Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:54 PM, Share Long wrote: Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? It's probably been at least ten years or more since I had an online conversation with Judy, and that probably a good thing. I started posting around 2000 to Google Groups and she didn't post any comments on my messages for at least five years - until I said something about Hillary and Bill lying. Ever since then, she's been trying to discredit me in any way she can - calling me a liar and a troll hundreds of times, at the least provocation, sort of like Judy saying you are pandering. That's really funny, seeing as how she was the biggest panderer on FFL of all time when she was dialoging with Robin, to the point that he posted a scathing put-down of her, which she now calls a parody. Go figure. It will perhaps come as a shock to some, but in reading Barry more closely and without the intense bias that has gripped me right from the start when Barry appeared to make himself immune to the effects of my posts, I have concluded that essentially Barry is right. Right not just about Judy; but right about even myself... - Masked Zebra http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/300960
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Says Richard, proving he's a dishonest troll. None of what he says below is accurate. It's probably been at least ten years or more since I had an online conversation with Judy, and that probably a good thing. I started posting around 2000 to Google Groups and she didn't post any comments on my messages for at least five years - until I said something about Hillary and Bill lying. Ever since then, she's been trying to discredit me in any way she can - calling me a liar and a troll hundreds of times, at the least provocation, sort of like Judy saying you are pandering. That's really funny, seeing as how she was the biggest panderer on FFL of all time when she was dialoging with Robin, to the point that he posted a scathing put-down of her, which she now calls a parody. Go figure. It will perhaps come as a shock to some, but in reading Barry more closely and without the intense bias that has gripped me right from the start when Barry appeared to make himself immune to the effects of my posts, I have concluded that essentially Barry is right. Right not just about Judy; but right about even myself... - Masked Zebra http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/300960
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 10:06 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken seriously ALL the time. Go figure! That's excellent Share! Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about things. I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts. Back by popular demand! TMer #214 in the U.S., according to Beaulah Smith.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself. My favorite was the one from when you worked as a reporter, If anyone wants to make lot's of money, go into commissioned sales. [image: Inline image 1] On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:03 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself. My favorite was the one from when you worked as a reporter, (if I have that right) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. So, why would I want to be taking you seriously - you're just another anonymous poster. But, your contributions should be able to stand on their own without any comment from me, pro or con. So, far you've been an interesting read, but I'm not sure why you're not interested in discussing spiritual paths, music, or any of the other 10,000 topics I've posted to FFL. Go figure. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. Well, I always put my best face forward - but you didn't post a photo of your face. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 10:49 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Had nothing to do with your lie about Hillary, Richard. I've always found you an excruciatingly boring troll. You need to stop the lying, Judy. Calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine. The term troll is highly subjective, and some posts will look like trolling to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. I do believe that in this vast audience here at FFL you can count Share as your single believer in this meaningful contribution aspect with regard to yourself. Quite a few others are ready to volunteer to drive you to the local nuthouse. But, almost everyone knows for a fact that Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. I'm sorry if that upset you, but it's the truth. It's not complicated. They don't call her Judge Judy for nothing, Share. She makes the local junkyard dog look like a kitten in comparison. Back in 2000 when I started posting to Google Groups - I must have posted thousands of on-topic messages trying to get a dialog going. Judy didn't have one single comment to post in reply for at least five years. Then one day I called Hillary Clinton a liar, and it's true, but ever since then she has been trying to get others to shun me. But, it didn't work and now she is exposed as the person she is: small-minded, prejudiced, judgemental, petty and nit-picky and old and very cranky, to say the least. Now it looks like Judy is just plain JELLOS. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/10/2014 9:02 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: You need to stop the lying, Judy. Calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine. The term troll is highly subjective, and some posts will look like trolling to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. I do believe that in this vast audience here at FFL you can count Share as your single believer in this meaningful contribution aspect with regard to yourself. Quite a few others are ready to volunteer to drive you to the local nuthouse. Give me one reason why I would want or need to have a conversation or dialog with Judy or Barry - just one. The only informants I'm really interested hearing from are Share and Buck, because they are real TMers who live and work in Fairfield, IA and meditate in the domes on a daily basis. Steve has meaningful contributions too, and Lawson posts the most insightful comments about the mechanics of consciousness. But, I seem to get your attention quite often. Prattle. Go figure. But, almost everyone knows for a fact that Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. I'm sorry if that upset you, but it's the truth. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/10/2014 8:29 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Says Richard, proving he's a dishonest troll. None of what he says below is accurate. We could look it up - the search engine on Google Groups works good. But, I already posted the link to Yahoo Groups message from Robin where you pandered to the Masked Zebra big time. You're just looking like a poser now, in a feeble attempt to deny your own pandering. It has already been established that Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. It's not complicated. http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/300960 It's probably been at least ten years or more since I had an online conversation with Judy, and that probably a good thing. I started posting around 2000 to Google Groups and she didn't post any comments on my messages for at least five years - until I said something about Hillary and Bill lying. Ever since then, she's been trying to discredit me in any way she can - calling me a liar and a troll hundreds of times, at the least provocation, sort of like Judy saying you are pandering. That's really funny, seeing as how she was the biggest panderer on FFL of all time when she was dialoging with Robin, to the point that he posted a scathing put-down of her, which she now calls a parody. Go figure. It will perhaps come as a shock to some, but in reading Barry more closely and without the intense bias that has gripped me right from the start when Barry appeared to make himself immune to the effects of my posts, I have concluded that essentially Barry is right. Right not just about Judy; but right about even myself... - Masked Zebra http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/topics/300960
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/10/2014 9:02 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote: You need to stop the lying, Judy. Calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine. The term troll is highly subjective, and some posts will look like trolling to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. I do believe that in this vast audience here at FFL you can count Share as your single believer in this meaningful contribution aspect with regard to yourself. Quite a few others are ready to volunteer to drive you to the local nuthouse. Give me one reason why I would want or need to have a conversation or dialog with Judy or Barry - just one. The only informants I'm really interested hearing from are Share and Buck, because they are real TMers who live and work in Fairfield, IA and meditate in the domes on a daily basis. Steve has meaningful contributions too, and Lawson posts the most insightful comments about the mechanics of consciousness. But, I seem to get your attention quite often. Prattle. Go figure. Hearing the overhead fan squeaking incessantly is eventually going to get the grease, Ricky. But, almost everyone knows for a fact that Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. I'm sorry if that upset you, but it's the truth. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Jesus Christ, this makes me smile! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself. My favorite was the one from when you worked as a reporter, If anyone wants to make lot's of money, go into commissioned sales. On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:03 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote: Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself. My favorite was the one from when you worked as a reporter, (if I have that right) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. So, why would I want to be taking you seriously - you're just another anonymous poster. But, your contributions should be able to stand on their own without any comment from me, pro or con. So, far you've been an interesting read, but I'm not sure why you're not interested in discussing spiritual paths, music, or any of the other 10,000 topics I've posted to FFL. Go figure. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. Well, I always put my best face forward - but you didn't post a photo of your face. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. I can't see that as being helpful during a psychotic episode. Probably make it worse in the same way that hallucinogenic drugs would. I also wouldn't recommend it for serious depression for the same reason. But maybe there are times during the day in depression or during the non-psychotic part of schizophrenia that it might be useful if practised gingerly. It didn't help the two TMers I knew who were psychotic, they got worse the more they did it. I wouldn't even try it instead of drugs, it's a job for the professionals. But the TM organization isn't equipped to handle those details, and MMY's attitude towards psychiatrists made it difficult to develop the proper professional relationship. Norman Rosenthal could never have been a prominent TMer back in the day, given Maharishi's attitude. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : MUM, the TMO, and the TM movement had two main areas of culpability with respect to this man and the incident: 1) there's a pervasive attitude that TM cures all ills and that all forms of medication can be reduced by doing TM (the MUM homepage even had a banner proclaiming it during the incident); 2) there's a circle the wagons attitude to try and protect the organization, the technique and the mystique that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's attitudes towards ever aspect of life can't possibly be wrong in even the tiniest iota. Those two things together brought about this tragedy: The kid grew to believe that he could go off his meds without telling anyone because he believed that TM was all he needed because that was what everyone else around him believed as well. No-one was willing to alert anyone in authority that he was showing signs of instability, and when his actions became so extreme that there was no way to deny that something was seriously wrong, the Powers that Be still chose to try to deny that they needed to turn to outside help. The result was a murder, and two simultaneous lawsuits that nearly bankrupt MUM -one from the family of the murder victim, and one from the family of the murderer. Only now are they recovering from the financial fallout, from what I can tell. It's a shocking story from every angle. I hope some sort of lesson got learned at MUM. Obviously the TMO still keeps up it's pretence of perfection but everyone should have learned something about mental health and the limits of meditating. It isn't going to fix things like this and is likely to make them worse. I've seen it myself a couple of times. No one got hurt, the sufferers just got sent into the care of the health service. A similar story lies behind the recent violence at the pundit compound. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer The trouble with TM I think, is all the BS you get taught about it. Maybe it's different now but in my day TM was seen as the cure for everything, the simple mechanics of stress release (claimed) on the charts seemed to imply that it was just a matter of time before the deep relaxation cured you of all and any problems you have accrued in life. This is really the crux of the issue. It's the combination of three myths that have been taught to TMers consistently since they were instructed. The first is TM is 100% life-supporting and has no possible negative side effects, and the second is TM is all you need...it will solve all problems you could possibly have, and the third is Something good is happening, delivered as a rote response to anything that seems to contradict the first two. The issue with Shuvender Sem, as even Lawson admitted yesterday, is that *no one noticed he was crazy*. But the REASON no one noticed is that he was just one more crazy person in a closed environment full of other crazy people. Anyone who has ever spent any time in one of these closed all-TM-all-the-time environments knows what I'm talking about -- almost everyone around you is a mass of neuroses and weirdness, with a few touches of psychosis on the side. And all of this is written off as Something good is happening, and just unstressing. What else, after all, accounts for people considering *obviously* crazy people like Robin Carlsen not only normal, but exemplary, and as role models to be envied and followed? What else accounts for people admiring and envying the many people who Rick interviews, many of whom normal people on the street would consider at the least spaced out and dissociative, and at worst poster children for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Closed TM environments are a ZOO of craziness, characterized by almost everyone in them thinking that they're normal, or even more evolved than other people. OF COURSE no one noticed that Shuvender Sem was off his meds and off the wall. It doesn't work like that of course, if anything seems too good to be true then it very probably is. The problem is that a lot of people associate the flashy early experiences with progress and assume that the stress release process is working when it isn't doing much at all after a while. But they stick at it, just one more course. This is why, I think, you meet so many people who are stuck with long term mental health issues that could be sorted out much easier with other methods. In fact, some of these people think there's nothing wrong with them because they are doing TM. An honest appraisal is needed so people with deep issues can find the best thing rather than getting sucked into something that may not help all that much. And you don't get enough objectivity from TM articles, but people go for a simple solution that's also nice to do. But it's not my first recommendation for a lot of things. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. I can't see that as being helpful during a psychotic episode. Probably make it worse in the same way that hallucinogenic drugs would. I also wouldn't recommend it for serious depression for the same reason. But maybe there are times during the day in depression or during the non-psychotic part of schizophrenia that it might be useful if practised gingerly. It didn't help the two TMers I knew who were psychotic, they got worse the more they did it. I wouldn't even try it instead of drugs, it's a job for the professionals. But the TM organization isn't equipped to handle those details, and MMY's attitude towards psychiatrists made it difficult to develop the proper professional relationship. Norman Rosenthal could never have been a prominent TMer back in the day, given Maharishi's attitude. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : MUM, the TMO, and the TM movement had two main areas of culpability with respect to this man and the incident: 1) there's a pervasive attitude that TM cures all ills and that all forms of medication can be reduced by doing TM (the MUM homepage even had a banner proclaiming it during the incident); 2) there's a circle the wagons attitude to try and protect the organization, the technique
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer The trouble with TM I think, is all the BS you get taught about it. Maybe it's different now but in my day TM was seen as the cure for everything, the simple mechanics of stress release (claimed) on the charts seemed to imply that it was just a matter of time before the deep relaxation cured you of all and any problems you have accrued in life. This is really the crux of the issue. It's the combination of three myths that have been taught to TMers consistently since they were instructed. The first is TM is 100% life-supporting and has no possible negative side effects, and the second is TM is all you need...it will solve all problems you could possibly have, and the third is Something good is happening, delivered as a rote response to anything that seems to contradict the first two. The issue with Shuvender Sem, as even Lawson admitted yesterday, is that *no one noticed he was crazy*. But the REASON no one noticed is that he was just one more crazy person in a closed environment full of other crazy people. Anyone who has ever spent any time in one of these closed all-TM-all-the-time environments knows what I'm talking about -- almost everyone around you is a mass of neuroses and weirdness, with a few touches of psychosis on the side. And all of this is written off as Something good is happening, and just unstressing. What else, after all, accounts for people considering *obviously* crazy people like Robin Carlsen not only normal, but exemplary, and as role models to be envied and followed? What else accounts for people admiring and envying the many people who Rick interviews, many of whom normal people on the street would consider at the least spaced out and dissociative, and at worst poster children for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Closed TM environments are a ZOO of craziness, characterized by almost everyone in them thinking that they're normal, or even more evolved than other people. OF COURSE no one noticed that Shuvender Sem was off his meds and off the wall. Just to follow up and explain a bit more, since I have the time this sunny morning, I am not trying to make a case that *all* TMers are crazier than most people. I'm sure there are many of them who just practiced TM and stayed the fuck away from the TMO and any of its closed environments who are pretty normal. It's the ones who gravitated to the closed environments, the echo chambers in which they rarely speak to anyone who isn't a fellow TMer, who just as rarely even see them, and who spend hours a day doing program and listening to hours upon hours of indoctrination tapes telling them what and how to think who are abnormal. And the main reason is that they spend all of their time doing all of these abnormal things *while being told that they're SUPERIOR and 'more highly evolved* than the people they never interact with. They really come to believe that the abnormalities they see around them on a daily basis ARE normal. They really believe, for example, that everyone probably spends as much money on nostrums and healers as they do, and that they spend as much time thinking about and worrying about their own health as the TMers around them in these closed environments do. They really believe that no one would think badly of them for hiding out during full eclipses and being afraid to enter buildings from the wrong direction. They really believe that bouncing on their butts in an obvious placebo reaction to thinking English-language phrases about flying means that they're going to really fly someday. And every day they see no one around them but people who seem to believe the same crazy things. Also, on another level, look at the people within the closed TM environments who have been presented to them over the years as role models, people to be revered and respected and who they should endeavor to be like. People like the hideously obese, probably close-to-three-hundred-pound whale who gives lectures about perfect health without realizing the irony. People like the guy who wears robes and a crown and is referred to as their king and who was presented to them by Maharishi for years as the very personification of celibate wonderfulness, but who all along had a secret wife and family that even his best friends never knew about. People like the guy who chain-smokes and chain-gulps coffee and who makes movies that celebrate women being degraded talking about how TM is going to cure young people of their ills and mental problems and better prepare them to grow up to be solid citizens
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Gosh, Barry, hate to break it to ya, but people DID notice that Sem was acting crazy for some time before he cracked. And OF COURSE everyone at MUM was terribly upset by the murder. Opsie! You really need to get your fantasies under control. It isn't the fact that you talk about Sem that makes it appear you're on a vendetta, it's because of your malicious and dishonest attacks on the TMers on FFL and at MUM. So OF COURSE no one noticed that Shuvender Sem was having a schizophrenic break...he was just another crazy fish in the fishbowl. And OF COURSE no one thinks too hard about him murdering someone at the very epicenter of the ME Invincible Woo Woo that is supposed to make such things possible. That just produces too much cognitive dissonance to ponder, or to even think about. Better to fall back on the old standards, and continue to portray anyone who *does* think about such things and even spit talk about them publicly as misfits or people with a vendetta.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 3:57 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: almost everyone around you is a mass of neuroses and weirdness, with a few touches of psychosis on the side. The yogic flying demonstrations at MUM pale in comparison to the demonstrations by Rama when he was up on stage levitating in front of a large crowd of followers. At those lectures, Rama would sometimes rise up and levitate and then fill the whole room with golden light, and do lots of other fancy magical stuff. This must have been very impressive - if you were easily suggestible, drugged, in a trance-induction state or under mass hypnosis. Compared to the average Rama crowd, the students at MUM look like paradigms of sanity! One wonders where Barry fits into all of this - weird, neurotic, or psychotic, or all of the above? Barry does seem to have a brain problem from being in and out of cults for most of his adult life and who wouldn't? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I don't believe Barry knew Robin when he was crazy 25-35 years ago, so he isn't in a position to say that he was obviously crazy. In any case, by the time Robin appeared on FFL, he'd long since recovered (and become an enemy of TM, which you'd think Barry would approve of). What else, after all, accounts for people considering *obviously* crazy people like Robin Carlsen not only normal, but exemplary, and as role models to be envied and followed?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions and others who may feel they can benefit from his story. The self-told
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
As far as I'm concerned the Turq was in one cult only. The cult of the Buddhist Rama, a confused individual who later killed himself by drowning wearing a dog-collar around his neck.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer The trouble with TM I think, is all the BS you get taught about it. Maybe it's different now but in my day TM was seen as the cure for everything, the simple mechanics of stress release (claimed) on the charts seemed to imply that it was just a matter of time before the deep relaxation cured you of all and any problems you have accrued in life. This is really the crux of the issue. It's the combination of three myths that have been taught to TMers consistently since they were instructed. The first is TM is 100% life-supporting and has no possible negative side effects, and the second is TM is all you need...it will solve all problems you could possibly have, and the third is Something good is happening, delivered as a rote response to anything that seems to contradict the first two. The issue with Shuvender Sem, as even Lawson admitted yesterday, is that *no one noticed he was crazy*. But the REASON no one noticed is that he was just one more crazy person in a closed environment full of other crazy people. Anyone who has ever spent any time in one of these closed all-TM-all-the-time environments knows what I'm talking about -- almost everyone around you is a mass of neuroses and weirdness, with a few touches of psychosis on the side. And all of this is written off as Something good is happening, and just unstressing. What else, after all, accounts for people considering *obviously* crazy people like Robin Carlsen not only normal, but exemplary, and as role models to be envied and followed? What else accounts for people admiring and envying the many people who Rick interviews, many of whom normal people on the street would consider at the least spaced out and dissociative, and at worst poster children for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This argument doesn't follow. No one who thought Robin was interesting or more evolved or had something to teach or those who watch the BATGAP interviews are closeted away in some closed environment created by TM. Anyone who ascertained Robin was worth listening to or that the BATGAP interviews are worth a few hours of time to watch are their own free agents wandering around the streets at this moment - not rounding their heads off under the influence of TM's deep dark unnatural influence, Bawwy. Closed TM environments are a ZOO of craziness, characterized by almost everyone in them thinking that they're normal, or even more evolved than other people. OF COURSE no one noticed that Shuvender Sem was off his meds and off the wall. You are sure about this with regard to Shuvender? Better check your factoids before you blow any more hot air around here. (Now, on the other hand, being closeted and confined to FFL with Bawwy in residence is enough to make anyone reach for their anti-depressants and/or Clozapine.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer The trouble with TM I think, is all the BS you get taught about it. Maybe it's different now but in my day TM was seen as the cure for everything, the simple mechanics of stress release (claimed) on the charts seemed to imply that it was just a matter of time before the deep relaxation cured you of all and any problems you have accrued in life. This is really the crux of the issue. It's the combination of three myths that have been taught to TMers consistently since they were instructed. The first is TM is 100% life-supporting and has no possible negative side effects, and the second is TM is all you need...it will solve all problems you could possibly have, and the third is Something good is happening, delivered as a rote response to anything that seems to contradict the first two. The issue with Shuvender Sem, as even Lawson admitted yesterday, is that *no one noticed he was crazy*. But the REASON no one noticed is that he was just one more crazy person in a closed environment full of other crazy people. Anyone who has ever spent any time in one of these closed all-TM-all-the-time environments knows what I'm talking about -- almost everyone around you is a mass of neuroses and weirdness, with a few touches of psychosis on the side. And all of this is written off as Something good is happening, and just unstressing. What else, after all, accounts for people considering *obviously* crazy people like Robin Carlsen not only normal, but exemplary, and as role models to be envied and followed? What else accounts for people admiring and envying the many people who Rick interviews, many of whom normal people on the street would consider at the least spaced out and dissociative, and at worst poster children for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Closed TM environments are a ZOO of craziness, characterized by almost everyone in them thinking that they're normal, or even more evolved than other people. OF COURSE no one noticed that Shuvender Sem was off his meds and off the wall. Just to follow up and explain a bit more, since I have the time this sunny morning, I am not trying to make a case that *all* TMers are crazier than most people. I'm sure there are many of them who just practiced TM and stayed the fuck away from the TMO and any of its closed environments who are pretty normal. It's the ones who gravitated to the closed environments, the echo chambers in which they rarely speak to anyone who isn't a fellow TMer, who just as rarely even see them, and who spend hours a day doing program and listening to hours upon hours of indoctrination tapes telling them what and how to think who are abnormal. And the main reason is that they spend all of their time doing all of these abnormal things *while being told that they're SUPERIOR and 'more highly evolved* than the people they never interact with. They really come to believe that the abnormalities they see around them on a daily basis ARE normal. I can't be bothered to read your post further than this, but one comment about your paragraph above would be what came first - the proverbial chicken or the egg? Those who felt it necessary to immerse oneself in courses like Mother Divine or whatever the male equivalent of that was (Father Almighty, maybe?) were probably needing a few screws tightened to start with. I mean, what would possibly compel someone with balance in their heads or their lives to spend that much time cloistered away meditating and listening to Rig Veda or engaging other such riveting activities? They really believe, for example, that everyone probably spends as much money on nostrums and healers as they do, and that they spend as much time thinking about and worrying about their own health as the TMers around them in these closed environments do. They really believe that no one would think badly of them for hiding out during full eclipses and being afraid to enter buildings from the wrong direction. They really believe that bouncing on their butts in an obvious placebo reaction to thinking English-language phrases about flying means that they're going to really fly someday. And every day they see no one around them but people who seem to believe the same crazy things. Also, on another level, look at the people within the closed TM environments who have been presented to them over the years as role models, people to be revered and respected and who they should endeavor to be like. People like the hideously obese
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. TM is based on thinking - so following your logic, if I think, I would be altering how my brain and consequently, my mind, actually works. Can someone put up the definition of TM so we can see what exactly we are doing when we meditate, and so we can isolate any thoughts that might alter our brain and our mind? Or, define TM in such a way as to bring our attention to what happens when we are not thinking, and how this would be of any good. Any help in learning this logic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: maybe there are times during the day in depression or during the non-psychotic part of schizophrenia that it might be useful if practised gingerly. Meditation is defined as simply to think things over. Based on this definition, anyone who thinks can meditate. So, following your logic, a person with depression shouldn't think, unless they do so gingerly? What!?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Duh. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. TM is based on thinking - so following your logic, if I think, I would be altering how my brain and consequently, my mind, actually works. Can someone put up the definition of TM so we can see what exactly we are doing when we meditate, and so we can isolate any thoughts that might alter our brain and our mind? Or, define TM in such a way as to bring our attention to what happens when we are not thinking, and how this would be of any good. Any help in learning this logic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Duh. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: maybe there are times during the day in depression or during the non-psychotic part of schizophrenia that it might be useful if practised gingerly. Meditation is defined as simply to think things over. Based on this definition, anyone who thinks can meditate. So, following your logic, a person with depression shouldn't think, unless they do so gingerly? What!?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 10:25 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Duh. It looks like the answer is in - we can't even agree on the definition of what meditation is. Go figure. Let's rephrase my request: We all think and have thoughts and everyone meditates on something every day. But, how could a thought alter a person's physiological system? If anyone could demonstrate this ability, it would be compared to Copernicus' scientific discoveries. If we could change at will the physical or biological system, just by thinking certain thoughts, we could use that technique to make people well and free from disease. So, can anybody cite a scientific reference to a person ever being able to alter their physiological system by just thinking certain thoughts? Rama levitation events and the Indian rope trick don't count. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. TM is based on thinking - so following your logic, if I think, I would be altering how my brain and consequently, my mind, actually works. Can someone put up the definition of TM so we can see what exactly we are doing when we meditate, and so we can isolate any thoughts that might alter our brain and our mind? Or, define TM in such a way as to bring our attention to what happens when we are not thinking, and how this would be of any good. Any help in learning this logic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 10:25 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Duh. It looks like the answer is in - we can't even agree on the definition of what meditation is. Go figure. Let's rephrase my request: We all think and have thoughts and everyone meditates on something every day. But, how could a thought alter a person's physiological system? If anyone could demonstrate this ability, it would be compared to Copernicus' scientific discoveries. If we could change at will the physical or biological system, just by thinking certain thoughts, we could use that technique to make people well and free from disease. So, can anybody cite a scientific reference to a person ever being able to alter their physiological system by just thinking certain thoughts? Rama levitation events and the Indian rope trick don't count. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Well, a lot of evidence suggests that schizophrenia can become worse with stress, so even in schizophrenics, TM, under proper supervision, might be beneficial to at least some people. I don't buy it. Sure, TM might be good at lowering stress levels in most people but it does this by altering how the brain, and consequently the mind, actually works. TM is based on thinking - so following your logic, if I think, I would be altering how my brain and consequently, my mind, actually works. Can someone put up the definition of TM so we can see what exactly we are doing when we meditate, and so we can isolate any thoughts that might alter our brain and our mind? Or, define TM in such a way as to bring our attention to what happens when we are not thinking, and how this would be of any good. Any help in learning this logic would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 10:25 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Duh. It looks like you lost your train of thought. So, what exactly, is TM? According to MMY, TM is the passing of the cognitive attention from one level of consciousness to another, sutler level of consciousness. This passing back and forth between the gross and finer levels of consciousness is what makes possible the opportunity for transcending. Everyone meditates a few times a day and pauses once or twice to take stock of their own mental contents. And, we are all transcending, all the time, even without a technique. So, what do you think is so special about TM meditation that would cause a person to go blind or grow hair on their palms? Why can't you answer this simple question? In fact, you're talking about nothing - TM is just an acronym made up by Jerry Jarvis in order to facilitate communication. In reality, there's no TM - it's just thinking things over - that's what people do when they meditate. Meditation is just what intelligent people do. It's not complicated. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 1:03 AM, salyavin808 wrote: maybe there are times during the day in depression or during the non-psychotic part of schizophrenia that it might be useful if practised gingerly. Meditation is defined as simply to think things over. Based on this definition, anyone who thinks can meditate. So, following your logic, a person with depression shouldn't think, unless they do so gingerly? What!?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Not a chance. The other day Share asked him a couple of perfectly reasonable questions about something he'd written. He quoted the two questions, and underneath each of them typed in a paragraph that had nothing whatsoever to do with what she'd asked him. Hard to believe. The only time I mess with him is when he's told a potentiallly destructive lie, and then it's just a matter of my stating the facts to counter the lie. There's never any listening on his part, just more trolling. It isn't possible to have a rational conversation with him. LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
(guffaw) And Share claims she doesn't pander... salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:40 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Judy, imo, you are so belligerent that not only does your intelligence get overshadowed by it, but anything even a little positive, you label it pandering. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:38 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: (guffaw) And Share claims she doesn't pander... salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he gets out of it is beyond me. Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Virtually none that I can see in his participation on FFL, no. Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:40 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
'Shooting the messenger' is a metaphoric phrase used to describe the act of lashing out at the presumably blameless bearer of bad or unwelcome news. In earlier times, messages were usually delivered in person by a human envoy. Sometimes, as in war, for example, the messenger was sent from the enemy camp. An easily provoked combatant receiving such an overture could more easily vent anger (or otherwise retaliate) on the deliverer of the unpopular message than on its author. 'Attacking the messenger' is a form of the logical fallacy ad hominem (argument against the man rather than the proposition the man brings). In general spirituality is about something unseen and without form. This does not give one much to argue about or prove. Spiritual forums seem to develop a rather bitter style of debate. If someone disagrees with you or you them, there is not much, really, you can say about nothing. So the arguments devolve into name calling, and name calling is a form of ad hominem since it is designed to demean the man and distract from the points made. Let's say, I do not like Barry. I can call him a jerk. That is an opinion I can hold. As long as I am not using that opinion to try to refute what he says, it is not ad hominem. Some people do not like each other, and name calling on that basis is a time honoured human activity, but it is not one whit an argument against what a person says. How simple can spirituality be, since it consists of basically nothing? Having done a vast amount of cursory, shallow reading, I think it can be boiled down to just two or three principles. 1. Quietness, stillness (presumably taken care of by meditation) 2. Curiosity - scepticism, the willingness to question everything. 3. A consistent, persistent, and genuine desire to want to know what life is all about. The balance of these with their opposite qualities and how they are implemented determines success or failure. If you are not quiet, your mind will not be discriminative because it will never settle down and realise there is more to experience than thought. If you are not curious, you are likely to be a dupe, gullible and easily persuaded. If you do not have the motivation, you are going to just give up eventually. When you look at all the world's religions, all the spiritual groups and cults, you see these principles generally highly complexified and out of whack, out of balance, often with an overwhelming addition of irrelevant material and practices. If someone criticises your spiritual practice, and it bothers you, forgive them because either you or they (or both) know not what one is doing, but at this point you do not know which, so first you have to find out. If your spiritual practice has been successful (or also, totally failed), then you do not care much about all this shit. Unless you have some genuine compassion for your fellow man, you are also not going to be very interested in relating the benefits of knowing about nothing to your fellow man. It is not a requirement that you have this compassion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I guess Xeno didn't see my posts about shooting the messenger. Barry isn't criticized for bringing unwelcome news regarding TM, because he doesn't bring any. He's criticized for his extreme and usually dishonest negative spin on news we already know about, which is not what the phrase refers to. And I would add a fourth principle to Xeno's list of the requirements of spirituality: telling the truth to the very best of one's abiliity. 'Shooting the messenger' is a metaphoric phrase used to describe the act of lashing out at the presumably blameless bearer of bad or unwelcome news. In earlier times, messages were usually delivered in person by a human envoy. Sometimes, as in war, for example, the messenger was sent from the enemy camp. An easily provoked combatant receiving such an overture could more easily vent anger (or otherwise retaliate) on the deliverer of the unpopular message than on its author. 'Attacking the messenger' is a form of the logical fallacy ad hominem (argument against the man rather than the proposition the man brings). In general spirituality is about something unseen and without form. This does not give one much to argue about or prove. Spiritual forums seem to develop a rather bitter style of debate. If someone disagrees with you or you them, there is not much, really, you can say about nothing. So the arguments devolve into name calling, and name calling is a form of ad hominem since it is designed to demean the man and distract from the points made. Let's say, I do not like Barry. I can call him a jerk. That is an opinion I can hold. As long as I am not using that opinion to try to refute what he says, it is not ad hominem. Some people do not like each other, and name calling on that basis is a time honoured human activity, but it is not one whit an argument against what a person says. How simple can spirituality be, since it consists of basically nothing? Having done a vast amount of cursory, shallow reading, I think it can be boiled down to just two or three principles. 1. Quietness, stillness (presumably taken care of by meditation) 2. Curiosity - scepticism, the willingness to question everything. 3. A consistent, persistent, and genuine desire to want to know what life is all about. The balance of these with their opposite qualities and how they are implemented determines success or failure. If you are not quiet, your mind will not be discriminative because it will never settle down and realise there is more to experience than thought. If you are not curious, you are likely to be a dupe, gullible and easily persuaded. If you do not have the motivation, you are going to just give up eventually. When you look at all the world's religions, all the spiritual groups and cults, you see these principles generally highly complexified and out of whack, out of balance, often with an overwhelming addition of irrelevant material and practices. If someone criticises your spiritual practice, and it bothers you, forgive them because either you or they (or both) know not what one is doing, but at this point you do not know which, so first you have to find out. If your spiritual practice has been successful (or also, totally failed), then you do not care much about all this shit. Unless you have some genuine compassion for your fellow man, you are also not going to be very interested in relating the benefits of knowing about nothing to your fellow man. It is not a requirement that you have this compassion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
salyavin, I'm not just defending Richard. I'm expressing my opinion, which is the idea that we all have strengths and weaknesses. Certain weaknesses bother me and others don't, and I think that's true of us all. I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken seriously ALL the time. Go figure! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he gets out of it is beyond me. Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I guess Xeno didn't see my posts about shooting the messenger. Barry isn't criticized for bringing unwelcome news regarding TM, because he doesn't bring any. He's criticized for his extreme and usually dishonest negative spin on news we already know about, which is not what the phrase refers to. And I would add a fourth principle to Xeno's list of the requirements of spirituality: telling the truth to the very best of one's abiliity. 1. No, I did not see those posts. I have not been on the forum much in the past several days. It is rather tedious at times; it may depend on my mood regarding having fun. This place is about as real for living life as living at MUM. 2. It is not necessary to interact with anyone in investigating 'truth', look at all the time Brahmananda Saraswati spent in the forest, and in any case, until spirituality succeeds, one doesn't know what it is anyway, and if spirituality succeeds, one just lives life; one is no longer practising spirituality, it is really irrelevant then. The verbal content of spirituality is all lies, so 'telling the truth' in this regard is absurd. The lies are hints that point beyond the words, or also, they could just be lies flat out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Judy, all I can say to that is for maybe the second or third time in almost 2 years, I really feel sorry for you. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:08 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Virtually none that I can see in his participation on FFL, no. Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:40 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I am sure you're absolutely sincere in saying that, Share. I've been feeling sorry for you virtually since you joined us. Judy, all I can say to that is for maybe the second or third time in almost 2 years, I really feel sorry for you. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:08 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Virtually none that I can see in his participation on FFL, no. Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:40 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken seriously ALL the time. Go figure! That's excellent Share! Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about things. I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he gets out of it is beyond me. Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 2:05 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Virtually none that I can see in his participation on FFL, no. So, it's all about Richard. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. So, why would I want to be taking you seriously - you're just another anonymous poster. But, your contributions should be able to stand on their own without any comment from me, pro or con. So, far you've been an interesting read, but I'm not sure why you're not interested in discussing spiritual paths, music, or any of the other 10,000 topics I've posted to FFL. Go figure. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. Well, I always put my best face forward - but you didn't post a photo of your face. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:56 PM, Share Long wrote: Judy, imo, you are so belligerent that not only does your intelligence get overshadowed by it, but anything even a little positive, you label it pandering. They don't call her Judge Judy for nothing, Share. She makes the local junkyard dog look like a kitten in comparison. Back in 2000 when I started posting to Google Groups - I must have posted thousands of on-topic messages trying to get a dialog going. Judy didn't have one single comment to post in reply for at least five years. Then one day I called Hillary Clinton a liar, and it's true, but ever since then she has been trying to get others to shun me. But, it didn't work and now she is exposed as the person she is: small-minded, prejudiced, judgemental, petty and nit-picky and old and very cranky, to say the least. Now it looks like Judy is just plain JELLOS. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:54 PM, Share Long wrote: Judy, it sounds like you're saying that Richard has zero redeeming qualities. Is that what you're saying? Judy hates conservatives from Texas. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:40 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Not as much as Richard does... Understatement of the decade. Richard has redeeming qualities... Pander, pander, pander. þ OLX 2.1 TD þ When there is no more dualism, Oneness is no longer such.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Speaking of it not taking much to make you happy... Watching you pander to Share is almost as stupefying as watching her pander to Richard or Barry. I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken seriously ALL the time. Go figure! That's excellent Share! Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about things. I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he gets out of it is beyond me. Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Had nothing to do with your lie about Hillary, Richard. I've always found you an excruciatingly boring troll. They don't call her Judge Judy for nothing, Share. She makes the local junkyard dog look like a kitten in comparison. Back in 2000 when I started posting to Google Groups - I must have posted thousands of on-topic messages trying to get a dialog going. Judy didn't have one single comment to post in reply for at least five years. Then one day I called Hillary Clinton a liar, and it's true, but ever since then she has been trying to get others to shun me. But, it didn't work and now she is exposed as the person she is: small-minded, prejudiced, judgemental, petty and nit-picky and old and very cranky, to say the least. Now it looks like Judy is just plain JELLOS. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Why thank you Judy. Yes, many of Share's posts do give me a measure of happiness. The one below I thought was right on target. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Speaking of it not taking much to make you happy... Watching you pander to Share is almost as stupefying as watching her pander to Richard or Barry. I'm not sure that Richard is so concerned about being taken seriously a lot of the time. Sometimes, but not as often as some other people who want to be taken seriously ALL the time. Go figure! That's excellent Share! Once again, you've uncovered the subtle truth about things. I also have grown to enjoy Richard's posts. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: You don't have to defend him Share, he can do that if he likes. If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. What he gets out of it is beyond me. Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, I think Judy and turq also repeat themselves. True, not as much as Richard does. But I think he has redeeming qualities too, as do they. I guess it's just a matter of the fact that we all get triggered by different stuff. On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:42 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: LOL, I don't know, I just get sucked in against all my better judgement. Maybe deep down I think he'll listen but after all these years maybe not. As he himself says, thoughts can't affect his mind... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : Why the hell do you bother, Salyavin? I was actually hoping you'd come out and say that you'd never got anything from meditating and was asking a genuine question. Or maybe you just did that? Anyways, that'd be funny if you'd been doing it wrong your whole life and never gotten anything - explain a lot too. But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. But you've managed to waste another 5 minutes of my one and only precious life so I guess that's your mission accomplished. Trolls, go figure ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 11:36 AM, salyavin808 wrote: What's the point of you? What do you get out of this, I can think of a trillion things I'd rather be doing than talking crap on an internet forum. I just don't get why anyone would bother, and for decades. Why don't you just STFU? If you don't want to dance, why did you come to the dance party? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Hey Richard, I like the pictures you've posted of yourself. My favorite was the one from when you worked as a reporter, (if I have that right) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Look at it as helping him realise that he needs to modify his approach if he wants to be taken seriously. So, why would I want to be taking you seriously - you're just another anonymous poster. But, your contributions should be able to stand on their own without any comment from me, pro or con. So, far you've been an interesting read, but I'm not sure why you're not interested in discussing spiritual paths, music, or any of the other 10,000 topics I've posted to FFL. Go figure. But like most people here he's old enough to have decided the sort of face he wants to present to the world. Go figure. Well, I always put my best face forward - but you didn't post a photo of your face. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:21 PM, Share Long wrote: True, not as much as Richard does. Maybe they don't need as much spiritual help as I do, Share. They want us to think they have everything all figured out, but they really suck as spiritual teachers. This thread is a case in point - instead of telling us how to overcome our spiritual doubts, they try to turn the whole debate into a conversation about Richard. Go figure. We are the Materialists, one of the ancient schools of Indian Philosophy, founded by our founder, Brihaspati and our tradition is very old. We have always existed, and we will exist at the end of time. Our texts have been lost, so we offer this manifesto: We believe in four elements. Direct perception is the only valid means of knowledge. We reject inference as a leap in the dark. Verbal testimony is a lie. Earth, water, fire, and air are reality. Consciousness is a product of the elements and the senses are the by-product of matter. There is no other world and no individual soul: death is liberation. There is no returning here again. The three authors of the Vedas were clowns, buffoons, and knaves. Eat, drink and be merry. Pleasure is a fact, desired by all. No pleasure should be neglected. After all, man is an animal, and satisfaction is as natural as life itself. Our motto is emphasize the substance, ignore the shadows. Enjoyment is the true end of human existence.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 12:59 PM, salyavin808 wrote: Assuming you aren't joking: It's not about length of time spent posting, it's about the Chinese water torture of Tricky dicky's endless repetition. There's just pleasing you people sometimes. You sound like an information junkie. Have you ever heard of Yahoo Groups Message View? It's not complicated. Nobody is forcing you to read any of these messages. Go figure. Yes, I should ignore it but I can't help getting sucked in. Won't happen again. That's what happens when you get brain-washed in a cult - you lose the ability to make your own decisions. According to Barry, this is the result of you having been under the mind-control of a cult - you've been in a trance-induction state for years. It may take you and Barry years in cult recovery, just to be able to have a serious debate on a discussion board. It's not complicated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 12:44 PM, Share Long wrote: salyavin, usually I find you pretty fair minded in your posts. But not so much this time. What about the at least 2 other people who have been posting for decades? They get a pass from you about that? Only Richard is guilty?! Now this is really funny - I can't hold a candle to all the thousands and thousands of messages posted by Judy and Barry since 1996 - about Judy and Barry. There must be 50,000 internet posts by these two since they started. If you doubt what I'm saying just go and do a simple search - and key in: IF judy THEN barry ELSE liar and see what you get. They are at the top of the Google Search. Now that's quite an accomplishment!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 12:37 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Why the hell do you /bother/, Salyavin? Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to. You should realize, Judy, that this is about as close to a spiritual practice as some people get in an average day. The least you could do is try to be helpful to people seeking spiritual help - you don't have to be a junkyard dog - it's your choice.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 12:34 PM, salyavin808 wrote: But I guess you actually do know that some words - or the way they are used - hold wonders for the human mind, but instead you just want to dance about it and ask obtuse questions like I'd want to go along and argue the toss about nothing. Don't be so upset - many people are unable to define what it is they do when they meditate, even after many years of meditation practice. meditation –noun 1 to think calm thoughts in order to relax or as a religious activity: Sophie meditates for 20 minutes every day. 2 to think seriously about something for a long time: He meditated on the consequences of his decision. Source: Cambridge University Dictionary: http://tinyurl.com/dz5ut2
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 1:36 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: The other day Share asked him a couple of perfectly reasonable questions about something he'd written. He quoted the two questions, and underneath each of them typed in a paragraph that had /nothing whatsoever to do/ with what she'd asked him. Hard to believe. It was perfectly clear to me and it wasn't complicated. You must be getting senile. If you didn't understand, why not just ask me about it instead of attacking Share like junkyard dog. When you attack Share for no apparent reason, it makes you look like a mean, old nasty bitch. It's not a very pleasant sight - it's hard to believe you'd be so petty. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 2:00 PM, salyavin808 wrote: If he wants to carry on and be ignored by 99% of the people here that's up to him. Thank God I'm ignored by 99% of the other informants posting here - that would be about a total of five or six people. Thanks for not feeding it. What he gets out of it is beyond me People have questions - you've got the answers. But, my job is is to question answers. I'd rather be biking! = __o \`, = (*) % (*) ~
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 10:49 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Had nothing to do with your lie about Hillary, Richard. I've always found you an excruciatingly boring troll. You need to stop the lying, Judy. Calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives that are impossible to determine. The term troll is highly subjective, and some posts will look like trolling to some while seeming like meaningful contributions to others. But, almost everyone knows for a fact that Bill and Hillary Clinton are liars. I'm sorry if that upset you, but it's the truth. It's not complicated. They don't call her Judge Judy for nothing, Share. She makes the local junkyard dog look like a kitten in comparison. Back in 2000 when I started posting to Google Groups - I must have posted thousands of on-topic messages trying to get a dialog going. Judy didn't have one single comment to post in reply for at least five years. Then one day I called Hillary Clinton a liar, and it's true, but ever since then she has been trying to get others to shun me. But, it didn't work and now she is exposed as the person she is: small-minded, prejudiced, judgemental, petty and nit-picky and old and very cranky, to say the least. Now it looks like Judy is just plain JELLOS. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/9/2014 10:44 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Watching you pander to Share is almost as stupefying as watching her pander to Richard or Barry. Watching Judy get JELLOS of Steve and Share is priceless! Now, if I can just strike up a conversation with Barry. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
While your approach to this is rational, Salyavin, I think you have to remember that you're not dealing with rational people. They're ANGRY at Shuvender Sem, and want to see him PAY. Not for the murder, but for revealing once and for all that the ME is a lie. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer I disagree, he seems to be lecturing on ways to cope with schizophrenia. From his webpage: Shubi’s first-hand experience with paranoid schizophrenia has given the medical community fresh eyes on how to define and promote mental health. His nationally renowned struggle with mental health and his subsequent exploration of the science behind schizophrenia has made him insightful in the field. He now spends his time speaking to law enforcement agencies, universities, and community organizations on how to best understand, work with, and support individuals suffering from mental illness. His speeches are designed to give the public insight into mental illness and institutionalization. Rather than focusing on medical terminology, these presentations explore Shubi’s unique experience and recount what it is like to suffer, to work hard day after day to regain health, and to ultimately recover. Which is all for the best. So he's not really making money from the MUM murder. Sad as it is, a verdict of not guilty by way of insanity means there is no doubt he wasn't responsible. Psychosis is highly disturbing for the person experiencing it and involves a complete break with reality. However hard it is for friends and family to stomach, some people really are not to blame for what they do. It's an extremely rare verdict actually, a lot of murders try it to get put in hospital rather than prison but the jury is unconvinced, this guy must have been in a terrible state for even the prosecution to agree. As it is we don't know how he copes personally with the guilt of what he did. Probably in the book. I've known schizophrenics and if they even remember what happened to them during an episode it's like living in a nightmare where they have no control over what happens to them and just have to try and cope later. A shattering of your sense of reality must be the most disconcerting experience and probably the hardest to get over as you can't really trust reality ever again. Maybe we should be applauding this guy for trying to make it easier for others? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
MUM, the TMO, and the TM movement had two main areas of culpability with respect to this man and the incident: 1) there's a pervasive attitude that TM cures all ills and that all forms of medication can be reduced by doing TM (the MUM homepage even had a banner proclaiming it during the incident); 2) there's a circle the wagons attitude to try and protect the organization, the technique and the mystique that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's attitudes towards ever aspect of life can't possibly be wrong in even the tiniest iota. Those two things together brought about this tragedy: The kid grew to believe that he could go off his meds without telling anyone because he believed that TM was all he needed because that was what everyone else around him believed as well. No-one was willing to alert anyone in authority that he was showing signs of instability, and when his actions became so extreme that there was no way to deny that something was seriously wrong, the Powers that Be still chose to try to deny that they needed to turn to outside help. The result was a murder, and two simultaneous lawsuits that nearly bankrupt MUM -one from the family of the murder victim, and one from the family of the murderer. Only now are they recovering from the financial fallout, from what I can tell. A similar story lies behind the recent violence at the pundit compound. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : MUM, the TMO, and the TM movement had two main areas of culpability with respect to this man and the incident: 1) there's a pervasive attitude that TM cures all ills and that all forms of medication can be reduced by doing TM (the MUM homepage even had a banner proclaiming it during the incident); 2) there's a circle the wagons attitude to try and protect the organization, the technique and the mystique that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's attitudes towards ever aspect of life can't possibly be wrong in even the tiniest iota. Those two things together brought about this tragedy: The kid grew to believe that he could go off his meds without telling anyone because he believed that TM was all he needed because that was what everyone else around him believed as well. No-one was willing to alert anyone in authority that he was showing signs of instability, and when his actions became so extreme that there was no way to deny that something was seriously wrong, the Powers that Be still chose to try to deny that they needed to turn to outside help. The result was a murder, and two simultaneous lawsuits that nearly bankrupt MUM -one from the family of the murder victim, and one from the family of the murderer. Only now are they recovering from the financial fallout, from what I can tell. It's a shocking story from every angle. I hope some sort of lesson got learned at MUM. Obviously the TMO still keeps up it's pretence of perfection but everyone should have learned something about mental health and the limits of meditating. It isn't going to fix things like this and is likely to make them worse. I've seen it myself a couple of times. No one got hurt, the sufferers just got sent into the care of the health service. A similar story lies behind the recent violence at the pundit compound. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One Man's Escape from Insanity' is the story of Shuvender Sem, who, 10 years later, we are now going to pretend that on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer' to sell more books. Maybe it covers this, but here is also an interesting story about how some people with latent psychosis are adversely affected by TM and the TMSP. I've known a couple myself. Maybe they do too much, maybe they would have had a breakdown anyway, but they say that about those people who are insane after a hit of LSD. Some things open unconscious wounds and we all know that TM is much more than just a relaxation technique. But it's impossible to say for sure. I think it's just hopelessly ineffective with deep psychological problems, a bit of seratonin goes a long way but it isn't a cure all. But I seem to remember some research claiming that TM lowers psychotic succeptability, didn't help a friend of mine and the people in the TMO had no way of dealing with it which I seem to remember was the main problem at MUM. Most interesting aspect of it for cult watchers was the news blackout, a murder on campus didn't even make the student newspaper! I'm all for global good news but that was sinister, our very own Bob Brigante commented that it's like living in North Korea. ---In FairfieldLife
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. I repeat my contention about not dealing with rational people. Nabby goes on to make excuses for Shuvender Sem (and, conveniently, for the TMO), while wanting revenge against Michael for merely quoting a line from the PR blurb he reposted. Nabby is clearly not the *least* bit upset about the murder. He's upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect as the lie it always was, and the defenders of it as the liars they always were. The larger issue he will never deal with is WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? According to official TM press releases and dogma, this is simply not possible. And yet it happened. Rather than deal with this, and the fact that it provides convincing proof that the ME is and always was a lie, Nabby would prefer to shoot (or in this case, sue) the messenger. What a classic cultist he is, and what a waste of human life. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions and others who may feel they can benefit from his story. The self-told story of Shuvender Sem, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity is available at http://www.ShuvenderSem.com/ . The book is available in paperback; as well as Kindle, iPad and Nook digital editions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
14,827 were murdered in the USA last year, that's 4,7 pr 100.000 people. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain. That's more worrying than one murder in Fairfield or what one retarded poster to an obscure blog is capable of doing in RL.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
14,827 were murdered in the USA last year, that's 4,7 pr 100.000 people. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain. That's more worrying than one murder in Fairfield or what one retarded poster, to an obscure blog run by an administrator happy to let it remain un-moderated, is capable of doing in RL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. I repeat my contention about not dealing with rational people. Nabby goes on to make excuses for Shuvender Sem (and, conveniently, for the TMO), while wanting revenge against Michael for merely quoting a line from the PR blurb he reposted. Nabby is clearly not the *least* bit upset about the murder. He's upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect as the lie it always was, and the defenders of it as the liars they always were. The larger issue he will never deal with is WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? According to official TM press releases and dogma, this is simply not possible. And yet it happened. Rather than deal with this, and the fact that it provides convincing proof that the ME is and always was a lie, Nabby would prefer to shoot (or in this case, sue) the messenger. What a classic cultist he is, and what a waste of human life. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
So the countries with the highest percentage of TMers - and living in coherence creating groups - have the highest murder rate? Fascinating. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : 14,827 were murdered in the USA last year, that's 4,7 pr 100.000 people. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain. That's more worrying than one murder in Fairfield or what one retarded poster, to an obscure blog run by an administrator happy to let it remain un-moderated, is capable of doing in RL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. I repeat my contention about not dealing with rational people. Nabby goes on to make excuses for Shuvender Sem (and, conveniently, for the TMO), while wanting revenge against Michael for merely quoting a line from the PR blurb he reposted. Nabby is clearly not the *least* bit upset about the murder. He's upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect as the lie it always was, and the defenders of it as the liars they always were. The larger issue he will never deal with is WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? According to official TM press releases and dogma, this is simply not possible. And yet it happened. Rather than deal with this, and the fact that it provides convincing proof that the ME is and always was a lie, Nabby would prefer to shoot (or in this case, sue) the messenger. What a classic cultist he is, and what a waste of human life. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I think you are right about that - I thought the UK press had dubbed him the Maharishi Murderer but I may be incorrect On Tue, 4/8/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 2:28 AM This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was pretty surprised too - I think if he just said that he had mental problems and this is how he dealt with it, that would be one thing, but using the handle that apparently was given him by the press is capitalizing on what he did - not the first killer to do so, but opportunistic I think. I wonder if the Butler family knows he is doing this? Wonder what happened to the guy he got the knife from, Joel Wysong? Did MUM censure him for poor judgement at all? Another interesting thing that I got from an article about this is former MUM professor Dr Kai Druhl. I looked him up online and see that he has a TM story to tell - after years of TM and being governor and MUM faculty, he jumped ship and has very little good to say about TM - he's a born again Christian. This is what he said about MUM at the time of the murder Dr Kai Druhl taught physics at the university for 13 years. He has since left to teach at a college 20 miles away after becoming disenchanted with the movement. He said: 'There were certainly initial benefits for some of the students but the promise of complete enlightenment is just not true ... it just doesn't happen and I saw how this intense meditation can damage some students, particularly if they have mental problems.' Druhl recalled a student with schizophrenia being told to come off his medication, as meditation along with a herbal remedy would cure him. The student had a major breakdown. Druhl described a culture where such events were treated as 'top secret'. He said: 'There was a definite understanding between staff members that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
When I was at MIU there was a kid, I forget how old, I think around 11 or 12 maybe who came onto campus riding his bike I think right around dark. He entered campus on the lower entrance and the MIU security had put a chain across the entrance to keep people from coming in by automobile. Trouble was, they had put no flags or other identifying markers on the chain and in fog or after dark it was very hard to see it till you were right up on it. The kid hit the chain, fell off his bike and sustained injuries such that he was paralyzed. The doctors said he would not recover and would be paralyzed for life. Facing a lifetime of medical bills and dealing with that type of injury the parents chose to sue the university for not having made the chain easy to see and thereby easier to avoid hitting. I remember hearing one faculty member telling one of the kitchen staff it was so unfortunate that the parents were behaving so badly as to sue MIU and they were accruing some really bad karma. On Tue, 4/8/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 9:04 AM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : MUM, the TMO, and the TM movement had two main areas of culpability with respect to this man and the incident: 1) there's a pervasive attitude that TM cures all ills and that all forms of medication can be reduced by doing TM (the MUM homepage even had a banner proclaiming it during the incident); 2) there's a circle the wagons attitude to try and protect the organization, the technique and the mystique that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's attitudes towards ever aspect of life can't possibly be wrong in even the tiniest iota. Those two things together brought about this tragedy: The kid grew to believe that he could go off his meds without telling anyone because he believed that TM was all he needed because that was what everyone else around him believed as well. No-one was willing to alert anyone in authority that he was showing signs of instability, and when his actions became so extreme that there was no way to deny that something was seriously wrong, the Powers that Be still chose to try to deny that they needed to turn to outside help. The result was a murder, and two simultaneous lawsuits that nearly bankrupt MUM -one from the family of the murder victim, and one from the family of the murderer. Only now are they recovering from the financial fallout, from what I can tell. It's a shocking story from every angle. I hope some sort of lesson got learned at MUM. Obviously the TMO still keeps up it's pretence of perfection but everyone should have learned something about mental health and the limits of meditating. It isn't going to fix things like this and is likely to make them worse. I've seen it myself a couple of times. No one got hurt, the sufferers just got sent into the care of the health service. A similar story lies behind the recent violence at the pundit compound. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's probably worth noting that the blurb Michael posted here is *NOT* from Sem himself, and the title of the book is *NOT* The Maharishi Murderer. The blurb was written by a part-timer at the book PR agency Sem or the publisher hired to stir up interest in the book, SEND2PRESS. Yes, well spotted. I saw only the sensational aspect through my bleary morning eyes. On the other hand, the Maharishi Murderer *IS* exactly what he was. What makes such PR excess possible are the extravagant (and clearly untrue) claims made by MUM about what an ideal society it represents, and how violence and crime simply can't exist inside the awesome Field Of Woo generated by the domes. When you've made claims like that and then had them proved untrue, *of course* you pretend the event never happened in your campus newspapers. Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. I think the excess of hyperbole in the TMO is always going to be a problem. Words like ideal and invincible are all very well but it's all rather easily disproved. Somehow, terms like Same as everywhere else or We're only as good as the people who come and stay aren't going to be such a big draw. But they won't backfire either... From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:39 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer Sounds like an interesting book. Shame about the appalling title. I think the tagline should read: One
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Good one Sal! On Tue, 4/8/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 10:55 AM So the countries with the highest percentage of TMers - and living in coherence creating groups - have the highest murder rate? Fascinating. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : 14,827 were murdered in the USA last year, that's 4,7 pr 100.000 people. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain.That's more worrying than one murder in Fairfield or what one retarded poster, to an obscure blog run by an administrator happy to let it remain un-moderated, is capable of doing in RL. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. I repeat my contention about not dealing with rational people. Nabby goes on to make excuses for Shuvender Sem (and, conveniently, for the TMO), while wanting revenge against Michael for merely quoting a line from the PR blurb he reposted. Nabby is clearly not the *least* bit upset about the murder. He's upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect as the lie it always was, and the defenders of it as the liars they always were. The larger issue he will never deal with is WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? According to official TM press releases and dogma, this is simply not possible. And yet it happened. Rather than deal with this, and the fact that it provides convincing proof that the ME is and always was a lie, Nabby would prefer to shoot (or in this case, sue) the messenger. What a classic cultist he is, and what a waste of human life. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
how could they sue me? I didn't make the title up. On Tue, 4/8/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 9:19 AM With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions and others who may feel they can benefit from his story. The self-told story of Shuvender Sem, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity is available at http://www.ShuvenderSem.com/ . The book is available in paperback; as well as Kindle, iPad and Nook digital editions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/7/2014 8:41 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I also have to point out that he is not the only one to be doing TM regularly and commit a crime - fraud, sex crimes, murder and attempted murder. And I don't think it can all be laid at the door of they had an underlying mental imbalance before they started doing TM esp in the case of someone who was doing TM regularly for years before the crimes were committed. Add to that the number of long term TM'ers who committed suicide and attempted to commit suicide and the pic is not so nice. So, what are the statistics - how many people started TM and how many fraud, sex-crimes, murder and suicide were committed since 1955? From what I've read millions of people have tried TM and we know of one murder and maybe a few frauds, but how many events can be directly caused by practicing the TM basic meditation? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/8/2014 7:17 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think you are right about that You got to work really early today!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/8/2014 2:04 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. This is funny - Barry probably never set foot on the MUM campus, or even the campus in Vlodrop, NE where Barry lived for years. Go figure. Even funnier is that Barry wants to speak for those who are actually on the MUM campus and posting here now. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 4/8/2014 2:04 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Many of the people on campus (and the TBs here) are still busy pretending it never happened in their own minds. This is funny - Barry probably never set foot on the MUM campus, or even the campus in Vlodrop, NE where Barry lived for years. Go figure. Even funnier is that Barry wants to speak for those who are actually on the MUM campus and posting here now. Go figure. C'mon Richard, you and I both know Bawwy knows everything that's worth knowing. He is the pulse upon which we must all place our finger if we want to know the skinny on any subject. His is the last word, the first word, the word in the middle. He needs us, without his audience he ceases to exist. Now, behave and don't talk back to him - he doesn't like it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/8/2014 2:17 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: While your approach to this is rational, Salyavin, I think you have to remember that you're not dealing with rational people. We are not dealing with rational people - if they were rational, they wouldn't murder students at school. They're ANGRY at Shuvender Sem, and want to see him PAY. Well, I guess they are angry and that's why they filed the law suits against Sem and MUM. Go figure. Not for the murder, but for revealing once and for all that the ME is a lie. You sound confused - the family of the victim is angry for revealing that the ME is a lie? You're not even making any sense today.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
On 4/8/2014 4:35 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? Now this is not funny - Barry's guru was into the powerful Woo Woo, up to, and including the day he committed suicide and killed himself, and almost killed his date, instead of seeking professional help. WTF went wrong with the supposed American Buddhism that a spiritual teacher like Lenz was seen floating, instead of levitating over a lake? It doesn't even make any sense. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Where, exactly, Barry, does Nabby make excuses for Shuvender Sem and for the TMO? I couldn't find that part of his post. Could you quote it for us, please? Unless, of course, it was just your fantasy. After all, the notion that Nabby would be upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect is just Barry's fantasy as well. He's imagining, apparently, that Sem's book is about to explode into national bestsellerdom. He seems to have failed to notice that the PR blurb Michael posted is dated February 2013, more than a year ago. The book itself was published (self-published via Amazon's CreateSpace) in September 2012. And its current Amazon bestseller rank is #2,222,248. Oopsie. With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. I repeat my contention about not dealing with rational people. Nabby goes on to make excuses for Shuvender Sem (and, conveniently, for the TMO), while wanting revenge against Michael for merely quoting a line from the PR blurb he reposted. Nabby is clearly not the *least* bit upset about the murder. He's upset that a new round of publicity is going to begin exposing the Maharishi Effect as the lie it always was, and the defenders of it as the liars they always were. The larger issue he will never deal with is WTF went wrong with the supposed ME that a student 'doing program' as he was told to do in the exact dead center of all of this powerful Woo Woo went off and killed someone? According to official TM press releases and dogma, this is simply not possible. And yet it happened. Rather than deal with this, and the fact that it provides convincing proof that the ME is and always was a lie, Nabby would prefer to shoot (or in this case, sue) the messenger. What a classic cultist he is, and what a waste of human life. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Good catch, feste, that bit about Sem now seeming to boast about being a murderer when he was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I guess he really wants his book to be a bestseller which is understandable. But really?! On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:28 PM, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was pretty surprised too - I think if he just said that he had mental problems and this is how he dealt with it, that would be one thing, but using the handle that apparently was given him by the press is capitalizing on what he did - not the first killer to do so, but opportunistic I think. I wonder if the Butler family knows he is doing this? Wonder what happened to the guy he got the knife from, Joel Wysong? Did MUM censure him for poor judgement at all? Another interesting thing that I got from an article about this is former MUM professor Dr Kai Druhl. I looked him up online and see that he has a TM story to tell - after years of TM and being governor and MUM faculty, he jumped ship and has very little good to say about TM - he's a born again Christian. This is what he said about MUM at the time of the murder Dr Kai Druhl taught physics at the university for 13 years. He has since left to teach at a college 20 miles away after becoming disenchanted with the movement. He said: 'There were certainly initial benefits for some of the students but the promise of complete enlightenment is just not true ... it just doesn't happen and I saw how this intense meditation can damage some students, particularly if they have mental problems.' Druhl recalled a student with schizophrenia being told to come off his medication, as meditation along with a herbal remedy would cure him. The student had a major breakdown. Druhl described a culture where such events were treated as 'top secret'. He said: 'There was a definite understanding between staff members that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
I don't get that he was boasting about it. But he did murder the guy and not guilty by way of insanity is obviously the correct decision as it wasn't premeditated or deliberate. Insanity is a legal term which means you aren't responsible for your actions. You would only be right in objecting to him writing about it in a book about schizophrenia if you think he faked it to get a shorter jail term. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Good catch, feste, that bit about Sem now seeming to boast about being a murderer when he was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I guess he really wants his book to be a bestseller which is understandable. But really?! On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:28 PM, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was pretty surprised too - I think if he just said that he had mental problems and this is how he dealt with it, that would be one thing, but using the handle that apparently was given him by the press is capitalizing on what he did - not the first killer to do so, but opportunistic I think. I wonder if the Butler family knows he is doing this? Wonder what happened to the guy he got the knife from, Joel Wysong? Did MUM censure him for poor judgement at all? Another interesting thing that I got from an article about this is former MUM professor Dr Kai Druhl. I looked him up online and see that he has a TM story to tell - after years of TM and being governor and MUM faculty, he jumped ship and has very little good to say about TM - he's a born again Christian. This is what he said about MUM at the time of the murder Dr Kai Druhl taught physics at the university for 13 years. He has since left to teach at a college 20 miles away after becoming disenchanted with the movement. He said: 'There were certainly initial benefits for some of the students but the promise of complete enlightenment is just not true ... it just doesn't happen and I saw how this intense meditation can damage some students, particularly if they have mental problems.' Druhl recalled a student with schizophrenia being told to come off his medication, as meditation along with a herbal remedy would cure him. The student had a major breakdown. Druhl described a culture where such events were treated as 'top secret'. He said: 'There was a definite understanding between staff members that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer . . . He [ Barry, the messenger Judy wants desperately to shoot any way she can ] seems to have failed to notice that the PR blurb Michael posted is dated February 2013, more than a year ago. The book itself was published (self-published via Amazon's CreateSpace) in September 2012. And its current Amazon bestseller rank is #2,222,248. Indeed I did fail to notice that. As for its popularity, I merely point out that it's doing much better on Amazon than Scientific Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program: Collected Papers, Vol. 1, which has a ranking of #3,414,634, even though it's now available used for around $6, considerably discounted from its original price of $78.28. :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Don't worry MJ, the TMO would not sue someone with obvious and serious mental issues in need of medication. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : how could they sue me? I didn't make the title up. On Tue, 4/8/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 9:19 AM With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions and others who may feel they can benefit from his story. The self-told story of Shuvender Sem, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity is available at http://www.ShuvenderSem.com/ http://www.ShuvenderSem.com/ . The book is available in paperback; as well as Kindle, iPad and Nook digital editions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Sem is a murderer de facto. He's just not a murderer de jure, i.e., not legally guilty of murder. So of course there's no contradiction there. I'm not sure how Feste could catch, without having read the book, that Sem is boasting about anything other than, perhaps, his apparent recovery from paranoid schizophrenia (for which, I should think, one would want to congratulate him). Any ideas, Share? Or should we just ignore your Good catch comment as your usual pandering? Do you plan to buy the book and read it, BTW? Feste, if you were concerned that Sem is going to make pots and pots of money off the book, you can relax. He published it himself through Amazon's CreateSpace (which runs off one copy at a time as the book is ordered). Given its sales there to date, it doesn't look like it's going to make a big profit (and he had to pay for an editor and then a press agent). Also, one of the three Amazon reader reviewers apparently knows Sem and tells us that he doesn't charge for speaking to various groups, so he's not making any money there either. If anyone is interested, you can read the first chapter on Amazon's Web site (or download it to your Kindle) by going to the Kindle page for the book: http://tinyurl.com/mqdornl http://tinyurl.com/mqdornl The first chapter is just background about his childhood, nothing juicy. Good catch, feste, that bit about Sem now seeming to boast about being a murderer when he was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I guess he really wants his book to be a bestseller which is understandable. But really?! This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
salyavin, probably his book publicist thought up that phrase. But that would mean that Sem agreed for that phrase to be used, doesn't it? I'm not familiar with how much control an author has over the selling of his or her book and all the various steps included in that process. As for his faking it, I don't know enough about schizophrenia to know if that is even possible to fake. But I do know some of the details about what transpired between his first stabbing and the second one which was fatal. Knowing those details, questions arise in my mind. But the justice system has already spoken so that's that. If his book helps some people, than that's good. I think it's good when something beneficial can come even out of such a horrible tragedy. On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 9:41 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't get that he was boasting about it. But he did murder the guy and not guilty by way of insanity is obviously the correct decision as it wasn't premeditated or deliberate. Insanity is a legal term which means you aren't responsible for your actions. You would only be right in objecting to him writing about it in a book about schizophrenia if you think he faked it to get a shorter jail term. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Good catch, feste, that bit about Sem now seeming to boast about being a murderer when he was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I guess he really wants his book to be a bestseller which is understandable. But really?! On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:28 PM, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was pretty surprised too - I think if he just said that he had mental problems and this is how he dealt with it, that would be one thing, but using the handle that apparently was given him by the press is capitalizing on what he did - not the first killer to do so, but opportunistic I think. I wonder if the Butler family knows he is doing this? Wonder what happened to the guy he got the knife from, Joel Wysong? Did MUM censure him for poor judgement at all? Another interesting thing that I got from an article about this is former MUM professor Dr Kai Druhl. I looked him up online and see that he has a TM story to tell - after years of TM and being governor and MUM faculty, he jumped ship and has very little good to say about TM - he's a born again Christian. This is what he said about MUM at the time of the murder Dr Kai Druhl taught physics at the university for 13 years. He has since left to teach at a college 20 miles away after becoming disenchanted with the movement. He said: 'There were certainly initial benefits for some of the students but the promise of complete enlightenment is just not true ... it just doesn't happen and I saw how this intense meditation can damage some students, particularly if they have mental problems.' Druhl recalled a student with schizophrenia being told to come off his medication, as meditation along with a herbal remedy would cure him. The student had a major breakdown. Druhl described a culture where such events were treated as 'top secret'. He said: 'There was a definite understanding between staff members that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer I don't get that he was boasting about it. But he did murder the guy and not guilty by way of insanity is obviously the correct decision as it wasn't premeditated or deliberate. Insanity is a legal term which means you aren't responsible for your actions. You would only be right in objecting to him writing about it in a book about schizophrenia if you think he faked it to get a shorter jail term. Which would be more damning of the supposed Maharishi Effect? Being insane and having no one at the university you're attending notice because you didn't seem all that different than the other weird students, or being sane and faking being insane, to get away with committing a murder right there at Ground Zero of all the Invincibility and Peace-Maintaining vibes created by the Wonderful Woo Woo of the ME? For the record, I don't have any feelings about Sem either way, except to feel sorry for him for many reasons. I just love watching the TBs react and go into fits of shoot the messenger whenever Michael posts one of these articles. So far, Feste wants to shoot Sem, Nabby wants to shoot Michael (or at the very least sue him), and Judy (of course) wants to diss Barry. TB True Business as usual. And as usual, none of them are discussing the real issue -- what this murder says about the supposed Maharishi Effect, and its rather colossal failure in this case. Besides, I love that Sem's book is outselling the Collected Papers. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Good catch, feste, that bit about Sem now seeming to boast about being a murderer when he was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity. I guess he really wants his book to be a bestseller which is understandable. But really?! On Monday, April 7, 2014 9:28 PM, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: This whole tragic incident was discussed extensively on FFL at the time it happened. I never heard the phrase The Maharishi Murderer. I think Sem has just made it up to get publicity for his book. I also find it regrettable that he uses the word murder in the title. It's as if he is laughing at the justice system. After all, he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, but now he wants to boast about being a murderer. Disgusting. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I was pretty surprised too - I think if he just said that he had mental problems and this is how he dealt with it, that would be one thing, but using the handle that apparently was given him by the press is capitalizing on what he did - not the first killer to do so, but opportunistic I think. I wonder if the Butler family knows he is doing this? Wonder what happened to the guy he got the knife from, Joel Wysong? Did MUM censure him for poor judgement at all? Another interesting thing that I got from an article about this is former MUM professor Dr Kai Druhl. I looked him up online and see that he has a TM story to tell - after years of TM and being governor and MUM faculty, he jumped ship and has very little good to say about TM - he's a born again Christian. This is what he said about MUM at the time of the murder Dr Kai Druhl taught physics at the university for 13 years. He has since left to teach at a college 20 miles away after becoming disenchanted with the movement. He said: 'There were certainly initial benefits for some of the students but the promise of complete enlightenment is just not true ... it just doesn't happen and I saw how this intense meditation can damage some students, particularly if they have mental problems.' Druhl recalled a student with schizophrenia being told to come off his medication, as meditation along with a herbal remedy would cure him. The student had a major breakdown. Druhl described a culture where such events were treated as 'top secret'. He said: 'There was a definite understanding between staff members that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
You've never quite understood the phrase shoot the messenger. It assumes that the messenger himself is not responsible for the message and thus is being shot unfairly. Obviously that isn't the case with you; you bring knowingly false messages of your own devising all the time, and you are therefore held accountable for them. Note in this current message, you've ignored my question about where Nabby tried to excuse Sem or the TMO (he didn't do either in that post, contrary to your claim). But you're still responsible for the falsehood, so I'm shooting you again. See how that works? And as for your lame response here, I don't think you would have claimed the Collected Works--published in 1976--would have been likely to begin a new round of publicity exposing the Maharishi Effect. So that is one of your non sequiturs calculated to distract attention from another of your bloopers. You get shot for that as well. As I've pointed out, that you are unable to be straightforward in your criticisms of the TMO, Maharishi, and TMers, but always feel compelled to enhance the facts with exaggerations, distortions, and outright lies, tells us that you're afraid the unvarnished truth isn't really all that bad. He [ Barry, the messenger Judy wants desperately to shoot any way she can ] seems to have failed to notice that the PR blurb Michael posted is dated February 2013, more than a year ago. The book itself was published (self-published via Amazon's CreateSpace) in September 2012. And its current Amazon bestseller rank is #2,222,248. Indeed I did fail to notice that. As for its popularity, I merely point out that it's doing much better on Amazon than Scientific Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program: Collected Papers, Vol. 1, which has a ranking of #3,414,634, even though it's now available used for around $6, considerably discounted from its original price of $78.28. :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer I don't get that he was boasting about it. But he did murder the guy and not guilty by way of insanity is obviously the correct decision as it wasn't premeditated or deliberate. Insanity is a legal term which means you aren't responsible for your actions. You would only be right in objecting to him writing about it in a book about schizophrenia if you think he faked it to get a shorter jail term. Which would be more damning of the supposed Maharishi Effect? Being insane and having no one at the university you're attending notice because you didn't seem all that different than the other weird students, or being sane and faking being insane, to get away with committing a murder right there at Ground Zero of all the Invincibility and Peace-Maintaining vibes created by the Wonderful Woo Woo of the ME? For the record, I don't have any feelings about Sem either way, except to feel sorry for him for many reasons. I just love watching the TBs react and go into fits of shoot the messenger whenever Michael posts one of these articles. So far, Feste wants to shoot Sem, Nabby wants to shoot Michael (or at the very least sue him), and Judy (of course) wants to diss Barry. TB True Business as usual. And as usual, none of them are discussing the real issue -- what this murder says about the supposed Maharishi Effect, and its rather colossal failure in this case. Besides, I love that Sem's book is outselling the Collected Papers. :-) Nobody's reacting, nobody's having fits. What is more interesting is why you love watching something you pretend is happening (but which isn't) and why you have such a simplistic idea of how life works. Anyone who thinks anything (the ME in this case) can eliminate the everyday occurrences in life is an idiot - you included. I mean, who actually believes something like the ME would mean that there are no more harsh words spoken, no job losses, no mental health issues or no deaths due to psychiatric illnesses? No one. So you are blowing smoke up your own ass when you go on and on about it. Can you ever not miss the point? Now that's all the time I can devote to you today Bawwy, maybe I'll see if there's something I can help you with tonight but I'm making no promises. You are such a slow learner, but I am nothing if not perseverant.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
that you must not allow any bad news to leak out. You were required to keep up this image of a perfect campus at all costs. On Mon, 4/7/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 7, 2014, 10:47 PM I find this utterly appalling and repellant. This man should not make money from the murder of Levi Butler. Whoever encouraged him to write this book and make himself available for lectures and God knows what should not have done so. This man should perform penance in private and be very humble about it. He was given a second chance; Levi got no chance at all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions and others who may feel they can benefit from his story. The self-told story of Shuvender Sem, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity is available at http://www.ShuvenderSem.com/ http://www.shuvendersem.com/ . The book is available in paperback; as well as Kindle, iPad and Nook digital editions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
Then you are totally safe!!! On Tue, 4/8/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 2:46 PM Don't worry MJ, the TMO would not sue someone with obvious and serious mental issues in need of medication. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : how could they sue me? I didn't make the title up. On Tue, 4/8/14, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 9:19 AM With a constructed title like that the TMO ought to sue Michael Jackson (!) from A to Z and back again. But probably they realize his mental problems are so profound that they won't bother. The USA might have different laws. In Europe seriously disturbed persons, or persons with an IQ below 50 are not liable for their actions and are sentenced to psychiatric wards. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : New Autobiography Gives Insight into Maharishi Murder Tue, 19 Feb 2013, 14:47:52 EDT Edited by Debra Tone LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. 'Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity' (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as 'The Maharishi Murderer.' LANCASTER, Pa., Feb. 19, 2013 (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- It is a story that could only be written by one person. A compelling autobiography that not only pushes the boundaries of sanity, it takes readers on a frightening voyage to meet it face-to-face. Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity (ISBN-13: 978-1479256969) is the story of Shuvender Sem, who on March 1, 2004 became known as The Maharishi Murderer. The murder took place in Fairfield, Iowa, on the campus of a university that prided itself on non-violence. The Maharishi University of Management used a variety of techniques towards its non-violent goals including twice-daily use of Transcendental Meditation. It was to no small degree that this setting put the murder in the national spotlight. In one moment Sem was a college student. In the next he was The Maharishi Murderer. Shuvender killed freshman Levi Butler without provocation on the campus by stabbing him four times in the chest with a paring knife. The murder took place following an incident earlier in the day when Sem stabbed a student with a pen. That previous incident led to the student getting seven stitches to his face. Deemed competent to stand trial, the judge ruled he was not guilty by reason of insanity at the request of both the defense and the prosecution. Against popular belief, NGRI is an extremely rare plea, used in less than one percent of criminal cases. A not guilty result is even more uncommon, occurring just one-quarter of one percent of the time. Now, after years of psychotropic medications and intense therapy, Shuvender is telling his story of schizophrenia in his autobiography, Murder and Misunderstanding; One Man's Escape from Insanity. It is not only an extremely rare look into the mind of a killer from his own perspective, but it is also a deeply personal story that explores the darkest, most grim places of the mind. Our mental health system is broken. We need to fix this before more crimes are committed, says Sem. In his book, Shuvender tells of his relationship with his father, and the events that led to that day on campus. He describes his struggle with, and eventual escape from this misunderstood illness. It is a story of recognition and realization. A story of redemption desired, and hope delivered. It is a book written to serve as a beacon for those with schizophrenia and their families, by a man who was held in its strongest grips, and managed to escape. Shuvender Sem, or Shubi as he is known, now speaks publicly about his experience with schizophrenia in the hopes of helping others. He is available for presentations and QA sessions for law enforcement, mental health groups, attorney associations, academic institutions
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
ha! That's a great statistic Barry! On Tue, 4/8/14, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 2:39 PM From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer . . . He [ Barry, the messenger Judy wants desperately to shoot any way she can ] seems to have failed to notice that the PR blurb Michael posted is dated February 2013, more than a year ago. The book itself was published (self-published via Amazon's CreateSpace) in September 2012. And its current Amazon bestseller rank is #2,222,248. Indeed I did fail to notice that. As for its popularity, I merely point out that it's doing much better on Amazon than Scientific Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program: Collected Papers, Vol. 1, which has a ranking of #3,414,634, even though it's now available used for around $6, considerably discounted from its original price of $78.28. :-) :-) :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Maharishi Murderer . . . He [ Barry, the messenger Judy wants desperately to shoot any way she can ] Bawwy, you are only a messenger to the degree that your messages hold any merit or truth. Until that time they are only so much dreck. seems to have failed to notice that the PR blurb Michael posted is dated February 2013, more than a year ago. The book itself was published (self-published via Amazon's CreateSpace) in September 2012. And its current Amazon bestseller rank is #2,222,248. Indeed I did fail to notice that. As for its popularity, I merely point out that it's doing much better on Amazon than Scientific Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program: Collected Papers, Vol. 1, which has a ranking of #3,414,634, even though it's now available used for around $6, considerably discounted from its original price of $78.28. :-) :-) :-)
