Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to oxcart
Why so many names? Well.. because I'm so cool, special i.e. narcissistic and have to capture all my complexities - all my various moods and avatars. Oh wait, I must be Vishnu..damn I have to create all 9 avatars - let me work on that. On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Emily Reyn wrote: > ** > > > Ha ha ha. Especially when you have as many names as RaviYogi, RaviBhogi, > "Devi's _", "Kali's _", Ravi Chivukula, etc., etc. > > Dear oxcart49 - please leave us in the dark - the only thing that matters > is the words you put on the page and the intention and personality and > intuitive sense of yourself you communicate despite yourself. Ha ha ha. > > -- > *From:* Ravi Chivukula > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for > Wednesday to oxcart > > > "I am simply oxcart49." > > Boring. Lame. Dumb. You are not interesting enough for me to deliver Kali > Pimp style justice. Sorry pal. > > On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 6:58 PM, oxcart49 wrote: > > ** > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > Here Share does again what she typically does: When she's > > challenged, she avoids responding to the challenge and > > instead attacks the challenger; or she responds with a non > > sequitur. > > > > She apologized subsequently for her nasty comments about > > oxcart not using his real name, apparently not having > > realized how common this is and that there are good reasons > > for it. But the point is her refusal to address criticism > > or challenge. She might as well be Barry; that's how he > > deals with it. > > > > Her whole response here is an attack on oxcart that is > > itself a non sequitur. > > > > What if there are, say, five people who have the same > > criticism of one person and all post about it? Is it > > justifiable to attack them as cowards for "ganging up" > > in voicing that criticism? Or is that just a way of > > ducking the criticism? > > Good point. Sometimes more than one person holds the same opinion. Not too > many here get together offline en masse and plan an organized attack on > anyone. Share however has mentioned that she sometimes has offline "help" > from others. Sometimes "helping" others is simply enabling. > > > > > Also note that oxcart didn't say anything about "courage." > > That was another non sequitur from Share. oxcart's > > criticism had to do with honesty and truth--which are > > nowhere to be found in Share's response. Nor is courage. > > Not revealing one's vital statistics has nothing to do with otherwise > letting everything else "hang out" in a discussion. One can, under some > sort of nom de plume, discuss true, revealing and sometimes controversial > things that are not undermined by the fact you don't know how old, what > ethnicity or gender someone is. Sometimes words are enough - without > pictures, without a biography. I am simply oxcart49. > > By the way, welcome back Judy. Glad the storm didn't wash you out to sea > or toss you to the depths of some dark ocean. I like you right where you > are - on dry land, at the helm of a keyboard. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > > Yes it is just oxcartspeaking and yes, what do you know? What do you > know about honesty and truth given that you don't even use your real name > here? And how much courage does it take to say anything to anyone when one > is hiding behind an unreal name? How much courage does it take to gang up > with several others against someone? In both cases, not much courage at > all. IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: oxcart49 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:28 AM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for > Wednesday to RWC > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > > > > Robin, I am at peace about all that. I hope you are too. I > was explaining to Great Grandfather Richard for whom It's all about not > going down any rabbit holes. Thus he might have missed a crucial part > of our previous exchanges. Wishing you all the best always, Share > > > > > > One day you will hopefully come to understand something about yourself > Share. And it is just oxcart speaking and maybe what do I know? But > watching your interaction between woelflebater and Robin in particular I > see that you side step beautifully and that fan you use to cover your real > face has a smiley face painted on it. But what is behind the paper thin fan > is the real deal and it doesn't resemble the smiley face very much, IMHO. > When you wish someone "all the best always" it doesn't make up for the > really important things like the absence of honesty and truth. > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to oxcart
Ha ha ha. Especially when you have as many names as RaviYogi, RaviBhogi, "Devi's _", "Kali's _", Ravi Chivukula, etc., etc. Dear oxcart49 - please leave us in the dark - the only thing that matters is the words you put on the page and the intention and personality and intuitive sense of yourself you communicate despite yourself. Ha ha ha. From: Ravi Chivukula To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to oxcart "I am simply oxcart49." Boring. Lame. Dumb. You are not interesting enough for me to deliver Kali Pimp style justice. Sorry pal. On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 6:58 PM, oxcart49 wrote: > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: >> >> Here Share does again what she typically does: When she's >> challenged, she avoids responding to the challenge and >> instead attacks the challenger; or she responds with a non >> sequitur. >> >> She apologized subsequently for her nasty comments about >> oxcart not using his real name, apparently not having >> realized how common this is and that there are good reasons >> for it. But the point is her refusal to address criticism >> or challenge. She might as well be Barry; that's how he >> deals with it. >> >> Her whole response here is an attack on oxcart that is >> itself a non sequitur. >> >> What if there are, say, five people who have the same >> criticism of one person and all post about it? Is it >> justifiable to attack them as cowards for "ganging up" >> in voicing that criticism? Or is that just a way of >> ducking the criticism? > > Good point. Sometimes more than one person holds the same opinion. Not too many here get together offline en masse and plan an organized attack on anyone. Share however has mentioned that she sometimes has offline "help" from others. Sometimes "helping" others is simply enabling. > >> >> Also note that oxcart didn't say anything about "courage." >> That was another non sequitur from Share. oxcart's >> criticism had to do with honesty and truth--which are >> nowhere to be found in Share's response. Nor is courage. > > Not revealing one's vital statistics has nothing to do with otherwise letting everything else "hang out" in a discussion. One can, under some sort of nom de plume, discuss true, revealing and sometimes controversial things that are not undermined by the fact you don't know how old, what ethnicity or gender someone is. Sometimes words are enough - without pictures, without a biography. I am simply oxcart49. > >By the way, welcome back Judy. Glad the storm didn't wash you out to sea or >toss you to the depths of some dark ocean. I like you right where you are - on >dry land, at the helm of a keyboard. > >> >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: >> > >> > Yes it is just oxcartspeaking and yes, what do you know? What do you know >> > about honesty and truth given that you don't even use your real name here? >> > And how much courage does it take to say anything to anyone when one is >> > hiding behind an unreal name? How much courage does it take to gang up >> > with several others against someone? In both cases, not much courage at >> > all. IMO. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > From: oxcart49 >> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:28 AM >> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday >> > to RWC >> > >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: >> > > >> > > Robin, I am at peace about all that. I hope you are too. I was >> > > explaining to Great Grandfather Richard for whom It's all about not >> > > going down any rabbit holes. Thus he might have missed a crucial >> > > part of our previous exchanges. Wishing you all the best always, >> > > Share >> > >> > One day you will hopefully come to understand something about yourself >> > Share. And it is just oxcart speaking and maybe what do I know? But >> > watching your interaction between woelflebater and Robin in particular I >> > see that you side step beautifully and that fan you use to cover your real >> > face has a smiley face painted on it. But what is behind the paper thin >> > fan is the real deal and it doesn't resemble the smiley face very much, >> > IMHO. When you wish someone "all the best always" it doesn't make up for >> > the really important things like the absence of honesty and truth. >> > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to oxcart
"I am simply oxcart49." Boring. Lame. Dumb. You are not interesting enough for me to deliver Kali Pimp style justice. Sorry pal. On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 6:58 PM, oxcart49 wrote: > ** > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > Here Share does again what she typically does: When she's > > challenged, she avoids responding to the challenge and > > instead attacks the challenger; or she responds with a non > > sequitur. > > > > She apologized subsequently for her nasty comments about > > oxcart not using his real name, apparently not having > > realized how common this is and that there are good reasons > > for it. But the point is her refusal to address criticism > > or challenge. She might as well be Barry; that's how he > > deals with it. > > > > Her whole response here is an attack on oxcart that is > > itself a non sequitur. > > > > What if there are, say, five people who have the same > > criticism of one person and all post about it? Is it > > justifiable to attack them as cowards for "ganging up" > > in voicing that criticism? Or is that just a way of > > ducking the criticism? > > Good point. Sometimes more than one person holds the same opinion. Not too > many here get together offline en masse and plan an organized attack on > anyone. Share however has mentioned that she sometimes has offline "help" > from others. Sometimes "helping" others is simply enabling. > > > > > Also note that oxcart didn't say anything about "courage." > > That was another non sequitur from Share. oxcart's > > criticism had to do with honesty and truth--which are > > nowhere to be found in Share's response. Nor is courage. > > Not revealing one's vital statistics has nothing to do with otherwise > letting everything else "hang out" in a discussion. One can, under some > sort of nom de plume, discuss true, revealing and sometimes controversial > things that are not undermined by the fact you don't know how old, what > ethnicity or gender someone is. Sometimes words are enough - without > pictures, without a biography. I am simply oxcart49. > > By the way, welcome back Judy. Glad the storm didn't wash you out to sea > or toss you to the depths of some dark ocean. I like you right where you > are - on dry land, at the helm of a keyboard. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > > Yes it is just oxcartspeaking and yes, what do you know? What do you > know about honesty and truth given that you don't even use your real name > here? And how much courage does it take to say anything to anyone when one > is hiding behind an unreal name? How much courage does it take to gang up > with several others against someone? In both cases, not much courage at > all. IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: oxcart49 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:28 AM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for > Wednesday to RWC > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > > > > Robin, I am at peace about all that. I hope you are too. I > was explaining to Great Grandfather Richard for whom It's all about not > going down any rabbit holes. Thus he might have missed a crucial part > of our previous exchanges. Wishing you all the best always, Share > > > > > > One day you will hopefully come to understand something about yourself > Share. And it is just oxcart speaking and maybe what do I know? But > watching your interaction between woelflebater and Robin in particular I > see that you side step beautifully and that fan you use to cover your real > face has a smiley face painted on it. But what is behind the paper thin fan > is the real deal and it doesn't resemble the smiley face very much, IMHO. > When you wish someone "all the best always" it doesn't make up for the > really important things like the absence of honesty and truth. > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to oxcart
Yes it is just oxcartspeaking and yes, what do you know? What do you know about honesty and truth given that you don't even use your real name here? And how much courage does it take to say anything to anyone when one is hiding behind an unreal name? How much courage does it take to gang up with several others against someone? In both cases, not much courage at all. IMO. From: oxcart49 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to RWC --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Robin, I am at peace about all that. I hope you are too. I was explaining > to Great Grandfather Richard for whom It's all about not going down any > rabbit holes. Thus he might have missed a crucial part of our previous > exchanges. Wishing you all the best always, Share One day you will hopefully come to understand something about yourself Share. And it is just oxcart speaking and maybe what do I know? But watching your interaction between woelflebater and Robin in particular I see that you side step beautifully and that fan you use to cover your real face has a smiley face painted on it. But what is behind the paper thin fan is the real deal and it doesn't resemble the smiley face very much, IMHO. When you wish someone "all the best always" it doesn't make up for the really important things like the absence of honesty and truth. > > > > > From: Robin Carlsen > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:53 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to > Ann > > >  > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > Richard, I actually did tell Robin which actions of his I was calling > > psychological rape. His declaring many times with certainty what my > > inner thoughts and feelings were. However, Ann does not name which > > actions or inactions of mine are the basis for her accusations. This is > > the crucial difference between what I did and what she did. I also list > > her words on which I'm basing what I say about her. > Richard, I actually did tell Robin which actions of his I was calling > psychological rape. His declaring many times with certainty what my inner > thoughts and feelings were. However, Ann does not name which actions or > inactions of mine are the basis for her accusations. This is the crucial > difference between what I did and what she did. I also list her words on > which I'm basing what I say about her. > > Rape--psychological or physical--means to invade and violate the integrity, > mentally or physically, of another human being, > > How can there possibly be psychological rape if someone describes the > experience that person is having of the effect of the subjectivity of another > person, an effect which is interfering with the rationality and > intelligibility of the discourse? > > Someone reading another's thoughts and feelings--Isn't that spiritualism, > mind-reading, occultism of some kind? > > How can there be psychological rape if someone describes the effect of the > subjectivity of another person such as to identify how that subjectivity is > systematically depriving the interaction of a minimally desirable level of > objectivity? > > One must presume from Share's testimony that either: 1. Robin did indeed > declare "many times with certainty what [Share's] inner thoughts and feelings > were"--and he was accurate in doing this (making him a mind and heart reader > of sorts) or 2. Robin did indeed declare "many times with certainty what > [Share's] inner thoughts and feelings were"-and he was inaccurate in doing > this (making him simply irrelevant to the inner world of Share). > > One would want to ask in terms of this alleged accusation (which Robin > denies) whether Share did in fact experience that her thoughts and feelings > were being accurately described--for in that case science would have no > business mapping the brain to discover the physiological correlates of > certain states of feeling and thinking; or whether Share experienced (in > thinking Robin was trying to read her thoughts and feelings) that her > thoughts and feelings were not being accurately described. > > If Robin (according to Share) did not describe Share's feelings and thoughts > accurately, then how can there be any invasion or violation of Share? And if > (according to Share) he did describe Share's feelings and thoughts > accurately, what is that but a simple scientific observation? > > Share suddenly escalated the entire interaction (as she just did yesterday > with AWB) to a level of hysteria and extremism which entirely altered the > context of the conversation, and by doing so she recreated reality in such an > unexpected
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to Ann
Barry, the angels on my shoulder are telling me you are exhibiting some "castration anxiety" here. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > Nothing can provide a better excuse to avoid having one's > bubble popped by the wielder of an annoying pin than FFLife > Message View. Again with the violent penis envy metaphors. What IS it about the women on this forum? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to RWC
Robin, I am at peace about all that. I hope you are too. I was explaining to Great Grandfather Richard for whom It's all about not going down any rabbit holes. Thus he might have missed a crucial part of our previous exchanges. Wishing you all the best always, Share From: Robin Carlsen To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to Ann --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Richard, I actually did tell Robin which actions of his I was calling > psychological rape. His declaring many times with certainty what my inner > thoughts and feelings were. However, Ann does not name which actions or > inactions of mine are the basis for her accusations. This is the crucial > difference between what I did and what she did. I also list her words on > which I'm basing what I say about her. Richard, I actually did tell Robin which actions of his I was calling psychological rape. His declaring many times with certainty what my inner thoughts and feelings were. However, Ann does not name which actions or inactions of mine are the basis for her accusations. This is the crucial difference between what I did and what she did. I also list her words on which I'm basing what I say about her. Rape--psychological or physical--means to invade and violate the integrity, mentally or physically, of another human being, How can there possibly be psychological rape if someone describes the experience that person is having of the effect of the subjectivity of another person, an effect which is interfering with the rationality and intelligibility of the discourse? Someone reading another's thoughts and feelings--Isn't that spiritualism, mind-reading, occultism of some kind? How can there be psychological rape if someone describes the effect of the subjectivity of another person such as to identify how that subjectivity is systematically depriving the interaction of a minimally desirable level of objectivity? One must presume from Share's testimony that either: 1. Robin did indeed declare "many times with certainty what [Share's] inner thoughts and feelings were"--and he was accurate in doing this (making him a mind and heart reader of sorts) or 2. Robin did indeed declare "many times with certainty what [Share's] inner thoughts and feelings were"-and he was inaccurate in doing this (making him simply irrelevant to the inner world of Share). One would want to ask in terms of this alleged accusation (which Robin denies) whether Share did in fact experience that her thoughts and feelings were being accurately described--for in that case science would have no business mapping the brain to discover the physiological correlates of certain states of feeling and thinking; or whether Share experienced (in thinking Robin was trying to read her thoughts and feelings) that her thoughts and feelings were not being accurately described. If Robin (according to Share) did not describe Share's feelings and thoughts accurately, then how can there be any invasion or violation of Share? And if (according to Share) he did describe Share's feelings and thoughts accurately, what is that but a simple scientific observation? Share suddenly escalated the entire interaction (as she just did yesterday with AWB) to a level of hysteria and extremism which entirely altered the context of the conversation, and by doing so she recreated reality in such an unexpected way that it took me several weeks to figure out WTF was even happening. I was confused and disoriented--as I tried conscientiously to understand what Share was doing. The hair-trigger subjectivity of Share destroys any semblance of intellectual order and psychological coherence. The charge of psychological rape was absurd and meaningless. Any attempts by anyone to describe how the subjectivity of a person is influencing their apprehension of reality--it is like anything else: either it is true or it is false. For instance, here in this post: If someone were to point out to me how my own first person perspective was dictating the analysis I was making, I have a simple way of responding to this: Does this interpretation obtain here according to my understanding of what is being said to me? or does this interpretation not obtain here according to my understanding of what is being said to me? If someone on FFL were to try to point out how some specific tendency or inclination or bias of my first person ontology was determining my point of view about Share WHY I WOULD FIND THAT FASCINATING AND MEANINGFUL IN THE EXTREME. I would have to assess the extent to which what was being said to me appeared to contain more objectivity than my own judgment of its application to me--but if someone were able to show to me that my own subjectivity in some way was--presumably
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to Ann
Richard, I actually did tell Robin which actions of his I was calling psychological rape. His declaring many times with certainty what my inner thoughts and feelings were. However, Ann does not name which actions or inactions of mine are the basis for her accusations. This is the crucial difference between what I did and what she did. I also list her words on which I'm basing what I say about her. Ok, enough of that particular rabbit hole (-: From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday to Ann > > Ann, numbered below are excerpts showing the vile > > accusations about my character you make... > > awoelflebater: > The tone of this post to me is very reminiscent of your > responses to Robin when you felt you had been so "raped" > by him in some way... > Well, I think it's time to stop all the 'mind-rape' on FFL; trying to take Share down the Rabbit Hole. What business is it to some anonymous posters that want to change what we believe in? When are they going to send in the thought police? How dare these people have something to believe! This is just getting outrageous! Next thing you know, they'll be taking away our posting privilages on Yahoo! Groups for asking 'What did he know, and when did he know it?'. 'Christians persecuted throughout the world' http://tinyurl.com/8vkorn8
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Ann, you are an extraordinary writer and communicator and this was very moving to read. Raunchy, thank you for being here and being such a strong and beautiful soul. From: awoelflebater To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > Well, Buck, you're entitled to your opinion and in my > > > opinion the contract I made with Maharishi out of love > > > and respect for his great gift to humanity is still valid. > > > > Ahem. You're entitled to your opinion (however erroneous > > it may be) as to what constitutes a "gift." As someone > > reported here not long ago, the TM movement *in India > > alone* is worth about $1,114,380,000.00 US Dollars. > > > > There has not been a *moment* that I know of since the > > beginning of the TM movement in which this "gift" has > > ever been one; it's been a profit-making enterprise > > since Day One. > > > > If you feel the need to honor a "contract" that was never > > worth the paper it was printed on (meaning that it was > > never a legal agreement to start with) with a businessman > > intent on making money by charging as much as he possibly > > could for mantras he ripped off from traditional Indian > > teachings, that's your right. > > > > If you're further willing to give up your right to read > > what you want, study what you want, see the spiritual > > teachers you want to see, etc., and instead just do what > > you were told to do and believe what you were told to > > believe by this same businessman, that also is your > > right. > > > > Just don't expect too many of us to have any respect > > for you still being this gullible this many years later. > > > > I opened my heart to loving Maharishi because his gift of TM uplifts the > consciousness of the world. Even Buck who thinks Maharishi is a skunk > believes this. I respect Maharishi's tireless dedication to bringing TM to > thousands of people who now enjoy a more fulfilling life. It's a gift that > keeps on giving. My love for Maharishi is born of hope for a better world. > Respect from hateful cynics like you, Barry, is at the bottom of my list of > Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I do not have a strong opinion of this matter either way. I meditated as a young person until I was an older person. Attended MIU from where I graduated in 1980. I had an entire family who meditated, two of my sisters were initiators but I never once felt the inkling to join them. I respected the technique and took it seriously. But in time, due to a number of factors, it fell away for me and although occasionally I choose to say my mantra I do not feel strongly either negatively or positively about the practice or Maharishi. I did not invest myself in him personally like you Raunchy or Barry or Robin or Buck or many others. So, while I read about how the people who are the enforcers in the Movement are what I would call dogmatic, power hungry, delusional and downright bullies my life is not intertwined with this and so although I react with indignation because this bothers me, it is not my world. On the subject of loyalty to and love for Maharishi, that appears to be a very personal and precious thing for Raunchy and, I am sure, for many others. Even if the Movement and the practice is not all it was cracked up to be the reality remains, for Raunchy, that she loves MMY and she feels like it is the right thing (in fact could probably not feel any other way, but she will correct me if I am wrong here) to remain steadfast in her promise and her devotion to him. Even if Maharishi is what Buck claims he was, a money-grabbing lecherous greedy man that does not change, for those who were touched in a very deep place by him, the reality of their personal, heart-felt relationship with him and it will never change. I believe that one's devotion to something less than perfect can purify things, can make them clean and can effect what may be suspect and make it, somehow, beautiful, keep it true. In some way the devotee can purge the imperfect with the perfection of their love and loyalty. So the devotee is unscathed even while the subject of their devotion may be corrupt. I am speaking not necessarily of Maharishi or TM here but in what I believe could apply to any number of situations. I respect utterly Raunchy's loyalty and trueness of heart here. Only she can understand and feel what motivates her and I am pretty sure it makes her the beautiful person she is just as the incredible human she is allows her to feel what she does. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Thank you Richard. Except that you're doing what BW was doing! Suggesting that mental harm is the same as physical torture and death which is what the Inquisition is most associated with by most people. BTW, I usually find BW's negativity easier to handle than that of some other posters who I find less straight forward and more obfuscating. I'm sure this is due to my own issues, limitations, etc. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > No, in actuality your comment says a lot about > > your ignorance of the Inquisition and how it > > worked... > > Share Long: > You are not surprised probably because you have > a prejudice about me... > What you fail to understand is that Barry IS the equivalent of the FFL 'Inquisition". He's an expert in brainwashing techniques. Don't you get it? 'Down the Rabbit Hole' - don't feed it, Share. > According to another Inquisition expert, between 1 > and 10 million people were killed during that time. > 10,000 girls, many under the age of 10, were killed > in Germany alone. See 2nd paragraph of url > provided. > > > http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/articles.php?PageURL=Inquisition.htm > ,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Well ok, let's look at it - do you hold the sidhas and governors responsible for not being dedicated enough, or do you want to look at the more esoteric side of things? What I mean is that in my opinion, the base energy with which someone creates anything will eventually flow to the farthest reaches of the creation. I think this is true whether the creation is a book, a piece of music, a building or a movement. It is in my mind to say that the basic energy with which Maharishi created the Movement has always shown itself in the behavior and actions of the Movement and in its many failures. I mean, come on, 60 years and no one levitates? No world peace? No really really really demonstrable evidence of the Maharishi Effect? And the very fact that basic goals are never achieved, such as having consistent high numbers in the Domes and elsewhere? It is simply the real energy with which Maharishi created or at least with which he began to run the Movement which was "I've got a good technique and the knowledge behind it, lemme use it to get money, praise and pussy." I know many of you will argue that isn't true but I think that's the deal. From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > We had 2,000 in the domes morning and evening during April 1986. An average > of 2,100 in the mornings and 2,300 in the evenings. We dubbed it "miracle > month." The result? The US bombed Libya, an act of international terrorism > that killed over 60 people (April 15, 1986). > Yes, "Unfathomable is the course of action.." But manifestly that was a step in the relative on the way to finding that nut Gaddafi. We've had 29,000 governors out there in this hemisphere and a lot more citizen sidhas and the TM.org now can't git better than a few hundred to come meditate. Back when the Invincible America course was begun around the time frame of the Lebanon civil war of the summer of 2006 at that time we got around 2,000 who rallied out of the old faded woodwork to come out to meditate doing that flying sutra and they were mostly us white-bread northern people meditators. That was prior to the pundit boys who were hired subsequently to supplement our truly anemic meditation numbers. This going on while at the same time elements are working at throwing old meditators out. Our long collective history of the meditator numbers here is in the long history of the ongoing administrative purgings using their guidelines. The guidelines and the people who advocate them obviusly are not facilitating the Domes. Our numbers are just fruitless without reconciling this. The out-of-pocket cost borne by a few rich donors has been inverting the curve of attendance through the out-sourcing infusion of Indian boys propping up and hiding our miserable numbers. Everyone should be concerned why the meditaing numbers are so bad. -Buck in the Dome > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > > > > > > Â Only 2000 Meditators in Fairfield will bring security to America > > > and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. > > > > > > It blows my mind that you actually believe this. Â This will never > > > happen. Â If the TMO consolidated all their assets/funds/influence in > > > manifesting this one goal and made this the single most important > > > priority of the organization and all it's followers and for TM-doers, I > > > cannot believe they couldn't make it happen. Â If they did, and the goal > > > was not achieved, what then? Â Do the numbers have to be documented in > > > Fairfield only? Â It seems you believe that collective meditation at > > > specified times wherever one is also will have impact (i.e. the recent > > > call to meditate wherever one is at certain times to influence the > > > election). Â Why 2,000 in Fairfield? Â What if it were 2,000 in another > > > location? Â What if it were 1,999? Â How long would the meditation have > > > to go on before the goal was realized? Â Is TM the only meditation > > > technique that could collectively be used to accomplish this goal? > > > > > > > Forgive Buck's hyperbole in the use of the word "only"...it's a bit off > > putting. People can pray or stand on their heads for world peace as far as > > I'm concerned. Intention is everything. Suffice to say, that people > > meditating in the domes is a powerful and effective way to create coherence > > in collective consciousness. So it follows that the greater the number of > > people meditating the greater the influence in creating world peace or > > whirled peas...whatever. > > > > > > > > From: Buck > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
I did think of a flying appendage chasing after a flying powdered sugar donut - that's a heck of a visual. Pretty funny in the abstract. I may pass it by a male friend of mine and see what he thinks of such an exclamation. Tee hee, I'll leave off here. From: awoelflebater To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > >  What would you have done if one of the companies youworked for had > made your job conditional upon you > thinking only the "right" things and doing only the > things that *they* deemed "right" or "correct" or > proper in your private life. Chances are you would have > told them to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. > > I actually don't think that corporate america can be compared as an analogous > situation with following a guru or movement.  The first, in theory, doesn't > judge one's personal life, just one's work product and > presentation/appearance.  The second is a way of life and personal by > nature.  I brought up a few similarities re: tactics, as strong-arm tactics > are also employed in corporate america to get one to "tow the line."  In my > case, I was faced directly with things like billing fraud and incompetence at > levels that endangered the process I was engaged in and "responsible for", > thus I was forced to take a stand over and over, which was a bitch, in order > to maintain my integrity and meet my responsibilities.  I don't know why I > was confronted with these situations.  I couldn't walk away.  > > I have been trying to get a visual on "taking a flying fuck at a rolling > donut" - haven't succeeded so will have to give up on that.  Maybe you have to be a man with some sort of appendage that could fit through a donut hole. Thankfully neither you or I fit this description, Emily. > > > > > From: turquoiseb > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:20 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > >  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > > > > > "I happen to agree that people should practice > > > Maharishi's meditation techniques in Maharishi's dome > > > or get booted out." > > > > I don't disagree with this. Mjackson's issue wasn't this > > however and I can't imagine this was Buck's issue either, > > but I don't know. I think I am curious as to the thought > > process - do you weigh the "larger good or ideals" (e.g., > > coherence as a small example) against behaviors or tactics > > or methods of reprimand and punishment that may not sit > > well with your conscience? > > The very IDEA of people feeling as if they have the > right to control the behavior or thoughts of other > people is insane, and an indication of a spiritual > movement that has GONE insane. > > The very people who grant David Lynch the right to > portray literally the torture and degradation of women > in his movies and then praise him for being a true- > blue TMer want to stop others from exercising *their* > rights to see whatever spiritual teachers they want > to, and to think whatever *they* want to. > > The "dome policy" is rank hypocrisy at its best, and > outright emulation of the mindset of the Inquisition > at its worst. NO ONE IN TM HISTORY, teacher or not, > was ever told outright that they would never again > have the right to read books by other spiritual teachers > (people have been thrown out of the organization and > denied access to courses for this) or go to visit them. > Any claims of supporting this policy out of concern for > the "purity of the teaching" or out of loyalty to > Maharishi is simply an example of being pussywhipped > by a bullying guru. > > What would you have done if one of the companies you > worked for had made your job conditional upon you > thinking only the "right" things and doing only the > things that *they* deemed "right" or "correct" or > proper in your private life. Chances are you would have > told them to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. > > But hundreds of TB TMers do this every day so that > they can be "allowed" to be part of something they've > been trained over the years to be terrified of *NOT* > being able to be part of any longer. > > The issue of "people doing other techniques in the > domes" is 1) a non-issue, because as far as I've heard > it never happened, and 2) it's a way to undercut the very > claims of the TM organization. If TM and the TM-siddhis > are so "all-powerful," and able to change the weather > and end crime and bring about world peace, you want us > to believe that at the same time these techniques are > so WEAK and WUSSY that they could be derailed or > rendered ineffective by one or two people thinkin
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Only 2000 Meditators in Fairfield will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. It blows my mind that you actually believe this. This will never happen. If the TMO consolidated all their assets/funds/influence in manifesting this one goal and made this the single most important priority of the organization and all it's followers and for TM-doers, I cannot believe they couldn't make it happen. If they did, and the goal was not achieved, what then? Do the numbers have to be documented in Fairfield only? It seems you believe that collective meditation at specified times wherever one is also will have impact (i.e. the recent call to meditate wherever one is at certain times to influence the election). Why 2,000 in Fairfield? What if it were 2,000 in another location? What if it were 1,999? How long would the meditation have to go on before the goal was realized? Is TM the only meditation technique that could collectively be used to accomplish this goal? From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday The immediate urgent priority for national and world peace is to join the Invincible America Assembly at MUM. Only 2000 Meditators in Fairfield will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. Yours in Peace and Reconciliation, -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
What would you have done if one of the companies youworked for had made your job conditional upon you thinking only the "right" things and doing only the things that *they* deemed "right" or "correct" or proper in your private life. Chances are you would have told them to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. I actually don't think that corporate america can be compared as an analogous situation with following a guru or movement. The first, in theory, doesn't judge one's personal life, just one's work product and presentation/appearance. The second is a way of life and personal by nature. I brought up a few similarities re: tactics, as strong-arm tactics are also employed in corporate america to get one to "tow the line." In my case, I was faced directly with things like billing fraud and incompetence at levels that endangered the process I was engaged in and "responsible for", thus I was forced to take a stand over and over, which was a bitch, in order to maintain my integrity and meet my responsibilities. I don't know why I was confronted with these situations. I couldn't walk away. I have been trying to get a visual on "taking a flying fuck at a rolling donut" - haven't succeeded so will have to give up on that. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > > > "I happen to agree that people should practice > > Maharishi's meditation techniques in Maharishi's dome > > or get booted out." > > I don't disagree with this. Mjackson's issue wasn't this > however and I can't imagine this was Buck's issue either, > but I don't know. I think I am curious as to the thought > process - do you weigh the "larger good or ideals" (e.g., > coherence as a small example) against behaviors or tactics > or methods of reprimand and punishment that may not sit > well with your conscience? The very IDEA of people feeling as if they have the right to control the behavior or thoughts of other people is insane, and an indication of a spiritual movement that has GONE insane. The very people who grant David Lynch the right to portray literally the torture and degradation of women in his movies and then praise him for being a true- blue TMer want to stop others from exercising *their* rights to see whatever spiritual teachers they want to, and to think whatever *they* want to. The "dome policy" is rank hypocrisy at its best, and outright emulation of the mindset of the Inquisition at its worst. NO ONE IN TM HISTORY, teacher or not, was ever told outright that they would never again have the right to read books by other spiritual teachers (people have been thrown out of the organization and denied access to courses for this) or go to visit them. Any claims of supporting this policy out of concern for the "purity of the teaching" or out of loyalty to Maharishi is simply an example of being pussywhipped by a bullying guru. What would you have done if one of the companies you worked for had made your job conditional upon you thinking only the "right" things and doing only the things that *they* deemed "right" or "correct" or proper in your private life. Chances are you would have told them to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. But hundreds of TB TMers do this every day so that they can be "allowed" to be part of something they've been trained over the years to be terrified of *NOT* being able to be part of any longer. The issue of "people doing other techniques in the domes" is 1) a non-issue, because as far as I've heard it never happened, and 2) it's a way to undercut the very claims of the TM organization. If TM and the TM-siddhis are so "all-powerful," and able to change the weather and end crime and bring about world peace, you want us to believe that at the same time these techniques are so WEAK and WUSSY that they could be derailed or rendered ineffective by one or two people thinking the "wrong" mantra? These policies have nothing whatsoever to do with anything but mind control. And the people defending them are doing so because they have allowed their minds to be controlled for years or decades, and now the only way they can think of to justify that spine- lessness on their part is to try to impose a similar capitulation to bully policies on others. The bottom line, as everyone in Fairfield knows, is that if the "dome policies" were to be enforced completely, NO ONE WOULD BE IN THE DOMES. Most of the people there are LYING about their activities, and all of the people "allowing" them to be there KNOW that they are lying. The entire mindset of the TMO is thus to *encourage* lying and hypocrisy, as a way of life.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
You are not surprised probably because you have a prejudice about me. According to another Inquisition expert, between 1 and 10 million people were killed during that time. 10,000 girls, many under the age of 10, were killed in Germany alone. See 2nd paragraph of url provided. http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/articles.php?PageURL=Inquisition.htm However, I am neither relying on nor referring to anyone's alleged ignorance about the Inquisition which we now see might not be ignorant at all. I have been referring to the association of physical torture and horrible death that MOST people have about the Inquisition. BTW, thank you feste for clarifying that similar comparisons and arguments have been used before. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > I have heard that more people DIED as a result of the > Inquisition, which I would never call Holy, than died > in the Holocaust. Not true. > And that most of these people were women, midwives, > women who had knowledge of and skill with healing herbs. > They were accused of being witches, enemies of the > Catholic Church. Also not true. Most of the cases of witch hysteria were among the general priesthood or among lay leaders of towns, not promulgated by the Inquisition. And in fact there were more persecutions of so-called witches among Protestants than among Catholics. > I acknowledge that you probably know more about it than > I do. And that an atmosphere of terror was undoubtedly > created by both the public and private activities of > the Inquisition. > > However, regardless of the level of one's formal > knowledge of the Inquisition, MOST people associate it > with PHYSICAL torture and horrible PHYSICAL deaths. > This is why I called you on making the comparison that > you did and offered a compassionate reason as to why > you made it. So you reserve the right to rely on your ignorance and on "most people's" ignorance rather than the facts. Why am I not surprised? > > From: turquoiseb > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:01 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > > Â > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > Your comparing mindset of TMO to the Inquisition which > > included physical torture and killing says more about > > the truth of your extreme and unresolved feelings about > > the TMO than it does about the truth of the TMO. > > No, in actuality your comment says a lot about your > ignorance of the Inquisition and how it worked. I'm > somewhat of a scholar on this subject, having studied > it for many years. > > Very *few* of the activities of the Holy Inquisition > involved physical torture or murder. What they specialized > in was *mental torture* and the use of psychology to create > an atmosphere of fear in the people. The purpose of the > torture, when it occurred, was NOT to get people to "confess." > They were already guilty the moment they were called before > the Inquisition. The purpose of torturing them or getting > them to "confess their sins" was to create an effect *in > the people watching from the sidelines*. This is written > about in some depth by the Inquisitors in the manuals they > wrote for training purposes. > > In other words, they wanted the people they brought to > trial to rat on other people, to create an atmosphere > of fear in those other people, and proactively keep them > in line. They also wanted the ones they tried to serve as > examples of "what's going to happen to you" if you don't > toe the line. > > I would submit that the TMO's policies are *very much* > designed to do exactly the same things. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
I have heard that more people DIED as a result of the Inquisition, which I would never call Holy, than died in the Holocaust. And that most of these people were women, midwives, women who had knowledge of and skill with healing herbs. They were accused of being witches, enemies of the Catholic Church. What they really were was a threat to the absolute authority of the Church and the rigidly hierarchical and oppressive structure of society. I acknowledge that you probably know more about it than I do. And that an atmosphere of terror was undoubtedly created by both the public and private activities of the Inquisition. However, regardless of the level of one's formal knowledge of the Inquisition, MOST people associate it with PHYSICAL torture and horrible PHYSICAL deaths. This is why I called you on making the comparison that you did and offered a compassionate reason as to why you made it. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 7:01 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Your comparing mindset of TMO to the Inquisition which > included physical torture and killing says more about > the truth of your extreme and unresolved feelings about > the TMO than it does about the truth of the TMO. No, in actuality your comment says a lot about your ignorance of the Inquisition and how it worked. I'm somewhat of a scholar on this subject, having studied it for many years. Very *few* of the activities of the Holy Inquisition involved physical torture or murder. What they specialized in was *mental torture* and the use of psychology to create an atmosphere of fear in the people. The purpose of the torture, when it occurred, was NOT to get people to "confess." They were already guilty the moment they were called before the Inquisition. The purpose of torturing them or getting them to "confess their sins" was to create an effect *in the people watching from the sidelines*. This is written about in some depth by the Inquisitors in the manuals they wrote for training purposes. In other words, they wanted the people they brought to trial to rat on other people, to create an atmosphere of fear in those other people, and proactively keep them in line. They also wanted the ones they tried to serve as examples of "what's going to happen to you" if you don't toe the line. I would submit that the TMO's policies are *very much* designed to do exactly the same things.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Everybody here is passionately standing up for what they believe is right. And I admire that. Also I feel for Michael J. and others who have had confrontations, etc. more painful than the ones I had. But speaking practically, what is to be done about those long ago incidents now? For me, paradoxically enough, the answer is to meditate in the Dome thus helping Michael J. and even the TMO to heal and grow more quickly and thoroughly. Have I been brainwashed? Well, I was in FF but out of the Dome for 7 years from 2003 to 2010 and had almost zero contact with campus and the TMO during that time. What was happening with my allegedly washed brain during those years?! How did it allow me to veer off the path so much?! I understand being shocked and or disappointed by an imperfect organization that is nonetheless attempting to perfect the world. For whatever combination of life experience and karma, I have chosen not to throw out the baby, doing TM sidhis in a group, with the bath water. And I recognize that the choices that others have made are equally valid and good for them. From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:50 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > Your comparing mindset of TMO to the Inquisition which > > included physical torture and killing says more about > > the truth of your extreme and unresolved feelings about > > the TMO than it does about the truth of the TMO. > > No, in actuality your comment says a lot about your > ignorance of the Inquisition and how it worked. I'm > somewhat of a scholar on this subject, having studied > it for many years. > > Very *few* of the activities of the Holy Inquisition > involved physical torture or murder. What they specialized > in was *mental torture* and the use of psychology to create > an atmosphere of fear in the people. The purpose of the > torture, when it occurred, was NOT to get people to "confess." > They were already guilty the moment they were called before > the Inquisition. The purpose of torturing them or getting > them to "confess their sins" was to create an effect *in > the people watching from the sidelines*. This is written > about in some depth by the Inquisitors in the manuals they > wrote for training purposes. > > In other words, they wanted the people they brought to > trial to rat on other people, to create an atmosphere > of fear in those other people, and proactively keep them > in line. They also wanted the ones they tried to serve as > examples of "what's going to happen to you" if you don't > toe the line. > > I would submit that the TMO's policies are *very much* > designed to do exactly the same things. When the TMO set up its first village in the UK people naturally started hanging out together and going on walks etc. I know someone who was asked to report back to the directors what sort of things people were talking about. Most inquisitive, very cultish and shocking (to me at least). Maybe people's surprise at this depends on how much they believed that you don't have to change your beliefs when you learn TM. If, like me, you stay pretty much true to your questing yet sceptical principles then anyone checking up on what you think about *anything* is a massive affront. The crap people put up with just to avoid being banned from the dome or from courses amazes me as this sort of controlling behaviour isn't really what I expected from a "coherent" group, the rise in positivity is supposed to be spontaneous people!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Your comparing mindset of TMO to the Inquisition which included physical torture and killing says more about the truth of your extreme and unresolved feelings about the TMO than it does about the truth of the TMO. Yesterday I happened to see Buck at the health food store and introduced myself. We chatted for about an hour. IMO he is not a hypocrite nor a liar about his activities. Nor is he at all ruled by fear. Neither am I any of these. If there are two such Dome goers, logic says there must be more. The TMO, like EVERYONE and everything on the is planet is imperfect. Or did I miss the moment, BW, when you became perfect? When you stopped being a bully? When you stopped degrading women? From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote: > > > "I happen to agree that people should practice > > Maharishi's meditation techniques in Maharishi's dome > > or get booted out." > > I don't disagree with this. Mjackson's issue wasn't this > however and I can't imagine this was Buck's issue either, > but I don't know. I think I am curious as to the thought > process - do you weigh the "larger good or ideals" (e.g., > coherence as a small example) against behaviors or tactics > or methods of reprimand and punishment that may not sit > well with your conscience? The very IDEA of people feeling as if they have the right to control the behavior or thoughts of other people is insane, and an indication of a spiritual movement that has GONE insane. The very people who grant David Lynch the right to portray literally the torture and degradation of women in his movies and then praise him for being a true- blue TMer want to stop others from exercising *their* rights to see whatever spiritual teachers they want to, and to think whatever *they* want to. The "dome policy" is rank hypocrisy at its best, and outright emulation of the mindset of the Inquisition at its worst. NO ONE IN TM HISTORY, teacher or not, was ever told outright that they would never again have the right to read books by other spiritual teachers (people have been thrown out of the organization and denied access to courses for this) or go to visit them. Any claims of supporting this policy out of concern for the "purity of the teaching" or out of loyalty to Maharishi is simply an example of being pussywhipped by a bullying guru. What would you have done if one of the companies you worked for had made your job conditional upon you thinking only the "right" things and doing only the things that *they* deemed "right" or "correct" or proper in your private life. Chances are you would have told them to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. But hundreds of TB TMers do this every day so that they can be "allowed" to be part of something they've been trained over the years to be terrified of *NOT* being able to be part of any longer. The issue of "people doing other techniques in the domes" is 1) a non-issue, because as far as I've heard it never happened, and 2) it's a way to undercut the very claims of the TM organization. If TM and the TM-siddhis are so "all-powerful," and able to change the weather and end crime and bring about world peace, you want us to believe that at the same time these techniques are so WEAK and WUSSY that they could be derailed or rendered ineffective by one or two people thinking the "wrong" mantra? These policies have nothing whatsoever to do with anything but mind control. And the people defending them are doing so because they have allowed their minds to be controlled for years or decades, and now the only way they can think of to justify that spine- lessness on their part is to try to impose a similar capitulation to bully policies on others. The bottom line, as everyone in Fairfield knows, is that if the "dome policies" were to be enforced completely, NO ONE WOULD BE IN THE DOMES. Most of the people there are LYING about their activities, and all of the people "allowing" them to be there KNOW that they are lying. The entire mindset of the TMO is thus to *encourage* lying and hypocrisy, as a way of life.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
In this instance, I doubt not only the benevolence but even the neutrality of your motive in asking me a question because of my EXPERIENCE of how you commented on my answer to your question about gazing. Even in the post immediately below, you use one of your standard tactics. I used the word EXPERIENCE and you use the word imagine, two words that have opposite meanings. Actually you are doing what you accused me of in the gazing discussion: you are being indirect in your hostility. More than this, here you are indirectly misrepresenting what I said just as you did in the gazing discussion. In that instance your left out something essential that I said, about gazing being too top down. With two words here, imagine and later fantasized, you misrepresent what I said. This is my extended answer to your question about my taking the FFL heat. The short answer is yes. PS I enjoyed your funny post about Obama and Romney debating classical Indian music and your post quoting Maharishi on love. From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 7:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Based on my previous experience answering a question of yours, > I think you are more than JUST curious, more than JUST desiring > to investigate and learn. You are free to imagine whatever you like, Share. > Nonetheless in this instance, I gave you the benefit of the > doubt and asked you what you mean by JUST curious. I'm > putting JUST in all caps because you seem to have missed it > in my comment and question. > > BTW, if YOU don't want to answer MY question, YOU can also > say so. And that would also be an answer of a sort. Well, I did answer it, of course. By "JUST curious," I meant JUST what the dictionary defines as curious. That you may have fantasized some other answer to your question than the one I gave does not mean I didn't answer it. I'm still JUST curious about your answer to my question: Are you confident that you've done a good job "dealing with heat" on FFL, Share? > > From: authfriend > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:34 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > >  > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > Ah, Judy your saying just curious is like Obama and Romney > > saying they did the debates to provide entertaining TV. IMO > > What do you mean by just curious? > > "Curious" means "marked by desire to investigate and learn," > according to my dictionary. > > If you'd prefer not to answer my question, just say so. That > would also be an answer, of a sort. > > > From: authfriend > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sharelong60" wrote: > > > > Share: I've dealt with heat before and I was much younger then. > > > Plus now I have all this practice dealing with heat on FFL! > > > > Are you confident that you've done a good job "dealing with > > heat" on FFL, Share? > > > > Just curious. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
(Long drawn out sigh) And just when I was starting to have nice things to say. David Lynch is ironically the perfect poster boy for the Movement and I find his foundation to be as egregious as the TMO itself - if anyone cares for me to elaborate I will. From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Although there are friends who used to do TM who don't anymore and > > still live in Fairfield - those are the ones I really don't > > understand. > > I take it you haven't been here in a long time, because FF has blossomed into > a very cool community that has a lot more to offer than just a place to do > group meditation. Low crime. Low cost of living. Unbelievable access to > broadband Internet (c'mon, how many small towns have 100 mbps fiber optic to > the home?) A remarkably rich cultural life. And, best of all, a community > spirit where people join together to do good things in the community, like > upgrading the community indoor pool's filtration, a community supported > low-power FM station, a convention center, and the soon to be Quiet Zone (no > more train whistles through town). Just today, it was announced that the > community is going to form a non-profit to upgrade and reopen the recently > closed movie theater. Fairfield rocks! > The thing that really makes this place a special place to live is our millennialism in fact. Yeah, it is real nice knowing that you're part of something actually bringing good too like the science shows is spiritually going on here in Fairfield. I mean just imagine all the living out in the world that is without purpose, the over copulating and consuming stuff. Like, all who would just be living lives of quiet desperation even just in Leiden for instance. I feel sorry for all the people out there who are without knowing they are doing good in something Larger. If you can't be with us here in Fairfield, Iowa then at least support the David Lynch Foundation with a generous gift of your hard earned money. Do something good. http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/ -Buck in the Dome
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
100 mbps fiber optics - that is cool - I appreciate you telling me this - the folks I know there just say they like it - it does sound like a fine place to live From: Alex Stanley To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 7:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Although there are friends who used to do TM who don't anymore and > still live in Fairfield - those are the ones I really don't > understand. I take it you haven't been here in a long time, because FF has blossomed into a very cool community that has a lot more to offer than just a place to do group meditation. Low crime. Low cost of living. Unbelievable access to broadband Internet (c'mon, how many small towns have 100 mbps fiber optic to the home?) A remarkably rich cultural life. And, best of all, a community spirit where people join together to do good things in the community, like upgrading the community indoor pool's filtration, a community supported low-power FM station, a convention center, and the soon to be Quiet Zone (no more train whistles through town). Just today, it was announced that the community is going to form a non-profit to upgrade and reopen the recently closed movie theater. Fairfield fucking rocks!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
You know Buck it may surprise you since I have posted so much stuff on here critical of Maharishi and the Movement, but I do understand how you feel. I was pretty much the same way in the first couple years I meditated in a little South Carolina town one of about maybe 3 other people who did TM there. It wasn't until I decided I wanted more and began to go on longer courses in Atlanta and Livingston Manor and then MIU that I got a taste of what I didn't like and even after I left MIU and went back east, I still wanted to go on courses and round - it was in that time that I discovered that subjectively at least other meditation techniques were just as fulfilling as TM. It was also the stuff that happened at Heavenly Mountain in Boone, NC that led me to not want to support the TMO anymore with time, effort energy money or consciousness. I still today say that if TM does it for you, why not? Although there are friends who used to do TM who don't anymore and still live in Fairfield - those are the ones I really don't understand. From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:37 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, khazana108 wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > > > Yes, one would hope if you were interested in meditating with the large > > > group that they would issue you a badge. That in itself is still a > > > problem to surmount just coming in. I spoke with someone yesterday in > > > line waiting for coffee, an old meditator here who just re-applied and > > > still waiting to get a Dome badge and was appalled at the dossier that > > > was compiled and questioning by the course office of private information > > > they had gathered about concerts gone to and saints visited. Was really > > > creep-ed out by the interview. However the air quality in the Domes is > > > a lot better than before. They have been working at that. I am told tha > > > smaller rooms around like out in Maharishi Vedic City have real nice air > > > quality. I do notice the formaldehyde taint is not as great in some > > > places around the dome depending on the flow of fresh air mix by the air > > > handling system. Overall it is noticeably better. > > > > > > > The TMO collects information on you? > > They definitely do this. The national course offices know exactly which TM > teacher went to another organization or has been with another saint and so > on. Basically according to all criteria they have for giving admission to > courses, they will collect information. On that depends if you will get a > batch or admission to any kind of course. > > > Why do you want to even > > be in the dome if this is the sort of treatment you get in > > a so called "coherent" atmosphere. Don't you think it's gone > > wrong, the AofE course office shouldn't be like the east German > > Stazi should it? Maybe you want to amend your unified field > > poems a bit. Salya, I recently sat talking with a group of scholarly academics who long study these particular things and a person who was a survivor of Jonestown comparing notes. After hearing the description of how things are in the Fairfield meditating community the Jonestown survivor kind of blurted out your same question with a similar exasperation, "why do you stay?". I live here. That is the simple answer. That I like my experience of meditation, I like my experience of meditating in a large group of meditators, and I have a community of friends likewise here. I only look to the TM.org to facilitate the group meditation. I do stay interested in the welfare of how they are doing that in that the way they behave effects the community of my friends here and the size of the group meditation. I do hope for the best. -Buck in the Dome > > This will always remain an individual decision. I have friends who are very > much in the center of the movement, and who struggle with these policies, > mostly by keeping their mouths shut. You have to think about to whom of your > friends you tell what. And this is then really like it was in East Germany > with the Stasi, I have a brother, who grew up in this system and told me how > it was. He said that it leads to a kind of a double mind, where you behave > like an obedient GDR citizen OTOH and and with some close friends, whose > opinion you happen to know, you rant about the system. > > And yet, there are people like Share, who are just fine with the system like > it is, who don't seem to have any points of conflict with the movement, and > for them it is just fine. You could say that the movement serves them well, > until any of these conflicts arise. > > For me it is like it is with you: I wouldn't like to be in su
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Based on my previous experience answering a question of yours, I think you are more than JUST curious, more than JUST desiring to investigate and learn. Nonetheless in this instance, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked you what you mean by JUST curious. I'm putting JUST in all caps because you seem to have missed it in my comment and question. BTW, if YOU don't want to answer MY question, YOU can also say so. And that would also be an answer of a sort. From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 10:34 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Ah, Judy your saying just curious is like Obama and Romney > saying they did the debates to provide entertaining TV. IMO > What do you mean by just curious? "Curious" means "marked by desire to investigate and learn," according to my dictionary. If you'd prefer not to answer my question, just say so. That would also be an answer, of a sort. > From: authfriend > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sharelong60" wrote: > > Share: I've dealt with heat before and I was much younger then. > > Plus now I have all this practice dealing with heat on FFL! > > Are you confident that you've done a good job "dealing with > heat" on FFL, Share? > > Just curious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Mr. Soss! thank you so much for your kind and encouraging comment. I bet I remember it some blizzardy winter morning, smile, and gear up for the expedition north to the Domes (-: From: nablusoss1008 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Ah, Buck in Patanjali, you just gave my heart a whammy of a sweet jolt. > Yes, it must be wonderful to do program with Vernon. I have his book and > have read bits and pieces here and there. He and Jerry Jarvis and David > Orme-Johnson are 3 of my heroes. > > I love your simply and richly answer about Fairfield. And I agree, though I > didn't always. It's taken me a long time to realize what an amazing > community it is. But now I'm so grateful that I've hung in here through > thick and thin, blizzardy winters and sweltering summers, in the Dome, out of > the Dome, etc. > > Ok, time for breakfast, then off...to the Dome! I might have to wear my > long hooded down coat this morning. Bet car windows are frosted. > Share in Bhagambrini Congratulations to both of these 2 heros. While many posters here whine about the state of the world/USpolitics and life in general these two blessed souls actually do something about it. You are truly blessed !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Ah, Judy your saying just curious is like Obama and Romney saying they did the debates to provide entertaining TV. IMO What do you mean by just curious? From: authfriend To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sharelong60" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sharelong60" wrote: > > > > > > When I referred to all organizations I was addressing the > > > context beyond yet including the TMO. > > > > > > I also have had confrontations, conflicts, etc. with TMO. > > > Whether or not they were harsher than what others experienced, > > > I don't know because I wasn't present at those. And I don't > > > choose to go into details of my own situations because it > > > wouldn't further the discussion and because I am at peace with > > > the various incidents. > > > > It also might bring some heat your way that you want to avoid. > > Fair enough. > > Share: I've dealt with heat before and I was much younger then. > Plus now I have all this practice dealing with heat on FFL! Are you confident that you've done a good job "dealing with heat" on FFL, Share? Just curious.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Ah, Buck in Patanjali, you just gave my heart a whammy of a sweet jolt. Yes, it must be wonderful to do program with Vernon. I have his book and have read bits and pieces here and there. He and Jerry Jarvis and David Orme-Johnson are 3 of my heroes. I love your simply and richly answer about Fairfield. And I agree, though I didn't always. It's taken me a long time to realize what an amazing community it is. But now I'm so grateful that I've hung in here through thick and thin, blizzardy winters and sweltering summers, in the Dome, out of the Dome, etc. Ok, time for breakfast, then off...to the Dome! I might have to wear my long hooded down coat this morning. Bet car windows are frosted. Share in Bhagambrini From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sharelong60" wrote: > > Hi Mr. Soss, this is an experiment in that I've yet to reply via archives > before. Anyway, on a recent MahaSaraswati day the first person I saw was Dr. > Vernon Katz walking along the road on his way to Patanjali Dome. I > considered that sighting a great blessing. Thank you for posting this which > gave me a sweet laugh out loud. Share > Share, I always take a fond delight seeing Vernon come in to the Dome. He is like a last of the Mohicans. Honorably venerable he's an old guy now and looked out for. He was an old guy when I was a kid. I've known him and read him since I was seventeen. Now again it is special to come out after the Dome meditation and drive back home towards the farm listening to the local radio show reading of verses from his Bhagavad-Gita. It's all a pretty Utopian context. Someone asked of me at this conference I was at in New York State a couple weeks ago, "How do you live in Fairfield?". I laughed. "Simply and richly", I answered. -Buck > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robin Carlsen" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > SHARE: Remembering that Maharishi said, "What we have no control over > > we take to be the will of God." > > > > > > The way I read (I had not heard this before) this statement of > > Maharishi's, it proves that he was in a higher state of consciousness. > > Maharishi, and only Maharishi, had this ability to say something--and if > > you really took it in from where he was saying it, and felt its > > resonances throughout the universe itself [and that is indeed what > > happened if you were sensitive enough], your very being told you he was > > representing reality itself. > > > > > > There is the strict *content* of what Maharishi is saying here. But as > > soon as I read it, *I felt the context of Maharishi and his > > consciousness* and how perfectly, metaphysically, apt his comment was. > > > > > > Not only that: IT STILL SEEMS TRUE TO ME. But Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, > > he was, during a stretch of time, infinitely tuned-in to the cosmos--at > > least he could say something like this, and in one's being one sensed > > that he was, as it were, making known the profoundest truth that could > > be known. "What we have no control over we take to be the will of God". > > How brilliant is this? It is said by someone who 'has more context' than > > anyone whom I have ever known. > > > > > > I don't know how many persons (you would have to be an initiator to > > really feel this, I suppose) remember how Maharishi would make some > > truth become a kind of perception in one's life. I think, even now, I > > can benefit from this precept. It actually works for me. Even as I do > > not believe in a Personal God. > > > > > > But I believe in the empirical truth of Maharishi's words--*I > > discovered their truth at a level I could not have any control over*. > > That was the extraordinariness of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: he wasn't > > making this stuff up. He was reading off reality. > > > > > > One of the most perspicacious things I have ever heard--and only > > Maharishi could have said it. As long as one guards oneself from the > > mystical aura of his authority--and not allow this statement to be any > > truer than it actually is--one can apply this truth in one's life. At > > least when this situation comes up, this remembered perspective could be > > useful. > > > > > > No one but Maharishi could say this--because it is (or it seems to me > > it is objectively true somehow. "What we have no control over we take to > > be the will of God". Even, then, if it is not literally true, to adopt > > this frame of reference will be beneficial to us. No one refuted--in his > > presence--a single thing Maharishi uttered. > > > > > > Vernon was doing that ALL the time ! :- > > Conversations with Maharishi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
To Buck - while I appreciate positive thinking, and the desire for god things to happen, when I came into TM in the '70s I heard stories about people being pushed around by the leaders of the Movement, had my own experiences with it till I said so long in the 1990's and these kinds of strong arm tactics and inflexible attitudes on the part of TM leaders is still going on today - what makes you feel that any of it will change after at least 30 years of it being the way it has been? From: emilymae.reyn To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:14 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday wrote: > > Well, it is unfortunate that the Rajas put themselves in this position of > interrogating folks against these un-published guidelines of theirs. This is > a really good example. Instead of just asking that people only practice TM > and the TM-sidhis in the Domes and not practice other spiritual techniques > this person, someone who we all know in the community, is there standing in > line with folks waiting for coffee downtown telling of being creep-ed out and > Of the visceral fear it triggered in a feeling of how invasive the interview > conversation was in the amount and detail of personal information they had > gathered about this person and were asking about. > > Next step for the person is to git three 'recommendations' from governors. > That means again going through this experience of applying for a badge and > the feeling of being creep-ed out by how invasive it was with three or more > people to get recommendations. They likely tell three others each about this > person's experience of being creep-ed out. Those each tell three more. This > is really not good in a community. It is just a bad position for the > TM-rajas to be in building dossiers around the guidelines and the Dome > numbers and interrogating people. > > In the long TM history around this thing with other saints where Maharishi > clearly said a lot of different things about visiting saints to a lot of > different people at different times, the Rajas should drop to being a lot > simpler just in asking people to come and help by being practitioners of this > again. There are really very few TM-virgins around but a lot of people who > could come and meditate. The gross numbers of people meditating in the Domes > are really quite paltry; however, the Rajas might want to quickly think again > about change and re-introducing a second element to this particular problem > even before their Nov 6 'election' campaign to increase the Dome numbers goes > too far towards re-soliciting people back. The Rajas need to work more at > reconciliation with their community rather than just hoping that people might > be nice and come back. Yes, time is of an essence and it is certainly within > the authority, power and responsibility of the TM-Rajas to improve on things like this. The ball is in their court to serve. > -Buck > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > Khazana I wouldn't say I'm fine with the system as it is since it seems to > > be so hard on other people. However, I have to also take into account my > > own experience. I wasn't questioned at all when I returned to the Dome > > after a 7 year absence. Though I had been to Amma several times and had > > been participating in Waking Down on a weekly basis right here in FF. > > Maybe I wasn't questioned because I'm not a gov. I don't know and I feel > > for the people who are given such a rough time about it all. > > > > > > OTOH, I too have been interviewed by Movement leaders and have had > > conflicts with them. Again I don't understand why I've escaped harsher > > reprimands. But I'll give an example. Years ago, after the end of a > > relationship, tantric teacher David Deida happened to come to town. Right > > away I knew I wanted to attend. I was an MUM grad student at the time. > > I was open about my participation in Deida's workshop. But perhaps more > > importantly I felt right about it. True, I was scared of possible > > consequences. But I was willing to take that chance because I felt I was > > doing what was right for me and my life. Also important, inside I > > acknowledged that I might be wrong. I was not 100% sure that I was acting > > rightly. But again, I was willing to take a chance that I was. > > > > > > That feeling of rightness, even when not 100% sure, even when afraid of > > possible consequences, is a grace and I do believe it is what has protected > > me all these decades on a spiritual path. I am deeply grateful for this > > grace. > > > > PS Yahoo has been acting wonky the last few days. Posts get to the > > archives right away and I read there to stay current. Posts to my inbox > > can arrive many hours after th
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
This is a good story that reflects the idea of "take what you like and leave the rest." Sometimes, for health reasons, or ethical reasons, or logistical reasons, or mental or emotional reasons, this platitude just doesn't cut it. I've had to leave organizations before, for taking a stand. I've been "lynched" in a conference room before. This org doesn't sound much different that the stereotype of corporate america. I "took what I liked and left the rest" on many occasions, but I was getting a working salary. From: Michael Jackson To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making foam. The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt. So I stopped going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out of program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was called in to the Personnel Director’s office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn’t start toeing the line. I told him about the allergy and he said it didn’t matter, rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy doctor (Allen Lieberman in Charleston SC) saying that I had to avoid formaldehyde exposure. Bill said it still didn’t matter. Rules were rules. No exceptions. So I returned to the Dome and after a couple days started feeling like crap again. So I thought about things and decided to write a letter to then TM Sidhi Administrator Greg Wilson and told him my story and sent him a copy of the letter from my allergy doctor. A nd a couple weeks later to my surprise he wrote me a letter back giving me permission to do program in my room, tho he suggested that I might consider serving MIU in some other capacity since Dome attendance was part of staff program. So I quit going to the Dome again. A couple weeks went by and I was called into Bill Sands office again, with my letters in my pocket. After he gave me hell and pretty much told me my time at MIU was over, I told him I had permission from Greg Wilson and showed him my letter, or rather a copy of it, I wisely had the original in my room. Bill was completely discombobulated and hemmed and hawed and puffed and blustered but had to back down, but he didn’t like it. So I went back to doing program in my room and had great experiences and was much more effective in activity for about eight months until Bill found a way to get rid of me. From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday This being Compassionate Posting Wednesday on FFL where ne'er a negative word is written, I am not going to go on at all about just how stoopid and undeserving it is that meditators who even live in Fairfield do not come to the group meditation. No, I'll save that for tomorrow and then may be also consider the fallen away and outright meditation quitters out in the world too; all those who have fell off the meditation wagon and even walked away entirely. I am excercising a lot of compassion for them all right now today, -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > > > > - Forwarded Message - > From: DailyGood.org > To: sharelong60@... > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:15 AM > Subject: The Science of Compassion > > > DailyGood.org > You're receiving this email because you are a DailyGood subscriber. > Trouble Viewing? On a mobile? Just click here. Not interested anymore? > Unsubscribe. > > October 23, 2012 a project of ServiceSpace > Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What > appears bad manners, an ill temper or cynicism is always a sign of things no > ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on > down there where the spirit meets the bone. > > - Miller Williams - > The Science of Compassion > "As human beings, we will inevitably encounter suffering at some point in our > lives. However, we also have evolved very specific social mechanisms to > relieve that pain: altruism and compassion. It is not just receiving > compassion that relieves our pain...The act of experiencing compassion and > helping others actually leads to tremendous mental and physical well-being > for us as well. It is our ability to stand together as a group, to support > each other, to help each other, to comm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
By that time I didn't feel I was being mis-used - it was just part of the junk one had to put up with if one had no money (which makes you a darling of the Movement) and wants to stay and be part of the MIU experience. I actually liked Bill although he was a bit aloof but I reckon he learned that from TM higher ups. When I did get ticked off was at the end of school year 1987 when he and my direct supervisor Brad O'nash called me in for the normal staff interview to see if I would be staying, talked about the extreme importance of the upcoming banquet for the DAC (Development Advisory Council) and asked me if they could count on me as the head of the bakery to do all the extra work making desserts for the banquets and I said yes of course I am not going anywhere. Then as soon as I had promised to do my best Bill told me I had to leave MIU immediately after the banquet weekend was over because I wasn't participating in group program. When I reminded him that I had Greg Wilson's written permission to do program in my room, Bill who had obviously prepared said "That is the Capitol (of the Age of Enlightenment) they don't tell us what to do over here at MIU. So you are going to have to leave after the last day of the DAC weekend. This was only about 2 weeks away, mind you. When I asked how long I had between the end of the banquet and leaving MIU, Bill said "5 oclock." "What?" says I. Bills says "The last meal of the banquet is noon, we want you out by 5 oclock that afternoon." Then I did get mad and told them that if that was the deal, I would pack up and leave right then and they could come make the breads and desserts for the DAC deal. Neither of them was willing to do anything so extreme and after they took me to task for going back on my agreement to do all I could with the banquet (which I countered with what the hell do you think you are doing to me?) they asked me how much time I wanted and I said 2 weeks from the last day of the banquet. Bill said that was too long and I got up to leave and said "Then the two of you will have to bake those desserts." They were both mad, but had to back down. Real baking is an art and there was no one else who could have stepped in and done what had to be done. After I walked out of the office, I just shook my head and laughed. It was just typical Movement trash behavior. And so I kept my word, did a great job with the banquet in addition to my regular duties. The banquet went well and I even saved the day by preventing a very obstinate and bullheaded Purusha guy they had sent me from ruining the dessert for a thousand people by not following my instructions (I was mad enough to punch him) And left 2 weeks later - it was just typical Movement treatment by the powers that be towards the people who actually make the Movement successful - from what some of your write, things have not improved in the last 25 years. From: Share Long To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday Jason, it's my experience that in every organization there are at least a few good people. Michael, I had a similar interview to yours. I am so sorry you were given such a hard time. I admire how you handled the situation. From: Jason To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday You know, all these cults and religions have his 'shit herd' mentality. I am thankfull that I never lived inside any cult or org. Being on the outside gave me a 'ringside view' of a spectrum of these things. I talk to a lot of people who are in cults and get an idea of what is happening inside. You are better off alone. All these orgs and cults are inhabited by such bureaucratic, pedantic, dicactic, dogmatic, zombie bots. --- Michael Jackson wrote: > > Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going > to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to > formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making > foam. > The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt. > > > So I stopped > going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out > of > program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was > called > in to the Personnel Director's office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious > talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn't start toeing the line. > > I told him about the allergy and he said it didn't matter, > rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
What do you mean by continue? Both Buck and I go to the Dome to meditate. So we continue with TMO in that way. And yes, going to the Dome supports my core value system. It sounded like Jason was saying that all organizations are peopled by bots. I was replying to that. Also I don't understand your reply in another post to my saying that I don't understand why I escaped harsher reprimands. Though I do go on to say that it might be because I'm not a gov, a TM teacher. From: Emily Reyn To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday Of course, org's are composed of people. Does a 'few good people' mean that you compromise your core value system to continue if you find it at odds? From: Share Long To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday Jason, it's my experience that in every organization there are at least a few good people. Michael, I had a similar interview to yours. I am so sorry you were given such a hard time. I admire how you handled the situation. From: Jason To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday You know, all these cults and religions have his 'shit herd' mentality. I am thankfull that I never lived inside any cult or org. Being on the outside gave me a 'ringside view' of a spectrum of these things. I talk to a lot of people who are in cults and get an idea of what is happening inside. You are better off alone. All these orgs and cults are inhabited by such bureaucratic, pedantic, dicactic, dogmatic, zombie bots. --- Michael Jackson wrote: > > Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going > to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to > formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making > foam. > The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt. > > > So I stopped > going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out > of > program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was > called > in to the Personnel Director's office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious > talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn't start toeing the line. > > I told him about the allergy and he said it didn't matter, > rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy doctor (Allen > Lieberman in Charleston SC) saying that I had to avoid formaldehyde exposure. > Bill > said it still didn't matter. Rules were rules. No exceptions. > > So I returned to the Dome and after a couple days started > feeling like crap again. So I thought about things and decided to write a > letter to then TM Sidhi Administrator Greg Wilson and told him my story and > sent him a copy of the letter from my allergy doctor. > A > nd a couple weeks later to my surprise he wrote me a letter > back giving me permission to do program in my room, tho he suggested that I > might consider serving MIU in some other capacity since Dome attendance was > part of staff program. So I quit going to the Dome again. > > A couple weeks went by and I was called into Bill Sands office > again, with my letters in my pocket. After he gave me hell and pretty much > told > me my time at MIU was over, I told him I had permission from Greg Wilson and > showed him my letter, or rather a copy of it, I wisely had the original in my > room. > > Bill was completely discombobulated and hemmed and hawed and > puffed and blustered but had to back down, but he didn't like it. So I went > back to doing program in my room and had great experiences and was much more > effective in activity for about eight months until Bill found a way to get rid > of me. > > > > > From: Buck > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:52 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > > This being Compassionate Posting Wednesday on FFL where ne'er a negative word > is written, I am not going to go on at all about just how stoopid and > undeserving it is that meditators who even live in Fairfield do not come to > the group meditation. No, I'll save that for tomorrow and then may be also > consider the fallen away and outright meditation quitters out in the world > too; all those who have fell off the meditation wagon and even walked away > entirely. I am excercising a lot of compassion for them all right now today, > -Buck in the Dome >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Of course, org's are composed of people. Does a 'few good people' mean that you compromise your core value system to continue if you find it at odds? From: Share Long To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday Jason, it's my experience that in every organization there are at least a few good people. Michael, I had a similar interview to yours. I am so sorry you were given such a hard time. I admire how you handled the situation. From: Jason To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday You know, all these cults and religions have his 'shit herd' mentality. I am thankfull that I never lived inside any cult or org. Being on the outside gave me a 'ringside view' of a spectrum of these things. I talk to a lot of people who are in cults and get an idea of what is happening inside. You are better off alone. All these orgs and cults are inhabited by such bureaucratic, pedantic, dicactic, dogmatic, zombie bots. --- Michael Jackson wrote: > > Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going > to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to > formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making > foam. > The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt. > > > So I stopped > going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out > of > program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was > called > in to the Personnel Director's office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious > talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn't start toeing the line. > > I told him about the allergy and he said it didn't matter, > rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy doctor (Allen > Lieberman in Charleston SC) saying that I had to avoid formaldehyde exposure. > Bill > said it still didn't matter. Rules were rules. No exceptions. > > So I returned to the Dome and after a couple days started > feeling like crap again. So I thought about things and decided to write a > letter to then TM Sidhi Administrator Greg Wilson and told him my story and > sent him a copy of the letter from my allergy doctor. > A > nd a couple weeks later to my surprise he wrote me a letter > back giving me permission to do program in my room, tho he suggested that I > might consider serving MIU in some other capacity since Dome attendance was > part of staff program. So I quit going to the Dome again. > > A couple weeks went by and I was called into Bill Sands office > again, with my letters in my pocket. After he gave me hell and pretty much > told > me my time at MIU was over, I told him I had permission from Greg Wilson and > showed him my letter, or rather a copy of it, I wisely had the original in my > room. > > Bill was completely discombobulated and hemmed and hawed and > puffed and blustered but had to back down, but he didn't like it. So I went > back to doing program in my room and had great experiences and was much more > effective in activity for about eight months until Bill found a way to get rid > of me. > > > > > From: Buck > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:52 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > > This being Compassionate Posting Wednesday on FFL where ne'er a negative word > is written, I am not going to go on at all about just how stoopid and > undeserving it is that meditators who even live in Fairfield do not come to > the group meditation. No, I'll save that for tomorrow and then may be also > consider the fallen away and outright meditation quitters out in the world > too; all those who have fell off the meditation wagon and even walked away > entirely. I am excercising a lot of compassion for them all right now today, > -Buck in the Dome >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Jason, it's my experience that in every organization there are at least a few good people. Michael, I had a similar interview to yours. I am so sorry you were given such a hard time. I admire how you handled the situation. From: Jason To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday You know, all these cults and religions have his 'shit herd' mentality. I am thankfull that I never lived inside any cult or org. Being on the outside gave me a 'ringside view' of a spectrum of these things. I talk to a lot of people who are in cults and get an idea of what is happening inside. You are better off alone. All these orgs and cults are inhabited by such bureaucratic, pedantic, dicactic, dogmatic, zombie bots. --- Michael Jackson wrote: > > Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going > to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to > formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making > foam. > The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt. > > > So I stopped > going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out > of > program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was > called > in to the Personnel Director's office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious > talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn't start toeing the line. > > I told him about the allergy and he said it didn't matter, > rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy doctor (Allen > Lieberman in Charleston SC) saying that I had to avoid formaldehyde exposure. > Bill > said it still didn't matter. Rules were rules. No exceptions. > > So I returned to the Dome and after a couple days started > feeling like crap again. So I thought about things and decided to write a > letter to then TM Sidhi Administrator Greg Wilson and told him my story and > sent him a copy of the letter from my allergy doctor. > A > nd a couple weeks later to my surprise he wrote me a letter > back giving me permission to do program in my room, tho he suggested that I > might consider serving MIU in some other capacity since Dome attendance was > part of staff program. So I quit going to the Dome again. > > A couple weeks went by and I was called into Bill Sands office > again, with my letters in my pocket. After he gave me hell and pretty much > told > me my time at MIU was over, I told him I had permission from Greg Wilson and > showed him my letter, or rather a copy of it, I wisely had the original in my > room. > > Bill was completely discombobulated and hemmed and hawed and > puffed and blustered but had to back down, but he didn't like it. So I went > back to doing program in my room and had great experiences and was much more > effective in activity for about eight months until Bill found a way to get rid > of me. > > > > > From: Buck > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:52 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday > > > This being Compassionate Posting Wednesday on FFL where ne'er a negative word > is written, I am not going to go on at all about just how stoopid and > undeserving it is that meditators who even live in Fairfield do not come to > the group meditation. No, I'll save that for tomorrow and then may be also > consider the fallen away and outright meditation quitters out in the world > too; all those who have fell off the meditation wagon and even walked away > entirely. I am excercising a lot of compassion for them all right now today, > -Buck in the Dome >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Khazana I wouldn't say I'm fine with the system as it is since it seems to be so hard on other people. However, I have to also take into account my own experience. I wasn't questioned at all when I returned to the Dome after a 7 year absence. Though I had been to Amma several times and had been participating in Waking Down on a weekly basis right here in FF. Maybe I wasn't questioned because I'm not a gov. I don't know and I feel for the people who are given such a rough time about it all. OTOH, I too have been interviewed by Movement leaders and have had conflicts with them. Again I don't understand why I've escaped harsher reprimands. But I'll give an example. Years ago, after the end of a relationship, tantric teacher David Deida happened to come to town. Right away I knew I wanted to attend. I was an MUM grad student at the time. I was open about my participation in Deida's workshop. But perhaps more importantly I felt right about it. True, I was scared of possible consequences. But I was willing to take that chance because I felt I was doing what was right for me and my life. Also important, inside I acknowledged that I might be wrong. I was not 100% sure that I was acting rightly. But again, I was willing to take a chance that I was. That feeling of rightness, even when not 100% sure, even when afraid of possible consequences, is a grace and I do believe it is what has protected me all these decades on a spiritual path. I am deeply grateful for this grace. PS Yahoo has been acting wonky the last few days. Posts get to the archives right away and I read there to stay current. Posts to my inbox can arrive many hours after they were posted. Even my own! Remembering that Maharishi said, "What we have no control over we take to be the will of God." From: khazana108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck" wrote: > > > > Yes, one would hope if you were interested in meditating with the large > > group that they would issue you a badge. That in itself is still a problem > > to surmount just coming in. I spoke with someone yesterday in line waiting > > for coffee, an old meditator here who just re-applied and still waiting to > > get a Dome badge and was appalled at the dossier that was compiled and > > questioning by the course office of private information they had gathered > > about concerts gone to and saints visited. Was really creep-ed out by the > > interview. However the air quality in the Domes is a lot better than > > before. They have been working at that. I am told tha smaller rooms > > around like out in Maharishi Vedic City have real nice air quality. I do > > notice the formaldehyde taint is not as great in some places around the > > dome depending on the flow of fresh air mix by the air handling system. > > Overall it is noticeably better. > > > > The TMO collects information on you? They definitely do this. The national course offices know exactly which TM teacher went to another organization or has been with another saint and so on. Basically according to all criteria they have for giving admission to courses, they will collect information. On that depends if you will get a batch or admission to any kind of course. > Why do you want to even > be in the dome if this is the sort of treatment you get in > a so called "coherent" atmosphere. Don't you think it's gone > wrong, the AofE course office shouldn't be like the east German > Stazi should it? Maybe you want to amend your unified field > poems a bit. This will always remain an individual decision. I have friends who are very much in the center of the movement, and who struggle with these policies, mostly by keeping their mouths shut. You have to think about to whom of your friends you tell what. And this is then really like it was in East Germany with the Stasi, I have a brother, who grew up in this system and told me how it was. He said that it leads to a kind of a double mind, where you behave like an obedient GDR citizen OTOH and and with some close friends, whose opinion you happen to know, you rant about the system. And yet, there are people like Share, who are just fine with the system like it is, who don't seem to have any points of conflict with the movement, and for them it is just fine. You could say that the movement serves them well, until any of these conflicts arise. For me it is like it is with you: I wouldn't like to be in such a situation again, I prefer my freedom, and I am happy that in my present spiritual environment, there is not at all a problem with that. The only problem I see for the movement with these policies is that they will slowly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I quit going
to the Dome when I was on staff due to a really serious allergy to
formaldehyde, which in those days at least was a major component in making
foam.
The longer I was in the Dome, the worse I felt.
So I stopped
going. I did program by myself in my pod room and felt great both in and out of
program. As twice a day in the Dome was part of the staff program, I was called
in to the Personnel Director’s office (Bill Sands) and he gave me a serious
talk and threatened me with dismissal if I didn’t start toeing the line.
I told him about the allergy and he said it didn’t matter,
rules were rules. I showed him the letter I had from my allergy doctor (Allen
Lieberman in Charleston SC) saying that I had to avoid formaldehyde exposure.
Bill
said it still didn’t matter. Rules were rules. No exceptions.
So I returned to the Dome and after a couple days started
feeling like crap again. So I thought about things and decided to write a
letter to then TM Sidhi Administrator Greg Wilson and told him my story and
sent him a copy of the letter from my allergy doctor.
A
nd a couple weeks later to my surprise he wrote me a letter
back giving me permission to do program in my room, tho he suggested that I
might consider serving MIU in some other capacity since Dome attendance was
part of staff program. So I quit going to the Dome again.
A couple weeks went by and I was called into Bill Sands office
again, with my letters in my pocket. After he gave me hell and pretty much told
me my time at MIU was over, I told him I had permission from Greg Wilson and
showed him my letter, or rather a copy of it, I wisely had the original in my
room.
Bill was completely discombobulated and hemmed and hawed and
puffed and blustered but had to back down, but he didn’t like it. So I went
back to doing program in my room and had great experiences and was much more
effective in activity for about eight months until Bill found a way to get rid
of me.
From: Buck
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:52 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fw: The Science of Compassion, for Wednesday
This being Compassionate Posting Wednesday on FFL where ne'er a negative word
is written, I am not going to go on at all about just how stoopid and
undeserving it is that meditators who even live in Fairfield do not come to the
group meditation. No, I'll save that for tomorrow and then may be also
consider the fallen away and outright meditation quitters out in the world too;
all those who have fell off the meditation wagon and even walked away entirely.
I am excercising a lot of compassion for them all right now today,
-Buck in the Dome
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
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> - Forwarded Message -
> From: DailyGood.org
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> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: The Science of Compassion
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> October 23, 2012 a project of ServiceSpace
> Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What
> appears bad manners, an ill temper or cynicism is always a sign of things no
> ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on
> down there where the spirit meets the bone.
>
> - Miller Williams -
> The Science of Compassion
> "As human beings, we will inevitably encounter suffering at some point in our
> lives. However, we also have evolved very specific social mechanisms to
> relieve that pain: altruism and compassion. It is not just receiving
> compassion that relieves our pain...The act of experiencing compassion and
> helping others actually leads to tremendous mental and physical well-being
> for us as well. It is our ability to stand together as a group, to support
> each other, to help each other, to communicate for mutual understanding, and
> to cooperate, that has taken our species this far." Dr. James R. Doty, the
> Director of the Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education at
> Stanford University, describes the scientific underpinnings of compassion in
> this piece. { read more }
> Be The Change
> As Dr. Doty writes, "Compassion is the recognition of another's suffering and
> a desire to alleviate that suffering." Recognize somebody's sadness,
> isolation, or suffering and try to connect with them. { more }
>
>
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