Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 3:54 PM Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> > Hi Eric I have partition magic for dos this can create partition for
> > freedos?
>
> I guess it can, given that it is a partition editor :-)
>
> I do not know whether the DOS version can create LBA
> partitions or FAT32 partitions, so if this is an old
> DOS software, it may be better to use modern tools
> such as GPARTED for Linux or something similar for
> Windows or maybe even a tool shipping with FreeDOS?

Just FYI, there's also SPfdisk that may behave differently ("better"??):

* https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/fdisk/spfdisk/

But I never used it much and don't remember the details. (I think it
had better access to SATA disks?? And at least a quick format
built-in. IIRC, sources were mostly in C.)


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[usul]

I think I have managed to get both MSDos and Freedos though currently I
cannot boot into freedos

Trying to find a version of Linux that I like, I will probably pick Manjaro
XFCE, that seems to run the best on that laptop and have access to the
stuff I need/want
which is mostly Virtual Box, and Visual Studio Code

It still boots into MS Dos and Linux can see all the partitions
I plan to create a swap dir at the end of the free space and then install
linux into what is remaining.

I am hoping that it will see the other distros and install grub properly,
to boot into any of the goodness.

At the least I expect that it will do a dual boot with MSDos and Linux, and
I think I can massage grub to do the rest for me once I learn how.

Adam

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 3:54 PM Eric Auer  wrote:

> Hi Gabriele,
>
> > Hi Eric I have partition magic for dos this can create partition for
> > freedos?
>
> I guess it can, given that it is a partition editor :-)
>
> I do not know whether the DOS version can create LBA
> partitions or FAT32 partitions, so if this is an old
> DOS software, it may be better to use modern tools
> such as GPARTED for Linux or something similar for
> Windows or maybe even a tool shipping with FreeDOS?
>
> In any case, it should not make much difference for
> the multiboot question. For that, the trick will be
> to sort partitions in a way that each OS calls their
> own partition C: because the partitions of the other
> OS either are in formats not supported by the OS,
> for example FAT32 will be invisible to MS DOS 6.22,
> or are after the own partition of the OS. And you
> should make sure that installing one OS does not
> format or otherwise damage the partition of another.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Eric Auer]

Hi Gabriele,


Hi Eric I have partition magic for dos this can create partition for
freedos?


I guess it can, given that it is a partition editor :-)

I do not know whether the DOS version can create LBA
partitions or FAT32 partitions, so if this is an old
DOS software, it may be better to use modern tools
such as GPARTED for Linux or something similar for
Windows or maybe even a tool shipping with FreeDOS?

In any case, it should not make much difference for
the multiboot question. For that, the trick will be
to sort partitions in a way that each OS calls their
own partition C: because the partitions of the other
OS either are in formats not supported by the OS,
for example FAT32 will be invisible to MS DOS 6.22,
or are after the own partition of the OS. And you
should make sure that installing one OS does not
format or otherwise damage the partition of another.

Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Gabriele Barbone]

Hi Eric I have partition magic for dos this can create partition for
freedos?

Il gio 9 mar 2023, 23:08 Eric Auer  ha scritto:

>
> Hi!
>
> You could try metakern: FreeDOS SYS has command line options to write
> the boot sector to a file instead of to the boot sector. You can use
> either DEBUG or Linux or simple or fancy DOS tools of your choice to
> harvest the boot sectors of MS DOS and XP. If FreeDOS finds the file
> fdconfig.sys, it will use that and ignore config.sys, so you can tell
> FreeDOS to use a different command.com than MS DOS in the SHELL line,
> which you can also use to tell our freecom shell to use a different
> file instead of autoexec.bat :-)
>
> In short, you can use metakern as a boot menu to install FreeDOS and
> MS DOS on the SAME C: drive, both visible to each other. Of course
> it will take a bit of copying files around and making backups before
> one installer overwrites files of the other DOS, but as experienced
> DOS user, you can do it :-)
>
> You can also add XP to the equation if you manage to keep config
> files separate, but it is probably easier to install XP to a NTFS
> partition which both DOS versions will simply ignore. You can use
> for example your Linux boot manager to boot either Linux or XP or
> the DOS partition and then use metakern to boot either FreeDOS or
> MS DOS.
>
> Or even easier: Copy the harvested boot sectors of both MS DOS and
> FreeDOS to your Linux boot manager directory and manually add boot
> menu items for the two DOS versions directly to your Linux boot menu
> without using metakern.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
> > I and trying to get a multiboot setup
> >
> > 1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11
> > 2. FreeDos 1.3
> > 3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no...
> > 4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE...
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[usul]

I was looking at that.


On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 1:55 PM Louis Santillan  wrote:

> Might I suggest you try Microwindows/Nano-X on DOS and Linux?
>
> http://www.microwindows.org/
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:41 AM usul  wrote:
>
>> I probably am that guy.  I couldn't post in groups on FB for a couple of
>> days.   and I am itching to do something. LOL.
>>
>> Thanks for the links...
>> As soon as I find a linux distro that I like that works on the laptop I
>> will start looking at them in more detail.
>>
>> I think it would be fun to write something that looks like Windows 3.11
>> maybe even be able to run apps written for it. DESQview/X  could run both
>> if I could get something going that
>>
>> I have always thought that if xserver and a wm/desktop could be ported
>> from linux to freedos that were small enough,
>> then perhaps others would port apps as well. beyond the standard
>> minefield, wordpad etc clones the other "desktops" like seal, opengem. etc.
>> with those they never seemed to catch on, and most of them barely
>> function when I run them.
>>
>> xvesa, wxwidgets, nano-x / microxwindows etc
>> I don't really know how all of the linux windowing system works yet.  And
>> really the last time I messed with linux, it was zipslack on jaz drives was
>> the thing.
>> I even have a copy of dragonlinux (the linux that installed on a dos
>> partition not a different partition)
>>
>> I still have a bunch of books in the closet for programming windows 3.11
>> and dos.
>> Never did much win 95 came out shortly (like a couple of years) after I
>> got started.
>>
>> I'll find something simpler freedos related to cut my dos programmer
>> teeth on.
>> Probably... :)
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:24 AM Liam Proven  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 15:18, usul  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Why? cause I always get asked...
>>>
>>> Ah, you are the same person who asked on the Facebook FreeDOS group?
>>>
>>> > Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I
>>> was working in VB 3 lol,
>>> > run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I
>>> can port a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to
>>> do any of that in a VM.
>>>
>>> DESQview/X _is_ a minimal X server.
>>>
>>> There were other X servers for DOS, e.g.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/freedos-user/thread/4f0b8ad3.7050...@gmail.com/
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxmisc.com/4-linux/54d11736a319f7ae.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> https://techmonitor.ai/technology/ms_dos_x_server_releases_from_hummingbird
>>>
>>> The DEC PATHWORKS client for DOS also included an X server.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/decnet/pathworks_DOS/AA-PAF5C-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_Overview_V4.1_Aug91.pdf
>>>
>>>  You might be able to find a download of that out there somewhere. I
>>> think it was free if you owned the PATHWORKS server.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
>>> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
>>> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
>>> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
>>> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Louis Santillan]

Might I suggest you try Microwindows/Nano-X on DOS and Linux?

http://www.microwindows.org/


On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 11:41 AM usul  wrote:

> I probably am that guy.  I couldn't post in groups on FB for a couple of
> days.   and I am itching to do something. LOL.
>
> Thanks for the links...
> As soon as I find a linux distro that I like that works on the laptop I
> will start looking at them in more detail.
>
> I think it would be fun to write something that looks like Windows 3.11
> maybe even be able to run apps written for it. DESQview/X  could run both
> if I could get something going that
>
> I have always thought that if xserver and a wm/desktop could be ported
> from linux to freedos that were small enough,
> then perhaps others would port apps as well. beyond the standard
> minefield, wordpad etc clones the other "desktops" like seal, opengem. etc.
> with those they never seemed to catch on, and most of them barely
> function when I run them.
>
> xvesa, wxwidgets, nano-x / microxwindows etc
> I don't really know how all of the linux windowing system works yet.  And
> really the last time I messed with linux, it was zipslack on jaz drives was
> the thing.
> I even have a copy of dragonlinux (the linux that installed on a dos
> partition not a different partition)
>
> I still have a bunch of books in the closet for programming windows 3.11
> and dos.
> Never did much win 95 came out shortly (like a couple of years) after I
> got started.
>
> I'll find something simpler freedos related to cut my dos programmer teeth
> on.
> Probably... :)
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:24 AM Liam Proven  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 15:18, usul  wrote:
>> >
>> > Why? cause I always get asked...
>>
>> Ah, you are the same person who asked on the Facebook FreeDOS group?
>>
>> > Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I
>> was working in VB 3 lol,
>> > run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I can
>> port a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to do
>> any of that in a VM.
>>
>> DESQview/X _is_ a minimal X server.
>>
>> There were other X servers for DOS, e.g.
>>
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/freedos-user/thread/4f0b8ad3.7050...@gmail.com/
>>
>> http://www.linuxmisc.com/4-linux/54d11736a319f7ae.htm
>>
>>
>> https://techmonitor.ai/technology/ms_dos_x_server_releases_from_hummingbird
>>
>> The DEC PATHWORKS client for DOS also included an X server.
>>
>>
>> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/decnet/pathworks_DOS/AA-PAF5C-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_Overview_V4.1_Aug91.pdf
>>
>>  You might be able to find a download of that out there somewhere. I
>> think it was free if you owned the PATHWORKS server.
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
>> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
>> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
>> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
>> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
>>
>>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[usul]

I probably am that guy.  I couldn't post in groups on FB for a couple of
days.   and I am itching to do something. LOL.

Thanks for the links...
As soon as I find a linux distro that I like that works on the laptop I
will start looking at them in more detail.

I think it would be fun to write something that looks like Windows 3.11
maybe even be able to run apps written for it. DESQview/X  could run both
if I could get something going that

I have always thought that if xserver and a wm/desktop could be ported from
linux to freedos that were small enough,
then perhaps others would port apps as well. beyond the standard minefield,
wordpad etc clones the other "desktops" like seal, opengem. etc.
with those they never seemed to catch on, and most of them barely
function when I run them.

xvesa, wxwidgets, nano-x / microxwindows etc
I don't really know how all of the linux windowing system works yet.  And
really the last time I messed with linux, it was zipslack on jaz drives was
the thing.
I even have a copy of dragonlinux (the linux that installed on a dos
partition not a different partition)

I still have a bunch of books in the closet for programming windows 3.11
and dos.
Never did much win 95 came out shortly (like a couple of years) after I got
started.

I'll find something simpler freedos related to cut my dos programmer teeth
on.
Probably... :)

Adam










On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:24 AM Liam Proven  wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 15:18, usul  wrote:
> >
> > Why? cause I always get asked...
>
> Ah, you are the same person who asked on the Facebook FreeDOS group?
>
> > Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I was
> working in VB 3 lol,
> > run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I can
> port a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to do
> any of that in a VM.
>
> DESQview/X _is_ a minimal X server.
>
> There were other X servers for DOS, e.g.
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/freedos-user/thread/4f0b8ad3.7050...@gmail.com/
>
> http://www.linuxmisc.com/4-linux/54d11736a319f7ae.htm
>
> https://techmonitor.ai/technology/ms_dos_x_server_releases_from_hummingbird
>
> The DEC PATHWORKS client for DOS also included an X server.
>
>
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/decnet/pathworks_DOS/AA-PAF5C-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_Overview_V4.1_Aug91.pdf
>
>  You might be able to find a download of that out there somewhere. I
> think it was free if you owned the PATHWORKS server.
>
> --
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Liam Proven]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 at 15:18, usul  wrote:
>
> Why? cause I always get asked...

Ah, you are the same person who asked on the Facebook FreeDOS group?

> Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I was 
> working in VB 3 lol,
> run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I can port 
> a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to do any of 
> that in a VM.

DESQview/X _is_ a minimal X server.

There were other X servers for DOS, e.g.

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/freedos-user/thread/4f0b8ad3.7050...@gmail.com/

http://www.linuxmisc.com/4-linux/54d11736a319f7ae.htm

https://techmonitor.ai/technology/ms_dos_x_server_releases_from_hummingbird

The DEC PATHWORKS client for DOS also included an X server.

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/decnet/pathworks_DOS/AA-PAF5C-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_Overview_V4.1_Aug91.pdf

 You might be able to find a download of that out there somewhere. I
think it was free if you owned the PATHWORKS server.

--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

Let me get a bit more verbose in my installation thoughts.

If you want to hide FreeDOS and MS DOS from each other,
at least a bit, you could use filesystem choice for that:

Install Linux on a Linux filesystem.
Install XP on some NTFS filesystem.
Install FreeDOS on a FAT32 filesystem.
Install MS DOS on a FAT16 filesystem.

By putting them in an appropriate order, XP can be C: while
it sees the other 2 DOS versions as D: and E: and FreeDOS
can be C: while seeing MS DOS as D: and last but not least
MS DOS can be C: while not using any other partitions.

Be aware that MS DOS can only use CHS partitions within
the first 8 GB of the drive.

Regarding the boot menu question, you can manually edit
the GRUB menu.lst file after letting whatever automatic
menu.lst generation offered by your Linux distro create
entries for Linux, XP and MS DOS. This would let you
add a FreeDOS entry when MS DOS and FreeDOS share the
same partition. For that, you would manually run the
FreeDOS SYS, after booting MS DOS, in the special style

SYS C: freedos.bin bootonly

this will create a freedos.bin boot sector file. You
then copy the menu.lst section about MS DOS, but edit
the "chainloader +1" line and make that something like
"chainloader (hd0,1)/freedos.bin" if (hd0,1) would be
your MS DOS partition.

But given that you want 4 separate partitions for your
4 operating systems anyway, you can let the automatic
menu.lst generation of GRUB do EVERYTHING, without the
need for special SYS commands or manual menu.lst edits
if you make sure that the 4 partitions all use different
filesystem types :-)

I recommend that you start by installing XP, because it
is more likely to damage existing installs of other OS.

Next, install Linux. Depending on the distro, it will
provide a wizard to install a dual-boot which keeps XP
working and gives you a boot menu.

Add one FAT32 and one FAT16 primary partition either
during this step or later, using a graphical Linux
partitioning and formatting tool such as GPARTED.

Boot MS DOS from a floppy or similar and install it
manually to the FAT16 partition, without formatting
or partitioning anything. Maybe you just use a boot
disk and run SYS and copy some files, instead of
running some automated installer at that point.

Take similar steps for FreeDOS. I am not sure whether
it will automatically skip formatting and partitioning,
but do make sure to skip those. Also, make sure that
your FAT32 partition is before the FAT16 one. That way
the FAT32 partition will be C: and the MS DOS FAT16
partition will be D: for FreeDOS, while MS DOS will
only see the FAT16 partition and call it C: :-)

Boot Linux and let the GRUB menu.lst generator tool do
magic to add menu entries for the two DOS partitions.

I expect all DOS systems to require extra tricks if
their boot partition is not a primary partition, but
you can only have 4 primary partitions in total, or 3
if you also need additional non-primary partitions.

In the latter case, I think you can boot at least
Linux from non-primary partitions. Not sure about
XP. You may have to tell Linux to install GRUB in
the MBR, not in the boot sector of your Linux boot
partition, for this to work.

Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[usul]

I am no longer an experienced DOS user. I am relearning. And only
understood half of what you said. Guess I have gotten old and lazy.
and even back in the day I just went right to windows, to work in VB 3. I
think 95 came out a year after I really got my start.

 Plus I really want them to be separate.

I wish I knew how to do grub better but that xFDisk seems like it would do
the trick.
I have GParted and could use that to do all the Partitioning and hiding but
I don't see that it has a way to install
and setup grub,

Unless someone says there are issues with xFDisk I'll try that. Worst thing
that could happen is that I have to start over again.

Adam


On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 4:07 PM Eric Auer  wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> You could try metakern: FreeDOS SYS has command line options to write
> the boot sector to a file instead of to the boot sector. You can use
> either DEBUG or Linux or simple or fancy DOS tools of your choice to
> harvest the boot sectors of MS DOS and XP. If FreeDOS finds the file
> fdconfig.sys, it will use that and ignore config.sys, so you can tell
> FreeDOS to use a different command.com than MS DOS in the SHELL line,
> which you can also use to tell our freecom shell to use a different
> file instead of autoexec.bat :-)
>
> In short, you can use metakern as a boot menu to install FreeDOS and
> MS DOS on the SAME C: drive, both visible to each other. Of course
> it will take a bit of copying files around and making backups before
> one installer overwrites files of the other DOS, but as experienced
> DOS user, you can do it :-)
>
> You can also add XP to the equation if you manage to keep config
> files separate, but it is probably easier to install XP to a NTFS
> partition which both DOS versions will simply ignore. You can use
> for example your Linux boot manager to boot either Linux or XP or
> the DOS partition and then use metakern to boot either FreeDOS or
> MS DOS.
>
> Or even easier: Copy the harvested boot sectors of both MS DOS and
> FreeDOS to your Linux boot manager directory and manually add boot
> menu items for the two DOS versions directly to your Linux boot menu
> without using metakern.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
> > I and trying to get a multiboot setup
> >
> > 1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11
> > 2. FreeDos 1.3
> > 3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no...
> > 4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE...
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

You could try metakern: FreeDOS SYS has command line options to write
the boot sector to a file instead of to the boot sector. You can use
either DEBUG or Linux or simple or fancy DOS tools of your choice to
harvest the boot sectors of MS DOS and XP. If FreeDOS finds the file
fdconfig.sys, it will use that and ignore config.sys, so you can tell
FreeDOS to use a different command.com than MS DOS in the SHELL line,
which you can also use to tell our freecom shell to use a different
file instead of autoexec.bat :-)

In short, you can use metakern as a boot menu to install FreeDOS and
MS DOS on the SAME C: drive, both visible to each other. Of course
it will take a bit of copying files around and making backups before
one installer overwrites files of the other DOS, but as experienced
DOS user, you can do it :-)

You can also add XP to the equation if you manage to keep config
files separate, but it is probably easier to install XP to a NTFS
partition which both DOS versions will simply ignore. You can use
for example your Linux boot manager to boot either Linux or XP or
the DOS partition and then use metakern to boot either FreeDOS or
MS DOS.

Or even easier: Copy the harvested boot sectors of both MS DOS and
FreeDOS to your Linux boot manager directory and manually add boot
menu items for the two DOS versions directly to your Linux boot menu
without using metakern.

Regards, Eric




I and trying to get a multiboot setup

1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11
2. FreeDos 1.3
3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no...
4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE...






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[Freedos-user] Question about xFDisk and a multiboot setup

[usul]

Was there a reason this doesn't seem to be included on the usb installer
(if it is I can't find it)

I and trying to get a multiboot setup


   1. MSDOS 6.22 + Win 3.11
   2. FreeDos 1.3
   3. I was going to do XP but annoying so no. (it dumped on drive "E",
   getting networking and drivers was a damn pain so bleh I won't be using it
   much anyway.
   4. And a Older laptop friendly Linux that runs on XFCE and
   https://b00merang.weebly.com/windows-311.html

This is going on a Dell Latitude D520
And when I go to install  FreeDos on a partition from the USB Installer iso.
It really, really  wants to overwrite the MSDOS

So I was thinking that I could..

Install MSDOS
Boot with FreeDos, run xFdisk , mark the msdos drive as hidden, and install
a bootloader
like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvI8Q0uaihI=7s_channel=i80386sx

But if it wasn't added I am wondering if it is bad, or just not maintained.
I might be able to do this with the live gparted CD, but I have never
installed grub manually before.

So maybe I do the
MSDOS install
Create and format a partition for FreeDos
Install Linux
and fix the grub to then do freedos

Why? cause I always get asked...

Because I want to code some stuff for windows 3.11 last time I did I
was working in VB 3 lol,
run XAppeal and DESQview/X 2.1 and cause if they can do it see If I can
port a minimal xserver to FreeDos for fun. And I really don't want to do
any of that in a VM.

Adam
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about error message / redirecting AUX and PRN?

[Eric Stein]

Thanks for the reply. It turns out the software is trying to write to 
the com port on exit, which I'm assuming expects to find a modem there. 
There was a modem connected, but wasn't turned on. With the modem on, I 
don't get the error. Also if there is nothing connected to the port, the 
data is just sent out to nowhere, and there is no error. I'm not sure 
why it is accessing a modem only in certain conditions, but obviously 
this is not a FreeDOS problem.


BTW I did not specifically mention that I'm running this on old hardware 
(Pentium III based) and not a VM. I will ignore the drive messages and 
see what happens. Also it is a Gateway system, so it may have finicky 
stuff going on that a generic system doesn't.


Regards,
Eric

On 7/8/2022 16:29, Eric Auer wrote:


Hi ERIC,

the AUX device usually was the same as COM1, in the same
way that the PRN device usually was the same as LPT1.

If your program tried to read/write AUX, it either
really wanted to do something with the serial port,
or an unrelated bug made it access the wrong file.

According to the FreeDOS kernel sources, AUX is the
first item in the system file table, similar to
file handles 0 to 4 defaulting to CON as stdin,
CON as stdout, CON as stderr, "stdaux" (stdin)
and PRN, respectively.

Note that your luck may vary when it comes to access
to real or emulated serial or parallel ports in the
PC or DOS emulators you may be using today. At least,
you will have to dig into the configuration docs to
find out how to link them to the right device of your
host operating system to make them useful :-)

The message about drives and cylinders probably
refers to a mismatch between your CHS geometry
and what would be plausible based on where your
partitions start and end. The MBR partition table
should better agree with the geometry reported
by the BIOS, but if you have LBA, then DOS will
probably be using LBA instead of CHS anyway, so
warnings about geometry become less relevant.
Regards, ERIC ;-)

PS: You are right that our MODE has LPTn=COMn
redirection but not PRN/AUX redirection. The
kernel source code says MODE should be able to
redirect AUX and PRN, like CTTY redirecting CON?
In MS DOS, the first 3 system file table items
would be AUX, CON and PRN. I guess redirecting
those would involve "just" manipulating the SFT?







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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about error message

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 3:11 PM Eric Stein  wrote:
>
> So I get this message when I exit from a certain program: Error reading
> from device AUX: write fault.
>
> Aside from the strangeness of getting a write fault by reading
> something, does DOS even still have an AUX device?  I think this is a
> generic device name like PRN that can be redirected to something else,
> but the MODE command doesn't seem to know what it is.

AUX is just COM1 (serial), PRN is just LPT1 (parallel).

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS#Reserved_device_names
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_file#PC_DOS,_TOS,_OS/2,_and_Windows


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[Freedos-user] Question about error message

[Eric Stein]

Regarding FreeDOS 1.3 release version:

So I get this message when I exit from a certain program: Error reading 
from device AUX: write fault.


Aside from the strangeness of getting a write fault by reading 
something, does DOS even still have an AUX device?  I think this is a 
generic device name like PRN that can be redirected to something else, 
but the MODE command doesn't seem to know what it is.


Also when I start FreeDOS, I get 4 lines of "Can't read parameters from 
drive 01" after a message that looks like it is adjusting the number of 
cylinders detected. But the system seems to work fine.


Any insights would be appreciated.

Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] Question, HX dos extender.

[Joao Silva]

i have and did work.

Managed to get sound on dos games, but the game was too slow to play


On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 3:20 PM Björn Morell  wrote:

> Hi :)
>
> HX is tested in Freedos 1.0 I believe,  does it work in ver. 1.3 RC5 ?
> Has anybody here tested ?
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/hx-dos/files/2.17/
>
> Bear
>
>
>
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[Freedos-user] Question, HX dos extender.

[Björn Morell]

Hi :)

HX is tested in Freedos 1.0 I believe,  does it work in ver. 1.3 RC5 ? 
Has anybody here tested ?


https://sourceforge.net/projects/hx-dos/files/2.17/

Bear



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Bret Johnson]

> MBR and GPT are partitioning systems. MBR can be used on any disk up
> to 2TB but not more.
>
> GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger > than 
> 2TB.

Close, but not quite accurate.  MBR can be used on any disk which contains up 
to 2^32 (4G) *sectors*, not necessarily 2T *Bytes*.  It is true that most disks 
use 512 Bytes/sector (which equates to 2 TB), but not all do.  E.g., optical 
media (CD/DVD/BD) use 2k Bytes/sector), and large modern hard disks use 4k 
Bytes/sector.  Oftentimes there is firmware in the 4k hard disks to 
virtualize/emulate 512 bytes (they usually call this 512e).

We can have a much lengthier discussion about the practical implications of all 
this (and there are plenty of them), but the point is that 4G sectors does not 
*necessarily* equate to 2T Bytes.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Bryan Kilgallin]

Hey richardkolacz101:

I think that I understand the reason of the "inflated Windows Pro price 
from HP" (when comparing if you purchased Windows 10 from an independent 
vendor).


I got my computers refurbished from a church charity.
https://www.canberracitycare.org/tech-shed.html

And I got discounted prices by saying that I wanted no software. As I 
would install Linux myself!

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 01:08, Michał Dec  wrote:

> dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom.

I accidentally hit "send" while switching tabs, and it was too late
when I came back.

`dd` is not a replacement for tools such as Acronis because:

1. It requires considerable Unix knowledge
2. It requires bootable Linux media, knowing how to make them, and how
to use them.
3. It is extremely dangerous and a slight error in the command will
overwrite the user's hard disk. There is no feedback or confirmation.
4. It will not resize filesystems, which is the *whole point of the exercise*

So: no, not a good tool.

I have been using Unix systems professionally since 1988. I would not
use `dd` for this task myself.

>
> >GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than 
> >2TB.

Please use plain text when replying to emails. Read this if you don't
understand why:
https://useplaintext.email/

Your reply appeared to be simply "no".

Please identify any other partitioning scheme for generic x86 clone
PC-compatible computers which can partition media of larger than 2 TB,
or a documented supported workaround that allows MBR to be safely used
for drives bigger than 2TB. It must work at least as well as GPT,
meaning it is free, works on any OS, allows the OS to be booted from
the drive, etc.

I do not know of any such system but I am always happy to learn.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 01:08, Michał Dec  wrote:
>
> dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom.

Yes and no. Mostly no.


> >GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than 
> >2TB.

[Annoying graphical attachment removed]

This is a mailing list. Please use plain text.



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Michał Dec]

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 18:12, Travis Siegel  wrote:


Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from
a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as
long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the
disk itself.


Yup. Heard of it. Never used it. Meant to be good, I think.

dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom.


GPT can be used on any size of drive but *must*  be used on drives bigger than 
2TB.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Liam Proven]

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 18:12, Travis Siegel  wrote:
>
> Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from
> a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as
> long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the
> disk itself.

Yup. Heard of it. Never used it. Meant to be good, I think.
>
> Also, the difference between 2fTB drives

Do you mean 2 TB? Not sure where the F came from.

> and larger ones is (mostly) a
> matter of gpart VS. MBR,

That's GPT vs MBR. "Gpart" is a program.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpart

> and of course, the whole EUFI bios

It's UEFI, not EUFI. Important to get it right when someone might be
Googling it.

Don't call it a "UEFI bios". A PC either has a BIOS or it has a UEFI.
UEFI is not a type of BIOS; it's a replacement for a BIOS.

It's like saying "a Harley Davidson is a motorcycle car". It's not;
either it's a car, *or* it's a motorbike. It's not both.

Some UEFI firmware can emulate a BIOS -- most, in fact. But not all.

MBR and GPT are partitioning systems. MBR  can be used on any disk up
to 2TB but not more.
GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than 2TB.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Travis Siegel]

Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from 
a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as 
long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the 
disk itself.


Also, the difference between 2fTB drives and larger ones is (mostly) a 
matter of gpart VS. MBR, and of course, the whole EUFI bios system on 
the various computer systems.  I'm fairly certain there's nothing 
proprietary about it, though I suppose it's certainly possible that some 
manufacturers put their own code into the EUFI bios to make things 
behave differently, though why they'd do so is a mystery to me.


Also, Microsoft sells windows for $100 for the base system, and $200 for 
the pro version, and that's stand-alone, so there's no reason why 
windows should cost $215 especially from an OEM, since they pay 
considerably less for a copy of windows than a retail customer does.


It's all just a load of crap, which is why I build my own machines, and 
have since the early 90s.  Admittedly, it's getting progressively harder 
to find the exact patrts one wants these days, especially when it comes 
to cases with a sufficient number of drive bays (everyone seems to think 
since everything is online, external drives are unnecessary), but with a 
bit of judicial searching, it's (usually) possible to locate a suitable 
case, though pricing is rarely in line with other parts. 


In any case, apparently, with the EUFI bios systems, it's not possible 
to run dos without some work, since the BIOS varies too much from 
standard machines of the past.  It can still be done with emulators and 
the like, but generally, it is possible to flash a rom bios on a 
motherboard, if you dig hard enough, or locate a compatible motherboard, 
but again, that's becoming less and less common.  Generally, if you 
search for industrial equipment/parts, you can generally find legacy 
bios support, and setup your machine with one of those motherboards.  
That seems to work, though I'm sure even that support will fall by the 
wayside eventually.


Perhaps, SBC (Single Board Computers) may be the way to go for folks 
wanting a true dos experience, though I've yet to find one I'd consider 
suitable myself for a reasonable price.  The pi would be great, but it's 
an arm processor, so can't do the dos thing without a whole lot of help, 
so perhaps if someone has some knowledge about an ISA type SBC, I'd sure 
like to hear about it. I'd love to get my hands on one for myself, it 
might be fun seeing just how much dos can be run on one of those.





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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Liam Proven]

Just for clarity, I thought I'd try to highlight some of the errors
and misconceptions in your lengthy email.

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 03:16, richardkolacz...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

> the option of FreeDOS 3.0 is not always available

There is no such thing as FreeDOS 3.0 and never has been. Maybe
someone at HP made a mistake but it does not exist.

> the G7 version always had FreeDOS 2.0

There is no such thing as FreeDOS 2.0 either. It does not exist.

> it is not possible to reinstall Windows on a larger (or another for that 
> matter) PCIe M.2 SSD

This is not true. You can reinstall it or you can copy it, whichever
you prefer.

It may be that your PC cannot take a larger disk but that is a
different question.

If you wish to *move* Windows to a bigger disk, you could do this:

* get a cheap external drive such as a USB hard disk
* boot from a Linux USB key
* use GParted to copy your Windows install to the external disk
* remove your small internal disk
* fit a larger internal disk
* boot from the Linux key again and copy your partitions back. Resize as needed.
* boot from a Windows USB key and repair your boot record so it's bootable

> Various manufacturers/vendors of PCIe SSD would not be willing to state they 
> would offer a refund for purchase of a new larger SSD M.2 if it turns out 
> that the operating system could not be migrated to the new SSD.

No, they won't. If their kit is fine but you don't know how to do it,
why should they give you your money back?

> Similarly, the few software houses (with OS "clone" capabilities) completely 
> side-stepped the issue of refund if their software failed to "migrate" the OS 
> to a new larger PCIe SSD).

They can't. They don't know that hardware incompatibilities or user
error will stop it working, so it is not possible for them to 100%
guarantee it will work.

> It turns out, after reading about the thousandth google search result on the 
> matter, that the "formatting/installation process" to have an operating 
> system on a PCIe M.2 SSD is "proprietory/custom" for each computer 
> manufacturer

Not true as far as I know. I've formatted several of them, some
repeatedly, and never used a vendor tool. Sounds like someone
somewhere is lying.

>  AND Windows will not support what is needed to allow cloning of the 
> operating system

Not true.

> (BECAUSE the format of a PCIe SSD is custom).

Not true.

> As a spare part I could not buy from HP a larger capacity PCIe SSD (with 
> windows) - in fact when was available, just to replace the existing 256 GByte 
> drive was about US$950 (more than what I actually paid for the laptop).

It is generally a bad idea to buy spares from a system vendor this way
because of the expense.

> I gather that buying Windows already installing on a PCIe SSD

A Windows install is tailored to that PC. They can't be sold pre-installed.

> has to be much more expensive than the separate purchase of Windows and PCIe 
> SSD

No; because it doesn't exist. But a manufacturer's spare is not the same thing.

> because of the "complexity" involved of installing an OS onto a PCIe SSD 
> (whereas an OS on a SATA SSD is relatively easy).

They are 100% as easy as each other; they are the same process.

> After using the laptop with Windows booting from the PCIe SSD - running 
> Windows from a SATA SSD is so very slow (like about a minute compared to a 
> few seconds).

Shouldn't be, no. The difference in my experience is tiny.

> So I am "window shopping" for a "better laptop" than what I have at present 
> and from my experience it is better for me to have the factory preconfigure 
> "everything" rather than messing around with saving a few dollars and trying 
> to do things myself (eg install OS on PCIe SSD, RAM memory upgrade that is 
> truely compatible (speed, voltage) etc).

In my extensive experience -- over a third of a century -- the reverse
is true. It is far *far* better to learn to do this stuff yourself and
as a result it will save you thousands and a lot of grief.

> As a side note, apparently the main market for HP computers with FreeDOS 
> installed is CHINA.

Large use of pirated OSes because it's not illegal there. Also,
several domestic Linux distributions which are improving fast and
leapfrogging Western ones: Deepin, Kylin, etc.

> I hope to hear soon from Jim Hall regarding "what's up" with the HP FreeDOS 
> 3.0.

You've been told already but you apparently refuse to accept it. It is
a typo or something. This product is not real, does not exist, never
had and probably never will.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Eric Auer]

Hi! Not sure whether I understand you correctly, but...

Why are 256 GB SSD, 32 GB RAM and 3k display too little?

Certainly not for DOS :-)

And why would it not be possible to install Windows on
a disk larger than 256 GB? That sounds more like some
license issue (Windows may think you install it on a
second computer, not migrate to a new disk) and not
like a problem with some proprietary magic of the SSD.

If your Windows takes minutes to boot from SATA SSD while
taking seconds from PCIe or M.2 SSD, it would seem to me
as if you have rather slow SATA, no AHCI, as well as maybe
other problems reducing your boot speed?

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[richardkolacz...@hotmail.com]

For anyone curious, the following link is how to custom configure (at purchase 
time) the HP laptop

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/ConfigureView?urlLangId==10051=-1=10151=3074457345620032820=1



>From the options at start of page, using Ubuntu (which is free) as a guide - 
>one can determine the "cost" of Windows (Pro) to being about   US$215. 
>Depending which (of many) links to configure HP zBook G8 you go to, the option 
>of FreeDOS 3.0 is not always available - however with the previous model 
>(about 1-2 years ago), the G7 version always had FreeDOS 2.0 or Ubuntu at no 
>charge (and roughly Windows Pro being at the same price).

I think that I understand the reason of the "inflated Windows Pro price from 
HP" (when comparing if you purchased Windows 10 from an independent vendor).

Note that my laptop (G2 manufactured about 8 years ago, and purchased second 
hand at a very nice price) - I have "outgrown" it (it only has 256G byte PCIe 
SSD, 3K display) and I have "maxed out" the RAM to 32 GByte. A very important 
wish was to increase the PCIe SSD and although easy to change (physically) the 
PCIe SSD to a much larger capacity (say buying from eBAY) - the problem of 
installing the Windows operating system on the larger PCIe SSD prevented this. 
To cut a long story short - when investigating how to install/migrate Windows 
to a larger PCIe SSD - after a few months of searching, reading maybe a 
thousand forum replies (it seems), trying my existing software (and free trials 
software),etc - on my G2 laptop (which only has ONE PCIe slot - where the C:\ 
drive is)) - it is not possible to reinstall Windows on a larger (or another 
for that matter) PCIe M.2 SSD. Various manufacturers/vendors of PCIe SSD would 
not be willing to state they would offer a refund for purchase of a new larger 
SSD M.2 if it turns out that the operating system could not be migrated to the 
new SSD. Similarly, the few software houses (with OS "clone" capabilities) 
completely side-stepped the issue of refund if their software failed to 
"migrate" the OS to a new larger PCIe SSD). The best I could do, was have a 99% 
clone success rate but the final 1% related to the actual Windows booting 
process, and so therefore useless for having a larger SSD.

It turns out, after reading about the thousandth google search result on the 
matter, that the "formatting/installation process" to have an operating system 
on a PCIe M.2 SSD is "proprietory/custom" for each computer manufacturer (and 
possibly also model specific) - the computer manufacturers will not release 
details - AND Windows will not support what is needed to allow cloning of the 
operating system (BECAUSE the format of a PCIe SSD is custom). On the other 
hand,  migration of OS to a SATA SSD is supported (SATA is not custom format 
dependent).

As a spare part I could not buy from HP a larger capacity PCIe SSD (with 
windows) - in fact when was available, just to replace the existing 256 GByte 
drive was about US$950 (more than what I actually paid for the laptop). I 
gather that buying Windows already installing on a PCIe SSD has to be much more 
expensive than the separate purchase of Windows and PCIe SSD because of the 
"complexity" involved of installing an OS onto a PCIe SSD (whereas an OS on a 
SATA SSD is relatively easy).

After using the laptop with Windows booting from the PCIe SSD - running Windows 
from a SATA SSD is so very slow (like about a minute compared to a few seconds).


So I am "window shopping" for a "better laptop" than what I have at present and 
from my experience it is better for me to have the factory preconfigure 
"everything" rather than messing around with saving a few dollars and trying to 
do things myself (eg install OS on PCIe SSD, RAM memory upgrade that is truely 
compatible (speed, voltage) etc).


As a side note, apparently the main market for HP computers with FreeDOS 
installed is CHINA.

I hope to hear soon from Jim Hall regarding "what's up" with the HP FreeDOS 3.0.

________
From: dmccunney 
Sent: Friday, 3 December 2021 3:53 AM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ivan Ivanov  wrote:
>
> Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable!

To whom?

Dell offered systems through Walmart a while back that did not have
Windows per-installed.  They dropped the offer.  The systems without
Windows did not *sell*.  (If you are Dell, selling through Walmart,
"sales" will be measured in  tens of thousands of systems. If you
aren't selling that sort of volume, you stop trying to do it that
way.)

The market for such a system is too small for a major computer
manufacturer to bother with.

> At least because the price of the

Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[dmccunney]

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ivan Ivanov  wrote:
>
> Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable!

To whom?

Dell offered systems through Walmart a while back that did not have
Windows per-installed.  They dropped the offer.  The systems without
Windows did not *sell*.  (If you are Dell, selling through Walmart,
"sales" will be measured in  tens of thousands of systems. If you
aren't selling that sort of volume, you stop trying to do it that
way.)

The market for such a system is too small for a major computer
manufacturer to bother with.

> At least because the price of the Win license is included in the
> laptop price, and nobody in their right mind wants to pay an extra $30
> for this glitchy "air". I'd spend these $30 on a RAM upgrade, or
> donate these $30 to some open source software - to make this world a
> better place, instead of filling the greedy M$ pockets.

The savings is not significant in terms of the total cost of the
machine. I don't know offhand what MS charges PC makers for bundling
Windows on new PCs.  But let's go with $30.  If you are looking at
laptops, it's easy to spend $3K on a machine without pushing hard.
That Windows license is *1%* of the cost of the machine

Note that Windows in no longer a major component of MS's revenues.
Yes, Windows and Office are still decent slices of their business, but
the real money these days is in gaming and cloud services.  Azure is
*huge* for Microsoft.  They are competing in that space against Amazon
AWS services, Oracle, and Google.  (And Office is shifting to the
cloud.  MS is pusing Office 365 hard, as  subscription based cloud
service  Depending on who you are and what you do, you may not *need*
a local installation of Office on your PC.0

And no, MS is not being "greedy".  I'll spare everyone a lecture on
the financial markets and why things work the way they do.  I'll
simply state that MS has reasons for its behavior that are driven *by*
the financial markets..
__
Dennis


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Ivan Ivanov]

Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable!
At least because the price of the Win license is included in the
laptop price, and nobody in their right mind wants to pay an extra $30
for this glitchy "air". I'd spend these $30 on a RAM upgrade, or
donate these $30 to some open source software - to make this world a
better place, instead of filling the greedy M$ pockets.

ср, 1 дек. 2021 г. в 20:10, Michał Dec :
>
> When a laptop manufacturer says the computer supports FreeDOS, it's their way 
> of stating 2 facts:
>
> 1. Their UEFI has CSM support.
>
> 2. They offer selling this laptop without a Windows license.
>
> W dniu 01.12.2021 o 16:31, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user pisze:
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney 
> dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> ...
>
> And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the 
> bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form 
> of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, 
> and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real 
> challenge.
>
> ...
>
>
> It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see exactly what 
> software HP bundles with it.
>
> [sarc]
> I mean, come on, HP. You love to bundle software with everything! We can't 
> even buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra crap on a disc. 
> So what about FreeDOS? Hmm?
> [/sarc]
>
> But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific laptop is 
> actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies drivers for it just 
> like they would supply drivers for Windows or whatever other OS they would 
> sell alongside their hardware. Yeah, I know that's probably not the case. But 
> that would be nice. That would be nice. :)
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Michał Dec]

When a laptop manufacturer says the computer supports FreeDOS, it's 
their way of stating 2 facts:


1. Their UEFI has CSM support.

2. They offer selling this laptop without a Windows license.

W dniu 01.12.2021 o 16:31, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user pisze:



On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney 
dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:


...

And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run
from the bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not
supported by any form of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and
supported long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a
BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge.

...


It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see 
exactly what software HP bundles with it.


[sarc]
I mean, come /on/, HP. You love to bundle software with /everything/! 
We can't even buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra 
crap on a disc. So what about FreeDOS? Hmm?

[/sarc]

But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific 
laptop /is/ actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies 
drivers for it just like they would supply drivers for Windows or 
whatever other OS they would sell alongside their hardware. Yeah, I 
know that's probably not the case. But that would be nice. That would 
be nice. :)



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Jerome Shidel]

Hmmm, I should get one. It would save me a lot of work. 


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user]

On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney 
dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote:

> ...
>
> And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the 
> bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form 
> of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, 
> and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real 
> challenge.
>
> ...

It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see exactly what 
software HP bundles with it.

[sarc]
I mean, come on, HP. You love to bundle software with everything! We can't even 
buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra crap on a disc. So what 
about FreeDOS? Hmm?
[/sarc]

But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific laptop is 
actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies drivers for it just like 
they would supply drivers for Windows or whatever other OS they would sell 
alongside their hardware. Yeah, I know that's probably not the case. But that 
would be nice. That would be nice. :)___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Michał Dec]

Yeah. If you absolutely want to develop software for bare-metal FreeDOS, 
you probably want to do it on compatible hardware. That concerns network 
cards, VESA and ISA sound cards mostly. As soon as you set foot on a PCI 
sound card or newer, you're in Windows land. Going back to DOS from this 
point is not impossible, but it is painful.


>$2700 price tag

I'm sorry, I think HP is under a cyber attack. Clearly someone is using 
XSS on their website to get prices of real estate, cryptocurrency or 
Apple products.


Best regards,

Michał

W dniu 01.12.2021 o 05:34, dmccunney pisze:

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 8:01 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead 
of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.

Why on Earth do you want to do *that*?


I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available 
Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for 
me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.

HP's spec sheet is *wrong.* There *is* no FreeDOS 3.0.  FreeDOS
current release is 1.3.  If you go the HP_'s top level site and search
for FreeDOS 3.0, it will find nothing.

And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run
from the bare metal on.  Too much of the hardware is simply not
supported by any form of DOS.  DOS stopped being sold and supported
long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so
getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge.

You haven't specified what sort of software you want to develop, but
unless you are dedicated Old Skool, who wants to develop on a pure DOS
PC using only development tools available when DOS was current, you
are better served to get a decent Win10 Pro machine with current
development toolchains, and compile to 808X.binaries than can run
under DOS and run DOS in emulation.

If I wanted to do this sort of thing, I'd start with a Win10 desktop,
not a laptop.  The one I'm using at the moment is a refurb
ex-corporate workstation that came with a quad cone Intel i5 cpu 2
356ghx, with a built in turbo mode up to 3.9 ghz, 16GB of RAM, Intel
HD 4600 graphics, and Win10 Pro on a 256GB SSD,  It cont *one tenth*
of the price for the laptop in the specs.

If you absolutely must run DOS on the bare metal, look at the links
for new gear posted earlier, or look around on someplace like eBay for
old PCVs that were designed to run DOS.

Buy the HP laptop advertised, and you will spend a lot of money on a
machine that cannot be used for what you want to do.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[dmccunney]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 8:01 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com
 wrote:
>
> I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use 
> instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.

Why on Earth do you want to do *that*?

> I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available 
> Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for 
> me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.

HP's spec sheet is *wrong.* There *is* no FreeDOS 3.0.  FreeDOS
current release is 1.3.  If you go the HP_'s top level site and search
for FreeDOS 3.0, it will find nothing.

And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run
from the bare metal on.  Too much of the hardware is simply not
supported by any form of DOS.  DOS stopped being sold and supported
long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so
getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge.

You haven't specified what sort of software you want to develop, but
unless you are dedicated Old Skool, who wants to develop on a pure DOS
PC using only development tools available when DOS was current, you
are better served to get a decent Win10 Pro machine with current
development toolchains, and compile to 808X.binaries than can run
under DOS and run DOS in emulation.

If I wanted to do this sort of thing, I'd start with a Win10 desktop,
not a laptop.  The one I'm using at the moment is a refurb
ex-corporate workstation that came with a quad cone Intel i5 cpu 2
356ghx, with a built in turbo mode up to 3.9 ghz, 16GB of RAM, Intel
HD 4600 graphics, and Win10 Pro on a 256GB SSD,  It cont *one tenth*
of the price for the laptop in the specs.

If you absolutely must run DOS on the bare metal, look at the links
for new gear posted earlier, or look around on someplace like eBay for
old PCVs that were designed to run DOS.

Buy the HP laptop advertised, and you will spend a lot of money on a
machine that cannot be used for what you want to do.
__
Dennis


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[richardkolacz...@hotmail.com]

Try the very LAST LINK below first to obtain the relevant brochure.



Email from HP.com "You're missing out on Cyber Monday deals, Richard" -Shop 
HP's Holiday Gift Guide > CYBER MONDAY > Workstation power (HP Book Studio G8 
Mobile S40X7UA#ABA)


https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox/id/AQMkADAwATY3ZmYAZS1kZAE0LWZjZDAtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADbLMdRCVfk0Cwly48TGfj3gcA9WyUTNi%2BLkGN5%2BY54JWLagEM9WyUTNi%2BLkGN5%2BY54JWLaAAFo5J8Dw%3D%3D


When going to the above laptop model from the email the link  for "CYBER WEEK" 
page is

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/slp/cyber-sale/business-pcs?mi_u=37e18e4d4e54f43b7dd1f0c2d2ad7d26_Flag=True_tier=GS_ign=142374_content=S2R6C1%20Product%204=em_con_nc_ns=280920643_medium=em_source=sf=37e18e4d4e54f43b7dd1f0c2d2ad7d26==2809206=1


Clicking on the image (of laptop)  -  link is


https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-zbook-studio-156-inch-g8-mobile-workstation-p-540x7ua-aba-1?jumpid=ma_cyber-sale_product-tile_business-pcs_2_540x7ua_hp-zbook-studio-15.642374


Going to the Specs of same





https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-zbook-studio-156-inch-g8-mobile-workstation-p-540x7ua-aba-1?jumpid=ma_cyber-sale_product-tile_business-pcs_2_540x7ua_hp-zbook-studio-15.6


NOW (in the Product Specifications of the above link) CLICK ON THE HP Data 
Sheet line (printed in blue)

AMS WS - HP ZBook Studio 15.6 inch G8 Mobile WorkStation PC DataSheet



and the link (for the brochure) is

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=4aa7-9961enuc


I refer you  to the "Available Operating Systems" near the top of page 2





Note that the previous models similarly had FreeDOS 2.0 as an available 
operating system (for a number of years).


From: Jim Hall 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2021 12:38 PM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0


On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 7:00 PM 
richardkolacz...@hotmail.com<mailto:richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> 
mailto:richardkolacz...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead 
of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.

I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available 
Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for 
me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.

I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to study - 
I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules.



Thanks for sharing this. The attachment wasn't too big so the email list 
accepted it. Otherwise, a copy/paste of hte text would be preferable.

Can you share a link to HP's site where you found this? There is no "FreeDOS 
3.0" - as Michal commented, we haven't released the final release of FreeDOS 
1.3 yet, so FreeDOS "3.0" is impossible. So clearly HP is advertising this 
incorrectly. I can follow up with HP if you can share the link where you found 
this.


Jim
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Jim Hall]

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 7:00 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com <
richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use
> instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.
>
> I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for
> Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any
> advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.
>
> I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to
> study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules.
>
>

Thanks for sharing this. The attachment wasn't too big so the email list
accepted it. Otherwise, a copy/paste of hte text would be preferable.

Can you share a link to HP's site where you found this? There is no
"FreeDOS 3.0" - as Michal commented, we haven't released the final release
of FreeDOS 1.3 yet, so FreeDOS "3.0" is impossible. So clearly HP is
advertising this incorrectly. I can follow up with HP if you can share the
link where you found this.


Jim
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[Michał Dec]

What. FreeDOS ain't even got 1.3 past release candidate numbers.

Regards,

Michał

W dniu 01.12.2021 o 01:59, richardkolacz...@hotmail.com pisze:
I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use 
instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.


I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for 
Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? 
Any advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.


I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you 
to study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules.


Thanks

Richard



*From:* Rugxulo 
*Sent:* Tuesday, 30 November 2021 11:52 AM
*To:* Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 


*Subject:* Re: [Freedos-user] How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file
Hi,

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 6:53 AM saito yutaka  wrote:
>
> How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file.
> I want to redirect to file as follow.
>
> ---
> c:\>dir aaa > out.txt
> c:\> type out.txt
>  Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021
>  Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E
> File not found.
> ---
>
> But it works as follow.
> It couldn't redirect "File not found" string.
>
> ---
> c:\>dir aaa > out.txt
> File not found.
> c:\> type out.txt
>  Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021
>  Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E
> ---

As mentioned, some things won't work by default.

For most things, if you just want to silence output (usually in a .BAT
file), try this:

REM ... shut up almost all output ...
ctty nul
echo (do whatever)
ctty con
REM ... make sure to re-enable "ctty con" at the end!! ...

To redirect STDERR to file, you need a third-party util (or a better
shell like 4DOS, as already mentioned):

* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/stderrf1.zip

There's also DJGPP's REDIR.EXE (386 DPMI) from DJDEV205.ZIP :

* http://www.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2/djdev205.zip


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0

[richardkolacz...@hotmail.com]

I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead 
of Windows 10 for programs I am writing.

I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available 
Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for 
me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc.

I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to study - 
I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules.

Thanks

Richard



From: Rugxulo 
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2021 11:52 AM
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file

Hi,

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 6:53 AM saito yutaka  wrote:
>
> How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file.
> I want to redirect to file as follow.
>
> ---
> c:\>dir aaa > out.txt
> c:\> type out.txt
>  Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021
>  Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E
> File not found.
> ---
>
> But it works as follow.
> It couldn't redirect "File not found" string.
>
> ---
> c:\>dir aaa > out.txt
> File not found.
> c:\> type out.txt
>  Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021
>  Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E
> ---

As mentioned, some things won't work by default.

For most things, if you just want to silence output (usually in a .BAT
file), try this:

REM ... shut up almost all output ...
ctty nul
echo (do whatever)
ctty con
REM ... make sure to re-enable "ctty con" at the end!! ...

To redirect STDERR to file, you need a third-party util (or a better
shell like 4DOS, as already mentioned):

* http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/stderrf1.zip

There's also DJGPP's REDIR.EXE (386 DPMI) from DJDEV205.ZIP :

* http://www.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2/djdev205.zip


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FDAPM

[Marv]

Thanks Eric! I had noticed that FDAPM POWEROFF did both a flush and
spindown, but after a couple of seconds it says "Warming up...Back...Back
on..." so I wasn't quite sure what it had done. In any case, it sounds like
I should be ok holding down the power button at that point. This particular
laptop has a very minimal bios, at least the part I can access.



On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 10:43 AM Eric Auer  wrote:

>
> Hi Marv!
>
> FDAPM FLUSH (no slash needed) does not rely on the BIOS,
> it is just meant to give caches hints to write back all
> pending writes. Note that none of the caches shipping
> with FreeDOS will pool or delay writes, so you actually
> do not need to flush with those :-)
>
> As soon as the last app returns to the prompt, you can
> expect that DOS has written all data and closed files.
>
> The flush command should work for the following caches:
> msclient (not a cache, but network drives), CD Blitz,
> PC-Cache, QuickCache, Super PC Kwik / QCache, SMARTDRV.
> It also tells DOS and BIOS disks to reset some state.
>
> The latter could help to make sure that things are
> written from the built-in cache of your SD card to
> the permanent storage of that card. I would expect
> most drives - including SSD and SD ones - to default
> to not delay writes unless you enable that? And how
> long would such delays be at most? Are there rules
> about it? Or experiences here on the list?
> You could use the SPINDOWN command to tell disks/SD
> to shut down - that should give them a hint to flush
> their built-in caches :-) Actually, FDAPM POWEROFF
> implies flush and spindown anyway.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
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-- 
It's all fun and games until someone divides by zero.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FDAPM

[Eric Auer]

Hi Marv!

FDAPM FLUSH (no slash needed) does not rely on the BIOS,
it is just meant to give caches hints to write back all
pending writes. Note that none of the caches shipping
with FreeDOS will pool or delay writes, so you actually
do not need to flush with those :-)

As soon as the last app returns to the prompt, you can
expect that DOS has written all data and closed files.

The flush command should work for the following caches:
msclient (not a cache, but network drives), CD Blitz,
PC-Cache, QuickCache, Super PC Kwik / QCache, SMARTDRV.
It also tells DOS and BIOS disks to reset some state.

The latter could help to make sure that things are
written from the built-in cache of your SD card to
the permanent storage of that card. I would expect
most drives - including SSD and SD ones - to default
to not delay writes unless you enable that? And how
long would such delays be at most? Are there rules
about it? Or experiences here on the list?
You could use the SPINDOWN command to tell disks/SD
to shut down - that should give them a hint to flush
their built-in caches :-) Actually, FDAPM POWEROFF
implies flush and spindown anyway.

Regards, Eric



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[Freedos-user] Question about FDAPM

[Marv]

One of my FreeDos machines is a laptop without APM. The only way to shut it
down is to hold the off button for several seconds. That is not my
preferred way of doing things.

Some FDAPM commands seem to work (meaning I don't get any error msg)
without the computer having APM, for example, FDAPM /FLUSH. So, I've gotten
into the habit of doing that before holding down the off button.

But does FDAPM /FLUSH really work in my case? I haven't had any problems
that I know of so far. In particular, I'm concerned about the 32GB SD card
I use for transferring files back and forth to my Windows machines.



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

I'm back! And I got some great news!

After obtaining an OEM copy of Windows XP Professional SP3 from eBay for
the low-low price of $99.95 ( *awkward smile* ), I got around to installing
XP today. I decided to try Boot US, and man, that is the simplest boot
manager installer I have ever seen (then again, I have ever only tried to
install two boot managers in my life, Boot US being the second :) ). Just
downloaded the Boot US x86 installer from their website, installed it under
XP, set up the boot manager on the MBR, and blam!, I can boot into Win98
and XP!

Here's some proof (proof that fills me with glee!):
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4606/40243797792_4bcd9b5d2b_c.jpg

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 1:21 AM, Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Kyle Nied  wrote:
> >
> > BOOTMGR looks like a good candidate, Rugxulo. Boot US seems good too...
> I'll
> > have to think about it more.
> >
> > I'm putting this project on a very temporary hold, though. I'll work on
> it
> > some more after a few days.
>
> No pressure, just feel free to keep us updated on your achievements.
>
> > Thankfully, Jan, real DOS would not be a problem, given I have all three
> > MSDOS 6.22 installation floppy images on my USB flash drive that I store
> > floppy images on and of course Win98 bootdisks on there as well, if
> needed.
>
> Just to plug my own wimpy work:
>
> * https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/
> distributions/unofficial/metados/
>
> It's not much, but it's meant to be fairly minimal as a starting point
> for further expansion. It does fit on 1.44 MB 3.5" floppy (although
> only uses half) by default, to keep it simple.
>
> Besides kernel and shell, it does have FDISK, FORMAT, SYS, BOOTMGR,
> and a few other random tools (HIMEMX, CWSDPMI, CTMOUSE, UNZIP, etc
> etc). In theory, that should help you do a minimal install or at least
> simple tests.
>
> Floppies aren't super common anymore, and the few here that still use
> them seem to not have much interest in complaining or maintaining, so
> we don't have a lot of "good" floppy images online anymore (except
> messy old ones from like ten years ago, e.g. Joris, Balder, Odin, my
> own BARE_DOS or RUFFIDEA, and a very few others that I can't
> remember).
>
> Just for completeness, here's Jerome's FD 1.2 floppy image (but IIRC
> that usually presumes CD for installing packages):
>
> * https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/
> distributions/1.2/FD12FLOPPY.zip
>
> And here's Mateusz's Svarog86:
>
> * http://svarog86.sourceforge.net/
>
> Or his Svarog386 boot image:
>
> * http://svarog386.viste.fr/boot.img
>
> (I always feel like I'm missing something. There's always more to
> support, more to rebuild, more to test. I guess it's impossible to do
> everything.)
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Kyle Nied  wrote:
>
> BOOTMGR looks like a good candidate, Rugxulo. Boot US seems good too... I'll
> have to think about it more.
>
> I'm putting this project on a very temporary hold, though. I'll work on it
> some more after a few days.

No pressure, just feel free to keep us updated on your achievements.

> Thankfully, Jan, real DOS would not be a problem, given I have all three
> MSDOS 6.22 installation floppy images on my USB flash drive that I store
> floppy images on and of course Win98 bootdisks on there as well, if needed.

Just to plug my own wimpy work:

* 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/metados/

It's not much, but it's meant to be fairly minimal as a starting point
for further expansion. It does fit on 1.44 MB 3.5" floppy (although
only uses half) by default, to keep it simple.

Besides kernel and shell, it does have FDISK, FORMAT, SYS, BOOTMGR,
and a few other random tools (HIMEMX, CWSDPMI, CTMOUSE, UNZIP, etc
etc). In theory, that should help you do a minimal install or at least
simple tests.

Floppies aren't super common anymore, and the few here that still use
them seem to not have much interest in complaining or maintaining, so
we don't have a lot of "good" floppy images online anymore (except
messy old ones from like ten years ago, e.g. Joris, Balder, Odin, my
own BARE_DOS or RUFFIDEA, and a very few others that I can't
remember).

Just for completeness, here's Jerome's FD 1.2 floppy image (but IIRC
that usually presumes CD for installing packages):

* 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/FD12FLOPPY.zip

And here's Mateusz's Svarog86:

* http://svarog86.sourceforge.net/

Or his Svarog386 boot image:

* http://svarog386.viste.fr/boot.img

(I always feel like I'm missing something. There's always more to
support, more to rebuild, more to test. I guess it's impossible to do
everything.)

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

BOOTMGR looks like a good candidate, Rugxulo. Boot US seems good too...
I'll have to think about it more.

I'm putting this project on a *very* temporary hold, though. I'll work on
it some more after a few days.

Thankfully, Jan, real DOS would not be a problem, given I have all three
MSDOS 6.22 installation floppy images on my USB flash drive that I store
floppy images on and of course Win98 bootdisks on there as well, if needed.

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 2:02 PM, Jan van Wijk  wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 07:33:16 -0600 Rugxulo wrote:
> >
> >Just to plug BOOTMGR again:
> >
> >http://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/
>
> Indeed that looks to implement all you need, and only uses
> the MBR-sector itself which is quite an achievement ...
>
> You do need a real DOS to configure it though
> (could be on a floppy, if you can find one ...
>
> If I was going to use I would probably implement configuration logic
> in my own DFSee tool, to have it available on all platforms :)
>
>
> But the need for bootmanagers is somewhat less these days,
> I tend to run a lot of stuff in VirtualBox, so each OS has its own system
>
>
> Regards, JvW
>
>
>
> Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee; http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee/
> 
> 
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Jan van Wijk]

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 07:33:16 -0600 Rugxulo wrote:
>
>Just to plug BOOTMGR again:
>
>http://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/

Indeed that looks to implement all you need, and only uses
the MBR-sector itself which is quite an achievement ...

You do need a real DOS to configure it though 
(could be on a floppy, if you can find one ...

If I was going to use I would probably implement configuration logic
in my own DFSee tool, to have it available on all platforms :)


But the need for bootmanagers is somewhat less these days,
I tend to run a lot of stuff in VirtualBox, so each OS has its own system


Regards, JvW



Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee; http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee/


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 3:13 AM, Jan van Wijk  wrote:
>
> Right, but finding a proper BootManager might be a bit of a challenge.
>
> Many bootmanager need to be installed in a FAT partition (FAT32 might be OK)
> so that would be the W98 one. Some install into the MBR area only, and some
> require a small primary partition of their own ...
>
> It does not have to do much, just let you select from a menu and set the
> choosen partition as ACTIVE ...

Just to plug BOOTMGR again:

http://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/

"
For maximum compatibility with existing software, the BOOTMGR loader
fits entirely in the Master Boot Record and does not occupy nor
overwrite any additional disk space (unlike some other boot managers).
Of course, this limited size doesn't allow defining user passwords,
multiple configurations with more than four primary partitions, and
other non-standard (and therefore sometimes dangerous) features.
"

P.S. Just for completeness, another interesting one might be this:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/gujin/

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Jan van Wijk]

Hi Kyle,

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018 01:40:56 -0500 Kyle Nied wrote:
>
>I set the second primary partition as active, and the
>XP setup disk manager said that second primary partition would be the C
>drive! So now I am installing Win98 (after changing the "active" status
>back to the 80GB primary partition) for hopefully the last time on this
>time-waster of a machine, and then will install XP, choose a boot manager,
>and then enjoy!

Right, but finding a proper BootManager might be a bit of a challenge.

Many bootmanager need to be installed in a FAT partition (FAT32 might be OK)
so that would be the W98 one. Some install into the MBR area only, and some
require a small primary partition of their own ...

It does not have to do much, just let you select from a menu and set the
choosen partition as ACTIVE ...

Regards, JvW


Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee; http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee/


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

Good news, everyone! FreeDOS's Free FDISK does support multiple primary
partitions!

I finally did a little test of what that VOGONS member laid out (using Free
FDISK that ships with FreeDOS), and man it is magical compared to the
original FDISK provided by Microsoft. It correctly detects the size of the
HDD I am using, and skips the annoyingly slow "checking drive integrity"
bullcrap that takes forever. And, the reason I tried it to make sure it did
do what the VOGONS member said it did, I was able to make 2 primary
partitions! I was able to create a 80GB primary partition for Win98 "in the
front" as the first partition, and then the rest of the space (150GB) for a
second primary partition for XP! Finally, to make sure it was all about
that "active" status, I set the second primary partition as active, and the
XP setup disk manager said that second primary partition would be the C
drive! So now I am installing Win98 (after changing the "active" status
back to the 80GB primary partition) for hopefully the last time on this
time-waster of a machine, and then will install XP, choose a boot manager,
and then enjoy!

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:15 PM, Felix Miata  wrote:

> Eric Auer composed on 2018-01-22 03:14 (UTC+0100):
>
> >>> dual-boot system, and Win98 *has* to be on the first partition.
>
> >>That was never the case for me. e.g.
>
> > I agree that most operating systems happily boot from ANY primary
> > partition (not necessarily the active one), I seem to remember that
> > DOS and Windows are less happy to boot from LOGICAL partitions?
>
> > If you have more specific information, I would be happy to read it.
>
> AFAIK, neither MS-DOS nor PC-DOS nor Windows can ever boot from a logical.
> I was
> not describing booting from a logical. I was describing use of a single
> small
> (as little as ~32MB for 9x) FAT primary partition (that need neither be the
> first primary nor active) for Windows (NT/9x/2000/XP/Vista/7/8/10) to boot
> M$
> from, along with all operating system installations on logicals. Having
> learned
> this with 9x, I can't recall ever installing XP anywhere but (logical) E:
> on any
> of my own BIOS PCs, (virtually?) all of which for 25 years or so have been
> and/or are multiboot. I do own a working PC with XP on C:, but I didn't
> create
> that installation.
>
> W7 (probably Vista, which I never installed anywhere, too) and newer
> apparently
> insist on calling the system partition C: even when it is a logical.
> --
> "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
> get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)
>
>  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Felix Miata]

Eric Auer composed on 2018-01-22 03:14 (UTC+0100):

>>> dual-boot system, and Win98 *has* to be on the first partition.

>>That was never the case for me. e.g.

> I agree that most operating systems happily boot from ANY primary
> partition (not necessarily the active one), I seem to remember that
> DOS and Windows are less happy to boot from LOGICAL partitions?

> If you have more specific information, I would be happy to read it.

AFAIK, neither MS-DOS nor PC-DOS nor Windows can ever boot from a logical. I was
not describing booting from a logical. I was describing use of a single small
(as little as ~32MB for 9x) FAT primary partition (that need neither be the
first primary nor active) for Windows (NT/9x/2000/XP/Vista/7/8/10) to boot M$
from, along with all operating system installations on logicals. Having learned
this with 9x, I can't recall ever installing XP anywhere but (logical) E: on any
of my own BIOS PCs, (virtually?) all of which for 25 years or so have been
and/or are multiboot. I do own a working PC with XP on C:, but I didn't create
that installation.

W7 (probably Vista, which I never installed anywhere, too) and newer apparently
insist on calling the system partition C: even when it is a logical.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Eric Auer]

Hi Felix,

>> dual-boot system, and Win98 *has* to be on the first partition.
>That was never the case for me. e.g.

I agree that most operating systems happily boot from ANY primary
partition (not necessarily the active one), I seem to remember that
DOS and Windows are less happy to boot from LOGICAL partitions?

If you have more specific information, I would be happy to read it.

Regards, Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

Jan:

> More universal or newer disk tools may allow you to create multiple
> primary partitions.
>

Got it! And, by "more universal or newer disk tools", I'm sure I can
include FreeDOS's fdisk in that list, and if that is the case. great! If
not, just let me know :). Thanks Jan!

(for example my own 'DFSee' disk utility)

:P Hey, you got to spread the word somehow, and I can respect that. I'll
give it a look. :)


> However, there is a reason the older (DOS, Win98 etc) do not allow that.
> These older operating systems can not handle multiple visible primary
> partitions,
> they will fail on booting.


I'm guessing that is why the first partition on a hard drive for those OSs
should *always* be the *primary*, *active boot* partition for the given OS.

TJ:

> I'm pretty sure WinXP itself can create multiple primary partitions.


I'm also pretty sure that is true.


> Why not create the first partition (leaving some extra space on the disk)
> with whatever utility you want, install XP, then when XP is up and running
> create a second partition using XP's disk manager?


 Remember (not trying to sound mean), this is meant to be a Win98/XP
dual-boot system, and Win98 *has* to be on the first partition.
...
I mean, I'm sure I could somehow do it with the Windows XP partition
manager (the one that is loaded upon CD installation), but the manager is,
um, in my experience, very basic and not flexible. Plus, I would still need
to change "active" statuses with another partition manager to do what that
VOGONS member outlined earlier.

If you had XP and 98 each installed on a partition, I think you could grab
> the 98 boot sector and add it to BOOT.INI. Then when XP boots you would
> have a menu option to boot 98.


Hmm, that is an interesting piece of information. Boot-sector-related
information is still kind of "voodoo" to me, but I'll learn soon, I'm sure.

Jan:

> Yes, Windows-98 knows it can't handle that :)


(:(   :)

Okay, I think I can safely say that my question was answered. I'll try
using a FreeDOS bootdisk in a new attempt at this endeavor later, and post
back here the results.

Thanks for your help everybody!

If you care to see what I am doing mainly forum-wise, check me out at
VOGONS (for example, here is my topic regarding my first retro gaming
machine: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25=56714 ; when I have
this second one up and running 100%, I'll create another topic dedicated to
it).

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Jan van Wijk  wrote:

> Hi Kyle,
>
> On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 22:31:38 -0500 Kyle Nied wrote:
> >
> >What, out of all of these fdisk versions (minus
> >vanilla fdisk, of course), can you create multiple primary partitions?
>
> More universal or newer disk tools may allow you to create multiple
> primary partitions.
> (for example my own 'DFSee' disk utility)
>
> However, there is a reason the older (DOS, Win98 etc) do not allow that.
> These older operating systems can not handle multiple visible primary
> partitions,
> they will fail on booting.
>
> Apart from using a logical for one of them (not always possible) the best
> way
> to handle multiple operating systems that way (each in a primary, aka C:)
> is to use a bootmanager that handles automatic hiding/showing.
>
> It will make the selected OS partition visible (for a FAT install, type
> 0x06)
> and hide the other primaries (changing 0x06 ones into 0x16).
>
> One bootmanager that will do that is the classic IBM BootManager that
> came with OS/2 (and eComstation, and ArcaOS-5) but that is not free ...
>
> I am sure there are others that can do this too
>
>
>
> >To
> >demonstrate what I am trying to do and show that I cannot do it with what
> I
> >have, here is a video of me booting off of a custom (no "RAMdrive")
> Windows
> >98 SE bootdisk image (found here: http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm )
> on
> >a flash drive using a GOTEK USB floppy emulator (watch about it here:
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFP1J_lZBI= ) and trying to create a
> >secondary primary partition next to one that already exists (
> >https://flic.kr/p/23AQgLb ). As you can see, it doesn't work, because a
> >"Primary DOS Partition Already Exists".
>
> Yes, Windows-98 knows it can't handle that :)
>
> Regards, JvW
>
> Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee; http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee/
> 
> 
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Jan van Wijk]

Hi Kyle,

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 22:31:38 -0500 Kyle Nied wrote:
>
>What, out of all of these fdisk versions (minus
>vanilla fdisk, of course), can you create multiple primary partitions? 

More universal or newer disk tools may allow you to create multiple primary 
partitions.
(for example my own 'DFSee' disk utility)

However, there is a reason the older (DOS, Win98 etc) do not allow that.
These older operating systems can not handle multiple visible primary 
partitions,
they will fail on booting.

Apart from using a logical for one of them (not always possible) the best way
to handle multiple operating systems that way (each in a primary, aka C:)
is to use a bootmanager that handles automatic hiding/showing.

It will make the selected OS partition visible (for a FAT install, type 0x06)
and hide the other primaries (changing 0x06 ones into 0x16).

One bootmanager that will do that is the classic IBM BootManager that
came with OS/2 (and eComstation, and ArcaOS-5) but that is not free ...

I am sure there are others that can do this too



>To
>demonstrate what I am trying to do and show that I cannot do it with what I
>have, here is a video of me booting off of a custom (no "RAMdrive") Windows
>98 SE bootdisk image (found here: http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm ) on
>a flash drive using a GOTEK USB floppy emulator (watch about it here:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFP1J_lZBI= ) and trying to create a
>secondary primary partition next to one that already exists (
>https://flic.kr/p/23AQgLb ). As you can see, it doesn't work, because a
>"Primary DOS Partition Already Exists".

Yes, Windows-98 knows it can't handle that :)

Regards, JvW

Jan van Wijk, author of DFSee; http://www.dfsee.com/dfsee/


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[TJ Edmister]

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 22:31:38 -0500, Kyle Nied  wrote:


What, out of all of these fdisk versions (minus
vanilla fdisk, of course), can you create multiple primary partitions?


I'm pretty sure WinXP itself can create multiple primary partitions. Why  
not create the first partition (leaving some extra space on the disk) with  
whatever utility you want, install XP, then when XP is up and running  
create a second partition using XP's disk manager?


In regards to other things, yes, I will look at boot managers for this  
dual
boot, as it would not work without it, due to the configuration I am  
trying

to achieve.


If you had XP and 98 each installed on a partition, I think you could grab  
the 98 boot sector and add it to BOOT.INI. Then when XP boots you would  
have a menu option to boot 98.



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

Sorry for responding late.

Interesting stuff. I will have a look at METAKERN, Eric.

However (not to be mean or anything), but my original question was, well,
only kind of answered. Looking at the link to a *huge list* of different
fdisk versions that you provided Rugxulo, and looking at the link provided
by that VOGONS member to the "newer" fdisk, which is in the base
distribution of FreeDOS, this has me thinking. To take my original question
and touch it up a little: What, out of all of these fdisk versions (minus
vanilla fdisk, of course), can you create multiple primary partitions? To
demonstrate what I am trying to do and show that I cannot do it with what I
have, here is a video of me booting off of a custom (no "RAMdrive") Windows
98 SE bootdisk image (found here: http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm ) on
a flash drive using a GOTEK USB floppy emulator (watch about it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFP1J_lZBI= ) and trying to create a
secondary primary partition next to one that already exists (
https://flic.kr/p/23AQgLb ). As you can see, it doesn't work, because a
"Primary DOS Partition Already Exists".

In regards to other things, yes, I will look at boot managers for this dual
boot, as it would not work without it, due to the configuration I am trying
to achieve. That VOGONS member suggested Boot-US, which I will also have a
look at. I could try PLOP, which I tried to use for the many past failed
attempts at this endeavor (which I explained in the VOGONS topic:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=61=57679 ), but I will say, it is
a tad bit too complicated and too easy to screw everything up with in my
experience.

And Rugxulo, the problem with trying to emulate things is well, is the fact
you *are* trying to emulate things. Building a retro gaming PC with all of
the main pieces being of period-correct hardware (CPU, motherboard, RAM,
soundcards), while yes, it is expensive, takes up physical space, costs a
lot of money (the RGM that I have mentioned in the first post I have made,
I reckon it set me back at least ~$350; I have yet to do a "final
accounting"), etc., etc., etc., it A) is cool :), B) with the correct
software to utilize the hardware (i.e. Win98 and XP) allows for nearly
total compatibility without having to mess around with compatibility
layers, etc., and C) it can give you a truely authentic experience with a
given game (this is dependent on the soundcards and the graphics card). Oh,
and plus, although it takes a lot of work and plenty of frustration,
putting that love into something can be fun and afterwards, after finally
getting everything as it should, it contributes to a sense of pride at what
you have accomplished. Well, at least for me. :)

Anywho, I have rambled on long enough.

Again, any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 1:09 AM, Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
> >
> > There are a few FDISK variants for FreeDOS and some do
> > have some oddities in how to use them. For example you
> > may have to edit a config file to activate LBA support
> > for big disks or FAT32 support, in case you are in the
> > unlucky situation that your install has configured the
> > FDISK tool in question configured to DISable those. I
> > think the most popular ones are free FDISK and XFDISK.
>
> BOOTMGR is simple but still pretty good:
>
> http://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/
>
> And the various FreeDOS fdisks (FD fdisk, XFdisk, SPFdisk) are here:
>
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/fdisk/
>
> 
>
> But dual-booting is complex, so it might take some trial and error.
> (Don't forget you could instead just use GParted, maybe via Knoppix?)
>
> I halfway wonder why you don't just install them both under VirtualBox
> (or KVM or Hyper-V or whatever). Honestly, I think that's safer,
> easier, and less prone to native hardware incompatibility.
>
> Also, you can install XP atop FAT, but few did that (security?
> journaling? speed?), so that was removed from Vista.
>
> You might even want to try WINE (presumably under Linux) to see if it
> runs the apps you're trying to run. Admittedly, only Win9x runs some
> old things that later versions don't. Even MS can't keep perfect
> compatibility in newer versions, there's just too much third-party
> stuff. So WINE might actually be viable (or even ReactOS).
>
> RUFUS claims to be able to install Windows XP or newer. Not sure I'd
> recommend that on a slow flash jump drive, but who knows.
>
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> There are a few FDISK variants for FreeDOS and some do
> have some oddities in how to use them. For example you
> may have to edit a config file to activate LBA support
> for big disks or FAT32 support, in case you are in the
> unlucky situation that your install has configured the
> FDISK tool in question configured to DISable those. I
> think the most popular ones are free FDISK and XFDISK.

BOOTMGR is simple but still pretty good:

http://www.bttr-software.de/products/bootmgr/

And the various FreeDOS fdisks (FD fdisk, XFdisk, SPFdisk) are here:

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/fdisk/



But dual-booting is complex, so it might take some trial and error.
(Don't forget you could instead just use GParted, maybe via Knoppix?)

I halfway wonder why you don't just install them both under VirtualBox
(or KVM or Hyper-V or whatever). Honestly, I think that's safer,
easier, and less prone to native hardware incompatibility.

Also, you can install XP atop FAT, but few did that (security?
journaling? speed?), so that was removed from Vista.

You might even want to try WINE (presumably under Linux) to see if it
runs the apps you're trying to run. Admittedly, only Win9x runs some
old things that later versions don't. Even MS can't keep perfect
compatibility in newer versions, there's just too much third-party
stuff. So WINE might actually be viable (or even ReactOS).

RUFUS claims to be able to install Windows XP or newer. Not sure I'd
recommend that on a slow flash jump drive, but who knows.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Eric Auer]

Hi Kyle :-)

First, Win98 and DOS ignore NTFS drives. Second, FDISK
should easily allow up to 4 primary partitions, but in
most cases at most 3, because you need 1 extended to
put all the additional drives as a chain there.

However, only one partition can be the one which boots
by default. So you need a boot menu. Newer versions
of Windows and Linux include such a boot menu. You
can also use METAKERN which is a very minimalistic
boot menu for DOS. It is tricky to install but has
enough power to triple-boot Win98, FreeDOS and XP.

You probably have to be careful to install XP on
the other partition because it will prefer to be
an upgrade which replaces Win98.
The text about step 1 probably refers to the fact that
if you use a minimal boot disk to create that bootable
USB with FreeDOS, it will not have FDISK on it yet. If
you use a more complete distro of FreeDOS, things get
easier and you probably do not even need Rufus.

There are a few FDISK variants for FreeDOS and some do
have some oddities in how to use them. For example you
may have to edit a config file to activate LBA support
for big disks or FAT32 support, in case you are in the
unlucky situation that your install has configured the
FDISK tool in question configured to DISable those. I
think the most popular ones are free FDISK and XFDISK.

Finally, some fun thing about putting FreeDOS and Win98
on the same C: drive at the same time: If FreeDOS finds
fdconfig.sys then it will prefer that instead of normal
config.sys, so you can give FreeDOS one and Win98 the
other. In fdconfig.sys, you can configure the FreeDOS
command.com SHELL line to use a different file instead
of autoexec.bat, so you can also keep separate configs
for the autoexec and command.com of Win98 and FreeDOS
and let each use a different version of command.com :-)

Cheers, Eric



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[Freedos-user] Question Regarding FreeDOS's fdisk

[Kyle Nied]

Hello members of this mailing list!

My name is Kyle, and I subscribed to this mailing list just to ask a
hopefully simple question.

I have recently been trying to create a special Win98/XP dual-boot retro
gaming PC in which both OSs are installed on a *C* drive. Yes, both. Not
like how a normal Win98/XP dual-boot works with Win98 on the C drive and XP
on D.

I queried VOGONS (here's the topic:
 https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=61=57679
 ), and one user
mentioned this (in its entirety):

I always do it like this:
> *1. I create a FreeDOS USB drive with Rufus and copy a newer fdisk with
> support for bigger harddisks on it afterwards.*
> 2. I boot from the USB drive with PloP on a CD.
> *3. Now I run fdisk to create two primary partitions. One for 98SE, one
> for XP. I mark the first one as active.*
> 4. I boot from the Windows 98SE CD, format the first partition with
> CODE: SELECT ALL
> FORMAT C: /Q
> so I don't have to wait for ages and then I install the OS.
> 5. After 98SE is installed, I boot from the USB drive again. I run fdisk
> and mark the SECOND partition as active.
> 6. Now I install Windows XP and during the install I format the second
> partition (which is now listed as the C: drive in setup) with NTFS.
> 98SE and XP are now both installed on the HDD and they both think that
> their own partition is the C: drive.
> Only one last thing left: 98SE is missing in the XP boot menu, so usually
> I just install a boot manager like Boot-US and voila - I can easily boot
> into both systems.


You see what I have bolded, "numbers" 1 & 3?

This is where my question comes in. I know with vanilla DOS's fdisk, you
are only allowed to create one primary partition. However, does FreeDOS's
fdisk allow you to create more than one primary partition?

This is the crux of the whole plan. If I can confirm that FreeDOS's
fdisk has that ability, I can try his solution and hopefully have it work.
Hence, I joined this mailing list to find the answer.

Sorry for rambling on. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
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[Freedos-user] question ISO/DATA

[Leborgne Christian]

hi everybody
don t know if i m on right mailing list but i ll explain my trouble.

i try to flash my bios on my Medion PC motherboard MS 7358
i retrieve the data on medion web site.
so i made a freedos ISO with my flash bios data.
i install :

first i try to run on cd with prompt i launch my awardflash bios message :
not enough memory
well
so i install FREEDOS
after 10 attempts i did it (needed to copy command.com by myself from
FDOS/packages to FDOS/BIN he never manages to install it).
btw in the 10 attempts i kill my seven partition (don t know how but
nevermind)
so i copy the data from CDrom on my local drive
and launch my award flash bios.
it says to me file size do not match.

so my question is : ISO file extracted are not same size as Data extracted ?
for the answer : i ll try tonight or in the week to burn a cd with only my
ddata in data mode and copy on my FREEDOS partition.

if someone has the answer before i attempts something tha tkill my pc =)
thanks



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Re: [Freedos-user] question ISO/DATA

[Christian Leborgne]

Hi im usin imgburn ans ultraiso to modify m'y ISO.

Le 19 oct. 2015 7:06 PM, Don Flowers  a écrit :
>
> When you are making the iso what kind of bootable image are you using? For a 
> blank CD, I use FDOEM.144 from here:
>
> http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/
>
> Then I add the drivers for the PC I want to be able to boot since so many new 
> PCs require different various drivers to boot into a DOS environment. Once I 
> am sure that I have the right startup disk, I create an image of the diskette 
> and use that image as my boot image when I create the ISO. For a BIOS update 
> you don't usually need a memory driver, you just want to boot successfully 
> into a FreeDOS environment.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Leborgne Christian  
> wrote:
>>
>> hi everybody
>> don t know if i m on right mailing list but i ll explain my trouble.
>>  
>> i try to flash my bios on my Medion PC motherboard MS 7358
>> i retrieve the data on medion web site.
>> so i made a freedos ISO with my flash bios data.
>> i install :
>>  
>> first i try to run on cd with prompt i launch my awardflash bios message : 
>> not enough memory
>> well
>> so i install FREEDOS
>> after 10 attempts i did it (needed to copy command.com by myself from 
>> FDOS/packages to FDOS/BIN he never manages to install it).
>> btw in the 10 attempts i kill my seven partition (don t know how but 
>> nevermind)
>> so i copy the data from CDrom on my local drive
>> and launch my award flash bios.
>> it says to me file size do not match.
>>  
>> so my question is : ISO file extracted are not same size as Data extracted ?
>> for the answer : i ll try tonight or in the week to burn a cd with only my 
>> ddata in data mode and copy on my FREEDOS partition.
>>  
>> if someone has the answer before i attempts something tha tkill my pc =)
>> thanks
>>  
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Leborgne Christian
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] question ISO/DATA

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Leborgne Christian
 wrote:
>
> i try to flash my bios on my Medion PC motherboard MS 7358
> for the answer : i ll try tonight or in the week to burn a cd with only my
> ddata in data mode and copy on my FREEDOS partition.
>
> if someone has the answer before i attempts something tha tkill my pc =)
> thanks

Try reading this, and see if it helps:

https://wiki.debian.org/FlashBIOS

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Re: [Freedos-user] question ISO/DATA

[Don Flowers]

When you are making the iso what kind of bootable image are you using? For
a blank CD, I use FDOEM.144 from here:

http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/

Then I add the drivers for the PC I want to be able to boot since so many
new PCs require different various drivers to boot into a DOS environment.
Once I am sure that I have the right startup disk, I create an image of the
diskette and use that image as my boot image when I create the ISO. For a
BIOS update you don't usually need a memory driver, you just want to boot
successfully into a FreeDOS environment.



On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Leborgne Christian  wrote:

> hi everybody
> don t know if i m on right mailing list but i ll explain my trouble.
>
> i try to flash my bios on my Medion PC motherboard MS 7358
> i retrieve the data on medion web site.
> so i made a freedos ISO with my flash bios data.
> i install :
>
> first i try to run on cd with prompt i launch my awardflash bios message :
> not enough memory
> well
> so i install FREEDOS
> after 10 attempts i did it (needed to copy command.com by myself from
> FDOS/packages to FDOS/BIN he never manages to install it).
> btw in the 10 attempts i kill my seven partition (don t know how but
> nevermind)
> so i copy the data from CDrom on my local drive
> and launch my award flash bios.
> it says to me file size do not match.
>
> so my question is : ISO file extracted are not same size as Data extracted
> ?
> for the answer : i ll try tonight or in the week to burn a cd with only my
> ddata in data mode and copy on my FREEDOS partition.
>
> if someone has the answer before i attempts something tha tkill my pc =)
> thanks
>
>
>
> --
> Leborgne Christian
>
>
> --
>
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>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about ripcord

[Bernd Blaauw]

Op 7-11-2009 0:44, Joe Emenaker schreef:


Sure, it wouldn't work every time. And it would fail for anything 
which was run through and exe-compressor. But it would sure beat 
strings myprog.exe | more, which is what I have to do right now.


how we love UPX (and use it extensively) :)

some programs were updated (like Edit 0.9something) and released without 
UPX-compression on the executable. For a moment I wondered why I lacked 
space on bootdisk..


Bernd


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about ripcord

[Christian Masloch]

 There is a simple int21h AH=33h AL=FFh call you can make (no program I
 know of off hand that does it but from debug you should be able to get
 it easy) to get a pointer to the version string displayed at boot.

 Something like (completely untested, possibly simpler ways) this in  
 debug:
 a
 mov ax, 33ff
 int 21
enter on blank line
 t
 t
 r
 d value in DS:value in AX

 All it does is use a to switch debug to assembly mode, input the
 instructions to execute the kernel interrupt that returns the version
 string, then trace just those two instructions (do not run with g),
 display the registers so you can see the values returned in DS:AX, and
 then using those values display (dump) the data there.

The pointer is returned in the DX:AX register pair, not DS:AX. With  
FreeDOS DEBUG, the registers can directly be used in the d command, too.  
These lines can be entered on FreeDOS DEBUG's prompt then:

 a
 mov ax, 33ff
 int 21
t
 t
 d dx:ax

The first ASCII zero (00 in the hex view) ends the returned string. Enter  
a single q on DEBUG's prompt to exit DEBUG.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question for load freedos by grub

[Alain Mouette]

This is what I use in my machine:

title   FreeDOS
root(hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader +1

In fact I don't know what the savedefault is for, but the rest I use 
for a long time.

Alain

Alan Zheng escreveu:
 Hello everyone:
 
 I try to load freedos by grub. so I refered from its isolinux.cfg to 
 write grub's menu.lst as below:
 
 title FreeDOS
 root (hd0,2)
 kernel /isolinux/data/memdisk
 initrd /isolinux/data/fdboot.img
 
 it looks can be loaded, but a problem is why there is only *freedos 
 safety model* in my loader menu list?
 
 Is I missing some arguments for grub loader or something? Can anyone 
 give me some ideas?
 
 -- 
 Refer to: http://www.microsuncn.com
 
 Best Regards
 
 Alan Zheng
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question for load freedos by grub

[Felix Miata]

On 2009/09/01 10:51 (GMT-0300) Alain Mouette composed:

 This is what I use in my machine:

 title FreeDOS
 root  (hd0,0)
 savedefault
 makeactive
 chainloader   +1

 In fact I don't know what the savedefault is for, but the rest I use 
 for a long time.

Grub has a decent manual: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html

Commands for all 5 lines you use:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#title
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#root
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#savedefault
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#makeactive
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#chainloader
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question for load freedos by grub

[Nathan Coulson]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Alan Zhengmachinecat1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone:

 I try to load freedos by grub. so I refered from its isolinux.cfg to write
 grub's menu.lst as below:

 title FreeDOS
 root (hd0,2)
 kernel /isolinux/data/memdisk
 initrd /isolinux/data/fdboot.img

 it looks can be loaded, but a problem is why there is only freedos safety
 model in my loader menu list?

 Is I missing some arguments for grub loader or something? Can anyone give me
 some ideas?


I recognize this code, memdisk is a special program that can be used
to load  boot a floppy image [which would be fdboot.img].

root (hd0,2)
chainloader +1

is probably what you are looking for.  It loads the bootloader off the
3rd partition.


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[Freedos-user] Question for load freedos by grub

[Alan Zheng]

Hello everyone:

I try to load freedos by grub. so I refered from its isolinux.cfg to write
grub's menu.lst as below:

title FreeDOS
root (hd0,2)
kernel /isolinux/data/memdisk
initrd /isolinux/data/fdboot.img

it looks can be loaded, but a problem is why there is only *freedos safety
model* in my loader menu list?

Is I missing some arguments for grub loader or something? Can anyone give me
some ideas?

-- 
Refer to: http://www.microsuncn.com

Best Regards

Alan Zheng
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Re: [Freedos-user] question from the faq about install

[Jim Hall]

Eric,

Something needs to be done with the FreeDOS FAQ. It was originally set
up to collect frequently-asked questions about FreeDOS. These days,
general questions do get asked there, but it's more often used to
submit bugs and to ask for I got a weird error help.

#2912 is not a FAQ - it's someone asking a specific, non-general
question about a problem that isn't common (at least, it's the first
I'd seen this install problem since 1.0 was released in Sept 2006.)
These kinds of questions should be asked on freedos-user where the
user can get help.

It would be better to NOT allow users to ask new questions on the FAQ,
but only provide followup. An admin (Eric?) should be the one to enter
frequently-asked questions, with an initial followup/answer. And users
would be able to submit their own answers to add to it.

-jh

On 3/8/08, Eric Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Hi, could somebody check and update the FAQ item at:
  http://fd-doc.sourceforge.net/faq/cgi-bin/viewfaq.cgi?faq=incoming/2912
  thanks :-). Please do also mail martinaciccarello * libero.it then.

  Eric

  Forwarded question:

  dear all.
  I tried to install Freedos on my new pc but when I arrive at the
  step when it requires to choose or not to go for Bootsector I can
  not go on.
  I follow the instructions but I am stucked both if I press NO +enter
  or just ENTER to accept to create bootsector, it appears C:\FDOS_
  and then I can not go on.
  What shoul I do?
  Thanks



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[Freedos-user] question from the faq about install

[Eric Auer]

Hi, could somebody check and update the FAQ item at:
http://fd-doc.sourceforge.net/faq/cgi-bin/viewfaq.cgi?faq=incoming/2912
thanks :-). Please do also mail martinaciccarello * libero.it then.

Eric

Forwarded question:

dear all.
I tried to install Freedos on my new pc but when I arrive at the
step when it requires to choose or not to go for Bootsector I can
not go on.
I follow the instructions but I am stucked both if I press NO +enter
or just ENTER to accept to create bootsector, it appears C:\FDOS_
and then I can not go on.
What shoul I do?
Thanks



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Daniel Franzini]

does 2004's extensions work on virtual PC 2007?

sounds interesting.altough writing a driver would be quite fun, i
have some other DOS-related projects i'm involved in and it is really
painfull to work on these without shared folders...

WOW, i've found that i have a installer for the 2004 version of
virtual PCin fact, 2004 was the first one that was made freeware
by microsofti have used it in work, porting some pascal
application (which communicates with a ISA card)...this was near
jan/2006 as far as i can remember


On 7/5/07, Norbert Remmel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Daniel,

  i'm also in the quest of writing
  a driver for FreeDOS in order to allow one to use the shared folders
  (it seems that no VM has shared folders for FreeDOS at all...at least
  in my experience: VirtualBOX, VirtualPC and VMWare don't have
  it)


 VirtualPC used to have it in the past.
 Go and get VirtualPC 2004. It includes Virtual machine extensions for
 DOS so you can use shared local folders.
 Microsoft dropped support for DOS in their latest release. That's why
 these extensions are not shipped with VirtualPC 2007 - but you can still
 use these from 2004.

 Regards

 Norbert.

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Let us change our traditional attitude to the construction of
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computer what to do, let us concentrate rather on explaining to human
beings what we want a computer to do. (Donald Knuth)

Yes, technogeeks can be funny, even if only to each other.
(http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/science/humor/)

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Norbert Remmel]

 does 2004's extensions work on virtual PC 2007?

Yes, it does.
Keep in mind, that you load these shared folder drivers included in VPC
2004 before any emm386 in config.sys.
Otherwise you will get an exception error.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Norbert Remmel]

 One should keep in mind, that Microsoft indeed has changed the VirtualPC 
from their first version (2004) on - we used the pre-Microsoft version 
 of that tool for a DOS based software and Novell Netware connector. 
 Starting with VirtualPC (from Microsoft) the network speed reduces 
 dramatically .. therefore we gave up the idea of using the VirtualPC 
 for that stuff.

I haven't ever used the pre microsoft version.
The only thing I can say is, that using network client 3.0 under DOS
works at an acceptable speed compared to other emulators like VBOX, QEMU
and BOCHS.
Perhaps it is not fast enough to perform some corporate related tasks,
but for testing purposes it will be really o.k.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Giorgos]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your comments!!!


Regards!!!
Giorgos. :-)

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[Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Giorgos]

Hi!!! :-)

I read yesterday, a mail from chieffy (from FSM) to FSM subscribers, that 
points at these pages:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/using_virtualbox_to_run_ubuntu
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Using_VirtualBox_to_run_Ubuntu_and_any_other_operating_system

It refers to http://virtualbox.org/ (that comes with freeware binaries and 
open source sources).
Since I heard about it at chieffy's mail for the first time, I want to ask 
you:
Is someone here, familiar with it? Can he compare it with VMWARE Server? Is 
it better or worse? Is it faster or slower? Is it emulating FreeDOS 
properly? What about (free) support options?
If someone is familiar with it, please share his experience - opinion, with 
us.

THANKS!!!
Giorgos. :-) 


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Daniel Franzini]

On 7/4/07, Giorgos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi!!! :-)


 hi


 Is someone here, familiar with it?

what do you take for familiar? i have used it sometimes and it worked
fine to me...Win95 for basic stuffi'm also in the quest of writing
a driver for FreeDOS in order to allow one to use the shared folders
(it seems that no VM has shared folders for FreeDOS at all...at least
in my experience: VirtualBOX, VirtualPC and VMWare don't have
it)i've browsed the virtualbox sourcecode but i cannot find (yet)
the exact point where it allows the SO to read/write the local
folder...all i could find was a LOT of WinNT kernel-mode driver
code...

 Can he compare it with VMWARE Server? Is
 it better or worse? Is it faster or slower? Is it emulating FreeDOS
 properly? What about (free) support options?

well, since VMWare Server is freeware you can make you own tests with
it against virtualbox...i don't use vmware so i cannot tell much...i'm
also not sure about support options

just a correction: virtualbox (and others) does not 'emulate'
FreeDOS...they emulate (or at least try to) a full standard x86
machine...the strategy to achieve performance is to let x86 native
code run as x86 native code and not to interpret it with the
vmvmware implementation does this as well as virtualbox'sin
the VM they create, one can install FreeDOS, or any Linux flavor, or
Windows, or BSDs, or anything else wich seems to be an operating
system

 If someone is familiar with it, please share his experience - opinion, with
 us.




 THANKS!!!
 Giorgos. :-)


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-- 
Daniel

Let us change our traditional attitude to the construction of
programs. Instead of imagining that our main task is to instruct a
computer what to do, let us concentrate rather on explaining to human
beings what we want a computer to do. (Donald Knuth)

Yes, technogeeks can be funny, even if only to each other.
(http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/science/humor/)

Man is driven to create; I know I really love to create things. And
while I'm not good at painting, drawing, or music, I can write
software. (Yukihiro Matsumoto, a.k.a. ``Matz'')

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Alain M.]

I never used Virtual Box, but I can say this:

VMware is very good, *except* for DOS graphics programs. graphics screen 
is very slow. With Win98 and a special drivers it is good. Network 
is ok, I could only share folders as network disks.

Qemu is faster for graphics in DOS. It has some limitations and is 
harder to setup. Network ok too.

DOSEMU is fast i graphics too. Network is packet driver only but you can 
map any letter to any Linus folder, so in fact this is better than 
shared folders or netwoked drivers.

Alain


Giorgos escreveu:
 Hi!!! :-)
 
 I read yesterday, a mail from chieffy (from FSM) to FSM subscribers, that 
 points at these pages:
 http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/using_virtualbox_to_run_ubuntu
 http://digg.com/linux_unix/Using_VirtualBox_to_run_Ubuntu_and_any_other_operating_system
 
 It refers to http://virtualbox.org/ (that comes with freeware binaries and 
 open source sources).
 Since I heard about it at chieffy's mail for the first time, I want to ask 
 you:
 Is someone here, familiar with it? Can he compare it with VMWARE Server? Is 
 it better or worse? Is it faster or slower? Is it emulating FreeDOS 
 properly? What about (free) support options?
 If someone is familiar with it, please share his experience - opinion, with 
 us.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Norbert Remmel]

Hi Giorgos,

Virtual Box is working well.
It is fast - nearly as fast as virtual pc 2007.
In emulating FreeDOS there is no problem at all.
There seem to be some issues with acpi but that is irrelevant for using
freedos in most cases.

The binary you can get from virtualbox.org is only free for private use.
If you want to use it for business you have to compile it from sources
by yourself.

You can get help in the virtualbox forum.

Regards

Norbert

 I read yesterday, a mail from chieffy (from FSM) to FSM subscribers, that 
 points at these pages:
 http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/using_virtualbox_to_run_ubuntu
 http://digg.com/linux_unix/Using_VirtualBox_to_run_Ubuntu_and_any_other_operating_system
 
 It refers to http://virtualbox.org/ (that comes with freeware binaries and 
 open source sources).
 Since I heard about it at chieffy's mail for the first time, I want to ask 
 you:
 Is someone here, familiar with it? Can he compare it with VMWARE Server? Is 
 it better or worse? Is it faster or slower? Is it emulating FreeDOS 
 properly? What about (free) support options?
 If someone is familiar with it, please share his experience - opinion, with 
 us.
 
 THANKS!!!
 Giorgos. :-) 


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Norbert Remmel]

Hi Daniel,

 i'm also in the quest of writing
 a driver for FreeDOS in order to allow one to use the shared folders
 (it seems that no VM has shared folders for FreeDOS at all...at least
 in my experience: VirtualBOX, VirtualPC and VMWare don't have
 it)


VirtualPC used to have it in the past.
Go and get VirtualPC 2004. It includes Virtual machine extensions for
DOS so you can use shared local folders.
Microsoft dropped support for DOS in their latest release. That's why
these extensions are not shipped with VirtualPC 2007 - but you can still
use these from 2004.

Regards

Norbert.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about Virtual Box performance.

[Marten Feldtmann]

One should keep in mind, that Microsoft indeed has changed the VirtualPC 
from their first version (2004) on - we used the pre-Microsoft version 
of that tool for a DOS based software and Novell Netware connector. 
Starting with VirtualPC (from Microsoft) the network speed reduces 
dramatically .. therefore we gave up the idea of using the VirtualPC 
for that stuff.

Marten

Norbert Remmel schrieb:

 VirtualPC used to have it in the past.
 Go and get VirtualPC 2004. It includes Virtual machine extensions for
 DOS so you can use shared local folders.
 Microsoft dropped support for DOS in their latest release. That's why
 these extensions are not shipped with VirtualPC 2007 - but you can still
 use these from 2004.

   


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question in Turkish about USB disk filesystem problem?

[Charlie Wilkes]

Yes.  I've had this problem using DOS/9x tools on
fat32 thumb drives.  I have to use w2k or XP. 
Otherwise I end up with an undersized volume.

Charlie
 
 I have encountered these problems on USB sticks
 before, and the issue
 was resolved with a reformat.
 


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[Freedos-user] Question in Turkish about USB disk filesystem problem?

[Eric Auer]

Hi, I got some alledgedly FAT / USB drive related question...
But the question is in Turkish language. I replaced the dotless
lowercase i by I and the accented g by G for mailing. Maybe
one of you can tell me what the two mails below want to tell me:

Common part:

merhaba, ben bir hafta önce sony  2.0 micro valut  usb aldIm. 4 gb lIk .
fakat onu kullanIrken hafIzasI 62 mb ' a dustu. bu nasIl oldu?

First mail:

usb nin 
yazIlImIndan mI yoksa ben mi sildim bilmiyorum.usb nin içinden sizin e-mail
inizi buldum. siz sorunun ne olduGunu anlarsInIz diye.

Second mail:

usb nin 
yazIlImIndan mI bir soru var yoksa ben mi sildim bilmiyorum.usb nin içinden
sizin e-mail inizi buldum. siz sorunun ne olduGunu anlarsInIz diyesize
e-mail yolladIm.

(note: önce and içinden are ouml;nce and iccedille;inden
in pseudo-HTML notation, I assume that those 2 umlauts are
shown okay in email...)

The author also sent an English version:

hi i have a sony usb 2.0 micro valut   but a have a problem. my usb memory 
storage is delet. when i buy it the storage is 4 GB but after use it the 
memory storage be come 62 what i will do. can you help me. i think the 
software has a problem can you solve the problem if you solve the problem i 
will be wery happy please send me your ansver .



... so, what is his problem? I believe he has only 62 MB free on
his 4 GB micro drive (micro vault, either 1in harddisk or flash disk
I guess) after having deleted all files? Maybe a format tool would help?


Eric

(Thanks for your translation help :-))



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[Freedos-user] question, a telnet program for dos

[M. Csabi]

Hi all,

I need a very good telnet program for DOS.
I use NCSA telnet, but it's program is problematic for me, i 
can't edit files (arrows can't handle a terminal)...

I think it is a VT100 terminal problem :(
This is a .tel file problem, or NCSA telnet bug?
If only the .tel files incorrect, can you send me a correct .tel 
files?


Thanx: Csabi



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[Freedos-user] Question: VIM for DOS

[Eric Auer]

Hi, has any VIM user tried the DOS version recently, in particular
the 32bit DOS version (you probably need CWSDPMI to run it) vim63d32.zip?

http://www.vim.org/download.php

As VIM-non-user it is always hard to tell whether you have a good
port installed or not X-).

For me, that is. I personally do not want to use VIM, but
http://www.freedos.org/freedos/software/lsm.cgi?q=fa=edit/vim.lsm
still lists 6.0, and I wonder how much has changed since then.

Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question: VIM for DOS

[Florian Xaver]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi!

I tried it last year. But i don't like it. For editing i usually use
SetEdit or Necromancer DOS Navigator.

Bye, Flo
- --
http://www.drdos.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFCOxPWq2aHU5S35E0RAqP3AKCYhGT6qBXZssck3+qZO6NaaonOvACgzAnl
LnTt94lGgEAbZ+z9dYBDdhc=
=Rxvf
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [Freedos-user] Question

[Theresa Westbrook]

FreeDos is legal, isn't it?Charlie Wilkes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Theresa Westbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: So - What can I do with Freedos that I cannot currently do with my laptop? Here is one that was turned into a picture frame:http://freedos.rtin.bz/freedos/laptops/dell/lat433c/Windows 3.1 is about right for that type of computer. Some people just snag the files off another oldcomputer and copy them over, because it works. However, it robs the shareholders of MicrosoftCorporation by depriving an ebay vendor of a $10 sale,and that's why it is illegal.Charlie__ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ---SF email is sponsored by - 
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[Freedos-user] Question

[Theresa Westbrook]

So - What can I do with Freedos that I cannot currently do with my laptop?

Re: [Freedos-user] Question

[Kristaps Kaupe]

 So - What can I do with Freedos that I cannot currently do with my laptop?

Well, you will be able to get support from FreeDOS users community :)

But If seriously - what laptop do you have? which OS do you run on it 
currently?

Kristaps Kaupe,
http://kristaps.netparks.lv



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question

[Florian Xaver]

What do you have installed on the laptop? (which os?)
Bye, Flo
--
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Re: [Freedos-user] Question

[Theresa Westbrook]

Win 95Florian Xaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What do you have installed on the laptop? (which os?)Bye, Flo-- ---SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product GuideRead honest  candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595alloc_id=14396op=click___Freedos-user mailing listFreedos-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] Question: How to use CMedia CM8738 sound in DOS?

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

5--2005 13:27 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johnson Lam) wrote to
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net:

JL We can't stay in ISA world anymore,

 Yes, this is so. :(

JL even PCI will be replaced by PCI-Express.

 Not in near 2-3 years. :) And, fortunately, PCI-E (in theory) is
software compatible with PCI.

PS: Looks like MS-6380 (KT3 Ultra) motherboard with Realtek ALC650 never
bothers itself with SB compatability and not allows to select IRQs. :(




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Re: [Freedos-user] Question: How to use CMedia CM8738 sound in DOS?

[Nicholas Basso]

CMI chips suck balls.  That said, C-Media has a decent dos driver with the
new software versions they had, so... that might fix it, it might not.  It
requires a bit of info about your board...

- Original Message -
From: Eric Auer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 15:42
Subject: [Freedos-user] Question: How to use CMedia CM8738 sound in DOS?



 Hi, I am trying to make CMedia CM8738 onboard sound work in DOS.
 The drivers (downloaded them) just find the PCI device, read the
 IRQ and port base, check if PCI config register 4 and 5 equals 5
 (if busmaster is on), does a bit of i/o
 (base+4 = word e, base+18 = 3, base+16 = base+16 or 10,
 base+21 = 5, base+27 = 1, 224 = 80, 225 = VALUE, 224 = 81, 225 = 22)
 and hooks the PCI IRQ with a redirector to the selected NORMAL IRQ
 (e.g. PCI sound chip triggers IRQ 12, and the TSR simulates IRQ 5
 when that happens). The base is found in PCI config reg 10 (low byte
 of word ignored), the IRQ is in PCI config reg 3c. The device is
 found by scanning the PCI bus for a device by vendor 13f6 (CMedia, I
 assume) or 10b9 (in THAT case, the device ID is also checked to be
 in 100-200 range. However, in my case, the ID is 13f6:0111).

 Whatever. Everything nice and techy. The more clever DOS programs
 even work with selecting IRQ 12 directly without the TSR in RAM.
 But only Adlib and mixer REALLY work. When I try doing 8bit sound,
 I get silence, and for 16bit sound, using DMA 1 for both high and
 low DMA channel (hardcoded to the setaudio CMedia tool, it seems),
 I get noise. Very annoying.

 Am I doing something stupid here or is it just a KNOWN problem that
 C-Media sound chips have crappy DMA and therefore can only be used
 for boring Adlib sound in DOS?

 I think I have read of other people with C-Media on this list before,
 so maybe somebody can help me out here. Thanks!

 Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FDAPM suspend versus clock

[Arkady V.Belousov]

Hi!

12--2004 23:03 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eric Auer) wrote to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

EA Hi, I got a report that FDAPM SUSPEND mode stops the timer tick clock
EA (so far so good) and fails to update it to current time when waking up.
EA Does that happen for you, too, or does it only happen for a few BIOSes?
EA The FDAPM STANDBY mode does not stop the timer, as the CPU is not halted
EA completely - but less energy is saved, too.

 On my (probably, not very correct machine) your FDAPM SUSPEND under
plain DOS (in DOS box W98 closes DOS box because invalid instruction) stops
disk and turns off monitor, but immediately after this FDAPM wakeups.

EA I could add a function which updates the timer tick clock by converting
EA the CMOS wall clock time to timer tick units when waking up from suspend,
EA but only if it is a common problem that the tick clock stops during suspend.




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[Freedos-user] Question about FDAPM suspend versus clock

[Eric Auer]

Hi, I got a report that FDAPM SUSPEND mode stops the timer tick clock
(so far so good) and fails to update it to current time when waking up.
Does that happen for you, too, or does it only happen for a few BIOSes?
The FDAPM STANDBY mode does not stop the timer, as the CPU is not halted
completely - but less energy is saved, too.

I could add a function which updates the timer tick clock by converting
the CMOS wall clock time to timer tick units when waking up from suspend,
but only if it is a common problem that the tick clock stops during suspend.

Eric



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