Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
and either desire entry or desire justice. The poor slobs have been used by the ambitious for millennia, will anything ever change.? Perpetual Growth, unlimited energy , unlimited military power, unlimited manpower all seem to be current UnBelievable concepts. Without a convincing delusion most Groups would disintegrate. Human beings are not rational but have a strong belief that they are, because they are chosen by God ; again UnBelievable based on another UnBelievable. If we wish to model human behavior we have dispense with the unbelievable assumption that they are acting in their own best interests, they clearly are not and have never. Some do fit this concept but usually they are at the fringes of society. The UnBelievable ideas almost always stink of some form of self referential circuitous logic. The model of human societies should never include our own wishful imaginings about ourselves the evidence is plainly before our eyes but blindness obscures our thinking. There are the pleasant Garden Clubs for orchid fanciers and there are Academic Structures that protect crooks and paedophiles. In fact a person may actually occupy a position in both. I would be intrigued by what that implies. I was once shocked to learn of such a case while I was still attached to academia. I could not for the life of me understand who it could have gone undetected for so many years. The answer is willful blindness. Objecting to the blindness of others is a very dangerous sport. The willful blindness was pointed out in a different manner when the FBI itself revealed that a victim must tell his story to 7 people before one will act. I think that comes out to nearly 80% of us, who are functional collaborators. I suspect that 8 out of 10 Occupy Wall Street protestors would happily collaborate with a new regime if given the chance. While some of the issues are legitimate they will be quickly forgotten with some bribe, Loaves to the masses Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD mailto:vbur...@shaw.ca vbur...@shaw.ca 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2 Canada (204) 2548321 Land (204) 8016064 Cell From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: November-12-11 1:30 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Does this apply to Google Groups as well ;^) How to make people feel they are part of a Group. If they collectively decide to cover up a crime through willful blindness then they establish some certainty that they belong. Groups seem to demand that individuals Believe the unBelievable. It seems that some human beings have the capacity to smooth out ethical contradictions by simply choosing to live in another reality. When many people choose to live in the same delusion they are effectively a Group. There seems to be a belief that Groups can exonerate the individual through Magic and Amnesia. The recent news of sexual crimes in Penn State reinforce this perspective. The Group seems able to deny it's crimes while selecting a scapegoat to carry their burdens. Groups seem much stronger when Criminality is involved even though each individual denies it's existence. The Group might be nothing more than a psychological construct to absorb Guilt and at a high price. Groups seem to choose Noble leaders to establish a pretense of heroicism and much later dispose of the leader along with the memory of their individual crimes This seems characteristic of much current political drama. Reluctant scapegoats fight tooth and nail to avoid the demand to be sacrificed for the good people. The Group has a fantastic attribute of Goodness which disguises the Dark side of perversity. People mostly use this contradiction to satisfy their own problems. I would have thought that as our population increases that corruption would prevail, however there do seem to be indications that many are bucking the trend. Groups seem very well devised to exclude individuals that have questionable ethics. These Groups have inadvertantly created their own nemesis. The history of confronting corruption is dismal overall. Managers seem particularly prone to Group Think and demonstrate that they are absolutely convinced that they can ignore all legal responsibility for individual acts. Society still is unprepared to prosecute Group Think in all its devilish rationalizations. The lack of meaningful leadership globally is perhaps due to so many living I a delusional state of mind where someone else will always end up being scapegoated. At least Pontius Pilot tried to wash his own hands. Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD vbur...@shaw.ca 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2 Canada (204) 2548321 Land (204) 8016064 Cell From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Being somewhat close to the problem, I'm not sure what the connection is between this criticism and what is happening at Penn State. Specifically, I'm not sure how it is scapegoating if the Director of Athletics, the Vice President of Business and Finance, the legendary football coach, and the 20 year running college President have all gotten the axe. Coach Paterno might well qualify as a scapegoat, as the media got him fired, and it is not clear that his own (in)action warranted the move. (I'm not saying Paterno should not have been fired, I'm just saying that it is unclear given the evidence available to the public.) The other three people, however, seem to be exactly the people to blame, and are the highest heads one could chop. They are hardly people chosen at random to shoulder the blame. This isn't Scooter Libby taking the blame for the Dick Cheney, this is the President, a Vice President, and two cabinet level people taking the blunt of the blame directly. Of course, there were group dynamics involved in the original cover up. And there have been crazy reactions, such as one of the people who reported a witnessed crime receiving death threats. But I'm not really sure about how your criticism relates to the main current events. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 07:44 PM, Vladimyr Burachynsky vbur...@shaw.ca wrote: How to make people feel they are part of a Group… If they collectively decide to cover up a crime through willful blindness then they establish some certainty that they belong. Groups seem to demand that individuals Believe the unBelievable. It seems that some human beings have the capacity to smooth out ethical contradictions by simply choosing to live in another reality. When many people choose to live in the same delusion they are effectively a Group. There seems to be a belief that Groups can exonerate the individual through Magic and Amnesia. The recent news of sexual crimes in Penn State reinforce this perspective. The Group seems able to deny it’s crimes while selecting a scapegoat to carry their burdens. Groups seem much stronger when Criminality is involved even though each individual denies it’s existence. The Group might be nothing more than a psychological construct to absorb Guilt and at a high price. Groups seem to choose Noble leaders to establish a pretense of heroicism and much later dispose of the leader along with the memory of their individual crimes This seems characteristic of much current political drama. Reluctant scapegoats fight tooth and nail to avoid the demand to be sacrificed for the good people. The Group has a fantastic attribute of Goodness which disguises the Dark side of perversity. People mostly use this contradiction to satisfy their own problems. I would have thought that as our population increases that corruption would prevail, however there do seem to be indications that many are bucking the trend. Groups seem very well devised to exclude individuals that have questionable ethics. These Groups have inadvertantly created their own nemesis. The history of confronting corruption is dismal overall. Managers seem particularly prone to Group Think and demonstrate that they are absolutely convinced that they can ignore all legal responsibility for individual acts. Society still is unprepared to prosecute Group Think in all its devilish rationalizations. The lack of meaningful leadership globally is perhaps due to so many living I a delusional state of mind where someone else will always end up being scapegoated. At least Pontius Pilot tried to wash his own hands. Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD # 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2 Canada (204) 2548321 Land (204) 8016064 Cell From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES Sent: October-27-11 9:32 PM To: Gillian Densmore Cc: Anne Rowland; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Gillian, H trying to put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
How to make people feel they are part of a Group… If they collectively decide to cover up a crime through willful blindness then they establish some certainty that they belong. Groups seem to demand that individuals Believe the unBelievable. It seems that some human beings have the capacity to smooth out ethical contradictions by simply choosing to live in another reality. When many people choose to live in the same delusion they are effectively a Group. There seems to be a belief that Groups can exonerate the individual through Magic and Amnesia. The recent news of sexual crimes in Penn State reinforce this perspective. The Group seems able to deny it’s crimes while selecting a scapegoat to carry their burdens. Groups seem much stronger when Criminality is involved even though each individual denies it’s existence. The Group might be nothing more than a psychological construct to absorb Guilt and at a high price. Groups seem to choose Noble leaders to establish a pretense of heroicism and much later dispose of the leader along with the memory of their individual crimes This seems characteristic of much current political drama. Reluctant scapegoats fight tooth and nail to avoid the demand to be sacrificed for the good people. The Group has a fantastic attribute of Goodness which disguises the Dark side of perversity. People mostly use this contradiction to satisfy their own problems. I would have thought that as our population increases that corruption would prevail, however there do seem to be indications that many are bucking the trend. Groups seem very well devised to exclude individuals that have questionable ethics. These Groups have inadvertantly created their own nemesis. The history of confronting corruption is dismal overall. Managers seem particularly prone to Group Think and demonstrate that they are absolutely convinced that they can ignore all legal responsibility for individual acts. Society still is unprepared to prosecute Group Think in all its devilish rationalizations. The lack of meaningful leadership globally is perhaps due to so many living I a delusional state of mind where someone else will always end up being scapegoated. At least Pontius Pilot tried to wash his own hands. Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD vbur...@shaw.ca 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2 Canada (204) 2548321 Land (204) 8016064 Cell From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES Sent: October-27-11 9:32 PM To: Gillian Densmore Cc: Anne Rowland; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Gillian, H trying to put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Does this apply to Google Groups as well ;^) How to make people feel they are part of a Group... If they collectively decide to cover up a crime through willful blindness then they establish some certainty that they belong. Groups seem to demand that individuals Believe the unBelievable. It seems that some human beings have the capacity to smooth out ethical contradictions by simply choosing to live in another reality. When many people choose to live in the same delusion they are effectively a Group. There seems to be a belief that Groups can exonerate the individual through Magic and Amnesia. The recent news of sexual crimes in Penn State reinforce this perspective. The Group seems able to deny it's crimes while selecting a scapegoat to carry their burdens. Groups seem much stronger when Criminality is involved even though each individual denies it's existence. The Group might be nothing more than a psychological construct to absorb Guilt and at a high price. Groups seem to choose Noble leaders to establish a pretense of heroicism and much later dispose of the leader along with the memory of their individual crimes This seems characteristic of much current political drama. Reluctant scapegoats fight tooth and nail to avoid the demand to be sacrificed for the good people. The Group has a fantastic attribute of Goodness which disguises the Dark side of perversity. People mostly use this contradiction to satisfy their own problems. I would have thought that as our population increases that corruption would prevail, however there do seem to be indications that many are bucking the trend. Groups seem very well devised to exclude individuals that have questionable ethics. These Groups have inadvertantly created their own nemesis. The history of confronting corruption is dismal overall. Managers seem particularly prone to Group Think and demonstrate that they are absolutely convinced that they can ignore all legal responsibility for individual acts. Society still is unprepared to prosecute Group Think in all its devilish rationalizations. The lack of meaningful leadership globally is perhaps due to so many living I a delusional state of mind where someone else will always end up being scapegoated. At least Pontius Pilot tried to wash his own hands. Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD vbur...@shaw.ca mailto:vbur...@shaw.ca 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd. Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2 Canada (204) 2548321 Land (204) 8016064 Cell *From:*friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *ERIC P. CHARLES *Sent:* October-27-11 9:32 PM *To:* Gillian Densmore *Cc:* Anne Rowland; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Gillian, H trying to put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, *Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com mailto:gil.densm...@gmail.com* wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
How good to see such humane, thoughtful, generous, respectful, humble, competent SHARING within single human family, within all of single entire unified creative fractal hyperinfinity, not hyper finicky... Rich On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Carl Tollander c...@plektyx.com wrote: Group membership is not necessarily self-selecting. Perceiving group identity, deciding to be part of the group, working to be accepted into the group, and having the group 'accept' a member are different activities, and of course there are multiple groups with competing, occasionally dynamic membership criteria and membership itself is fuzzy. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. “You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of discernment, not evolution. Thus there is no becoming enlightened; instead the veil of ignorance falls away through discrimination and there is seeing in-the-light of your true nature. Enlightened Being - Being is happening - Breathing is happening the Agent is the Actor - Love is what it does! What nature makes you do instinctively you can optimise when you understand the law governing the process. ~ James Traverse FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. . On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote: Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. “You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of discernment, not evolution. Thus there is no becoming enlightened; instead the veil of ignorance falls away through discrimination and there is seeing in-the-light of your true nature. Enlightened Being - Being is happening - Breathing is happening the Agent is the Actor - Love is what it does! What nature makes you do instinctively you can optimise when you understand the law governing the process. ~ James Traverse FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Hi 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. is roughly what an average productive worker (and his large extended family) in a LDC survives on for a YEAR. It seems to me that a bunch of very rich nations led by the USA have gotten together and decided to interfere (citing human rights etc.) in the affairs of other nations to control (and tremendously profit from) the supply of common resources like OIL and GAS, thereby eventually causing your 99% (most of whom live way beyond their means anyway in a credit based bubble economy) to come onto the streets (or the internet). Philip K Dick anticipated this 60 years ago and a good solution would be to have collective amnesia over all the money (and carbon credits) Americans owe the rest of the world. Sarbajit On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:47 AM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.comwrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Gillian, H trying to put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. . On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote: Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. “You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of discernment, not evolution. Thus there is no becoming enlightened; instead the veil of ignorance falls away through discrimination and there is seeing in-the-light of your true nature. Enlightened Being - Being is happening - Breathing is happening the Agent is the Actor - Love is what it does! What nature makes you do instinctively you can optimise when you understand the law governing the process. ~ James Traverse FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
I think these are the right questions, Eric. Given that people can be progroup and anti group and given that groups can be benign and vicious, how do we promote benign groupness. N From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:32 PM To: Gillian Densmore Cc: Anne Rowland; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Gillian, H trying to put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. . On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote: Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. “You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew.” ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of discernment, not evolution. Thus there is no becoming enlightened; instead the veil of ignorance falls away through discrimination and there is seeing in-the-light of your true nature. Enlightened Being
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
The issue may not be how to get the advantaged to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group. The issue is that they do that by failing to see that anyone is disadvantaged. On 10/27/11 8:32 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: Gillian, H tryingto put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, *Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com* wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. . On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Rich Murrayrmfor...@gmail.com wrote: Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew. ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of discernment, not evolution. Thus there is no becoming enlightened; instead the veil of ignorance falls away through discrimination and there is seeing
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Group membership is not necessarily self-selecting. Perceiving group identity, deciding to be part of the group, working to be accepted into the group, and having the group 'accept' a member are different activities, and of course there are multiple groups with competing, occasionally dynamic membership criteria and membership itself is fuzzy. On 10/27/11 8:32 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: Gillian, H tryingto put my evolutionary psychology hat on, and feeling like I am not doing it quite as well as I should Humans ARE programed to do things for the good of their groups. The question then is: How do we get people to feel as if they are part of a group? and How do we get people to expand the size of the group they feel they are part of? One subsection of those questions, a small, but not insignificant part, is wondering: How do we get advantaged people to include the disadvantaged as part of 'their' group? Ultimately, if we had the right knowledge, this would be a perfect problem to tackle with agent based modeling. If we knew what types of experiences people needed to feel as if they were part of a group, and we knew what types of experiences were needed to expand felt-group size, then we start designing various worlds along various principles to see which produce the best outcome. The complexity will be too high to solve the problem any other way. Alas... what are the factors? Eric On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 05:17 PM, *Gillian Densmore gil.densm...@gmail.com* wrote: Interesting discution going on here. Feeling like one of the 99% on some levels. Rich Muray's proposed list on some levels makes sense. Higher min wage for example how are you suposed to actually live on $9.00 an hour? even full time that's only 360 a week (before tax). Ouch. Another one that stuck out was free health care- could work. Depending on how it's implimented. The general idea of more stuff taken for baseline for more (or all ) citizens and increasing the quality of life would seem to provide some net benifits. I think Nick asked how it gets funded wich might realy be asking: as humans are we willing to pool together a pot of money to increase the quality of life for all? Just as a here in the comunity example: I'm going to school to (theoreticly) increase my odds of being a productive citizen by X%. Should one of the applications and varius forms of asistance pan out I have a net X% extra chance of employment at the end of the week I'd rather my hard earned money going to a pot of money that helps raise quality of life for my self and others by X%. Theoreticly humans are programed to work together twards a better good. At some point of year N things get jaded or complicated and as Agents we loose sight that a healthy comunity of N people(or agents) makes for a stronger whole. Wouldn't it therefore be better to invest y sources of rescources twards things that achieve that goal? just my as a 0.2c as a agent among many. . On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Rich Murrayrmfor...@gmail.com wrote: Since my remarks were perhaps tersely shocking, here is a clear overview by James Traverse: http://www.beingyoga.com/ [ For more, search Google nonduality... ] Know Thyself Be a Light unto Yourself Form is Seeing and Seeing is Being. ~ Atmananda Krishna Menon Being is Seeing and Seeing is Doing ~ James Traverse Liberation is from the person, not for the person ~ Jean Klein Mistaken identity, the wrong turning of the mind, is the cause of all conflict and discord. The solution is the living understanding of your true nature which is not thought based knowledge as it is prior to thinking. Awareness is the means and the end. There is nothing to become since Being Awareness is already happening yet there is a returning to innocence knowingly as the false mentally generated knowledge of mistaken identity is seen and allowed to fall away. This Living Awareness as your true nature is the light of understanding that dispels the darkness of ignorance that is the root of mistaken identity and separation. You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it. You must learn to see the world anew. ~ Albert Einstein The problem of mistaken identity is a problem of self-knowledge as false knowledge of your true nature. It is a mentally generated problem that is resolved by Awareness as the primal intelligence that sees the false as false and no longer supports it. In this way the impostor of mistaken identity dies through starvation - what remains is pure Awareness wherein all of your faculties are free to function without distortion. Enlightenment is a matter of
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
What a wonderful treat on Wednesday night in Santa Fe, New Mexico, Earth, Observable Universe, the immensely huger Unobservable Universe ( a multiplication by a number greater than 1 with 75 million zeros ) within the same expanding space-time-energy universe bubble, within a source infinity that effortlessly allows infinities of such universe bubbles, and far, far more, which I point at by saying, Each of us is already always all of single entire unified creative fractal hyperinfinity... So we are sentient raisins with cinnamon in a very big, stupendous and sweet cake, always cooking, always fresh, forever moist... What Jesus said, The Kingdom of Heaven is within thee... He shot off his mouth sometimes, overturned some tables, but carried no weapons, and didn't even avoid arrest... The early Christians were communists, sharing their worldly goods, sharing inspired ecstasy and many literal miracles... So, loving and enjoying and treasuring the various lines of thought shared well and sweetly by my niece and my colleague, rather than fiddle with the dials of life, trying to tune in the right station amidst the storm of chaotic channels and outright static, I teasingly offer the alternative of personally requestioning everything, everything, for if all this has a single root, what is it, really? Did the root vanish and become irrelevant because a huge ecology always evolving vegetation seems to both express its being and power and yet seem to also cover, obscure, and even contradict it? Or is the root immune, absolute, real, beyond spaces and times, actually infinite -- and fractal means that every tiniest bit of it is all of it... Or even radically already here, within awareness, the soft quiet dark soul soil of your awareness this very instant, the soft damp warm fertile soil that supports every weed and flower of sensation, perception, memory, thought, family, society, physical environment?... So, my list is everything that fits within a global Christ realized communism, not bureaucratized or controlled, but a sweet sanity of forever incredibly compex interacting innovations that profoundly enrich and bless all participants within a completely open reality play that practically totally transcends all previous human cultural structures of identity, location, communication, space, time, causality, life, death, sharing infinitely incandescent creative glory in unimpeachable holiness and forever unlimited unique individuality -- why praise ye me, for it is the Father within that doeth the works? Please, I beg thee, be curious -- what is spiritual experience? Can you imagine such a thing in your life as vigorously growing, ever evolving, unpredictable, literally inconceivable personal experience that nevertheless can be easily be shared -- Where two or more are gathered in my meaning, there also I must be... Please, do not just sit, crawl, or walk in circles, rush for the exit! Everything at once is the exit... Where is this very present moment of deeply personal experience, in which the visual field of your awareness creates and generates plentiful meanings from these very little crooked le t t er marks.. . . .. . . ? Where is here? Where is hear? within mutual service, Rich On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Ok, I have a moment. Let me try to answer some of your points here. First, let me say that I don’t think Uncle Richard and I agree on everything. Second, I think I disagree with you even more. Third, I think – feel, what have you – that if people who disagree with one another don’t learn to talk to each other in this country, we are doomed. Four, I think most people most of the time start with their conclusions, and work back, changing their view of the facts and reasoning as necessary to conserve their conclusions. So, for minds to change in an argument is VERY VERY rare. But we must try. From: Anne Rowland [mailto:annerowlandmu...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:32 PM To: Rich Murray; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Rich Murray Cc: nickthomp...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc. Dear Uncle Richard, I've read through your e-mail and although I love you and respect your spiritual nature, I have to disagree with many of your suggestions. In an ideal utopia populated by unselfish people, some of these ideas might work, but we don't live in such a world at this time. [NST ==] People are neither inherently selfish or unselfish. It depends on the circumstances. And selfishness is neither inherently evil or inherently good. Groups can do evil and unselfish adherence to a group that is doing evil can be the worst sort of evil. You've suggested free health care, free phone and internet access, free food, free education. (#1, #4, #11, #17) Great idea. Who pays for it? Doctors, internet
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear Local Friammers, ** ** snip Thank you for the report, interesting. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. WTF? Why *not* talk about things of this nature here? We've often done so in the past. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Ah, now your talking! But usually not about apps as far as I recall, more about core tech and being fucked over by The Man. CDMA, GSM, 2G, 3G and more, but appps? Not much but to congratulate Tyler on his success. Nick ** FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Personally I think a open diolague about a broken system at all levels is a Good Thing. It's even better though when people start proposing solutions. Kim Sorvig noted that the US economy is basicly run by gambling-ie investments in Wall Street. I don't have enough game theory or economics to show why that's a bad thing. I can show that as far back as Wall Street has existed it's become a increesingly bad design though. Speeking of the man- with T-Mobile US future somewhat in doubt i've been doing some diging and came across something interesting: http://www.shopstraighttalk.com/ offers for 45USD a plan that includes unlimited data- the downside is that in newmexico they don't offer droid phones (yet). As much as I like the idea of going to verizon- how do they get off on charging 50USD for a REQUIRED unlimited Data package-unless you go through the webstore and get 4g data as a addon package? I point this out because IF my friends start up gets off the ground she wants me on bord in some copacity-but that'd meen moving back the bay. I can't justify paying 95 dollars for cellphone service just because i'd need directions. The other interesting one is: http://www.earthtones.com/ they claim that if a phone isn't offered you can get ahold of them and try to make arangements. Plus they have midling coverage. Here's another interesting question: Why does CDMA from verizon have bad ass coverage compared to T-Mobile that's spoty at best where you need it? (like roads or hotels.) On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net wrote: On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear Local Friammers, snip Thank you for the report, interesting. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. WTF? Why *not* talk about things of this nature here? We've often done so in the past. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Ah, now your talking! But usually not about apps as far as I recall, more about core tech and being fucked over by The Man. CDMA, GSM, 2G, 3G and more, but appps? Not much but to congratulate Tyler on his success. Nick FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Dear Local Friammers, I asked others on the list to inform me about Occupy Wall Street -type activities in Santa Fe, and, since nobody did and since I learned a little more, myself, I thought I would say what I think I know. (1)The Group at the State Capitol building house seemed to represent many (laudable) interests but to have no over- arching message yet or a well-defined local target. Lots of friendly horn beeping and waves and only one negative comment from a guy who seemed to shout at us that we were prawns! Prawns?! we said. Oh PAWNS! But then the light changed and he was gone. (2)The center of the group's activities has been the Bank of America at the corner of Peralta and St. Francis just where St. Francis starts up the hill toward 599 and Tesuque, etc. Some have been camped (with permission) on an empty lot across the street. (3)That permission is running out and the group will meet there meet tomorrow evening to discuss next steps. All interested parties presumably invited. (4)The group's web presence seemed not yet well organized. Perhaps it is getting organized as I speak, but since there are a lot of people on the Friam list with relevant skills, perhaps some of us might want to take notice. (5)I have some experience with Google Sites and I have offered (please, don't laugh), (if nobody better puts up his/her hand), to put together a primitive Google Site/Group for the purpose of posting information, offering a forum, etc. But I have experience only with private Google Sites and have a sense from reading Google Help Forums that public Google Sites are terribly vulnerable to outside interference. Is this true? Do you have advice to give me in this matter. Is Facebook a far better way of achieving these goals. (6)The above information is gathered informally and may all be incorrect. Thank you for your patience. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org http://www.cusf.org/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
Ah Nick, you are a treasure. I have no info: very busy with a professional watershed event and my place in it, so I watch and honk as I drive by but choose not to participate. IF I had info, you would definitely be getting it! Tory Tory Hughes www.toryhughes.com RAM- Terra Nova Milagro Hacienda creativity retreat On Oct 15, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Dear Local Friammers, I asked others on the list to inform me about Occupy Wall Street – type activities in Santa Fe, and, since nobody did and since I learned a little more, myself, I thought I would say what I think I know. (1)The Group at the State Capitol building house seemed to represent many (laudable) interests but to have no over- arching message yet or a well-defined local target. Lots of friendly horn beeping and waves and only one negative comment from a guy who seemed to shout at us that we were “prawns!” “Prawns?!” we said. Oh PAWNS! But then the light changed and he was gone. (2)The center of the group’s activities has been the Bank of America at the corner of Peralta and St. Francis just where St. Francis starts up the hill toward 599 and Tesuque, etc. Some have been camped (with permission) on an empty lot across the street. (3)That permission is running out and the group will meet there meet tomorrow evening to discuss next steps. All interested parties presumably invited. (4)The group’s web presence seemed not yet well organized. Perhaps it is getting organized as I speak, but since there are a lot of people on the Friam list with relevant skills, perhaps some of us might want to take notice. (5)I have some experience with Google Sites and I have offered (please, don’t laugh), (if nobody better puts up his/her hand), to put together a primitive Google Site/Group for the purpose of posting information, offering a forum, etc. But I have experience only with private Google Sites and have a sense from reading Google Help Forums that public Google Sites are terribly vulnerable to outside interference. Is this true? Do you have advice to give me in this matter. Is Facebook a far better way of achieving these goals. (6)The above information is gathered informally and may all be incorrect. Thank you for your patience. I stipulate that this is not the place for a political discussion and that many of you would probably disagree with me vehemently on many matters, so I will leave it at that. As soon as there is a local distribution list or equivalent, there will be no need to discuss such matters in this forum, for which, I assume, many of you will be grateful. Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://www.cusf.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] 99%, occupyWallStreet, Santa Fe, etc.
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear Local Friammers, ** ** snip ** ** Back to the discussion of cellphone apps. And emergence. Let's not forget the deep discussions of emergence. ** ** Nick --Doug FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
