Re: Wolf teeth ..OUT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just a note to add about wolf teeth. They pull out relatively easy compared to the other teeth so it can be done with some sedation and that's it.
Wolf teeth ..OUT
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] A word of advice on wolf teeth .. don't hesitate. In my experience, if you are aware there is a problem with the wolf teeth, they should come out right away. If there is a chance that the might not occur even once, when you're driving .. it could be the last thing time you or your horse drives. The trainer I use to start my horses will not work with them at all, unless the wolf teeth have been removed. This is the traditional view, in our area at least. And most vets, who profit by the procedure, are quick to concur. Olaf Nyby (one of Norway's top clinicians) is of the view that they should be pulled only when necessary (rather like the debate around tonsils in children) BUT . if there is a chance they are interfering, there's no question you want them out - asap and before you drive again). It could be your last drive. Safety first. Just my opinion. Cheryl Beillard Wake-Robin Farm Fjords Douglas, Ontario www.wakerobinfarm.ca Wake-Robin Carriage Co. Inc. NA Distributor for Tidaholm Marathon Carriages
Re: WOLF TEETH
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Janne, what is harvest dust? Up here in Alaska we have termination dust which is Snow, meaning many summer construction jobs are ending. Jean in sunny but cool Fairabanksk, Alaska, 40 degrees now, was 32 this morning with a bit of frost. Janne in sunny and warm ND. Harvest dust in the air. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOLF TEETH
This message is from: Janne Myrdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just thought I would mention this, since there has been lots of discussion on this issue. I have a 4 year old pleassure QH gelding that started to fight the bit like a mad man. I saw NO wolf tooth, but today took him to the vet and found one, and it was EVER so little, smallest one I have ever see, - so now I hope it will help him. Sure it will. Anyway, as I said, I could not see it, but at the clinic we found it after a good look. Strange things they are. Janne in sunny and warm ND. Harvest dust in the air.
RE: Wolf Teeth -- V and R meet the dentist
This message is from: Bill/Liz/Katy/Charlie/Arne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cheryl, I love the name Yggdrasil!! I tried to convince Ceacy (Henderson) to name one of her foals that, but she wouldn't listen. :( She said she didn't think anyone would be able to pronounce it! haha, maybe she's right, but it's a wonderful Norwegian name! The first time I saw it, in an Agatha Christie mystery, I had no idea about Norwegian mythology...took me a while to figure out the name... Katy Andersen + Jon [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: fjordhorse-digest [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 9:30 AM Subject: fjordhorse-digest V2002 #208 fjordhorse-digest Sunday, September 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 208 In this issue: Color Re: Fuzzy coats Wolf Teeth -- V and R meet the dentist Congrats, Grass and Feed, Gayle Ware Color Re: Color Fjord stuff saddles Shetlands Re: Shetlands Re: Fjord stuff FJORD HORSE CHATSUNDAY NIGHT See the end of the digest for information on how to retrieve back issues. -- Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:42:34 -0700 From: Knutsen Fjord Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Color This message is from: Knutsen Fjord Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi again - Lauren, I know beans about paints, but it appears that Karen has answered your question. To all, I recommend Sponenberg's books on Equine Color Genetics. There is also one called Horse Color Explained by Jeanette Gower. Randi - on the basis of the information given, 25% is your chance of getting grey. Comments, Lori? Karen - BB to BB, Bb, or bb is your only guarantee of grey phenotype. Help me out here, Lori, I think I've fallen into the deep end of the gene pool and I can't get out. Jamie - See above - I'll try to clear my head and be more helpful tomorrow. I'm just back from two weeks at Julie's and not at my best. As far as shagginess is concerned, our small sample of [one] stallion is less shaggy than the brown mares, about the same as the grey girls, so I have attributed the difference to color, but it could be inheritance, where they were raised, who knows? At least it's not diet, because we don't discriminate on the basis of color here They all dine at the same counter. Bye - Peg Peg Knutsen - Ellensburg, WA http://www.eburg.com/~kffjord/ -- Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 23:29:35 -0600 From: Alison Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fuzzy coats This message is from: Alison Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, I have noticed that my stallion Anvil's Borgen keeps a fairly short coat compared to the geldings and most of the mares. I agree with that nutrition plays an important role in the coat. Some horse just seem to get longer coats than others. Alison Bakken Sundre, Alberta Cool days and nights just above freezing. -- Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 08:26:47 -0400 From: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Wolf Teeth -- V and R meet the dentist This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well .. realizing I had to get the vet back to fill out yet another emmigration form for Yggdrasil (!) (it's Emigrate for those leaving and Immigrate for those arriving, right?), and in anticipation of their start in training this month, yesterday we did the deed and turned the barn into a dental surgery for Veronica (2) and Rannild (3) .. and it took forever. My husband retreated to the house to avoid listening to the groans of by now heavily sedated V, and the grinding ..too much empathy. We started on her with half the normal dose as I have read accounts of how fjords are more sensitive to anaesthetics (?) and remember a Nfld. dog that nearly died when we had to sedate him to remove porcupine quills (his partner in crime, a black lab, and 1/2 the weight, took 3 times the dose and was still growling at us) . It took well over an hour to loosen V's and get them out .. one was quite long, the other small .. the vet thought it was easier when they are a older and other teeth have come in to dislodge them? Rannild's were both small and came out in about 20 minutes and we were all sweating .. even us humans w/o the drugs in our systems. Not a pleasant process but I am convinced it is important to do, to avoid potential problems with bitting/driving, etc. in future. We will give them 3-4 days to heal up and then they're off to the trainer to be started so I can drive them both next spring. By the way, all my current driving horses are bred to Felix (heads up anyone interested in a Bragda/Felix baby, or one from Soleia or Tunica (Kalypso/Courage and Brusvein/Solar grandsires). We have had 100% success with live cover this year within the Felix Group and are all looking forward to a good crop next
Wolf Teeth -- V and R meet the dentist
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well .. realizing I had to get the vet back to fill out yet another emmigration form for Yggdrasil (!) (it's Emigrate for those leaving and Immigrate for those arriving, right?), and in anticipation of their start in training this month, yesterday we did the deed and turned the barn into a dental surgery for Veronica (2) and Rannild (3) .. and it took forever. My husband retreated to the house to avoid listening to the groans of by now heavily sedated V, and the grinding ..too much empathy. We started on her with half the normal dose as I have read accounts of how fjords are more sensitive to anaesthetics (?) and remember a Nfld. dog that nearly died when we had to sedate him to remove porcupine quills (his partner in crime, a black lab, and 1/2 the weight, took 3 times the dose and was still growling at us) . It took well over an hour to loosen V's and get them out .. one was quite long, the other small .. the vet thought it was easier when they are a older and other teeth have come in to dislodge them? Rannild's were both small and came out in about 20 minutes and we were all sweating .. even us humans w/o the drugs in our systems. Not a pleasant process but I am convinced it is important to do, to avoid potential problems with bitting/driving, etc. in future. We will give them 3-4 days to heal up and then they're off to the trainer to be started so I can drive them both next spring. By the way, all my current driving horses are bred to Felix (heads up anyone interested in a Bragda/Felix baby, or one from Soleia or Tunica (Kalypso/Courage and Brusvein/Solar grandsires). We have had 100% success with live cover this year within the Felix Group and are all looking forward to a good crop next year. Back on topic .. my vet believes that wolf teeth are much more common in fjords .. but said she sees them fairly often in thoroughbreds too -- I guess we need to define fairly often -- that works against your theory, Karen, which had immediate resonance for me .. but I'm not going to give up .. I'll just start taking a poll of people I know with other breeds to see what they have to say. I guess it could be done online through other chat lines to see what comes up .. or to ask more vets .. but it is an interesting topic for me. Gotta go and relieve poor Bragda who is waiting patiently for me to let her rejoin Yggdrasil for his morning feed .. we're weaning him and this is another stage where I empathise with the horse, based on personal experience! Cheryl Where the grass is just about nonexistent and even the leaves on the trees are showing the effects of the drought. ps. My husband (who has a need to work work work) has just finished building a 5 ft high, 2 ft wide stone wall, built of stones we find in large piles around the property, cairns left by pioneers who tried (unsuccessfully) to farm this rocky soil .. as a new paddock, which he has done w/o the aid of a front end loader .. just a crowbar and a trailer and lots of cuts and bruises .. and I think how odd to be doing this, in the age of nylon electric/solar fencers, etc. .. a little like the woodstove and the microwave in the kitchen .. two ends of the spectrum .. anyone else out there building stone walls a la pioneer? ps 2 Last week, when one section was only 4 feet high, two neighbours dropped by on horseback and Rannild, Tunica and V all popped over it easily to visit the newcomers (!) .. just ticking the top lightly .. I think that was a first jump for all of them .. so they can do it, can't they?!
Re: Wolf Teeth
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] No, no. I don't need a new dentist; he needs a new client for mixing the two up! At any rate, she has funny little canines which are what he told me the Egyptian story about. He said he wouldn't pull them since they aren't a problem. Karen Are you talking about CANINE teeth? These are just behind the last incisors. Wolf teeth are tiny teeth just IN FRONT of the molars. These you remove. You should NOT remove canine teeth! They will usually have a very large root. Yes, few mare have canines, usually, but many have wolf teeth! My young mare Adel has wolf teeth, but they don't seem to be a problem. If your horse dentist is calling Canine teeth wolf teeth, I would get another dentist! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska At 01:54 PM 9/6/2002 +1000, you wrote: This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] This discussion of wolf teeth in mares is rather interesting. My mare has these funny little teeth next to the last of her incisors that I had never seen before in another horse. I got the tooth fairy out -- that's the horse dentist -- and he told me they were wolf teeth. He said only about 5% of mares have wolf teeth. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: Wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Had a yearling with the biggest wolf tooth our vet had ever seen. Had another, teeth taken on first visit here by the vet, two good sized ones and my old gelding at 12 or 13 all of a sudden had a wolf tooth erupt, never seen before on the 6 monthly dental checks that I insist on. Oldest wolf tooth they had seen! So my vets are always careful to check my guys, they also seem to think it is a little more common than other breeds. That was the same with Torden - his wolf teeth were the biggest my equine dentist had ever seen (and he's seen a LOT of them!), at least three times the average size. It's got to be the breed. Jamie In the Mountains SW of Denver, CO
Re: Wolf Teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/5/2002 9:17:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My mare has these funny little teeth next to the last of her incisors Actually, wolf teeth will be right in front of the foremost molars; which is why they will often bother horses when using a bit. They are usually very small and snugged right up against the molar. I have seen quite a few mares that had wolf teeth. Now CANINE teeth are very rare in mares - the single tooth in the center of the open space between the incisors molars. These two very different teeth are often confused, or even thought to be the same thing (I've even heard a vet once refer to the canines in a mare we had as wolf teeth). There was actually a very good article written by Dr Doug Hammill, DVM of Montana on wolf teeth in a previous issue of Small Farmer's Journal. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wolf teeth
This message is from: M Korose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Had a yearling with the biggest wolf tooth our vet had ever seen. Had another, teeth taken on first visit here by the vet, two good sized ones and my old gelding at 12 or 13 all of a sudden had a wolf tooth erupt, never seen before on the 6 monthly dental checks that I insist on. Oldest wolf tooth they had seen! So my vets are always careful to check my guys, they also seem to think it is a little more common than other breeds. Marsha in VA where we have 3 baby CDEs/horse trials in the next 4 weeks, am I lucky or WHAT! Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
Re: Wolf Teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/5/2002 9:38:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, few mare have canines, usually, but many have wolf teeth! My young mare Adel has wolf teeth, but they don't seem to be a problem. Juniper's got the canines. Very odd looking. Pamela A HREF=http://hometown.aol.com/northhorse/index.html;Northern Holiday Horses/A
Re: Wolf Teeth
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you talking about CANINE teeth? These are just behind the last incisors. Wolf teeth are tiny teeth just IN FRONT of the molars. These you remove. You should NOT remove canine teeth! They will usually have a very large root. Yes, few mare have canines, usually, but many have wolf teeth! My young mare Adel has wolf teeth, but they don't seem to be a problem. If your horse dentist is calling Canine teeth wolf teeth, I would get another dentist! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska At 01:54 PM 9/6/2002 +1000, you wrote: This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] This discussion of wolf teeth in mares is rather interesting. My mare has these funny little teeth next to the last of her incisors that I had never seen before in another horse. I got the tooth fairy out -- that's the horse dentist -- and he told me they were wolf teeth. He said only about 5% of mares have wolf teeth. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Argh! Sorry. I know I should have edited that message, but I'd hit the send button just nanoseconds before the edit light went on in my head. As punishment, I am writing 100 times, I will not drink wine and operate a computer. But don't worry, I won't post it. Cheers! Karen _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Re: Wolf Teeth
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] This discussion of wolf teeth in mares is rather interesting. My mare has these funny little teeth next to the last of her incisors that I had never seen before in another horse. I got the tooth fairy out -- that's the horse dentist -- and he told me they were wolf teeth. He said only about 5% of mares have wolf teeth. Then he told me a story of why that is. This, of course, may just be a story or there may be some truth to it, so take it for what it's worth. He said years ago (I think about 5,000) when the Egyptians were selectively breeding horses, they decided wolf teeth were un-feminine, so bred them out of their mares. And that's why few mares today have wolf teeth. Now this may be an interesting factoid or entirely fiction, but I've taken the theory a step further after seeing all the posts about wolf teeth being not uncommon in Fjord mares. Perhaps wolf teeth are more common in Fjord mares because Fjords are closer to the primitive horse rather than the selectively bred animals (I assume Arabs). Anybody like that theory? Bear in mind, it's been formulated and typed on a couple of glasses of Penfolds Bin 389. :^) (hic) Chew on that. (Tooth pun intended.) Cheers! Karen From: John Rooker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject: Re: Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:20:25 -0400 This message is from: John Rooker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vili, our one and only Fjord, just had two wolf teeth removed a week ago. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 9/4/02 at 11:09 PM Cheryl Beillard wrote: This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all .. I have a question for everyone regarding the prevalence of wolf teeth in the fjord population. I have just had the vet check two horses (2 and 3 yr old mares) and both have small wolf teeth erupting which I will have pulled before they are started this fall in their driving program. This is the 3rd fjord (of 7) which have had these teeth and my vet seems to think that this is a high percentage? So I'm wondering what the general experience has been among the several hundred fjord owners/breeders on the List? Do you check, and how often have you found your horses to have them. And do you have them removed. Neither of the two trainers I use will accept a horse with wolf teeth .. re the fall coats .. of my 6, one 2 yr old and this year's foal, have both started to get their winter coats .. the others remain smooth and glossy. It would be interesting to know if they follow the same pattern, ie early or late, in shedding or growing coats, from year to year. One other minor brag, for the breed as a whole, .. the same foal -- which Barb Jones and I have agreed to name Julie's Yggdrasil (Flotren x Bragda) - 4 mths, had to undergo vaccinations and a Coggins test this morning, for which he stood quite calmy (albeit with a bucket o of grain under his nose and someone rubbing his back) .. and the vet said she didn't believe that any other breed could be so easy to work with and so calm in response to this type of stress .. most of the babies she sees fly all over the stall at the first jab .. this boy has all of Bragda's spirit and then some, but clearly an equally strong does of common sense and trust in us .. we were so proud of him and I know that if Julie were up to reading the List, she'd be proud of him too. Watch out world, this is going to be one nice horse when he grows up! _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and
This message is from: John Rooker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vili, our one and only Fjord, just had two wolf teeth removed a week ago. *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 9/4/02 at 11:09 PM Cheryl Beillard wrote: This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all .. I have a question for everyone regarding the prevalence of wolf teeth in the fjord population. I have just had the vet check two horses (2 and 3 yr old mares) and both have small wolf teeth erupting which I will have pulled before they are started this fall in their driving program. This is the 3rd fjord (of 7) which have had these teeth and my vet seems to think that this is a high percentage? So I'm wondering what the general experience has been among the several hundred fjord owners/breeders on the List? Do you check, and how often have you found your horses to have them. And do you have them removed. Neither of the two trainers I use will accept a horse with wolf teeth .. re the fall coats .. of my 6, one 2 yr old and this year's foal, have both started to get their winter coats .. the others remain smooth and glossy. It would be interesting to know if they follow the same pattern, ie early or late, in shedding or growing coats, from year to year. One other minor brag, for the breed as a whole, .. the same foal -- which Barb Jones and I have agreed to name Julie's Yggdrasil (Flotren x Bragda) - 4 mths, had to undergo vaccinations and a Coggins test this morning, for which he stood quite calmy (albeit with a bucket o of grain under his nose and someone rubbing his back) .. and the vet said she didn't believe that any other breed could be so easy to work with and so calm in response to this type of stress .. most of the babies she sees fly all over the stall at the first jab .. this boy has all of Bragda's spirit and then some, but clearly an equally strong does of common sense and trust in us .. we were so proud of him and I know that if Julie were up to reading the List, she'd be proud of him too. Watch out world, this is going to be one nice horse when he grows up!
Re: Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Cheryl, I was just trying to remember how many of our Fjords have not had wolf teeth, for in our experience, more do than do not. With some thought, I know that most of the geldings yearling age or older had them, but with the fillies it was not as high a percentage. I would have to go through all the records to make an accurate count of that, however. We always have wolf teeth pulled as soon as they are discovered. Take care, Lynda and Daniel Bailey's Norwegian Fjords Shetlands White Cloud, MI 231-689-9902 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hometown.aol.com/baileysfjords/ Standing J. J.'s Painted Bo-Jo ASPC #141052A 1998 1999 Classic Shetland Performance Pony of the Year
Re: Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 9/4/02 8:30:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So I'm wondering what the general experience has been among the several hundred fjord owners/breeders on the List? Do you check, and how often have you found your horses to have them. And do you have them removed. Hi Cheryl- My Rafael had wolf teeth when I got him. I had them removed at the vet's recommendation. Brigid M Wasson San Francisco Bay Area, CA A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Our /A A HREF=http://ourfjords.freeservers.com/fjord1/Our_Fjordsx.html;Fjords/A A HREF=http://www.ourfjords.freeservers.com/fw/Fjordings_Wesx.html; Fjordings West/A / )__~ /L /L
Wolf Teeth, Fall Coats and
This message is from: Cheryl Beillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all .. I have a question for everyone regarding the prevalence of wolf teeth in the fjord population. I have just had the vet check two horses (2 and 3 yr old mares) and both have small wolf teeth erupting which I will have pulled before they are started this fall in their driving program. This is the 3rd fjord (of 7) which have had these teeth and my vet seems to think that this is a high percentage? So I'm wondering what the general experience has been among the several hundred fjord owners/breeders on the List? Do you check, and how often have you found your horses to have them. And do you have them removed. Neither of the two trainers I use will accept a horse with wolf teeth .. re the fall coats .. of my 6, one 2 yr old and this year's foal, have both started to get their winter coats .. the others remain smooth and glossy. It would be interesting to know if they follow the same pattern, ie early or late, in shedding or growing coats, from year to year. One other minor brag, for the breed as a whole, .. the same foal -- which Barb Jones and I have agreed to name Julie's Yggdrasil (Flotren x Bragda) - 4 mths, had to undergo vaccinations and a Coggins test this morning, for which he stood quite calmy (albeit with a bucket o of grain under his nose and someone rubbing his back) .. and the vet said she didn't believe that any other breed could be so easy to work with and so calm in response to this type of stress .. most of the babies she sees fly all over the stall at the first jab .. this boy has all of Bragda's spirit and then some, but clearly an equally strong does of common sense and trust in us .. we were so proud of him and I know that if Julie were up to reading the List, she'd be proud of him too. Watch out world, this is going to be one nice horse when he grows up!
Re:pulling wolf teeth
This message is from: Mark and Lisa McGinley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please read philly as filly in my post... must have been lunch time! Mark
Pulling Wolf teeth
This message is from: Mark and Lisa McGinley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apparently our philly Asa has been reading the fjord list over my shoulder and decided to do a little dentistry on her mom. A couple of days ago we noticed that Alida (Mom) had a swollen right side of her face. When I looked at it it appeared to be a kick wound. Sure enough the Vet came out and said that it was an Impact injury and her right wolf tooth was barely in. He pulled it out and she's doing fine now. Never did stop eating though!! Asa was proud to help us out in regards to those pesky wolf teeth. I know it was Asa because Alida won't let her get very close anymore. Maybe we have a new dominant mare?... At two years old? Uh Oh. Mark McGinley Mariposa Farm Fjord horses, Australian Shepherds, sheep and fibers Washburn, Wisconsin, USA
Re: Wolf Teeth/Sedation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Margaret, Your comments on teeth were well put! We do the same with our horses. They must be comfortable in order to do their 'jobs'! Sorry, but I won't be at Blue Earth this year! Have a good time! Bernadine Karns Nottawa Crossing Fjords Marshall, Michigan
Wolf Teeth/Sedation
This message is from: Margaret Strachan [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have had wolf teeth pulled on nearly every young horse and also some older horses we have bought. I will not bit a new or young horse until I have had the vet check their mouth. The problems we have seen with wolf teeth range from a slight tenseness in the horse's neck to a bolt when the right rein was pulled. These problems have disappeared immediately when the teeth have been pulled. A vet who insists on pulling the teeth has the horse's comfort and the rider's safety in mind. I believe that many horses who exhibit behavior problems may actually have easily fixed wolf teeth problems. The mare who bolted never has done it again and it was the vet's opinion that the wolf teeth were the direct cause. Wolf teeth can be a safety issue. We learned about the sedation dosage when we had a Fjord yearling and a boarded QH yearling gelded the same day. The QH took more than twice the dosage to lay him down. Last year when the regular vet was on vacation I had another vet out. I told him about the experience with the gelding and he said he had worked in Germany and that it was common knowledge there about the sedation dosage with the Fjords. I will be attending the Blue Earth show sans horses this year. It will be nice to visit with and match people with their names and pictures. Margaret Strachan Village Farm Nuevo, CA http://www.pe.net/~barry/ Warm, clear, and pretty in Southern California--not too hot and cool evenings.
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had wolf teeth removed on my gelding at 2 yrs. Ann Sigford
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gail, I believe maybe the veterinarian confused his terminology. Wolf teeth are common in both sexes and all breeds. They are the small teeth which are usually immediately in front of, and touching, the big upper molars. It is a fairly minor procedure to remove those. Canine teeth are the ones that females usually don't have, and those are fairly easy to see (in a horse that has them) by opening the mouth and looking, on the top or the bottom, in the big space between the incisors and the molars. It's unfortunate that the name wolf teeth was ever used for those small teeth in the upper jaw of a horse. When you think of a wolf, you think of long fangs or canines, so many people think the canines (the ones they can see easily) are the wolf teeth. Just remember, the canines are what you'd expect: fairly sharp, usually on top and bottom, and in between the incisors and the molars, AND usually only in males. The wolf teeth are smaller, more difficult to see and feel, and are right in front of, and touching, the upper molars. They are actually a premolar. Hope that helps! Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/19/99 22:44:23 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One thing I did learn from the experience is that fjords need a lower dose of sedation for this procedeure. Amen! Nikki had her wolf teeth pulled several weeks ago. The vet gave her a regular amount of sedative, based on her weight, and she almost went down. Most horses come out of it within a half hour. She was loopy for several hours. Hopefully she won't need sedating for anything else ever again, but if she does, I think a half dose would work. Pamela
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: Mary Thurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anybody else have wolf teeth to pull in their Fjords?? Curious in hot and humid MN. Susan We had the wolf teeth pulled on both of our geldings while they were under anesthesia being gelded. That procedure is common practice with our horse vet. The wolf teeth buds are easily removed while the horse is still young (in this case, around 7 months) thus avoiding the possibility of problems with the bit later on in life when removing the teeth is a bit more of a procedure. I think it's the kindest way to do it for a gelding - he is already asleep and doesn't have any mental trauma associated with it. I have seen horses become very uneasy about having their mouths fussed with (ie, worming, bute, etc.) after having some dental procedure done that was painful. Having their teeth floated doesn't seem to create this problem, assuming the floating is done regularly and not in one marathon session after many years of neglect. Fjords generally seem more accepting of messing with their mouths than other breeds I've had - just as they are more accepting of most things - but occasionally you run across one that seems more sensitive. Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Wolf teeth
This message is from: Philis Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, The vet has pulled wolf teeth on two of my Fjords. i.e. one mare at three years of age and one gelding at four years of age. I have two young mares to go. Getting ready for Blue Earth and battling the biting flies, humid heat and hot sun-and frustrated horses! Philis Anderson
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: Karen McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the vet) said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords? At least every other filly I have raised has had wolf teeth. My vet didn't think it was such a big deal. One thing I did learn from the experience is that fjords need a lower dose of sedation for this procedeure. The first mare we did it on, a 2 1/2 yr old filly, needed alot of time to come out of it, had the vet a little worried there, so from now on I tell them to ease up a bit on the dosage, and so far so good. Brian, your 2 cents? ___ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, my Holsteiner mare had two and when they were pried out, returned to her morning hay. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, July 19, 1999 6:51 AM Subject: wolf teeth This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I had my girls' teeth checked this spring (at ages 3 and 4), the vet (a equine vet of good reputation) found one wolf tooth in Riba that had to be removed and two wolf teeth in Ida that were also removed. He said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords?
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: carl and sarah nagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] my yearling gelding, Sonny, has wolf teeth. our vet indicated that she will want to remove them in the next 6 months or so. some breeds have them. seems that Fjords do. that's all i know! according to the vet, they just pop right out. she had wanted to remove them when she gelded him, but they weren't in enough. Sarah Nagel in Northern Idaho with June and Sonny chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords?
wolf teeth
This message is from: Jon A. Ofjord [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your Wrote:Anybody else have wolf teeth to pull in their Fjords?? Curious in hot and humid MN. Susan Susan: We had the wolf teeth pulled on our yearling gelding, at our request, not the vets. Mary Ofjord North COast Fjords
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gail, The vet recommended we check for wolf teeth on Major when we got him at the age of 2 1/2. He's now 4 and no wolf teeth have appeared. I E-mailed Carol Rivoire, who sold him to me, to ask if his wolf teeth had already been pulled but she never replied so I have no way of knowing if he had them or not. Carol, if you're out there, could you look up the records on BDF Majordomo and tell me if his wolf teeth were ever pulled?? Thanks. Anybody else have wolf teeth to pull in their Fjords?? Curious in hot and humid MN. Susan
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I had my girls' teeth checked this spring (at ages 3 and 4), the vet (a equine vet of good reputation) found one wolf tooth in Riba that had to be removed and two wolf teeth in Ida that were also removed. He said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Um, perhaps someone is confused Wolf tooth is the common name for a vestigal premolar---little tiny useless tooth, at the front of the row of grinding teeth (molars) on the sides of the horse's jaw. Most (but not all) horses have them, but I've not heard of it being sex-linked. Usually, they're just on one jaw (the top, as I recall---books are at home), but my female donkey had all 4 of hers! Some folks contend that wolf teeth have to be pulled (or they interfere with the bit); others leave them alone. Because they're poorly anchored, pulling them is relatively easy. Canine teeth are the fangs that male equines have in the middle of their bars---half way between the molars in back and the incisors in front. These are large, well-anchored teeth that don't cause problems, so are rarely pulled---unless the person doing the dentistry is ill-informed. (I once had a vet admit that, fresh out of vet school, she had pulled a gelding's canines, because the vet school dentistry course hadn't taught her the difference between wolf teeth and canines!) Very rarely will a mare have canine teeth. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/19/99 8:40:20 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When I had my girls' teeth checked this spring (at ages 3 and 4), the vet (a equine vet of good reputation) found one wolf tooth in Riba that had to be removed and two wolf teeth in Ida that were also removed. He said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords? Katrina also had 2 wolf teeth removed and I know of a couple from Los Trigos also. Seems to be a fjord thing. Sue
Re: wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 7/19/99 7:40:23 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords? I just had 2 wolf teeth pulled on Nikki. Juniper's teeth are fine. Pamela
wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I had my girls' teeth checked this spring (at ages 3 and 4), the vet (a equine vet of good reputation) found one wolf tooth in Riba that had to be removed and two wolf teeth in Ida that were also removed. He said the chances of finding 3 wolf teeth in 2 mares was phenomenal, that mares rarely have wolf teeth. Does anyone know if this is common in fjords?
Re: Wolf teeth cont.
This message is from: Alison Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, seems he's more likely to get his lips pinched with loose ring bits due to the more fleshy lips. I think a lot of fjords have this problem. how very true. I never thought of that, but if I am not carefull, he does get pinched. On a semi- related subject, does anyone know where I could get a loose ring french link in a 6 1/4 inch? by next year, the bit I ride him in will be banned from dressage due to a new rule about the width of bits, and he would work really well in that. I don't want an eggbut because he leans in them.
Re: Wolf teeth/Driving tapes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Barry, Please let me know if/what you hear on the Wisconsin Fjord Show!! Bernadine Karns
Re: Wolf teeth cont.
This message is from: Gregor Fellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 05:57 PM 9/10/98 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: Mike Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just curious, were the wolf teeth on the top or bottom? I've had a discussion with a vet and a vet tech RE this very subject recently. One says they're only on the top, another says they don't come in til the horse is much older, like 10 or older. Guess those two mares proved THAT one wrong, eh?! Thanks - Casey Although the Vet that removed the tooth called it a Wolf tooth, based on the dicussion here, I'm not so sure. It was on the bottom right side and the mare is about seven years old. The tooth itself was gigantic, about 1 1/4 inches long and 5/8 inches in diameter, a rather large piece of candy corn.
Re: Wolf teeth cont.
This message is from: Jean Ernest [EMAIL PROTECTED] It sounds to me like the vet removed the canine! which would be uncomon in a mare. Boy, that must have hurt! I've had a couple experienced horsemen tell me the canines in my geldings were wolf teeth. Seems they had mostly mares! My vet told me my gelding had wolf teeth at the age of 3 or so, if I remember right. They haven't been a problem except when my dressage instructor raised the snaffle very high in his mouth. She refused to believe he had wolf teeth (maybe becouse he didn't react violently like other horses) but I felt that there was something bothering him. His lips are sort of loose so one can pull a bit way up into the back teeth if they're not careful.. Also, seems he's more likely to get his lips pinched with loose ring bits due to the more fleshy lips. I think a lot of fjords have this problem. Jean in sunny Fairbanks, Alaska where fall colors are at their peak: Beautiful! At 02:21 PM 9/11/98 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: Gregor Fellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 05:57 PM 9/10/98 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: Mike Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just curious, were the wolf teeth on the top or bottom? I've had a discussion with a vet and a vet tech RE this very subject recently. One says they're only on the top, another says they don't come in til the horse is much older, like 10 or older. Guess those two mares proved THAT one wrong, eh?! Thanks - Casey Although the Vet that removed the tooth called it a Wolf tooth, based on the dicussion here, I'm not so sure. It was on the bottom right side and the mare is about seven years old. The tooth itself was gigantic, about 1 1/4 inches long and 5/8 inches in diameter, a rather large piece of candy corn. ** Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wolf teeth/Driving tapes
This message is from: barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regarding the wolf teeth, we have them removed routinely and/or when necessary. There is usually very little bleeding (the teeth aren't that big) and even anesthetic is not always necessary. We did our yearling when he was gelded and he took the whole thing like a champ. It definitely helps with problems from the bit. For the person wanting Driving tapes, I would recommend Holding the Reins with John Parker and Paul Heiny, an informative and enjoyable basic tape, and also Lynn Palmer's Pleasure Driving which has excellent material on training. I would also like to ask if anyone has any info on the Fjord show at Two Rivers in Wisconsin this month. TIA. Barry Village Farm Nuevo, Ca.
Wolf teeth cont.
This message is from: Mike Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just curious, were the wolf teeth on the top or bottom? I've had a discussion with a vet and a vet tech RE this very subject recently. One says they're only on the top, another says they don't come in til the horse is much older, like 10 or older. Guess those two mares proved THAT one wrong, eh?! Thanks - Casey
RE: Wolf teeth
This message is from: Marge Littleboy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re.:What about wolf teeth. Should they always be removed? Are they common in Fjord mares? [Marge Littleboy] We have two mares, and both had wolf teeth. Brith had a great deal of pain with her wolf teeth, causing her to not want to respond to the bit, especially backing - which had not been a problem prior to the eruption of the teeth. Once removed and area healed she was back to her usual self. Asta also developed the wolf teeth and these were removed prior to giving them a chance to cause a problem with her training. Brith's wolf teeth did not show until she turned 4 years old, whereas Asta's showed themselves prior to turning two. I am of the feeling that they should be removed, pressure from the bit can cause severe pain/irritation and it is not worth the risk of the irritation causing a problem when they are being ridden or driven. They should be looked for everytime the horse has the teeth floated, as they do not erupt at the same time frame for each animal. It is much better to have them removed when you are on a down time, this to allow that ample time for the gum to hea. I am also from the school that the mares were less likely to get the wolf teeth, but I now know that it is possible for either sex to have them. This is just from my experience, anyone else have feedback?
more on wolf teeth
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BRIAN C JACOBSEN) Since my wife Barbara keeps accusing me of having a simple mind (she's joking, I think.), let me prove her right by adding to Marsha Jo Hannah's good but possibly-too-technical-for-new-horse-owners answer to Carol's wolf teeth question.I don't mean Carol, because she's not new to horses, but some others on the list are. Many of our veterinary clients are new to horses, so I tend to think in terms that new horse owners will understand. You do not see the wolf teeth when your horse opens its mouth. What you see there is incisors and maybe canines. To see wolf teeth you have to open your horses mouth and look back in there just in front of the first upper premolar. If you're not experienced at that, it's better not to try it yourself; A horse has been known to break a man's ARM by chomping on it, so one little misplaced finger of yours would not even be noticed as it was crunched! That's not to discourage you from at some point being able to look in a horse's mouth for wolf teeth, but it's best to let your veterinarian or someone who has had some experience show you how to do it. A wolf tooth is often the size of a piece of candy corn or smaller, but only the tip (the white part of the candy corn) is visible protruding from the gum. As Marsha Jo mentioned, usually the only time the wolf teeth cause trouble is when the bit is pressing against them and causing discomfort. Some owners, trainers, and veterinarians routinely just want them removed when the horse is ready to be started in training to ride. Others only have them removed if the horse seems to be resenting the bit and different bits have been tried and did not help. Not uncommonly, a horse will be blamed for having an attitude problem when it is actually an ill-fitting bit or wolf teeth that hurt. Also, visa versa, wolf teeth have been blamed when it is really an attitude problem. It is fairly easy to tell the difference by removing the wolf teeth and letting the gums heal, and then trying the bit again. A closing thought: If your horse is at a trainer's and he/she says they will take care of it (getting the wolf teeth removed), you might want to find out exactly what is meant by that. Some trainers do it themselves or have a backyard vet (not really a vet) do it. Since they are probably not going to sedate your Fjord or give him/her a tetanus booster, and since their instrument is usually a dirty screwdriver, it would probably behoove you to let your veterinarian do it. Don't really mean to make you nervous or suspicious; This doesn't happen as often as it used to. But we still do see it sometimes. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Wolf teeth
This message is from: Gregor Fellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] We've talked about sheath cleaning, burning off chin hairs, and cleaning wounds with sugar. What about wolf teeth. Should they always be removed? Are they common in Fjord mares? We just had one removed from our SF Amy. I was under the impression that this was mainly a problem with the male species.
Re: Wolf teeth
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gregor Fellers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about wolf teeth. Should they always be removed? Are they common in Fjord mares? We just had one removed from our SF Amy. I was under the impression that this was mainly a problem with the male species. First of all, some terminology. Wolf teeth are also known as vestigal premolars---little tiny poorly-anchored teeth, directly in front of the rest of the cheek teeth (pre-molars and molars). Then, there are canine teeth, which are large, well-anchored, and isolated, in the middle of the bars---the open space between the incisors and the pre-molars. Generally, only males have canines; both sexes usually have wolf teeth. Whether wolf teeth get pulled depends on the vet---many routinely pull them, to prevent problems, others only pull them if the animal seems to be fussy with the bit against them. Our Fjord gelding, Rom, still had his wolf teeth when we got him at age 5. My vet looked at them, concluded they were large and well-anchored, hence unlikely to cause a problem, and just left them alone. Interestingly, my jenny (female donkey) had wolf teeth on both her top and bottom jaws. (Usually they're only on one jaw---the bottom, as I recall.) Our vet pulled the usual pair when they came in; the other pair was somewhat smaller, and appeared several years later; we just left them alone. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
