Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[ah...clem]

On Mar 22, 11:57 am, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:

> Oh puleeeze. You're claiming a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 on a 333 mHz bus can compare 
> to a Mac Pro (which at a MINIMUM has 2 2.66Ghz dual core Xeons with 667 Mhz 
> memory bus) with a few COMPILER TWEAKS??? (which tweaks, BTW, Apple's dev 
> tools pretty much apply automatically when you select PPC as a compile target)
>

i never claimed any such thing!  re-read the post, bruce.  if you want
to "win" the discussion so desperately that you will resort to putting
words in my mouth, then you only underscore the weakness of your own
position.  what i said was that PPC versus intel of comparable clock
speeds was no contest.  given software well written for each, the PPC
was damned near twice as fast as the intel on real world
computationally intensive tasks.

it used to give me great pleasure to point to execution times on my 2
GHz G5 versus their 2.7 GHz pentium win/tel boxes, and shut the mouths
of the "apples are for kids" pc diehards.  and the reason is that the
PPC architecture is inherently superior to the intel architecture.
period.  the preposterous statement above came from your fevered
imagination.  the same imagination that dreamed up a dual 1.25 G4 with
a 333 MHz bus.  the only dual 1.25 i know of was the MDD/FW800 with a
166 MHz bus.

nowadays, my 3.33 GHz intel iMac running snow leopard is barely as
fast as their 3.33 GHz i7 running winbloze 7.  given the difference in
cost, it no longer makes much sense to throw money in steve jobs
coffers just so i can hang on to the familiar OSX interface.  since
the computer works for weeks without any need for user interface, the
OS is pretty irrelevant.  so i stand by my premise, PPC with Altivec
was/is vastly superior to intel crap.

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Re: What to lose

[Paxton]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Wayne Stewart  wrote:
> I have a lot of Apple IIs, IIIs and Macs and I really need to
> downsize. Some input into what to get rid of would help. Here’s the
> Macs I have one or more of
>
> Macs: 128k, 512k, 512ke, Plus, SE, SE/30, Classic, Color Classic,
> Mac II, IIfx, LC, IIci, Quadras 700, 800, 840AV, 900,
> PM6100, 6150, 8100, 6360, 6500, 7300, 8500, 9150, 9500, 8600, 9600
> Beige G3 DT, MT & Server, AIO, B&W G3, Tray loading iMac, Slot loading
> iMac
> G4 Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Ethernet, Cube, DA, Quicksilver, MDD
> Mac Portable
> Powerbooks: 100,140,145,145B, 160,170,180,190, 520C, 5300,Wallstreet,
> MacBook Pro
>
> The Apple IIs and IIIs I’m unwilling to lose though there are a lot of
> them. I’m thinking to get it down to one of each model except I’d like
> to keep the second G3 AIO, Mac Portables and the extra MDDs. Extra
> Cubes don’t count as they’re serving as book ends and all the
> Powerbooks are in my closet.
> The SE, Classic, Mac Plus and IIci are in the original boxes
> I’m thinking that if I have a 8600 & 9600 then I could dispense with
> the 8500, 9500 and maybe 7300
> Having the Beige G3 tower, then I could dispense with the desktop.
> Probably no good reason to have a 6360 if I have a 6500 though there
> isn’t a real speed difference if it’s running a G3 card
>
> Suggestions?


when I was sorting equipment I used to save the latest, greatest
versions of computers. It turned out, in retrospect, that the very
first models have the most value and are the most collectible.

Save the IIIs and anything connected with them, they are pretty rare.
Apple][ s are the most valuable, other than the apple 1.

The Mac 128 is quite the collectible as are the Mac IIs & fx and are
worth saving.

If you are having trouble deciding go with the earlier model.

Paxton
Astoria, Oregon
-- 
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Jonas Ulrich]

Yes I may have used the wrong term, what i meant by "ripping" a DVD, is
making it so I can play it as an MP4 file in iTunes/QuickTime/VLC etc.

I always do a little research, to find an already built PC that is
compatible with Leopard. However, the computer I have now, I ended up with
it for free, and it turned out to be completely supported by Leopard!

-Jonas

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Re: What to lose

[Vic]

On Mar 22, 12:38 pm, Wayne Stewart  wrote:
> I have a lot of Apple IIs, IIIs and Macs and I really need to
> downsize. Some input into what to get rid of would help. Here’s the
> Macs I have one or more of
>
> Macs: 128k, 512k, 512ke, Plus, SE, SE/30, Classic, Color Classic,
> Mac II, IIfx, LC, IIci, Quadras 700, 800, 840AV, 900,
> PM6100, 6150, 8100, 6360, 6500, 7300, 8500, 9150, 9500, 8600, 9600
> Beige G3 DT, MT & Server, AIO, B&W G3, Tray loading iMac, Slot loading
> iMac
> G4 Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Ethernet, Cube, DA, Quicksilver, MDD
> Mac Portable
> Powerbooks: 100,140,145,145B, 160,170,180,190, 520C, 5300,Wallstreet,
> MacBook Pro
>
> The Apple IIs and IIIs I’m unwilling to lose though there are a lot of
> them. I’m thinking to get it down to one of each model except I’d like
> to keep the second G3 AIO, Mac Portables and the extra MDDs. Extra
> Cubes don’t count as they’re serving as book ends and all the
> Powerbooks are in my closet.
> The SE, Classic, Mac Plus and IIci are in the original boxes
> I’m thinking that if I have a 8600 & 9600 then I could dispense with
> the 8500, 9500 and maybe 7300
> Having the Beige G3 tower, then I could dispense with the desktop.
> Probably no good reason to have a 6360 if I have a 6500 though there
> isn’t a real speed difference if it’s running a G3 card
>
> Suggestions?
I'd take the MacBook Pro, if that would help :)
V Mabus

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Chance Reecher]

My experience has been the inverse of yours.

My iBook G3's graphics chip went out (yes, it's a know flaw, but 
regardless, the system failed) and the L3 cache on my 1.42GHz MDD G4 
failed, causing instability and requiring a replacement CPU card. The 
iMac G4 I gave to my sister died too, it gets partway through the boot 
process and freezes with an awful sound coming from the speakers until I 
pull the power cord.


On the other hand, I have never had a single problem with my MacBook 
Pro, which is almost 4 and half years old now. I also used an early 
Intel Mini as my main system for 2 years without issue, and it continues 
to serve me as a (no pun intended) server.


I do admit that I have owned PPC machines that never gave me issues, 
namely G4 'Books (an iBook that I sold a year ago and a 12" AlBook,) but 
most of my PPC machines have given me issues.


As with every post I make, just my .02.

Chance

On 3/22/11 9:31 PM, Eric Volker wrote:
Let me echo this. All of the PPC Macs I've had/used have been rock 
solid (except for the one UPS dropped), though I've not had a PPC 
laptop. My experience with Intel Macs has been decidedly mixed. My 
first Intel Mac was a 1st (or maybe 2nd) generation 15" Macbook Pro. 
No less than four trips to the Apple Store later (thankfully I bought 
Applecare) they finally got the overheating and GPU artifacts under 
control. My Aluminum iMac has been somewhat better, but still 
overheats unless I crank the fans to nearly full blast. The only 
trouble free Intel Mac I've had has been a Mac mini that was rock 
solid for the two and a half years I owned it.


Lately I've been hearing rumors that recent Macbook Pros overheat, 
perhaps caused by overzealous use of thermal paste. Anyone heard 
similar? If true, it seems that Apple is slow on the uptake when it 
comes to cooling.


Eric



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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Eric Volker]

On 3/22/2011 1:52 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote:
I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality 
rip) using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on 
a 2.8GHZ P4 Hackintosh in one day.
I will say that I have seen A LOT more hardware problems with the 
newer Macs, as oposed to the rock solid G4 towers.

-Jonas


Let me echo this. All of the PPC Macs I've had/used have been rock solid 
(except for the one UPS dropped), though I've not had a PPC laptop. My 
experience with Intel Macs has been decidedly mixed. My first Intel Mac 
was a 1st (or maybe 2nd) generation 15" Macbook Pro. No less than four 
trips to the Apple Store later (thankfully I bought Applecare) they 
finally got the overheating and GPU artifacts under control. My Aluminum 
iMac has been somewhat better, but still overheats unless I crank the 
fans to nearly full blast. The only trouble free Intel Mac I've had has 
been a Mac mini that was rock solid for the two and a half years I owned it.


Lately I've been hearing rumors that recent Macbook Pros overheat, 
perhaps caused by overzealous use of thermal paste. Anyone heard 
similar? If true, it seems that Apple is slow on the uptake when it 
comes to cooling.


Eric

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Mar 22, 7:42 pm, Dan  wrote:
> At 12:24 PM -0700 3/22/2011, JoeTaxpayer wrote:
>
> >On Mar 22, 2:52 pm, Jonas Ulrich  wrote:
> >>  I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality 
> >> rip)
> >>  using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on a 2.8GHZ
> >>  P4 Hackintosh in one day.
>
> >Jonas, when you say "rip" do you mean encode? My G4s rip (copy the
> >DVD) in under 30 minutes. Ripping isn't their issue. It's encoding to
> >burn, or to view on iPad/TiVo.
>
> Um, no, not encoding.  Transcoding.

Got it - I imagine Jonas' issue was the transcoding, then. Thanks.

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Dan]

At 12:24 PM -0700 3/22/2011, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

On Mar 22, 2:52 pm, Jonas Ulrich  wrote:

 I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality rip)
 using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on a 2.8GHZ
 P4 Hackintosh in one day.


Jonas, when you say "rip" do you mean encode? My G4s rip (copy the
DVD) in under 30 minutes. Ripping isn't their issue. It's encoding to
burn, or to view on iPad/TiVo.


Um, no, not encoding.  Transcoding.

Rip == a raw read off the DVD.  You end up with a video-ts folder 
containing the original MPEG-2 video and MPEG-1 Layer 2 (not mp3!) 
audio tracks.  Depending on the speed of said DVD drive, this should 
take 15 mins to an hour, maybe.


Transcode == Decode both streams of ripped data then re-encode them 
into some other form.


And it should be noted that if it took a full day to transcode 4 GB 
of MPEG-2 data into *anything* on a 2.8 GHz PowerPC G4 machine then 
you were hitting ffmpeg with some really screwed up options.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: What to lose

[Baldassare Guzzo]

I'd love to have the IIci?

Baldassare Guzzo
guz...@gmail.com

The Big Bang theory may be true...
but it was God who made the bang



On Mar 22, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Wayne Stewart wrote:


I have a lot of Apple IIs, IIIs and Macs and I really need to
downsize. Some input into what to get rid of would help. Here’s the
Macs I have one or more of

Macs: 128k, 512k, 512ke, Plus, SE, SE/30, Classic, Color Classic,
Mac II, IIfx, LC, IIci, Quadras 700, 800, 840AV, 900,
PM6100, 6150, 8100, 6360, 6500, 7300, 8500, 9150, 9500, 8600, 9600
Beige G3 DT, MT & Server, AIO, B&W G3, Tray loading iMac, Slot loading
iMac
G4 Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Ethernet, Cube, DA, Quicksilver, MDD
Mac Portable
Powerbooks: 100,140,145,145B, 160,170,180,190, 520C, 5300,Wallstreet,
MacBook Pro

The Apple IIs and IIIs I’m unwilling to lose though there are a lot of
them. I’m thinking to get it down to one of each model except I’d like
to keep the second G3 AIO, Mac Portables and the extra MDDs. Extra
Cubes don’t count as they’re serving as book ends and all the
Powerbooks are in my closet.
The SE, Classic, Mac Plus and IIci are in the original boxes
I’m thinking that if I have a 8600 & 9600 then I could dispense with
the 8500, 9500 and maybe 7300
Having the Beige G3 tower, then I could dispense with the desktop.
Probably no good reason to have a 6360 if I have a 6500 though there
isn’t a real speed difference if it’s running a G3 card

Suggestions?

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Chance Reecher]

I've never used integrated graphics on any of my hackintoshes, mainly because I 
play some games and run a multiple monitor setup, but when I did use a Mac Mini 
with GMA 950 it wasn't that bad.

As far as system brands go, most of my hacks are custom built boxes, it's just 
easier in my opinion to build a machine where you buy components knowing 
they'll work, rather than trying in vain to get your name-brand system 
completely working.

Just my .02,
Chance

On Mar 22, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Jonas Ulrich  wrote:

> I use GMA900 graphics on four different Hackintosh machines and it
> works great with full ability to change resolutions, as well QE & CI.
> 
> From my experience, HP is terrible. There have been a couple machines
> that are descent, but I go with Dell.
> 
> -Jonas
> 
> 

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Jonas Ulrich]

I use GMA900 graphics on four different Hackintosh machines and it
works great with full ability to change resolutions, as well QE & CI.

>From my experience, HP is terrible. There have been a couple machines
that are descent, but I go with Dell.

-Jonas

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Re: MDD G4: How to install OS 9.2.2

[admin]

Thanks, Dan.  Anything similar for Quicksilver 2002?

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[peterhaas]

>> Only one Mac uses Intel graphics
>
> A few more than one.
>
> I'm counting at least 12 models with three different families of Intel
> graphics.
>
> Without these many [ a ] hackintosh would be SOL.

And, the "Macks" would be SOL, too.

Although all standard distributions have GMA950 and GMAX3100 support (but
NOT GMA3100 support), these are still in 10.6.6.

I am presently working on a Hackintosh which uses the remnants of the
original Intel Mac support: a 915GAG, which Apple released to its
developers as 10.4.8.

And a 915GAG WILL STILL run MacOS X, too, and possibly even 10.6 (using
the Voodoo 10.6 kernel), but it certainly will run 10.4.8 or beyond
without a Voodoo kernel.



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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Kris Tilford]

On Mar 22, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:


Only one Mac uses Intel graphics



A few more than one.

I'm counting at least 12 models with three different families of Intel  
graphics.


Without these many hackintosh would be SOL.


Intel GMA 800: developer Mac Pro

Intel GMA 950: MacBook 2006+2 updates, iMac mid-2006/late-2006, Mini  
late-2006/mid-2007


Intel x3100  : MacBook Air, Late 2007 MacBook+2 updates.


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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[peterhaas]

>>  I have to ask though with the
>> X86 Mac what on earth was Apple thinking with Intel integrated
>> graphics.   Intel integrated GPUs were considered a joke on the Wintel
>> side long before Apple made the switch so why got with a graphics
>> platform that many consider to be an oxymoron especially given who
>> Apples clients tend to be.
>
> Only one Mac uses Intel graphics and in that one it's the secondary
> graphics card...
>
> Mac Mini: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM
> shared with main memory4"
> iMac: "ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 memory,
> ATI Radeon HD 5670 graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR3 memory or ATI
> Radeon HD 5750 graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory" depending on
> the model
> Mac Pro: "ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB of GDDR5 memory or ATI Radeon HD
> 5870 with 1GB of GDDR5 memory" depending on the BTO options.
> MacBook: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM
> shared with main memory"
> Macbook Air: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3
> SDRAM shared with main memory"

Perhaps true, but a great many so-calledHacks, as distinct from so-called
"Macks", find the GMA950 to be perfectly satisfactory PROVIDED the proper
support is provided in the DSDT.

Now, if an inexperienced hacker should try and use the on-mobo GMA950,
while attempting to provide all resolutions and CI/QE, using a variety of
hacked kexts, then he gets what he deserves: poor performance.

The NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT GFX0 device, for all resolutions and CI/QE is:


Device (PEGP)
{
Name (_ADR, 0x0002)
Device (GFX0)
{
Name (_ADR, Zero)
Method (_DSM, 4, NotSerialized)
{
Store (Package (0x06)
{
"device_type",
Buffer (0x08)
{
"display"
},

"model",
Buffer (0x07)
{
"GMA950"
},

"built-in",
Buffer (One)
{
0x01
}
}, Local0)
DTGP (Arg0, Arg1, Arg2, Arg3, RefOf (Local0))
Return (Local0)
}
}
}


Read it and weep!




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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 22, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:

>  I have to ask though with the
> X86 Mac what on earth was Apple thinking with Intel integrated
> graphics.   Intel integrated GPUs were considered a joke on the Wintel
> side long before Apple made the switch so why got with a graphics
> platform that many consider to be an oxymoron especially given who
> Apples clients tend to be.

Only one Mac uses Intel graphics and in that one it's the secondary graphics 
card...

Mac Mini: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM 
shared with main memory4"
iMac: "ATI Radeon HD 4670 graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR3 memory, ATI 
Radeon HD 5670 graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR3 memory or ATI Radeon HD 
5750 graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory" depending on the model
Mac Pro: "ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB of GDDR5 memory or ATI Radeon HD 5870 
with 1GB of GDDR5 memory" depending on the BTO options.
MacBook: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM 
shared with main memory"
Macbook Air: "NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM 
shared with main memory"

MacBook Pro: "AMD Radeon HD 6490M graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR5 memory 
on 2.0GHz configuration; or AMD Radeon HD 6750M graphics processor with 1GB of 
GDDR5 memory on 2.2GHz configuration AND Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of 
DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory" (so you can switch between them for better 
performance or better power savings.)

Finally, I can speak from a position of some experience on hardware issues, as 
we support hundreds of systems, both Mac and PC. If you buy a quality system to 
begin with, your hardware issues pretty much vanish.  If you buy consumer-grade 
crap, you get consumer-grade crap.

Go for the 'business' grade systems from reputable vendors (HP is our current 
favorite, Dell is a very distant second) and you'll have decent reliability.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Mar 22, 2:52 pm, Jonas Ulrich  wrote:
> I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality rip)
> using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on a 2.8GHZ
> P4 Hackintosh in one day.

Jonas, when you say "rip" do you mean encode? My G4s rip (copy the
DVD) in under 30 minutes. Ripping isn't their issue. It's encoding to
burn, or to view on iPad/TiVo.

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Mar 22, 10:42 am, "ah...clem"  wrote:
> there you go AGAIN, confusing software performance with CPU
> performance.  the apps you refer to were written for the Win/Tel
> architecture, and ported to the PPC by lazy and/or incompetent boobs
> who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in
> such a way as to fully exploit the Altivec processor.

? No, I was just looking at it from the user perspective. At some
level, the Mac is a black box performing a function. Now, if you said
you had an alternative video encoder that can change formats for me,
paid or free, to go from any format to either one compatible with my
iTunes/iPad or TiVo, that would have been interesting. A lecture on
AltiVec, not so much.

>  a 1 gig intel
> processor does a billion floating-point operations per second, while a
> 1 gig PPC does one billion 64-bit vector operations per second.  it is
> theoretically 64 times faster than an intel CPU with the same clock
> speed, but only if you have programmers smart enough and industrious
> enough to exploit its full power.  

64 times? Well, actually, I am unfamiliar enough with Intel to not
speak to it. AltiVec is a 128bit SIMD, so 4 simultaneous 32 bit
operands, but this is a tangent. I guess going from 2 x 1.25GHz to 4 x
2.8GHz gave me the 10X improvement, but for the wrong reason? I'm ok
with that.

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Daniel Stewart]

Very true.  That comment was intended to only be half serious with a
little humour. That certainly works too.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
>
> On Mar 22, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Daniel Stewart wrote:
>
>> Actually you can roll your own apps for PPC.  That's what Linux for
>> PPC or if you want serious geek cred NetBSD PPC is for. lol
>
> Or Apple's developer tools
>
> --
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
> guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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>

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 22, 2011, at 11:46 AM, Daniel Stewart wrote:

> Actually you can roll your own apps for PPC.  That's what Linux for
> PPC or if you want serious geek cred NetBSD PPC is for. lol

Or Apple's developer tools

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Daniel Stewart]

Not surprising that you have had hardware issues with the Intel Macs.
 I have been doing service work on PCs for years and that is pretty
standard with intel based systems.I have to ask though with the
X86 Mac what on earth was Apple thinking with Intel integrated
graphics.   Intel integrated GPUs were considered a joke on the Wintel
side long before Apple made the switch so why got with a graphics
platform that many consider to be an oxymoron especially given who
Apples clients tend to be.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Jonas Ulrich  wrote:
> I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality rip)
> using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on a 2.8GHZ
> P4 Hackintosh in one day.
>
> I will say that I have seen A LOT more hardware problems with the newer
> Macs, as oposed to the rock solid G4 towers.
>
> -Jonas
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Jonas Ulrich]

I remember it taking about four days to rip a DVD (REALLY high quality rip)
using HandBrake on a Dual 1GHZ MDD. I then ripped the same DVD on a 2.8GHZ
P4 Hackintosh in one day.

I will say that I have seen A LOT more hardware problems with the newer
Macs, as oposed to the rock solid G4 towers.

-Jonas

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Daniel Stewart]

Actually you can roll your own apps for PPC.  That's what Linux for
PPC or if you want serious geek cred NetBSD PPC is for. lol

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Tina K.  wrote:
> On 2011/03/22 08:42, ah...clem so eloquently wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 22, 7:10 am, JoeTaxpayer  wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Tina - you hit the nail on the head here. I was running Dual 1.25GHz
>>> >  MDD G4 which I still love, 3 of them helping to keep my house warm.
>>> >  The only thing they are slow at is the video encode. You Tube, no
>>> >  issue. But the encode? 2-4 hours per hour of video depending on the
>>> >  format change.
>>> >  I bought the same Mac Pro you have, and it flies, less than 1/10th the
>>> >  time to do the same encodes. Truth is, I am not a power user, but as
>>> >  the G4s were nearing 8 years old, it was my family that pretty much
>>> >  told me I need to spend some money on myself. And yes, it's cool to
>>> >  take a video off a camera and see it on the tivo a few minutes later.
>>> >
>>> >  On Mar 22, 12:41 am, "Tina K."  wrote:

 >  >  And if you don't believe this, try running Handbrake on a VIDEO_TS
 >  >  folder. It should be done in a day or three, whereas a Macbook Pro
 > will
 >  >  probably finish in about half the time, maybe less.
 >  >  I have a sentimental attachment to my PPC Macs, and was sorry to
 > see
 >  >  Apple switch to Intel (AMD anyone?),
 >  >  Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM
 > 10.6.6
>>
>> there you go AGAIN, confusing software performance with CPU
>> performance.  the apps you refer to were written for the Win/Tel
>> architecture, and ported to the PPC by lazy and/or incompetent boobs
>> who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in
>> such a way as to fully exploit the Altivec processor.  a 1 gig intel
>> processor does a billion floating-point operations per second, while a
>> 1 gig PPC does one billion 64-bit vector operations per second.  it is
>> theoretically 64 times faster than an intel CPU with the same clock
>> speed, but only if you have programmers smart enough and industrious
>> enough to exploit it's full power.  why do you think the DOD still
>> restricts the sale of G4s and G5s overseas, but you can give north
>> korea all the intel machines they want.
>
> Theory is all well and good, but it won't trans-code my videos or do
> anything else. Unless you are able to roll your own apps that do use the
> PPCs abilities efficiently, reality is that a MacPro is faster than a Power
> Mac.
>
> Tina
>
> --
>
> iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11
>
> PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.4.11
>
> Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6
>
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>

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What to lose

[Wayne Stewart]

I have a lot of Apple IIs, IIIs and Macs and I really need to
downsize. Some input into what to get rid of would help. Here’s the
Macs I have one or more of

Macs: 128k, 512k, 512ke, Plus, SE, SE/30, Classic, Color Classic,
Mac II, IIfx, LC, IIci, Quadras 700, 800, 840AV, 900,
PM6100, 6150, 8100, 6360, 6500, 7300, 8500, 9150, 9500, 8600, 9600
Beige G3 DT, MT & Server, AIO, B&W G3, Tray loading iMac, Slot loading
iMac
G4 Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Ethernet, Cube, DA, Quicksilver, MDD
Mac Portable
Powerbooks: 100,140,145,145B, 160,170,180,190, 520C, 5300,Wallstreet,
MacBook Pro

The Apple IIs and IIIs I’m unwilling to lose though there are a lot of
them. I’m thinking to get it down to one of each model except I’d like
to keep the second G3 AIO, Mac Portables and the extra MDDs. Extra
Cubes don’t count as they’re serving as book ends and all the
Powerbooks are in my closet.
The SE, Classic, Mac Plus and IIci are in the original boxes
I’m thinking that if I have a 8600 & 9600 then I could dispense with
the 8500, 9500 and maybe 7300
Having the Beige G3 tower, then I could dispense with the desktop.
Probably no good reason to have a 6360 if I have a 6500 though there
isn’t a real speed difference if it’s running a G3 card

Suggestions?

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Tina K.]

On 2011/03/22 08:42, ah...clem so eloquently wrote:


On Mar 22, 7:10 am, JoeTaxpayer  wrote:

>  Tina - you hit the nail on the head here. I was running Dual 1.25GHz
>  MDD G4 which I still love, 3 of them helping to keep my house warm.
>  The only thing they are slow at is the video encode. You Tube, no
>  issue. But the encode? 2-4 hours per hour of video depending on the
>  format change.
>  I bought the same Mac Pro you have, and it flies, less than 1/10th the
>  time to do the same encodes. Truth is, I am not a power user, but as
>  the G4s were nearing 8 years old, it was my family that pretty much
>  told me I need to spend some money on myself. And yes, it's cool to
>  take a video off a camera and see it on the tivo a few minutes later.
>
>  On Mar 22, 12:41 am, "Tina K."  wrote:

>  >  And if you don't believe this, try running Handbrake on a VIDEO_TS
>  >  folder. It should be done in a day or three, whereas a Macbook Pro will
>  >  probably finish in about half the time, maybe less.
>  >  I have a sentimental attachment to my PPC Macs, and was sorry to see
>  >  Apple switch to Intel (AMD anyone?),
>  >  Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6

there you go AGAIN, confusing software performance with CPU
performance.  the apps you refer to were written for the Win/Tel
architecture, and ported to the PPC by lazy and/or incompetent boobs
who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in
such a way as to fully exploit the Altivec processor.  a 1 gig intel
processor does a billion floating-point operations per second, while a
1 gig PPC does one billion 64-bit vector operations per second.  it is
theoretically 64 times faster than an intel CPU with the same clock
speed, but only if you have programmers smart enough and industrious
enough to exploit it's full power.  why do you think the DOD still
restricts the sale of G4s and G5s overseas, but you can give north
korea all the intel machines they want.


Theory is all well and good, but it won't trans-code my videos or do 
anything else. Unless you are able to roll your own apps that do use the 
PPCs abilities efficiently, reality is that a MacPro is faster than a 
Power Mac.


Tina

--

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11

PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.4.11

Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[daniel . stewart743]

Well I am glad others have had a better experience.  My point was Simply that 
on any computer platform good benchmarks does not always mean an improvement of 
real world performance.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "James E. Therrault" 
Sender: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:00:39 
To: 
Reply-To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?


On Mar 22, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:
> 
>> But truth be told they have
>> found they are much more impressed with the old G4s because unlike the
>> new faster Intel macs the G4s are actually consistently reliable.
>> Their Intel Macs are consistently crashing or malfunctioning in some
>> other way. 
> 
> This is directly contrary to my experience managing a college with about 
> 100-120 Macs in use, all but a handful of which are Intel macs of one form or 
> another; none 'consistently crash'.
> 
> Of course there are occasional issues, but most of those have been fixed by 
> either starting in safe mode (to clear the caches) using Applejack (once per 
> machine so far, not as a routine maintenance) or most often, just getting 
> enough RAM in the systems. (people trying to run a bunch of Mac apps plus 
> Windows in a VM need more than 2GB ram, or the system slows to a crawl on a 
> regular basis.)


It's been about two months since I switched from my trusty ol' Gigabit G4 to a 
late '09 Mac Mini.  The previous owner had wiped the HD and reinstalled the 
original system s/w which was an early version of Snow Leopard and then 
upgraded it to the current 10.6.6.

For about the first month, I did experience strange things like application 
crashes, sleep issues etc but now it seems as if the machine "has learned" my 
habits.  It is now rock steady, runs 24/7 (much of it in sleep mode) without 
any problems.

Safari which always gave me fits on the G4 is now amazing.  Other apps as well 
and I am running Rosetta (sp?) for an older game, Mah Jong and it works just 
fine.

Moving across a ten year technology "bridge" has been quite an impressive 
journey!

Wow!

JT



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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[James E. Therrault]

On Mar 22, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:
> 
>> But truth be told they have
>> found they are much more impressed with the old G4s because unlike the
>> new faster Intel macs the G4s are actually consistently reliable.
>> Their Intel Macs are consistently crashing or malfunctioning in some
>> other way. 
> 
> This is directly contrary to my experience managing a college with about 
> 100-120 Macs in use, all but a handful of which are Intel macs of one form or 
> another; none 'consistently crash'.
> 
> Of course there are occasional issues, but most of those have been fixed by 
> either starting in safe mode (to clear the caches) using Applejack (once per 
> machine so far, not as a routine maintenance) or most often, just getting 
> enough RAM in the systems. (people trying to run a bunch of Mac apps plus 
> Windows in a VM need more than 2GB ram, or the system slows to a crawl on a 
> regular basis.)


It's been about two months since I switched from my trusty ol' Gigabit G4 to a 
late '09 Mac Mini.  The previous owner had wiped the HD and reinstalled the 
original system s/w which was an early version of Snow Leopard and then 
upgraded it to the current 10.6.6.

For about the first month, I did experience strange things like application 
crashes, sleep issues etc but now it seems as if the machine "has learned" my 
habits.  It is now rock steady, runs 24/7 (much of it in sleep mode) without 
any problems.

Safari which always gave me fits on the G4 is now amazing.  Other apps as well 
and I am running Rosetta (sp?) for an older game, Mah Jong and it works just 
fine.

Moving across a ten year technology "bridge" has been quite an impressive 
journey!

Wow!

JT



-- 
You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 22, 2011, at 7:42 AM, ah...clem wrote:

> there you go AGAIN, confusing software performance with CPU
> performance.  the apps you refer to were written for the Win/Tel
> architecture, and ported to the PPC by lazy and/or incompetent boobs
> who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in
> such a way as to fully exploit the Altivec processor. 

Oh puleeeze. You're claiming a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 on a 333 mHz bus can compare to 
a Mac Pro (which at a MINIMUM has 2 2.66Ghz dual core Xeons with 667 Mhz memory 
bus) with a few COMPILER TWEAKS??? (which tweaks, BTW, Apple's dev tools pretty 
much apply automatically when you select PPC as a compile target)

Compare the performance of iDVD encoding on the two platforms, unless, of 
course, you consider Apple's programmers to be "lazy and/or incompetent boobs 
who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in such a way 
as to fully exploit the Altivec processor."

Considering they wrote iDVD for the PPC IN THE FIRST PLACE!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[John Martz]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Bruce Johnson
 wrote:
>
> On Mar 21, 2011, at 10:08 PM, Richard Gerome wrote:
>
>>
>>   I would like to see "AMD" because I'm not crazy about my 2008 Macbook with 
>> 2G processor and 2G memory running Snow Leopard... My old Titanium Powerbook 
>> A1025 runs better running Tiger!!!
>
> Then something is seriously wrong with your MacBook, and an AMD processor 
> will not fix anything.
>

Amen to that!

-irrational john

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[ah...clem]

On Mar 22, 7:10 am, JoeTaxpayer  wrote:
> Tina - you hit the nail on the head here. I was running Dual 1.25GHz
> MDD G4 which I still love, 3 of them helping to keep my house warm.
> The only thing they are slow at is the video encode. You Tube, no
> issue. But the encode? 2-4 hours per hour of video depending on the
> format change.
> I bought the same Mac Pro you have, and it flies, less than 1/10th the
> time to do the same encodes. Truth is, I am not a power user, but as
> the G4s were nearing 8 years old, it was my family that pretty much
> told me I need to spend some money on myself. And yes, it's cool to
> take a video off a camera and see it on the tivo a few minutes later.
>
> On Mar 22, 12:41 am, "Tina K."  wrote:
> > And if you don't believe this, try running Handbrake on a VIDEO_TS
> > folder. It should be done in a day or three, whereas a Macbook Pro will
> > probably finish in about half the time, maybe less.
> > I have a sentimental attachment to my PPC Macs, and was sorry to see
> > Apple switch to Intel (AMD anyone?),
> > Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6

there you go AGAIN, confusing software performance with CPU
performance.  the apps you refer to were written for the Win/Tel
architecture, and ported to the PPC by lazy and/or incompetent boobs
who wouldn't or couldn't rewrite the program from the ground up in
such a way as to fully exploit the Altivec processor.  a 1 gig intel
processor does a billion floating-point operations per second, while a
1 gig PPC does one billion 64-bit vector operations per second.  it is
theoretically 64 times faster than an intel CPU with the same clock
speed, but only if you have programmers smart enough and industrious
enough to exploit it's full power.  why do you think the DOD still
restricts the sale of G4s and G5s overseas, but you can give north
korea all the intel machines they want.

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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 21, 2011, at 10:32 PM, Daniel Stewart wrote:

> But truth be told they have
> found they are much more impressed with the old G4s because unlike the
> new faster Intel macs the G4s are actually consistently reliable.
> Their Intel Macs are consistently crashing or malfunctioning in some
> other way. 

This is directly contrary to my experience managing a college with about 
100-120 Macs in use, all but a handful of which are Intel macs of one form or 
another; none 'consistently crash'.

Of course there are occasional issues, but most of those have been fixed by 
either starting in safe mode (to clear the caches) using Applejack (once per 
machine so far, not as a routine maintenance) or most often, just getting 
enough RAM in the systems. (people trying to run a bunch of Mac apps plus 
Windows in a VM need more than 2GB ram, or the system slows to a crawl on a 
regular basis.)

Not saying they don't have problems, just no way is that experience comparable 
to mine with Intel Macs.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: bcc copy

[Barney Guzzo]

Thanks.

On Mar 22, 2011 2:26 AM, "Judith Berkowitz"  wrote:
> On Mar 21, 11:49 am, Barney Guzzo  wrote:
>> PM G4 933 running Apple Mail 2.1.3.  If I BCC someone in Mail and then
>> later go to review the mail I sent in my "Sent" box, I do not see the
>> people I BCC'd in the original.  Is there any way for me to see who I
>> BCC'd?
>
> Do one of the following:
> 1.) Go to your Sent Mail
> -->Open the note in question
> -->Hit View in the dropdown menu
> -->Hit Message
> -->Hit either Long Headers or Raw Source
> The Bcc addresses will be there listed in the Bcc Field
>
> 2.) Go to your Sent Mail
> -->Open the note in question
> -->Hit Reply All
> The Bcc addresses will be there in the Bcc Field
>
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Macs.
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Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?

[JoeTaxpayer]

Tina - you hit the nail on the head here. I was running Dual 1.25GHz
MDD G4 which I still love, 3 of them helping to keep my house warm.
The only thing they are slow at is the video encode. You Tube, no
issue. But the encode? 2-4 hours per hour of video depending on the
format change.
I bought the same Mac Pro you have, and it flies, less than 1/10th the
time to do the same encodes. Truth is, I am not a power user, but as
the G4s were nearing 8 years old, it was my family that pretty much
told me I need to spend some money on myself. And yes, it's cool to
take a video off a camera and see it on the tivo a few minutes later.

On Mar 22, 12:41 am, "Tina K."  wrote:
> And if you don't believe this, try running Handbrake on a VIDEO_TS
> folder. It should be done in a day or three, whereas a Macbook Pro will
> probably finish in about half the time, maybe less.

> I have a sentimental attachment to my PPC Macs, and was sorry to see
> Apple switch to Intel (AMD anyone?),
> Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6

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Re: importing iphoto files.

[jason]

Thanks a bunch.  I'll poke around over there.

On Mar 19, 9:49 pm, Kris Tilford  wrote:
> On Mar 19, 2011, at 8:47 PM, jason wrote:
>
> > I had the pismo in target disk mode and it transferred the
> > 6.5 gb worth of pictures, however, some pictures were psychedelic
> > colors, and some were missing.  And I got the same popup box (as noted
> > in the original post above) that told me that the files could not be
> > imported--even though they were right there in front of me.
>
> I don't think you're going about this the right way. It appears you're  
> trying to "Import" the old iPhoto library, and I believe the problem  
> here is that you've skipped too many versions of iPhoto in trying to  
> go from iPhoto 3 to iPhoto 6 directly without the intervening versions  
> 5 & 6. I could be wrong, but it seems likely because iPhoto changed a  
> lot between these versions.
>
> As I have said before, I believe the "easist" way to do what you're  
> trying to do is manually navigate to the "originals" folder on the  
> Pismo while the Pismo is mounted in Target Disk mode, and then drag &  
> drop the entire "originals" folder into the open iPhoto 6 application  
> window so that they will be automatically imported. The problem with  
> this method is that you will lose all of the editing changes you've  
> made to any photos, but the advantage is that it should work  
> seamlessly, giving you 100% of the original photos from the Pismo.
>
> If you have done extensive editing to the Pismo photos it would be a  
> better idea to figure out the "correct" way to import the library WITH  
> editing changes intact. I don't believe G3-5 list is the optimal place  
> to be asking this question, you'd likely be better served on the Apple  
> Discussions>iLife>iPhoto section here:
>
> 

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