[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > [new_morning wrote:] > > > Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor > > > stonehenge over all other ancient "sacred" sites to the > > > (mostly) exclusion of others? > > [I wrote:] > > Why are you asking me about aliens? > > This is interesting to see where you are drawing your > lines Judy. I thought your point is that it is unlikely > that humans could have done some of these circles. Right. But I've made it very clear that I'm not claiming it's aliens. That seems to me highly unlikely as well. > So who is on your short list of non human possibilities, > or do you just go up to: not likely to be humans? That's really it. I do not have a clue what it might be. I think whatever it is, it's probably something we know nothing about, that we don't even suspect exists. I think it's possible that it's responsible for or related to a whole bunch of the things we call "paranormal," some additional "dimension" or aspect to existence. Dunno. As I said in another post, if we get tied down to one particular theory, we may close off a whole lot of other possibilities and fail to see connections to other inexplicable phenomena. My *hunch* is they're all related in some way.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> > > Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor > > stonehenge over all other ancient "sacred" sites to the > > (mostly) exclusion of others? > > Why are you asking me about aliens? This is interesting to see where you are drawing your lines Judy. I thought your point is that it is unlikely that humans could have done some of these circles. So who is on your short list of non human possibilities, or do you just go up to: not likely to be humans? My list would start with highly organized rabbits. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > Here's another. These are stills, but they give you > > > a sense of the circles' variety and complexity (note > > > that you can see people standing in the first one): > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFKJJ5VMfWA > > > > > > > This utube has some nice looking things. However, the video > > says 90% of all global crop circles appear in Wiltshire Eng. > > > > That is such an odd fact. Why would there be such a high > > concentration in one spot? > > I don't think that's correct, actually. A lot of them > are, but I seriously doubt 90%. (People do *look* for > them in Wiltshire, though, because of its reputation. > Some crop circles in other locations might go unnoticed, > but that's unlikely in Wiltshire.) > > > One reasonable hypothesis is that there is a group in or > > near Wiltshire that has developed the talent and tools to > > do such works of art. > > It's reasonable only if location is all you take > into account. I wouldn't doubt there's a high > proportion of fakes thereabouts, though. > > > > Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor > > stonehenge over all other ancient "sacred" sites to the > > (mostly) exclusion of others? > > Why are you asking me about aliens? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Here's another. These are stills, but they give you > > a sense of the circles' variety and complexity (note > > that you can see people standing in the first one): > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFKJJ5VMfWA > > > > This utube has some nice looking things. However, the video > says 90% of all global crop circles appear in Wiltshire Eng. > > That is such an odd fact. Why would there be such a high > concentration in one spot? I don't think that's correct, actually. A lot of them are, but I seriously doubt 90%. (People do *look* for them in Wiltshire, though, because of its reputation. Some crop circles in other locations might go unnoticed, but that's unlikely in Wiltshire.) > One reasonable hypothesis is that there is a group in or > near Wiltshire that has developed the talent and tools to > do such works of art. It's reasonable only if location is all you take into account. I wouldn't doubt there's a high proportion of fakes thereabouts, though. > Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor > stonehenge over all other ancient "sacred" sites to the > (mostly) exclusion of others? Why are you asking me about aliens?
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:30 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably > >> explains a lot. > > > > Actually not. Most of the farmers don't want to be > > bothered. Some even cut down the crops in which > > circles have been made as soon as they appear. > > I see. They don't want to be bothered making $$, but they > don't mind going to all the trouble to cut down the crops. The idea is to discourage the whole thing. And yes, it's a lot less trouble to cut down the crops than it is to spend days admitting people to their fields and monitoring them to keep them from creating even more damage. > You'd think, considering that, that they might call for some > kind of investigation into who is messing up their land. They may have done. But it's extremely difficult to track down the circle hoaxers; you'd have to catch them in the act, and that's only happened a few times. In any case, a lot more damage is caused by the folks coming to see the circles than by the circle makers themselves.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:30 PM, authfriend wrote: I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably explains a lot. Actually not. Most of the farmers don't want to be bothered. Some even cut down the crops in which circles have been made as soon as they appear. I see. They don't want to be bothered making $$, but they don't mind going to all the trouble to cut down the crops. You'd think, considering that, that they might call for some kind of investigation into who is messing up their land. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:22 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > >> On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Hugo wrote: > >> > >>> I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal > >>> damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a > >>> lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went > >>> to look at. A nice little earner, eh? > >> > >> I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably > >> explains a lot. > > > > If you stomp it, they will come. > > And then they will pay. I think it's a lot more than just "Then they will pay." I think that the motivation behind most of these websites and fan(atic) organiz- ations is pretty much the same mentality as the one at the basis of "Field Of Dreams." That is, it's about that imaginary moment in the mind of every fanatic, the one that takes place somewhere in the imaginary future, where everyone is proven wrong, except for them. "They'll realize that all along WE were right and they were wrong, and THEN won't they be sorry." In other words, it's about "Then they will PAY," not just "Then they will pay." :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 28, 2008, at 2:22 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Hugo wrote: I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went to look at. A nice little earner, eh? I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably explains a lot. If you stomp it, they will come. And then they will pay. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Hugo wrote: > > I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal > > damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a > > lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went > > to look at. A nice little earner, eh? > > I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably > explains a lot. Actually not. Most of the farmers don't want to be bothered. Some even cut down the crops in which circles have been made as soon as they appear. NATIONAL FARMERS UNION DECLARES WAR ON CROPPIES - 01/08/2004 The UK farming community is getting stroppy about crop circles and their visitors The agricultural community has, inevitably, not always been very happy about the prospect of its fields being flattened, whether it be by ETs, natural forces or plankers. And to the National Farmers' Union (NFU), visitors to the resultant works don't help matters either. Some farmers in Wiltshire are becoming increasingly militant about preventing or deterring people from entering their fields, including, worryingly, some who had previously been tolerant of visitors. At least two formations this season have had their essential components cut out by combines to wipe out any reason to visit, whilst another has had high barbed wire piled around the entrances to the field. With this heightened battle in mind, the NFU has recently issued a statement designed to deter both plankers and visitors, though it does not address, unsurprisingly, any other potential sources of crop flattening The statement reads: Read the statement at: http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=742
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Hugo wrote: > > > I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal > > damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a > > lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went > > to look at. A nice little earner, eh? > > I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably > explains a lot. If you stomp it, they will come. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Hugo wrote: Hugo, JOOC, is all this legal, for people to go romping around in others' fileds? Have there ever been any arrests, for defacing or whatever? Sal It's definitely illegal but not sure how many have been caught. I have read of farmers getting annoyed at the loss of crops and other reports that the crops are still harvestable. Except for the ones made by aliens of course, they are damaged by the Woo-Woo rays and have to be destroyed. I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went to look at. A nice little earner, eh? I hadn't even thought of it from a $$-making angle, probably explains a lot. Maybe we should be checking farm implement catalogues for crop flattening devices. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > wrote: > > > Hugo, JOOC, is all this legal, for people to go romping > > > around in others' fileds? Have there ever been any > > > arrests, for defacing or whatever? BTW, there's a Code of Conduct for circle visitors and investigators: http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/conduct.html FOR VISITING THE CROP CIRCLES. In our attempt to become more responsible for giving out information on the locations for the Circles, we have published a Code of Conduct which was drawn up by the National Farmers Union in collaboration with the Centre for Crop Circle Studies. The Connector does not want to deny our readers the chance to visit a Crop Circle. It merely reminds you to ask for their permission to enter their fields. Do not go onto private land unless you have permission from the farmer or landowner. If you can't find the farmer or landowner to ask permission-you have no right to enter private property. IF you can not find the farmer DO NOT enter the field. IF you wander into a formation without permission and a farmer catches you, DO NOT argue with him if he wishes you to leave his land. Please Leave a "Calling Card" with the farmer or landowner containing details of your name, and address. Always use gates or stiles to enter fields, please do not climb fences. Always close gates after passing through them. Do not take you own vehicles into the fields. Cause as little damage to standing crops as possible. Always use the tramlines to access to the Crop Circles. ["Tramlines" are not streetcar lines but paths the farmers make in the crops for spraying and fertilizing purposes. See-- http://www.ukagriculture.com/crops/tramlines.cfm --for more details.--JS] Avoid making a track from an obvious point, i.e. gateways. Walk in single file using the same track to get to the Crop Circle when remote from tramlines. Do not take dogs into fields. Do not leave objects or litter behind. DO NOT SMOKE ON ANY ACCOUNT. Remember that your actions will largely dictate the goodwill or otherwise of farmers and landowners who ultimately hold the key to responsible circle research. Happy Circling!
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > wrote: > > > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Hugo wrote: > > > > >> How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 > > >> perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in > the > > >> process, as in the case of the > > >> > > > > > > Where does it say that not a single piece of straw was broken? > > > Even if it was the case would it mena anything, starw may be > > > tougher than it looks. > > > > Hugo, JOOC, is all this legal, for people to go romping around in > > others' fileds? Have there ever been any arrests, for defacing > > or whatever? > > > > Sal > > It's definitely illegal but not sure how many have been > caught. I have read of farmers getting annoyed at the loss > of crops and other reports that the crops are still > harvestable. Except for the ones made by aliens of course, > they are damaged by the Woo-Woo rays and have to be > destroyed. Um, exactly the opposite is the case. It's the human- made ones that tend to destroy the crops. > I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal > damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a > lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went > to look at. A nice little earner, eh? > > Maybe we should be checking farm implement catalogues for > crop flattening devices. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Hugo wrote: > > >> How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 > >> perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the > >> process, as in the case of the > >> > > > > Where does it say that not a single piece of straw was broken? > > Even if it was the case would it mena anything, starw may be > > tougher than it looks. > > Hugo, JOOC, is all this legal, for people to go romping around in > others' fileds? Have there ever been any arrests, for defacing > or whatever? > > Sal It's definitely illegal but not sure how many have been caught. I have read of farmers getting annoyed at the loss of crops and other reports that the crops are still harvestable. Except for the ones made by aliens of course, they are damaged by the Woo-Woo rays and have to be destroyed. I seem to remember one person being charged with criminal damage a few years back, but basically the farmers make a lot of money out of it. I paid £2 to see the last one I went to look at. A nice little earner, eh? Maybe we should be checking farm implement catalogues for crop flattening devices.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > FWIW, I'm inclined to suspect the ones that aren't > > > > based on circles are human-made. > > > > > > Why? > > > > Just a guess. > > > > > >> Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* > > > >> man had understood it. If it was a message from a > > > >> different intelligence why is it at exactly the same > > > >> level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century > > > > > > > LOL. First you're dubious because the formations > > > > aren't "meaningful," now you're dubious because > > > > this one *is* meaningful. Make up your mind, please! > > > > > > I don't think you understood that. Read it again. > > > > Actually I don't think you understood what I wrote. > > > > > Oh, OK. I'll explain, this would be more convincing if > > > it had appeard at a time when we didn't understand what > > > it was. > > > > In other words, when it would have been meaningless > > to us. > > Are you winding me up? > > > > As it is we could get pics like this from a high > > > school textbook. > > > > And therefore it's meaningful to us. > > > > Get it now? You say they should be meaningful, but > > then you say they should have been made in the 14th > > century when they *wouldn't* have been meaningful. > > No! I don't say they *should* be meaningful but they only > ever are with things we already know! They don't teach > us anything new! Whereas in the 14th century any mathe- > matical symbol that wasn't already known would be a revelation > to them. And you believe folks in the 14th century would have been able to derive the Julia set function from that crop circle, even though the mathematical theory for it wasn't created until the early 20th century? Er, rubbish. The point being that we don't even know if the circles are trying to teach us anything new. For all we know, some of them involve math that's as far beyond us as the Julia set would have been to the denizens of the 14th century. Me, I'm not even sure we should be looking for "lessons" in the circles, much less that lessons should be the primary criterion for the possibility that not all of them are made by humans. As I said, I think the most fruitful approach is not to get locked in to any concept of what the circles are about or who/what made them. That just limits our ability to come up with other, possibly more productive lines of investigation. > What we need by comparison from cricle makers these > days is perhaps a more advanced theory of quantum > mechanics that explains all the currently not understood > discrepancies in the subatomic world. That would be nice. > > My mind is made up, unless crop circles > > > suddenly teach us something we didn't know it is most > > > likely the work of man. > > > > > > > And in any case, the "message from a different > > > > intelligence" claim isn't one I'm making. > > > > > > Yes it is. > > > > Excuse me?? Please quote my having made such a > > claim, or admit I'm not making it. > > Read this below: Please quote the parts in which I make the claim that the circles are messages from a different intelligence. You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between making a claim and speculating. > > > > But if I were, I could make the argument that the > > > > "message" of a triple Julia set is, "This formation > > > > was made by an intelligent force with a knowledge > > > > of higher mathematics." > > > > > > See. If you think it was made by non-humans they > > > must have been smart enough to understand this. > > > > I don't think they're made by "non-humans," although > > I don't rule it out (or anything else out, for that > > matter). > > > > But of course if I'm wrong and they *were* made by > > non-humans, the non-humans would understand this. I > > don't get your point at all here, and I don't think > > you got mine either, because yours seems to be a > > non sequitur. > > > > > > It's not even clear what you mean by "meaningless > > > > shapes." It seems to me that any coherent pattern > > > > can't be said to be meaningless. I wonder if the > > > > word you're looking for isn't "abstract" rather than > > > > "meaningless" > > > > > > Meaningless in the sense that it's just a pretty pattern > > > rather than the message that ones like the fractal or > > > Julia set seem to be saying. Which is that we understand > > > maths to the same sort of level you do. Or to me it says; > > > These are pretty pictures that will make mugs think we > > > are as smart as them. > > > > Why do you not think that message involves meaning? > > Get out of town.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 28, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Hugo wrote: How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the process, as in the case of the Where does it say that not a single piece of straw was broken? Even if it was the case would it mena anything, starw may be tougher than it looks. Hugo, JOOC, is all this legal, for people to go romping around in others' fileds? Have there ever been any arrests, for defacing or whatever? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > > wrote: > > > > > FWIW, I'm inclined to suspect the ones that aren't > > > based on circles are human-made. > > > > Why? > > Just a guess. > > > >> Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* > > >> man had understood it. If it was a message from a > > >> different intelligence why is it at exactly the same > > >> level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century > > > > > LOL. First you're dubious because the formations > > > aren't "meaningful," now you're dubious because > > > this one *is* meaningful. Make up your mind, please! > > > > I don't think you understood that. Read it again. > > Actually I don't think you understood what I wrote. > > > Oh, OK. I'll explain, this would be more convincing if > > it had appeard at a time when we didn't understand what > > it was. > > In other words, when it would have been meaningless > to us. Are you winding me up? > As it is we could get pics like this from a high > > school textbook. > > And therefore it's meaningful to us. > > Get it now? You say they should be meaningful, but > then you say they should have been made in the 14th > century when they *wouldn't* have been meaningful. No! I don't say they *should* be meaningful but they only ever are with things we already know! They don't teach us anything new! Whereas in the 14th century any mathe- matical symbol that wasn't already known would be a revelation to them. What we need by comparison from cricle makers these days is perhaps a more advanced theory of quantum mechanics that explains all the currently not understood discrepancies in the subatomic world. > My mind is made up, unless crop circles > > suddenly teach us something we didn't know it is most > > likely the work of man. > > > > > And in any case, the "message from a different > > > intelligence" claim isn't one I'm making. > > > > Yes it is. > > Excuse me?? Please quote my having made such a > claim, or admit I'm not making it. Read this below: > > > But if I were, I could make the argument that the > > > "message" of a triple Julia set is, "This formation > > > was made by an intelligent force with a knowledge > > > of higher mathematics." > > > > See. If you think it was made by non-humans they > > must have been smart enough to understand this. > > I don't think they're made by "non-humans," although > I don't rule it out (or anything else out, for that > matter). > > But of course if I'm wrong and they *were* made by > non-humans, the non-humans would understand this. I > don't get your point at all here, and I don't think > you got mine either, because yours seems to be a > non sequitur. > > > > It's not even clear what you mean by "meaningless > > > shapes." It seems to me that any coherent pattern > > > can't be said to be meaningless. I wonder if the > > > word you're looking for isn't "abstract" rather than > > > "meaningless" > > > > Meaningless in the sense that it's just a pretty pattern > > rather than the message that ones like the fractal or > > Julia set seem to be saying. Which is that we understand > > maths to the same sort of level you do. Or to me it says; > > These are pretty pictures that will make mugs think we > > are as smart as them. > > Why do you not think that message involves meaning? Get out of town.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Communication is pretty much the bottom line for > me. A 'Rosetta Stone' indicates an interest in > communication. Being able to produce one indicates > a slightly higher level of tech than we currently > possess. That's what any aliens who really wanted > to communicate with humans would do. > > Writing squiggly meaningless designs that look > like the things the retard in the back of the > class used to draw in the margins of his books, > and doing it in the dead of night in fields that > hardly anyone ever goes to? > > That's what human beings would do. Sez Barry, absolutely determined not to let any of the facts confuse him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > wrote: > > > FWIW, I'm inclined to suspect the ones that aren't > > based on circles are human-made. > > Why? Just a guess. > >> Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* > >> man had understood it. If it was a message from a > >> different intelligence why is it at exactly the same > >> level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century > > > LOL. First you're dubious because the formations > > aren't "meaningful," now you're dubious because > > this one *is* meaningful. Make up your mind, please! > > I don't think you understood that. Read it again. Actually I don't think you understood what I wrote. > Oh, OK. I'll explain, this would be more convincing if > it had appeard at a time when we didn't understand what > it was. In other words, when it would have been meaningless to us. As it is we could get pics like this from a high > school textbook. And therefore it's meaningful to us. Get it now? You say they should be meaningful, but then you say they should have been made in the 14th century when they *wouldn't* have been meaningful. My mind is made up, unless crop circles > suddenly teach us something we didn't know it is most > likely the work of man. > > > And in any case, the "message from a different > > intelligence" claim isn't one I'm making. > > Yes it is. Excuse me?? Please quote my having made such a claim, or admit I'm not making it. > > But if I were, I could make the argument that the > > "message" of a triple Julia set is, "This formation > > was made by an intelligent force with a knowledge > > of higher mathematics." > > See. If you think it was made by non-humans they > must have been smart enough to understand this. I don't think they're made by "non-humans," although I don't rule it out (or anything else out, for that matter). But of course if I'm wrong and they *were* made by non-humans, the non-humans would understand this. I don't get your point at all here, and I don't think you got mine either, because yours seems to be a non sequitur. > > It's not even clear what you mean by "meaningless > > shapes." It seems to me that any coherent pattern > > can't be said to be meaningless. I wonder if the > > word you're looking for isn't "abstract" rather than > > "meaningless" > > Meaningless in the sense that it's just a pretty pattern > rather than the message that ones like the fractal or > Julia set seem to be saying. Which is that we understand > maths to the same sort of level you do. Or to me it says; > These are pretty pictures that will make mugs think we > are as smart as them. Why do you not think that message involves meaning? > > And as with the non-circle-based formations, I'm > > inclined to be suspicious of the origin of those > > that convey any concrete meaning, e.g., a model of > > the solar system. > > You can't decide which ones yopu consider "real" or > not based on things like that! Please read what I wrote. The phrase I used was "inclined to be suspicious." How did you turn that into the basis for a firm decision? It's way too biased. > What you need is something like the PBJresearch team > claim to have, definite non-fakeable physical traces. Right. So the ones I'm suspicious about are the first ones I'd look at, if I were a researcher, to see if they contained non-fakeable traces. If they didn't, I'd put them in the "very suspicious" pile. > That is all it's going to come down to unless they do > something no human *could* do, which sems along way off > given the fact that,so far, they are all circular based > and could have been caused by people pushing the crop > down with garden rollers even if they weren't. Occams razor. What about the "definite non-fakeable physical traces"? > > > And I don't trust the 20% > > > figure either, it will probably come down to the perps > > > wearing snow shoes or something, just to confuse the > > > researchers. > > > > You know enough by now, I think, about the characteristics > > of crop circles to be aware that this is a silly > > suggestion. > > Do I? I've been reading about this stuff for years, in fact > I bought my first copy of the Fortean Times (UKs journal of > open minded inquiry into claims of the paranormal) because > there was a crop circle on the front page. You don't seem to have absorbed much of the important information. I've grown > sceptical because of the amount of kiddology involved in > peope *wanting* crops to be trodden down in a non-human > way. I've stood in crop circles and watched them tell all > around that this is conclusive proof. That's pretty poor logic on your part. The serious researchers all acknowledge many of them are fakes. I don't know who these people were, or what exactly they said about how the crops were trodden down, but human-made
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (On the other hand, maybe there's no intelligence, > no intention, behind it at all; maybe it's just > the spontaneous manifestation of mathematical > principles. I mean, it seems to me the most fruitful > way to think about the [purportedly] non-human-made > crop circles is not to get locked in to any > particular conceptualization about who/what made > them and why.) Great thoughts Judy, points well taken indeed. Trouble is, the crop circles are becoming more and more refined and complicated almost by the hour these days. Anyone with an inkling towards the feeling that we are not alone, those that know that "Mother is at Home", knows that the future history of mankind is being pointed at, as signals and approvals from friends. They may be called anything anyone likes, but they are nevertheless our Space Brothers. "If they use maschines they are not highly evolved." - Maharishi My own brothers are unlikely to be very highly evolved. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've been reading about this stuff for years, in fact > I bought my first copy of the Fortean Times (UKs journal of > open minded inquiry into claims of the paranormal) because > there was a crop circle on the front page. I've grown > sceptical because of the amount of kiddology involved in > peope *wanting* crops to be trodden down in a non-human > way. I've stood in crop circles and watched them tell all > around that this is conclusive proof. > > It will take more than square ones (actually they still > have the spot in the middle the guy stands holding the end > of the rope to measure everything out) or complex mathematical > symbols to convince me now. Quite what it would take I don't > know. Unambiguous messages in an alien language maybe. Well said. For me it would take the crop circle counterpart of the Rosetta Stone. That is, it would take the existence of a fairly complete Pleaidian-to-English phrasebook to get my interest, and then a bunch of Pleaidians to chat with to hold it. Communication is pretty much the bottom line for me. A 'Rosetta Stone' indicates an interest in communication. Being able to produce one indicates a slightly higher level of tech than we currently possess. That's what any aliens who really wanted to communicate with humans would do. Writing squiggly meaningless designs that look like the things the retard in the back of the class used to draw in the margins of his books, and doing it in the dead of night in fields that hardly anyone ever goes to? That's what human beings would do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > > > > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > > > > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > > > > giveaway. > > > > > > Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of > > > them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic > > > of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, > > > very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire > > > in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. > > > > Yes, "some" of them are in interesting mathematical > > patterns. But what about the swallows or any of the others > > Nabluss has posted recently. And is it not a coincidence > > that all these shapes are based on circles, which are > > the easiest shape to make in a field at night, all you > > need is a piece of rope! > > How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 > perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the > process, as in the case of the > Where does it say that not a single piece of straw was broken? Even if it was the case would it mena anything, starw may be tougher than it looks. This segmant interested me: "This huge formation appeared close to the Neolithic long barrow called Wayland Smithy where we have witnessed several remarkable formations over the past few years" Is it a coincidence that Waylands Smithy is on the ridgeway path that runs for 150 miles across the south west and would provide a pefect way for circle makers to get from the car park to the fields. > http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/wayland/wayland2008a.html > > crop circle ? > > A week, 3 months ? It depends on how much practice we'd had. The team in the west country are obviously very prolific so they might be able to do this in a few hours. It would depend on the organisation. > The truth is, as you very well know; you would not be able to do it > under any circumstances to anywhere near the perfection these > circles > are made. > > Stop dreaming. Is this a dream? It's not a very exciting one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > FWIW, I'm inclined to suspect the ones that aren't > based on circles are human-made. Why? >> Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* >> man had understood it. If it was a message from a >> different intelligence why is it at exactly the same >> level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century > LOL. First you're dubious because the formations > aren't "meaningful," now you're dubious because > this one *is* meaningful. Make up your mind, please! I don't think you understood that. Read it again. Oh, OK. I'll explain, this would be more convincing if it had appeard at a time when we didn't understand what it was. As it is we could get pics like this from a high school textbook. My mind is made up, unless crop circles suddenly teach us something we didn't know it is most likely the work of man. > And in any case, the "message from a different > intelligence" claim isn't one I'm making. Yes it is. > But if I were, I could make the argument that the > "message" of a triple Julia set is, "This formation > was made by an intelligent force with a knowledge > of higher mathematics." See. If you think it was made by non-humans they must have been smart enough to understand this. > It's not even clear what you mean by "meaningless > shapes." It seems to me that any coherent pattern > can't be said to be meaningless. I wonder if the > word you're looking for isn't "abstract" rather than > "meaningless" Meaningless in the sense that it's just a pretty pattern rather than the message that ones like the fractal or Julia set seem to be saying. Which is that we understand maths to the same sort of level you do. Or to me it says; These are pretty pictures that will make mugs think we are as smart as them. > And as with the non-circle-based formations, I'm > inclined to be suspicious of the origin of those > that convey any concrete meaning, e.g., a model of > the solar system. You can't decide which ones yopu consider "real" or not based on things like that! It's way too biased. What you need is something like the PBJresearch team claim to have, definite non-fakeable physical traces. That is all it's going to come down to unless they do something no human *could* do, which sems along way off given the fact that,so far, they are all circular based and could have been caused by people pushing the crop down with garden rollers even if they weren't. Occams razor. > > And I don't trust the 20% > > figure either, it will probably come down to the perps > > wearing snow shoes or something, just to confuse the > > researchers. > > You know enough by now, I think, about the characteristics > of crop circles to be aware that this is a silly > suggestion. Do I? I've been reading about this stuff for years, in fact I bought my first copy of the Fortean Times (UKs journal of open minded inquiry into claims of the paranormal) because there was a crop circle on the front page. I've grown sceptical because of the amount of kiddology involved in peope *wanting* crops to be trodden down in a non-human way. I've stood in crop circles and watched them tell all around that this is conclusive proof. It will take more than square ones (actually they still have the spot in the middle the guy stands holding the end of the rope to measure everything out) or complex mathematical symbols to convince me now. Quite what it would take I don't know. Unambiguous messages in an alien language maybe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 > perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the > process, as in the case of the > > http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/wayland/wayland2008a.html > > crop circle ? > > A week, 3 months ? > > The truth is, as you very well know; you would not be able to do it > under any circumstances to anywhere near the perfection these circles > are made. > > Stop dreaming. And just how fast could you make a gourd banjo with a goatskin and a calabash gourd? Slaves did it in a few hours with crappy tools. The people doing it are using a technique that we haven't discovered yet, and they may be really, really into it. They may be very good at it. What we know: we don't know how some of them are done. What we don't know: that non-humans did them. If it is aliens for all we know it is signal to other ships: Dominant life form composed of carbon based bio-nutrients. Would be good for feeding our pets on our planet. (Black one NOT coco flavored.) Collect on next run through this soler system. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > > > > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > > > > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > > > > giveaway. > > > > > > Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of > > > them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic > > > of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, > > > very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire > > > in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. > > > > Yes, "some" of them are in interesting mathematical > > patterns. But what about the swallows or any of the others > > Nabluss has posted recently. And is it not a coincidence > > that all these shapes are based on circles, which are > > the easiest shape to make in a field at night, all you > > need is a piece of rope! > > How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 > perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the > process, as in the case of the > > http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/wayland/wayland2008a.html > > crop circle ? > > A week, 3 months ? > > The truth is, as you very well know; you would not be able to do it > under any circumstances to anywhere near the perfection these circles > are made. > > Stop dreaming. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > wrote: > > > > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > > > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > > > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > > > giveaway. > > > > Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of > > them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic > > of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, > > very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire > > in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. > > Yes, "some" of them are in interesting mathematical > patterns. But what about the swallows or any of the others > Nabluss has posted recently. And is it not a coincidence > that all these shapes are based on circles, which are > the easiest shape to make in a field at night, all you > need is a piece of rope! How long would it take for you and your friends to produce 241 perfect circles, without even one single straw being broken in the process, as in the case of the http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/wayland/wayland2008a.html crop circle ? A week, 3 months ? The truth is, as you very well know; you would not be able to do it under any circumstances to anywhere near the perfection these circles are made. Stop dreaming.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Crop circles are just the New Hillary, > that's all -- something that weak-minded, > gullible people choose to believe in so > that they'll have something to argue about > and declare to be "fact" and feel "special" > about. "My plan is to lay low [next week], and say nothing either to [Judy] or about her. I may or may not succeed at this..." --Barry Wright, 7/23/08
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > > wrote: > > > > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > > > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > > > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > > > giveaway. > > > > Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of > > them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic > > of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, > > very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire > > in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. > > Yes, "some" of them are in interesting mathematical > patterns. But what about the swallows or any of the others > Nabluss has posted recently. And some of them aren't. (Or maybe there's a mathematical/geometric component we're not seeing.) And is it not a coincidence > that all these shapes are based on circles, which are > the easiest shape to make in a field at night, all you > need is a piece of rope! Uh, some *aren't* based on circles: http://www.korncirkler.dk/cccorner/universe3.html Scroll down to the third photo. There's been a bunch of this kind in recent years. In any case, that it's easier for humans to make shapes based on circles doesn't necessarily mean it isn't easier for some nonhuman process to do so as well. FWIW, I'm inclined to suspect the ones that aren't based on circles are human-made. > > See Wikipedia for what a "Julia set" is: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_set > > Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* > man had understood it. If it was a message from a > different intelligence why is it at exactly the same > level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century. LOL. First you're dubious because the formations aren't "meaningful," now you're dubious because this one *is* meaningful. Make up your mind, please! And in any case, the "message from a different intelligence" claim isn't one I'm making. But if I were, I could make the argument that the "message" of a triple Julia set is, "This formation was made by an intelligent force with a knowledge of higher mathematics." (On the other hand, maybe there's no intelligence, no intention, behind it at all; maybe it's just the spontaneous manifestation of mathematical principles. I mean, it seems to me the most fruitful way to think about the [purportedly] non-human-made crop circles is not to get locked in to any particular conceptualization about who/what made them and why.) > > Obviously this isn't evidence that they're done by > > aliens, but who/whatever is making them (the ones that > > can't be shown to have been human-made, estimated to > > be about 20%) isn't just making "meaningless shapes." > > I bet more than 80% of the allegedly non-humna ones > are just meaningless shapes. It's not even clear what you mean by "meaningless shapes." It seems to me that any coherent pattern can't be said to be meaningless. I wonder if the word you're looking for isn't "abstract" rather than "meaningless." And as with the non-circle-based formations, I'm inclined to be suspicious of the origin of those that convey any concrete meaning, e.g., a model of the solar system. And I don't trust the 20% > figure either, it will probably come down to the perps > wearing snow shoes or something, just to confuse the > researchers. You know enough by now, I think, about the characteristics of crop circles to be aware that this is a silly suggestion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Another good reason is the space here. I'm always > going cycling out into the countryside and you can > go untold miles without seeing another soul. At > night it is even more deserted, the silence is > deafening. It's no surprise that these people > (I really don't think it's aliens or whatever) > haven't been caught in the act. *People* have been caught in the act. And other people, both skeptics and believers, hang out a lot in likely spots in this area hoping to catch who/whatever's making the circles doing so. Perhaps the reason you haven't seen them is that they try to make themselves inconspicuous so as not to scare off the circle-makers (e.g., by hiding in the bushes and being vewwy, vewwy quiet).
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning > wrote: > > > > This utube has some nice looking things. However, the video > > says 90% of all global crop circles appear in Wiltshire Eng. > > > > That is such an odd fact. Why would there be such a high > > concentration in one spot? > > If you knew they amount of Pagan hippy artistic > types that live in this area you wouldn't think it > was odd. The West Country is where so many go to > "discover" themselves or get away from the rat race, > It's why I live here, not in Wiltshire but on the > southern edge of crop circle land. There are whole > towns full of escapees from the rest of the country. > > I think the huge concentration of ancient sites > like Stonehenge, Avebury and all the hundreds > of iron age burial mounds and hill forts gives > the place a really mystical feel that the modern > world can't touch. > > Another good reason is the space here. I'm always > going cycling out into the countryside and you can > go untold miles without seeing another soul. At > night it is even more deserted, the silence is > deafening. It's no surprise that these people > (I really don't think it's aliens or whatever) > haven't been caught in the act. Been there, enjoyed hiking in the area, agree that you can't throw a rock without hitting some Newagey crystal-gazer type who is trying to sell you something or tell your fortune at his store. *Of course* some of them would contribute their nights to making the place sound more "mystical," because that activity translates into tourism, which translates into profit for their stores and cafes and restaurants and businesses. Plus they get to feel all "special" while doing it. As to why people who don't live in the area might believe in these obvious pranks, that's more of a puzzler. Earlier I suggested that it's because they are "broken" and can no longer feel the everyday mysteries around them, so they have to obsess over the fake Big Mysteries in an attempt to feel more "special." Also, the people who obsess over these things seem to Have No Lives. Crop circles are just the New Hillary, that's all -- something that weak-minded, gullible people choose to believe in so that they'll have something to argue about and declare to be "fact" and feel "special" about.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" > wrote: > > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > > giveaway. > > Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of > them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic > of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, > very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire > in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. Yes, "some" of them are in interesting mathematical patterns. But what about the swallows or any of the others Nabluss has posted recently. And is it not a coincidence that all these shapes are based on circles, which are the easiest shape to make in a field at night, all you need is a piece of rope! > See Wikipedia for what a "Julia set" is: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_set Would be more impressed if this had appeared *before* man had understood it. If it was a message from a different intelligence why is it at exactly the same level as us? Why didn't this appear in the 14th century. > Obviously this isn't evidence that they're done by > aliens, but who/whatever is making them (the ones that > can't be shown to have been human-made, estimated to > be about 20%) isn't just making "meaningless shapes." I bet more than 80% of the allegedly non-humna ones are just meaningless shapes. And I don't trust the 20% figure either, it will probably come down to the perps wearing snow shoes or something, just to confuse the researchers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Here's another. These are stills, but they give you > > a sense of the circles' variety and complexity (note > > that you can see people standing in the first one): > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFKJJ5VMfWA > > > > This utube has some nice looking things. However, the video says 90% > of all global crop circles appear in Wiltshire Eng. > > That is such an odd fact. Why would there be such a high concentration > in one spot? If you knew they amount of Pagan hippy artistic types that live in this area you wouldn't think it was odd. The West Country is where so many go to "discover" themselves or get away from the rat race, It's why I live here, not in Wiltshire but on the southern edge of crop circle land. There are whole towns full of escapees from the rest of the country. I think the huge concentration of ancient sites like Stonehenge, Avebury and all the hundreds of iron age burial mounds and hill forts gives the place a really mystical feel that the modern world can't touch. Another good reason is the space here. I'm always going cycling out into the countryside and you can go untold miles without seeing another soul. At night it is even more deserted, the silence is deafening. It's no surprise that these people (I really don't think it's aliens or whatever) haven't been caught in the act. > One reasonable hypothesis is that there is a group in or near > Wiltshire that has developed the talent and tools to do such works of > art. > > "Wiltshire (also abbreviated Wilts) is a ceremonial county in the > south west of England. It is landlocked and borders the counties of > Dorset, Somerset, Hampshire, Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire and > Berkshire. It contains the unitary authority of Swindon. The county > covers 858,931 acres (3476 km²). Wiltshire is characterised by its > high downland and wide valleys. Salisbury Plain is famous as the > location of Stonehenge stone circle and other ancient landmarks. The > city of Salisbury is notable for its cathedral. The county town is > Trowbridge (originally Wilton)." > > Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor stonehenge over > all other ancient "sacred" sites to the (mostly) exclusion of others? > > Or could it be that Stonehenge has attracted a community o > artists/mystic types with a bit of a mischievious streak. Like San > Frncisco in the mid 60's -- the Merry Pranksters, Trips Festivals etc > -- before hordes of "hippy wannbees" from the midwest ruined the party. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:24 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> So? All the pictures I saw on the website you recommended > >> were taken recently, Judy. > > > > So? How were the photographs of the earlier ones faked > > without Photoshop? > > I haven't seen the earlier ones, but faking in photography has been > absurdly easy for a long time, hence the 2 girls in England in the > 1890s, who used doctored photos to show that "fairies" really > existed. > > > And of course the BLT site has very few photos, and > > the ones they do have are small and mostly black and > > white. > > I followed some of their links. > > Judy, there is nothing magical about creating fakes Did I say there was anything magical about creating fakes, or are those yet more words you're trying to put in my mouth? , ask any > "magician" who's honest. In that case, not only do we know > we're being faked We know *some* of the crop circles are faked, but on the ground, not via Photoshop. Again, the facts are that you wouldn't know a Photoshopped photo from a real one, and that there's a whole host of reasons why the idea that the crop circle photos are Photoshop fales is definitively ruled out. But if you'd rather cling to that delusion rather than acknowledge the reality of crop circles, that's your problem, not mine.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's another. These are stills, but they give you > a sense of the circles' variety and complexity (note > that you can see people standing in the first one): > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFKJJ5VMfWA > This utube has some nice looking things. However, the video says 90% of all global crop circles appear in Wiltshire Eng. That is such an odd fact. Why would there be such a high concentration in one spot? One reasonable hypothesis is that there is a group in or near Wiltshire that has developed the talent and tools to do such works of art. "Wiltshire (also abbreviated Wilts) is a ceremonial county in the south west of England. It is landlocked and borders the counties of Dorset, Somerset, Hampshire, Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire. It contains the unitary authority of Swindon. The county covers 858,931 acres (3476 km²). Wiltshire is characterised by its high downland and wide valleys. Salisbury Plain is famous as the location of Stonehenge stone circle and other ancient landmarks. The city of Salisbury is notable for its cathedral. The county town is Trowbridge (originally Wilton)." Ok, its the region where Stonehenge is. Do aliens faor stonehenge over all other ancient "sacred" sites to the (mostly) exclusion of others? Or could it be that Stonehenge has attracted a community o artists/mystic types with a bit of a mischievious streak. Like San Frncisco in the mid 60's -- the Merry Pranksters, Trips Festivals etc -- before hordes of "hippy wannbees" from the midwest ruined the party.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [snip] > > Here are some websites for other clever fakes: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Irving > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmyr_de_Hory > > Sal > You want fake? Here's fake:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:24 PM, authfriend wrote: So? All the pictures I saw on the website you recommended were taken recently, Judy. So? How were the photographs of the earlier ones faked without Photoshop? I haven't seen the earlier ones, but faking in photography has been absurdly easy for a long time, hence the 2 girls in England in the 1890s, who used doctored photos to show that "fairies" really existed. And of course the BLT site has very few photos, and the ones they do have are small and mostly black and white. I followed some of their links. Judy, there is nothing magical about creating fakes, ask any "magician" who's honest. In that case, not only do we know we're being faked, we're oftentimes paying big bucks for it. It's also why kids love card tricks. Their common sense tells them that you can't really read their minds, yet when you produce the card they picked, and they don't know how you did it, they generally go along with the "magic." For some accounts of some really clever modern fakes, see the first chapter of Blink, in which the author describes the find of an "ancient" statue that looked so real it was bought by the Getty Museum, had any number of experts fooled, until one finally caught on to the fact that it was a clever piece of junk, made in Rome the year before. Here are some websites for other clever fakes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Irving http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmyr_de_Hory Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 3:34 PM, authfriend wrote: > > >> Or maybe someone's just having a lot of fun with Photoshop... > > > > That's *so* ignorant. Just for one thing, hundreds > > of crop circles had been investigated and > > photographed before the first version of Photoshop > > appeared in the late '80s. > > So? All the pictures I saw on the website you recommended > were taken recently, Judy. So? How were the photographs of the earlier ones faked without Photoshop? And of course the BLT site has very few photos, and the ones they do have are small and mostly black and white. And all looked like glaring fakes. > It wasn't even close. ROTFL! As if you could tell the difference! Not to mention the common-sense aspect: With the umpty real experts in Photoshop, wouldn't you think somebody would have noticed by now if the photos were all "glaring fakes"? That's what Curtis--who's pretty handy with Photoshop-- thought at first, but I believe he backed off that notion. And one of these days you might want to (a) visit a site whose emphasis is on photos (not just from the air but on the ground, from all angles) and (b) watch one of the excellent videos of film (not photos but, you know, moving pictures) shot during crop circle flyovers. Here's a few of the latter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAsQInOWXkk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzkNvkGyFM (crop circle footage starts about a minute in) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYXvux97vT8 (ditto) Here's another. These are stills, but they give you a sense of the circles' variety and complexity (note that you can see people standing in the first one): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFKJJ5VMfWA Some of these are probably human-made, but the fact that humans make nice ones *on the ground* pretty much disposes of your Photoshop theory all by itself. And then, there's the fact that they show up on Google Maps: http://tinyurl.com/ylv5dy http://tinyurl.com/k2k9l > > And of course there are > > thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands by > > now, who have *walked around* in the damn things. > > You know, Judy, you really ought to watch a movie call > Fairy Story, made about 10 years or so ago, about how a > couple of kids in England in the 1890s, I think, convinced a > whole town that fairies existed. Look, Sal, I know you're struggling here, but I should think you'd have more self-respect than to come up with this kind of absurdly weak non sequitur of a rebuttal.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 3:34 PM, authfriend wrote: Or maybe someone's just having a lot of fun with Photoshop... That's *so* ignorant. Just for one thing, hundreds of crop circles had been investigated and photographed before the first version of Photoshop appeared in the late '80s. So? All the pictures I saw on the website you recommended were taken recently, Judy. And all looked like glaring fakes. It wasn't even close. And of course there are thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands by now, who have *walked around* in the damn things. You know, Judy, you really ought to watch a movie call Fairy Story, made about 10 years or so ago, about how a couple of kids in England in the 1890s, I think, convinced a whole town that fairies existed. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The fact there are "hoaxers" is not irrelevant It's irrelevant to the research I'm talking about. , the fact > is no-one has shown that non-humans are involved at all. That's not the right formulation. The fact is that an estimated 20% of crop circles can't be shown to have been made by humans. > Unless you want to imagine a group of aliens/fairies/ > whatevers coming to earth and making circles in fields at > the same time that people started doing it. Plenty of circles had appeared before the famous pair of hoaxers, "Doug and Dave," started making them. > The first step is seperating any signal from the noise, > are there really some definite differences? Yes. Look at the BLT research. There's also a detailed article on the BLT site about the test Wikipedia reported on (which I quoted from), where the MIT students making the circle were given criteria characteristic of "real" crop circles that they were unable to reproduce. It won't > be the first time a bunch of experts have misread or > misunderstood the evidence. > > I hope BLT are onto something new but have doubts > about anyhting I read on the internet, That's kind of intellectually sloppy. It's not always possible to know for sure whether what appears on the Internet is reliable, but you can make a pretty good guess in most cases. Part of BLT's declared purpose is to make information available on the Internet. I'll wait til > New Scientist takes an interest as I don't have any > expertise in soil analysis. > > Is anyone checking crop circles and then making > solid claims about whether it was Us or Them? Lots of claims, some of which have turned out to be wrong. There's no organized effort that I know of. The thing is, there's no "official" established set of criteria. The three criteria given to the MIT students sound to me like a good place to start, in any case. Seems > like that would be the easiest way to settle it, if > the make a bad call just once we'll know. Huh? Why couldn't "they" be wrong about one but right about others?
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > giveaway. Except that they're not really "meaningless." Some of them employ extremely complex patterns characteristic of "sacred geometry," harmonics, fractals, and so on, very mathematically sophisticated. One found in Wiltshire in 1996 represented a triple Julia set. See Wikipedia for what a "Julia set" is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_set Obviously this isn't evidence that they're done by aliens, but who/whatever is making them (the ones that can't be shown to have been human-made, estimated to be about 20%) isn't just making "meaningless shapes."
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 2:40 PM, sparaig wrote: > > Or maybe they're the alien equivalent of Good Ole Boys enjoying > > yanking the local yokel's chains > > Or maybe someone's just having a lot of fun with Photoshop... That's *so* ignorant. Just for one thing, hundreds of crop circles had been investigated and photographed before the first version of Photoshop appeared in the late '80s. And of course there are thousands of people, maybe hundreds of thousands by now, who have *walked around* in the damn things.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:55 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > As I said in the post on which Sal is commenting: > > > > The bottom line is that crop circles *are* a mystery, > > Everything in life is a mystery, Judy, from conception > to death. Does that mean aliens had something to do with > your conception, mine, or Barry's? Did I say aliens had something to do with crop circles, or did you decide it would make you look smart to put words in my mouth? See, I don't choose my words at random. When I say "mystery," I mean *mystery*, not "It's aliens!" (Wait a second, don't > answer that...) > > > one that those who try to explain them away cannot > > bring themselves to confront. > > You're confusing lack of interest with inability, but if > that floats your boat... If it was lack of interest, such folks wouldn't be noisily proclaiming that there *is* no mystery. > There is not, nor has there ever been, any evidence that any > intelligent life exists out there in any form, not in the > known universe, at least. We Are It. And it's scary, to > think that in this vast void we're alone. It may scare you; it doesn't scare me. > But that's what everything points to. No, actually nothing points to the idea that we're alone, any more than anything points to the idea that we're *not* alone. There's no reason to believe that if there were other intelligent life forms, we would know about them. The universe is a BG place.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 2:40 PM, sparaig wrote: Sure, and it also seems entirely logical that instead of making meaningful contact, or trying to take over the planet, or making overtures of peace, that they would waste inordinate amounts of time romping through fields of corn or wheat. Maybe they're vegan aliens. Or maybe they're the alien equivalent of Good Ole Boys enjoying yanking the local yokel's chains Or maybe someone's just having a lot of fun with Photoshop... Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Brian Horsfield wrote: > > > Sal -- I have to say I understand how people can become addicted to > > crop circles. I have > > not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local > > Fairfielders to bring videos to > > Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I > > confess I have not yet been > > to the cafe but I plan to. The point is, once you grasp that these > > are not being made by > > humans, at least not all of them, then it can easily become the > > most important question in > > ones life. > > I suppose so, Brian, but only, I would submit, if one has a whole > lot of extra time on their hands, and not very many other > 'important' questions. > > > > Who is making them and what is their intention or purpose? > > > > It seems entirely logical that if beings exist that are capable of > > inter-stellar travel that they > > would naturally have a great curiousity for Earth which is so > > amazing in it's diversity and life. > > Sure, and it also seems entirely logical that instead of making > meaningful contact, or trying to take over the planet, > or making overtures of peace, that they would waste > inordinate amounts of time romping through fields of > corn or wheat. Maybe they're vegan aliens. Or maybe they're the alien equivalent of Good Ole Boys enjoying yanking the local yokel's chains Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "R.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I actually think the crop circles have something to do with the earth > itself attemting to communicate to us... It's saying, "You are standing right on my nutsack. Please back the F off!" > Perhaps through magnetic type fields or some field effect we do not > know of as of yet. > I don't think it has much to do with outer-space; > Although, for the sci-fi fans, it would seem obvious that the > interpretation would abstract to a 'Star Trek' theme... > > Perhaps if you buy a ticket on 'Priceline', you could rent a room > with the Ashtar Command. > I heard a they are selling tickets to ride the space shuttle? > > Anyway, the earth, she speaks to us in many ways. > And her magnetic fields are a changin' ... > Just like the 'Times they are a Changin'... > > "So, you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone" > > I wouldn't hold my breath for Astar to give you a ride... > > > > >>> Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul > > >>> Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses > > >>> Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and > > >>> posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. > > > Why don't the crop circle makers make beautiful circles and sign > > > them, "Compliments of the Pleidians", or "Brought to you by the > Ashtar > > > Command", and give a toll free number - 1-800-MAKE-CROP > > But if they had some poor spellers, and instead wrote > > 1-800-MAKE-CRAP, there could be some serious > > trouble with the Pleidians, and it looks like Lou's got > > enough to handle without that. > > > > Sal >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
I actually think the crop circles have something to do with the earth itself attemting to communicate to us... Perhaps through magnetic type fields or some field effect we do not know of as of yet. I don't think it has much to do with outer-space; Although, for the sci-fi fans, it would seem obvious that the interpretation would abstract to a 'Star Trek' theme... Perhaps if you buy a ticket on 'Priceline', you could rent a room with the Ashtar Command. I heard a they are selling tickets to ride the space shuttle? Anyway, the earth, she speaks to us in many ways. And her magnetic fields are a changin' ... Just like the 'Times they are a Changin'... "So, you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone" I wouldn't hold my breath for Astar to give you a ride... > >>> Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul > >>> Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses > >>> Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and > >>> posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. > > Why don't the crop circle makers make beautiful circles and sign > > them, "Compliments of the Pleidians", or "Brought to you by the Ashtar > > Command", and give a toll free number - 1-800-MAKE-CROP > But if they had some poor spellers, and instead wrote > 1-800-MAKE-CRAP, there could be some serious > trouble with the Pleidians, and it looks like Lou's got > enough to handle without that. > > Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> > Why don't the crop circle makers make beautiful circles and sign > > them, "Compliments of the Pleidians", or "Brought to you by the Ashtar > > Command", and give a toll free number - 1-800-MAKE-CROP > > But if they had some poor spellers, and instead wrote > 1-800-MAKE-CRAP, there could be some serious > trouble with the Pleidians, and it looks like Lou's got > enough to handle without that. I forgot. The Pleidians already have a toll free number. 1-800-MAKE- LOVEOFTEN!
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence > angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. > The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a > giveaway. I would be more impressed with the extraterrestrial intelligence idea if the terrestrial believers in it showed a bit more intelligence themselves. If the people waiting with 'bated breath to greet the Space Brothers are any indication of the intelligence of the alien visitors themselves, we're about to be invaded by the alien counterpart of Homer Simpson. Alien diplomat steps out of the ship, holds up his hand in a Mr. Spock Vulcan salute, and says, "Doh!" The waiting believers interpret this as the Mantra Of The Gods, and start chanting it themselves. The spokeswoman from the local Coalition of Crop Circle Converts steps up to meet the emissary from space, bowing deeply. Alien Homer bites her head off, chews on it a couple of times, but then makes a terrible face and spits it out. He gets back in his spaceship and leaves. Earth is saved.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 12:32 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. Why don't the crop circle makers make beautiful circles and sign them, "Compliments of the Pleidians", or "Brought to you by the Ashtar Command", and give a toll free number - 1-800-MAKE-CROP But if they had some poor spellers, and instead wrote 1-800-MAKE-CRAP, there could be some serious trouble with the Pleidians, and it looks like Lou's got enough to handle without that. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> > Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul > > Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses > > Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and > > posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. Why don't the crop circle makers make beautiful circles and sign them, "Compliments of the Pleidians", or "Brought to you by the Ashtar Command", and give a toll free number - 1-800-MAKE-CROP
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Hugo wrote: > > >> Discussions of these issues just distract attention > >> from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop > >> circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to > >> explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront. > > > > > > Oooh yeah, I'm *scared* of confronting it. Brrrhhh too > > spooky for me. > > I don't know about you, Hugo, but the minute I see one of > these scary pics I want to crawl under the bed. It's just > too much, I tell ya. You have my sympathy Sal. Be brave, be brave! > It looks to me like someone is having a lot of fun with PS. Could be an element of that in some pics. I would be more impressed with the whole alien intelligence angle if they were clearly done in a indecypherable language. The fact that they are mostly meaningless shapes is a bit of a giveaway. There was one recently that was a copy of a message we broadcast to space via radio telescopes. An idea they nicked from the novel/ movie Contact. Trouble is they got it wrong, another giveaway unless they were tired from their intergalactic flight. > > The fact there are "hoaxers" is not irrelevant, the fact > > is no-one has shown that non-humans are involved at all. > > Unless you want to imagine a group of aliens/fairies/ > > whatevers coming to earth and making circles in fields at > > the same time that people started doing it. Are they copying > > us? What do they think of "our" ones? > > > > The first step is seperating any signal from the noise, > > are there really some definite differences? It won't > > be the first time a bunch of experts have misread or > > misunderstood the evidence. > > > > I hope BLT are onto something new but have doubts > > about anyhting I read on the internet, I'll wait til > > New Scientist takes an interest as I don't have any > > expertise in soil analysis. > > > > Is anyone checking crop circles and then making > > solid claims about whether it was Us or Them? Seems > > like that would be the easiest way to settle it, if > > the make a bad call just once we'll know. > > > > Sal >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Hugo wrote: Discussions of these issues just distract attention from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront. Oooh yeah, I'm *scared* of confronting it. Brrrhhh too spooky for me. I don't know about you, Hugo, but the minute I see one of these scary pics I want to crawl under the bed. It's just too much, I tell ya. It looks to me like someone is having a lot of fun with PS. The fact there are "hoaxers" is not irrelevant, the fact is no-one has shown that non-humans are involved at all. Unless you want to imagine a group of aliens/fairies/ whatevers coming to earth and making circles in fields at the same time that people started doing it. Are they copying us? What do they think of "our" ones? The first step is seperating any signal from the noise, are there really some definite differences? It won't be the first time a bunch of experts have misread or misunderstood the evidence. I hope BLT are onto something new but have doubts about anyhting I read on the internet, I'll wait til New Scientist takes an interest as I don't have any expertise in soil analysis. Is anyone checking crop circles and then making solid claims about whether it was Us or Them? Seems like that would be the easiest way to settle it, if the make a bad call just once we'll know. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Horsfield"
> wrote:
>
> > I was educated in the UK in the 70's and early 80's
> > and never knew how much the phenomenon has evolved since then.
> > There are so many and so complex, I can't see how they could
> > all be man-made. As to what made them - well that is a mystery.
>
> The frustrating thing for those with a genuine interest
> in crop circles is that the skeptics simply will not
> engage with the evidence. Earlier Peter declared that
> with regard to the notion that crop circles are not made
> by humans, "all evidence to the contrary is ignored."
>
> In fact, it's *precisely the opposite*. The folks
> ignoring the evidence are the skeptics.
>
> Nobody who makes pronouncements about the nature of crop
> circles has any idea what they're talking about *unless*
> they have perused this Web site:
>
> http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
>
> "The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle
> research - the discovery, scientific documentation and
> evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and
> other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or
> energy system) responsible for creating them and to
> determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature
> and source of these energies."
>
> ("BLT" stands for Burke, Levengood, Talbott, the three
> folks who head the research effort.)
>
> It's not about whether humans are capable of making
> highly complex patterns in crops. In light of what the
> BLT people have discovered, that's irrelevant. The fact
> that there are hoaxers is irrelevant. And it isn't
> about extraterrestrials making the circles either.
>
> Discussions of these issues just distract attention
> from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop
> circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to
> explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront.
Oooh yeah, I'm *scared* of confronting it. Brrrhhh too
spooky for me.
The fact there are "hoaxers" is not irrelevant, the fact
is no-one has shown that non-humans are involved at all.
Unless you want to imagine a group of aliens/fairies/
whatevers coming to earth and making circles in fields at
the same time that people started doing it. Are they copying
us? What do they think of "our" ones?
The first step is seperating any signal from the noise,
are there really some definite differences? It won't
be the first time a bunch of experts have misread or
misunderstood the evidence.
I hope BLT are onto something new but have doubts
about anyhting I read on the internet, I'll wait til
New Scientist takes an interest as I don't have any
expertise in soil analysis.
Is anyone checking crop circles and then making
solid claims about whether it was Us or Them? Seems
like that would be the easiest way to settle it, if
the make a bad call just once we'll know.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 11:35 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There is not, nor has there ever been, any evidence that any > intelligent life exists out there in any form, not in the known > universe, at least. We Are It. And it's scary, to think that in > this vast void we're alone. But that's what everything points to. As with so many things, Monty Python said it best: I just uploaded an MP3 of the song.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:27 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I have not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local Fairfielders to bring videos to Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I confess I have not yet been to the cafe but I plan to. I wasn't aware of this café. Where is it? Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. Remember to bring your Dome Pass. You may need it or some other proof of diminished capacity such as committal papers to enter. LOL...dome passes are really passe Barry. Now all they do is check your aura. And as far as diminished capacity goes, well, just having an address in FF should suffice. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Brian Horsfield wrote: I wasn't aware of this café. Where is it? Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7- 8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. And I think it just opened a couple of weeks ago. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Brian Horsfield wrote: Sal -- I have to say I understand how people can become addicted to crop circles. I have not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local Fairfielders to bring videos to Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I confess I have not yet been to the cafe but I plan to. The point is, once you grasp that these are not being made by humans, at least not all of them, then it can easily become the most important question in ones life. I suppose so, Brian, but only, I would submit, if one has a whole lot of extra time on their hands, and not very many other 'important' questions. Who is making them and what is their intention or purpose? It seems entirely logical that if beings exist that are capable of inter-stellar travel that they would naturally have a great curiousity for Earth which is so amazing in it's diversity and life. Sure, and it also seems entirely logical that instead of making meaningful contact, or trying to take over the planet, or making overtures of peace, that they would waste inordinate amounts of time romping through fields of corn or wheat. Maybe they're vegan aliens. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There is not, nor has there ever been, any evidence that any > intelligent life exists out there in any form, not in the known > universe, at least. We Are It. And it's scary, to think that in > this vast void we're alone. But that's what everything points to. As with so many things, Monty Python said it best: Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving And revolving at nine thousand miles an hour. It's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned, The sun that is the source of all our power. Now the sun, and you and me, and all the stars that we can see, Are moving at a million miles a day, In the outer spiral arm, at fourteen thousand miles an hour, Of a galaxy we call the Milky Way. Our galaxy itself contains a hundred million stars; It's a hundred thousand light-years side to side; It bulges in the middle sixteen thousand light-years thick, But out by us it's just three thousand light-years wide. We're thirty thousand light-years from Galactic Central Point, We go 'round every two hundred million years; And our galaxy itself is one of millions of billions In this amazing and expanding universe. Our universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding, In all of the directions it can whiz; As fast as it can go, that's the speed of light, you know, Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is. So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure, How amazingly unlikely is your birth; And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Horsfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I have not read all of the posts here, but I assume the > > work of local Fairfielders to bring videos to Fairfield > > and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I > > confess I have not yet been to the cafe but I plan to. > > > > I wasn't aware of this café. Where is it? > > Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul > Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7-8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses > Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and > posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year. Remember to bring your Dome Pass. You may need it or some other proof of diminished capacity such as committal papers to enter.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Many of them are on paid sabbatical leave from the prestigious TTFEBWSSD Foundation, and thus could contribute their considerable scientific and research skills to the invest- igation of crop circles. As soon as the crop circle thing is "proved" to the satisfaction of those who believe that they know the truth and no one else does, all of these personnel will return to The Tooth Fairy Exists Because We Say She Does Foundation and continue the good fight there. You mean...you mean...she doesn't?! Killjoy. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:55 AM, authfriend wrote: As I said in the post on which Sal is commenting: The bottom line is that crop circles *are* a mystery, Everything in life is a mystery, Judy, from conception to death. Does that mean aliens had something to do with your conception, mine, or Barry's? (Wait a second, don't answer that...) one that those who try to explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront. You're confusing lack of interest with inability, but if that floats your boat... There is not, nor has there ever been, any evidence that any intelligent life exists out there in any form, not in the known universe, at least. We Are It. And it's scary, to think that in this vast void we're alone. But that's what everything points to. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
-- > > Sal -- I have to say I understand how people can become addicted to crop > circles. I have > not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local Fairfielders > to bring videos to > Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I confess I have > not yet been > to the cafe but I plan to. > > I wasn't aware of this café. Where is it? > Across the street from 2nd St Cafe, upstairs of the Istanbul Grill. It is open 12-2pm and 7- 8.30pm Mon- Saturday. It houses Marlene Stanley's exhibition of Crop Circle pictures and posters which she showed at Americus Diamond last year.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Horsfield Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:45 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! Sal -- I have to say I understand how people can become addicted to crop circles. I have not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local Fairfielders to bring videos to Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I confess I have not yet been to the cafe but I plan to. I wasnt aware of this café. Where is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > wrote: > > > > BLT...is that bacon, lettuce and tomato? > > > > Seems like someone has an awful lot of free time on their > > hands. > > Many of them are on paid sabbatical leave > from the prestigious TTFEBWSSD Foundation, > and thus could contribute their considerable > scientific and research skills to the invest- > igation of crop circles. > > As soon as the crop circle thing is "proved" > to the satisfaction of those who believe that > they know the truth and no one else does, all > of these personnel will return to The Tooth > Fairy Exists Because We Say She Does Foundation > and continue the good fight there. As I said in the post on which Sal is commenting: The bottom line is that crop circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront. - "My plan is to lay low [next week], and say nothing either to [Judy] or about her. I may or may not succeed at this..." --Barry Wright, 7/23/08
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 8:06 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > "The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle > > research - the discovery, scientific documentation and > > evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and > > other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or > > energy system) responsible for creating them and to > > determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature > > and source of these energies." > > BLT...is that bacon, lettuce and tomato? > > Seems like someone has an awful lot of free time on their > hands. > > Sal > Sal -- I have to say I understand how people can become addicted to crop circles. I have not read all of the posts here, but I assume the work of local Fairfielders to bring videos to Fairfield and open the Crop Circle Cafe has been mentioned. I confess I have not yet been to the cafe but I plan to. The point is, once you grasp that these are not being made by humans, at least not all of them, then it can easily become the most important question in ones life. Who is making them and what is their intention or purpose? It seems entirely logical that if beings exist that are capable of inter-stellar travel that they would naturally have a great curiousity for Earth which is so amazing in it's diversity and life. I have not read theories about crop circle formation, but I have read Dr Steven Greer's "Hidden Knowledge- Forbidden Truth". I highly recommend it. People I gave it to could not put it down. I bought 4 copies from 21st Century bookstore. See this link: http://www.disclosureproject.org/hiddentruth.htm So once we accept the testimony of the hundreds of credible witnesses he has assembled - then it is only natural to ponder about the one thing these beings may be deliberately trying to communicate - with crop circles. My take is this. If I were an ET and wanted to communicate with humans on a mass scale, but was aware there are huge vested interests which want to distort my intentions as hostile what would I do? I think I might dabble with a few crop circles! Images on crops are not destructive - most of the crop can be harvested, the images are not permanent, so it does not become an archaeological relic taking up precious open space. And it opens a discussion that is not threatening to anyone, save perhaps a few annoyed farmers at having people trample over their fields. I think all would agree there are urgent and dire man made threats to the world's environment. So it seems to me that other beings out there are also concerned and are seeking a conversation with us, but according to Greer, this conversation is being stifled by powerful vested interests. I agree with Dr Greer, that this may be the most important issue for all life on earth - that there are life supporting technologies that are known and are available life to take us off oil dependence and many other problems facing us and usher in age of prosperity and peace for all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > BLT...is that bacon, lettuce and tomato? > > Seems like someone has an awful lot of free time on their > hands. Many of them are on paid sabbatical leave from the prestigious TTFEBWSSD Foundation, and thus could contribute their considerable scientific and research skills to the invest- igation of crop circles. As soon as the crop circle thing is "proved" to the satisfaction of those who believe that they know the truth and no one else does, all of these personnel will return to The Tooth Fairy Exists Because We Say She Does Foundation and continue the good fight there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 8:06 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > "The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle > > research - the discovery, scientific documentation and > > evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and > > other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or > > energy system) responsible for creating them and to > > determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature > > and source of these energies." > > BLT...is that bacon, lettuce and tomato? Guess you didn't bother to read the whole post, huh? > Seems like someone has an awful lot of free time on their > hands. Seems like Einstein did too.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Discussions of these issues just distract attention > > from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop > > circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to > > explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront. > > I am sympathetic to your claim that these have not been > perfectly explained away in every case. And with all the > mysteries in life I am not adverse to adding another to > the pile. And I don't include you among those who are unwilling to confront the puzzle, nor among those who don't know what they're talking about. But when I spend time reading that site which > you have brought my attention to before I am stuck mostly > by my inability to evaluate some of the claims. Take the > section on plant abnormalities. A picture is offered of > the altered plant and a "control." They look different. > I have know way of knowing if this is significant. They > mention how certain changes in the plants could come from > over fertilization. Then the make a case why this was not > the cause in these plants. But how do I know what > happens if you spray a section of plants with some type > of fertilizer or chemical? Perfectly reasonable questions. And when they sprinkle their > discussion with terms like "formation energies", I feel as > if I am in the midst of believers making their case with a > bunch of science terms that I am not prepared to follow or > have a chance at contextualizing. Actually, I think "formation energies" is the most generic term they could think of to refer to whatever causes the circles and their attendant phenomena. It's not a "believers" term at all but one that tries to avoid *any* suggestions about the cause. A guy with a board constitutes "formation energy" just as much as do alien woo-woo rays. > So I am left with this. I think cleaver people probably did > this. I don't know how and the people on the site don't know > how. > > What is the most compelling aspect that makes you think that > a persuasive case has been made, in terms that you or I have > the background to evaluate, that people couldn't have made > crop circles with a method yet unknown? I don't have any more background to evaluate the kinds of things they're studying than you do. I have to focus on other aspects, such as the credentials of their consultants, the fact that they make no claims as to ultimate causes, and that just on its face, it seems to me vanishingly unlikely that humans could have made so many circles (the ones the BLT folks have studied) by a method that remains not just unknown but unguessed-at despite all the research on these weird effects. This last is perhaps the most compelling for me. The acknowledged crop-circle hoaxsters don't even hint at being able to produce these effects; they boast about being able to create complex patterns using ordinary mechanical means. It's difficult enough for humans to produce these patterns. For them to simultaneously be using some advanced technology to create the effects BLT is studying *just to puzzle a small number of scientists*--rather than to amaze the public and confound the media--is an Occam's razor reject, IMHO. You can make very impressive circles mechanically that serve the latter purposes and, when they're acknowledged as hoaxes, satisfy the vast majority of people that they're all human-made. > And if the elongation of plant nodes are invoked, I need more > context than a two pictures of "different" looking nodes. The site has citations to published articles in peer- reviewed journals; you could look those up and see if they gave you more context. They probably have unpublished material as well that they might be willing to share with you. I'll bet they'd be willing to answer questions as well. I didn't quote this part of their statement of purpose: "Secondly, our intent is to publish these research results in peer-reviewed scientific journals and to disseminate this information to the general public through lectures, mainstream articles and the internet." They have a two-hour slide show available (see the bottom of the home page). They say to contact them about scheduling. I don't know whether that means they send one of their people along with the slides, or how big a group you have to have, but it might be worth inquiring.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
On Jul 27, 2008, at 8:06 AM, authfriend wrote: "The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle research - the discovery, scientific documentation and evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or energy system) responsible for creating them and to determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature and source of these energies." BLT...is that bacon, lettuce and tomato? Seems like someone has an awful lot of free time on their hands. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> Discussions of these issues just distract attention
> from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop
> circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to
> explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront.
I am sympathetic to your claim that these have not been perfectly
explained away in every case. And with all the mysteries in life I am
not adverse to adding another to the pile. But when I spend time
reading that site which you have brought my attention to before I am
stuck mostly by my inability to evaluate some of the claims. Take the
section on plant abnormalities. A picture is offered of the altered
plant and a "control." They look different. I have know way of
knowing if this is significant. They mention how certain changes in
the plants could come from over fertilization. Then the make a case
why this was not the cause in these plants. But how do I know what
happens if you spray a section of plants with some type of fertilizer
or chemical? And when they sprinkle their discussion with terms like
"formation energies", I feel as if I am in the midst of believers
making their case with a bunch of science terms that I am not prepared
to follow or have a chance at contextualizing.
So I am left with this. I think cleaver people probably did this. I
don't know how and the people on the site don't know how. What is the
most compelling aspect that makes you think that a persuasive case has
been made, in terms that you or I have the background to evaluate,
that people couldn't have made crop circles with a method yet unknown?
And if the elongation of plant nodes are invoked, I need more context
than a two pictures of "different" looking nodes.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Horsfield"
> wrote:
>
> > I was educated in the UK in the 70's and early 80's
> > and never knew how much the phenomenon has evolved since then.
> > There are so many and so complex, I can't see how they could
> > all be man-made. As to what made them - well that is a mystery.
>
> The frustrating thing for those with a genuine interest
> in crop circles is that the skeptics simply will not
> engage with the evidence. Earlier Peter declared that
> with regard to the notion that crop circles are not made
> by humans, "all evidence to the contrary is ignored."
>
> In fact, it's *precisely the opposite*. The folks
> ignoring the evidence are the skeptics.
>
> Nobody who makes pronouncements about the nature of crop
> circles has any idea what they're talking about *unless*
> they have perused this Web site:
>
> http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
>
> "The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle
> research - the discovery, scientific documentation and
> evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and
> other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or
> energy system) responsible for creating them and to
> determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature
> and source of these energies."
>
> ("BLT" stands for Burke, Levengood, Talbott, the three
> folks who head the research effort.)
>
> It's not about whether humans are capable of making
> highly complex patterns in crops. In light of what the
> BLT people have discovered, that's irrelevant. The fact
> that there are hoaxers is irrelevant. And it isn't
> about extraterrestrials making the circles either.
>
> Discussions of these issues just distract attention
> from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop
> circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to
> explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront.
>
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Horsfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There's a great book on the art of crop circles at 21st Century. Just pictures and > descriptions without getting mired down in controversy about HOW they were made. It's > by Steve and Karen Alexander and it costs about $14. It's amazing value and I gave 4 of > them away as Christmas presents last year. They make great coffee table books. > > Many of the pictures are shown on their website: http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/ > > It takes a while to load this webpage. I was educated in the UK in the 70's and early 80's > and never knew how much the phenomenon has evolved since then. There are so many > and so complex, I can't see how they could all be man-made. As to what made them - > well that is a mystery. Maybe Deva's are playing? Steve and Karen's book includes some > which go beyond art and into communication with pictures of ET's and a complex message > in binary code which appears to be a response to a message sent by radio signals into > outer space. Thats a brilliant page. Hopefully petersuphen takes a closer look at for example the crop circle from 17. july this year and descide whether he and his friends could make such a design in a matter of say, 20 minutes. http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Horsfield"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was educated in the UK in the 70's and early 80's
> and never knew how much the phenomenon has evolved since then.
> There are so many and so complex, I can't see how they could
> all be man-made. As to what made them - well that is a mystery.
The frustrating thing for those with a genuine interest
in crop circles is that the skeptics simply will not
engage with the evidence. Earlier Peter declared that
with regard to the notion that crop circles are not made
by humans, "all evidence to the contrary is ignored."
In fact, it's *precisely the opposite*. The folks
ignoring the evidence are the skeptics.
Nobody who makes pronouncements about the nature of crop
circles has any idea what they're talking about *unless*
they have perused this Web site:
http://www.bltresearch.com/index.html
"The BLT Research Team Inc.'s primary focus is crop circle
research - the discovery, scientific documentation and
evaluation of physical changes induced in plants, soils and
other materials at crop circle sites by the energy (or
energy system) responsible for creating them and to
determine, if possible, from these data the specific nature
and source of these energies."
("BLT" stands for Burke, Levengood, Talbott, the three
folks who head the research effort.)
It's not about whether humans are capable of making
highly complex patterns in crops. In light of what the
BLT people have discovered, that's irrelevant. The fact
that there are hoaxers is irrelevant. And it isn't
about extraterrestrials making the circles either.
Discussions of these issues just distract attention
from the real questions. The bottom line is that crop
circles *are* a mystery, one that those who try to
explain them away cannot bring themselves to confront.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
There's a great book on the art of crop circles at 21st Century. Just pictures and descriptions without getting mired down in controversy about HOW they were made. It's by Steve and Karen Alexander and it costs about $14. It's amazing value and I gave 4 of them away as Christmas presents last year. They make great coffee table books. Many of the pictures are shown on their website: http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/ It takes a while to load this webpage. I was educated in the UK in the 70's and early 80's and never knew how much the phenomenon has evolved since then. There are so many and so complex, I can't see how they could all be man-made. As to what made them - well that is a mystery. Maybe Deva's are playing? Steve and Karen's book includes some which go beyond art and into communication with pictures of ET's and a complex message in binary code which appears to be a response to a message sent by radio signals into outer space. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" wrote: > > > > I wouldn't consider Erich Von Daniken a reliable guide > > to anything RJ, let alone archaeology. The guy was a > > dreamer and had some amazingly wild ideas about things > > most of them were just him interpreting things he didn't > > understand in terms of things he did. ... > > > > I always found them insulting to ancient man, the whole > > point of them is that our ancestors couldn't have done all > > the things they did without help from the space brothers, > > give em a bit of credit I say. ... > > > > And just because I couldn't knock up a crop circle in 4 > > hours doesn't mean someone else *couldn't* have got the hang > > of it. We know they are made by people as was the Shri Yantra, > > we *know* who builds them, to claim they are lying shows > > a desperation to believe there is more here than we know about. > > I've been staying out of this crop circle thread > because I have very little interest in crop circles, > except as 1) a believer phenomenon, and 2) as Earth Art. > > The thing I find most interesting about the believer > phenomenon is twofold. First, the seeming need some > people have to find a supernatural or extraterrestrial > "explanation" for crop circles. And second, the "team > effort" that seems to be going on among other humans, > who cater to these people's need, and who seem to do it > just for the FUN of it. > > I mean, it is probably more *likely* that each and > every one of these things was created by humans or by > natural phenomena than that they were created by Space > Brothers, right? Occam's Razor, probability, all that. > So who is DOING this stuff in the dead of night? > > It's like they are "Compassion Pranksters." Someday > 'way back when, when Mystery-starved people started to > trip on ancient peoples' Earth Art, and even started > tripping on natural circles appearing in fields, a few > people *noticed* the Mystery-starved people tripping > on such things, and decided to do something about it. > They got into creating MORE things for them to trip on. > > The people who trip on crop circles are IMO so starved > for Mystery in their lives that they now need Big > Mysteries to get them off. The mathematical perfection > of a rose or a child's laugh just doesn't DO it for them > any more, Mystery-wise. They need something more, some- > thing HUGE. > > And so the Compassion Pranksters get together in the middle > of the night and give these folks something HUGE, the Big > Mystery that the Mystery-starved can't see in their daily > lives, in the form of a crop circle or two. The Compassion > Pranksters have fun doing it, probably laughing and partying > the whole time, and the Nabby's of the world are happier, > because there suddenly appears in his life yet another Big > Mystery that only he and Benjamin Creme fully "understand." > > I see this as a somewhat symbiotic and essentially harmless > relationship. Win-win. The people who need Big Mysteries to > trip on get them and have fun tripping on them, and the > people who create the Big Mysteries have fun creating them. > No harm, no foul. > > That said, I do like crop circles as Earth Art. I'm a fan > of Earth Art -- using found materials to create a statement > about the nature of a place. > > I love Japanese Zen gardens -- possibly the pinnacle of Earth > Art. And I love places like Chaco Canyon. I love that it's > laid out along precise astronomical lines, with buildings a > half mile apart aligned to the centimeter along a line of > sight that ISN'T a line of sight, because there is a mountain > in the way. No one could have seen through the mountain TO > align the buildings this perfectly. I think that's neat. But > at the same time I give all the credit to the Anasazi them- > selves for figuring out how to do it. I don't have to think > that members of the City Plann
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I wouldn't consider Erich Von Daniken a reliable guide > to anything RJ, let alone archaeology. The guy was a > dreamer and had some amazingly wild ideas about things > most of them were just him interpreting things he didn't > understand in terms of things he did. ... > > I always found them insulting to ancient man, the whole > point of them is that our ancestors couldn't have done all > the things they did without help from the space brothers, > give em a bit of credit I say. ... > > And just because I couldn't knock up a crop circle in 4 > hours doesn't mean someone else *couldn't* have got the hang > of it. We know they are made by people as was the Shri Yantra, > we *know* who builds them, to claim they are lying shows > a desperation to believe there is more here than we know about. I've been staying out of this crop circle thread because I have very little interest in crop circles, except as 1) a believer phenomenon, and 2) as Earth Art. The thing I find most interesting about the believer phenomenon is twofold. First, the seeming need some people have to find a supernatural or extraterrestrial "explanation" for crop circles. And second, the "team effort" that seems to be going on among other humans, who cater to these people's need, and who seem to do it just for the FUN of it. I mean, it is probably more *likely* that each and every one of these things was created by humans or by natural phenomena than that they were created by Space Brothers, right? Occam's Razor, probability, all that. So who is DOING this stuff in the dead of night? It's like they are "Compassion Pranksters." Someday 'way back when, when Mystery-starved people started to trip on ancient peoples' Earth Art, and even started tripping on natural circles appearing in fields, a few people *noticed* the Mystery-starved people tripping on such things, and decided to do something about it. They got into creating MORE things for them to trip on. The people who trip on crop circles are IMO so starved for Mystery in their lives that they now need Big Mysteries to get them off. The mathematical perfection of a rose or a child's laugh just doesn't DO it for them any more, Mystery-wise. They need something more, some- thing HUGE. And so the Compassion Pranksters get together in the middle of the night and give these folks something HUGE, the Big Mystery that the Mystery-starved can't see in their daily lives, in the form of a crop circle or two. The Compassion Pranksters have fun doing it, probably laughing and partying the whole time, and the Nabby's of the world are happier, because there suddenly appears in his life yet another Big Mystery that only he and Benjamin Creme fully "understand." I see this as a somewhat symbiotic and essentially harmless relationship. Win-win. The people who need Big Mysteries to trip on get them and have fun tripping on them, and the people who create the Big Mysteries have fun creating them. No harm, no foul. That said, I do like crop circles as Earth Art. I'm a fan of Earth Art -- using found materials to create a statement about the nature of a place. I love Japanese Zen gardens -- possibly the pinnacle of Earth Art. And I love places like Chaco Canyon. I love that it's laid out along precise astronomical lines, with buildings a half mile apart aligned to the centimeter along a line of sight that ISN'T a line of sight, because there is a mountain in the way. No one could have seen through the mountain TO align the buildings this perfectly. I think that's neat. But at the same time I give all the credit to the Anasazi them- selves for figuring out how to do it. I don't have to think that members of the City Planning Dept. of Space Brothers Inc. came down and did the blueprints for them. BTW, if you are at all interested in Earth Art, may I recommend a BEAUTIFUL film that you might be able to find on Netflix or in specialty stores or libraries? It's called "Rivers and Tides," and is a documentary following the work of Andy Goldsworthy. He takes found natural materials and builds "time sculptures" with them -- art installations that are designed to be ephemeral. For example, he might build a elaborate driftwood sculpture in a tide pool during low tide, knowing that it will be washed away during the next high tide. Stunningly beautiful film, one that never fails to inspire the hell out of me. Here are a few YouTube clips from the film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5qrE_rBrJQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnek_0Dd9S8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBcdL8uO71E
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > > > > document an alleged creation of crop art > > > > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > > > > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > > > > the air, to confirm that the alleged > > > > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > > > > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > > > > the crop." > > > > > > > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > > > > > > > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have access > > > to a helicopter... > > > > Hugo wrote: > > > And even if you could prove that SOME circles were > > > manmade, you could never prove taht all are, so > > > its moot anyway. > > > > > Luckily, proof that "some" are man made isn't too > > far away. > > > > http://www.circlemakers.org/case_history.html > > > > Given that we know there are many people who make > > them why does anyone assume that *any* crop cricles > > are made by aliens/fairies/earth magic/whatever? > > > Maybe so, for modern land markings, but what about > ancient land markings? I wouldn't consider Erich Von Daniken a reliable guide to anything RJ, let alone archaeology. The guy was a dreamer and had some amazingly wild ideas about things most of them were just him interpreting things he didn't understand in terms of things he did. Like the drawings on the desert at Nazca in Peru, he claims they are landing marks for UFOS because they look like an airport and can only be seen from the air and must therefore have been made by people capable of flight. The truth is they are easy to make from the ground but no-one really knows why, the most recent idea being that they are a territorial map for the different tribes of the area to find their water wells up in the mountains as every one of them links up to an ancient pathway in the hills. Every one of his books has similar sci-fi explanations for things that he could learn about with a bit of effort. But they wouldn't sell as well. I always found them insulting to ancient man, the whole point of them is that our ancestors couldn't have done all the things they did without help from the space brothers, give em a bit of credit I say. The argument from personal incredulity is never very convincing, the pyramids are very impressive but they were built with a devotion that doesn't exist anymore. And just because I couldn't knock up a crop circle in 4 hours doesn't mean someone else *couldn't* have got the hang of it. We know they are made by people as was the Shri Yantra, we *know* who builds them, to claim they are lying shows a desperation to believe there is more here than we know about. > 'Chariots of the Gods' > by Erich von Daniken > Bantam, 1972 > http://tinyurl.com/579k3u >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'd like to see Dr.Peter and his friends do a > > complicated design in > > less than halfanhour in broad daylight AND without being > > detected ! :-) > > So the default position is that they're made by aliens? The default position is that some of them don't appear to have been made by humans. > That is absurd logic if it is true. Why not claim they are made > by Zantars or President Bush's penis? I mean, after all, there's > no evidence proving they are NOT made by said penis or Zantar.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> I'd like to see Dr.Peter and his friends > do a complicated design in less than > halfanhour in broad daylight... > I'd like to see Dr. Peter and any of his friends simply draw a Shri Yantra on a piece of paper with a crayon in a month or two! The most complex yantra, like the Oragon yantra, is the Shri Yantra of the tantric school of Sri Vidya. The structure of this yantra is described in Shankara's Saundaryalahari (Wave of Beauty). Construction of the Sri Yantra: http://tinyurl.com/6btvys > ...AND without being detected! > Dr. Pete probably can't even draw a simple rorschach! Rorschach inkblot test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_inkblot_test
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared > > > was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the > > > Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. > > > If you know anything about the psychology of > > perception, this is > > very easily explained, especially with a shape that is > > quite foreign > > to the pilot's' culture, which a sri yantra > > certainly is. The bottom > > line is that Bill W. and his friends made the sri yantra, > > so that is > > the foundation upon which everything else must be > > explained. > > > > Well, if the aliens are smart enough to travel many many > > light years > > in short enough time to still be alive, and/or have > > conquored aging, > > then doesn't it stand to reason that they may have > > disinformation > > methods that would blind and dazzle mere earth animals? > > > > Think man, think! > > > > And if Bill had done it, wouldn't it be obvious from > > the big "earth > > shoe" foot prints he would have left? > > And if mere earth teachers can make their students > > hallucinate, > > couldn't much more highly evolved aliens do at least > > this? > > And have we proved that the pilots were not aliens also? > > > > And if anyone are aliens, its gotta be GWB and DC. I mean, > > just LOOK a > > them. And listen to them! If they let the 911 jets safely > > pass into > > protected air space, don't you think they could give > > brother aliens a > > free pass? > > > > The truth is out there! > > Somebody's having too many thoughts! But at least they are funny thoughts! Did you ever see bill all dressed up in SIMS attire, blues suit and all, wearing earth shoes? Others did this too. My dad went to a lecture bill gave on TM for Executives or some such thing, and he commented on this too. Thought Bill was a good speaker and nice guy in talking to him afterwards, but said the shoes made him look a bit of the clown. (The point being if you are going to play the game enough to put on a blue suit,red shirt and red tie -- you appear pretty clueless if you add earth shoes to the attire. A TM lecture is not the place to make one's little "blows against the Empire" statements) In the above comments, poking fun at the logic of some that "it must be Z since A does not explain it" also seems somewhat parallel to to flying leaps we all made -- and lectured -- such as in recent discussions -- "different sounds have different effects on the nervous system" ERGO our special sound will make you healthy wealthy and wise. And/or, the dogmatic stance, or confirmational bias, of taking a conclusion as given, and then only seeing stuff that fills in the dots in the right way -- to confirm the prior conclusion. "Aliens must have done it" ERGO here are are a bunch of dots, chosen from 10,000 other possible dots that sort of make the conclusion possible. And this sort of logic can be pretty prevalent, in my experience, even amongst quite smart and educated people.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- On Sat, 7/26/08, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 > Swallows ! > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 11:50 AM > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > From: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop > Circle grown from > 3 to 5 Swallows ! > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard > J. Williams > > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:46 AM > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle > grown from 3 to > 5 Swallows ! > > > > > > > > > > >But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared > > was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the > > Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. > > If you know anything about the psychology of > perception, this is > very easily explained, especially with a shape that is > quite foreign > to the pilot's' culture, which a sri yantra > certainly is. The bottom > line is that Bill W. and his friends made the sri yantra, > so that is > the foundation upon which everything else must be > explained. > > Well, if the aliens are smart enough to travel many many > light years > in short enough time to still be alive, and/or have > conquored aging, > then doesn't it stand to reason that they may have > disinformation > methods that would blind and dazzle mere earth animals? > > Think man, think! > > And if Bill had done it, wouldn't it be obvious from > the big "earth > shoe" foot prints he would have left? > > And if mere earth teachers can make their students > hallucinate, > couldn't much more highly evolved aliens do at least > this? > > And have we proved that the pilots were not aliens also? > > And if anyone are aliens, its gotta be GWB and DC. I mean, > just LOOK a > them. And listen to them! If they let the 911 jets safely > pass into > protected air space, don't you think they could give > brother aliens a > free pass? > > The truth is out there! Somebody's having too many thoughts! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 9:37 AM > > > > > > > > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard J. Williams > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:46 AM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! > > > > > >But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared > was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the > Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. > If you know anything about the psychology of perception, this is very easily explained, especially with a shape that is quite foreign to the pilot's' culture, which a sri yantra certainly is. The bottom line is that Bill W. and his friends made the sri yantra, so that is the foundation upon which everything else must be explained. Well, if the aliens are smart enough to travel many many light years in short enough time to still be alive, and/or have conquored aging, then doesn't it stand to reason that they may have disinformation methods that would blind and dazzle mere earth animals? Think man, think! And if Bill had done it, wouldn't it be obvious from the big "earth shoe" foot prints he would have left? And if mere earth teachers can make their students hallucinate, couldn't much more highly evolved aliens do at least this? And have we proved that the pilots were not aliens also? And if anyone are aliens, its gotta be GWB and DC. I mean, just LOOK a them. And listen to them! If they let the 911 jets safely pass into protected air space, don't you think they could give brother aliens a free pass? The truth is out there! > > > > > > >
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- On Sat, 7/26/08, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 9:37 AM From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard J. Williams Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:46 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! >But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. If you know anything about the psychology of perception, this is very easily explained, especially with a shape that is quite foreign to the pilot's' culture, which a sri yantra certainly is. The bottom line is that Bill W. and his friends made the sri yantra, so that is the foundation upon which everything else must be explained.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard J. Williams Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:46 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! >But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. It wasn't. it took them quite a few days, working in the hot sun. I just took a while before the National Guard pilot noticed it. I know the guys involved and see them regularly to this day: Bill Witherspoon, Bob Hoerlein, Mark Petrick, I think Michael Cain, a few others. I've seen photos of them working on the project. I believe in aliens and tend to believe they are involved in many of the crop circles, but they weren't involved in the Oregon yantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > > > document an alleged creation of crop art > > > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > > > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > > > the air, to confirm that the alleged > > > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > > > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > > > the crop." > > > > > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > > > > Lawson wrote: > > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have > > access to a helicopter... > > > But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared > was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the > Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. > > Is it possible for a couple of good ole boys to > carve thirteen miles of grooves in the desert > in the middle of a single night with such remarkable > precision? > > Was Bill arrested for defacing public land? > > > And even if you could prove that SOME circles were > > manmade, you could never prove taht all are, so > > its moot anyway. > > > But, there's no proof that any of the crop circles > were man-made, since the actions on the ground were > not substantiated with aerial photography from > above. > > Oregon Sri Yantra: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mr2G1 Some circles are manmade, but they are easy to detect. First of all they are quite crude and very simple designs. If you look closely at a real circle you will see that the straws are carefully bent to the ground, the straws are not damaged. Manmade ones destroys the straws. Also many of the real ones have been done within a timeframe of as little as 20 minutes, as many pilots will confirm. I'd like to see Dr.Peter and his friends do a complicated design in less than halfanhour in broad daylight AND without being detected ! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> > > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > > > document an alleged creation of crop art > > > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > > > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > > > the air, to confirm that the alleged > > > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > > > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > > > the crop." > > > > > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > > > > > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have access > > to a helicopter... > > Hugo wrote: > > And even if you could prove that SOME circles were > > manmade, you could never prove taht all are, so > > its moot anyway. > > > Luckily, proof that "some" are man made isn't too > far away. > > http://www.circlemakers.org/case_history.html > > Given that we know there are many people who make > them why does anyone assume that *any* crop cricles > are made by aliens/fairies/earth magic/whatever? > Maybe so, for modern land markings, but what about ancient land markings? 'Chariots of the Gods' by Erich von Daniken Bantam, 1972 http://tinyurl.com/579k3u
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
> > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > > document an alleged creation of crop art > > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > > the air, to confirm that the alleged > > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > > the crop." > > > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > > Lawson wrote: > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have > access to a helicopter... > But the area where the Oregon Shri Yantra appeared was in the flight path of helicopters, and yet the Shri Yantra seems to have been constructed overnight. Is it possible for a couple of good ole boys to carve thirteen miles of grooves in the desert in the middle of a single night with such remarkable precision? Was Bill arrested for defacing public land? > And even if you could prove that SOME circles were > manmade, you could never prove taht all are, so > its moot anyway. > But, there's no proof that any of the crop circles were man-made, since the actions on the ground were not substantiated with aerial photography from above. Oregon Sri Yantra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mr2G1
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
new wrote: > But no one proved that Bill is not an alien, did they? > Has anyone proved that we are all not aliens?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 > Swallows ! > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 10:06 PM > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Nabs, > > I won't make smarmy comments, but I have a really > hard time > believing crop circles have any sort of extra terrestrial > origin. From > what I've read, all evidence to the contrary is ignored > and there's > seems to be an apriori assumption that its aliens. Bill > Witherspoon's > Shri Yantra in Oregan in 1990 is a classic case of this. > Bill and > several other people all worked together to make the > yantra. A very > much earth-bound event, but after it was discovered, for > his life, he > couldn't convince the ufo people that he had done it. > They came up > with "facts" to disprove him. Incredible! > > But no one proved that Bill is not an alien, did they? You know, I never thought about that. Bill definitely has an alien air about him! Quite dour too. > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/25/08, nablusoss1008 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > From: nablusoss1008 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] South Field Crop Circle > grown from 3 to 5 > Swallows ! > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:26 PM > > > > http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/southfield/southfield2008.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Or go to: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote: > > > > Lawson wrote: > > > A tornado-level whirlwind that forms for > > > just a second could easily tear a simple > > > circle in a field and give rise to the > > > original sightings. > > > > > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > > document an alleged creation of crop art > > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > > the air, to confirm that the alleged > > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > > the crop." > > > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > > > > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have access to a helicopter... > > > And even if you could prove that SOME circles were manmade, you could > never prove taht all are, so its moot anyway. Luckily, proof that "some" are man made isn't too far away. http://www.circlemakers.org/case_history.html Given that we know there are many people who make them why does anyone assume that *any* crop cricles are made by aliens/fairies/earth magic/whatever? > L. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Nabs, > I won't make smarmy comments, but I have a really hard time believing crop circles have any sort of extra terrestrial origin. From what I've read, all evidence to the contrary is ignored and there's seems to be an apriori assumption that its aliens. Bill Witherspoon's Shri Yantra in Oregan in 1990 is a classic case of this. Bill and several other people all worked together to make the yantra. A very much earth-bound event, but after it was discovered, for his life, he couldn't convince the ufo people that he had done it. They came up with "facts" to disprove him. Incredible! But no one proved that Bill is not an alien, did they? > > > --- On Fri, 7/25/08, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows ! > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 1:26 PM > > http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/southfield/southfield2008.html > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lawson wrote: > > A tornado-level whirlwind that forms for > > just a second could easily tear a simple > > circle in a field and give rise to the > > original sightings. > > > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere > document an alleged creation of crop art > (alleged man-made patterns) in progress > from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from > the air, to confirm that the alleged > 'finished product' is indeed what the people > 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in > the crop." > > http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html > Well, your average good ole boy doesn't have access to a helicopter... And even if you could prove that SOME circles were manmade, you could never prove taht all are, so its moot anyway. L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
Lawson wrote: > A tornado-level whirlwind that forms for > just a second could easily tear a simple > circle in a field and give rise to the > original sightings. > "NO video footage or photographs anywhere document an alleged creation of crop art (alleged man-made patterns) in progress from ground level AND SIMULTANEOUSLY from the air, to confirm that the alleged 'finished product' is indeed what the people 'below' are alleging to have stomped out in the crop." http://cropcircleconnector.com/ilyes/ilyes9.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
Peter wrote: > A very much earth-bound event, but > after it was discovered, for his life, > he couldn't convince the ufo people that > he had done it. They came up with "facts" > to disprove him. Incredible! > Is there any evidence, other than what Bill said, to prove that he and his friends made the Oregon Shri Yantra?
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter wrote: > > > > Nabs, > > I won't make smarmy comments, but I have a really hard time believing crop > > circles have > any sort of extra terrestrial origin. From what I've read, all evidence to > the contrary is ignored > and there's seems to be an apriori assumption that its aliens. Bill > Witherspoon's Shri Yantra in > Oregan in 1990 is a classic case of this. Bill and several other people all > worked together to > make the yantra. A very much earth-bound event, but after it was discovered, > for his life, he > couldn't convince the ufo people that he had done it. They came up with > "facts" to disprove > him. Incredible! > > My own suspicion is that the first crop circles were really simple things > made by > whirlwinds and some good ole boys in various parts of the world saw how > freaked > everyone was by a simple circle and started making elaborate hoaxes to yank > everyone around. > > They weren't called "crop circles" because they formed elaborate patterns... > BTW, I've seen a "dust devil" about a foot in diameter and 100 feet tall standing still for a minute or so in an open field in AZ, hissing loud enough you could here it from 100 feet away. That's a FAST wind. And a guy from the US weather service once told me that dust devils can reach Tornado 1 force, but since they don't have any moisture they don't show up on radar, and aren't counted as official tornados even though they are just as destructive as an official one. A tornado-level whirlwind that forms for just a second could easily tear a simple circle in a field and give rise to the original sightings. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: South Field Crop Circle grown from 3 to 5 Swallows !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Nabs, > I won't make smarmy comments, but I have a really hard time believing crop > circles have any sort of extra terrestrial origin. From what I've read, all evidence to the contrary is ignored and there's seems to be an apriori assumption that its aliens. Bill Witherspoon's Shri Yantra in Oregan in 1990 is a classic case of this. Bill and several other people all worked together to make the yantra. A very much earth-bound event, but after it was discovered, for his life, he couldn't convince the ufo people that he had done it. They came up with "facts" to disprove him. Incredible! My own suspicion is that the first crop circles were really simple things made by whirlwinds and some good ole boys in various parts of the world saw how freaked everyone was by a simple circle and started making elaborate hoaxes to yank everyone around. They weren't called "crop circles" because they formed elaborate patterns... Lawson
