[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-07 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

   Oh, well, niivaara, no wonder. That changes everything! ;-)
  
  It actually *does*:
  
  4   ***nivAra   m. keeping off*** , hindering , impediment (cf. 
  %{dur-niv-}) ; (%{A}) f. N. of a river MBh. VP. (v.l. %{nIv-}).
  5   nIvArA  v.l. for %{nivArA} (see under %{ni-vR}).
  6   nIvara  m. ( %{nI}? ; cf. Un2. iii.) a trader ; an inhabitant ; a 
  beggar ; mud ; n. water L.
  7   ***nIvAra   m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice*** (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
  grains)
 
 Yeah, but was the nIvAra wearing a hat?
 

I think I've seen him wearing a hat rather like
the one Tibetan monks are sometimes using. 
Seems quite a lot like UFO/ETI-inspired... :D

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/SR22/






[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-07 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote:
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ 

The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:

nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...
   
   Er...niivaara
  
  Oh, well, niivaara, no wonder. That changes everything! ;-)
 
 It actually *does*:

Oh, Card, I'm sure it does. I was kidding you by pretending
to be shocked when I have no more idea what the difference
is than the man in the moon. I'm awed by your scholarship.


 4 ***nivAra   m. keeping off*** , hindering , impediment (cf. 
 %{dur-niv-}) ; (%{A}) f. N. of a river MBh. VP. (v.l. %{nIv-}).
 5 nIvArA  v.l. for %{nivArA} (see under %{ni-vR}).
 6 nIvara  m. ( %{nI}? ; cf. Un2. iii.) a trader ; an inhabitant ; a 
 beggar ; mud ; n. water L.
 7 ***nIvAra   m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice*** (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
 grains)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk
Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas I've 
seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.

However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of the new 
world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER America was 
discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn below.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:

 
 
 ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
 a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
 
 Know that heart to be the abode of God.
 Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
 
 At its end is a subtle nerve,
 in which is established the Being, who is everything.
 
 A great fire is at its center, which has
 flames all around, spreading in all directions.
 
 It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
 who digests and circulates food.
 
 Above and below are its spreading flames.
 It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
 
 At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
 like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
 flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
 
 At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
 He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
 
 
 He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
 
 
 - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
 
 from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
 http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread do.rflex


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:

 Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas I've 
 seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
 
 However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of the 
 new world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER America 
 was discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn below.
 


Of course, Tony. The Taittariya Aranyaka is from the Yajur Veda which 
originated in ancient India.



 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
 
  
  
  ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
  a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
  
  Know that heart to be the abode of God.
  Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
  
  At its end is a subtle nerve,
  in which is established the Being, who is everything.
  
  A great fire is at its center, which has
  flames all around, spreading in all directions.
  
  It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
  who digests and circulates food.
  
  Above and below are its spreading flames.
  It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
  
  At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
  like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
  flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
  
  At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
  He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
  
  
  He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
  
  
  - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
  
  from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
  http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp
 





Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Dec 6, 2009, at 8:35 AM, ShempMcGurk wrote:

 Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas I've 
 seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
 
 However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of the 
 new world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER America 
 was discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn below.

Tomatoes, corn, potatoes, and I think certain 
types of beans also...maybe cocoa? 

Sal



[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
 
  Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas I've 
  seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
  
  However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of the 
  new world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER America 
  was discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn below.
  
 
 
 Of course, Tony. The Taittariya Aranyaka is from the Yajur Veda which 
 originated in ancient India.
 



Then I'm confused.

Firstly, I am assuming that the Taittariya Aranyaka was cognized way before 
1492 when Columbus landed on the shores of America.  If this assumption is 
correct, how then can there be a reference to corn if it wasn't introduced to 
India, Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world until afterwards?





 
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
  
   
   
   ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
   a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
   
   Know that heart to be the abode of God.
   Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
   
   At its end is a subtle nerve,
   in which is established the Being, who is everything.
   
   A great fire is at its center, which has
   flames all around, spreading in all directions.
   
   It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
   who digests and circulates food.
   
   Above and below are its spreading flames.
   It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
   
   At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
   like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
   flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
   
   At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
   He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
   
   
   He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
   
   
   - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
   
   from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
   http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote:

 On Dec 6, 2009, at 8:35 AM, ShempMcGurk wrote:
 
  Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas I've 
  seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
  
  However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of the 
  new world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER America 
  was discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn below.
 
 Tomatoes, corn, potatoes, and I think certain 
 types of beans also...maybe cocoa? 
 
 Sal



And tobacco!



[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk
Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize in ancient times which 
answers a lot of my questions!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
  
   Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts from the Vedas 
   I've seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
   
   However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn were products of 
   the new world; that is, they were introduced to the old world AFTER 
   America was discovered.  But there is of course the reference to corn 
   below.
   
  
  
  Of course, Tony. The Taittariya Aranyaka is from the Yajur Veda which 
  originated in ancient India.
  
 
 
 
 Then I'm confused.
 
 Firstly, I am assuming that the Taittariya Aranyaka was cognized way before 
 1492 when Columbus landed on the shores of America.  If this assumption is 
 correct, how then can there be a reference to corn if it wasn't introduced to 
 India, Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world until afterwards?
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
   


...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
a span below the neck and a span above the navel.

Know that heart to be the abode of God.
Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.

At its end is a subtle nerve,
in which is established the Being, who is everything.

A great fire is at its center, which has
flames all around, spreading in all directions.

It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
who digests and circulates food.

Above and below are its spreading flames.
It keeps its body hot from head to feet.

At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.

At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.


He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.


- excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13

from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp
   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:

 Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize
 in ancient times which answers a lot of my questions!

Has it occurred to you to wonder why, if a Sanskrit term
that we were sure referred to maize was used in the Vedas,
the evidence cited for the existence of maize in ancient
India has to do with sculpture that appears to portray
maize, and the references to it in the Vedas aren't
mentioned at all?




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
  
   Wow. What a find.  One of the most incredible excerpts
   from the Vedas I've seen.  Thanks to John for posting it.
   
   However, I always thought that both tomatoes and corn
   were products of the new world; that is, they were
   introduced to the old world AFTER America was
   discovered.  But there is of course the reference to
   corn below.
  
  Of course, Tony. The Taittariya Aranyaka is from the
  Yajur Veda which originated in ancient India.
 
 Then I'm confused.

No, he is. He got your question backwards.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
 
  Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize
  in ancient times which answers a lot of my questions!
 
 Has it occurred to you to wonder why, if a Sanskrit term
 that we were sure referred to maize was used in the Vedas,
 the evidence cited for the existence of maize in ancient
 India has to do with sculpture that appears to portray
 maize, and the references to it in the Vedas aren't
 mentioned at all?



Could you please reword that question?



[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread WillyTex
  The Taittariya Aranyaka is from the Yajur 
  Veda which originated in ancient India.
  
Shemp McGurk wrote: 
 Then I'm confused.
 
 Firstly, I am assuming that the Taittariya 
 Aranyaka was cognized way before 1492 when 
 Columbus landed on the shores of America.  
 If this assumption is correct, how then can 
 there be a reference to corn if it wasn't 
 introduced to India, Europe, Asia, and the 
 rest of the world until afterwards?
 
Simple: The Mormon God brought the corn with 
him to the New World before the advent of 
agriculture.

From: Duwaynea Anderson
Subject: Re: John Manning a fool
Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon, 
alt.religion, soc.culture.jewish
Date: November 20, 2009



[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread TurquoiseB
John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
only assume that the translator's choice of language
is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
need for an exact translation, merely one that
captured what he saw in the verse. 

But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.

It reminds me more than anything else of a classic
Monty Python bit, in which the only word that the
participants felt worth discussing was hats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:

 ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
 a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
 
 Know that heart to be the abode of God.
 Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
 
 At its end is a subtle nerve,
 in which is established the Being, who is everything.
 
 A great fire is at its center, which has
 flames all around, spreading in all directions.
 
 It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
 who digests and circulates food.
 
 Above and below are its spreading flames.
 It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
 
 At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
 like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
 flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
 
 At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
 He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
 
 
 He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
 
 
 - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
 
 from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
 http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
  
   Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize
   in ancient times which answers a lot of my questions!
  
  Has it occurred to you to wonder why, if a Sanskrit term
  that we were sure referred to maize was used in the Vedas,
  the evidence cited for the existence of maize in ancient
  India has to do with sculpture that appears to portray
  maize, and the references to it in the Vedas aren't
  mentioned at all?
 
 Could you please reword that question?

Why isn't *linguistic* evidence what is cited for the
existence of maize in ancient India?

If we know the Sanskrit word translated corn refers
to maize, and we want to prove that maize existed at
the time of the Vedas, why don't we just say, Well,
the Vedas talk about maize, so obviously it existed in
India back then?

Instead, the cited evidence is *sculpture* of what is
thought to look like ears of maize. Not nearly as
definitive.

The point being that we *don't* know that the word
translated corn referred to maize. Given that the
word corn used to mean grain in general, and this
is a rather old-fashioned translation, it makes more
sense to assume that the Sanskrit term referred to
grain in general as well.

As to your question about yellow awn, the awn of
corn isn't any yellower than that of most grains;
the awns are typically sort of beige. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MatureSweetCorn.jpg




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread do.rflex


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
 only assume that the translator's choice of language
 is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
 need for an exact translation, merely one that
 captured what he saw in the verse. 
 


Why do you assume that the author's words aren't an exact translation?




 But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
 quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
 appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
 verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.
 


Indeed. 

Considering that the whole Transcendental Meditation teaching according to MMY, 
is based on the authenticity of the Vedas, it IS interesting (but not very 
surprising) to me that not one person other than you has said one word about 
the topic itself. 

Rather, the comments are confined to quibbling about whether or not there was 
corn in ancient India.  

Chuckle




 It reminds me more than anything else of a classic
 Monty Python bit, in which the only word that the
 participants felt worth discussing was hats.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
 
  ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
  a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
  
  Know that heart to be the abode of God.
  Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
  
  At its end is a subtle nerve,
  in which is established the Being, who is everything.
  
  A great fire is at its center, which has
  flames all around, spreading in all directions.
  
  It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
  who digests and circulates food.
  
  Above and below are its spreading flames.
  It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
  
  At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
  like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
  flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
  
  At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
  He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
  
  
  He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
  
  
  - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
  
  from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
  http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
  only assume that the translator's choice of language
  is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
  need for an exact translation, merely one that
  captured what he saw in the verse. 
 
 Why do you assume that the author's words aren't an exact 
 translation?

Just a hunch, based on the fact that they don't
sound anything like any translations of the Rig
Veda I've ever heard before. They sound more like,
say, Robert Bly's tranalations of Rumi, done 
poetically and eloquently, but without knowing
a word of the original language.

  But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
  quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
  appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
  verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.
 
 Indeed. 
 
 Considering that the whole Transcendental Meditation 
 teaching according to MMY, is based on the authenticity 
 of the Vedas, it IS interesting (but not very surprising) 
 to me that not one person other than you has said one 
 word about the topic itself. 
 
 Rather, the comments are confined to quibbling about 
 whether or not there was corn in ancient India.  
 
 Chuckle

Yuppers. 

Don't look for a great deal of more interesting
insight from me. I found it a really unique way
of describing the heart chakra, but these days
describing the chakras is not so much my interest
as utilizing them in various forms of meditation.

  It reminds me more than anything else of a classic
  Monty Python bit, in which the only word that the
  participants felt worth discussing was hats.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ

  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
  
   ...Like a lotus turned downwards is the heart,
   a span below the neck and a span above the navel.
   
   Know that heart to be the abode of God.
   Surrounded by nerves, it hangs down like a lotus bud.
   
   At its end is a subtle nerve,
   in which is established the Being, who is everything.
   
   A great fire is at its center, which has
   flames all around, spreading in all directions.
   
   It is the first partaker, the ageless knower,
   who digests and circulates food.
   
   Above and below are its spreading flames.
   It keeps its body hot from head to feet.
   
   At its core lies a flame, tapering finely upwards,
   like the awn of corn, yellow, bright and subtle,
   flashing like a lightening in the heart of a dark cloud.
   
   At the center of this flame is installed the Supreme Being.
   He is Brahman. He is Siva. He is Indra.
   
   
   He is the indestructible Supreme Being, the lord Himself.
   
   
   - excerpts from the Taittariya Aranyaka III.13
   
   from Hymns of the Rig Veda - Compiled by Jayaram V
   http://www.hinduwebsite.com/vedicsection/rigvedichymns.asp
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
 only assume that the translator's choice of language
 is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
 need for an exact translation, merely one that
 captured what he saw in the verse.

Precisely.

 But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
 quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
 appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
 verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.

Actually, one person asked a question about
something that puzzled him, and the rest of us
were trying to help him out. (I was actually
trying to steer him in the direction of what you
suggest above, but you wouldn't know that, of
course, since you assume the lines you deign to
read in Message View give you the complete
picture).

 It reminds me more than anything else of a classic
 Monty Python bit, in which the only word that the
 participants felt worth discussing was hats.

Yes, and what is it that *you* feel like discussing
about these verses? Looks like the only thing you
feel worth discussing is how trivial the concerns
of the rest of us are.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
  only assume that the translator's choice of language
  is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
  need for an exact translation, merely one that
  captured what he saw in the verse. 
 
 Why do you assume that the author's words aren't an exact translation?
 
  But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
  quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
  appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
  verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.
 
 Indeed. 
 
 Considering that the whole Transcendental Meditation
 teaching according to MMY, is based on the authenticity
 of the Vedas, it IS interesting (but not very surprising)
 to me that not one person other than you has said one
 word about the topic itself.

NEWS FLASH: Barry hasn't said anything about the topic
itself either.

 Rather, the comments are confined to quibbling about
 whether or not there was corn in ancient India.

And Barry's are confined, Chuckles, to putting down
those who are not talking about the topic itself,
without *himself* saying anything about it either.

 Chuckle

horselaugh




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread Vaj

On Dec 6, 2009, at 12:59 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
   only assume that the translator's choice of language
   is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
   need for an exact translation, merely one that
   captured what he saw in the verse. 
  
  Why do you assume that the author's words aren't an exact 
  translation?
 
 Just a hunch, based on the fact that they don't
 sound anything like any translations of the Rig
 Veda I've ever heard before. They sound more like,
 say, Robert Bly's tranalations of Rumi, done 
 poetically and eloquently, but without knowing
 a word of the original language.

TMer's like to call many things the Veda or Vedic which are not. I'd be 
careful of confusing the Taittariya Aranyaka with Taittariya Upanishad. The 
Taittariya Aranyaka is a sacrificial manual! The chapter 3 that is excerpted 
here, seems to be borrowing yogic (non-Vedic) terminology and this chapter 
'treats technicalities of several other homas and yajnas'. I've actually met 
Brahmins from the Taittariya Upanishad line. 

Fifth and Sixth Anuvakas try to describe Brahman in the form of Vyahrutis. The 
words Bhooh , Bhuvah, Suvah, Mahah, Janah, Tapah and Satyam 
arecalled seven Vyahruti's or Sapta Vyahrutis. Those familiar with the 
original mantric practice of the Age of Enlightenment technique will 
immediately recognize these mantras.

Full Age of Enlightenment Technique

After TMSP:

Place attention on the following:

Nostrils
Lips
Ears Eyes
Between Brows
Top of head
Whole head
Throat
Chest
Stomach
Sides of the body
Back
Upper back
Shoulder blades
Upper arms
Lower arms
Palms
Fingers
Upper legs
Ankles
Feet
Whole body

Then have sequential awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras 
which follow.

City you are in
Country you are in
Continent (North/SouthAmerica)
Africa
Europe
Austral-Asia
Whole world
Earth and the Sun together
The Solar System
The Galaxy
Clusters of Galaxies
Whole Universe
The Absolute
The Whole Body

Lokas (done simultaneously with the above):

Om Bhu (utter at level of clouds)
Om Bhu Va (higher and higher)
Om Sva
Om Maha
Om Jana
Om Tapa
Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum)

When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of the head.

Have an awareness of the Whole Body.

Sutra: Soma, soma, soma.

Rest 5-10 minutes.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:
snip
 Just a hunch, based on the fact that they don't
 sound anything like any translations of the Rig
 Veda I've ever heard before.

Interesting. They sound exactly like the vast majority
of the translations I've heard of the Rig Veda and Vedic
literature generally, very flowery. Most of the important
ones were made a century or more ago.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote:

 On Dec 6, 2009, at 12:59 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
   
John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
only assume that the translator's choice of language
is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
need for an exact translation, merely one that
captured what he saw in the verse. 
   
   Why do you assume that the author's words aren't an exact 
   translation?
  
  Just a hunch, based on the fact that they don't
  sound anything like any translations of the Rig
  Veda I've ever heard before. They sound more like,
  say, Robert Bly's tranalations of Rumi, done 
  poetically and eloquently, but without knowing
  a word of the original language.
 
 TMer's like to call many things the Veda or Vedic which 
 are not. I'd be careful of confusing the Taittariya Aranyaka 
 with Taittariya Upanishad. The Taittariya Aranyaka is a 
 sacrificial manual! The chapter 3 that is excerpted here, 
 seems to be borrowing yogic (non-Vedic) terminology and this 
 chapter 'treats technicalities of several other homas and 
 yajnas'. I've actually met Brahmins from the Taittariya 
 Upanishad line. 

As has been noted before, I have zero interest in
describing the human body in terms of the resting
place of various gods. Therefore, describing the
heart chakra as the home of Brahman, Shiva and 
Indra does not exactly float my interest boat. :-)
I do find it interesting that the seer didn't include
any *godesses* in a description of -- duh -- the
heart chakra, but that's probably just me.

The one thing that struck me as curious, though,
especially given your suggestion that this text may
have borrowed from yogic terminology and concepts,
is the description of the heart chakra as keeping
the body warm from head to feet.

That sounds very yogic, but experientially...uh...
wrong. I certainly can't claim to have learned all
of the various techniques associated with tumo or
the generation of bodily heat, but all of the ones
I have learned utilized the navel chakra, not the
heart chakra. If this verse is taken to suggest an
actual technique for keeping the body warm, my
suspicion is that the yogi/seer who cognized it was
very short, and thus his navel chakra and heart
chakra were so close together that the technique
worked for him anyway.  :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread ShempMcGurk


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:


[snip]



 
 But what fascinates me is what was *made* of the
 quote here. Even reading only in Message View, it
 appears that the only thing a few folks saw in the
 verse worth discussing was one word -- corn.


[snip]


Your reading comprehension skills suck, Barry.

Reread what I originally responded to John and you'll see that the rest of the 
verse -- indeed, the entire verse -- I considered incredible.  As such, it was 
complete and other than praising it, which I did, there really wasn't anything 
else to discuss about it.

Not discussing something doesn't mean one feels it worthless.  Au contraire, it 
is because of its completeness and beauty that no other discussion need take 
place.

But thank you, Barry, for managing to find the single shit stain in an 
otherwise interesting and beautiful thread.  We can always count on you for 
that.



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread Vaj

On Dec 6, 2009, at 1:50 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:

 
 The one thing that struck me as curious, though,
 especially given your suggestion that this text may
 have borrowed from yogic terminology and concepts,
 is the description of the heart chakra as keeping
 the body warm from head to feet.

Once one has stabilized the kundalini at the navel, it's raised and spread 
throughout the bodies' entire network as the energy refines, finer and finer. 
So, for example, in tummo, one of the things that will get quite hot are the 
fingers (in very experienced practitioners).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread cardemaister





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
 
  Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize
  in ancient times which answers a lot of my questions!
 
 Has it occurred to you to wonder why, if a Sanskrit term
 that we were sure referred to maize was used in the Vedas,
 the evidence cited for the existence of maize in ancient
 India has to do with sculpture that appears to portray
 maize, and the references to it in the Vedas aren't
 mentioned at all?


The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:

nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...

(nivaara-shuukavat tanvii piitaa...)

Vocabulary:

nIvAra (niivaara)   m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
grains) VS. S3Br. MBh. c. ;

zUka (shuuka)   m. n. (g. %{ardharcA7di} ; derivation doubtful) the awn of 
grain R. Sarvad. 

The suffix -vat after 'shuuka' means 'like' (adv.
1. In the manner of being; as if. )






[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... 
 
 
 The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:
 
 nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...

Er...niivaara

 

 Vocabulary:
 
 nIvAra (niivaara) m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
 grains) VS. S3Br. MBh. c. ;
 
 zUka (shuuka) m. n. (g. %{ardharcA7di} ; derivation doubtful) the awn 
 of grain R. Sarvad. 
 
 The suffix -vat after 'shuuka' means 'like' (adv.
 1. In the manner of being; as if. )





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcgurk@ wrote:
  
   Okay, I have now seen John's subsequent posting on Maize
   in ancient times which answers a lot of my questions!
  
  Has it occurred to you to wonder why, if a Sanskrit term
  that we were sure referred to maize was used in the Vedas,
  the evidence cited for the existence of maize in ancient
  India has to do with sculpture that appears to portray
  maize, and the references to it in the Vedas aren't
  mentioned at all?
 
 The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:
 
 nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...
 
 (nivaara-shuukavat tanvii piitaa...)
 
 Vocabulary:
 
 nIvAra (niivaara) m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
 grains) VS. S3Br. MBh. c. ;
 
 zUka (shuuka) m. n. (g. %{ardharcA7di} ; derivation doubtful) the awn 
 of grain R. Sarvad. 
 
 The suffix -vat after 'shuuka' means 'like' (adv.
 1. In the manner of being; as if. )

Must mean uncultivated rice, rather than wild rice
as we know it, which isn't actually rice, and which is
native to North America and China but not India.

But here's a picture of a rice field in India in which
the awns sure look yellow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14120...@n02/1692596580/

At any rate, I gather there's nothing to link the term
to maize. Thanks, card!




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread WillyTex
  John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
  only assume that the translator's choice of language
  is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
  need for an exact translation, merely one that
  captured what he saw in the verse. 
  
John wrote:
 Why do you assume that the author's words aren't 
 an exact translation?
 
Because 'Siva' wasn't invented until the age of the 
devotional sects in India? There is no mention of 
'Shiva' in the Rig Veda. These terms came much later 
after Shankara in the 9th century. The Rig Veda is 
concerned with the supernal dieties, the personified 
forces of nature - there are no devatas mentioned in 
the Rig Veda and no Supreme Being called 'Brahman'.
The term Brahman isn't used until the composition of
the Upanishads. 

  At the center of this flame is installed the 
  Supreme Being. He is Brahman. He is Siva...
 



[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

   John, this was actually a very sweet quote. I can
   only assume that the translator's choice of language
   is extremely poetic, and that he did not feel the
   need for an exact translation, merely one that
   captured what he saw in the verse. 
   
 John wrote:
  Why do you assume that the author's words aren't 
  an exact translation?
  
 Because 'Siva' wasn't invented until the age of the 
 devotional sects in India? There is no mention of 
 'Shiva' in the Rig Veda. These terms came much later 
 after Shankara in the 9th century. The Rig Veda is 
 concerned with the supernal dieties, the personified 
 forces of nature - there are no devatas mentioned in 
 the Rig Veda and no Supreme Being called 'Brahman'.
 The term Brahman isn't used until the composition of
 the Upanishads. 

I think TaittiriiyaaraNyaka belongs to kRSNa-yajur-veda.
That line seems to go like this:

sa brahma sa shivassa harissendras...
(sa brahma sa shivaH sa hariH sa + indraH...)

He [is] Brahma(n), he [is] Shiva, etc. 


 
   At the center of this flame is installed the 
   Supreme Being. He is Brahman. He is Siva...
  





[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ 
  
  The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:
  
  nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...
 
 Er...niivaara

Oh, well, niivaara, no wonder. That changes everything! ;-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread cardemaister


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ 
   
   The beginning of the  line in question seems to go like this:
   
   nivaarashuukavattanvii piitaa...
  
  Er...niivaara
 
 Oh, well, niivaara, no wonder. That changes everything! ;-)


It actually *does*:

4   ***nivAra   m. keeping off*** , hindering , impediment (cf. 
%{dur-niv-}) ; (%{A}) f. N. of a river MBh. VP. (v.l. %{nIv-}).
5   nIvArA  v.l. for %{nivArA} (see under %{ni-vR}).
6   nIvara  m. ( %{nI}? ; cf. Un2. iii.) a trader ; an inhabitant ; a 
beggar ; mud ; n. water L.
7   ***nIvAra   m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice*** (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
grains) 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Your heart is the abode of God [Rig Veda]

2009-12-06 Thread TurquoiseB
  Oh, well, niivaara, no wonder. That changes everything! ;-)
 
 It actually *does*:
 
 4 ***nivAra   m. keeping off*** , hindering , impediment (cf. 
 %{dur-niv-}) ; (%{A}) f. N. of a river MBh. VP. (v.l. %{nIv-}).
 5 nIvArA  v.l. for %{nivArA} (see under %{ni-vR}).
 6 nIvara  m. ( %{nI}? ; cf. Un2. iii.) a trader ; an inhabitant ; a 
 beggar ; mud ; n. water L.
 7 ***nIvAra   m. (ifc. f. %{A}) wild rice*** (sg. the plant ; pl. the 
 grains)

Yeah, but was the nIvAra wearing a hat?

We know that people aren't wearing enough of them,
but did Vedic grains wear enough hats. And even 
more important, was Shiva wearing a hat? These 
things, after all, are the important things in 
the verse.  :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ

My point is simply that of all the comments on the
heady corn controversy, Sal's seems most apt. 
The whole discussion seems to have been a defense
of the idea that 1) the Vedas can't possibly have
been wrong about something, followed by 2) India
can't possibly have been less than the wonderful
place we've been told it was in Vedic times,
cruising the world in its many navy vessels,
transporting its crops to the rest of the world,
spreading the light of knowledge everywhere.

Meanwhile, so far only Vaj and Barry discussed the
heart chakra being described in the verse as if 
they had any personal experience with it.

Classic Fairfield Life. :-)