Enlightenment In Action (was Re: [FairfieldLife] It was good, while it lasted, huh?)
One final commentary, because it's so perfect I can't resist. :-) From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Anyway, thank you for all the support in getting this place real. Let's send the ex-TM teachers back where they came from. What a couple of Losers. Losers with a capital L... The Many Insults of Biff The Many Insults of Biff View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] A real treasure for those who loved Buckaroo Banzai
Kevin Smith's 6-minute speech about this movie at the NY Film Festival is worth the cost of admission in itself, but then Buckaroo Banzai himself (Peter Weller) and Lord John Whorfin (John Lithgow) come onstage and swap reminiscences of making one of the most amazing cult movies ever made. These guys are having so much fun it should be illegal. Kevin Smith's SMoviola Buckaroo Banzai at the 49th New York Film Festival Kevin Smith's SMoviola Buckaroo Banzai at the 49... View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too I don't believe the Hebrews knew what he was trying to convey back then. But most people today don't know either. The burning bush that he used as a writing symbolism could be interpreted as the burnt offering to the Self or Yahweh, or the thoughts that are burnt by the mantra during meditation. Or maybe the eternal flame of unity consciousness? What do you think? I think you should stop making wild leaps in the dark and trying to find connections where there aren't any. Personally...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Buck, herein I'm doing what I think MJ is doing which is to respond from yahoo
old format rather than from Neo. Next I'll respond from Neo. I'm guessing that
MJ has the option too.
On Sat, 5/17/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 17, 2014, 10:20 PM
No, MJ it is odd and unique. It
is
something [bad and unconventional] with you.
-Buck
mjackson74 writes:
I'm just
using yahoo mail - blame it on them.
On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@...
[FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM
Dear MJ,
what ever did you do to repair your computer that it
formats
so badly
to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you.
Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts
come
through to the list like yours do. You must have your
own
unique program. They are often a complete pain in
the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting
that
happens with you. Does not
seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself
may be
allergic to your unique and negative content even though
the
internet is
supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad]
you
are doing, -Buck
mjackson74writes:
On Sat, 5/17/14, Michael
Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
wrote:Subject: [FairfieldLife] Clay
and SilkTo: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate:
Saturday, May 17, 2014,
8:39 PMyiv3762032787 #yiv3762032787
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com http://www.avast.com Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. It would indeed, especially compared to many on this forum who have been practicing TM for decades, and who never shirk from jumping in to discussions to assert exactly what enlightenment is and is not, all without ever having experienced it, even briefly. I have to assume that Sam, whatever his experiences have been, would be somewhat more humble about the whole thing...
[FairfieldLife] Fw: 8 of the World's Most Beautiful Gardens, How Your Mind Impacts Your Metabolism, Is Gluten 'Sensitivity' Real?
for noozguru... The Incredible Way Your Mind Affects Your Metabolism The Incredible Way Your Mind Affects Your Metabolism Get this -- your conscious mind can actually control the way your body metabolizes food. View on www.care2.com Preview by Yahoo On Sunday, May 18, 2014 4:55 AM, Care2 Healthy Living healthy-and-green-liv...@australia.care2.com wrote: Healthy Living 8 of the World’s Most Beautiful Gardens It's finally May and, for us in the Northern Hemisphere, it means one big thing: the world is in bloom again! It's the perfect time of year, then, t...read more The Incredible Way Your Mind Affects Your Metabolism Get this -- the nutrition labels on your packaged foods may be more powerful than you are aware. Sure, they provide some sort of transparency to processed ... read more Gluten Insensitivity May Not Actually Exist Those who follow gluten-free diets usually come in one of three types: those who have celiac disease, those who have some other gluten intolerance, and tho... read more 5 Questionable Food Ingredients to Avoid (Infographic) Monosodium Glusamate sounds like a different language. So do hundreds of other ingredients we skim on our labels. Monosodium Glusamate is actually the infa... read more True Dog Happiness at its Simplest Cutest (Video) This dog is so unbelievably happy that he can't contain himself! It's precious, and more importantly, watching it is a pure joy. This moment wonderfully s... read more Asparagus with Gremolata I look forward to asparagus season all year. But, after a while, roasting or grilling up some spears with a little olive oil and salt and pepper can get a ... read more Are You Willing to Do What It Takes to Get Out of Debt? On the morning of New Year’s Eve, I got the news that my husband had passed away. He left me and my eleven-month old son with $3,000,000 of debt. Hearing t... read more Drink From Your Book With This New Water Purifier While over 3.4 million people die from water-borne diseases each year, the trouble is that the people who live in affected areas may have no idea that cont... read more Can’t Sleep? Here’s What You Should Do Your head is on the pillow, and it is past 10 p.m. You close your eyes and try to sleep, but they flutter open again. And again. The minutes tick by. What ... read more Care2 Privacy Policy Subscribe | Unsubscribe We hate SPAM too. To stop receiving this alert or change this email address, go to the Care2 Subscription Center c To stop receiving this newsletter, visit: http://www.care2.com/newsletters/unsub/99193/0/49510140/6dcc05d4 or send a blank email message to: ng-u-99193-49510140-8653726-13228627-17c18...@australia.care2.com Care2.com, Inc. 275 Shoreline Drive, Suite 300 Redwood City, CA 94065 http://www.care2.com
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi: Expansion of the heart is in giving. Maximum expansion is through giving unboundedness.
Dear friends and others, David Hooper is a member of Maharishi's Purusha program who e-mails wonderful, free daily quotes from Maharishi to those who request them. The following are precious quotes about the expansion of heart I received yesterday and today. I recommend you e-mail to join David's service at davehooper...@gmail.com. Jai Guru Dev, Dick Yesterday From: David Hooper davehooper...@gmail.com [Note: The following quote was taken from a talk given at the end of a TM Teacher Training Course.] Now let us see the principle of growth of the heart, how the heart grows. The principle of the growth of heart is in one word: give. In giving, the mother gives to the child, the child gives to the mother. This giving is the formula for the expansion of the heart. Expansion of the heart is in giving. You give more and the heart expands more, and you give more, and you give more, and you give more, and you give more. There is no gift greater than the art of transcending. It immediately opens unboundedness to one's awareness. Giving boundaries is giving small things, and then you give unboundedness and then the heart expands. The more you give, the more the heart expands; the more you give, the more expansion of the heart. You give unboundedness, and the heart expands to unboundedness. So if there is any realistic expansion of the heart, it is in the life of the teacher. No matter what you teach -- mathematics, physics, geography, this, this -- giving of knowledge is the greatest expansion of the heart because knowledge is something which is at the basis of action, behavior, achievement, fulfillment. Knowledge is the seed of fulfillment. So when you give the seed of fulfillment, then you give out the whole potential of the tree of fulfillment. This is true of all teaching. This is million times more true in the teaching of transcending, the art of transcending, because you give unboundedness straight away. Teaching of Transcendental Meditation is such a profound teaching, that you give unboundedness to him without him doing anything for it -- natural, effortless. It's such an expansion of the heart, it's such an expansion of the heart. Huge. Great. There is no other method of expanding the heart more profound or even parallel to this teaching of TM for expansion of the heart, because it's real -- something very, very real. You will see in your procedures, practices, a man comes worried and his face is not even worthy of description. And then you initiate him and next day he comes -- brighter, some light in his face. Then you will know the value of what you have given him. Such an enormous gift! And then, yes, I could give him life. What a great upsurge of beautiful feeling that one never gets anywhere through any performance, through any action, through any behavior. It's so real. Then day-after-day the same waves of expansion -- day-after-day, day-after-day. Even speaking on the social level, this becomes a means for gaining Cosmic Consciousness. Just these waves of expansion of the heart. There is nothing more profound than this: giving the mechanics of infinity, unboundedness, Absolute. Nothing more rewarding. to be continued ~Maharishi~ ~Audiotape --1974~ Jai Guru Dev To unsubscribe , send a reply with unsubscribe entered as the subject or message -- David Hooper 1000 Purusha Place, Suite 219 Romney, WV 26757 Today From: David Hooper davehooper...@gmail.com There is nothing more profound than this: giving the mechanics of infinity, unboundedness, Absolute. Nothing more rewarding. You may find people shouting aloud in a room -- ten, twenty people -- some others falling on the ground, some others starting to jump up and down, some sitting and doing like that, like that. You may feel that there is a great emotional upsurge and this is the way to culture the heart, but the whole thing is a fantasy. This is not the real, genuine culture of the heart. It's trying to culture the heart, mood-making. It doesn't result in any genuine upliftment or expansion of the heart. It may appear to be something like that, but when you go into the details of the life of those who are enveloping themselves in this kind of mood, you'll know that the whole thing is very unrealistic. Hearts are not cultured on the level of mood-making. The heart is such a delicate instrument. It needs something real, and if it's not real, it will be shrinking more than expanding. It needs something very, very real and concrete to feel and to swell in its values. It's very difficult to have the heart exposed to deceptions -- [the] intellect maybe through wrong kind of analysis and logic -- but the heart is something very, very real. It needs something real for its existence and for its expansion. Nothing, no mood-making, no trying would ever expand the heart. It'll result in shrinking more, and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
[FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Maharishi: Expansion of the heart is in giving. Maximum expansion is through giving unboundedness.
Dick, thank you for giving this gift... On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:27 AM, Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Dear friends and others, David Hooper is a member of Maharishi's Purusha program who e-mails wonderful, free daily quotes from Maharishi to those who request them. The following are precious quotes about the expansion of heart I received yesterday and today. I recommend you e-mail to join David's service at davehooper...@gmail.com. Jai Guru Dev, Dick Yesterday From: David Hooper davehooper...@gmail.com [Note: The following quote was taken from a talk given at the end of a TM Teacher Training Course.] Now let us see the principle of growth of the heart, how the heart grows. The principle of the growth of heart is in one word: give. In giving, the mother gives to the child, the child gives to the mother. This giving is the formula for the expansion of the heart. Expansion of the heart is in giving. You give more and the heart expands more, and you give more, and you give more, and you give more, and you give more. There is no gift greater than the art of transcending. It immediately opens unboundedness to one's awareness. Giving boundaries is giving small things, and then you give unboundedness and then the heart expands. The more you give, the more the heart expands; the more you give, the more expansion of the heart. You give unboundedness, and the heart expands to unboundedness. So if there is any realistic expansion of the heart, it is in the life of the teacher. No matter what you teach -- mathematics, physics, geography, this, this -- giving of knowledge is the greatest expansion of the heart because knowledge is something which is at the basis of action, behavior, achievement, fulfillment. Knowledge is the seed of fulfillment. So when you give the seed of fulfillment, then you give out the whole potential of the tree of fulfillment. This is true of all teaching. This is million times more true in the teaching of transcending, the art of transcending, because you give unboundedness straight away. Teaching of Transcendental Meditation is such a profound teaching, that you give unboundedness to him without him doing anything for it -- natural, effortless. It's such an expansion of the heart, it's such an expansion of the heart. Huge. Great. There is no other method of expanding the heart more profound or even parallel to this teaching of TM for expansion of the heart, because it's real -- something very, very real. You will see in your procedures, practices, a man comes worried and his face is not even worthy of description. And then you initiate him and next day he comes -- brighter, some light in his face. Then you will know the value of what you have given him. Such an enormous gift! And then, yes, I could give him life. What a great upsurge of beautiful feeling that one never gets anywhere through any performance, through any action, through any behavior. It's so real. Then day-after-day the same waves of expansion -- day-after-day, day-after-day. Even speaking on the social level, this becomes a means for gaining Cosmic Consciousness. Just these waves of expansion of the heart. There is nothing more profound than this: giving the mechanics of infinity, unboundedness, Absolute. Nothing more rewarding. to be continued ~Maharishi~ ~Audiotape --1974~ Jai Guru Dev To unsubscribe , send a reply with unsubscribe entered as the subject or message -- David Hooper 1000 Purusha Place, Suite 219 Romney, WV 26757 Today From: David Hooper davehooper...@gmail.com There is nothing more profound than this: giving the mechanics of infinity, unboundedness, Absolute. Nothing more rewarding. You may find people shouting aloud in a room -- ten, twenty people -- some others falling on the ground, some others starting to jump up and down, some sitting and doing like that, like that. You may feel that there is a great emotional upsurge and this is the way to culture the heart, but the whole thing is a fantasy. This is not the real, genuine culture of the heart. It's trying to culture the heart, mood-making. It doesn't result in any genuine upliftment or expansion of the heart. It may appear to be something like that, but when you go into the details of the life of those who are enveloping themselves in this kind of mood, you'll know that the whole thing is very unrealistic. Hearts are not cultured on the level of mood-making. The heart is such a delicate instrument. It needs something real, and if it's not real, it will be shrinking more than expanding. It needs something very, very real and concrete to feel and to swell in its values. It's very difficult to have the heart exposed to deceptions -- [the] intellect maybe through wrong kind of analysis and logic -- but the heart is something very, very real.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Yes, I noticed the attempt at categorization on Batgap. It is lame. -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Rick should get someone much more scholarly to discern and categorize the interviewees spiritually if Rick is going to publish a categorical list like that and not just some earnest friend. First Rick ought to pull the list from the page for now, back up and think about it some more before publishing some stoopid list that way it is growing or he is looking at all kinds of legal troubles for Batgap and himself. Kindly, -Buck in the Dome Yes, I noticed the attempt at categorization on Batgap. It is lame. -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not
[FairfieldLife] One of the sexiest TM'ers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8
[FairfieldLife] Re: One of the sexiest TM'ers?
tmhome.com/experiences/sheryl-crow-on-meditation/
[FairfieldLife] Re: One of the sexiest TM'ers?
Meh... But, of course, I'm highly biased. http://youtu.be/gP6FYQskKPM http://youtu.be/gP6FYQskKPM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemais...@yahoo.com wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
In the west the categorization of spirituality technically falls in to 'Quietism', 'Piety' and 'Inspiration'. The Batgap interviews in a more scholarly way often fall nicely in to this typology when looked at this way. -Buck Rick should get someone much more scholarly [with credentials] to discern and categorize the interviewees spiritually if Rick is going to publish a categorical list like that and not just let some earnest friend work on it. First Rick ought to pull the list from the page right now, back up and think about it some more before publishing some stoopid list that way it is growing now or he is looking at all kinds of legal troubles for Batgap and himself. Kindly, -Buck in the Dome Yes, I noticed the attempt at categorization on Batgap. It is lame. -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not
[FairfieldLife] Yogatón Maharishi
An entire district of Lima is being offered to be taught TM Meditación trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/ Meditación trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/ MAÑANA YOGATÓN View on laprimeraperu.pe http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/ Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] 100 hundred particpants in Invvincible Ukraine
Invincible Ukraine http://www.invincible-ukraine.org/ daily updates scroll down Invincible Ukraine http://www.invincible-ukraine.org/ Creating Coherence and Harmony in the Collective Consciousness of Ukraine for Peace and Unity in the Nation View on www.invincible-ukraine.org http://www.invincible-ukraine.org/ Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
The burning bush was an experience, while absorbed in pure awareness. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 1:04 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too I don't believe the Hebrews knew what he was trying to convey back then. But most people today don't know either. The burning bush that he used as a writing symbolism could be interpreted as the burnt offering to the Self or Yahweh, or the thoughts that are burnt by the mantra during meditation. Or maybe the eternal flame of unity consciousness? What do you think? I think you should stop making wild leaps in the dark and trying to find connections where there aren't any. Personally...
[FairfieldLife] Re: One of the sexiest TM'ers?
Nice earrings. Not to mention a total beauty! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, j_alexander_stanley@... wrote : Meh... But, of course, I'm highly biased. http://youtu.be/gP6FYQskKPM http://youtu.be/gP6FYQskKPM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Om, In the west the categorization of spirituality technically falls in to 'Quietism', 'Piety' and 'Inspiration'. The Batgap interviews in a more scholarly way often fall nicely in to this typology when looked at this way. -Buck Those would be safer demarcations to categorize by that could have some scholarly basis. Though as started on the current Batgap categorizations, different from the spirituality typology of these three established categories, the channel-ers seem to fall over in to their own category of 'spiritism'. That is fair and understandable. Rick should get someone much more scholarly [with credentials] to discern and categorize the interviewees spiritually if Rick is going to publish a categorical list like that and not just let some earnest friend to work on it. First Rick really ought to pull the list from the Batgap page right now, back up and think about it some more before publishing some stoopid list that way it is growing now or he is looking at all kinds of legal troubles for Batgap and himself. Kindly, -Buck in the Dome Yes, I noticed the attempt at categorization on Batgap. It is lame. -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
On 5/18/2014 5:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Buck, herein I'm doing what I think MJ is doing which is to respond from yahoo old format rather than from Neo. Next I'll respond from Neo. I'm guessing that MJ has the option too. Apparently MJ does not know how to use Neo - it's complicated, I guess. Go figure. You might try using Google Chrome and the free Google Mail. I know some older people are averse to learning new things - we often get set in our ways. I've had years of experience helping people use computer software. I've worked with faculty and students at a community college help desk. Then later, I was the manager of the faculty computer lab. One teacher, a Ph.D. professor, wanted to author and teach an online course in history, so I showed him how to upload a flat file to a web site using FTP. It's not complicated. But, he couldn't or didn't want to remember the steps. Every week he would come into the lab wanting to upload a file, and I had to show him how to do every time for two semesters. Go figure. One teacher, another Ph.D, didn't even know how to key in a school lesson using a text editor! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: A joke vs. enlightenment - Barry chooses the joke :-)
A joke, vs. enlightenment, and what do you do, Barry? You choose the joke. Get it? :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : One final commentary, because it's so perfect I can't resist. :-) From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Anyway, thank you for all the support in getting this place real. Let's send the ex-TM teachers back where they came from. What a couple of Losers. Losers with a capital L... The Many Insults of Biff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wVEAgVPi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wVEAgVPi8 The Many Insults of Biff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7wVEAgVPi8 View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
On 5/18/2014 8:10 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: The burning bush was an experience, while absorbed in pure awareness. From what I've read, the story of the burning bush is a reference to experiencing a hallucination after ingesting manna, which was probably an ethoegen of some unspecified type. The story of Moses seeing a burning bush has all the earmarks of a psychedelic experience - regardless of whether or not Moses really existed, we know that bushes don't spontaneously burst into flame and start talking. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Anybody have any idea what she means by old Yahoo format?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Buck, herein I'm responding from Neo rather than old yahoo format.
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:20 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is something [bad and unconventional] with
you. -Buck
mjackson74 writes:
I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them.
On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM
Dear MJ,
what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats
so badly
to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you.
Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come
through to the list like yours do. You must have your own
unique program. They are often a complete pain in
the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that
happens with you. Does not
seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself
may be
allergic to your unique and negative content even though the
internet is
supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you
are doing, -Buck
mjackson74writes:
On Sat, 5/17/14, Michael
Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:Subject: [FairfieldLife] Clay
and SilkTo: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, May 17, 2014,
8:39 PMyiv3762032787 #yiv3762032787
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Yogatón Maharishi
Hopefully they will have the good sense to say no.
On Sun, 5/18/14, sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Yogatón Maharishi
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 12:54 PM
An entire district of Lima is being offered to be
taught TM
Meditación
trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera
Meditación
trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera MAÑANA
YOGATÓN
View on laprimeraperu.pe
Preview by Yahoo
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. It would indeed, especially compared to many on this forum who have been practicing TM for decades, and who never shirk from jumping in to discussions to assert exactly what enlightenment is and is not, all without ever having experienced it, even briefly. Is this irony? Or are you really so un-self aware?! I have to assume that Sam, whatever his experiences have been, would be somewhat more humble about the whole thing...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : The burning bush was an experience, while absorbed in pure awareness. Were you there, or do you like reinterpreting everything through your own belief system too? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 1:04 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too I don't believe the Hebrews knew what he was trying to convey back then. But most people today don't know either. The burning bush that he used as a writing symbolism could be interpreted as the burnt offering to the Self or Yahweh, or the thoughts that are burnt by the mantra during meditation. Or maybe the eternal flame of unity consciousness? What do you think? I think you should stop making wild leaps in the dark and trying to find connections where there aren't any. Personally...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
How would you even know, Barry? You have, by your own admission, no established silence in your daily activity - no enlightenment. This is the kind of thing that embarrasses others, watching you, an ex-TM teacher, with no clue about his, or any one else's liberation, pronouncing opinions and beliefs, based on nothing. Ego is not enlightenment, and whoever taught you that it is, is mistaken. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. It would indeed, especially compared to many on this forum who have been practicing TM for decades, and who never shirk from jumping in to discussions to assert exactly what enlightenment is and is not, all without ever having experienced it, even briefly. I have to assume that Sam, whatever his experiences have been, would be somewhat more humble about the whole thing...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Michael's posts have always looked just fine to me on the Web site. Maybe the problem is on your end, Buck. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is something [bad and unconventional] with you. -Buck mjackson74 writes: I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them. On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM Dear MJ, what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats so badly to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you. Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come through to the list like yours do. You must have your own unique program. They are often a complete pain in the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that happens with you. Does not seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself may be allergic to your unique and negative content even though the internet is supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you are doing, -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, can you say in a nutshell what about consciousness you think Maharishi got wrong? C: Thanks for asking Share. You will get more than a nutshell because this is a rich topic. The first fundamental problem for me is that he was shaping our view of our experiences from his techniques from a religious perspective created in a pre-scientific society. He made many unwarranted assumptions about the value of his techniques or what he was doing to our brains. Although they are highly addictive and pleasurable states of mind, I see no evidence that they improve anyone's thinking or creative processes. I see evidence of the opposite at least at higher levels of exposure. High exposure leads to an erosion of the ability to distinguish internal and external experiences. This causes a lot of problems that show up in claims here. I challenge his fundamental assumption that knowledge is structured in consciousness. This is epistemological bogus and psychologically manipulative. It comes from a non modern view of what knowledge is that had its birth in a caste system controlled culture. If you see what Jim is attempting to assume here by virtue of his self reported grandiose claims of experiences you can see where this belief leads socially. It has been rejected by all modern societies for good reason. A: I have been following this discussion with moderate interest. My highlighted statement is what I find relatively unsupported and just kind of thrown out there. It doesn't resonate with anything true for me. If you want, you could elaborate on it. C: That it comes from a caste system controlled culture is an historical fact. That it is manipulative is my opinion. It tacks on another subjectively claimed aspect to knowledge that does not resonate with me now. It sets up a hierarchy of levels of knowledge without any reference to an objective standard. I cannot come up with an example that makes any sense to me now. YMMV A:When I first became familiar with TM and started SCI this Knowledge is Structured in Consciousness statement made a lot of sense. And while I don't really think about, let alone practice, TM anymore I still understand what it means and it hardly seems elitist or let alone bogus or psychologically manipulative. Instead I understand it as a very simple and clean statement and I believe it - as far as it goes. C2: I am drawing out the implications that seem important to me. Can you give any examples of this that makes sense to you? In teaching the idea we used to say that when you are tired you don't think clearly. But this is bogus because although that
[FairfieldLife] Dr. Jaan Suurküla
Suurküla, in Finnish suuri(-)kylä (soorry-kuelae), big(-)village: http://tmhome.com/experiences/interview-dr-jaan-suurkula-leader-of-the-tm-movement-in-estonia/ http://tmhome.com/experiences/interview-dr-jaan-suurkula-leader-of-the-tm-movement-in-estonia/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
On 5/18/2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? According to what I've read, San Harris is a practicing Buddhist, so his experiences would be probably similar to those of other Buddhists - the realization that we are all connected in a non-dual relationship. It's a very powerful realization, one that the Buddha, the first historical yogin in India, described in some detail. I've already listed two books for you to read that would help you understand this, Buddhism Without Beliefs and confessions of a Buddhist Atheist. Buddhist Mindfullness practice is very similar to TM practice - without Hindu beliefs. pundister wrote: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences? Nicely said, now, shall we start with you trying this little experiment with the people you dislike because they find you uninteresting and boorish? Let's see how expansive and all-encompassing your mind can become for this lab test. Let's start with Jim and Judy - first exercise: list all the positive things you are able to appreciate about them and there has to be a minimum of 5 things per person. No sarcasm, only genuine expressed ability to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences. We'll wait - no doubt forever.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
No one is making the case for ranking anyone else, as a human being. This persistent whine of yours, to just level-set everything; there is no enlightenment, no witnessing, no comparative values, for anything is very tiresome. This allows you to hide your spiritual failings, your lack of experience, your lack of understanding of the teacher you worked for, briefly. If it is all the same, and no one is doing anything, then those truly stuck in the mud, such as yourself, are off the hook. Sorry, Charley. You have been involved in one spiritual pursuit or another for decades. And yet you are still deficient in the first step a seeker makes - becoming established in silence. It is too bad, but rather than trying to deny it, just admit it, and get on with your life. Holding up a false image of yourself must be an awful lot of work, pretending to be enlightened, while having no established Being - must be a nightmare for you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? Perhaps not... On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. You hear this every year, or at least I do. This idea that we've transitioned directly from winter to summer. I wonder if it is supported by facts? Right now we are having a cold spell, and everyone is talking about how crazy the weather is. I guess spring is perhaps characterized by 70 degree weather for a period of months. Maybe I can take the time to check it out looking at average temperatures over the years for the Midwest and see if they've changed over the decades. But even if I don't it is always curious to hear this same complaint every year around this time. Or at least it seems so. On the other hand, when you have a perfect spring day, it really seems to stand out, and people comment about it. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, can you say in a nutshell what about consciousness you think Maharishi got wrong? C: Thanks for asking Share. You will get more than a nutshell because this is a rich topic. The first fundamental problem for me is that he was shaping our view of our experiences from his techniques from a religious perspective created in a pre-scientific society. He made many unwarranted assumptions about the value of his techniques or what he was doing to our brains. Although they are highly addictive and pleasurable states of mind, I see no evidence that they improve anyone's thinking or creative processes. I see evidence of the opposite at least at higher levels of exposure. High exposure leads to an erosion of the ability to distinguish internal and external experiences. This causes a lot of problems that show up in claims here. I challenge his fundamental assumption that knowledge is structured in consciousness. This is epistemological bogus and psychologically manipulative. It comes from a non modern view of what knowledge is that had its birth in a caste system controlled culture. If you see what Jim is attempting to assume here by virtue of his self reported grandiose claims of experiences you can see where this belief leads socially. It has been rejected by all modern societies for good reason. A: I have been following this discussion with moderate interest. My highlighted statement is what I find relatively unsupported and just kind of thrown out there. It doesn't resonate with anything true for me. If you want, you could elaborate on it. C: That it comes from a caste system controlled culture is an historical fact. That it is manipulative is my opinion. It tacks on another subjectively claimed aspect to knowledge that does not resonate with me now. It sets up a hierarchy of levels
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. Thanks Curtis, I actually wrote this with just you in mind because, although I didn't know you during those brief years at MIU, I know you were there to experience the same winters and the same Springs so what I was attempting to capture was something you would have, chronologically, been present for as well, albeit within a different context. Writing praise from you is praise indeed so thank you. I'll try and keep the bar high (unless of course I need to come back to Earth to keep Bawee in his place).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
More in line with a western scholarly discernment of spirituality and spiritual [illumined/awakened] teachers, those: -Meditation teachers, -Subtle system teachers, -Ritam Bhara Pragya people; as somewhat analogous to western, 'Quietism', 'Piety' and 'Inspiration' in typology. -Buck In the west the categorization of spirituality technically falls in to 'Quietism', 'Piety' and 'Inspiration'. The Batgap interviews in a more scholarly way often fall nicely in to this typology when looked at this way. -Buck Those would be safer demarcations to categorize by that could have some scholarly basis. Though as started on the current Batgap categorizations, different from the spirituality typology of these three established categories, the channel-ers seem to fall over in to their own different category of 'spiritism'. That is fair and understandable. Rick should get someone much more scholarly [with credentials] to discern and categorize the interviewees spiritually if Rick is going to publish a categorical list like that and not just let some earnest friend go work on it. First, Rick really ought to pull the list from the Batgap page right now, back up and think about it some more before publishing some stoopid list that way it is growing now or he is looking at all kinds of legal troubles for Batgap and himself. Kindly, -Buck in the Dome Yes, I noticed the attempt at categorization on Batgap. It is lame. -Buck sharelong60 writes: Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Michael's posts have always looked just fine to me on the Web site. Maybe the problem is on your end, Buck. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is something [bad and unconventional] with you. -Buck Actually, they look fine until you go to reply and then when you reply and scroll down to the bottom where the send button is you have to traverse a whole mess of gobbledy gook (I'm sure there is a technical term for what this is, but it is long and cumbersome.) mjackson74 writes: I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them. On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM Dear MJ, what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats so badly to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you. Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come through to the list like yours do. You must have your own unique program. They are often a complete pain in the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that happens with you. Does not seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself may be allergic to your unique and negative content even though the internet is supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you are doing, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Non-TM Meditation Good for you.
Well, lookey there, mindfulness meditation heppin' military personnel rather than TM. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-05-meditation-stress-disorders-military-personnel.html Meditation training may help reduce stress disorders amo... Researchers from the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine and Naval Health Research Center have found that mindfulness training – a co... View on medicalxpress.com Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why did TM *really* become so popular (for a while)?
Yep, as many as 35,000 per month learned TM during the second Merv Wave. The numbers in the US are slowly picking up again. 8,000+ adults learned TM in 2012, which isn't even 10% of the Merv Wave numbers, but as Peter McWilliams told me he warned Maharishi about nearly 40 years ago: 35,000 per month isnt' sustainable, and the organization had to remake itself to survive with only a fraction of the number meditating. And it did. When Maharishi died, there were only a few hundred people learning TM in the USA. True, a lower price might have boosted that a bit, but the organizational structure wasn't built to survive on only a few hundred or few thousand initiations a year. Looking at the Maharishi Foundation figures since it was founded, the TMO appears to have found an island of stability, with the ability to scale upward a good bit within a few years, if needed, and then drop back down to maintenance mode if that is needed. L
[FairfieldLife] Casino blues
I went back to the slots, early last night, while wondering, if, early Saturday, the slots would be locked up. Yep, lost $100, in a couple of hours. They were even stalling paying out jackpots on the floor. A casino has to have a certain amount of cash reserves, and they must have been on a thin margin. In any case, the biggest payout I had last night was a tenth of what was going on, last time I went, which was much later in the evening. And the penny slots still aren't worth it. As they say, better luck next time! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why did TM *really* become so popular (for a while)?
Good stuff - I'd like to see it offered as an option on the cable, or electric bill, as just another utility - learn TM, installment payments, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Yep, as many as 35,000 per month learned TM during the second Merv Wave. The numbers in the US are slowly picking up again. 8,000+ adults learned TM in 2012, which isn't even 10% of the Merv Wave numbers, but as Peter McWilliams told me he warned Maharishi about nearly 40 years ago: 35,000 per month isnt' sustainable, and the organization had to remake itself to survive with only a fraction of the number meditating. And it did. When Maharishi died, there were only a few hundred people learning TM in the USA. True, a lower price might have boosted that a bit, but the organizational structure wasn't built to survive on only a few hundred or few thousand initiations a year. Looking at the Maharishi Foundation figures since it was founded, the TMO appears to have found an island of stability, with the ability to scale upward a good bit within a few years, if needed, and then drop back down to maintenance mode if that is needed. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
On 5/18/2014 3:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote :He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too Send in the clowns! The Popeye saying means something quite different from the Hebrew Biblical phrase. The I AM mention in the Bible is realted to the Being, a fist person derivation of the Tetragrammaton, while the Popeye saying is just silly talk, indicating that Popeye is just a mere human sailor. I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam. -- Popeye the Sailor I am that I Am. - Exodus 3:14 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
Same sort of thing in the SF Bay Area - The news makes a big deal out of unseasonably hot weather, the first half of May, every year. As far as I can recall, it is a regular feature of Spring - getting blazing hot temps (close to 100F) for a week or so, in early May. And yet every time it happens, it is the same story - what a surprise. 24 hour news cycle and all that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. You hear this every year, or at least I do. This idea that we've transitioned directly from winter to summer. I wonder if it is supported by facts? Right now we are having a cold spell, and everyone is talking about how crazy the weather is. I guess spring is perhaps characterized by 70 degree weather for a period of months. Maybe I can take the time to check it out looking at average temperatures over the years for the Midwest and see if they've changed over the decades. But even if I don't it is always curious to hear this same complaint every year around this time. Or at least it seems so. On the other hand, when you have a perfect spring day, it really seems to stand out, and people comment about it. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, can you say in a nutshell what about consciousness you think Maharishi got wrong? C: Thanks for asking Share. You will get more than a nutshell because this is a rich topic. The first fundamental problem for me is that he was shaping our view of our experiences from his techniques from a religious perspective created in a pre-scientific society. He made many unwarranted assumptions about the value of his techniques or what he was doing to our brains. Although they are highly addictive and pleasurable states of mind, I see no evidence that they improve anyone's thinking or creative processes. I see evidence of the opposite at least at higher levels of exposure. High exposure leads to an erosion of the ability to distinguish internal and external experiences. This causes a lot of problems that show up in claims here. I challenge his fundamental assumption that knowledge is structured in consciousness. This is epistemological bogus and psychologically manipulative. It comes from a non modern view of what knowledge is that had its birth in a caste system controlled culture. If you see what Jim is attempting to assume here by virtue of his self reported grandiose claims of experiences you can see where this belief leads socially. It has been rejected by all modern societies for good reason. A: I have been following this discussion with moderate
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Maybe Rick can obtain a portable EEG machine and see what the EEG coherence of each awkened person is like. My guess is that there are going to be distinct differences between traditions, and there will be, if you look closely enough, differences in experience as well. For example, TMers describe things in terms of Self. I've seen interviews where the person claims to have no self at all. This fits with the fact that TM enhances the connectivity between the self centers of the brain and the rest of the brain, while many practices actually disrupt it. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
I had trouble picking which tirade to respond to so i landed on this one by
default. The messages from you are pretty much the same and provide a nice
writing prompt. I will respond from two perspectives, from Maharishi's teaching
POV and my own.
You are attempting to launch an unpleasant campaign based on a few assumptions
that I believe are erroneous within the context of what Maharishi taught. I was
in a position to evaluate the experiences of many guys like you in my tenure at
the rollicking DC center as well as when I worked the door at the CNL in DC. I
don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective
experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that
Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you
provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and
claims match up. It is not the first time you have gone off on me and I'll bet
it wont be the last. Your projecting your authority issues onto Barry and me
don't surprise me at all. I suspect being judged by your behavior by movement
representatives was not a pleasant thing for you.
The second point is about what I will refer to as high contrast witnessing.
Maharishi spoke for hours on the topic of witnessing and I have heard hours
more participating in experience meetings with Maharishi and his experience
representatives like Nankashore. It is not my interest to sort out the mishash
you are making of his theory of the development of higher states of
consciousness, but I will point out that what your are presenting is not his
brand. Your perspective is all self-serving-Jim. You are trying to assume the
role of an authority for his system without having put in the time necessary to
represent what he taught accuratey. You are making it up as you go along. And
you are welcome to do so here as I am welcome to point it out.
For all my disagreements with Maharishi's conclusions, I recognize that he
presented a very specific teaching and POV. High contrast witnessing in his
system is a {hopefully} brief stage of development into more integrated styles
of functioning. Trying to use that as a bellwether test for anything is not a
part of Maharishi's teaching.That is all you and it is my opinion that you have
mislabeled something else.
Finally on a personal note. I do not accept Maharishi's perspective on human
development as authoritative, but I do recognize it as a specific POV. I have
come to different conclusions about many things in his teaching and my
observations are based on my experiences with his programs over many years. I
am not representing myself here as you are projecting on me. I represent my own
POV. Although I have pointed out factual errors with presentations of his
teaching you have made, my conclusions about what it all means are just my
personal opinions and anyone is welcome to challenge anything I say, but not my
right to make them here. Your behavior has been trollish and unpleasant, but in
the end, revealing.
Nuff said.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote :
I'd be embarrassed too, Curtis, if I were you, and looking for any possible
way for a washed up ex-TM teacher to try to get people to take him seriously,
again. This ain't about me, remember??
You and Barry, both, are spending an awful lot of time, trying to make me look
bad. Why not just both admit that neither is enlightened? That you speak with
the authority of fantasy? That you missed the boat spiritually?
All of these pages and pages both of you write, instead of simply admitting
your ego-bound bullshittery (thanks for that word - suits the situation,
perfectly).
Oh, well, time to go back to watching both of squirm. Sigh.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote :
Yes it was an interesting ride since I was trapped for two days setting up my
new laptop. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: One of the sexiest TM'ers?
I'm a much bigger fan of Sharon Isbin, which isn't surprising, given my background. Incidentally, Professor Isbin is 57 and has been doing TM for 41 years. It shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5XJ5Qo2SJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5XJ5Qo2SJk ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY1bRsCnv8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
I don't know, but there IS something odd about some messages that get posted,
or at least I see lots of extra stuff at the tail end of some messages and not
others.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Anybody have any idea what she means by old Yahoo format?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Buck, herein I'm responding from Neo rather than old yahoo format.
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:20 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is something [bad and unconventional] with
you. -Buck
mjackson74 writes:
I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them.
On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM
Dear MJ,
what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats
so badly
to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you.
Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come
through to the list like yours do. You must have your own
unique program. They are often a complete pain in
the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that
happens with you. Does not
seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself
may be
allergic to your unique and negative content even though the
internet is
supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you
are doing, -Buck
mjackson74writes:
On Sat, 5/17/14, Michael
Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:Subject: [FairfieldLife] Clay
and SilkTo: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, May 17, 2014,
8:39 PMyiv3762032787 #yiv3762032787
--yiv3762032787ygrp-mkp
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
Yes On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:38 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote : The burning bush was an experience, while absorbed in pure awareness. Were you there, or do you like reinterpreting everything through your own belief system too? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 1:04 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote : He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too I don't believe the Hebrews knew what he was trying to convey back then. But most people today don't know either. The burning bush that he used as a writing symbolism could be interpreted as the burnt offering to the Self or Yahweh, or the thoughts that are burnt by the mantra during meditation. Or maybe the eternal flame of unity consciousness? What do you think? I think you should stop making wild leaps in the dark and trying to find connections where there aren't any. Personally...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : snip ...I was attempting to capture was something you would have, chronologically, been present for as well, albeit within a different context. You nailed it, you sent me back there. Especially in the first two years the context was not so different. I used to run around the reservoir when it was warm and cross country ski around it when it was snowy. I often played my harmonica for the cows out there and they used to come to the fence pushing each other aside to get a look at this strange creature. When I think of those days I am usually transported to those long walks from the dining halls to the frats, close to nature day and night. (Remember how the red wing black birds used to dive bomb us on our paths through campus near the ponds?) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. Thanks Curtis, I actually wrote this with just you in mind because, although I didn't know you during those brief years at MIU, I know you were there to experience the same winters and the same Springs so what I was attempting to capture was something you would have, chronologically, been present for as well, albeit within a different context. Writing praise from you is praise indeed so thank you. I'll try and keep the bar high (unless of course I need to come back to Earth to keep Bawee in his place).
[FairfieldLife] A 'dog whistle' to the left: Geithner and Obama
By the libertarian Judge Andrew P. Napolitano http://www.foxnews.com/archive/andrew-napolitano http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/15/dog-whistle-to-left/?intcmp=obnetwork http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/15/dog-whistle-to-left/?intcmp=obnetwork
Re: [FairfieldLife] Roller Girl
On 5/17/2014 9:42 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Just a non-sequitur, sitting in this cafe, enjoying the sunny day. It is triggered by the vision of a young, tall, slim, and stunning Dutch girl pausing for a moment to adjust her breasts for maximum effect before continuing her rollerblading tour of Leiden. It's /almost always funny/ to read the comments made by men about women's breasts. Maybe the girl didn't give a shit what her boobs mean to men like Barry - maybe she was just adjusting her bra for comfort. /Most men/ don't have to tote around big mammary glands while doing sports. Maybe Barry should grow a pair. LoL! This thought just came to me while I was sitting at a sidewalk cafe on a sunny Sunday morning reading Barry's postings. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Buck, I probably won't forward your additional and very interesting comments to my friend. At this point, I'm leaving it up to Rick meister (-: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:23 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Maybe Rick can obtain a portable EEG machine and see what the EEG coherence of each awkened person is like. My guess is that there are going to be distinct differences between traditions, and there will be, if you look closely enough, differences in experience as well. For example, TMers describe things in terms of Self. I've seen interviews where the person claims to have no self at all. This fits with the fact that TM enhances the connectivity between the self centers of the brain and the rest of the brain, while many practices actually disrupt it. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Buck, a friend is working on Rick's categories at his request and I'll forward your comments to him. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Note to Rick, Conderning his interview with Sam Harris As you get to Sam Harris, he evidently may be a fantastic intellectual but don't just give him free air time without finding out more about his spiritual experience inside his constructs of thinking. -Buck in the Dome Om, Rick as you are proly experiencing in these Batgap interviews, someone becoming a 'guru' in culture can be different than someone abiding in spiritual experience. In a range and distribution of spiritual folks some can become 'gurus' by virtue of just scholarship alone without even much abiding experience. Others by virtue of ability to teach and talk spiritual technique, or others with having an abiding spiritual transformational effect for others by spiritual field affect. Sat-gurus it would seems would be good at combinations in all three: 1)scholarly, 2)knowledgable and good with techniques, and 3) with field effect of spiritual healing and help in Being. It would be nice to learn where Sam Harris in experience is in effect with this scale as he is becoming a famous talking head in culture. Some people evidently can become cultural gurus just by virtue of their intellectual understandings even without experience. Rick, invite Sam Harris to come to Fairfield to join us in our home of all Knowledge for the Batgap interview. That could be good for stirring the deeper discussion of spiritual experience and figure out if his is an abiding one. -Buck What is his spiritual experience around this that would allow him to be on Buddha at the Gas Pump anyway? punditster writes: Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide consider the gods to be sacred. But, these entities are not capable of offering Buddhists the saving grace, because they are not enlightened. A Buddhist believes in enlightenment - that's why they are referred to as Buddhists- enlightenment is not dependent on deities to instill the gnostic insight. There are clear parallels between the Vajrayana and the Vedanta point of view. It's not complicated. Buck, I think the key word here is Buddha- maybe Harris is a practicing Buddhist. Go figure. There are some who would label all Buddhists atheists, but that is not really correct. Buddhists admit that there are many entities in the universe that can't be seen by man. Millions of Buddhist worldwide
Re: [FairfieldLife] Yogatón Maharishi
My spanish isn't very good so I have to use Google Translate, but it looks like a mass Intro Lecture is being sponsored by the government of La Victoria District, Lima, not mass instruction in TM. Though someone like Carlos Slim could pay for all 150,000 citizens of the district age 10 and up to learn TM if he wanted: This Sunday May 18 at 2pm will be performed for the first time in Peru Yogatón Maharishi, a massive event free yoga practice open to the entire population of Lima, the Plaza Manco Capac La Victoria The event, organized by the Municipality of La Victoria and Maharishi Institute of Peru, seeks to bring peace and harmony to the district and reduce urban violence through the experience of inner peace of each person with the practice of Transcendental Meditation. The Yogatón marks the beginning of the teaching of transcendental meditation technique, for the entire population of the district. The Transcendental Meditation technique has proven to be a scientifically valid to eliminate stress, anxiety, stress and violence reduction in the collective consciousness method. Cities around the world where you have applied the technique practicing in groups, have managed to reduce crime by 20% and 25% improving their quality of life. The municipality has promoted the teaching of this technique in different schools in the district as the Republic of Panama School, César Vallejo, Labarthe, among others. If you want to know more about this event go to: Meditación Trascendental (MT) Perú http://www.perumeditacion.com and INSTITUTO DE MEDITACION TRASCENDENTAL - CHILE http://www.meditaciontrascendental.org. http://www.perumeditacion.com Meditación Trascendental (MT) Perú http://www.perumeditacion.com Meditación Trascendental (MT) es más eficaz en reducir el estrés que qualquier otra formas de meditación o técnica de relajación. Más de 600 estudios científ... View on www.perumed... http://www.perumeditacion.com Preview by Yahoo INSTITUTO DE MEDITACION TRASCENDENTAL - CHILE http://www.meditaciontrascendental.org Los beneficios de una Educacion Basada en la Conciencia - Libre de Estres y Conflictos - Meditación Trascendental y Vuelo Yoguico en Colegios y Universidades View on www.meditaciontrascendental.org http://www.meditaciontrascendental.org Preview by Yahoo Google Translate http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=esu=http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/prev=/search%3Fq%3DYogat%25C3%25B3n%2BMaharishi%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den Google Translate http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=esu=http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/prev=/search%3Fq%3DYogat%25C3%25B3n%2BMaharishi%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den From:Detect language—AfrikaansAlbanianArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChineseCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchGalicianGeorgianGe... View on translate.google.com http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=esu=http://laprimeraperu.pe/2014/05/17/meditacion-trascendental-en-la-victoria/prev=/search%3Fq%3DYogat%25C3%25B3n%2BMaharishi%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Hopefully they will have the good sense to say no. On Sun, 5/18/14, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Yogatón Maharishi To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 12:54 PM An entire district of Lima is being offered to be taught TM Meditación trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera Meditación trascendental en La Victoria - La Primera MAÑANA YOGATÓN View on laprimeraperu.pe
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moses and Consciousness
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 5/18/2014 3:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... wrote :He may have predated MMY by discussing consciousness as basis of all knowledge in the Bible passage: I AM WHO AM Popeye saw the wisdom of that too Send in the clowns! The Popeye saying means something quite different from the Hebrew Biblical phrase. The I AM mention in the Bible is realted to the Being, a fist person derivation of the Tetragrammaton, while the Popeye saying is just silly talk, indicating that Popeye is just a mere human sailor. I think this typo is perfect given the nature of Popeye's strength. I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam. -- Popeye the Sailor I am that I Am. - Exodus 3:14 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
LOL - good one! He is such a phony - The only reason Barry continuously brings up the level setting, is for fear his lack of progress, in any domain of his life, will be made obvious. What a little fake. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences? Nicely said, now, shall we start with you trying this little experiment with the people you dislike because they find you uninteresting and boorish? Let's see how expansive and all-encompassing your mind can become for this lab test. Let's start with Jim and Judy - first exercise: list all the positive things you are able to appreciate about them and there has to be a minimum of 5 things per person. No sarcasm, only genuine expressed ability to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences. We'll wait - no doubt forever.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Roller Girl
Excellent point, Richard. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 5/17/2014 9:42 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Just a non-sequitur, sitting in this cafe, enjoying the sunny day. It is triggered by the vision of a young, tall, slim, and stunning Dutch girl pausing for a moment to adjust her breasts for maximum effect before continuing her rollerblading tour of Leiden. It's almost always funny to read the comments made by men about women's breasts. Maybe the girl didn't give a shit what her boobs mean to men like Barry - maybe she was just adjusting her bra for comfort. Most men don't have to tote around big mammary glands while doing sports. Maybe Barry should grow a pair. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Why did TM *really* become so popular (for a while)?
On 5/17/2014 7:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: If Maharishi had never run into them, I would bet that almost no one on this forum would *be* on this forum, or would have ever heard of TM. How much would you be willing to wager? I learned TM before the Beatles even formed a band - 1964. I got on this forum in 1999 and I can't stand that John Lennon and Yoko Ono. In my opinion, the Beatles probably did more harm than good for the TM movement. They probably set the movement back at least twenty years. There's probably not a single informant on this newsgroup, except John Manning, who ever said they got into TM because of the Beatles. Now, TM is the most popular meditation technique on the entire planet. The term meditation and yoga have become just common household words, featured as the cover story on Time Magazine and on Oprah and Dr. Oz TV and reports in dozens of popular peer-reviewed scientific journals. Most young people don't even remember the Beatles anymore. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Judy, first of all, I read FFL posts in my yahoo email inbox. BUT...I have a
choice. I can either read and reply in what yahoo calls Basic format or in what
they call Full Featured. The latter is better for replying because then there
are not those long tails with huge blank spaces such as are seen in MJ's posts.
But I prefer the Basic format for reading and also for deleting. If one deletes
in Full Featured format, then all posts in a thread get deleted.
On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:32 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I don't know, but there IS something odd about some messages that get posted,
or at least I see lots of extra stuff at the tail end of some messages and not
others.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Anybody have any idea what she means by old Yahoo format?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Buck, herein I'm responding from Neo rather than old yahoo format.
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:20 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is
something [bad and unconventional] with you. -Buck
mjackson74 writes:
I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them.
On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM
Dear MJ,
what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats
so badly
to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you.
Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come
through to the list like yours do. You must have your own
unique program. They are often a complete pain in
the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that
happens with you. Does not
seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself
may be
allergic to your unique and negative content even though the
internet is
supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you
are doing, -Buck
mjackson74writes:
On Sat, 5/17/14, Michael
Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
wrote:Subject: [FairfieldLife] Clay
and SilkTo: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, May 17, 2014,
8:39 PMyiv3762032787 #yiv3762032787
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[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Richard, thanks for the info, I'll think about it. OTOH, I'm pretty accustomed to yahoo Neo and I really like yahoo mail. I think I'd be daunted by how google organizes emails. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:22 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 5/18/2014 5:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Buck, herein I'm doing what I think MJ is doing which is to respond from yahoo old format rather than from Neo. Next I'll respond from Neo. I'm guessing that MJ has the option too. Apparently MJ does not know how to use Neo - it's complicated, I guess. Go figure. You might try using Google Chrome and the free Google Mail. I know some older people are averse to learning new things - we often get set in our ways. I've had years of experience helping people use computer software. I've worked with faculty and students at a community college help desk. Then later, I was the manager of the faculty computer lab. One teacher, a Ph.D. professor, wanted to author and teach an online course in history, so I showed him how to upload a flat file to a web site using FTP. It's not complicated. But, he couldn't or didn't want to remember the steps. Every week he would come into the lab wanting to upload a file, and I had to show him how to do every time for two semesters. Go figure. One teacher, another Ph.D, didn't even know how to key in a school lesson using a text editor! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
Oh, so you're not talking about the Web site at all. I see.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Judy, first of all, I read FFL posts in my yahoo email inbox. BUT...I have a
choice. I can either read and reply in what yahoo calls Basic format or in what
they call Full Featured. The latter is better for replying because then there
are not those long tails with huge blank spaces such as are seen in MJ's posts.
But I prefer the Basic format for reading and also for deleting. If one deletes
in Full Featured format, then all posts in a thread get deleted.
On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:32 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I don't know, but there IS something odd about some messages that get
posted, or at least I see lots of extra stuff at the tail end of some messages
and not others.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote :
Anybody have any idea what she means by old Yahoo format?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Buck, herein I'm responding from Neo rather than old yahoo format.
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 10:20 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
No, MJ it is odd and unique. It is something [bad and unconventional] with
you. -Buck
mjackson74 writes:
I'm just using yahoo mail - blame it on them.
On Sun, 5/18/14, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 18, 2014, 2:55 AM
Dear MJ,
what ever did you do to repair your computer that it formats
so badly
to FFL? It has been a chronic [ongoing] problem with you.
Garbled and gaps in text. Nobody else has posts come
through to the list like yours do. You must have your own
unique program. They are often a complete pain in
the rear to respond to because of all the re-formatting that
happens with you. Does not
seem to matter which browser. Possibly the internet itself
may be
allergic to your unique and negative content even though the
internet is
supposed to be net-neutral. It must be something [bad] you
are doing, -Buck
mjackson74writes:
On Sat, 5/17/14, Michael
Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:Subject: [FairfieldLife] Clay
and SilkTo: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.comDate: Saturday, May 17, 2014,
8:39 PMyiv3762032787 #yiv3762032787
--yiv3762032787ygrp-mkp
{border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px0;padding:0
10px;}#yiv3762032787
#yiv3762032787ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;}
Re: [FairfieldLife] To Curtis, on witnessing
On 5/17/2014 3:09 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: A rap for Curtis, now that the Jim-bot has shouted himself out and probably fallen asleep... Maybe it's time to review the protocols for posting messages to news forums: 1. Don't include a person's real name in the subject line of your post. 2. If it's a personal note to someone in particular, switch to private email for your message. 3. Try to avoid sending flames or trying to pick a fight with other respondents. 4. Try to make yourself look good when posting text messages - take some pride in your work. 5. The use of blue text is usually reserved for hyper text links. 6. Don't send email to people in the middle of the night when they are trying to get some sleep. Thanks. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
My God, Ann, where do you find these graphics?! On Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:46 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? Perhaps not... On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : snip ...I was attempting to capture was something you would have, chronologically, been present for as well, albeit within a different context. You nailed it, you sent me back there. Especially in the first two years the context was not so different. I used to run around the reservoir when it was warm and cross country ski around it when it was snowy. I often played my harmonica for the cows out there and they used to come to the fence pushing each other aside to get a look at this strange creature. When I think of those days I am usually transported to those long walks from the dining halls to the frats, close to nature day and night. (Remember how the red wing black birds used to dive bomb us on our paths through campus near the ponds?) I was grateful for that little pond with its packed dirt walkway over the middle of it. There were water rats (muskrats?) in there and they would splish around when disturbed, coming off the small banks and swimming off into deeper, darker water. But you really knew when Spring was there because the frogs would start up and you could lie there in your pod hearing their riotous act as the warmer, sweeter air blew through those small slits that passed for windows just over the sink areas in those pod rooms. I liked the walk over the pond at night, it was like a little nature refuge. People often think of the flat agricultural landscape of Iowa as monotonous and boring but there were these wonderful enclaves of tree stands and marshy or wet depressions where nature abounded which I would investigate out riding. Lots of birds too. I remember being shocked that the guys in the grain elevator where I went to buy my horse feed just north of the campus would sit with bb guns killing the sparrows who came to eat the grain. Is life really that expendable? Anyway, glad you got a chance to discover the beauty of the campus and I like that image of the cows jostling to check you out with your harmonica. Funny how certain memories stick with us and seem important in moments - like getting to live the same event more than once - how cool is that? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : You bet. I rode every day. I walked and trotted and cantered along the soybean and cornfield perimeters. I rode in the blizzardy freezingness of those snowy winter days when the snowdrifts mounded up high enough that my horse had to jump through them in plunging strides just to get to the other side. I rode in a face mask, hat and with three layers of down vests and coats. I rode in the baking heat and on dirt roads that were cracked and red. I escaped to my place where no meditator ventured and it was a mere 4 miles from campus. Just Somerset and I. It was my private place. It was my way of connecting to the FF that existed before meditators flocked to such an unlikely place. It kept me grounded and I felt like I could become a bit more familiar with the farmers, what they did with/to the land and I felt privileged to have access to this. Perhaps it was what kept me from falling completely under the influence of what was going on at MIU or perhaps I was never a candidate for this anyway and that was why I sought daily refuge enduring the extreme elements of Iowa weather in summer and in winter. Remember how summer was all of a sudden there? One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. Overnight transformation - no Spring at all. I loved Iowa in all its bleakness and its strange overnight fecundity. C: Thanks Ann that made checking in totally worthwhile. Ann: One minute it was very cold and then you'd wake up one May morning and the birds were hysterical and the heat was mounting and the smell was of wet, rich soil. C:That was one of the most beautiful lines I have read anywhere Ann.You have set a new bar here. I was gunna write about the fireflies at night merging with the stars at the horizon line, but I can't bear to see anything I would write next to your post. I hope this comment marks this out so others don't miss it. Thanks Curtis, I actually wrote this with just you in mind because, although I didn't know you during those brief years at MIU, I know you were there to experience the same winters and the same Springs so what I was attempting to capture was something you would have, chronologically, been present for as well, albeit within a different context. Writing praise from you is praise indeed so thank you. I'll try and keep the bar high (unless of course I need to come back to Earth to keep Bawee in his place).
Re: [FairfieldLife] To Curtis, on witnessing
Richard, I added to your netiquette list. Go figure! 0. Don't snip so that something written by A looks like it was written by B! 1. Don't include a person's real name in the subject line of your post. 2. If it's a personal note to someone in particular, switch to private email for your message. 3. Try to avoid sending flames or trying to pick a fight with other respondents. 4. Try to make yourself look good when posting text messages - take some pride in your work. 5. The use of blue text is usually reserved for hyper text links. 6. Don't send email to people in the middle of the night when they are trying to get some sleep. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:11 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 5/17/2014 3:09 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: A rap for Curtis, now that the Jim-bot has shouted himself out and probably fallen asleep... Maybe it's time to review the protocols for posting messages to news forums: 1. Don't include a person's real name in the subject line of your post. 2. If it's a personal note to someone in particular, switch to private email for your message. 3. Try to avoid sending flames or trying to pick a fight with other respondents. 4. Try to make yourself look good when posting text messages - take some pride in your work. 5. The use of blue text is usually reserved for hyper text links. 6. Don't send email to people in the middle of the night when they are trying to get some sleep. Thanks. This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
Comments below... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. Actually, I was quoting something Barry wrote. In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. Yes, you see, I disagree with how Maharishi managed the path, whatever that means in this context. Barry apparently did too back when he wrote what I quoted, or at least was considering the possibility that Maharishi got it wrong. It goes without saying that people should be judged on their behavior regardless of their state of consciousness. But by the same token, their state of consciousness cannot be judged on the basis of their behavior, if one has nothing to do with the other. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
These days, I tend to believe that subjective claims of spiritual experience should ALWAYS be completely discounted and treated as irrelevant poppycock. The only thing that can possibly matter between human beings is how those human beings ACT. If one of them *were* enlightened and acted like a dick, he'd still be a dick. But for those who choose to pursue an interest in the *claimed* experiences of others (there are, after all, no other kind), I suspect that ideally that too should be done on the basis of equality rather than belief in a supposed hierarchy of experiences. The *equal* position is that NO ONE ON EARTH knows what any of these experiences mean or what causes them, much less where they rank. It's just a bunch of people having opinions, and often acting like dicks about them. So again my position is that we're back to relying on what people DO, not what they say. This does not sit well with long-term TMers who have been systematically taught spiritual elitism since the day they started TM, and taught that they can claim elite status just by hanging out a sign. Many of them simply cannot *conceive* of a world in which they are not as elite as they've been taught to believe they are and claim they are. From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Curtis, first I'd ask you to operationally define *being considered a dentist.* Does it mean clients go to that so called dentist and let him or her work on their teeth? If it does, then I'd say that those probably toothless clients need to find another system of determining who is qualified to work successfully on their teeth! By successfully, I mean the dentist helps the client keep teeth in their head. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:58 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Roller Girl
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 5/17/2014 9:42 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Just a non-sequitur, sitting in this cafe, enjoying the sunny day. It is triggered by the vision of a young, tall, slim, and stunning Dutch girl pausing for a moment to adjust her breasts for maximum effect before continuing her rollerblading tour of Leiden. It's almost always funny to read the comments made by men about women's breasts. Maybe the girl didn't give a shit what her boobs mean to men like Barry - maybe she was just adjusting her bra for comfort. Most men don't have to tote around big mammary glands while doing sports. Maybe Barry should grow a pair. LoL! This thought just came to me while I was sitting at a sidewalk cafe on a sunny Sunday morning reading Barry's postings. Go figure. Nice one Richard. Now I'm going to try a little experiment. Let's see how it flies: Enjoying a drink at the sidewalk cafe here in Victoria I glanced up and was momentarily astounded by the vision of this handsome hunk of a guy - all sinew and glistening with a fine sheen of sweat on forearms and thighs. And then what does he do, God help me, he reached down and adjusted that manly package of his, you know the one, just between his legs before mounting his bicycle and continuing on his way. This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
[FairfieldLife] Majorca Journal
http://majorcajournal.blogspot.com/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 6:22 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commenting on enlightenment, without a clue So it always surprises me when I hear tales of people rounding and doing lots of physical labor. I once spent a month in Livingston manor rounding and running a jackhammer the rest of the day. Interesting contrast. http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3920196/grpspId=1705077076/msgId=383690/stime=1400282673 http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407Ea=10001310322279js=noresp=imgcf10=CP
[FairfieldLife] Eckhart Tolle not enlightened by TM standards
I ran into a brief quote by Tolle about dreamless sleep, so I tracked down a book of his and found this passage: Dreamless Sleep You take a journey into the Unmanifested every night when you enter the phase of deep dreamless sleep. You merge with the Source. You draw from it the vital energy that sustains you for a while when you return to the manifested, the world of separate forms. This energy is much more vital than food: Man does not live by bread alone. But in dreamless sleep, you don't go into it consciously. Although the bodily functions are still operating, you” no longer exist in that state. Can you imagine what it would be like to go into dreamless sleep with full consciousness? It is impossible to imagine it, because that state has no content. -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, page 85. It seems obvious to me that he knows not what witnessing sleep is. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Eckhart Tolle not enlightened by TM standards
Lawson, I heard second hand that Maharishi made a distinction between an enlightened man and an enlightened teacher. The enlightened man maybe popped into enlightenment while eating a strawberry. He then proceeds to teach the strawberry eating technique. OTOH an enlightened teacher can see where the seeker is and the entire path and so can effectively guide the seeker fuller and richer living. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:29 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I ran into a brief quote by Tolle about dreamless sleep, so I tracked down a book of his and found this passage: Dreamless Sleep You take a journey into the Unmanifested every night when you enter the phase of deep dreamless sleep. You merge with the Source. You draw from it the vital energy that sustains you for a while when you return to the manifested, the world of separate forms. This energy is much more vital than food: Man does not live by bread alone. But in dreamless sleep, you don't go into it consciously. Although the bodily functions are still operating, you” no longer exist in that state. Can you imagine what it would be like to go into dreamless sleep with full consciousness? It is impossible to imagine it, because that state has no content. -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, page 85. It seems obvious to me that he knows not what witnessing sleep is. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus. I've been saying this the whole time here. I completely agree. Of course, one would also have to define bad behavior beyond the obvious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : My God, Ann, where do you find these graphics?! Heh, maybe a better question is who creates these things for me to find? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:46 AM, awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? Perhaps not... On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
[FairfieldLife] Rick Archer: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 05/17/2014
blog updates from Buddha at the Gas Pump https://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/star.gif If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much appreciated and needed. Donate button on http://batgap.com http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=4336578a22e=16e07f16fe . published 05/17/2014 Rick Archer, Interviewed by Fax Gilbert http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=6c70b22932e=16e07f16fe May 16, 2014 08:40 am | Rick Fax and Sharon Gilbert were among my first guests on BatGap (interview here). Recently, Fax has been interviewing a few people in Fairfield, Iowa under the auspices of Fairfield’s Waking Down group. In this interview, I neglected to adequately express … Continue reading http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=f8b15b3d6fe=16e07f16fe → The post Rick Archer, Interviewed by Fax Gilbert http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=bd13c4b02fe=16e07f16fe appeared first on Buddha at the Gas Pump http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=cff69fab4ae=16e07f16fe . http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/images/mime-type/mp3.png 230_rick_archer_fax_gilbert.mp3 http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=78a95abcefe=16e07f16fe 82.9 MB comments http://batgap.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=d0db0b0df2e=16e07f16fe | read more http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=5ff07a23cde=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=59b5e030bae=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=33208162b2e=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=1e3442b3d5e=16e07f16fe http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/frond.gif Elsewhere * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=6480758f26e=16e07f16fe Visit My Blog * http://us2.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=15fb46da37e=16e07f16fe Share This with a friend * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=79b401c4aae=16e07f16fe Follow me on Twitter * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=a9efc20cf7e=16e07f16fe RSS feed http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/shim.gif Regular announcement of new interviews posted at http://batgap.com. Buddha at the Gas Pump 1108 South B Street Fairfield, Iowa 52556 Add us to your address book http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/vcard?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=b0e5d0d53a Copyright (C) 2014 Buddha at the Gas Pump All rights reserved. http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletterutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=monkey_rewardsaid=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5afl=1 http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=15fb46da37e=16e07f16fe
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Comments below... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. Actually, I was quoting something Barry wrote. C: In the context of what I wrote. His quote has nothing to do with what I stated. They are separate issues in Maharishi's system In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. Yes, you see, I disagree with how Maharishi managed the path, whatever that means in this context. C: Practically it means that he tried to keep unstable people off courses. J:Barry apparently did too back when he wrote what I quoted, or at least was considering the possibility that Maharishi got it wrong. C: Again, they are not the same context, you are mixing them up. J: It goes without saying that people should be judged on their behavior regardless of their state of consciousness. But by the same token, their state of consciousness cannot be judged on the basis of their behavior, if one has nothing to do with the other. C: I think there is an imprecision terms causing this discrepancy. There is a more ultimate sense that it was taught that behavior is uncoupled from behavior. I believe this teaching was to get the gurus off the hook for bad behavior. But int he context I was writing about people's internal state was not evaluated on a scale of enlightenment, but on roughness and instability which is one of the biggest criteria for evaluating people for courses. It is self reported internal states (which were also evaluated) combined with behavior (through the filter of roughness and stability which often translated into compliance) that is how the movement evaluates members. Maharishi's teaching is vague and self contradictory in the case of the enlightened. He supported both views depending on convenience and how it served him personally. The Vedic scriptures also present contradictory teachings about this.It was written by guys who, not surprisingly, were the beneficiaries of this contradiction. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Eckhart Tolle not enlightened by TM standards
In this case, whatever Eckart Tolle is talking about, is ipso facto not CC, let alone GC or UC. Of course, some may argue that his awakening is more profound than those baby forms of awakening defined in TM practice, and certainly, the entire American Buddhist community other than a few Zen and Ch'an practitioners, seems to celebrate the mindfulness craze which leads to a more fragmented style of brain fun ctioning where self-centers and the rest of the brain are not well-connected, but oh well. To each his own, for some operational definition of his. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Lawson, I heard second hand that Maharishi made a distinction between an enlightened man and an enlightened teacher. The enlightened man maybe popped into enlightenment while eating a strawberry. He then proceeds to teach the strawberry eating technique. OTOH an enlightened teacher can see where the seeker is and the entire path and so can effectively guide the seeker fuller and richer living. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:29 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I ran into a brief quote by Tolle about dreamless sleep, so I tracked down a book of his and found this passage: Dreamless Sleep You take a journey into the Unmanifested every night when you enter the phase of deep dreamless sleep. You merge with the Source. You draw from it the vital energy that sustains you for a while when you return to the manifested, the world of separate forms. This energy is much more vital than food: Man does not live by bread alone. But in dreamless sleep, you don't go into it consciously. Although the bodily functions are still operating, you” no longer exist in that state. Can you imagine what it would be like to go into dreamless sleep with full consciousness? It is impossible to imagine it, because that state has no content. -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, page 85. It seems obvious to me that he knows not what witnessing sleep is. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Share, try not to be such a dimwit. For dentists, there is an actual certification process, and licensing boards that one can contact to see whether they are licensed and have a good reputation. There is no such thing in the world of self-proclaimed spiritual teachers or those *claiming* to be enlightened. And yet, people like you *believe* them when they make those claims, and go to them -- usually paying fairly large sums of money for the privilege -- and rely on them to keep your spiritual teeth straight. Doesn't that strike you as kinda DUMB? From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types Curtis, first I'd ask you to operationally define *being considered a dentist.* Does it mean clients go to that so called dentist and let him or her work on their teeth? If it does, then I'd say that those probably toothless clients need to find another system of determining who is qualified to work successfully on their teeth! By successfully, I mean the dentist helps the client keep teeth in their head. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:58 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, first I'd ask you to operationally define *being considered a dentist.* Does it mean clients go to that so called dentist and let him or her work on their teeth? C: It means being certified by a board who looks after the public's welfare in principle. Spiritual teachers have this within certain systems but lack it in the new age free for all that exists today. In Maharishi's system there is an obvious and I think odd lack of any certification for higher states of consciousness. The guys I saw proclaimed their enlightenment got bounced pretty fast. I find that odd for an organization that claimed to be the fastest system for getting you there. S: If it does, then I'd say that those probably toothless clients need to find another system of determining who is qualified to work successfully on their teeth! By successfully, I mean the dentist helps the client keep teeth in their head. C: Clear for teeth, not so clear for internal states right? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:58 AM, curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Eckhart Tolle not enlightened by TM standards
Lawson, I think there are a lot of enlightened people around these days, including Tolle. But I also think that there are very few enlightened teachers. WRT to taking their theories and or practices to heart, I mostly go by how his or her energy feels to me. If they feel ungrounded, unintegrated, coming mainly from intellect, then I continue on my way. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:41 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In this case, whatever Eckart Tolle is talking about, is ipso facto not CC, let alone GC or UC. Of course, some may argue that his awakening is more profound than those baby forms of awakening defined in TM practice, and certainly, the entire American Buddhist community other than a few Zen and Ch'an practitioners, seems to celebrate the mindfulness craze which leads to a more fragmented style of brain fun ctioning where self-centers and the rest of the brain are not well-connected, but oh well. To each his own, for some operational definition of his. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Lawson, I heard second hand that Maharishi made a distinction between an enlightened man and an enlightened teacher. The enlightened man maybe popped into enlightenment while eating a strawberry. He then proceeds to teach the strawberry eating technique. OTOH an enlightened teacher can see where the seeker is and the entire path and so can effectively guide the seeker fuller and richer living. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:29 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I ran into a brief quote by Tolle about dreamless sleep, so I tracked down a book of his and found this passage: Dreamless Sleep You take a journey into the Unmanifested every night when you enter the phase of deep dreamless sleep. You merge with the Source. You draw from it the vital energy that sustains you for a while when you return to the manifested, the world of separate forms. This energy is much more vital than food: Man does not live by bread alone. But in dreamless sleep, you don't go into it consciously. Although the bodily functions are still operating, you” no longer exist in that state. Can you imagine what it would be like to go into dreamless sleep with full consciousness? It is impossible to imagine it, because that state has no content. -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, page 85. It seems obvious to me that he knows not what witnessing sleep is. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
A note: witnessing ala the research on Cosmic Consciousness is a state that appears to be highly unusual. It is associated with coherent alpha-1 EEG in the frontal lobes of the brain. There's no way that I am aware of to induce coherent alpha-1 EEG in someone. Researchers have induced higher levels of gamma EEG during dream-sleep, leading to induced lucid dreaming, but no-one, nowhere has ever induced coherent alpha-1 EEG that I am aware of. And witnessing of the type you are talking about is likely the dissociative disorder that all modern forms of meditation other than TM seem to induce: a functional disconnect between the self-centers of the brain and the rest of the brain. We TMers celebrate our highly stable sense of self as a sign of growing enlightenment. Everyone else either ignores the existence of this unique aspect of TM practice, or denounces it as wrong/bad/stupid/worthless/etc. OTOH, a few Zen and Ch'an studies have also found this kind of pattern, but only a few. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Curtis and turq, yes I am aware that there are boards for certifying dentists. I ignored that path of discussion because there isn't such a system for certifying spiritual teachers. My main point is that individuals need to exercise due diligence. In the absence of a certifying board, one can go by one's own experience. However, since that might lead to lost teeth and a lot of pain, one can also, in the absence of a certifying board, ask one's friend's. Common sense helps in these matters (-: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:50 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, first I'd ask you to operationally define *being considered a dentist.* Does it mean clients go to that so called dentist and let him or her work on their teeth? C: It means being certified by a board who looks after the public's welfare in principle. Spiritual teachers have this within certain systems but lack it in the new age free for all that exists today. In Maharishi's system there is an obvious and I think odd lack of any certification for higher states of consciousness. The guys I saw proclaimed their enlightenment got bounced pretty fast. I find that odd for an organization that claimed to be the fastest system for getting you there. S: If it does, then I'd say that those probably toothless clients need to find another system of determining who is qualified to work successfully on their teeth! By successfully, I mean the dentist helps the client keep teeth in their head. C: Clear for teeth, not so clear for internal states right? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 9:58 AM, curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: To Share: But what if the criteria to be considered a dentist was just to put a sign in front of your house that said dentist? To Barry: I resonate with what you wrote and that is the direction of my thinking on altered states of consciousness of all kinds. We have to drop the traditionally informed pretense that we know what these experiences mean. On the other hand there is also an need to acknowledge that they do exist and might be interesting, especially if we could get more date from outside tight belief system interpretations. I am hoping that Sam's book in the fall will be along these lines and open up this discussion to a broader audience. Buck doesn't know anything about what Sam's experiences are. This elitist assumption is one of the barriers to discussing experiences in a broader, and I believe, more useful context. I don't deny that long term TMers will have their contribution to this if they can get out of the us verses them conditioned response. Maharishi did his group a real disservice in the long run my cultivating that elitist arrogance. It was a short term plus for him in group control but he may have doomed this small group to obscurity in the future. I also believe that our language is really getting in the way in describing subjective experience. There was always the claim that Sanskrit was better suited for these discussions because it was built on people making them. I don't know if I believe that but I do like the ideal of creating better, more precise terms to discuss internal experiences. It will not be easy. Too often in the movement a sort of word salad is thrown out and people knowingly nod their heads that this explains what they were experiencing. We can do better than that kind of poetic self-congratulatory social reinforcement. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
Lawson, you are trying to define the *subjective* experience of witnessing in terms of a few isolated measurements taken by TM researchers who were looking for some way to prove the dogma they had been taught to believe. Researchers very much CAN induce witnessing in a lab in terms of subjective experience, both during waking and during dreaming. If the person is experiencing it, even if they didn't display the same brain wave patterns as the TM subjects did, they're still experiencing it. Who is to say that *their* brain wave patterns might not be even more interesting? Certainly not the TM researchers, who simply aren't *interested* in studying anything that can't be used to sell TM. Besides, as I've pointed out, the *only* reason these TM researchers are looking into it in the first place is because they believed Maharishi when he told them that witnessing was meaningful in terms of some kind of higher state of consciousness. What if it has NOTHING TO DO with any kind of higher SoC, and is just a brain fart of some kind. All of your TM subjects are in that case just sitting around congratulating themselves for brain flatulence. From: lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 5:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing A note: witnessing ala the research on Cosmic Consciousness is a state that appears to be highly unusual. It is associated with coherent alpha-1 EEG in the frontal lobes of the brain. There's no way that I am aware of to induce coherent alpha-1 EEG in someone. Researchers have induced higher levels of gamma EEG during dream-sleep, leading to induced lucid dreaming, but no-one, nowhere has ever induced coherent alpha-1 EEG that I am aware of. And witnessing of the type you are talking about is likely the dissociative disorder that all modern forms of meditation other than TM seem to induce: a functional disconnect between the self-centers of the brain and the rest of the brain. We TMers celebrate our highly stable sense of self as a sign of growing enlightenment. Everyone else either ignores the existence of this unique aspect of TM practice, or denounces it as wrong/bad/stupid/worthless/etc. OTOH, a few Zen and Ch'an studies have also found this kind of pattern, but only a few. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Graphing the Illumined Batgap interviewees by types
Ann, I just assumed these graphics are produced by that sweaty stud muffin on the motorcycle (-: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:42 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : My God, Ann, where do you find these graphics?! Heh, maybe a better question is who creates these things for me to find? On Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:46 AM, awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, good point and I agree that we're all the same on some level. But if I have a toothache for example, I'd rather consult with a good dentist rather than a good podiatrist. My bad? Perhaps not... On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:53 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:33 AM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In range and distribution of illumined Batgap interviewees by types, just throwing these Batgap illumined people interviewed thus far on a scatter graph by their experience and spiritual affect on others, it seems observable that some of the awakened are more proactive in affect as teachers, some are long time practiced at helping others spiritually and/or transformational for others just by being of a field effect of presence. Some of them are teachers in nature of character, while some may glow in the closet and watch sort of like Harri by experience was for so long. Others transformational in effect like a Janet Sussman also from childhood or Connie Huebner from younger or Ammachi from way back, yet different from glowing in the closet each in their lives have been engaged teaching in formats with spiritual experience, techniques and scholarship to be of help to others for much of their lives, Batgap is a fabulous oral archive around this range of spiritual possibility within humanity based on a scale of abiding experience and spiritual transformational affect. It is useful for parsing to see them in a range and distribution of, Teachers -Gurus -Sat Gurus -Jagad Gurus by scale of transformational affect. Just as a question, wouldn't it be more interesting to consider the possibility that everyone Rick has ever interviewed is Just Another Human Being, whose experiences are in no way any better or higher than any others? In other words, it seems to me that Buck is still arguing for the elitism approach, trying to categorize these folks into higher/lower and better/worse pigeonholes so that people like him can look up to some of them and look down on others. Wouldn't it be more...uh, dare I say it...enlightened to consider them all at exactly the same level -- just human beings having an opinion based on their individual interpretations of their respective subjective experiences?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Clay and Silk
I was looking at one of the Yahoo Groups I get via email the other day and all the posts were listed as from the email of that group. It was still normal on the web site. It seemed only to be a one day occurrence however as it was back to normal the following day. On 05/18/2014 06:22 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: On 5/18/2014 5:43 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Buck, herein I'm doing what I think MJ is doing which is to respond from yahoo old format rather than from Neo. Next I'll respond from Neo. I'm guessing that MJ has the option too. Apparently MJ does not know how to use Neo - it's complicated, I guess. Go figure. You might try using Google Chrome and the free Google Mail. I know some older people are averse to learning new things - we often get set in our ways. I've had years of experience helping people use computer software. I've worked with faculty and students at a community college help desk. Then later, I was the manager of the faculty computer lab. One teacher, a Ph.D. professor, wanted to author and teach an online course in history, so I showed him how to upload a flat file to a web site using FTP. It's not complicated. But, he couldn't or didn't want to remember the steps. Every week he would come into the lab wanting to upload a file, and I had to show him how to do every time for two semesters. Go figure. One teacher, another Ph.D, didn't even know how to key in a school lesson using a text editor! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Casino blues
Some friends had a business of making the computerized slot machines years ago. They needed to switch the interfaces on them from serial to USB so they had me look at that project. The coding was in some off beat language but their company folded before the project got started. On 05/18/2014 07:09 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I went back to the slots, early last night, while wondering, if, early Saturday, the slots would be locked up. Yep, lost $100, in a couple of hours. They were even stalling paying out jackpots on the floor. A casino has to have a certain amount of cash reserves, and they must have been on a thin margin. In any case, the biggest payout I had last night was a tenth of what was going on, last time I went, which was much later in the evening. And the penny slots still aren't worth it. As they say, better luck next time! :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Roller Girl
For those who seem intent on turning my reportage into some kind of horribly misogynist failing, I shall expand upon what I meant by adjusting her breasts for maximum effect. The lady in question was wearing a tight tank top with no bra. She was stopped looking into the window of a shop, using it as a mirror before leaving the uncrowded area of the street we were on and heading into the more crowded area, and was obviously checking her appearance to make sure it projected the effect she was after. Towards this end, she carefully reached inside her tank top and lifted each boob so that it achieved maximum perkiness, and then just as carefully pinched and twisted her nipples until they became erect. Then she regarded the effect in the window, smiled, and rolled on, obviously pleased with the result. :-) :-) :-) I can understand how some of the women on this forum might not understand such youthful pride of ownership. Chances are at their age the phrase adjusting their breasts is more likely to mean having to be careful not to get them caught in your belt. :-) :-) :-) From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 4:42 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Roller Girl Just a non-sequitur, sitting in this cafe, enjoying the sunny day. It is triggered by the vision of a young, tall, slim, and stunning Dutch girl pausing for a moment to adjust her breasts for maximum effect before continuing her rollerblading tour of Leiden. I watched in awe, and this song magically began playing in my head. I dutifully pass it along... Dire Straits - Skateaway With Lyrics (Live On Fridays) Dire Straits - Skateaway With Lyrics (Live On Fridays) View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
Ann wrote: Of course, one would also have to define bad behavior beyond the obvious. Share replies: It's an interesting exercise when you consider that in the Gita Lord Krishna was basically telling Arjuna to kill people. But to do so established in Being. I think the ultimate consequence of such a teaching is to encourage each seeker to decide for himself or herself what is acceptable behavior and what is not and to live accordingly. And I think this is a sign of a fully developed human. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:36 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus. I've been saying this the whole time here. I completely agree. Of course, one would also have to define bad behavior beyond the obvious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
Of course, you may be right. On the other hand, modern science is very much materialistic. If two different physical states give rise to the same self-report, modern science calls them two different physical states that happen to give rise to the same self-report, not two different ways of arriving at the same place. The map is not the territory. The finger pointing at the moon shouldn't be confused with the moon itself. I can be standing the street corner Hollywood and Vine in some other city besides Hollywood. I conce met a couple in the UK who wryly noted they had once gotten a great tourism package to Nashville. Imagine their disappointment when they gotg of the plane and discovered that it was Nashville, Florida, not Nashville, Tennessee... Of course, one man's Florida is another man's Tennessee. It all depends on what you deem is important. But to assert that it is commonsensical (for something along those lines is how I perceive you to be claiming) that as long as the same words can be used to describe two physically distinct objects or states, that they are both the same, is to present something that runs counter to what I consider to be a valid perspective. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Lawson, you are trying to define the *subjective* experience of witnessing in terms of a few isolated measurements taken by TM researchers who were looking for some way to prove the dogma they had been taught to believe. Researchers very much CAN induce witnessing in a lab in terms of subjective experience, both during waking and during dreaming. If the person is experiencing it, even if they didn't display the same brain wave patterns as the TM subjects did, they're still experiencing it. Who is to say that *their* brain wave patterns might not be even more interesting? Certainly not the TM researchers, who simply aren't *interested* in studying anything that can't be used to sell TM. Besides, as I've pointed out, the *only* reason these TM researchers are looking into it in the first place is because they believed Maharishi when he told them that witnessing was meaningful in terms of some kind of higher state of consciousness. What if it has NOTHING TO DO with any kind of higher SoC, and is just a brain fart of some kind. All of your TM subjects are in that case just sitting around congratulating themselves for brain flatulence. From: LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 5:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing A note: witnessing ala the research on Cosmic Consciousness is a state that appears to be highly unusual. It is associated with coherent alpha-1 EEG in the frontal lobes of the brain. There's no way that I am aware of to induce coherent alpha-1 EEG in someone. Researchers have induced higher levels of gamma EEG during dream-sleep, leading to induced lucid dreaming, but no-one, nowhere has ever induced coherent alpha-1 EEG that I am aware of. And witnessing of the type you are talking about is likely the dissociative disorder that all modern forms of meditation other than TM seem to induce: a functional disconnect between the self-centers of the brain and the rest of the brain. We TMers celebrate our highly stable sense of self as a sign of growing enlightenment. Everyone else either ignores the existence of this unique aspect of TM practice, or denounces it as wrong/bad/stupid/worthless/etc. OTOH, a few Zen and Ch'an studies have also found this kind of pattern, but only a few. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Eckhart Tolle not enlightened by TM standards
I simply don't consider him enlightened, at least within the parameters that MMY laid down. Of course, as I pointed out, MMY might be wrong, but then again Eckhart Tolle may simply be deluding himself as well. The gap between thoughts that we call pure consciousness during TM isn't just between thoughts as verbalizations, but a gap devoid of perception of anything and everything. And here's a great example of Tolle's attitude towards things: Dissolving Ordinary Unconsciousness So how can we be free of this affliction? Make it conscious. Observe the many ways in which unease, discontent, and tension arise within you through unnecessary judgment, resistance to what is, and denial of the Now. Anything unconscious dissolves when you shine the light of consciousness on it. Once you know how to dissolve ordinary unconsciousness, the light of your presence will shine brightly, and it will be much easier to deal with deep unconsciousness whenever you feel its gravitational pull. However, ordinary unconsciousness may not be easy to detect initially because it is so normal. Make it a habit to monitor your mental-emotional state through self-observation. It's hard to get further from TM program for enlightenment than that. Meditate and chop wood becomes mediate while chopping wood. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Lawson, I think there are a lot of enlightened people around these days, including Tolle. But I also think that there are very few enlightened teachers. WRT to taking their theories and or practices to heart, I mostly go by how his or her energy feels to me. If they feel ungrounded, unintegrated, coming mainly from intellect, then I continue on my way. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:41 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: In this case, whatever Eckart Tolle is talking about, is ipso facto not CC, let alone GC or UC. Of course, some may argue that his awakening is more profound than those baby forms of awakening defined in TM practice, and certainly, the entire American Buddhist community other than a few Zen and Ch'an practitioners, seems to celebrate the mindfulness craze which leads to a more fragmented style of brain fun ctioning where self-centers and the rest of the brain are not well-connected, but oh well. To each his own, for some operational definition of his. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Lawson, I heard second hand that Maharishi made a distinction between an enlightened man and an enlightened teacher. The enlightened man maybe popped into enlightenment while eating a strawberry. He then proceeds to teach the strawberry eating technique. OTOH an enlightened teacher can see where the seeker is and the entire path and so can effectively guide the seeker fuller and richer living. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:29 AM, LEnglish5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I ran into a brief quote by Tolle about dreamless sleep, so I tracked down a book of his and found this passage: Dreamless Sleep You take a journey into the Unmanifested every night when you enter the phase of deep dreamless sleep. You merge with the Source. You draw from it the vital energy that sustains you for a while when you return to the manifested, the world of separate forms. This energy is much more vital than food: Man does not live by bread alone. But in dreamless sleep, you don't go into it consciously. Although the bodily functions are still operating, you” no longer exist in that state. Can you imagine what it would be like to go into dreamless sleep with full consciousness? It is impossible to imagine it, because that state has no content. -Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, page 85. It seems obvious to me that he knows not what witnessing sleep is. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing
So you're perfectly OK with someone else deciding for him or herself whether it is appropriate behavior, and living accordingly? Even though he or she could be deliberating whether to kill you? People who say dumb stuff like what you said about the Gita and its lessons are always thinking about the out it gives them for their *own* bad behavior. They never seem to look at it the other way and think that some blue-skinned guy might be telling his followers to kill *them*. I presume that being killed by someone established in Being is just fine with you. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis, on witnessing Ann wrote: Of course, one would also have to define bad behavior beyond the obvious. Share replies: It's an interesting exercise when you consider that in the Gita Lord Krishna was basically telling Arjuna to kill people. But to do so established in Being. I think the ultimate consequence of such a teaching is to encourage each seeker to decide for himself or herself what is acceptable behavior and what is not and to live accordingly. And I think this is a sign of a fully developed human. On Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:36 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Just for da record... I don't need to go into any detail here but just can mention that subjective experiences were never evaluated separated from behavior. I believe that Maharishi got that right. I don't need to say any more about that because you provided more than enough information for people to judge if your behavior and claims match up. What if what has been described as enlightenment in the past has *absolutely nothing* to do with personality or behavior? What if, just as those who described it in the past have said, it is purely about consciousness, having the ability to directly perceive eternality 24/7, and that ability has *absolutely nothing* to do with what is going on simultaneously in terms of personality and behavior? --Barry Wright, awhile back on alt.m.t You'd never know Barry had ever entertained this perspective the way he links behavior and enlightenment these days, would you? I happen to favor this understanding of enlightenment myself, one of Barry's and my rare points of agreement. C: You are mixing up levels here. In traditional systems it is emphasized that there is a wide range of possible behaviors for the so called enlightened. I am referring to how Maharishi managed the path. The issue is confused further by Jim self proclaiming himself as enlightened within a system that has broken down. The inmates are now running the TM prison. But in the context of the movement itself there would be no recognition of Jim's self proclaimed status. Authority in the organization is gained through time served or lots of cash, not subjective claims for experience. In my view, because I do not assume that discrete states of enlightenment exist or that it means anything concerning how the world works, I am judging people just on their words and deeds. No one gets an enlightenment pass for bad behavior including the so called gurus. I've been saying this the whole time here. I completely agree. Of course, one would also have to define bad behavior beyond the obvious.
