date:20070416

Over the weekend several new questions have been added to the FLEX-5000
FAQ; specifically Q40 to Q43.  

The answer for Q38 was expanded to include more detail.

 

http://kb.flex-radio.com/article.aspx?id=10374

 

-Tim

-

FRS KB Administrator

 

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[Flexradio] KB Flex5000

Quick question:
Q40:Q40. Will the FLEX-5000's low-pass filters prevent authorized 
operation outside of the amateur bands?

A. The filters are optimized for the amateur bands but will operate 
over the entire HF spectrum. We lock transmitter TR relay in firmware 
and require a valid license to receive a key to operate outside of 
ITU recognized bandplans.



Does this mean that there's a embedded firmware component that looks 
at the commands going to the DDS to set the frequency?

That is, the interface to the hardware (at a register level) is different?
(I assumed that this would be the case)

Will the control protocol be published?
What form does it take; e.g. does it use IEEE-1394b usual approach 
providing a model of shared memory on the host( the SDR5000) that the 
client (the PC) modifies?


James Lux, P.E.
Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group
Flight Communications Systems Section
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena CA 91109
tel: (818)354-2075
fax: (818)393-6875 
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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

2007-04-16 Thread petervn

according Q40,
 
How about amateuf frequencys in other regions, I understand that
is not a list in database format in the 5000???
 
thanks  73 de peter pa0pvn
 
groeten Peter
petervn(a)hetnet.nl mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ; pa0pvn(a)hetnet.nl 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   ;
pa0pvn(a)gmail.com ; pa0pvn(a)amsat.org .
 



Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] namens Jim Lux
Verzonden: ma 16-4-2007 19:03
Aan: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Onderwerp: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000



Quick question:
Q40:Q40. Will the FLEX-5000's low-pass filters prevent authorized
operation outside of the amateur bands?

A. The filters are optimized for the amateur bands but will operate
over the entire HF spectrum. We lock transmitter TR relay in firmware
and require a valid license to receive a key to operate outside of
ITU recognized bandplans.



Does this mean that there's a embedded firmware component that looks
at the commands going to the DDS to set the frequency?

That is, the interface to the hardware (at a register level) is different?
(I assumed that this would be the case)

Will the control protocol be published?
What form does it take; e.g. does it use IEEE-1394b usual approach
providing a model of shared memory on the host( the SDR5000) that the
client (the PC) modifies?


James Lux, P.E.
Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group
Flight Communications Systems Section
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena CA 91109
tel: (818)354-2075
fax: (818)393-6875
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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

On 4/16/07, Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Quick question:
 Q40:Q40. Will the FLEX-5000's low-pass filters prevent authorized
 operation outside of the amateur bands?

 A. The filters are optimized for the amateur bands but will operate
 over the entire HF spectrum. We lock transmitter TR relay in firmware
 and require a valid license to receive a key to operate outside of
 ITU recognized bandplans.

 

 Does this mean that there's a embedded firmware component that looks
 at the commands going to the DDS to set the frequency?

 That is, the interface to the hardware (at a register level) is different?
 (I assumed that this would be the case)

 Will the control protocol be published?
 What form does it take; e.g. does it use IEEE-1394b usual approach
 providing a model of shared memory on the host( the SDR5000) that the
 client (the PC) modifies?


 James Lux, P.E.
 Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group
 Flight Communications Systems Section
 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213
 4800 Oak Grove Drive
 Pasadena CA 91109
 tel: (818)354-2075
 fax: (818)393-6875
 -- next part --
 An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

This does not sound like good news.  It sounds as if certain features
of the hardware will be controlled by firmware and without the source
code to the firmware, you will not be able to make changes to the
operation of the radio (those that the firmware restricts or
controls).  I hope that Flex is not going down the road of proprietary
firmware like other manufacturers do.

This means that if Flex does not make the source code to the firmware
available and for some reason Flex goes belly up in the future no
longer supporting the radio, you are stuck with the radio AS-IS.
Let's hope this is not the case.

At least with the SDR-1000 you pretty much have control over all of
the hardware features of the radio by modifying the PowerSDR source
code.

So, another question for the FAQ would be:  How much of the SDR-5000's
operation is controlled/restricted by the radio's firmware and does
Flex intend to make the firmware's source code available as open
source?

Phil N8VB

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[Flexradio] NTIA redbook for SDR5K

From the FAQ:

Q41. Will the FLEX-5000 meet NTIA specs for use on federal government
frequencies, such as for use by MARS, Civil Air Patrol, and USCG Auxiliary?

A. The standard FLEX-5000 models A C have frequency accuracy of 0.5
ppm and the D model will have 0.005 ppm. We have not tested outside
the amateur bands yet so we would need to do that testing to confirm
compliance with the Redbook.

---
Having gone through this in a related connection, I'd caution that
there's quite a bit more to Redbook compliance than frequency
accuracy. There's also a spurious signal mask that is fairly tough
to meet, on both Tx and Rx. I'm pretty sure that the Flex can get
there, but verification might be challenging.

NTIA might also have some requirements with respect to verification
of the software version and calibration parameters(i.e. that the
software load you are using is the same as the one you met the specs with)

Section 5.3.1 of the Redbook has all the specific requirements. e.g.
carrier suppression 50dBc if it's more than 3x signal bandwidth
away... the 50 microwatt maximum spurious emission (-13 dBm)
regardless of transmitter output, etc. This last one is potentially
tough.. radiate 100W (+50dBm) and you need have ALL spurious signals
down 63 dB (that includes things like the image)

On receive, life is a bit easier.. there's only a slope of the
filters requirement, but a question remains of how far does that slope go

James Lux, P.E.
Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group
Flight Communications Systems Section
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena CA 91109
tel: (818)354-2075
fax: (818)393-6875
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[Flexradio] Addition to KB Flex5000

2007-04-16 Thread Luer Luetkens

May I extend this frequently asked question by: I the Flex5k still an 
open software SDR? (I might mention that I bought the 1k only because it 
has open software. I would certainly buy a not open software rig.)
Luer, DF5TP

Jim Lux schrieb:

Quick question:
Q40:Q40. Will the FLEX-5000's low-pass filters prevent authorized 
operation outside of the amateur bands?

A. The filters are optimized for the amateur bands but will operate 
over the entire HF spectrum. We lock transmitter TR relay in firmware 
and require a valid license to receive a key to operate outside of 
ITU recognized bandplans.



Does this mean that there's a embedded firmware component that looks 
at the commands going to the DDS to set the frequency?

That is, the interface to the hardware (at a register level) is different?
(I assumed that this would be the case)

Will the control protocol be published?
What form does it take; e.g. does it use IEEE-1394b usual approach 
providing a model of shared memory on the host( the SDR5000) that the 
client (the PC) modifies?


James Lux, P.E.
Spacecraft Radio Frequency Subsystems Group
Flight Communications Systems Section
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Mail Stop 161-213
4800 Oak Grove Drive
Pasadena CA 91109
tel: (818)354-2075
fax: (818)393-6875 
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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

At 10:28 AM 4/16/2007, Philip Covington wrote:
O

This does not sound like good news.  It sounds as if certain features
of the hardware will be controlled by firmware and without the source
code to the firmware, you will not be able to make changes to the
operation of the radio (those that the firmware restricts or
controls).  I hope that Flex is not going down the road of proprietary
firmware like other manufacturers do.

Or, to take a more benign view, the firmware is like that inside the 
existing USB-RS232 and USB-Parallel converters, for which one 
wouldn't have any expectation of being opensource.

There'a a fair number of 1394b to whatever widgets out there that 
give you a standards compliant implementation with the licensing fees 
all paid, etc.

What one wouldn't want to do is try do demand that the 1394 
implementation itself be open source.  I just priced some 1394b cores 
for an FPGA and they run around $100K for the equivalent of a black 
box you can drop into your design.  If you want source, it would be 
substantially more. And, it goes without saying that the whole thing, 
even in the cheaper version, is wrapped inside many layers of NDA.

So, let's assume that there's some nice 1394 chipset that has the 
1394 PHY on one side, and some sort of generic interface on the other.



At least with the SDR-1000 you pretty much have control over all of
the hardware features of the radio by modifying the PowerSDR source
code.

Indeed.. one can easily operate illegally, and that's as it should be 
for an experimentation platform.

However, as a consumer product perhaps not.  The more that the 
product of Flex-radio starts to look like a box (as opposed to 
parts), the more likely that it will require various and sundry forms 
of regulatory compliance.  I think that horse is already out of the 
barn (viz the inability to do scanning in the official PowerSDR releases).

BUT, I don't see this being a huge problem, as long as the interfaces 
are exposed.  It's not like people want to see the microcode inside 
the DDS's internal controller, or are clamoring for changes in the 
DDS internals.  Whatever is firmware controlled in the Flex 5K 
makes it more hardware than software, just as you don't (usually) 
go in and change component values on the PCBs, or the pinout of the opamps.

OTOH, if the firmware interface starts to look very high level.. say 
like CAT commands, and a significant part of the signal processing 
gets hidden behind that interface, I can see your concern.

And, another thing to consider.. perhaps the SDR nK has grown 
up?  It's not a experimenter's platform any more?



Jim, W6RMK 



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[Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Jim McLester

I am wondering if there is some problem with USB that precludes its use 
here?

A few months ago I went thru the same exercise re:  1394 , and in 
looking at canned alternatives, I was sort of informed by TI that 
firewire was going away (I don't see evidence of this yet) and that USB 
was the way to go.

The FPGA black box cost is similar, but there seem to be several canned 
options.

Jim McLester - AI4VX (still!)


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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

On 4/16/07, Jim Lux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 10:28 AM 4/16/2007, Philip Covington wrote:
 O
 
 This does not sound like good news.  It sounds as if certain features
 of the hardware will be controlled by firmware and without the source
 code to the firmware, you will not be able to make changes to the
 operation of the radio (those that the firmware restricts or
 controls).  I hope that Flex is not going down the road of proprietary
 firmware like other manufacturers do.

 Or, to take a more benign view, the firmware is like that inside the
 existing USB-RS232 and USB-Parallel converters, for which one
 wouldn't have any expectation of being opensource.

 There'a a fair number of 1394b to whatever widgets out there that
 give you a standards compliant implementation with the licensing fees
 all paid, etc.

 What one wouldn't want to do is try do demand that the 1394
 implementation itself be open source.  I just priced some 1394b cores
 for an FPGA and they run around $100K for the equivalent of a black
 box you can drop into your design.  If you want source, it would be
 substantially more. And, it goes without saying that the whole thing,
 even in the cheaper version, is wrapped inside many layers of NDA.

 So, let's assume that there's some nice 1394 chipset that has the
 1394 PHY on one side, and some sort of generic interface on the other.



 At least with the SDR-1000 you pretty much have control over all of
 the hardware features of the radio by modifying the PowerSDR source
 code.

 Indeed.. one can easily operate illegally, and that's as it should be
 for an experimentation platform.

 However, as a consumer product perhaps not.  The more that the
 product of Flex-radio starts to look like a box (as opposed to
 parts), the more likely that it will require various and sundry forms
 of regulatory compliance.  I think that horse is already out of the
 barn (viz the inability to do scanning in the official PowerSDR releases).

 BUT, I don't see this being a huge problem, as long as the interfaces
 are exposed.  It's not like people want to see the microcode inside
 the DDS's internal controller, or are clamoring for changes in the
 DDS internals.  Whatever is firmware controlled in the Flex 5K
 makes it more hardware than software, just as you don't (usually)
 go in and change component values on the PCBs, or the pinout of the opamps.

 OTOH, if the firmware interface starts to look very high level.. say
 like CAT commands, and a significant part of the signal processing
 gets hidden behind that interface, I can see your concern.

 And, another thing to consider.. perhaps the SDR nK has grown
 up?  It's not a experimenter's platform any more?



 Jim, W6RMK

Let's hope that this is just a miscommunication and there is no
firmware to restrict things like frequency coverage.  Maybe the FAQ
writer was referring the the PowerSDR software when he mentioned the
lock out.

73 Phil N8VB

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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

2007-04-16 Thread Frank Brickle

 Let's hope that this is just a miscommunication and there is no
 firmware to restrict things like frequency coverage.  Maybe the FAQ
 writer was referring the the PowerSDR software when he mentioned the
 lock out.


Either way, it's a little more serious than that. The component SDR-5000
might be exempt, but the models with embedded controllers are likely to be
prohibited from using GPL software.

73
Frank
AB2KT
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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

On 4/16/07, Frank Brickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  Let's hope that this is just a miscommunication and there is no
  firmware to restrict things like frequency coverage.  Maybe the FAQ
  writer was referring the the PowerSDR software when he mentioned the
  lock out.

 Either way, it's a little more serious than that. The component SDR-5000
 might be exempt, but the models with embedded controllers are likely to be
 prohibited from using GPL software.

 73
 Frank
 AB2KT

The firewire audio and control interface pretty much needs a
microprocessor and the microprocessor needs firmware, so I guess it is
not a miscommunication.  So, there will be firmware in the SDR-5000
that sits between PowerSDR and the hardware.   I guess a lot depends
on how much information is published about the firmware functions.

73 Phil N8VB

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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

At 11:35 AM 4/16/2007, Jim McLester wrote:
I am wondering if there is some problem with USB that precludes its use
here?

A few months ago I went thru the same exercise re:  1394 , and in
looking at canned alternatives, I was sort of informed by TI that
firewire was going away (I don't see evidence of this yet) and that USB
was the way to go.

Interesting... Considering that 1394b is being widely promulgated as 
an avionics bus standard, in the guise of SAE-AS5643.  I'm not 
particularly wild about it (I prefer others, personally), but it does 
have some traction.  OTOH, it wouldn't be the first time that the 
avionics/spacecraft industry picks and sticks with a standard for 
long after the original justification has gone away (e.g. 24VDC power)


Jim, W6RMK 



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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

At 11:50 AM 4/16/2007, Frank Brickle wrote:
  Let's hope that this is just a miscommunication and there is no
  firmware to restrict things like frequency coverage.  Maybe the FAQ
  writer was referring the the PowerSDR software when he mentioned the
  lock out.


Either way, it's a little more serious than that. The component SDR-5000
might be exempt, but the models with embedded controllers are likely to be
prohibited from using GPL software.

Because of GPL? or because of Part 15?

 From a Part 15 sort of standpoint, it would be straightforward to 
design a hardware platform that still allows the bulk of user 
interface and signal processing to be done in an open way, while 
preventing emissions in places it shouldn't radiate, etc.

Not that it would be pretty, but it's fairly do-able.  I believe 
there's a commercial HF power amplifier that implements something 
like this, with a frequency restriction in a microcontroller that 
samples the input, and doesn't turn on the DC to the output unless 
it's in band.

heck, just restricting where you can tune the DDS, tied to the sample 
rate on the audio section (especially if you put some switchable LP 
filters in the audio) would probably do well enough.






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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

2007-04-16 Thread Toby Deinhardt

Hi,

this may be nit picking, but ...


 A. The filters are optimized for the amateur bands but will operate
 over the entire HF spectrum. We lock transmitter TR relay in
 firmware and require a valid license to receive a key to operate
 outside of ITU recognized bandplans.


1) With the open source nature of the software, this does not really
mean anything. I doubt that it would very difficult to unlock the
spectrum between the amateur bands.

2) What kind of license? An Amateur Radio License?

3) No license - No TX: appears not to be planned. Why try and lock the
non-amateur QRGs, while not locking the TX for amateur bands, for
those who do not have a valid license?



vy 73 de toby
-- 
DD5FZ, 4N6FZ (ex dj7mgq, dg5mgq, dd5fz)
K2 #885, K2/100 #3248
DOK C12, BCC, DL-QRP-AG


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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

2007-04-16 Thread Toby Deinhardt

Hi Phil,

you assume of course, that there is more firmware than just a 
controller for the firewire. I made the sloppy assumption that the 
firmware is the console, which is open source.

vy 73 de toby 


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[Flexradio] Problems loading SDR-x svn 1143

2007-04-16 Thread Ignacio Cembreros

Just testing SDR-X svn 1143 and it stops loading when at 4 seconds to 
complete.  I use Win 2k and up to svn 1139 it loaded without any problem.
Does anybody noticed this problem?

-- 
73 de Ignacio, EB4APL


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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

At 02:23 PM 4/16/2007, Frank Brickle wrote:
On 4/16/07, Jim Lux
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Either way, it's a little more serious than that. The component SDR-5000
might be exempt, but the models with embedded controllers are likely to be
prohibited from using GPL software.

Because of GPL? or because of Part 15?

GPL. Version 3 has what amounts to a counter-DRM provision that
says, basically, if you're distributing GPL software and it's
running on locked hardware, you're obligated to enable either (1) a
method for users to replace the locked-hardware keys with their own
keys, or (2) replace the locked firmware entirely.

And how would this comport with, e.g., a USB to RS232 interface that
the software treats as a serial port? I suppose that's not locked
hardware in the sense you mean?

I would assume that the firmware/hardware in the future Flex-Radios
would fall in a similar case.. it might implement a IEEE-1394b
interface to the DDS which exposes some set of functions, and that's
it. I don't see this as being materially different than the USB
dongle providing access to a baudrate control register, and only
providing some subset of all possible baudrates the hardware might
conceivably generate, if you were free to muck around with the
digital frequency divisors internally.

Or, for that matter, the 1394b interface itself. It incorporates
patented aspects which are licensed by the consortium, and I see
little difference between a ASIC that implements the interface and a
FPGA that implements the interface. Or, would it be your contention
that in order to be fully GPL3 compliant, the software would have to
have unfettered access to the physical layer bits?

Anyone who's interested in DRM issues should bone up on the
discussions concerning GPL v3. Thanks to the ...or any later
version... clause in GPL v2, the version now in draft will probably
be the law of the Free Software universe before very long.

There is, of course, quite a bit of discussion with respect to GPLV3
(e.g. Linus isn't particularly wild about it).

Is it a reasonable assumption that PowerSDR would be released under
GPL v3, or GPL v2, or under some other license? What about all the
bits and pieces needed to make it work (jack, portaudio, dttsp, pthreads, etc.)

Could *anyone* release a GPL v3 visual studio application,
considering that such applications are so thoroughly bound up with
the microsoft windows guts.

I confess I've not been following all the twists and turns of GPL v3,
since my work tends to either be closed or totally open (as in do
with it what you will, the taxpayers paid for it).

Jim
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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

On 4/16/07, Toby Deinhardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Phil,

 you assume of course, that there is more firmware than just a
 controller for the firewire. I made the sloppy assumption that the
 firmware is the console, which is open source.

 vy 73 de toby



Yes, of course.  I am assuming that the FAQ actually means what it
says unless Flex changes it.  Right now it says that the band limits
are locked in firmware.

73 Phil N8VB

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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

At 03:02 PM 4/16/2007, Philip Covington wrote:


If the radio's operation is locked in firmware and the firmware is
closed source then it does mean something.  Unless you reverse
engineer the firmware you are out of luck unless Flex decides you are
worthy of a firmware update to unlock the radio.



I'm sure the flex folk have been furiously formulating a response to 
all of our speculation, little realizing what a firestorm an offhand 
FAQ might trigger.

I just throw some more gasoline on the fire, out of sheer 
cussedness... reverse engineering the firmware would be illegal in 
the United States because of the DMCA anti-circumvention rules.

I'm going to assume that they will be doing the benign thing.. 
implementing some reasonably intelligent abstraction to translate 
1394 messages (IP packets?) into hardware commands and responses, and 
stream audio in and out with isochronous streams (or even better, IP 
packets with RTP?)


Jim, W6RMK 



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[Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)

2007-04-16 Thread Bruce K3CMZ


Hi
 I am looking for the older versions of the software SDRConsole
in Visual Basic, anyone know where I could find this?

 Also I would like to browse the first forum that had lots of info
on the first version of the SDR-1000, which I got, but I can not
find it!'the forum that is,not the radio'!

 Sure hope this info is still around!

 Thanks Much
 Bruce K3CMZ


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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

2007-04-16 Thread John Ackermann N8UR

Jim Lux said the following on 04/16/2007 06:23 PM:

 I'm sure the flex folk have been furiously formulating a response to 
 all of our speculation, little realizing what a firestorm an offhand 
 FAQ might trigger.
 
 I just throw some more gasoline on the fire, out of sheer 
 cussedness... reverse engineering the firmware would be illegal in 
 the United States because of the DMCA anti-circumvention rules.

I wouldn't leap to that conclusion.  The anti-circumvention rules apply
only to attempts to work around an effective means of content
protection and a couple of court cases have recently held that
encryption or locks that aren't related to a copyrightable content
stream can't rely on the DMCA.*

John

* One case involved a Lexmark printer that had a CPU in the toner
cartridge; if the CPU didn't handshake with the printer, it wouldn't
work.  The court held that reverse engineering that interface didn't
violate the DMCA.  The second case involved a universal garage door
opener remote control that reverse engineered a rolling code
algorithm.  The court there also held that breaing that algorithm didn't
violate the DMCA.  The main reasoning in both cases is that the
mechanisms weren't protecting copyrightable material (like a movie or
music) and therefore the DMCA didn't apply.

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[Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread jim davis

Gentlemen,

Flex has'nt even introduced the NEW 5000 but yet everybody seems to be ripping 
it to SHREDDS!!! 
 WHY???

I'm a potential FLEXIE and we really think that from the stand point of 
NOISE-SUPPRESSION like 
in my crappy/noisey enviroment that this particular rig will be a GAWD-SEND!!!

So I'd say to give the Engineers a chance before demanding too much out of 
something that AIN'T 
REALLY HERE YET!!!

GEEZ!

Jim/nn6ee
Concord, Ca.

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Re: [Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)

Go to the web site and open the Support drop down menu.  Select
Downloads.
Set the filters to PowerSDR and Software:FlexRadio and click on search.
All of the previous software will be listed.

-Tim
-
FRS KB Administrator

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce K3CMZ
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:27 PM
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: [Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)


Hi
 I am looking for the older versions of the software SDRConsole
in Visual Basic, anyone know where I could find this?

 Also I would like to browse the first forum that had lots of info
on the first version of the SDR-1000, which I got, but I can not
find it!'the forum that is,not the radio'!

 Sure hope this info is still around!

 Thanks Much
 Bruce K3CMZ


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Re: [Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)

2007-04-16 Thread Bruce K3CMZ

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:39:02 -0400, you wrote:

flexradio@flex-radio.biz

Hi Tim
 I might be missing something here,

 I am looking for the Visual Basic Soft Ware

'SDRConsole not 'PowerSDR'

 But I have been where you suggested 
and found PowerSDR!

Thanks for your help, hope the old stuff
is not lost!

 Bruce K3CMZ


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Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

On 4/16/07, jim davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Gentlemen,

 Flex has'nt even introduced the NEW 5000 but yet everybody seems to be 
 ripping it to SHREDDS!!!
  WHY???

 I'm a potential FLEXIE and we really think that from the stand point of 
 NOISE-SUPPRESSION like
 in my crappy/noisey enviroment that this particular rig will be a 
 GAWD-SEND!!!

 So I'd say to give the Engineers a chance before demanding too much out of 
 something that AIN'T
 REALLY HERE YET!!!

 GEEZ!

 Jim/nn6ee
 Concord, Ca.

No one is ripping it to shreds.  The posts are on topic.  We are
discussing the new radio.  The best way to make a good purchasing
decision is by discussion.

Phil N8VB

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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Terry Fox

I really don't believe firewire is going away.  Not only is it THE
standard for video transfers from cameras to non-linear editors (consumer to
broadcast, DV to HD), it is also planned to be one standard for connecting
set-top-boxes to HDTV sets.  Unfortunately, there is a move to include DRM
in firewire.

The original firewire is slower than the newer USB standard, but there is a
newer firewire standard that is faster than USB.  Having said that, USB does
appear easier for homebrew projects.
Terry

- Original Message - 
From: Jim McLester [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: [Flexradio] fire/usb


 I am wondering if there is some problem with USB that precludes its use
 here?

 A few months ago I went thru the same exercise re:  1394 , and in
 looking at canned alternatives, I was sort of informed by TI that
 firewire was going away (I don't see evidence of this yet) and that USB
 was the way to go.

 The FPGA black box cost is similar, but there seem to be several canned
 options.

 Jim McLester - AI4VX (still!)


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Re: [Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)

I look through the archives I have access to and can not find it.  Maybe
Eric knows where the old VB source code is located

-Tim, W4TME
-

-Original Message-
From: Bruce K3CMZ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:53 PM
To: Tim Ellison
Cc: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Old Stuff Question (from the dark age)

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:39:02 -0400, you wrote:

flexradio@flex-radio.biz

Hi Tim
 I might be missing something here,

 I am looking for the Visual Basic Soft Ware

'SDRConsole not 'PowerSDR'

 But I have been where you suggested 
and found PowerSDR!

Thanks for your help, hope the old stuff
is not lost!

 Bruce K3CMZ


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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

2007-04-16 Thread Robert McGwier

GPL v3 is trumped by federal law as determined by the communications 
hegemony on 1919 M STREET N.W.  The Flex 5000 will be required to submit 
for several certifications and will require FLEX to have certain locks 
on its hardware to meet certain certifications.  This will get even 
worse when Flex tries to submit for the ability to scan (part 15: CFR 
47, Part 15, Subpart B).   For example, Flex must submit proof that the 
receiver has no spurs that can be tuned onto Cell towers and mix the 
cell tower into the bands it DOES cover directly.  GPL has absolutely 
nothing to say about any of this since no license can violate federal 
law (if you want to stay in business for long and out of the large fines 
associated).  I would prefer to have the scanning capability so I can 
run cognitive code (for example) doing something useful.  This is 
scanning the minute we do it because the rules SAY that it is.  When 
we do this,  Flex must have submitted their radio to the testing that 
shows it cannot respond up to a certain specified level to emissions on 
cellular telephone towers.  It is crazy, but congress is still livid 
about Newt's silly phone call being overheard and it is congress that 
has mandated this.

If what is meant by some in this conversation is: Will the code require 
interaction with the hardware to work?  No, that is not the case, there 
are no secret handshakes in the code.  The code will have no check at 
all to see if the hardware is compliant or licensed or anything.  The 
code will fail to start the nonexistent hardware connected on firewire 
just as ANY code would, GPL or not, that expects a device to be there 
which is not.  It will be just as if you told it to talk to an FA-66 
that was not there. It will issue an error message and fail. But all of 
the code interacting with the hardware is visible now in the branch save 
the driver which will be distributed separately once the hardware is 
released.  That is as it should be and PowerSDR will surely fail if you 
tell it to hook to a firewire device that is not there!  It seems absurd 
to suggest however that GPL ANY version code cannot work with (say) a 
sound card just because it has proprietary code associated with it. 
Ubuntu supports Nvidia drivers for my machines and I download them using 
Ubuntu's installation tool.  They surely know more about GPL than I do 
and I am sure they know more than all of us combined. IF Flex 
distributes driver's for their hardware under separate cover, and 
clearly marked as non-GPL,  it will be the same thing entirely.  All 
Stallman will do with a v3 that prevents this is make Microsoft very 
happy indeed.  If I were Ballmer,  I would be sending him money to 
support v3 to have this outcome.

Consider the Flex 5000 to be a very fancy sound card.  Its drivers, etc. 
can be distributed separately from all GPL code.  Should Flex distribute 
the drivers for their hardware just as sound card manufacturers now do, 
  under separate cover,  it is clear they are compliant unless FSF 
changes the rules. For all I know,  Flex may give it away, except for 
those pieces which THEY DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS to distribute, such as some 
of the hardware associated with the firewire.  They must comply with 
those licenses and rather than have no radio at all, I presume we all 
want them to comply with their hardware driver requirements.  Flex users 
have become quite accustomed to going to Roland, M-Audio,etc. for the 
drivers.  The super fancy Flex 5000 sound card would be no different 
whatsoever and no one would suggest that it would be a good outcome if 
GPL code would be forced not to work with these sound cards OR the fancy 
Flex 5000 sound card.  I know Stallman would LIKE to prevent the use 
of GPL code with proprietary hardware drivers and about all he will 
accomplish is to utterly wreck the GPL IMO.

On out of band operation:

The Flex 5000 hardware will work outside of the ham bands and especially 
for those MARS frequencies that are near ham bands but I suspect what 
will happen is that like ALL amateur radio manufacturers,  no specs will 
be provided for the radio out of band.  The filters are definitely 
optimized for the ham bands.  I even suspect that if you operate 
sufficiently below the ham bands significantly inside a filter that 
covers a ham band, the third order harmonics will not be sufficient 
suppressed.  But that is the nature of doing UNINTENDED use of a piece 
of equipment. I expect will be not much different than ICOM, Yaesu, 
Kenwood, Ten Tec, etc. and their bandpass filters optimized for the ham 
bands.

NTIS has just made the out of band operation requirements SO severe  in 
any case, in terms of spurious emissions requirements, that NOT ONE 
amateur radio transmitter currently manufactured, that I know of, can 
meet it.  This is almost surely the manufacturers of expensive equipment 
winning the day to prevent inexpensive amateur equipment from being used 
out there.  This will

Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Original Message

Flex has'nt even introduced the NEW 5000 but yet everybody seems to 
be ripping it to SHREDDS!!! 
 WHY???

Possibly because some of us bought into the original dream.  Followed 
it by spending our money on the original hardware, suffered the PA 
failures and paid for the repairs and upgrades, then bought the 
enhanced hardware with the PA, expensive external soundcard options and 
these did not work properly either.

So, you will excuse us if we are now skeptical about the latest, and 
twice as expensive. ultimate SDR radio...

Dave (G0DJA)





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[Flexradio] FW: Problems loading SDR-x svn 1143

2007-04-16 Thread N3WT


Ignacio,
I had the same problem.  On svn-x 1143 the loading would freeze at about 4
seconds to complete.  Previous SVN-X's loaded ok.  I even renamed
PowerSDR.mdb, which in previous loading problems usually took care of it.
I finally deleted all files in the SVN-X folder and started over.  I  made a
full  fresh download by SVN-X-Checkout.  Now svnx 1143 loads up and
operating fine.   Looks like some significant changes to test out in svn-X
1143 .

I do  keep separate folders of svn-(not the svn-x branch) and also the
official release,  just in case.   Of course, you can always revert back to
previous working versions of svnx too.

73  John, N3WT.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ignacio Cembreros
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:14 PM
To: Flex radio
Subject: [Flexradio] Problems loading SDR-x svn 1143

Just testing SDR-X svn 1143 and it stops loading when at 4 seconds to
complete.  I use Win 2k and up to svn 1139 it loaded without any problem.
Does anybody noticed this problem?

--
73 de Ignacio, EB4APL


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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

2007-04-16 Thread Frank Brickle

On 4/16/07, Robert McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

GPL v3 is trumped by federal law as determined by the communications
 hegemony on 1919 M STREET N.W.


What  I do believe you've succeeded in showing here is that the whole issue
is far from clearly drawn. What I don't believe is that the arguments you've
offered are more than voodoo analogies.

For example, the GPL in any version isn't trumped by federal law --
unless, of course, you mean that some federal law rules out using some
software entirely. That's possible.

The logic goes downhill from there, but the whole subject gets tiresome very
quickly, so, enough.

73
Frank
AB2KT
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Re: [Flexradio] FW: Problems loading SDR-x svn 1143

2007-04-16 Thread Ignacio Cembreros

N3WT wrote:
 Ignacio,
 I had the same problem.  On svn-x 1143 the loading would freeze at about 4
 seconds to complete.  Previous SVN-X's loaded ok.  I even renamed
 PowerSDR.mdb, which in previous loading problems usually took care of it.
 I finally deleted all files in the SVN-X folder and started over.  I  made a
 full  fresh download by SVN-X-Checkout.  Now svnx 1143 loads up and
 operating fine.   Looks like some significant changes to test out in svn-X
 1143 .

 I do  keep separate folders of svn-(not the svn-x branch) and also the
 official release,  just in case.   Of course, you can always revert back to
 previous working versions of svnx too.

 73  John, N3WT.


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ignacio Cembreros
 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:14 PM
 To: Flex radio
 Subject: [Flexradio] Problems loading SDR-x svn 1143

 Just testing SDR-X svn 1143 and it stops loading when at 4 seconds to
 complete.  I use Win 2k and up to svn 1139 it loaded without any problem.
 Does anybody noticed this problem?

 --
 73 de Ignacio, EB4APL


   

John,
It worked for me also, thank you.
The reason for asking here before posting a bug report was to know if it 
was a real problem or something unique to my configuration.  It seems to 
be related to Tortoise svn, I think, so I'll have to close the bug 
report already posted.

-- 
73 de Ignacio, EB4APL


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Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread Larry W8ER

Bob,

Don't give up. There are those of us out here that love the radio. I 
can't say that I am not distressed to see the bickering but I just had 
several very nice QSO's with my Flex today . It's a great product! It 
has refreshed my interest in the hobby which is beyond the price of the 
radio and allows me to ignore the bickering. I hope you can see it that 
way too!

--Larry W8ER

Bob Maser wrote:
 I'm tired of all this endless bickering. I just deleted over 500 emails from 
 this reflector.  How do I unsubscribe?

 Bob W6TR
 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!


   
 
 Original Message
   
 Flex has'nt even introduced the NEW 5000 but yet everybody seems to
   
 be ripping it to SHREDDS!!!
 
 WHY???
   
 Possibly because some of us bought into the original dream.  Followed
 it by spending our money on the original hardware, suffered the PA
 failures and paid for the repairs and upgrades, then bought the
 enhanced hardware with the PA, expensive external soundcard options and
 these did not work properly either.

 So, you will excuse us if we are now skeptical about the latest, and
 twice as expensive. ultimate SDR radio...

 Dave (G0DJA)





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 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

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Re: [Flexradio] KB Flex5000

At 04:42 PM 4/16/2007, Robert McGwier wrote:
GPL v3 is trumped by federal law as determined by the communications
hegemony on 1919 M STREET N.W.  The Flex 5000 will be required to submit
for several certifications and will require FLEX to have certain locks
on its hardware to meet certain certifications.  This will get even
worse when Flex tries to submit for the ability to scan (part 15: CFR
47, Part 15, Subpart B).   For example, Flex must submit proof that the
receiver has no spurs that can be tuned onto Cell towers and mix the
cell tower into the bands it DOES cover directly.

yep.. This IS a sticky wicket, although having a very simple RF 
structure means that meeting the test is easier (no worries about 
images of the IF, etc.)

clearly marked as non-GPL,  it will be the same thing entirely.  All
Stallman will do with a v3 that prevents this is make Microsoft very
happy indeed.  If I were Ballmer,  I would be sending him money to
support v3 to have this outcome.

Hence the turmoil in the GPL community about v3..



Consider the Flex 5000 to be a very fancy sound card.

This is sort of the model that I would think would be useful.. 
instead of just sending paramters that set sampling rates and gains 
and switch settings, you also send LO tuning frequency, cal tone 
on/off, tx/rx, etc.

But the real question is how smart is that sound card.  At one end 
of the spectrum is the new Icom PCR2500 (which has the sound card 
integrated).  At the other is some sort of firewire hub lashup with a 
FA66, a 1394/parallel converter, and some relays.



  Its drivers, etc.
can be distributed separately from all GPL code.  Should Flex distribute
the drivers for their hardware just as sound card manufacturers now do,
   under separate cover,  it is clear they are compliant unless FSF
changes the rules.

I think that's the thrust of RMS's efforts.. He wants the drivers to 
be GPL as well.



For all I know,  Flex may give it away, except for
those pieces which THEY DO NOT HAVE RIGHTS to distribute, such as some
of the hardware associated with the firewire.  They must comply with
those licenses and rather than have no radio at all, I presume we all
want them to comply with their hardware driver requirements.

Indeed...
We benefit greatly from the low cost of consumer equipment, which in 
a large part would not exist if someone couldn't make money from the 
IP embedded therein.

On out of band operation:

The Flex 5000 hardware will work outside of the ham bands and especially
for those MARS frequencies that are near ham bands but I suspect what
will happen is that like ALL amateur radio manufacturers,  no specs will
be provided for the radio out of band.  The filters are definitely
optimized for the ham bands.  I even suspect that if you operate
sufficiently below the ham bands significantly inside a filter that
covers a ham band, the third order harmonics will not be sufficient
suppressed.  But that is the nature of doing UNINTENDED use of a piece
of equipment. I expect will be not much different than ICOM, Yaesu,
Kenwood, Ten Tec, etc. and their bandpass filters optimized for the ham
bands.

And there is a move afoot in these NTIA regulated areas to start 
actually measuring the radios that people use, just because the mfrs 
don't guarantee the specs.


NTIS has just made the out of band operation requirements SO severe  in
any case, in terms of spurious emissions requirements, that NOT ONE
amateur radio transmitter currently manufactured, that I know of, can
meet it.

The spec has always been there.. it's just not been enforced 
before.  I don't have an old copy of the Red Book handy, but 
certainly as far back as 2003, the spurious emission requirements 
were the same. I'd suspect the requirements are based on 
MIL-STD-188-141.. rev B is 1999, rev A is 1988.  RevB calls out 
-60dBc for spurious signals more than 1kHz below the bottom edge of the signal.

Broadband noise (not discrete spurs) have to be 90 dB down (120 goal) 
for frequency more than 5% away from the carrier.
Discrete spurs more between 4 tiems the bandwidth and 5% of the 
center frequency have to be -60dBc, more than 5% away, -80dBc, and 
harmonics have to be -63dBc.

These requirements are quite similar to the redbook, and, in fact, 
the MIL-STD references the redbook with respect to modulations not 
specifically described in the standard.



   This is almost surely the manufacturers of expensive equipment
winning the day to prevent inexpensive amateur equipment from being used
out there.

I don't see it being as malevolently motivated... It's more a 
recognition of modern technical standards that are *easily* 
achievable in a mass produced radio.  For instance, the frequency 
control requirement is based on being able to tune a SSB voice 
channel without needing a clarifier.

Since those selfsame amateur equipment manufacturers also make fully 
compliant radios, with a design that's not much different than the 
amateur rig, the practical

Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread Alan NV8A

You must be reading a different mailing list from the one I've been 
reading. I've seen discussions but no bickering -- unless I classify the 
protests about the discussions bickering.

73

Alan NV8A
(not yet an owner of any SDR)


On 04/16/07 08:51 pm Bob Maser wrote:

 I'm tired of all this endless bickering. I just deleted over 500 emails from 
 this reflector.  How do I unsubscribe?


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Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread Marty

You know there is a way to stop the emails from being forwarded to 
you and still be subscribed to the yahoo group.  I have done this in 
other groups when there are too many discussions about one subject.

I would think that you would like to continue to be a member of this 
group and just log in to yahoo groups to see what is going on here 
without the constant emails about the same subject.

Marty
KG6QKJ
I am a new owner of an SDR-1000 and find that either Flex has some 
sort of brilliant marketing scheme (that I can't figure out) or have 
made a huge mistake in notifying the masses before the product is ready.



On 04/16/07 08:51 pm Bob Maser wrote:

  I'm tired of all this endless bickering. I just deleted over 500 
 emails from
  this reflector.  How do I unsubscribe?



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Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

2007-04-16 Thread Tony Morgan

And there many, many satisfied flex owners (like me) out there that read all 
this and don't post. We just sit back and enjoy the show.

Tony W7GO
- Original Message - 
From: Larry W8ER [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Bob Maser [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

 Bob,

 Don't give up. There are those of us out here that love the radio. I
 can't say that I am not distressed to see the bickering but I just had
 several very nice QSO's with my Flex today . It's a great product! It
 has refreshed my interest in the hobby which is beyond the price of the
 radio and allows me to ignore the bickering. I hope you can see it that
 way too!

 --Larry W8ER

 Bob Maser wrote:
 I'm tired of all this endless bickering. I just deleted over 500 emails 
 from
 this reflector.  How do I unsubscribe?

 Bob W6TR
 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 8:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

 Original Message

 Flex has'nt even introduced the NEW 5000 but yet everybody seems to

 be ripping it to SHREDDS!!!

 WHY???

 Possibly because some of us bought into the original dream.  Followed
 it by spending our money on the original hardware, suffered the PA
 failures and paid for the repairs and upgrades, then bought the
 enhanced hardware with the PA, expensive external soundcard options and
 these did not work properly either.

 So, you will excuse us if we are now skeptical about the latest, and
 twice as expensive. ultimate SDR radio...

 Dave (G0DJA)

 ___

 Tiscali Broadband only £9.99 a month for your first 3 months!
 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

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[Flexradio] [KB] The FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

Based on questions asked today on the Reflector, questions Q43, Q44 and
Q45 have been added.  

You can review the FLEX-5000 FAQ using this URL:

http://kb.flex-radio.com/article.aspx?id=10374

 

 

-Tim

-

FRS KB Administrator

 

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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Peter G. Viscarola

I thought the choice of 1394 was odd, as well.

I know several vendors that have been trying to MAKE Firewire go away,
and who WISH it would go away, even going so far as to threaten dropping
support for it.  Do you see 1394 ship in box in many PCs or laptops?
Not so much.  Heck, even the IPod uses USB.

Add to this the fact that 1394 host controllers vary widely in quality
and interoperability.

A USB-bus can provide bandwidth reservation and isochronous transfers,
so thus is very reasonable even for high-bandwidth audio data.

About the only place where 1394 excels over USB is when you need the
ability to distribute ownership of the bus -- a USB bus has one master
but a Firewire bus is effectively peer-to-peer.  When you need that type
of distributed control, 1394 is the right choice. But I don't really see
why that would be important between the host and the radio...

Mayhaps our friends from Flex can enlighten us as to their thinking...
just out of curiousity.

de Peter K1PGV


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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Gerald Youngblood

We searched the world for a USB solution that could do isochronous 192 KHz
transfers of 24/32-bits with 16 input and 16 outputs or 8 inputs and 8
outputs.  It doesn't exist unless I missed something.  I even talked with
vendors who supply both types of controllers and they told me that above 2
in and 2 out it is very hard to do isochronous communications.  Large,
multichannel audio systems are going FireWire.  We use 8 in and 8 out on the
5000, all running full bore.  

Bottom line, 1394 was designed for streaming video and audio.  USB was not.
The data rate is not the issue - throughput is.  

Gerald

Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR
FlexRadio Systems
Ph: 512-250-5435
Fax: 512-233-5143
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.flex-radio.com
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter 
 G. Viscarola
 Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:28 PM
 To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
 Subject: Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb
 
 I thought the choice of 1394 was odd, as well.
 
 I know several vendors that have been trying to MAKE Firewire 
 go away, and who WISH it would go away, even going so far as 
 to threaten dropping support for it.  Do you see 1394 ship 
 in box in many PCs or laptops?
 Not so much.  Heck, even the IPod uses USB.
 
 Add to this the fact that 1394 host controllers vary widely 
 in quality and interoperability.
 
 A USB-bus can provide bandwidth reservation and isochronous 
 transfers, so thus is very reasonable even for high-bandwidth 
 audio data.
 
 About the only place where 1394 excels over USB is when you 
 need the ability to distribute ownership of the bus -- a 
 USB bus has one master but a Firewire bus is effectively 
 peer-to-peer.  When you need that type of distributed 
 control, 1394 is the right choice. But I don't really see why 
 that would be important between the host and the radio...
 
 Mayhaps our friends from Flex can enlighten us as to their thinking...
 just out of curiousity.
 
 de Peter K1PGV
 
 
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 FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio 
 Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
 
 


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Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

Marty,

Referring to your statement, I am a new owner of an SDR-1000 and find
that either Flex has some sort of brilliant marketing scheme (that I
can't figure out) or have made a huge mistake in notifying the masses
before the product is ready. I have a few comments I'd like to share.

There is no brilliant marketing scheme involved; the FELX-5000 will
stand on its own merits.

Also, for your information, FlexRadio didn't notify the masses.  The
release of information about the FLEX-5000 was premature due to a select
few people getting early copy of the May QST article which contained the
advertisement for it.  The official introduction was not planned for
until this week.

Since FlexRadio has been inundated with questions regarding the
FLEX-5000, they are a few days behind getting information formalized for
public consumption.  There have been over 5000 downloads of the
advertisement and numerous calls to sales.  This was the reason the FAQ
was started so that the most important questions could be answered first
and made available to the public.

In coming days there will be more information made publicly available,
but it has to be 100% correct.  No ambiguity.  Copy is being proofed and
approved as this is being written, but it does not have the highest
priority at this moment. Finalizing the radio's performance testing has
taken precedence. 

The guys have been really hard at work seven days a week getting the
FLEX-5000 ready for prime time with a compressed schedule.

Please be patient.  Cut them some slack. I believe everyone will be very
pleasantly surprised if not overwhelmed by the fruits of their labor.

I will continue to provide any info I have at my disposal ASAP and
notify the Flex community via the Reflector.

-Tim
-
FRS KB Administrator

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marty
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:53 PM
To: FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] I'm really jazzed BUT...!

You know there is a way to stop the emails from being forwarded to 
you and still be subscribed to the yahoo group.  I have done this in 
other groups when there are too many discussions about one subject.

I would think that you would like to continue to be a member of this 
group and just log in to yahoo groups to see what is going on here 
without the constant emails about the same subject.

Marty
KG6QKJ
I am a new owner of an SDR-1000 and find that either Flex has some 
sort of brilliant marketing scheme (that I can't figure out) or have 
made a huge mistake in notifying the masses before the product is ready.



On 04/16/07 08:51 pm Bob Maser wrote:

  I'm tired of all this endless bickering. I just deleted over 500 
 emails from
  this reflector.  How do I unsubscribe?



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FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/


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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Peter G. Viscarola

Well, thank you Gerald.  To paraphrase: Looked at using USB, and it
couldn't meet the throughput requirements.

Sounds like just about the best possible reason to me,

de Peter K1PGV

P.S.  I just need to nit-pick a bit (it's the engineer in me).  You
wrote:


Bottom line, 1394 was designed for streaming video and audio.  USB was
not.


On this detail I beg to differ. USB was indeed designed with streaming
both video and audio.  Witness, USB support for isochronous transfers,
which is specifically FOR streaming audio and video.  Perhaps not the
bandwidth you require, but that's a different point.



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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Terry Fox

Almost every laptop I have looked at in the last year has a firewire
connector.  Many desktops as well.  It is the future (for now).

Some vendors may wish firewire would go away, but many PC users with that
Apple would go away.  To be fair, many Apple users wish that PCs would go
away.  I wish I could buy a good SDR for $100.  All the above have about the
same chances of becoming true.

For higher-speed, reliable data transfer, IEEE-1394 (firewire) is the way to
go.  NO enumeration issues.  No virtual-comm port kludges.  Faster than USB,
period.  Having said all that, I am using USB, as firewire is too expensive
to play with as a hobby.

Good choice by Flex.  They went from a parallel port, that was on its way
out when the SR-1000 was released, to firewire, which will support even
faster data transfer rates in the future.  I never understood the parallel
port usage back then, and thought USB should have been used for the SDR-1000
(this from someone who used to program parallel port bits in DOS, and CP/M
before that).  Jump right over USB for the 5000.
Terry


- Original Message - 
From: Peter G. Viscarola [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb


 I thought the choice of 1394 was odd, as well.

 I know several vendors that have been trying to MAKE Firewire go away,
 and who WISH it would go away, even going so far as to threaten dropping
 support for it.  Do you see 1394 ship in box in many PCs or laptops?
 Not so much.  Heck, even the IPod uses USB.

 Add to this the fact that 1394 host controllers vary widely in quality
 and interoperability.

 A USB-bus can provide bandwidth reservation and isochronous transfers,
 so thus is very reasonable even for high-bandwidth audio data.

 About the only place where 1394 excels over USB is when you need the
 ability to distribute ownership of the bus -- a USB bus has one master
 but a Firewire bus is effectively peer-to-peer.  When you need that type
 of distributed control, 1394 is the right choice. But I don't really see
 why that would be important between the host and the radio...

 Mayhaps our friends from Flex can enlighten us as to their thinking...
 just out of curiousity.

 de Peter K1PGV


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 FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
 FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/




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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Robert McGwier

Peter:

I get to differ back.

Forget Flex radio for a minute.  Look at pro audio cards.  IF USB 
could support these multiple channel devices doing isochronous 
communications and guarantee in order and on time delivery of the 
packets,  there would be professional audio cards everywhere since, as 
you have stated,  USB 2.0 is ubiquitous.

You cannot find a SINGLE USB professional sound card unless you want to 
include the M-Audiophile USB.  I do NOT wish to include it.  It is a 
poor performer, and delivers 2in and 2out.

On the other hand,  all of the high end sound card manufacturers deliver 
PCI and Firewire.  There is a statement in all of this somewhere.  These 
hard headed business types do not make these decisions lightly.

Bob
N4HY


Peter G. Viscarola wrote:
 Well, thank you Gerald.  To paraphrase: Looked at using USB, and it
 couldn't meet the throughput requirements.
 
 Sounds like just about the best possible reason to me,
 
 de Peter K1PGV
 
 P.S.  I just need to nit-pick a bit (it's the engineer in me).  You
 wrote:
 
 Bottom line, 1394 was designed for streaming video and audio.  USB was
 not.
 
 On this detail I beg to differ. USB was indeed designed with streaming
 both video and audio.  Witness, USB support for isochronous transfers,
 which is specifically FOR streaming audio and video.  Perhaps not the
 bandwidth you require, but that's a different point.
 
 

-- 
AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL,
TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair
Taking fun as simply fun and earnestness in earnest shows
how thoroughly thou none of the two discernest. - Piet Hine

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Re: [Flexradio] [KB] The FLEX-5000 FAQ has been updated

At 07:09 PM 4/16/2007, Tim Ellison wrote:
Based on questions asked today on the Reflector, questions Q43, Q44 and
Q45 have been added.

You can review the FLEX-5000 FAQ using this URL:

http://kb.flex-radio.com/article.aspx?id=10374



Precisely why Flex is great!!!  Ask, and you shall receive



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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb

2007-04-16 Thread Frank Brickle

On 4/16/07, Robert McGwier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On the other hand,  all of the high end sound card manufacturers deliver
 PCI and Firewire.  There is a statement in all of this somewhere.  These
 hard headed business types do not make these decisions lightly.


The real  motivator here is big-league multimedia post-production. The
high-end tools use FireWire, period. They work well and they work under very
pressured, complex, time-critical situations. You tend to stick with what
works...the people I know in that end of the business won't use anything
else.

73
Frank
AB2KT
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Re: [Flexradio] fire/usb