Re: Bits my Fjord likes
This message is from: Amy Evers fjord...@aol.com I drive my Fjords and trail ride, so I'm not too worried about dressage legal or show legal other than driving - just their comfort. All of mine seem to like a solid low port mouth, with little or no leverage. So, I use Uxeter Kimberwicks with solid low port mouths. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Cottage Grove OR 97424 = Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Bits your fjord likes best
This message is from: rbc...@yahoo.com When my fjords were young we rode them in either a french link snaffle or myler comfort snaffle. I don't think using an elevator or gag is the solution to getting a 4 year old up. He needs to gain strength and balance and learn to carry himself. I don't think it is unusual for a 4 year old to be heavy on the forehand. I have a warmblood who likes to get on the forehand and all a more severe bit does to him is make him curl up. A 4 year old needs slow consistent work and training to learn to carry himself and therefore lighten his forehand. You might experiment with different types and widths of snaffles and see what he goes better in. There is at least one tack store that will let you trial the myler bits for like 5 dollars or you could see if you could borrow some from friends for him to try. Cheers, Robin who has escaped the heat of Florida for the heat of philadelphia for the 4th of July Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Gary Angie Proper agap...@mhcable.com Sender: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 18:42:58 To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Bits your fjord likes best This message is from: Gary Angie Proper agap...@mhcable.com Just curious if anyone out there would like to share what bit their fjord works best in, in the ring and on the trail. My 4 yr old gelding is working in a myler low port comfort snaffle. He goes pretty well in it. We are only walk/trot at this point. I am lungeing him to work on his balance and improve his ability to carry himself. He does tend to fall in on his shoulder when we trot a circle and counterbend if he is being a brat. He is heavy on his forehand and have heard that and elevator or gag bit may get him up a bit more and not rooting around. He is a good fun boy, but different than other horses I have ridden. Hoping others will share what they use, and maybe their training programs. Angie and Thomas Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Bits for sale
This message is from: Jill's Computer jnako...@mac.com Hi Robin: Just wanted to let you know I got the bits today - they are terrific! Thanks a lot, Jill K. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I have some bit questions. Can you give me some suggestions about where to get bits larger than 5? They just aren't available at stores around here. I will have to order them. I wish I could see them in person before buying. What size bit do your Fjords typically need? I know, of course, that bit size needs will vary. I do have the bit measuring device which helps. Thanks in advance for the information. Linda ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: Carol Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use a 5 -1/2 inch size bit and I like what Iowa Valley Carriage has to offer at reasonable prices. iowavalleycarriage.com Get back to me if you cannot access the catalog from this site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I have some bit questions. Can you give me some suggestions about where to get bits larger than 5? They just aren't available at stores around here. I will have to order them. I wish I could see them in person before buying. What size bit do your Fjords typically need? I know, of course, that bit size needs will vary. I do have the bit measuring device which helps. Thanks in advance for the information. Linda ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw -- Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Linda, Both my boys ride in eggbutt french link snaffles. Val is a 5 1/2 and Alf is a 5. Dover saddlery has alot of english bits online and in their catalog. Good luck Susan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:25 am Subject: Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I have some bit questions. Can you give me some suggestions about where to get bits larger than 5? They just aren't available at stores around here. I will have to order them. I wish I could see them in person before buying. What size bit do your Fjords typically need? I know, of course, that bit size needs will vary. I do have the bit measuring device which helps. Thanks in advance for the information. Linda ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Carol and Susan. I'm beginning to realize that it might be easier to find an English bit than Western. I like the idea of the eggbutt french link snaffle. I'll check out the web sites also. Linda ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: jen frame [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Sue. That is the bit I had intended to buy, and now hearing that you find it works for your Fjord, I think I'll just go ahead and order it. Just to clarify: do you ride and drive in the exact same bit, or did you buy a riding bit that is also a glory? (Glory is a type of mouthpiece that is very similar to the mullen mouth piece, but it allows even MORE room for the tongue than the mullen--it is slightly more arched). I have seen many bits with a mullen mouthpiece, but have never seen a Glory mouthpiece on a riding bit, so I am wondering if it is OK to ride and drive in a Glory driving bit. And by ok I don't mean OK by show rules, I mean OK for the horse to use a driving bit for riding. I know this is a very basic and naiive question, but perhaps the different angle of the reins when riding versus driving dictates the use of a riding bit while riding and a driving bit while driving?? Jen On 11/5/07, safreivald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: safreivald [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I bought my Fjord gelding from Julie Will she recommended the Glory butterfly bit (mullen) for him. I took her advice and ordered one--he was very comfortable and responsive in it, so I got another one for my riding bridle--if it works, my philosophy is, don't fix it. And since I ride and drive purely for pleasure, I have only my pony and me to please. So when I got a work harness, I got another Glory butterfly . . . A friend tried to drive him in a broken snaffle and he HATED it!.Sue F. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits for riding and driving Fjords
This message is from: Fiona Lindsay-Delfino [EMAIL PROTECTED] They do make Glory riding bits. jen frame [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: jen frame Thanks Sue. That is the bit I had intended to buy, and now hearing that you find it works for your Fjord, I think I'll just go ahead and order it. Just to clarify: do you ride and drive in the exact same bit, or did you buy a riding bit that is also a glory? (Glory is a type of mouthpiece that is very similar to the mullen mouth piece, but it allows even MORE room for the tongue than the mullen--it is slightly more arched). I have seen many bits with a mullen mouthpiece, but have never seen a Glory mouthpiece on a riding bit, so I am wondering if it is OK to ride and drive in a Glory driving bit. And by ok I don't mean OK by show rules, I mean OK for the horse to use a driving bit for riding. I know this is a very basic and naiive question, but perhaps the different angle of the reins when riding versus driving dictates the use of a riding bit while riding and a driving bit while driving?? Jen On 11/5/07, safreivald wrote: This message is from: safreivald When I bought my Fjord gelding from Julie Will she recommended the Glory butterfly bit (mullen) for him. I took her advice and ordered one--he was very comfortable and responsive in it, so I got another one for my riding bridle--if it works, my philosophy is, don't fix it. And since I ride and drive purely for pleasure, I have only my pony and me to please. So when I got a work harness, I got another Glory butterfly . . . A friend tried to drive him in a broken snaffle and he HATED it!. Sue F. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Fiona Lindsay Delfino Box 51 S.Strafford, VT 05070 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (C) 603 359 0150 (S) 910 277 5491 (H) 802 765 4534 Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits
This message is from: Sarah Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doversaddlery.com/search.asp?ss=mullen+t=ssx=9y=8 Cheryl, hopefully I have correctly copied the link. If so, it should take you to the Dover Saddlery page where they have a selection of mullen mouths. (they do not always carry these in tack stores.) Sarah - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits and passenger lesson
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] A mullen mouth snaffle, with a solid mouth, would be kinder than a single jointed snaffle, but there is no leverage with a snaffle, only a direct pull (shanked snaffles are not snaffles, but really are curb bits because they have leverage.) The level 1 Myler comfort snaffle is a good choice, about the same as a french link, and a full cheek Myler comfort snaffle as well as the full cheek French link would be a good choice. The Mullen mouth bit has a curve in the mouthpiece that accommodates the horse with a larger tongue and lower palate, the Glory bits have a mouthpiece that is curved yet angled somewhat between a Mullen and an arch mouth. all depends on which way the curve goes: In line with the shanks, or at right angles to the shanks in the case of a curb bit. Yes, a curb bit can have a mullen mouth. Confusing/? get Dr. Deb Bennet's DVD set, The Anatomy of Bitting, lots of info on bits and the anatomy of a horses mouth and how the bit works in the mouth. http://www.equinestudies.org/cddvd.html#Bitting Myler has a nice little booklet out also on bits. I like the Myler bits because they are shaped to fit the horses mouth. I have found that the solid low port mouthpiece with the elbow cheeks or the butterfly cheeks ( both driving style bits) works well for my bit Gelding, Bjorken, the myler bits are thinner which also seems more comfortable for the fjords with less room in their mouth due to the large tongue and low palate. I use the first slot below the snaffle setting in the elbow bit for trail riding, sometimes use two reins, snaffle and curb as in a pelham with the butterfly. I also use the Glory butterfly, but Bjorken seems happier with the Myler low port as he has more tongue room. After watch Buck Brannaman's videos starting the Bridle horse, I would begin a young horse in a myler snaffle , maybe full cheek and teach him to yield to pressure, with a release at the slightest try. I am doing some of that with my 19 year old Bjorken, and he is getting much lighter also! Jean in Fairbanks,Alaska, -18 degrees RE: bits and fjords I've heard the Mullen mouth bit mentioned before, but nixed it cause it looked so severe (in my mind). Is the Mullen mouth a kinder bit but give you the extra leverage on a strong neck? Rubber or metal preferred? I have kind hands with the other horses, but the fjord takes some strength and leg. Meanwhile, ground work and trying to instill a work ethic in a very sweet and cute fjord who would rather eat (!!) continues...I wish I could unlock his mind to be a more willing partner, but if a Mullen is kind and would help, I'd go buy one. Any thoughts appreciated. Cheryl in S. Cal The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] CHERYL GARNICA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After asking and reading the same bit QA's over time, my philosophy ( flawed??) was if the horse was more comfortable with his bit, I (hoped) would have a more willing, relaxed and thus listening partner. My collection is a snaffle, Level One Myler Comfort Snaffle and latest is a French Link Full Cheek Snaffle (best) which seems to give my fjord the extra reminder. My guy is young,green, strong and learning. I've heard the Mullen mouth bit mentioned before, but nixed it cause it looked so severe (in my mind). I'm somewhat puzzled why you thought a Mullen mouth bit looked severe? The mullen mouthpiece is simply a variation of the smooth bar mouthpiece, just with a shallow, gentle curve to it. This curve allows more space for the horse's tongue, so the bit rests (and can act) on the tongue and the bars of the mouth, spreading the pressure somewhat. Two of my Fjords (and my donkey) had noticable objections to bits with single-jointed mouthpieces, and went much better in bits with bar mouthpieces, such as the mullen-mouth. Is the Mullen mouth a kinder bit but give you the extra leverage on a strong neck? Rubber or metal preferred? I have kind hands with the other horses, but the fjord takes some strength and leg. I think you may be confusing the effects of the mouthpiece, and the effects of the cheekpieces. A mullen mouthpiece can be accompanied by loose rings, or by full-cheeks, or by leveraged cheekpieces with a curb chain (such as in a liverpool). It is the cheekpieces that make a bit a snaffle (no leverage) or a curb (leverage) bit, not the mouthpiece. And, it is the leverage that can magnify your hand signal into something noticable, or painful---depending on how you use it. Most mullen-mouthed bits are metal. I suppose one could be constructed of the newer plastics, but a rubber one wouldn't maintain the curve. (Or, I suppose one could say that a rubber bar bit turns into a mullen-mouth, i.e. curves, when the reins are pulled!) Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 15 mi SW of Roseburg, Oregon The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] i think one of the things i learned from my former trainer (aside from the fact she did not like oz), was how to use what she uses and is called a special guidance rein. it's designed for beginners, but i still will use it when i ride western. the reins split before the bit, with the lower part being longer. it's used with a short shank leverage bit, and when it's pulled to the side, it has the same effect as a snaffle, with direct reining. by pulling back, you engage the lower rein, which causes the leverage to be used. it's almost like riding a double bridle without having to juggle two reins. here's a link to her site: _http://www.brainerd.net/~rockingt/SpecialRein.htm_ maybe it explains it better than i can. we also add a running martingale. laurie, and oz, who wonders where the snow is??? The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits and pees
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/4/2007 9:32:37 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: whenever she sees me coming, Lana pees. I sure don't know what causes this behavior, but we had a similar case; a Percheron mare that would pee as soon as she saw us coming to feed. Morning, evening and anytime in between - if you had feed and she saw it she'd pee. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords 260 May Creek Rd Days Creek, OR 97429 541-825-3303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: bits and pees
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] My Mare Stella has always done this: Every time she thinks there is FOOD coming, or just when I show up (she also thinks that means FOOD I guess) she will run over to her special spot and pee. I think she is just preparing for action ! Her granddaughter Adel also does it to some extent, altho not as consistently. I have never hear of the Coronet Glory bit, but there is a Liverpool style, butterfly style and the newer Riding Glory bit. And of course I have at least one of each! My Fjords go well in them and seem to like them. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, -10 F I have had Lana now for about 4 months. One thing she does however, and I don't know if it is unusual behavior or not, that I think is kinda odd, probably because the boys don't do this, is whenever she sees me coming, Lana pees. It doesn't matter if I'm there just for a visit, for feeding, or whatever, every time she sees me coming, she goes to the potty pile, and pees. Then she comes right over to the gate to meet me, even shooing the boys away (and she is not bossy) until she gets her scratches. Should I be honored or insulted by such a greeting? The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Bits (Jerry Friz)
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am far from an expert on horse training but I did teach school for 36 1/2 years so I can say with some authority that if one learning style worked for all kids, my job would have been a lot less complicated...and, possibly, less interesting. How much different can it be for what works well with different horses? Kay at Yellow Pony Farm and Braveheart, who likes his Liverpool and Bogie, who likes his Bosal and Clementine, who likes to eat grass
Re: Bits (Jerry Friz)
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Jerry Fritz, You make some very good points and I am especially impressed with your discussion about old iron bits. I had a wall full and have given away fifty or so. Any junk store or antique store usually has them on the wall some place. Old barns etc. I have kept primarily odd or imaginative irons with some very old cowboy ones also. There is an old Spokane curb bit that is so fragile it could not have been a strong deterrent!!! Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
Re: Bits
This message is from: Warren Stockwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now all will know my lack of knowledge in the show ring. my experience is pretty limited so this conversation is very interesting but a bit over my head. Probably shouldn't even pipe in : ) I got my riding knowledge from the school of hard knocks. In other words the horse thought me. I did take some lessons as I got older. I learned to work WITH the horse, not against. I was also told that the bit is a tool for fine tuning not controlling. I was told that if you cannot ride the horse without the bit you have more training to do. I learned that if you have to use a bit to stop, you need to stop! I learned that it is a complement if you can get what you want with the less or no bit. So I have always thought that I should ride and show in the bit that is the least but most complementary to the performance. I know that this is not the reality. I just don't understand how/why some one judging the performance who knows not my horse, should have a say in what equipment works best for my horse. Other than abuse issues. With all the knowledge on this list maybe I can get cleared up on this. However it may not change my way of doing things. So when you see me (or my poor daughter) riding with the wrong bit, it's cuz I generally get the best performance with that equipment. And honestly I don't know any better : ) Roberta MN
Re: bits allowed for evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 5/16/2006 10:22:12 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guess what? I have a 6 yo mare who has nothing noticeable or technically wrong w/ her mouth + palate, (even did a bit seat for her) but she is VERY sensitive and really dislikes the snaffle. OK, I'll come out of the closet and admit it... I use a Kimberwick!! Several in fact, in both my riding and driving bridles. I too found that my mares resisted and showed a real dislike for a regular snaffle bit with it's jointed mouth. Definition of snaffle... Most people think anything with a jointed or broken mouth piece is a snaffle. not so. A snaffle, as defined in a few VERY old books I had the privilege of perusing as Small Farmer's Journal when I worked there, is a bit which has a direct pull from the mouth piece to the hand (meaning no leverage). So, a snaffle can have just about any type of mouth piece. My horses happen to prefer a low port mouth. Try finding an Eggbutt with a low port mouth! Ah, but the a Kimberwick DOES come in a low port. And if used on the full ring or the upper slot, there is no leverage. So... Why does it not qualify as a snaffle? Just wondering... Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords 260 May Creek Rd Days Creek, OR 97429 541-825-3303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: bits allowed for evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ah, but the a Kimberwick DOES come in a low port. And if used on the full ring or the upper slot, there is no leverage. So... Why does it not qualify as a snaffle? According to what I understand from reading the USEF/USDF rules, the problem with the kimberwicke is that the reins can be attached to provide curb action. The fact that a person could choose to use the bit without curb action is irrelevant as far as the USEF/USDF rules are concerned. DeeAnna
Re: bits allowed for evaluation
This message is from: Steve Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wait . a broken bit and a snaffle bit are describing two different things. A snaffle is a bit that works off a ring or 'D' with no to extremely little leverage. It can have a broken mouthpiece or a mullen mouthpeice, etc. A broken mouth Western bit with leverage from shanks is not a snaffle. So, a snaffle can have a broken mouthpeice, but a bit with shanks cannot be a snaffle even if it has a broken mouthpeice. ~ Meredith Sessoms ~
Re: Bits--mylar and otherwise
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] According to the USEF/USDF rules, kimberwicke bits are not permitted in USEF/USDF-recognized dressage competitions at ANY level. See: http://www.goodhorseman.org/Legal%20Bits.pdf DeeAnna
Re: bits allowed for evaluations
This message is from: Pat Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] We polled other trainers/owners and Wayne Hipsley, the chief evaluator, and all were in agreement that other bits should be allowed--that the bit component of the rules needed to be re-evaluated--especially for the advanced tests. After all, other bits are allowed in driving and the western tests. Very well put Ardeth, This has been a concern of mine and a few other trainers for several years. You are not alone on your observations. I do not know how to get the rule changed. I also brought it to the attention of a evaluation committee member last year at Lacrosse and nothing has changed. At the very least, we whom have the experiance and knowledge of the discrimination understand it. Those making the rules apparently do not. I'm with you Ardeth - but have no clue how to change it. Pat Holland
Re: bits allowed for evaluations
This message is from: Lori Albrough [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat Holland wrote: At the very least, we whom have the experiance and knowledge of the discrimination understand it. Those making the rules apparently do not. I was a member of the evaluation committee when the issue of bits for English tests was reviewed. I believe this took place just over one year ago, and was a result of requests for clarification by members. Anne Appleby was also a member of the committee when this rather extensive discussion was held. I do not know what you mean by we whom have the experience and knowledge of the discrimation understand it. I have been riding since I was 11 years old (whoa, that makes 30 years). I have ridden in all types of English riding except saddleseat. I understand the use of bits in english riding, and it is much easier to make a horse look trained in a bit with leverage. You cannot fake it in a snaffle. I missed part of this list discussion, but my feeling is if you are attempting to demonstrate that your horse is either trained, or not, a snaffle bit provides a level playing field. In any warmblood registry performance test (horses bred for the Olympic disciplines) a snaffle bit is the allowed bit. Lori Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords Moorefield Ontario http://www.bluebirdlane.com
Re: Bits--mylar and otherwise
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] The NFHR eval testing is NOT a sanctioned dressage test in any way - or am I wrong here? Karen McCarthyGreat Basin Fjords :: Carson City, Nevadahttp://www.picturetrail.com/weegees From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Bits--mylar and otherwise Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:36:04 -0500 This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] According to the USEF/USDF rules, kimberwicke bits are not permitted in USEF/USDF-recognized dressage competitions at ANY level. See: http://www.goodhorseman.org/Legal%20Bits.pdf DeeAnna
Re: bits allowed for evaluations
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lori and everyone else who reads this list and is concerend about this, I think we need to remember that we are not trying to do a 'pure' dressage test, nor a 'pure' western test...I thought the intent of the evals was to make the testing accessible to most fjord owners, not you and i and the others who train + show on a regular basis.. If i was going to show at a recognised dressage show of course i would comply w/ the equipment rules, but if someone regulary rides his/her fjordhorse in a pelham, and does do correctly, who gives a hoot? I would rather see a happy horse in a pelham than one hanging and gapping open mouthed in a snaffle. Guess what? I have a 6 yo mare who has nothing noticable or technically wrong w/ her mouth + palate, (even did a bit seat for her) but she is VERY sensitive and really dislikes the snaffle.Any broken mouthed snaffle. She is a champ in the bosal, and that is how i have been training her, espeically on her lateral work. Now would i be able to show her western in a bosal,? No, as she is 5+ years old. Do I think it sucks? Yes. But that's ok, I will proceed w/ her training and get her in the bridle. There is alot of refinement and subtlety w/ a bosal, and also the opposite if one needs it. Same goes in a curb bit. So why have some arbitrary rule that sticks blindly to pure dressage for our NFHR tests? Its NOT a dressage competion...Its a place to take a trained horse between the ages of 3-? and show the judges that said horse is capable of the tasks presented to him by the level of the NFHR test, not the USDF! I believe the test also is described as an 'English' test, so that being what it is, under english tack, a curb bit IS accepatble. So why is there this resistance? Some of you may not know or remember, but I was once a part of the original Eval comm. years ago, and this was one of the main concerns brought up during the design of the tests, that they NOt be over-technical, and be easy to interpret and execute by an average person who rides frequently, but be able to demonstrate the horses movement and trainability. If someone feels their horse is best shown in a Kimberwick over a snaffle in the Intro test, do it. Or a Pelham for the adv. tests. I have been out of the loop for a long time, but I feel the point that Pat and others have brought up is a very valid one and needs examining. Guess I have buried myself into a hole in the eyes of some of the purists out there, but oh well ;~) To each his own 'bit' - as long as the horse is happy, and the rider + horse are working as a team. Kmac Karen McCarthyGreat Basin Fjords :: Carson City, Nevada
RE: Bits--mylar and otherwise
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ardeth, For the advanced tests are you suggesting the use of a Kimblewick (or Kimberwick) bit? or a Pelham? If so, I am in total agreement! It certainly parallels the Advanced Western tests...There are some horses that go better packing a bit w/ a bit more heft/bite...some horses are intimidated by it, but rather, they back off enough to create a happy balance, or it is a respect issue (just ask about any stallion owner out there who rides ;~) OR it is that their training is far enough along that a minimum of signal is all that is needed. Or a combination of both. Call it what you will, but for advanced tests a more advanced bit s/b legal. I respect the judges enough as good horsepeople for them to recognize if a horse is going well in either a curb or a snaffle bit, i.e. that simply the use of a stronger bit is not going to mask the symptoms of a horse who does not listen or is not trained properly and folks try to cover the 'holes' w/ it... Kmac in a warm, very un-typical muggy N. Nevada (...is this New Jersey?! Where's spring gone to?? ...Poo-poo on those Global warming naysayers...they need to come out of their air conditioned cubicles and get a real arse warming!) Karen McCarthyGreat Basin Fjords :: Carson City, Nevadahttp://www.picturetrail.com/weegees From: Ardeth Obenauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Bits--mylar and otherwise Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 21:30:43 -0400 This message is from: Ardeth Obenauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm glad the question of why only snaffle bits are allowed for the English riding performance tests at evaluations has come up. It is something my trainer and I have been trying to figure out and have struggled with in our training. Last year at the evaluation in LaCrosse, we posed this question to the members of the evaluation committee and asked why fjords, which are by nature very strong and well muscled horses, are asked to perform tests with only a snaffle bit. The only answer we got was that dressage people had influenced the decision by saying using other bits opened up the possibiity of abuse. We polled other trainers/owners and Wayne Hipsley, the chief evaluator, and all were in agreement that other bits should be allowed--that the bit component of the rules needed to be re-evaluated--especially for the advanced tests. After all, other bits are allowed in driving and the western tests. We were told to put our thoughts in writing, and so my trainer sent a letter to the committee right after we got home, detailing the situation and why she felt there was a need for a change. She never got a response to her letter, the minutes of the committee meeting show no record that it was discussed. I hate to drop it completely, but I don't know how else to approach the topic. Anyone have any ideas? ao Ardeth Obenauf The Lazy AO Farm Shelbyville, TN
Re: Bits--mylar and otherwise
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Altho my dressage days were some years ago, I remember the premise was to get the most from the horse without use of mechanical or painful means. Maybe that is why more controlling bits are out of the question. Also, perhaps Fjords can be more powerful etc, but that should be worked out of them and they should be more free and willing to remain light in the hands. Jean Gayle Author 'The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 to 1949 Send: $20 to Three Horse's Press 7403 Blaine Rd Aberdeen, WA 98520
Re: Bits
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] As for the size of the Glory butterfly, when I talked with Ray Johnson, the maker of the Glory bits, He said that he uses a 5 3/4 for his Morgans! I found that the 5 3/4 Glory butterfly , while the mouthpiece looked like it was plenty big, actually pinched my big Fjord's fleshy lips as the cheeks were loose and sliding..When this would catch his lip he would toss his head. If The Glory bit you were using was pinching his lips with the loose sliding cheeks, that may be the reason your horse came to hate it! When went to a larger mouthpiece, the problem was solved. Just a thought! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where we've had rain and wind, and corrals are a mess! The glory bit I used was a butterfly, and I only ever used that on the snaffle position. It was a 5 and ½ inch, which is what he has always taken, and seemed to be just the right size. I did have the opportunity to ask Larry Poulin about it, and his opinion was that the glory was too much bit for a Fjord, that it was heavy for a horse that tended to lean on you (although while I dont feel like I have great contact yet, I have never felt Elph leaning on me I actually find that every clinician has an opinion about bits, harness, etc., and everything has to be adjust in some way or they havent earned their fee!)
Re: Bits for fjords
This message is from: CHERYL GARNICA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean Thanks for your info...I had the same problem finding a bit with my POA and the low pallet. I came to the conclusion after asking all the POA experts that he just doesn't like ANY bit...but his head ducking quit after taking somone's suggestion..he just hates to be bitted, it is ok once in his mouth..equine dentist and all didn't make difference. I was looking at the Comfort snaffles too...that word comfort..heh heh. I need to go measure his mouth...maybe 5 1/2 is what I need. Confusingthere is a Myler Video on ebay I think I will bid on ...not sure if that will help or confuse me more. There is a Stateline Tack a few miles from me...may just take the $55 plunge. I am a Western Trail toodler..nothing fancy and my guy still has a lot to learn, as do I. I'm finding fjords ARE different in many ways..all GOOD but a bit confusing! Thanks Cheryl Garnica in S. Cal Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: Jean Ernest Many Fjords need a 5 1/2 bit. Also their pallet is low with a large tongue, so a two piece mouthpiece in a snaffle pokes them in their pallet. The Myler bits work great..curved to fit the mouth.. the Myler Comfort snaffle is good, comes in 5 1/2 in Dover and Stateline catalogs. I ordered a 6 Myler with a solid low port mouthpiece and military elbow cheeks for my big gelding, Bjorken, and he is comfortable and responsive in that. I use it with the rein in the first slot below the snaffle setting. The Glory bits are good too..the mouthpiece is a curved solid mouthpiece angled slightly forward. These bits come in Butterfly and Liverpool cheeks for driving (I use the butterfly one for riding) and a dressage approved riding snaffle with Baucher style cheeks. see them at: http://www.glorybits.com/ You generally need a 5 3/4 or larger for the driving styles or the cheeks pinch. Call Ray Johnson to order..he is very interesting to talk to! Bridles! Yes a much larger brow band! I find that the oversize English bridles have a large enough brow band but often the cheeks are too long...Dave Mcwethy can make you a bridle to fit! http://www.horseharness.com/ I hope this helps, Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, cool and smoky this morning..42 degrees! Anyone have suggestions for fjord bits? My guy is broke basically and using a simple O ring snaffle 5. I have been thinking I need a 5 1/4. He has also been ignoring direct rein cues a lot.the arena is away from the other horses and is fixated a fair amount on going back to the gait to try to get a look/smell of the others.even after lunging. Did some reading on the Myler snaffles and wondering if anyone has experience with this. Or, are fjords different with their needs? Any suggestions appreciated.
Re: Bits for Driving and Riding
This message is from: Carol J. Makosky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Milaine Rosslow wrote: This message is from: Milaine Rosslow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I train quite a few Fjords and I've found a great place to find bits of good quality and price. Hi, Took a look see at that site and those are nice prices. I will mark that page for future use if needed. Thanks for the tip. -- Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin
Re: Bits
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] GD (?), I guess I use the older KK bits, the Aurigan, 3 piece. I don't remember it's width but it is a relatively fat one. Tank really liked it when I switched him from the usual 2-piece snaffle. I think it is the copper in it because he always has a very nice wet mouth. BTW, Steve and I first found out about the efficacy of the snaffle from reading Mary Twelveponies, There are no problem horses, only problem riders. His Morgan had been used in the old cheap western curb. It turns out he has a very sensitive mouth. He would run away and do temporal displacements. Switching him to the snaffle allowed us to be kinder to him and also learning to double him when he started to run soon changed his behavior. Doubling can only be done correctly in a snaffle. Again, the right hands are important. Considered a mild bit, even a snaffle can cause pain to a horse when used incorrectly. Mary Twelveponies also has a book called Everyday training: backyard dressage. We have recommended her books to people new to horses for years because they are so common sense and easy to understand. While our book collection has become more sophisticated over the years as hopefully have our equestrian skills, Mary's books started us on the right path. Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.geocities.com/cmadden88011
RE: bits
This message is from: GD [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cynthia, Do you use the older KK or the newer Ultra? I have both in a loose ring from my other horses but have not tried them on the Fjord I'm leasing - he came with an eggbut single broken snaffle. I just took one of my KKs out to the barn to try next time I ride. How thick of one do you use? I have a 16mm and an 18mm. Do you use a loose ring or eggbut? I haven't really played around in Finne's mouth yet to see height of his palate, etc. This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guess it's time I put in a word about the Sprenger KK 3-piece bit I use.
Re: bits
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right on, Cynthia, those rider's hands are s important. Jean G Author The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 46-49 Send $20 to: PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: bits
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Go tohttp://www.saddleshop.com/eng/engset.htmand select Herm/sprenger bits from the menue on ther left. Look through the selection of KK bits and the description and explanations. here is the link for the KK loose ring (if you can make it workit is very long!) http://www.saddleshop.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=actionkey=05-0410refe rence=/cgi-bin/shopper.exe%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3DK0052%26searchstar t%3D0%26template%3DTemplates\SearchResult.html Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, another hot and sunny day..but with smoke from wildfires! I guess it's time I put in a word about the Sprenger KK 3-piece bit I use. It is very good for the shallow palate of a Fjord. Cynthia, do you have a photo of the bit? Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/23/2004 6:46:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I guess it's time I put in a word about the Sprenger KK 3-piece bit I use. It is very good for the shallow palate of a Fjord. Cynthia, do you have a photo of the bit? / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/21/04 8:45:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually a broken mouth (2 piece) snaffle is MORE severe than a solid mouth bit , mullen or low port. The single joint pokes them in the roof of the mouth or roles over to poke down into the tongue..and the shape of the bit doesn't permit room for the tongue to move and the horse to swallow. So they fight it and lug on it. Interesting thing: while the Glory bits work fine for my Fjords, when I went to a Myler with the solid low wide port mouth, elbow cheeks, Bjorken no longer curles up BEHIND the bit like he would do with the Glory or mullen mouth pelham on occasions. the shape of the mouthpiece permits him to swallow. i am finding the bit discussion interesting and also confusing, being still a beginner to fjords. when i got oz he was ridden in a jointed, loose ring snaffle. my instructor said the loose rings would pinch, so i started looking at other options. i found a french link eggbutt, and tried that. then she said that it was pulling into the interdental space, which was not good. so i found a full cheek jointed snaffle, being assured by her that it wouldn't poke him in the mouth where the joint is..now it sounds like it does. help! she uses a bit on her horses, that i learned to ride with, that looks very similar in design to the glory bit i looked at on the website. i can't find one any larger than a 5 inch, however. she even has a style of rein that splits at the end of each rein and can therefore apply the bit as either a snaffle or leverage, depending on which way you apply the reins. i assume the butterfly would work somewhat similar. one reason i am asking is that i find oz has a tendency to put his head low, and i hate to be always nagging him to get back more on his haunches. i am wondering if this bit would be helpful for this. it sounds like he could be lugging the bit, or at least leaning on it. i really want to do right by this boy, since he is such a great horse. any input would be greatly appreciated laurie central minnesota
Re: Bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I like the simpler Myler bits I've looked at, although I don't personally own any. They seem to be well shaped and nicely made. It is hard to find them in mouthpiece sizes larger than 5.5. Big Horse Feed and Farm Supply, as Jean Ernest mentioned, is the one place I've found that does carry bits with larger mouthpieces. I have been a little put off by the increasingly severe gadget-y bits and headpieces that the Myler people are advertising lately in the Western Horseman and similar magazines. It's hard for me to believe that the Myler people sincerely believe those wire and hard rope nosepieces, gag bits, etc. are good things to put on a horse's head. My guess is they are being driven to sell their products to people who think a more severe or complicated bit will solve their horse's handling problems. If so, it's too bad -- it's a turn off to me. I find myself less likely to buy a Myler bit, even a nice, simple snaffle or mullen mouth, for this reason. Briget wrote that a french link bit and a dr. bristol bit are 3 piece snaffles. That is true, but the dr. bristol is not the same as a french link -- it can be much more severe, depending on how it is installed on the bridle. A french link has a short rounded peanut shaped center link that lies flat on the horse's tongue. The center link of a dr. bristol is long, flat and thin and can be set to lie at an angle on the horse's tongue. Jessica Jahiel of Horse Sense writes a lot about the difference. You can read more in the archives at http://www.horse-sense.org/ Jessica has a specific article about the differences between dr. bristol and french link bits at http://www.horse-sense.org/archives/brisfren.htm The other interesting thing she mentions in this article is that a correctly fitting snaffle bit should have a quarter inch of mouthpiece visible on either side of the horse's mouth. DeeAnna
Re: Bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/21/2004 6:24:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Briget wrote that a french link bit and a dr. bristol bit are 3 piece snaffles. That is true, but the dr. bristol is not the same as a french link DeeAnna, thanks for the link to the double-joint snaffle article. Unfortunately, now I'm more confused ;-) Jessica says that the bit can be fitted different ways, but from what I understand there's only one way to fit it, so the overall curve fits the shape of the mouth. Also, her descriptions of the center links sound very similar. I'll go to the barn today and have a look at mine! / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
Re: bits
This message is from: Warren Stockwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about anyone with successful western bit choices?? Don't you need to have a shank in WSCA ring?? I am new to this so I am not sure. I think and wish you could show in whatever works well for your horse. Roberta - Original Message - From: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FH-L fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: RE: bits This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use a KK three piece bit on Tank for riding. I like this better than a two-piece snaffle. He likes it too and it is good for a Fjord's low palate. For driving, I use a mullen liverpool for driving. Tank appears to like this bit also. = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (messages received on Saturday or Sunday can not be responded to until Monday)
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/25/2003 6:14:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A word of caution tho for anyone following this thread, if you have been using a stronger bit, like a Kimberwicke, and switch to a FL, your horse may not respect the FL and run right thru it. Like any new piece of equipment, work on the longeline or from the ground first to gauge the response. *** Good advice, Paula. Even better, train your horse to respond appropriately to the bit. I use the clicker, although it can also be taught without. I sit on the horse's back and pick up a rein. When his nose touches my knee, he gets a click and a treat. Common responses are for the horse to not move his head, or pull the other way. Don't pull harder -- instead make sure they see the treat in the appropriate hand. Chances are they will turn around to eat it. Soon they will understand the game and start offering their head to either side. Great for unlocking those drafty Fjord necks ;-) / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
RE: bits
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use a KK three piece bit on Tank for riding. I like this better than a two-piece snaffle. He likes it too and it is good for a Fjord's low palate. For driving, I use a mullen liverpool for driving. Tank appears to like this bit also. = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] (messages received on Saturday or Sunday can not be responded to until Monday)
Re: bits
This message is from: M Korose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone asked about bits. I have a box o' bits from previous Throughbreds, we only use fat snaffles for riding and draft and butterfly mullen mouths for driving. SO one of these days I will have a bit sale.. Marsha in VA
Re: bits
This message is from: jgayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean, I have some used Kimberwicks in my collection, English made. Nickle. one 5 1/2 and one just short of 4 1/2 may have more. I believe the small one is never rust. Jean Jean Walters Gayle Aberdeen, WA Author:The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946-49 $20 PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/22/2003 6:06:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just curious what type of English style bits are being used by Fjord owners for training - showing - trail-riding??? I have quite a collection of Fjord-size bits. In fact, I've been meaning to sell them. I put together a nice web page, then my computer ate it :-/ I settled on the medium thickness 3-part (called dog bone, french link, etc.) bit with a large D-ring or full-cheek. Seems to create the most comfort in the mouth, most responsiveness, and least resistance. The large cheek piece keeps the bit where it should be in the mouth. Small rings seem to get lost in those fat Fjord lips. Loose rings sometimes pinch. / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
Re: bits
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] My dressage instructor/trainer, who spent the last couple years back East training warmblood youngsters, had me use the KK 3 piece loose ring snaffle, with a thick mouthpiece, a VERY soft bit, to start my young mare. later I will go to the mullen mouth GLORY butterfly bit with a solid curved mouthpiece, which seems so work well for all my Fjords. I also have the Glory riding bit which is like a Baucher but with the same solid mouthpiece that the Glory butterfy and the Glory liverpool, and the riding bit is dressage legal. Many Fjords have low pallets and thick tongues with little room for a thick bit or high port, and the two piece jointed mouthpiece will poke them in the roof of the mouth. I have also found that the Myler bits, certain mouthpieces, work very well with the Fjords as they are curved to fit the shape of the mouth better. I am currently using a Myler elbow bit with the solid low wide port mouthpiece on my big gelding. I would like to get this same mouthpiece in a kimberwick or Pelam or buterfly cheek. Quite expensive, tho. I like a bit that allows you to use the snaffle setting (no leverage) or the curb setting, as the elbow, butterfly, liverpool, pelham and Uxeter Kimberwick do. That gives you an option. To sum it up, most Fjords do best in a low port, mullen or three piece mouthpiece and the Glory and Myler bits are especially nice. Of course the Glory bits, Mylers and KK bits are all fairly expensive. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, a beautiful, clear day, will be sunny but cool, upper 40's. I can see the Alaska range 100+ miles to the south! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/22/2003 10:34:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ChampionPonies writes: a simple Uxeter Kimberwicke We have gone to using a low port mouth Kimberwick on all our horses for both riding and driving due to the fact that a few of them really showed a strong dislike for a jointed mouth; fighting the bit open mouthed and constantly getting a tongue over it even with the bit snugged up to almost too high in the mouth. A Kimberwick is nice because it can be used as a snaffle (as in - no leverage at all) or with a very slight leverage (an inch or less). Only problem I've found is that some places (shows, etc.) do not consider them a true snaffle (yet, they wont call them a curb bit either)- if snaffles are required by the rules, and sometimes they say they are OK for driving but not riding, and other places say the opposite. Here's one of those spots where I say why can't we just use whatever the horse likes and call it good? Ah well... I got to go out trail riding with friends this weekend. I thought it was quite humorous that my little 14.2 fjord was out walking all their horses (2 QHs 1 TB). That'll teach them to laugh (all in good fun) at my pony with a mohawk won't it? Amy
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just curious what type of English style bits are being used by Fjord owners for training - showing - trail-riding??? In our experience, different occasions seem to call for different bits...Just wondering what has been successful (or not) for all of you...thanks for the input! I started both of my Fjords in jointed rubber D's, then moved on to jointed copper and steel roller D's. I find they are both nice and light in the bridle with that bit, and they like to play with the rollers. And, so far there hasn't been an occasion where it hasn't been plenty of bit. For already heavy Fjords, or those that tend to pull when they get excited, I've found that a simple Uxeter Kimberwicke (or probably any leverage bit - I've heard good things about the butterfly bits) can work to soften them. I personally prefer the jointed to non. Jamie In the Mountains SW of Denver, CO
Re: bits for Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/11/2002 7:07:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also use a KK on Tank for riding and he is very happy with it. It gives him a nice mouth, before I used a regular snaffle and I know he likes the KK better. Expensive but worth it. I use a mullen liverpool on him for driving. Fjords. The horses with expensive taste! Someday maybe I'll get a cart and take some lessons, after Juniper is refreshed in the art of driving by a pro. I still have a mullen mouth in the tackroom, and probably it is what she also needs for driving. Pamela
RE: bits for Fjords
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] I also use a KK on Tank for riding and he is very happy with it. It gives him a nice mouth, before I used a regular snaffle and I know he likes the KK better. Expensive but worth it. I use a mullen liverpool on him for driving. = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: bits for Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Sheri- A riding friend recommended a French link or dog bone snaffle as mild and clearly communicative. I use it and like it a lot. It's supposed to relieve the nutcracker action of a regular jointed snaffle. This may be a good choice for fun trail riding, especially since your boy is not problematic. Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Re: bits for Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/10/2002 5:22:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . I have been happy with this but I am wondering what other types of bits people are using for general trail riding and fun riding. I dont have trouble with him spooking, and he is pretty darn good at stopping. When I bought Juniper I was told she liked a mullen mouth. I didn't find her liking that very well at all. She was going fine in a regular D-ring snaffle. But during my dressage lessons I found her a LOT heavier on the right rein, she'd set her jaw against me. My trainer had me borrow her KK jointed bit and she softened s nicely and started giving to me, and raising her back and tucking her nose down, instead of flying around with it in the air. Of course, it was an expensive bit.sigh. pretty close to $100.00. But she loves it. Pamela
Re: bits
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anke you surely have a great time with that horse of yours. Looks like you try to keep him happy. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 PO Box 104 Montesano, Wa 98563
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A'simi don't like normal bits ... so I use normally a leather bit or the bosal for shows. Without bit he is very satisfied and will (nearly) do what I want him to do. In the beginning I tried with an english snaffle, than with a western bit with shanks. For lessons I use a snaffle without shanks - and I think I never will test a bit with shanks anymore. The last time I've done it he put is mouth to his breast and begins racing and bucking - no, I didn't have the reins short ... I think bits are a very individually thing for each horse.
Re: bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/21/2001 10:43:43 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but I ride western with an English bridle with a kimberwick bit. Ok everyone laugh at that one. I just have not found a Western bridle that I like and this gets me down the road just fine. Carol, please educate me. My landlady rides English Park with a western bit, Tom Thumb, because she doesn't like English bits. She's a little dingy so it won't help me to ask her the difference. Gail in Tucson
Re: bits
This message is from: Denise's [EMAIL PROTECTED] litsters, big bits can be found through libertyville and occasionally through chicks. they are both on the web and have paper catalogues to send. they will special order. denise . This message is from: Bonnie Liermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Hi List: .. Where do you find western bits wide enough for Fjords? .
Re: bits
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bonnie I have seen western and english bits for sale on the ebay auction. www.ebay.com Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes Noble Book Stores
Re: bits/heavy hands
This message is from: John and Martie Bolinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am also guilty of heavy hands. My first horse was a very heavy mouthed ex riding stable hack and runaway and taught me to ride with a long shank pelham; ride on the snaffle until you need the curb. My most recent riding horse, also not a Fjord used to give me a heavy head shaking every time I rode; he would pull with the snaffle, put his head down and shake his head/neck so hard I thought he would throw me. Turns out he had a really bad mouth, so bad that I had to go to a hackamore. Nor THAT taught me not to be so heavy on the reins! Just a little pull up on the reins an he responds. Too much and back to the head down, shake. but so long as I stay off his nose he responds well to a light touch. Then I get into the cart with my Fjord, Kilar, and back we go to square one. He pulls, I pull harder. He pulls harder yet, I pull harder. We go faster. I finally realize I am hanging on his mouth and give him his head. He stumbles. He eases up. I ease up. We slow down. WHY can't I just remember this every time I dri ve!! It is OK when I have my instructor in the cart. She slaps my hands when she sees it. I can't seem to figure it out for myself until the poor horse is pulling. And I don't want to ruin him by doing this. Luckily he is very forgiving. And NOT a runaway. He seems to think this is some kind of game of tug of war. Well, I'll keep practicing. When we drive together a lot, it gets easier. Then I take of (for the winter this time) and we start over. Fjords are so nice. Debby Stai wrote: This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would agree with this, if you have heavy hands then a harsher bit will not help, except! I do have an Arab that would get nervous on the trail, and when we'd trot or canter, he would be hard to stop, especially if he thought he was being left behind. In the arena he is very quiet but comes to life on the trail. I
Re: bits/heavy hands
This message is from: Debby Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would agree with this, if you have heavy hands then a harsher bit will not help, except! I do have an Arab that would get nervous on the trail, and when we'd trot or canter, he would be hard to stop, especially if he thought he was being left behind. In the arena he is very quiet but comes to life on the trail. I borrowed and have since bought a D-ring rubber lowport with a curb chain. The advantage was that I didn't have to hold on to him anymore. If he decided to take off or not stop, the ever so lightest touch on my reins and he came down. No pulling. I could ride with a relaxed rein. He understood this and so did I. It worked for us and I'm considering using it when I drive Amber cross country. Sometimes knowing you have a bit that works will help you both relax. Have a great day. Debby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 3/6/00 9:06:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is probably a stupid question,but here goes. If there is 100% info on bits,I know 5%.I am wondering if there is a traditional or common bit used for riding Fjords.I have been using a Eggbutt snaffle,but don't feel that I have the best control that I could.I am trail riding only and have heavy hands.I would welcome any suggestions. Thanks,Ellen Hi Ellen- First, as I'm sure everyone else will remind you, there's no such thing as a stupid question. I've only owned Fjords one year and believe me, I still have many questions! Despite my lack of experience, I'm opinionated on bits. Heavy hands is a problem I'm also getting over. It has taken many successful rides for me to relax my death grip and start gently guiding my horses with legs and a little rein. Because of this problem, I have fanatically stuck with mild snaffles. Remember, the bit or other equipment is only as good as the hands that hold it. A pro can use (almost) any bit she likes without hurting the horse. However, it's too easy for a non-pro to get into the severe bit syndrome, that is, buying harsher and harsher bits as the horse fails to respond to each one. The eggbutt snaffle is a favorite, provided it's smooth (not twisted) and broken in the middle. No, you won't have a lot of control with this bit, but what is control really? Is it a painful emergency brake in the form of a piece of metal in the horse's mouth? No. It's the partnership between you and your horse, the respect and trust he has for you. The types of bits I use are (help me out here, bit experts) a D-ring snaffle w/copper inlay, and an eggbutt snaffle with copper rollers. My horses take these bits readily and carry them in a relaxed manner. Ellen, have you visited the clicker training web site? If not, here's the link... A HREF=http://www.angelfire.com/az/clickryder/home.html;ClickRyder --Clicker Training for Horses, Mules, Donkeys/A . Good info on fun, easy training you can do by yourself. For me anyway, the clicker is my emergency brake. Hope this helps, Brigid
Re: bits and carts/wagons
This message is from: Steve McIlree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julie-- Saturday, February 05, 2000, you wrote: I think it also helps if the driver is sitting up high enough to have a good view, and the easy entry type cart is fairly low due to small wheels. We are ordering 34 wheels from Milton for ours, which will help. I think you'll be delighted with the new wheels. Since I've installed mine, I now sit high enough to see clearly while driving my 14.2hh Morgan. They also roll so much smoother that the horse has a much easier time maneuvering the cart. One thing I do notice is that the pneumatic tires on the old wheels absorbed alot of the rough ride that now makes it to the seat. Also, be aware that the nice easy entry space in front of the seat will now be pretty much blocked by the wheels. But all-in-all I really love the new wheels. I had so much fun this weekend driving out in the woods, that I'm sending Paul another note of thanks. -- Steve McIlree -- Pferd Skipper -- Omaha, Nebraska, USA Then we began to ride. My soul smoothed itself out, a long-cramped scroll freshening and fluttering in the wind. --Robert Browning(1812-1889)
Re: bits, blinders/blinkers and behaviour
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sue and Gayle .. thank you both for super stories! I have a quick question for you experienced drivers out there .. After I underwent my transformation at the Parelli Clinic, I came home and decided to try driving Soleia without blinders/blinkers? don't know what is the proper term .. and in her regular riding bridle, with a simple jointed snaffle bit .. I've been out three times with this setup and notice that a) she spends more time looking back at me and I have to work to keep her head straight b) she pulls much more - I have to really hang on to her sometimes, whereas with the Kimberwick I had to keep only the lightest contact (I hope) and c) she has been getting progressively more difficult .. ie attempting to turn back, and yesterday .. serious bucking at the start .. I just kept her moving and we covered a lot of ground in short order ..after which she was much more amenable. Now Soleia has bucked under saddle in the past, but I've been out driving almost daily over the last three months and have only experienced one or two half hearted little bucks in harness .. yesterday was fairly protracted and I had to really assert myself .. So .. the obvious thing I guess, is that the bit is not right and she needs the blinders? right? Maybe when I've advanced through more of the Parelli stuff on the ground I can give her more freedom when driving? OR .. could it be the cupful of sweet feed I've been giving her the last couple of weeks .. until now I have not fed her any grain --- I know some of you feed grain, others don't.
Re: bits, blinders/blinkers and behaviour
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Cheryl, Boy, I bet there will be a lot of discussion from your post! First thing, I think that the jointed snaffle often is not the preferred bits for Fjords: a solid mouthpiece as in the kimberwick is kinder, doesn't poke into their tongue or pallet and the loose ring of the snaffle (Parelli snaffle? I have one and my fjords don't like it) could also be catching her lip and pinching! And causing the bucking, etc. And as for blinders, the looking back at you, seeing the cart wheels turning, etc. could be causing problems. Lots of discussion of blinder/no blinders on the CD-L. Check the Archives. Now a question: If you were happily driving her with blinders and the Kimberwick with no problems before, why try to change? Why fix' it if it ain't broke? (Did the Parelli gurus make you feel quilty for using normal methods? LOL) OK, I'll step back and let the discussion begin! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska -2 degrees this morning and just getting light at 8:42 am. Winter is here! I have a quick question for you experienced drivers out there .. After I underwent my transformation at the Parelli Clinic, I came home and decided to try driving Soleia without blinders/blinkers? don't know what is the proper term .. and in her regular riding bridle, with a simple jointed snaffle bit .. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bits and collars
This message is from: Sam Sue Banks [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have also used a Butterfly cheek Glory bit on Freya (Solar x Zigina) for riding and driving, and she does better in that bit than a snaffle. Freya has a very thick tongue, when you part her lips, all you see is tongue. For my horse, the Glory bit still squished her tongue over the bars. I attended a Myler's bit clinic at a dressage barn and talked with Dale Myler about this problem, and showed him the Glory bit as well as a Sprenger driving bit. At the two day clinic, I borrowed several styles to try on Freya at home that Myler had suggested, and returned the next day. The best suggestion was the number 36 mouthpiece, forward tilt ported barrel, and since you can choose what style cheeks you get when custom ordering, I got Kimberwick cheeks with extra width to fit my driving bridle and to use a leather curb strap so that it would be suitable for driving and riding, but this mouthpiece is not dressage legal. I have used it about 6 weeks and it has been great for Freya. The barrel in the center of the port allows each rein to work independently like a snaffle, but the barrel prevents the mouthpiece from collapsing and pinching the tongue like a broken snaffle. According to Myler, this bit gives a lot of tongue relief but if the horse raises its head, it will put downward pressure on the bars encouraging the horse to return its head to the proper position. Myler explained that they want the bits to reward the horses without the rider having to be active in the process. They recommend you ride with your hands and reins in the proper position, and keep them quiet and still during the process of the horse figuring out where the comfort zone is for the bit. The Myler bits are expensive if getting a custom made bit although some styles are available in stock with Toklat dealers. We have two tack shops here that allow you to try stock styles. Of course, Fjords need bigger mouths, you might have to custom order your bit in some styles like me. The dealers around here are knowledgeable in helping you choose a style mouthpiece, but you can also talk to the Mylers directly to get help. I drove Freya recently at a fun day CDE style event, and I had several people ask about her bit because it looked handsome, and one person commented that Freya looked very relaxed. She was TOO relaxed, but when the small pony four in hand turned and came towards her, she didn't flinch, just looked at them like how rude! Overall, Freya came in second for the day, I think. Collars - Thanks for tips on how to measure. I'd also like to hear more about using collars. The dressage judge at my fun day said Freya looked restricted in her movement. I know Freya has chiropractic problems with her neck-withers area, and was wondering if a collar instead of a breast collar would be easier on her. Sue Banks Mattaponi, Virginia
Re: bits
This message is from: Carl and Sarah Nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] one thing I learned is to not use a so-called 'colt' bit, or Tom Thumb bit. A waste of time. Spend more time in the snaffle and hackamore. I found this to be very true. One of the bits we tried was a Tom Thumb after my trainer rode Lara with this bit for less than 5 minutes, she declared waste of time. I haven't even been able to give it away! ha ha. We are pursuing training Lara at this time with a hackamore, and I'm researching and may be ordering a Glory Butterfly bit. I would like to thank all of you for responding and sharing your experiences, advice and thoughts in answer to my questions. I really appreciate it. Sarah Nagel having fun learning in chilly, sunny Northern Idaho
Re: bits LTJ and more
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] I recommend looking into Linda Tellington-Jones methods of ground training. We have used it quite successfully with Tank who was not halter broken when we bought him. The wand is very good for teaching a Fjord to mind his pace and your space. Cynthia, I really think this is one of the best ways to halter break ANYTHING, especially a fjord !!! One reason it works so well, is that they learn without pressure and resistance, which as all of you know all too well, is the 'fjord thing' they seem to base their existance on! They really lock - on to the wand, (butt end of the dressage whip), and eventually transfer their attention to your body movement and voice commands. Someone mentioned the teeter-totter awhile back. I combine this, as well as walk over logs, plastic tarps, (essentially anything SAFE that a horse can be around, but that is not in his usual context of day-to-day stuff),along with the LTJ wand style of training. I start them right after they are weaned. Two years in a row now, my weanling fillies have won the 2 and under leadline trail class at Turlock. Right now,I have 5 weaners in my care: 3 fjords,1 Mongolian/Hucol cross colt and a arab filly.(Only one of the fjords is mine.)My friend , and ancient wise cowboy that he is, Bruce, is helping me out allot with these guys. He's introduced rope training as well, gently roping each foot,neck or mid-section and taking and releasing it. Boy, are they easier to trim now! Another thing he does, is rope an object and draw it towards the colt or filly. He does this very quietly and slowly until they learn to watch it come up to them. We figure we may have a good rope horse one day... I have also used the LTJ method to re-school spoiled horses, and with some of these guys,the stud chain IS put on the halter, and the butt-end of the dressage whip DOES come into play, until they learn that not running over you is the RIGHT thing to do. Happy fjording, Karen __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/7/99 7:08:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does this 'ear' bridle have a chin strap? Hi Mary- Thanks for the tip. Yes, I bought a chin strap separate for the bridle. Brigid in CA
Re: Bits
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi- I ended up getting a 5 1/2 loose ring snaffle and an ear bridle. Does this 'ear' bridle have a chin strap? I would be very leary of using a single ear headstall with a snaffle bit if it has no chin strap. These ear style headstalls are meant for use with what are called leverage bits - bits with various kinds of shanks on them - not for use with a snaffle bit where the leverage (strength, if you will) is exerted by the rider pulling on the reins. With no chin strap you could pull the whole bridle right off over the horse's ears in the right situation. With a shank style bit you would - or at least, should - never have to pull hard enough to pull the headstall off, plus the action of the bit exerts pressure on the curb chain or strap not on the headstall. When you pull on a snaffle bit, you are also pulling on the headstall because of the way the reins and headstall are attached to the bit through the same ring. Be safe. Mary This arrangement works beautifully and looks nice. Those Fjord heads are not easy to fit to standard size tack : ) Brigid in CA === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi- I ended up getting a 5 1/2 loose ring snaffle and an ear bridle. This arrangement works beautifully and looks nice. Those Fjord heads are not easy to fit to standard size tack : ) Brigid in CA
Re: Bits
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] These suppliers offer a good selection of snaffle bits, both loose rings and egg butt. They come in regular steel, or German silver (expensive). They will ask you how thick you want the bit to be, and something between 14-19mm seems to fit well, better than a real thick snaffle. They are Dressage Extensions: 800-541-3708, Miller's Catalog: 800-553-7655 and State Line Tack: 800-228-9208. Good Luck, Elaine Olsen
Re: Bits
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 07:56 PM 6/5/99 EDT, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Everyone, Where do you all get your bits? Ike wheres a 5 1/2 snaffle (dont know what kind), and we cant find one anywhere here . Libertyville Saddle shop has the best selection of 5 1/2 bits, mostly English, snaffles especially., but also have several oversize western curb bits in their western catalog. Their phone is 1-800-872-3353, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] They also have oversize english bridles. Western tack is a problem, tho. It's hard to find western bridles big enough. Myler bit Co. will make any of their bits in a 5 1/2 size I think, but they're spendy. 1-800-354-3613 However in Dover Saddlery's latest catalog I see they have some Myler bits at a more reasonable price, in 5 1/2 size. There are some full cheek Mylers in 5 1/2. Dover also has a a number of 5 1/2 english type bits, snaffles and pelhams. 1-800-989-1500 Jean In Fairbanks, Alaska, sunny and near 70 degrees today (finally!) Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bits...
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi! Just a question: I´m not familiar with some of the the bit-types that has been discussed, and since there have been many very good messages about bitting it would be intresting to know how these bits look, to understand the articles fully. So - do anyone know of a web site with pics of Tom Thumb and Glory Butterfly bits? Here in Sweden, all dressage classes at easy level MUST be ridden on a snaffle, so most people therefore train with snaffles. I use a 3-piece stainless steel snaffle for my mare, which works very good. My young gelding has a jointed snaffle made from argentan, a silver/copper/steel-mix. For jumping, hunts and trail rides a bit called Pessoa bit is very popular. It looks like a jointed snaffle but has small rings over and under the ordinary snaffle-ring. One fasten the reins either in the snaffle ring or in one of the small rings under the snaffle ring. It normally doesn´t have a curbchain/strap, but some people use it. I myself use such a bit on my mare when riding in the fields or jousting. I´ve tried to make a drawing of it: o o O-o-O o o o o (but i guess it will get strange...) Sometimes an English Pelham is used for jumping, hunting etc, but it has gone less usual since the break-through of the Pessoa-bit. Another bit I use is a mild hackamore with shorts shanks. Sometimes when it´s darn cold I feel that this might be better for my horse than a metal bit. Regards Anneli
