[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that purity must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 article in the Fairfield Weekly reader: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic. I can't believe that Hagelin said the following: Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- activities that began during the Carter administration and that continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future generations. If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate these shady practises, Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that purity must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 article in the Fairfield Weekly reader: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic. I can't believe that Hagelin said the following: Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- activities that began during the Carter administration and that continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future generations. If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate these shady practises, Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin? Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that purity must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 article in the Fairfield Weekly reader: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic. I can't believe that Hagelin said the following: Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- activities that began during the Carter administration and that continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future generations. If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate these shady practises, Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin? ** Well, Mr. Peanut, our beloved Prez Jimmy (my sister was a faith- healer) Carter, did have a hard-on against TM and did task the intel community to get the dirt on the TMO, but given the near-total incompetence of American intel agencies (WMD was a slam-dunk in Iraq said the CIA), I'm sure that nothing harmful was ever generated by these efforts, which were undoubtedly abandoned quickly after peanut head left office (Reagan and his VP Bush were both friendly to the Beach Boys (Reagan lived next door to the Beach Boys in Bel Air, a rich section of LA), two of who were TM teachers, which makes it unlikely they shared Carter's antipathy). But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. Hagelin is clever in those parts of his brain which deal with math and physics, but like an autistic savant, lacks the general intelligence to keep him from doing stupid things like appearing in a movie produced by Ramtha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. It would probably be interesting to know *why* Hagelin asserted there were dirty government dealings involving TM, before dismissing his claims out of hand. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. Carter was a fundie nut , just like bush and bin laden. Get a real perspective instead of the usual brainwashed american perspective. No-one outside US buys this american BS..Why do you suppose that iscoincidence? Carter lived his politics by his fundie arrogant beliefs. Period. OffWorld To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
(snip) Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? I know someone who worked for the Carter campaign, and he said that he felt that Jimmie, was a really spiritual guy. I always felt he was and is. I was at his library in Plains, Georgia, and it was built in the old school house where he went to high school; The whole thing is dedicated to one of his teachers- a woman, whom he says really inspired him. It felt very peaceful there... Also, Carter was a peacemaker, during his Presidency and after. I think they are blaming him now, for letting Kohmaini take over Iran, back then; and the whole hostage thing; and the whole thing that put Reagan in the WH. Hell, Carter, was even going to leagalize marijuana...can you imagine? R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Big snip My partner and I have been noticing among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my meditation. Just a livelier time, all around. I have noticed this change in the quality of dreams also. It's really been fascinating to explore another, much deeper level of the dreaming mind. I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. OK, the msot devout and dedicated-to-a-fault fundamentalist/evangelical Christian President we've ever had (unlike Bush, who is simply arrogant and unable to reassess his own behavior). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. Carter was a fundie nut , just like bush and bin laden. Get a real perspective instead of the usual brainwashed american perspective. No-one outside US buys this american BS..Why do you suppose that iscoincidence? Guess that's why he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, huh? In fact, Carter is widely respected outside the U.S., probably more so than *in* the U.S. Carter lived his politics by his fundie arrogant beliefs. Period. From Wikipedia: As President his major initiatives included the consolidation of numerous governmental agencies into the newly formed Department of Energy, a cabinet level department. He enacted strong environmental legislation; deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries; bolstered the social security system; and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. In foreign affairs, Carter's major initiatives included the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, the creation of full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China, and the negotiation of the SALT II Treaty. In addition, he championed human rights throughout the world and used human rights as the center of his administration's foreign policy After [losing to Ronald Reagan in] 1980, Carter assumed the role of an elder statesman and international mediator, using his prestige as a former president to further many causes. He founded the Carter Center as a forum for issues related to democracy and human rights. He has also traveled extensively to monitor elections, conduct peace negotiations, and establish relief efforts. In 2002, Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development. Carter has continued his decades-long active involvement with the charity Habitat for Humanity, which builds houses for the needy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. Last night I dreamt that I was working out the drum part for three Lithuainian girls dressed in native costumes singing a Christian hymn in one of those unusual harmonies. My wife was dreaming that a brown snake with a chipped fang was trying to bite her. And your dream was.. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. OK, the msot devout and dedicated-to-a-fault fundamentalist/evangelical Christian President we've ever had (unlike Bush, who is simply arrogant and unable to reassess his own behavior). No argument with this! No kidding, when people complain about fundie Christians all being fanatics and intolerant and so on, Carter's the counterexample (not the only one, but the most prominent). It isn't fundamentalism per se that's the problem, it's the individual fundamentalist. (And it's no accident that Carter is a Democrat!) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: snip Carter was a fundie nut , just like bush and bin laden. Get a real perspective instead of the usual brainwashed american perspective. No-one outside US buys this american BS..Why do you suppose that iscoincidence? Guess that's why he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, huh? In fact, Carter is widely respected outside the U.S., probably more so than *in* the U.S. Not that he doesn't have his faults and blind spots. But just for example, he was the first U.S. president to speak out in support of gay rights; he is an ardent conservationist and supporter of the rights of women and minorities. He has been recognized internationally, via many awards and honors, as a peacemaker and human rights advocate. He's also a very strong supporter of the separation of church and state. Plus which, he has written an entire book (Our Endangered Values) condemning the socially conservative agenda of today's fundamentalist Christians. In an interview with Mother Jones magazine (hardly a fundie rag) about the book, he said of this agenda: The danger comes when those kinds of principles are applied on the international scene. That brought about a whole gamut of things. One, obviously, is the unprecedented preemptive war that President Bush has declared to be a policy of our country. Another is the total abandonment, and often the derogation, of every nuclear-arms agreement that has been negotiated by previous presidents, beginning in the time of Dwight Eisenhower. At home, it brought about the deterioration of our commitment to environmental quality. Another [effect] is the enormous preference that has been given in tax laws recently to the extremely rich at the expense of working-class and poorer people. Then there's the implied melding of science and religion, where even the president himself has expressed the opinion that religious beliefs should be taught in scientific classrooms. That's unprecedented. And there is a unique and special emphasiswhich is a recent development toowithin the religious community, an obsession with the condemnation of homosexuality. Now, in the bible homosexuality is condemned, but along with divorce and greed and callousness toward poor people. So its elevation to a highest priority among some religious groups has been very disturbing to me. http://tinyurl.com/gu2k7 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, Im quite sure our phones were tapped. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. Neat dream. What aspect of yourself would you say was currently in the soup, and have you been concerned about it? Seems like the dream is telling you not to be. (Not asking for personal revelations, just suggesting questions you might ask yourself about the dream.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. Last night I dreamt that I was working out the drum part for three Lithuainian girls dressed in native costumes singing a Christian hymn in one of those unusual harmonies. My wife was dreaming that a brown snake with a chipped fang was trying to bite her. And your dream was.. I dreamt I was driving someplace with my partner up a winding road in the snow, with pine trees lining the road, only it was in a '67 dodge dart station wagon I owned years ago. I've been on that road before, as I tend to revisit places in my dreams. The next thing I knew I was out of the car, sledding down the road on a piece of foam, until I made my way up a ravine between a house and a bush. A dog barked, and I barked back, which woke me up. And your dream was... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, on 8/25/06 5:40 AM, Robert Gimbel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? I know someone who worked for the Carter campaign, and he said that he felt that Jimmie, was a really spiritual guy. I always felt he was and is. I was at his library in Plains, Georgia, and it was built in the old school house where he went to high school; The whole thing is dedicated to one of his teachers- a woman, whom he says really inspired him. It felt very peaceful there... Also, Carter was a peacemaker, during his Presidency and after. I think they are blaming him now, for letting Kohmaini take over Iran, back then; and the whole hostage thing; and the whole thing that put Reagan in the WH. Hell, Carter, was even going to leagalize marijuana...can you imagine? R.G. I was told by Dr. Margaret Brenman-Gibson, who had a close friend in Carter's inner circle, that he vowed privately while campaigning that if elected, he would do everything in his power to thwart the TMO. Margaret was married to the playwright William Gibson (The Miracle Worker) and was a psychiatrist who often spoke at TM conferences in the 70's. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. OK, the msot devout and dedicated-to-a-fault fundamentalist/evangelical Christian President we've ever had (unlike Bush, who is simply arrogant and unable to reassess his own behavior). No argument with this! No kidding, when people complain about fundie Christians all being fanatics and intolerant and so on, Carter's the counterexample (not the only one, but the most prominent). It isn't fundamentalism per se that's the problem, it's the individual fundamentalist. (And it's no accident that Carter is a Democrat!) I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Pete, Don't be fooled by those Lithuainian's good-girls-singing-hymns act. In my dream those traditional outfits came off after one blender drink. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. Last night I dreamt that I was working out the drum part for three Lithuainian girls dressed in native costumes singing a Christian hymn in one of those unusual harmonies. My wife was dreaming that a brown snake with a chipped fang was trying to bite her. And your dream was.. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, I¹m quite sure our phones were tapped. These days, everyone's phones are tapped. Seriously, if you have phone calls from overseas, you can be sure of this. If you have friends from foreign countries, likewise. If you have Japanese Buddhist friends, ditto. Om Shiren Kyo gets confused with Nicheren Kyo all the time, especially since the Japanese government doesn't like the political activism of the latter. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. OK, the msot devout and dedicated-to-a-fault fundamentalist/evangelical Christian President we've ever had (unlike Bush, who is simply arrogant and unable to reassess his own behavior). No argument with this! No kidding, when people complain about fundie Christians all being fanatics and intolerant and so on, Carter's the counterexample (not the only one, but the most prominent). It isn't fundamentalism per se that's the problem, it's the individual fundamentalist. (And it's no accident that Carter is a Democrat!) I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. Well, he's not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. And what exactly do you believe he's intolerant *of*? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. OK, the msot devout and dedicated-to-a-fault fundamentalist/evangelical Christian President we've ever had (unlike Bush, who is simply arrogant and unable to reassess his own behavior). No argument with this! No kidding, when people complain about fundie Christians all being fanatics and intolerant and so on, Carter's the counterexample (not the only one, but the most prominent). It isn't fundamentalism per se that's the problem, it's the individual fundamentalist. (And it's no accident that Carter is a Democrat!) I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. Well, he's not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. And what exactly do you believe he's intolerant *of*? TM, alcohol in the White House, anything that offends his religious sensibilities that he has direct control of. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. Well, he's not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. And what exactly do you believe he's intolerant *of*? TM, alcohol in the White House, anything that offends his religious sensibilities that he has direct control of. Like most of us, I would imagine. He's also intolerant of a lot of things he has no direct control of, such as racial, religious, and gender discrimination, discrimination against gays and lesbians, human rights violations of all kinds, blurring the line between church and state, not taking care of the poor, etc., etc. Frankly, I don't mind a bit of intolerance on his part about things I'm tolerant of, as long as he's intolerant about the kinds of things I listed above. I'd be really interested to hear why he was so intolerant of TM. My *guess* is that he was convinced MMY was pushing Hinduism in disguise, and that what he didn't like was the perceived deception. If MMY had openly promoted Hinduism, I doubt he'd have objected. Certainly there were plenty of others promoting it that didn't draw his wrath. As I said, he does have his blind spots, and this was one of the worse ones. But he got such high marks in so many other areas, I'm willing to forgive him for it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? Oh, PLEASE. Jimmy Carter is *not* a fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. To the contrary, he embodies the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate. That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with TM, but it wasn't a function of fanticism. Carter's most recent book completely disses the growth of fanatical evangelical christians in the country and their influence in the Bush admin - he argues that christians should instead focus on attempting to emulate the life the jesus in their personal lives. As attorney general of Ark, Clinton went along with the tm prison program that was being developed but then withdrew that support when he became governor due to pressure from the fundies - that's just the political reality in the south; has nothing to do with fanaticism. Carter may not have been a fan of new agey programs in the 70s due to personal background and political pressures, but that's very different from saying he ordered the CIA to illegally focus on infiltrating and destroying a then popular domestic organization. That goes against both his religious and political leanings. No doubt someone in the govt was keeping tabs on the tmo, but the tmo peaked in 75 and went into sharp decline and certainly wouldn't have warrented special illegal inflitration by the late 70s. Remember the Church committee findings about illegal domestic spying by the CIA came out sometime in the mid--70s and the agency was particularly careful to stay clean then. If anything the CIA fantasies of the tmo that came out in the late 70s is probably its attempt to explain to itself the sharp decline in initiations that was occuring - its belief system couldn't allow for rational internal reasons so it had to puff itself up with being worthy of special attention by the CIA. Mild form of paranoid delusion. Or maybe Roy Bachmeyer really was a James Bond??? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Carter may not have been a fan of new agey programs in the 70s due to personal background and political pressures, but that's very different from saying he ordered the CIA to illegally focus on infiltrating and destroying a then popular domestic organization. That goes against both his religious and political leanings. No doubt. But there does seem to be pretty clear evidence he had a special animus against TM. I suggested in another post that that may have been because he thought MMY was surreptitiously trying to convert folks to Hinduism, and it was the perceived *deception* that angered Carter. Speculating freely: As far as the CIA is concerned, it wouldn't surprise me if the CIA *did* infiltrate briefly after the TM-Sidhis came out, not to destroy the organization but to make sure we hadn't actually developed any unusual abilities (there were elements in the CIA that were very heavily into the paranormal), and if we had, to keep the our enemies from getting hold of them. I suspect it would have been the invisibility claim that would have most intrigued them because of its potential usefulness in intelligence operations. It's also not impossible, it seems to me, that the CIA thought the TMO might itself be a cover for a spying operation. This was at the height of the cold war, after all, and if *anybody* was paranoid, it was the CIA. At any rate, if either or both of these were the case, it's not hard to see how the CIA presence would have been connected in TMers' imaginations with Carter's known dislike of the TMO and understood to be a function of an attempt on his part to destroy it, when it was actually just the CIA doing its cold war thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that purity must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 article in the Fairfield Weekly reader: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic. I can't believe that Hagelin said the following: Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community - - activities that began during the Carter administration and that continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future generations. If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate these shady practises, Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin? Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? I am suggesting that there is ZERO evidence or documentation that the largest new age organization of the 70's was the target of ANY U.S. president. I further suggest that those that imply such a thing are themselves fanatics. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. Well, he's not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. And what exactly do you believe he's intolerant *of*? TM, alcohol in the White House, anything that offends his religious sensibilities that he has direct control of. Like most of us, I would imagine. He's also intolerant of a lot of things he has no direct control of, such as racial, religious, and gender discrimination, discrimination against gays and lesbians, human rights violations of all kinds, blurring the line between church and state, not taking care of the poor, etc., etc. Frankly, I don't mind a bit of intolerance on his part about things I'm tolerant of, as long as he's intolerant about the kinds of things I listed above. I'd be really interested to hear why he was so intolerant of TM. My *guess* is that he was convinced MMY was pushing Hinduism in disguise, and that what he didn't like was the perceived deception. If MMY had openly promoted Hinduism, I doubt he'd have objected. Certainly there were plenty of others promoting it that didn't draw his wrath. As I said, he does have his blind spots, and this was one of the worse ones. But he got such high marks in so many other areas, I'm willing to forgive him for it. That peanutfellow sent armed men into Sonnenberg. But I'll forgive him. He didn't accomplish what he tried anyway; to kill Maharishi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/25/06 5:40 AM, Robert Gimbel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had? I know someone who worked for the Carter campaign, and he said that he felt that Jimmie, was a really spiritual guy. I always felt he was and is. I was at his library in Plains, Georgia, and it was built in the old school house where he went to high school; The whole thing is dedicated to one of his teachers- a woman, whom he says really inspired him. It felt very peaceful there... Also, Carter was a peacemaker, during his Presidency and after. I think they are blaming him now, for letting Kohmaini take over Iran, back then; and the whole hostage thing; and the whole thing that put Reagan in the WH. Hell, Carter, was even going to leagalize marijuana...can you imagine? R.G. I was told by Dr. Margaret Brenman-Gibson, who had a close friend in Carter's inner circle, that he vowed privately while campaigning that if elected, he would do everything in his power to thwart the TMO. Interesting comment...and it's a perfect example of how an alleged comment gets all blown out of proportion by folks like Hagelin who then make it into some sort of sinister thing, such as the quote that Brigante provided us. Again, where's the proof that anything was actually done? The fact is, Carter wouldn't have had to do anything. If I were Carter (who came into power in January 1977) and I was actually intent upon entering office of using everything in my power to thwart the TMO, I would not have done anything. Why? Because a few short months later, MMY and the TMO came out with the flying thing publicly. All Carter would have had to say to himself is: these nutcases just self-destructed...now I don't have to do anything from my side. And he would have been right. Margaret was married to the playwright William Gibson (The Miracle Worker) and was a psychiatrist who often spoke at TM conferences in the 70's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: [snip] Well, Mr. Peanut, our beloved Prez Jimmy (my sister was a faith- healer) Carter, did have a hard-on against TM and did task the intel community to get the dirt on the TMO, Two things come to mind when I read this: 1) (and I'm repeating myself here) Where is the proof that he actually did this...freedom of information act? Please show me something other than repeating rumour... 2) Even if Carter or some other U.S. president or even some underling in the U.S. government did observe and gather info on the TMO, what's wrong with that? As long as the info-gathering was done legally, is there anything implicitly wrong with gathering info on an organisation that claims to be able to solve all the problems of mankind and can show you how to levitate? Perhaps the argument can be made that a U.S. president that DIDN'T investigate such claims weren't doing their job properly. There's two issues here: snooping on the TMO and whether there was impropriety in the snooping if indeed snooping took place. I haven't seen evidence of either the former or the latter. but given the near-total incompetence of American intel agencies (WMD was a slam-dunk in Iraq said the CIA), I'm sure that nothing harmful was ever generated by these efforts, which were undoubtedly abandoned quickly after peanut head left office (Reagan and his VP Bush were both friendly to the Beach Boys (Reagan lived next door to the Beach Boys in Bel Air, a rich section of LA), two of who were TM teachers, which makes it unlikely they shared Carter's antipathy). But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. Hagelin is clever in those parts of his brain which deal with math and physics, but like an autistic savant, lacks the general intelligence to keep him from doing stupid things like appearing in a movie produced by Ramtha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, I¹m quite sure our phones were tapped. Just to put things in perspective (now that you've invoked Jonestown): my best friend went down to Guyana to teach TM for over a year in '78-79 and was there when Jonestown happened. According to him, the communist dictator running the country and his government thought the TMers were all CIA agents. Kooks are quick to assume the CIA are interested enough in them to start tapping their phones. We all like to think that what we're doing is important enough that large, powerful governments are going to spend money, time and resources to listen in on what we're doing. It's sad that MMY puts himself in the same category as dictators and disreputable cult leaders (who all, by the way, inevitably start blaming the CIA when their cults get bad publicity). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: snip But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. It would probably be interesting to know *why* Hagelin asserted there were dirty government dealings involving TM, before dismissing his claims out of hand. I would agree with you if these revelations came out last week. But for God's sake, these CIA insinuations have been going on now for the better part of 25 years. Enough already! Give me proof -- some proof -- or shut the fuck up (not you, Judy, but those that make the insinuations). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/24/06 4:45 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How loopy is Ramtha?: I have a friend who was in Ramtha for 8 years, and who left, as did many others, when they all started drinking. The entire gang, JZ Knight included, would get plastered regularly because Ramtha recommended it. Many became raging alcoholics. Hah! How convenient. Of course, with his DWI, Hagelin would fit right in! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Hagelin and cronies are barring people from the dome for visiting others seen as competition for the hearts and minds of TMers, but Hagelin is proud of his association with Ramtha, was in a movie produced by and featuring this obvious hoax, and tours the country with what the MUM publicity team terms the prestigious Phophets conference: [snip] Here's an idea: Every few years we inevitably read the same human interest story in the paper where some guy goes down to the DMV and gets his dog a driver's license (in my 51 years I've seen this same story done at least 4 times in different locales at different times). Someone should do something similar with Hagelin: Apply to the Invincibility course and put down on their application the exact same relationships with Ramtha and activities that Hagelin has had. And let's see if they are accepted or rejected from the course! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I remain unconvinced that Carter is a good counter-example. He's a pacifist, but he's still intolerant. Well, he's not a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. And what exactly do you believe he's intolerant *of*? TM, alcohol in the White House, anything that offends his religious sensibilities that he has direct control of. Like most of us, I would imagine. He's also intolerant of a lot of things he has no direct control of, such as racial, religious, and gender discrimination, discrimination against gays and lesbians, human rights violations of all kinds, blurring the line between church and state, not taking care of the poor, etc., etc. Frankly, I don't mind a bit of intolerance on his part about things I'm tolerant of, as long as he's intolerant about the kinds of things I listed above. I'd be really interested to hear why he was so intolerant of TM. My *guess* is that he was convinced MMY was pushing Hinduism in disguise, and that what he didn't like was the perceived deception. If MMY had openly promoted Hinduism, I doubt he'd have objected. Certainly there were plenty of others promoting it that didn't draw his wrath. As I said, he does have his blind spots, and this was one of the worse ones. But he got such high marks in so many other areas, I'm willing to forgive him for it. That peanutfellow sent armed men into Sonnenberg. But I'll forgive him. He didn't accomplish what he tried anyway; to kill Maharishi. Fuck you, Nablus. Provide proof or simply shut the fuck up, you creepy cult-infested vermin. I'm the last person on Earth who could be called a fan of Jimmy Carter but it's the lowest, most vile form of slander to suggest that someone did something like what you accuse him of without even a shred of evidence. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, on 8/25/06 11:21 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Hagelin and cronies are barring people from the dome for visiting others seen as competition for the hearts and minds of TMers, but Hagelin is proud of his association with Ramtha, was in a movie produced by and featuring this obvious hoax, and tours the country with what the MUM publicity team terms the prestigious Phophets conference: [snip] Here's an idea: Every few years we inevitably read the same human interest story in the paper where some guy goes down to the DMV and gets his dog a driver's license (in my 51 years I've seen this same story done at least 4 times in different locales at different times). Someone should do something similar with Hagelin: Apply to the Invincibility course and put down on their application the exact same relationships with Ramtha and activities that Hagelin has had. And let's see if they are accepted or rejected from the course! Walter Day did a thing a some years back where he cut out photos of Bevan, Gregg Wilson, Kurleigh King, etc., from some publication and pasted them on his dome badge. Day after day, he got into the dome this way. Finally they caught him using the Kurleigh King photo (Kurleigh King was black). A few days later he was sitting in the small group security check with Gregg Wilson and Gregg said, Uh, Walter, we understand youve been pasting our photos on your dome badge. Walter started getting nervous, but then Gregg said, Dont worry. We thought it was funny. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/25/06 11:21 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Hagelin and cronies are barring people from the dome for visiting others seen as competition for the hearts and minds of TMers, but Hagelin is proud of his association with Ramtha, was in a movie produced by and featuring this obvious hoax, and tours the country with what the MUM publicity team terms the prestigious Phophets conference: [snip] Here's an idea: Every few years we inevitably read the same human interest story in the paper where some guy goes down to the DMV and gets his dog a driver's license (in my 51 years I've seen this same story done at least 4 times in different locales at different times). Someone should do something similar with Hagelin: Apply to the Invincibility course and put down on their application the exact same relationships with Ramtha and activities that Hagelin has had. And let's see if they are accepted or rejected from the course! Walter Day did a thing a some years back where he cut out photos of Bevan, Gregg Wilson, Kurleigh King, etc., from some publication and pasted them on his dome badge. Day after day, he got into the dome this way. Finally they caught him using the Kurleigh King photo (Kurleigh King was black). A few days later he was sitting in the small group security check with Gregg Wilson and Gregg said, ³Uh, Walter, we understand you¹ve been pasting our photos on your dome badge.² Walter started getting nervous, but then Gregg said, ³Don¹t worry. We thought it was funny.² I got to know Greg a little when Purusha first started in DC. He's got a very, very dry sense of humor. He seems quite serious but he's not. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: I don't usually remember my dreams, but I did the other day. I dreamed that I was sitting in the kitchen, eating a shallow, wide bowl of cream soup, and Carrie, one of our little white cats, was sitting *in* the soup and bent over, licking it up, at the same time that I was also eating from the bowl with a spoon. And, it was all perfectly normal. Last night I dreamt that I was working out the drum part for three Lithuainian girls dressed in native costumes singing a Christian hymn in one of those unusual harmonies. My wife was dreaming that a brown snake with a chipped fang was trying to bite her. And your dream was.. I dreamt I was driving someplace with my partner up a winding road in the snow, with pine trees lining the road, only it was in a '67 dodge dart station wagon I owned years ago. I've been on that road before, as I tend to revisit places in my dreams. The next thing I knew I was out of the car, sledding down the road on a piece of foam, until I made my way up a ravine between a house and a bush. A dog barked, and I barked back, which woke me up. And your dream was... I was dreaming I was sleeping in Rosie's bed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, I¹m quite sure our phones were tapped. * The government monitors a lot of people, but this is not harmful in itself, and the fact that MUM has collected many millions in grants from the feds illustrates the lack of harm any government monitoring has done. Tell me what possible evidence there is that the TMO has suffered in any way from govt harassment? Also, because the original investigation of the TMO was generated from on top, President Carter, it's very unlikely that interest in the TMO continued after presidents friendly (Reagan/Bush Sr.) or neutral (Clinton) to the movement took over. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, I¹m quite sure our phones were tapped. Just to put things in perspective (now that you've invoked Jonestown): my best friend went down to Guyana to teach TM for over a year in '78-79 and was there when Jonestown happened. According to him, the communist dictator running the country and his government thought the TMers were all CIA agents. Kooks are quick to assume the CIA are interested enough in them to start tapping their phones. We all like to think that what we're doing is important enough that large, powerful governments are going to spend money, time and resources to listen in on what we're doing. It's sad that MMY puts himself in the same category as dictators and disreputable cult leaders (who all, by the way, inevitably start blaming the CIA when their cults get bad publicity). Yeah, that Castro: always paranoid that the CIA and US military were out to get him... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 8/25/06 1:21 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to claim that there is some current and persistent government campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. They government is huge and internal communications are sloppy. It is not unlikely that one branch is giving money while another is hassling the movement. When I was teaching in DC soon after Jonestown, I¹m quite sure our phones were tapped. Just to put things in perspective (now that you've invoked Jonestown): my best friend went down to Guyana to teach TM for over a year in '78-79 and was there when Jonestown happened. According to him, the communist dictator running the country and his government thought the TMers were all CIA agents. Kooks are quick to assume the CIA are interested enough in them to start tapping their phones. We all like to think that what we're doing is important enough that large, powerful governments are going to spend money, time and resources to listen in on what we're doing. It's sad that MMY puts himself in the same category as dictators and disreputable cult leaders (who all, by the way, inevitably start blaming the CIA when their cults get bad publicity). Yeah, that Castro: always paranoid that the CIA and US military were out to get him... The crime there is that the CIA did NOT get Castro. Thankfully, they got that child-killer and mass murderer Che Guevara. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S LBS, you obviously haven't been active here in the past year or you would know the answers to all this. I mean have there been any definitive studies on the effects of the bagpipe on a sidha's brainwaves and how that might affect the group coherence in the dome? And hawthorne doing jyotish readings without giving any of his fees to the TMO obviously hinders its efforts to create world peace, which is bad karma, which could result in the lords of karma zapping him with a lightning bolt someday, and what if that happened while he was in the dome and innocent sidhas nearby became collateral damage? Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LBS, you obviously haven't been active here in the past year or you would know the answers to all this. I mean have there been any definitive studies on the effects of the bagpipe on a sidha's brainwaves and how that might affect the group coherence in the dome? Actually, there have been several studies, but more on just being near someone who once played the bagpipes - it was shown definitively that it was NOT necessary to actually hear the person playing the bagpipes, or to even know that the person had ever played the bagpipes. A smaller, but still disruptive, effect was found if the subject was near a person who once considered playing the bagpipes, but decided against it. The best reference I can find at short notice is Offksanvkie, T. S. Wojiewscki, B.O. (2003). The effects of near distance on bagpipe excitations in non-bagpiping adults. Journal of Bagpiping, Trumpeting, and Oboeing, 33(1), 108-134. And hawthorne doing jyotish readings without giving any of his fees to the TMO obviously hinders its efforts to create world peace, which is bad karma, which could result in the lords of karma zapping him with a lightning bolt someday, and what if that happened while he was in the dome and innocent sidhas nearby became collateral damage? Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: major snip Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all. That's true, and now that you mention it, I was a lot happier not thinking about it than thinking about it. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Wonder why you didn't just quote it; it isn't long: Milieu is a French word meaning surroundings; environment. Cults are able to control the environment around their recruits in a number of ways, but almost always using a form of isolation. Recruits can be physically separated from society, or they can be warned under threat of punishment to stay away from the world's educational media, especially when it might provoke critical thinking. Any books, movies or testimonies of ex-members of the group, or even anyone critical of the group in any way are to be avoided. Information is carefully kept on each recruit by the mother organization. All are watched, lest they fall behind or get too far ahead of the thinking of the organization. Because it appears that the organization knows so much about everything and everyone, they appear omniscient in the eyes of the recruits. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Responses interleaved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is both precise and comprehensive. Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating aging, long- term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small number who still prefer it that way. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe methodological and sociological barriers to establishing the numbers. Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized hot buttons around certain topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a conversational mine field. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Thanks for the reply. Lifton and Singer established 8 principles from their work with Korean war vets. I don't know Lifton but did know the late Margret Singer. She was fascinated by how some modern groups had refined the techniques to become less obvious and more subtle. I think this is a case of knowledge being power. Knowing the techniques makes it more difficult to apply them. Even some sales seminars I have attended have tried to pull some of these techniques on me, but once it is identified, it loses a lot of its power to influence. I appreciated your assessment of people's ability to discuss topics reasonably. I find that to be true of most people when it comes to deeply held, and particularly spiritual beliefs, not just in the movement. Instilling a phobic response to questioning beliefs is a characteristic to watch for that makes some groups better at inhibiting critical thinking. My definition of what and who the movement is has changed considerably for me from posting here and corresponding with people like yourself. It seems there is a small group of people clustered around the dudes with the Raja crowns, and a much larger, and more interesting, group who has taken what is valuable from their TM experience and moved on. Although I don't meditate myself, I will always be interested in and connected with TM as part of my history. I have enjoyed getting to know the new, cooler movement. living outside the Raja-domains! When I was in the movement I was only interested in getting closer and closer to MMY. Now, the farther people are from him the more interesting they are to me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Responses interleaved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is both precise and comprehensive. Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating aging, long- term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small number who still prefer it that way. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe methodological and sociological barriers to establishing the numbers. Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized hot buttons around certain topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a conversational mine field. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB. is exactly what I heard from my marginally on the program friends. Sorry L.B. A lot of people still love you anyways! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Responses interleaved. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is both precise and comprehensive. Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating aging, long- term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small number who still prefer it that way. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe methodological and sociological barriers to establishing the numbers. Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized hot buttons around certain topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a conversational mine field. L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB. is exactly what I heard from my marginally on the program friends. snip It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few people still being rejected, but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard. If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But they don't. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization? My affinity for the TMO is much more about the organizational dynamics than whether I choose to involve myself in alternative spiritual esoterica. I really appreciate the 'Vedic template' that Maharishi has been patiently been putting in place for so many years, and I have found the TM techniques exceptionally effective at all levels. However the TMO has been for me a victim of its own success. The more I achieve the less need I have for the organization, which I think is the way it is supposed to be- except for those whose dharma it is to work within the organization. Having said that, I am extremely grateful to those on this current course. It is having a palpable effect even as far away as where I call home, northern California. My partner and I have been noticing among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my meditation. Just a livelier time, all around. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 bmorry2000@ wrote: They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB. is exactly what I heard from my marginally on the program friends. snip It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few people still being rejected, but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard. If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But they don't. L B S *** Hagelin and cronies are barring people from the dome for visiting others seen as competition for the hearts and minds of TMers, but Hagelin is proud of his association with Ramtha, was in a movie produced by and featuring this obvious hoax, and tours the country with what the MUM publicity team terms the prestigious Phophets conference: http://uspeacegovernment.org/news/2005_03.html How loopy is Ramtha?: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html#dance Hagelin is really not interested in improving the school's PR as long as he personally can feel important and be applauded by knuckleheads. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
(snip) I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization? I am sure the people running this course are also thinking in terms of 'cost/benefit analysis', so that perhaps it is not worth their while to entertain people who they feel will be disruptive and counterproductive... Also, I really don't see how this Lifton study on 'cults', Is any different from any organized belief system, whether it be any of the organized religions, or even the way our whole culture is stuctured. Any time there is human structure of any kind; there follows rules, do's and don'ts and vieing for political power. One of the only organizations that had avoided this, is the Twelve Step programs, which specifically have a structure that avoids anyone becoming a leader or 'head' of the group; and the money is not used for promotion, and other safe-guards to avoid ego taking over. But it is never easy to structure any organization without ego vieing for power, money, and the like... presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? What is disrupted is Milieu Control. I'm sure everyone here is hip to that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit. The movement seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their 20's and less self-assured. From the outside it is fascinating to see them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands. I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization. It seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words would have a completely different effect by this time. When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement, there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more turned off to the teaching. My guess is that although FFL is a small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline. I meet people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of being cut out of courses. I would love to know the numbers on both these sides. I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization? My affinity for the TMO is much more about the organizational dynamics than whether I choose to involve myself in alternative spiritual esoterica. I really appreciate the 'Vedic template' that Maharishi has been patiently been putting in place for so many years, and I have found the TM techniques exceptionally effective at all levels. However the TMO has been for me a victim of its own success. The more I achieve the less need I have for the organization, which I think is the way it is supposed to be- except for those whose dharma it is to work within the organization. Having said that, I am extremely grateful to those on this current course. It is having a palpable effect even as far away as where I call home, northern California. My partner and I have been noticing among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my meditation. Just a livelier time, all around. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new religious movements was scientifically unacceptable. It had been arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar conclusion. As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and mind control have properly been banished from consideration by American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for cult-followers to be able to blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves their needs for a cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out the cult victim claim and then complain that someone is blaming the victim when people point out that not everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply. Lifton and Singer established 8 principles from their work with Korean war vets. I don't know Lifton but did know the late Margret Singer. She was fascinated by how some modern groups had refined the techniques to become less obvious and more subtle. Note that the Korean war vets in question had been prisoners of war in Korea and China; that's Lifton's and Singer's model, which they then (especially Singer) extrapolated to new religious groups (or cults). (Curtis believes, incidentally, or did back in 1997 when he was posting to alt.m.t, that the same methods used on the Korean war vets to alter their thinking about communism were used on him in the context of the TMO--in their more subtle form, of course. He was quoted as claiming in the Washington, DC, City Paper, 7/13/90, that the TM thought reform techniques are the most sophisticated techniques for mind control that have ever been used.) Not surprisingly, Singer found the techniques used by the Koreans and Chinese to brainwash prisoners of war had been refined to become less obvious and more subtle in the new religious groups. The problem is that if you posit a sufficient degree of subtlety, you can make all *kinds* of things fit these principles, and you can find them, in their less obvious, more subtle form, in any number of groups and organizations that nobody would consider cults. The problem with anticults (especially lay ones like Curtis) is that they never draw the necessary lines. At what point does the subtlety of these techniques mean that they aren't techniques at all but simply the normal, accepted way of doing things in a particular context, with no sinister motivations, and perhaps even a well-founded practical basis? If the range of subtlety of these techniques can be extended indefinitely, it becomes possible to pick virtually any group and find enough of its procedures in their subtle forms among Lifton's and Singer's list of thought-reform techniques. But if these techniques can be found in virtually any group by the simple expedient of claiming they are used in such a highly refined form that they aren't obvious (or even evident), it no longer becomes possible to make valid distinctions between groups that are cults and groups that are not on the basis of the techniques criterion. Instead, what happens is that groups are placed under suspicion of being cults on other grounds, which typically boil down to the fact that they have beliefs one does not oneself hold, or that one does not care for the personality of the leader, or other irrelevancies (including that one has left a particular group and needs to find justification for doing so). Only then are the technique criteria applied, and lo and behold, these suspect groups are all found to utilize very subtle forms of these techniques. From court testimony in a Hare Krishna case by cult expert G. Gordon Melton: More recently, several people have espoused the idea of brainwashing (also termed thought control, coercive persuasion, or mind control). Proponents suggested that cults had discovered a new psychological technology, a technology which has somehow escaped the rest of the psychological world. With this technology it brainwashed young recruits and held them with such force that they are unable to break the spell of attachment to the group. These ideas which seemed to actually have a body of evidence behind them, provoked a heated debate among social scientists in the early 1980s. In the mid 1980s, the whole brainwashing perspective was thoroughly evaluated by the American Psychological Association. After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new religious movements was scientifically unacceptable. It had been arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar conclusion. As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and mind control have properly been banished from consideration by American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new religious movements was scientifically unacceptable. It had been arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar conclusion. As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and mind control have properly been banished from consideration by American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for cult-followers to be able to blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves their needs for a cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out the cult victim claim and then complain that someone is blaming the victim when people point out that not everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do. Yes, I agree, this is the typical blame someone else for your experience; Everyone on some level chooses his or her own experience; So we all need to take responsibility at some point. After all, it is our life, not a dress rehersal. Now, even the Kaplans, seem so victimized; Perhaps they do make some valid points; But they also had all of these experiences that money could buy; Mush personal time with Maharishi; I didn't get to do that. And I don't have the money that they do either. But in any case, when you are blaming, and not taking responsibility, there is no growth in this. R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They are letting everyone in the dome--except
LB. is exactly what
I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
snip
It's such a weird world. Apparently there are
actually quite a few people still being rejected,
but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
If they knew how much it would improve their PR to
let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat.
But they don't.
L B S
Their loss, L.B.. Why don't you tell John to call MMY
and ask him if you should be let in the dome? You
could tell John that he is in no position to accept
the karma of blocking the good intent of someone who
wants to get in the dome. Only MMY can decide that. On
an ATR ('77) I was on many moons ago, someones mother
was being blocked from attending TTC because she
taught asanas. When MMY came to see us her son told
MMY directly about the situation he was surprised. He
said outloud something like: She can't go to TTC
because she's teaching asanas? He acted like it was
the stupidest decision he had ever heard. He turned to
his secretary and told him to fix it. His mom got on
TTC right away.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
The cult/thought reform information was useful for me but it may not be for everyone. There are ways to understand it that don't involve seeing yourself as a victim. As a teacher my first instinct in learning about this aspect of groups was to decide that I couldn't ethically teach the system to others. I decided that before I stopped meditating. I felt as though the way the information was imparted was not done in a manor that I was comfortable with. But everyone has to decide for themselves if this information is useful for their lives. Once I learned about it, I sought it out. That was my choice. It may not be yours or you may have already checked it out and decided it doesn't apply. But learning about how groups can shift beliefs doesn't make you a victim unless you want it to. It is just an influence. There are a lot of factors that influence its effectiveness. We are social primates and that had implications. I liked Margret Singer personally, and felt she was making a contribution to our understanding of group belief dynamics. Her heart was in the right place and she was a deep thinker. May she rest in peace. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new religious movements was scientifically unacceptable. It had been arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar conclusion. As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and mind control have properly been banished from consideration by American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for cult-followers to be able to blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves their needs for a cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out the cult victim claim and then complain that someone is blaming the victim when people point out that not everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new religious movements was scientifically unacceptable. It had been arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar conclusion. As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and mind control have properly been banished from consideration by American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for cult-followers to be able to blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves their needs for a cult to belong to or some other group First they have to justify defining the group as a cult, which is where Singer's incredibly sloppy thinking is so con-VE-nient, because the subtlety dodge allows you to define just about any group as a cult. --so they keep dragging out the cult victim claim and then complain that someone is blaming the victim when people point out that not everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cult/thought reform information was useful for me but it may not be for everyone. There are ways to understand it that don't involve seeing yourself as a victim. [TM techniques] are the most sophisticated techniques for mind control that have ever been used, according to you. You also wrote, Lifton and Singer studied [Korean war vets] and brought out a model to understand the shifting of a person's belief without their conscious participation. It describes what happened to me in TM very well. It's difficult to see how these claims of yours could be consistent with not seeing yourself as a victim. As a teacher my first instinct in learning about this aspect of groups was to decide that I couldn't ethically teach the system to others. I decided that before I stopped meditating. I felt as though the way the information was imparted was not done in a manor that I was comfortable with. But everyone has to decide for themselves if this information is useful for their lives. Once I learned about it, I sought it out. That was my choice. It may not be yours or you may have already checked it out and decided it doesn't apply. How could it *not* apply if TM's techniques are the most sophisticated techniques for mind control that have ever been used? snip I liked Margret Singer personally, and felt she was making a contribution to our understanding of group belief dynamics. Her heart was in the right place and she was a deep thinker. Here's my favorite statement of this deep thinker (at least as reported by Curtis): According to Margret Singer who has personally worked with more than 3,000 cult victims TMers sustain the most damage of any members who have left a cult. (Note Curtis's--or perhaps Singer's--use of the term cult victims.) One *hopes* that Curtis has somewhat mangled this assertion of Singer's, and that what she *actually* said was more like, The former TMers with whom I have worked have sustained the most damage of any former cult members I have treated. But even that would be a rather peculiar assertion from someone who was supposedly scientifically minded. First, her sample of former TMers is self-selected, on two levels: (1) these are people who sought out therapy; (2) they are people who sought out *Singer* as their therapist. Second, neither Singer nor anyone else that I'm aware of has ever made a serious attempt to distinguish preexisting pathology from the effects of TM. (Indeed, given the specific claims TM makes and its documented effectiveness in some areas--e.g., reducing trait anxiety--it's likely that people with preexisting pathology tend to gravitate to TM in relatively larger numbers, so that's another factor skewing the sample.) So for her to suggest that her patients' damage was a result of their TM practice and/or exposure to its purported thought-reform techniques is completely unsupported by any data. Curtis, Singer may have been a very nice lady, but she was a *sloppy thinker*. To use her model and analysis as the basis of your perspective on your TM experience is iffy at best, and to promote it to others without the appropriate caveats is just plain irresponsible. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, on 8/24/06 4:45 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How loopy is Ramtha?: I have a friend who was in Ramtha for 8 years, and who left, as did many others, when they all started drinking. The entire gang, JZ Knight included, would get plastered regularly because Ramtha recommended it. Many became raging alcoholics. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/24/06 4:45 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How loopy is Ramtha?: I have a friend who was in Ramtha for 8 years, and who left, as did many others, when they all started drinking. The entire gang, JZ Knight included, would get plastered regularly because Ramtha recommended it. Many became raging alcoholics. Some days you're Crazy Wisdom and some day's you're a f*ckin' alcoholic. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 bmorry2000@ wrote: They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB. is exactly what I heard from my marginally on the program friends. snip It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few people still being rejected, but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard. If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat. But they don't. L B S Well LB, it's good to be number 1 (VBG for the humor impaired). I hope you're not really disappointed, and having fun. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Lol ! David Hawthorne and Tim Britton got rejected?? !!! Ridiculous. Tim's bagpipes are not even of the loud kindthe Irish pipes are QUIET compared to the Scottish pipes that MMY loves (and I hate - scotsman) I do believe that they should let LBS into the dome...then...do an objective, double-blind study, peer-reviewed in short process, andif HE doesn't cause a disturbance ...jeez...let THE REAT OF THEM IN ! I'm going to e-mail Hagelin with this proposal. They need to wake up and get real ! (By the way ...I'd like to get Shiva Ma on the foam. She would LOVE it...but that's just me) OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Big snip My partner and I have been noticing among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my meditation. Just a livelier time, all around. I have noticed this change in the quality of dreams also. It's really been fascinating to explore another, much deeper level of the dreaming mind. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Reply below.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000
bmorry2000@ wrote:
They are letting everyone in the dome--except
LB. is exactly what
I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
snip
It's such a weird world. Apparently there are
actually quite a few people still being rejected,
but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
If they knew how much it would improve their PR to
let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat.
But they don't.
L B S
Their loss, L.B.. Why don't you tell John to call MMY
and ask him if you should be let in the dome? You
could tell John that he is in no position to accept
the karma of blocking the good intent of someone who
wants to get in the dome. Only MMY can decide that. On
an ATR ('77) I was on many moons ago, someones mother
was being blocked from attending TTC because she
taught asanas. When MMY came to see us her son told
MMY directly about the situation he was surprised. He
said outloud something like: She can't go to TTC
because she's teaching asanas? He acted like it was
the stupidest decision he had ever heard. He turned to
his secretary and told him to fix it. His mom got on
TTC right away.
Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this
time, having
recently stuck his neck out quite a lot.
I do not at this time feel any impulse toward further action, although that
could change in
the future, of course.
I promised myself when I was excommunicated that when I went back into the Dome
it
could only be one way: straight up and clean. In one sense that means no
recanting or
grovelling, but it also means being in a state of equanimity with respect to
the outcome.
When I feel a true impulse to act I will do so, but I am OK biding my time,
even if it means
another 12 years.
L B S
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well LB, it's good to be number 1 (VBG for the humor impaired). I hope you're not really disappointed, and having fun. Well, I didn't make it to Woodstock, either, but I don't lay awake nights wondering if my life would be perfect now if I'd just been a bit more ambitious about finding a ride. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that purity must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 article in the Fairfield Weekly reader: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this time, having recently stuck his neck out quite a lot. I do not at this time feel any impulse toward further action, although that could change in the future, of course. I promised myself when I was excommunicated that when I went back into the Dome it could only be one way: straight up and clean. In one sense that means no recanting or grovelling, but it also means being in a state of equanimity with respect to the outcome. When I feel a true impulse to act I will do so, but I am OK biding my time, even if it means another 12 years. L B S Yea, but you're a nice guy...and I AM NOTI don't need anyone... or any Maharishi.or any GODor any Domeever !!! (I appreciate MMY's program.as THE best thing...but I do not believe in his ALL KNOWING... just as he does not)...\ ...But, I do believe it is time to nail the final nail in the coffin of the small mind. I cannot accept it... I would be HAPPY...to be at risk of getting my neck CUT OFFnever mind sticking it out !...by the... Maharishiif such he be in order to insist that he looks at the photos of those refusedand then decide. I am 1000% sure that LBS would be accepted by MMY if he saw LBS. 1000 is an understatement. Why is john Hagelin a coward??? What is he afraid of??? ...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!! Why is john Hagelin a coward??? What is he afraid of??? ...answer this OffWorld To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
Sweet...glad to hear from you LB, and your objective assessment. I can't be bothered with going to Iowa again, but I feel maybe something even from here in Vermont (which is heaven on earth anyway, even at the worst of times). OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I didn't see much chance that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I WOULD be accepted took its toll; I figured that in the worst case scenario, I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how sweet it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movemen's future were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this course, and am feeling its benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
LBS: Thanks for the info and good luck to you, SAB --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I didn't see much chance that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I WOULD be accepted took its toll; I figured that in the worst case scenario, I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how sweet it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movemen's future were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this course, and am feeling its benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. The pendulum has swung so far to weirdness, resulting in about the 12th round of alienation which started with the sidhis, that maybe it's starting to swing back. Probably too late for any meaningful resurgence. But just the same, maybe we can all still be friends again. I mean had TMO gotten to the point whereby even reading Autobiography of a Yogi 15 yrs. ago would put you OTP. That's kind of the impression I had. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
If people are actually having good experiences, consistently, and those not on the course finally get to see and hear about it - and believe it is not hype but genuine good meditation progress, then it will transform the TMO. People will forget all the bad feelings and return. People want evolution, tangilble good experiences, and assume these bring enlightenment closer to them. Why even the hyped language does not sound so syrup- laden when your own experiences match it. LBS your response to all this sounds positively Cosmic itself! Wow. Impressive. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I didn't see much chance that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I WOULD be accepted took its toll; I figured that in the worst case scenario, I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how sweet it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movemen's future were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this course, and am feeling its benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. The pendulum has swung so far to weirdness, resulting in about the 12th round of alienation which started with the sidhis, that maybe it's starting to swing back. Probably too late for any meaningful resurgence. But just the same, maybe we can all still be friends again. I mean had TMO gotten to the point whereby even reading Autobiography of a Yogi 15 yrs. ago would put you OTP. That's kind of the impression I had. I think you've captured the sense of it. Something is changing, and apparently for the better. Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but�
Good to hear from you L.B. I thought you had enough good sense to stay away from FFL, I'm glad you don't though! ;-) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good to hear from you L.B. I thought you had enough good sense to stay away from FFL, I'm glad you don't though! ;-) Surely you recognize the diagnosis, Dr Sutphen: temporary insanity. L B S __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. The pendulum has swung so far to weirdness, resulting in about the 12th round of alienation which started with the sidhis, that maybe it's starting to swing back. Probably too late for any meaningful resurgence. But just the same, maybe we can all still be friends again. I mean had TMO gotten to the point whereby even reading Autobiography of a Yogi 15 yrs. ago would put you OTP. That's kind of the impression I had. I think you've captured the sense of it. Something is changing, and apparently for the better. Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY Like I said, it's a shift, not a revolution. I had been hearing about it for the last year or so without seeing evidence until now. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY Like I said, it's a shift, not a revolution. I had been hearing about it for the last year or so without seeing evidence until now. L B S Well it's good to hear you are seeing evidence. It's certainly contrary to pattern. There aren't many 'grass roots' left for changes to arise from except the ground of Being JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip There aren't many 'grass roots' left for changes to arise from except the ground of Being Fortunately, that's the one that counts. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: . As MMY says, any group's leaders are merely footballs of the group's consciousness, and we can't expect any big improvement in Hagelin's behavior until the group supports an improvement. As for now, Hagelin is dominated by silliness, and the world at large thinks so too: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html#lower Bob That opinion is from the presidents of colleges, not the people who are doing collaborative research with MUM. As far as I can tell, there is more collaboration done NOW, while the school is at its lowest level of reputation, than at any time in the past. *** Because TM is valid, the research will be eventually note that validity in a way that is convincing, but so far, obviously, no sale in any way that validates MUM's reputation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There aren't many 'grass roots' left for changes to arise from except the ground of Being Fortunately, that's the one that counts. L B S Good parry. L.B. in good form. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Something is changing, snip Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY I'm sure your're right. So what's wrong with that? lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: snip I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. The pendulum has swung so far to weirdness, resulting in about the 12th round of alienation which started with the sidhis, that maybe it's starting to swing back. Probably too late for any meaningful resurgence. But just the same, maybe we can all still be friends again. I mean had TMO gotten to the point whereby even reading Autobiography of a Yogi 15 yrs. ago would put you OTP. That's kind of the impression I had. I think you've captured the sense of it. Something is changing, and apparently for the better. Too early to say for sure how far or exactly what direction, but it's definitely shifting. L B S Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. And why should this matter? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: Something is changing, snip Forgive me for a seeming lack of 'cosmicallity' or subtleness but I'll believe it when I see it. From a distance it seems like necessity is driving any changes, not a change of heart. JohnY I'm sure your're right. So what's wrong with that? lurk Nothing, but driven by necessity, it will be more temporary. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: There aren't many 'grass roots' left for changes to arise from except the ground of Being Fortunately, that's the one that counts. L B S Good parry. L.B. in good form. lurk That's no parry, I agree with him... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,
Yeah, that disruptive thing is tough to figure out. They are claiming that it's the decisive factor in most of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first applied a couple of weeks ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For example, what's so fucking disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave his bagpipes outside if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform homa on the foma? Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his outlaw Deeksha? L B S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Disruptive? Hah,it is about MOJO. Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in their book. Best Regards fra FF, -Doug Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you the 'rack'. It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing about anything to git back in. Appeasement, it did not work before with Hilter either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. Doug writing: oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million. It is pretty obvious. Reply below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: L B Shriver l_b_shriver@ wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. Of course not. They would have to eat way too much crow to let you in. -Doug in FF The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper regions of the administration, although the perception there is that it is more widespread. Therefore there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would be disruptive. This is essentially the Weapons of Mass Destruction argumentit is convenient, but doesn't match the facts on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather have them let me in and drop this blacklisting bullshit. Despite that, my application actually did get into the region where acceptance was a possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry it through this time. From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I believe that if you want more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation. L B S To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet, but
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, L B Shriver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Friends at FFLife, It's been awhile since I've had time or inclination to check in, but I thought it might be useful to relate my experiences applying for the current superradiance course in progress here. I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered eligible at this time to participate, after nearly a month of having my application in process. I am satisfied that my case was given as fair and favorable a review as possible under the circumstances, and with the exception of one or two moderately bumpy exchanges, I can assure you that my interactions with the course office were cordial and respectful on both sides. The point I am making here is: Yes, things are a bit different. I had not intended to apply for this course, inasmuch as I didn't see much chance that I would be accepted. However, the daily barrage of encouragement from my many friends who were absolutely convinced that I WOULD be accepted took its toll; I figured that in the worst case scenario, I would be able to show them that I was right and they were wrong. And we all know how sweet it is to be right. During the process, I would have to admit, I was won over. Not so much by the process itself, but by the glowing reports I have been hearing from countless friends who have been participating. I offer a few observations and conclusions: Something special is definitely going on here. Not just the obviousWhat? A FREE COURSE from the movement?!?but also in the experiences people are having and in the interactions with Maharishi. Considering how the prospects for the Movemen's future were looking a year ago, it strikes me as nothing short of miraculous. Furthermore, this could be a one-of-a-kind. There will be crises in the future, to be sure, but whether this opportunity will be available is not a given. I don't know anyone who really expected Maharishi to be interacting so freely with course participants EVER again. Although I have not been participating in the group programs, I definitely feel the surge of wakefulness that has arrived with this course, and am feeling its benefits. I found the process of applying to be useful in terms of letting go of old garbagehard feelings, etc. I have no regrets about that. For the record, I do not feel that I compromised any of my own ethical principles in this process, nor did I grovel. Nor do I believe that by groveling I could have changed the ultimate result of my application. I even had some unexpectedly positive interactions with Dr Hagelin, and was sincerely impressed by his generally classy responses to my occasionally two- fisted assertions and queries. I am aware that many of you who are not participating in this course may be simply uninterested, and I am OK with that. However, if you are in the category (as I was for quite some time) of individuals whose reasons for not applying basically boil down to hard feelings, then I would encourage you to lighten up a bit and take a chance. I did, and have no regrets. Ciao, L B S * I believe that there is no question in your case of practicing meditation techniques other than TM, so I don't see much of a change of heart among TM administrators, who are apparently barring you from the course solely because of your criticism of the way things are done in the TMO, a stance which does not seem legitimate if the concern is the vibes in the meditation hall being messed up by people who are not doing the TM program. However, even at a distance from Fairfield, I also feel the improvement in the atmosphere that you have noted (you also noticed and posted about the big wave of bliss, as did I, living in Fairfield when the numbers went up sharply for a while post 9/11), and this is certainly encouraging. As MMY says, any group's leaders are merely footballs of the group's consciousness, and we can't expect any big improvement in Hagelin's behavior until the group supports an improvement. As for now, Hagelin is dominated by silliness, and the world at large thinks so too: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html#lower Bob To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
