Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
Richard J. Williams wrote: >>> There was no mention of any angles at my first >>> introductory TM lecture by Jerry Jarvis in 1965 >>> at SIMS in Westwood. >>> >>> > Bhairitu wrote: > >> Is that what happens to beings living under bridges? >> >> > There's no "vertical descent" in transcending. > > "In the intro lecture we even described these dips or > the vertical descent." > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/169336 So they descend horizontally? ROTFLMAO! Not only do you need some smarts but a brain to put them in. The bubble diagram is an illustration of the experience. I'm not saying that the mantra goes literally vertical but in quick dips. But my experience when using a bij by itself is it takes a quick dip and that is most likely the experience of everyone here. The practice will produce a deepened state of consciousness. Longer mantras meander and slowly descend but also stay at that deeper state because they are longer. This is a very well known element of mantra shastra. OM centers. Try a bij with OM in front of it and you'll notice the experience is different. It's also important to note that some gurus use the term "bij mantra" as a reference to the guru mantra which is a different context than we are discussing here. What we probably should be saying is "bij akshara."
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
Go take a look at the bubble diagram again. Yes I was a Governor. You still haven't answered my other question. Why? And you didn't clearly state you were not a teacher. Why? Are you a coward? Is that what happens to beings living under bridges? Richard J. Williams wrote: >>> What TM teacher training course did you graduate from? >>> >>> > Bhairitu wrote: > >> Biarritz spring 1976. Now that I answered your question >> please tell which one you graduated from? >> >> > Is this some kind of trick question? > > >> If you had you would have heard the lecture on advanced >> techniques and the talk about the difference between the >> first and advanced. >> >> > I got my first advanced technique from Satyanand and my > second advanced technique from the Marshy himself. No mention > of any bija mantra angles. I was taught the A of E techniques > in 1975 on one of the first siddhi courses in Austin. The > A of E techniques were only taught on 3 or 4 courses and then > they were replaced by the TM-Sidhis. The A of E techniques > were supposed to bring on the siddhis. They involve putting > your attention systematically on different parts of the body > and then on different parts of the world and finally on the > universe. They are preceeded by fast pranayama. > > I've heard many talks about advanced techniques in Austin > in 1976, at the TM-Sidhi Center. There was no mention of > any bija mantra "angles". There was no mention of any angles > at my first introductory TM lecture by Jerry Jarvis in 1965 > at SIMS in Westwood. I've heard dozens of TM introductory > lectures since then and in none of them was a bija mantra > angle mentioned. There's no difference between the TM lecture > I heard and the ones that any other student hears. There is > nothing in the TM checking notes about any angles. > > >> Many teachers when asked about advanced techniques usually >> paraphrase from these lectures. You obviously aren't >> a teacher but like to pose as a "TM expert" which is very >> difficult to do unless you attended the TTCs >> >> > According to Vaj, this amounts to next to nothing! > > Face it, all you get in advanced techniques are a few Sankrit > words to add to your mantra - some fertilizer, that's it. No > new bija mantras, no angles. > > >> especially the later ones which were longer and more >> information provided (and for those who attended the quick >> early TTCs they got more info on their AofE courses). >> >> > Are you suggesting that you are a TM teacher of Advanced > Techniques? A Minister or a Governor? > > In TM you get only one single bija mantra. In advanced > techniques you get fertilizer words to add before and after > your bija mantra. There are no mantras or bijas in the > TM-Sidhi Program. > > "True about Willytex, however, I did notice much of what he > said seemed genuine and checked out accurately in my book, > with the exceptions I notedhe had an incredible amount > of info. and trivia, he may be extraordinary in this respect!" > - Willaim G. Murphy, Governor of the Age of Enlightenment > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
That's why I practice a school of village tantra. It is simple because people in villages didn't get expensive educations. For the modern person in our complex society the simpler these things are taught the better. I think many of the extrapolations which are complex appeal to people who worship complexity because it makes them feel secure. Larry wrote: > you're making this way too complicated, simplify, simplify, there's > nothing to this > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:33 PM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: >> >> >>> < Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks >>> in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can >>> prevent such full >>> awakening.> >>> >>> What exactly causes these alleged blocks? >>> >> Imbalanced kundalini risings which take "non-culminating" routes. >> Several people with vajra-nadi risings that I've spoken to. They >> believe "sidhi" cultivation has a lot to do with it. >> >> See http://www.kundalinicare.com/aboutkundalini3.html >> >> These people--a swami from the Saraswati order and his American >> lineholder--have spent a lot of time helping old TMers, including some >> higher-ups who skidaddled the TMO years ago. They also come to >> Fairfield from what I see every now and again. >> >> One letter from one of MMY's old close students, Earl Kaplan, is in >> the FFL archives. He seems to feel it was deliberate, but who knows? >> >> > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
Richard J. Williams wrote: > Bhairitu wrote: > >> What TM teacher training course did you graduate from? >> >> > You only need to attend one single TM introductory lecture > to know that there's no mantra "angle" mentioned. And you > only need one single advanced technique to know that you > only get one single bij mantra for TM practice. If you had > attended either of these you would already know this. > > What TM teacher training course did you graduate from? > Biarritz spring 1976. Now that I answered your question please tell which one you graduated from? If you had you would have heard the lecture on advanced techniques and the talk about the difference between the first and advanced. Many teachers when asked about advanced techniques usually paraphrase from these lectures. You obviously aren't a teacher but like to pose as a "TM expert" which is very difficult to do unless you attended the TTCs especially the later ones which were longer and more information provided (and for those who attended the quick early TTCs they got more info on their AofE courses). While we're at it please answer the other question I asked last week about what "war" we're fighting over in Iraq. How do you gauge if we're won that war? And isn't really an occupation?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
> the website looks like a great way to make a buck off gullible > spritual seekers. anything to prolong the process of enlightenment > or more importantly put the answers in someone else's hands, save > our own, eh Vaj? do you get a cut of the proceeds or free courses or > something? --Yeah, I mean, they might have good motivation, but throw money into the equation and that will always be questionable. I laughed hard because of all the varieties of kundalini. I mean, that's just patent bullshit. Either Kundalini is Ma - the Mother Adiparashakti, and She knows what to do, or else She doesn't and She's pointlessly confused, in which case there's no hope. The whole notion of controlling it is rather silly. Also all the mentions of higher powers and stuff is pretty far fetched. I mean, some siddhis happen, but mapping it out like it's a fait accompli is stupid. Finally, the ideas are old and have not been made into something palpable on modern pulses, so it's just basically another quaint Hindu con. Call me a cynic. But if I have problems with the power of awareness I put it back to awareness to deal with it. That's it! That's another way of saying just give up. That takes care of all blockages. Just give the fuck right up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:46 PM, sandiego108 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:33 PM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: > > > < Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks > > in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can > > prevent such full > > awakening.> > > > > What exactly causes these alleged blocks? > > > Imbalanced kundalini risings which take "non-culminating" routes. > Several people with vajra-nadi risings that I've spoken to. They > believe "sidhi" cultivation has a lot to do with it. > > See http://www.kundalinicare.com/aboutkundalini3.html > > These people--a swami from the Saraswati order and his American > lineholder--have spent a lot of time helping old TMers, including some > higher-ups who skidaddled the TMO years ago. They also come to > Fairfield from what I see every now and again. > > One letter from one of MMY's old close students, Earl Kaplan, is in > the FFL archives. He seems to feel it was deliberate, but who knows? > the website looks like a great way to make a buck off gullible spritual seekers. anything to prolong the process of enlightenment or more importantly put the answers in someone else's hands, save our own, eh Vaj? do you get a cut of the proceeds or free courses or something? It may not be for me (it may not be for you, but I would not ignore that which has helped or will help the suffering. It's just not in my nature to do so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:23 PM, BillyG. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nice site Vaj-Just a few items the TMorg doesn't have the slightest idea about, how pathetic!! (the TM org) Seem like nice people. They facilitate any one, any path without bias which is very rare these days, although they are from the same tradition as dear SBS.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:13 PM, Larry wrote: you're making this way too complicated, simplify, simplify, there's nothing to this Really, you shouldn't be telling me, as I am not one of the people who went through this. Some did suffer pain for years or decades. I did have a rather excellent time with the TMSP...but when I was done, I knew it was done. Just walked away and never went back.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Kirk wrote: He is like very fractal Bro, don't get him started. Oh no no no. Ain't going down that slippery slope again. I already contacted Mr. E and would simply take it offlist.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
I have to give out a long bwahaha at this website. Bwahaha (again even!) Nevermind. People believe what they believe. But Kundalini - Ma and myself, we think they're full of it, don't we darling, yehi.. Sa sa But really, so much lore, so little practical value. But then people go live at Ganga-jis feet too. So go figure. Given the amount of TM meditators since the fifties, they have gone on to just about form or make up part of every other cult on the planet. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:33 PM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: < Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent such full awakening.> What exactly causes these alleged blocks? Imbalanced kundalini risings which take "non-culminating" routes. Several people with vajra-nadi risings that I've spoken to. They believe "sidhi" cultivation has a lot to do with it. See http://www.kundalinicare.com/aboutkundalini3.html These people--a swami from the Saraswati order and his American lineholder--have spent a lot of time helping old TMers, including some higher-ups who skidaddled the TMO years ago. They also come to Fairfield from what I see every now and again. One letter from one of MMY's old close students, Earl Kaplan, is in the FFL archives. He seems to feel it was deliberate, but who knows?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:33 PM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: < Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent such full awakening.> What exactly causes these alleged blocks? Imbalanced kundalini risings which take "non-culminating" routes. Several people with vajra-nadi risings that I've spoken to. They believe "sidhi" cultivation has a lot to do with it. See http://www.kundalinicare.com/aboutkundalini3.html These people--a swami from the Saraswati order and his American lineholder--have spent a lot of time helping old TMers, including some higher-ups who skidaddled the TMO years ago. They also come to Fairfield from what I see every now and again. One letter from one of MMY's old close students, Earl Kaplan, is in the FFL archives. He seems to feel it was deliberate, but who knows?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
I didn't say that shit. I don't believe it either. But I also don't believe that TMers are very enlightened. Look around. On the other hand, the enlightened can be enlightened sleepetators, enlightened dogshit cleaneruppers,and enlightened twirps as we see here all the time. Enlightenment is overrated. At the very least it should be conscious volition to be what one is without regret. Maybe you and other blackouters like blacking out. Sounds fun to me. I have never been able to lose consciousness ever through any means, except for that one Mardi-Gras where I woke up and I was walking sideways down the street and hours had gone by. Alcohol is very not enlightening. It was the Vaj Genie who sayeth thusly. He is like very fractal Bro, don't get him started. - Original Message - From: "endlessrainintoapapercup" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience > Kirk said: > < Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks > in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent > such full > awakening.> > > What exactly causes these alleged blocks? > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> That vampired look I have determined comes from squeezing the eyes shut >> for > many hours a day which gives a person bruises under their eyes (dark > circles) and > also from the lack of sunlight. I used to look like that from rounding. > Most people do > at some point. >> - Original Message - >> From: Vaj >> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM >> technique and > experience >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:56 AM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: >> >> >> I don't know what type of experience you are talking about, >> matrixmonitor...I'm > only >> addressing the issue of conscious transcendence. If transcendence >> isn't > conscious, >> how can anyone say with any certainty that it exists? >> >> My words about deeper states of meditative absorption were not >> intended to > reflect >> TM-teach. I was just acknowledging that the experience I described, >> of pure >> consciousness beyond form, is just the beginning of culturing deeper >> and >> deeper meditative states. TM may not acknowledge them, but other >> meditation >> traditions do. My original question was simply whether TM produces >> conscious >> transcendence for others, as it doesn't seem to do so for me. >> >> >> >> >> Until you're centered and fully transcended at the level of the >> makara-bindu and > "open the eye of knowledge", the "third eye" as the TM puja mentions, most > TMers > will just languish in a laya-samadhi. The techniques to actually awaken > awareness > there aren't taught in TM, so unless you're somehow predisposed to awaken > so > highly, it just doesn't happen. >> >> >> Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks in >> their > "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent such full > awakening. >> >> >> Rounding continuously for decades in a laya can't be a good thing. But >> if you've > ever met the sickly Purusha's of the TMO and the resultant distorted > personality > types, one does start to wonder how healthy it is. Some of these guys > looks like they > were vampirized for years. It's also probably why TM doesn't make the > brain very > coherent at all like as is seen in deep meditation/samadhi. >> > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 2:42 PM, Marek Reavis wrote: Classic, Sal, but now I have to wipe the soda off my screen. Warn me next time. Got it--thanks, Marek. One of the perils of posting here.:) Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
Refresh our minds here Richard. What TM teacher training course did you graduate from? What year was it? Richard J. Williams wrote: > Bhairitu wrote: > >> In the intro lecture we even described these dips >> or the vertical descent. >> >> > There's no mention of a "angle" of the mantra in a > TM introductory lecture. Did you make that up? If so > then you were not teaching TM. > > >> And yes as almost everyone has experienced even the >> single bijas allow for some deep sustained meditation >> over time. >> >> > You only get one mantra in TM instruction. There are > no advanced technique bija mantras. The added phrases > in advanced techniques, such as Shree and Namah, are > just Sanskrit words, not bija mantras. The mystic > syllable OM is not considered to be a bija mantra. > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:47 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: On Mar 11, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Vaj wrote: Many of the tantric dictionaries are quite ancient, Not mine, Vaj. I've got the new and updated Merriam-Webster Tantric Dictionary, Expanded Edition. You mean you don't?! like the Vijanighantu of Bhairava Rishi for example Oh, that's so BC. Call me old fashioned!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 11:36 AM, Vaj wrote: Many of the tantric dictionaries are quite ancient, Not mine, Vaj. I've got the new and updated Merriam-Webster Tantric Dictionary, Expanded Edition. You mean you don't?! like the Vijanighantu of Bhairava Rishi for example Oh, that's so BC. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: > > The mystic syllable OM is not considered to be > > a bija mantra. > Vaj wrote: > Tantric bija dictionaries all contain om, including > it's bijoddhara (it's construction and meaning). > Apparently the mystic syllable OM has no meaning - it's not a word found in any standard Sanskrit lexicon. According to Swami Ageananda Bharati, the monosyllable 'OM', which is often seen in books and expressed in the popular imagination, is "a mantra by courtesy only". The works you cited were composed in the 18th century, so they are not considered to be authoritative. Bijas are seed syllables - they are esoteric, not the common knowledge contained in dictionaries. Many of the tantric dictionaries are quite ancient, like the Vijanighantu of Bhairava Rishi for example and represent old oral lines. Some like the Mantrarthabhidhana were actually parts of old tantras.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
That vampired look I have determined comes from squeezing the eyes shut for many hours a day which gives a person bruises under their eyes (dark circles) and also from the lack of sunlight. I used to look like that from rounding. Most people do at some point. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:56 AM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: I don't know what type of experience you are talking about, matrixmonitor...I'm only addressing the issue of conscious transcendence. If transcendence isn't conscious, how can anyone say with any certainty that it exists? My words about deeper states of meditative absorption were not intended to reflect TM-teach. I was just acknowledging that the experience I described, of pure consciousness beyond form, is just the beginning of culturing deeper and deeper meditative states. TM may not acknowledge them, but other meditation traditions do. My original question was simply whether TM produces conscious transcendence for others, as it doesn't seem to do so for me. Until you're centered and fully transcended at the level of the makara-bindu and "open the eye of knowledge", the "third eye" as the TM puja mentions, most TMers will just languish in a laya-samadhi. The techniques to actually awaken awareness there aren't taught in TM, so unless you're somehow predisposed to awaken so highly, it just doesn't happen. Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent such full awakening. Rounding continuously for decades in a laya can't be a good thing. But if you've ever met the sickly Purusha's of the TMO and the resultant distorted personality types, one does start to wonder how healthy it is. Some of these guys looks like they were vampirized for years. It's also probably why TM doesn't make the brain very coherent at all like as is seen in deep meditation/samadhi.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: The mystic syllable OM is not considered to be a bija mantra. Tantric bija dictionaries all contain om, including it's bijoddhara (it's construction and meaning).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 9:01 AM, BillyG. wrote: TM is Yoga lite for modernity! Less filling.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Your replies to my inquiries about TM technique and experience
On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:56 AM, endlessrainintoapapercup wrote: I don't know what type of experience you are talking about, matrixmonitor...I'm only addressing the issue of conscious transcendence. If transcendence isn't conscious, how can anyone say with any certainty that it exists? My words about deeper states of meditative absorption were not intended to reflect TM-teach. I was just acknowledging that the experience I described, of pure consciousness beyond form, is just the beginning of culturing deeper and deeper meditative states. TM may not acknowledge them, but other meditation traditions do. My original question was simply whether TM produces conscious transcendence for others, as it doesn't seem to do so for me. Until you're centered and fully transcended at the level of the makara-bindu and "open the eye of knowledge", the "third eye" as the TM puja mentions, most TMers will just languish in a laya-samadhi. The techniques to actually awaken awareness there aren't taught in TM, so unless you're somehow predisposed to awaken so highly, it just doesn't happen. Some yogis have noted TMers--esp. TM-Sidhi practitioners have blocks in their "nervous system" (actually their pranic bodies) that can prevent such full awakening. Rounding continuously for decades in a laya can't be a good thing. But if you've ever met the sickly Purusha's of the TMO and the resultant distorted personality types, one does start to wonder how healthy it is. Some of these guys looks like they were vampirized for years. It's also probably why TM doesn't make the brain very coherent at all like as is seen in deep meditation/samadhi.
