Re: [Finale] System Divider only in score

[SN jef chippewa]

in the score: select divider, hide, unlink, unhide.

I have created a system divider, //, in a score but it shows up in 
the parts.  If I delete it from the parts, it gets deleted in the 
score.  How do I define the system divider for the score but not the 
parts?


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Re: [Finale] Automatically Hyding Tuplet Numbers

[SN jef chippewa]

it is not possible to "automate" this in finale, 
but the task can indeed be streamlined ;-)


two easy ways, with the first you will see no 
traces of the tuplets and later perhaps have 
difficulty ascertaining if there are tuplets 
assigned/defined; the second hides them -- they 
appear in grey and don't print -- according to 
your "Hidden Notes" settings.  i prefer the 
latter in scores where i am using hidden tuplets 
to manipulate the default behaviour and 
appearance of finale.


to make the tuplets INVISIBLE select a region and 
use the menus to not show the number and/or 
bracket.  note this will hide ALL tuplets, i.e. 
6lets as well as 3lets.  i have set myself up 
with a yKey script / key combo to pull up this 
dialogue for tuplets, a real time-saver.


Utilities/Change.../Tuplets
Appearance -- Number: Nothing

also possible to HIDE using JW Change/Tuplets/Visibility: Hide

hope that is what you are looking for.
jef


I¹ve just received a large file (almost 500 
measures) full of triplets in almost every 
measure. I need to hide the [3] tuplet numbers 
(except for the very few first ones) and came 
here to ask if there¹s any automated way to do 
so. The thought of going through the whole 
process manually is scaring the life out of me.


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Re: [Finale] Find where expression or articulations are assigned

[SN jef chippewa]

don't know of any way to do this as you would like it, but i usually 
edit the object to make it 72 or 120 point (depending on the 
percentage reduction of the systems) and flip through the score pages 
to locate instances.


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Re: [Finale] Down-Bow Symbol as Conventional Full Stop Instruction

[SN jef chippewa]

i would definitely recommend NOT using a symbol that already has a 
clear and indisputed meaning.  by assigning yet a new meaning to an 
existing symbol you contribute to the confusion of contemporary (as 
in "today's practices") notation.  as much as i support and champion 
new and expanded approaches to music notation, i find it very 
effective to only do so when it is really warranted, when there is 
really no other solution.


often i find that a simple explanation suffices, or a small change in 
the notation itself can help (i'll describe such a case below). 
without more information or an example to examine, it "sounds" like 
that what you need could be achieved by having completely normal 
repeat bars and insert a new measure (no repeats) with the endnote on 
the downbeat of that measure; it would function as the final bar in 
the repeated passage and also give you soething to align other voice 
to (if needed).


or, if that doesn't work and you need to keep the endnote within the 
repeat bars, add a short line with a right hook on the endnote and 
the text "repeated passage ends on this note" or something similar.


also, i have seen (and used) repeated passages many times, notably to 
indicate transitions over x repetitions, and always found it could be 
made clearer by having the 1st repeat completely written out, then 
the repeat and a final completely written-out passage. e.g., let's 
say a measure is repeated 7 times and goes from p to f.  instead of 
writing the passage once with the text "7x", i would make the 1st of 
a 3-measure structure contain the pattern and p on the first note, a 
cresc. extends from that note over the 2nd measure -- the actual 
repeat measure (5x) -- into the 3rd measure of the structure, where 
the final f is located.


hope that helps!
jef

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Re: [Finale] Laissez Vibrer

[SN jef chippewa]

use the neueweise Articulations font :P


What is the best way for obtaining a few laissez vibrer symbols for 
cymbals on a percussion staff not using Engraver font?


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Re: [Finale] ISO B paper sizes

[SN jef chippewa]

yes, this has been possible for many years!  open up your 
"pagesizes.txt" and make the changes you want.  you can rename as you 
want to see it in the print and setup menus and can use any 
measurement unit in the settings (default is inches) and can 
mix&match with no probs.  for example, if you use american paper 
sizes or 9x12 (concert) but want to define the margins in cm:


Concert [9x12]  = 9, 12; 1.27c, 0.65c, 1.8c, 1.5c, 1.5c

keep in mind this is stored within the individual application support 
folders, so upon upgrade you will need to copy the file over.



I have created a B4 score in Finale by selecting the only B4 size 
available.  When trying to print this to PDF, I got a message 
indicating the paper sizes do not match.  I have worked out that 
Finale is using JIS standard instead of ISO.  I have fixed this by 
changing to custom page size, but wonder why this "omission" has 
occurred and why ISO and JIS are not both included in standard 
definitions, or ISO preferred over JIS.


Is there a way to save a custom page size so I do not have to set it 
up each time?


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Re: [Finale] Unusual Tuplet

[SN jef chippewa]

It is not possible to place two dotted halves in four quarter, under 
a quintuplet sign; one of the two halves has to be without dot.


someone has already pointed out that you have seemingly completely 
misunderstood what was being asked.


but i don't quite understand the reasoning or the point of trying to 
associate 1 layer of nested tuplets with leftist politics.  by your 
reasoning i would have to assume you also feel a waltz is leftist 
too, because it doesn't correspond to a nice and martial 4/4.  and 
don't get me started on those pesky nocturnes by that gol-darned 
radical chopin!!!  all those non-binary notes! all that schmearing of 
the meter! pff, i tell ya, who needs 'em?!?!?!


the insane double standard of your reactionary comments is that all 
music was at one point "contemporary music" so i'm happy to report to 
the world that all of today's music is nonsense -- until tomorrow.


maybe you would care to elucidate how you came to the conclusion that 
all "contemporary music" is a bluff?  like... you have literally 
heard *all* of it and are somehoe qualified to make an all-inclusive 
prognosis on an entire field of extremely divergent practices that 
spans many, many decades?


it's all been downhill since chopin.

thanks for your insights,
jef


One (just one, not really very important) of the reasons why 
"contemporary music" interests me a lot in passing, is that it is 
full of people (in Italy also) who believe that placing a quintuplet 
inside a nonuplet etc., is in itself a fact of 'avant-garde', 
probably even 'leftist' (which harms, has harmed, even to the 
'left', nb); while it's just a big nonsense, a bluff.
And bluffs don't last long, unless you have a big, big deal behind 
you - while "contemporary music" has become, thanks to such 
nonsense, only a small deal.


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Re: [Finale] Unusual Tuplet

[SN jef chippewa]

criticizing a particular notation without knowing the context, piece 
or composer is wrong (and silly).


there is no need to subtly slam new complexity composers, this rhythm 
is hardly complex, and the OP asked how to do it, not if it was 
"wrong".  further, to discredit an entire practice (one you seem to 
feel is unifed ["they are wrong"], though this is hardly the case) 
based on such a simple rhythm, which quite possibly has nothing to do 
with new complexity, is kind of reactionary.


the context of this rhythmic division (which i also don't know) could 
very well be explained by looking at surrounding measures or other 
similar instances in the piece, perhaps reflecting a proportional 
relation that is important to the proper understanding and 
performance of the piece.  personally, i would need to start there 
before at all being able to judge whether *i* feel it is wrong -- in 
*that* context.



At 12:22 AM +0200 5/30/19,  wrote:
I can't figure that rhythm; how on earth you can write it? two 
dotted halves makes six quarter, not five. You can find such rhythms 
in contemporary ('new complexity') composers, but they are wrong 
(and silly).


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Re: [Finale] same part in C and transposed

[SN jef chippewa]

hey christopher, thanks.  good to knowi'm on the 
right track, i have never needed to do this 
before.  and yeah i probably know about the 
distinction between applying to SC and/or PTs ;-)


That¹s how I make parts that are identical 
except for transposition (like baritone treble 
clef Bb or bass clef C, or alternate clarinet 
parts in A). Of course I know you are 
knowledgable enough to ONLY apply the staff 
style to the part. You can use JW Copy Part 
Layout and save a lot of formatting work, too.


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[Finale] same part in C and transposed

[SN jef chippewa]

wondering if anyone has a better or more clever way to do this?

SC in C, no transposing instruments.  i'm asked to provide a voice part (only, 
no other instruments) transposed down a M2.

in case there is ever a request/need for the original, i'm thinking to do 
everything in C and create 2 separate parts for the same voice.  one would be 
the original, and in the second defined part i would add a staff style to 
transpose it accordingly.  (with the same approach, i could also create a 
"part" that would be the transposed full score...)

would that be the easiest / best / cleverest way?  that would make sure any 
changes are updated in all versions and i would always have direct recourse to 
the original.

cheers,
jef

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Re: [Finale] [OT] voice part only

[SN jef chippewa]

i find really very little of what clients ask me 
to be unusual ;-) and providing what they request 
is my usual approach.


but in any case, it turns out the other musicians 
are transposing on sight and only the singer 
wanted a transposed part to perform from.


jef

At 11:10 AM +0200 5/7/19, Giovanni Andreani wrote:
It is quite an unusual request, to my 
experience. I would contact the client for 
further details if not I¹d provide the single 
vocal score, as requested, plus the piano-vocal 
part.


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Re: [Finale] [OT] voice part only

[SN jef chippewa]

not a waste at all.  but i don't know, didn't ask and don't really 
need to know.  they asked me to transpose it in exchange for some 
eurobucks and are a highly skilled 35-yr old ensemble so i will 
assume they know what they're doing and take them up on their offer :P



At 8:53 PM -0400 5/5/19, Dalvin Boone wrote:
Sorry to waste your time, but I have to ask:  why does a singer need 
a transposed part?


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Re: [Finale] [OT] voice part only

[SN jef chippewa]

raymond, it is for voice (singular) and the part 
needs to be transposed down a major second.  yeah 
i have cues for the entry and at the end of the 
longer multi-measure rests.


cheers,
jef

I don¹t know what a transposed score for voices 
would be, unless they are talking about the 
Tenor part written an octave higher than 
sounding, but I will say that you do not need to 
Do a piano reduction for choir, really anytime 
in a larger ensemble. Just give them some cues 
To help them get their pitch, and you are good 
to go!


Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger
Minister of Music,
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

 On May 5, 2019, at 11:49 AM, SN jef chippewa 
 wrote:



 yeah they explicitly said they don't need the 
score, only a transposed part (i don't know 
where the transposed score is or if there in 
fact is one), and there is a fixed (small) 
budget that is just too small for me to do the 
entire score even if i wanted to.


 thanks!


 In my experience, the singer reads from 
score, with the proviso that the vocal line is 
immediately above the piano line and that the 
other instruments on are reduced-size staves 
above the vocal line. (See, for example, the 
score of Pierrot Lunaire

 <https://imslp.org/wiki/Pierrot_Lunaire,_Op.21_(Schoenberg,_Arnold)>.)

 >> The other option would be to provide a 
piano/vocal score with a piano reduction of all 
the instrumental parts. But that may be more 
trouble than you need for this particular 
project.


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Re: [Finale] [OT] voice part only

[SN jef chippewa]

yeah they explicitly said they don't need the score, only a 
transposed part (i don't know where the transposed score is or if 
there in fact is one), and there is a fixed (small) budget that is 
just too small for me to do the entire score even if i wanted to.


thanks!


In my experience, the singer reads from score, with the proviso that 
the vocal line is immediately above the piano line and that the 
other instruments on are reduced-size staves above the vocal line. 
(See, for example, the score of Pierrot Lunaire

.)

The other option would be to provide a piano/vocal score with a 
piano reduction of all the instrumental parts. But that may be more 
trouble than you need for this particular project.


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[Finale] [OT] voice part only

[SN jef chippewa]

i only rarely encounter voice in the ensemble scores i do, so any 
advice would be appreciated.


i've been asked to create the vocal part (no other parts) for a 
late-18th century french song for voice, violin, cello and piano. 
just wanted to make sure that nothing aside from a couple of cues 
would be needed and the part only requires the vocal line.  or is it 
standard to make voice parts as a piano-vocal part (perhaps for 
rehearsal purposes)?


the job is for a professional ensemble that could probably sightread the score.

thanks,
jef

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Re: [Finale] Importance of 3rd Party Plugins to Finale

[SN jef chippewa]

I find both yours and Jari¹s plugs are 
indispensable. I¹m happy to advertise them. Any 
user who doesn¹t have them is walking with their 
shoelaces tied together.


behind their ankles.

in knee-deep snow.

at night.

blindfolded.

towards the cliff...

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[Finale] [OT] piano fingering position

[SN jef chippewa]

are there specific rules or a general best practice for the 
positioning of fingering numbers in piano music? i'm not home and 
have no scores to consult.  looked a little around the internet.


is it basically position them on the notehead side and as close to 
the notehead as possible, avoid stafflines if possible and flip to 
stemside if multiple layers necessitates it?  something like this?

http://newmusicnotation.com/TEMPFILES/11_K141-010_190304.pdf

thanks,
jef

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Re: [Finale] musx ≠ pdf for beam ext. / stem connect

[SN jef chippewa]

this discrepancy seems to have been because i was using hidden noteheads (via 
JW change/noteheads/visibility), did some tests with different sizes of blank 
noteheads in my fonts and can find a workable solution.

was using hidden noteheads and stems for very specific situations where the 
spacing shouldn't be affected by them but needed something there for enhanced 
beam extension control.  so "hiding" them in speedy wasn't an option.

but still wrong that the visualization in finale didn't correspond to the 
output!!!


> any idea why the positioning is different on extended beams and stem 
> connections?  in the pdf, finale is in the background, acrobat in the front.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lkkta76i34lmjn/SN_beamext-stemconnect.pdf?dl=0
> 
> the stem connection is set up in finale and already what it looks like in the 
> stem connections library and what it looks like on the page are different, 
> and a 3rd version happens when printing to pdf (with the system or with 
> acrobat professional).
> 
> also the beam extensions do not behave right, the output is not what i input. 
>  obviously in a score like this, that is a really big problem!
> 
> any ideas?

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[Finale] musx ≠ pdf for beam ext. / stem connect

[SN jef chippewa]

any idea why the positioning is different on extended beams and stem 
connections?  in the pdf, finale is in the background, acrobat in the front.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lkkta76i34lmjn/SN_beamext-stemconnect.pdf?dl=0

the stem connection is set up in finale and already what it looks like in the 
stem connections library and what it looks like on the page are different, and 
a 3rd version happens when printing to pdf (with the system or with acrobat 
professional).

also the beam extensions do not behave right, the output is not what i input.  
obviously in a score like this, that is a really big problem!

any ideas?

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Re: [Finale] retain beaming breaks when copying

[SN jef chippewa]

hey gerald, thanks.

something along the lines like that would work in some cases but here even when 
there are no beams across barlines, the beamed subdivisions of the measure are 
different in each voice.

 
> I have gone to the lengths of copy measure then, insert measure then, change 
> time signature and rebar. Use the detritus to whatever luck.
> Best I got.

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[Finale] retain beaming breaks when copying

[SN jef chippewa]

need help with a solution to nasty (default) behaviour.

(F25) bajillions of 8th notes in various beaming groupings (beams and stems) i 
set up several patterns for it, but when copying these patterns to non-whole 
measures starting on different positions within the (constantly changing) meter 
and the beaming reverts to the defaults set in the time sig for the measure. 
i've tried patterson mass copy with limited results, and the way these are set 
up and because the patterns change constantly it is better to rebeam manually.

as an example (full measure copying works), in the attached pdf the selected 3 
beats in snare 5 are the pattern i pasted -- the result before pasting was 
identical to the previous measure.

mostly i paste with "show active layer only", and some of these work but once 
an interlocking pattern is copied into remaining (empty) beats in the measure 
the stuff goes wacky.

please tell me there is something i am overlooking... i have done 15 pp and 
have another 60 to go :-/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpix4pkt6i7vrpr/SN_8ths-beam-break.pdf?dl=0

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Re: [Finale] Beaming 5/16 in One Group

[SN jef chippewa]

WAAHH!

no way, that is awesome

> .625 /2 in the composite time signature box would give you what you want, 
> with 5/16 for display. 

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Re: [Finale] Beaming 5/16 in One Group

[SN jef chippewa]

use a composite time signature of 1+9/32 showing alternate 5/16.

if you use a 32nd on the 1st beat, do the same thing but at the /64 level.


> That will only give you 5 separate 16th notes.
> Normally you would use the Composite Time Sig, but for 5/16th it doesn’t 
> quite work.
> Normally you would type 1 in the top and then click EDU and type the added 
> value of 5 16th notes = 1280
> But that doesn’t seem to work.


EDU can only be used for "single-symbol" durations and their dotted and 
double-dotted versions (1/32, 3/16, 7/32).  anything that needs to be tied 
(5/16, 9/anything) can't be represented as EDUs.


> Workaround is to just have a regular 5/16 time signature and after you have 
> input the music, highlight the section and under Utilities select 
> Rebeam-Rebeam to Time Signature. Then enter the value of a half note 
> (something bigger than 5 16th notes). That should give you what you want.

> >> Is there a way to set the time signature to 5/16 while grouping the five 
> >> sixteenths under the same beam, within the Time Signature Tool? Looks like 
> >> I’m missing something.
> >> 
> >> Giovanni

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Re: [Finale] OT Sibelius list

[SN jef chippewa]

make sure you weren't subbed with 2 separate 
addresses (one of which is no longer subbed) - i 
see this regularly with people who use both a 
personal and academic address, or set up a 
separate "lists" email address.



At 5:08 PM +0200 8/4/18, Lawrence wrote:
Does anybody know how to get off the Sibelius 
list?  I¹ve unsubscribed and it won¹t let me 
post anything but I still keep getting the 
posts. When I try to reply to them it tells me 
I¹m unsubscribed.


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Re: [Finale] FINMAC - iKey?

[SN jef chippewa]

i use yKey as well for many years now


It's called yKey  now and has 
been updated for 10.13. I replaced OX9 Quickeys with this. I believe 
there is now an OSX Quickeys, so it may be a better choice for you. 
But yKey does everything I need it to.


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[Finale] [OT] notation panels in darmstadt 24/27 jul

[SN jef chippewa]

anyone around for the summer courses?  i'm one of the invited guests on 2 panel 
discussions this week: "notation as imperative" (tuesday) and "open form" 
(friday).

the starting point for tomorrow's discussion is "pression" (lachenmann), which 
i scored several years ago.  the series is led by lucas fels, tomorrow michel 
roth is co-chair, ulrich mosch will give a keynote and also on the panel are 
donatienne michel-dansac and myself.  lachenmann is likely to be present as 
well.

both talks 10 am, and in english
Lichtenbergschule, Ludwigshöhstraße 105

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Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation Question

[SN jef chippewa]

yes, sorry your "divisi notes" caught me off-guard :-)

but yeah that is what i meant, clusters of individual 
notes/instruments, all playing 6-let tremoli




 > but in the scan no "div." is indicated.

It is not customary to mark wind/brass parts divisi, since they are 
always one-on-a-part anyway.


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Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation Question

[SN jef chippewa]

i would say that is also a possibility, top line left measure has (on 
all 3 beats) A-Bb on left part of split stem, Bnat-C on right.  but 
in the scan no "div." is indicated.  3rd measure 3rd beat has 5 notes 
(B to Eb) with 3 stems for sure, possibly 4, maybe even 5 (very 
faint, hard to tell).



Is it not just divisi notes in clusters? (I can barely see the scan.)


 I would have to agree. The forked stems mean all the notes sound at the
 same time (just like a chord), while the 6 underneath and the beams mean

 > sextuplet tremolos. Must be a number of players on that staff.


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Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation Question

[SN jef chippewa]

top line sextuplet tremoli on clusters, others tied clusters, seems to me

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Re: [Finale] F2010, illustrator, graphics on OSX.10

[SN jef chippewa]

yeah they are definitely AI.  i opened them in graphic converter but there was 
only one layer containing both the finale output and the drawn-over grphics.  
had i known what i know now :-) i could have saved only the graphics as 
separate files and might have been be able to work with those.

thanks, i'll send you a file to see if anything can be done.
jef

> Are the AI files truly AI or tiff?  I don’t think I can be much help on your 
> F2010 front, but I have AI and I would be willing to try to convert the files 
> to something you might be able to use, like tiff or ?
> 
> PM me if that seems workable for you.

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[Finale] F2010, illustrator, graphics on OSX.10

[SN jef chippewa]

am on 10.10.4 and have some files that were done in 2007 that a few client 
revisions entered.  was able to open using F2010 (although it took a long time 
though and told me the file was saved with a newer version and couldn't be 
opened) and can seemingly edit.  so far so good, at least where finale is 
concerned.

but i don't have (access to) illustrator where a bunch of wavy line graphics 
were entered (and then printed to PDF).

um, any solutions or ideas?  i have pages (iWork) but it can't do these kinds 
of lines.  and obviously can't open AI files.

another thing, i have a 10.6.8 partition but F2010 is not installed there and i 
doubt i even have the installers anywhere anyways.  could i just move the app 
and recources over to that system relatively easily if i encounter problems on 
10.10.4?

cheers,
jef

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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[SN jef chippewa]

i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and 
platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the new 
music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music notation, 
western or other.
https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo

> All that said, I’m always happy to be pointed to a technique or a tool I 
> might have missed that solves problems like these and others.

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[Finale] [OT] TENOR 2018 Performer Lab - upcoming deadline

[SN jef chippewa]

last call, DEADLINE is 5 april for the performer 
lab during TENOR in montréal in late may. TENOR 
2018 -- Fourth International Conference on 
Technologies for Music Notation and 
Representation.


>Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 09:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Terri Hron 
>To: CEC-Conference 
>Subject: [cec-c] TENOR 2018 Performer Lab - upcoming deadline
>
>Looking to increase your proficiency with 
>innovative new music notation approaches and 
>devices?
>
>http://matralab.hexagram.ca/tenor2018/performers-lab
>
>The TENOR Performer Lab is a 4-day hands-on 
>workshop exploring developments in notation 
>technologies. With the supportive collaboration 
>of composers, technicians and experienced 
>performers, participants will become adept with 
>using and interpreting technology-rich and 
>experimental scoring methods.
>
>Workshop dates: May 22-26, 2018
>
>Leading up to and during the TENOR 2018 
>conference, workshop for performers during which 
>participants will study and learn selected 
>situative scores. These will be presented at an 
>outcome concert at the close of the TENOR 
>conference, on May 26th.
>
>Terri Hron, an experienced performer/composer, 
>will lead the Performer Lab and its participants 
>through the different aspects important in 
>performing a variety of situative scores.
>http://www.birdonawire.ca
>
>Situative Scores are defined here as animated, 
>rule-based, reactive, interactive or other 
>situational and technology-based scores.
>
>
>The workshop comprises the following:
>
>aspects of the history and pedagogy of 
>extended/situative scoring, including working on 
>seminal pieces
>practical experience with scores that engage a 
>different focus: auditive, visual and interactive
>discussions on working out the various 
>(technological) challenges (we will have a tech 
>coordinator on hand)
>study sessions of existing scores, scores by 
>TENOR composers and scores from the TENOR 2018 
>conference call and keynote speakers.
>workshops with two selected composers who will 
>be present to rehearse and lead their pieces
>participants will benefit from conference keynotes, events and networking.
>Deadline for applications: April 5, 2018
>
>Full information here:
>http://matralab.hexagram.ca/tenor2018/performers-lab

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[Finale] [OT] article: notation for electroacoustic/digital media

[SN jef chippewa]

sooo yeah.  finally got around to starting to commit some of this 
music notation stuff in my head to "paper".  perhaps of interest to 
some here.  was published in the latest issue of the online journal 
eContact!

Typology and Problematics of Fixed Notation for the Representation of 
Electroacoustic and Digital Media: Preamble; Part I. Waveform display 
notation
http://econtact.ca/19_3/chippewa_notation-waveform.html

i also wrote the editorial... and i think it is one of my best in a long time
http://econtact.ca/19_3/editorial.html

enjoy!
jef

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[Finale] [OT] eContact! 19.3 - Notation for EA and Digital Media

[SN jef chippewa]

perhaps of interest to some here.  i coordinated 
the recent issue of eContact! and finally started 
writing down some of my own research and 
experiences in notation.

--

PRESS RELEASE -- for immediate diffusion / pour diffusion immédiate
Please forward at large.

Communauté électroacoustique canadienne
(CEC) Canadian Electroacoustic Community

eContact! 19.3
Notation for Electroacoustic and Digital Media: 
Visual representation, communication and 
transmission /
Notation pour l'électroacoustique et les médias 
numériques: représentation visuelle, 
communication et transmission

[EN] Any discussion of notation for 
electroacoustic and digital media necessarily 
addresses several related and equally important 
issues. An understanding of the nature, needs and 
intentions of visual representation help ensure 
the effective, appropriate communication and 
transmission of the notated work or performance 
practice. (January 2018)
http://econtact.ca/19_3

[FR] Toute discussion portant sur la notation 
pour l'électroacoustique et les médias numériques 
doit nécessairement aborder plusieurs questions 
afférentes toutes aussi importantes les unes que 
les autres. La compréhension de la nature, des 
besoins et des intentions liés à la 
représentation visuelle permet d'assurer la 
communication et la transmission efficaces et 
appropriées de l'¦uvre ou de la pratique de 
performance écrite. (janvier 2018)
http://econtact.ca/19_3/index_fr.html




Editorial
by jef chippewa


VISUAL REPRESENTATION

The Visualization and Representation of Electroacoustic Music
by David Gray

[F] Observer le processus de constitution d'une notation musicale en direct/
[E] Observing in Real Time the Making of a New System of Musical Notation
by Evelyne Gayou

>From UPIC to IanniX: Development of a 
three-dimensional graphic, open source 
environment for music, sound and beyond
by Julian Scordato

What You See Is What You Hear: Using visual 
communication processes to categorize various 
manifestations of music notation
by Christian Fischer


COMMUNICATION AND TRANSMISSION

Typology and Problematics of Fixed Notation for 
the Representation of Electroacoustic and Digital 
Media: Preamble; Part I. Waveform display notation
by jef chippewa

Doodling in the Posthuman Corpus: Wherefore scoring in the minds of machines?
by Matthew Reid Horrigan

New Behaviours and Strategies for the Performance 
Practice of Real-Time Notation
by Seth Shafer

Looking Back, Looking Forward: Reflecting on the 
past for a notation of the future
by Alyssa Aska and Martin Ritter


INTERVIEWS

Monday Nights at The Kitchen Were Dark. Until...: 
Interview with American composer Rhys Chatham
by Bob Gluck

A Mess of Equipment and NYU's Electronic Music 
Studio: Interview with American composer Brian 
Fennelly
by Bob Gluck

Acoustic Composers Also Need to Know About 
Electronic Music: Interview with Brazilian 
composer Marlos Nobre
by Bob Gluck


OTHER ITEMS

An Artist's Reading of the New Funding Model 
Implemented by the Canada Council for the Arts in 
2017
by jef chippewa

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Re: [Finale] Display Elapsed Time

[SN jef chippewa]

oh maan, fantastic!  that exists even back in F2012, how did i miss that?!!

i also just discovered you can individually add enclosures to measure 
numbers (or individually edit measure numbers predefined to have an 
enclosure)  yeah!


>You can define a measure number to be time of mm:ss and then display 
>them on every measure. Note the Measure Number Bar in Scroll/Studio 
>view will also display the time this way. Hope this helps.

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[Finale] stem connections not accessible (F2010/OSX10.4)

[SN jef chippewa]

i have a 2010 score that needed one tiny correction and of course i have spent 
the entire morning trying to get the kinks out of the file.  was originally 
done on 10.6.8, i've had to redo FANs for older version of my fonts and other 
tiny adjustments on 10.4 and it is largely fine now.

2 (possibly related) issues remain for one blank notehead:
- the stem is positioned further right than it should
- the aug dot on down stem notes is too far right

i can't access 2/3 of the utlities menu items, incl. stem conections, am 
wondering if that could be (related to) the problem.  of course i can make the 
adjustments manually (not too many to do), but i prefer to find the reason for 
the behaviour and fix it if possible.

i did instal lipo or whatever it was the system requested when i opened F2010.

also played around with the notehead width in the FAN, no change.

there seemed to be less problems working on it in 2010 than migrating to a 
newer version.  i can still run 10.6.8 but need to generate PDFs on OSX10.  
s.

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Re: [Finale] OT: iKey vs yKey

[SN jef chippewa]

i'm on a different partition/system right now than where i use 
F2014.5 , so can't check the name, but it seems that the software was 
sold and auto-updated itself.  i'm still using it (in its new 
manifestation), all is fine.  the interface is a little different but 
nothing radical to adjust to.

>Does anyone on this list use yKey? It seems to be the replacement for iKey.
>Can it use the iKey shortcuts I already have?

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Re: [Finale] downward offset when printing from finale

[SN jef chippewa]

more strangeness but maybe this shows the problem is related to the margins 
and/or text blocks aligned to margins.  i set the top page margin to 0 for one 
page (page numbers now touching page edge) but left the bottom margins as is 
(144, with a time/date stamp aligned to it) and the result is:
- page numbers sit a little high but close to the original margin, i.e. 
downward displaced like in previous attempts
- the time/date stamp sits just below the page edge (tops of the letters are 
visible) just as previously

gr...


> i can't find any reason why finale (mac 2014.5) would do this, but printing 
> from A4 the entire image is lower than it should be, seemingly by an amount 
> equivalent to my top and bottom page margins (144 EVPU, or 1.27 cm / 0.5 in). 
>  this occurs when using a printer as well as printing to PDF (both system and 
> via adobe acrobat professional).
> 
> no probs when i change a page to A3 and try again. also, my "pagesizes.txt" 
> file has the correct margin values and is in the right place, and i've 
> verified this does not happen in other programmes.
> 
> i opened a new doc / no libraries and don't encounter the problem.
> 
> any other ideas where to look?  or is it time to try the old support 
> fall-back and "trash the prefs"?

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[Finale] downward offset when printing from finale

[SN jef chippewa]

i can't find any reason why finale (mac 2014.5) would do this, but printing 
from A4 the entire image is lower than it should be, seemingly by an amount 
equivalent to my top and bottom page margins (144 EVPU, or 1.27 cm / 0.5 in).  
this occurs when using a printer as well as printing to PDF (both system and 
via adobe acrobat professional).

no probs when i change a page to A3 and try again. also, my "pagesizes.txt" 
file has the correct margin values and is in the right place, and i've verified 
this does not happen in other programmes.

i opened a new doc / no libraries and don't encounter the problem.

any other ideas where to look?  or is it time to try the old support fall-back 
and "trash the prefs"?

-- 


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Re: [Finale] NUMBERING DRUM PARTS

[SN jef chippewa]

if you define a category for it you don't have to duplicate to retain the 
positioning and font characteristics and can adjust them globally at any time 
if you see the default positioning needs adjusting ;-)

>I make sure that the first one I create has the right positioning (centre 
>between barlines, at a height I can accept) and duplicate it to create the 
>others.

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Re: [Finale] Microtone accidental positioning

[SN jef chippewa]

dude, why would you want to make your life so difficult? that is the absolute 
worst way to do microtonal notation. expressions are more reliable for 
positioning, but in any case, you will want to reset them all to the 0 position 
globally (once all are entered) before doing any real layout work.

but why not use the built-in functionality of finale? you can change the 
accidental characters using the special tool/accis to have them appear, space 
and function properly.

also if you are only using quarter tones you can use the programme itself to 
manage this and only have to check (and change enharmonically) specific pitches 
in transposed parts. e.g., use the parenthesized accis for your quarter tones 
(you should not be using parenthesized accis in microtonal notation so they are 
just sitting there waiting for a new meaning in life):

1/4# - (natural)
3/4# - (#)
1/4b - (b)
3/4b - (bb)

> I am working on a piece with a lot of microtone accidentals, using the 
> articulation tool.  Even though I have specified horizontal and vertical 
> positions for the articulation, this is ignored every time and I have to 
> position each and every accidental.  Is this broken as designed or is 
> there a way around it?

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[Finale] PC keyboard help in staff tool?

[SN jef chippewa]

i'm on mac, but helping a PC user learn finale.  what are the keys / strokes to 
select non-adjacent staves in scroll view?  this is to define staff sets.

also, what is the key command to select a defined staff set (ctl-1 through 8 on 
mac; ctl-0 for all staves)?  i know str-1 through 8 to define but how do you 
call them up without having to access the menu?  nothing mentioned in the user 
manual:
https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2014Win/Content/Finale/ViewOSelect_Staff_Set.htm?Highlight=staff%20sets

he is on F2014 and the update layout setting doesn't "stick" after closing the 
doc options menu, is this fixed in 2014.5 on pc?  i don't see anything about it 
here:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/makemusic-downloads/Finale/2014.5/Finale2014WinReadme.pdf

cheers,
jef

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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[SN jef chippewa]

hi michael, the issue you mention is not a "problem", it is design. 
think of notation software as a digital grid, not blank 2D paper. 
the extra staff/staves you add are present in the entire document 
(i.e. all measures/systems) but can also be hidden selectively in an 
instant.  there are various approaches to hiding, depending on the 
needs of your music (through the staff tool, selecting handles on the 
page, or staff styles in various ways).

staff groups are what you need to check out for extending the bracket 
over all staves of your piano instrument.  this needs to be redefined 
manually because the extra staves you add are not considered part of 
the piano internally.  i have been doing this for years for other 
reasons (extra staff above the grand staff for objects or percussion 
instruments that the pianist plays) with no problems, but it requires 
shifting one's perspective on what the notation sofware is/does and 
how it is structured, in comparison to notating on paper, where i can 
add anything for as short or long a passage as i wish.


>   My issue is with piano music, and there are a few pieces I have
>which will briefly require 3 or 4 staves, although I use only 2 for
>maybe 95 percent of systems in piano music.  (And nothing I write
>requires more than two staves for the entire piece.)
>   I think I found a utility for adding a staff, but there were two
>problems with it: Finale added the extra staff for all systems in the
>piece, not just the one or two where I wanted it; and the curly bracket
>at the start didn't lengthen to cover all staves, but just remained
>covering two staves it considered to be the original ones, and not the
>extra one or two.
>   Are there easy solutions to this, please?
>   Also, does creating an extra staff just for a couple of systems
>have implications if, as I edit the piece, repagination occurs and the
>distribution of bars on particular staves changes?  Do I have to plan
>for that, or will Finale look after it if the bars do later get
>rearranged automatically (or I rearrange them manually)?

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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[SN jef chippewa]

i think the max # of staves for a single instrument is 3 (organ). 
these things are defined in the instrument database, which i fiddled 
with several years back.  on mac, you had to ctl-click the programme 
icon, as i recall.  and select "show package contents".  somewhere 
there was a file that could be opened and edited with certain 
database software programmes (like mysql).  i did it to correct 
errors in finale's databases -- i think it was that bass trombone was 
set as a transposing instrument, and some other small things that i 
felt needed to be corrected.  also i wanted to redefine the 
abbreviated names.  but since this would have to be done for each new 
version of the programme, i decided it was easier to live with the 
errors, since most of them i would almost never, if at all, come 
across, and to manually edit abbr. staff names...

but if you decide to go for it, you will need to edit the database 
(appearance) and ensembles definitions.

in the case of one piece with a 6-stave piano part, i would *never* 
bother with these kinds of hacks, easiest to just define it as a 
group.


>On Sat, October 14, 2017 3:57 am, Ryszard Pusz wrote:
>>  Dennis would a marimba solve the problem, as that comes on a double staff?
>
>Yes, kluges are possible -- but I'm asking for the method to create new
>multi-staff instruments for my default file that automatically show up like
>the piano does with two staves below its name on the score manager. The
>cimbalom isn't the only one. There are numerous instruments (including some of
>my own design) that I'd like to have as two- or three-staff defaults. (I have
>a piano piece on 6 staves and would love to have that show as a single
>instrument.)
>
>So does anyone know where the configuration files for multi-staff 
>instruments is found?

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Re: [Finale] shifting notes

[SN jef chippewa]

i think you're stuck with manual adjustments in however many 
variations you might have on manual displacement needs, and then 
hopefully being able to copy at least some of it with robert's PI.

because this can go screwy i have a "note to me" category (24 pt 
hidden; L-aligned to L of principal note, 24 EVPU above staffline) 
and assign expressions listing the adjustments as needed (e.g., "L2 
-18" for H displacement of 18 EVPUs left in layer 2).

>Thanks Jef. Is there any way to get the spacing the same each time 
>between such a group of four notes? Any other way than dragging?

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Re: [Finale] shifting notes

[SN jef chippewa]

>Sorry, me again.

it's ok, we forgive you :P

don't think so, but the next step (if there are are several to do) is 
obviously patterson's mass copy...


>Is there a plug-in (or some other way than dragging each note) to shift
>notes when two voices on one staff cross, such as here?

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Re: [Finale] tails through noteheads

[SN jef chippewa]

i would move layer 2 further left, and find a balance between long 
stem and horizontal displacement that i like.  engraver has tighter 
curves at the end of the flag and you would be able to "tuck it in" a 
little tighter than you will be able to with maestro as your flags 
font.

>Is it acceptable to have the tail of an 8th go through the notehead of a
>second voice on the same staff, such as here:
>
>https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfix9yo72n6r5mx/2017-10-03_133719.jpg?dl=0
>
>If not, what are the solutions, besides a VERY long stem?

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Re: [Finale] Mass Copy is Superior to Edit Filter

[SN jef chippewa]

i heartily second the subject line.

i have saved settings for stem+beam alterations, articulations only, 
measure-attached smart shapes and note-attached smart shapes as saved 
settings.

e.g., for stems on 8th and smaller durations i extend 12 EVPUs when 
the note is (treble clef as example) a B or further from the staff. 
and i reduce stems on most chords by 12 EVPUs.

TRICK: make an example with a 16th note in 2 layers and 
lengthen/shorten both the upstem and downstem.  copy this 16th as a 
source using robert's PI and paste individually or by region.  the 
quantization will omit tuplets (or values smaller than your model), 
but you can then reapply it starting on notes other than 
binary-divided beats.  maybe easier to understand while doing than 
reading what i am writing, but paste to a selection starting on the 
2nd 16th of a triplet and all notes at an interval of x 16ths from 
the start of your selection are affected (2nd and 5th 16th-note 
triplets).



>I received a Finale blog post in my inbox today:
>
>https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/jazz-composition-arranging-tips-edit-filter-paste-multiple/?utm_source=responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=septembernewsletter
>
>Because there seems to be no commenting on that blog, I am going to comment
>here.
>
>Mass Copy (part of my plugin suite) is superior to Edit Filter/Paste 
>Multiple. Vastly so, I think.
>
>The process he shows in the video requires juggling a couple of 
>dialog boxes every time you want to do the process. Mass Copy, by 
>contrast, is a modeless dialog you can leave open on your desktop.
>
>Using Mass Copy means you *don't* have to mess with your Edit Filter 
>settings. Mass Copy essentially gives you a scratch Edit Filter. (As 
>many different scratch filters as you like, with Saved Settings. For 
>example, I have a Saved Setting just for replicating cross staffing, 
>including the beam and stem adjustments.)
>
>Mass Copy includes a number of items the Edit Filter doesn't. 
>Examples are Tuplets and individual selection of Stem & Beam 
>alterations. The next version will include Beat Chart elements! 
>(That's right, starting with v5.11 you will be able to move the 
>spacing of one beat in one measure to another beat in the same or 
>different measure.)
>
>Mass Copy copies Lyric *Assignments*, so it doesn't jumble up the 
>text in your Lyrics Window.
>
>Mass Copy does not require you to count how many times you want to 
>replicate a pattern. You just select the replication region and let 
>it do its thing.
>
>Mass Copy is based on the metric length of a pattern and does not 
>care about barlines. Until you've used this feature (combined with 
>automatic pattern replication), I will probably have trouble 
>describing just how powerful and seamless this is.
>
>Mass Copy can copy between documents. A future version of it will 
>restore copying of expressions between documents. (This was a 
>feature that went away starting in Fin09 due to the complexity 
>around expressions that version introduced.)
>
>Mass Copy copies clef changes accurately according to pattern and 
>not barline. My experience with Finale's built-in clef copying is 
>very mixed.
>
>It is possible to invoke Mass Copy entirely with keystroke macros so 
>that you never touch the dialog. This includes the replication 
>feature. (Remember, Mass Copy automatically replicates the pattern 
>both horizontally and vertically based on what you select as the 
>target.)
>
>There are some items on the Edit Filter that are not available in 
>Mass Copy. Things like MIDI Data and most of the Measure Stack 
>items. But I rarely need to copy these without copying everything. 
>The biggest one is "Note Positioning" (aka Beat Chart Elements). And 
>v5.11 will remedy that with.
>
>Rant mode off. :-)

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[Finale] [OFF] interview on "scoring notes" blog

[SN jef chippewa]

philip rothman has recently published an interview he did with me. 
we talk shop in areas of contemporary and traditional music notation, 
notation software choices, my custom fonts for new and traditional 
music notation... and the origins of the name shirling & neueweise.

put on some of your fave plink-plonk screech-scratch music -- or 
beethoven's 7th, if you prefer -- and enjoy the read.  also includes 
lots of sexy notation examples!

http://www.scoringnotes.com/people/interview-new-music-specialist-jef-chippewa-neueweise-fonts

jef

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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

true!

>Jef, a required piece for a competition is not necessarily a 
>commissioned work.

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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

oops, sorry, i was reminded you had referred to wettbewerbsmusik, 
which would mean inverting my comments about masc./fem.

and i just noticed another mistake, i used the word "fun" in a 
sentence about german grammar.


>more fun german gender noun facts --  musikwettbewerb is masc. 
>because wettbewerb is masc.; doesn't matter that musik is fem. in 
>this case (musik becomes an adj.).

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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

>A required piece for a competition would be "ein/das Pflichtstück"

yeah but that is really awkward and may be used 
but is certainly nowhere as common as the term 
"auftragskomposition", which in the context of a 
competition is clearly understood to be mandatory 
(pflicht).

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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

>here they use a similar for to wqhat i wrote above:
>... Auftragskomposition des diesjährigen ARD-Wettbewerbs...

forgot the link

https://www.br-klassik.de/concert/ausstrahlung-1163426.html


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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

more fun german gender noun facts -- 
musikwettbewerb is masc. because wettbewerb is 
masc.; doesn't matter that musik is fem. in this 
case (musik becomes an adj.).


>Can someone help me with what a word would be in 
>German? I¹m looking for a word that would be 
>used for ³competition music,² as in music 
>written specifically to be used in a music 
>competition (e.g., a new work required of all 
>participants).
>
>I know the standard word in German for music 
>competition is Musikwettbeverb. But I can¹t 
>verify if that is reversible, that is, if the 
>music for the competition would be 
>Wettbeverbmusik or Wettbeverbsmusik or two 
>separate words (or a completely different word). 
>I know also Musik is feminine, while Wettbeverb 
>is masculine. If Wettbeverbmusik is a word, 
>would it be feminine?

-- 

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Re: [Finale] off topic: German for "competition music"?

[SN jef chippewa]

Auftragskomposition is a common term 
(commissioned work), but i can't recall ever 
seeing the specific term you mention.  could be 
something like Wettbewerbauftragskomposition.  or 
Auftragskomposition zur Wettbewerb.

careful, "w", not "v".

also Auftragswerk
http://www.violinwettbewerb-marteau.de/wettbewerb/repertoire/auftragswerk.html

here they use a similar for to wqhat i wrote above:
... Auftragskomposition des diesjährigen ARD-Wettbewerbs...

so you might use:
Auftragskomposition des NAMEOFCOMPETITION-Wettbewerbs

des = of the genetive (possessive) form; the "s" 
is needed on the end of Wettbewerb in such cases


>Can someone help me with what a word would be in 
>German? I¹m looking for a word that would be 
>used for ³competition music,² as in music 
>written specifically to be used in a music 
>competition (e.g., a new work required of all 
>participants).
>
>I know the standard word in German for music 
>competition is Musikwettbeverb. But I can¹t 
>verify if that is reversible, that is, if the 
>music for the competition would be 
>Wettbeverbmusik or Wettbeverbsmusik or two 
>separate words (or a completely different word). 
>I know also Musik is feminine, while Wettbeverb 
>is masculine. If Wettbeverbmusik is a word, 
>would it be feminine?

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Re: [Finale] Dorico

[SN jef chippewa]

david, it sounds to me like you should write an article or blog entry 
comparing the pros and cons of the three programmes ;-)

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[Finale] Dorico -- chord symbol tool for graphics?

[SN jef chippewa]

i watched the video chuck mentioned and wonder if it could be hacked 
to provide a nice way to build a new music symbols library.  normally 
i would do this with multiple text expressions, or (yuck!) as a 
multi-component shape expression; both these approaches are 
unsatisfying.

for example, if you set the foundation (A, for example) to a snare 
drum character, you could have various manifestations of   additional 
symbols replaced to show (for example) snare sticks striking the 
instrument in various ways: e.g., ord, with butt, hoop crack, stick 
on stick rim shot... so instrument symbols assigned to the notes and 
playing techniques to the suffixes.

would be a pain in the ass to do this in finale's chord editor, but 
it looks like the graphic approch in dorico would make this a breeze, 
no?

it would be awesome if you could change the angle of the symbols... 
add to that the possibility to add lines, shapes and you would 
essentially have a mini graphics editor inside the software.

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[Finale] [OFF] piece for live-composed score

[SN jef chippewa]

please forgive a little self-promo but it's quite 
related to notation matters (if not 
finale-specific) :-)

--

BERLIN -- 10 sept 2017 @ heimathafen (neukölln) | kontraklang concert series

hey, anyone interested in seeing musicians make 
the score in real time that they will play from 
should come check out my latest next week.

"the piece formerly known as 'neues Werk'" is for 
cello, mobile trio (sax, accordion, trombone), 
composer and live-composed score.  this is my 
third collaboration with LUX:NM, who commissioned 
the work.  there is somewhat of a "canada" slant 
on the programme, with 3 works by canadians who 
live / have lived in germany.

preps for the piece: linocut music symbol, cutter, ink and paper.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1617413434944504&set=pcb.122959651693722&type=3&theater

Jef Chippewa -- neues Werk (UA)
Annesley Black -- a piece that is a size that is 
recognised as not a size but a piece
Antonis Anissegos -- It Is What It Is # 1. (UA)
Anthony Tan -- On the Sensations of Tone III (UA)
Brigitta Muntendorf -- Yes Master
Sarah Nemtsov -- JOURNAL

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Re: [Finale] Assigning Text Blocks to Measures - Shortcut?

[SN jef chippewa]

text tool, text menu: Assign To Measure

> Is there a shortcut to assigning text blocks to measures...

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Re: [Finale] Staff question

[SN jef chippewa]

hey patsy,

your topline distance is the distance between the top stafflines of 2 adjacent 
(vertically) staves.  if your value is 0 you are laying a new staff directly 
over the existing one.  if your measurement units are set to EVPUs try a value 
of 275 or 300.

but your best bet is probably the setup wizard, where you can select predefined 
ensembles that will include the standard clef for those instruments in your 
chosen ensemble.  this is the way to go if you want the whole list of orchestra 
ranges on one page.

if you are instead simply trying to make the same generic document for each 
musician with a grand staff (treble and bass, like piano), in your one-staff 
document, open the score manager (cmd-k on mac) and set the instrument to piano 
(no staff name), under the keyboards section.

if none of this helps, you might want to upload a scan of a handwritten version 
of what you are aiming for.

cheers,
jef
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Re: [Finale] what other fonts did you use ca. 2000?

[SN jef chippewa]

um... huh?

robert, did i miss a post?  because i really have no idea what you 
are talking about / what you are responding to.

but they were two related fonts, no?  percussion instrument/ mallet 
symbols.  from jan's page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20160322142311/http://caltabiano.net/shareware/ghent_percussion.html


>I lack your respect for copyrights on abandonware. My attitude is to 
>take it down if I get a takedown notice. In fact, I'd be happy to 
>host it if you want to link to it. If I get a takedown notice 
>perhaps it would allow us to discover a legitimate site for it.
>
>Are you sure GhentMallets is the same as Ghent? That might have been 
>an extension of the original Ghent font. (Which had letters and 
>numbers as well as percussion symbols.) I actually created mine with 
>a family name of "Ghent-Regular" so it would plug-and-play in Finale 
>as a replacement for the .suit file.

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Re: [Finale] what other fonts did you use ca. 2000?

[SN jef chippewa]

ah, didn't go deep enough, but was already using your font comparison 
tool, thanks!


>you will find character maps and download info to all the fonts you
>mentioned here:
>https://elbsound.studio/music-fonts.php
>
>The more or less Finale compatible OpenMusic font OMAntonin was also
>designed for contemporary notation. IIRC they introduced it in the early
>2000's.
>https://elbsound.studio/music-font-comparison.php?font=OMAntonin

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Re: [Finale] what other fonts did you use ca. 2000?

[SN jef chippewa]

thanks for the tips, had forgotten a few.

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Re: [Finale] what other fonts did you use ca. 2000?

[SN jef chippewa]

yes, right!
thanks

>Sonata

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[Finale] what other fonts did you use ca. 2000?

[SN jef chippewa]

for those who were doing *contemporary* notation what were the fonts 
you used to supplement your arsenal of default fonts?

the key ones, as far as i remember were:
Fughetta and Tamburo
Toccata
Ghent Percussion
MIDIDesign

any others?  with links to PDF character charts if possible.

rock on
jef

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Re: [Finale] Things to be done in the middle of a bar.

[SN jef chippewa]

not really "mid-bar" change, more like butt-splicing different pieces 
together, each with anacrusis and final "incomplete" measure.  but 
yeah achieved in the same multi-step tasks in finale.

thanks for the reminder that i haven't listened to this piece in awhile :P


>   Change time signature.  I realize this is unusual, but I think it
>can make sense in certain situations.  For example, it can be found
>several times in Beethoven's 31st Piano Sonata, Op. 110, where, in the
>last movement, 12/16 changes to 6/8 mid-bar, then back and forth another
>couple of times, always mid-bar:
>
>http://hz.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a3/IMSLP51805-PMLP01488-Beethoven_Werke_Breitkopf_Serie_16_No_154_Op_110.pdf

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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[SN jef chippewa]

>MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided 
>in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep 
>their online content up-to-date.

i can't speak about why they did this but it is in fact a more 
logical approach, if managed properly.  making corrections and 
updates online means they are immediately available to users, which 
is not the case with print manuals.  again, i am talking about "the 
practice", not MM's practices.

in an ideal world, if the structure of the document is simple (it 
isn't), a harddisk version could be made available to users (a 
different format than online -- implying work/costs) with the option 
to prefer to access the online version when possible.  the user could 
set the programme to auto/manually update as needed so that their 
workflow is not affected when the only online access they have is 
through their mother-in-law's dial-up modem :-)

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Re: [Finale] OFF-TOPIC twirling pipes / magic tube

[SN jef chippewa]

thanks, some fun links by those science guys!

yeah the limit to 5 pitches (2nd-6th partial) 
seems to be the max speed a human can spin the 
thing, and the fundamental is always inaudible.

about the name, what the industry and the users 
call them could be different.  is there actually 
a name on yours?  the sticker on mine says "magic 
sound tube" (german import)


>Hmm. Never actually thought to work out the 
>pitches. They have 5 different tones depending 
>on how fast they are twirled. And they can be 
>blown as well.
>
>Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuGnsW0ysrA for a demo.
>
>And names? Like many percussion instruments they 
>have more than one name - sound hose, twirly, 
>musical sound tubeŠ..

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Re: [Finale] Percussion ghost sounds?

[SN jef chippewa]

found this via a link richard sent for twirly tube thingys, the 
screaming balloons are awesome!

How To Make Spooky Sounds - Cool Science Experiment
https://youtu.be/AkO7telYR_A

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[Finale] twirling pipes / magic tube (was: ghost sounds)

[SN jef chippewa]

well, since richard brought it up, anyone able to verify the pitch of 
theirs for me?  these seem to come in 28" models, would be interested 
to know the variation in pitch.  mine (after a 3.75" piece broke off 
the end) registered the 2nd partial around G4-3/4# (428 Hz)
http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator

also, can you get anything more/less than the 2nd-6th partials?

i am using one in a new piece, and other things played by musicians 
depend on the pitch (variation) of these things.

what are the names used for these things?


>And of course don't forget  that delightful kid's toy - the twirling pipes...
>Ryszard

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Re: [Finale] Percussion ghost sounds?

[SN jef chippewa]

per musician:
2 pcs - 5-ft thick-guage chain
1 pc - 18x24" piece of 3/4" plywood on floor in front of feet

randomly lift/drop chain on wood

or, if they will let you, medium guage chain on the snare with the 
same technique is awesome and more complex (tone changes, plus metal 
clinking on rim adds more types of sound from same action)

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Re: [Finale] Percussion ghost sounds?

[SN jef chippewa]

what about using the lyric tool and entering this text below the 
notes of each player:

"oOoooOOO..."


>I would like to make some "ghost sounds" from the percussion section 
>in a piece I am writing. I know about the single cymbal rolled on a 
>timpani head, which might work, but does anyone have any other 
>suggestions? Thanks!

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Re: [Finale] large time signatures

[SN jef chippewa]

you should also play with the values for "space before" and "space 
after" time sig in the score (Document Options/Time Signatures)

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Re: [Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

it is notated indeed transposed and that is part of the issue, but 
not from the traditional standpoint.  i can choose to transpose the 
keyboard up or down, meaning a G3/4# in the score appears in the part 
as:
1) A when the electronic keyboard is tuned down a quarter tone
2) G# when the electronic keyboard is tuned up a quarter tone

both are "right" (both the same interval of transposition, but in a 
different direction) but in (1) the advantage is that the electronic 
instrument is tuned down, as is the quarter tone vib used in the same 
piece, whereas in (2) the advantage is that pitch names ("G" here) 
remains the same throughout the score.

it only matters for practicality which direction we use, but i need 
to decide before continuing doing the keyboard part.


>Sorry I just don't understand why you don't treat it like a 
>transposing instrument and just notate it as you would a trumpet or 
>alto sax?

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Re: [Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

it is indeed bought tuned down.

the question is notation-related, has nothing to do with playback.

i'm trying to decide what is best in this context, so was wondering 
if anyone else here has ever notated for 1/4-tone electronic 
instruments and if there is any dis/advantage to transposing up vs 
down that maybe i am not seeing.


>Sorry - I understand your question! I just don't understand what the 
>notation issue is unless it's related to playback in Finale?
>
>
>  > On Jul 15, 2017, at 3:00 AM, Ryszard Pusz 
> wrote:
>  > Perhaps my question was misleading. While it is possible to get a 
>tuner to tune a vibraphone up or down a quarter tone, Jef's 
>statement (it comes that way) implied to me that the instrument was 
>bought at that tuning and I was wondering if this was in fact the 
>case.

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Re: [Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

yeah you are right, but this is a trio, not an ensemble or orchestral work.

the part will be written in half-tones (natural, sharps).  the 
question is whether there is any other factor than consistency (e.g., 
1/4-tone vibe and keyboard both transpose down) -- perhaps similitude 
is a more appropriate word here -- or closer correspondence to pitch 
names (keyboard is transposed up, so G3/4# in SC = G# in PT) that i 
might want to take into consideration.


>Consistency?  I think that's irrelevant; after all, in a regular 
>orchestra there are instruments in different keys, the transposing 
>instruments are not all in Bb, but since it is an electronic 
>instrument that is being retuned, there is no problem with strings 
>snapping so I think the decisive factor should be which notation is 
>likely to make the keyboard part easier to read/play, especially if 
>having to switch from keyboard to piano.

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Re: [Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

mmm, i assume you mean in the part.  yeah the part will be "normal" 
(no 1/4 tones), but my question is about something else :-)

>my guess would be, once it is established that the instrument is a 
>quarter tone  detuned, normal notation would work the best.

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Re: [Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

>No suggestions, sorry, but how do you get a vibraphone tuned down a 
>quarter tone?

haha yeah maybe that wasn't clear, it comes that way, so actually 
tuned 1/4 lower than standard vibes

however, if you prefer it to be tuned higher, all you need is a file 
and a lot of elbow grease ;-)

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[Finale] 1/4 tone keyboard notation

[SN jef chippewa]

anyone have any preferences or suggestions about whether to transpose 
up or down?

the musician plays piano as well as keyboard (most likely sitting on 
the piano), the keyboard is tuned 1/4 tone away from the piano.

keyboard in the score is notated using 1/4 and 3/4 sharps (1/4 flats 
used only in rare cases in super tight clusters), so my thinking is 
that tuning up is most logical: G-3/4# in the SC is G# in the PT, 
rather than A.  i'm thinking this would seem easiest for whoever 
reads both SC and PT, but the percussionist plays 2 vibraphones, one 
tuned down a quarter tone, so the composer thinks that is best for 
consistency.

thanks,
jef

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Re: [Finale] make invisible things transparent?

[SN jef chippewa]

hi david, you could possibly (depending on the 
rest of the score) get around that problem more 
effectively by simply dedicating layer 4 (for 
example) to the hidden things in your score and 
setting it globally to not affect spacing. 
another advantage of having your score notation 
(that which is visible) always in layer 1 (and 2 
for piano parts, etc.) is that you would need to 
switch less between layers when 
editing/correcting the score when using tools 
like articulation.

although i suppose you do it the way you 
mentioned with layer 4 set to not play back. 
then i would put all totally normal notation that 
does not require special playback in layer 1 (and 
2), playback notation in layer 4 (set to not 
affect spacing and hide when inactive) and 
"visible" notation for playback in layer 3 
(uncheck stems up if music in other layers), this 
way no need for a staff style to hide layer 4.

cheers,
jef

>  > regarding the spacing, you might find it useful
>>  to integrate {DocOptions/Music Spacing/Avoid
>>  Collision of: Hidden Notes} into what robert
>>  already mentioned.
>
>Another useful trick. Thanks!
>
>>  if you use a specific layer ONLY for those hidden
>>  notes and nowhere else in the score, then
>>  DocOptions/Layers and uncheck "affects spacing"
>>  for that layer.
>
>Actually, this doesn¹t work for my situation, as 
>I am hiding my main layer in these measures. For 
>example, when I use a string of running piano 
>16th notes that are to be held with the hands 
>and tied to a sustained chord (so a tie extends 
>from each 16th note, then those ties are 
>stretched with special tools so all of them 
>reach the chord), the playback is messed up 
>because the notes don¹t sustain and the chord 
>sounds. So, I put the notation the way I want it 
>to look in layer 4, set layer 4 to have a volume 
>of 0 in the score manager, then use a staff 
>style to hide layer 1, which is written the way 
>I¹d write it to get playback correct.

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Re: [Finale] make invisible things transparent?

[SN jef chippewa]

regarding the spacing, you might find it useful 
to integrate {DocOptions/Music Spacing/Avoid 
Collision of: Hidden Notes} into what robert 
already mentioned.

if you use a specific layer ONLY for those hidden 
notes and nowhere else in the score, then 
DocOptions/Layers and uncheck "affects spacing" 
for that layer.

even more geeky, in speedy entry, in the hidden 
layer, opt-click (mac) on the measure and you can 
define which notes affect the music spacing. 
note i have not had 100% success with this in 
other contexts (collisions of layers where i want 
an abnormal positioning of one or both of the 
layers), seems to be only a problem on the 1st 
note in the measure.

you could use a value like 15% or something for 
the "hidden object shading" (prefs/view).  this 
is a global setting, but 15% is faded enough to 
not really disturb and you can still read any 
text that is hidden (e.g., i use a category 
defined with hidden text to make notes in the 
score for myself about workarounds or quirky 
approaches to notating things).



>I'm assuming you know about View->Show->Hidden Notes and Rests. Beyond
>that, there are settings in Preferences->View that give a measure of
>control over how hidden objects display.
>
>On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 1:40 PM, David Froom  wrote:
>
>>  Dear collective wisdom,
>>
>>  I know how to hide things, either one at a time or with staff styles. When
>>  they are hidden, they show up as opaque white things, and mess up the look
>>  of the page. I know they don¹t print, but I like the score I¹m working on
>>  to look like it will when I print. Does anyone know how to make hidden
>>  things also transparent, so they are truly hidden on the screen?
>>
>>  I have tried just sliding them out of the way. With rests or dynamics or
>>  articulations, there is usually an empty spot to put them in. But with
>>  hidden notes (say, with one layer hidden because it is playing correctly
>>  but another layer showing because of how I want it to look), they are just
>>  in the way. If I slide them out of the way with special tools, it messes up
>  > the spacing.

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Re: [Finale] Notation Question/Clarification

[SN jef chippewa]

the last note is a 32nd as well, also in the upper voice -- i see 2 
tiny extensions, the lower one is barely there, but there nonetheless.

i agree with david, just a hastily notated tuplet (there would be no 
need to indicate 8 for 8-let, since they are 32nds...).  and def 
think the 1st notes in LH and RH are meant to be played together. 
the 7 l.v. markings support the 7-let theory as well (the B in RH 
will continue to sound as well because of the pedal, but it is 
incidental, i think, and therefore notating that 8th pitch also as 
l.v. would confuse the musical intention of the RH melody)


>Yes, that looks like it to me. Notice the first six notes are 32nds, 
>while the last note is a 16th, so it does add up. The first note is 
>a different note in the right hand, while the last note is just a 
>unison. You caught the tiny, faded treble clef in the left hand, 
>right?

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Re: [Finale] Expressions

[SN jef chippewa]

i'm trying to remember if i have seen it since 
moving to 2014.5, but certainly nowhere as often 
as in earlier versions.  the finger "gliss" trick 
worked each time for me - sometimes i did LH+RH 
4-3-2-1- repeatedly, just for a little variation 
on the technique :-).

now thinking about this again, it seems (in my 
case, at least) that it was only the number keys 
(above the letters, not numpad) metatools that 
the programme got stuck on.


>In earlier versions of Finale I was able to fix 
>it by first making sure I was saved, and then I 
>ran my hands flat over the keys horizontally 
>several times, hitting every key.  When I then 
>tried to enter an expression, it worked.  But 
>this was back in 2012, 2014, and maybe 2014.5. 
>I haven¹t had it happen in v25, the latestŠyet. 
>I do also recall that the last time it happen, 
>this trick didn¹t work.  But I don¹t recall what 
>version I was in at the time.

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Re: [Finale] Attaching Text Expressions and linked parts.

[SN jef chippewa]

well goddammit that is another fine plugin i clearly don't know 
enough about and will explore better before opening my trap next time 
:P


>Just to be clear: my plugin depends on all the built-in Finale 
>features described in this thread. It just takes them one step 
>further to providing automatic page-level positioning (per 
>part/score). So you create a text expression more or less as 
>described by J.D. Thomas and jef chippewa. But in addition you mark 
>it (using among others the Description) as described in my link. 
>That allows my program to (for example) horizontally center it on 
>the page in every score or part whilst leaving it vertically where 
>it is.
>
>I can't tell you how much this extra step has removed a headache 
>from my Finale-using life.

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Re: [Finale] Attaching Text Expressions and linked parts.

[SN jef chippewa]

if your staff set for tempo changes is set to 
show only on the top staff, you can use this 
already-existing category and change the 
positioning parameters accordingly for the 1st 
movement (and copy and alter for subsequent 
movements).

if the staff set for tempo changes also shows on 
other staves than top only, you can either hide 
them in the SC on the few staves they appear on, 
or create a distinct category as JD suggests.

if only a few movements i would go with the 
existing tempo changes category; if more it will 
be worth setting up a new category.

i am a firm believer in patterson PIs (and 
serious user) but this is actually a case where 
built-in functionality can also be used very 
effectively to achieve exactly what you want.


>If you¹re using a Text Expression instead of 
>Text Box you can create a new category and set 
>the parameters for that category to show top 
>only in the score and all staves in the parts. 
>This is done in the Text Expression dialog.

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Re: [Finale] big time sig, always on top staff

[SN jef chippewa]

make sure the time sig staff is set up to not be hidable

if your top staff changes (sometimes piccolo, sometimes fl, etc.) you 
can apply a staff style to score only.


>I am writing an orchestral score, using big time signatures. So, 
>following instructions on doing this, I have to set, in the staff 
>attributes, to display time signatures only for the first instrument 
>in each family (so, for winds, only piccolo; brass, only horn 1/2, 
>etc.). But when I hide empty staves, the time sigs go away also!
>
>Can Finale be forced to show time signature, at least, for whatever 
>is the top instrument in the score? I tried overriding with the 
>measure tool (always show), but that doesn't bring up the time 
>signature. For you users of big signatures, how do you handle this?

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Re: [Finale] Different type barlines at a specific place

[SN jef chippewa]

klaus, i wish i had the free time on my hands that you seem to have ;-)


> On 16 April 2017 at 17:08 Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre  
> wrote:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/52jjkhys6kvini4/Barlines%20between%20staves.png?dl=0
> You have to set the line thickness in the Smart Shapes tool (Smart Shape 
> options( to the same as the thickness of your barlines (document options).
> Choose the line option in Smart Shapes that can be drawn vertically. Draw it 
> between two staves next to a barline. It will default to the closest beat, 
> but you can drad it on top of the barline between the staves.
> In the selection tool click the bar before the barline and make the original 
> barline invisible.
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Re: [Finale] Different type barlines at a specific place

[SN jef chippewa]

sending again, tried to send a small attachment with the message, but limited 
to 40kb (WAY small) on the list :P -- let me know if you want me to send the 
image privately.

--

OH MY GOD! please do NOT do this if you want the barlines between staves 
globally! there is a barline style in finale since (ouf...?) at least 10 years. 
 select your group bracket and open the dialogue, set "Barlines" to  "Only 
Between Staves (Mensurstriche)"

if you insist on making only some barlines in a given system like that (i have 
in fact needed to in the past), set it up as a shape expression with the 
desired length and thickness.  apply manually each time, not using a metatool, 
otherwise you will have to change every instance if you want them to be thicker 
or longer globally.

barbara, if mensurstriche is *not* what you want, can you share a page of what 
you are working on?

cheers,
jef


> > On 16 April 2017 at 17:08 Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre  
> > wrote:
> > I hope you really need this feature, because I have found a time consuming 
> > manual workaround. I haven‘t done all the necessary adjustments, only 
> > proven the principle in a trio for horns that I am editing. The screen shot 
> > from Finale is here:
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/52jjkhys6kvini4/Barlines%20between%20staves.png?dl=0
> > 
> > You have to set the line thickness in the Smart Shapes tool (Smart Shape 
> > options( to the same as the thickness of your barlines (document options).
> > Choose the line option in Smart Shapes that can be drawn vertically. Draw 
> > it between two staves next to a barline. It will default to the closest 
> > beat, but you can drad it on top of the barline between the staves.
> > In the selection tool click the bar before the barline and make the 
> > original barline invisible.
> > Klaus
> >   From: Barbara Touburg 
> >  To: finale@shsu.edu 
> >  Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2017 3:57 PM
> >  Subject: Re: [Finale] Different type barlines at a specific place
> >
> > On 16-4-2017 15:49, Christopher Smith wrote:
> > > So I used jef chippewa’s suggestion, and after I made all the barlines in 
> > > one system connect, I broke some of them using a staff style. That worked 
> > > perfectly. That is what I suggest.
> > 
> > But I'm looking for a way to draw the barlines *between* the staves and 
> > not *on* the staves.

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Re: [Finale] Different type barlines at a specific place

[SN jef chippewa]

try selecting the entire system (all measures in 
that system) and do it.  this is what i was 
talking about, there is an easy trick to it once 
you get it :-)

>It¹s in the Staff menu >>Groups and Brackets>>Add
>Then there is a popup menu where you can select 
>³Draw barlines only between staves²
>However it didn¹t work. I selected a couple of 
>measures only for a new group, but didn¹t get 
>the barlines between  staves. I am missing 
>something.

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Re: [Finale] Different type barlines at a specific place

[SN jef chippewa]

staff tool :

you can create a group for only 1 measure or a few.  do your layout 
first because the barline appearances depend on the group the 1st 
measure on the system belongs to, as i recall.  i'm away from finale 
at the moment so can't verify 100% the details of what i wrote :P but 
that should get you in the right direction at least

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[Finale] [OT] concert in edmonton with LUX:NM

[SN jef chippewa]

my fellow users of finale will inevitably ask 
about the notation i used for cooking of the 
classic italian tomato sauce?  and what about the 
walnut cracked open, the shell's shards falling 
on the stage?  and are the bike bells notated on 
a pitched 5-line staff or a 1-line percussion 
staff?  and what the hell does "quarter note = 
chicken" mean?!?!?!

=

is that garlic and basil i smell?

come out and join us for an eclectic evening of 
works performed by berlin's LUX:NM contemporary 
music ensemble.  the group is playing works by 
composers from / living in germany, including my 
"cabinet de curiosités", commissioned by LUX in 
2015.
http://facebook.com/jef.chippewa/posts/1439776322708217

the festival opened this evening and runs through sunday.

--

SUNDAY 19 MAR (@19h00) PROGRAMME

Holy Trinity Anglican Church
10037 84 Ave | Edmonton AB
TIX: 
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/now-hear-this-festival-of-new-music-tickets-31957267046

Hector Moro -- Lichtzwang, ein wütendes Spielzeug (2002, rev. 2008)
for trombone, accordion and saxophone

Marcus Antonius Wesselmann -- QUARTETT 4 -- contemplation (2014)
for soprano saxophone, trombone, violin und accordion

Brigitta Muntendorf -- Yes Master (2011)
performance for three female performers, one male performer and tape

Ole Hübner -- music for j.t. #5b: secret snares (2016)
for alto saxophone, trombone, accordion and audio playback


Maximilian Marcoll -- Compound No. 1a: CAR SEX VOICE HONKER (2009)
for solo accordion and electronics

jef chippewa -- cabinet de curiosités (2015)
concert-theatre-fluxus work in 9 parts for 
saxophone, accordion, violin, trombone and sound 
objects
cabinet de curiosités was commissioned by LUX:NM


LUX:NM's performance in Now Hear This is made 
possible through the kind support of the 
Goethe-Institut.
http://luxnewmusic.de | http://facebook.com/LUXNMberlin

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Re: [Finale] Finger snap and patsch symbols

[SN jef chippewa]

> On 25 February 2017 at 21:53 Christopher Smith 
>  wrote:
> This is certainly possible in Finale, even easy. is that the only problem you 
> have?

heh heh... well, no. do you want a list?
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Re: [Finale] Finger snap and patsch symbols

[SN jef chippewa]

100% in favour of 1-line staff (not as an extra, do it as a staff style) as 
robert proposed.  also the use of normal noteheads.  however, if the clapping 
is in a staff that has also music in another layer then yeah, do it (e.g.) in 
layer 3 with layer 3 prefs stems up.  and in that case, x-noteheads.  if your 
pitched instrument requires ledger lines you just have to be clever about where 
and when to use the hide ledger lines PI.

christopher, thanks for the faith, but i'm afraid i'm not aware of a notation 
standard for children snapping fingers and slapping themselves 8-)

> On 25 February 2017 at 22:23 Lee Dengler  wrote:
> I know how to put a symbol above a note.  I just need to settle on what the 2 
> symbols will be.  I just looked up "hiding ledger lines" and discovered the 
> plug-in.  That will not be a problem if I end up doing it that way.  Again, 
> thanks for your help.
> Lee
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Christopher Smith
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 3:53 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finger snap and patsch symbols
> 
> This is certainly possible in Finale, even easy. is that the only problem you 
> have?
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> > On Sat Feb 25, at SaturdayFeb 25 3:33 PM, Lee Dengler 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks, Christopher, for your quick reply.  The issue which I failed to 
> > mention is that they occur while the children are singing and there is 
> > little room on the score for extra staves.  I will need to figure out a way 
> > to have the notes hanging above the vocal stave.  I guess I was hoping 
> > there might be a symbol I could place above the stave, rather than an 
> > actual note which would create ledger lines.  
> > Lee
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On 
> > Behalf Of Christopher Smith
> > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 12:07 PM
> > To: finale@shsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Finger snap and patsch symbols
> > 
> > If it is actually for children to read, it might be better to use 
> > more-or-less standard notation. That would be X-head notes with an English 
> > text just above saying “finger snap”. I usually see this on the 3rd space 
> > of the staff when it is JUST finger snaps. For the side pat, you should 
> > probably put the X-head note on a different space (probably lower) to 
> > differentiate it, but still with the text.
> > 
> > I doubt there is anything truly standard, but if there is, jef chippewa 
> > would know it!
> > 
> > Christopher
> > 
> > 
> >> On Feb 25, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Lee Dengler  wrote:
> >> 
> >> I am writing a piece for children that has side pats (patsch) and 
> >> finger snaps.  The side pats occur on beats 1 & 3 and the finger 
> >> snaps on beats 2 & 4.  Does anyone know if there is a commonly used 
> >> symbol for these two motions?

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Re: [Finale] Break stem

[SN jef chippewa]

add lines in shape designer that correspond to the thickness of your document's 
staff lines.  add the expressions to your template and if your staff lines are 
3.5 EVPU in one document and 3 or 4 in another you can always change easily, 
once the thing is set up right.

seriously, this will be WAY less effort than layers (2 notes/stems per rest), 
especially since you have cross-staff happening and what if you ever have to go 
back and edit...


> On Sun, February 19, 2017 2:51 pm, Barbara Touburg wrote:
> > On 19-2-2017 20:31, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> >> Shape designer came up with the character (staff + rest + opaque block)
> >> except
> >> that the staff lines character doesn't line up with the staff lines,
> >> probably
> >> because I've set the staff line thickness different from the default.
> >
> > Then you need to look in the document settings, lines and curves, to see
> > your staff line settings. I think you are using 3.5. Draw lines in the
> > shape designer of that thickness and place them on the background.
> 
> I'm in the habit of changing my lines and curves as projects move forward to
> improve the overall look, so that won't work. Back to the music layer kludge
>  SO wish we had graphics layers for every object (at the least, bring to
> front / bring forward / send backward / send to back).
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Re: [Finale] Break stem

[SN jef chippewa]

add staff lines on top of your opaque square ;-) (same trick i use for time sig 
denominators like 6, 10, 12...)

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Re: [Finale] Mac 2014.5 confusion

[SN jef chippewa]

>Where is the command to keep the staff spacing you made in scroll view when
>you go to page view  I think I remember that it was something like "retain
>spacing in page view" but I'm probably wrong.

staff tool -> staff menu/staff spacing and in the dialogue box that 
opens up there is an option to set to scroll view spacing.  terms 
could be named differently, am not in finale at the moment to verify.


>I am using command x to delete just the notes in a single measure (or more
>than one) when there is notation in the other staves.

not sure what the question here is...

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Re: [Finale] Copying overfilled measures

[SN jef chippewa]

even quicker is to select the measure(s) and (on mac) opt-click the destination 
start measure. ah, make sure to select "copying mirrors measures" in the mirror 
menu, otherwise it just makes copies (default setting) like normal.

> On 03 February 2017 at 04:31 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, February 2, 2017 7:51 pm, SN jef chippewa wrote:
> > and notation/convert mirrors as needed
> > mirror tool :-)
>
> Got it. All the copying of layers has to be done *before* converting the
> mirrors. Apparently it won't mirror to measures that aren't empty.
>
> But it still needs to be done is small chunks of measures. Too many measures
> and it blows up just like regular copying does.
>
> Small chunks I can do!
>
> Thanks again!
>
> D
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] Copying overfilled measures

[SN jef chippewa]

and notation/convert mirrors as needed

> mirror tool :-)
> 
> > How do I keep Finale from rebarring these copied sections?
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Re: [Finale] Copying overfilled measures

[SN jef chippewa]

mirror tool :-)

> On 02 February 2017 at 23:54 Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> There was a solution to this, I think, but I can't remember it.
>
> I have a score with a number of 'overfilled' measures (invisible barlines,
> notes that rhythmically overlap -- for example, a whole note on the last
> quarter note, and the next bar with three hidden quarter-note rests). These
> overfilled measures are different from part to part.
>
> What I'm doing is creating a piano reduction, and to do that I need to copy
> the measures exactly to staves below. (I'll later use layer visibility to
> merge two sets of notes onto one staff -- but I haven't gotten that far yet!)
>
> When these measures are copied (either dragged or CTL-C/CTL-V), they shift the
> entire score to the right by the amount of the overfilled measures.
>
> I've tried using the Edit Filter with all bar features turned off. The
> Patterson mass-copy plugin doesn't copy the notes.
>
> How do I keep Finale from rebarring these copied sections?
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
>
>
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