Training and driving books
This message is from: David MCWethy <4nh...@gmail.com> We are moving once again, this time into Seattle for grandchild proximity. Some books have got to go. Perhaps they will interest some of you. I am pricing based on Amazon and half.com, and will charge a bit less, plus their $3.99 each for shipping, less if more than one book to a destination. Whatever I don't sell will go on those sites. The Essential Guide to Carriage Driving. Robyn Cuffey and our own Jaye-Allison. In the harness business I sold many of these. This one is left over, and in like new condition. It is the one book, if only one worth owning about carriage driving. $20 The Hungarian Driving Style. By Felsodriethoma. From original published in 1931. 1983. Foreword by Prince Phillip. Very good condition only with small damage on dust cover. $22 The most sought after... Takes things a far step beyond Jay-Allison's book,and will impress friends! The Art of Driving. Max Pape. Intro by Prince Phillip. Like new. $135 Horse Training in Hand, A Modern Guide to Working from the Ground. Scuthof-Lesmeister and Mistral. 2009. Very good. New, $31.95. Price. 22.00 Think Harmony With Horses. Ray Hunt. Like new. $11. True Horsemanship Through Feel. Bill Dorrance. Like new. $30 new. $18. Dave Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Clicker Training?
This message is from: Tiffany Amschl Hi Everyone - About a year ago, someone in the Midwest posted about a clicker training seminar for horses in Illinois. I intended to save the info for future reference, but of course, I can't find it now. I think it was this list, but not entirely sure, so my apologies if this is just clogging up your inbox! If any has recollection of the info - or any info on clicker training seminars in the Midwest - please contact me off list. Thanks! Tiffany in IL Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: training or disposition?
This message is from: Gail Russell The free up feeder looks easier to close, but I think I like the Hay Hoop better than that one. I love my barrels because I can just throw a whole bunch of hay into the feeder and am done feeding very quickly. The barrels can be cut in half (to make two big tubes, instead of one longer one), and would likely be big enough for most people's needs. However, you would not have the stiffening power of both the top and bottom rims, which could be a problem. There is also a slow feeder sold by Happy Grazer. It attaches nets to the top of a large trough. The nets have a purse string top that you close over the hay you have installed. The biggest one takes two bales of hay. The nets are bigger openings (1 1/2", I think), and the netting is thin. It appears to be the strongest net of all I am aware of. The larger size may not be a problem. "Presentation" is everything in hay nets. Hanging, as filled bags, the horses can throw them around to get fines out. If hay is wet, they can pull hay out faster because it is a little like pulling a thread on a knit garmentthe first string draws the next ones out. I think the Happy Grazer may be pretty slow feed, despite the large hole size, because the horse has to reach down through the net to get the hay, and cannot rely on gravity to press the hay up against the holes for him, as occurs with a hanging net. The cinch chix netting is heavy material, which I think slows them down. The Happy Grazer is thin material. It is used for shark protective cages, I believe. The Happy Grazer Replacement net is $210. You could buy it and build your own feeder out of a large plastic water tank, or even out of wood. There is one big, big advantage to the Happy Grazer. That is that you are truly protected from sand colic. With my feeders, the horses throw the feeders around, and, often they manage to get the fines into the dirt outside of the Rubbermaid tub. I have yet to try tying the bottom of the net to rope that is threaded through the water tank's drain hole and then tied to something like a tennis ball just outside the feeder. This would keep them from swinging the net around as much. Note also, that the Happy Grazer Replacement net comes in a 1 1/4 inch size that SHRINKS. It might be small enough for a Fjord! I own one of the Grazers that is a plastic bucket with a piece of plastic that goes over the hay, with large holes. My Fjord has destroyed the holes. The manufacturer says it is because I did not fold the flake of hay into the feeder just right, and he had to get too aggressive. I think that is way too much work. As I talk, I am considering that I might want to try one of the Happy Grazer Replacement nets and build my own box. They ship the plastic part by Greyhound, and it does get expensive. http://shop.happygrazers.com/NEW-Higher-Quality-Replacement-Net-for-X-slow-feed-mesh-11-4-412012002.htm Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: training or disposition?
This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com What about the "Free Up"feeder with the metal frame on the top? But your barrel idea sounds likeit would be cheaper. Jean in hot and smoky Alaska > Cinch Chix 1 inch netting. I use their West Coast Large Bale feeders and cut > them > in half (to make two shorter nets, with a screw on carabiner type thing > closing the > bottom of the net. I put the open top of the net over the end of a white 35 > gallon > barrel, pulling it up like a sock over a foot, but only about 4 to 6 inches > up. My > husband has taken off the tops and bottoms of the barrel (leaving the rim to > strengthen it) before I do this, and he has also drilled 3/8 inch holes in > two rows > about that I use to tie the netting to the barrel. I end up with an open > topped > barrel with a net "sock" hanging about 2 1/2 to three feet down below the > bottom of > the barrel. We hang this on a pipe panel and put a largish water trough > (Rubbermaid, about $75) beneath. We throw a day's ration into the top and > let them > have at it. They do most of their eating by shaking the nets until the fines > fall > out. > > There is something called a Hay Hoop you can buy from KV Supply. They are > not as > easy to load, and you need a stall wall to mount them on (or a barn wall). > They > come with a larger hole net, so not as slow feeding, but Cinch Chix nets > would fit > on them. They are a pretty good solution. > > Gail > > > From: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com [owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com] > On > Behalf Of Theresa Christiansen [t...@littlerockfarm.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:50 AM > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Re: training or disposition? > > This message is from: Theresa Christiansen > > > What brand of slow feeders do you use? > > Theresa Christiansen > Little Rock Farm > 425 788 2358 > 206 972 7222 cell > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: training or disposition?
This message is from: Theresa Christiansen Thanks so much! Theresa On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Gail Russell wrote: > This message is from: Gail Russell > > > Cinch Chix 1 inch netting. I use their West Coast Large Bale feeders and > cut them in half (to make two shorter nets, with a screw on carabiner type > thing closing the bottom of the net. I put the open top of the net over > the end of a white 35 gallon barrel, pulling it up like a sock over a foot, > but only about 4 to 6 inches up. My husband has taken off the tops and > bottoms of the barrel (leaving the rim to strengthen it) before I do this, > and he has also drilled 3/8 inch holes in two rows about that I use to tie > the netting to the barrel. I end up with an open topped barrel with a net > "sock" hanging about 2 1/2 to three feet down below the bottom of the > barrel. We hang this on a pipe panel and put a largish water trough > (Rubbermaid, about $75) beneath. We throw a day's ration into the top and > let them have at it. They do most of their eating by shaking the nets > until the fines fall out. > > There is something called a Hay Hoop you can buy from KV Supply. They are > not as easy to load, and you need a stall wall to mount them on (or a barn > wall). They come with a larger hole net, so not as slow feeding, but Cinch > Chix nets would fit on them. They are a pretty good solution. > > Gail > > > From: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com [ > owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Christiansen [ > t...@littlerockfarm.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:50 AM > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Re: training or disposition? > > This message is from: Theresa Christiansen > > > What brand of slow feeders do you use? > > Theresa Christiansen > Little Rock Farm > 425 788 2358 > 206 972 7222 cell > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l > > > -- Theresa Christiansen Little Rock Farm 425 788 2358 206 972 7222 cell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: training or disposition?
This message is from: Gail Russell Cinch Chix 1 inch netting. I use their West Coast Large Bale feeders and cut them in half (to make two shorter nets, with a screw on carabiner type thing closing the bottom of the net. I put the open top of the net over the end of a white 35 gallon barrel, pulling it up like a sock over a foot, but only about 4 to 6 inches up. My husband has taken off the tops and bottoms of the barrel (leaving the rim to strengthen it) before I do this, and he has also drilled 3/8 inch holes in two rows about that I use to tie the netting to the barrel. I end up with an open topped barrel with a net "sock" hanging about 2 1/2 to three feet down below the bottom of the barrel. We hang this on a pipe panel and put a largish water trough (Rubbermaid, about $75) beneath. We throw a day's ration into the top and let them have at it. They do most of their eating by shaking the nets until the fines fall out. There is something called a Hay Hoop you can buy from KV Supply. They are not as easy to load, and you need a stall wall to mount them on (or a barn wall). They come with a larger hole net, so not as slow feeding, but Cinch Chix nets would fit on them. They are a pretty good solution. Gail From: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com [owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Christiansen [t...@littlerockfarm.com] Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:50 AM To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: training or disposition? This message is from: Theresa Christiansen What brand of slow feeders do you use? Theresa Christiansen Little Rock Farm 425 788 2358 206 972 7222 cell Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: training or disposition?
This message is from: Theresa Christiansen What brand of slow feeders do you use? Theresa Christiansen Little Rock Farm 425 788 2358 206 972 7222 cell Sent from my iPad On Jun 27, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Gail Russell wrote: > This message is from: Gail Russell > > > This article came through from my clicker list. > http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32101/study-food-rewards-can-improve-horse-training > > I have also realized that how I feed makes a big difference in the horse I > have to train. And it is not just cutting back on "hot" foods that makes a > difference. Since I started feeding with extreme slow feed nets, where the > horses eat pretty much nonstop overnight from 4PM to 4 to 6 AM, the horses > are much more relaxed, willing and attentive. It is almost like I have a > different horse. > > It think it is because they are not feeling desperate about food, and my also > not be suffering from ulcers. I have yet to analyze whether or not this has > improved my cinchy geldings attitude toward the cinch. I have just recently > realized (with some help from this list) that his problem may be chronic low > grade ulcers that cause pain as he is being cinched up. > > Off to put up slow feeders in Cedarville. We just hauled horses from Sonoma > County to Cedarville CA and have to get ready for the coming heat wave. I am > worrying about impactions if I do not manage their feed properly since we > have moved them to a much dryer climate and slightly different hay. > > Gail > > > From: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com [owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com] > On Behalf Of Patricia Pasqual [tishpasq...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:40 AM > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: training or disposition? > > This message is from: Patricia Pasqual > > > I think that some horses are more "forgiving" than others - if a novice > uses a cue that is somewhat in the range of the cue the horse knows, these > schoolmasters "get it" and obediantly perform the task. There are other > horses, however, that will never be schoolmasters because their range for > understanding a cue is much less forgiving. I don't believe that is > training - my horse has every "button" trained there is, but he is fussy > about how you ask. If you don't ask correctly, you probably aren't going to > get what you are looking for. That is why I made sure when I had him > trained that I got trained myself - I already know this about him. The > first thing Elph does when a new rider gets on him is test: what if I just > go in the corner? what if I cut inside at the corner? what if I stand in > the middle and don't move? As soon as the rider demonstrates that they know > what their doing and use the cues correctly, he (acknowledges their > leadership? has vetted them and decided they are acceptable to him and he > will obey?) I don't know! > > On the other hand, he has a sweet little youth rider (riding less than a > year) that he has been packing to Hunter Jumper shows, and they take just > about everything they enter - last one they came home with the big > championship ribbon for their division. Why? Well, Elph LIKES to jump! and > even though Bella is new to riding she has superb natural balance and the > only time she rides him is under the supervision of the trainer, who makes > sure she is doing everything correctly. > > Tish and Elph in gorgeous Minneapolis > sunshine, low humidity, and can't wait to go driving this evening! > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: training or disposition?
This message is from: Gail Russell This article came through from my clicker list. http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32101/study-food-rewards-can-improve-horse-training I have also realized that how I feed makes a big difference in the horse I have to train. And it is not just cutting back on "hot" foods that makes a difference. Since I started feeding with extreme slow feed nets, where the horses eat pretty much nonstop overnight from 4PM to 4 to 6 AM, the horses are much more relaxed, willing and attentive. It is almost like I have a different horse. It think it is because they are not feeling desperate about food, and my also not be suffering from ulcers. I have yet to analyze whether or not this has improved my cinchy geldings attitude toward the cinch. I have just recently realized (with some help from this list) that his problem may be chronic low grade ulcers that cause pain as he is being cinched up. Off to put up slow feeders in Cedarville. We just hauled horses from Sonoma County to Cedarville CA and have to get ready for the coming heat wave. I am worrying about impactions if I do not manage their feed properly since we have moved them to a much dryer climate and slightly different hay. Gail From: owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com [owner-fjordho...@angus.mystery.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Pasqual [tishpasq...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:40 AM To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: training or disposition? This message is from: Patricia Pasqual I think that some horses are more "forgiving" than others - if a novice uses a cue that is somewhat in the range of the cue the horse knows, these schoolmasters "get it" and obediantly perform the task. There are other horses, however, that will never be schoolmasters because their range for understanding a cue is much less forgiving. I don't believe that is training - my horse has every "button" trained there is, but he is fussy about how you ask. If you don't ask correctly, you probably aren't going to get what you are looking for. That is why I made sure when I had him trained that I got trained myself - I already know this about him. The first thing Elph does when a new rider gets on him is test: what if I just go in the corner? what if I cut inside at the corner? what if I stand in the middle and don't move? As soon as the rider demonstrates that they know what their doing and use the cues correctly, he (acknowledges their leadership? has vetted them and decided they are acceptable to him and he will obey?) I don't know! On the other hand, he has a sweet little youth rider (riding less than a year) that he has been packing to Hunter Jumper shows, and they take just about everything they enter - last one they came home with the big championship ribbon for their division. Why? Well, Elph LIKES to jump! and even though Bella is new to riding she has superb natural balance and the only time she rides him is under the supervision of the trainer, who makes sure she is doing everything correctly. Tish and Elph in gorgeous Minneapolis sunshine, low humidity, and can't wait to go driving this evening! Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
training or disposition?
This message is from: Patricia Pasqual I think that some horses are more "forgiving" than others - if a novice uses a cue that is somewhat in the range of the cue the horse knows, these schoolmasters "get it" and obediantly perform the task. There are other horses, however, that will never be schoolmasters because their range for understanding a cue is much less forgiving. I don't believe that is training - my horse has every "button" trained there is, but he is fussy about how you ask. If you don't ask correctly, you probably aren't going to get what you are looking for. That is why I made sure when I had him trained that I got trained myself - I already know this about him. The first thing Elph does when a new rider gets on him is test: what if I just go in the corner? what if I cut inside at the corner? what if I stand in the middle and don't move? As soon as the rider demonstrates that they know what their doing and use the cues correctly, he (acknowledges their leadership? has vetted them and decided they are acceptable to him and he will obey?) I don't know! On the other hand, he has a sweet little youth rider (riding less than a year) that he has been packing to Hunter Jumper shows, and they take just about everything they enter - last one they came home with the big championship ribbon for their division. Why? Well, Elph LIKES to jump! and even though Bella is new to riding she has superb natural balance and the only time she rides him is under the supervision of the trainer, who makes sure she is doing everything correctly. Tish and Elph in gorgeous Minneapolis sunshine, low humidity, and can't wait to go driving this evening! Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: horse training
This message is from: Rovena Kessinger Hi Debbie, I missed this email some how. Odi loves me to rub his ears like that too. I am having to work on Bam-Bam being comfortable with touching his. That's funny, you carrying the rabbit like a baby. I know how you can hold them like that, but if they get scared and kick, they can really scratch! Clicker training with horses is pretty new, I think. To really appreciate how well it works, you'd just have to try it. The part that makes it works so well is the marker (some people use a click). It lets the horse know exactly what you are rewarding him for, which speeds up training. They don't get it wrong. --- On Mon, 6/24/13, Debby Stai wrote: From: Debby Stai Subject: horse training To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Monday, June 24, 2013, 4:58 PM This message is from: "Debby Stai" Iâve really enjoyed a lot of the read, the different methods, different of opinions. I remember my Lang hanging his head on my shoulder, when he was ill, not well, head on my shoulder, that heavy head, and me rubbing those long âmuleâ ears I teased him about. And he with his eyes closed. I think he and my âmomâ were the only two that enjoyed this. I recall over the years with Lang, getting shots when heâd had a terrible infection in his gut, a few years before I lost him, many shots, given by the vet, and many pills, to save his life. And me rubbing his ears to sooth him.   If any have had a domestic rabbit before, one can lay them in your arms much like youâd hold a baby, and rub their tummies and it sooth them. I had one, was a temporary rabbit. He was passed from family to family when we were stationed in Hawaii. We were lucky to have him for a bit. I remember rocking him to sleep in my arms rubbing his tummy, just like a baby. Forgetting even that he wasnât a baby, while I visited with neighbors. What a good laugh we had about that. My first horse I lost, ruptured intestine, had him at a University vet clinic, he was heavily sedated, but able to stand and his head on my shoulder, having to switch shoulders off and on, his head was so heavy. But talking to him, a familiar voice. I do know that Ynde, had tried to use my shoulder to rub or dry her chin, after taking the bridle off, and that was not allowed. Lang use to love to have his butt scratched, with a rubber curry, and would back me into a corner so had to not allow that. I would take him to the cross ties and curry and curry, and curry. Ynde too loved to be curried. All had their favorite spots. Usually places they could not reach. Iâve never done clicker, just had my own way, a mix up of different methods, different trainers, things that worked for me, threw out the rest. I never liked training that scared the horse. Never liked running a horse until it gave. It seemed to me, too much the horse doing it out of fear. Iâve seen some of the top trainers training horses to load on trailers, lunge lunge lunge, until they run them into the trailer. And the horse sweating and breathing hard. It seemed a lesson learned in fear. I remember watching John Lyons many many years ago, and another trainer that followed his line of training, just use a whip the length to reach the butt, or the hock/back leg. And one stood beside the horse to lead the horse in, if he stopped, then one would tap tap tap, not hit, but just tap. Enough tap to irritate. When the horse lifts the leg, stop, rub, and then tap tap tap. I always kept the horses head facing into the trailer. I think I only had one horse this did not work on. âmomâ she was running away as soon as she saw the trailer. I didnât feed treats, there was hay and treats in their hay bag once they were in.   Sometimes this would take hours when first starting or working with one who had fear, many times one would do it day after day after day. And if theyâd not been hauled for awhile and I planned to haul, then Iâd do it for several days, just to remind. Iâve seen some horse trainers on RFD, running the horses in the roundpen, saddle on them for the first time and then running them. I guess that works for them. Works for some people. Just wasnât my way of doing it. A lot of different ways I suppose. As far as the herd mind of a horse. I guess I never did that with mine. I always kept only those together that got along and separated those that didnât. All had neighbors, horses each side of them. I donât like one being the boss and one being the one bullied. Just seems stressful to them, something for them to worry about. I took that away from them. After all, mine were not in the wilds, on many many acres, out 24/7. Mine were stalled, mine were fed in their stalls, I had runs, I had paddocks. Some will say horses are happier out 24/7, being a âhorseâ. I say to each his own. Mine were happy creatures o
horse training
This message is from: "Debby Stai" Iâve really enjoyed a lot of the read, the different methods, different of opinions. I remember my Lang hanging his head on my shoulder, when he was ill, not well, head on my shoulder, that heavy head, and me rubbing those long âmuleâ ears I teased him about. And he with his eyes closed. I think he and my âmomâ were the only two that enjoyed this. I recall over the years with Lang, getting shots when heâd had a terrible infection in his gut, a few years before I lost him, many shots, given by the vet, and many pills, to save his life. And me rubbing his ears to sooth him. If any have had a domestic rabbit before, one can lay them in your arms much like youâd hold a baby, and rub their tummies and it sooth them. I had one, was a temporary rabbit. He was passed from family to family when we were stationed in Hawaii. We were lucky to have him for a bit. I remember rocking him to sleep in my arms rubbing his tummy, just like a baby. Forgetting even that he wasnât a baby, while I visited with neighbors. What a good laugh we had about that. My first horse I lost, ruptured intestine, had him at a University vet clinic, he was heavily sedated, but able to stand and his head on my shoulder, having to switch shoulders off and on, his head was so heavy. But talking to him, a familiar voice. I do know that Ynde, had tried to use my shoulder to rub or dry her chin, after taking the bridle off, and that was not allowed. Lang use to love to have his butt scratched, with a rubber curry, and would back me into a corner so had to not allow that. I would take him to the cross ties and curry and curry, and curry. Ynde too loved to be curried. All had their favorite spots. Usually places they could not reach. Iâve never done clicker, just had my own way, a mix up of different methods, different trainers, things that worked for me, threw out the rest. I never liked training that scared the horse. Never liked running a horse until it gave. It seemed to me, too much the horse doing it out of fear. Iâve seen some of the top trainers training horses to load on trailers, lunge lunge lunge, until they run them into the trailer. And the horse sweating and breathing hard. It seemed a lesson learned in fear. I remember watching John Lyons many many years ago, and another trainer that followed his line of training, just use a whip the length to reach the butt, or the hock/back leg. And one stood beside the horse to lead the horse in, if he stopped, then one would tap tap tap, not hit, but just tap. Enough tap to irritate. When the horse lifts the leg, stop, rub, and then tap tap tap. I always kept the horses head facing into the trailer. I think I only had one horse this did not work on. âmomâ she was running away as soon as she saw the trailer. I didnât feed treats, there was hay and treats in their hay bag once they were in. Sometimes this would take hours when first starting or working with one who had fear, many times one would do it day after day after day. And if theyâd not been hauled for awhile and I planned to haul, then Iâd do it for several days, just to remind. Iâve seen some horse trainers on RFD, running the horses in the roundpen, saddle on them for the first time and then running them. I guess that works for them. Works for some people. Just wasnât my way of doing it. A lot of different ways I suppose. As far as the herd mind of a horse. I guess I never did that with mine. I always kept only those together that got along and separated those that didnât. All had neighbors, horses each side of them. I donât like one being the boss and one being the one bullied. Just seems stressful to them, something for them to worry about. I took that away from them. After all, mine were not in the wilds, on many many acres, out 24/7. Mine were stalled, mine were fed in their stalls, I had runs, I had paddocks. Some will say horses are happier out 24/7, being a âhorseâ. I say to each his own. Mine were happy creatures of habit.Yes, horses can be happy. Happy is crunching their hay, out on some grass, playing with their friends and happy to be worked. Not necessarily âourâ happy, but they indulge us. Thank God for that. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
CT/Training
This message is from: Robin Churchill I understand that you are not supposed to treat if the horse mugs you or demands a treat. I think if you like CT that's great but I think it takes considerable skill to get the timing of it and I guess after the first couple minutes when it's really cool, I find it time-consuming and boring. I'm sure it has a place in the training spectrum but it seems to me that I can train my horses to do the same things with much less effort and faster with whatever it is that I do. I'm sure there are people on the list and elsewhere that are more skilled at horse training particularly under saddle training but I tend to be pretty good with all the ground handling things and my under saddle training skills are improving particularly now that I have 2 horses that are well-suited to my temperament. For example, I can consistently load my 3 on the trailer in probably 6 minutes--the time it takes to walk them to the trailer from the barn. I don't know how I trained them to do it, partially by practicing when we are not under pressure and by putting treats and hay in the trailer but mostly because they "respect" me and when I tell them to get on the trailer, they get on, even if they are not thrilled about it. Similarly, I didn't teach Magnus to self-load, I walked him on the trailer the first few times and he went because I said so, then one day, I just threw the rope over his neck and he walked on and has ever since. Now Levi, that's another story but I think it is harder to get them to self-load in a box stall which is where he goes when I haul 3 horses which is at least once a month. Maybe I just have easy to handle horses, but as far as trailering goes, I don't think the way you get a horse on a trailer is not for him to know he's going on, it's because you know he's going on. I personally think most of this stuff is in the trainer's head and it's their "aura" and confidence that get the horse to do what they want. And the NH stuff gives people a method and confidence and that's what makes it work. I also think there is something to the idea that whoever moves the horse is the boss. I have seen horses that are boss move other horses and personally experienced how much more respectful and submissive the horse is when the trainer moves him/her. Once I was lunging a horse that kept falling in and didn't really respect pointing the whip at the shoulder. When he would fall in, I would back up then I thought "wait a minute--this horse is moving me" Next thing I did was step forward boldly when he tried to fall in. Guess what, he went out on the circle and stayed there. From then on, I paid attention and didn't let a horse back me up when lunging again. Sometimes you just have to be smarter than the horse :) Robin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Clicker Training Clinic
This message is from: Tiffany Amschl There's a clicker training workshop in DeKalb in July. Don't know that Patcfhes would have any interest, but we might want to check it out as auditors anyway? T On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Katie wrote: > This message is from: Katie > > > Hello Everyone, > Since the topic of clicker training has come up, I thought you'd like to > know > that Shawna Karrasch, one of the nation's top clicker trainers for horses > is > coming to Northern Illinois July 22 - July 24. > Shawna has worked with Beezie Madden, Sue Blnks, Ashley Holzer, Jane > Savoie, > Randy and Keady Caldwell. She has paid her dues both in learning the > science > of animal training through her work at Sea World and learning horsemanship > by > apprenticing with Beezie Madden. > > I've worked with Shawna the better part of the last year and she has > helped me > help Morgen change from a scary, snarky mare, to a horse my vet says is > very > well behaved. Before I could not imagine riding her. Now I can. It used to > be > dangerous to hang hay bags out with Tessie and Morgen together. Now it's > not. > Both mares come when called, off grass. And I'm not the most dedicated or > talented trainer. > > Here are the details: > > Participants with Horses: $120 for one day. $225 for two days (includes > stabling). > > Auditors: $30 for one day. $50 for two days. > > Make checks out to On Target Training for the clinic. Send them to me. > Email > me at katiewi...@aol.com for my address or if you have questions. You can > also > find me on Facebook. > > Shavings: Bring your own or buy them. > > What to bring: Hay, treats, a chair, pen, notebook, horse stuff. > > Please bring an up-to-date Coggins and don't forget a health certificate if > you're coming from out of state. > > We'll take orders for lunch at the local Subway. > > PM me or Email me at katiewi...@aol.com for where to send your > reservations. > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Clicker Training Clinic
This message is from: Katie Hello Everyone, Since the topic of clicker training has come up, I thought you'd like to know that Shawna Karrasch, one of the nation's top clicker trainers for horses is coming to Northern Illinois July 22 - July 24. Shawna has worked with Beezie Madden, Sue Blnks, Ashley Holzer, Jane Savoie, Randy and Keady Caldwell. She has paid her dues both in learning the science of animal training through her work at Sea World and learning horsemanship by apprenticing with Beezie Madden. I've worked with Shawna the better part of the last year and she has helped me help Morgen change from a scary, snarky mare, to a horse my vet says is very well behaved. Before I could not imagine riding her. Now I can. It used to be dangerous to hang hay bags out with Tessie and Morgen together. Now it's not. Both mares come when called, off grass. And I'm not the most dedicated or talented trainer. Here are the details: Participants with Horses: $120 for one day. $225 for two days (includes stabling). Auditors: $30 for one day. $50 for two days. Make checks out to On Target Training for the clinic. Send them to me. Email me at katiewi...@aol.com for my address or if you have questions. You can also find me on Facebook. Shavings: Bring your own or buy them. What to bring: Hay, treats, a chair, pen, notebook, horse stuff. Please bring an up-to-date Coggins and don't forget a health certificate if you're coming from out of state. We'll take orders for lunch at the local Subway. PM me or Email me at katiewi...@aol.com for where to send your reservations. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: clicker training
This message is from: Cindy B Giovanetti Cindy said: <> Ulrike said: <> Uli Schnabl,Chase BC>> Cindy follows up: That's not what I said or meant. I said clicker training a pushy horse is NOT for the faint of heart. Gentle people, on the other hand, make wonderful clicker trainers, and pushy horses do beautifully with clicker training. But a gentle person with a pushy horse may have to step outside of their comfort zone at first (which takes courage -- not for the faint of heart) to insist that the horse isn't allowed to push into her to get the treats. I'm speaking from experience here. :) That is why I suggested the person in question contact the ClickRyder yahoo group for advice on their specific situation. I am a firm believer in positive reinforcement. Cindy Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
training
This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com >From Gail's post: the pushy horses are not just stubborn, but they are sensitive, and are resentful of what comes across to them as unfair punishment for not responding to incomprehensible cues. I have one of those! I think that most people do not think of pushy horses as sensitive in the least, as the horse is not being sensitive to our space or needs, just trying to do what it wants to. But my mare, who, after 8 years, can still revert to her pushy ways, is very cognizant of what is fair and what is not fair, at least in her mind. I think she has trained me as much as I have trained her, but finally we get along on most levels. Hopefully I will keep her to the end of her days so she does not have to go through training someone else. Valerie Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5088035464fc33545224st03vuc Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: clicker training
This message is from: Gail Russell I was ommenting on another post, but I see that I goofed and took out the identifying information of the poster. I suppose that the real problem is that people go to clicker training out of a distate for the roughness of some conventional training, but without some of the requirements needed to extinguish pushy behavior via clicker training.. Like a really good understanding of timing, and the resolve to practice, practice, practice the basics And not to put the horse in a tempting situation until the "alternate incompatible behavior"s are very well installed.. I have a pushy horse that I have had problems clicker training as he has learned to grass dive. He can be handled in a very soft, light way as long as he does not see something else he wants to do more. I have not been consistent enough in my training to get him to the point that he has knee jerk reactions/habits to respond to my cue. I believe that, at some point, horses are helpless to "disobey" because they are just so well trained that they do not even think of doing anything different when cued for a given behavior. ! Getting a horse that has been allowed to get pushy beyond that is not easy. CeCe Henderson had a Fjord stallion who was a serious problem with bolting and pulling away. Alexandra Kurland helped CeCe with him, and CeCe brought the stallion to the Libby show in the late 90's where she did a clicker demonstration. The horse was very good. But CeCe had had expert help. I went to a CHris Ellison clinic last weekend. He has worked with Tom Dorrance and Ray Hunt (probably when he was three years old...he doesn't look that old) . He is a conventional trainer, but I saw something very interesting. There was a big Hackney horse that was standing on top of his owner, throwing his shoulder into his owner on circles and was fearful of approaching other horses. The owner was doing the conventional rope throwing and swinging, and the horse was clearly annoyed/fearful. There was a real possibility that he might eventually decide to kick or strike. All Chris did was gently and persistently move the horse out of his space with the back of his hand, and teach the owner the correct mechanics for "leading" a horse out on a circle, and sending him off without overdoing the cue. By the end of the day, the horse was much softer and looked much happier. The real issue was not to get tough on this gelding, but to use correct mechanics. Part of the reas! on I like clicker training is that, even if you are horrible at the physical mechanics, you can often get the correct behavior because the horse is motivated to figure you out. I clicker train my dog, and am no genius at it, but she fills in for me. If I spent as much time clicker training my horses, I think I would be much further along in extinguishing my gelding's problem behavior. ANother example with my pushy horse. We went to load him in the trailer prior to hauling him a great distance. He was not interested in loading. I tried the rope swinging, and he managed to pull out of his halter (not buckled correctly) and took off. My mechanics with a rope are not good enough to load a horse that knows how to pull away. So, I turned to clicker training. We did put a rope into the trailer and Jim just held it. Then I started asking him to go forward via clicker training. Took about 3 minutes and he was on the trailer with no more drama. Sometimes, I think that the real issue with conventional training that is poorly applied is that even the pushy horses are not just stubborn, but they are sensitive, and are resentful of what comes across to them as unfair punishment for not responding to incomprehensibe cues. That certainly appeared to be the problem with the Big Hackney horse at the clinic. Gail This message is from: Ulrike Schnabl ulischn...@hotmail.com But handler errors do. And it seems to me that gentle natured people are the ones most attracted to clicker training, and most likely to let the horse get away with pushy-ness or rudeness. What a statement Gail,it implies A, that gentle natured people are "faint of heart" and B that they are push overs.I consider myself to be a gentle natured person and let me tell you I am far from both of these implications. Uli Schnabl,Chase BC Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
training and holding/English and Western
This message is from: Sue Freivald just a couple of observations from my own (not very extensive) experience. Western riders generally use bits that have some serious leverage and often just the weight of the loose reins provides more "contact" than some of the immediate contact with a non-leverage bit English style. Just to take in to account what "loose reins" may actually imply. A very light movement of the hands with a "Western style" bit provides a lot of correction, or may do so. As in every style, the hands are truly more important than the bit. I had an appy mare that I started under supervision of an excellent trainer. The mare was very heavy in my hands (riding english with a broken snaffle). Felt like I was holding the entire horse up! The trainer told me to just "throw her away". I thought she was nuts at first, but riding in a nice arena, didn't feel too threatened to try it (after all, if you are paying for good advice it is not unreasonable to give it a try!). So I did and it was remarkable. The mare had to find her balance and carry herself. It took a while for us to sort it all out, BUT she really began to listen to me, find her own natural balance, and made riding a pleasure. And it was kind to both of us :~). Enjoy the process, and please keep us posted :~) Sue F. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Clicker training
This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com Since others have mentioned Clicker Training, I'll mention Alexandra Kurland who wrote several books and has made a series of videos on Clicker training. go to Alexandra's website: http://www.theclickercenter.com/ Her first clicker training book, "Clicker Training for your Horse" was published in 1996. It was edited by Karen Pryor and published by her company, Sunshine books. This was the first reference on clicker training horses. It has been followed by two more books and "The Click That Teaches" DVD lesson series. The books and DVDs are designed to compliment one another. They take you systematically through a very detailed and comprehensive training program. It's fun and something you can do when you can't ride. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, cold again,-10F H > And, OK, I just can't resist one more thing: since you said, "I am most > interested in having a great relationship and interesting > activities with my horse..." you might want to look into clicker training. > It is great fun. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Training and Handling Fjord Horses--Checks, to be or not to be.
This message is from: "Ursula & Brian Jensen" After starting with Fjords in the early 80's with very little competent and qualified training resources; I am pleased to say this has changed to the positive side over the years. If you read the list and study what the Fjord resource handlers/trainers are saying, one can say we have certainly grown as a Fjord family of owners, handlers and trainers. The ultimate goal of promoting the Fjord in North America is the training of the breeder/owners and their respective Fjords in all disciplines of Riding, Driving, and Draft. The Fjord is now successfully entering open breed competitions and winning plus turning heads of other breed owners. I can say that America, Canada, and the USA owners and breeders are on a fast track to future success with the breed. Although the European Fjord countries are ahead of us by years, America has came a long way in a short time. The secret to this success is always education and hard work. At least now we have the resources internally of professional people and Fjords that can take us forward to the next challenges. There are no short cuts or special bits that can make up for appropriate education/training and work, work, work. After reading thoroughly all the good advice and comments provided on Relaxation, Suppleness, and Responsiveness for handling and training Fjords, I see one area of awareness I would like to add which has only been lightly touched. As a former Mental Health Therapist this stands out to me. The body language, abilities, behavior, and emotions of the handler trainer. I believe Fjords can most times read us better than we can read them!!! Sometimes I get or inherit Fjords for training who have not done well with their handlers or owners. In most cases after a few months I can recapture a Fjords trust and willingness to work with one on one training. Wayne Hipsley, once said about Fjords. " Who is the boss?" However the Fjord is only half the team or formula as one must also bring the owner/handler into a trusting working relationship with their Fjord. The handler is always communicating to the horse who is watching and interpreting what it sees. Another question recently raised was about using side checks or overhead checks. I have never seen them used on Fjords in Europe but they are quite prominently used in draft style hitches for Fjords especially in the Mid-West.. I see mostly side checks used, not the overhead style. There are folks who say a check stops the Fjord from bucking while driving, or eating while standing harnessed. I have seen side checks used as sparking decoration with the checks set so loose they are ineffective. In certain other equine breeds checks are a mandatory part of the harness. Sometimes one sees a horse so trussed up with checks it is uncomfortable for the horse. There equine are breeds out there who believe checks are necessary to achieve frame and collection in their horses. As a Canadian CEF Judge in Driving and Draft we were taught an observation about checks in Open Pleasure Driving Classes. These classes are Judged 70% on manners and way of going. If I have three horses tied for first place after the class I place them as follows. The horse without checks is placed first, and the horse with checks are placed following. By using checks in an Open Pleasure class you are telling the Judge you are needing something extra to achieve manners and way of going from your horse. In lieu of using checks in training a young or green Fjord, I prefer a bucking strap. One of our most prominent Trainer/Judges in Western Canada uses a bucking strap just as often as she uses a helmet. All the time.Brian Jensen Ursula and Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Lumby BC Canada www.trinityfjords.com Please note as of 03/2011 our new email address <mailto:ursu...@gmail.com> ursu...@gmail.com. Please update your address book. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Spooking/training/age/Fjord personality
This message is from: "Mary Ofjord" " I bought Miss Osa just before her 5th birthday and this spring she will be 18!!! Wow where did that time go? She came to me a green trail horse. I swear that spooking was just a game to her the first few years. I could just feel her having way too good a time. It took lots of time in the saddle as well as age before she was a steady trail buddy. I think she was at least 10 before I considered her "grown up" in her mind." This sounds exactly like my horse Vedas, who will be 20 this spring! I got her when she was just five, green as grass, and part of the deal when I bought her was the seller would put 30 days training on her! I was in no way at that time in my horsemanship or riding skills able to take on a green broke horse, but I did and we got throught it. She would look at things to see if they might make spook. She is also a horse that goes better with contact rather than a loose rein. I believe she gets security from that feel. She, too, also gave up on the "Famous Vedas Spook" after she became more mature, and so did her rider, and I also got to learn how to ride out a spook from a very good teacher. Since were sharing spooking/bolting stories, I'd like to share another tale; we always go out for a ride on New Year's Day - no matter how cold, we go. This New Year's Day turned out not too cold at around 20 degrees, but it was terribly windy. We invited a friend to come with us, who is not as experienced at riding as my friend and me, so I put her on my best, most trustworthy horse, Mirage. I should also mention the horses hadn't been ridden in probably three weeks and they were anxious to get out and do something. We rode through the woods because it was less windy down in the creek bottom. Everything was going along very well. The little mare that I was riding got to go in the lead for awhile and she was quite jumpy, (Trees cracking, brush moving) but did everything asked of her. We call her our Arab in a Fjord suit. We were heading back towards the barn and going down through a little draw when I saw Mirage pick up his pace from behind me. (I'm always riding all the horses if someone is out on my animals.) He went into a trot, then a faster trot, and I could see our friend's hands come up in the air, holding onto the reins, heels starting to point skyward, going into the fetal position. I could see Mirage thinking "You're not the boss of me. I can go as fast as I want!" and he broke into a canter. Our friend bailed off, luckily into some deep drifted snow, but she was shaken and bruised on her hip. The other two horses thought they probably should have gone with Mirage too. My mare gave a little squeal and shook her head, and I took the left rein and asked her to disengage, which she did, and came to a nice stop so I could dismount! At least it worked this time! The other mare thought about leaving, but it looked like too much energy and was glad to stay with us. Luckily, the other friend that was with us is an EMT and made sure the "dumpee" was okay before we continued towards home - only about 1/3 mile away. The gal that got dumped said emphatically that she knew it wasn't Mirage's fault, and she was worried about where he might have gone. I told her not to worry about him, he'll go back to the barn and my husband will take care of him. He'll be okay. We probably stayed in the draw for about ten minutes, to make sure the gal was okay enough to wade through the knee deep snow back to the barn. None of us are spring chickens. When we started up the hill, I heard the EMT call out, "Here's Mirage!" He had cantered up to the top of the hill, and instead of going home, he found some juicy grasses just below the surface of the snow and was happily munching away. I think he was waiting around for us to come and get him. Mirage: (why go back to the barn when there's nice juicy grass here and I don't have to share!) Mary O. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6855 (20120203) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: Kim Manzoni Beth Thank you for this great advice! It will definitely come in handy as I train my youngster! Very good info!! -Kim in Maryland...reading Yahoo messages instead of doing my taxes! From: Starfire Farm To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Training the One-rein stop? This message is from: Starfire Farm On 1/30/2012 9:35 PM, Julia Webb wrote: > Any differences with installing that one-rein > stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? I'm not the best rider > in the world, but as a thinking adult beginner, I've had many teachers, all of > which (to some degree or another) made sure I knew how to A) Get off a moving > horse as safely as possible, and B) Train that one-rein stop. This was Buck Brannaman's advice, many years ago during a colt starting clinic I was in, about teaching the one-rein halt..."Make it [the halt] a soothing place to be,"...so the horse gets security from it rather than being just a means of control. So, I don't think it is just about "flex, flex, flex." Sometimes if you try to teach a Fjord to flex "roboticly" (like some clinicians) you can teach the horse to fear and brace against the one-rein halt. Often, with a Fjord, one needs to break down a movement or request into smaller steps to help it understand what you want. Teach it to yield laterally to the bit (or, preferably to the halter) slightly first, then graduate to adding neck flexion, then add the disengagement. The rider's seat position and balance are also crucial in a one-rein halt. The rider's balance should be somewhat over the outside hip, but deep and grounded in the seat of the saddle, rather than what the body wants to do naturally, which is lean over the inside shoulder, weight out of the seat and over the rider's legs. Unfortunately, when the weight of the rider is over the shoulders, it makes the horse's weight fall onto the forehand and the horse could lose its balance, falling over its own front feet. A scary situation for both horse and rider. Fjords can have very strong necks, but setting that neck always starts with /mental/ strength or bracing. Under normal circumstances (meaning the horse is comfortable with the situation, etc.) their necks are extremely supple. In fact, I have found them to be extremely supple throughout their entire bodies! I have taught, and continue to teach, many Fjords (and other horses) to do a "one rein halt" /without/ reins, essentially teaching them to disengage when I "touch the hindquarter button" (my students will understand this! ;-) When you have that...you really have a connection that can be very reliable. Having said that, a horse that is truly afraid and is a true runaway cannot be bent with any amount of force, Fjord or otherwise. One had to chose whether to ride it out or jump off. If you ride it out, you have to wait until the horse "peaks" to try to make any effect with a one rein halt. Make that one-rein halt your horse's "little happy place" and you should have a tool that is reliable for both you and your horse. Beth -- Beth Beymer and Sandy North Starfire Farm, LLC www.starfirefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: Starfire Farm On 1/30/2012 9:35 PM, Julia Webb wrote: > Any differences with installing that one-rein > stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? I'm not the best rider > in the world, but as a thinking adult beginner, I've had many teachers, all of > which (to some degree or another) made sure I knew how to A) Get off a moving > horse as safely as possible, and B) Train that one-rein stop. This was Buck Brannaman's advice, many years ago during a colt starting clinic I was in, about teaching the one-rein halt..."Make it [the halt] a soothing place to be,"...so the horse gets security from it rather than being just a means of control. So, I don't think it is just about "flex, flex, flex." Sometimes if you try to teach a Fjord to flex "roboticly" (like some clinicians) you can teach the horse to fear and brace against the one-rein halt. Often, with a Fjord, one needs to break down a movement or request into smaller steps to help it understand what you want. Teach it to yield laterally to the bit (or, preferably to the halter) slightly first, then graduate to adding neck flexion, then add the disengagement. The rider's seat position and balance are also crucial in a one-rein halt. The rider's balance should be somewhat over the outside hip, but deep and grounded in the seat of the saddle, rather than what the body wants to do naturally, which is lean over the inside shoulder, weight out of the seat and over the rider's legs. Unfortunately, when the weight of the rider is over the shoulders, it makes the horse's weight fall onto the forehand and the horse could lose its balance, falling over its own front feet. A scary situation for both horse and rider. Fjords can have very strong necks, but setting that neck always starts with /mental/ strength or bracing. Under normal circumstances (meaning the horse is comfortable with the situation, etc.) their necks are extremely supple. In fact, I have found them to be extremely supple throughout their entire bodies! I have taught, and continue to teach, many Fjords (and other horses) to do a "one rein halt" /without/ reins, essentially teaching them to disengage when I "touch the hindquarter button" (my students will understand this! ;-) When you have that...you really have a connection that can be very reliable. Having said that, a horse that is truly afraid and is a true runaway cannot be bent with any amount of force, Fjord or otherwise. One had to chose whether to ride it out or jump off. If you ride it out, you have to wait until the horse "peaks" to try to make any effect with a one rein halt. Make that one-rein halt your horse's "little happy place" and you should have a tool that is reliable for both you and your horse. Beth -- Beth Beymer and Sandy North Starfire Farm, LLC www.starfirefarm.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: "Mary Ofjord" So, I'm curious about things we can learn from this.Practical takeaways. Fjord trainers: Any differences with installing that one-rein stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? Ah yes, the one-rein-stop. When I first got back into horses for the second time in my life, about eighteen years ago, I realized I didn't have the speed or coordination and fearlessness I had in my youth. This was about the time the natural horsemanship movement hit the media - thank goodness. I read about one rein stops and got my mare to do a lovely disengagement and stop at the walk, trot and lope - in the arena. If she would get anxious out on the trail, I could use it to my advantage in that situation too. One fine day, my husband and I were going out our old driveway for a ride. Rune, the horse he was riding suddenly spotted a <<<"SIGN">>> that hadn't been there the last time he went down that driveway. He spun around so fast that my husband swears he could see his huge blond butt and black tail disappearing down the driveway back towards the barn before he hit the ground! My mare decided there must be some reason to run for her life and decided to take off after Rune. I can use my one rein stop, I thought. Ha! I grabbed one rein and it felt like I was pulling on a freight train. At that point I decided I might as well just go along for the ride. It was fast but short. My husband's gelding was peacefully grazing on the lawn when my mare and I pulled up beside him. He looked at us like "hi, ya want some grass?" So, moral to this story, you can teach the one rein stop to any horse, but when they are really in a panic, with their strong, heavy muscular necks Fjords might not be as easy to stop as one of those skinny necked critters. Mary O North Coast Fjords __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6844 (20120131) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: S K Kim, Very good advice! My trainer, Chris Lombard teaches that very method...but some people are afraid I suppose, the Fjord's neck is So powerful the one rein stop won't workIt does on my AndyI'm sure with a diligent amount of training any Fjord will hopefully, turn that awesome neck around! From: Kim Manzoni To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 5:41 AM Subject: Re: Training the One-rein stop? This message is from: Kim Manzoni I have been teaching my horses the one rein stop for a few years now because I have a QH that was labelled as "Dangerous" by former owners and trainers. My best advice is flex, flex, flex. You want your horse to be soft and supple so that when you pick up on the reins, even in an emergency, you are able to get that head around to your leg. A horse should not be able to continue to run away... at least not forward... if his head is bent to your leg. While I have not trained a Fjord yet, I am sure that if you get your horse soft and supple and bending that head around, it should work just the same. -Kim ... Fjordless until March From: Julia Webb To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:35 PM Subject: Training the One-rein stop? This message is from: Julia Webb So, I'm curious about things we can learn from this.Practical takeaways. Fjord trainers: Any differences with installing that one-rein stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? I'm not the best rider in the world, but as a thinking adult beginner, I've had many teachers, all of which (to some degree or another) made sure I knew how to A) Get off a moving horse as safely as possible, and B) Train that one-rein stop. (At least with a Fjord, the distance to the ground is a lot less than the 16.3 Standardbred I learned the rolling dismount on...). I know that most horses can run right through a pulley rein or a one-rein stop if they haven't had it ingrained to the point of instinct. Any experience with making it as effective as possible? -JuliaFjordless in Kansas > Thank you so much for that info Valerie! I needed the confidence boost! I > want to take Andy and J.J. to Arcadia and have thought of them running away > since reading some emails on here..very scary thought Important Fjord Horse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important Fjord Horse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: Kim Manzoni I have been teaching my horses the one rein stop for a few years now because I have a QH that was labelled as "Dangerous" by former owners and trainers. My best advice is flex, flex, flex. You want your horse to be soft and supple so that when you pick up on the reins, even in an emergency, you are able to get that head around to your leg. A horse should not be able to continue to run away... at least not forward... if his head is bent to your leg. While I have not trained a Fjord yet, I am sure that if you get your horse soft and supple and bending that head around, it should work just the same. -Kim ... Fjordless until March From: Julia Webb To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:35 PM Subject: Training the One-rein stop? This message is from: Julia Webb So, I'm curious about things we can learn from this.Practical takeaways. Fjord trainers: Any differences with installing that one-rein stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? I'm not the best rider in the world, but as a thinking adult beginner, I've had many teachers, all of which (to some degree or another) made sure I knew how to A) Get off a moving horse as safely as possible, and B) Train that one-rein stop. (At least with a Fjord, the distance to the ground is a lot less than the 16.3 Standardbred I learned the rolling dismount on...). I know that most horses can run right through a pulley rein or a one-rein stop if they haven't had it ingrained to the point of instinct. Any experience with making it as effective as possible? -JuliaFjordless in Kansas > Thank you so much for that info Valerie! I needed the confidence boost! I > want to take Andy and J.J. to Arcadia and have thought of them running away > since reading some emails on here..very scary thought Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Training the One-rein stop?
This message is from: Julia Webb So, I'm curious about things we can learn from this.Practical takeaways. Fjord trainers: Any differences with installing that one-rein stop/disengagement of the hind-quarters with Fjords? I'm not the best rider in the world, but as a thinking adult beginner, I've had many teachers, all of which (to some degree or another) made sure I knew how to A) Get off a moving horse as safely as possible, and B) Train that one-rein stop. (At least with a Fjord, the distance to the ground is a lot less than the 16.3 Standardbred I learned the rolling dismount on...). I know that most horses can run right through a pulley rein or a one-rein stop if they haven't had it ingrained to the point of instinct. Any experience with making it as effective as possible? -JuliaFjordless in Kansas > Thank you so much for that info Valerie! I needed the confidence boost! I > want to take Andy and J.J. to Arcadia and have thought of them running away > since reading some emails on here..very scary thought Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: training for Ynde
This message is from: Kathleen Prince Hey Robin, Are you in S. FL? I found an excellent trainer here in Orlando. He understands my fjords perfectly :-) I'll hook you up if you want. -- Kathleen Prince kathl...@pookiebros.com Pookie Bros. Pet Sitting Professional Pet Care In Your Home! http://www.pookiebros.com On Nov 30, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Robin Churchill wrote: > This message is from: Robin Churchill > > > I think it is hard to find a good trainer particularly in certain > areas. In > our area, there is no one that I let really ride my horses except a > girl who > just exercises them for me at times. I do take lessons but then I > am in > control of what happens and if I think it is something > inappropriate, I just > won't do it. When I have them trained, I ship them 4 hours away to > a trainer > in Ocala who understands that not all horses are the same and > doesn't drill > them. She understands that not every horse responds to the same > approach and > what works with one may not with another. I agree with what Beth > said about > the stoic but sensitive nature of fjords which is something many > trainers do > not understand. I would look for someone who is fair, even- > tempered, calm and > confident. Good luck. > > Robin > > > > > From: Debby > > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Sent: Wednesday, > November 30, 2011 3:36 PM > Subject: training for Ynde > > This message is from: > "Debby" > > > I appreciate the support. Id worked > hard I thought, to find someone that > worked with horses individually. Id > not thought of mules and I dont > think Id have a mule trainer close to me > that does more than heavy harness. > Id found a swedish dressage trainer, was > told he was classical. Visited > with the barn owner for over a year and at > first she was very excited about > him. I also visited with a few of his > students who were happy with him. Went > to a show he was riding in and > coaching his students. Unbeknownst to me, he > is close to 70, and TALL. > Long legs. He was riding a pretty hot lusitano in > warm up and handled him > great, never abusive. Then did his class and won. Is > a students horse. > She rode the horse later and did well also. > I did talk to him about him riding > Ynde, and he thought it not be a problem, > but wed also talked in length > about long lining, getting Ynde strong in > her backend, and also balanced. > His students mentioned hed hosted a clinic > in long lining at their barn. > Well, even though Id visited with the barn owner before bringing > Ynde, she > did not tell me theyd had a falling out. She and her trainer at > her barn > do not speak unless it is necessary. Talk about DRAMA! > But he is popular > with at least half of her boarders and until she finds the > perfect one to > replace him, she just avoids him when he is there. Rides with > her friends > when hes not. Its a wonderful facility. > But he did push Ynde too fast, > too much too soon. I gave them no time limits, > in fact we wanted her there > through the winter as they have the nice indoor > facility and wanting to still > sell my place, I felt this was good timing. We > would go visit once a week, > its 3hrs. away. The caretakers are good. The > owners way of riding is more > along my idea of training. > I wish I had a coach around. Rural Texas is > hard. Ive not any plans on > sending her off again and not being able to be > there daily. The trainer ended > up not riding her, had one of his students > ride her. Hed ride another > horse and work with others while supposedly > giving her a lesson with Ynde. He > tries to get as much done in as little > time as possible. Im sure its > uncomfortable somewhat for him too, with > the friction between he and the > owner, but still, I was paying for four 45 > minutes private lessons and it was > clear to me that was not what I was > getting. > After showing up and finding her tail and backend slathered with > poop, and her > anxious and stressed, this last Friday, we talked to the owner, > they had a vet > come out and check on her, give her some meds, said no riding > until it clears > up, which it did after 3 days. We brought her home the > Monday. Now she is > still a little bit unsettled, confused, but ok. Maybe > shes worried shes > just home for a vacation. But her poop is normal and > cleared up. > Id hoped Id found the right place, the safe place. Do they > even > exist?? > Debby in Tx > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription > Management: http://t
RE: training for Ynde
This message is from: Debbie LeBreton Hi; I wish I could tell you that there are safe place out there but I have had the same experience as you and spent thousands of dollars in stables and training and finally I have brought my horse home and do my own type of training. Just to let you know it took me a year to make him feel safe again. Today, when I got home, I had a someone doing body work on him but when he seen me coming towards him, he whinned and tried to come to me, so making a long sad story for my precious horse into a short happy story is nobody can take care of our own horses(mules) better than we can our own self. Please take care and trust your inner self. Debbie, BC, Canada > From: miss.am...@earthlink.net > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: training for Ynde > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:36:56 -0600 > > This message is from: "Debby" > > > I appreciate the support. Id worked hard I thought, to find someone that > worked with horses individually. Id not thought of mules and I dont > think Id have a mule trainer close to me that does more than heavy harness. > Id found a swedish dressage trainer, was told he was classical. Visited > with the barn owner for over a year and at first she was very excited about > him. I also visited with a few of his students who were happy with him. Went > to a show he was riding in and coaching his students. Unbeknownst to me, he > is close to 70, and TALL. Long legs. He was riding a pretty hot lusitano in > warm up and handled him great, never abusive. Then did his class and won. Is > a students horse. She rode the horse later and did well also. > I did talk to him about him riding Ynde, and he thought it not be a problem, > but wed also talked in length about long lining, getting Ynde strong in > her backend, and also balanced. His students mentioned hed hosted a clinic > in long lining at their barn. > Well, even though Id visited with the barn owner before bringing Ynde, she > did not tell me theyd had a falling out. She and her trainer at her barn > do not speak unless it is necessary. Talk about DRAMA! > But he is popular with at least half of her boarders and until she finds the > perfect one to replace him, she just avoids him when he is there. Rides with > her friends when hes not. Its a wonderful facility. > But he did push Ynde too fast, too much too soon. I gave them no time limits, > in fact we wanted her there through the winter as they have the nice indoor > facility and wanting to still sell my place, I felt this was good timing. We > would go visit once a week, its 3hrs. away. The caretakers are good. The > owners way of riding is more along my idea of training. > I wish I had a coach around. Rural Texas is hard. Ive not any plans on > sending her off again and not being able to be there daily. The trainer ended > up not riding her, had one of his students ride her. Hed ride another > horse and work with others while supposedly giving her a lesson with Ynde. He > tries to get as much done in as little time as possible. Im sure its > uncomfortable somewhat for him too, with the friction between he and the > owner, but still, I was paying for four 45 minutes private lessons and it was > clear to me that was not what I was getting. > After showing up and finding her tail and backend slathered with poop, and her > anxious and stressed, this last Friday, we talked to the owner, they had a vet > come out and check on her, give her some meds, said no riding until it clears > up, which it did after 3 days. We brought her home the Monday. Now she is > still a little bit unsettled, confused, but ok. Maybe shes worried shes > just home for a vacation. But her poop is normal and cleared up. > Id hoped Id found the right place, the safe place. Do they even > exist?? > Debby in Tx > > Important FjordHorse List Links: > Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e > FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw > FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941
Re: training for Ynde
This message is from: Robin Churchill I think it is hard to find a good trainer particularly in certain areas. In our area, there is no one that I let really ride my horses except a girl who just exercises them for me at times. I do take lessons but then I am in control of what happens and if I think it is something inappropriate, I just won't do it. When I have them trained, I ship them 4 hours away to a trainer in Ocala who understands that not all horses are the same and doesn't drill them. She understands that not every horse responds to the same approach and what works with one may not with another. I agree with what Beth said about the stoic but sensitive nature of fjords which is something many trainers do not understand. I would look for someone who is fair, even-tempered, calm and confident. Good luck. Robin From: Debby To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:36 PM Subject: training for Ynde This message is from: "Debby" I appreciate the support. Iâd worked hard I thought, to find someone that worked with horses individually. Iâd not thought of mules and I donât think Iâd have a mule trainer close to me that does more than heavy harness. Iâd found a swedish dressage trainer, was told he was classical. Visited with the barn owner for over a year and at first she was very excited about him. I also visited with a few of his students who were happy with him. Went to a show he was riding in and coaching his students. Unbeknownst to me, he is close to 70, and TALL. Long legs. He was riding a pretty hot lusitano in warm up and handled him great, never abusive. Then did his class and won. Is a students horse. She rode the horse later and did well also. I did talk to him about him riding Ynde, and he thought it not be a problem, but weâd also talked in length about long lining, getting Ynde strong in her backend, and also balanced. His students mentioned heâd hosted a clinic in long lining at their barn. Well, even though Iâd visited with the barn owner before bringing Ynde, she did not tell me theyâd had a falling out. She and her trainer at her barn do not speak unless it is necessary. Talk about DRAMA! But he is popular with at least half of her boarders and until she finds the perfect one to replace him, she just avoids him when he is there. Rides with her friends when heâs not. Itâs a wonderful facility. But he did push Ynde too fast, too much too soon. I gave them no time limits, in fact we wanted her there through the winter as they have the nice indoor facility and wanting to still sell my place, I felt this was good timing. We would go visit once a week, its 3hrs. away. The caretakers are good. The owners way of riding is more along my idea of training. I wish I had a coach around. Rural Texas is hard. Iâve not any plans on sending her off again and not being able to be there daily. The trainer ended up not riding her, had one of his students ride her. Heâd ride another horse and work with others while supposedly giving her a lesson with Ynde. He tries to get as much done in as little time as possible. Iâm sure its uncomfortable somewhat for him too, with the friction between he and the owner, but still, I was paying for four 45 minutes private lessons and it was clear to me that was not what I was getting. After showing up and finding her tail and backend slathered with poop, and her anxious and stressed, this last Friday, we talked to the owner, they had a vet come out and check on her, give her some meds, said no riding until it clears up, which it did after 3 days. We brought her home the Monday. Now she is still a little bit unsettled, confused, but ok. Maybe sheâs worried sheâs just home for a vacation. But her poop is normal and cleared up. Iâd hoped Iâd found the right place, the safe place. Do they even exist?? Debby in Tx Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941
Re: training for Ynde
This message is from: "Mary Ofjord" Debby, You'll will have to look carefully. There is someone on the list, Bridig Wasson, from California who has Fjords and mules and understands the needs of both. She was recently featured in an article in Mules and More magazine. There are some good mule trainers in Arizona, and probably in Texas too. If you would like more information, contact me off the list. Mary Ofjord Proud owner of six Fjords and one mule!! - Original Message - From: "Debby" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:36 PM Subject: training for Ynde This message is from: "Debby" I appreciate the support. Iâ?Td worked hard I thought, to find someone that worked with horses individually. Iâ?Td not thought of mules and I donâ?Tt think Iâ?Td have a mule trainer close to me that does more than heavy harness. Iâ?Td found a swedish dressage trainer, was told he was classical. Visited with the barn owner for over a year and at first she was very excited about him. I also visited with a few of his students who were happy with him. Went to a show he was riding in and coaching his students. Unbeknownst to me, he is close to 70, and TALL. Long legs. He was riding a pretty hot lusitano in warm up and handled him great, never abusive. Then did his class and won. Is a students horse. She rode the horse later and did well also. I did talk to him about him riding Ynde, and he thought it not be a problem, but weâ?Td also talked in length about long lining, getting Ynde strong in her backend, and also balanced. His students mentioned heâ?Td hosted a clinic in long lining at their barn. Well, even though Iâ?Td visited with the barn owner before bringing Ynde, she did not tell me theyâ?Td had a falling out. She and her trainer at her barn do not speak unless it is necessary. Talk about DRAMA! But he is popular with at least half of her boarders and until she finds the perfect one to replace him, she just avoids him when he is there. Rides with her friends when heâ?Ts not. Itâ?Ts a wonderful facility. But he did push Ynde too fast, too much too soon. I gave them no time limits, in fact we wanted her there through the winter as they have the nice indoor facility and wanting to still sell my place, I felt this was good timing. We would go visit once a week, its 3hrs. away. The caretakers are good. The owners way of riding is more along my idea of training. I wish I had a coach around. Rural Texas is hard. Iâ?Tve not any plans on sending her off again and not being able to be there daily. The trainer ended up not riding her, had one of his students ride her. Heâ?Td ride another horse and work with others while supposedly giving her a lesson with Ynde. He tries to get as much done in as little time as possible. Iâ?Tm sure its uncomfortable somewhat for him too, with the friction between he and the owner, but still, I was paying for four 45 minutes private lessons and it was clear to me that was not what I was getting. After showing up and finding her tail and backend slathered with poop, and her anxious and stressed, this last Friday, we talked to the owner, they had a vet come out and check on her, give her some meds, said no riding until it clears up, which it did after 3 days. We brought her home the Monday. Now she is still a little bit unsettled, confused, but ok. Maybe sheâ?Ts worried sheâ?Ts just home for a vacation. But her poop is normal and cleared up. Iâ?Td hoped Iâ?Td found the right place, the safe place. Do they even exist?? Debby in Tx Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941 __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6673 (2030) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6673 (2030) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH-L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky941
Re: training of fjords
This message is from: "Mary Ofjord" . Iâ?Tm hopeful that no more than 90days, maybe less..we will have to see how she does. Wondered what everyones thoughts were. What I should watch for. How much to expect in 30days. Ynde is green but started and I do think with the right trainer, she will come along quickly. Debby: It all depends on the person who gets your horse. I've seen instances where the best trained horse goes "bad" in a few short months just because the person who owns them hasn't a clue about horsemanship. This has happened to a friend of mine whom I thought had a better handle on her horsemanship skills. All the horses she has had in the past 5-6 years have gone down the road. Why? Because they started to buck - probably more like a crow hop, but it unseated her and she became fearful. She came up to ride on my horses and the first thing she asked was "Does he buck?" So, even if the trainer can ride your horse doesn't mean the next person who gets her will be able to do the same. On the other hand, if the horse's personality fits her new owner, then magic can happen. Mary O. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5942 (20110310) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
training of fjords
This message is from: "Debby" Iâm going to visit a Friesian trainer this next week. Having been in such a rural area and no trainers in dressage that Iâve been happy with, I am hopeful that I will be happy with what I see. She is a friesian breeder/trainer and shows. She is originally from Germany. Speaking with her she seems to think a lot along the lines of classical dressage, light hand, move from lightness. She feels the temperment of the friesian demands this and Iâm wondering too if that is the case for fjords, or at least Ynde. My Langster that I lost last year was very forward and light, almost too forward as if evading the leg on him. Ynde is not forward and some would tend to kick kick kick and tap tap tap and cluck cluck cluck and still not get anywhere with her. Yet watch her move in the pasture and how forward she is, some really nice working trots and she can surely canter from one place to the other but lunging and undersaddle, she poops out. Iâm close to 60yrs. of age, I havenât the knowledge nor the strength nor the balance to do right by her and at her 8yrs. of age, she needs it now. We had started her and then she threw some things at us that we didnât know what to do...shouldering in, taking husband to the corner of the arena : ) all those fun things. She didnât do it with me so much as I stayed off of the rail, did a lot of change of directions and stayed away from those corners. But, I had my Lang to go to and enjoy and he was easy and I was blessed to have a horse that pretty much just did without any worries for me. So my plan, at this time as my plans seem to change as the weather, is to have her do undersaddle work with her in the arena and in the fields, exposure, and then I will think of trying to place her. She, the trainer, can only visit this barn 3 times a week, it has a covered screened large dressage arena so never an excuse to not ride, we will look when we visit. We will go up and visit her at least once a week, groom her, watch a lesson. Iâm hopeful that no more than 90days, maybe less..we will have to see how she does. Wondered what everyones thoughts were. What I should watch for. How much to expect in 30days. Ynde is green but started and I do think with the right trainer, she will come along quickly. Its more like she is being restarted and with a trainer rather than me. Will only be dressage, no jumping nor driving..but some trail riding to give her that exposure. thanks. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training Cart for Sale-Can be viewed at Driving Clinic.
This message is from: "Ursula & Brian Jensen" I have decided to sell a Sunwood Fjord Training Cart manufactured by Ron Dayton. It is a special order cart with hydraulic brakes and made for Fjords.. It is most suitable for Training, conditioning, and easily converted to a forecart. I have not used it as much as I had planned so have decided to find it a new home. The metal cart is almost new and has not been damaged or in an accident. I am asking 1200.00 Ursula and I will be bringing the cart to Warren and Sylvia Riddles on the weekend of their local Driving Club's Clinic. It is my understanding the Clinic is now booked full, but there are still some auditing vacancies. The cart will be available there for viewing on May 28, 29, and 30th--Brian Jensen URSULA AND BRIAN JENSEN 1903 TRINITY VALLEY ROAD LUMBY B.C. V0E 2G4 250-547-6303 WWW.TRINITYFJORDS.COM Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Training/Trainers
This message is from: Heather Baskey Amen! Pat himself fully admits these "games" have been around for ages (ie., they are not new). His sharing of knowledge to the average person (namely - ME) enabled one to understand and communicate effectively with their horse. I am far from perfect and I learn from my horse each and every day. I listen to and trust my horse each and every day. I never take our relationship for granted and my rapport with him is everything to me. It brings me much joy every day that I arrive at the barn (I board out) that when Henry spots me from "acres" away in the paddocks, he lifts his head and begins his trek over to greet me. I never catch him ... he *always* catches me ... that is the BEST feeling in the world, being wanted by your equine spirit, buddy, partner, friend. Heather still and always will be Playing Naturally with my bestest pony pal friend ... Simple things - like many Parelli and other natural horsemanship techniques may be old school for some and others this is the newest style of teaching/learning. If it makes a better connection between horse and owner, isn't that what we're looking for? Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm Bothell, WA 425-402-6781 www.willowsedgefarm.com __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training/Trainers
This message is from: Corinne Logan Amy's question made me think of an email I got a few weeks ago A woman had just purchased 2 weanling (or yearling, don't remember now) Fjords and had asked her "trainer" what she should do with them now. I don't know the experience of the owner or who the "trainer" was, but the question was enough that I had to call her. Her trainer told her to put them out to pasture and basically care for their feed and water and to let them be together and just be horses. HUH? No way! When I called her I told her first to find a new, real horse trainer and start working with these two immediately. Handling, walking, ground manners, etc. While this may seem totally obvious and just like breathing to those who have had horse for quite some time, it is not for the newbies. Just because someone calls themselves a trainer - with or without results - does not necessarily qualify them as a trainer. Simple things - like many Parelli and other natural horsemanship techniques may be old school for some and others this is the newest style of teaching/learning. If it makes a better connection between horse and owner, isn't that what we're looking for? > Anyone know the name of the "trainer" in the video? Inquiring minds want to > know > > Amy Evers > Dun Lookin' Fjords > Cottage Grove OR 97424 Corinne Logan Willows Edge Farm Bothell, WA 425-402-6781 www.willowsedgefarm.com Blog:http://willowsedgefarm.blogspot.com/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Feeding a colt under training
This message is from: Sarah Clarke alfalfa alone is a very complete food for a fjord. the problem is that it's calcium phosphorus ratio is way to much toward Ca. You need to supplement phosphorus, especailly if your colt is not done growing. Other wise the alfalfa has plenty of carbs, protein, vitamins fat and TDN. --- On Sat, 3/6/10, Steve Sessoms wrote: if I switch Arlo over from Bermuda to alfalfa and have him on Safe Choice for a pellet feed, is that good enough or should I add or change to another feed for balanced nutrition? Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Feeding a colt under training
This message is from: "Steve Sessoms" I have finally found a trainer who is endorsed by two friends and is near enough I can just hop in the car and visit my pony on a whim. The trainer feeds alfalfa and works them fairly heavily once he has them understanding that their job is to do some work for us. So ... if I switch Arlo over from Bermuda to alfalfa and have him on Safe Choice for a pellet feed, is that good enough or should I add or change to another feed for balanced nutrition? Thanks for any input. Meredith Sessoms Tooksend Norwegian Fjordhorses Moulton AL USA Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Training
This message is from: Gail Russell Congratulations on venturing into the world of clicker training. As you found out, mugging behavior can (and must) be trained away. IT is easy to get them to stop grabbing for treats, and is about the third thing you should teach with the clicker (the first things being to "charge the clicker" and to touch a target). Actually, what you are really doing is teaching the horse that "mugging" by grabbing for the treat or crowding does not work, but that "mugging" by trying out different behaviors to see what earns him a treat is acceptable. It is true that the enthusiasm generated by the clicker and treat can get out of hand and you do have to make sure you are giving the horse tasks that are broken down far enough that he can "get it" without trying all kinds of wild behaviors and just getting frustrated. The treat does not have to be present all the time, but that is a lesson I need more work on myself before I can properly explain it. I believe "variable reinforcement" is the key. If I ever get my accounting finished, I will try to post more on that. OR, maybe someone else can talk about it??? Gail This message is from: Toni Very interesting thread about training. I was dead set against clicker training at one time. I believed if an untrained person used it, that's most of us, the horse would precieve that we were giving away our resources (food) to him Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Training
This message is from: Toni Very interesting thread about training. I was dead set against clicker training at one time. I believed if an untrained person used it, that's most of us, the horse would precieve that we were giving away our resources (food) to him. Remember, the leader controls the resources. In most all cases, I saw horses mugging their owners for treats and the owners with no clue how to handle the situation. They were just teaching their horse how to be rude, or in the worse case, how to bite! Just because I watch a trainer sucessfully do something does not mean I will be sucessful at it, no matter what dicipline said trainer is using. The newbee needs to understand herd behavior, and how the training dicipline of choice affects that behavior. Also, personality plays a big part; the horse's, and the horse owner's. That is why it is so important to find a good person/horse match. All that said, I watched a friend use clicker training for 5 years before I would even entertain the thought. My friend was wildly sucessful, and let me work with her closely a few times before I felt I was anywhere near ready to venture on my own. I decided respect was the number one goal I wanted to attain regarding the use of clicker training. I spent many hours over the course of a few months teaching my horse manners concerning his behavior toward this new "pez dispenser". With that firmly in place, I use clicker training whenever my horse (or I) seem to be having trouble with teaching/learning concepts. He goes into "try" mode quickly. After a few minutes, I can continue teaching without the clicker/treats. I do not want my horse looking at me and deciding I'm not worth bothering with if I don't have a treat. I mostly use NH, and have been working more and more at liberty in a large paddock. It seems every time I show up in the barn, it's a new game, and he greets me vocally and runs to me. It feels great. I have a long way to go, but he loves interaction and seems to think riding is some kind of gold star on his forehead! It is! :) I don't usually post, but enjoy reading everyone else's.Toni Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Training
This message is from: Gail Russell Clicker training is used to teach a critter to respond to cues with a particular behavior. However, once a behavior is trained, you do not need to click all the time. As Karen Pryor put it, the clicker is primarily for use in teaching and in doing occasional tune ups. Negative reinforcement is also used for teaching behaviors. After the behavior is taught, the cue for that behavior can come in all kinds of ways, including from tack (bits, bridles, whips). Negative reinforcement is for teaching. A horse can "have a bad day" and not respond to a cue taught with the clicker OR one taught by using negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is not the same as using tack (bits, bridles, whips) to physically manipulate a horse. The physical manipulation would be the backup plan you are talking about, and it is certainly useful in a situation where you have a large, dangerous animal, particularly in a context like driving a horse. One thing we often fail to realize is that some of what people call horse training just involves dragging a horse around with a bit...using physical manipulation and overpowering the animal. I find I am guilty myself sometimes of just dragging my horse around. That is not the same as teaching the horse to do a behavior on cue. Remember, the vaqueros used the ported bit as a "signal bit," not as a manipulator. (Sort of funny story. There is a rider who presents his horses beautifully at the Red Bluff vaquero roping exhibition/contest every year. His horses are soft and gorgeous. Just absolutely gorgeous, with no yanks on the mouth, and no heads in the air trying to avoid the bit. Last summer we went to an event to watch him and Jim took his new stop-action camera and took pics of this guy on a reining run-down. Well...this particular horse was not ready for prime time and should not have been used this way in a perfect world. The horse stopped with a gaping mouth, head in the air, and no pretty slide. Jim got a perfect picture of it. It was actually the best action shot of the day. Proves everyone can have problemsand I did have teensy little thoughts about blackmail. :)) An example of "having a back up plan" for clicker training might be in the zoo handling of elephants to care for their feet. They used to use prods exclusively, and the elephants would sometimes respond aggressively and hurt handlers. When they introduced the clicker training and food rewards, the animals were less likely to respond aggressively. However, I believe it is true that the changed technique did not mean they dispensed with safe set-ups they had available to them (like not getting the handler boxed into a corner, providing escape routes, and having tools that could be used to fend off an animal if necessary. Jesus-Rosales-Ruiz at the University of North Texas does have reservations about using negative reinforcement/aversive stimulus in the horse training context. Read down to the article about Poisoned Cues here: http://www.equineclickertraining.com/training/clickerexpo08.html However, FIRST, read this simpler explanation of poisoned cues by Alexandra Kurland. http://www.theclickercenter.com/2004/Newsletter/Feb2008.htm I have seen the poisoned cue problem in action. At one Alexandra Kurland clinic a woman vet brought her wonderful warmblood that she had trained using Parelli/Anderson methods, but had run into problems. She would crouch and direct her attention at the horse's hindquarters and have her lead rope popper ready to pop the horse on the rump to get him to disengage his hindquarters. The horse hated it, and was kicking and running off, and was dangerous whenever the vet asked for disengagement of the hindquarters. Alexandra told her to abandon that cue as it had become poisoned. Her suggestion worked, although the vet was having trouble letting go of her habit of crouching and staring at the horse's hindquarters. By the way, this horse was also clicker savvy, and exhibited some gorgeous trained behaviors where the cues had not been poisoned. It was not a "bad horse." It is worth reading lots of articles BECAUSE, once you understand the theory, you can design your own training plan and can design your own troubleshooting. It can be very creative. Finally, while googling about, I found this explanation about negative reinforcement and clicker training that is long and looks to be carefully done. http://niceorg.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/1099/ Have read only bits of it. I am supposed to be doing accounting, but cannot stand to keep at it 12 hours a day. Gail Clicker training is not 100%.? We have been at Sea World on a hot day when the Sea World shows did not go as they were supposed to.? The?trainers apologized that the animals were over?fed do to the large?crowds? and feeling warm and lazy (you buy feed and feed the seals, walruses, porpoises, etc.) and none of th
Re: Training
This message is from: Lauren Sellars I beleave the phrase you mean to say Gail is "negative removal" Or the two methods are also called "removal reinforcement" & *" reward reinforcement " Great topic going on here.and good writitng. I have recently picked up a target training :Clicker training book . Very interesting I tend to want my voice to be the click. altho a click may be more precise I am convinced that carrots make them learn much faster and try harder. Some horses don't need much of this and others really do, to perk there interest and try. Happy training to you all. Lauren Gail Russell wrote: This message is from: Gail Russell I was a little unclear in my wording. Clinton, Parelli, and most other clinicians use a release. A release is "negative reinforcement" in behavioral science. The pressure, when coupled with its removal, is the negative reinforcement. I Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Training
This message is from: Gail Russell I was a little unclear in my wording. Clinton, Parelli, and most other clinicians use a release. A release is "negative reinforcement" in behavioral science. The pressure, when coupled with its removal, is the negative reinforcement. In behavioral science terms, a negative reinforcement is anything that, when you take it away, the training subject tends to repeat whatever it was doing when you took the "thing" away(whatever it was, including taking away pressure). Intuitively, negative reinforcement is something the horse dislikes, and when you take it away, the horse says to himself, "next time they put that pressure on, I am going to do again the same thing I did when they took the pressure away...and that will make the pressure go away." Scientifically, negative reinforcement is something that you take away and whatever the horse was doing when you took it away tends to be repeated. The distinction between the two is that the scientific approach does not pretend to know what the horse was thinking. The scientific approach considers the horse's brain to be an impenetrable black box that you cannot see into...so you just have to watch what the horse is doing to draw your conclusions. A variation on the "go to people for opinions, go to horses for answers." The clicker is not a release of pressure. Normally it is used without putting on any pressure, although some people do use pressure as well because they do want the horse responding to pressure from tack. The click is a marker that says "yes" you did it right. However, the marker needs to be paired with something the horse likes (positive reinforcement) in order to get the behavior repeated. You can use a click with negative reinforcement to a certain extent, and it could be used to make up for bad timing. For example, some of the clinicians, probably including Parelli, "tap" on a horse until the horse does the wanted behavior, and then they stop when the wanted behavior is presented. The problem is that an evasive horse can get away from the tapping, and that gives the horse the wrong idea, and makes things worse. (Happens to me all the time due to bad rope handling skills.) Or, the trainer may not cease tapping at just the right moment. Then the horse gets the wrong idea. If you click at the moment the horse does the right thing, and then stop the negative reinforcement, it should still act as a yes. And it is easier to get your timing right with a tongue or mechanical click than it is to stop swinging a rope (and accurately hitting its mark) with good timing. The better reward (even if you also release pressure) is to use food. Horses are VERY highly motived by food. And, if you use food, you do not have to tap the horse. Tapping the horse can have some fallout. I will post about it later, but you should google the words: Alexandra Kurland Ven and Punir and read the article about Poisoned Cues. You should particularly read it if you are trying to rehab a badly trained horse. The essence of the article is that you get better outcomes with positive reinforcement. The other thing I should look up again if I have not already posted to the list is a youtube video of a pony that has been click/treat trained to do high school dressage movements. They appear VERY correct to me, and the pony is thrilled to be doing them without need for any whip tapping. I think it was all done on verbal cues. I hope I am being clear. Do not have time to polish really thoroughly right now. Gail This message is from: Me Kint Gail ?"most other horse trainers use negative reinforcement."? ? I'm curious as to how you define negative reinforcement.? ?I'm not familiar with "other" trainers, but I know that Clinton rewards a horse by removing pressure or the request.? It is the release that a horse learns by, whether it is clicker or release or stopping an activity.? Clicker is easier for us humans because we are sometimes not quick enough or clear enough in the release.? I know it has helped me. ?Clinton is not against clicker or the use of food as a reward.? The important thing is that you know when to reward.? Mary Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training
This message is from: Me Kint Gail "most other horse trainers use negative reinforcement." I'm curious as to how you define negative reinforcement. I'm not familiar with "other" trainers, but I know that Clinton rewards a horse by removing pressure or the request. It is the release that a horse learns by, whether it is clicker or release or stopping an activity. Clicker is easier for us humans because we are sometimes not quick enough or clear enough in the release. I know it has helped me. Clinton is not against clicker or the use of food as a reward. The important thing is that you know when to reward. Mary Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Training your horse
This message is from: Gail Russell Good quote! You need something else beyond breaking things down into "baby steps." You need to tell the horse he is right in a way the horse can understand. Clinton, Parelli, and most other horse trainers use negative reinforcement (top doing something to the horse that he does not like when he gets the right answer.) Or, if you do not have the coordination or desire to do negative thing, and stop it precisely on time, you can use a marker like a clicker and something the horse really likes (think treat, cause they are not all that motivated by praise and pats). Gail Ever the advocate of clicker training. I realized that they learn best using a step-by-step system. They’re smart creatures, but they can’t process everything at the same time. I soon realized that if I took the time to break a lesson into steps and introduced each step to the horse separately, he caught on to the lesson a lot quicker and progressed through his training at a faster rate. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.137/2617 - Release Date: 01/15/10 04:47:00 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Training your horse
This message is from: Heather Baskey When something doesn't work for me, I "separate, isolate" and "recombine". Thanks for sharing, Heather Playing Naturally with Henry http://digilass.wordpress.com This message is from: Me Kint Theyâre smart creatures, but they canât process everything at the same time. I soon realized that if I took the time to break a lesson into steps and introduced each step to the horse separately, he caught on to the lesson a lot quicker and progressed through his training at a faster rate. __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training your horse
This message is from: Me Kint Hi, I thought this information from Clinton Anderson useful and interesting.. Thought some of you might find it interesting also in working with your horses. Mary in Calif.  It wasnât until I started attending clinics and apprenticing under Australian horseman, Gordon McKinlay, that I realized that horses are just like humans â they donât learn perfectly. When you first introduce a new lesson to a horse, heâs going to get confused, frustrated and maybe even agitated or nervous. And you know what? Thatâs absolutely OK. Horses are allowed to express all of those emotions when youâre training them.. Itâs your job as a trainer to learn how to help the horse understand in the easiest way possible what you expect of him. After working with literally thousands of horses, I realized that they learn best using a step-by-step system. Theyâre smart creatures, but they canât process everything at the same time. I soon realized that if I took the time to break a lesson into steps and introduced each step to the horse separately, he caught on to the lesson a lot quicker and progressed through his training at a faster rate. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Clicker Training Project
This message is from: Toni Wow Gail, What a great youtube video! I have some experience with clicker training. I actually used it to get my horse to calm down for shots. (I was the person who wrote in about my Vet's not so patient practices during spring shots.) My mustang (who is very curious, and thinks everything goes in the mouth) was terrified of the fly spray bottle. He stands quiet now, although in Spring, he may need a refresher course. I used the fly spray bottle (full of water) as the target. When he became interested enough to put the tip in his mouth, I very gently sprayed some water into his mouth. It was a very hot day, and the pleasant look of surprise was quite amusing. He started opening his mouth and "asking" for me to "give him a drink". It set the ground work for spraying his body. I also used clicker training to get my horse to come (at liberty) to the mounting block and stand like a rock. I have a long way to go with him, and lots of "finishing", but when I'm stuck trying to teach him something - out comes the clicker training. Now that I've seen the video, I am pumped to turn my whole pasture into an obstacle course! Toni Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Clicker training
This message is from: Roger and Carol Watkins I did some clicker training with my mare Rika. She caught on to "touch the target for a click and a treat" in about 90 seconds. The most useful thing that she learned is to "stand on your mat". This task tooka few sessions to learn but I doubt she will ever forget. When I put her mat ( an old boot tray insert) down she will come up and stand on it squarely with both front feet, for which she gets a click and a treat. I can walk all around her and even leave briefly and she will not move, then I click and treat. I can touch her all over with pool noodles, broom, plastic flag etc and she will stay put for a click and a treat. The most useful application of this skill is when I am putting her back in the pasture. She stands on her mat while I remove her halter. I ask her to stand there for a few more seconds and then click and treat. I may walk around her or even walk several feet away. She stays put for a click and a treat. When the game is over, I turn my back and walk away and she knows that we are done and she walks calmly off - no bolting and bucking which can sometimes happen when you remove a horse's halter in the pasture. You must be prepared and have treats with you because it is not fair to ask for the task and not give the reward. The most recent thing that I have taught Rika (without the clicker) is to stand still about 8-10" away while I put hay in the feeder. She is not allowed to approach the feeder until I turn and face her and say "good girl" and give a "come along" signal with my hands. She was extremely bargey and had no manners when I was carrying hay. She still flattens her ears, but at least she doesnt run me over. For her, eating is very serious business. I have also used the clicker to teach her to fetch a ball and hand it to me. Not a very useful skill, but fun for me. Carol and Rika in Wisconsin Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: need training advice for picking up feet
This message is from: Sarah Clarke I'm sorry you got stick with this problem. But consider that this horse is not going to die in the next few weeks if his feet don't get picked out. I think you should concentrate on getting respect from this horse, and if possible him to have more confidence in you. If you proceed with the attitude every day of " well I'll go slow, but we need to pick out his feet today" it's going to transmit a different sense than "today the horse will mind my personal space and then I will only handle his feet to the next level he can accept". --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Rose or Murph wrote: . Anyway, come to find out when his feet are even near to being picked up he paws, almost to the point of a striking motion. We have tried rubbing his legs, treats, and STILL it makes no difference. Front legs only, have not proceeded to the back. . Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: need training advice for picking up feet
This message is from: Lola Lahr Any advice is appreciated for teaching a horse to have his feet picked up. One if the methods used with wild horses who are being gentled and introduced to picking up their feet is to take a long cotton rope (lead line thickness and 16 - 20 feet works well) and loosely tie one end around the fetlock just so it won't come off, but not too tight, pass the rope over the withers, and from the opposite side of the foot, gently lift the foot like it was being picked up for cleaning, Work in baby steps, pressure- release, so the horse doesn't panic. *Always* release pressure and start from step one, working up from there, if the horse starts getting worried. When he gets to where his foot can be held up with the rope for a reasonable length of time, introduce the human element, and have someone go through the motions of picking up the foot, pressure - release, while you raise the foot with the rops. As the horse gets better, fade the rope and increase the human touch. Does this horse need sacking out around his legs? You can use a sawdust filled glove tied to the end of a pole for that.. (another wild horse gentling trick) I was wondering if this horse has a vision problem? I feel for your friend BUT he surely doesn't strike me as ever becoming a safe horse - but then- there are those stories you read in Equus On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Rose or Murph wrote: > This message is from: "Rose or Murph" Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
training advice needed
This message is from: Carol Makosky Hi List, My Heidi is always leaning on the farrier when he works on her back feet. What simple training can I do to improve her behavior so she does not do this? -- Built Fjord Tough Carol M. On Golden Pond N. Wisconsin, Home of Heidi, The Wonder Pony Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Fjords, kids, summer, training, Fun, Celebrate the horse
This message is from: morrisshado...@aol.com Hello Everyone We still have openings in our summer camp program with many dates to choose from . Contact me if interested and I will send you the forms. We have 2 spots available for training horses (get them ready for show or evaluations) Celebrate the horse is getting closer it is the 27th and 28th of June we have a fabulous demo in the works. Come down and see us perform. Or give us a hand at the booth. Bonnie Morris 253-939-5660 www.morrisshadowmt.com The Lordie of the Fjordies thinks that he should have his own spot light and sequins (I told him they don't taste good). He was not sure what the point in going was then .( To watch the girls) He got the point! Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Winter Training News
This message is from: Heather Baskey Absolutely FANTASTIC photos and look at you, in shades and a tee!!! :-) Last weekend in Wellington County, ONTARIO (not Florida - LOL!!!) it hit minus 20 with a very bad wind chill (high gusts of wind that went right through to the bone). Just letting you know what you are missing in Wellington County, Ontario ;-) I will look forward to visiting Mogly's site often as you update it with more training photos. LOVED the alligator pic. Very neato! Have a wonderful sunny week! It's sunny here, but started the day off at minus 17.5 C Heather Playing Naturally with Henry in brisk, cold, windy - Wellington County, ON http://digilass.wordpress.com --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Lori Albrough wrote: From: Lori Albrough Subject: Winter Training News To: "Fjord Horse Mailing List" Received: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 5:36 PM This message is from: Lori Albrough Hi everyone, I know we've recently discussed the difficulties of riding through a northern winter. This year I'm getting the chance to live a dream, and train with Mogly in Wellington Florida! I've been posting some pictures on his website at http://mogly.ca/news.php Check them out! More pictures will be coming soon. Mogly will be back in Canada at the beginning of April, ready to start the breeding season. We will be offering frozen semen this year in addition to live cover, in Moorefield Ontario. Contact me for more info. Lori -- Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords Moorefield Ontario Canada mailto:l...@bluebirdlane.com Fjordhorses for Sport and Pleasure! http://bluebirdlane.com Mogly - Fjord Performance Stallion http://mogly.ca Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
RE: Winter Training News MOGLY
This message is from: Karen McCarthy Wow Lori, be careful you don't develop welts and bruises from pinching yourself too often...what a gorgeous place to ride! And Mogly, OMG! What a hunk! Can you do a 'Playmare' photo spread for all the Fjord mares...I'll post it in my barn for my girls so they can drool over him. Looks like I need to start a Mogly fund for my 3 eligible lovelies ;~)) On the freeze/thaw home front here, after living here for 2 years w/o an arena (hauling down to the local funky fairgrounds has been about it) i just came home from riding in an indoor belonging to some folks Dave shoes for. Its just 4 miles away. They are into cutting, so after our ride, Imilie and I got to watch them as they practiced cutting a radio controlled cow made out of heavy black and white nylon. Imilie really liked it - she was not scared of the cow at all, and kept trying to walk up to it and follow it! Thanks for sharing your training pics & please keep up future Mogly diary postings for us all. Karen :: Karen McCarthy :: Great Basin Fjords :: Madras, Oregon :: http://www.picturetrail.com/weegees Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Winter Training News
This message is from: Lori Albrough Hi everyone, I know we've recently discussed the difficulties of riding through a northern winter. This year I'm getting the chance to live a dream, and train with Mogly in Wellington Florida! I've been posting some pictures on his website at http://mogly.ca/news.php Check them out! More pictures will be coming soon. Mogly will be back in Canada at the beginning of April, ready to start the breeding season. We will be offering frozen semen this year in addition to live cover, in Moorefield Ontario. Contact me for more info. Lori -- Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords Moorefield Ontario Canada mailto:l...@bluebirdlane.com Fjordhorses for Sport and Pleasure! http://bluebirdlane.com Mogly - Fjord Performance Stallion http://mogly.ca Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Driving Training for Owners and Fjords-2009
This message is from: "Ursula & Brian Jensen" I believe Trinity Fjord's is up around the successful completion of 40 driving packages for owners/handlers. We offer 5 schooling Fjords and draft or carriage harness for the vehicles. The package offered is for the student and a guest auditor. There are no groups, so a participant has lots of hands on driving. As well I take outside Fjords in small amounts to train for driving in singles, pairs, or multiples. We usually book these Fjords seasonally, in spring, summer, fall, or winter. This driving training includes a turnover lesson for the owner. We have references available on the training provided for outside Fjords. We have had some bookings through to next winter, however there are still openings most seasons. If the Fjord is within one days drive from Trinity Fjord's, I can pick up and deliver for costs. Contact us for further information. Brian Jensen Ursula and Brian Jensen 1903 Trinity Valley Rd. Lumby, B.C. Canada V0E 2G4 ujen...@junction.net www.trinityfjords.com www.trinityfjords.blogspot.ca Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Horse training, Summer camps, lessons and all the fun Fjord stuff
This message is from: morrisshado...@aol.com lHello Everyone We are having a good start to the New year. Meeting many new people, both with Fjords and without Fjords (who will soon be converted to Fjords). We have some lovely youngsters for sale. We also have an opening coming up in March for training. We always have lesson times available. We are gearing up for another great spring/summer. Our camp schedule will be posted very soon. All the fur balls are starting to leave hair trails. Especially Lordalen his looks like a snow path!The little birds are loving it. Already building Fjord fur lined nest or is it hair? We have an intern from Germany and it just so happens that she is an artist. She does lovely schetches and her imdiate focus is on the Lordy of the Fjordies, so when that master piece is completed I will share its result. I was sure to get a large supply of paper and pencils for her:) Bonnie Morris and the Lord of the Fjords www.morrisshadowmt.com www.morrisshado...@aol.com 253-939-5660 Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Training Conference in Texas March 20th
This message is from: "plumg...@pon.net" This is a conference sponsored by the Orca Training Center at the Northern University of Texase. I have just registered to go on March 20th. It is probably appropriate for folks who do positive reinforcement training, or for folks who do not, but who are interested in the science of animal training...all types of animals. It is in Denton Texas, not far from the northern Texas border. One of the presenters is a master police dog trainer...doing scent discrimination, among other things. I am hoping someone else from the Fjord world might want to go. To give you an idea of the scientific basis of the work, see this link for a 15 page article on loading problem loaders. It cites Rashid, Marten, Lyons, Parelli, and others, and then has a scientifically evaluated trial of improving loading behaviors using targeting and positive reinforcement. http://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/jaba/articles/2001/jaba-34-04-0409.pdf The presenter I am interested in is the expert on microshaping behavior. ONe of the things they do is to teach the horse to contract the abdominal muscles as a way of teaching them self carriage. Here is an article about BF Skinner discovering how to shape an animal's behavior. http://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/abstracts/jeababstracts/82/_82-317.htm (Shaping a horse to do something gets the behavior REALLY solid. For example, you can shape a horse to do something like bow or pick up a foot. That behavior will be much, much more durable than using a luring technique, which is the way most people train a horse to bow.) Anyone interested in going? It appears that one will need to sign up fairly early. Here is the link. http://orgs.unt.edu/orca/ See below for more information from Alexandra Kurland. Gail Russell --- Original Message --- >From: Alexandra Kurland[ mailto:kurla...@crisny.org] Sent: 1/21/2009 8:40:10 AM To : the_click_that_teac...@yahoogroups.com Cc : Subject : FW: [the_click_that_teaches] re: Orca Conference Announcement I'm just back from the Clicker Expo with lots of interesting tidbits to digest. As always it was an exciting event, but that's not what I am posting about this morning. Instead I want to let people know about another conference I'll be participating in: The Art and the Science of Animal Training: Where are we now? Where are we going? Originally, the organizers thought about calling the conference "The Wicked Minds of Animal Training". We all rather fancied that title, but it didn't make it to the final selection. So who are the conference presenters? If you've been to the clicker Expos, you'll recognize some of the names: Bob Bailey, Kay Lawrence, Ken Ramirez, Steve White, Steve Martin, Jesus Rosales-Ruiz, and myself. I am truly honored to be included in such company. Some of you may not be familiar with all these names. Unless you have birds, Steve Martin may be someone you haven't run across yet. He developed the first free flight bird show back in 1976. He has consulted at zoological facilities all over the world. If you have seen a free flight bird show, you've seen his work. I am very excited to hear him speak. Kay Lawrence is a canine clicker trainer from the UK who is among other things a micro shaping specialist. Steve White is another canine clicker trainer who specializes in scent work and tracking. Both are well known Clicker Expo faculty members. Ken Ramirez is the VP of Animal collections and Training at Chicago's Shedd Aquarium. He has become well known at the Clicker Expos as a superb presenter. His work is always creative and inventive and helps the rest of us to think a little further out of the box. Bob Bailey, I'm sure, is a name most of you recognize. You may know him best through the chicken training camps he runs. Along with Karen Pryor, Bob Bailey is one of the great early pioneers of clicker training. Any opportunity to hear him speak should be taken advantage of. Jesus Rosales-Ruiz is a behavioral analyst from the University of North Texas. I've written many times about his work on poisoned cues. He will be chairing the conference which is being organized by his graduate students. The conference will be on March 20. Space is limited at the conference so if you are interested, you should sign up early. For more information go to: http://orgs.unt.edu/orca/ Alexandra Kurlandtheclickercenter.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages |Files |Photos |Links |Datab
training cavessons for fjords
This message is from: "Debby" Can anyone tell me where to shop for a training cavesson, that will fit over an english bridle and fit my fjords head, which aint small by any means. He's wearing a warmblood size english bridle. I don't like attaching the lunge line to the bit, and with what he is doing, it really needs to be separate, a ring on the top of the cavesson. Thanks for any help. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Driving Training Opening
This message is from: "Ursula & Brian Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Greetings; I have one fall/winter cancellation on training a fjord to Drive. If you are interested or have questions contact me privately. This is most convient for Western Canada, and the US Pacific Northwest. I will consider other interested requests. Ps-For those of you who know Ursula, she arrives home shortly from her Bucket List trip to Tuscany. Brian J Ursula and Brian Jensen Box 1032 Lumby, B.C. Canada V0E 2G0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.trinityfjords.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Horse training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Everyone We had our last schooling show and it was great success, nice turnout, only we did not see any Fjords! This fall we currently have only 2 openings left for training and would like to fill those spots with fjords!. . Currently we have a variety of training horse's in from Friesian's training for carriage to Hanoverian's for Dressage and a Walsh for jumping. We have some young fjord colts coming in to get started as well. If you would like to get a youngster started or older fella tuned up to ride or drive e-mail privately and we will be glad to get you started. Visit our web site _www.morrisshadowmt.com_ (http://www.morrisshadowmt.com) Contact Bonnie Morris 253-939-5660 The Lord of the Fjords (Ironwood Lordalen) is always happy to show you around:0) **Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001) Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Riding Training Available
This message is from: Lori Albrough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi everyone, After 10 years of training my own Fjords, last year I began offering training services to Fjord owners. I specialize in dressage and enjoy starting young horses to ride. I have shown my own Fjords successfully up to Third Level dressage and schooled the movements of Fourth Level and up. Presently I have some openings in my training roster, having had some "graduates" go home to their owners. If you are interested in dressage training for your Fjord please contact me at the email address below. Lori -- Lori Albrough Bluebird Lane Fjords R.R.#3 Moorefield Ont Canada N0G 2K0 phone: 519-638-5598 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bluebirdlane.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Cantering and proper training/ mane trim
This message is from: "Warren Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I just started taking lessons with Kaari in the Dressage style. First my daughter is working than me. I honestly don't have the skill to do it or the real interest but I am starting to now! I have found that rather than riding as though I am on the trail ( relaxed rein and body ) having the horse under me more and working off the back end it is easier to make a change. Now I don't know if I am saying this all right its the first lesson and we've been practicing since ( 4 days ). We have gotten closer to the canter than ever before. I find ( could be wrong ) that she has to be collected to even make the jump into the canter. If I don't set it up right before I ask I'm destine to fail. The question is why is it important ( yet effective ) to have contact with the mouth?? It seems to me that if the horse is right you should not be in it's mouth but relaxed not tight in the body but relaxed??? I've always been taught to " leave 'em be when they're right ". I've been told to train your horse to collect rather than hold them in. So this is rather confusing to my old brain. Maybe someone can give me some help with this. I'm not sure it won't end in a hard mouthed horse which equals less responsive right? Again new arena and old habits die hard. I just trimmed for the first time with a electric clippers! I've always done it with a scissors and find this works darn good and much faster! I find the high point on the neck ( where the natural arch is ) start there and work in a gradual decline twards the pole than to the withers. I use my hand/fingers as a guide for the leingth guage. seems to work fine. For a Fjord that has never had a electric clippers near her Kaari fell asleep!! Hastle free I love it!! Thanks, Roberta MN The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Cantering and proper training
This message is from: beth gerst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On the subject of cantering. With correct, proper training from the beginning I do believe any horse can learn to canter well and in a balanced correct frame. If we think back to the days where horses actually were free and ran in herds they all GALLOPED with one another which means there is no reason horses cannot learn to canter in a nice frame balancing the weight of the rider and their own body. Some horses will take much longer than others to learn the proper way and the rider must have an abundance of patience to get a well balanced canter done correctly. I do cringe when I see not just Fjords but other horse breeds in the show ring being run into the canter from this crazy fast trot then the horse takes off into a uncontrollable canter that looks like something out of a Thewell cartoon book. If the time is taken to correctly train the horse then the horse will easily produce a beautiful canter for the rider. I do believe that the horses confirmation will dictate how comfortable the canter will be as well as the trot on some horses. But, again correct training and teaching the horse to round his body and to balance himself will only improve all of his gaits not just the canter. The horse should be working from the hind end and not just dragging his rider from the front end which I see happen in this breed a lot. Good luck to all that are schooling the canter.give it time, patience and above all correct training from the beginning. Beth and Lex in CT. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Standing Still Training
This message is from: "Big Horn Forge Daniel Nauman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Phil's advice was superb, and well said. I have used this same method on all my horses. (Not all of them Fjords.) However; I had the same "problem" (opportunity) with my horse not wanting to stand tied when I wasn't there. I have a HUGE tree in my front yard. (My whole property is a potential training playground.) I tied my mare to the tree with enough float in the line so she wouldn't feel trapped, and went and weeded the garden. I did this for at least an hour each day, moving in and out of sight for longer periods. She was miffed at first, but could see me a distance away. She would pace back and forth on her line for a while, but eventually she became more and more content to just stand and watch traffic go by. Please understand, I'm talking about a horse who already ties, not about teaching a horse to tie. She always ground tied well, but there are times a horse needs to be tied while it's owner is not directly at it's side. It was nice and slow and gradual, and she fell into it real nice. Also, I got the garden weeded. Try to find a chore around the barn you can do where you have to disappear for a second or two at a time. Gradually build up your time away. Catch him standing nicely and reward him with a pet or a "good boy". You get the idea. Good luck. Sounds like you have a nice horse there. Toni in Wisconsin Kate Wrote: It's when I tie him and walk away that he seems to have difficulty. I suspect this is an issue of needing to increase his tolerance level. Good lord, I've created a co-dependency issue with my horse where we can't stand to be away from each otheryou'd think I'd have learned better after doing it with my kids The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Standing Still Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/3/2008 10:46:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whether you are trying to mount your horse, hitch it, work on its feet or attempting to do most anything with your horse it is important for your safety as well as your horse's safety that the horse stand relaxed and motionless when asked. Thanks Phil - I realize I may need to cut my boy some slack! He is very good about standing for saddling, mounting, and while I am on his back. We haven't driven much, but as part of a team, he is good about standing. It's when I tie him and walk away that he seems to have difficulty. I suspect this is an issue of needing to increase his tolerance level. Good lord, I've created a co-dependency issue with my horse where we can't stand to be away from each otheryou'd think I'd have learned better after doing it with my kids !!! Kate with Joe (who knows proximity is about scratching and treats) and Della (who knows standing tied quietly is all about not having to move!!) **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod000302) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Standing still training
This message is from: "Norsk Wood Works" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This message is from Phillip Odden from Northwestern Wisconsin where we are enjoying spring weather. I am responding to Kate's questions regarding helping your horse to stand still. I am happy to share my thoughts in how to get your fjord's cooperation in standing still when asked because standing still when asked is perhaps the most important thing your fjord should learn. Whether you are trying to mount your horse, hitch it, work on its feet or attempting to do most anything with your horse it is important for your safety as well as your horse's safety that the horse stand relaxed and motionless when asked. Since this is so important there are a number of things I do to reach the goal. First, a fjord with a first class disposition will be a much better candidate for a good outcome in standing still. A handler that is patient, confident, calm, and consistent in asking the horse to stand will probably have a better outcome. I believe allowing a horse to stand tied for extended periods of time is helpful. When in hand I ask the horse to stand on a loose line and calmly but firmly reposition it when it moves, back to the place I chose for it to stand originally. I tack up my horses untied with a lead line draped over my arm at first and later I leave the lead line hanging from the halter. The horse just understands that it stands still as I saddle or harness it. This is also the first step in ground tie for me. When un- hitching or to be unsaddled the horse must also stand still. If it moves one foot forward or back it is taking the first step to running away. That is the way to think of it, in my opinion. When repositioning a horse's feet to the original place you asked it to stand, the movement should be directed as much as possible forward or back and not in a circle. If the horse knows it will get to do a circle if it moves, it will move because the circle is better than standing. The horse wins, you loose. Part of standing still or not standing has to do with focus. It is important that the horse is focusing on you and what you would like the horse to do. A horse that is focusing on you the handler will be much more willing to accomplish the task at hand ( standing ) rather than thinking about what it would like to be doing. So you have to maintain the horse's attention in a firm but calm way. It is a proven fact that a horse is much more willing to stand if it is tired. So, meaningful work is a great way to get a horse to stand still. At first find a place where the horse would like to stand. If it is hot, that might be under a shade tree. If your horse stands well to be hitched and unhitched then bring it to that place where you un-hitch, ( it would think that it was time to quit ), and then after a while drive off again. When I have finished hitching a horse and am seated or when I first mount the horse I always ask it to stand to the count of 200 before I ask the horse to step off. Every Time. Yes, once the horse stops and stands make sure it is your idea when to move again. For this you need to 'read' your horse and ask it to step off just before it can't take standing any longer. Work to increase this period of time. If you have relatively demanding physical work for your horse to do it will naturally learn to take a welcomed rest when it gets the chance. Meaningful work isn't a bad thing. Meaningful work is a blessing. Getting a horse to stand still when asked is a skill that I work on every time I handle the animal because it is so very important. I am sure nearly everyone has their own method in training this skill. Certainly there may be better ways to accomplish the goal. I am only offering some methods to consider. Respectfully, Phillip Odden The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Spring Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phil, is there any particular approach you use for handling a horse unwilling to stand still? I've been gradually increasing the time I ask Joe to stand, since has about a 5 minute tolerance. And since he's been lamed for a month, practicing our standing seems to be a good interim activity. I'd like to find a way to rig a highline for this, but can't find a good place in our farm area to use. Kate <> **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod000302) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: On-lead training
This message is from: Linda Lottie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> oh dear, the horse is scarry. Maybe he should be confined to a smaller turnout by himself for a time. He seems rather herd bound (rushing to his buddy) . Also, if he is dangerous to lead to his pen.again, putting him in a seperate turnout would calm things. Seems he has had some tough handling.and that can be hard to fix. Personally, I like ground work and working with horses that want to do things their way. I enjoy watching their brain accept me as leader. This guy with his biting at the halter, striking, rearing...all totally not acceptable..back to the very beginning with him. No treats.get a halter that fits well..and get rid of some of his energy.whew! LJBL in WI > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: RE: On-lead training > Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:35:48 -0800 > > This message is from: "Gail Russell" > > Now when they get insecure or crazy I get them AWAY from me, not closer. > When I lead them out of the trailer and I see them looking away from me, > eyes wide, head up, ears up, I yo-yo them away from me and only let them > back close to me, their herd, when their head lowers and I have their > attention. > > Apropro of our discussions: > > I just got back from holding a friend's off the track TB for the farrier. > It was an interesting experience...and one that makes me concur mightily > with the "get them away from you" approach to handling a crisis. > > I went to get this horse out of the pasture. I put his rope halter on him > at the gate to the arena, which I planned to cross . He was fairly quiet > while I put it on, but seemed to be wanting to bite at the halter, his > chest, and sometimes my hands while I did it. > > In the course of getting the halter on, I got it quite loose...down over the > end of his nose. That turned out to be a problem. > > I brought the horse thru the gatewhich he went thru a little too > quicklycertainly not with total respect. > > As soon as he got through the gate, he started having a complete tantrum > about the halter being too low on his nose. I threw a rope loop at him to > back him off, as he was starting to strike with his foot (more at the halter > than at me) and to rear up. I had seen this happen before when this horse > was denied what he wanted (my friend has been working with him and working > on respect, but has been having problems with what appear to be hindgut > ulcers complicating his behavior...you never know whether you are "talking > to the horse" or "talking to the ulcers.") > > The horse was putting his forehead down in the sand arena, trying to rub the > nose loop of the halter off. It was loose enough that it went over his > nose, which is a good thing. By this time I had decided to let the lead go > rather than get into a pulling match with a crazed horse that was going up > and striking. Now he had the halter around his neck, with the lead rope > dangling. Having the loop off his nose made him a bit happier, and I was > able to get the halter off him entirely. > > After that he began bucking, rearing, pawing frantically and rolling > repeatedly. I began to worry that he was actually colicking, it was that > frantic. He would paw HARD, bend all four legs, and almost go down, then > collect under himself and jump UP, all four legs off the ground. I just let > him do it while I waited for the farrier to ask her if she thought we should > call a vet. > > Finally he quit, and went over to the fence where a buddy was standing. He > then began pawing the ground there, HARD. I went in and got between him and > his buddy and backed him off from the hole he was digging. AT that point he > started to soften, and chew a bit. > > In the end, I put his halter on, we did his feet and all was well until I > got him back to the gate. You could see that, as he walked back to the gate > back to his pasture, he started to get a feeling that he was entitled to > take over again. If he had been my horse, I would probably have released > him then and round penned him in the arena. I didn't because I did not > particularly want to risk my body, (and the farrier was waiting), and > because I had no such permission. > > This is a horse that my friend has done a lot with to try to teach him > respect. However, the respect only comes in certain contexts. In other > contexts he feels like he CAN (or possibly MUST) try to kill anyone who > tries to thwart his takeover). When he settles down, he settles right into > the soft, licking and chewing behavior of a
RE: On-lead training
This message is from: "Gail Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Now when they get insecure or crazy I get them AWAY from me, not closer. When I lead them out of the trailer and I see them looking away from me, eyes wide, head up, ears up, I yo-yo them away from me and only let them back close to me, their herd, when their head lowers and I have their attention. Apropro of our discussions: I just got back from holding a friend's off the track TB for the farrier. It was an interesting experience...and one that makes me concur mightily with the "get them away from you" approach to handling a crisis. I went to get this horse out of the pasture. I put his rope halter on him at the gate to the arena, which I planned to cross . He was fairly quiet while I put it on, but seemed to be wanting to bite at the halter, his chest, and sometimes my hands while I did it. In the course of getting the halter on, I got it quite loose...down over the end of his nose. That turned out to be a problem. I brought the horse thru the gatewhich he went thru a little too quicklycertainly not with total respect. As soon as he got through the gate, he started having a complete tantrum about the halter being too low on his nose. I threw a rope loop at him to back him off, as he was starting to strike with his foot (more at the halter than at me) and to rear up. I had seen this happen before when this horse was denied what he wanted (my friend has been working with him and working on respect, but has been having problems with what appear to be hindgut ulcers complicating his behavior...you never know whether you are "talking to the horse" or "talking to the ulcers.") The horse was putting his forehead down in the sand arena, trying to rub the nose loop of the halter off. It was loose enough that it went over his nose, which is a good thing. By this time I had decided to let the lead go rather than get into a pulling match with a crazed horse that was going up and striking. Now he had the halter around his neck, with the lead rope dangling. Having the loop off his nose made him a bit happier, and I was able to get the halter off him entirely. After that he began bucking, rearing, pawing frantically and rolling repeatedly. I began to worry that he was actually colicking, it was that frantic. He would paw HARD, bend all four legs, and almost go down, then collect under himself and jump UP, all four legs off the ground. I just let him do it while I waited for the farrier to ask her if she thought we should call a vet. Finally he quit, and went over to the fence where a buddy was standing. He then began pawing the ground there, HARD. I went in and got between him and his buddy and backed him off from the hole he was digging. AT that point he started to soften, and chew a bit. In the end, I put his halter on, we did his feet and all was well until I got him back to the gate. You could see that, as he walked back to the gate back to his pasture, he started to get a feeling that he was entitled to take over again. If he had been my horse, I would probably have released him then and round penned him in the arena. I didn't because I did not particularly want to risk my body, (and the farrier was waiting), and because I had no such permission. This is a horse that my friend has done a lot with to try to teach him respect. However, the respect only comes in certain contexts. In other contexts he feels like he CAN (or possibly MUST) try to kill anyone who tries to thwart his takeover). When he settles down, he settles right into the soft, licking and chewing behavior of a freshly roundpenned horse. Insofar as he goes this far, my friend can say that she has him well-trained. But if things are not going his way in certain contexts, he is VERY hard to deal with. If he were mine, I think I might try to teach him several alternative behaviors with the clicker that I might be able to get from him in situations where he wants to take over. Since many of his behaviors only occur outside a round pen, and since they tend to be life threatening to the handler, and since he seems to have a genuine sensitivity to being hurt/touched by halters and ropesit seems to me that teaching him to do things with the clicker would let him continue to think he is in control and possibly control HIM without inducing dangerous tantrums. This is the first time I have worked with a horse that I considered to be dangerous. It was not fun. Gail The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
On-lead training
This message is from: "Steve Sessoms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Something that hasn't been discussed much on this list is proper handling when your horse is on lead. I am a big believer in the training halters with the big snap for 'bite' when needed, although I am not nearly strong enough to match a right-brained horses energy with one. They help immensely in most situations when I am savvy enough to nip a problem in the bud. If their leader isn't worried, a horse shouldn't be worried either. I think that when they act up in strange places it is a clue as to who they think is boss atm. If they aren't matching your calmness, they are thinking they are boss and the herd needs to head back home. Something I used to do whenever my horses went right-brained was to hang onto their halter or the lead under their chin or put a chain across their nose - all wrong. Now when they get insecure or crazy I get them AWAY from me, not closer. When I lead them out of the trailer and I see them looking away from me, eyes wide, head up, ears up, I yo-yo them away from me and only let them back close to me, their herd, when their head lowers and I have their attention. Sometimes I have them play a few games until they calm down. If they aren't too dangerous, get them busy, get their mind on you. Or if they are really crazy, just make them stand still, at a good distance from you, until they calm down. Then reward them by letting them come back into the herd. Meredith Sessoms Moulton AL USA The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Lisa's Post on Driving Training
This message is from: "Gail Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I wanted to be sure to thank Lisa for her post on driving safety and training. I vividly remember her posts from several years ago, and have always appreciated them. One thing that stuck in my mind that she did not repeat this time is her stories of touring her Norcal neighborhood on garbage pickup day, with clanging garbage cans being hoisted overhead into garbage trucks. Seems to me she even assigned people to jump out OF garbage cans..or at least clang the lids.something like that. (There IS a reason I have not volunteered to be her assistant!). This last post had some great suggestions. I have a trained to drive horse that is inclined toward spookiness (he shys and looks at things like an Arab sometimes). He is very rusty now. After Lisa's post, I will be MUCH more thorough about redoing his training before trying to drive him again. And, Lisa reminded me, as I said, that the "pull to a stop" technique cannot be relied upon. A stop has to come out of obedience, not force in order to be safe. Sure, force will stop a horse sometimes, but it should not be relied upon. If anyone missed Lisa's post..please find it and read it. I almost did not see it. Gail The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Winter Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Great post, and amazing photos. You are clearly made of sterner stuff - I can't imagine getting out there in that snow and working that hard! Kate with Della and Joe * In a message dated 1/1/2008 4:52:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Else has posted some new photos from the last days of training and fun to our web site www.norskwoodworks.com **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: Winter training
This message is from: "Clinton Nesseth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Phil, What a great email! The pictures on the website are fabulous. We just got back from a trip down the driveway with Odin. He was doing real well. Crysten did a nice pivot turn right in the middle of the driveway to head us back to the house. It sure is cold out though, so she just made a few trips. It sounds like one more day of cold and then the weather will be warmer. Wish Ole a great J-term from me. There is loud music coming from our garage today! They are a true "garage band!" I offered them the house, but they like the atmosphere of the propane heater warmed up garage. Connie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Norsk Wood Works Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 1:15 PM To: Fjord Digest Subject: Winter training This message is from: "Norsk Wood Works" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This message is from Phillip Odden in Northwestern Wisconsin where the new year has dawned with a bright sun illuminating a fluffy winter landscape and 5 below zero. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Winter training
This message is from: "Norsk Wood Works" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This message is from Phillip Odden in Northwestern Wisconsin where the new year has dawned with a bright sun illuminating a fluffy winter landscape and 5 below zero. Five below is a little cold for me to train horses but I don't feel too bad because I am right on track with my winter training program. In a couple days it will be in the 20s and 30s and that will be just great. During the last weeks we have received about 16-20 inches of snow. Prior to that time I was preparing three horses that have not been driven yet by doing ground work and by promoting solid ground manners and building respect and trust in my horses as individuals and as a herd. The idea of having a herd of horses, in a herd situation, with a culture of respect and trust seems to be more important here these days. It is important that they all know where I stand in the herd. It is also important for them to know that they are safe with me when they are away from the herd and that we will take care of each other when we are out in the woods or off on an adventure. Even though I now have an indoor arena that measures 72 by 160, I haven't been using it much since we have the snow. I have four sleighs lined up outside. Two bob-sleds. One with a high pole the other with a padded low pole. I have a single runner box sleigh with carved horses heads and carved dragons above the sleigh runners. These are set up for driving pairs. My Norwegian sleigh is set up for the Norwegian harness that can be switched from horse to horse quickly to save time. It is also a little safer when it comes to hitching green horses because one stands at the front of the horse when hitching rather than at the back of the horse. With all the snow the sleighs pull a little heavier. Each step and every step requires that the horses are pulling. Even when the sleigh is going down hill there is resistance in the deeper snow. Now if the horses are unwilling to go where I ask them to go, in the track, the pulling gets considerably heavier outside the track and they are much more willing to walk and trot where I ask them to go, down the track. Even though the work is hard, they understand that I am taking care of them by keeping them in the track. Eventually I will ask them to get out of the track to pull hard in the deeper softer snow. It seems that horses have a very good understanding of fairness and they are certainly willing to hold up their side of the deal, if you give them a chance. As they are getting more and more conditioned they are better able to deal with the deeper snow. They learn to use themselves. That is to say they learn to get their front legs out in front and they learn to get their back legs up and under themselves. They learn to pick up their feet and not drag them. It is much more work to drag their feet in the snow. If by chance they might decide to get crazy, the soft snow is a good place to work a horse in a safe place until it's attitude reaches a healthy equilibrium. Going around in circles and corners in the indoor is helpful in many aspects but the variation with outdoor work is also quite helpful I think. Also since we use wood to heat our house we need to drag a few logs and the horses need to stand still while I load the wood on the sleighs. They also need to pull, now heavier, loads home from the woods. My feeling is that these horses only a generation ago were used to do meaningful work in the outdoors. When they went to the woods or to the fields to assist the farmer they didn't just work for an hour and then hang it up. Our horses are capable working for several hours. It seems to me that the winter sleigh work is a good foundation for the dressage work both ridden and driven. Hard steady work conditions their bodies and it conditions their minds. It builds trust and a healthy sense of accomplishment. Then whether you want to take the horse on a trail ride or take him to a horse show he is much more willing to be a willing partner. And that is a lot of fun. At our farm winter is the most important part of the show season. Now is when we build the foundation. Else has posted some new photos from the last days of training and fun to our web site www.norskwoodworks.com Go to the fjord horse part of our web site and then to the gallery page. I also have a couple good ones for sale for anyone interested. Good Luck in 2008. Phil The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: training a Fjord horse - back to basics
This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: training a Fjord horse - back to basics Excellent post Yasmine, good job. Sometimes we have to go back to basic's to go forward. I'll bet that you don't have any bit problems with your horses. And -40C is the same as -40F in the conversion. = COLD Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, CA. For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: training a Fjord horse - back to basics
This message is from: Dianne White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That was hilarious! thanks for brightening the day. - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
training a Fjord horse - back to basics
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Master : OK Abby, I have been reading lots and I figure we have to start with basics to improve you skills and responsivness Horse : (mumbling)is there something wrong with my responsiveness??? Master : Now, you have to learn to give to pressure...so when I pull the rope on the right side of your halter you have to give to pressure and turn you head...pretty simple... Horse : I moved all 4 feet and you still don't seem content? Master : Just the head, Abby Horse : O I get it, when you stand all stiff for no reason near my shoulder you want mme to turn my head and sniff you, how smart ! Master : Abby, you sure turned you head but you did it BEFORE I put any pressure Horse : Since I figured it out, why should I wait to get pressure on my halter to turn my head, you don't expect me to play dumb, do you? Master : OK, let's move on Horse : I did not get under the impression that we moved much yet... Master : When I push behind your girth you are to move you hindquarters Horse : Did you ever notice that I have been doing this for years when you were riding me? Oh well, if it makes you happy. So now when you look at my hip I have to move it. I am very patient, I can do that for you... Master : Abby, I did not ask for anything, why on earth are your moving you hips ? Horse : You were thinking of asking Master : That's not true Horse : (raising her head) You looked at my hips in a predatory way ! Master : Liar, I never look at you in a predatory way ! Horse : Maybe, but you have to admit that you were going to ask, I am just fast to answer...I thought this was about improving my responsiveness ? You know what, Master, maybe, with all due respect, you should try something easier for you like endurance... then you can just sit, relax, enjoy the lanscape and I will take care of everything, what do you think ? Master : (getting feisty) What you are saying is that horse trainers that have worked on this for 1000 years are to dumb for you smart Fjord Horse, and this obviously includes me... Horse : You said itcan I go eat now, if nothing more exciting is going to happen ? Extract for the diary "Training Abby" Take care all and have a Happy Holiday Yasmine (freezing with her Fjord horses in the Yukon, -40 this morning) www.nfyukon.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Training room
This message is from: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello There, Anyone in the Southern Oregon area that needs to have horses trained for driving, Amy Evers has a few spaces available at our barn this winter. Contact Amy Evers at [EMAIL PROTECTED] . We have a 200x100 indoor arena that she trains in. We have all the equipment and miles of trails for trail driving. Horses in training stay in our luxurious 12 x 24 paddock indoor stalls with care twice a day in addition to the trainer's lesson times. All feed and supplements are provided with full care boarding. Why not have your horses in training during the wet soggy months when they just stand in the mud and are not being used? Contact Amy directly. I am sure she will fill her books soon! Catherine Lassesen, owner Hestehaven - "The Horse Garden" & Hundehaven - "The Dog Heaven" www.hestehaven.com / [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-541-825-3027 Southern Oregon The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Gal looking for training cart
This message is from: "Gayle Ware" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: "fjordhorse-digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 7:27 AM Subject: fjordhorse-digest V2007 #231 I had a gal stop by my barn this weekend from the Seattle area. She is looking for a training cart for her 2 year old Fjord. Her name is Denay Love. If anyone has one for sale, she can be contacted at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Her phone number is 206-427-9502. Gayle Ware Field of Dreams Eugene, OR www.fjordhorse.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Training for Balance
This message is from: "Olivia Farm, Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello from Olivia Farm, The post about balance caught my attention and I wanted to write back about how we prefer to train for balance and getting horses, who are naturally one sided, to stretch out their short side. If you have the opportunity to start from a weanling, leading from both sides can encourage the youngster to bend towards you on both sides and limit the amount of one-sided-ness they develop as mature horses. This also goes for desensitizing, tacking, and all ground work. Working from both sides of the horse evenly makes them much more flexible (mentally as well) and makes training for the longe 100% easier. With a mature horse I cannot stress enough the wonders that can be attained with proper longe work. With the use of sliding or fixed side reins (and an experienced handler) you can encourage the horse to bend to the inside, give to the bit, build correct muscling across the top-line, work on fore/aft balance, and improve collection. We affix the longe line so that it runs from the saddle or surcingle, through the bit, and to our hands - by asking the horse to move his/her haunches out, you can teach the horse to work in a "shoulder in" position and encourage full body flexion. Under saddle there are many exercises that can improve bend; shoulder-in, haunches-in, circles, spirals, lateral work (leg yields, half-pass, etc). These can all be performed at the walk, trot, or canter, depending on the level of training. From the ground there are various stretching techniques - asking a horse to turn it's neck towards it's flank, put it's head between it's knees, etc. Also, it might be prudent to have a very "stiff" horse checked by a vet or horse chiropractor. The one thing to remember is balance the stiff-side work with work on the other side. It has happened that a horse can "switch" stiff sides, and then you get to start all over! Happy training! Solveig Watanabe Olivia Farm www.oliviafarm.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Clicker Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey Kate, You sound like my kind of horseperson. Riding is fun, but there is s much more you can do with a horse. Too bad they can't come in the house. Sharon Abbott ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Clicker Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <> A lot of trainers discourage using clickers with horses because they believe it will lead to grabby, nippy horses. If you are doing it correctly, and consistently, it actually can cure grabby nippy horses by teaching them that only polite, waiting horses get a treat. Grabbing for a reward does NOT get it! I use clicker training a couple of times a week unless I have lost all my clickers, like I have now. I should be able to train them to a voice click, but haven't focused on that - once the rains start (are you listening weather gods??), I tend to do more clicker work because I am inside. Joe is a smart, smart horse, and I have never seen him learn anything the way he does the clickering! Within a few sessions he was putting his nose on whatever I pointed to, following a target as I walked or moved it around, doing a simple bow (not a knee to the ground, just a head between the knees), dropping his head, and we had just started retrieving when I lost my clickers. It works great in conjunction with other training methods, or alone. Because of my portly pals, I usually break up their yummy supplements into little bits and use those as rewards, or small carrot bits. There is a great series of videos on a lady who is using clicker training only to raise up a foal _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Uo6SmtVtE_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Uo6SmtVtE) _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLDbkFaVXh8_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLDbkFaVXh8) There are so many fun things to do with the ponies, my biggest challenge is trying to decide what to do every day - riding, ground work, clicking, grooming, chilling. No wonder I can't get around to driving - not enough hours in the day! Kate and Joe and Della (who wholeheartedly endorse the concept of training with treats!) ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Great Training
This message is from: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello All! It is great to hear all the news from Moses Lake While our farm had planned to go, I was subpoenaed for court. :-( Thus had to cancel all plans in going to Moses Lake. Anyway we stayed home and played with our horses one is named STJERNA and she is a Døle Horse. I co-own this filly with a friend and we made training arrangements as to who and when prior to actually purchasing her Stjerna went to Brian Jensen for driving training He just trained her for us this summer. Stjerna went up to the Jensens farm in May and came home at the beginning of August. Brian did an excellent job with her. She is a trotter by nature and Brian warned us that she was forward. He was able to instill respect for her handlers in that short time, respect for the cart, traffic, and the easy of a light mouth WOW, it was fun to work her both in the arena and on the road. Thank you Brian for the great training! Catherine Lassesen Hestehaven - "The Horse Garden" & Hundehaven - "The Dog Heaven" www.hestehaven.com / [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-541-825-3027 Southern Oregon The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Dressage whip for training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Your horse may need an adjustment period if you have been using a crop or different type of whip as the dressage whip can sting. (Use it on yourself a little to get the feel of the amount of force you want to apply.) I find the dressage whip to be a great aid and once you develop a feel for its use it can apply a reminder from "didn't you hear me ask?" to "MOVE NOW" ] Sarah, I am really glad you told me about the dressage whip stinging. I said I didn't know much about dressage. I could have caused a mess! I intend to use it to work with my sweet, but sluggish, Fjord. Thanks to your comment, I know to take it easy or use another type of encouragement. Linda ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Dressage whip for training
This message is from: Sarah Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If you are not going to show it doesn't matter the exact length. If you show it needs to be under 40". It also depends on your height, plus the size of the horse you are riding. Too long and you will end up tickling the horse in the flank. The main advantage of the dressage whip is that you can give a tap behind the leg while still keeping contact with the mouth. I have seen them for under $10.00, so there is no need to modify something else. Your horse may need an adjustment period if you have been using a crop or different type of whip as the dressage whip can sting. (Use it on yourself a little to get the feel of the amount of force you want to apply.) I find the dressage whip to be a great aid and once you develop a feel for its use it can apply a reminder from "didn't you hear me ask?" to "MOVE NOW" Sarah - 25 miles east of San Diego - HOT HOT HOT today [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can someone recommend the appropriate length for a dressage whip that will be used in training to give taps behind the rider's leg? I have seen various lengths like 42" and 39." I ride Western and am not familiar with English tack. Does it really matter? Would the popular white training sticks minus the string or flag work as well? I like the idea of the long, slender, lighter weight dressage whip. Thank you. Linda ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Dressage whip for training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can someone recommend the appropriate length for a dressage whip that will be used in training to give taps behind the rider's leg? I have seen various lengths like 42" and 39." I ride Western and am not familiar with English tack. Does it really matter? Would the popular white training sticks minus the string or flag work as well? I like the idea of the long, slender, lighter weight dressage whip. Thank you. Linda ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
gut feelings in training...
This message is from: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello Everyone! I too love books and videos. I encourage my clients to purchase videos on the events they want to do. I think it mentally prepares a student to try new things. I still believe the best method is to learn all you can, take what methods that you feel are best and then go do. I agree with Pat. that all the books and videos in the world do not substitute for just plain time with the horse. The horse will be your teacher if you let him. (or her) The 100 + foals I have handled through the years (not all fjords) have taught me more than any book. but I am glad I had some books in the beginning. The best thing about a video or book... you can stop it and rewind. and catch the full detail. Catherine Lassesen Hestehaven - The Horse Garden www.hestehaven.com / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Southern Oregon Foaling Fun Video now available. :-) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Re training videos, and the Yukon
This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Bonnie, Yes, I would still recommend him. He is teaching basic dressage from step one. He is teaching plain simple basics. So, if . later on,you want to be a reiner, or, do more advanced dressage, or drive your horse, , or what ever.your horse, and you, will have the basics. Bonnie, you might have an advantage over others, in the fact that you did bareback riding. But your new horse will need to learn balance, carrying a saddle, or, harness, not to mention the correct muscle development. As for driving books, there are a bunch out there. I would suggest the 2 books by Chris, these are basic knowledge, good for riding, or driving. Also the long lining video. Then I would suggest you get someone to help you with the driving. There are a lot of good trainers close to you. It's only 106 here today, feels cool, compared to 4 days of 118 degrees. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:39 AM Subject: Re: Re training videos, and the Yukon This message is from: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jerry et al, I too am looking for some instruction on dressage. Would you still recommend Chris Irwin for some one who knows nothing about dressage? I have been riding all my life but only bareback with my own horses. I have never had formal instruction. I used to love to gallop with no hands (or saddle) like that scene in the movie The Black Stallion. I will be starting a young fjord soon and want to learn to ride correctly and understand the reasons behind things. And I will need a saddle I suppose. I would eventually like to compete in CDEs but would also like to try competing in dressage. What book might you and others recommend for training a driving horse? Thanks, Bonnie in CA--110 degrees For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: Re training videos, and the Yukon
This message is from: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jerry et al, I too am looking for some instruction on dressage. Would you still recommend Chris Irwin for some one who knows nothing about dressage? I have been riding all my life but only bareback with my own horses. I have never had formal instruction. I used to love to gallop with no hands (or saddle) like that scene in the movie The Black Stallion. I will be starting a young fjord soon and want to learn to ride correctly and understand the reasons behind things. And I will need a saddle I suppose. I would eventually like to compete in CDEs but would also like to try competing in dressage. What book might you and others recommend for training a driving horse? Thanks, Bonnie in CA--110 degrees - Original Message - From: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re training videos, and the Yukon This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Yasmine, - Original Message - From: "Nature Friends Outdoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: can you recommend good training books, DVD This message is from: "Nature Friends Outdoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everybody ! First thank you to all that answered my concerns about Stormy's hoofs. I was foolish to worry. I guess I have been reading too much about fat fjords and founder... :-) Hi Yasmine, It was not a foolish question, I went through the same thing many a year ago. I have been wanting to say that you live in what I consider the most beautiful part of the world, the Yukon. I have driven, and ,or flown the Alaska hiway 30 times. When we lived in Alaska, we would go to Dawson City about this time of the year. There used to be a pair of Fjord geldings, that pulled a 10 passenger surrey for the Summer tourists. [Dawson City was a big gold mining town in the early 1900's, and has been preserved] The driver sat in front in a single seat. I'll never forget this turnout. One pony was close to 15h, and the other was around 13h. The little guy had a trot to die for, so he did all the work. The big guy never learned to trot, so he cantered. It was a sight to see and hear, 8 hooves, they never were in step. The driver was absolutely the funniest person that I have ever met. The tour took about 30 minutes, with several stops, and the driver explaining the history, like the famous English poet, Robert Service's house, the head madams place of business, and etc. The horses, know the procedure, there was little or, no commands given. They would make their stops, and when the driver was through giving his commentary,they were off in a fast trot/canter, to the next stop. No bun bag was needed, as the horses always did their thing at stop number 2. At the end of the day, the driver would go back to stop number 2, and load the neatly piled manure in his rig. As for training videos. I would highly recommend, Chris Irwin. I do not receive any money or freebies from him for saying this. I have met him and his wife, talked to them for a long time, when he was giving a demo., in Southern Ca. this Spring. And, you know, his place is South/ East of you in Alberta. And, he also is a Canadian.[which is good] The reason that I recommend him is he is the only trainer [that I know of] that uses, and goes into detail about TIMING, balance, and rhythm, He does not carry a bunch of junk with him, like white poles with red flags. Or ride with a lariat on his saddle, and wear a big western hat. [In fact he wears a helmet]His site is http://www.chrisirwin.com/intro.html I would suggest the 2 books that you can get at www.Amazon.com for about 20 dollars. Horses don't Lie, and Dancing with your Dark Horse. And the video , you will have to buy from Chris . "Ride the Wave " I also have " The Lost Art of Long Lines" they are excellent. Also, if there are any trainers still reading this, if you are not teaching timing the Ride the Wave video ,will tell you how. Good timing, rhythm, and balance will improve your dressage scores a bunch. And Yasmine, you mentioned that you are not a bit changer, this tells me that you understand what a bit is for. So many riders/drivers/trainers, etc. think that the bit is for STOPPING and for changing directionThis thinking is wrong in my opinion, there is a lot more to it. I hope your geldings leg is better and not something permanant.. Horses, can be very mean to each other, and a kick in the right spot can do damage. Keep us posted please. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re training videos, and the Yukon
This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Yasmine, - Original Message - From: "Nature Friends Outdoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: can you recommend good training books, DVD This message is from: "Nature Friends Outdoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everybody ! First thank you to all that answered my concerns about Stormy's hoofs. I was foolish to worry. I guess I have been reading too much about fat fjords and founder... :-) Hi Yasmine, It was not a foolish question, I went through the same thing many a year ago. I have been wanting to say that you live in what I consider the most beautiful part of the world, the Yukon. I have driven, and ,or flown the Alaska hiway 30 times. When we lived in Alaska, we would go to Dawson City about this time of the year. There used to be a pair of Fjord geldings, that pulled a 10 passenger surrey for the Summer tourists. [Dawson City was a big gold mining town in the early 1900's, and has been preserved] The driver sat in front in a single seat. I'll never forget this turnout. One pony was close to 15h, and the other was around 13h. The little guy had a trot to die for, so he did all the work. The big guy never learned to trot, so he cantered. It was a sight to see and hear, 8 hooves, they never were in step. The driver was absolutely the funniest person that I have ever met. The tour took about 30 minutes, with several stops, and the driver explaining the history, like the famous English poet, Robert Service's house, the head madams place of business, and etc. The horses, know the procedure, there was little or, no commands given. They would make their stops, and when the driver was through giving his commentary,they were off in a fast trot/canter, to the next stop. No bun bag was needed, as the horses always did their thing at stop number 2. At the end of the day, the driver would go back to stop number 2, and load the neatly piled manure in his rig. As for training videos. I would highly recommend, Chris Irwin. I do not receive any money or freebies from him for saying this. I have met him and his wife, talked to them for a long time, when he was giving a demo., in Southern Ca. this Spring. And, you know, his place is South/ East of you in Alberta. And, he also is a Canadian.[which is good] The reason that I recommend him is he is the only trainer [that I know of] that uses, and goes into detail about TIMING, balance, and rhythm, He does not carry a bunch of junk with him, like white poles with red flags. Or ride with a lariat on his saddle, and wear a big western hat. [In fact he wears a helmet]His site is http://www.chrisirwin.com/intro.html I would suggest the 2 books that you can get at www.Amazon.com for about 20 dollars. Horses don't Lie, and Dancing with your Dark Horse. And the video , you will have to buy from Chris . "Ride the Wave " I also have " The Lost Art of Long Lines" they are excellent. Also, if there are any trainers still reading this, if you are not teaching timing the Ride the Wave video ,will tell you how. Good timing, rhythm, and balance will improve your dressage scores a bunch. And Yasmine, you mentioned that you are not a bit changer, this tells me that you understand what a bit is for. So many riders/drivers/trainers, etc. think that the bit is for STOPPING and for changing directionThis thinking is wrong in my opinion, there is a lot more to it. I hope your geldings leg is better and not something permanant.. Horses, can be very mean to each other, and a kick in the right spot can do damage. Keep us posted please. Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca. For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services! The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: can you recommend good training books, DVD
This message is from: "Gail Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jerry Friz and Jean Ernest have converted me to the Chris Irwin video tapes and online material. Ride the Wave is REALLY good. Better than many, many private dressage lessons. Gail The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: can you recommend good training books, DVD
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Yasmine I am a very avid dressage fan and love that style of riding and training. One of my favorite teachers has been Arthur Kottas.He is the Chief Rider of the Spanish Riding School of Vienna. He has put out a series of tapes called the art of Classical Dressage with Arthur Kottas. You can find them on the Internet. Some times I see a set on e-bay. There are 10 or so tapes. He is very knowledgeable . Good Luck Bonnie Morris ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
can you recommend good training books, DVD
This message is from: "Nature Friends Outdoor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everybody ! First thank you to all that answered my concerns about Stormy's hoofs. I was foolish to worry. I guess I have been reading too much about fat fjords and founder... :-) I was wondering if you could recommend good training books or DVD. I ride english (mainly I don't change bits or go through bosal training but other than that I could use wester techniques, nothing against it) and my mare is doing well. She is very responsive, leg yields beautifully and I can steer her in difficult terrain just with my legs. But from inexperience, I never taught her to disengage hindquarter etc...and I would like to bring her to the next level (collection, more rythm) As some of you know, I live in such a remote area that I have no access to a trainer and I was wondering if you could recommend books or better DVD that could help me with my training. I mean really detailed stuff with progressive exercise that I can really use. Thanks in advance ! Take care! Yasmine Djabri (Nature Friends Outdoor Adventures ; www.nfyukon.com) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Training Contracts & Arena Panelling
This message is from: "Joan **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm really excited today because I am going to have a dressage trainer come to my farm 3 days a week to ride my 4 yr old fjord gelding! I can't wait! I will let her ride my gelding for a cou;le of months, and then I will start lessons on him. I have two questions today. My first is does anyone have a training contract for use when the trainer comes onto my property to work? My second question, is unrelated, about arenas. My arena has fiberglass panels all the way around near the top to let in light. The panels are the wavy type. Anyways, some of them are broken and I priced replacements and they are $25 for an 8 foot panel. That would add up really quickly. Any suggestions on something else I could use that is less expensive, that would let in light but keep out the wind and rain/snow? Thanks everyone for all help and suggestions offered. Best wishes, Joan _ Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before. Get a better look now. www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA148 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
temperment & training.
This message is from: Lauren Sellars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I am so happy you are enjoying Farra. I just got home from a great ride on her Mom. Chardonnay is so beautiful too. If I only had the time to get her evaluated! Summers are so busy here the cherries are just about to start so we are enjoying the horse time. I think we road everyday this last week,and the week before, yesterday was a 6 hour ride.When we got off the mountain the wind picked up to wicked gusts and rain that felt like hail it was so hard. the harder it got the louder my daughter Sylvia would sing, the horses were perfect and we made it home exhausted with big smiles on our faces. I have been doing lots of ponying youngsters all around, the mountain, up town, wherever. I think it makes them much safer when the riding starts and even after the riding starts It is a great way to introduce them to something new. We live way out side town so for them to go to town is really new stuff . The mowers and dogs people truck trailers what a great introduction to chaos surrounded by two good steady horses. Fjords are the best part of our days.Quality family time always something to laugh about Enjoy all Lauren www.fjordhorse.net The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Wonderful Fjords in Training
This message is from: "kelly MacDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Everyone, I wanted to share a bit of news about the two Fjords that arrived at my farm last week for training. The horses came from PEI, and travelled exceptionally well. Upon arrival they acted like they have been here forever. They were very attached to one another, so as long as they were together they were content. The gelding, 12 yr. old Teigar (Tamer Tuff x Eider/Hejmar), is an absolute sweetheart. I haven't had the pleasure of working with these bloodlines before, and I am impressed! He is 100% willing, eager, and forward. He really has a great work ethic, even after having several years off from work and being a little overweight. He does have some sensitivity issues, very scared of whips being one, but he's already very trusting. I'd love to hear from anyone with experience working with these lines, as I'm intrigued. His movement is fabulous - very strong haunches and really works off his hocks. His natural cadence and rhythm is breathtaking. Yui, the mare, is a 12 yr. old Hostar daughter and out of Uli/Garth. You can imagine how excited I was to have another Hostar offspring coming to my farm, as my very own Fjord, NW Barlind, is also sired by Hostar. Yui has the same great qualities as Barlind - very friendly, 'in your pocket' kind of personality. She's much more head-strong than Teigar, but learned very quickly that I'm the 'better horse' in the relationship. For the first few days Yui and I worked together in-hand. Yui was very quick to learn how to respect my space. She loves her new rope halter and now walks calmly beside me at all times. Over the weekend I worked both horses in the long-lines and really saw what they knew. It's obvious they both have had some good training, primarily in harness. Riding Teigar is very interesting, because he really rides like a driving horse. He doesn't like to get close to the wall and takes his corners a little wide. He's now learning to move away from the leg, instead of just going faster! Working with these two really do confirm my beliefs that Fjords are exceptionally quick learners. Just a quick note as well, about Fjords and jumping. My fjord NW Barlind, LOVES to jump. He's always game for anything, and really gets excited when he sees jumps set up in the arena. Last week we worked on gymnastics. I had three jumps set up, a crossrail - 18' - a vertical - 21' - then an oxer. He loved every minute of the challenge and by the end the jumps were up to 3'. He'll jump poles, planks, brush boxes and walls. Funny thing though, the only jump he ever hesitates to is the hay bales. The first time we approached the hay he slowed right down and almost looked at me. It was as if he was saying "Could we stop for a quick snack...please?". Of course we didn't, and he cleared those bales leaving lots of room to spare. There was NO way he was getting his lunch mussed up :) That's all for now. Thanks for reading! Again, I'd love to hear of anyone's personal experiences with the above mentioned bloodlines. Sincerely, Kelly MacDonald Windows Live Hotmail. Even hotter than before Get a better look now. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: trailer training
This message is from: "Skeels, Mark A (GE Healthcare)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Does he back good on the ground? We teach backing thru Paralli's course and just have to give a little wiggle to the lead rope and they back. Also you might find sometimes they may take that first step off going backwards, and step right back in, alarming having a drop going backwords. I think it is just a matter of putting time in with the horse and getting him comfortable with backing first on the ground, then adding this to the picture. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: trailer training This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a one year old fjord.We put him on the trailer and drove him around last year as a baby.This year and last year,he will load up on his own with or without the partition.When unloading,if the partition is gone,he will turn around and step right off (we have a step up trailer).If the partition is in,he is difficult to move.Any suggestions on how to teach him to back off? He has been so good about everything else that I want to do this the easiest way on him. Thanks,Ellen The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
trailer training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a one year old fjord.We put him on the trailer and drove him around last year as a baby.This year and last year,he will load up on his own with or without the partition.When unloading,if the partition is gone,he will turn around and step right off (we have a step up trailer).If the partition is in,he is difficult to move.Any suggestions on how to teach him to back off? He has been so good about everything else that I want to do this the easiest way on him. Thanks,Ellen The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
