Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Jim Jagielski]

+1

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:04 PM, Antoine Toulme  wrote:
> 
> I’m not quite sure what to do. If I don’t hear by tomorrow I’ll close this 
> vote as passing.
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Greg Stein  wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:34 AM Justin Mclean 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
 I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
 IPMC thinks we should not release.”
>>> 
>>> Has anyone voted -1? Nope. And even if they did a -1 vote is not a veto.
>>> 
>> 
>> Great. Semantics. "But I didn't really say veto."
>> 
>> Your "not allowed" is read as a veto by any reasonably-minded person. If
>> you think it should NOT be read as -1, then put a +1 into your message.
>> That did not happen. So it is NOT read as +1 for the podling. I added my +1
>> as the third. Mostly to get it over with, and (honestly:) for some spite
>> about the whole process.
>> 
>> Look. Clearly this discussion is about rulesmithing to keep the status quo.
>> Carry on.
>> 
>> Maybe I should say you're being an ass about the whole process. :-)
>> 
>> -g
>> 
>> ps. per your rules [1], I put a smiley on that sentence, so it doesn't mean
>> anything.
>> [1]
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CA2A7580A-20DA-4894-9590-14D563C3D0E0%40me.com%3E
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Jim Jagielski]

This speech policing is starting to get quite on my nerves. Especially when it 
ignores the intent behind such things... 99% of the time the smiley is there to 
say "Yeah, I know that sounds harsh, but it's a little joke". It is an attempt 
to replicate in text what is natural in "real life"... when someone says 
something and then, to defuse the situation a little, smiles.

This is how people talk. This is how people communicate.

Let's all recall that one of the big tenets in 1984 is that if you can control 
how people talk, you can control how they think. Can we PLEASE not go there.

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 6:15 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:29 PM Craig Russell  wrote:
>> ...
> 
>> No. Smiley face doesn't count.
>> 
> 
> Apparently you missed the point when Justin did that to me. Hmm?
> 
> Of course it doesn't count. Why don't you go police th VP Incubator, okay?
> 
> -g


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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[larry mccay]

Antoine -

Thank you for your work getting the initial release done and patience here.
As Dave said, we have our 3 +1's.

thanks,

--larry


On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 6:15 PM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:29 PM Craig Russell 
> wrote:
> >...
>
> > No. Smiley face doesn't count.
> >
>
> Apparently you missed the point when Justin did that to me. Hmm?
>
> Of course it doesn't count. Why don't you go police th VP Incubator, okay?
>
> -g
>

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 4:29 PM Craig Russell  wrote:
>...

> No. Smiley face doesn't count.
>

Apparently you missed the point when Justin did that to me. Hmm?

Of course it doesn't count. Why don't you go police th VP Incubator, okay?

-g

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Craig Russell]

Hi Greg,

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 1:42 AM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I should say you're being an ass about the whole process. :-)

No. Smiley face doesn't count.

Stop.

Craig
> 
> -g

Craig L Russell
c...@apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Dave Fisher]

You have your 3 +1 Votes!

We can discuss messaging on dev@tuweni

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 2:04 PM, Antoine Toulme  wrote:
> 
> I’m not quite sure what to do. If I don’t hear by tomorrow I’ll close this 
> vote as passing.
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Greg Stein  wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:34 AM Justin Mclean 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
 I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
 IPMC thinks we should not release.”
>>> 
>>> Has anyone voted -1? Nope. And even if they did a -1 vote is not a veto.
>>> 
>> 
>> Great. Semantics. "But I didn't really say veto."
>> 
>> Your "not allowed" is read as a veto by any reasonably-minded person. If
>> you think it should NOT be read as -1, then put a +1 into your message.
>> That did not happen. So it is NOT read as +1 for the podling. I added my +1
>> as the third. Mostly to get it over with, and (honestly:) for some spite
>> about the whole process.
>> 
>> Look. Clearly this discussion is about rulesmithing to keep the status quo.
>> Carry on.
>> 
>> Maybe I should say you're being an ass about the whole process. :-)
>> 
>> -g
>> 
>> ps. per your rules [1], I put a smiley on that sentence, so it doesn't mean
>> anything.
>> [1]
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CA2A7580A-20DA-4894-9590-14D563C3D0E0%40me.com%3E
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Antoine Toulme]

I’m not quite sure what to do. If I don’t hear by tomorrow I’ll close this vote 
as passing.

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:42 AM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:34 AM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
>>> IPMC thinks we should not release.”
>> 
>> Has anyone voted -1? Nope. And even if they did a -1 vote is not a veto.
>> 
> 
> Great. Semantics. "But I didn't really say veto."
> 
> Your "not allowed" is read as a veto by any reasonably-minded person. If
> you think it should NOT be read as -1, then put a +1 into your message.
> That did not happen. So it is NOT read as +1 for the podling. I added my +1
> as the third. Mostly to get it over with, and (honestly:) for some spite
> about the whole process.
> 
> Look. Clearly this discussion is about rulesmithing to keep the status quo.
> Carry on.
> 
> Maybe I should say you're being an ass about the whole process. :-)
> 
> -g
> 
> ps. per your rules [1], I put a smiley on that sentence, so it doesn't mean
> anything.
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CA2A7580A-20DA-4894-9590-14D563C3D0E0%40me.com%3E


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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 12:34 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
> > IPMC thinks we should not release.”
>
> Has anyone voted -1? Nope. And even if they did a -1 vote is not a veto.
>

Great. Semantics. "But I didn't really say veto."

Your "not allowed" is read as a veto by any reasonably-minded person. If
you think it should NOT be read as -1, then put a +1 into your message.
That did not happen. So it is NOT read as +1 for the podling. I added my +1
as the third. Mostly to get it over with, and (honestly:) for some spite
about the whole process.

Look. Clearly this discussion is about rulesmithing to keep the status quo.
Carry on.

Maybe I should say you're being an ass about the whole process. :-)

-g

ps. per your rules [1], I put a smiley on that sentence, so it doesn't mean
anything.
[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201906.mbox/%3CA2A7580A-20DA-4894-9590-14D563C3D0E0%40me.com%3E

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
> IPMC thinks we should not release.”

Has anyone voted -1? Nope. And even if they did a -1 vote is not a veto.

> How about "make the release, and fix that next time” ?

The podlings previous release put up for IPMC vote had the same issue.

> Look at the framing, and at how any normal reader is going to see it. It is
> (ahem) insanity to believe that it doesn't look like harshing on Tuweni for
> a file in their release. And then escalating with "oh geez. we need Infra
> to weigh in on this problem" (without really doing so, until yesterday,
> thus stalling the process)

We’ve needed infra to make their position clear on this for a while, we just 
didn’t have a release that we could show them, and asking hypothetical 
questions in the past has been answered with “we don’t answer those”. We now 
have an answer which makes it much clearer. That is a big improvement. Re 
“stalling” I asked the podling to check with infra, when they didn’t, I asked 
for them that spending up the process not stalled it.

> As long as the IPMC discusses podling releases, they are going to be
> *interfering*.

Currently only IPMC votes are binding on releases, so by design the incubator 
has to “interfere".

> And that is what I'm seeing with Tuweni, for a minor issue
> which has no material effect on people trying their product. Just ungate
> the release, and fix it next time.

They were asked to fix it last time, and we were told it was fixed, except it 
wasn’t. People make mistakes, hopefully it will be fixed in the next release. 
The release as it is, may have a material effect on people due to its licensing.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

+1 (binding)

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 5:03 AM Antoine Toulme  wrote:

> Hi all,
> The Tuweni community voted on and has approved a proposal to release
> Tuweni 0.8.0. Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation
> Policy and we would now like to request the permission of the Incubator
> PMC to publish the
> tarball on the Tuweni Download page.
> Note we have collected 4 +1 votes from IPMC members and have therefore the
> necessary minimum votes.
>
> Please vote by 12 PM Paris time Thursday, 6/27.
>
> Thanks
> Antoine
>
> Proposal:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7ad88c9725d954f0c58968b3ba53da007b8b48079fe24ee908e03a04@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7ad88c9725d954f0c58968b3ba53da007b8b48079fe24ee908e03a04@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> Vote result:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2d4ac9cc208218e87d916a9bfc01faec53b30a5e714fe1d632f5fe8c@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2d4ac9cc208218e87d916a9bfc01faec53b30a5e714fe1d632f5fe8c@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
> >
>
> Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:35 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:
>...

> This sort of language is not helpful. Nor do I think it is accurate. Can
> you please take more care with your words.
>

I feel it is accurate. And it is not directed at anybody. Only at this
process. It is descriptive, and my carefully chosen word that I feel
describes what is happening. You disagree. That will occur in any free
discussion. Only groupthink discussion sees no disagreement.

> Just let Tuweni make a release, already. Stuff like this will get fixed
> eventually.
>
> No-one is stopping them from making a release.


Sure looks like it from here.

I see a lot of "oh no. a bad file". What is the takeaway from that? "The
IPMC thinks we should not release."

Let me provide an exact quote: "this is currently not allowed."
Read that line again. Not. Allowed.

How about "make the release, and fix that next time" ?

Look at the framing, and at how any normal reader is going to see it. It is
(ahem) insanity to believe that it doesn't look like harshing on Tuweni for
a file in their release. And then escalating with "oh geez. we need Infra
to weigh in on this problem" (without really doing so, until yesterday,
thus stalling the process)

As long as the IPMC discusses podling releases, they are going to be
*interfering*. And that is what I'm seeing with Tuweni, for a minor issue
which has no material effect on people trying their product. Just ungate
the release, and fix it next time.

Do not attempt to rewrite history. "this is currently not allowed" was the
very first response. That damned well looks like the IPMC saying "no, you
cannot release that" ... **especially** when that comment comes from the VP
Incubator. Fact.

-g

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Insanity.

This sort of language is not helpful. Nor do I think it is accurate. Can you 
please take more care with your words.

> Just let Tuweni make a release, already. Stuff like this will get fixed 
> eventually.

No-one is stopping them from making a release.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

Insanity.

Just let Tuweni make a release, already. Stuff like this will get fixed
eventually.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:46 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > It may not be clear to you, but it was discussed in the earlier vote
> thread. See
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2b5fed22493e954937405cfd2553d06c00e5bee3b76be06b18b74862@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
> for my noticing the jar still being present.
>
> Noting its present and clearly indicating what the podlings future
> responsibility is in regards to this are perhaps seperate things. This is
> not a minor issue. I hope the podling realises this is the first time that
> a IPMC release with compiled code of this magnitude has been approved. A
> recent thread on legal would suggest that this should not be allowed due to
> licensing issues (even if we allow jars in source releases), and the thread
> on infra makes this the IPMC responsibility. I’ll leave it up the the PPMC
> and the mentors to consider the implications of that. In all previous IPMC
> votes that would of resulted in one or more -1 votes being cast and the
> podling asked to make another release candidate, especially considering
> that this was a issue that has occurred in a previous release candidate.
> Apache makes open source software, having a release with compiled code it
> it is not open source software and is against one of the core values of
> what we do.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> It may not be clear to you, but it was discussed in the earlier vote thread. 
> See 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2b5fed22493e954937405cfd2553d06c00e5bee3b76be06b18b74862@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
>  for my noticing the jar still being present.

Noting its present and clearly indicating what the podlings future 
responsibility is in regards to this are perhaps seperate things. This is not a 
minor issue. I hope the podling realises this is the first time that a IPMC 
release with compiled code of this magnitude has been approved. A recent thread 
on legal would suggest that this should not be allowed due to licensing issues 
(even if we allow jars in source releases), and the thread on infra makes this 
the IPMC responsibility. I’ll leave it up the the PPMC and the mentors to 
consider the implications of that. In all previous IPMC votes that would of 
resulted in one or more -1 votes being cast and the podling asked to make 
another release candidate, especially considering that this was a issue that 
has occurred in a previous release candidate. Apache makes open source 
software, having a release with compiled code it it is not open source software 
and is against one of the core values of what we do.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2019, at 6:17 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Going only by past experiences in the incubator, my understanding is that a
>> graduation blocking issue is not something that necessarily blocks a
>> podling release.
> 
> And I was not stating that, nor has anyone voted -1 on this release. I was 
> just pointing out that this doesn’t seem to have been made clear to this 
> podling.

It may not be clear to you, but it was discussed in the earlier vote thread. 
See 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2b5fed22493e954937405cfd2553d06c00e5bee3b76be06b18b74862@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
 for my noticing the jar still being present.

Regards,
Dave
> 
>> It would be something that should be noted and fixed in follow up releases
>> for sure.
> 
> This is not their first release or the first time this issue has occurred in 
> their releases.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[larry mccay]

It wasn't clear to me whether you were waiting for infra before issuing a
-1 - sorry to have read too much into that.

AFAIK - this is indeed still a first Apache release for Tuweni - not the
first attempt but I don't believe that 0.7.0 was successfully voted to
release.
The change of the release number does make that unclear though.

Thanks for the clarification on your intentions with that note, Justin.

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 9:17 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > Going only by past experiences in the incubator, my understanding is
> that a
> > graduation blocking issue is not something that necessarily blocks a
> > podling release.
>
> And I was not stating that, nor has anyone voted -1 on this release. I was
> just pointing out that this doesn’t seem to have been made clear to this
> podling.
>
> > It would be something that should be noted and fixed in follow up
> releases
> > for sure.
>
> This is not their first release or the first time this issue has occurred
> in their releases.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Going only by past experiences in the incubator, my understanding is that a
> graduation blocking issue is not something that necessarily blocks a
> podling release.

And I was not stating that, nor has anyone voted -1 on this release. I was just 
pointing out that this doesn’t seem to have been made clear to this podling.

> It would be something that should be noted and fixed in follow up releases
> for sure.

This is not their first release or the first time this issue has occurred in 
their releases.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[larry mccay]

Going only by past experiences in the incubator, my understanding is that a
graduation blocking issue is not something that necessarily blocks a
podling release.
It would be something that should be noted and fixed in follow up releases
for sure.
Perhaps the letter of the law change or the level of enforcement has
changed since then.

Now, whether those experiences were to the letter of the law or not, I
believe that (especially the first) release from a podling is intended to
make sure that the mechanics of creating an Apache release are understood.

I do think that the mechanics are in order here and would expect that this
should be able to move forward with a JIRA to fix in a follow up release.



On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 12:44 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I also find int a little odd that in the discussion on this release it was
> not clearly pointed out that having compiled code in the source release is
> a graduation blocking issue and that as a TLP this would not be allowed in
> a release, especially given that the exact same issue occurred in the
> previous release. Now it may be at some point policy will change and allow
> this, but currently it doesn’t.
>
> I’ve asked on users@infra if infra will allow this release, and in
> general releases like this. [1]
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1.
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a9d158ba394de3ac23204c4b7cd7e377271eb24035a38ee137a54786@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
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>

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I also find int a little odd that in the discussion on this release it was not 
clearly pointed out that having compiled code in the source release is a 
graduation blocking issue and that as a TLP this would not be allowed in a 
release, especially given that the exact same issue occurred in the previous 
release. Now it may be at some point policy will change and allow this, but 
currently it doesn’t.

I’ve asked on users@infra if infra will allow this release, and in general 
releases like this. [1]

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a9d158ba394de3ac23204c4b7cd7e377271eb24035a38ee137a54786@%3Cusers.infra.apache.org%3E
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Re: Infrastructure removing releases Was: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

HI,

> If you want to ask Infra a question, then ask on users@infra or
> private@infra.

Will do, thanks.

> And [1] is 13 years old.

And I said it was old, there are more recent emails along the same lines, but 
I'm not able to find them right now. Not surprisingly searching for things 
released to releases brings up many many emails.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Infrastructure removing releases Was: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Greg Stein]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:01 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > I apologize for missing that question in the May report.
>
> I've ask esthe question several times over serval months (in slightly
> different forms) and not got a clear answer.
>
> The most recent conversations have been on Slack. See for instance [2] or
> [3] (where is seems that sometimes infra are the police) or [4].
>
> I can’t find the email in question, but did recall and find this (although
> it's from a while ago) [1]
>

If you want to ask Infra a question, then ask on users@infra or
private@infra. Per [2], that is exactly the response "not for Slack". We
might see it on general@incubator ... but honestly: if you seriously want
our input, then ask where we will see it and respond. And if you don't get
a response, then escalate until you do.

And [1] is 13 years old. Not even sure how that enters into the
conversation, unless you want to take Roy's advice and move Incubator in
the direction it seems people want: relax release workflow. Get the IPMC
out of the process/voting.

Regards,
Greg Stein
InfraAdmin, ASF

Re: Infrastructure removing releases Was: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I apologize for missing that question in the May report.

I've ask esthe question several times over serval months (in slightly different 
forms) and not got a clear answer.

The most recent conversations have been on Slack. See for instance [2] or [3] 
(where is seems that sometimes infra are the police) or [4].

I can’t find the email in question, but did recall and find this (although it's 
from a while ago) [1]

> Infrastructure is not checking releases to validate their correctness.
> Infra has no desire to be the ASF Police force. (though I'm sure we'd
> have cool uniforms and badges….)

Something like the vegan police from Scott Pilgrim vs the World I would imagine 
:-)

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2f22c70119eafe2a5c6999534b9c0153581b1810d535f43ccafabe14@1166645553@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
2. https://the-asf.slack.com/archives/CBX4TSBQ8/p1556248064429300
3. https://the-asf.slack.com/archives/CBX4TSBQ8/p1549592730879300
4. https://the-asf.slack.com/archives/CBX4TSBQ8/p1552078486440300
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Infrastructure removing releases Was: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[David Nalley]

>
> Have you checked with infra that they will allow this? Previous they have 
> said they will remove any release with an issue like this. I’ve tried to get 
> clarity on this (see board report before last) but with no luck.
>

Justin,

I apologize for missing that question in the May report. Can you point
me to where we've said we'll remove releases?

Infrastructure is not checking releases to validate their correctness.
Infra has no desire to be the ASF Police force. (though I'm sure we'd
have cool uniforms and badges) There's no one in Infra who sits
around judging the 'correctness' of artifacts. Moreover, Infra reports
into the office of the President, and the President has no oversight
or management of projects, by design.

We do have some tools that do things like validate checksums against
artifacts, but that's primarily to ensure that corrupted artifacts, or
malicious artifacts aren't distributed. Projects will get automated
complaining emails about that situation if it happens.

In the event that any project discovers some egregious error and needs
to have something removed, that's possible, but a request would need
to be made by the project.

HTH,

--David

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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I’m also curious to know how that jar is licensed. This doesn’t help [1] and 
this [2] while claiming to be ALV2 includes category X LGPL license.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://github.com/gradle/gradle/tree/master/subprojects/wrapper
2. https://github.com/gradle/gradle/blob/master/LICENSE
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> We have been working on improving the situation. The gradle wrapper is no 
> longer checked in sources, and the README has been updated to make sure folks 
> can build from source and download the wrapper as needed.
> 
> Unfortunately I missed something and the jar found its way into the 
> distributions.

Have you checked with infra that they will allow this? Previous they have said 
they will remove any release with an issue like this. I’ve tried to get clarity 
on this (see board report before last) but with no luck. 

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Antoine Toulme]

We have been working on improving the situation. The gradle wrapper is no 
longer checked in sources, and the README has been updated to make sure folks 
can build from source and download the wrapper as needed.

Unfortunately I missed something and the jar found its way into the 
distributions.

There’s more discussion on this in our voting thread:
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7ad88c9725d954f0c58968b3ba53da007b8b48079fe24ee908e03a04@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
 


> On Jun 24, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I see that the gradle jar is still in the source release. This was discussed 
> last release [1] and as discussed previously [2] this is currently not 
> allowed. It was mentioned in the last release vote that the gradle jar was 
> removed, but it seems it hasn’t been?
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3663edfcf137f9359ed2f426e290a6eca5a16e5144c6d209782889ce@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> 2.  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-288
> 
> 
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> 

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding) carried over from dev@tuweni Vote.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:39 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding) - carried over from PPMC vote
> 
>> On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:03 AM, Antoine Toulme  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> The Tuweni community voted on and has approved a proposal to release
>> Tuweni 0.8.0. Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation
>> Policy and we would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC 
>> to publish the
>> tarball on the Tuweni Download page.
>> Note we have collected 4 +1 votes from IPMC members and have therefore the 
>> necessary minimum votes.
>> 
>> Please vote by 12 PM Paris time Thursday, 6/27.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Antoine
>> 
>> Proposal:
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7ad88c9725d954f0c58968b3ba53da007b8b48079fe24ee908e03a04@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Vote result:
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2d4ac9cc208218e87d916a9bfc01faec53b30a5e714fe1d632f5fe8c@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Sorry, it’s late, I made a mistake. I meant to say VP infra not VP incubator, 
as Apache Infrastructure are responsible for distribution policy [1] not us.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://www.apache.org/dev/release-distribution.html
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

JFYI - this is uncharted waters and VP incubator was previous said they will 
not allow distribution of incubator source releases with jars in them. They may 
of changed their minds and may allow this, but you might want to check with 
them first.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Jim Jagielski]

+1 (binding) - carried over from PPMC vote

> On Jun 24, 2019, at 6:03 AM, Antoine Toulme  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> The Tuweni community voted on and has approved a proposal to release
> Tuweni 0.8.0. Pursuant to the Releases section of the Incubation
> Policy and we would now like to request the permission of the Incubator PMC 
> to publish the
> tarball on the Tuweni Download page.
> Note we have collected 4 +1 votes from IPMC members and have therefore the 
> necessary minimum votes.
> 
> Please vote by 12 PM Paris time Thursday, 6/27.
> 
> Thanks
> Antoine
> 
> Proposal:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/7ad88c9725d954f0c58968b3ba53da007b8b48079fe24ee908e03a04@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
>  
> 
> 
> Vote result:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/2d4ac9cc208218e87d916a9bfc01faec53b30a5e714fe1d632f5fe8c@%3Cdev.tuweni.apache.org%3E
>  
> 
> 
> Releases section of the Incubation Policy:
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 0.8.0

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I see that the gradle jar is still in the source release. This was discussed 
last release [1] and as discussed previously [2] this is currently not allowed. 
It was mentioned in the last release vote that the gradle jar was removed, but 
it seems it hasn’t been?

Thanks,
Justin

1. 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/3663edfcf137f9359ed2f426e290a6eca5a16e5144c6d209782889ce@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
2.  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-288


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