time, like the ocean around a fish, just unnoticed. Transcending is a magicians' trick, the mind takes the sense of it, unaware it is being misdirected, while what is actually happening is a process of garbage removal, deconditioning of the mind, which when complete enough reveals that there never was any transcending in the first place. There does not need to be a concept like god for this to happen. It is not even necessary to have the concept of transcending either, but sometimes it is useful as a tool, when people feel they are less than everything and separate from the world. The idea of transcending in spirituality is usually heavily tainted with traditional religious concepts, which tends to make practice 'to go beyond the range or limits of' current experience weighted down with a lot of additional conceptualisation and conditioning, in addition to the conceptualisation and conditioning of day to day living. That tends to double the mental load one has to discard to experience everything as being. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Curtis, If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no God, which is Being Itself? C: It is all in how you attach meaning to the experiences we have. I can do better than this. I experienced God plenty, and I still say that is not how I view these experiences now. Currently I think the state in TM is a silent aspect of our minds that has zero ontological meaning about how the universe works. It is just something our brains can do that we don't understand yet and are only confused by traditional assumptions. Different world view huh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Why? Because they can't let go of the idea that God doesn't exist. What do you think? C: I transcend just fine in the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
What is your source material for saying Marshy said this, please? On Mon, 5/12/14, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 12, 2014, 7:20 PM Nabs, MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The ritual is done by burning ghee, mustard seed, coconut and other items within the fire, or Agni, one of the many deities in the Hindu pantheon of gods. In this sense, any of the ancient religions in the Middle East, including the Hebrews, have made similar burnt offerings to their deities and Yahweh, such as lamb and birds. So, with TM, the offering is really the individual thoughts which are burnt by the mantra within the meditators self. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Agreed, the ability to transcend has nothing whatsoever to do with ones beliefs in the waking state but on the mechanical abilities of the nervous-system. But if you are doing TM correctly it is doubtful one can remain an atheist forever. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Funny, I never really associated transcending with religious concepts or with God. I just transcended to a quieter area of my mind. My religious beliefs always remained separate. Sometimes, when meditating, I had what felt like restful alertness, which then translated into what I felt was a better degree of activity. In one instance I noticed a constant of silence when I shifted from sleeping to waking up. Nor am I aware of traditional religions talking much about transcending. But I like much of what else you say here. I mean a lot of it is the 'ol, ultimately, there's nowhere to go, sort of thing. But if you're not there, you really can't relate to it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending useful? All of us who learned TM obviously must have encountered the term. All the word means is 'to go beyond the range or limits of', and if everything, every aspect of experience is really being, then it cannot apply. It is a term useful for the spiritually stunted because it implies there is something more that can be mined from their experience than they currently recognise. Basically the term defines what is not experienced as transcending, but that does not mean that is what is actually happening when a person meditates is he or she is transcending to being. The whole thing is there all the time, like the ocean around a fish, just unnoticed. Transcending is a magicians' trick, the mind takes the sense of it, unaware it is being misdirected, while what is actually happening is a process of garbage removal, deconditioning of the mind, which when complete enough reveals that there never was any transcending in the first place. There does not need to be a concept like god for this to happen. It is not even necessary to have the concept of transcending either, but sometimes it is useful as a tool, when people feel they are less than everything and separate from the world. The idea of transcending in spirituality is usually heavily tainted with traditional religious concepts, which tends to make practice 'to go beyond the range or limits of' current experience weighted down with a lot of additional conceptualisation and conditioning, in addition to the conceptualisation and conditioning of day to day living. That tends to double the mental load one has to discard to experience everything as being. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Curtis, If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no God, which is Being Itself? C: It is all in how you attach meaning to the experiences we have. I can do better than this. I experienced God plenty, and I still say that is not how I view these experiences now. Currently I think the state in TM is a silent aspect of our minds that has zero ontological meaning about how the universe works. It is just something our brains can do that we don't understand yet and are only confused by traditional
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
From BBC site: Dream:ON is one of many new smartphone apps now available. Created by psychologist Richard Wiseman, the app has seen over half a million downloads in just six weeks.You choose your dream before bed, and the app plays sound cues once you've entered the right phase of sleep. When I selected birdsong, for example, I found myself dreaming that I was in a green and sunny field, says a user. Whilst this isn't strictly lucid dreaming, as it doesn't offer users control from within a dream, there are many more which promise just that. Singularity Experience, Dreamz, Sigmund and Lucid Dream Brainwave all work in a similar way, by playing subtle audio cues whilst the user is asleep. Not enough to wake them, but hopefully sufficient to trigger awareness inside a dream. http://www.dreamonapp.com/ http://www.dreamonapp.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
This story gets better and better. It transpires that the BBC DJ who was sacked for playing THE SUN HAS GOT HIS HAT ON only decided to play that song as a last-minute substitute for ABDUL ABULBUL AMIR, which a listener had requested. After listening to ABDUL the DJ felt it might cause offence. Its first line is: The sons of the Prophet are brave men and bold... Later you get: Then this bold Mameluke Drew his trusty skibouk Singing 'Allah! il-Allah! Al-lah!' And with murderous intent He ferociously went... The DJ was spooked he might be seen as Islamophobic so he played the song about tanning n*s instead. Funny old world we're living in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : There's been an amusing controversy here in the UK over the past days when a BBC DJ on his regular show playing vintage 78s treated his listeners to a 1932 British hit THE SUN HAS GOT HIS HAT ON. The hapless DJ didn't realize that the lyrics included the N-word - used in all innocence back in thirties Britain - and was forced to resign from his job which he'd held for decades. Funny thing is the song has to be one of the most joyful, life-affirming songs you've ever heard. I'd like to bet if you were to ask a Jamaican if they were offended they'd just laugh and say No Man! and enjoy the piece. The offending line is: He's been tanning n*s out in Timbuktu Now he's coming back to do the same to you Take a listen and see if you don't come away smiling. What's odd is that the BBC plays lots of rap and suchlike where the offending word occurs regularly but no-one seems to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDIpkz6DOi8amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDIpkz6DOi8amp;list=FLJad8vN225Nr5hDIzlEOYMA .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
This story gets better and better. It transpires that the BBC DJ who was sacked for playing THE SUN HAS GOT HIS HAT ON only decided to play that song as a last-minute substitute for ABDUL ABULBUL AMIR, which a listener had requested. After listening to ABDUL the DJ felt it might cause offence. Its first line is: The sons of the Prophet are brave men and bold... Later you get: Then this bold Mameluke Drew his trusty skibouk Singing 'Allah! il-Allah! Al-lah!' And with murderous intent He ferociously went... The DJ was spooked he might be seen as Islamophobic so he played the song about tanning n*s instead. Funny old world we're living in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA
[FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
This story gets better and better. It transpires that the BBC DJ who was sacked for playing THE SUN HAS GOT HIS HAT ON only decided to play that song as a last-minute substitute for ABDUL ABULBUL AMIR, which a listener had requested. After listening to ABDUL the DJ felt it might cause offence. Its first line is: The sons of the Prophet are brave men and bold... Later you get: Then this bold Mameluke Drew his trusty skibouk Singing 'Allah! il-Allah! Al-lah!' And with murderous intent He ferociously went... The DJ was spooked he might be seen as Islamophobic so he played the song about tanning n*s instead. Funny old world we're living in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA
[FairfieldLife] Freedom under the Domes
In 1943, the Supreme Court — in the case of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette — ruled that persons may not be compelled to stand and observe the pledge, writing, “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.” Too bad the leaders of the TMO don't feel the same way about the rank and file TM'ers.
[FairfieldLife] Post Count Tue 13-May-14 00:15:04 UTC
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 05/10/14 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 05/17/14 00:00:00 231 messages as of (UTC) 05/13/14 00:04:03 26 authfriend 23 TurquoiseBee turquoiseb 18 jr_esq 18 'Richard J. Williams' punditster 16 nablusoss1008 15 fleetwood_macncheese 13 curtisdeltablues 13 LEnglish5 12 steve.sundur 11 awoelflebater 10 dhamiltony2k5 10 Bhairitu noozguru 6 s3raphita 6 cardemaister 6 Pundit Sir punditster 6 'Rick Archer' rick 5 punditster 5 Share Long sharelong60 3 Mike Dixon mdixon.6569 3 Michael Jackson mjackson74 2 emptybill 2 Dick Mays dickmays 1 j_alexander_stanley 1 anartaxius Posters: 24 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
Michael J., MMY discusses the relevance of yagya in his commentary to the Bhagavad Gita, verse 9 to verse 15. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What is your source material for saying Marshy said this, please? On Mon, 5/12/14, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 12, 2014, 7:20 PM Nabs, MMY stated that meditation is a form of yagya performed in the context of vedic rituals. Yagyas are really offerings of food to the vedic gods. The ritual is done by burning ghee, mustard seed, coconut and other items within the fire, or Agni, one of the many deities in the Hindu pantheon of gods. In this sense, any of the ancient religions in the Middle East, including the Hebrews, have made similar burnt offerings to their deities and Yahweh, such as lamb and birds. So, with TM, the offering is really the individual thoughts which are burnt by the mantra within the meditators self. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Agreed, the ability to transcend has nothing whatsoever to do with ones beliefs in the waking state but on the mechanical abilities of the nervous-system. But if you are doing TM correctly it is doubtful one can remain an atheist forever. Organized religions don't talk much about transcending simply because they lack the methods to achieve it. The Kingdom of God is within must the most revolutionary concept in Christianity yet is rarely or even never discussed out of fear the Church would loose it's grip on the people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Funny, I never really associated transcending with religious concepts or with God. I just transcended to a quieter area of my mind. My religious beliefs always remained separate. Sometimes, when meditating, I had what felt like restful alertness, which then translated into what I felt was a better degree of activity. In one instance I noticed a constant of silence when I shifted from sleeping to waking up. Nor am I aware of traditional religions talking much about transcending. But I like much of what else you say here. I mean a lot of it is the 'ol, ultimately, there's nowhere to go, sort of thing. But if you're not there, you really can't relate to it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : If everything is being, 'transcending' is then just a myth, a story. The question here is, under what circumstances is the concept of transcending useful? All of us who learned TM obviously must have encountered the term. All the word means is 'to go beyond the range or limits of', and if everything, every aspect of experience is really being, then it cannot apply. It is a term useful for the spiritually stunted because it implies there is something more that can be mined from their experience than they currently recognise. Basically the term defines what is not experienced as transcending, but that does not mean that is what is actually happening when a person meditates is he or she is transcending to being. The whole thing is there all the time, like the ocean around a fish, just unnoticed. Transcending is a magicians' trick, the mind takes the sense of it, unaware it is being misdirected, while what is actually happening is a process of garbage removal, deconditioning of the mind, which when complete enough reveals that there never was any transcending in the first place. There does not need to be a concept like god for this to happen. It is not even necessary to have the concept of transcending either, but sometimes it is useful as a tool, when people feel they are less than everything and separate from the world. The idea of transcending in spirituality is usually heavily tainted with traditional religious concepts, which tends to make practice 'to go beyond the range or limits of' current experience weighted down with a lot of additional conceptualisation and conditioning, in addition to the conceptualisation and conditioning of day to day living. That tends to double the mental load one has to discard to experience everything as being. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Curtis, If you say that you've transcended while meditating, then that means you've experienced Being. So if that is so, how can you say that there is no
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
I think his point was probably that the farmer was just like the TMO -- always getting things wrong and harming people. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Michael J., What's the point? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Man shoots, kills woman he mistakes for groundhog SUGAR CREEK TWP., Ohio — A 22-year-old woman is dead after a farmer mistakenly shot her thinking she was a groundhog in tall grass. Stark County Sheriff George Maier says Natasha Stover was shooting targets Monday with a BB gun when she laid down in the grass. Farmer Ralph Adams Jr., 79, thought she was a groundhog and fired a rifle about 165 feet away, hitting Stover in the head. The woman died the next day at the hospital. Maier said the shooting appears to be accidental but the case is still under investigation by the Stark County prosecutor's office. Stover's family says she loved animals and had a special gift working with them. She also had a strong faith and loved going to the library. Residents said Adams is well respected in the community.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Watch out for the N-Word
In other words, he was looking for trouble On Monday, May 12, 2014 4:01 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: This story gets better and better. It transpires that the BBC DJ who was sacked for playing THE SUN HAS GOT HIS HAT ON only decided to play that song as a last-minute substitute for ABDUL ABULBUL AMIR, which a listener had requested. After listening to ABDUL the DJ felt it might cause offence. Its first line is: The sons of the Prophet are brave men and bold... Later you get: Then this bold Mameluke Drew his trusty skibouk Singing 'Allah! il-Allah! Al-lah!' And with murderous intent He ferociously went... The DJ was spooked he might be seen as Islamophobic so he played the song about tanning n*s instead. Funny old world we're living in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6vyZ_q-TjA
[FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : Ann, Well said. You're a very intelligent woman. Well honestly John, the guy has the manners of a constipated hippo, the grace of a one-legged stork, the sophistication of a porcupine on steroids and the depth measured by a teaspoon of spit. He has no more business trying to engage with someone with a genuine interest to learn and understand any more than I have the right to pilot a 787. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : John, since you persist in this somewhat presumptuous folly, I'd like you to *document* why you believe it, and believe that *your* version of who can transcend and who cannot seems to differ from Maharishi's. Please find and post for us quotes from him that say what you claim, that only those who believe in God can transcend. I seem to remember many lectures and writings in which he stated the opposite, that every human being can transcend. I remember in particular lectures in which he was asked whether people of very low IQ or suffering from brain damage could transcend, and he answered with an unequivocal Of course. Anyone who can think can transcend. I don't seem to remember very many quotes in which he added, Everyone can transcend...EXCEPT those who don't believe in God. It seems that you have found these quotes, so please share them with us. Or are you possibly doing what The Corrector has done lately, and projecting what *you* want to believe onto someone you consider an authority. She feels safe with claiming to know the definitive interpretation of Jesus' words, based solely on having read translations of what he is *reputed* to have said, written down by other people. You seem equally comfortable supplying this missing phrase to complete the teachings of someone who actually wrote his *own* teachings down. Please share the source of your insights with us. If you cannot, please explain to us why we shouldn't consider them mere examples of spiritual bigotry and hatred, spouted by someone anxious to impose his notions of an Old Testament God onto Maharishi's notions of Being and overwrite them...replace them with a vengeful, neurotic God who is willing (and able) to deny experience of Him to anyone who does not believe as he or she should. Me, I just think you got your buttons pushed by a few people honestly stating an opinion about the non-existence of an imaginary being you have heavily invested in, and are trying to find some way to lash out at these heretics. In your mind, you have found find ways to deny them both the ability to transcend, and the ability to become enlightened. You seem unaware that doing so forces you to contradict the person you claim to hold as your spiritual teacher, and enlightened himself. I'd like to see you find direct quotes from this teacher (Maharishi) that support your theory. If you cannot, I reserve the right to consider you Just Another Spiritual Bigot, and a rather stupid one at that. We'll wait. You're a rude and ignorant fuck-up Bawee. Why don't you just shut up and butt out and let civilized people engage in an intelligent and progressive exchange of ideas. John is one of the more non-reactive and polite posters here. It's great to see him engage on a subject that this forum seems to have been set up investigate - actual exchanges about transcendence and spiritual or deeper life experiences. You are just some snarly old poop who just has to burp in anyone's direction who has an opinion different from your own. Take your shitty attitude somewhere else or go have another beer. Either way, you add nothing of relevance or interest to either this conversation or any subject that extends in depth beyond what you can tell us CBS has for its Fall TV lineup.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Are 'visions of God' really just temporal lobe epilepsy?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : hey turq and Ann, yes, this is a wonderful article, if a bit biased. I like the point at the end that only Joan of Arc could of rallied the French. And it seems that Dostoevsky still could write acclimed novels which probably have enriched the lives of some people. So...regardless of the neurological event and regardless of how it is labeled, such events don't preclude that a person lives a beneficial life. I don't think there was ever any question of how beneficial someones life is or isn't based on whether they have visions based on epilepsy or not. I think what Bawee was doing here was his usual let's-see-if-I-can-push-any-buttons-here shtick. If so, what does it say about YOU that you got your buttons pushed yet again? :-) :-) :-) You couldn't find my button if I guided your hand there myself. Dream on loser, you haven't even figured out the first thing about me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Lucid dreaming can be induced with an electrical current
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Another fascinating article presenting a different way of looking at experiences that many would call mystical or spiritual. To a scientist -- or to a non-dogmatist -- they're just experiences. That proves it: Bawee's many lucid dreaming experiences can finally be explained - he has evidently placed his vibrator next to his head. Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electrical Current http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Scientists Induced Lucid Dreaming With An Electric... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 The findings are the first to show that inducing brain waves of a specific frequency produces lucid dreaming. View on www.businessinside... http://www.businessinsider.com/r-to-sleep-perchance-to-control-your-dreams-2014-11 Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : FWIW, determinism and predestination are two different things. Predestination is the doctrine that everything that happens has been destined to happen from the beginning. Determinism is the doctrine that every action is determined by the previous action. Judy, you know that defining and making distinctions between things like this is not Bawee's cuppa. He simply can't be bothered with detail, new understanding or subtlety. This is waaayy over his dummkopf. And he always defaults to the most negative spin possible with regard to people. His is a world where it is necessary, indeed his very survival depends upon, casting the worst possible light on someone's motivation or abilities. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : No. It's that you can't prove either free will or pre-destiny. So why bother? Enjoy your pattern. :-D On 05/12/2014 01:48 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] A thought -- freely willed -- about determinism
Yes, I do know, but actually, I was responding to Bhairitu, not Barry. Really just a point of possible general interest for anyone following these discussions. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : FWIW, determinism and predestination are two different things. Predestination is the doctrine that everything that happens has been destined to happen from the beginning. Determinism is the doctrine that every action is determined by the previous action. Judy, you know that defining and making distinctions between things like this is not Bawee's cuppa. He simply can't be bothered with detail, new understanding or subtlety. This is waaayy over his dummkopf. And he always defaults to the most negative spin possible with regard to people. His is a world where it is necessary, indeed his very survival depends upon, casting the worst possible light on someone's motivation or abilities. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : No. It's that you can't prove either free will or pre-destiny. So why bother? Enjoy your pattern. :-D On 05/12/2014 01:48 PM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Have you ever considered the possibility that those who believe in a determinist universe are just too dull to imagine the world they see around them any other way? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
No it was just a post that might be of interest to those who had been talking
about guns. One may interpret the story of death by mistaken identity as one
sees fit.
On Tue, 5/13/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2014, 12:50 AM
I think his point was probably that the farmer was
just like the TMO -- always getting things wrong and harming
people.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
jr_esq@... wrote :
Michael J.,
What's the point?
---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote
:
Man
shoots, kills woman he mistakes for groundhog
SUGAR CREEK TWP., Ohio — A 22-year-old woman is dead after
a farmer mistakenly shot her thinking she was a groundhog in
tall grass.
Stark County Sheriff George Maier says Natasha Stover was
shooting targets Monday with a BB gun when she laid down in
the grass. Farmer Ralph Adams Jr., 79, thought she was a
groundhog and fired a rifle about 165 feet away, hitting
Stover in the head.
The woman died the next day at the hospital.
Maier said the shooting appears to be accidental but the
case is still under investigation by the Stark County
prosecutor's office.
Stover's family says she loved animals and had a special
gift working with them. She also had a strong faith and
loved going to the library.
Residents said Adams is well respected in the
community.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Atheists Can't Transcend
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : No it was just a post that might be of interest to those who had been talking about guns. One may interpret the story of death by mistaken identity as one sees fit. It is as interesting as it is relevant. Not only do we have the cases of intentional murder by a weapon 20 times as powerful as a man, we also have the unintentional victims. Not to mention the innocent animals simply trying to exist from day to day that someone feels the compulsion to shoot because they don't like the look of them or they are eating one cob of corn too many. I daresay the amount of human food these creatures eat is a fraction of what we throw out each day.
