Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Selon Lee Elliott : On Monday 24 April 2006 12:16, Martin Spott wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: There's a reason why hardly any graphics professional uses a flatscreen for his work. Those people insist on CRTs. My CRT was quite cheap, and doesn't seem to have a linear voltage/brightness curve, but colors are OK. Last year on the LinuxTag I met Harald Koenig again - formerly known as Mr. S3 :-) He was displaying a system for handling and employing colour management profiles. Maybe we can elaborate a recommendation for how to calibrate FlightGear users' screens. Currently I only know of such systems for commercial operating systems (IRIX, MacOS, Windows, ), Martin. Being able to calibrate FG's display would be a useful and professional feature. As to how it would be done though... With a colorimetric sensor and a dedicated software. People doing photo editing are used to that if they want their printer print the same image they see and edited on the screen. Such package start at about 100 euros. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278 Other photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
* Martin Spott -- Sunday 23 April 2006 23:17: I'm now using a TFT after a customer opted to pay in kind - and I want to tell you that the difference in displaying colours between CRT and TFT, even if they both settle in the high-quality/-price region, is huge, There's a reason why hardly any graphics professional uses a flatscreen for his work. Those people insist on CRTs. My CRT was quite cheap, and doesn't seem to have a linear voltage/brightness curve, but colors are OK. m. --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Melchior FRANZ wrote: There's a reason why hardly any graphics professional uses a flatscreen for his work. Those people insist on CRTs. My CRT was quite cheap, and doesn't seem to have a linear voltage/brightness curve, but colors are OK. Last year on the LinuxTag I met Harald Koenig again - formerly known as Mr. S3 :-) He was displaying a system for handling and employing colour management profiles. Maybe we can elaborate a recommendation for how to calibrate FlightGear users' screens. Currently I only know of such systems for commercial operating systems (IRIX, MacOS, Windows, ), Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Martin Spott wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: There's a reason why hardly any graphics professional uses a flatscreen for his work. Those people insist on CRTs. My CRT was quite cheap, and doesn't seem to have a linear voltage/brightness curve, but colors are OK. Last year on the LinuxTag I met Harald Koenig again - formerly known as Mr. S3 :-) He was displaying a system for handling and employing colour management profiles. Maybe we can elaborate a recommendation for how to calibrate FlightGear users' screens. Currently I only know of such systems for commercial operating systems (IRIX, MacOS, Windows, ), Getting the gamma correctly set is a good start. Something like this will help: http://www.photoscientia.co.uk/Gamma.htm If, like some of my monitors you can't actually get it calibrated properly, then it's probably time to get yourself a new monitor - it won't be doing your eyes any good (ancient monitors here are just relegated to server use). Jon --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Jon Stockill wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Last year on the LinuxTag I met Harald Koenig again - formerly known as Mr. S3 :-) He was displaying a system for handling and employing colour management profiles. Maybe we can elaborate a recommendation for how to calibrate FlightGear users' screens. Currently I only know of such systems for commercial operating systems (IRIX, MacOS, Windows, ), Getting the gamma correctly set is a good start. Something like this will help: http://www.photoscientia.co.uk/Gamma.htm If, like some of my monitors you can't actually get it calibrated properly, then it's probably time to get yourself a new monitor - it won't be doing your eyes any good (ancient monitors here are just relegated to server use). On Linux with X11 (and perhaps on other systems using X11) monica http://www.pcbypaul.com/software/monica.html seems to be a quite useful program for adjusting the system gamma setting. It was easy to install too. /Anders -- Luck is my middle name, said Rincewind, indistinctly. Mind you, my first name is Bad. -- (Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times) --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
On Monday 24 April 2006 12:16, Martin Spott wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: There's a reason why hardly any graphics professional uses a flatscreen for his work. Those people insist on CRTs. My CRT was quite cheap, and doesn't seem to have a linear voltage/brightness curve, but colors are OK. Last year on the LinuxTag I met Harald Koenig again - formerly known as Mr. S3 :-) He was displaying a system for handling and employing colour management profiles. Maybe we can elaborate a recommendation for how to calibrate FlightGear users' screens. Currently I only know of such systems for commercial operating systems (IRIX, MacOS, Windows, ), Martin. Being able to calibrate FG's display would be a useful and professional feature. As to how it would be done though... LeeE --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Melchior FRANZ wrote: ... but, yes, maybe a bit greener to match all sorts of shrubby areas. I have no clue if the landuse sources distinguish dry shrub and green shrub. If they do, then my complaint is invalid, of course. Terra-/FlightGear is able to distinguish between the landcover types listed here - the table is simply a HTMLified version of the schema I use to maintain the database: http://www.custom-scenery.org/Background.262.0.html Every type except the last seven entries is actually being used as input for scenery generation (you primarily want to look at the landcover_* types) but not each of them has its unique texture defined in 'materials.xml', several landcover types share the same textures, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Hi Mel, I think I need to get a new monitor :D lol I like the color adjustments you've done to the city [1,2,3] textures, please feel free to commit it to CVS. As for the Default Shrub texture, well it's not really appropriate for my region either...but a slight concession had to be made for arid regions. Anyway, I've just update the European Texture pack. It now includes a NorthernEuropean-ish City (city 4,5), a new European Shrub (shrub 5,6,7),a new European Sand (Sand 7) texture, and color and texture correctionsto the previous texturesby Mark Akermann. -Rob http://mellonroot.acomp.usf.edu/~phoenix
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
* Martin Spott -- Sunday 23 April 2006 22:14: Terra-/FlightGear is able to distinguish between the landcover types listed here - [...] Thanks. Interesting. But doesn't tell if one and the same shrub type is used for dry (as in bay area) and for green areas (as I'm used to). Also, looking at material.xml, for example, in nameShrubCover/name nameShrubGrassCover/name textureTerrain/shrub.rgb/texture textureTerrain/shrub2.rgb/texture textureTerrain/shrub3.rgb/texture we are mapping two types to three different textures. Wouldn't it make more sense to map ShrubCover and ShrubGrassCover to different textures? This wouldn't use more space, but possibly match reality better. I would assume that ShrubCover is greener than ShrubGrassCover. This would replace some randomness (which is great) with more reality (which is greater :-). Theoretically, we could also use one and the same texture in two entries with different state values (ambient/diffuse), without using up more texture memory. No idea if that would yield acceptable values, though. m. --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
we are mapping two types to three different textures. Wouldn't it make more sense to map ShrubCover and ShrubGrassCover to different textures? This wouldn't use more space, but possibly match reality better. I would assume that ShrubCover is greener than ShrubGrassCover. The answer isn't that simple... :( The materials.xml fileactually has alot of unused mappings, and this is a goodexample.The mappings in the materials.xml file should correspond with the names assigned to the polygons built during the last scenery build. However, it seems like assigned names sometimes change between builds, for example the poly's name ShrubGrassCover in a previous buildmaybe now named ShrubCoverin this build. I think this is just to keep compatibility with some of the older scenery builds. The current list of valid names assigned to the polygons are located in Terragear's src/Prep/Shapefile/process.sh In order to create my own userdefined assignments (so I can rebuild the world in regional chunks), I've added several new entries intonames.cxx and names.hxxusingMartin'sshapefile's naming scheme. e.g. World_landmass_default North_America_East_landmass_default North_America_Central_landmass_default North_America_Mountain_landmass_default North_America_Pacific_landmass_default Europe_North_landmass_default Europe_South_landmass_default South_America_landmass_default Africa_landmass_default Asia_landmass_default Asia_South_West_landmass_default Asia_South_East_landmass_default Asia_Japan_landmass_default Australia_landmass_default Oceania_landmass_default Polar_landmass_default This way, I can rebuild the world in pieces and have uniquely assigned material for each region. I still have some testing to do, but I'm pretty confident this approach will work. -Rob
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
nameShrubCover/name
nameShrubGrassCover/name
textureTerrain/shrub.rgb/texture
textureTerrain/shrub2.rgb/texture
textureTerrain/shrub3.rgb/texture
we are mapping two types to three different textures. Wouldn't it make
more sense to map ShrubCover and ShrubGrassCover to different
textures?
Pointing at this particular fact was my intention when I mentioned that
not every layer has its unique texture :-)
In the case you cite here the effect does not matter because there is
no 'ShrubGrassCover' layer - this is sort of a blind entry. I know that
at least two textures are being reused by two or more material
names/layers each as I had a look at this while preparing the
Mapserver. I found it pretty cumbersome to dig through the stuff as I'm
no XML parser so I decided to get out of that.
The document stored here:
ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/GIS/GISData/NIMA/VMAP0_spec.pdf
starting at about page 150 lists different area features and
information on how to identify these ('f_code', 'veg', 'smc', 'swc' and
so on). Somebody with lots of spare time could have a look at this and
try to identify landcover/material types that are already prepared in
'TerraGear/src/Lib/Polygon/names.hxx' and in 'data/materials.xml'. Most
of this is already put into browsable form on this page:
http://www.de.terragear.org/docs/vmap0/coverage.html
There's another thing: When picking colours to identify the different
layers for my Mapserver I averaged the color values over the texture
tiles and realized that the color values of many textures resemble each
other - see the Legend to the Mapserver map display after selecting all
landcover layers.
Regards,
Martin.
--
Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Textures Part II.
Yeah, I noticed that the colors seemed really close together on the mapsever too. I've been meaning to send you that file for the color mapping (I used the same color averaging method in GIMP as you used however the colors seemed close together). -Rob There's another thing: When picking colours to identify the differentlayers for my Mapserver I averaged the color values over the texture tiles and realized that the color values of many textures resemble eachother - see the Legend to the Mapserver map display after selecting alllandcover layers.Regards, Martin.--Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
