[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-14 Thread Buck
This is really an interesting old MMY quote.
Reads remarkably like what, going to sit with a saint.


 Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
  
 Maharishi: Yes.
 
 Question: Are these suggestive powers the strength of one mind over another 
 mind, or someting else?
  
 Maharishi: There is mental healing through the power of the mind. But this 
 healing power is a quality of the body. Some rays are being emitted all the 
 time through the body, sometimes through the hands or other extremities of 
 the body. Some constitutions develop more of these energy rays in their body, 
 and when they meditate, greater energy is produced and begins to flow through 
 their body. It is just a quality of the particular body. Some bodies gather 
 more of these rays.


 
 
  This just in:
  
  This comes from a new book from MUM Press called, Transcendental 
  Meditation with Questions and Answers.
  ___
  
  Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
   
  Maharishi: Yes.
  
   

 
 Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means 
 to be a human being, or at least fooled around with the 
 internal machinery for extended periods; TM not necessarily 
 the only method used. Maharishi made many claims about the 
 outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since 
 then, many people acknowledge that they have experienced some 
 or many or even all of what he said would result; I'd put 
 myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.
 
 The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . 
 what, though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic 
 dissociative state does seem to confer a functional 
 advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in 
 whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my 
 experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience of 
 joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
 

It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light 
but it shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it 
is that you can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being 
is also what it is about.
-Buck in FF


   
   I think it is beautiful,we hold Curtis in the light here and now he has 
   come back to meditation.  I'm working on his upgrade from blues to gospel 
   now.
   -Buck 
   
   
  
  2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
  experiences Maharishi describes as higher states of 
  consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to us 
  or is it just another POV?  As billed it gives deeper 
  insight into reality.  If this is the case can anything be 
  demonstrated that might indicate this or is it just a cool 
  buzz for the person with no added cognitive abilities that 
  you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish concert 
  followed by a night of shrooms
 
 

   
  
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-13 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
 
   One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament that 
   enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain is 
   working.  Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.
  
 
 It is true.  Yes there's the electro-chemistry of the body and brain that 
 provides a shell for the subtle bodies that fluoresce as the faculties and 
 chakra energy fields which are the forms that the Unified Field as a soul 
 then embodies.  It is quite beautiful and elegant.  The degree to which this 
 shows itself depends on a lot of things and grace of Natural Law.  


Yep. Repent ye sinners spiritual, prepare ye the way.
Before it is too late.  Life is for the living while you have it.
There is much to do. Come to meditation.  



 -Buck







[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-13 Thread Yifu
Let me get this straight. Dr. Pete was into TM, then SBS's 
programs;...definitely brain changing techniques!  (no brainer).
...
Indonesia's President, Susilo Bamgang Yudhoyono's
 composition From Jakarto Oslo for Our World:
...
Far away from the edge of the world
I come to bring hope
Together, allied, the servants of God
We must unite to save
The Purity of our world.



:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
  
One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament 
that enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain 
is working.  Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.
   
  
  It is true.  Yes there's the electro-chemistry of the body and brain that 
  provides a shell for the subtle bodies that fluoresce as the faculties and 
  chakra energy fields which are the forms that the Unified Field as a soul 
  then embodies.  It is quite beautiful and elegant.  The degree to which 
  this shows itself depends on a lot of things and grace of Natural Law.  
 
 
 Yep. Repent ye sinners spiritual, prepare ye the way.
 Before it is too late.  Life is for the living while you have it.
 There is much to do. Come to meditation.  
 
 
 
  -Buck
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Susan


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote:
   
 
 
 I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and 
 clear.  If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to 
 destroy something to get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, 
 but my modifying how the brain functions.  I don't think so, but the 
 question is reasonable. One reason I think that these awakened states 
 are a good thing is when I think back to the sense of unity and light 
 that seemed to permeate my childhood years, I think that was really 
 good and that was and is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you are 
 right that all these concepts of enlightenment can just cloud the 
 waters, create misconceptions and lead people to intensely look in 
 all sorts of directions and buy all sorts of stuff - and miss the 
 point.  Personally, I find it a challenge to drop the whole MMY 
 rubric.  Guess that' one reason I can get hung up on the brain 
 functioning.
 

I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  
Big time.  It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating 
but I would not just wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities 
of how it can go to push the energy centers of the faculties around.  
Fortunately we both got enough of a whole back working that we can live 
on pretty well and even talk about it.  But the perspective was 
illuminating spiritually along the way.  

However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual 
practice that can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd 
recommend pursuing that also because now the science is showing that it 
(spiritual practice) indeed does change and enhance how a brain can 
work.  An aware person of modern spirituality and science certainly can 
sit up and have the experience.  If only by the science, people should 
take the time to come to meditation and not just talk or just write 
about it as an idea. Take the time in the practice.  It is different 
than surfing.

-Buck 

 
  http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
   
  
  ***
   
  
  
  Buck, I must have missed the info that you had a stroke.  Welcome back.  I 
  too would like to hear about your experience if you ever want to describe 
  it.  Yes, science is showing that meditation is really a good thing.  I am 
  reading Newberg's How God Changes Your Brain.  Really, the book is not just 
  about God or religion,  seems to be about how meditation, the idea of God, 
  thinking about anything abstract and uplifiting (even science) has similar 
  beneficial effects on the the brain.  Belief/religion/being part of a 
  community,ritual all have good effects.  And the brain is really malleable. 
   The authors do seem to find that different techniques have different 
  effects, but also that in general, most meditations are similar in their 
  action on the brain.   I have lots more to read and will get into some 
  specifics when I am done.  I am sure that your years of meditating are an 
  important aspect of your recovery.  Take care.
 
 
 
 Yeah, it is interesting.  In my experience with it, to have more full Self 
 realization it is way more than just transcending of the mind or mental 
 activity, meditating.  Meditating is the start of the work.  Waking is also 
 much more dependent on a stabilized and lit energy system. Many are the 
 chakras of the subtle that are in the grey matter of the brain and the 
 central nervous system. The mortal faculties are chakra fields themselves and 
 then there is the process of the whole energy system taken together which 
 houses and reflects an individuation of a soul.  
 
 As the injury of my stroke itself and then the brain surgery made for a 
 swollen and sore brain the different faculties got pushed around and tampered 
 with. And it was very evident where in the grey matter different mental 
 functions would happen.  As it happened in my case, the reference of a self 
 and then a soul in it all never got lost.  A lot pops out by contrast when 
 mental things don't work like before or malfunction and you watch it all 
 happen.  For quite a while I was very aware of where mental functions were 
 happening within a sore brain by contrast.  
 
 Through out the stroke and recovery, in my case, I never lost critical 
 witness or self-awareness as a soul.  But that too reflects variably as the 
 subtle system works well or decays.  Different parts of the energy bodies 
 will spin and turn on or dim out and a lot of time for no apparent reason.  
 It is like there is a decay in the rotation of a chakra and and the 
 reflectivity of the self dims out.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Buck




 
 Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a 
 human being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery 
 for extended periods; TM not necessarily the only method used. 
 Maharishi made many claims about the outcome of practicing his 
 techniques of meditation. Since then, many people acknowledge that 
 they have experienced some or many or even all of what he said would 
 result; I'd put myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.
 
 The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, 
 though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state does 
 seem to confer a functional advantage: it allows the person to not 
 get caught up in whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, 
 in my experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience of joy 
 or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
 

It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light but it 
shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it is that you 
can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being is also what it is 
about.
-Buck in FF


  
  2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of experiences 
  Maharishi describes as higher states of consciousness, does it 
  improve anything that matters to us or is it just another POV?  As 
  billed it gives deeper insight into reality.  If this is the case 
  can anything be demonstrated that might indicate this or is it just 
  a cool buzz for the person with no added cognitive abilities that 
  you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish concert followed by a 
  night of shrooms
 
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Buck


 
  
  Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be 
  a human being, or at least fooled around with the internal 
  machinery for extended periods; TM not necessarily the only method 
  used. Maharishi made many claims about the outcome of practicing 
  his techniques of meditation. Since then, many people acknowledge 
  that they have experienced some or many or even all of what he said 
  would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.
  
  The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, 
  though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state 
  does seem to confer a functional advantage: it allows the person to 
  not get caught up in whatever turmoil is present in the situation. 
  And, in my experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience 
  of joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
  
 
 It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light but it 
 shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it is that you 
 can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being is also what it is 
 about.
 -Buck in FF
 
 

I think it is beautiful,we hold Curtis in the light here and now he has come 
back to meditation.  I'm working on his upgrade from blues to gospel now.
-Buck 


   
   2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
   experiences Maharishi describes as higher states of 
   consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to us or is 
   it just another POV?  As billed it gives deeper insight into 
   reality.  If this is the case can anything be demonstrated that 
   might indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person with 
   no added cognitive abilities that you could get from a few bong 
   hits at a Phish concert followed by a night of shrooms
  
  
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Buck
This just in:

This comes from a new book from MUM Press called, Transcendental Meditation 
with Questions and Answers.
___

Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
 
Maharishi: Yes.

 
  
   
   Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to 
   be a human being, or at least fooled around with the internal 
   machinery for extended periods; TM not necessarily the only 
   method used. Maharishi made many claims about the outcome of 
   practicing his techniques of meditation. Since then, many people 
   acknowledge that they have experienced some or many or even all 
   of what he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that 
   spectrum, too.
   
   The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . 
   what, though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative 
   state does seem to confer a functional advantage: it allows the 
   person to not get caught up in whatever turmoil is present in the 
   situation. And, in my experience, rather than diminish or drain 
   any experience of joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
   
  
  It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light but it 
  shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it is that 
  you can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being is also what 
  it is about.
  -Buck in FF
  
  
 
 I think it is beautiful,we hold Curtis in the light here and now he has come 
 back to meditation.  I'm working on his upgrade from blues to gospel now.
 -Buck 
 
 

2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
experiences Maharishi describes as higher states of 
consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to us or 
is it just another POV?  As billed it gives deeper insight into 
reality.  If this is the case can anything be demonstrated that 
might indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person 
with no added cognitive abilities that you could get from a few 
bong hits at a Phish concert followed by a night of shrooms
   
   
  
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Buck
Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
 
Maharishi: Yes.

Question: Are these suggestive powers the strength of one mind over another 
mind, or someting else?
 
Maharishi: There is mental healing through the power of the mind. But this 
healing power is a quality of the body. Some rays are being emitted all the 
time through the body, sometimes through the hands or other extremities of the 
body. Some constitutions develop more of these energy rays in their body, and 
when they meditate, greater energy is produced and begins to flow through their 
body. It is just a quality of the particular body. Some bodies gather more of 
these rays.


 This just in:
 
 This comes from a new book from MUM Press called, Transcendental Meditation 
 with Questions and Answers.
 ___
 
 Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
  
 Maharishi: Yes.
 
  
   

Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means 
to be a human being, or at least fooled around with the 
internal machinery for extended periods; TM not necessarily the 
only method used. Maharishi made many claims about the outcome 
of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since then, many 
people acknowledge that they have experienced some or many or 
even all of what he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere 
in that spectrum, too.

The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . 
what, though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic 
dissociative state does seem to confer a functional advantage: 
it allows the person to not get caught up in whatever turmoil 
is present in the situation. And, in my experience, rather than 
diminish or drain any experience of joy or happiness, it seems 
to substantiate it.

   
   It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light but 
   it shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it is 
   that you can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being is 
   also what it is about.
   -Buck in FF
   
   
  
  I think it is beautiful,we hold Curtis in the light here and now he has 
  come back to meditation.  I'm working on his upgrade from blues to gospel 
  now.
  -Buck 
  
  
 
 2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
 experiences Maharishi describes as higher states of 
 consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to us or 
 is it just another POV?  As billed it gives deeper insight 
 into reality.  If this is the case can anything be 
 demonstrated that might indicate this or is it just a cool 
 buzz for the person with no added cognitive abilities that 
 you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish concert 
 followed by a night of shrooms


   
  
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-12 Thread Buck



 Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
  
 Maharishi: Yes.
 
 Question: Are these suggestive powers the strength of one mind over another 
 mind, or someting else?
  
 Maharishi: There is mental healing through the power of the mind. But this 
 healing power is a quality of the body. Some rays are being emitted all the 
 time through the body, sometimes through the hands or other extremities of 
 the body. Some constitutions develop more of these energy rays in their body, 
 and when they meditate, greater energy is produced and begins to flow through 
 their body. It is just a quality of the particular body. Some bodies gather 
 more of these rays.


 Question: Placing the hands on the patient helps a great deal?
 
Maharishi: Because the healing power flows through their body. It flows through 
the hand, and if they touch the suffering part it seems to get relief. The 
healing power of the mind will not require any touching of the body; just a 
thought will do. There can also be healing through vision. A man comes before 
you, you look at him and he feels better--the same healing rays. Healing 
through speech--if someone has a headache one may say, 'You have just a 
headache, go home, it will be all right.' Some words are said and the headache 
comes to an end.


 
  This just in:
  
  This comes from a new book from MUM Press called, Transcendental 
  Meditation with Questions and Answers.
  ___
  
  Question: Some people have healing powers. They can cure other people.
   
  Maharishi: Yes.
  
   

 
 Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means 
 to be a human being, or at least fooled around with the 
 internal machinery for extended periods; TM not necessarily 
 the only method used. Maharishi made many claims about the 
 outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since 
 then, many people acknowledge that they have experienced some 
 or many or even all of what he said would result; I'd put 
 myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.
 
 The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . 
 what, though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic 
 dissociative state does seem to confer a functional 
 advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in 
 whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my 
 experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience of 
 joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
 

It's interesting that Unified Field, yes it's undifferentiated light 
but it shines and is in everyone.  A cool thing of being awakened to it 
is that you can take and shine it and help others with it.  Well-being 
is also what it is about.
-Buck in FF


   
   I think it is beautiful,we hold Curtis in the light here and now he has 
   come back to meditation.  I'm working on his upgrade from blues to gospel 
   now.
   -Buck 
   
   
  
  2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
  experiences Maharishi describes as higher states of 
  consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to us 
  or is it just another POV?  As billed it gives deeper 
  insight into reality.  If this is the case can anything be 
  demonstrated that might indicate this or is it just a cool 
  buzz for the person with no added cognitive abilities that 
  you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish concert 
  followed by a night of shrooms
 
 

   
  
 

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread nablusoss1008


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 
  Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  
  
  Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the 
  rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
  -Buck
 
 
 And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to meditation 
 too.


Not possible to see from his ramblings here :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 And non-meditators, what could they possibly have to offer here?
 -Buck in FF

Buck, since you hit the ground ranting again this week,
let's have a look at this particular rantlet, shall we?

I doubt I'm the only person here who sees your Come back
to meditation as what it really is -- Come back to TM.
I've never gotten the feeling that you have any more 
respect for people who practice other forms of meditation
than you do for your awful non-meditators. 

I don't think you understand. I never stopped meditating.
I doubt Vaj did, either. What we stopped was practicing
meditation with training wheels, that is to say, TM. I
haven't thought my original TM mantra in easily 30 years.
But that doesn't mean I don't meditate. I do, quite often.
Not to a fixed schedule, because I no longer see a value
in that, but when I feel like it, which is sometimes daily,
sometimes not. 

What I practice *when* I meditate are a variety of dif-
ferent techniques, taught to me by different teachers.
Some involve focus and concentration, some are just as
effortless as TM, and some are much more so (meaning
that there is NO object of focus like a mantra, and
thus nothing to come back to). I have simply left the
training wheels behind and ride a grown-up bike, without
them. 

But the biggest issue IMO is not what kind of bike one
rides, but *where one is going on it*. I no longer see
meditation as the central focus of my life. It's merely
an accessory *to* that life, a tiny part of it, no more
important than eating and sleeping and trying to do the
best I can for the people I run into along the Way. And 
that's just sitting meditation; given the variety of 
techniques I have learned over the years, I can just as 
easily be meditating while at the movies, or while walking, 
or while having sex, or even while writing to FFL. Can 
you say the same?

I know that to some extent your schtick here is to echo
what you hear around you in Fairfield. I kinda doubt
anyone ever really said these things; you're echoing things
you hear in your head. And one of those voices is IMO
the voice of elitism. You've still never shaken the 
belief you were indoctrinated with that meditators
(meaning TMers) are somehow better or more valuable
than either those who don't meditate or those who do
but who practice lesser forms of meditation.

I think that's a kind of low-rent 'tude, personally. It's
like saying What could a homeless person offer here?,
spoken by a member of a group who all have nice, cozy
houses and consider themselves superior to those who don't. 
One of the things you might learn from Curtis -- who I
have never seen being elitist w.r.t. his fellow man --
is the essential *equality* of all people. They all have
something to offer, no matter who or what they are. The
issue of whether they meditate or not doesn't really
factor into the equation at all.

By all means, please continue your exhortations to Come
back to meditation if you want. But from time to time
I might appeal to you to Come back to being a simple
human being, no better than any other human being.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread curtisdeltablues
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 
  Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  
  
  Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the 
  rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
  -Buck
 
 
 And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to meditation 
 too.


Actually I talked about this from when Maharishi died but you kept me on the 
others team for emotional traction.

The thing is the term come back to meditation is a misnomer because I don't 
buy any of Maharishi's teaching about his technique, from the medically bogus 
relieving stress in the nervous system to the fanciful rebranding of 
dissociative disorder symptoms as higher states of consciousness. 

Of course I have to accept that the people in the domes are creating World 
Peace by leaning on their chair jacks and snoozing but that has been proven!

The whole team concept gets in the way of an interesting series of questions:

1.  What does TM do in the brain and how does it change the way the brain 
communicates with itself?  This is the most interesting area for me and I 
believe with be the most fruitful.  We have to be open minded about this.  It 
may be good or bad and I suspect that dosage matters a lot.  There IS a too 
much of this alteration IMO from my experience.  

2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of experiences Maharishi 
describes ad higher states of consciousness, does it improve anything that 
matters to us or is it just another POV?  Ad billed it gives deeper insight 
into reality.  If this is the case can anything be demonstrated that might 
indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person with no added cognitive 
abilities that you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish concert followed 
by a night of shrooms with a co-ed in a peasant dress and the new Earth shoe, 
Sketchers.


But yes I like my TM.  Not to cultivate the promised benefits, but as a 
delightful change of gears like when I am preparing for a show after a long 
drive.  I think some version of meditation is useful in any hominid tool kit, 
till we find out it creates brain lesions that makes people crazy.  If that 
turns out to be what they find then I'll have to switch to the more 
traditionally popular show preparation of coke and hookers.  I have a healthy 
respect for tradition.








 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:
   
Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  
Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per 
se, only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!

(that's OK too)
   
   
   Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the 
   individual, then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The 
   one could not happen without the other. 
   Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he 
   felt the AoE was on safe grounds.
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread turquoiseb
Curtis, I shall follow in the footsteps of my fellow
minion Marek and praise you for your tasty choice of
both words and ideas...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 snippus interruptus
 The whole team concept gets in the way of an interesting 
 series of questions:
 
 1.  What does TM do in the brain and how does it change 
 the way the brain communicates with itself?  This is the 
 most interesting area for me and I believe with be the 
 most fruitful.  We have to be open minded about this.  
 It may be good or bad and I suspect that dosage matters 
 a lot.  There IS a too much of this alteration IMO from 
 my experience.  

And, I think, in most people's experience here if they 
have ever witnessed heavy unstressing, whether on a 
rounding course or out in the world.

 2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
 experiences Maharishi describes ad higher states of 
 consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to 
 us or is it just another POV?  

Bingo.

 As billed it gives deeper insight into reality. If this 
 is the case can anything be demonstrated that might 
 indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person 
 with no added cognitive abilities that you could get 
 from a few bong hits at a Phish concert followed by a 
 night of shrooms with a co-ed in a peasant dress and 
 the new Earth shoe, Sketchers.

This is essentially the same question that drives me.

Without the Phish concert and the Earth Shoe babe,
that is. I'm much more a Tangerine Dream or Keith
Jarrett concert kinda guy, accompanied by someone 
who looks stunning in high heels. :-)

 But yes I like my TM. Not to cultivate the promised 
 benefits, but as a delightful change of gears like 
 when I am preparing for a show after a long drive.  
 I think some version of meditation is useful in any 
 hominid tool kit, till we find out it creates brain 
 lesions that makes people crazy. If that turns out 
 to be what they find then I'll have to switch to the 
 more traditionally popular show preparation of coke 
 and hookers. I have a healthy respect for tradition.

Wouldn't it be cool if the different meditation 
orgs out there advertised their products according 
to the chemical highs they were supposed to replace?

Such groups could advertise their meditation techniques
as providing the same hit as popular recreational
chemicals. One technique would provide a guaranteed
Phish concert on shrooms in the company of a coed 
wearing Earth Shoes cool buzz. Another technique
would provide more of a coke and hookers buzz. :-)

H. There is a science fiction story in this...




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread marekreavis
This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing on this particular 
forum, for sure.

Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a human 
being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery for extended 
periods; TM not necessarily the only method used. Maharishi made many claims 
about the outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since then, many 
people acknowledge that they have experienced some or many or even all of what 
he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.

The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, though? 
Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state does seem to confer a 
functional advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in whatever 
turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my experience, rather than 
diminish or drain any experience of joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate 
it.

Isn't that (or something like that) what you experience when you are playing 
music -- a simultaneous separation and saturation in the expression? Isn't that 
also (to one degree or another) what you experience throughout the day? I know 
you've evaluated the dissociative state produced by meditation (as well as 
other means) as being undesirable and the rebranding of that/those state(s) as 
being higher states as basically wrong; but conceding that what those states 
of minds represent isn't known by any party, don't you feel that the resultant 
has value?

I'm thrashing around here, more than being very clear; maybe someone else can 
help me out.

***

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:
 
 2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of experiences Maharishi 
 describes ad higher states of consciousness, does it improve anything that 
 matters to us or is it just another POV?  Ad billed it gives deeper insight 
 into reality.  If this is the case can anything be demonstrated that might 
 indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person with no added 
 cognitive abilities that you could get from a few bong hits at a Phish 
 concert followed by a night of shrooms







[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread curtisdeltablues
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:

 Curtis, I shall follow in the footsteps of my fellow
 minion Marek and praise you for your tasty choice of
 both words and ideas...

Well you two were pretty much obligated to or you would have gotten a rash of 
shit from me for betraying our friendship!







 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  snippus interruptus
  The whole team concept gets in the way of an interesting 
  series of questions:
  
  1.  What does TM do in the brain and how does it change 
  the way the brain communicates with itself?  This is the 
  most interesting area for me and I believe with be the 
  most fruitful.  We have to be open minded about this.  
  It may be good or bad and I suspect that dosage matters 
  a lot.  There IS a too much of this alteration IMO from 
  my experience.  
 
 And, I think, in most people's experience here if they 
 have ever witnessed heavy unstressing, whether on a 
 rounding course or out in the world.
 
  2.  When people do enough TM to shift into the kind of 
  experiences Maharishi describes ad higher states of 
  consciousness, does it improve anything that matters to 
  us or is it just another POV?  
 
 Bingo.
 
  As billed it gives deeper insight into reality. If this 
  is the case can anything be demonstrated that might 
  indicate this or is it just a cool buzz for the person 
  with no added cognitive abilities that you could get 
  from a few bong hits at a Phish concert followed by a 
  night of shrooms with a co-ed in a peasant dress and 
  the new Earth shoe, Sketchers.
 
 This is essentially the same question that drives me.
 
 Without the Phish concert and the Earth Shoe babe,
 that is. I'm much more a Tangerine Dream or Keith
 Jarrett concert kinda guy, accompanied by someone 
 who looks stunning in high heels. :-)
 
  But yes I like my TM. Not to cultivate the promised 
  benefits, but as a delightful change of gears like 
  when I am preparing for a show after a long drive.  
  I think some version of meditation is useful in any 
  hominid tool kit, till we find out it creates brain 
  lesions that makes people crazy. If that turns out 
  to be what they find then I'll have to switch to the 
  more traditionally popular show preparation of coke 
  and hookers. I have a healthy respect for tradition.
 
 Wouldn't it be cool if the different meditation 
 orgs out there advertised their products according 
 to the chemical highs they were supposed to replace?
 
 Such groups could advertise their meditation techniques
 as providing the same hit as popular recreational
 chemicals. One technique would provide a guaranteed
 Phish concert on shrooms in the company of a coed 
 wearing Earth Shoes cool buzz. Another technique
 would provide more of a coke and hookers buzz. :-)
 
 H. There is a science fiction story in this...





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread curtisdeltablues
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:

 This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing on this 
 particular forum, for sure.
 
 Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a human 
 being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery for extended 
 periods; TM not necessarily the only method used. Maharishi made many claims 
 about the outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since then, 
 many people acknowledge that they have experienced some or many or even all 
 of what he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that spectrum, too.
 
 The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, though? 
 Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state does seem to confer 
 a functional advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in whatever 
 turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my experience, rather than 
 diminish or drain any experience of joy or happiness, it seems to 
 substantiate it.
 
 Isn't that (or something like that) what you experience when you are playing 
 music -- a simultaneous separation and saturation in the expression? Isn't 
 that also (to one degree or another) what you experience throughout the day? 
 I know you've evaluated the dissociative state produced by meditation (as 
 well as other means) as being undesirable and the rebranding of that/those 
 state(s) as being higher states as basically wrong; but conceding that what 
 those states of minds represent isn't known by any party, don't you feel that 
 the resultant has value?


Thanks for picking up this ball Marek!  This is the deeper interest I have 
posting here, exploring this topic.  And I have been evolving my view on this 
through the years here.  Let's see if I can clarify:

1.  I believe that the state induced in meditation can be beneficial for some 
people who lack the ability to step back from themselves and be less driven by 
impulse.  It is a basic cognitive skill that is discussed in NLP a lot.  Their 
model of the usefulness of this state has helped shape my thinking.  They see 
it as context dependent.  They see a functional mind as being able to shift 
from one perspective to another.  Say you are being criticized.  Being able to 
separate yourself a bit allows you to compare what they are saying with your 
own perspective to see if it is accurate,minimizing the effect of your natural 
defensiveness.  We used to practice it as at technique and I find it really 
helpful.  But if you get stuck in that dissociation you miss out on the direct 
sensation of emotion which is better for say, making love.  (That is where 
thinking about baseball comes in!)

2.  If you meditate or particularly round enough, you get stuck IMO in a 
dissociative state and that gives rise to a lot of problems.  The biggest one 
is a decreased ability to distinguish your enhanced internal experience of 
ideas with their epistemological reliability.  People with this state 
heightened, experience all sorts of things which I now theorize is a 
breakdown in the internal and external vision wall.  Our imagination take wings 
literally and we can see angels. 

I am jumping around here in delight that you might pursue how you are thinking 
of this these days.

My performance state is a great reference because it represents what I now 
believe is a way for me to trick my brain into serving up my unconscious 
capabilities more directly.  It is a fluid flow between conscious and 
unconscious, but it is key that the silent part of my mind can't dominate to 
work best.  Sometimes I need to tweak it with some meditation, but the biggest 
factor is the need of the times.  I am being facetious here but it is the 
context that pulls out the state like when you are surfing.  We are doing these 
activities to draw out the state because it is really pleasurable and it brings 
out our talents. we need to push ourselves in contexts that force us into 
functioning at our peak.

What passes for my lame version of spirituality these days, is trying to see 
how I can access this state without an audience in front of me.  Its funny but 
most of my practice is in front of an imaginary audience, usually my upcoming 
gig.  By the time I hit the stage I have acted it out internally many times and 
I feel this solidity and relaxation when I perform. But because every audience 
is different, I am also challenged to react in the moment, and this leads to 
some cool stuff.  Same in public speaking, same dynamic.  When I am teaching I 
am floating in the same place of balance. 

I'm rambling here but please respond with your angle on this on or offline.  
This is really important to me and I appreciate your picking it up for 
discussion. 









 





 
 I'm thrashing around here, more than being very clear; maybe someone else can 
 help me out.
 
 ***
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
 
  This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing 
  on this particular forum, for sure.
  
  Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it 
  means to be a human being, or at least fooled around with 
  the internal machinery for extended periods; TM not 
  necessarily the only method used. Maharishi made many 
  claims about the outcome of practicing his techniques 
  of meditation. Since then, many people acknowledge that 
  they have experienced some or many or even all of what he 
  said would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that spectrum, 
  too.
  
  The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . 
  what, though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic 
  dissociative state does seem to confer a functional 
  advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in 
  whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my 
  experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience 
  of joy or happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
  
  Isn't that (or something like that) what you experience 
  when you are playing music -- a simultaneous separation 
  and saturation in the expression? Isn't that also (to 
  one degree or another) what you experience throughout 
  the day? I know you've evaluated the dissociative state 
  produced by meditation (as well as other means) as being 
  undesirable and the rebranding of that/those state(s) as 
  being higher states as basically wrong; but conceding 
  that what those states of minds represent isn't known by 
  any party, don't you feel that the resultant has value?
 
 Thanks for picking up this ball Marek!  This is the deeper 
 interest I have posting here, exploring this topic. And I 
 have been evolving my view on this through the years here.  
 Let's see if I can clarify:
 
 1.  I believe that the state induced in meditation can be 
 beneficial for some people who lack the ability to step back 
 from themselves and be less driven by impulse.  It is a basic 
 cognitive skill that is discussed in NLP a lot.  Their model 
 of the usefulness of this state has helped shape my thinking.  
 They see it as context dependent.  They see a functional mind 
 as being able to shift from one perspective to another.  Say 
 you are being criticized.  Being able to separate yourself a 
 bit allows you to compare what they are saying with your own 
 perspective to see if it is accurate,minimizing the effect of 
 your natural defensiveness.  We used to practice it as at 
 technique and I find it really helpful.  But if you get stuck 
 in that dissociation you miss out on the direct sensation of 
 emotion which is better for say, making love. (That is where 
 thinking about baseball comes in!)

This is one reason I like you, Curtis. You are Tantric.
You follow some of the most high-rent rap ever seen on
this forum with a (in some people's eyes) low-rent one-
liner that makes people (or at least me) laugh out loud. 
Much appreciated. LOL.

 2.  If you meditate or particularly round enough, you get stuck 
 IMO in a dissociative state and that gives rise to a lot of 
 problems.  The biggest one is a decreased ability to distinguish 
 your enhanced internal experience of ideas with their 
 epistemological reliability.  People with this state heightened, 
 experience all sorts of things which I now theorize is a 
 breakdown in the internal and external vision wall.  Our 
 imagination take wings literally and we can see angels. 
 
 I am jumping around here in delight that you might pursue how 
 you are thinking of this these days.
 
 My performance state is a great reference because it represents 
 what I now believe is a way for me to trick my brain into serving 
 up my unconscious capabilities more directly.  It is a fluid flow 
 between conscious and unconscious, but it is key that the silent 
 part of my mind can't dominate to work best.  

This is pretty much how I feel about writing. I am no 
musician, Curtis, and have never been blessed enough
to be one. I was always a crappy guitarist, and never
much progressed beyond crappy. But at a typewriter or
computer keyboard, I rock. I don't need to look at the
keys to read the notes, I don't have to think about
what I am writing at all. My self almost steps out of
the way and (because I'm a fast typist), what I think
appears on the screen almost at the same moment it 
appears in my mind.

One reason I like Fairfield Life (despite its challenges)
is that it affords me an environment in which I can take
advantage of this ability to write quickly, while trying
not to get in my own way. Contrary to what someone suggested
recently, I almost NEVER pre-plan any post I make here.
If the first few sentences of a person's post inspires me
to reply to it, I often hit Reply and start typing before
I've read the whole thing. I like things more 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread marekreavis
Curtis, for me that shift of attention from one state of mind (i.e., from 
dissociative state to emotionally engaged state) doesn't occur; or, to the 
degree it occurs, there's still a fundamental not doing, uninvolved, 
separateness that exists within which these shifts happen. So my experience 
matches some descriptions that Maharishi, and others, have characterized as 
resultant from spiritual practices and, consequently, valuable.

I endorse their value for me, too, and it's always puzzled me that you've found 
them to be less than desirable. What you've explained below re NLP's 
characterization of the dissociative state clarifies your position for me, as 
well as your experience during performance and its parallels with the surfing 
experience (and with similar portals like sex, teaching, and other highs). I'm 
a big fan of exalted experiences, too, but they seem to be just a version of 
the quotidian, different in degree but not in kind.

One thing you've spoken about on more than one occasion, and something that got 
me thinking, was the idea that a lot of these states of mind are resultant to 
the simple process of growing up and becoming an adult. Looking around, there 
seems to be quite a few exceptions to that premise, but I do consider that 
wherever I am in the course, The Meaning Of Life, it's likely that simply 
putting time and attention into the process may be the single, biggest factor 
in getting some answers.

***


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
 
  This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing on this 
  particular forum, for sure.
  
  Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a human 
  being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery for extended 
  periods; TM not necessarily the only method used. Maharishi made many 
  claims about the outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. Since 
  then, many people acknowledge that they have experienced some or many or 
  even all of what he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere in that 
  spectrum, too.
  
  The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, though? 
  Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state does seem to 
  confer a functional advantage: it allows the person to not get caught up in 
  whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my experience, rather 
  than diminish or drain any experience of joy or happiness, it seems to 
  substantiate it.
  
  Isn't that (or something like that) what you experience when you are 
  playing music -- a simultaneous separation and saturation in the 
  expression? Isn't that also (to one degree or another) what you experience 
  throughout the day? I know you've evaluated the dissociative state produced 
  by meditation (as well as other means) as being undesirable and the 
  rebranding of that/those state(s) as being higher states as basically 
  wrong; but conceding that what those states of minds represent isn't known 
  by any party, don't you feel that the resultant has value?
 
 
 Thanks for picking up this ball Marek!  This is the deeper interest I have 
 posting here, exploring this topic.  And I have been evolving my view on this 
 through the years here.  Let's see if I can clarify:
 
 1.  I believe that the state induced in meditation can be beneficial for some 
 people who lack the ability to step back from themselves and be less driven 
 by impulse.  It is a basic cognitive skill that is discussed in NLP a lot.  
 Their model of the usefulness of this state has helped shape my thinking.  
 They see it as context dependent.  They see a functional mind as being able 
 to shift from one perspective to another.  Say you are being criticized.  
 Being able to separate yourself a bit allows you to compare what they are 
 saying with your own perspective to see if it is accurate,minimizing the 
 effect of your natural defensiveness.  We used to practice it as at technique 
 and I find it really helpful.  But if you get stuck in that dissociation you 
 miss out on the direct sensation of emotion which is better for say, making 
 love.  (That is where thinking about baseball comes in!)
 
 2.  If you meditate or particularly round enough, you get stuck IMO in a 
 dissociative state and that gives rise to a lot of problems.  The biggest one 
 is a decreased ability to distinguish your enhanced internal experience of 
 ideas with their epistemological reliability.  People with this state 
 heightened, experience all sorts of things which I now theorize is a 
 breakdown in the internal and external vision wall.  Our imagination take 
 wings literally and we can see angels. 
 
 I am jumping around here in delight that you might pursue how you are 
 thinking of this these days.
 
 My performance state is a great reference because it represents what I now 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Susan


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:

 Curtis, for me that shift of attention from one state of mind (i.e., from 
 dissociative state to emotionally engaged state) doesn't occur; or, to the 
 degree it occurs, there's still a fundamental not doing, uninvolved, 
 separateness that exists within which these shifts happen. So my experience 
 matches some descriptions that Maharishi, and others, have characterized as 
 resultant from spiritual practices and, consequently, valuable.

Question for you Marek:  Do you ever miss the prior state?  Would you go back 
to it?  Was it emotionally richer or more intense?

It seems to me that there are 2 reasons to start something like TM or most 
other types of meditation: health (emotional and physical) and/or 
enlightenment. We all started with the CC, GC, UC model and any taste we had of 
all that compelled us to continue.  We were told it was the goal, and it felt 
really good, too.   Just about everyone here on FFL has put in tens of 
thousands of hours in meditation, yoga, pranayam trying to get our brains to 
function in that way. 

But most people these days are into health and feeling good.  Enlightenment, 
unless it is promoted via some organization like TM, is not on people's radar. 
We are more into a medical/science model at this time.   I think in the future 
it will be really interesting to see what scientists come up with when studying 
the brains of Enlightened people.  They will nail down the specifics of just 
how the process occurs and how the brain works to create the awakened sense.  I 
am sure there will discussion about whether this is healthy brain functioning, 
or not. And who knows, maybe people will be able to sample that state and 
decide if it is what they want to work towards.

One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament that 
enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain is working.  
Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.


 
 I endorse their value for me, too, and it's always puzzled me that you've 
 found them to be less than desirable. What you've explained below re NLP's 
 characterization of the dissociative state clarifies your position for me, as 
 well as your experience during performance and its parallels with the surfing 
 experience (and with similar portals like sex, teaching, and other highs). 
 I'm a big fan of exalted experiences, too, but they seem to be just a version 
 of the quotidian, different in degree but not in kind.
 
 One thing you've spoken about on more than one occasion, and something that 
 got me thinking, was the idea that a lot of these states of mind are 
 resultant to the simple process of growing up and becoming an adult. 
 Looking around, there seems to be quite a few exceptions to that premise, but 
 I do consider that wherever I am in the course, The Meaning Of Life, it's 
 likely that simply putting time and attention into the process may be the 
 single, biggest factor in getting some answers.
 
 ***
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
  
   This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing on this 
   particular forum, for sure.
   
   Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a 
   human being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery for 
   extended periods; TM not necessarily the only method used. Maharishi made 
   many claims about the outcome of practicing his techniques of meditation. 
   Since then, many people acknowledge that they have experienced some or 
   many or even all of what he said would result; I'd put myself somewhere 
   in that spectrum, too.
   
   The value of those experiences or states of mind are . . . what, 
   though? Curtis, what you might term a chronic dissociative state does 
   seem to confer a functional advantage: it allows the person to not get 
   caught up in whatever turmoil is present in the situation. And, in my 
   experience, rather than diminish or drain any experience of joy or 
   happiness, it seems to substantiate it.
   
   Isn't that (or something like that) what you experience when you are 
   playing music -- a simultaneous separation and saturation in the 
   expression? Isn't that also (to one degree or another) what you 
   experience throughout the day? I know you've evaluated the dissociative 
   state produced by meditation (as well as other means) as being 
   undesirable and the rebranding of that/those state(s) as being higher 
   states as basically wrong; but conceding that what those states of minds 
   represent isn't known by any party, don't you feel that the resultant has 
   value?
  
  
  Thanks for picking up this ball Marek!  This is the deeper interest I have 
  posting here, exploring this topic.  And I have been evolving my view on 
  this 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread marekreavis
Hey, Susan. I don't know if I could say anything about a prior state. To 
whatever degree I have any insight into how mind and awareness develops and 
works, I'd say that there's a realization of a fundamental non-involved and 
continuous awareness. And, yes, an absence of sense of self that I once had, 
but it's difficult to pin down what anyone actually means by self anyway.

This awareness is supported, in no small measure, by the fortunate 
circumstances of my birth, living in a place and time in history characterized 
by unparalleled affluence on a large scale. Moreover, I'm smart enough and 
educated enough to have found a profession that pays a livable wage and get to 
live in an area of the country of singular beauty and grandeur. And, finally, 
I'm still young enough and healthy enough to challenge all my faculties in the 
most extraordinary activity of my life, surfing.

But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in Jill Bolte 
Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of the etiology, seem 
both valuable and realizable.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html 

***

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
 
  Curtis, for me that shift of attention from one state of mind (i.e., from 
  dissociative state to emotionally engaged state) doesn't occur; or, to the 
  degree it occurs, there's still a fundamental not doing, uninvolved, 
  separateness that exists within which these shifts happen. So my experience 
  matches some descriptions that Maharishi, and others, have characterized as 
  resultant from spiritual practices and, consequently, valuable.
 
 Question for you Marek:  Do you ever miss the prior state?  Would you go back 
 to it?  Was it emotionally richer or more intense?
 
 It seems to me that there are 2 reasons to start something like TM or most 
 other types of meditation: health (emotional and physical) and/or 
 enlightenment. We all started with the CC, GC, UC model and any taste we had 
 of all that compelled us to continue.  We were told it was the goal, and it 
 felt really good, too.   Just about everyone here on FFL has put in tens of 
 thousands of hours in meditation, yoga, pranayam trying to get our brains to 
 function in that way. 
 
 But most people these days are into health and feeling good.  Enlightenment, 
 unless it is promoted via some organization like TM, is not on people's 
 radar. We are more into a medical/science model at this time.   I think in 
 the future it will be really interesting to see what scientists come up with 
 when studying the brains of Enlightened people.  They will nail down the 
 specifics of just how the process occurs and how the brain works to create 
 the awakened sense.  I am sure there will discussion about whether this is 
 healthy brain functioning, or not. And who knows, maybe people will be able 
 to sample that state and decide if it is what they want to work towards.
 
 One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament that 
 enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain is working. 
  Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.
 
 
  
  I endorse their value for me, too, and it's always puzzled me that you've 
  found them to be less than desirable. What you've explained below re NLP's 
  characterization of the dissociative state clarifies your position for me, 
  as well as your experience during performance and its parallels with the 
  surfing experience (and with similar portals like sex, teaching, and other 
  highs). I'm a big fan of exalted experiences, too, but they seem to be just 
  a version of the quotidian, different in degree but not in kind.
  
  One thing you've spoken about on more than one occasion, and something that 
  got me thinking, was the idea that a lot of these states of mind are 
  resultant to the simple process of growing up and becoming an adult. 
  Looking around, there seems to be quite a few exceptions to that premise, 
  but I do consider that wherever I am in the course, The Meaning Of Life, 
  it's likely that simply putting time and attention into the process may be 
  the single, biggest factor in getting some answers.
  
  ***
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
   
This (Curtis' paragraph below) is something worth discussing on this 
particular forum, for sure.

Everyone here has experimented pretty deeply in what it means to be a 
human being, or at least fooled around with the internal machinery 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote:
 
  And non-meditators, what could they possibly have to offer here?
  -Buck in FF
 
 Buck, since you hit the ground ranting again this week,
 let's have a look at this particular rantlet, shall we?
 
 I doubt I'm the only person here who sees your Come back
 to meditation as what it really is -- Come back to TM.
 I've never gotten the feeling that you have any more 
 respect for people who practice other forms of meditation
 than you do for your awful non-meditators. 
 

Turq, spiritual growth evidently comes through transcendence.  It's an amazing 
opportunity of a lifetime that comes with a human life.  In a very most 
inclusive way we could grant that where there is transcendence there is tm.  
However, my people could not possibly grant that there is transcendence in 
every form of meditation, and the science seems to validate this fact also.  
I'm all for TM and tm in any form what works.  Nothing elitist about that.   
Know this to be that which you are seeking... 

-Buck in FF




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Susan


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:

 Hey, Susan. I don't know if I could say anything about a prior state. To 
 whatever degree I have any insight into how mind and awareness develops and 
 works, I'd say that there's a realization of a fundamental non-involved and 
 continuous awareness. And, yes, an absence of sense of self that I once had, 
 but it's difficult to pin down what anyone actually means by self anyway.
 
 This awareness is supported, in no small measure, by the fortunate 
 circumstances of my birth, living in a place and time in history 
 characterized by unparalleled affluence on a large scale. Moreover, I'm smart 
 enough and educated enough to have found a profession that pays a livable 
 wage and get to live in an area of the country of singular beauty and 
 grandeur. And, finally, I'm still young enough and healthy enough to 
 challenge all my faculties in the most extraordinary activity of my life, 
 surfing.

Yes. This all is really good.  Enjoy!!
 
 But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
 confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
 characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
 illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in Jill 
 Bolte Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of the 
 etiology, seem both valuable and realizable.

I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and clear.  
If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy something to 
get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my modifying how the brain 
functions.  I don't think so, but the question is reasonable. One reason I 
think that these awakened states are a good thing is when I think back to the 
sense of unity and light that seemed to permeate my childhood years, I think 
that was really good and that was and is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you 
are right that all these concepts of enlightenment can just cloud the waters, 
create misconceptions and lead people to intensely look in all sorts of 
directions and buy all sorts of stuff - and miss the point.  Personally, I find 
it a challenge to drop the whole MMY rubric.  Guess that' one reason I can get 
hung up on the brain functioning.
 
 http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html 
 
 ***
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@ wrote:
  
   Curtis, for me that shift of attention from one state of mind (i.e., 
   from dissociative state to emotionally engaged state) doesn't occur; or, 
   to the degree it occurs, there's still a fundamental not doing, 
   uninvolved, separateness that exists within which these shifts happen. So 
   my experience matches some descriptions that Maharishi, and others, have 
   characterized as resultant from spiritual practices and, consequently, 
   valuable.
  
  Question for you Marek:  Do you ever miss the prior state?  Would you go 
  back to it?  Was it emotionally richer or more intense?
  
  It seems to me that there are 2 reasons to start something like TM or most 
  other types of meditation: health (emotional and physical) and/or 
  enlightenment. We all started with the CC, GC, UC model and any taste we 
  had of all that compelled us to continue.  We were told it was the goal, 
  and it felt really good, too.   Just about everyone here on FFL has put in 
  tens of thousands of hours in meditation, yoga, pranayam trying to get our 
  brains to function in that way. 
  
  But most people these days are into health and feeling good.  
  Enlightenment, unless it is promoted via some organization like TM, is not 
  on people's radar. We are more into a medical/science model at this time.   
  I think in the future it will be really interesting to see what scientists 
  come up with when studying the brains of Enlightened people.  They will 
  nail down the specifics of just how the process occurs and how the brain 
  works to create the awakened sense.  I am sure there will discussion about 
  whether this is healthy brain functioning, or not. And who knows, maybe 
  people will be able to sample that state and decide if it is what they want 
  to work towards.
  
  One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament that 
  enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain is 
  working.  Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.
  
  
   
   I endorse their value for me, too, and it's always puzzled me that you've 
   found them to be less than desirable. What you've explained below re 
   NLP's characterization of the dissociative state clarifies your position 
   for me, as well as your experience during performance and its parallels 
   with the surfing experience (and with similar portals like sex, teaching, 
   and other 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:

 
 
  
  
  But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
  confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
  characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
  illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in Jill 
  Bolte Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of the 
  etiology, seem both valuable and realizable.
 
 I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and clear.  
 If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy something to 
 get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my modifying how the 
 brain functions.  I don't think so, but the question is reasonable. One 
 reason I think that these awakened states are a good thing is when I think 
 back to the sense of unity and light that seemed to permeate my childhood 
 years, I think that was really good and that was and is a flavor of 
 awakening.  I do think you are right that all these concepts of enlightenment 
 can just cloud the waters, create misconceptions and lead people to intensely 
 look in all sorts of directions and buy all sorts of stuff - and miss the 
 point.  Personally, I find it a challenge to drop the whole MMY rubric.  
 Guess that' one reason I can get hung up on the brain functioning.
 

I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  Big time.  
It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating but I would not just 
wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities of how it can go to push the 
energy centers of the faculties around.  Fortunately we both got enough of a 
whole back working that we can live on pretty well and even talk about it.  But 
the perspective was illuminating spiritually along the way.  

However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual practice that 
can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd recommend pursuing that 
also because now the science is showing that it (spiritual practice) indeed 
does change and enhance how a brain can work.  An aware person of modern 
spirituality and science certainly can sit up and have the experience.  If only 
by the science, people should take the time to come to meditation and not just 
talk or just write about it as an idea. Take the time in the practice.  It is 
different than surfing.

-Buck 

 
  http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
   
  
  ***




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread nablusoss1008


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
  
   
   
   But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
   confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
   characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
   illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in Jill 
   Bolte Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of the 
   etiology, seem both valuable and realizable.
  
  I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and 
  clear.  If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy 
  something to get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my 
  modifying how the brain functions.  I don't think so, but the question is 
  reasonable. One reason I think that these awakened states are a good thing 
  is when I think back to the sense of unity and light that seemed to 
  permeate my childhood years, I think that was really good and that was and 
  is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you are right that all these concepts 
  of enlightenment can just cloud the waters, create misconceptions and lead 
  people to intensely look in all sorts of directions and buy all sorts of 
  stuff - and miss the point.  Personally, I find it a challenge to drop the 
  whole MMY rubric.  Guess that' one reason I can get hung up on the brain 
  functioning.
  
 
 I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  Big 
 time.  It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating but I would 
 not just wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities of how it can go 
 to push the energy centers of the faculties around.  Fortunately we both got 
 enough of a whole back working that we can live on pretty well and even talk 
 about it.  But the perspective was illuminating spiritually along the way.  
 
 However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual practice 
 that can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd recommend pursuing 
 that also because now the science is showing that it (spiritual practice) 
 indeed does change and enhance how a brain can work.  An aware person of 
 modern spirituality and science certainly can sit up and have the experience. 
  



If only by the science, people should take the time to come to meditation and 
not just talk or just write about it as an idea. 

Well said.

Take the time in the practice.  It is different than surfing.

Or wasting time meditating while drinking coffee which is the Turq's favored 
pastetime these days :-)


 
 -Buck 
 
  
   http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

   
   ***





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:

  One more thing - I know Dr Pete, who used to post here, was adament that 
  enlightenment was not dependent on or a function of how the brain is 
  working.  Not sure why he felt that way.  I am just remembering that.
 

It is true.  Yes there's the electro-chemistry of the body and brain that 
provides a shell for the subtle bodies that fluoresce as the faculties and 
chakra energy fields which are the forms that the Unified Field as a soul then 
embodies.  It is quite beautiful and elegant.  The degree to which this shows 
itself depends on a lot of things and grace.  Pete knows and is right about 
this and i miss him around here.
-Buck  




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread marekreavis


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:

One reason I think that these awakened states are a good thing is when I think 
back to the sense of unity and light that seemed to permeate my childhood 
years, I think that was really good and that was and is a flavor of awakening. 
 

///

Susan, the flavor of childhood is exactly what I'm talking about, too.  That 
sums it up really well.

***



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread marekreavis
Sorry to hear of your stroke, Buck, glad to know that you came out on the other 
side. I would be interested to hear how your experiences with that relate to 
your concepts re awakening. 

You are obviously not in a position to speak knowledgeably about my life, 
however. 

***

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
  
   
   
   But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
   confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
   characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
   illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in Jill 
   Bolte Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of the 
   etiology, seem both valuable and realizable.
  
  I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and 
  clear.  If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy 
  something to get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my 
  modifying how the brain functions.  I don't think so, but the question is 
  reasonable. One reason I think that these awakened states are a good thing 
  is when I think back to the sense of unity and light that seemed to 
  permeate my childhood years, I think that was really good and that was and 
  is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you are right that all these concepts 
  of enlightenment can just cloud the waters, create misconceptions and lead 
  people to intensely look in all sorts of directions and buy all sorts of 
  stuff - and miss the point.  Personally, I find it a challenge to drop the 
  whole MMY rubric.  Guess that' one reason I can get hung up on the brain 
  functioning.
  
 
 I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  Big 
 time.  It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating but I would 
 not just wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities of how it can go 
 to push the energy centers of the faculties around.  Fortunately we both got 
 enough of a whole back working that we can live on pretty well and even talk 
 about it.  But the perspective was illuminating spiritually along the way.  
 
 However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual practice 
 that can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd recommend pursuing 
 that also because now the science is showing that it (spiritual practice) 
 indeed does change and enhance how a brain can work.  An aware person of 
 modern spirituality and science certainly can sit up and have the experience. 
  If only by the science, people should take the time to come to meditation 
 and not just talk or just write about it as an idea. Take the time in the 
 practice.  It is different than surfing.
 
 -Buck 
 
  
   http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

   
   ***





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Susan


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:

 Sorry to hear of your stroke, Buck, glad to know that you came out on the 
 other side. I would be interested to hear how your experiences with that 
 relate to your concepts re awakening. 
 
 You are obviously not in a position to speak knowledgeably about my life, 
 however. 
 
 ***
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote:
  
   
   


But I don't think any term like enlightenment does anything but cause 
confusion. Maharishi's use of the term and his many variations of its 
characteristics and methods of attaining it did more to obfuscate than 
illuminate (in my opinion). In contrast, I find lots to recommend in 
Jill Bolte Taylor's description of her experiences, which regardless of 
the etiology, seem both valuable and realizable.
   
   I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and 
   clear.  If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy 
   something to get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my 
   modifying how the brain functions.  I don't think so, but the question is 
   reasonable. One reason I think that these awakened states are a good 
   thing is when I think back to the sense of unity and light that seemed to 
   permeate my childhood years, I think that was really good and that was 
   and is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you are right that all these 
   concepts of enlightenment can just cloud the waters, create 
   misconceptions and lead people to intensely look in all sorts of 
   directions and buy all sorts of stuff - and miss the point.  Personally, 
   I find it a challenge to drop the whole MMY rubric.  Guess that' one 
   reason I can get hung up on the brain functioning.
   
  
  I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  Big 
  time.  It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating but I 
  would not just wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities of how it 
  can go to push the energy centers of the faculties around.  Fortunately we 
  both got enough of a whole back working that we can live on pretty well and 
  even talk about it.  But the perspective was illuminating spiritually along 
  the way.  
  
  However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual practice 
  that can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd recommend 
  pursuing that also because now the science is showing that it (spiritual 
  practice) indeed does change and enhance how a brain can work.  An aware 
  person of modern spirituality and science certainly can sit up and have the 
  experience.  If only by the science, people should take the time to come to 
  meditation and not just talk or just write about it as an idea. Take the 
  time in the practice.  It is different than surfing.
  
  -Buck 
  
   
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
 

***
 


Buck, I must have missed the info that you had a stroke.  Welcome back.  I too 
would like to hear about your experience if you ever want to describe it.  Yes, 
science is showing that meditation is really a good thing.  I am reading 
Newberg's How God Changes Your Brain.  Really, the book is not just about God 
or religion,  seems to be about how meditation, the idea of God, thinking about 
anything abstract and uplifiting (even science) has similar beneficial effects 
on the the brain.  Belief/religion/being part of a community,ritual all have 
good effects.  And the brain is really malleable.  The authors do seem to find 
that different techniques have different effects, but also that in general, 
most meditations are similar in their action on the brain.   I have lots more 
to read and will get into some specifics when I am done.  I am sure that your 
years of meditating are an important aspect of your recovery.  Take care.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-11 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote:

  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote:
  


I too like Jill Bolte Taylor's insights because it is kept simple and 
clear.  If I were in a contrary mood, I might ask if we have to destroy 
something to get that experience.  And not just by a stroke, but my 
modifying how the brain functions.  I don't think so, but the question 
is reasonable. One reason I think that these awakened states are a good 
thing is when I think back to the sense of unity and light that seemed 
to permeate my childhood years, I think that was really good and that 
was and is a flavor of awakening.  I do think you are right that all 
these concepts of enlightenment can just cloud the waters, create 
misconceptions and lead people to intensely look in all sorts of 
directions and buy all sorts of stuff - and miss the point.  
Personally, I find it a challenge to drop the whole MMY rubric.  Guess 
that' one reason I can get hung up on the brain functioning.

   
   I had the exact same experiences as her, same scenario and outcome.  Big 
   time.  It was extremely enlightening in that it was illuminating but I 
   would not just wish a stroke on anyone for all the possibilities of how 
   it can go to push the energy centers of the faculties around.  
   Fortunately we both got enough of a whole back working that we can live 
   on pretty well and even talk about it.  But the perspective was 
   illuminating spiritually along the way.  
   
   However, en lieu of having a stroke there is certainly spiritual practice 
   that can be done if one has the discipline to do it.  I'd recommend 
   pursuing that also because now the science is showing that it (spiritual 
   practice) indeed does change and enhance how a brain can work.  An aware 
   person of modern spirituality and science certainly can sit up and have 
   the experience.  If only by the science, people should take the time to 
   come to meditation and not just talk or just write about it as an idea. 
   Take the time in the practice.  It is different than surfing.
   
   -Buck 
   

 http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html
  
 
 ***
  
 
 
 Buck, I must have missed the info that you had a stroke.  Welcome back.  I 
 too would like to hear about your experience if you ever want to describe it. 
  Yes, science is showing that meditation is really a good thing.  I am 
 reading Newberg's How God Changes Your Brain.  Really, the book is not just 
 about God or religion,  seems to be about how meditation, the idea of God, 
 thinking about anything abstract and uplifiting (even science) has similar 
 beneficial effects on the the brain.  Belief/religion/being part of a 
 community,ritual all have good effects.  And the brain is really malleable.  
 The authors do seem to find that different techniques have different effects, 
 but also that in general, most meditations are similar in their action on the 
 brain.   I have lots more to read and will get into some specifics when I am 
 done.  I am sure that your years of meditating are an important aspect of 
 your recovery.  Take care.



Yeah, it is interesting.  In my experience with it, to have more full Self 
realization it is way more than just transcending of the mind or mental 
activity, meditating.  Meditating is the start of the work.  Waking is also 
much more dependent on a stabilized and lit energy system. Many are the chakras 
of the subtle that are in the grey matter of the brain and the central nervous 
system. The mortal faculties are chakra fields themselves and then there is the 
process of the whole energy system taken together which houses and reflects an 
individuation of a soul.  

As the injury of my stroke itself and then the brain surgery made for a swollen 
and sore brain the different faculties got pushed around and tampered with. And 
it was very evident where in the grey matter different mental functions would 
happen.  As it happened in my case, the reference of a self and then a soul in 
it all never got lost.  A lot pops out by contrast when mental things don't 
work like before or malfunction and you watch it all happen.  For quite a while 
I was very aware of where mental functions were happening within a sore brain 
by contrast.  

Through out the stroke and recovery, in my case, I never lost critical witness 
or self-awareness as a soul.  But that too reflects variably as the subtle 
system works well or decays.  Different parts of the energy bodies will spin 
and turn on or dim out and a lot of time for no apparent reason.  It is like 
there is a decay in the rotation of a chakra and and the reflectivity of the 
self dims out.  With a little attending to it can start up again, fluoresce and 
integrate with everything else again and well-being returns.  Sitting with the 
saints and some healers can 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-10 Thread Buck
Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  

Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the rise?  
Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
-Buck

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:
 
  Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  
  Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per se, 
  only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!
  
  (that's OK too)
 
 
 Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the individual, 
 then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The one could not 
 happen without the other. 
 Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he felt 
 the AoE was on safe grounds.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-10 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  
 
 Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the 
 rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
 -Buck


And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to meditation too.

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:
  
   Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  
   Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per se, 
   only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!
   
   (that's OK too)
  
  
  Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the 
  individual, then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The one 
  could not happen without the other. 
  Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he 
  felt the AoE was on safe grounds.
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-10 Thread Buck


 
  Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  
  
  Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the 
  rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
  -Buck
 
 
 And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to meditation 
 too.



It's one of those FFL spiritual oxymoron, that the thing that binds us most 
together on FFL is meditation. 
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:
   
Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  
Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per 
se, only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!

(that's OK too)
   
   
   Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the 
   individual, then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The 
   one could not happen without the other. 
   Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he 
   felt the AoE was on safe grounds.
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-10 Thread Buck


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

 
 
  
   Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  
   
   Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on the 
   rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
   -Buck
  
  
  And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to meditation 
  too.
 
 
 
 It's one of those FFL spiritual oxymoron, that the thing that binds us most 
 together on FFL is meditation. 


And non-meditators, what could they possibly have to offer here?
-Buck in FF
  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:

 Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture 
 in  Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment 
 per se, only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!
 
 (that's OK too)


Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the 
individual, then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The 
one could not happen without the other. 
Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he 
felt the AoE was on safe grounds.
   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-10 Thread Buck



 
 
 
 
  
  
   
Nablusoss this is beautiful really.  He was on script to the end.  

Did you notice that the number of proclaimed meditators on FFL is on 
the rise?  Vaj more recently definitively said he was a meditator.  
-Buck
   
   
   And CurtisDb too admitted recently here that he had come back to 
   meditation too.
  
  
  
  It's one of those FFL spiritual oxymoron, that the thing that binds us most 
  together on FFL is meditation. 
 
 
 And non-meditators, what could they possibly have to offer here?
 -Buck in FF


curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
Over the years posting here I have shifted my POV many times, sometimes 
radically.  I went from not meditating for 18 years to now viewing the 
practice as a useful tool now and then.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/post?act=replymessageNum=303762 
   

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@ wrote:
 
  Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture 
  in  Society in general and not interested in individual 
  enlightenment per se, only a personal Guru could/would want to do 
  that!
  
  (that's OK too)
 
 
 Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the 
 individual, then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. 
 The one could not happen without the other. 
 Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when 
 he felt the AoE was on safe grounds.

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-08 Thread nablusoss1008


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u anitaoaks4u@... wrote:

 Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  
 Society in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per se, 
 only a personal Guru could/would want to do that!
 
 (that's OK too)


Maharishi's first priority was the welfare (enlightenment) of the individual, 
then the ushering in The Age of Enlightenment, Utopia. The one could not happen 
without the other. 
Spreading Vedic culture was a bi-product, a leasurly activity when he felt 
the AoE was on safe grounds.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's final words to mankind

2012-02-07 Thread wgm4u
Proof that MMY was primarily concerned with spreading Vedic culture in  Society 
in general and not interested in individual enlightenment per se, only a 
personal Guru could/would want to do that!

(that's OK too)