[Fink-devel] Adding bit-torrent to download options for fink, yes/no? Vote, comment. Thank you

[David H.]

Hello all.

I am finally in a position where I could offer a full Master mirror as
a bittorrent mirror. This is due to the fact that I have now
infrastructure which I could donate to Fink.
I do nto know whether this is a good idea or even something desirable,
so I am waiting on your input.

Thank you very much

-d

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[Fink-devel] Would you like to see Fink listed on http://hackontest.org/ ?

[David H.]

Hello all.

Before I go and plead the case to the ones who can do development on
the fink main sources, I would love to know whether you would want to
see us listed as a project on
http://hackontest.org/

Thank you very much


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[Fink-devel] Help us improve our Wikipedia exposure.

[David H.]

Dear Friends of Fink.

Like most of the well known "brands" and "tools" in the world Fink has
a page within the vast space that is Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fink

Fink currently does receive traffic from that page attracting people
to the wonderful world of Fink.
For February 2008 around 460 unique visits were referred from en.wikipedia.com

I would like to improve that writing, but I cannot do that without a
proper peer review. Right now the article is rated B, I would love for
it to be formally vetted to go up to GA or even A status.
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Free_software/Assessment

If you feel that you can contribute to the article, please do post
your comments on the discussion area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fink or submit your ideas here on
this list.

Thank you very much!

dmalloc
FDN guy, PR guy.


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Re: [Fink-devel] [Fink-users] Fink going down the drain? --> was (New packages in tracker ).

[David H.]

>
> Help is available from three groups:
> 1) Software in the Public Interest
> 2) Software Freedom Law Center
> 3) the open source foundations mailing list
>
Thank you, I will put some work into that, researching those possibilities.

> For (3), let me know who in Fink is leading the NPO effort and I'll subscribe
> you.
>
That would be me. Please feel free to use my email.

> My suggestion is that you either join SPI or the SFLC conservancy until you
> can raise some money.  Then you can use that money to do a real
> incorporation.
The question for us is more about how to deal with the tax incurred
through raising the money. We are quite sure that our quite
exceptional members would use a donation button if we put one up.
PayPal already gave us clearance for that. But we do not know how to
declare this income in the tax forms of the person who will receive
the funds.

> I know from bitter personal experience that in addition to
> the up-front cash and time, running a 501(c)3 in the US requires a member of
> your project to spend 50 to 100 hours a year doing paperwork, plus board
> meetings, etc.  So it's not something you want to rush into.
Thank you. I will do my best to look at the SPI and SFLC. We are all
well aware of the time we will need to spend on paperwork and meetings
and I am mnroe than happy to take up the paperwork part.
Would you be willing to share more of your experience with us?

> Oh, and for my part, I think fink is better than ever.
>
Thank you, encouraging words are always appreciated.

-d

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[Fink-devel] Fink going down the drain? --> was (New packages in tracker ).

[David H.]

Hello all.

First of all let me take the opportunity to welcome the discussion
around Fink, how we are being perceived as a project and what we can
improve on.
Some know me, some do not. My name is David (dmalloc) and I spend most
of my time researching how to make Fink more accessible to our users,
how to ensure that we have a working infrastructure and I also
maintain some packages (zsh, hercules, gsasl...)

I would like to confirm to everyone here that Fink, as a project, is
very much alive. We, as a core group of people, have a vested interest
in ensuring that Fink as a project can continue to exist. Right now
Fink is at a turning point, where we will seriously need to think
about making decisions on how to take things forward. That has mostly
to do with the size of the project and the many, many people involved.

We are all doing this in our spare time. The things we need to pay for
(such as domain names and the like) are paid for by us, from our money
(usually it is somone that volunteers to pick up the tab).

What we have been working on but never finished can be derived from
the wiki but has never been really publicised. If you have a look on
the wiki: http://wiki.finkproject.org/index.php/The_Fink_Wiki you will
see a section titled:
Fink Developer Network

This is our attempt at registering a not-for-profit, tax exempt
company which could help us take Fink to the next level. It would
enable us to improve our level of service, it would also enable us to
put a better system in place to acquire funds which will then benefit
the community as a whole. Right now we are struggling with that
project.
One of the reasons is money. Registering such a company, filing all
the paperwork and doing it right requires a lawyer. Lawyers are
expensive. So while the FDN exists as a registered company in the USA,
it is not fully registered yet nor tax exempt (which can take years).
The second, most predominant reason is a limitation in time. We are
spread over the globe and we are all busy in our jobs. Sitting down,
having a chat, a phone conference and getting things moved forward is
not as easy as it seems. I should know, I have been trying for a long
time.

I hope that we will get better at this, now that Leopard is out and we
have some important bits out of the way, we can once more start
focusing on this.
I apologise to any user that feels left out and not valued. I
apologise to anyone that has not had their package reviewed yet. We
value what you are doing, it is important to us and helps us move
forward.

This is an open process. Can you help with FDN? Can you help with
funds? Are you a lawyer or know one? I will make myself available and
we can, together, core team members and YOU as well, move this
forward.#

PS: Cross posted to ALL lists, please only respond to one. Thank you!

David H.
FDN Board Member
Fink Admin type of guy
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[Fink-devel] Are you the one that wrote a working Fink Installer for 10.5, please raise your hand!

[David H.]

Hello All.

I am looking for the person that managed to write a working Installer
for 10.5 and fink. Basically to install what you would get after a
bootstrap.

Thank you!

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[Fink-devel] Join Fink on LinkedIn

[David H.]

Hello everyone.

To make it even easier to stay together and exchange information a
group called Fink has been created on LinkedIn
It is easy to join if you are already a LinkedIn user, simply follow
this link: http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/58809/4FAC78341DFD

We realise that communities need to exist in different areas and in
different ways. Hopefully this will be a good way to stay together,
exhchange information and learn who else is interested in using Fink.

Thank you
dmalloc (David H.)
Fink PR/Administrativa
FDN Board

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Re: [Fink-devel] swish-e in fink?

[David H.]

> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:44:34 -0500
> From: "J Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Fink-devel] swish-e in fink?
> To: fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello, Fink Developers:
>
> I was wondering if swish-e could be added to fink. I am in contact with some
> of the core developers of swish-e and am pretty sure they'd be willing to
> make reasonable changes to swish-e for integration with fink, if that's
> needed.
>
> Please let me know your thoughts!  Swish-e in fink would be really useful to
> me.
>

I just had a cursory glance. All of the dependencies needed to build
swish-e are already included in Fink. Please feel free to submit an
info file for inclusion. More information on how to build an info file
and submit your package can be found on http://finkproject.org/

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Re: [Fink-devel] Fink-devel Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1

[David H.]

>
> Friends -
> I'm working on an update to the aspectj port, and I need advice on
> what to fill in for the License field.  The current value is OSI-
> Approved, which is probably incorrect.  AspectJ (TM) is distributed
> under the EPL, which is OSI-Approved, but it includes Third Party
> Content licensed under the Apache Software License (also OSI-
> Approved).  It also includes ASM v2.2.1, which is licensed by INRIA
> under the following conditions:
>
The license you have shown looks like a BSD Type license, which is
OSI-Approved, so I think you are fine with what you have.

-d

David H.
Fink PR/Admin
FDN Board

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[Fink-devel] Nominate Fink on Sourceforge

[David H.]

Hello all.

Sourceforge has started their 2007 Community Choice Awards.

If you think that Fink deserves to be mentioned, please visit our
project page on SF and nominate us.

Or click this link:
http://sourceforge.net/awards/cca/nomination.php?group_id=17203&from=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Ffink%2F

You NEED to be logged into your SF account for this to work.

Thank you!

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Re: [Fink-devel] Should the PDB have these features?

[David H]

Daniel Macks  netspace.org> writes:


> A "direct download link" for...fink itself (I weakly don't like, and
> am happy without it)? The package .info (is implemented in the PDB
> redesign, but is virtually useless for the general public as I think
> you intend)? The existing doc page explaining how to get fink (I
> weakly like, and am also happy without)?

A direct download to the current binary distribution. The reason 
for that is a usability one.
I have noticed that we have many click paths which look like this:

visit PDB, do search, look at package page, (go back), go to 
download page, download.
We could easily shorten that down to
visit PDB, do search, look at package page, download

Obviously there is alos a reaosn of tracking statistics 
based on which package triggered a download. 
Which could be used to motivate the maintainer :)




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[Fink-devel] Should the PDB have these features?

[David H.]

Hello Community.

Should the PDB have these two features?

When you search for something and the link below is returned:
http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/whatevername
as the search result is being generated should we offer a direct download link?

If the PDB had this feature how would you feel?
I would be super happy!
It must be that way
I do not really care
I dislike that idea!

If the PDB did NOT have this feature how would you feel?
I would be super happy!
It must be that way
I do not really care
I dislike that idea!

(please answer BOTH questions).

When you search for something and NO package is found, should the PDB
offer a little form or a link so that you can request that package?

If the PDB had this feature how would you feel?
I would be super happy!
It must be that way
I do not really care
I dilsike that idea!

If the PDB did NOT have this feature how would you feel?
I would be super happy!
It must be that way
I do not really care
I dislike that idea!

(please answer BOTH questions).

Thank you

David Hoehn
FDN Board member, PR dude.

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[Fink-devel] Some fun statistics on the PDB

[David H.]

Dear Community.

Fink has been using google-analytics for a while now to keep track of
what is going on on finkproject.org and pdb.finkproject.org

Ultimatively we would like to use the gathered Data to better
understand what the community seeks when visiting the web-site and
then improve it with that data in mind.
However it will be a while until the partners who do this together
with us as pro-bono work will be ready, so here are some fun
statistics in the mean while.

These statistics cover the time line from 20th of April 2007 to 20th
of May 2007.

Top Ten Viewed Packages:
   unique views
ethereal   2,064
wireshark 2,031
svn 1,936   
gimp21,315  
httrack  680
svn-client 555
xchat374
quartz-wm 361
rdesktop 360
fink336

Number of unique Visitors: 44,618
Number of returning Visitors: 12,582

56.90% of our traffic comes from referring sites, where
finkproject.org accounts for 30.07% of the traffic.

The main english landing page generated 14,855 unique page views and
the whole web-site generated 121,930 unique page views.

38,572 visits seem to have been from people able to speak English and
at least one spoke Hindi.

There are lots more information, I just thought I should share these
for a quick chuckle

David H.
FDN Board Member


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Re: [Fink-devel] To Alexey Zakhlestin

[David H.]

On 20/04/07, Alexey Zakhlestin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> well… I would like to start with something not-too-difficult. And
> looks like "monthly status update" blog is something I would be able
> to cope with.
>
Hello Alexey

I am keeping the Email list in the loop as this might be interesting to others.
I am more than happy to support you and we at Fink do not mind how
small your contribution is, it is welcome.

> I am going to try to make a "pilot version" which will include events
> of april. We will see if it will be difficult and if I succeed :)
>
That sounds very good. If you want to make it a version which is
"officially endorsed" would you mind running it past me or the other
core members first? If you simply want to do this as a personal
project, then please by all means do that, it sounds very nice.

> I, myself, do not have enough time for really big tasks, but I would
> be interested in developing infrastructure, which will make it easier
> for others to step into process.
>
Yes, that would be more than lovely. If we can help by providing
bandwidth or a blog engine, please let us/me know.

> For me, Fink is the most important OS-X application. So, I am
> definitely interested in it's development :-)
>
Thank you.

-d

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[Fink-devel] To Alexey Zakhlestin

[David H.]

Dear Alexey.

As you might have learned from the web-page I am the guy who used to
do a lot of the PR and administrative work around getting Fink into
the mass media. I say I used to, because I have not been doing it much
over the last couple of months. There have been some significant
changes in my life I had to cater for.

However your desire to bring more concise information on a regular
basis out to the user base is something I can only second. If you feel
that you have enough desire to further go down that road, then I will
make sure to do anything in my powers to support you from our side.

There are various ways of going about what you were suggestion, the
most common problem we have is content. All of the fink-core members
and even people like myself are already very busy with the main issues
surrounding fink and Fink as a project. We welcome any kind of help.

This does not only extend to a possible re-design of the Fink
web-site, better news coverage and a better integration of your user
base (like users,finkproject.org) or better work on the local level.

If you wan to get involved with the issues around having Fink
operational as a project, please have a look at:
http://wiki.finkproject.org/index.php/The_Fink_Wiki
Fink Developer Network section

Thank you

dmalloc
PR guy

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[Fink-devel] Regarding the statistics gathering and privacy.

[David H.]

Dear Asko.

As someone who watches the legal side of what Fink is doing I can assure 
you that we cannot retain any information which would enable us to 
identify the user. Legally that would put too many obligations on us and 
to have significant statistics that is not necessary. However, assigning 
a unique ID might be interesting as that would minimise the amount of 
fraud (false submissions) that could happen.

A unique ID would be able to identify the machine that submits, but not 
the user or the owner of said machine.

-d

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Re: [Fink-devel] gnupg2

[David H.]

Cory, Benjamin, go ahead and touch my packages, I do not have time for 
that right now.

-d

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[Fink-devel] Cross posting.

[David H.]

 > I'd like to see a feature that'd slap people for stupidly
 > cross-posting...

Dear Timothy,

I am sorry that my cross-posting has offended you. The message was sent 
twice on accident. Please also note that I stated quite clearly that 
this message has been cross posted. The reason for that is very simple.

I wanted to hear about features from the User perspective as well as the 
developer perspective. Those two mailing lists do have a slightly 
different user-base.

I will make sure to more carefully tailor my emails in the future.

D. Hoehn
Fink PR Dude

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[Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David H.]

Dear community.

Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For 
the developers as well as the users.

I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this 
thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has progressed and 
the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am planning 
on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.

This should help the development team to make a conscious and very 
informed decision what new features should be implemented and how quickly.

So please spill your thoughts:

What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?

Thank you!

D. Hoehn
Fink PR Dude
FDN Board member

PS: Please reply only to ONE list! This has been cross posted to save time!

-d

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[Fink-devel] What feature would you like to see in fink/Fink?

[David H]

Dear community.

Reading the Wiki we have some very technical ideas on how to improve 
fink. This thread is meant for you and the quirks you have noticed. For 
the developers as well as the users.

I will try to track all the feature requests that I might see in this 
thread. They will be added to the Wiki and once time has progressed and 
the team has decided that some of them make a lot of sense I am planning 
on holding a survey on the features that have been chosen.

This should help the development team to make a conscious and very 
informed decision what new features should be implemented and how quickly.

So please spill your thoughts:

What feature would you _love_ to see in fink/Fink?
Why (give us a short example what it would make easier for you)
How do you feel the rest of the community would benefit from your request?

Thank you!

D. Hoehn
Fink PR Dude
FDN Board member

PS: Please reply only to ONE list! This has been cross posted to save time!

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Re: [Fink-devel] SUMMARY: fink vs. alternatives (long) (thanks Neil)

[David H]

 >I went to the web site and looked at the packages without  .
 >aintainers. It was 11 pages long, for a total of 503 packages out of
 >6435 listed in my install.  That is 7.8%, which on the face of it
 >does not seem bad.  However, this list is growing fast.  The last
 >time I looked, the list had a dozen or so packages.  Plus, how many
 >maintainers have not bothered to update their packages to not
 >maintained?  It would be interesting to see the number of packages
 >without maintainers graphed over time.

I am sure you could gather a lot of useful statistics and we could draw 
a lot of fancy graphs. What you would probably reveal is what everybody 
knows. Packages are maintained best when the maintainer uses them on a 
daily basis. I have proted quite a few packages that I do not use myself 
and I will admit that I sometimes really do not care whether they are 
current or not.

This is also based on the fact that I rarely get feedback. If I knew 
that my package is widely used I have a commitment to that small users 
base that my package has. As a diligent person I would be more obliged 
to actually update those packages then.

The dynamics behind maintainership, frequency of updates current status 
of a package is surely a very difficult haze to go trough.


 >So for me the issue is currency.  If the package is not current for
 >any reason (lack of maintainer, or latency by the maintainer) then
 >alternatives are used.

While I absolutely understand where you are coming from, I do sometimes 
feel that people are lazy. Fink is a community effort, Fink is a 
community driven project. If the maintainer is slow, but you need a 
package to be more current, the HELP (this is not directled at you 
personally). Get the package up to speed, submit it to the tracker, 
write a mail to devel and submit a copy to the maintainer. That should 
and WILL be picked up.

A maintainer does not mean that you cannot, under no circumstances, 
touch a package. Such help is _very_ welcome. So please use this as a 
tool to further things. Especially with people like Benjamin who 
maintain a 'shit load' of packages.

 >Some suggestions:

 >1. Some packages could be updated automatically without maintainer
 >intervention.  Especially in unstable.  Maybe this should be a
 >different tree.  The point being that once a .info file is approved,
 >why should it require maintainer interaction for point upgrades.
 >This becomes even more true with the ability to automatically run the
 >test suites.

Good ideas, but this requires infrastructure. Something we do not have 
right now. We do have a X86 system that has been sponsored, but this 
would have to run on a Mac OS X machine. Right now this also would have 
to run on Intel and PPC machines and it would have to build for 10.3 and 
10.4

That is a long list, but I agree with you, it is a possibility.

 >2.  There should be some way to clean out the junk (old versions) and
 >maintain availability of the old info file should someone want to
 >update it. One option would be another tree for old and
 >unmaintained.  Once the fink release is out-of-date the package
 >should be moved.  Another option would be better to have an out-of-
 >date flag.  This benefits me as a user, but probably does not benefit
 >Fink.  But then again what is good for the user is probably also good
 >for Fink in the long run.

I do not quite understand what you mean by that?

 >3. Have an automated way to test package submissions and approve them
 >with the exception of the MD5.  This should only be set by known
 >maintainers.  This reduces the work and improves the response time
 >for new maintainers.

Same issue as above. This requires infrastructure. This ideas actually 
has been discussed and you should be able to find it on the Wiki.

 >4. Find other ways to reduce the amount of time required for
 >maintainers.

Agreed and I will be the first one to help and support such efforts. I 
would also do my best to adopt into an official 'Fink' effort.

 >Fink is an elegant solution.  But if Fink packages are not current or
 >if they are a limited quantity then Fink will languish.  Which is not
 >my preference.

I do not think quantity is an issue. There is still a substantial gap 
between Fink and most other packaging systems when you include unstable. 
If could be an asshole and simply state that whether Fink vanishes or 
not is in the hands of the community, as we are a special purpose 
project and nothing mainstream like Mozilla, but that would mean I am 
oversimplifying things.

I agree with you, something needs to be done, so please keep the ideas 
flowing. If you know someone that would be willing to provide, sponsor 
or donate Infrastructure, hardware, money, time, then please let me (us) 
know.

David
Fink PR dude
FDN Board member.

Neil

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[Fink-devel] Fink Improvements was (SUMMARY: fink vs. alternatives)

[David H]

Dear Developers and Users.

In the wake of the ongoing discussion I am going to offer myself as an 
archiver.

The Fink Wiki is of course there for everyone to add their ideas and 
improvements, but history has shown that human mankind is 'lazy'

I will track the threads and I will try to extract the necessary ideas 
on how to improve Fink, however you can also submit those ideas to my 
private Fink account:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

As far as funding and other sponsoring arrangements go, there are 
already various ideas on the Wiki, please _review_ them before you make 
your own to avoid duplication.

Thank you

D. Hoehn
Fink PR dude, FDN Board member.

-d

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Re: [Fink-devel] fink vs. the alternatives

[David H.]

 >Hi folks:

Hello Bill.

 >Periodically, I see posted on other mailing lists or bulletin boards
 >a question like "should I use fink or Darwinports or ..."?  I'm not
 >sure what it says about my state of mind, but I always read these and
 >come away somewhat disappointed, because fink often seems to take a
 >beating.

 From a marketing point of view this should concern me. Somehow it does not.
MOst of the comments and statements I have read are either incorrect or 
they work from the wrong assumptions.

For example not understanding how our stable tree really works and that 
there is a good reason for it to be so 'outdated'.

 >Of the replies, I seem to be the only person who likes fink.

Probably because most do not bother to answer any more. Fink is still 
the one project that offers most packages. Sooner or later most end up 
with the system that we emply for the community.

 >(When I first started grad school a thousand years ago, I met someone
 >who told me he was from Brooklyn.  I said I had never been there. His
 >reply was "That's ok.  You don't need Brooklyn, and Brooklyn doesn't
 >need you.)

Unfortunately that attitude is something we cannot cultivate.
There are many things we could do for better Public relations, 
unfortunately the fink core team is a bit slow in the decision making 
process when it comes to deciding how to further FDN and get the 
necessary to fund such efforts.

 >I wonder if this is something we should worry about, or whether we
 >should be like my grad student friend?  I noticed rather few had
 >anything of substance to say, but there were references to fink being
 >more cumbersome, the "unstable" branch being the only one up to date,
 >etc.

No, I would not worry about it. I do not see that these sporadic message 
have any say in tipping the scale on the opinion one of the majority 
might have about Fink. However if we can identify the key criticsm then 
we can counter act with information management.

 >Is it worth assessing how fink is presented to the user community, or

I think I have a pretty good picture of that.

 >the demarcation between stable and unstable (or even whether the name
 >"unstable", which I assume is inherited from debian, really conveys
 >the intended message)?

Yes this is indeed something that we might review.

 >Sorry in advance if I am just being neurotic about this.

You are most welcome and I do love to see such concerns coming up from 
the community, usually I am the one and I was alone with it :)

-d

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[Fink-devel] Your help please - Hosting services thata llow rsync.

[David H.]

Hello community.

If you know of a hosting service which allows rsync as one of their 
hosting services, please let me know. Make sure that you include contact 
data and if you know beforehand, what country/state the service would be 
hosted in/on.

Thank you very much

-d

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[Fink-devel] Fink MIrror Report (Thank you Jesse)

[David H.]

Hello.

I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of most of the Problems
that you reported Jesse.

My main concern is to always ensure the availability of the Master
Servers, while the children should be self organised. Much to my
demise I have to admit that I have not put much time lately into
checking the children. Dead children should simply be removed from the
mirror rotation, that is also a reason why we have that as an
installable info file.

If you feel you have the time and you are interested in writing a set
of scripts which performs those checks automatically,. warns the
maintainer and adheres to a simple three strikes out rule engine,.
then please let me know.

-d

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[Fink-devel] Hello scientists and students, your input please

[David H.]

Dear selected community (tricky ehy...)

It know that Fink has had a significant impact on the scientific
community. There are a couple of packages which are in darwinports but
not inf Fink and I would like to get a handle on how popular those
missing packages are in the scientific computing communtiy. Th elist
is below, if you could comment, I would very much appreciate it.

archimedes 0.0.4
semiconductor design tool

boinc 4.11
Software for distributed computing.

CosmicDebris 1.6
Aurora Borealis monitor.

electric 7.00
CAD system for VLSI circuit design


gerris 0.9.2
The Gerris Flow Solver


k3dsurf 0.5.3
Multidimensional surface visualizer

lam 7.1.1
Local Area Multicomputer MPI implementation


libquantum 0.2.4
library for the simulation of a quantum computer

libstree 0.4.2
generic suffix tree implementation,

linsmith 0.9.2
linSmith is a Smith Charting program, mainly designed for educational use.

mapm3 3
cli tool for calculating Quantitative

minc 1.4
This package contains tools to manipulate MINC files.

mpich 1.2.7
Message Passing Interface (MPI) Library

mpich2 1.0.3
Message Passing Interface (MPI) Library

ng-spice rework-15c
Circuit simulator based on Spice 3f5


opencv 0.9.7
Intel(R) Open Source Computer Vision Library

openmpi 1.0.2
A High Performance Message Passing Library

pvm 3.4.5
pvm permits a network of computers to act as a cluster


py-gsl 0.2.0
Python interface to the GNU scientific library

py-nltk 1.4.4
Natural Language Toolkit

py-scientific 2.4.9
Scientific Python

py-tables 1.3.1
Python package for users to organize scientific data tables

rb-bioruby 0.6.2
Integrated environment for bioinformatics.


tempo 1.1.4
TEMPO (Topographic Eeg Mapping PrOgram)

thccalc 0.23
thccacl calculates the THC content in a person's blood

tree-puzzle 5.2
a computer program to reconstruct phylogenetic trees from
molecular sequence data by maximum likelihood

upcc 2.2.2
extension of C for high performance parallel computing

vbpp 1.1.0
Verilog preprocessor

vbs 1.4.0
Verilog Behavioral Simulator

xastir 1.8.0
Amateur Radio APRS tracking software


xloops current
A Program for Calculating Feynman Diagrams

xplot 0.90.7.1
xplot was written in the late 1980s to support the analysis of TCP
packet traces.

xtide 2.8.2
Tide prediction software, with a large database of locations.


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[Fink-devel] Gone every 60 seconds - Fink 0.8.1 is a big success

[David H.]

Dear Community.

Having reviewed our download statistics over the last consecutive
seven days, Fink 0.8.1 has been downloaded once every 60 seconds on
average. That means Fink 0.8,1 has been downloaded over 10.000 times
in just seven days.

Not only should that make us feel good, it shows how loyal the Fink
community is and that Fink is an active and growing Open Source
project.

This release is the hard work of many volunteers, too many to address
in person, yet I would like to take this opportunity to name a few
from my perspective.

Daniel Macks - For his continued hard work to improve fink (our
package manager Perl program)

David R. Morrison - For his continued hard work to make binary
releases such as Fink 0.8.1 happen

Benjamin Reed - For his continues hard work on KDE, his porting
efforts and the various extra tidbits he supplies us with.

Fink Todai team - For their continued hard work to support Japanese
users and the many packages they contribute and maintain.

Alexander Hansen and Michèle Garoche - for their continued hard work
to keep our documentation readable and up-to date.

Baba Yoshihiko - For his continued hard work on many aspects of the
Fink website.

Chris Zubrzycki - For his continued hard work to support and make the
Fink Developer Network happen.

I would like to thank everybody else that has not been stated
explicitly as well. Fink is a group effort, without our community we
would have not come this far. Everyone and every little bit helps us
to make Fink better for everyone. This includes our sponsors, be it
hardware or monetary donation as well as the many free and educational
services that help us in providing our community with a reliable
mirroring system.

Thank you for being part of an exceptional community. You are all
responsible for making Fink 0.8,1 happen.

David Hoehn
Fink PR
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Re: [Fink-devel] Spread the word! Get us backlinks for your favourite package!

[David H.]

In reply to my own email :)

>
> Go to the homepage of that package.
> Check whether they provide a link to Fink's homepage. These backlinks
> are very important as search engines calculate our pagerank based on
> that.
> If there is no link, get in touch with the author of the software or
> the web-team and ask them respectfully to add a link.
> Explain to them why you would like to see that link and why it would
> be beneficial to their Mac user base.
>
As this is meant to be a clever marketing ploy to push the pagerank of
the main Fink homepage. Make sure you urge them to supply a link to:

http://finkproject.org/download.php OR the direct link to the page in
the Package Database.

Thank you!

-d

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[Fink-devel] Spread the word! Get us backlinks for your favourite package!

[David H.]

Hello Community.

Popularity is an important factor when it comes to driving an open
source project. Popularity and visitors to an open source project's
home page attract sponsors. Sponsors pay money so that we can ensure
Fink services its community better.

If you have a package in Fink that you maintain or you have an
application that you love to use, there is an easy way for you to help
us.

Go to the homepage of that package.
Check whether they provide a link to Fink's homepage. These backlinks
are very important as search engines calculate our pagerank based on
that.
If there is no link, get in touch with the author of the software or
the web-team and ask them respectfully to add a link.
Explain to them why you would like to see that link and why it would
be beneficial to their Mac user base.

Once you have done that and you succeeded, enjoy a cool drink of your
preference and post your success story to one of our mailing lists.

-d


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[Fink-devel] Send a testimonials. - Get listed on the Fink Website.

[David H.]

Dear Community.

Customer Feedback and statements on the quality of a product or
service that come directly from the community are very important for
any company that tries to make money.

They are equally important to us. Your opinion matters, because what
you think of us as a project can very well influence the decisions
others make.

I am looking for your user testimonials.
Short, precise statements that include a simple set of basic questions
covered are most likely to be included:

Why (e.g. I am a Professor for applied molecular science, I use blah blah..)
How has it changed your work/private Mac experience (e.g. Using Fink
makes it easier for me to deploy all the necessary scientific software
on my Macintosh)
What (e.g. Fink's vast amount of scientific packages made it my first choice)

Feel free to include more general statements as well.
No statement will go unmentioned, I plan on creating a testimonials
web-page that will hold ALL submitted statements, however, the ones
that are more likely to influence other people in the same field of
work (for example scientists) will be featured more prominently.

This is not meant to be a marketing to ploy, we are not interested in
making money. Good Press and good user testimonials make us a more
valuable choice for possible sponsors, which will allow us to do more
for our community.
Please be honest, mean what you write and do not forget to include the
following information:
Name
Occupation
Location
Fink user since:

Please also include:
"I, your name, hereby grant the Fink Developer Network right of use
and enjoyment of all statements made below:"

Thank you very much!

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[Fink-devel] Furthering our German speaking community, can you help?

[David H.]

Dear Community

I have carefully reviewed the statistics that we generate for our
Package Database and the recent articles published for our Release of
version 0.8.1

In doing that I have noticed that German spoken countries are the
second largest community using our service, as such I would like to
improve our services in their native tongue. This of course mainly
applies to documentation and all the items that we would have to
translate.

I am a native German speaker myself and I have to admit that I am
rather lazy when it comes to translating the web-site and keeping it
up to date, that is why I am asking for help.
Are any of you willing to spend some of your time to keep the German
translations as current as possible. We had had some tremendous work
put in by everyone, especially the French translation team and as out
community is so big in the German spoken countries I would like to see
them provided with up-to-date translations as well.

I will try to start working on some of the items that are outdated or
not translated at all yet on the weekend. however I would appreciate
your help. As PR guy I am starting to get bogged down by other
responsibilities more and more.
Should you be interested, please drop me an email offline, as well as
the fink-i18n list.

Thank you!

PS: This message has been cross-posted, please do NOT reply to all lists!

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[Fink-devel] Re: An Experiment. Locating Fink Users with Google Earth and Earthwind. Participate? Please do!

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Robert T Wyatt wrote:
> I think this is a cool idea. Wouldn't it be easier to just set up a
> Frappr page for fink users (http://www.frappr.com/)?
> 
One reason would be, that I did not know about this web-site.

The other reason (now that I thought about it), is that it is probably much
easier for me to introduce the collected data into the Layout and look and
feel of Fink when I have the original data to start out with.

A very personal reason is, that I am not comfortable with the thought that
some third party has access to such vital information about our community. Do
have a look at http://www.frappr.com/?a=doc§ion=tou especially third party
disclosure. But as I said... you guys decide :)

- -d
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin)

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mXPTyKbOkKyfMoUE+ScJt4Y=
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[Fink-devel] An Experiment. Locating Fink Users with Google Earth and Earthwind. Participate? Please do!

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dear Community.

I have been thinking about geo-locating Fink Users for quite some time now.
This mainly serves two purposes. First of all I am very curious where all the
people that use Fink actually live and second of all, this should be a service
for our community. Do you want to know who is close to use and uses Fink? Is a
Fink user group feasible? How many Fink users are within 10 miles of me?

I do realize there is an inherent risk of data abuse curled into this and
therefore this is my personal test to test how much you are willing to trust.

It is _up to you_ how precise you wish to be. City accuracy? Absolutely ok.

If you want to be as accurate as going down to your actual street address,
here is what you can do.

If you live in the United States you can use:
http://geocoder.us to get the exact Longitude and latitude of your position

If you live in Canada you can use.
http://geocoder.ca to get the exact longitude and latitude of your position.

If you live in Europe you can use.
http://www.maporama.com to get the exact longitude and latitude of your 
position.

For me that would be (as an example):
Latitude: 48.18
Longitude: 16.328

(Make sure you use the second value that maporama supplies you with)

What will happen with your data?
I will take the data you supply me with and encode it into a KML file that you
can then download for use with Google Earth and Earthwind. In the future I
would like to see something like people.finkproject.org which will enable you
to locate people via a web-interface that could use the Google API.

Further more, in the future, a picture of yourself or little facts could be
linked to your long/lat if you want that to happen.

This is only an experiment. Depending on how much response i get, I will put
more or less time into this. Right now this is my private idea, my private joy
in doing this for the community. If I see enough response i will happily push
to make this an official Fink effort.

Please DO not reply to the list, reply _directly_ to me with your Long/Lat. if
you have general ideas or concerns, then reply to _ONE_ list, do NOT cross post!

Thank you :)

- -d
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-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [Fink-devel] RFC: Choosing mirror by DNS LOC.

[David H.]

Chris Zubrzycki wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On Apr 24, 2006, at 4:50 AM, David H. wrote:


Hello fans.

For a long time it has been known that the algorithm we choose your 
"closest" mirror by, might not be the best one. Here is a new idea and 
I  hope you will leave you comments for me.


Well, it sounds neat, but wouldn't it be better to use the closest 
according to the route the packets take, rather than the line distance 
on a map? You might be connected to the same backbone as a large mirror, 
but it could be farther geographically.




Well, at least for the major cities line distance would most likely be a 
secure expression
to how well the connectivity is. I know this is true for most bigger 
cities. The question is, is there a fairly simply way to determine 
routing information and calculating a sane path in a reasonable time? 
The geolocation calculation is easily done. Of course I would only need 
to run routes like this:


1.) Only look for mirrors in my own country if none are present take 
neighbouring countires if none a present escalate further
2.) If I have a mirror in my country only use my state if not, escalate 
up to all states.


That seems like a rather complicated traveling salesman/shortest path 
problem in the evolving :)


So, ideas?
The geolocation idea would also be, that you may participate in a 
service I will call Finkalicer. Which will show the Fink users all over 
the planet as a KML overlay for Finka and Earthwind.


-d



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[Fink-devel] RFC: Choosing mirror by DNS LOC.

[David H.]

Hello fans.

For a long time it has been known that the algorithm we choose your 
"closest" mirror by, might not be the best one. Here is a new idea and I 
 hope you will leave you comments for me.


It would be quite trivial to publish DNS LOC records for every mirror 
that finkmirrors has to offer to the community. For those of you who do 
not know what that is, please do follow this link:


http://www.ckdhr.com/dns-loc/

What would happen is the following:

Either the Installer or fink configure would ask something like:

"Would you like to choose your mirror by geo location?" if you answer 
with yes you will need to enter your Location by longitude/latitude.
There are several services out there which will tell you down to your 
street address, for example geocoder.us or geocoder.ca

Earthwind and Google earth as well.

Once that information is in the system, fink will fetch all DNS LOC 
records (it will only do this pereodically) and then use something like 
the link mentions below:

http://geocoder.us/blog/2006/04/21/calculating-distances/

It will try to calculate the "air distance" and then pick the one mirror 
that is physically closest. I know that this might not necessarily 
result in the best connectivity, but most of the time physical closeness 
does result in better download speeds.


Your comments are very welcome.

PS: of course this would also mean you would get a nice map of all the 
Fink mirror's locations on this planet for free :)


-d


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[Fink-devel] SHA1 checking for Bison (BUG)

[David H.]

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Hello guys.

I have just installed Fink HEAD, so that is about 30 seconds old.

The validation for the bison sources is:

openssl sha1 /sw/src/bison-2.1.tar.gz
SHA1(/sw/src/bison-2.1.tar.gz)= b236923e7d4909c6fd8873ac87431833fa45069b

That file has been downloaded from

Resolving distfiles.bru.be.eu.finkmirrors.net... 193.190.198.20
Connecting to distfiles.bru.be.eu.finkmirrors.net|193.190.198.20|:80... 
connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 1,316,270 (1.3M) [application/x-gzip]

100%[>] 1,316,270
   331.38K/sETA 00:00

14:32:53 (311.81 KB/s) - `bison-2.1.tar.gz' saved [1316270/1316270]

However:
The check fails explaining that the checksum is wrong. The Info file reads:

Source-MD5: b1468d49c1357aebcd1de6ef12cbf3e8
Source-Checksum: SHA1(b236923e7d4909c6fd8873ac87431833fa45069b)

So, I wonder how to best debug this? :)

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[Fink-devel] Come meet me in Sydney!

[David H.]

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Dear Community.

I have to fly to Sydney on business and I would like to meet you. If you are
close to Sydney, or live there, please do not be shy. If you have questions
about fink PR, about the FDN plans or why Benjamin still packages KDE, meet me 
:)

Just send me a mail off-list and we shall arrange for something. Oh yeah,
bring your single female friends too :)

- -d
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[Fink-devel] Re: [PR] Fink is about to change, are you going to be part of it? Help us build the Fink Developer Network!

[David H.]

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Trevor Harmon wrote:
> On Mar 18, 2006, at 8:09 AM, David H. wrote:
> 

> I'm not sure why this is necessary. Fink is growing, but that doesn't
> mean it requires a corporate foundation. There are only two reasons
> given on the wiki:
> 
Thank you for your message Trevor.
I have already seen that Benjamin addressed some of your concerns, let me
please add some comments myself. I value your input. So thank you for taking
the time.
First of all,. there are only two reasons because this is a work in progress
and you are all invited to add your own ideas. That means that you should be
free to express what you, as a community, would like to see the money spent on.

> "Putting Fink under a legal umbrella thus partly indemnifying the core
> developers from most legal threats, as well as protecting them from
> costly claims for compensation."
> 
> Again, I don't see why this is necessary. Fink, as well as all submitted
> packages, are licensed under the GPL, which explicitly states there is
> no warranty. And although that doesn't prevent someone from suing Fink's
> developers, the chances of that happening are pretty slim, are they not?
> I've developed and distributed several products under the GPL, but I
> certainly don't lie awake at night wondering if someone's going to sue me.
> 
The things you mention are one area where I would agree with you. However,
there are other things tied into this, which are far better handled by a
cooperation. For example the Fink Logo has to be owned by "someone". The
individual ideas and ideas that are in the Fink package manager might be
something we wish to protect in the future. The name "Fink" might be protected
in the future and other things that are simply better handled by a body that
does not belong to a single individual. As we believe that Fink belongs to the
community we would like the things that "belong to Fink" also belong to a
"legal" community. The Board of directors is such a community in my humble
opinion.

> "A legally protected way to accept monetary donations as well as
> donations in kind, ensuring the resources needed to improve and further
> all services provided to the community by Fink."
> 
> Nothing is said about why money is necessary and what it will be used
> for.

Please see my comments above. The same applies here as well.

> New computers for a build farm? 

Yes, most likely. That is an issue we have had to deal with for a long time
and such a build farm would be appreciated, surely by the community as well.

> Salaries for the core developers?

This might be a long term goal. This is not limited to core developers though.
Right now the lack of dedicated maintainers and developers is an issue for
Fink and having the power to pay someone to do such work would be a great
service to all.

> Even if there's a good reason, would donations even come?

So far I have had three individuals offering their money already in private
mails. That is something I find very pleasing and I thanked and will thank
each of them as soon as I have the time. As this is our first "test" to
involve the community, I did not expect such positive feedback. Therefore, yes
there will definitely be donations.

> I suspect most
> in the Fink community would rather provide time than money. In
> particular, I'd rather we focus on structural and policy problems [1]
> that are never going to be solved by throwing money at them. 

I do not quite see the connection. The policy has been understood and followed
by many. This might be unfortunate, but it is not something I feel we most
fret over.

> And even
> then, let's say we all agree that Fink needs money and everyone has
> money to donate. Is a corporation really the best way of handling this?
> Don't SourceForge or PayPal provide a donation service without all the
> extra overhead (the expense of hiring a lawyer and all that)?
> 
No one said, that we would not be using PayPal to accept initial donations.
The wiki even displays the compliance statement we filed with them. However,
when it comes to monetary issue, I do believe that we should have full control
over the process, something sourceforge does not guarantee us.
I hope this explains some of the ideas behind our steps toward FDN. Please
feel free to add your ideas/concerns to the wiki and thank you for answering.

- -d

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[Fink-devel] [PR] Fink is about to change, are you going to be part of it? Help us build the Fink Developer Network!

[David H.]

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Dear Community.

Before you read this, please make sure you verified and understood that it
comes from a trustworthy source. My name is David Höhn and what I do is
mentioned here on our official web-site:
http://fink.sourceforge.net/people.php?phpLang=en

Furthermore you can ensure that the PGP Signature of this message is correct
and matches up with the Key that has been published here:
http://fink.sourceforge.net/doc/security/notification.php?phpLang=en#who


Fink has grown. It has grown quickly and all of the core team, including
myself acknowledge, that voluntary work is limited to what each individual is
able to give. There are many people out there using Fink and we would like to
make things easier for them. Unfortunately that means that we, as a team, have
to ensure that enough funding and legal backup is there to allow Fink such 
growth.

For this reason the Fink Developer Network has been created and a certificate
of incorporation has been filed with the Division of Revenue of the state of
New Jersey on April 13th 2004. Since then we have been taking it slow. Many
things have been going on in the private lives of those involved, but now we
feel it is time to go ahead and further push our plans.

There are many things that need to be thought of and to ensure that our
community is as included as possible, to ensure that we are as transparent as
we possibly can be we have published all necessary information on the Fink Wiki.

Those of you that wish to better understand why the Fink developer Network is
an important and valid step to further the development of Fink might wish to
review this URL:
http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:FDN

All of you are welcome to comment. All you need to do is register yourself,
log in and leave your comment. Please do not forget to "sign" you comment with
 '' , this will ensure that we know which user left the comment and when.

Since the Fink Developer Network is a not-for-profit organization it has to
follow certain rules set forth by the IRS to reach tax exemption and rules set
forth by the state of New Jersey. To ensure that everyone involved is bound to
those rule bylaws have been proposed by me and some of the core members. If
you are interested in reviewing those bylaws and commenting on them, please
visit this URL:
http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink:PBL

All of you are welcome to comment, especially when you have a legal
background. Please do not forget to "sign" you comment with  '' , this
will ensure that we know which user left the comment and when.
You might wish to pay special attention to the "COMMITTEES" section. That
section is not complete and you are welcome to suggest more COMMITTEES to us.

By visiting http://wiki.opendarwin.org/index.php/Fink you will find that some
work has already been done to ensure that the FDN will be able to receive
monetary donations. This will most likely be done via PayPal and compliance to
do so has already been filed with PayPal and has been approved.

Right now the FDN is broke. While most of the core members have donated money
to allow the incorporation of FDN, that money is gone now. Before we can file
for tax exemption a way to finance those next steps has to be found. As you
can wee we have thought about that as well and you are more than welcome to
add your own ideas to the list that has already been posted.

All in all there are a lot of questions that still need to be discussed. I
strongly believe in our community and I believe that it should be involved
early. That is what I am doing right now. I would like to involve all of you.

How would you go about solving the issues that I described. What are your
ideas, and wishes for an organization such as the FDN.

You are welcome to comment in this thread, however we would prefer your
comments on the Wiki. Of course you may contact me off list or post your
concerns to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

As I said, this is an early announcement. Depending on how much feedback I am
seeing a news Item on the Fink web-site or an official Press release via prweb
might follow.

Thank you!


PS: ATTENTION! This message has been cross posted, please ensure you answer
only to the list you are posting from!

- -- "Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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[Fink-devel] Re: Add third tree?

[David H.]

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Matthew Sachs wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2005, at 07:26, Peter O'Gorman wrote:
> 


Apart from all this, will Apple gift us the necessary infrastructure to do
this? I doubt it. That means we will have to focus a lot on getting the
necessary environment setup prior to getting deeper into this direction.

As much as I love volunteers and others devoting time and ressources this
would be a critical part of Fink and as such it should be owned and opearted
by the FDN

- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Add third tree?

[David H.]

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Kevin Horton wrote:
> On 2 Jul 2005, at 10:26, Peter O'Gorman wrote:
> 
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Kevin Horton wrote:
>> |
>> | I don't know what to call the new tree - I originally thought that
>> | "testing" could work, but after looking at the way Debian does 
>> things  I
>> | think this would simply cause confusion.  How about "kamikaze"?That
>> | would certainly push the idea that people should only enable   this new
>> | tree if they were prepared for things to break.
>>
>> I agree with you. Well, almost :). We need a way to validate package
>> submissions, and build them automatically. If the validation and 
>> building go
>> ~ okay then they go into this new tree. From the new tree they can be
>> automatically moved to unstable after, say 3 weeks. The move to  unstable
>> could be stopped by committer if someone deems it necessary, but  the
>> idea
>> should be that things make the unstable tree unless someone stops it.
>>
>> I also don't agree with the kamikaze name, Japanese users would 
>> likely use
>> such a tree in preference to stable.
>>
> 
> I like the idea of automatic validation and building before 
> automatically putting them in the new tree.  The build process should 
> probably be monitored to look for things that get installed directly 
> into /sw without going through the fink.build directory first.  I've 
> had a couple of draft .info files that did that until I sorted out  the
> install scripts.
> 
Acutally the build as nobody option should make sure that you cannot install
into /sw

> I'm not wedded to the kamikaze name.  How about "unvalidated", or 
> "very_unstable"?
> 
Actually something like "automatic" seems more viable.

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[Fink-devel] Don't we love SF

[David H.]

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hehe :)

Generating notification message...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/cvsroot/fink/CVSROOT/syncmail", line 433, in ?
main()
  File "/cvsroot/fink/CVSROOT/syncmail", line 426, in main
contextlines, fromhost, replyto)
  File "/cvsroot/fink/CVSROOT/syncmail", line 253, in blast_mail
resp = conn.sendmail(address, people, s.getvalue())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/smtplib.py", line 670, in sendmail
raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
smtplib.SMTPSenderRefused: (452, 'Space shortage, please try later',
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]')
/cvsroot/fink/CVSROOT/ciabot.pl: sendmail exit status 1
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[Fink-devel] Re: Failed: phase compiling: zsh-4.2.4-11 failed

[David H.]

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FranÃois Giron wrote:
> Hello,
> I transmit here the detail concerning the failure of the
> installation of zsh.
> 
> 
>utils.c: In function 'adjustwinsize':
>utils.c:1000: warning: implicit declaration of function 'ioctl'
>utils.c: At top level:
>utils.c:3460: warning: no previous prototype for 'ucs4toutf8'
>utils.c: In function 'ucs4toutf8':
>utils.c:3482: warning: suggest parentheses around arithmetic in operand of |
>utils.c: In function 'getkeystring':
>utils.c:3666: warning: passing argument 2 of 'libiconv' from incompatible
>pointer type
>gcc -c -I. -I/sw/include -I/sw/include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -Wall
>-Wmissing-prototypes -O2  -o watch.o watch.c
>watch.c: In function 'watch3ary':
>watch.c:196: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c: In function 'watchlog2':
>watch.c:262: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c:262: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c: In function 'watchlog':
>watch.c:380: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c:388: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c:388: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c:399: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>watch.c:399: error: 'struct utmpx' has no member named 'ut_name'
>make[2]: *** [watch.o] Error 1
>make[1]: *** [modobjs] Error 2
>make: *** [all] Error 1
>### execution of make failed, exit code 2




Ok looks like we need:


#if (defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMPX_UT_ID)) ||
(!defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_ID))
 strncpy(utx.ut_id, id, sizeof(utx.ut_id));
 #endif
#if (defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_USER)) ||
(!defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_USER))
 strncpy(utx.ut_user, user, sizeof(utx.ut_user));
 #else
 strncpy(utx.ut_name, user, sizeof(utx.ut_name));
 #endif
 strncpy(utx.ut_line, line, sizeof(utx.ut_line));
#if (defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_PID)) ||
(!defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_PID))
 utx.ut_pid = getpid();
 #endif
#if (defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_TYPE)) ||
(!defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_TYPE))
 utx.ut_type = LOGIN_PROCESS;
 #endif
#if (defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_TV)) ||
(!defined(UTMPX) && defined(HAVE_STRUCT_UTMP_UT_TV))
 gettimeofday(&(utx.ut_tv), 0);
 #else
 time(&(utx.ut_time));

That would also apply to the eterm issue on fink-users I guess ?
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Re: [Fink-devel] Fink Build System

[David H.]

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Matthew Sachs wrote:
> Apple has released the scripts I've been using for my Fink builds  under
> the GPL.  It's in CVS under the 'scripts' module.  Announcement  below. 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> A system for performing builds of the entire Fink system and  analyzing
> the results of those builds is now available. Fink ( fink.sourceforge.net/>) is a third-party project which makes it  easier
> to obtain open source software on Mac OS X; this build system  will help
> the Fink project carry out its mission.
> 
> buildfink may be obtained from the 'scripts' module of the Fink CVS 
> repository.  For instructions on accessing this repository, see 
> .  The source for  buildfink
> may also be obtained directly on the web at  cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink/scripts/buildfink/>.
> 
*faints dead* Apple actually doing something official for us? I am impressed :)

*grins* Well my official Thank you, from the official Fink PR guy :)

- -d

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[Fink-devel] fink feature request (Dr macks? )

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hello guys.

Could we lock during a selfupdate?

When a slow CVS selfupdate runs and you try to install "fink install fink",
you will get errors like these:

"Reading package info...can't open
/sw/fink/dists/unstable/main/finkinfo/sci/nco.info: No such file or directory
at /sw/lib/perl5/Fink/Services.pm line 127."

I know this is a very special case. However we should never read the Info
files when there is a possibility that they are being written to at that very
moment.

- -d
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[Fink-devel] Re: gnupg fails to build on Tiger

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Mike Zanker wrote:
> Fresh install of Tiger, Xcode 2.0, latest fink. gnupg fails to build
> with the following error:
> 
> 
>>if gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I.. -I../include -I../intl  
>>-no-cpp-precomp -I/sw/include  -g -O2 -Wall -MT ttyio.o -MD -MP -MF 
>>".deps/ttyio.Tpo" -c -o ttyio.o ttyio.c; \
>>then mv -f ".deps/ttyio.Tpo" ".deps/ttyio.Po"; else rm -f ".deps/ttyio.Tpo"; 
>>exit 1; fi
>>ttyio.c: In function 'init_ttyfp':
>>ttyio.c:166: error: 'rl_catch_signals' undeclared (first use in this function)
>>ttyio.c:166: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>>ttyio.c:166: error: for each function it appears in.)
>>ttyio.c: In function 'tty_print_utf8_string2':
>>ttyio.c:333: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of 
>>'utf8_to_native' differ in signedness
>>make[2]: *** [ttyio.o] Error 1
>>make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
>>make: *** [all] Error 2
>>### execution of make failed, exit code 2
>>Removing build lock...
>>dpkg -r fink-buildlock-gnupg-1.4.0-1
>>(Reading database ... 4391 files and directories currently installed.)
>>Removing fink-buildlock-gnupg-1.4.0-1 ...
>>Failed: phase compiling: gnupg-1.4.0-1 failed
> 
This looks like you are missing the correct libreadline. Try building it with
- --without-readline

Please notify the maintainer of this. It seems to be a known issue, see:
http://www.opendarwin.org/pipermail/darwinports/2005-March/024718.html

The error message does indicate it might be a readline issue

- -d

Cross Posted to Devel
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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David R. Morrison wrote:
> I've begun the implementation of the new license policy by re-licensing
> all of the packages that Lars listed in the stable/crypto category,
> re-licensing them in all four active trees.  (I made them all Restrictive, 
> but put a note in DescPackaging to indicate the original license.)  I'll 
> work on the others later.
> 
> As package maintainers make progress on the other approaches, they can
> revise their packages.
> 
> I'll also put a statement about the new policy in the fink documentation.
> 
Could we please put Variants on the License: filed then ?
I am _not_ going to maintain msmtp-ssl and msmtp-sasl because of this license
change as seperate files. Thank you

- -d

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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David R. Morrison wrote:
> 
> On Mar 28, 2005, at 10:08 AM, David H. wrote:
> 
>> And yes, I also think that we should not adopt a policy or attitude
>> where we
>> try to go out of our way just because there "might" be legal
>> implications.
>>
> 
> In this spirit, can we have our old slogan back?  "Unix software for
> your Mac"?  (taken down because there might be legal implications...)
> 
The term "Unix" is still a registered trademark :P

- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Benjamin Reed wrote:
> David H. wrote:
> 
>> no, I am not. That are exactly the words that they told me. The
>> likelyhood
>> that we will end up in court because we "violate" the GPL is about 0.
>> Not to
>> mention that we are not the "active party" in this case. The long
>> version on
>> this topic is about 2 hours and a dinner worth.
> 
> 
> As the "PR guy" I'm amazed that that is the only concern you have.  :P

You know my stance on licensing very well, especially when it comes to the GPL.
> 
> I think bucking the GPL with that kind of attitude is a bad idea.  If it
> were "the 'system library' thing is a bit murky, I think it could still
> be considered such, even though we're installing an updated version in
> an alternate location" that's one thing, but if it's "f**k it, let them
> try to sue us" that's another thing altogether.
>
If I had said that, yes indeed. What I meant to express is that we should not
waste our time adressing this issue when there are more important things to
get done. Let's take the g++ ABI changes for one thing.
And yes, I also think that we should not adopt a policy or attitude where we
try to go out of our way just because there "might" be legal implications.
When it comes down to hard facts, then I am more than willing to change
something, do something about a given situation. So please apologise for my
lack of emotional detachment when I said what I did.

> Is it really that hard to set things that want openssl097 to Restrictive
> until we can get them either building against the system libcrypto or
> updated to use GNUTLS?  (Or confirmed to have a compatible license?)
> 
>> Yes, but not with European.
> 
> 
> And where is Fink incorporated again?
> 
That does not matter when it comes to copy right. Not at all.

>> Sorry, but that is downright wrong. As long as I do nto sign my right
>> of sole
>> use and enjoyment over to Fink Developer Network, the copyright as
>> well as the
>> "licensing" remains in my hands. Of course Fink may choose to reject
>> my patch
>> when its licensing does not fit into a scheme we choose, but as long
>> as that
>> not happens, that patch is mine to deal with and it is licensed as I
>> find fit.
>> That is why all my patches would be licensed as BSD for example.
> 
> 
> I agree here.  I can't imagine there's such thing as "implied" copyright
> assignment just by uploading.
There is not. Just as the copyright is always bound to the countries copyright
where the "work has been finished, or created".

>  Copyright is always the creator's unless
> specifically notified.  I doubt it will be much of a big deal to contact
> all maintainers and ask them for consent to consider their .info files
> to be released under the GPL, and to put a notice up that all future
> submissions will be the same.
> 
Actually I would very much enjoy it if we had a choice here between BSD ad GPL.

- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Daniel Macks wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2005 at 04:48:04PM -0800, Trevor Harmon wrote:
> 
>>On Mar 27, 2005, at 6:22 AM, David H. wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, ignoring this bullshit licensing issue all together. Four
>>>highly paid, very well known and rather well respected lawyers have
>>>told me, seperately, that we should exactly do that.
>>
>>I assume you're joking about the lawyer bit, 

no, I am not. That are exactly the words that they told me. The likelyhood
that we will end up in court because we "violate" the GPL is about 0. Not to
mention that we are not the "active party" in this case. The long version on
this topic is about 2 hours and a dinner worth.

>>but if I understand your 
>>point correctly, I disagree. We shouldn't take licensing issues 
>>lightly. It would be hypocritical to ignore licensing for .info files 
>>while at the same time expecting everyone to respect the license for 
>>Fink itself. There are enough GPL violations going on already 
>>(http://gpl-violations.org/) without setting bad examples.
> 
> 
> /me nods
> 
> 
In this case the GPL does not good. It is a pain in our ass requiring us to
take measures which influence the way we setup our infrastructure and the
like. That is nowhere near being fesable.

>>Furthermore, although I do not have four highly paid lawyers at my 
>>disposal, I believe the law says that only the copyright holder -- that 
>>is, the author of the .info file -- can choose what license his work is 
>>distributed under. The Fink community cannot choose for him.
> 
> 
> This is in agreement with other US copyright-law "executive summaries"
> I've read.
> 
Yes, but not with European.

> In practice here, .info submissions go via SourceForge, which is
> slathered with notices that it is for "open source" software
> development only, and Fink is distributed under GPL. Especially by
> that latter point, it appears that anyone contributing a file to be
> part of fink would be placing that file under GPL as well.
> 
Sorry, but that is downright wrong. As long as I do nto sign my right of sole
use and enjoyment over to Fink Developer Network, the copyright as well as the
"licensing" remains in my hands. Of course Fink may choose to reject my patch
when its licensing does not fit into a scheme we choose, but as long as that
not happens, that patch is mine to deal with and it is licensed as I find fit.
That is why all my patches would be licensed as BSD for example.

- -d

> dan
> 

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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Dave Vasilevsky wrote:
> 
> On Mar 16, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Lars Rosengreen wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I think we do.  I'll try to construct a list of packages that may
>> be affected.
> 
> 
> Thanks Lars.
> 
> I guess once we have this, for each package we'll need to:
> 
> - Notify the upstream developers that they're sitting on a time bomb. :-)
> 
> - Do one of the following, in order of preference:
> * Get permission from the upstream devel to link with OpenSSL
> * Link the package against OpenTLS
> * Link the package against the system OpenSSL (BuildConflict with
> Fink's version)
> * Remove the package from the bindist, possibly from unstable too.
> 
> Any other options?
> 
Yes, ignoring this bullshit licensing issue all together. Four highly paid,
very well known and rather well respected lawyers have told me, seperately,
that we should exactly do that. Somehow I think that we should trust their
judgement. I know I would, but then again, that is just me.

- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] the gpl and openssl

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
David R. Morrison wrote:
| Lars,
|
| Thanks for raising this issue.  It has come up before, but it has perhaps
| not received the attention it deserves.
|
| My reading of the links you provided suggests that you are correct: we may
| not link GPL'd software against fink's openssl package unless the license
| explictly permits linking to openssl.  (In many cases, there is an
| alternative -- link to the system's openssl -- although this is not great
| because it doesn't get updated as frequently.)
|
| Do we do this in stable/crypto at all?  Did you happen to jot down the
| names of the offending packages in unstable/crypto?
|
Personally i am _very_ unhappy with this nervousness about Licensing. the GPL
is not meant to inhibit what we are doing, nor is it meant to make our work
more complicated. This is one of the cases where I assume that it would be
correct to simply do as we wish, looking forward to whatever may come.
I will run this by our lawyers tomorrow, I think the risk is marginal compared
to tha mount of work we shall have to complete to fully comply with this.
My 2 cents.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] new gettext

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Peter O'Gorman wrote:
| Chris Zubrzycki wrote:
|
| | Any thoughts/suggestions?
|
| Well, we need the new gettext, I agree, but we also need for users to be
| able to run a successful selfupdate and update-all. It does not seem that
| the package which you have put into your experimental dir would support
| that. We *must* find a solution to this issue before any new gettext
| package
| is committed to unstable.
|
| I really wish I could propose some magic that would make everyone happy in
| the upgrade process, but I can not.
|
If you would give me enough time to plan this "upgrade". If you can provide a
clear path how to manage such an upgrade by hand, then it would be no problem
to arrange ourselves with our community.
Should we not be able to find an automatic solution, I can only offer to
handle this for all of us in a manner that should be acceptable to you as
developers and our community. I am sure I could convince the "media" to tag 
along.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Fink for large number of macs (and Mars lander ops)

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Kurt Schwehr wrote:
| Looks like my emails are not getting through to the
| fink lists.  Maybe these two links will get through.
| I would like to get some discussion going about what
| is the best way to deploy fink to a large number of
| machines at a site.  Please give these two links a
| read and let me know what you think.  I can summarize
| and post it back or we can discuss it on the list if
| there is general interest.

Just as a side note. Fink/fink was deployed on the first Virigian Tech
Supercomputer. It was ruinning on all 1100 nodes. You might wish to get in
touch with them to discuss such huge setups. I do have the confirmation mail
from the project leader lying around somewhere. It is just very hard to get in
touch with them. I guess if you called you would get further than I did.
- -d
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[Fink-devel] Re: boost1.32

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Becky Bendick wrote:
| Thanks for the advice.
You are most welcome.
Please note that -fabi-version=0 is just a shortcut which means "select the
latest G++ ABI version that is present". Currently there are ABI version 1 and
ABI version 2. You should not mix and match between ABI versions which means
you most likely have to compile
boost AND bjam with -fabi-version=0 set.
Once you have done that could you post the full compile log to fink-devel and
the boost mailing list? I think they are somewaht aware of the issue.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Two issues about "UseBinaryDist"

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
David R. Morrison wrote:
| 1. I've made a modification to the new UseBinaryDist stuff, introducing
| a flag "--compile-from-source" in addition to the flag
| "--use-binary-dist". My new flag will disable the use of the binary
| distribution for that run only.
|
| There have been some objections about the name of my new flag. Some
| alternative suggestions: "--dont-use-binary-dist" and
| "--no-use-binary-dist". Any opinions?  Can we somehow reach a quick
| consensus about this? This needs to appear in a fink release quite soon,
| in order to fix problems with bootstrapping fink.
|
- --source-run or --binary-off , just because I HATE typing long command line
switches.
| 2. There is also a question about what the default value should be for
| the global UseBinaryDist option. At the moment, any user who runs "fink
| --configure" and who hasn't previously made a choice about UseBinaryDist
| will be asked a new question about whether to use it, with the default
| answer being "Yes." What worries me about this is that a user might not
| notice this question, and just select the default answer (along with a
| bunch of other defaults that are agreeing with previous choices). Then,
| all of a sudden, the behavior of fink will change in a dramatic way!
Imho this should _always_ default to no.
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[Fink-devel] Re: zsh

[David H.]

William Scott wrote:
The following construct prepends the 38 function directories and
subdirectories revision 13 creates to the $fpath array without
clobbering what the user might already have:
fpath=( $(print  /sw/share/zsh/**/*(/) ) $fpath )
but if you configure it the default way, it only needs two elements
in the $fpath array and this has the additional merit of being added
automatically.

Dear Darian:
zsh-4.2.1-13 is still broken, as there are no entries in $FPATH.
Since it is all put into subdirectories and the directory 4.2.1
has been eliminated, the default configuration for adding to
$FPATH apprently fails.
If you just let them install by default in the same way as it is
done in /usr/share/zsh with Apple's zsh, it is taken care of
automatically.  Otherwise you will have to add them all in by hand
somehow, and it looks like there are about 15 or 20 instead of two.
Moreover, in the current setup, if you start /sw/bin/zsh from a
/bin/zsh shell, it will inherit the wrong $FPATH, i.e, that
associated with /usr/share/zsh
The revision 15 I posted on the package tracker works and sets the $FPATH
correctly.
Sorry to keep complaining, but I can't add the zsh-templates until this
works.
Hello
As I still do not understand what the problem is, I cannot really judge 
whether I can allow your way of installing it or not.

One thing is for sure, the Fink supplied zsh will, under _no_ 
circumstances, touch or install anything outside of /sw. If that is 
necessary the user has to do it by themselves.

You said that functions are usually installed i /prefix/share/zsh, so 
that is why I changed it to work that way with 
--enable-fndir=%p/share/%n everything else is now handled by the zsh 
make install and thus should default to whatever defaults they set.

Is this the option that is in question "--enable-function-subdirs" ?
Thanks.


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

[Fink-devel] ZSH breakage.

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Hello.
As I am currently being asked to do two different things and I have not
fully decided yet how to set the paths, the fink supplied zsh package
will be broken until Monday most likely. Please do accept my apologies
for this.
Thanks
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Re: [Fink-devel] apache 2.0.52 and svn 1.1.0

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Blair Zajac wrote:
| Apache 2.0.50 is still in Fink and there have been a number of security
| issues fixed in 2.0.51 and 2.0.52.
|
|
| So I'm thinking we should update Apache and then get Subversion up to
| 1.1.0.
|
Even though I might be repeating myself. Please tell this to the
maintainers of the respective packages. Only when you do not get a
repsonse back from them post to the list.
Thank you
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Re: [Fink-devel] New feature available in fink: UseBinaryDist

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Daniel Macks wrote:
| On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:09:05AM +0200, David H. wrote:
|
|>Christian Schaffner wrote:
|>|
|>| Thanks to the help of bbraun and dmacks i just committed a new feature
|>| for fink. You can now tell fink to try to download pre-compiled binary
|>| packages from the binary distribution if available and if the deb is
|>| not already on the system.
|>
|>And now you get to document this feature :)
|>
|>in theman page as well as the usage pages on the web-site :) Thank you.
|
|
| There's been a patch for the manpages and various 'fink help' since
| the very first days of this effort:) Now that it's in HEAD, just gotta
| copy it to uguide.xml
|
| dan
|
since the user guide is tailored for those who might not be even able to
read a manpage. Please make sure it is readable to those as well :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] New feature available in fink: UseBinaryDist

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Christian Schaffner wrote:
| Dear Fink Users and Developers
|
|
| Thanks to the help of bbraun and dmacks i just committed a new feature
| for fink. You can now tell fink to try to download pre-compiled binary
| packages from the binary distribution if available and if the deb is
| not already on the system.
|

And now you get to document this feature :)
in theman page as well as the usage pages on the web-site :) Thank you.
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Re: [Fink-devel] ignoring /usr/local, was: Re: [Fink-users] Problems compiling libwmf-0.2.8.2-4

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Kevin Horton wrote:

|
| It certainly would be nice to have fink automatically deal with this
| situation.  I have seen discussions before about various ways to do
| this, but no one was ever able to come up with a perfect solution, so
| nothing is done.  But I believe this is a big enough problem that even
| an imperfect solution may be better than no solution at all.
|
Hello Kevin.
While I can understand your frustration and I certainly agree that it
would be a handy feature you are touching on a very serious subject
here. As you know Fink has one golden rule and that is that we do not
touch anything outside /sw.  There are some very special arrangements we
have made, mostly out of necessity when we touch something outside /sw
there is usually no other way to make sure that some feature or
supplying software works properly. This touches the subject of X11 and
Applications that are supplied by Fink.
I do believe that anyone that builds things from source should be aware
that he/she might have some conflicting libraries installed in
/usr/local. I also agree that we could spit out a warning ala "I am
going to build blah, did you move your /usr/local, are you sure it is
empty?". I, personally, would not be happy with a solution where Fink
touches this. Simply because  it "stretches" a rule which we always have
been very, very strict about.
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Re: [Fink-devel] App bundles now in Fink?

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Kevin Walzer wrote:
| I've been away from Fink for awhile, but after downloading the latest
| upgrade I noticed that TexShop is now a Fink package. Does this mean
| that there is now a process for packaging app bundles? When Dave
| Morrison asked me earlier this summer to think about packaging a couple
| of my AppleScript Fink app launchers, I declined because I couldn't
| translate the packaging instructions at the Fink site into an app bundle
| (no one else had done it either). But now I see that TexShop installs in
| /sw/Applications using the command-line version of pbxbuild; perhaps
| something similar could be put together with osacompile for my app
| launchers.
|

If you want an official statement:
No, applications are not permitted in Fink officially. Yet we accept
them, because we all agree that they _should_ be in Fink. Since we are
not yet 100% sure how it should be done and if there might be any
issues, there is no policy written and no documentation released on this
topic. Applications which require ressource forks will not be accepted,
because there is no way fink (the software itself) and the Debian tools
can handle them.
You may have a look at the mailing lists or the channel logs to see what
has been discussed :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: fink/perlmod/Fink PkgVersion.pm,1.298,1.299

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Benjamin Reed wrote:
| Darian Lanx wrote:
|
|> More of a philosophical question. Should the code not try to pick the
|> _latest_ JVM that is present,. Thus most likely the one with the most
|> features and the one a common user would be using?
|
|
| If they didn't ask for a specific JVM, wouldn't you want to make
| bytecode that works with all javas?
|
Dunno. That is why I am asking :)
I, as a dummy Java user, would assume that Fink picks the latest JAVA
that Apple installed on my machine. Now if I happen to have 1.3., 1.4,  1.5
it would pick 1.5
I dunno if that is fatal ? (I guess I have installed 1.5 so it would be
my fault).
Just fooling around, I know little about java :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] fink gcc?

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Jim White wrote:
| Martin Costabel wrote:
|
|> David R. Morrison wrote:
|>
|> []
|>
|>>> (3) The problems with octave, singular-libfac and others that cannot
|>>> be built with Apple's latest g++-3.3 are too fresh in the discussion
|>>> to have to be recalled, but they are real and urgent problems that
|>>> have to be solved. Telling people "Don't install Xcode-1.5 if you
|>>> haven't yet done so" can only be a very temporary measure. We have
|>>> to provide some working solution.
|>>
|>>
|>> I am still hopeful that Apple will solve this soon, but if we can
|>> find our own solution in the meantime, that would be great.
|>
|>
|>
|> Making some noise helped, it seems:
|> http://lists.apple.com/mhonarc/darwin-development/msg21415.html
|> At least they take it seriously and are working on it.
|>
|
| If you would like an ADC Technical Support Incident to use for this,
| I've got a couple to spare the expire on August 31st.  I suspect that is
| overkill at this point, it can't hurt if you want to try and get more
| information from them.

Jim, I would like to thank you for the offer. Please do use those
incidents or give them to martin or another knowledgeable person of this
particular issue. The more noise we make, the better (in this case).
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Re: [Fink-devel] whois planetmirror

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Martin Costabel wrote:
| Do we really have a developer "planetmirror"? There is a stale cvs lock
| by this user in
/cvsroot/fink/dists/10.2-gcc3.3/unstable/main/finkinfo/text
|
Yes we do. It should be read only account for the Australian Master mirror.
| I already have filed a sf support request (using Mozilla, not Safari,
| because Safari nowadays tends to crash on SF web pages) to remove the
| lock, but in case this is not a real person, but a runaway bot, could
| his master please rein him in?
I will send the maintainer a mail.
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[Fink-devel] tylers-file-cmds.info and alternatives

[David H.]

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Enigmail
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Again (this is LasVegas off irc),

I read up on alternatives, fixed my info file and submitted it to the
tracker. I am still waiting for the fileutils maintainer to update the
fileutils.info to also use alternatives; as of this writing I have not
heard back from them yet.

tylers-file-cmds.info now fully supports alternatives. If you review
the new info file, you will notice that the InstallScript is now

InstallScript: <<
#! /bin/sh -ev
mkdir -p %i/share/man/man1
mkdir -p %i/bin/

cp cp/cp %i/bin/cp.tfc
cp cp/cp.1 %i/share/man/man1/cp.1.tfc
<<

removing the conflict for bin/cp and man/man1/cp.1

A few new sections were added, 

PostInstScript: <<
update-alternatives --install %p/bin/cp cp %p/bin/cp.tfc 60 --slave
%p/share/man/man1/cp.1 cp.1 %p/share/man/man1/cp.1.tfc
<<

PreRmScript: <<
if [ "$1" != "upgrade" ]; then
update-alternatives --remove cp %p/bin/cp.tfc
fi
<<

Those sections are all that is required to make alternatives work with
my package (a similiar change needs to be made to the fileutils.info
as well). After the binary is installed, update-alternatives will use
a weighting system to pick which package gets to be bin/cp and
bin/man/man1/cp.1 by installing symlinks. Admins can also tell
alternatives to use one package or another manualy. I suggest setting
up my package so it out-weighs fileutils under the assumption that
someone who goes to the trouble to install my package is going to
expect my version of cp to work with out twidling. Note that the only
thing alternatives is in control of is cp and that is the only binary
I install. Alternatives knows how to handle the man page as well in a
master/slave relationship.

I think this fully addresses the concerns you raised on IRC. What do
you think? Also, do you think I should wait for the fileutils
maintainer to fix up fileutils.info to use alternatives, make the
changes and submit a patch, or bring this up on the mail list? It is
such a simple change but changing the behavior of a package someone is
maintaining seems to be like pulling the carpet out from under them.

On another note, I could not find a reference to the Debian
alternatives system in the fink packaging manual. Perhaps it would be
a good idea to add a new section that talks about alternatives, what
it does, how it works and how to setup a package to use it if
neccessary. I would be willing to write this documentation - I'm
always ready to help out a good project =)

Thanks for your time and help!
Tyler
--- End Message ---

Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Kevin Horton wrote:

|
| There must be many other unstable users who have Fink 0.22.0, and they
| need to be told what to do to restore selfupdate functionality. I
| hesitate to post something myself, as I'm not a core developer, and I
| don't have all the info or knowledge of the issue.
|
DRM and I have discussed this. We are aware of the issue, but as always
we are taking a calm approach to it. Given the fact that the mistake was
reported promptly and a fixed version offered very quickly as well, the
likelyhood of some user getting a broken version is fairly small. We
will monitor the lists for a few more days and then go on providing more
information.
I hope this answers your question. You can rest assured, that I will
take any steps necessary to ensure our users get the very best we can
offer :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[David H.]

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Hash: RIPEMD160
Michèle Garoche wrote:

| Then I'm not sure colors may be suitable for color-blind people, though
| I'm in this category and have no problem with them, but there are many
| different way of being color-blind.
|
maybe it is a good idea to follow this route and look at :
http://www.w3.org/WAI/
Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Do we still need 'fink checksums'?

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Daniel Macks wrote:
| The 'fink checksums' mode was added two years ago when we first
| started requiring MD5 for source tarballs. The code implementing it is
| marked:
|
|   # HACK HACK HACK
|   # This is to be removed soon again, only a temporary tool to allow
|   # checking of all available MD5 values in all packages.
|
| Does anyone still use this mode? Do we still need this functionality?
| Or can we axe it (or at least deprecate it now, then axe it soon)?
|
| dan
|
rip it baby :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: [PATCH] compress-zlib-pm to use system zlib.dylib

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Blair Zajac wrote:
| Daniel Macks wrote:
|
|> On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 04:13:17PM -0700, Blair Zajac wrote:
|>
|>> Daniel Macks wrote:
|>>
|>>> On my 10.3.4 machine, I have /usr/lib/libz.1.1.3.dylib
|>>
|>>
|>> Funny, I was looking at the header files to see which version OS X has:
|>>
|>> % less /usr/include/zlib.h
|>> /* zlib.h -- interface of the 'zlib' general purpose compression library
|>>  version 1.1.4, March 11th, 2002
|>> 
|>> 
|>> #define ZLIB_VERSION "1.1.4"
|>
|>
|>
|> Oh, looks like 1.1.3 is just for backward compatibility:
|>   % ls -l /usr/lib/libz.*
|>   -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  56416 27 May 13:10
|> /usr/lib/libz.1.1.3.dylib*
|>   -rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  56200 27 May 13:10 /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib*
|>   lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel 12 21 May 11:22 /usr/lib/libz.dylib@
|> -> libz.1.dylib
|>   % strings /usr/lib/libz.1.1.3.dylib | grep Copyright
|>deflate 1.1.3 Copyright 1995-1998 Jean-loup Gaillyinflate 1.1.3
|> Copyright 1995-1998 Mark Adler   % strings /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib |
|> grep Copyright
|>deflate 1.1.4 Copyright 1995-2002 Jean-loup Gaillyinflate 1.1.4
|> Copyright 1995-2002 Mark Adler
|> So no need for fink to provide 1.1.4, and okay for the perl mod to
|> link system's lib IMO.
|
|
| OK.
|
| So I guess I'll remove the three files
|
| compress-zlib-pm560.info compress-zlib-pm580.info compress-zlib-pm581.info
|
| and replace them with a single compress-zlib-pm using Info2.
~^^
I doubt you will be making many happy with that. There are many old
schoolers like me that simply hate Info format :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] [PATCH] compress-zlib-pm to use system zlib.dylib

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Blair Zajac wrote:
| Hi Justin,
|
| The Compress::Zlib package currently compiles and links against it's own
| private copy of zlib 1.1.4.  This seems to be a waste of disk and memory
| space when Mac OS X 103.3 comes with the same version of zlib (10.2
| still have 1.1.3, but I'm guessing it's probably patched).
|
| The attached patch fixes this and reduces the size of
|
/sw/lib/perl5/5.8.1/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/Compress/Zlib/Zlib.bundle
|
| from 253192 to 127124 bytes.
|
That is not allowed. If the package brings its own zlib or there is a
version of zlib IN Fink already it HAS to use that version.
This is policy :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] bash completion scripts

[David H.]

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Lars Rosengreen wrote:
| The Darcs package I maintain comes with a bash completion script that
| can be installed in %p/etc/bash_completion.d/  .  Do you think it is
| appropriate for me to put things in this directory without depending on
| the bash-completion package in fink? 
Since this is a very special case, I cannot give you 100% be sure
answers. However, the moment you want to use bash_completion and your
enhanced script becomes a part of that functionality you _have_ to
depend on the Fink supplied package. However in this special case where
you simply install a completetion script and leave it to the user
whether he/she might like to use it, that behaviour you described should
be ok.
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[Fink-devel] Implied Perl dependency tree following or what am I missing?

[David H.]

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Hello.
Looking at Fink I get:
fink install soap-lite-ssl-pm581
/usr/bin/sudo /sw/bin/fink  install soap-lite-ssl-pm581
Information about 3675 packages read in 3 seconds.
fink needs help picking an alternative to satisfy a virtual dependency.
The candidates:
(1)  io-stringy-pm560: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles
(2)  io-stringy-pm561: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles
(3)  io-stringy-pm580: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles
(4)  io-stringy-pm581: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles
(5)  io-stringy-pm584: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles
(6)  io-stringy-pm585: Perl module for advanced I/O with filehandles

Since I wish to install soap-lite-ssl for Perl 5.8.1 and it seems to be
a versioned perl modules, should this not imply that I want to install
io-stringy-pm581 as well since I would want io-stringy to match the Perl
version I am installing the main module for ?
As I will admit to know little about our Perl handling, please enlighten
me and show me the path to wisdom :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Errors in percent expansions (Modified by jfm)

[David H.]

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Benjamin Reed wrote:
| David H. wrote:
|
|> jfm wrote:
|>
|>  |
|> | There are probably 2 different issues: one is that in some cases it may
|> | be clearer or more convenient to use several different 'patchfiles'
|> , with
|> | very distinct roles _ so a 'PatchFile' field might have to be plural
|> _ ;
|> | the
|>
|> Actually this is one thing I would veto strongly. There is no valid
|> technical reason for more than one (unified) patch file.
|
|
| There's no technical reason for Fink to exist as well, when you can just
| port it yourself.  ;)
err? Let us just say I never read this and thus I will blissfully ignore
it and not put about 30 paragraphs to argue the point :)
|
| Having things split up logically makes it easier to maintain; especially
| when your package consists of multiple source tarballs.
|
Once more, there is no _technical_ reason to have more than one patch
file. That it makes things easier to maintain is something I am not
going to argue, however, it makes it harder on our side to
a) verify that every patch file used is present
b) that each patch file is up to date and the md5 are ok
c) that each patch file sticks to the unofficial size limitations we set
a long time ago
d) I am sure there is more which eludes me right now.
That is why I would favor a single file, since I am a maintainer myself,
I guess I would have to bite the sour apple as well :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Errors in percent expansions (Modified by jfm)

[David H.]

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jfm wrote:

Actually this is one thing I would veto strongly. There is no valid
technical reason for more than one (unified) patch file.
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[Fink-devel] Bittorrent, Fink and a Service you might like?

[David H.]

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Dear community.
I have recently be looking more and more into bittorrent. I do believe
that sharing resources now a days for the benefit of the whole community
is a good thing. I was wondering if the Fink community was interested in
a bittorrent distfiles, as well as general file mirror. I did try to
install http://www.crackerjack.net/mod_bt/ o a FreeBSD box I have full
control over, but it failed for various reasons. So if someone out there
has a spare Linux box around they want to install this on, I would be
more than happy.
The idea is a very basic one.
Right now our distfiles mirrors serve HTTP, which is fine, they all
decided to do this for us, none the less it is eating a whole lot of
bandwidth and sometimes they might fail. Some sources aren't as wide
spread on the Internet anymore as one might think, so ans an
_unofficial_ service I was thinking about adding a Fink torrent tracker
for Fink related files and source files you need to install packages
with fink (the command line tool fink).
If you feel that this is a feasible Idea, please let me know I will
gladly advance this idea. I wish I could offer a working system already,
but as I said, mod_bt failed me miserably and I am not bittorrent
expert. If someone can recommend an adequate replacement _including_ a
system that announces the newly added torrents automatically, then I
would be more than grateful to hear about it.
Thank you kindly.
PS: This is a cross post DO NOT ANSWER to BOTH lists. Pick one! Thank you.
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Re: [Fink-devel] epiphany dependencie problem - xml-parser-pm doens't exist

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Kevin Horton wrote:
| I'm communicating with a fink user on the MaxOSXHints forum:
|
| http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?p=133778
|
| He can't install epiphany.  It seems that epiphany depends on
| xml-parser-pm, yet that pm was removed from fink's tree a couple of
| months ago for some reason.
|
|
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/fink/dists/10.3/unstable/main/finkinfo/libs/perlmods/Attic/xml-parser-pm.info
|
|
I have just added xml-parser-pm581 | xml-parser-pm580 | xml-parser-pm560
instead of xml-parser-pm
I hope this fixes it. Please excuse my proactive behaviour Gnome Core
Team, but I was looking at it anyways. I hope this a correct fix :)
- -d
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[Fink-devel] Re: dists/10.3/unstable/crypto/finkinfo gnutls.info, 1.6, 1.7 libgcrypt.info, 1.3, 1.4 libgpg-error.info, 1.3, 1.4 libtasn1.info, 1.2, 1.3 opencdk.info, 1.4, 1.5

[David H.]

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Corey Halpin wrote:
|

|
|   There seem to be only three packages (aside from mine) that depend on
| any of these things (msmtp, xmlsec, and gsasl).  I'll contact their
| maintainers to notify them of this change.
|
All three are my packages :)
However one thing. With the new BuildDependsOnly: True, have you set
those splittoffs which install headers files to be BuildDependsOnly ?
- -d
|   I know it'll stir a few things up, but this change makes my libraries
| more consistent with the rest of fink, which I think, at the end of the
| day, is a Good Thing (tm).
|
Yes, as I said, I was not looking very closely, so I was merely
commenting to get an answer :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] How should fink remove & purge handle editor recover files

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Blair Zajac wrote:
| I have the jove.info package which is a tiny version of Emacs, which I
| like because it starts up fast.
|
| It has a global directory /var/tmp/jove where it dumps recover and
| temporary files, unlike vi's .swp files which are in the same directory
| as the file being edited.
|
| So I'm wondering how best to handle files in /var/tmp/jove, which could

In my humble opinion it should be %p/var/tmp/jove in the first place. If
you cannot influence that by configure you will have to patch the
sources. as soon as it is within the Fink hierachy you can do whatever
you want to
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Re: [Fink-devel] fatback in fink

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Remi Mommsen wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Long time ago (9/5/03) I notified the maintainer (cc'd) that I believe
| that this package cannot be distributed by fink (at least not under
| GPL). Seeing the cvs commit message, I'm surprised that it is still
| there. In COPYING is clearly stated:
|
| 
| * NOTICE:
| * The following license applies only to the
| * files getopt.c, getopt.h, and getopt1.c.
| * these are borrowed from glibc.
| * This licence does not in any way apply
| * to the remainder of the fatback program
| *
|
| GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
|Version 2, June 1991
|
|  Copyright (C) 1989, 1991 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
|  59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA  02111-1307  USA
|  Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies
|  of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.
|
| Preamble
| ...
|
|
| while fatback-manual.info states:
|
|Copyright (C) 2000-2001 DoD Computer Forensics Lab This manual and
| the Fatback program are for *government and law enforcement use only*.
|

Well, there is a legal loophole if that is the only thing that is stated
there. They might be for "government and law enforcement use only" but
it mentions nowhere how, who and how the software itself might be
distributed. I know , it really seems odd to keep the package, but
legally speaking, I do not see much of an issue, however I will run it
by the legal team tomorrow.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] rsync mirrors out of sync

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Martin Costabel wrote:
| Has anyone else noticed that the master rsync mirror doesn't respond any
| more and that - apart from two Japanese URLs - the other rsync mirrors
| don't seem to synchronize currently?
|
| I ran a little check over the rsync mirror list in
| /sw/lib/fink/mirrors/rsync, listing the TIMESTAMP file. For those
| mirrors that answered at all, the time of last synchronizations seems
| mostly to vary between two days and 6 weeks. Here is the result:
|
| $ for MIRR in `grep rsync /sw/lib/fink/mirror/rsync | awk '{print $2}'`
| ; do echo $MIRR: ; rsync -zv $MIRR/TIMESTAMP |grep TIMESTAMP ; echo ; done
| rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/:
| @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
| rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (67 bytes read so far)
| rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at
| /SourceCache/rsync/rsync-12/rsync/io.c(165)
|
| rsync://sfo.ca.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/:
| @ERROR: max connections (15) reached - try again later
| rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (67 bytes read so far)
| rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at
| /SourceCache/rsync/rsync-12/rsync/io.c(165)
|
As you can see there are issues with the Master mirror. Which means that
ALL mirrors except for the Australian and the japanese Master mirrors
are automatically out of sync. I know there is one server that has
issues, the maintainer is contacted, same goes for the US Master mirror,
bbraun is contacted as well.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] fink and iInstaller

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Min Xu wrote:
| Hi,
|
| I recently found my newly installed fink was crashing because I have
installed
| some old version of libfreetype in /usr/local by iInstaller. This
| makes me wondering
| should fink restrict it is search path? 
/usr/local is a default search path which _cannot_ be changed.
The FAQ ad various places in the FAQ state over and over again that you
should NOT puzt stuff into /usr/local, it _will_ break fink, just
because that is how the deafult search path from the compiler works.
There is nothing we can do :)
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Changed MD5 handling: solved broken SF mirror problem?

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Daniel Macks wrote:
| I just patched fink in CVS HEAD to check MD5 checksum as each source
| tarball is downloaded and treat a mismatch as a download failure. For
| the end-user, that means if the download process succeeds but gets the
| incorrect file (hello, broken SF mirrors), he will immediately get the
| "try next mirror?" options.
|
| This solves a major problem useres are having and I'd love to get it
| into the next 0.20.x release, so if people could please test
| downloading and re-downloading with various broken and non-broken
| sites and let me know if it works...
|
I just noticed that this breaks a convinince for developers. Because
wheny ou update an info file _without_ adding the MD5 sum (which you
presumably do not know by then) the download loop falsely assumes you
got the wrong file. So you end up "quitting" typing fink build foo
again, soy ou get the right loop this time.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] cvs-1.11.17-1 woes

[David H.]

a) Contact the CVS guys and tell them to fix this
Already done. CURL does not accept self signed SSL certs as it seems. I 
contacted them a long time ago.
b) In the meantime, if you have a copy of the source which you 
definitely know is safe, post that somewhere safe and change the source 
URL of the .info file in the meantime?
I know some of the CVS folk personally so getting verified sources is a 
none issue, but I have no upload rights to our SF files section.
c) If you have no guranteed-to-be-safe copy of the source, maybe pull 
this for now?
See above.
-d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Policy and apache 1.3.x modules

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Martin Langhoff (NZL) wrote:

Is this within fink policy? What alternatives do I have in making this 
module compliant?

No. You are not allowed to install _anything_ outside of /sw-
There is one exception which is some special case when handling Apple's 
X11 and that is it.
If you wish to provide this package you have to depend on the Fink 
supplied Apache and you have to install the Fink supplied apache 
together with your module.


This module is part of Midgard (http://www.midgard-project.org/), a 
powerful CMF/CMS which is packaged in four parts: the core midgard 
library, an Apache module, a PHP extension, and a "data" module.
All of those _cannot_ run with the Apple supplied Apache, you have to 
build the Fink version and use it as well.

That is a very strict rule we stick to, so it is highly unlikely your 
package would be accepted the way you are providing it now.

I hope that helps :)
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: [Fink-users] Upgrading to 10.3.4 and emacs21

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Martin Costabel wrote:

but this principle has always been 
more a pious wish than reality.
Could you explain in more detail what you mean?
Thank you.
- -d
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Re: [Fink-devel] svn wants system-java14-dev

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Peter" == Peter O'Gorman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Peter> Yeah, it was the top news item on fink's home page for a while. It is
Peter> still on the front page though.
Thanks...  you mean I have to read the news? :) :)
Yes you do, didn't you know that we hold an annual 'question askers that 
have already been asked' banquette.
There we indulge ourselves in those who asked questions already answered 
*grin'

(just kidding of course)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: experimental/dmrrsn/perlmods c-scan-pm.info,NONE,1.1 data-flow-pm.info,NONE,1.1 dbi-pm560.info,NONE,1.1 dbi-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 dbi-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 dbix-searchbuilder-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 glib-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 gnome-panel.info,NONE,1.1 gnome-panel.patch,NONE,1.1 gtk-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 gtk2-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 gtkhtml3.info,NONE,1.1 gtkhtml3.patch,NONE,1.1 html-tree-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 interpolation-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 libsablot.info,NONE,1.1 libwww-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 libxml-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 mime-base64-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 rmagic.info,NONE,1.1 template-notex-pm560.info,NONE,1.1 template-notex-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 template-notex-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 template-pm560.info,NONE,1.1 template-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 template-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 term-progressbar-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 uri-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 www-search-altavista-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 www-search-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 xml-dom-pm560.info,NONE,1.1 xml-dom-pm580.info,NONE,1.1 xml-dom-pm581.info,NONE,1.1 xml-libxml-! pm581.info,NONE,1.1 xml-simple-pm5

[David H.]

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Ben Hines wrote:
>The old style is extremely deprecated.
^^^
When did we decide on that? Since I was not reading the mailing lists 
for a bit last wekk (was very busy), I might have overlooked the 
discussion, but I am curious and would love to read up. Thanks

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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: dists/10.3/unstable/main/finkinfo/shells scsh-install-lib.info,NONE,1.1

[David H.]

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Christian Schaffner wrote:

I do nto think that anything but true _shells_ should be in that  
category.


I couldn't find any discussion about that (nor docu) but i might have  
missed something. I am not sure what to do in this case. Please  advise...

Well, that is because there has been no discussion at all :)
I did not mean to correct you, I was more asking for input. But since 
that is a library which provides extension _for_ a shell, I think it 
should be in "libs"

Your opinion ?

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Re: [Fink-devel] w3m 1.5

[David H.]

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ASARI Takashi wrote:

We made w3m 1.5.1 's  info files, and sent it to the original maintainer.
A month has passed, but we get no reply from him.
Can we take him over?

w3m 1.5 has i18n support, so we really need it.

I guess that is fine. Unless the Core developer have any objections, I 
would say, go ahead.

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Re: [Fink-devel] freetype-1.3.1-6

[David H.]

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Alexander K. Hansen wrote:

Maybe it's a missing dependency on freetype-shlibs:  that's where the 
libraries should be.

Actually, if he is looking for a _static_ library there should be a -dev 
splittoff including the headers AND the static library as far as I can 
recall.

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Re: [Fink-devel] Tell Apple about Fink 0.7.0

[David H.]

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Martin Costabel wrote:

On the Apple opensource software web page 
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/unix_open_source/ which every Mac 
owner can find only two clicks away from their Apple menu, there is a 
link to Fink, but only to version 0.6.2.

There is also a link to an update page 
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/submit/ . I think it would be a 
good idea if someone used this to tell Apple about the existence of 
0.7.0 and 0.6.3. Or were they already told and ignored it?

I have done this already. It is part of my routine updates to web-sites 
and contacts, when a new version is released :) Just takes Apple some 
time :)

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Re: [Fink-devel] apps in Fink - a final decision?

[David H.]

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Jeff Whitaker wrote:

All:  I'm working on a new r-base package which will include R built as a
framework and R.app (in addition to the command line X11 version of R).  I
went back and re-read the thread on .apps in Fink, but it didn't seem like
there was any consensus on the issue of whether to install symlinks or
aliases for apps in %p/Applications.  My new r-base package now does this:


I thinkt this all sounds reasonable, yet there is one thing that needs 
to be implemented yet. Ressource Fork handling needs to be implemneted 
properly. This is something that might not apply to all apps, but it has 
to be there so that it can be handled properly should it be needed.

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Re: [Fink-devel] How to test the two variants of a package?

[David H.]

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Martin Costabel wrote:


Did you test wether this is really faster? I doubt that it's true. The 
parsing of variants and the creation of the virtual multiple packages is 
probably slower than the parsing of multiple but simpler info files.

Yes I did. One of our biggest bottle necks is I/O. Basically the things 
fink does internally are faster than we can feed those functions data. I 
did test this and the less data is read/written to/from the disk, the 
faster the overall situation gets.

All in all I can understand your concerns, but they have nothing to do 
with variants themselves, it is only a matter of introducing a strict 
and proper package testing procedure.


This is a little naive. People's behavior is strongly influenced by the 
tools they are using. Do you really expect that the maintainer of gimp2 
has tested all 16 packages created from the gimp2.info file?

No, it is not naive at all. I (and the core team as well as others) have 
been working the past 16 months to get procedures like this into place 
and for some things that works pretty well. Until now there has not 
really been a need for a strict package testing procedure, but with 
variants that might just become the case. The question is how to find a 
way to best implement this. making things as easy as possible, while 
still requiring a thorough check for variants enabled packages.
My general advise would be to acquire a G5 or similar machine where 
selected people can have shell access. This machine would do nothing 
else but compile packages and their variants.


Nice dream :-)

Not at all. There are enough that already hinted they want to sponsor 
hardware. As soon as Fink INC. is reality, that will be a possibility.

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Re: [Fink-devel] How to test the two variants of a package?

[David H.]

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Martin Costabel wrote:



I always thought this is a bad idea that 
invites to produce a lot of non-tested packages. Why not just make two 
clean info files?
Because it is a matter of scalability. When you have a piece of software 
that supports many variants like

with ssl, without ssl, with blah, without blah. with x , without x and 
so on, a maintainer cannot be expected to take care of 3 separate files 
just to take care of one software piece.

Furthermore it is a matter of bandwidth and being considerate toward our 
user community. To some it does make a difference how much data they 
blast over the wire and not duplicating such fields as Description or 
the like also keeps the database smaller.
Furthermore the amount of data that gets read during a fink index or a 
fink info is a lot smaller. All in all I can understand your concerns, 
but they have nothing to do with variants themselves, it is only a 
matter of introducing a strict and proper package testing procedure.

My general advise would be to acquire a G5 or similar machine where 
selected people can have shell access. This machine would do nothing 
else but compile packages and their variants.

- -d


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Re: [Fink-devel] New package: pgp4pine

[David H.]

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Alexander K. Hansen wrote:

  The homepage link titled "Submit a new Fink package" simply
leads to the SourceForge package request tracker -- which doesn't seem
to provide any obvious method for actually *submitting* a new package.
Thanks again,
- Hoss
Ummm...sure it does.  That's where you are supposed to upload .info and 
.patch files.

Even though it does I agree with Mister Firoonza. If we could come up 
with a better way to submit packages, I guess that could be appreciated, 
because the fact that you have to have a SF account in order to be able 
to submit does limit our contrinutor range. (yes, some people like me do 
not want to sign up on every web-site they come across...)

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Re: [Fink-devel] gimp-app

[David H.]

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Kyle Moffett wrote:

On Mar 30, 2004, at 20:56, Alexander Strange wrote:

The Gimp 2.0 isn't a ripoff because I haven't finished the package 
yet. He does provide the original Gimp sources, but if the 
"application bundle" contains anything else it would need to be 
published as well (but it's not a violation until someone asks him and 
he refuses, I believe).


He only provides a link to the sources on a GIMP mirror, whereas the GPL 
requires him to properly host the source on his own server. 

Actually that is not quite clear. Even our 5 lawyers cannot pin it down 
if you only have to provide a liunk, if you have to throw CD's at people 
or host the sources on your own ressources.

- -d :)
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Incorrect ConfigureParams in zsh-4.2.0

[David H.]

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jfm wrote:

On Mar 27, 2004, at 10:39 PM, David H. wrote:

Gary Kerbaugh wrote:

As far as whether or not to include it with zsh, I have to defer 
to your
experience. As I think about it, it does seem easier to make it a 
separate
package. The zsh-script.info should be pretty easy and I could alter the
scripts without having to change the zsh package. I'll let you know 
when I
write it. It won't take that long but I don't have much time at the 
moment.
good. Do you think your scripts make zsh a better default experience ? 
If so then we can depend on the zsh-scripts.info from within the zsh.info


Or "Suggest" or "Recommend"  ? _ no need to Depend it would seem to me


Suggest and Recommend does not work for source installs, fink ignores 
those fields. If those scripts really do improve the whole zsh 
experience a LOT, then I feel it is feasable to depend on them

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[Fink-devel] Re: Incorrect ConfigureParams in zsh-4.2.0

[David H.]

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Gary Kerbaugh wrote:

on 3/27/04 12:49 PM, David H. wrote:


Hoi Mister Kerbaugh


Hoi back 'atchya,

Hoi polloi-'R-us, eh? However please, it's Gary. :-)

Well it is David then. Where I live it is not common to use the first 
name when addressing "strangers", so hello Gary.

It looks like to me that using my fix and setting DESTDIR in the
InstallScript would fix this problem.
Yes, that is what I realised as well. This is the "fix" I am using now.


So that does fix it? Great! It's my impression from what I read that
this is very close to the original intent of the $DESTDIR variable. There's
one other issue that I just noticed. To be in line with the new zsh install
location, the two ConfigureParams should be:
--enable-fndir=%p/etc/zsh/4.2.0/functions
--enable-site-fndir=%p/etc/zsh/4.2.0/site-functions
Fine, we want to be conforming with the rules :)

 

I distribute the scripts at http://kerbaugh.uncfsu.edu/zsh.tar.gz. If
you unpack the tarball in your home directory, it will create an init/zsh in
your ~/Library directory. The scripts are inside that. To use with fink, I'd
have to repack the tarball with a different directory structure (no-brainer)
and edit references between scripts with a one-line Perl substitution so
that would be the easiest thing in the world to do.
As far as whether or not to include it with zsh, I have to defer to your
experience. As I think about it, it does seem easier to make it a separate
package. The zsh-script.info should be pretty easy and I could alter the
scripts without having to change the zsh package. I'll let you know when I
write it. It won't take that long but I don't have much time at the moment.
good. Do you think your scripts make zsh a better default experience ? 
If so then we can depend on the zsh-scripts.info from within the zsh.info

I apologize for how slow my response is but NASA's X-43A Mach 7 scramjet
is just about to launch. If you like that kind of thing and you have Real
Player, you can watch on web TV by going to
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/daily_updates.html and clicking on
NASA TV. Fortunately, there is finally a free Real Player that is OS X
native. The "show" is probably on the NASA TV channel if your cable co. has
that.
I am watching :)

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