Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Don, Your problem is probably caused by excessive key bounce. The MicroHam debouncer will almost certainly solve the problem. http://www.microham-usa.com/Products/Begali.html Gerald Gerald Youngblood, K5SDR President FlexRadio Systems 13091 Pond Springs Rd. #250 Austin, TX 78729 Phone: 512-535-4713 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:30 PM To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available Ed I tried the settings specified with my F5K with the key plugged directly into the radio but I still experience delays or timing issues, lost elements of characters or incorrect characters, however, when I use a keyer plugged into the back of the radio I do not experience any problems. I am using a Bencher BY2 and a Logikit CMOS-4 keyer. One thing I just started noticing was when I make changes to the radio DSP so I can operate CW, I sometimes lose the audio. When I look at VAC it shows the channel being down. The fix is to restart PSDR. When I do make the changes the PSDR is not enabled. This has not happened before. Not a big deal though it took a few minutes to figure out what was happening. Don - kx9q ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Ed I tried the settings specified with my F5K with the key plugged directly into the radio but I still experience delays or timing issues, lost elements of characters or incorrect characters, however, when I use a keyer plugged into the back of the radio I do not experience any problems. I am using a Bencher BY2 and a Logikit CMOS-4 keyer. One thing I just started noticing was when I make changes to the radio DSP so I can operate CW, I sometimes lose the audio. When I look at VAC it shows the channel being down. The fix is to restart PSDR. When I do make the changes the PSDR is not enabled. This has not happened before. Not a big deal though it took a few minutes to figure out what was happening. Don - kx9q ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Hi Ed, Almost all nearly QSK CW T/R transition pops and clicks gone now with this latest version. However, every once in a while, as I am sending CW around 25 wpm, the radio will stop keying. When this happens, I have to click on the STOP button to stop, then restart PowerSDR, at which point all is OK again. I am using the same settings as you show below. CPU utilization shows around 10 percent. This has already happened during three or four QSO's (they wonder where I went). I am using Winkey, and plugged into the Keying Jack. Not a huge problem now, but will be if in a contest. By the way, this started occurring before the latest SVN. Dave, W5UN At 23:29 5/13/2008, you wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
There have been a couple of problem reports with the latest QSK mods. I considered reverting to the previous method, but decided to stay with then new way for two reasons: I can't figure how the problems reported relate to the QSK changes. And even if they do the way forward is with the new code. If you encounter probs with SVN 2200, try reverting to 2191. If it persists, try the test or trunk branch. This is experimental code implementing a new technique. Thanks for the bug reports and feedback. 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Thanks, Ed. BTW, what you describe as QSK is usually referred to as semi break in, or Semi QSK by CW ops. There is a world of difference. For the guys and gals out there who may not understand the distinction, CW ops refer to QSK as the ability to actually hear activity on the band between dits at a reasonable speed. Modern radios that actually do true QSK can do it at 30-50 WPM. I look forward to purchasing another 5000a (first was sent back for poor CW performance) if and when new software actually allows it to perform to this standard. I am pretty sure the 5000a hardware will allow this, but the following quote from Frank Brickel's April 26 post in the then-current CW QSK ability thread eliminated my hope that the current PowerSDR could _ever_ provide QSK: I think this line of discussion has run its course of usefulness. Development effort is being focused on doing it right, not patching the current system, which is basically unfixable in a systematic and maintainable way. If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. Jerry W4UK At 07:34 AM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Hi Jerry, It's a 5k. I don't think they apply to the 1k without a little coding. 73 Ed W2RF On 13 May 2008 at 22:14, Jerry Flanders wrote: What radio are you using, Ed? Jerry W4UK At 07:29 PM 5/13/2008, Ed Russell wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. That's not right. The entire audio subsystem inside the SDR software is being replaced. The new subsystem is common across all of the platforms, Windows included. It provides latencies as small as 64 samples. This isn't speculation; it already exists. What you're not going to see is the new audio subsystem merged with the old monolithic PowerSDR codebase. 73 Frank Brickle AB2KT -- The only thing we have to fear is whatever comes along next. -- Austin Cline ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
I have had this same experience (failure to key) a few times. At first, I thought it was contacts but then after cleaning, it happened a couple more times. Does not do this with CWX keyboard. PowerSDR tho has never stopped... just fails to key rig. I tried 1024 vs 512 but this did not appear to make any difference. Otherwise, I am very pleased with the CW improvements. Great work, Ed! Mel, K0PFX - Original Message - From: Dave Blaschke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; flexradio@flex-radio.biz Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:06 AM Subject: Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available Hi Ed, Almost all nearly QSK CW T/R transition pops and clicks gone now with this latest version. However, every once in a while, as I am sending CW around 25 wpm, the radio will stop keying. When this happens, I have to click on the STOP button to stop, then restart PowerSDR, at which point all is OK again. I am using the same settings as you show below. CPU utilization shows around 10 percent. This has already happened during three or four QSO's (they wonder where I went). I am using Winkey, and plugged into the Keying Jack. Not a huge problem now, but will be if in a contest. By the way, this started occurring before the latest SVN. Dave, W5UN At 23:29 5/13/2008, you wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Jerry has brought up an important point. We CW ops believe true QSK means hearing between dots at high speed. I thought so myself until I began looking closely at the performance of box-based rigs. There is an easy calculation that shows why true QSK is difficult: R/T + T/R - ES = Band Sound where R/T is time it takes to mute receiver and begin transmitting T/R is time it takes to stop transmitting and fully activate receiving ES is element spacing ES is 30ms at 40wpm ES is 40ms at 30wpm ES is 60ms at 20wpm Hit the key. It takes about 10-15ms to get a waveform started. Release the key. It takes about 15-20ms minimum for T/R turnaround; most rigs take 30 or more. That means in the best possible case R/T plus T/R turnaround takes 25ms. I measured the response of my 950SDX: R/T = 13ms T/R = 19ms That means no Band Sound at 40wpm. I measure 10ms of Band Sound at 30wpm, but subjectively that isn't enough to call useful. The 950SDX is an old radio, you might say. But if you look at the ARRL reviews the numbers are equal to or better than newer rigs. So, what is the rig that can really do QSK? The K3? Maybe, but it's a DSP rig too. Send me a tape :) 73 Ed W2RF On 14 May 2008 at 11:59, Jerry Flanders wrote: Thanks, Ed. BTW, what you describe as QSK is usually referred to as semi break in, or Semi QSK by CW ops. There is a world of difference. For the guys and gals out there who may not understand the distinction, CW ops refer to QSK as the ability to actually hear activity on the band between dits at a reasonable speed. Modern radios that actually do true QSK can do it at 30-50 WPM. I look forward to purchasing another 5000a (first was sent back for poor CW performance) if and when new software actually allows it to perform to this standard. I am pretty sure the 5000a hardware will allow this, but the following quote from Frank Brickel's April 26 post in the then-current CW QSK ability thread eliminated my hope that the current PowerSDR could _ever_ provide QSK: I think this line of discussion has run its course of usefulness. Development effort is being focused on doing it right, not patching the current system, which is basically unfixable in a systematic and maintainable way. If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. Jerry W4UK At 07:34 AM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Hi Jerry, It's a 5k. I don't think they apply to the 1k without a little coding. 73 Ed W2RF On 13 May 2008 at 22:14, Jerry Flanders wrote: What radio are you using, Ed? Jerry W4UK At 07:29 PM 5/13/2008, Ed Russell wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Good that you could measure the numbers there, Ed. I don't know the numbers for any of my rigs, but I just did a quickie listening test and the K3 definitely gives me audible band noise conditions at 35. I am new to the K3 and don't really know how to get the optimum from it yet - it probably does as well as the official Elecraft claim: With the internal keyer running at an indicated 50 WPM, you can hear band activity between dits while using the narrowest filters. (From the Elecraft website K3 FAQ). The K3 lets me dial in a specific speed, so it was easy to set it to 35 for tests. Not so the ICOM 756PRO3, which I also tested. I tried it at what I believe is at least 30 WPM, and I could hear band noise on it also. The ICOM uses reed relays. I had an IC-7000 in operation for a while a few weeks ago and satisfied myself that I could hear band conditions between dits with it also, but didn't record any WPM numbers. It was probably in the 30 WPM range. W0QE has made keying time measurements on a number of modern rigs (he was interested in switchover timing for amplifier QSK use) at http://www.bnk.com/w0qe/amplifier_timing.html . Some of his data may be usable to estimate possible QSK speed limits per your calculations, but the receiver recovery time is not included in his report. I hope someone with a better lab than mine can put some of these rigs to the test as you request and actually record and publish the resulting audio. That would help popularize full QSK, I think - when you have heard/used the real thing, you want nothing less. Thanks for the work you have done to improve PowerSDR. Jerry W4UK At 01:11 PM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Jerry has brought up an important point. We CW ops believe true QSK means hearing between dots at high speed. I thought so myself until I began looking closely at the performance of box-based rigs. There is an easy calculation that shows why true QSK is difficult: R/T + T/R - ES = Band Sound where R/T is time it takes to mute receiver and begin transmitting T/R is time it takes to stop transmitting and fully activate receiving ES is element spacing ES is 30ms at 40wpm ES is 40ms at 30wpm ES is 60ms at 20wpm Hit the key. It takes about 10-15ms to get a waveform started. Release the key. It takes about 15-20ms minimum for T/R turnaround; most rigs take 30 or more. That means in the best possible case R/T plus T/R turnaround takes 25ms. I measured the response of my 950SDX: R/T = 13ms T/R = 19ms That means no Band Sound at 40wpm. I measure 10ms of Band Sound at 30wpm, but subjectively that isn't enough to call useful. The 950SDX is an old radio, you might say. But if you look at the ARRL reviews the numbers are equal to or better than newer rigs. So, what is the rig that can really do QSK? The K3? Maybe, but it's a DSP rig too. Send me a tape :) 73 Ed W2RF On 14 May 2008 at 11:59, Jerry Flanders wrote: Thanks, Ed. BTW, what you describe as QSK is usually referred to as semi break in, or Semi QSK by CW ops. There is a world of difference. For the guys and gals out there who may not understand the distinction, CW ops refer to QSK as the ability to actually hear activity on the band between dits at a reasonable speed. Modern radios that actually do true QSK can do it at 30-50 WPM. I look forward to purchasing another 5000a (first was sent back for poor CW performance) if and when new software actually allows it to perform to this standard. I am pretty sure the 5000a hardware will allow this, but the following quote from Frank Brickel's April 26 post in the then-current CW QSK ability thread eliminated my hope that the current PowerSDR could _ever_ provide QSK: I think this line of discussion has run its course of usefulness. Development effort is being focused on doing it right, not patching the current system, which is basically unfixable in a systematic and maintainable way. If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. Jerry W4UK At 07:34 AM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Hi Jerry, It's a 5k. I don't think they apply to the 1k without a little coding. 73 Ed W2RF On 13 May 2008 at 22:14, Jerry Flanders wrote: What radio are you using, Ed? Jerry W4UK At 07:29 PM 5/13/2008, Ed Russell wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Hey Frank, Great news. One way to sell the new architecture is a fancy driver to go with a nice flexible Windows GUI... Who ever worries about the innards of a driver (;o))~ Peace and happiness will descend on the Flex realm! vy 73 Rob AB7CF On Wed, 14 May 2008 12:40:08 -0400 Frank Brickle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. That's not right. The entire audio subsystem inside the SDR software is being replaced. The new subsystem is common across all of the platforms, Windows included. It provides latencies as small as 64 samples. This isn't speculation; it already exists. What you're not going to see is the new audio subsystem merged with the old monolithic PowerSDR codebase. 73 Frank Brickle AB2KT -- The only thing we have to fear is whatever comes along next. -- Austin Cline ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Hi, I applaud you guys putting numbers to the issues. In my working life our engineering department's slogan was: The numbers will set you free. I'm sure Dilbert agrees! very best regards Rob AB7CF On Wed, 14 May 2008 17:31:22 -0400 Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Good that you could measure the numbers there, Ed. I don't know the numbers for any of my rigs, but I just did a quickie listening test and the K3 definitely gives me audible band noise conditions at 35. I am new to the K3 and don't really know how to get the optimum from it yet - it probably does as well as the official Elecraft claim: With the internal keyer running at an indicated 50 WPM, you can hear band activity between dits while using the narrowest filters. (From the Elecraft website K3 FAQ). The K3 lets me dial in a specific speed, so it was easy to set it to 35 for tests. Not so the ICOM 756PRO3, which I also tested. I tried it at what I believe is at least 30 WPM, and I could hear band noise on it also. The ICOM uses reed relays. I had an IC-7000 in operation for a while a few weeks ago and satisfied myself that I could hear band conditions between dits with it also, but didn't record any WPM numbers. It was probably in the 30 WPM range. W0QE has made keying time measurements on a number of modern rigs (he was interested in switchover timing for amplifier QSK use) at http://www.bnk.com/w0qe/amplifier_timing.html . Some of his data may be usable to estimate possible QSK speed limits per your calculations, but the receiver recovery time is not included in his report. I hope someone with a better lab than mine can put some of these rigs to the test as you request and actually record and publish the resulting audio. That would help popularize full QSK, I think - when you have heard/used the real thing, you want nothing less. Thanks for the work you have done to improve PowerSDR. Jerry W4UK At 01:11 PM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Jerry has brought up an important point. We CW ops believe true QSK means hearing between dots at high speed. I thought so myself until I began looking closely at the performance of box-based rigs. There is an easy calculation that shows why true QSK is difficult: R/T + T/R - ES = Band Sound where R/T is time it takes to mute receiver and begin transmitting T/R is time it takes to stop transmitting and fully activate receiving ES is element spacing ES is 30ms at 40wpm ES is 40ms at 30wpm ES is 60ms at 20wpm Hit the key. It takes about 10-15ms to get a waveform started. Release the key. It takes about 15-20ms minimum for T/R turnaround; most rigs take 30 or more. That means in the best possible case R/T plus T/R turnaround takes 25ms. I measured the response of my 950SDX: R/T = 13ms T/R = 19ms That means no Band Sound at 40wpm. I measure 10ms of Band Sound at 30wpm, but subjectively that isn't enough to call useful. The 950SDX is an old radio, you might say. But if you look at the ARRL reviews the numbers are equal to or better than newer rigs. So, what is the rig that can really do QSK? The K3? Maybe, but it's a DSP rig too. Send me a tape :) 73 Ed W2RF On 14 May 2008 at 11:59, Jerry Flanders wrote: Thanks, Ed. BTW, what you describe as QSK is usually referred to as semi break in, or Semi QSK by CW ops. There is a world of difference. For the guys and gals out there who may not understand the distinction, CW ops refer to QSK as the ability to actually hear activity on the band between dits at a reasonable speed. Modern radios that actually do true QSK can do it at 30-50 WPM. I look forward to purchasing another 5000a (first was sent back for poor CW performance) if and when new software actually allows it to perform to this standard. I am pretty sure the 5000a hardware will allow this, but the following quote from Frank Brickel's April 26 post in the then-current CW QSK ability thread eliminated my hope that the current PowerSDR could _ever_ provide QSK: I think this line of discussion has run its course of usefulness. Development effort is being focused on doing it right, not patching the current system, which is basically unfixable in a systematic and maintainable way. If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. Jerry W4UK At 07:34 AM 5/14/2008, Ed Russell wrote: Hi Jerry, It's a 5k. I don't think they apply to the 1k without a little coding. 73 Ed W2RF On 13 May 2008 at 22:14, Jerry Flanders wrote: What radio are you using, Ed? Jerry W4UK At 07:29 PM 5/13/2008, Ed Russell wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
My signal/one CX7A had very good QSK. I found the noise while transmitting to be irritating, much like voice VOX with a short delay time so that it goes to receive in between syllables. It's nice to have a little quiet while you are sending to think about what you are communicating. I suppose that for a contester or DX hound QSK is useful because you are just pushing the keyer memory button and listening for the signals of the others. But, then again, I used to go from receive to transmit by putting the receiver in Standby, changing the antenna to the transmitter with the knife switch, then turn on the HV in the transmitter. :) Mike - AA8K Jerry Flanders wrote: I hope someone with a better lab than mine can put some of these rigs to the test as you request and actually record and publish the resulting audio. That would help popularize full QSK, I think - when you have heard/used the real thing, you want nothing less. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
Hi Mike, I agree with your assessment of QSK, it's great for the contester or DXer managing a run, but for a little pistol search and pouncer like me semi QSK is the cats pajamas. Full QSK is a definitely a distraction when my mouth is full of well chewed rag. You now the difference between catching a break on a symbol space or a letter space is almost totally trivial in the grand scheme of things. (I can hear the collective gasp now, but it's the ugly truth.) Non-the-less as an exercise in design one upmanship full QSK is a must in a top flight rig. Certainly quick turn around is a worthy specification for which much good does flow. vy best regards Rob AB7CF On Wed, 14 May 2008 22:02:14 -0400 Mike Naruta [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My signal/one CX7A had very good QSK. I found the noise while transmitting to be irritating, much like voice VOX with a short delay time so that it goes to receive in between syllables. It's nice to have a little quiet while you are sending to think about what you are communicating. I suppose that for a contester or DX hound QSK is useful because you are just pushing the keyer memory button and listening for the signals of the others. But, then again, I used to go from receive to transmit by putting the receiver in Standby, changing the antenna to the transmitter with the knife switch, then turn on the HV in the transmitter. :) Mike - AA8K Jerry Flanders wrote: I hope someone with a better lab than mine can put some of these rigs to the test as you request and actually record and publish the resulting audio. That would help popularize full QSK, I think - when you have heard/used the real thing, you want nothing less. ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
how long do the buffers take to fill after the relay closes? I set my sdr1k to the fastest buffers, and listen to my Icom 746 sending cw.. the relay closeson the 746.. it sends a dit, and the radio just starts to receive again before I can hear the signal in my srd. I cannot see how that lag problem will be overcome... Frank Brickle wrote: On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. That's not right. The entire audio subsystem inside the SDR software is being replaced. The new subsystem is common across all of the platforms, Windows included. It provides latencies as small as 64 samples. This isn't speculation; it already exists. What you're not going to see is the new audio subsystem merged with the old monolithic PowerSDR codebase. 73 Frank Brickle AB2KT ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Ray J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how long do the buffers take to fill after the relay closes? I set my sdr1k to the fastest buffers, and listen to my Icom 746 sending cw.. the relay closeson the 746.. it sends a dit, and the radio just starts to receive again before I can hear the signal in my srd. I cannot see how that lag problem will be overcome... It can't. The latency that's solved is entirely from the point of view of the operator, the lag between the end of a sidetone-sounding element and the resumption of received signal. Purely from the standpoint of QSK, that's the lag that counts. Where this can be minimized is in not emptying and refilling the buffers. With full duplex the buffers are kept full with causal signal, so the audio output sent to the user can be switched at the lowest latency in the system. So, all of the lags on signals arriving at the receiver will be consistent once they get to your antenna. But before the signals get to you, they will have been subjected to essentially random delays due to the different paths they take between their antennas and yours. So it's not like there aren't delays in signal arrival already, messing with your mind in familiar ways. Still, all of them, and your keying sidetone too, will be time-shifted by a *constant, miniscule* amount, and that's the key ingredient in smoothing the QSK. The CW ops at the great coastal maritime stations were dealing with transmitters located many miles from their operating positions, keyed with cascades of relays over phone lines, and with TX and RX antennas similarly located at separate sites. For that reason among others, I suspect that perfect QSK allows a lot more flexibility than we've been stipulating here. I further suspect that a lot of *perceived* perfection of QSK is actually an illusion sustained by other factors in the switching. 73 Frank AB2KT Frank Brickle wrote: On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Jerry Flanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I understand Frank correctly, we will not see what CW ops call QSK in PowerSDR/Windows. Ever. That's not right. The entire audio subsystem inside the SDR software is being replaced. The new subsystem is common across all of the platforms, Windows included. It provides latencies as small as 64 samples. This isn't speculation; it already exists. What you're not going to see is the new audio subsystem merged with the old monolithic PowerSDR codebase. 73 Frank Brickle AB2KT ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ -- The only thing we have to fear is whatever comes along next. -- Austin Cline ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
[Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] New w2rf QSK mods now available
What radio are you using, Ed? Jerry W4UK At 07:29 PM 5/13/2008, Ed Russell wrote: I thought I was finished with PwrSDR QSK a couple of days ago, but then I had a few more thoughts... There is a new version in the SVN branch w2rf\bin\release My favorite settings are DSP 4096/256 at 96Khz/512. What are yours? I honestly think that these latest changes take QSK about as far as it can go with the current architecture. Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong :) 73 Ed W2RF ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ ___ FlexRadio Systems Mailing List FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/ Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/
