Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 12, 2005, at 8:06 AM, Brian Stewart wrote: Local NetWork Support, nothing to do with apple My laptop can not get a DHCP address, it gets a default 169.X.X.X. I try a second laptop and a second ethernet drop. No DHCP, most likely a problem with the two laptops, two network drops or one DHCP server? Spock There is insufficient data, Captain, to reach a conclusion / spock McCoy I'm a Computer Tech, Jim, not a Mind Reader!/mccoy What is doing the DHCP serving? What is the network infrastructure? What do you mean by Ethernet drop: are you testing on different jacks in a building, ports on a router, or just different cables? Do either of the laptops work in other ethernet networks? there could be any number of reasons: Many DHCP servers require some sort of authentication or registration before they'll pass an address. Cable modems usually do this: they'll only connect to the first ethernet device they see after being reset. Our own network requires that the MAC address of devices be registered before being given an IP address. On another subnet on campus, they got tired of folks moving systems around without telling them, so they've added a twist on the cable modem thing. Once you plug a 'wrong' device into a port, it's locked out to all devices until they unlock it. You could have miscommunication between two auto-sensing devices, this is rare with new equipment, but older 10/100 switches would often get into an After you, Gaston! No, No, After YOU, Alphonse! routine where both ports would try to auto-sense and end up on different speeds. You could have a bad ethernet switch or hub in the mix. You could have a mis-wired ethernet hub or switch in the mix. (A sysadmin on campus was trying to diagnose a similar problem through a rats nest of hubs and switches and found, eventually that the WAN port of one switch was feeding back, through a number of other devices, into a lan port on itself.) You could have two bad laptops, or two bad cables, or two bad ports, but I think it's unlikely. -- Bruce Johnson This is the sig who says 'Ni!' -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
All support agencies SUCK. I am a lot like the earlier poster that walks around with the cup half empty, expecting someone to take it from me. AppleCare == Insurance == Repairs == Cost Apple would rather you buy a new iPod for $300 dollars then replacement the $20 battery. Apple is not the only one guilty of this, any cell phone service provider is prof enough. Replacement Battery == $120 the replacement phone == $100. It costs money to provide an excellent level of support. Not good support, not expected support but excellent support. The entire world market boasts that the customer is #1 but they don't mean it. It's a crappy attempt at winning mark share by using a catch phrase. Why am I so bitter about support? I am a Support person my self and I deal with customers, sales people and other support people daily. I do so well at my job because everyone else does such a poor job. I believe the cause of support issues are TRAINING and PAY. To properly train someone and pay them enough to stay in a department that does nothing but generate COST does not make financial sense. It is better on paper to send all support to a 3rd world country and piss off customers then it is to fix the problem. Why train a person that is going to replace parts and rack up overtime for a customer that is not going to pay any additional money??? This is the short sighted attitude of the the BIG 3 that costs them market share daily. They say customer service is number one. WRONG!!! The share holders are number one, the poor fool buying the product is #5 and customer service doesn't make the top 100 list... Oh! my point before my vent... Local NetWork Support, nothing to do with apple My laptop can not get a DHCP address, it gets a default 169.X.X.X. I try a second laptop and a second ethernet drop. No DHCP, most likely a problem with the two laptops, two network drops or one DHCP server? The tech support person didn't understand why I was assigned a 169.X.X.X address (SHOULD HAVE BEEN HIS FIRST TIP OFF). The tech support person refused to comprehend why I tested a second laptop with no luck (SHOULD HAVE THANKED ME FOR TROUBLE SHOOTING THE PROBLEM). He had me re-install the network driver for my ethernet card, WOW that didn't fix it. He then dispatched a DELL service rep to replace the ethernet card on my laptop... After an hour they send a global e-mail to everyone saying they are experiencing network problems. AN E-MAIL!!! how am I supposted to get that E-MAIL??? osmoses?? The moral to the story If you have a problem, fix it your self!!! No one else cares!!! -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 10:18 , Tobias Strohe wrote: Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. No need to apologize were all on the same road and courteous Find yourself a certified Apple repair service other than Apple. And the next time you are in the market for a computer think twice before buying directly from Apple. Excellent advice, just be sure it's a good one, call them on the phone for repair advice and be a newbie, see how they treat you, most are good in the store with cash in your pocket, see if they have time to make it worth your time to go to the business and check them out in person. I try not to buy until I have have beat the item and the seller as the best option. This goes with most things over a grand. Unless it's A or B I'm not defending Apple's actions here, but trust me, the grass isn't at all greener on the other side of the fence. There's a reaosn people throw away PCs rather than fix them. The only good service I've ever gotten on the PC side is though Gateway, and then though their corporate service only; I've dealt with their consumer stuff a couple of times. Yeeeuch! Yup now all in the same parts boat, true as gold, I have bought new iBooks for all, but I am hanging on to my pismo, it seems it was the last do it all put it in the bag fly all over and keeps on chugging And you ARE one of the few who think the Apple Stores are a disaster in the making. Most of the rest of the world thinks that they were a brilliant marketing move that's paying real dividends for Apple in both bottom line sales and mind share. For the cost and write off of the stores is an excellent idea, excellent advertising, excellent image, and lets people touch the item, a big deal in sales, especially impulse buying. Also sinks the idea Apple is dead, since 1987... They should keep it staffed with smart people or someone who can at an instant get someone on the phone or the computer under the desk to answer the question and admit he is doing so. Honesty. Nothing sells better then honesty, admitting; I am not sure but I can get the information, smooth, easy and truthful. Would also start to establish the top 300 questions. So after that, I am really, really soured on the Apple store. I think Apple needs to regroup and refocus regarding exactly what they want the Apple store to be. Right now it seems like it's a storefront no different than the other other retailers I mentioned, except that it happens to sell only one brand. Nancy Call Apple corporate Gwendlywne Wells, Head of Apple Care World Wide Support. Go right to the top. I will not hesitate to toast an idiot that does not deserve the job, when someone else may be willing to do their best, even though it's not a living wage position. On the other hand, I will go to top when I get excellent help above and beyond the usual. I will spend as much or more time telling a company, this is a good employee, it's probably a keeper and explain in detail how that person is better then the average employee. So I do not bury the company unless the idiocy continues, then that writes them off for me. You must go to the top sometimes demanding and I use the same tone in asking for good reports as I do bad. It gets people really worried as it should. Do not settle for the manager. It's probably their friend. No doubt that was a crummy buy, he wanted the % off the Apple Care. I would have left and gave him zero. With a call to Apple, if they do not have feed back from customers, how do they know? I find the Apple support a little like some kind of military procedure. One must first go through step A, which is usually going through a troubleshooting phase with someone in India to be certain it isn't a silly user error or something correctable via standard software utilities, and at the end of that Apple gives out a number. Yes you must get past the first level of support on the phone, they will do all the tricks and flips and then try to get you to go online for the answers, well I did online. He was very pushy about asking if there was any other help I needed. Yes I need a level 2 support, so someone can tell me why a keychain kept popping up. Level 2 is for those only for Apple Care in a some south east asian accent, Yada Yada and 30 minutes later, after he said we have 2 different lives, I don't know you and you do not know me. Then I had to explain what the keychain did, I was told that was wrong, I asked do you have a Mac, no I got a level 2 tech in 2 minutes my question was answered, it was a refurb iBook and the keychain kept asking for a password I did not have. Was used by previous owner. I thought Apple went through the refurbs and cleaned it up. Reinstalled the software. No said the level 2 tech, the fix the problem and
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On 9 Oct 2005, at 4:05 PM, david wrote: BTW, am I the only one who thinks that the whole Apple Store thing is turning into a disaster in the making? When my local Apple store opened the 'genius' truly was incredibly knowledgeable. The last time I went I overheard the 'genius' say things I'd expect to hear from a BestBuy sales-idiot. I wouldn't rate it disaster, but improvements could be made. The stores are made to sell things, which they do well. Service is a sideline and not well done. Stores also feed the Apple cult idea. It's the place to be, to hang around with the other Appleheads, to feel special, etc. The one near me is always full of teenagers. They are made to feel at home there more than in some of the general retailers. As to the service aspect, there is plenty of room for improvement. And, yes, they are pissing people off. Computer users get excited when computers can do something half a nanosecond faster, but they have to wait at least two hours to get service at an Apple store. That's stupid. Apple advertises that one can make an appointment in advance; they neglect to mention that's an extra hundred bucks. It's insulting to deal with people whose job title is genius but who give the word genius a bad name. Some don't have common sense or service sense. Seems to me a better name would be Service Provider. That might give them a better orientation toward customer service. In my neighborhood an independent Apple retailer is about a block away from an Apple store. The service manager at the independent is a bit gruff, but at least he usually knows what he's doing. The independent is a good shop, and the Apple store makes them look even better. Peter -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
Unbelievable. I've been in retail off and on over the years, and that isn't something that I could ever see being condoned. Do I smell a sabateur? Sadly, *nothing* will change without a bit of work. Call the manager and complain (I'll assume the jerk's name is on your receipt/invoice). Follow-up with a letter, then email Head Office, referencing both phone call and letter. This email would seem to cover most all of what you want to say... Good luck. On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Nancy Lawrence wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Apple store. When the one near me first opened, it was great. As was said earlier, the geniuses really did seem to be geniuses. And they took a look at my Pismo (!) after what I came to find out was a kernel panic, recommended DiskWarrior, and I was up and running that very day, all for free (yeah, I bought the DiskWarrior but it's not like they charged me for looking at my way-out-of-warranty laptop). However, fast forward two years. I finally convinced my SO to switch. We go to buy a bright shiny new Powerbook, i.e., to drop $1,500-$1,700. I have never been treated so rudely. The salesperson tried to upsell Applecare (which we planned to buy, but not right then, thank you). I mentioned that since it was available throughout the time of the original warranty we were going to hold off because this was a big purchase for us. He then made this face like, Well, if you're willing to risk it, I hope nothing bad happens, as if somehow we were at some additional risk by not purchasing Applecare at the time of purchase. Please. But the worst thing was what happened next. It took him a really long time to get the Powerbook from the back and when he finally arrived, I asked if the Airport extreme card was there. (I know they're stock, but I had a friend who had gotten home and discovered that it wasn't there). He looked at me like he hated me, raised the box up to my face, tapped his finger on the side where the spec labels are, and glared at me. Didn't say a word, didn't say Yes, of course, Yes, they're stock, Yes, if there's any problem you can bring it back, Yes, would you like me to open it and double-check?, nothing. Just tapped the box about 6 inches from my face. I have never been treated like that before, not at BestBuy, not at CompUSA, not at Circuit City, hell, not even at Wal-Mart. And *especially* not when I was spending well over a grand. I mean, it's not like I was buying a USB hub and asked if the adapter was really there. So after that, I am really, really soured on the Apple store. I think Apple needs to regroup and refocus regarding exactly what they want the Apple store to be. Right now it seems like it's a storefront no different than the other retailers I mentioned, except that it happens to sell only one brand. Nancy On Oct 9, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:05 PM, david wrote: work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. What you require is a service my boss offers. When a customer's drive is damaged/dead, if desired, we'll attempt to transfer data or send the drive to a data-recovery service if we can't access it. That's only if your local reseller isn't a bunch of arrogant elitist pinheads who think that customer service is when they've whacked all the tennis balls at our head, and its time for us to throw them back for another go-round. IMO, from my vantage point as a consumer, Apple gave the resellers nearly 20 years to get the retail stuff right, then gave up and created the Apple Stores out of self defense. And you ARE one of the few who think the Apple Stores are a disaster in the making. Most of the rest of the world thinks that they were a brilliant marketing move that's paying real dividends for Apple in both bottom line sales and mind share. I have three influential faculty members who are switchers because of visits to the Apple store. (One is the Dean of the college) Also, don't forget, the Apple store is geared mainly to supporting new sales and systems. How many years has it been since Apple shipped a G4 tower that could accept an internal Zip (don't forget, neither the Quicksilver or the MDD models could take an internal Zip. The last one that could was the Digital Audio) -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to:
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 3:10 PM, Nancy Lawrence wrote: So after that, I am really, really soured on the Apple store. I think Apple needs to regroup and refocus regarding exactly what they want the Apple store to be. Right now it seems like it's a storefront no different than the other retailers I mentioned, except that it happens to sell only one brand. What you NEED to do is tell this person's manager that they were rude to you. Simply going off pissed accomplishes nothing. Apple doesn't KNOW it needs to regroup and refocus unless there are consumer complaints. -- Bruce Johnson This is the sig who says 'Ni!' -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 4:52 PM, david wrote: My, we have a lot of pent up anger, don't we? Perhaps you need to find a few dead monitors and smash them? I did not descend to ad hominem attacks to defend my opinion, no need for you to, either. I very carefully stated that this was my opinion. I can take my attitude anywhere I damn well please. -- Bruce Johnson This is the sig who says 'Ni!' -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. On my annual vacation this year my Powerbook G4 died (with some 500 not-yet-backed-up photos on it). Here is my story to this point and my request for help: 1. Powerbook died and won't go beyond a grey backlit screen on startup 2. took it to Gravis in Cologne, Germany (great place!, competent, helpful 'Apple Service Provider' like we used to have here). They put in a system disk and confirmed my suspicion that the Hard Drive has died (it had been getting progressively slower on startup). 3. After return home this week I went to the local Apple Store and they informed me I needed to get an appointment to speak to a genius and that the genius bar was closed for the day (this was Friday night). 4. I called 1-800-APL-CARE on Saturday morning (one: it hung up on me after about 5 mins of the 8 mins announced (max) wait time; two: after 15 minutes waittime of 10 mins announced (max) I got Eric, who requested I insert a system disk and wouldn't believe the description of above No. 2.) - I could not find my system disk other than an old X.1 which he deemed not an option since I was last running X.3.9 ... After my request was denied to connect me to a repair dispatch to determine whether there is a way to obtain the damaged Hard Drive for Data recovery, I gave up and decided to go back to the Apple Store. 5. Went to the Apple Store on Saturday AM, signed up for an appointment with a genius, got a pager (this alone took 10 to 15 minutes, although the genius bar was not apparently busy) - the appointment was showing 11:30 (about 1 hour after my arrival), but I got buzzed at 11:10 (most people are probably not patient enough to wait too long and I was to find out immediately why: 6. The genius I spoke with mentioned that my only option for data recovery would be to pay them 150 USD to remove and replace the damaged drive after a week where I could have it for data recovery and then send it in to Apple for replacement. Asked whether they could not put a new drive in at that point he informed me that it needed to be an Apple certified part and they could not obtain that. This is where the story ends (for now). Some additional information: 12 PB G4 (bought from Apple refurb), 1 Ghz, 768 MB RAM, Superdrive, Airport Extreme, unit has been in my possession for about 1.5 years, I do have Applecare 3 year extension Some general venting: If Apple wants to get out of their low market share they need to improve their service to what it used to be. Don't hire arrogant, half-wits as geniusses, and phone line support (the 'genius' actually told me he had gotten yelled at over his comments before - not that it helped, and I couldn't waste more time or energy with him ;-). Don't design otherwise beautiful hardware with components that fail within 2 years (while I was at the 'genius' bar there were 2 other people with powerbook hard drive failure experience (and there were not very many people to begin with). If I want this kind of lack of performance I can buy a Dell or another Sony (office experience with Sony support on Vaio laptops is about on-par with current Apple). Will we ever get another Powerbook G3 Kanga quality from Apple again? (my 1998 one is still going strong - now has a self-installed 20 Gig HD, although I may need to solder the power connector for a short soon). Any help, comments, different opinions/experiences, etc. are very welcome, tobias -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Tobias Strohe wrote: Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. On my annual vacation this year my Powerbook G4 died (with some 500 not-yet-backed-up photos on it). Here is my story to this point and my request for help: 1. Powerbook died and won't go beyond a grey backlit screen on startup Some additional information: 12 PB G4 (bought from Apple refurb), 1 Ghz, 768 MB RAM, Superdrive, Airport Extreme, unit has been in my possession for about 1.5 years, I do have Applecare 3 year extension Any help, comments, different opinions/experiences, etc. are very welcome, tobias If you have a second machine with firewire boot the PowerBook in Firewire mode (hold T key). This will allow you to connect to another machine via firewire cable. The powerbook will show up on the other machine as a firewire hard drive. Hopefully you will be able to transfer your important files. You could also try fixing the drive using TechTool Pro, DiskWarrior or Apple's Disk utility from the second machine while the two are connected. John -- My dog is very obedient, he does what he is bid. A sign said 'wet paint', and that's just what he did. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
That sounds like what happened to my G5 iMac. My solution was just to pull the hard drive and anything else I could salvage and buy a new computer. I sold the dead iMac for somebody who could have the time and patience to get it repairedbecause I'm not that person. Tim On Oct 9, 2005, at 2:30 PM, John McGibney wrote: On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Tobias Strohe wrote: Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. On my annual vacation this year my Powerbook G4 died (with some 500 not-yet-backed-up photos on it). Here is my story to this point and my request for help: 1. Powerbook died and won't go beyond a grey backlit screen on startup Some additional information: 12 PB G4 (bought from Apple refurb), 1 Ghz, 768 MB RAM, Superdrive, Airport Extreme, unit has been in my possession for about 1.5 years, I do have Applecare 3 year extension Any help, comments, different opinions/experiences, etc. are very welcome, tobias If you have a second machine with firewire boot the PowerBook in Firewire mode (hold T key). This will allow you to connect to another machine via firewire cable. The powerbook will show up on the other machine as a firewire hard drive. Hopefully you will be able to transfer your important files. You could also try fixing the drive using TechTool Pro, DiskWarrior or Apple's Disk utility from the second machine while the two are connected. John -- My dog is very obedient, he does what he is bid. A sign said 'wet paint', and that's just what he did. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- Exterminate all rational though. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
I work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. What you require is a service my boss offers. When a customer's drive is damaged/dead, if desired, we'll attempt to transfer data or send the drive to a data-recovery service if we can't access it. Find yourself a certified Apple repair service other than Apple. And the next time you are in the market for a computer think twice before buying directly from Apple. BTW, am I the only one who thinks that the whole Apple Store thing is turning into a disaster in the making? When my local Apple store opened the 'genius' truly was incredibly knowledgeable. The last time I went I overheard the 'genius' say things I'd expect to hear from a BestBuy sales-idiot. He was completely clueless about the G3 iBook repair extension and didn't know the G4 tower could accommodate an internal zip drive. david On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Tobias Strohe wrote: Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. On my annual vacation this year my Powerbook G4 died (with some 500 not-yet-backed-up photos on it). Here is my story to this point and my request for help: 1. Powerbook died and won't go beyond a grey backlit screen on startup 2. took it to Gravis in Cologne, Germany (great place!, competent, helpful 'Apple Service Provider' like we used to have here). They put in a system disk and confirmed my suspicion that the Hard Drive has died (it had been getting progressively slower on startup). 3. After return home this week I went to the local Apple Store and they informed me I needed to get an appointment to speak to a genius and that the genius bar was closed for the day (this was Friday night). 4. I called 1-800-APL-CARE on Saturday morning (one: it hung up on me after about 5 mins of the 8 mins announced (max) wait time; two: after 15 minutes waittime of 10 mins announced (max) I got Eric, who requested I insert a system disk and wouldn't believe the description of above No. 2.) - I could not find my system disk other than an old X.1 which he deemed not an option since I was last running X.3.9 ... After my request was denied to connect me to a repair dispatch to determine whether there is a way to obtain the damaged Hard Drive for Data recovery, I gave up and decided to go back to the Apple Store. 5. Went to the Apple Store on Saturday AM, signed up for an appointment with a genius, got a pager (this alone took 10 to 15 minutes, although the genius bar was not apparently busy) - the appointment was showing 11:30 (about 1 hour after my arrival), but I got buzzed at 11:10 (most people are probably not patient enough to wait too long and I was to find out immediately why: 6. The genius I spoke with mentioned that my only option for data recovery would be to pay them 150 USD to remove and replace the damaged drive after a week where I could have it for data recovery and then send it in to Apple for replacement. Asked whether they could not put a new drive in at that point he informed me that it needed to be an Apple certified part and they could not obtain that. This is where the story ends (for now). Some additional information: 12 PB G4 (bought from Apple refurb), 1 Ghz, 768 MB RAM, Superdrive, Airport Extreme, unit has been in my possession for about 1.5 years, I do have Applecare 3 year extension Some general venting: If Apple wants to get out of their low market share they need to improve their service to what it used to be. Don't hire arrogant, half-wits as geniusses, and phone line support (the 'genius' actually told me he had gotten yelled at over his comments before - not that it helped, and I couldn't waste more time or energy with him ;-). Don't design otherwise beautiful hardware with components that fail within 2 years (while I was at the 'genius' bar there were 2 other people with powerbook hard drive failure experience (and there were not very many people to begin with). If I want this kind of lack of performance I can buy a Dell or another Sony (office experience with Sony support on Vaio laptops is about on-par with current Apple). Will we ever get another Powerbook G3 Kanga quality from Apple again? (my 1998 one is still going strong - now has a self-installed 20 Gig HD, although I may need to solder the power connector for a short soon). Any help, comments, different opinions/experiences, etc. are very welcome, tobias -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users,
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Tobias Strohe wrote: Some general venting: If Apple wants to get out of their low market share they need to improve their service to what it used to be. Don't hire arrogant, half-wits as geniusses, I'm guessing you haven't dealt with any other computer company's support lately. With Dell you get the same nonsense, only it's in a Bangalore accent. Called in a system with an obviously broken HDD. (making clunking noises, system boots up and says No HD Found) The tech kept trying to tell me to re-install Windows first. I'm not defending Apple's actions here, but trust me, the grass isn't at all greener on the other side of the fence. There's a reaosn people throw away PCs rather than fix them. The only good service I've ever gotten on the PC side is though Gateway, and then though their corporate service only; I've dealt with their consumer stuff a couple of times. Yeeeuch! -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:05 PM, david wrote: work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. What you require is a service my boss offers. When a customer's drive is damaged/dead, if desired, we'll attempt to transfer data or send the drive to a data-recovery service if we can't access it. That's only if your local reseller isn't a bunch of arrogant elitist pinheads who think that customer service is when they've whacked all the tennis balls at our head, and its time for us to throw them back for another go-round. IMO, from my vantage point as a consumer, Apple gave the resellers nearly 20 years to get the retail stuff right, then gave up and created the Apple Stores out of self defense. And you ARE one of the few who think the Apple Stores are a disaster in the making. Most of the rest of the world thinks that they were a brilliant marketing move that's paying real dividends for Apple in both bottom line sales and mind share. I have three influential faculty members who are switchers because of visits to the Apple store. (One is the Dean of the college) Also, don't forget, the Apple store is geared mainly to supporting new sales and systems. How many years has it been since Apple shipped a G4 tower that could accept an internal Zip (don't forget, neither the Quicksilver or the MDD models could take an internal Zip. The last one that could was the Digital Audio) -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
I have mixed feelings about the Apple store. When the one near me first opened, it was great. As was said earlier, the geniuses really did seem to be geniuses. And they took a look at my Pismo (!) after what I came to find out was a kernel panic, recommended DiskWarrior, and I was up and running that very day, all for free (yeah, I bought the DiskWarrior but it's not like they charged me for looking at my way-out-of-warranty laptop). However, fast forward two years. I finally convinced my SO to switch. We go to buy a bright shiny new Powerbook, i.e., to drop $1,500-$1,700. I have never been treated so rudely. The salesperson tried to upsell Applecare (which we planned to buy, but not right then, thank you). I mentioned that since it was available throughout the time of the original warranty we were going to hold off because this was a big purchase for us. He then made this face like, Well, if you're willing to risk it, I hope nothing bad happens, as if somehow we were at some additional risk by not purchasing Applecare at the time of purchase. Please. But the worst thing was what happened next. It took him a really long time to get the Powerbook from the back and when he finally arrived, I asked if the Airport extreme card was there. (I know they're stock, but I had a friend who had gotten home and discovered that it wasn't there). He looked at me like he hated me, raised the box up to my face, tapped his finger on the side where the spec labels are, and glared at me. Didn't say a word, didn't say Yes, of course, Yes, they're stock, Yes, if there's any problem you can bring it back, Yes, would you like me to open it and double-check?, nothing. Just tapped the box about 6 inches from my face. I have never been treated like that before, not at BestBuy, not at CompUSA, not at Circuit City, hell, not even at Wal-Mart. And *especially* not when I was spending well over a grand. I mean, it's not like I was buying a USB hub and asked if the adapter was really there. So after that, I am really, really soured on the Apple store. I think Apple needs to regroup and refocus regarding exactly what they want the Apple store to be. Right now it seems like it's a storefront no different than the other retailers I mentioned, except that it happens to sell only one brand. Nancy On Oct 9, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:05 PM, david wrote: work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. What you require is a service my boss offers. When a customer's drive is damaged/dead, if desired, we'll attempt to transfer data or send the drive to a data-recovery service if we can't access it. That's only if your local reseller isn't a bunch of arrogant elitist pinheads who think that customer service is when they've whacked all the tennis balls at our head, and its time for us to throw them back for another go-round. IMO, from my vantage point as a consumer, Apple gave the resellers nearly 20 years to get the retail stuff right, then gave up and created the Apple Stores out of self defense. And you ARE one of the few who think the Apple Stores are a disaster in the making. Most of the rest of the world thinks that they were a brilliant marketing move that's paying real dividends for Apple in both bottom line sales and mind share. I have three influential faculty members who are switchers because of visits to the Apple store. (One is the Dean of the college) Also, don't forget, the Apple store is geared mainly to supporting new sales and systems. How many years has it been since Apple shipped a G4 tower that could accept an internal Zip (don't forget, neither the Quicksilver or the MDD models could take an internal Zip. The last one that could was the Digital Audio) -- Bruce Johnson No matter where you go, there you are, B. Banzai -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
Sorry you've had a bad run at the Apple world, both from weak hardware and blundering support. My own experience with the genius bar and warranty service has been more positive but I'm in Seattle and I had a simpler problem. I find the Apple support a little like some kind of military procedure. One must first go through step A, which is usually going through a troubleshooting phase with someone in India to be certain it isn't a silly user error or something correctable via standard software utilities, and at the end of that Apple gives out a number. The Indian guy, or whatever, logs this number and the troubleshooting steps he went through so that the next guy in the process doesn't need to repeat it all. In the end there is often some kind of warranty replacement, which can involve being deprived of your machine for a week or two, but rarely any extensive data retrieval or tedious hunt for cheaper ways to fix things or find out why they went bad. John was right in suggesting the firewire boot as a possible way to get some data back. Disk Warrior is also very handy there. But actual data recovery, which is the kind of thing they do in clean rooms with drives that have gone to the bottom of the Holiday Inn swimming pool, that's an expensive proposition. It usually involves opening the drive itself and reading each sector and trying to reassemble the data into files that can be read. Expect to pay as much as your iBook cost for this. I rather like taking stuff apart, but that's not everyone's cup of tea. So I guess I don't have as many problems with Apple. I also kind of expect life to toss a turd in my general direction, deprive me of use of something or rob me regularly, so I'm not floored when I get a flat tire or my iPod dies. It's a philosophical position. Life offers very few guarantees, so when any company agrees to fix it's stuff I'm pleasantly surprised. Hope that firewire boot helps somewhat. JS On Oct 9, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Tobias Strohe wrote: Dear Listas/essas, I have been lurking mostly, but recent events warrant some verbage. I apologize right away, if (when) this gets lengthy. On my annual vacation this year my Powerbook G4 died (with some 500 not-yet-backed-up photos on it). Here is my story to this point and my request for help: 1. Powerbook died and won't go beyond a grey backlit screen on startup 2. took it to Gravis in Cologne, Germany (great place!, competent, helpful 'Apple Service Provider' like we used to have here). They put in a system disk and confirmed my suspicion that the Hard Drive has died (it had been getting progressively slower on startup). 3. After return home this week I went to the local Apple Store and they informed me I needed to get an appointment to speak to a genius and that the genius bar was closed for the day (this was Friday night). 4. I called 1-800-APL-CARE on Saturday morning (one: it hung up on me after about 5 mins of the 8 mins announced (max) wait time; two: after 15 minutes waittime of 10 mins announced (max) I got Eric, who requested I insert a system disk and wouldn't believe the description of above No. 2.) - I could not find my system disk other than an old X.1 which he deemed not an option since I was last running X.3.9 ... After my request was denied to connect me to a repair dispatch to determine whether there is a way to obtain the damaged Hard Drive for Data recovery, I gave up and decided to go back to the Apple Store. 5. Went to the Apple Store on Saturday AM, signed up for an appointment with a genius, got a pager (this alone took 10 to 15 minutes, although the genius bar was not apparently busy) - the appointment was showing 11:30 (about 1 hour after my arrival), but I got buzzed at 11:10 (most people are probably not patient enough to wait too long and I was to find out immediately why: 6. The genius I spoke with mentioned that my only option for data recovery would be to pay them 150 USD to remove and replace the damaged drive after a week where I could have it for data recovery and then send it in to Apple for replacement. Asked whether they could not put a new drive in at that point he informed me that it needed to be an Apple certified part and they could not obtain that. This is where the story ends (for now). Some additional information: 12 PB G4 (bought from Apple refurb), 1 Ghz, 768 MB RAM, Superdrive, Airport Extreme, unit has been in my possession for about 1.5 years, I do have Applecare 3 year extension Some general venting: If Apple wants to get out of their low market share they need to improve their service to what it used to be. Don't hire arrogant, half-wits as geniusses, and phone line support (the 'genius' actually told me he had gotten yelled at over his comments before - not that it helped, and I couldn't waste more time or energy with him ;-). Don't design otherwise beautiful hardware with components that fail within 2
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:05 PM, david wrote: work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. What you require is a service my boss offers. When a customer's drive is damaged/dead, if desired, we'll attempt to transfer data or send the drive to a data-recovery service if we can't access it. That's only if your local reseller isn't a bunch of arrogant elitist pinheads who think that customer service is when they've whacked all the tennis balls at our head, and its time for us to throw them back for another go-round. My, we have a lot of pent up anger, don't we? Perhaps you need to find a few dead monitors and smash them? IMO, from my vantage point as a consumer, Apple gave the resellers nearly 20 years to get the retail stuff right, then gave up and created the Apple Stores out of self defense. Oh, Apple Corp made no mistakes while the local resellers played silly buggers? I don't think so. Oh, I know there were some bad stores, there always will be. But the three major resellers in my area are quite good. And you ARE one of the few who think the Apple Stores are a disaster in the making. Most of the rest of the world thinks that they were a brilliant marketing move that's paying real dividends for Apple in both bottom line sales and mind share. They certainly have done a good job of attracting purchasers - many of them from the local resellers. When I sell a Mac to a customer the customer registers that computer - now Apple knows that person is an Apple customer. My customer which Apple is now free to poach. In the last two years we lost several large clients to Apple direct - because Apple is able to undercut us. And don't tell me our prices are too high. Apple sold product to those clients for LESS than we bought it from Apple. I have three influential faculty members who are switchers because of visits to the Apple store. (One is the Dean of the college) Also, don't forget, the Apple store is geared mainly to supporting new sales and systems. How many years has it been since Apple shipped a G4 tower that could accept an internal Zip (don't forget, neither the Quicksilver or the MDD models could take an internal Zip. The last one that could was the Digital Audio) Bruce - if you knew anything about the Apple Genius you'd know he is supposed to be familiar with current and past product. Spend some time in a store and you'll find plenty of G4 computers being used and upgraded. Next time, try leaving your attitude at the door, huh? -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
At 04:05 PM -0400 10/09/2005, david wrote: I work part-time for an Apple reseller and your experience is why I'll continue to strongly suggest people buy their products from an independent reseller rather than directly from Apple. /me agrees wholeheartedly Find yourself a certified Apple repair service other than Apple. And the next time you are in the market for a computer think twice before buying directly from Apple. There's just no substitute for having a good relationship with a local repair shop. Even better if it's an understanding one - that doesn't have coniptions because you saved $100+ by buying from outpost.com instead of him. BTW, am I the only one who thinks that the whole Apple Store thing is turning into a disaster in the making? Disaster? I donno. I think they fill a nitch. There's a lot of raff out there that needs the pretty all-Apple storefront to give them that warm'n'fuzzy feeling. Personally, I have yet to get even barely acceptable service from an Apple Store. Ditto for calling Apple Support. Nor do I care to see my wallet bleed from their higher-than-CompUSA prices. So I don't recommend them to anyone, ever. sigh. When my housemate's Lombard died, she went to our newly opened Apple Store to take a look at the new PBs. When she came back home, she asked for a Dell catalog -- she was that discouraged. It was only a lot of conversation and a trip to my fav reseller that turned her around. Except for the BSODs, she's quite happy with her 1.5-GHz 15 PB. When my local Apple store opened the 'genius' truly was incredibly knowledgeable. When my local Apple store opened their music was so loud you couldn't hear anything the 'geuius' was blithering. FWIW, - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
Re: 12 Powerbook G4: an AppleCare and AppleStore assesment
On Oct 9, 2005, at 7:52 PM, david wrote: Bruce - if you knew anything about the Apple Genius you'd know he is supposed to be familiar with current and past product. Spend some time in a store and you'll find plenty of G4 computers being used and upgraded. Next time, try leaving your attitude at the door, huh? Hi, this is Pot, is Kettle home? -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:G-Books@mail.maclaunch.com To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- iPod Accessories for Less at 1-800-iPOD.COM Fast Delivery, Low Price, Good Deal www.1800ipod.com ---
